Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Today.
Speaker 1: I talked with two colleagues, Brian Dellett and Dick Hughes,
Speaker 1: men I've known for a long time. Both are actors
Speaker 1: whose lives have also been touched by our country's war
Speaker 1: in Vietnam. Dell Itt, my first guest, served in Vietnam
Speaker 1: after high school. Hughes traveled to Vietnam as a conscientious
Speaker 1: objector in his early twenties. The impact of the war
Speaker 1: has stayed with both of them. Brian Delitt spent on
Speaker 1: stage in movies and on TV. He's also a playwright.
Speaker 1: His play Memorial Day tells the story of a Vietnam
Speaker 1: veteran on the verge of suicide over a Memorial Day holiday.
Speaker 1: He developed the play in collaboration with the Actor's Studio,
Speaker 1: with support from actors like Harvey Kitel and Ellen Burston.
Speaker 1: Memorial Day was ten years in the making dell It
Speaker 1: started to play after he was living in New York
Speaker 1: trying to become an actor, and one of the planes
Speaker 1: flew over him that September morning. That's when all this
Speaker 1: Vietnam stuff got triggered, uh In in a major way.
Speaker 1: And I started to take pieces of it into the
Speaker 1: actor's studio and are icons there Uh Norman Mailer Harvey
Speaker 1: Allen said, you got to keep bringing more of this in.
Speaker 1: And this was the beginning of what would become the
Speaker 1: play Memorial Day. And Ellen was instrumental in helping me
Speaker 1: shape it in terms of having a beginning, medal, and end,
Speaker 1: and also not having to totally rely on the exact
Speaker 1: details of my story, so that I started combining situations
Speaker 1: that served the greater truth of what I was trying
Speaker 1: to say. When you wrote this, and in the time
Speaker 1: you've worked on this, I'm wondering did it bring about
Speaker 1: interaction with other generations of soldiers? Yeah, there were some
Speaker 1: older veterans, but there was the younger ones that started
Speaker 1: coming around. There was a I guess like a halfway
Speaker 1: house around the corner from the actor's studio where men
Speaker 1: and women coming out of the service could transition into
Speaker 1: civilian life for like the next six months if they
Speaker 1: wanted to. It was I think it was on forty
Speaker 1: three Street, and this UH guy came and he had
Speaker 1: done a couple of tours in Afghanistan and I didn't
Speaker 1: really know him, but we set a little a couple
Speaker 1: of times and he said, if you do this again,
Speaker 1: would you tell me let me know how? How can
Speaker 1: I find out? And they said, well, you know, the
Speaker 1: studio will mention it. And I think it was like
Speaker 1: six months later. We did like two or three weekends
Speaker 1: at this little theater called the Drilling Company up on
Speaker 1: the Upper West Side, and he let me know that
Speaker 1: he was bringing one of his buddies from Afghanistan that
Speaker 1: he had been with and that they were going to
Speaker 1: come and see it like the next night. I said,
Speaker 1: we'll say hello afterwards. So they did. They came, and
Speaker 1: because the play really addresses the whole notion of suicide
Speaker 1: and the prevention of suicide ultimately is the goal of
Speaker 1: the play, so he um, he comes with his friend
Speaker 1: and I guess it was the next day he uh
Speaker 1: contacts me and he says, you met my friend. You
Speaker 1: met last night? I said yeah. He said we were
Speaker 1: maybe two blocks away from the theater and he stopped
Speaker 1: and said, I've been planning to kill myself the last
Speaker 1: couple of months. I don't know what to do. At
Speaker 1: that time, I was thinking of stopping doing this because
Speaker 1: it was costing me money. It was no financial reward.
Speaker 1: So that meaning when that guy said that to you,
Speaker 1: that put the wind back in your sales for the project. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just thought there's a purpose for this. You know,
Speaker 1: if one if I can keep one guy from eating
Speaker 1: a bullet, you know, I want to go back and
Speaker 1: I want to just do a little quick timeline. So
Speaker 1: you grew up Brown in Jersey, raised in Pennsylvania. Your
Speaker 1: dad sold bar related materials, mixers, alcohol or whatever, cordials.
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, he was what they called a missionary.
Speaker 1: He was also a liquor salesman. But he when he
Speaker 1: was at the height of his career, he would go
Speaker 1: around and he would present slide shows to the wholesalers
Speaker 1: in New Jersey and basically say, look, we use only
Speaker 1: purified water and we do this, and they have my
Speaker 1: sister and I have to sit through these slide shows
Speaker 1: where they show these guys, here's that much formooth. You
Speaker 1: wanted that Martin us an eye dropper. And then you
Speaker 1: got drafted or you enlisted. Oh I got drafted. Was
Speaker 1: your dad in the military. He was a World War
Speaker 1: Two guy. He flew twenty four liberators and uh he
Speaker 1: was actually interestingly enough, he was not like you should
Speaker 1: do this. Like my mom said, are you going to
Speaker 1: go to Canada? And I said, no, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: go to Canada. And my father he was interesting. He
Speaker 1: just said, I don't know if this wants for us?
Speaker 1: And where where're you going to train? Fort Bragg, North Carolina.
Speaker 1: And it was tough because that was the home of
Speaker 1: the eighty second Airborne and a lot of those drill
Speaker 1: sergeants had already been to Vietnam. They were uh in
Speaker 1: some instances there were rangers and they just didn't take
Speaker 1: any ship um and uh um. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: was surprised because I went in kind of less a
Speaker 1: fair like let's get this over with. And then when
Speaker 1: you have someone in your face like that and knows
Speaker 1: how to scare you in the best way, and so
Speaker 1: that was it was it really, it was a really
Speaker 1: powerful um preparation. And also I didn't expect to thrive
Speaker 1: in the military. I didn't know. I didn't know it's
Speaker 1: gonna be a good shot um. And I wouldn't even
Speaker 1: figure this out till a couple of years ago that
Speaker 1: the eye hand thing came from archery when I was
Speaker 1: like eleven, twelve, thirteen years old, because I've never had
Speaker 1: to handle the weapon. I haven't had a weapon since
Speaker 1: the Army, So it's like, um, it was really weird
Speaker 1: to to to suddenly go, wow, you can. You're an
Speaker 1: expert shot with an M fourteen and X six thing.
Speaker 1: So finally you go and you get over there, and
Speaker 1: I mean, you're an actress, so I'm assuming there's gonna
Speaker 1: be an interesting description here. What does it feel like?
Speaker 1: What does it feel like? Okay, I'll get to that
Speaker 1: in one second. I didn't I didn't see my first
Speaker 1: professional play until after I came back from Vietnam, so
Speaker 1: like like I had no and I mean I have
Speaker 1: to say, I think you're you're picking up on something,
Speaker 1: which was I guess I was recording this, you know,
Speaker 1: just and I mean I had the thing. I think
Speaker 1: Stone really captures it in a platoon when you get
Speaker 1: off the plane and you get hit with the heat
Speaker 1: and you don't know where you are and the smell
Speaker 1: and everything like that, it's just like you feel like
Speaker 1: you've arrived at another planet. And so uh, in my case,
Speaker 1: I landed in Cameron Bay and then um, I was
Speaker 1: sent up to this area. But the place that was
Speaker 1: called True Lie that very the very first night. Um,
Speaker 1: that gave us some bad chow and it was hot.
Speaker 1: This was early March of six and they gave us
Speaker 1: warm beers and we sat down in these benches and
Speaker 1: they had this giant white plywood screen and we watched
Speaker 1: the movie called The Devil's Brigade, a World War two movie.
Speaker 1: And then um, I was right after the movie, about
Speaker 1: twenty minutes after the movie, and I had just talked
Speaker 1: to this guy from Philadelphia. We were talking about Acapella. Anyway,
Speaker 1: after the movie, all of a sudden, the rockets came in.
Speaker 1: We were getting rocketed, and I didn't know what the
Speaker 1: hell was happening, and and they didn't tell us. They
Speaker 1: didn't tell us where the bunkers were. You could see them,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't paying attention, you know, I'd expect to
Speaker 1: get hit that night. But the rockets poured in and um,
Speaker 1: there was all the screaming and they black out everything.
Speaker 1: They turned the lights out right away, and it's like
Speaker 1: I hit the dirt. I'm in the sand and I
Speaker 1: can't see anything. And it was in that moment that
Speaker 1: I felt this and drogyn this something next to me.
Speaker 1: Maybe just give me a kiss on the cheek, you know,
Speaker 1: and it was really I felt it was like this
Speaker 1: beautiful form of death. And I remember thinking, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that with you, you know,
Speaker 1: and by Jessica Lang and all that jet exactly, Yeah, totally,
Speaker 1: And so that I pushed that away. And it was
Speaker 1: at that moment I made this vow that somehow, some way,
Speaker 1: I was going to get home. For people, like, when
Speaker 1: you're in Fort Bragg and you're getting ready to deploy
Speaker 1: and go over to Southeast Asia, do you basically are
Speaker 1: you basically told in any terms, whether they're vague or
Speaker 1: specific terms, and they basically are they telling you you're
Speaker 1: going to the ship man, like you're not going to
Speaker 1: work in some telegraph office, you're not gonna edit movies,
Speaker 1: You're going to get a gun and you're going to
Speaker 1: the thick of it. Did they tell you that when
Speaker 1: you're on your way and they will tell you where
Speaker 1: you're going? Well one plus, you don't know. If it's
Speaker 1: hard to describe the where is July in the topography
Speaker 1: and the geography of Vietnam, it's Um. If you go
Speaker 1: back to when it was half and half North and
Speaker 1: South Um, there was the second largest city was Danang
Speaker 1: and truly was about seventy miles seventy five miles south
Speaker 1: of Denang along the coast of the South China Sea.
Speaker 1: When you were there, what do you do? Like drugs, alcohol, sex, food, whatever?
Speaker 1: What did you do to get through the experience of
Speaker 1: two years of this? Wow? Um? Well, I lived for
Speaker 1: the letters that would come from my girlfriend Carol and
Speaker 1: from my mom. My dad never wrote to me the
Speaker 1: whole time, and I didn't even notice it. Why do
Speaker 1: you think The rationalization, which I would find out in
Speaker 1: psychoanalysis years later, was oh, he's not a letter writer.
Speaker 1: It's like you mean you? I think this is me
Speaker 1: getting nailed by the shrink. Did he need to disengage
Speaker 1: because he thought maybe you weren't going to come back.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I I find when you
Speaker 1: came back. What did he say? Well? I I never
Speaker 1: brought it up because I just accepted it, because it
Speaker 1: was like if people said, did your dad right you,
Speaker 1: I'd say no, my mom wrote for both of them.
Speaker 1: I had totally rationalized. But I lived for the letters.
Speaker 1: I lived for the letters. Um. The letters from Carol
Speaker 1: and the letters from my mom were like life sustaining.
Speaker 1: They were tethers. And as far as the day to day,
Speaker 1: it's truly one day at a time. Living. You're looking
Speaker 1: at the calendar all the time. You're seeing guys who
Speaker 1: are going to leave in thirty days. So you see
Speaker 1: guys that are leaving, and you just do you feel
Speaker 1: that thing in your chest. It's like, God, when's that?
Speaker 1: When's that day going to come? There were two times
Speaker 1: I cried in Vietnam. Um. Once when I was in
Speaker 1: the hospital I had skin problems that were really bad.
Speaker 1: The other time was when I left the day I
Speaker 1: had to leave my company to come home. I was
Speaker 1: walking to go to the jeep with my duffel bag
Speaker 1: and a couple of the guys I was tight with
Speaker 1: crew following me, and I started shaking. I didn't know
Speaker 1: what was going on. I thought, what's the I've been
Speaker 1: living for this day? And um, I'm like, I'm coming apart,
Speaker 1: you know, And I uh, And of course they're laughing.
Speaker 1: They're like, a man, you're going home. You know what's
Speaker 1: your version of why one was? I made it? I'm
Speaker 1: going home. Um. I have my opinions, but that's one
Speaker 1: of the that's one of the most profoundly human emotions
Speaker 1: you can feel is to finally be escaping the clutches
Speaker 1: of a situation that you prayed would be over, and
Speaker 1: it's finally over, and you just collapse. Why do you
Speaker 1: think you collapse when it was over? You know, I
Speaker 1: have to. I wanted to fit this in and I
Speaker 1: hope it's not a non sequitur. But it's as opportunities
Speaker 1: arrived to appreciate life's beauty, mysteries, truths, and heartbreak, to
Speaker 1: understand life on a higher plane. That's from your memoir.
Speaker 1: That's so anyway. I don't mean to throw that idea
Speaker 1: like this, but I felt it yesterday thinking about it,
Speaker 1: which was this is going be a conversation about transformation.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about it. We have so much to cover
Speaker 1: therapy forget about suicidal and the deepest painful thoughts. But
Speaker 1: how soon do you want to go to therapy after
Speaker 1: you get back? How soon? Oh? I got sent to
Speaker 1: a shrink at Fort Monmouth, New Jersey. I had to
Speaker 1: do my last few months at Fort Monmouth, New Jersey.
Speaker 1: So I was basically going back and forth from home.
Speaker 1: But it was it was a disaster because I didn't
Speaker 1: trust the guy, I mean, the key, the key things
Speaker 1: with most veterans, and especially coming out of these situations
Speaker 1: is trust. You know, who did you trust him? Why?
Speaker 1: I just didn't trust him. I didn't think I wasn't
Speaker 1: gonna talk to him at all. And I trusted the bars.
Speaker 1: I was into the bars and drinking, and because I
Speaker 1: didn't drink that much in Vietnam, I had a lot
Speaker 1: of responsibility. So I took it pretty seriously. And uh um,
Speaker 1: I mean I'd smoked grass once in a while and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, but it was it was really about
Speaker 1: the work, and also I want to be as responsible
Speaker 1: as I possibly could. When I got home, I thought
Speaker 1: I would sleep for the next two weeks. When I
Speaker 1: got home, I couldn't sleep. I couldn't sleep for more
Speaker 1: than two hours a night, and every night I was
Speaker 1: out drinking, and I had a load of cash. And
Speaker 1: I got into trouble a couple of weeks after I
Speaker 1: was back because I wasn't twenty one yet and in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: you know, and I was getting away with it because
Speaker 1: in those days, you had a military idea where you
Speaker 1: had your picture on it, so and I was a
Speaker 1: big kid, so they didn't even look at it. But
Speaker 1: then I you know, I got into this scrap with
Speaker 1: this owner of this bar, and uh, I got in
Speaker 1: trouble and it was it was long. Not long after that,
Speaker 1: there was a situation where, um, I was in New
Speaker 1: Jersey and it was a very violent incident that took place,
Speaker 1: um like right next to me. And it was the
Speaker 1: day after that thereabouts, I just decided I had to
Speaker 1: do something with my life because I was wrecking cards.
Speaker 1: I was just I was feeling like it was me
Speaker 1: against the world and uh and I just didn't trust
Speaker 1: anything or anybody. And I was it with you. I
Speaker 1: was with your girlfriend and your parents who were primary
Speaker 1: to you while you were overseas. What was it like
Speaker 1: when you we engaged with them? Um, I scared them.
Speaker 1: Um My girlfriend, uh, Carol just kind of she wanted
Speaker 1: to keep like this distance, you know, and it was
Speaker 1: um and of course that made me crazy. And we've
Speaker 1: had this incredible um relationship, really romantic and all that
Speaker 1: stuff before I went over there. And when I got back,
Speaker 1: you know, a year can change a lot of life
Speaker 1: in a ninety twenty year old and uh so, um
Speaker 1: so we had trouble, you know, finding our way back
Speaker 1: to each other to the end eventually it was off.
Speaker 1: I became a volcanic thing for the next few years.
Speaker 1: I mean, um my, my dad was really worried. My mom.
Speaker 1: They were worried continually, like what's he doing now? You know.
Speaker 1: There would be like they'd see me open up the
Speaker 1: trunk of the car and they'd be like, you know,
Speaker 1: a bunch of coats from the army and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: They didn't know what was going on. So what what
Speaker 1: were the coats? They were, you know, like fatigue jackets
Speaker 1: or they were those kind of dress army coats. And
Speaker 1: what were you doing with them? I had I was
Speaker 1: giving them away half the time. I didn't care, you know,
Speaker 1: it was just I was And if somebody wanted to
Speaker 1: buy one, I'd sell for five bucks or something. When
Speaker 1: does the acting playwriting? When did the arts take hold?
Speaker 1: My second year of college, where did you go? Again?
Speaker 1: You said, Bucks County Community College in Pennsylvania. What did
Speaker 1: you study? I started just generally, and because I was
Speaker 1: terrified of college because I had had bad reading learning
Speaker 1: problems all through school, and so some confidence came from
Speaker 1: the Army in terms of work ethic and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But I took a reading course to learn how to
Speaker 1: really read. I had site things that I was doing
Speaker 1: that we've never been corrected from the time I was
Speaker 1: a kid. I got this guy. He saved me. He
Speaker 1: just he set me up for college. It was the
Speaker 1: first year I got my confidence because I got this
Speaker 1: reading problem taking care of. And then in my second year,
Speaker 1: I was thinking pretty mad because I had this confidence
Speaker 1: I didn't have before. But I took this acting class
Speaker 1: because I couldn't get the math teacher I wanted. He said,
Speaker 1: get me next semester. So I, Uh. I took this
Speaker 1: acting class, and two weeks into it, the guy said,
Speaker 1: can you stay for a minute. So yeah, he said,
Speaker 1: you should drop out? Why I love me drop bad?
Speaker 1: He said, you're not You're not getting up, you're not working.
Speaker 1: You can't just watch. So he gives me a monologue
Speaker 1: from your good man Charlie Brown, and it's when Snoogy
Speaker 1: goes up to fight the Red Barren. He should come
Speaker 1: back with this next week. Don't come back. And so
Speaker 1: I did. And I came back, and I was scared
Speaker 1: the ship out of me. But I had a great time,
Speaker 1: and I felt like, you know, I wanted to work
Speaker 1: further into this fire. Then I got into this play
Speaker 1: and then I started taking classes and when I transferred
Speaker 1: the writer they had a really great little field apartment
Speaker 1: there and they were right down the street from the Carter,
Speaker 1: which is where I would do this internship. The following year,
Speaker 1: my senior year. Um, it was in this melodrama called
Speaker 1: Deadwood Dick and who wrote that idea? Because from like
Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties or something. I played the sheriff and
Speaker 1: it was bigger than life and I popped my arms.
Speaker 1: Where did you do that? Where? At Fox County Community College?
Speaker 1: I was terrified, but there was something there for me.
Speaker 1: I knew there was something there for me. I had
Speaker 1: no idea what was there for you? What? There was
Speaker 1: a sense of purpose and there was a sense of
Speaker 1: kind of just an approval. It's like you could get
Speaker 1: this putty in yeah exactly. Yeah. And also the thing
Speaker 1: too that that you get from the military and I'm
Speaker 1: just thinking of this now, but from the military and
Speaker 1: theater film people is you have a community. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a very specific community and it has its own language.
Speaker 1: You're part you're you're part of a society. You get
Speaker 1: into a society where there are rules and beliefs. I
Speaker 1: don't want to say it's a religion, but it's rules
Speaker 1: and beliefs and language and codes and references that are
Speaker 1: just unique. But you're in a world where you know
Speaker 1: the passion runs pretty deep. You walk out a writer
Speaker 1: with a degree in theater. Yes, And where do you go?
Speaker 1: New York? I moved to New York and I don't
Speaker 1: know anybody. Where do you live? Well, my first apartment
Speaker 1: was on the Upper west Side. It was between Giverside
Speaker 1: and West End, and when it was a dodge city days,
Speaker 1: I called it the wild Wild West. Oh yeah, wild
Speaker 1: West May. So you're there on the Upper west Side,
Speaker 1: And do you tell yourself, I'm going after this professional thing?
Speaker 1: Where you were because you sound unsure about a lot
Speaker 1: of things in your alive Yeah, did you have the
Speaker 1: confidence to turn pro? Now? I worked in restaurants. I
Speaker 1: worked in restaurants for for almost four years, and I
Speaker 1: started having nightmares about the war and it was like freaky.
Speaker 1: It was like it was like if you touched the
Speaker 1: stove and it was hot, and six months later you
Speaker 1: feel your hand burn. It was like that kind of
Speaker 1: like I didn't know what to do with it. A
Speaker 1: pure PTSD exactly, but it was, but they didn't have
Speaker 1: the name for it yet. So I did go to
Speaker 1: the v A and when I got to the front
Speaker 1: entrance when it was located on twenty three Street, I
Speaker 1: threw up and I thought, I'm not supposed to be here.
Speaker 1: That's what that means. Ended up working with this guy,
Speaker 1: Larry Stern. He was a psychoanalyst and he really angel
Speaker 1: the box among us. He was the one who really
Speaker 1: get out of the hole that I was thinking and
Speaker 1: at the time, as it was drinking too much and
Speaker 1: it was just a it was at sober every here.
Speaker 1: Uh see, I stopped on my own and eighty five
Speaker 1: got into a recovery program, and the recovery program and so, um,
Speaker 1: you're in the city, and uh, when you're riverside the
Speaker 1: wild wild West, And when does the actor's studio become
Speaker 1: an avenue for you? Oh? Not until Um I was
Speaker 1: really putting my nose in the grindstone when I met you.
Speaker 1: Did a little bit that little little student thing. When
Speaker 1: I got my first job on a soap opera in
Speaker 1: New York, they would put you in the show very sparingly.
Speaker 1: They wanted to kind of build you into the show
Speaker 1: so you didn't have much to do, so I worked
Speaker 1: maybe a day. I mean if I worked two days
Speaker 1: a week, it was it was epic and they paid
Speaker 1: you per show. And I went and did a play
Speaker 1: Summer Tree, a young guy whose family were pretty well
Speaker 1: to do. They would produce him in these plays, and
Speaker 1: I played, you know, the event, like the kid would
Speaker 1: go into war and I would play the soldier I
Speaker 1: would play. I played all the other ancillary characters in
Speaker 1: these little bursts. So I do the play, and then
Speaker 1: I would go to the student Film Bulletin Board at
Speaker 1: n y U and they have casting cards put up
Speaker 1: on the index cards wanted and I would read them.
Speaker 1: And I ended up in a bar in Brooklyn with
Speaker 1: you because while I was doing the soap right and
Speaker 1: we shot that agend and the bar was closed. And
Speaker 1: that's crazy fucking movie about who You were an alien?
Speaker 1: Or I was an alien? Who was the alien? Oh? No,
Speaker 1: I mean I I just played it. I just played
Speaker 1: a pretty weird guy with a spider on my cheek
Speaker 1: or something. I think you were the alien. I think
Speaker 1: the bar Matter of Space and were Bartender was some
Speaker 1: crazy show. But anyway, so um, you get your equity
Speaker 1: card win anyone. I worked in both productions in Central Park.
Speaker 1: How did that happen? Oh? Because uh, I knew no one.
Speaker 1: So I went to the public theater back in like
Speaker 1: December of eighty or thereabouts, and I dropped off a
Speaker 1: picture and resumeas ad the open door policy. And I
Speaker 1: met a woman named Ellen Marshall who worked for Rosemary
Speaker 1: Tishler Stanley soboll Le Novak, and I gave her my
Speaker 1: picture resume. She said, we're not doing generals for at
Speaker 1: least none of the six months. I said, okay, well,
Speaker 1: thank you, and I went back. Of course, six weeks
Speaker 1: later you were here before, right, I said, yeah. She's well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you again, and it's not Gonner six months.
Speaker 1: That's okay. Of course I came back again. I came
Speaker 1: back to March and then she said, and I've been
Speaker 1: polishing up these couple of these good monologues. One was
Speaker 1: a one from Henry five, one was contemporary piece, and
Speaker 1: she um, she says, okay, come back in two weeks,
Speaker 1: call me in two weeks and come in with the
Speaker 1: questional monologue and contemporary. I said, okay, fine, I show up.
Speaker 1: She said, okay, here we are into April. She said,
Speaker 1: now I want you to come in and you're gonna
Speaker 1: audition for the three casting directors. So I commended an
Speaker 1: audition for the three casting directors. Then Standley has me
Speaker 1: come in in audition for des Maconoff for a small
Speaker 1: part and a bunch of fighting stuff in Henry four.
Speaker 1: So I go in for that, and then and the
Speaker 1: call back for that, Elenova came in and watched it,
Speaker 1: and I had no idea that um I got into
Speaker 1: Henry for. And then they called me the next day
Speaker 1: and they said, can you also understudy in the Tempest
Speaker 1: for like Steven Keats and a couple of other actors,
Speaker 1: And I said yeah, like holy shit. So that was
Speaker 1: like the doorway was opening to like start to work
Speaker 1: in the business with great people. And then and then
Speaker 1: the studio becomes an option when not for another few
Speaker 1: years and how does that happen? Well, I did place
Speaker 1: at the at the public I did I did uh
Speaker 1: Hamlet with Diane Vnora that Joe direct I saw you
Speaker 1: in that. Oh that's right, I got you one of
Speaker 1: the posters. I think, Yeah, I love that. Jamie who
Speaker 1: played Forton Brass at the end, Jamie Sheridan, Oh, Proud Death.
Speaker 1: He came in. I loved him. I loved him. I
Speaker 1: love that production. I love Diane Vanora in that part.
Speaker 1: Pat was going to be the first man to cast
Speaker 1: a woman in a major production, and I thought she
Speaker 1: was fantastic. I love it was exciting, excited. There was
Speaker 1: just something about the humanity of it. It was so beautiful.
Speaker 1: But I was in a play with a combination of
Speaker 1: Vetko and the public that Joe and the Scott tom
Speaker 1: Burke put together, so play Tracers came into be Tracers.
Speaker 1: Was we did that. We did that for I think
Speaker 1: eight or nine months there and then we did it
Speaker 1: in London for the Real Court for a couple of months.
Speaker 1: Harvey uh Kitel and de Niro came one night. That's
Speaker 1: what would lead me to the studio. There was a
Speaker 1: guy who had asked me to do a scene with
Speaker 1: him there and they said, oh, we can't have non
Speaker 1: members coming in, and Harvey said, I know this guy.
Speaker 1: Then I worked and at that time, back in those days,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't six. I think the moderators would not they
Speaker 1: wouldn't give you any comments. But then Ellen had taken
Speaker 1: over for Lee to run the place and she gave
Speaker 1: me this kind of I don't know what to call it,
Speaker 1: like a guest status. So I got to do that.
Speaker 1: And then there happened to be a play we're doing.
Speaker 1: We ended up doing Very Child, and she said that's
Speaker 1: going to be your final audition, because I auditioned a
Speaker 1: couple of times for judges and they said very different things,
Speaker 1: and and she said, let's see what you're doing the
Speaker 1: Very Child. And then I got in with Michael O'Keeffe
Speaker 1: a couple other people, and that was and he seven
Speaker 1: tell people in the time we have left, because there's
Speaker 1: so many other things, I want to ask you, describe
Speaker 1: what is Memorial Day about? What's what's the story. It's
Speaker 1: a guy who's on the verge of suicide. He's basically
Speaker 1: going to take himself out. How old viet Non better
Speaker 1: in age, I'm seventy one. He's basically got the gun
Speaker 1: under his chin. And here comes this character I called
Speaker 1: Sister Blister that when he met that first night in Vietnam.
Speaker 1: And here she comes and she's ready to help him.
Speaker 1: She wants him to come over, and he hesitates because
Speaker 1: he's gotten a voicemail from his daughter who's concerned, and
Speaker 1: it breaks his resolve and he freezes and he goes
Speaker 1: into this nether world with her because she wants him
Speaker 1: to be clear about his decision, and they go through
Speaker 1: the scotlet of memories. The play is about remembering. That's
Speaker 1: one of the most important things veterans can do. Remember
Speaker 1: their stories, share their stories, and have the people around them,
Speaker 1: whether they're veterans or non veterans, to be able to listen.
Speaker 1: And was the last time you did it out here
Speaker 1: at the Road Theater? It was perfect and they had projections.
Speaker 1: I'd always wanted to do it with projections because when
Speaker 1: we took it to Vietnam, when I did it over there,
Speaker 1: I did it with their one of their actresses. She
Speaker 1: did it in Vietnamese, her part in Vietnamese. I did
Speaker 1: mine in English. We had what was that like? I thought,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my god. Did you and she
Speaker 1: have a tear in your eye together? A couple of times.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, yes, she I feel it. We had
Speaker 1: two nights and I and they were talkbacks. And when
Speaker 1: I was there as a soldier, she was seven years old,
Speaker 1: and and she had the year before she had done Dollhouse,
Speaker 1: Ibsence Dollhouse. Before that, they did all my sons. When
Speaker 1: they found out I was from the Active Studio, they
Speaker 1: got all excited as well. When they did the stage
Speaker 1: Preasent Tayon was a four hundred seat house. They had screens,
Speaker 1: big screens on both sides with Vietnamese translations for what
Speaker 1: I was saying in English translations for what she was
Speaker 1: saying for sub titles. What year was that, I said,
Speaker 1: We did the play over there in two thousand fourteen.
Speaker 1: What was your first time you'd returned to Vietnam was
Speaker 1: when two thousand twelve you went back to Vietnam for
Speaker 1: the first time in two thousand and twelve. Yeah, for
Speaker 1: what purpose? I went as a veteran because this guy Dr.
Speaker 1: Edward Tick and his organization came and saw the play
Speaker 1: in workshop when Ellen was helping me, Um and uh
Speaker 1: we did. He saw it, he said you should take
Speaker 1: this to Vietnam, and I just thought that was stupid.
Speaker 1: I just said, no, that's I'm not doing that. He said.
Speaker 1: He said, you'd be surprised. The Vietnamese are more curious
Speaker 1: about the American point of view now than than ever before.
Speaker 1: So I went over as a veteran and I met
Speaker 1: the culture ministers. Then In the second trip we set
Speaker 1: up the whole thing, and then the third trip we
Speaker 1: went we went there and h and I just can
Speaker 1: I share one thing? I gotta please, please please. The
Speaker 1: second trip I got away from I was in Hannoy
Speaker 1: and I took a plane down to Chula, the place
Speaker 1: I was telling about before where I was first in country.
Speaker 1: And I was standing on the ground there and um,
Speaker 1: it was right by the ocean, and I had three
Speaker 1: Vietnamese with me, a videographer, driver, and a translator. I said, guys,
Speaker 1: I just need a minute and I just want I
Speaker 1: just wanted to be quiet and still, and I got
Speaker 1: on my knees and there was um this feeling slash
Speaker 1: voice which was of the guys who did not get back,
Speaker 1: and they were saying, we're okay, and so are you.
Speaker 1: And it was from that moment on that's something broken,
Speaker 1: a deeper level where I started to see their humanity,
Speaker 1: their divinity because before that a lot there was a
Speaker 1: lot of white knuckling and I don't trust these people.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't see anything divined in these people.
Speaker 1: Yes there's a lot of beauty here, Yes this this
Speaker 1: and that and the other thing. But that was that was.
Speaker 1: That was a cathartic um moment. That was beautiful. Also,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to mention too, with the whole saga
Speaker 1: with that, with that play Memorial Day and having done
Speaker 1: it in Vietnam in front of the former enemy, and
Speaker 1: then having filmed it and my good friend Robert Duncan
Speaker 1: is putting together. But I think we have are close
Speaker 1: to our final rough cut and so um yeah, we
Speaker 1: want to start to take it out to you know,
Speaker 1: whoever will look at it. So this involves soldiers who
Speaker 1: we turn who you might interact with, if at all
Speaker 1: I'm not assuming you do. But if you interact with men,
Speaker 1: people who see the play, people who have had whatever
Speaker 1: level of PTSD experience themselves, what do you tell them?
Speaker 1: What's your advice to them? And what's your advice to
Speaker 1: and what's your advice to young actors? Okay, so give
Speaker 1: me give me the soldier first. Well, the soldier first
Speaker 1: is uh. I feel that the most important components for
Speaker 1: PTSD recoveries combination, spirituality and community and the bottom line
Speaker 1: too is PTSD. If I think I can handle it
Speaker 1: by myself, it will crush you. Bottom line. Don't be
Speaker 1: ashamed to ask for help, ask for help. That's Brian Dellett.
Speaker 1: He lives in l A today. If you want to
Speaker 1: hear more about the war in Vietnam, take a listen
Speaker 1: to my conversation with Ken Burns and Lynn Novik on
Speaker 1: the making of their ten part documentary about Vietnam. When
Speaker 1: Americans talk about Vietnam, we just talked about ourselves, and
Speaker 1: that what what we needed to do was to triangulate
Speaker 1: with all the other perspectives, not just the enemy. It's
Speaker 1: finding out what the civilians felt, the enemy felt, the
Speaker 1: viet Cong felt, but then our allies, the South Vietnamese
Speaker 1: who get treated like you know what all the time,
Speaker 1: and their civilians and their protesters, as well as all
Speaker 1: the servicemen that we did and everybody all the way
Speaker 1: out to deserters and draft dodgers across the American spectrum.
Speaker 1: And if you then do that, then the kind of
Speaker 1: political dialectic loses its force because you realize that more
Speaker 1: than one truth could obtain at any given moment. The
Speaker 1: rest of that conversation can be found in our archives
Speaker 1: at Here's the Thing dot org. This is Alec Baldwin,
Speaker 1: and you were listening to Here's the Thing as a
Speaker 1: young man, Dick Hughes thought he was going to enter
Speaker 1: the priesthood, but then he transferred to Carnegie Mellon for
Speaker 1: theater and wound up at Boston University for graduate work
Speaker 1: in the same subject. This was the late sixties, the
Speaker 1: Draft was underway. Hughes was a conscientious objector to the
Speaker 1: Vietnam War, but he ended up getting a journalist visa
Speaker 1: and going to Saigon on his own. He found a
Speaker 1: wire service in Vietnam, but his focus became the street kids,
Speaker 1: those making do on the street, hustling, shining shoes and stealing.
Speaker 1: Hughes opened a shelter for these children called the Shoeshine
Speaker 1: Boys Project. This led to a foundation with support from
Speaker 1: people all over the world, including hughes as family and
Speaker 1: friends from his hometown in Pittsburgh. He's from a big family,
Speaker 1: one of seven Catholic family Pittsburgh and lived in Pittsburgh
Speaker 1: right below the Hill Section, after which Debochco named Hill
Speaker 1: Street Blues. Yeah, Irish Catholic family and uh yeah, I
Speaker 1: at one point was looking at the priesthood. Do you
Speaker 1: know why? What was it was the sense of the
Speaker 1: drama of the Catholic church and and and the power
Speaker 1: in a sense that the priest has, you know, all
Speaker 1: of that is kind of attractive. I thought about becoming
Speaker 1: a priest. Yeah, the oldest son of an oldest in
Speaker 1: an Irish Catholic family, it's supposed to become a priest.
Speaker 1: I was told they sold me that idea, but I
Speaker 1: went off into actual drama, another kind of drama. You
Speaker 1: don't go to Vietnam for US until sixty eight. I
Speaker 1: don't go to Vietnam until nineteen sixty seven. So yeah,
Speaker 1: as I was in bought at the graduate school in
Speaker 1: Boston and then the theater Company Boston, Uh, Vietnam became
Speaker 1: so enormous the moral question uh that it was it
Speaker 1: was hard to concentrate on my acting because of that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's when it really started kind of eating
Speaker 1: away at me. And I think in some sense I
Speaker 1: was in a bit of a quiet rage about it,
Speaker 1: in the sense not understanding why we were doing that, uh,
Speaker 1: and seeing things like, uh, the generals shooting that we
Speaker 1: had cong in the head and stuff like that. That
Speaker 1: really uh So at that point I got drafted. So
Speaker 1: then I had to decide in in six s seven,
Speaker 1: you had to decide. But I now decided Okay, I
Speaker 1: think what I'm gonna do is refuse induction and go
Speaker 1: to and you're going to be decided. I was going
Speaker 1: to go to where the center where this was happening. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm going I'm gonna face this head on and I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna do it your way. I did it my way.
Speaker 1: And so I decided to go to Vietnam. I didn't
Speaker 1: know anybody, I had no connections, and I had no money,
Speaker 1: and I didn't tell anybody. Um, and you went there
Speaker 1: to do what I was going to go there just
Speaker 1: to try to do something to help people who were
Speaker 1: affected by the war. Had no idea what it would be.
Speaker 1: I was able because the university newspaper covered my draft
Speaker 1: refusal to get an accreditation from Boston University News and
Speaker 1: go as a quote journalist unquote. I actually did end
Speaker 1: up doing some journalism. I ended up traveling with the
Speaker 1: Marines and the army ended up starting dispatching new stories.
Speaker 1: Who we started our own news agency called Dispatch News,
Speaker 1: which Sihirst broke the Melie story through UH and with
Speaker 1: Asians French press a fp OAR service UH and UH
Speaker 1: and I also UH, you know, I I wanted to
Speaker 1: kind of get into combat and find out if my
Speaker 1: philosophical objections were more than just speculations sitting in Boston,
Speaker 1: and so I kind of thought, I'll go in to
Speaker 1: where the battle is and see. And I wasn't there
Speaker 1: a week when we walked into an ambush and uh
Speaker 1: and I had a corporal beside me, a radio operator
Speaker 1: bleeding from the head and uh. Sergeant goes back under
Speaker 1: all this fire and hands me a cocked forty five
Speaker 1: and says, they're coming up on the rear as soon
Speaker 1: as you see them start firing. And and I'm what's
Speaker 1: wrong with this picture? This is a conscienous objector and
Speaker 1: a foxhole at County End, uh, with people coming up
Speaker 1: in the rear who may kill you. Uh. And I
Speaker 1: A million things go through your head at that time.
Speaker 1: How many other people that you encountered over there were
Speaker 1: like you? Nobody? There no free agents that I encountered. Uh.
Speaker 1: There were some conscients objectors who stayed in the army
Speaker 1: and were UH medics. There were some country objectors with
Speaker 1: the Quaker organizations than men and sing. But I haven't
Speaker 1: yet run into anybody who just packed up and flew
Speaker 1: off to Vietnam. And got into the airport, and when
Speaker 1: the whole place cleared out, said all right, now where
Speaker 1: do I go? Um. I also early on also met
Speaker 1: some of these street children whom shine shoes and made
Speaker 1: the living in the streets. And when I got an apartment,
Speaker 1: I would mention from time to time, you know, a
Speaker 1: few folks want to come down, You're welcome to each
Speaker 1: show or do everyone? It took a while they were
Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but they finally did come down.
Speaker 1: So I was on two tracks. Uh. It was covering
Speaker 1: the war out with the military, and it was starting
Speaker 1: this home for these street kids. After a year, I
Speaker 1: decided to turn this over to some Vietnamese students and friends.
Speaker 1: So I spent the next seven years raising support. Those students,
Speaker 1: brought in other students, opened up eight homes. They helped
Speaker 1: children during the war. You stayed in Vietnam? Yeah, after
Speaker 1: the fall. I stayed about eighteen months after the fall.
Speaker 1: I was I may just be still doing the same thing.
Speaker 1: I was winding down the project. You know, I think I'm,
Speaker 1: if not the I'm one of the last Americans to leave.
Speaker 1: I felt that that there was no reason to evacuate,
Speaker 1: and it was really tragic that so many uh NGEO
Speaker 1: voluntary agencies and charities were evacuating with the remaining military
Speaker 1: and the embassy people. Because I thought, you can't just
Speaker 1: drop a project. Uh And in August of seventy six,
Speaker 1: I came back to New York to close the foundation
Speaker 1: down and go back to acting. Finally, that's that was
Speaker 1: the plan. I was sitting there saying, I mean, I
Speaker 1: have this image of you having tea in some cafe
Speaker 1: and sagon and you're reading variety. Uh No. I always
Speaker 1: had in the back of my mind, I gotta get
Speaker 1: this done. I gotta get this done. I want to
Speaker 1: be an actor. I love acting. I didn't do any
Speaker 1: of it over there. I didn't do acting over the
Speaker 1: acting school over there. No, because you know, I was going,
Speaker 1: I'm like a doctor in the emergency room. We were
Speaker 1: going seven. We were in mortuaries and hospitals, and you know,
Speaker 1: there was no there was never a day off. There's
Speaker 1: never a vacation, and there was never uh cercease in
Speaker 1: the tension that was there. It was it was racing,
Speaker 1: racing against time through the whole thing, and those are
Speaker 1: connections that are forever. And so I kept in contact
Speaker 1: with sending a little money to help people from where
Speaker 1: I could that human rights thing, uh, you know that
Speaker 1: to get those two guys out. And then in two
Speaker 1: thousand and five, coming across Philip Jones Griffith's Agent Orange
Speaker 1: book and saying, you know, the last thing I need
Speaker 1: is another Vietnam humanitarian thing. But the pictures are so graphic.
Speaker 1: So when you when you described to me when you
Speaker 1: first came across this book, this is uh one of
Speaker 1: the best photo of journalists, uh, in the came of
Speaker 1: this that you gave me, Yes, Philip Jones Griffiths. It's
Speaker 1: called Agan Orange Collateral Damage in Vietnam. Philip covered the
Speaker 1: war and a lot of his photos are used over
Speaker 1: and over, iconic photos, uh that you see from time
Speaker 1: to time. But then he went back after the war
Speaker 1: many times and he went to villages where Agent Orange
Speaker 1: had been sprayed and where people had been horribly deformed
Speaker 1: and affected illnesses by it. And he came out with
Speaker 1: a book that has just dedicated to Agent Orange, the
Speaker 1: Collateral Damage, and to meet him. I knew Philip very
Speaker 1: well from from he came to the shoeshine boy house,
Speaker 1: so I knew him over there. He was a good friend. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's the work now. Well, the effort is to get
Speaker 1: I want to jump start serious aid to some three
Speaker 1: million victims in Vietnam through the US Congress. Uh, we've
Speaker 1: had some success with that, but Agian Orange is like
Speaker 1: below the radar. No president from ford On ever put
Speaker 1: Agent Orange in the budget. None Democratic Republican. You have
Speaker 1: soldiers on each side of the war in Vietnam who
Speaker 1: had healthy children before they went go to the battle
Speaker 1: fight where it's sprayed. They come back, they have one
Speaker 1: too horrific bursts and they go, yeah, that's kind of anecdotal,
Speaker 1: you know. I think what they have to do is
Speaker 1: get damage done to their own d DNA materials. Uh.
Speaker 1: They are in denial about it, but it's not because
Speaker 1: it's political. It's just a kind of lethargy of the bureaucracy.
Speaker 1: And I also I think people who are just new
Speaker 1: to it feel it's just one more thing. They can't
Speaker 1: make any difference about what can I do? Defects as
Speaker 1: a result of dox and still being born of absolutely
Speaker 1: to this day, dioxin is so lethal. Little parts of
Speaker 1: it are can wreak havoc and dioction doesn't go away,
Speaker 1: it stays and it's in the soil, etcetera. And people
Speaker 1: think that a in Orange is past history, and you say, no,
Speaker 1: it's right now and it's a million victims. Now when
Speaker 1: you came back here, you came back where to New York?
Speaker 1: To New York? How would New York changed? New York
Speaker 1: was dense full of people. Uh, they didn't talk to
Speaker 1: each other on elevators like they did in Vietnam. Nobody
Speaker 1: held hands or touched each other. That was a little
Speaker 1: bit of a cultural adjustment. Uh. But um, yeah, I
Speaker 1: was so I was on two tracks. They're closing down
Speaker 1: the foundation and going back into acting. When you come back,
Speaker 1: how would you changed from being over there? Um? You
Speaker 1: know what? I think one of the biggest changes I experienced,
Speaker 1: especially it came out of combat. Um, Before I went
Speaker 1: and I saw things like I mentioned the general Sagan
Speaker 1: General shooting the Vietcong soldier in the head, that famous photo.
Speaker 1: I jumped right out of my seat at that time,
Speaker 1: and I thought, how could we be doing this? How
Speaker 1: could we be involved that this? But what I learned
Speaker 1: in combat was, uh, my darker side. I learned that
Speaker 1: I too, under certain circumstances, could be capable of the
Speaker 1: same thing. So I think what I got an education
Speaker 1: is a more rounded sense of what human beings are
Speaker 1: and how I could employ that in drama. That's why
Speaker 1: I love drama so much, because I think it can
Speaker 1: articulate almost what can't be quote articulated unquote people considered
Speaker 1: a drama and go yes, yes, without saying exactly what
Speaker 1: it is. And to me, that helps avoid wars, that
Speaker 1: helps humans grow. So I I actually saw theater in
Speaker 1: just as sacred or as just as profound a sense
Speaker 1: as I did the acting work, as I'm sorry, the
Speaker 1: social work that I was doing in Vietnam. I felt
Speaker 1: it was as important you saw your darker side. Do
Speaker 1: you want to articulate that more? Meaning you're not talking
Speaker 1: about like me? Lie, you didn't think I'm capable of anything? Oh,
Speaker 1: I think human beings are. No. I am capable depending
Speaker 1: on the circumstances, depending on being pushed to it. I
Speaker 1: think that's what dramas about. You know, you know this, Uh,
Speaker 1: when you're playing a character who's up to something reprehensible,
Speaker 1: you play them on their terms. You know, you have
Speaker 1: to justify why they do that. And I think people
Speaker 1: who who are are toying with the darker side, are
Speaker 1: justifying it in some respects uh. And to me, that's
Speaker 1: as much a part of the human soul as uh
Speaker 1: the some of the brighter side of it. When you
Speaker 1: get a sense of that, you have that capability to
Speaker 1: do that, you're less about judging other people and you're
Speaker 1: more about I just got to use all my time
Speaker 1: two in this case for me, uh, presenting theater in
Speaker 1: a sense that will help educate people and answer questions
Speaker 1: that are out of the context of black and white
Speaker 1: or or debates back and forth the Because you've dedicated
Speaker 1: so much of your life to theater, to acting, uh,
Speaker 1: in and around your relief work and your advocacy work,
Speaker 1: have you ever thought about writing a play? I have
Speaker 1: a real experiences I have about the shoeshine boys and
Speaker 1: about young Dick Hughes arriving there, And um, I don't
Speaker 1: know who would play young Dick Hughes. I could get
Speaker 1: a little makeup down, and we want to sell some tickets,
Speaker 1: so look at the right guy to play the young
Speaker 1: And I think do a kind of documentary, uh, because
Speaker 1: we have a lot of film footage and stuff like
Speaker 1: that that would show how to work in another country
Speaker 1: and do it effectively. That's one thing. The Uh when
Speaker 1: you come back? Um, and uh is it safe to
Speaker 1: say that acting is the is your primary focus when
Speaker 1: you come back and what you want to get back
Speaker 1: to that and you want to give that everything you've got?
Speaker 1: And is it a case where you have this lingering
Speaker 1: empathy for what happened back there and you're haunted by
Speaker 1: what you saw? Have stopped me if I'm getting too dramatic,
Speaker 1: But but but when it's like the Godfather Part three line, Uh,
Speaker 1: they keep pulling me back in, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: the Pacino line meaning to go there and you want
Speaker 1: to Are you done with that? No? I think here's
Speaker 1: the funny thing about that. It makes a huge It's
Speaker 1: it's forever there and those are connections that are forever.
Speaker 1: And so I kept in contact with sending a little
Speaker 1: money to help people from where I could. So it
Speaker 1: was I always had a sense of being pulled again,
Speaker 1: you know, to tide, dragging me kind of back in,
Speaker 1: but acting still being the first priority. But interestingly enough,
Speaker 1: I made three post war trips two thousand one, two
Speaker 1: thousand eight, and two thousand sixteen. And when I went
Speaker 1: and I when I left Vietnam. There was nothing emotional
Speaker 1: much about it when I got on the plane and left,
Speaker 1: which I thought was kind of odd making that break.
Speaker 1: But the first trip back UH, some of the grown
Speaker 1: street kids and their families and other friends who worked
Speaker 1: with me UH set up visits, all reunions and kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, and we went to the airport. They had
Speaker 1: all taken a day off they couldn't afford. And as
Speaker 1: I went up into the section transition section, transit section,
Speaker 1: they were all waving goodbye. And I got on the
Speaker 1: plane and I sobbed all the way to Hannoy, and
Speaker 1: I thought why, And then I realized what had happened
Speaker 1: was I had gone over there, giving up everything, my job,
Speaker 1: I had no money with girlfriend, my family, hadn't even
Speaker 1: told my family. I was going with this idea, I
Speaker 1: am going to do something about this goddamn war. And
Speaker 1: I came back and it wasn't until I returned again
Speaker 1: in two thousand one that I saw that their lives
Speaker 1: they'd made it. So the odd thing about it was
Speaker 1: that that promised to myself and sixty eight was not
Speaker 1: resolved until that two thousand and one of seeing them
Speaker 1: healed and survived and healed, and that my effort in
Speaker 1: that respect was over. Dick Hughes, actor, writer, founder of
Speaker 1: the Shoeshine Boys project. This is Alec Baldwin and you
Speaker 1: were listening to Here's the Thing four