1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World, A significant realignment has 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: recently occurred in public education. The focus has shifted to 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: value data and funding over students and futures. In his 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: new book, Failure Factory, Chrisphaps highlights this transition by exposing 5 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: now academic outcomes are manipulated while students are promoted through 6 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: the grade levels without receiving the education they need. When 7 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: students fail classes, their grades are often changed to passing. 8 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: If schools appear dangerous, arrest and suspensions are no longer recorded, 9 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: their graduation rates decline, academic metrics are adjusted, making it 10 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: easier to receive a diploma. What's happening in Baltimore schools 11 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: is not unique, it is ubiquitous. The new educational mindset, 12 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: which prioritizes data over students and funding over futures, is 13 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: quickly spreading across the country, with equally dire consequences for 14 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: local communities. Here to discuss his new book, I'm really 15 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: pleased to welcome my guest, one of the real champions 16 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: and a man who has methodically worked in a focus 17 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: way for years. Chris Papst is Sinclair's Fox forty five 18 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: project Baltimore lead investigative reporter. He is a national Emmy 19 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: Award winning investigative reporter in the twenty twenty three Maryland 20 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: State Conference and WACP Vanguard Award recipient. Chris, Welcome and 21 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: thank you for joining me again on News World. 22 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 2: Mister speaker, thank you. I appreciate you having me on 23 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: and supporting this book. 24 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: In this work, I think what you're doing is amazing. 25 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about Project Baltimore, which has 26 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: become I think one of the most impactful local reporting 27 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: initiatives in the entire country. How did Fox forty five 28 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: decide to launch it and what was your original vision 29 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: for the project? 30 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: So is twenty seventeen and I was an investigative reporter 31 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 2: working for WJLA, which is the ABC News affiliate in Washington, DC, 32 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 2: and the ownership of Sinclair had this idea of creating 33 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 2: a five person unit to only investigate public education. And 34 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 2: the reason that they chose public education is because nothing 35 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: seemed to make any sense. So if you look at 36 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 2: census data, you have a bunch of federal data that 37 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: you can look at and you can see that for 38 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: years and decades, Baltimore City Public Schools was one of 39 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 2: the most funded large school systems in America, but yet 40 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 2: it was also one of the lowest performing. So how 41 00:02:55,280 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 2: are we pumping billions of dollars into the school system 42 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 2: and the student outcomes are simply atrocious? So to talk 43 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 2: about what was happening right now? Twenty twenty four, which 44 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 2: is the most recent full school year for which we 45 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: have data because it generally lags a year. In twenty 46 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 2: twenty four, Baltimore City Schools had a one point seven 47 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: billion dollar budget and ten percent of the students who 48 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 2: were tested scored proficient in math. Ninety percent of the 49 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 2: kids in this school system were not proficient in math, 50 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 2: and taxpayers are giving the school system one point seven 51 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 2: billion dollars. How can that happen? Why is that allowed 52 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: to happen? Why are people in Baltimore City, specifically the 53 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: public officials, the mayor of the governor, city council, why 54 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 2: are they not screaming about the failed academic outcomes in 55 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: Baltimore City Public schools. Now, to go back to twenty seventeen, 56 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: eight years ago, it was the same exact situation. At 57 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: that point, there was one point three billion dollars that 58 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 2: was getting put into the school system, and the math 59 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 2: proficiencies were eleven percent. So you look over the past 60 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: eight years and you're seeing an increase in the amount 61 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: of money going to the school system from one point 62 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 2: three to one point seven billion dollars a year. So 63 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 2: the school system is getting four hundred million more dollars 64 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 2: a year, and they outcomes are nearly identical, if not 65 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 2: worse than they were eight years ago. That was the 66 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: intent of Project Baltimore to simply ask the question, how 67 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: do we continue to do the same thing over and 68 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 2: over again and it's leading to all the problems that 69 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 2: you're seeing in Baltimore. We're seeing President Trump right now 70 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 2: talking about sending troops into Baltimore to quell the violence 71 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 2: and the crime. And mister speaker, I would contend the 72 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 2: violence in crime is not the problem. It's a symptom 73 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: of the problem. The problem is that the kids in 74 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 2: the school system for decades have not been getting the 75 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 2: proper education. They don't have the English language arts proficiencies, 76 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: they don't have the math proficiencies, and they cannot properly 77 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 2: support their families. The school system is the problem. 78 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: Why is the school system so unwilling to modify and 79 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,119 Speaker 1: change in response to this kind of data. 80 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 2: Well, when I first started Project Baltimore in twenty seventeen, 81 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 2: a lot of people had said to me, as you 82 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 2: start investigating this, what you're going to find out is 83 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 2: that the intent of the school system, the priority of 84 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: the school system is not to educate students. The priority 85 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 2: is to employ adults. And when I first heard that 86 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 2: back in twenty seventeen, I went to public schools, my 87 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 2: kids go to public schools. I didn't want to believe that. 88 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 2: It was hard for me to want to think that 89 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: a school system's priority is not the kids but rather 90 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 2: the adults. But eight years later, as we sit here 91 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five, and as I write this book, 92 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 2: Failure Factory, I think that that is the case. I 93 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 2: think that when you look at situations like what you're 94 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 2: seeing in Baltimore City, you see that the priority is 95 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 2: not necessarily educating the kids. And I'll give you a 96 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 2: data example for why that appears to be true in 97 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 2: many people's eyes. We have a school system in Baltimore 98 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 2: City that over eight years, has lost sixty five hundred 99 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 2: students in the enrollment. However, there's about thirteen hundred more 100 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 2: employees that are working in the school system. So you 101 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: have more employees and more money to educate fewer students, 102 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 2: and most of the academic outcomes are going in the 103 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: wrong direction. And when you see something like that, and 104 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 2: this is not a one year or two year snapshot, 105 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 2: this is an eight year snapshot, you have to look 106 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 2: at that and think to yourself, well, this is just 107 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 2: the intent. If it weren't the intent, it wouldn't be 108 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: that way. You would see that the additional money, you 109 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 2: would see that the additional employees would create better outcomes 110 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 2: for the students. But they're not. It's going in the 111 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 2: opposite direction. And then there's no accountability. There is nobody 112 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 2: in this school system. There is nobody who's a public 113 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: official representing Baltimore City that is saying this is not acceptable. 114 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 2: These numbers don't make sense. Why are ten percent of 115 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,119 Speaker 2: our kids proficient in math when we have thirteen hundred 116 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: additional employees over the past eight years. What are those 117 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 2: employees doing. Why are the students not achieving more? And 118 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: to go back to your original question, it's because the 119 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: school system appears to have been valuing the number of 120 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 2: adults that they are employing, and those adults making very 121 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 2: healthy salaries over the education of the students in the 122 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 2: school system. 123 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: When you talk to them, if you're one of these 124 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: adults and you are being paid to preside over abject failure, 125 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: I mean, how do you cope with that? How do 126 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: you explain it to yourself? 127 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: Many of them come to me and they explain it 128 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: to me. What I'm telling you is not necessarily my words. 129 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: What I'm telling you are the words of the people 130 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 2: that I've interviewed inside Baltimore City schools, high level administrators, teachers, 131 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: the people that are working in the system. This is 132 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: what they're telling me. And I think that a majority 133 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 2: of the people in that school system are good, honest, 134 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 2: hardworking people. But when they come to me, they want 135 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: to be anonymous. They don't want to give their names 136 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 2: because they don't want to lose their jobs. And we 137 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: have seen that when people inside the school system hold 138 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 2: the school system accountable by publicly going to the media 139 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: or publicly going on social media or sites like that, 140 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: there is retribution against them because there's a lot of money, 141 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 2: mister speaker, this is one point seven billion dollars and 142 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 2: people want part of that money. We can see over 143 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 2: the eight years, and I have this data in Failure 144 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 2: Factory that director level positions in Baltimore City Public schools. 145 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 2: In those eight years, the salary has increased by twenty 146 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 2: one percent. Ten percent of students are proficient in math. 147 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 2: You look at administrative positions, they've increased by twenty percent 148 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 2: of their salaries and there's many more of them. As 149 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 2: the school system is decreasing in enrollment, it's adding administrators, 150 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 2: is adding director level positions. And all of these positions 151 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: are six figure salaries where people are making a lot 152 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 2: of money. So the people inside the school system that 153 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 2: get the pensions, that get those six figure salaries, they 154 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 2: don't want to lose them. And I understand that as 155 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: someone who has a family, I get it you don't 156 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 2: want to lose them. But somebody outside of that system 157 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 2: has to hold them accountable and say, if you're going 158 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 2: to get this money and we're going to hire all 159 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 2: these people, we better have better student outcomes. And that 160 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 2: part is not what's happening. And that's why I wrote 161 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 2: Failure Factory, because people need to know what's going on, 162 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: especially in these large urban school systems, because of that mindset. 163 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: I can see it in Maryland that mindset is seeping 164 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 2: out into the counties, and it's seeping out into the 165 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 2: rural areas of America. 166 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: Part of what I'm struck by is that rather than 167 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: trying to fix it, they just tried to cover it up. 168 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: You indicate that there's an Inspector General report that more 169 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: than twelve thousand failing grades were improperly changed. They simply 170 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: gave them better grades so they would look better, even 171 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: though they couldn't do anything. Yeah. 172 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 2: So one of the administrators, high level administrators in North 173 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 2: Avenue and North Avenue is the administrative building for Baltimore 174 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 2: City Public Schools colloquially is called North Avenue. A high 175 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 2: level administrator told me that the school system is prioritizing data, 176 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: like you had mentioned in the open to this podcast, 177 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 2: they're prioritizing the data over the success of the students. 178 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 2: And what that means is when students aren't passing, we 179 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 2: have seen and we know that, they simply change the 180 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 2: failing grades to passing. So why would they do that. 181 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 2: They do that because it increases the pass rate at 182 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 2: the schools. Because if you have a pass rate that 183 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: is low, there's a higher chance for these students to 184 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 2: be dropping out. And when a student drops out, the 185 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 2: school system no longer gets the funding for that student 186 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 2: because funding levels are based on a per pupil basis. 187 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: So the whole thing wraps around data equaling money. And 188 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 2: if you can keep these kids enroll and you can 189 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: keep them passing despite if they get the proper education, 190 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 2: the schools keep the money coming in. I spoke with 191 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 2: a teacher who is in this book, who actually gave 192 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 2: us her name, by the way, and doesn't work for 193 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 2: the school system anymore. Coincidentally, she said that the school 194 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 2: systems are not focused on educating kids. They're focused on 195 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 2: passing kids. Get them to the next grade, get them 196 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 2: from second to third grade, get them from eight to 197 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 2: ninth grade. And then we talk to other teachers who 198 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 2: have said, and we know this is true, that Baltimore 199 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 2: City Schools has graduated kids who can't read. You literally 200 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 2: give them a diploma that they cannot read. It sounds 201 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 2: like hyperbole, but that is where the situation actually is. 202 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 2: So how does that happen? How does the kid get 203 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 2: to high school and they can't read. It happens because 204 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 2: you're passing them along because the focus is on passing, 205 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 2: as a teacher said, not educating the students. It's about 206 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 2: the data. 207 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: One of these samples you use is a student who 208 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: in four years earned a grade point average of zero 209 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: point one three. He only passed three classes, but his 210 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: class rank was sixty two out of one twenty. That 211 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: means and that half of his classmate's fifty eight of 212 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: them had a zero point one three grade point average 213 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: or lower. 214 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 2: Yep, that's true. 215 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: I mean he's going to graduate with no ability to 216 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: get a job or hold a job down, or figure 217 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: out how check book or do any of a thousand 218 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: things you have to do in the modern world. How 219 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: do they rationalize it to themselves? 220 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 2: That's why I wrote this book, mister speaker, because I 221 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 2: don't know how do you have a situation like that? 222 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: And that school is still open. There are still hundreds 223 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 2: of kids that go to that school. That school was 224 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 2: Augusta Fells Savage. It's a high school where we found 225 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 2: this student. His mom had come to us because he 226 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 2: was in that school for four years and he was 227 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 2: still a freshman. He was a freshman after four years 228 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: because he had only passed a few classes and he 229 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 2: had a zero point one three GPA, which placed him 230 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 2: in the middle of his class. These are the stories 231 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 2: that are in failure factory. These are the stories that 232 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 2: people need to know because that's real. What are those 233 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 2: other kids supposed to do? As you mentioned, what kind 234 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 2: of jobs can they get? And that's why I go 235 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 2: back to the crime and violence in Baltimore is not 236 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 2: the problem, it's the symptom. The problem is schools like 237 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 2: Augusta Fells. And Augusta Fells is not alone. There are 238 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 2: other schools in Baltimore City that have very similar academic outcomes. 239 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: For these students, they don't go to school, they don't 240 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 2: get an education, but they keep moving their way through 241 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 2: the grades. In the book, we talk about one high 242 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: school where I got some data that is not made public, 243 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 2: but one of the administrators at the school, again a 244 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 2: good person who sees something wrong and wants to blow 245 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: the whistle, had sent me data concerning reading scores of 246 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 2: this school and this high school. Seventy five percent of 247 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 2: the kids we're reading at an elementary school level. I 248 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 2: think it was ten or twenty percent of the kids 249 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 2: we're reading at a first or second grade level. You 250 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 2: hear that and you shake your head and you think, 251 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 2: how can that happen? And that's what failure factory is 252 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: pointing out, how can this happen? And quite frankly, it 253 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 2: happens because it's allowed to Because no one in Baltimore 254 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 2: City is screaming. No public official is screaming for better results. 255 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: Why aren't the parents screaming? They are? 256 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: They come to us in the book, we talk to 257 00:15:55,400 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 2: a lot of parents, and the problem is that you 258 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 2: have a one point seven billion dollar school system that 259 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 2: squashes people. And if you're a mom, you're a single mom, 260 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 2: you have two or three kids, you have two or 261 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 2: three jobs, you make thirty thousand and thirty five thousand 262 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 2: dollars a year. How are you supposed to go up 263 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 2: against a one point seven billion dollar school system that 264 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 2: has extremely well paid attorneys. You can't. You simply can't. 265 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 2: So parents feel powerless, They feel like they don't have 266 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 2: any way to get their message out, and that is 267 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 2: when they call Project Baltimore. And these are the parents 268 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 2: that I speak to in the book that are telling 269 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 2: me that their kids failing grades are being changed to passing. 270 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: They want their student held back to better learn the material, 271 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 2: but the school system passes them anyway. And when they 272 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 2: try to push back, there's only so much they can 273 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 2: do because they don't have the resources, they don't have 274 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 2: the money, they can't hire attorneys, and quite frankly, they're 275 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 2: just trying to survive. They're trying to in a city 276 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 2: that is not giving them the services, specifically the education 277 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 2: that they need. And if I can just make one 278 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 2: more point about the parent situation here. When we started 279 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,959 Speaker 2: Project Baltimore in twenty seventeen, I was of the mindset, 280 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 2: where are the parents, Why aren't the parents doing more? 281 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 2: And eight years later, you know, after we talk about, 282 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 2: you know, writing the book Failure Factory, I don't have 283 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 2: that mindset anymore because I've now spent eight years speaking 284 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 2: to the parents who won something better for their kids. 285 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: But many of these parents went to the same school 286 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 2: system that their kids now go to. And many of 287 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 2: the parents, if not most of them, are also under 288 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 2: educated by this same school system that their kids now 289 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 2: go to. There's a woman in the book, her name's 290 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 2: Michelle Bradley, and she can't read. She made it to 291 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 2: high school in Baltimore City schools, she cannot read, and 292 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 2: now she has two daughters in the school system. How 293 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,239 Speaker 2: is she supposed to help those kids? How is she 294 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 2: supposed to help them with their homework when she herself 295 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 2: went to the school system and she can't read. The 296 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 2: parents are not getting one point seven billion dollars. The 297 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 2: school system is getting one point seven billion dollars. And 298 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 2: that money is not predicated on the conditions of the 299 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 2: students that they leave when they walk into that school 300 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 2: house door. That money is intended to educate every child, 301 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 2: no matter their home environment, and if the school systems 302 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 2: cannot educate them, the school system should perhaps give the 303 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 2: money back. But that part never happens. The schools get 304 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 2: the money, the kids go into the school, they don't 305 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 2: get an education, and it's just year in and year 306 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 2: out of the same thing, over and over again. 307 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: I remember years ago when Governor came into Jersey took 308 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: over the Newark school system and put it into state receivership. 309 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: Why have the governors and the state governments not responded 310 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: to this clearly dysfunctional and destructive school system. 311 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 2: That is an outstanding question, and it also goes back 312 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 2: to why I wrote this book, Failure Factory. I cannot 313 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 2: get answers. What you get is from many of the 314 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 2: elected officials that are in this city is you get 315 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 2: historical underfunding. You get redlining, you get racism, you get 316 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 2: white flight, you get all these reasons for why the 317 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 2: school system is not progressing and why the students are 318 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 2: not achieving. What you don't get is an actual answer, 319 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 2: and you don't often get school systems that are being 320 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 2: held accountable by the officials that are there to give 321 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 2: the school system money and then make sure that the 322 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 2: money is spent appropriately. Let me give you this little 323 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 2: titive information. The only Republican that has any jurisdiction at 324 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 2: all over Baltimore City is President Trump and then Vice 325 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: President JD. 326 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: Vance. 327 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 2: The two state senators in Maryland that have jurisdiction over 328 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 2: Baltimore City are Democrats. Every US House and representative member 329 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 2: that has jurisdiction in Baltimore is a Democrat. The governor, 330 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 2: every state level position Democrat. Every state House and state 331 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 2: senator that has jurisdiction over Baltimore is a Democrat. Every 332 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 2: elected local official in Baltimore City is a Democrat. So 333 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 2: what you have here is complete one party rule. The 334 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 2: only Republican that has anything any jurisdiction at all over 335 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 2: Baltimore is President Trump. So it's kind of like an 336 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: echo chamber. I go to the governor he's a Democrat. 337 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 2: I go to the comptroller, he's a Democrat, the mayor, 338 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 2: the president of city Council. I go to Angel also Brooks, 339 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 2: I go to Chris van holl and the two senators. 340 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 2: They're all Democrats, and they all say the same thing. 341 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 2: They point to the same issues of why the school 342 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 2: system isn't doing better, and it's just the same thing 343 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 2: every year in and year out, despite the data that 344 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 2: we report that we're talking about right now. 345 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: So there's talk that your current governor, Wes Moore, is 346 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: a potential candidate for president. I would think that what 347 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: you're describing in your book becomes an unbelievable liability for him. 348 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: How does he explain this? 349 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 2: I think he's going to explain it the way that 350 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 2: I just explained it. He's going to talk about historical racism. 351 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 2: He's going to talk about underfunding. He's going to talk 352 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 2: about redlining, he's going to talk about white right. 353 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: How do you with a straight face take the third 354 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: or fourth most expensive school district in the country and 355 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: explain that it's a function of underfunding. 356 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 2: They're going to say, and this is what they do, 357 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,959 Speaker 2: say that if you look at the sixties, the seventies, 358 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 2: the eighties, the nineties. Now you're right. For the pasts, 359 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 2: I'm going to say fifteen to twenty years, Baltimore City 360 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 2: has been one of the most funded school systems in America. 361 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 2: I don't know what the funding looks like prior to that, 362 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 2: because the data that I'm getting is US Census data, 363 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 2: is federal data. But they're going to say that it's 364 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 2: historically underfunded, even though that historical underfunding was generations ago. 365 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 2: That is their argument for why the school system isn't 366 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 2: doing better now. However, for the past ten years, Baltimore 367 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 2: City has been in the top five. It's one of 368 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 2: the top five most funded school systems in America. And 369 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 2: we've already gone over the results. 370 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things you mentioned, which I've 371 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: always been fascinated by is the existence of what are 372 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: basically ghost students. I think this is a fascinating example 373 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: of the found dishonesty of the system. 374 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 2: So the way that schools are funded in Baltimore and 375 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 2: throughout America is that you get money based on the 376 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 2: number of students who are enrolled, and if you have 377 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,479 Speaker 2: more students who are enrolled, you get more money. And 378 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 2: over the eight years that we've been doing Project Baltimore, 379 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 2: and this is one of the bigger themes in the 380 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 2: book is that the school system in many instances inflates 381 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 2: their enrollment to get more money. Now we know this 382 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 2: is happening. This is not anecdotal. We absolutely know this happening. 383 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 2: We first broke this story probably about four years ago 384 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 2: that there was a school that had students that were 385 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 2: enrolled in the school for two or three years that 386 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 2: were not attending the school. We had administrators inside of 387 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,199 Speaker 2: that school that were anonymous, of course didn't want to 388 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 2: come forward, but they were leaking the information about students 389 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 2: in that school that were not actually there, and they 390 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 2: gave me their addresses. So we went out one day 391 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 2: when we started knocking on doors and we were asking 392 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 2: them when was the last time that you were in 393 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 2: Baltimore City schools? And they would say two years, three years, 394 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 2: And I'm like, you're enrolled. Who's enrolling you? And they 395 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 2: would look at the data because I had their transcripts. 396 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 2: The transcripts were being given to me and they would say, 397 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 2: I don't know who's enrolling me. It's not me, mister speaker. 398 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: I found a student who was in jail and enrolled 399 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 2: in Baltimore City Public schools. He got out of jail. 400 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 2: I went and found him and I spoke with him, 401 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 2: and I said, where have you been? He goes, I 402 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 2: was incarcerated. He was dealing drugs, and I was like, 403 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 2: have you been to school? He goes, I haven't been 404 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 2: to school since twenty seventeen, twenty seventeen, and somebody was 405 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 2: enrolling him, getting sixteen seventeen, eighteen thousand dollars a year 406 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: from taxpayers to educate a student who is in jail. 407 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 2: Now you want to talk about taxpayer abuse. Taxpayers are 408 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 2: funding this person in jail, and they're also funding this 409 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 2: person to be educated in a school that they're not at. 410 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: I mean, isn't it just playing fraud? 411 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 2: I don't understand how no one has been charged criminally 412 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 2: for this. 413 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: I don't know what percent of the school's funding is federal, 414 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: but I suspect there's a direct federal interest in this 415 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: money being paid out for things that aren't happening, which 416 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:30,199 Speaker 1: is just playing fraud. 417 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 2: It's between eight and ten percent, So eight and ten 418 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 2: percent of Baltimore City Schools funding is federal moneies. 419 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: And then the rest of us is being funded by 420 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: the people of Baltimore and Maryland, so they also have 421 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: a fraud claim. Now you have really been courageous and 422 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: determined and very smart and walk us through this. You 423 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: end up in this amazing court case where the school 424 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: district basically at one point just rejects the judge's orders. 425 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: At the end of all this, the judge forces the 426 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: school district to reimb Fox forty five legal fees about 427 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: two hundred thousand dollars by itself. This is a great story, 428 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: So walk us through that. 429 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 2: In twenty seventeen is when I first had teachers coming 430 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 2: to me because that's when we launched, and they were 431 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 2: saying that their grades were being changed and that there 432 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 2: were kids that were graduating who they had failed in 433 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 2: courses required to graduate and they couldn't understand why these 434 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 2: kids were graduating getting diplomas, and it was because their 435 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 2: grades were being changed. So I filed a public records 436 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 2: request with Baltimore City Public Schools, which, as an investigative reporter, 437 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 2: is something that I do and so a lot are 438 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 2: the main functions of my job. And Baltimore City Schools 439 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 2: wrote me back and said, we're not going to give 440 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 2: you anything. And I'm like, what do you mean, You're 441 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 2: not going to give me anything. You're telling me that 442 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 2: emails and internal investigations into grade changing is not public record, 443 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 2: and they're like, we're not giving you anything. And I 444 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 2: was like, all right. So we sued them, and we 445 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 2: went to court and I testified for a few hours 446 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: on the stand in front of Judge Genie Hong, who's 447 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 2: a Baltimore City judge, and she ruled in our favor 448 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 2: on all eight counts that were discussed into lawsuit, and 449 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 2: she said Baltimore City Public Schools willfully and knowingly violated 450 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 2: the law by not handing over the documents that I 451 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 2: had requested. She said that they knew that they were 452 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 2: violating the law by not releasing public documents, but they 453 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 2: did it anyway. She then forced them to pay our 454 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: legal fees fox forty five legal fees of roughly two 455 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars, and then she forced them to hand 456 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 2: over all the documents that we had requested, and it 457 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,239 Speaker 2: turned out that there was a lot more documents than 458 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 2: they had originally told us concerning great changing investigations and 459 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 2: emails from teachers that were begging the school system to 460 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 2: stop changing their grades. And it was because of that 461 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 2: lawsuit and winning that lawsuit that we got a large 462 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 2: amount of the documents in Failure Factory that led to 463 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 2: the creation of Failure Factory because we saw how pervasive 464 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 2: grade changing was in Baltimore City Public Schools. And it again, 465 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 2: it goes back to the data. It goes back to 466 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 2: making the schools look better than they are, to keep 467 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 2: the kids in school, to keep the money train flowing. 468 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 2: That's what this all comes back to. 469 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: How much is the highest paid person in the Baltimore 470 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: school system. 471 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 2: So that is the CEO. Baltimore City Schools does not 472 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 2: have a superintendent. They have a CEO and her total 473 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 2: compensation is five hundred thousand dollars right around there now, 474 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 2: five hundred thousand dollars for ten percent of students who 475 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 2: are proficient in math. And she has been doctor Sony 476 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,479 Speaker 2: Santalisis is her name. She has been the CEO of 477 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 2: Baltimore City Schools the entire eight years that this book 478 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 2: covers everything that we have talked about, mister Speaker on 479 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 2: your podcast, knowingly and willfully breaking the law ghost students 480 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 2: grade changing. All of this stuff happened with the same 481 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 2: person in charge, and that person has one hundred percent 482 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 2: support from the public officials in Baltimore. The mayor fully 483 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 2: supports her, the president of City Council fully supports her. 484 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 2: Every council member, to my knowledge, no one's calling for 485 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 2: her to resign the governor. She's been there for eight 486 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,719 Speaker 2: years total compensation. 487 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: And is that in part just a function of how 488 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: much money the school district has. In the fact that 489 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: it's not rational for the local politicians to take her on. 490 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 2: I think that when you have a one party rule 491 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 2: echo chamber in Baltimore, which we discussed just a few 492 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 2: minutes ago, who's going to break ranks with that? And 493 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 2: you don't see anybody breaking ranks with that. When Governor 494 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 2: Larry Hogan was here, and he was a two term 495 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 2: Republican governor who left three years ago, he did speak 496 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 2: out a lot against Baltimore City Public School, but he 497 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 2: was really the lone voice, and he was a singular 498 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 2: Republican who had jurisdiction over the city. There's no other 499 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 2: Republican that had jurisdiction over the city. He was the 500 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 2: only one, and he spoke out a lot against it, 501 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 2: and he got hammered for it. People called him a racist. 502 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 2: You know what the climate was like three or four 503 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 2: years ago, and he tried. He said a lot of things. 504 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 2: I interview him a lot. He called for criminal investigations, 505 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 2: he called it fraud when the enrollment numbers were being falsified, 506 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 2: but nothing ever came of it. 507 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: One of the things you noted in passing is that 508 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: despite the groundbreaking research he were doing and the investigative reporting, 509 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: the other three TV stations in the Baltimore Sun all 510 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: have sort of avoided this issue. Why do you think that. 511 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 2: Is, Well, the Baltimore Sun is under new ownership now 512 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 2: and they have taken full stake in these issues, so 513 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 2: they have now picked it up. But the Baltimore Sun 514 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 2: under the prior ownership, they ignored it. The television stations 515 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 2: ignored it. And I think that it was a detriment 516 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 2: to certainly the kids in Baltimore City schools that are 517 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 2: being under educated, as a detriment to their parents. But unfortunately, 518 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 2: we live in a very hyper competitive media world, and 519 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 2: a lot of the local television stations and the Baltimore 520 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 2: Sun at the time, they weren't interested in picking up 521 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 2: a story that Fox forty five in Project Baltimore and 522 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 2: Chris PABs were doing, and if you think about it, 523 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 2: it's really hard to wrap your head around that because 524 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 2: when you have inflated enrollment. At one point, mister speaker, 525 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 2: after we had done a number of stories on inflated 526 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 2: enrollment at just one school, Baltimore City Schools had to 527 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 2: refund state taxpayers three hundred and fifty thousand dollars for 528 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 2: students that were enrolled who should not have been enrolled 529 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 2: at one school. They had to give back three hundred 530 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 2: and fifty thousand dollars, and the other media entities in 531 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 2: this town did not cover it because it was instigated 532 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 2: by Fox forty five in Project Baltimore's investigative reporting. It's 533 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 2: stunning really. However, with the Son's new ownership, that has changed, 534 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 2: so there are more media entities now in Baltimore. They're saying, hey, 535 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 2: one point seven billion dollars, ten percent math for efficiencies. 536 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 2: Maybe we should report on this too. 537 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,239 Speaker 1: Look, I think your book is important, not only in 538 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: describing Baltimore, and I think it'll be a major major 539 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: problem for the governor if he decides to run, because 540 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: this book indicates that on his watch, the city of 541 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: Baltimore is just failing and it's failing the children, it's 542 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: failing their future. But in addition, it seems to me 543 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: this book creates a frame of reference for other cities 544 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: and for other investigative reporters, and frankly, for the legislatures 545 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: and the Congress to look at the patterns and habits 546 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: that have grown up because you have bureaucracies who care 547 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: more about the money than they care about the children, 548 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: and they're so powerful in their community that they can't 549 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: be reformed from with them. This is why what President 550 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: Trump's doing is so groundbreaking, because you can't inside Chicago 551 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: take on the Chicago system. It's just too big, too powerful. 552 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: People won't do it. And yet, much like Baltimore, it 553 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: is cheating thousands of people and creating future nightmares for us. 554 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: When we have citizens who can't get a job, can't read, 555 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: can't understand the issues. It's a real challenge. The best 556 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: of my knowledge, you are the most knowledgeable pioneer in 557 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: investigating all this and laying it out. And I think 558 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: that your book Failure Factory. How Baltimore City public schools 559 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: deprive taxpayers and students of the future is literally in 560 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: the tradition of the Great muck rakers in the early 561 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds, and I hope that it will be one 562 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: of the things which triggers an awareness that we have 563 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: to fundamentally rethink our big cities, rethink the machines, rethink 564 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: the teachers' unions, and get back to serving people, having 565 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: them live in safety, having them go to schools that 566 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: actually succeed, and having them in the environments where jobs 567 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: can be created. And Chris, you are, as much as 568 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: any single person in the country, a genuine pioneer and 569 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: developing this and your work, which I know has to 570 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: be exhausting and time consuming, but your work is a 571 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: real contribution to the entire country. 572 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 2: Mister speaker, I'm honored, thank you. 573 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for the work you've done. 574 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for joining me. I look 575 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: forward to having you back in the future. And I'm 576 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: going to do everything I can to help communicate that 577 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: Failure Factory is a vital book describing a phenomenon. It's 578 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 1: not just Baltimore City, but it's around the country, and 579 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 1: it's one of the things weakening America and we have 580 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: to address it. So thank you very much for joining me. 581 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 2: Thank you anytime I'd be happy to come on and 582 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,320 Speaker 2: speak with you. I think that our cities cannot survive 583 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 2: if our school systems are failing. Baltimore City School System 584 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 2: is certainly failing. 585 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Chris Papst. You can get 586 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: a link to buy his new book, Failure Factory on 587 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: our show page at newsworld dot com. Newtworld is produced 588 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: by Gangwish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is 589 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: Guarnsei Sloan and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork 590 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 1: for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks 591 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: to the team at Gangwish three sixty. If you've been 592 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and 593 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: both rate us with five stars and give us a 594 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,720 Speaker 1: review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, 595 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my three freeweekly 596 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,760 Speaker 1: columns at gagwischtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm neute gingrich. 597 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: This is Newtsworld.