1 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Dark still waters, Spanish moss, 2 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: live oak trees. When I think of a swamp, I 3 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: don't see something ugly, I see something beautiful. But there's 4 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: one swamp in America that's hidden a secret, and finally 5 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 1: that secret has been revealed. We will talk about Brian 6 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: Laundry today. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body 7 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: Backs back with me again today is my friend Jackie Howard, 8 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie, what's 9 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 1: come to light now regarding the death of Brian Laundry, Joe. 10 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: We now know that Brian Laundry committed suicide in the 11 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: swamps there close to his home. Chris and ROBERTA. Laundry 12 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: were informed that the cause of death was a gunshot 13 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: wound to the head. Now, we never knew specifically that 14 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: Brian Laundry had taken a gun from the home. That 15 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,199 Speaker 1: was not released until just a few days ago. Chris 16 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: and Roberto Laundry had surrendered five or six guns that 17 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: they stored in their home to the FBI when Brian 18 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: went missing. That was not released to the public, nor 19 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: was the fact that a gun was missing. According to 20 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: their attorney, they did not want to cause a panic 21 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: in the community. It was released to the public that 22 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: a skull was found, a partial skull, I should be specific. 23 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: But at that point we did not know how Brian died. Again, 24 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: we do now know that he died of a gunshot 25 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: wound to the head. Explain this all to me, Joe, 26 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: because I have so many questions. Is the reason we 27 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: found a partial skull because of the injury and the 28 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: gunshot itself, or was this due to animals? You know, Jackie, 29 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: A lot of folks might not be aware of this, 30 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: but you know, suicide it outpaces homicide in this country. 31 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: You think that there's homesides going on all over the place, 32 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: and there are a lot of homicides, but it it's 33 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: almost it gets beat almost three to one, all right, 34 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: So we work a lot of suicides and medical legal 35 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: death investigation, and the number one cause when we're talking 36 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: about this, it's going to be self inflicted gunshot ones. 37 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: It's not surprising to me that when they finally did 38 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: discover his body that they only had a partial skull 39 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: at that point in time. Um. And the reason is 40 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: is that you have this remarkable dynamic that takes place 41 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: with a firearm and somebody, you know, placing this tightly 42 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: to their head um. This is what's commonly referred to 43 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: as a press contact gunshot one. Sometimes you'll hear old 44 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: timers referred to it as a hard contact, and that 45 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: means that if you'll take your finger and kind of 46 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: place it into the palm of your hand, your index finger, 47 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: and press it as tightly as you can. Generally, this 48 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: is what is occurring on the side of the head 49 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: or in the forehead, you know, where we normally see 50 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: self inflicted gunshot ones take place. And when that seal 51 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: is created and that in that individual is pressing so 52 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: very tightly, there's a couple of things that come out 53 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: of the muzzle. At weapon. You've got to projectile a bullet, 54 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: if you will, and it's creating the whole, all right. 55 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: I know this is very simple, simplistic sounding, but it's 56 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: creating the actual hole. But people don't understand what happens 57 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: after that. It's not just the projectile that's disruptive. In 58 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: this case, you have a tremendous amount superheated gas that 59 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: comes out of the end of that muscle. As a 60 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: matter of fact, at nighttime when people fire weapons, it 61 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: looks like there's a ball of flame coming out of 62 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: the end of that weapon, and and there is, and 63 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: there's rapidly expanding gas. Remember even when we were taking 64 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: physical science classes back in the seventh grade, what do 65 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: they say about hot air? Hot air expands and guess what, 66 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: it's destructive. So when you interject this or inject this 67 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: into a skull, it blows the skull apart. And that's 68 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: what you have happening. That's that's why that when they 69 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: came upon these partial remains, Remember they were talking about 70 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 1: partial remains. Initially they only had a partial skull. And 71 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: the reason is is that his head, his skull actually 72 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: came apart at that time when he actuated that trigger 73 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: on that firearm. So when you say that the gas, 74 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: as you said, explodes or expands, you're not saying that 75 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: the gas actually goes into the skull and goes from 76 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: the inside out. You're just saying the pressure build up 77 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: from the outside. Well, it's it's an internal event relative 78 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: to when when that primer is struck by the firing 79 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: pen on that weapon. There's a little ignition that takes place. 80 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: And this is kind of a brief little firearms tutorial. 81 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: You've got a little primer cap in the base of 82 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: that bullet, and that initiates the actual firing sequence when 83 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: it's struck. There's that's the first explosion. The second explosion 84 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: takes place when that spark is transferred to what's called 85 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 1: the propellant. There's another group of powder that's in there. 86 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: And listen, when you've got a tight scale, when you 87 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: have a tight seal, in this particular case, you've got 88 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: this rapidly expanding hot air and it's got to go somewhere. Now, 89 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: the individual that is pressing the weapon to their skull 90 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: has has there's no way to ventilate it other than forward. 91 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: And so when the bullet the projectile actually bores into 92 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: the side of that skull through that that bony plate, 93 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: which is what it's referred to as, that gas is 94 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: going to seek that little hole that's being created by 95 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: the bullet. And that's why in a lot of these 96 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: cases you see this just mammoth trauma that takes place 97 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: where these press contact gunshot ones. And here's here's kind 98 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: of another little fact that people don't understand about skulls 99 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: when it comes to gunshot ones when when we're being 100 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,679 Speaker 1: formed in the embryotic stage, you know, our our skulls 101 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: literally come together, all right, they kind of seal, and 102 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: you know, people have heard about things like with babies 103 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: offspot fought now, all right, and that that hardens over 104 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: over a period of time. It's called ossification. When the 105 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: skull seals, it seals what are along lines that are 106 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: referred to as suiture lines, and it's it's a miracle 107 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: of nature. When you see it, it looks like locking 108 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: teeth and you've got these multiple plates of bone that 109 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: kind of come together. Let's think about that's real simple. 110 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: You've got your frontal bone, which is where your forehead is. 111 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: You got your temporal bone. Everybody's heard their temple. It's 112 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: kind of down low and forward of the forward of 113 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: the ears. And then you've got the parietal or parieteal 114 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: they call, and that makes up kind of the the 115 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: area above your ears. And then you have the occiput 116 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: or the accipital area, which is that thick bony prominence 117 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: on the back of your and it's all sealed together. 118 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: It almost looks like if you've ever seen fault lines. 119 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: You know, when they talk about earthquakes, it's it's kind 120 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: of along these little lines like this, and they're kind 121 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: of wavy, but those are weak points at that point 122 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: in time, so the gas is gonna try to expand, 123 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: and lots of times you'll I have literally seen skulls 124 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: open up, almost like the petal of a flower, think 125 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: of a tulip, kind of coming apart, you know, fracture 126 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: many times along along the suiture lines, and it's it's 127 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: quite fascinating to see. But you know, you generally only 128 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: see this in self inflicted gunshot ones because let's think 129 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: about it in order to form and this is key 130 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: to this investigation, Jackie, because people are gonna say, they're 131 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: gonna say that, how do you know this in the homicide? Well, 132 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: one of the reasons that one of the things we 133 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: look for from a forensic standpoint is when you press 134 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: that muzzle against the skull, you have to be in 135 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: a position where you're willing to do that and you 136 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: maintain that specific tension on that area. If he had 137 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: a weapon that was being placed against his skull, you're 138 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: not by someone else. You're not gonna lean into it, Jackie, 139 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: You're gonna shot pull your head away, right, So the 140 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: tighter they do you press it, the more damage that's 141 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: going to happen, not necessarily from the projectile, but from 142 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: this gas. Because look, the gas just by just by 143 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: virtue of physical science, it has to be released, it 144 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: has to expand that's the nature of heated gas. And 145 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: when it's injected into that little port, that little hole 146 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: that is being created, that cavitation by the bullet, it's 147 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: massive destruction at that point in time. Which part actually 148 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: kills you, Joe, the bullet, the destruction of the brain. 149 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: I mean, is there a way at this point to 150 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: tell or is it just kind of encapsulated in one action. 151 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: There's two parts to it and the trauma. Listen, if 152 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: you were just standing out in space and someone and 153 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: when I say space, I don't mean like outer space. 154 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: I'm just talking about in free roaming space, and someone 155 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: aims a projectile or aims a weapon at an individual. 156 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: Let's don't say you all right, Let's let's say you Nancy. 157 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: Nancy kills me often, and let's say you all right. Uh. 158 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: An individual aims of firearm at another individual from a distance, 159 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: and they hit you. They hit an individual center mass 160 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: with that projectile inside the skull the projectile is going 161 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: to kill you, all right, And and I know people 162 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,719 Speaker 1: at home right now are rolling their eyes, are saying, well, 163 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: of course it's gonna kill you. Got shot in the head. Well, 164 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: not everybody dies and gets shot in the head, but 165 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: a penetrative injury with a high velocity bullet going into 166 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 1: the brain, it's going to cavitate and destroy the brain 167 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: to the point where it's not going to be able 168 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: to function. So nine out of temp times, the individual 169 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: with a G S W the head is probably gonna 170 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: pass on. So as you're telling me, is as that 171 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: bullet penetrates the brain as well as all of that 172 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: gas and force, it basically turns the brain into mush. Yes, 173 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. It will turn the brain to mush. 174 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: And it's not you know, it's not mush in the 175 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: sense that I'm gonna be kind of graphic here, but 176 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: this is body packs, right, Um, it's not like a 177 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: mass of mashed potatos, all right, it doesn't. It doesn't 178 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: look like that in in the autopsy room when the 179 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: brain is actually removed from the vault of the skull. 180 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: All right, you can remove it in essentially one piece 181 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: most of the time, but it's gonna be greatly fragmented. 182 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: You're gonna have a tremendous amount of hemorrhage that's in 183 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: this area, and you'll see what actual forensic pathologists they 184 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: refer to these as gas injuries where you have this 185 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: kind of ripping apart and in what will happen, and 186 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: this is kind of fascinating, is that there will be 187 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: gas injuries that will not be associated with the actual 188 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: projectile injury. You know, like if an individual were to 189 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: shoot themselves in the right temple and this is a 190 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: press contact, you're going to see a tremendous amount of trauma. 191 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: It goes without saying to that specific area, but you 192 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: can actually see gas injuries because it kind of expands out. 193 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: You can see gas injuries on the back side of 194 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: the brain as well, where the bullet never even touches. Jackie. 195 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: That's that's the kind of force that you're talking about here. 196 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: It's a it's a ripping, it's more of a shredding 197 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: kind of thing that takes place. And it's not just 198 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: the what's called the gray matter and the white matter. Um. 199 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: What you're also going to see is all the little 200 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: tiny vessels that are rising up out of the floor 201 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: of the skull. The optic nerves, which are very there. 202 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: You can appreciate them when you when you take the 203 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: brain out there, they're glaring when you see them. Um, 204 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: all of that is going to be disrupted as well, 205 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: and so you'll see these little tiny areas of hemorrhage 206 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: all over the place and you say, well, what in 207 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: the world could that be. Well, that's gas injury that 208 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: you're seeing. So it does mass destruction. That's why when 209 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: people sustained self inflicted gunshot wounds, it's it's very, very 210 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: difficult for them to survive these things, even even if 211 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: they get them to the emergency room, even if they 212 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: can get them into surgery, and hey, even beyond surgery, 213 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 1: if they get them onto I c U and they 214 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: put them in a coma, it's it's very very difficult 215 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: for people to make it through after they sustained one 216 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: of these injuries. Do you see these same kind of 217 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: injuries on let's say somebody was going to shoot themselves 218 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: in the shoulder. Do you see these same kind of 219 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: gas injuries on other parts of the body as well? Yeah, 220 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: you can, but there's there's something about the skull. It's 221 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: not it's not the same. Let's say I love the 222 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: example that's talked about relative to the shoulder. Let's take 223 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: that for instance, if you have an individual that's going 224 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: to take the muzzle of a weapon and place it 225 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: tightly against the surface of their of their skin overlying 226 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: you know, the their chest there, and they pull the trigger. 227 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: The gas in that particular instance is being dispersed into 228 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: a lot of soft tissue you've got underlying, you know, 229 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: if you're talking about your shoulder, You've got the top 230 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: side of the pectoralis muscle, You've got all of these 231 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: muscle groups that are involving around the collar bone in 232 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: all these areas, and then you have this kind of 233 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: network of bones that are through here. You know, you've 234 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: got your your collar bone, Uh, that's there. You've got 235 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: the connection with with the scalcule on the backside, which 236 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: is of course your your shoulder blade, and uh, you're 237 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: the upper portion of the humorous all these all these places. 238 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: But what what they don't have that the skull does 239 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: have is this kind of sealed environment. You know, it's 240 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: it's almost as if the the cranial vault is a 241 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: separate it's kind of a separate entity in and of 242 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: itself as it applies the skelton. There's no other bone 243 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: like it. It's a network of bones that are tightly 244 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: fused together. Remember we talked about those suture suture lines. 245 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: It's tightly fused together and it creates this kind of um, 246 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: this kind of container for the brain, if you will. 247 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: And it's tight. I mean, it's very well sealed. And 248 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: so the gas as it expands into the shoulder. With 249 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: the example that you gave, it's going to disperse through 250 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: the soft tissue in the cranium. You don't have that. 251 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: You've got your scalp that you'll see. But with a 252 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: scalp it will literally come away from the skull and 253 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: and then kind of settle back down. But you don't 254 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: have anything else that's going to absorb that energy. Uh, 255 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: it's going to be dispersed into the sealed environment. And 256 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: that's the reason the head comes apart. And one of 257 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: the really interesting things that we look for that is 258 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: if we still have soft tissue, which in the case 259 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: of Brian Laundry, what it sounds like they might not 260 00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: have had. But I don't know that for a fact. 261 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: You'll get these little injuries, uh to the scalp. Now 262 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: I'm talking about soft tissue. You get these little injuries 263 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: to the scalp and jack you know what they're referred 264 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: to as, they're called stell eate injuries. And the reason 265 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: they're called stell eate injuries, um is, think about every 266 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: image you've ever seen of like at Christmas time when 267 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: people do renderings of the Star of Bethlehem and it's 268 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: kind of got that the long tail on it, and 269 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: it's got the short little arms over to the left 270 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: and the right, and it's got another short little arm 271 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: that goes up. The injuries actually look like that their 272 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: star shape. So forensic pathologists have adopted this term stell 273 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: eate and you'll see that on the surface of the skull, 274 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: and the stell eate injuries only occur over over the 275 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: surface where you have tissue that's covering very closely over 276 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: a flat, bony surface. Only other place that you might 277 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: see it in the body is going to be over 278 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: the sternum, which is, you know, a flat bone that 279 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: we have in the center of the chest. You'll see 280 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: a stellate injury. But again this only comes about as 281 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: a result of pressing that muzzle. And the reason it 282 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: forms the star shape, if you will, is that the 283 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: skin with this injection of hot gas is also ripping 284 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: and tearing. It just so happens that it has a 285 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: distinctive pattern when you see it. A stellate injury body 286 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:41,360 Speaker 1: bags With Joe Scott Morgan, we're talking about Brian Laundry, 287 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: and you know, one of one of the things that 288 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: really strikes me about this case is the body is 289 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: fascinating and what they found relative to his remains or 290 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: what did actually remain of his body, But it's this 291 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: hostile environment. You know, Jackie, he was found in a swamp. 292 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: Well you would know about swamps, Joe. You know, you 293 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: started your death investigation career out in New Orleans and 294 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: there's lots of those kind of conditions in Louisiana. So 295 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: everybody wants to know. They found some remains of Brian Laundry. 296 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,719 Speaker 1: They have not found a full skeleton, and they found 297 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: his skull partial skull again, so we have partial remains, 298 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: so we believe there's alligators there. Joe, how were we 299 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: able to find anything? Shouldn't the skull have been gone 300 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: to's that's the question. Since the search for Brian Laundry started, 301 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, everybody was looking for him and whatnot, and 302 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: they talked about all these hostile environments he was going to, 303 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: and just on the side I have to say, you know, 304 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 1: it turns out he was almost right in plain view. 305 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: I guess, you know, out there in the swamps. But 306 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: swamp can be a tricky thing. It changes day to day. 307 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: You think that it's a static environment. It's not water 308 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: levels change only, it's changes all those sorts of things. 309 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: With him being found out in this kind of semi aquatic, 310 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,959 Speaker 1: uh mucky kind of environment, it adds an entire different 311 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: level to the dynamic. Remember what they were saying in 312 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,959 Speaker 1: press conferences. The police were coming out and they were 313 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: talking about what they were encountering out there. You had 314 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: all all manner of snakes. You know, you've got cotton 315 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: mouths out there, You've got copper heads and rattlesnakes and 316 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: everything else. But yeah, the apex predator in this environment. 317 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: Keep in mind we are in Florida. It's going to 318 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: be an alligator. And you know, just like you know 319 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: you had mentioned, I started my career in South Louisiana. Well, 320 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: you have to contend with the Mississippi River and all 321 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 1: the swamps and the marshes and Gulf of Mexico, And yeah, 322 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: we had a lot of gators down in that area, 323 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: and I've worked cases involving gators. But what set this 324 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 1: case apart from me and the reason from Jump Street 325 00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:00,160 Speaker 1: I suspected that a gator wasn't involved in this um 326 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: was the fact that when gators feast on a body, 327 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: and it doesn't have to be a human body. When 328 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: they you know, they can go up on a bank 329 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: and you know, you've seen these these videos of them 330 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: where they just kind of lay still in the water 331 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: and the wait until like some little deer comes up 332 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: to the side of the water, a raccoon or something. 333 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: They'll just reach up and grab it and pull it under. 334 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: But they also do a thing called the spin, and 335 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: that actually kills kills the prey and people. You know, 336 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: I think that they're under this impression that an alligator 337 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: will just immediately eat whatever the victim is not the 338 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: way this operates. Um. The nature of an alligator when 339 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: they take a prey is they will spin it after 340 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: they snatch it off the bank. And they're an aquatic animal. 341 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: They loved, they loved being the water. They'll sun themselves, 342 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: but they loved being the water. And then you know 343 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: what they do before they ever catch the prey. Lots 344 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: of times they'll they'll back up to a mud bank 345 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: and they take that huge tail and they kind of 346 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: swish it back and forth. They swish it back and forth. 347 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: You know what they're doing. They're actually creating a meat locker, 348 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 1: and it's it's fascinating. We would find these in South 349 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: Louisiana many times. Had a friend that actually fell through 350 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: one one time and he landed on top of dead 351 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: deer carcasses, terrified. He had been fishing. And what they 352 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: do with their victims is that after they kill the victim, 353 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: they go back to these little lockers they have set up, 354 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: and they kind of pushed them under the bank into 355 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: this meat locker. And people say, well, what in the 356 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: world they do that. I'll tell you why alligators can't chew. 357 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: Might not know that they don't chew. They actually have 358 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: to wait for remains to decompose so that they can 359 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: actually rip them apart and swallow them. If you ever 360 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: see the action of an alligator's mouth, it's not something 361 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: that even like a dog. You know, dogs will chew 362 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: on things. They alligators generally don't do that. They chomp. 363 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 1: You know that that that's associated with alligators. We hear 364 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: that all the time. They chomp, they chomp, they grip, 365 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: they rip, and the swallow. Now you can take like 366 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: a chicken carcass that you get the grocery store, and 367 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: I've seen this, you know, an alligator shows and whatnot 368 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,479 Speaker 1: in South Louisiana, and you can throw it to an 369 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: alligator and they'll it'll it'll go into their mouth and 370 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: they'll just swallow the thing. They don't sit there to 371 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: on the thing. But when you're talking about the body 372 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: of a large deer or even a small deer, are 373 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: certainly a human being, They're they're not going to eat 374 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: that individual immediately. And so when I began to hear 375 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,719 Speaker 1: that they had found Brian Laundry's body in a visible area. 376 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: Now granted he was probably underwater, you know, they talked 377 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: about the water level of dropped and everything, and I 378 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: knew that they had remains. I knew that he wasn't 379 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: buried beneath the bank, which is something that you would 380 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: commonly see with a gator. He was out in a 381 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: visible area at that point in time. Now I have 382 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: no idea why it is that a gator didn't just 383 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 1: come up and grab his body and hauling him away, 384 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: you know, And let's you know, let's be real about this. 385 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: He had been out there for a while, so he 386 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 1: would he's gonna be in at least probably a moderate 387 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: to advance state of decomposition. But for some reason, his 388 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: body wasn't carted away by an alligator, and it wasn't 389 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: stowed somewhere so that they could come back and feast 390 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: on remains later. It was out there. It was out 391 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: there to the point where they could appreciate that they 392 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: had physical remains. They knew that they had a partial 393 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: skull at this point in time. And when I heard 394 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: partial skull, um, my immediate reaction to this was, okay, well, 395 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: one of two things has happened. Um. Either he was 396 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: struck in the head by something like a heavy object. Uh, 397 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: And they said skull, they didn't say head. So I 398 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: knew that there's probably no soft tissue or this gonna 399 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: be a gunshot one. Because I do know this. I've 400 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,719 Speaker 1: I've worked a lot of cases out in the woods 401 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 1: where people have self inflicted gunshot ones. The bodies go 402 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: into a skeletal or advanced state of decomposition, and the 403 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: soft tissue is the first thing to go. It's gonna 404 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: be gone, and so you'll just have partial bits of that, 405 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: that bony plate or those bony plates that are left 406 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: behind uh through the process of decomposition. And when his 407 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: body finally made it to the forensic anthropologists, Let's keep 408 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: in mind, the m E turned his body over to 409 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: the forensic anthropologists, they had very limited uh bits of 410 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: human remain to work with. And I still, you know, 411 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: I'm still wondering if they were able to recover everything Jackie, 412 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: because if he's in the semi aquatic environment, he's down 413 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: into the muck. Okay, this kind of muddy, mushy bottom 414 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 1: and it's it's really nasty. If you've never been out 415 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: into a swamp, there's a lot of UH debris that 416 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 1: comes off of trees. There's always a process and it's 417 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: right in your face. The swamp has a particular odor 418 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: two and it's not a foul odor necessarily, but there's 419 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 1: always this this kind of interesting odor plant decay that's 420 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: out there. Because this is always happening. That's why everything 421 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: is so green. You know, when you go into a swamp. 422 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: It's it's green. There's a lot of vegetation, a lot 423 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: in there. That's why you get a lot of these 424 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: animals that will go into this environment. They'll they'll they'll 425 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: have homes there. You see raccoons on the side of 426 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: these water on sides of these waterways, and they're living 427 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: there in the swamp and they're taking fish and crawfish 428 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: and everything out of out of the water. Possums live 429 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: out there. So you've got this big ecosystem that's out there, 430 00:25:45,240 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: and eventually, eventually it's going to consume everything. Body backs 431 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 1: with Joe Scott Morgan, Jackie, I gotta tell you, you you know, 432 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: as well as anybody you've been at this for a 433 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: while now. Uh, there will always always be questions about 434 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: the death of Brian Laundry. Of course there will be 435 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: in The biggest one is, I think from most people, 436 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: is will we ever recover a weapon? Joe, Yeah, you know, 437 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: I can't sit here and actually say that they don't 438 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: have a weapon. Remember, it was never even confirmed until 439 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: just a few days ago that he had a weapon 440 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: or even had access to weapons, you know, Jackie. What 441 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 1: has been revealed is that the authorities recovered and I 442 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: say recovered. They were actually surrendered by the family five 443 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: to six weapons in this home. And you know, we 444 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,360 Speaker 1: didn't know anything about that in the news reports initially. 445 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: But what we do know is that one weapon is 446 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: still on accounted for, so we can only assume that 447 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: that is, in fact the weapon that Laundry took into 448 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: the swamp with him to end his life with. And 449 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: we know that he you know, look, the authorities are saying, 450 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: now this is a suicide, this is a self inflicted 451 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: gunshot one. And I think the big question is is 452 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: somebody gonna walk up on this weapon one day? Had 453 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: they actually recovered it? Remember that that mucky silty bottom 454 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: that I was referring to, Uh, did it swallow up 455 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: this weapon? And is there any chance that they can 456 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: recover it? You know, as we you know, we're heading 457 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: into winter now, and the one thing about this time 458 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: of year, as opposed to the summertime, we're going into 459 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: kind of a dry season, so the waters in that 460 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: area will begin to receive a bit you're not gonna 461 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: be you know, there were there were certain instances. I 462 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: remember one of the local law enforcement officers on one 463 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: of the swamp buggies jack There were certain certain times 464 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: they were six seven feet deep in water out there, 465 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: you know, in the swamp buggies. You're not gonna have 466 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: that right now. So now, right now, as we're headed 467 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: into the dry season, is the time that the local authorities, 468 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: along with the FBI or whoever else has a vested 469 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 1: investigative injury has a vested investigative interest in this case, 470 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: are gonna need to go back out there with the 471 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: crime scene team. If they haven't recovered this weapon yet, 472 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: they're gonna have to get multiple and I mean multiple 473 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 1: um metal detectors on hand and sweep that area. And 474 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: kind of the way that they would do this is 475 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: if you imagine four or five personnel lined up side 476 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: by side with probably about three to four ft of 477 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: space between each person. They each have a metal detector, 478 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: and they walk forward, if you will, covering this specific 479 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: area where his body was found, and they begin to 480 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: sweep back and forth with those metal detectors, they might 481 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: get hit. You know. One of the things that's kind 482 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: of interesting is that they specifically mentioned Jackie that the 483 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: water had receded. Well, what do we know when water 484 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: recedes um If you've ever you know, if you've ever 485 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: been out outside of your home and there's been a 486 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: huge rainfall that's taken place. You know, in the South, 487 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: we call them gully washers, And if you uh, as 488 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: the water begins to to recede and it goes down 489 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: into the sewage lines along street, it will begin to 490 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: pull all kinds of debris with it. I wonder if 491 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: that weapon didn't kind of migrate down this area, you know, 492 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: maybe it moved away from where they actually found the body. 493 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: And that's something they're gonna have to take into account 494 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: here to try to determine if that weapon is anywhere 495 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: in that location. I can almost assure you they're gonna 496 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: be out there looking for it um over these coming months, 497 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: because now is the time to do it. And you know, 498 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: certainly we don't. We don't want some citizen, and trust me, 499 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: there will be citizens that go out there because of 500 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: the notorious nature of this location. Now, they're not gonna 501 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: want some private citizen walking out there and maybe they've 502 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: got a kid with them and they pick up this weapon. 503 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: For all we know, this is a weapon that still 504 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: contains a live ammunition. Somebody could really get hurt. So 505 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: if for no other reason they want to recover it 506 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: for that purpose. You read my mind, Joe, because I 507 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: was gonna ask you can't they just go out there 508 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: with the metal detector and and find it? Or if 509 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: you've watched any viral videos these days, you see people 510 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: who go out and do magnetic fishing. They take a 511 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: really strong magnet, put it on a really long rope 512 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,479 Speaker 1: and throw it out in the water to see what 513 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: they can find. So I would have to imagine, like 514 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,239 Speaker 1: you said, that the that the law enforcement is going 515 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: to be on top of this. Yeah, I know that 516 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: they are, Jackie. And can you imagine what what horror 517 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: would follow if someone got injured as a result of 518 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: them not recovering this weapon. There there are a lot 519 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: of people that have an interest in in finding this weapon. 520 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: And for me as a forensic scientist, yeah, I want 521 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: to know what type of weapon this is. I want 522 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: to know the specific caliber. Um. I want to know 523 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: if they recovered a projectile and that's something else that 524 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: they could be looking for, you know, with the metal detectives, 525 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: you know this, uh, whether it's a semi jacket or 526 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: a jacketed ground that passed through his head and wound 527 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: up you know lodged in a tree or on the 528 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: ground somewhere, that can happen. And also, if it's a 529 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: semi automatic weapon, the little shell casing that comes out. 530 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: Remember if this is a semi automatic handgun or rifle, 531 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: that spent casing, spent brass as we call it, will 532 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: be ejected out into the air. So that's another metallic 533 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: element that you're looking for at the scene, and that's 534 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: going to have and on the base of those, on 535 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: the base of the spent brass, it has a caliber 536 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: stamp on it. So let's just say, for instance, it's 537 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: a nine millimeter. If you look at the base of 538 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: that of that that spent casing, it will be stamped 539 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: with the number nine, and then it will have M 540 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: M and then below it it'll have a manufacturer's mark. Okay, 541 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: so that will be a tie back. And even if 542 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: they don't recover the projectile. One of the cool things 543 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: about this, again, if this is a semi automatic handgun, 544 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: if they recover casing, they can actually match up the 545 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: casing marks or the extraction what they're called extraction marks 546 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: on this weapon to the casing. You don't necessarily have 547 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: to have the projectile itself. You can do a match 548 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: real it's not as accurate, but you can do a 549 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: match to say, yeah, this weapon generated these tiny little 550 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: ejection marks on this projectile, therefore tying it back to 551 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: that and if they can show that that weapon was 552 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: owned by this family, then that should be case closed. 553 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: Even if a weapon is recovered Joe, unless there is 554 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: a visible serial number that can be tied back to 555 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: the family. Given the damage on the skull, are they 556 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: actually if they don't have a serial number, going to 557 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: be able to say definitively that this is the weapon 558 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: they killed Brian Laundry. I think that it is going 559 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: to be within the realm of possibility that they can 560 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: say that, because the term that they're gonna use, they're 561 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: not going to paint themselves into a corner, either legally 562 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: or forensically by saying with absolute certainty, okay, with absolute certainty. 563 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: The term that we use in forensic science, and Nancy 564 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: can address this is when we're in court, we say 565 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: reasonable certainty. Okay, we say within a reasonable reasonable amount 566 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: of certain scientific certainty here, and that's that's what we're 567 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: looking at, because you have to take the circumstances in total. Here, 568 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: it's you might not get a specific physical match, but 569 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: is the wound that you're seeing generated on what's left 570 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: of this skull consistent consistent with the weapon that they 571 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: might recover it the scene, This weapon generate this injury 572 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: that might be the best that it's ever going to get. 573 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:12,240 Speaker 1: Tom Joseph Scott Morgan and this his body backs