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Speaker 1: Burnout is really a result of doing the work that

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Speaker 1: you don't want to be doing. So it's not just

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Speaker 1: a lot of work that's happening or a lot that's

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Speaker 1: expected of you. It's doing things that are expected of

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Speaker 1: you that you don't want to be doing.

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Speaker 2: And so if you can close that gap and really

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Speaker 2: figure out how to offload.

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Speaker 1: The things that you don't want to be doing or

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Speaker 1: the things that are not best suited for you, you

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Speaker 1: can have those tough conversations. You can learn that very

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Speaker 1: hard skill of delegating or learn that hard skill of

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Speaker 1: having the conversation with someone you loved. And once you

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Speaker 1: do that, then you minimize the number of things that

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Speaker 1: are truly burning you out and you can start to

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Speaker 1: whittle that list down.

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Speaker 3: Hey, hey, ba found, Welcome back to the brown Envision podcast.

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Speaker 3: It's your girl, Mandy Money. I am so happy to

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Speaker 3: be back with y'all. If you survived the blizzard to

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Speaker 3: be all blizzards this week, if you're in the Northeast

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Speaker 3: like me, I just hope that you have taken your

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Speaker 3: dose of ibuprofen. Shoveling three feet of snow y'all the way,

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Speaker 3: my back is breaking, my fingers are sore. I just

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Speaker 3: shout out to anybody who's doing their own shoveling, and listen,

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Speaker 3: take a break, take a hot bath, ep some salt.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna need it tonight. And yeah, this was an

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Speaker 3: insane winter storm. I'm so glad that I survived it.

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Speaker 3: And you know how one day can really screw up

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Speaker 3: your entire week. Because of the blizzard, school was closed

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Speaker 3: on Monday. I was home with both my children, by

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Speaker 3: the way, one of whom was getting over a stomach bug.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I've told y'all be a fan,

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Speaker 3: but I'm solo parenting for the next like ten to

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Speaker 3: eleven weeks because Housbay's got a new job he has

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Speaker 3: to do training out of state. I'm solo momming, and

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Speaker 3: I want to talk a little bit about how I

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Speaker 3: prepared for single motherhood being a single I was raised

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Speaker 3: by a single mom for starters, and I've never not

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Speaker 3: appreciated the fact that that must have been the hardest

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Speaker 3: thing my mom ever did in her life. It was

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Speaker 3: four of us, Okay, I know it was the ninety

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Speaker 3: and she could get away with just, you know, saying,

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Speaker 3: don't answer the door. I'll be back at five PM

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Speaker 3: and leaving us alone to our own devices. You know,

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Speaker 3: watching the prices right and drinking from the water hose

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Speaker 3: was like cool in the nineties. It's a little bit

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Speaker 3: different now, but nonetheless extremely challenging. I love you, Mom,

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Speaker 3: thank you for everything. Now for me for the next

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Speaker 3: ten weeks. In a lot of ways, like I think

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Speaker 3: this has forced me to put some systems in place

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Speaker 3: to support me that I probably should have had all along,

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Speaker 3: one of which is more than just once bi weekly

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Speaker 3: house cleaning. So the problem with me in house cleaning

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Speaker 3: is like I have two kids. Our house is not

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Speaker 3: that big. It gets really untidy, and things of just

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Speaker 3: piles of things tend to pile up in weird places

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Speaker 3: throughout the week. I don't necessarily benefit from having a

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Speaker 3: deep clean every couple of weeks or having like a

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Speaker 3: house cleaner come every couple of weeks trying to scrub

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Speaker 3: my floors and surfaces. I need someone to come in

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Speaker 3: and literally fold laundry, put it where it belongs, pick

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Speaker 3: up toys, organize those toys, go to my kitchen counter

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Speaker 3: and find that one place on the counter where just

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Speaker 3: a bunch of junk has piled up, mail and bits

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Speaker 3: of lego and a package and you know, a flyer

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Speaker 3: from school organize that shit and put it away and

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Speaker 3: just clear the clutter. And it really clicked for me

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Speaker 3: when I had to figure out what kind of support

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Speaker 3: I needed. So what I ended up doing was I

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Speaker 3: went to care dot com. And I first, oh, and

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Speaker 3: this is how I found care dot com. I knew

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Speaker 3: about care dot com, of course, I'd always thought of

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Speaker 3: it as a place where you'd find like a nanny

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Speaker 3: or a babysitter. But I was scrolling on TikTok and

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Speaker 3: a mother's helper came up on my page. And she'll

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Speaker 3: do like you know, she'll follow herself around and show

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Speaker 3: you what she does as a mother's helper. I had

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Speaker 3: heard of this concept before. A mother's helper is kind

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Speaker 3: of like a housekeeper, but really it's they're coming into

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Speaker 3: the house to give a hand to whatever the mother needs.

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Speaker 3: And in my case, it's not usually childcare. In my case,

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Speaker 3: I got the kids covered, they're going to school, they're

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Speaker 3: going to daycare, they have activities. I don't need someone

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Speaker 3: to help with the children. I need someone to help

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Speaker 3: with the tidying and the organization and the clutter. And

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Speaker 3: so I went on care dot Com and sure enough,

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Speaker 3: you can search for a mother's helper. And I didn't

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Speaker 3: end up finding one directly through the site. I did

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Speaker 3: find one through She was the sister of someone that

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Speaker 3: I had reached out to who had wasn't available anymore,

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Speaker 3: but like, my sister does this. So I met her

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Speaker 3: and I was very clear in a way excuse me

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Speaker 3: that I haven't been clear with cleaners in the past.

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Speaker 3: I was like, I do not need you scrubbing, you know,

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Speaker 3: deep cleaning, mopping, like you know, cleaning tiles. I really

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Speaker 3: just need surface organization and decluttering. And I don't just

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Speaker 3: need it once a week or every other week. I

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Speaker 3: need someone to come twice a week. And so it's

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Speaker 3: been going on for a couple of weeks now and

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Speaker 3: I am just the stress relief has been immense, tremendous.

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Speaker 3: And have my floors been like my and bleached? And

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Speaker 3: are there dust bunnies in the corner or my molding?

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Speaker 3: Maybe like no, there's not a deep clean that's happening.

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Speaker 3: But the lack of clutter has done so much wonders

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Speaker 3: for my nervous system. I can actually sit in my

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Speaker 3: living room and enjoy a peaceful like twenty minute like break.

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Speaker 3: If I give myself a break during the workday, can

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Speaker 3: read a book. You know, I can do it without

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Speaker 3: seeing out of the corner of my eye the pile

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Speaker 3: of crap that I have to organize. So she's coming

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Speaker 3: three hours per visit twice a week, so six hours,

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Speaker 3: thirty bucks an hour. So it's one hundred and eighty

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Speaker 3: dollars per week, which on a budget level, one hundred

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Speaker 3: and eighty dollars is not a small amount of money. However,

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Speaker 3: as a family of four, it is two trips to

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Speaker 3: a restaurant eating out, which I would say we averaged

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Speaker 3: about two to three times eating out per week as

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Speaker 3: a family. And now the husband's gone, I can run

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Speaker 3: a tight ship no eating out now like we are,

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Speaker 3: it's going to be butter noodles every night and there

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Speaker 3: will be no eating out, and I am pulling back

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Speaker 3: in that regard. I'm also pulling back on the cost

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Speaker 3: of like weekend activities for the kids, So booking play

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Speaker 3: dates where they can like play at someone else's house.

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Speaker 3: You know, they won't be seeing a buela a couple times,

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Speaker 3: you know, like just to get them out of the house.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, so I have invested in that one area,

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Speaker 3: which has been great. I've brought on an extra person

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Speaker 3: to help me out with scheduling the podcast, which has

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Speaker 3: been really helpful. So these are a couple of new

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Speaker 3: systems that I'm putting in place, new supports that I'm

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Speaker 3: putting in place as I'm sort of preparing for single momhood.

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Speaker 3: And I'm also raising a hand and actually letting my community,

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Speaker 3: so my neighbors, my mom friends in my local area,

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Speaker 3: let them know that I'm going through this right now,

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Speaker 3: and I'm figuring out the right way to ask for support.

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Speaker 3: I have had one case where a neighbor kind of

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Speaker 3: popped in to say hello and check on me, and

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Speaker 3: I was like, this is nice, but now I'm hosting you,

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Speaker 3: and I don't need to be hosting nobody. What I

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Speaker 3: could really use is And I waited until after they

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Speaker 3: left to kind of let myself think. I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 3: so what was helpful about that and what could I

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Speaker 3: do differently? And I came up with, like, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to let people know specifically what it is that I need,

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Speaker 3: and specifically what I need right now is someone who

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Speaker 3: can watch the kids, you know, for thirty minutes or

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Speaker 3: an hour so I can go to the grocery store

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Speaker 3: by my damn self, you know, thirty minutes for an

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Speaker 3: hour of childcare so that I can go to the

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Speaker 3: coffee shop and have a sanity break. Someone who can

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Speaker 3: pick you know, my older son up from the bus

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Speaker 3: stop and hang out with him for forty minutes if

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Speaker 3: I'm coming back late from recording the show in the city,

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Speaker 3: you know that kind of That's what I really need

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Speaker 3: help with, is those like entertaining the kid things. So

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Speaker 3: if you're someone who knows a single parent, or you know,

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Speaker 3: you know that someone's doing a lot with their kids

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Speaker 3: and you're wondering how you can support them. From my perspective, it's, hey,

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Speaker 3: can I take your kids to the park for an

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Speaker 3: hour so you can get You can do whatever you want.

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Speaker 3: I'll take the kids to the park for an hour. Ooh,

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Speaker 3: that would just make my whole day, and I know

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Speaker 3: it would make their whole day too. So wish me

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Speaker 3: luck as I continue my single mom journey. I'm pretty

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Speaker 3: damn proud of myself so far. I've had so many

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Speaker 3: obstacles already. Last week was winter break. My youngest son

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Speaker 3: had a bad stomach bug. I thought I was going

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Speaker 3: to have a family member visit me ended up canceling

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Speaker 3: their trip, So I thought I was going to have

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Speaker 3: help that I didn't have, changing my plans. Then this

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Speaker 3: freaking blizzard. School's closed not one but two days. Then

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Speaker 3: my iPhone completely died on me. Has anyone's iPhone just

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Speaker 3: as this is a brand new phone, just black just

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Speaker 3: gave up, just said no, thank you. I choose not

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Speaker 3: to exist anymore. Good luck to you. That happened to

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Speaker 3: me yesterday in the middle of the blizzard too. So

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Speaker 3: if you were going through at sis, if obstacle after

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Speaker 3: obstacles kind of hitting you, these speed bumps, and you're wondering, like,

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Speaker 3: who's up here writing this script, this ridiculous script for

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Speaker 3: my life, Like I could not empathize with you more.

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Speaker 3: We are going to get through it. You're actually doing

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Speaker 3: a wonderful job. It's just one day at a time,

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Speaker 3: one day at a time. Now, in the midst of

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Speaker 3: all this, I still had to put on a show

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Speaker 3: this week. Right, Today's guest is Lovely. I've always wanted

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Speaker 3: to get more time with her, but it's just we're

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Speaker 3: so busy. We're both podcasters, we're both moms, we live

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Speaker 3: in different states, but we finally were able to at

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Speaker 3: least get her back on the show. You may have

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Speaker 3: remembered her. She was a former guest on Brown Ambition

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Speaker 3: a few years back. It's Kirsten Saunders. Kirsten Saunders is

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Speaker 3: the co author of the book Cashing Out, and she's

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Speaker 3: also the co host with her husband Julian, of the

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Speaker 3: Rich and Regular podcast. And she and I have a

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Speaker 3: good old fashioned kiki and a catchup on what it

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Speaker 3: really looks like to walk away from a corporate job

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Speaker 3: and pursue full time self employment as a creator. In

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty six. Kirsten talks about walking away from corporate

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Speaker 3: in February twenty twenty, yes, just a month before the

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Speaker 3: real pandemic hit and everyone was shut down, and what

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Speaker 3: it was like for her, you know, beating her own

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Speaker 3: path as an entrepreneur at that point. And we kind

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Speaker 3: of look back, you know, look ahead six years from

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Speaker 3: where she was at that point. She'll talk about lessons learned,

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Speaker 3: lessons learned. We'll talk about how the message of their book,

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Speaker 3: Julian and Kirsten's book Cashing Out hits different now and

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Speaker 3: actually is more relevant than ever because of the mass

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Speaker 3: layoffs that we're seeing, the uncertainty under you know who's

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Speaker 3: era in leadership, AI chaos, you know everything that's got

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Speaker 3: a lot of women of color rethinking our careers and

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Speaker 3: our finances. She'll share what surprised her most over the

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Speaker 3: past six years of entrepreneurship. We talk about breadwinner fatigue.

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Speaker 3: We talk about what it's like having a partner who

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Speaker 3: works in your same field versus one who doesn't. We

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Speaker 3: go all over the map, y'all, So I really hope

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Speaker 3: that you enjoy this conversation. I hope that you love

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Speaker 3: Kirsten because she's going to be back. She's going to

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Speaker 3: be a Brown Table guest, I believe next week, a

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Speaker 3: couple more times this month. So yeah, the Brown Table

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Speaker 3: is back, and I'm going to have a bunch of

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Speaker 3: different incredible guests for y'all to get to know and

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Speaker 3: to join me here on the podcast. Again. Thank you

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Speaker 3: so much for your support. Take it easy out there,

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Speaker 3: Take care of yourselves. Take the ibuprofen. If you're out

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Speaker 3: there shoveling like I am, make sure you soak in

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Speaker 3: some epsom salt tonight. These bodies are aging beautifully, but

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Speaker 3: they're a little creaky. You know what I mean, So

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Speaker 3: take some extra self care for yourself. And now I

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Speaker 3: will let y'all enjoy my conversation with the wonderful Kirsten Sunders.

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Speaker 3: Heyba fam, Welcome back to the Brown Table. I am

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Speaker 3: joined by the beautiful, the stunning Kirsten Saunders, one half

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Speaker 3: the Rich and Regular podcast, also co author of the

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Speaker 3: Smash Book, Kept, the Smash Book.

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Speaker 2: Book, It Works, Smash Book.

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Speaker 3: The Smash Book. Y'all. The last time Heresen was on

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Speaker 3: the show where she was promoting her book Cashing Out,

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Speaker 3: what she co wrote with her hubby and business partner

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Speaker 3: Julian Saunders. Congratulations on that. It's been a couple of years.

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Speaker 2: It has.

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Speaker 1: It just turned three last year, so it's about three

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Speaker 1: and a half and it's acting like a three and

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Speaker 1: a half year old, like, you know, a little more independent.

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Speaker 2: It sells itself a little bit now.

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Speaker 1: But it's interesting because a lot of the messages that

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Speaker 1: we were writing about and talking about three and a

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Speaker 1: half years ago are now more relevant to a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, and so it's rehashing those emotions. You know,

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Speaker 1: you as an author, you try to move forward and

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh, I'm kind of going back to where

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Speaker 1: I was in twenty twenty when I wrote it, which

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Speaker 1: has been an interesting process.

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Speaker 3: Oh, let's talk about that because of cashing out. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I know you came on the show. We talked a

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Speaker 3: lot about the idea of knowing when to walk away

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Speaker 3: from an employer, and y'all also talk about like the

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Speaker 3: fifteen year career concepts like that. So what about what

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Speaker 3: about today? Is making those themes like more relevant.

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Speaker 1: So when we first started writing the book, which was

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, we were in the middle of the pandemic, Like,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of furloughs, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: job in security, there was a lot of anxiousness, and

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Speaker 1: we were able to kind of use that to both

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Speaker 1: market the book and to write it like it's happening.

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Speaker 1: The thing that we've been talking about is happening at

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Speaker 1: a mass scale, and so as like a psychology for

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Speaker 1: the nation. It felt like we were ready for the message.

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Speaker 1: But of course, you know the literary timeline. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's you write the book and it's two years before

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Speaker 1: it hit shelves. So by the time it had hit

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Speaker 1: shelves in twenty twenty two, things had bounced back, like

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Speaker 1: everybody was in these new jobs. There were all these

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Speaker 1: new DEI roles and opportunities, lots of people who had

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Speaker 1: gotten promoted. We were just in the good times, like

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Speaker 1: there was the Great Resignation where people were willingly walking

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Speaker 1: away and there wasn't necessarily as much tension in the

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Speaker 1: workplace as there is now. So fast forward another three

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Speaker 1: years and then you get all this AI drama, you

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Speaker 1: get Trump in office, and now we're kind of right

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Speaker 1: back where we were five years ago when we were

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Speaker 1: writing the book. And if you look at black women specifically,

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Speaker 1: our unemployment rates right now, like if it was white men,

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Speaker 1: it would have been been called a recession. Like the

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Speaker 1: number of unemployed or underemployed Black women is just astonishing.

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Speaker 1: And then the ones that are still in the workplace,

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Speaker 1: especially the corporate workforce, are now more open to questioning

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Speaker 1: what the plan is because they know that they can't

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Speaker 1: stay there forever or they don't want to stay there forever.

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Speaker 1: And so it just brings back the conversation of like

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Speaker 1: this idea of cashing in, get what's yours, and then

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Speaker 1: cashing out, like have an exit plan. That's really the

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Speaker 1: whole premise of the book is to be investing with

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Speaker 1: with an end in mind, like to be treating your

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Speaker 1: finances as a path to your freedom and your exit,

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Speaker 1: because all good things must come to an end and

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Speaker 1: all bad things should come to an end.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's the thing about I think a

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Speaker 3: book like yours that's more evergreen is like and unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: I'm so I've been in personal finance and business reporting

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Speaker 3: for so long that I've lived through these ups and downs,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh, it'll don't worry. It's good now,

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Speaker 3: but it'll go back down and then everyone's going to

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Speaker 3: need a book like this. I feel like if you

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Speaker 3: read that book in twenty twenty two, maybe you had

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Speaker 3: a leg up on what's happening right now. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent, I think this is a great time.

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Speaker 3: Like if y'all haven't gone out and got your copy

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Speaker 3: of the cash Out Cashing Out, Oh.

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Speaker 2: My, I got one behind me.

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Speaker 3: It's somewhere right here, here we go those beauties. That's

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Speaker 3: such a good point. I mean, so, and I don't

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Speaker 3: think you know, you might know I'm working on my

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Speaker 3: book right now. It's so funny when you said two

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Speaker 3: years on like try three four.

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Speaker 2: There's been a lot of Disruption and book.

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Speaker 3: I know, I know, if I had only been as

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Speaker 3: smart as y'all have to do it in the early pandemic,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot more free time. I didn't even know

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Speaker 3: how free I was. It's like, oh crazy, yeah, anyway, anyway, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but I'm in the middle of this book and a

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Speaker 3: lot of it is. A lot of it is like

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Speaker 3: it's a conversation about the relationship with ambition and how

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Speaker 3: it's toning that line between acknowledging the headwinds, like you

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Speaker 3: talked about, like there's so much up against us, right,

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Speaker 3: we all we we know that. And I don't think

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Speaker 3: I think black women more than anyone know what is

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Speaker 3: up against, like what we're up against, because cares about

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Speaker 3: us more than we do, right, And yeah, So it's

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Speaker 3: like at a certain point it's the acceptance of those

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Speaker 3: headwinds and the next step is yes, and we're still

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Speaker 3: going to strive and we can still you know, go

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Speaker 3: after the things that we want. Talk to me a

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Speaker 3: little bit. How long has it been since you left

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Speaker 3: your It was a marketing, right, marketing role.

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Speaker 2: Yep, it was marketing and business development.

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Speaker 1: I turned in my resignation on February fourteenth, twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: so Valentine's Day twenty twenty approximately three to four weeks

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Speaker 1: before the world shut down, so that timing was not

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Speaker 1: as ideal. It worked out, but it was also kind

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Speaker 1: of very scary because at the same time I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I was leaving to do all this great stuff, but

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Speaker 1: nothing was happening anywhere, and so that was that was challenging.

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Speaker 1: But it's been six years since I've been in corporate

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Speaker 1: full time, which is crazy.

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Speaker 3: Six years. What surprised you about venturing out on your

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Speaker 3: own six years in? Like, what has been the biggest surprise.

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Speaker 1: I think the biggest surprise is how long it has

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Speaker 1: taken me to detox.

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Speaker 2: Or unlearn or shed whatever word you.

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Speaker 1: Want to use, all of the things that I thought

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Speaker 1: was what made me good at my job or what

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Speaker 1: made me talented or special. I just had a completely

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Speaker 1: warped understanding of where my value was. And the first

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Speaker 1: couple of years of entrepreneurship, like I tried to implement

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Speaker 1: all the things that worked in corporate America in my

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Speaker 1: small business, from meetings to templates, to strategy structure, even

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Speaker 1: tone and voice, like everything about it was just like

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Speaker 1: a version a slightly blacker version than the one that

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Speaker 1: I had in Corporate America, but it's still like a

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Speaker 1: version of that template, and now it's a lot more

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Speaker 1: free flowing, Like now it feels like it comes from me,

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Speaker 1: and that has been incredibly rewarding. Like when I say

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Speaker 1: it's six years, it doesn't feel like six years. It's

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Speaker 1: because probably the last eighteen to twenty four months have

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Speaker 1: I truly felt like an entrepreneur a business owner. And

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Speaker 1: then this last child six to twelve months has just

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Speaker 1: been like a masterclass. And the hard parts of doing

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Speaker 1: this thing, like it has been very, very challenging, and

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Speaker 1: the only way that I can.

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Speaker 2: Cope is exactly what you said, To accept that it is.

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Speaker 1: Challenging, like that that's not new news, and to go

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Speaker 1: from there to say, all right, well, like you've done

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Speaker 1: challenging things before, like figure it out and not in

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Speaker 1: a mean way, but like you're capable of figuring out

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Speaker 1: how to get through something challenging and not spend a

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Speaker 1: bunch of time wishing it was different.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if you're not having a panic attack

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Speaker 3: in the middle of the night on LinkedIn looking for

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Speaker 3: job postings as an entrepreneur, like.

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Speaker 1: You're right, right, every week every week, Like maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: just for a little health insurance, a little little four

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Speaker 1: to one K match would be nice, like just anything.

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Speaker 3: God shive, But what I would give for a sign

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Speaker 3: on bonus from RS. Yes, I know it was real cute.

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Speaker 3: It was really cute. I mean you took the plunge

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Speaker 3: with your husband. I mean, did y'all went first?

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Speaker 2: He went first?

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Speaker 3: Okay, he was a couple of years ahead, but you

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Speaker 3: don't have the relative like, yeah, you're both in it, right,

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Speaker 3: So I mean call it a privilege if you'd like.

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Speaker 3: I have a husband who works. He make a big buddy,

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Speaker 3: he works for the dumb it. So we got good insurance.

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Speaker 2: But I you know I have.

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Speaker 1: That is that is our biggest expense by far, other

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Speaker 1: than housing, Like insurance is such a massive chunk of

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Speaker 1: the money that we spend every year. And honestly, like

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Speaker 1: I have gone back and forth of like do I

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Speaker 1: just want to get something a job, even if it's

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Speaker 1: part time, just to help offset that, But then the

399
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Speaker 1: math is a math on the amount of time that

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Speaker 1: it would take to offset that cost. And I keep trying.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I don't know that that's going

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Speaker 1: to be forever. But man, it is it is a challenge.

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Speaker 1: And you're right, a lot of the entrepreneurs specifically and

404
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Speaker 1: like the creator economy or in the world that we're in,

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Speaker 1: the lane that we're in, do have a spouse that works,

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Speaker 1: which is a nice a nice balance in times like this.

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Speaker 1: Right now, it's just the two of us, and as

408
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 1: if being married isn't hard enough to have to work

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Speaker 1: with your partner and deal with the hard stuff on

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Speaker 1: both ends. It's just like, oh, okay, I see it's

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Speaker 1: got daddy, I see what you're trying to teach me.

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Speaker 3: I'm a lane it though, it's like no side of

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Speaker 3: this equation has green or grass, because on the other hand,

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Speaker 3: it's like it can be a little bit lonely to

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Speaker 3: be the spouse that's doing the that has to get

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Speaker 3: up and figure it out every day and doesn't just

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Speaker 3: sometimes I'm just like, so you just go to work,

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Speaker 3: you just know what you just have, like you know

419
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Speaker 3: goals you're after, and I'm just like, wait, what am

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Speaker 3: I doing today? Hot, Like you know what's going to

421
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Speaker 3: be the thing today? Yeah? I get it sometimes I

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Speaker 3: and sometimes I long for like that understanding of what

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Speaker 3: I'm going through, But yeah, I could see how it

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Speaker 3: could also be Chi.

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Speaker 2: I totally relate. That's why I left.

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Speaker 1: So when he was when he left in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: I was continuing to work.

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Speaker 2: And I had just gotten promoted.

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Speaker 1: I was like a director level at my company, and

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Speaker 1: so I was making good money, like really good money,

431
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 1: best money I ever made up until that point. And

432
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 1: I took a lot of pride in being the breadwinner

433
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: and like retiring my husband this was like in the

434
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 1: era where tab did it with a lot of shit

435
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: for that she did, but this was in that era,

436
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: and I was just like super proud. But then like

437
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: the months went by, a year went by, and he

438
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: had the nerve to like be happy, like he just

439
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 1: he had nothing to complain about. I would complain about

440
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 1: emails and microaggressions and just little political stuff at work.

441
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: He had no tolerance for it. One and then like

442
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 1: he would talk about, you know, a beautiful flower that

443
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 1: he saw that day, or he passed a new park,

444
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: or I worked out a Whole Foods today and they

445
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: had this new pasta, and it was just like, shut up, so.

446
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 3: That does urge here on your dime? Right, Like that

447
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 3: mole removed right.

448
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: Exactly but that tension got too much for me after

449
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: like eighteen months, I was like, I miss having somebody

450
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: to complain with.

451
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. Being your breadwinner

452
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 3: is fucking over rated either way. Like, I don't know

453
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 3: how men put up with it for so long, because

454
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 3: it really, yeah, it is. It's just at the end

455
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 3: of the day, it's it is wonderful. Who doesn't love

456
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 3: the idea that you can like provide and support in

457
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 3: a partnership, But at the same time, long long term,

458
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 3: years and years and years and years and years, like

459
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 3: a human being is going to have some times where

460
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 3: they buckle and like it can be a lot to

461
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 3: carry that responsibility and that weight, you know, solely on

462
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 3: your shoulders.

463
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 2: That's exactly it. That's exactly it.

464
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,959
Speaker 1: It's like a contradiction on top of a contradiction and

465
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: it never goes away.

466
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

467
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 2: Damn. I'm proud of us.

468
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 3: Were waking up today getting out.

469
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: Listen, listen, But so we didn't even talk about motherhood.

470
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: It's like, I got a whole child who is also

471
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: growing and changing, and is it eight or nine? He's

472
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: about to be nine, it'll be nine and about a month.

473
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 2: Which is crazy.

474
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 1: Oh, I gotta stop saying things are crazy like it is.

475
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 2: No, that's nice to say. It's been.

476
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent.

477
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 2: I mean, how is that?

478
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 3: I know, if I remember one thing about the pandemic

479
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 3: and shifting into entrepreneurship, I was a bit more. I

480
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 3: was a bit further. I was in twenty twenty two

481
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 3: when I walked away, and I I don't a mistake.

482
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 3: I just assumed that I could keep being as I

483
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 3: got really addicted to how present I was as a

484
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 3: mom with my baby, like during the pandemic. Addicted as

485
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 3: a strong word. I got very used to it. It

486
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 3: was very hard for me to have a different version

487
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 3: of that. It was very hard to like. And even

488
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 3: now I try to be a stay at home entrepreneur

489
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 3: mom whatever the hell, like, I try to be super

490
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 3: duper pleasant because I'm like, I do work from home,

491
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 3: and so I should be able to meet him at

492
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 3: the bus stop and he shouldn't have to have to

493
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 3: go to aftercare because I'm here and he can just

494
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 3: come home and you know, do his homework and it'll

495
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 3: be fine. And I am running into oh no, this

496
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 3: is definitely not sustainable. I'm only just now investing in

497
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 3: additional supports and care for him and little brother so

498
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 3: that I can have more space. I don't know why

499
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,959
Speaker 3: it took me so long, but it got just totally untenable.

500
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 3: You know, I'm a little bit late to that, but yeah,

501
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, this is going to be different. I'm

502
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 3: not going to be as available.

503
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: Oh you're not the only like I'm later than you.

504
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 1: My son is about to be nine, and I am

505
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: just now coping with the idea that I can't go

506
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: to everything and have the business goals that I have,

507
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 1: Like this is the first year I'm going to miss

508
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: his first little league game. I'm actually going to miss

509
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: his first and second little league game because I'll be

510
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: traveling on business. And normally I don't know that I

511
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: would turn those things down, but I would certainly think

512
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: twice about him.

513
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 2: And now it's just.

514
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 1: Like, no, he's at the age where I have to

515
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: tell him like unfortunately, I'm just I'm not going to

516
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: be there. But he will have hundreds of games. So

517
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,719
Speaker 1: I'm telling myself, he will have hundreds of games, like

518
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: this is not going to ruin him. But you're you're

519
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: absolutely I built I have built an identity around how

520
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: present and available I can be for him. I know

521
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: that it's made a difference in his life and mind.

522
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: But there's also a level of separation that has to

523
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: happen to make room for the other things that I

524
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: want to grow in my life. And so it's a struggle.

525
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: It's a struggle. But we're gonna be all right.

526
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 3: We're still in the same boat. And how do you

527
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 3: deal with the How are y'all as a unit like

528
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: coping with the I mean, I'll just say from anecdotally

529
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 3: from what I've heard from a lot of creators, and

530
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 3: I guess that's the category we'd fallen to. You know,

531
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 3: all these words and stuff, influencers, creators, podcasters, writers, entrepreneurs.

532
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 3: Is a lot of inconsistency in the past couple of

533
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 3: years with like consistent brand deals, influencer deals like speaking opportunities.

534
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 3: A lot of that has become really challenging in the

535
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 3: past couple of years. Have y'all had any headwinds like that?

536
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,959
Speaker 3: And if so, like, how are y'all pivoting or coping

537
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 3: as a unit?

538
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it's been very challenging as everything has shifted

539
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: from ad dollars to types of spend, two types of influencers,

540
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: Like there was a whole wave within the last year

541
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: where the only influencers companies wanted to work with were celebrities.

542
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: Like they were under the impression that Shack could move

543
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: more units than your normal TikTok or Instagram star or

544
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: influencer whatever it is, Like they just threw all their

545
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: money at celebrities. Now I think they're coming back from

546
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: that and saying like, Okay, well that was great for

547
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: Shaquille O'Neal, but we didn't necessarily you see any movement

548
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: in our in our brand metrics. But the way that

549
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: we've dealt with it was we've always focused on diversification,

550
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: Like we've never just had one main revenue stream, and

551
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: so when influencer marketing dried up, okay, well we could

552
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: move to speaking, and if speaking dried up, then we

553
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: could move to podcasts advertising, and if that dried up,

554
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: we could go to B to B consulting or speaking,

555
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: and so we've got all of these different little pockets

556
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: that we can dig into for revenue. The bigger challenge

557
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: is that they all have very different sales cycles.

558
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: So to work with a corporate.

559
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: Partner on a speaking agreement or a consulting agreement.

560
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 2: That's like a six.

561
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: To eight month you know timeline when you include like

562
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: pitch to actual payment, which payment is a whole different story.

563
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 2: You got to get in.

564
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: The system, you gotta wait thirty days, you got to

565
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: you know, do all that stuff versus like you know,

566
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: influencer marketing, where they're typically working with an agency. The

567
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: agency's going to front you the money, pay you still

568
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: not quickly, but quicker, and then they get their money

569
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: from the corporation. And so that's been the hard part

570
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: is just managing when the money comes in, Like finding

571
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: the sale is challenging, but that's my background, Like I can,

572
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: I have no problem reaching out to people and asking.

573
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: The problem is like from ask to payment is like

574
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: nine months. And the one place we didn't really dig

575
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: into is direct to consumer sales. Like we were never

576
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: selling a product or a course or some flagship item

577
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: directly to our followers. That wasn't the business model that

578
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: we pursued. And so that lever is good. That's the

579
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: fastest money, and that money that lever is like not

580
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: it's I mean, we have a course, we have a

581
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: we have a great course. It's called making money grow.

582
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: If anybody's interested making money grow. Okay, we have a

583
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: great course, but it's not you know, it's just it's

584
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: not where we it's not where we put our primary

585
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: bread and butter, birth and content or in energy to

586
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: sell that thing.

587
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 3: The grucification I one hundred percent agree with. But in practice,

588
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 3: it's fricking hard to be diversified because just and individually,

589
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 3: each of these buckets could be someone's entire focus and

590
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 3: take five days a week, you know, fifty two weeks

591
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 3: a year just to sustain like, and that's where I'm like,

592
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 3: I've had the same issue or not the same issue.

593
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 3: I won't put my problems on you, but like like

594
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 3: I'll sit down and I'm like, okay, speaking business, but

595
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 3: then I'm ignoring like you know, the book or the

596
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 3: podcast and other stuff. I actually closed my I did

597
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 3: have a direct to consumer offering. I had Mandy Moneymakers. BA.

598
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 3: FAM's tired to be talking about how I closed it,

599
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 3: but I closed it in January, shut her down, but

600
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 3: it was I had to. Yeah, I've made a decision

601
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 3: to like undiversify a little bit, just a little bit

602
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 3: less for sanity's sake, and so I could just be

603
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 3: a bit more just invest more time into like the

604
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 3: podcast for example. It's my main focus right now, and

605
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 3: maybe there'll be a time when I can go back,

606
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 3: but yeah, I had to bring it in and maybe

607
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 3: that was a bad move, but it felt good.

608
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: I get it.

609
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: I get it, And there's all kind of like advice

610
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: that contradicts. There are some you know, business coaches or

611
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: prominent specialists who will tell you, like one thing, double down,

612
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: triple down, triple down on that one thing. And it's like, well,

613
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: if that one thing is also dependent on an Instagram

614
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: time that is controlled by an algorithm, and your topic

615
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: is deemed not important, then that one thing doesn't work.

616
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: And so I've always had a backup plan, to the

617
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: backup plan, to the backup plan, Like that's the whole

618
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: premise of cashing out when something doesn't work.

619
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: You need to be able to have the ability to

620
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 2: walk away.

621
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: From it with your dignity intact and not trying to

622
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: keep wishing it for it to work, like continuing to

623
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: beat the dead horse.

624
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 2: And so the same approach I take with my business.

625
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: But it is super freaking hard, Like it is.

626
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: It is hard, that's only But I think it's Rachel

627
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: Rogers who says, choose your heart, like I'm choosing that

628
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: version of hard versus the other ones that I've tried

629
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: and didn't have as much agency to control the outcomes with.

630
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. It's that constant you have to

631
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 3: kind of go into that space of like the doubts

632
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 3: just to remind yourself, Okay, no, but I'm doing this

633
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 3: because if was with my values where I want to

634
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 3: see my life, you know what makes me happiest, And like,

635
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 3: oh yeah, I know, I remember why I'm doing this.

636
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: Keep going.

637
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 3: But those little like side quest of doubt, they just

638
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 3: kind of come. They're just part and parcel. I think

639
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 3: of the path that we've chosen, and yeah, it's that

640
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 3: like diabolical faith in yourself that we got to have.

641
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 3: Kids are watching and now Rio knows what a podcast is,

642
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 3: and he's like, are you doing your podcast? Like yet

643
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 3: very successful? I must continue for yours Like no, I'm

644
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 3: doing something. Oh love, We'll go on taking it back

645
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 3: to like where people are at now in this economy.

646
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 3: You know, Trump's about to go on a podium tonight.

647
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 3: We're recording this tonight of the Stay of the Union address,

648
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: which I don't know how relevant that is to anybody

649
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 3: listening a straight relevant to me other than it makes

650
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 3: me think about the state of our union, the state

651
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 3: of like individuals you talked about, you know, the job

652
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 3: market right now, and how incredibly it's been hard for

653
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 3: a long long time as layoffs left, right and center.

654
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 3: And I and I have seen and heard, you know,

655
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 3: from the women in my community that they're wondering, should

656
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 3: I just plan my own exit strategy, like get ahead

657
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 3: of it before they ask me, Let me have my

658
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 3: own plan to walk away. And so I wanted to

659
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 3: get your take on, like, what would you say to

660
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 3: someone who's considering wanting to be ready if they if

661
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 3: for when they walk away, Like, what would you say,

662
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 3: here's what you should focus on, think about so that

663
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 3: you can best prepare yourself to take that leap.

664
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: The good news is that America is still a very

665
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: rich country, at least on paper. But we'll go with

666
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: that still a very rich country. And so the exercise

667
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: is primarily psychological versus actual constraints, Like there's a lot

668
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 1: of money out there you could sign up for. I'm

669
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: going to give the cliche examples door dash, dog walking.

670
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: You could in most neighborhoods find a part time gig

671
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: to make some cash doing just about anything.

672
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 2: You can sell things on Facebook, marketplace, like if you.

673
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: Want money, there's not a lot of barriers to entry

674
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: to get money. The bigger issue is consistent cash flow,

675
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: adjusting your expectations for what your lifestyle needs to look

676
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: like and what parts of your lifestyle you're willing to

677
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: trade off for this new identity, this new free identity,

678
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: and then making sure that you have a plan for

679
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 1: when something goes wrong. And that could be a plan

680
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: that includes, like you know, an emergency fund and all

681
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: the things that we typically talk about in personal finance.

682
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: But a lot of it is dependent on community, Like

683
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: I think it's the most under valued, underappreciated, under talked about.

684
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: And I don't mean community like we talk about online,

685
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 1: Like your actual neighbors, like the people who live within

686
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 1: five to ten miles from you, the businesses within five

687
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: to ten miles from you, the nonprofits, the food pantries,

688
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: all of the support that is within five to ten

689
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: fifteen miles from you needs to be like known by you,

690
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: Like you need to know here's where I'm going if

691
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: something happens, Here's who I'm calling. Here are the people

692
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: that can bring me this, that or the other, and

693
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 1: then also be willing to volunteer in the good times,

694
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: like here's how I'm going to help so that I

695
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,240
Speaker 1: better understand this situation. But there's there is a path,

696
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: There's absolutely a path if you want to pursue it,

697
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: you just have to put yourself in a different mindset

698
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: and identity than the one that you are currently in

699
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: your current situation.

700
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 3: Is that because like when you talk about community, like

701
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 3: in what cases would you like, as someone who walks

702
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 3: away from corporate be needing to lean on that community

703
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 3: more than maybe you are now.

704
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: The first, the first and most obvious one for me

705
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: is just borrowing things like we have.

706
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 2: It's one of the habits that I had.

707
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: To change the most was when I was in corporate

708
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: and I was getting that steady paycheck every other week.

709
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: I had no problem just buying what I needed, even

710
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: if I only needed it for a temporary time, even

711
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: if I only needed it one time, even if I

712
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: only needed it for us back, I just buy it.

713
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 2: Why not?

714
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 1: But when you learn that, like your neighbors actually have

715
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: a drill or a you know, a water hose that.

716
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 2: Reaches your ceiling or a twelve foot that's what I

717
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 2: was looking for. Pressure waters, the word yeah, a.

718
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 1: Twelve foot ladder, even a formal dress or you know,

719
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: like just little stuff deep conditioner. I will I will

720
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: reach out to my homegirl and be like, oh, I'm out,

721
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: Do you have something to hold me over? Like little

722
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: stuff to just slow down the buying process so that

723
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 1: you can you can steady the amount of cash that's

724
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: leaving your home and make sure that you have a

725
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: good baseline for what you're actually living on, because cashing

726
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: coming in is quickly.

727
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 2: It is.

728
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: It is one of the most underrated plans that people

729
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: like don't make is how do you reduce your spending.

730
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: You assume that it happens automatically, but it is a

731
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 1: lot of little conscious choices. There are also all kinds

732
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: of free things that happen in every neighborhood. So if

733
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: you have kids like me or like Mandy, like instead

734
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: of paying to go to a trampoline park, like if

735
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: you would just look at your local parks and recreations

736
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: web page, or listen to the radio for those of

737
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 1: you still have a commute.

738
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 2: A lot of don't listen to the radio anymore. But

739
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: there's all kinds of.

740
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: Advertisements for back to school drives or free fairs and

741
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: festivals or a grand opening where they're giving away something,

742
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: and a lot of times we'll hear that and we'll think, oh,

743
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: that's just for like underprivileged people, or that's not for

744
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: people like me, and it's like it is for whoever

745
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: needs it a lot of times when it is free,

746
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: like there's a lot left over and you can still

747
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: enjoy that thing because you live there, like it's for

748
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: the neighbors.

749
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 2: And so I think.

750
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: That that shift for me of just like enjoying more

751
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: of what is openly available and offered all the time

752
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: has been eye opening to me about like how limited

753
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: I was because I assumed that I needed to pay

754
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: for everything that I did or consumed.

755
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, free childcare, The amount of money I

756
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 3: can save by having my neighbor, you know, pick up

757
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 3: a kid if like a little man was sick on Friday,

758
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 3: I couldn't pick up my older son from his camp,

759
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 3: and so a neighbor I went out there and got her.

760
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 3: The same neighbor who I led to formal dress too

761
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 3: for a cruise that she went done a few months ago.

762
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 2: You see it, Yeah.

763
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it's everything. And I know it sounds so simple,

764
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: but I'm telling you, once you like consciously focus on it,

765
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 1: it's just like anything else, even if we were talking

766
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: about manifesting money or anything that you want. The ability

767
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 1: to save money works the same way. Like once you

768
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: really tune in to all these opportunities, like oh, the

769
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 1: local skating rink is doing a parent's night off, we

770
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: can just drop our kids off.

771
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: I'm not saying drop them off.

772
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: Like with no regard, but like you and a friend

773
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: and can say, yeah, let's send them there, we'll go

774
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: grab dinner, or maybe we have dinner at your house

775
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: and we swap and you save money and you got

776
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: what you wanted, Like it didn't cost you anything.

777
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 2: It just cost you a little bit of creativity.

778
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: So I just think there's some creativity that has to

779
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: be applied to this world, and it has to be

780
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: viewed that way. It can't be viewed as like a

781
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: like a cutback or a downgrade or like a ugh.

782
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: It's got to be like, ah, well, that was a

783
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: fun way to get a free lunch.

784
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 2: Would have never thought of that. You got to have

785
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 2: some playfulness to it, otherwise you'll miss it all right,

786
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 2: be a fan.

787
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 3: We're gonna take a quick break and I'll be right

788
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 3: back with more of my conversation with Kirsten Saunders. Stick around.

789
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 3: You know, it's really like contradictory to the image anyone

790
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 3: has if they think of someone who's like gonna become

791
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 3: self employed work for themselves, that lifestyle creep and like

792
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 3: really getting ahead of that, making sure that you were

793
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 3: living beneath your means is even more important because in

794
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 3: so many ways there's there's pros to working for yourself, right,

795
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 3: but at the same time, it's like it's it's even riskier,

796
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 3: you know. I mean there's no risk free option. Either

797
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 3: you're working in corporate as someone else's behest and you know,

798
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 3: can be let go in any momentary. You're working for

799
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 3: yourself and could lose a couple of clients and be

800
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 3: all of a sudden underwater and like anyway, but the

801
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 3: best defense against that, I think what we're getting at

802
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 3: is maintaining a lifestyle that is sustainable during good and

803
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:41,959
Speaker 3: during the inevitably challenging times. And I definitely yeered away

804
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 3: from that, like early in my when I had my

805
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 3: during the pandemic and after I started to I started to, yeah,

806
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 3: not live beyond the means, but definitely not live as

807
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 3: as as frugally as I was before I had kids.

808
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 3: It became a lot more harder when I had the babies.

809
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: I always, I always struggled with that word frugal, like,

810
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: it's not a word that I identify with, I still don't.

811
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 3: Really taste like mouth falls in my mouth.

812
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: Hard from my tongue, don't move that way. I struggled

813
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: with it.

814
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: But it wasn't until this probably going to sound crazy,

815
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: and I apologize in advance of defends any listeners. But

816
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't until I started talking to more white people,

817
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: like truly talking to them as neighbors, as friends, that

818
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 1: I started to see it as a different version of luxury. Right,

819
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 1: there's not just one version of luxury. Luxury is not

820
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: just synonymous with expensive. That's not what a luxury is.

821
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: Luxury is something that isn't easily accessible by everyone. It's

822
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 1: something that is rare, it's something that is special to you.

823
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: And what I saw was like the freedom, the ability

824
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: to move creatively, creatively, the ability to move creatively through

825
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: the world and recognize its abundance in many forms, was

826
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: the version of luxury that I felt most comfortable in.

827
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: I had never identified with, like you know, like it

828
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: wasn't the soft life like those words. It was the

829
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 1: way that it was portrayed on Instagram, like where you're

830
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: walking around on like little furry heels and like a

831
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: silk robe.

832
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:24,240
Speaker 2: That's just not my life.

833
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: I'm a boy mom, I'm low maintenance. I just I

834
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: don't I didn't relate to it. But my version is

835
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: like recognizing that a library is literally full of free

836
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: books really ticket they don't care how long you stay.

837
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: Like in our big library these days.

838
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 2: Like our big library.

839
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:50,439
Speaker 1: In the county, not the one that's down the street

840
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 1: from my house, but the big library has this whole

841
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: third floor that has like a maker studio where you

842
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: have like a free three D printer, a free cricket machine.

843
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 1: They give free if you want to learn how to

844
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: embroider or crochet, and they have all these tools that

845
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: were bought by the county that are just there.

846
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 2: All you got to do is sign.

847
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: Up and it's like wow, I feel the same way

848
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 1: I felt like when I really learned what a corporate

849
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: for one K match was, where it's like, oh, you

850
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: got money for me? All I do is do this

851
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: one thing and I get money. That's how I feel

852
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: moving around my city now where it's just like, huh,

853
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: did y'all know they giving out freestyle that you can

854
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: go on Costco and just get free samples.

855
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 2: Did you know that? But yes, I know, but we

856
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 2: know that and we check the box.

857
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: But like when you're in it, you appreciate it, like

858
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: there's a gratitude and an attraction that then attracts more

859
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,720
Speaker 1: that then attracts more, and it's like there's so much

860
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 1: that people pay for that they don't have to or

861
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: they don't have to pay as much for, like you

862
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: don't have to pay a forty percent premium because you

863
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: like to buy it from to.

864
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,240
Speaker 2: Say Target versus TJ Max.

865
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 3: Like I wish I could add up how much I've

866
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 3: saved by not shopping at Target. I know for I

867
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 3: know for a fact it has been hundreds, if not thousands,

868
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 3: just because you go in there for one thing and

869
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 3: end up with like twelve more. And yeah, huge for

870
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 3: me was the Target boycott, Thank goodness for that. But

871
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 3: also Amazon, like I stopped really messing with Amazon except

872
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 3: for a couple of cases where something I needed, like

873
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 3: it came in clutch. My husband refuses to join me

874
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 3: on my Amazon boycott, and so he still has an account.

875
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 3: I'm trying to win him over, so sometimes I'll log

876
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 3: into his account. Of anyway, it's that convenience, and it's

877
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 3: like what you said, slowing down the spending, trying to

878
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 3: find ways to slow down my spending, and yeah, giving

879
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 3: up the Amazon and not relying on Target. It also

880
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 3: has forced me to borrow more then often from neighbors. Yeah,

881
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 3: one hundred percent. And I think that those touches of

882
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 3: humanity are really for me. They're very soothing to my

883
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 3: nervous system, which this poor baby, this poor nervous system

884
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 3: that I was given. I only got one of them,

885
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 3: and she been through the wringer. And I think again,

886
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 3: like there's not really much like I don't want to

887
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 3: keep saying, like corporate versus self employed. I think either way,

888
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 3: like burnout is a real thing, right, especially in our

889
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 3: age bracket. You know, that's prime time for I think

890
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 3: burnout to be happening because maybe you've got a couple

891
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 3: of kids, you got that mortgage, you got more responsibility

892
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 3: at work because you were killing it, and you got

893
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 3: everything you wanted, which you got promoted, promoted, promoted, and

894
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 3: pressure pressure, So what are the signs that maybe it's time?

895
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 3: Like it's like burnout can be so intense sometimes that

896
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 3: sometimes it's like the only thing you think to do

897
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 3: is walk away. Quit. I can't take this anymore. I

898
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 3: must quit, I must walk away. But I also think

899
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 3: that there is sometimes one that feels like there's a

900
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 3: fire alarm going off that the answer is maybe not

901
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 3: walking away, Like how do you sort of see that?

902
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 3: What would you say to someone who's feeling like that

903
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 3: right now? Like fight or flight is real? Maybe is

904
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 3: not the answer.

905
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: It is, And I think you kind of alluded to

906
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: it in the way that you frame the question. Fight

907
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: or flight is real, but it is also very nervous

908
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 1: system driven. And your nervous system doesn't necessarily respond to

909
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: logic like it responds to scripts, it responds to images,

910
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: it responds to somatic releases. And so you have to

911
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,439
Speaker 1: really step out of yourself. And although you may think

912
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: that you're being rational, make sure that you tend to

913
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: your nervous system first.

914
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 2: You got to calm that.

915
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: Thing down, because if you are making decisions from that

916
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: height and place, they are anything but rational. Like in

917
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: your mind you're being chased by a tiger, when in

918
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 1: reality you've got fourteen emails that need to be responded

919
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: to and a baseball game and drinks with your girls. Like,

920
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: that's the reality of the situation, and you got to

921
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: separate it from the feeling that it causes. And I

922
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,839
Speaker 1: think the other thing that I've learned about burnout, even

923
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 1: just in doing this work with money and careers and happiness,

924
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: is that burnout is really a result of doing the

925
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 1: work that you don't want to be doing. So it's

926
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: not just a lot of work that's happening or a

927
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: lot that's expected of you. It's doing things that are

928
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: expected of you that you don't want to be doing.

929
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: And so if you can close that gap and really

930
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:33,760
Speaker 2: figure out how to offload.

931
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: The things that you don't want to be doing or

932
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: the things that are not best suited for you, you

933
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,879
Speaker 1: can have those tough conversations. You can learn that very

934
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: hard skill of delegating, or learn that hard skill of

935
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,919
Speaker 1: having the conversation with someone you love to say like, look,

936
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 1: I just can't do that anymore. I can't be at

937
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: every little league game anymore, even if the person you

938
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 1: love is nine or six or two. You still have

939
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: to learn how to have a difficult conversation with them,

940
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: and once you do that, then you minimize it's a

941
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 1: number of things that are truly burning you out, and

942
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: you can start to whittle that list down a lot,

943
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: because it's not just about having a lot of things

944
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 1: to do. There are people who are eternally busy that

945
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,760
Speaker 1: are incredibly happy and not burnt out. So it's figuring

946
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: out like what's causing the friction and then addressing those things,

947
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: finding the skill and the courage to do it. And

948
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 1: I say skill for a reason because it's not just

949
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 1: like positive psychology and like hyping yourself up. It is

950
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: a skill to have a productive, difficult conversation. It is

951
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: a skill to delegate effectively, and it is a skill

952
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: to get rid of things from your responsibility list that

953
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,280
Speaker 1: you thought couldn't be moved. They can be like everything

954
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: is an option in a lot of places, and so

955
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: you know, it's just it's working through that.

956
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really wise, and it makes me think of

957
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 3: to this journey that I've been on to get to

958
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 3: know myself a lot better and to have some like

959
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 3: to recognize that the feeling of fight or flight the

960
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 3: feeling of or No, it doesn't mean that you're failing,

961
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 3: but it is your body saying pay attention to this,

962
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 3: and let's look at this and let's think about it,

963
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 3: and you have to calm get to a quiet, safe

964
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 3: place whatever that is. It's calling a neighbors say can

965
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 3: you watch the kids for thirty minutes? It's or if

966
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 3: you have a partner, hey, like turn on YouTube. I'm

967
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 3: going to sit in the car. I love my car.

968
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 3: Sit in the car and just get my mind right

969
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 3: and ask yourself, Okay, what am I feeling and what

970
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 3: can this be tied to? And I'll let you in

971
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 3: bea fam anti Kirsten.

972
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 2: The one way that.

973
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 3: I use AI is I use it to gut check

974
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 3: moments of intense emotions.

975
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: Yes, me too, do you Yes, I have all trained

976
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: and everything.

977
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 3: Really okay, I'm like, remember when I told you about

978
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 3: my sons and their ages? Okay, great, so one of

979
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 3: them will and it's quite I mean I went back

980
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 3: and forth like is this how I should? But I

981
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 3: find it to be really helpful and I know that

982
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 3: it's hilarious because like the AI has a certain tone

983
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 3: and a voice and it's always like you're doing great,

984
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 3: and this is all just makes so much sense and

985
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 3: all that. However, if I have brain overload and it

986
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,720
Speaker 3: is a bunch of personal stuff and work stuff and

987
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 3: you know, family stuff all happening at once, I will

988
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 3: dumb everything that I think I need to be doing

989
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 3: into my AI and just be like I'm crushing out.

990
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 3: I don't know what to do, And before I know it,

991
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, I can handle this, and here's what

992
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 3: can be just kind of helps to prioritize and get

993
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 3: it clarified. Okay, I'm glad that I'm not. No, I'd

994
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 3: be so helpful.

995
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 2: That is the use case.

996
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: Like it is good at a lot of things that

997
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:45,479
Speaker 1: humans just aren't specifically pattern matching without emotion. If you are,

998
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: were you in like gifted classes when you were growing up,

999
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: or like, were you just like a really smart studious kid. Yeah,

1000
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: there are just some people. This is what AI taught

1001
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,720
Speaker 1: me about myself. By the way, Okay, because that pause

1002
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 1: that you're talking about, I mean, your nervous system reacting

1003
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: and you making meaning of it doesn't happen in my

1004
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: body naturally. Like my brain moves so fast that before

1005
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 1: my body or like before I've even had a chance

1006
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 1: to react to something logically, I've already cited a story

1007
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 1: about it. And it's hard for me in entrepreneurship and

1008
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 1: in motherhood because there's so much happening all the time,

1009
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: and so if I don't hear back from an email

1010
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: or if I get rejected from something that I pitched,

1011
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: my mind automatically says like, you're not good enough, and

1012
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 1: it runs with that script. My nervous system runs with

1013
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: that script, like if my brain says, oh, must not

1014
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 1: be good enough, then everything shuts down from there, like

1015
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: I'm not creating any more content, I'm not talking to nobody,

1016
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: I'm not speaking to the people that do love me

1017
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: and rock with me.

1018
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 2: I'm just not good enough.

1019
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,720
Speaker 1: And so building in that pause has been so hard

1020
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: because it is almost automatic in my brain, and I

1021
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: just have a quick brain. I'm very very smart, very fast,

1022
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: a very fast brain.

1023
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 3: And sometimes I talk to people because you already know

1024
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 3: what they're going to say, and you already know what

1025
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 3: you're going to say and how it's going to end,

1026
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 3: and you're like, okay, can we just get yeah?

1027
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 2: I currently yeah.

1028
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: Some of it is ADHD driven and some of it

1029
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 1: is like, uh, just I've heard it before, like if

1030
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: you're truly interesting, I am locked into like every single

1031
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,919
Speaker 1: word I'm not anticipating. But there are some people who

1032
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 1: speak in a very specific pattern, whether it was learned

1033
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: from television or the region that they're in, and it's like, yeah,

1034
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: I already know, come on, come on, come on, get

1035
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 1: to the park. Get to the park. But with myself,

1036
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: I do the same thing. With other people's behaviors towards me,

1037
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: I assume that I know what they mean, and it's

1038
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,879
Speaker 1: like I don't though, Like that's a very ego driven

1039
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 1: idea that I would know with every interaction what somebody

1040
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: meant by it, but my brain thinks it does. And

1041
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 1: learning that pause and to your point, like just taking

1042
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: the AI and saying, ooh, I've noticed that my heart

1043
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: is racing.

1044
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 2: I am avoiding this task.

1045
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: I think what I'm telling myself is that I don't

1046
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: want to do it because it's going to be hard.

1047
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: And it reminds me like, girl, you've done hard things before,

1048
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: Please open your computer and do it. It's like, okay,

1049
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: all right, I got it.

1050
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 2: I'll do it.

1051
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 3: And there's nothing wrong with our brains. It's just sometimes

1052
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 3: you just need like a thought partner, you know, just

1053
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 3: someone to rain it in. Yeah, I just yeah, I

1054
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 3: have a very active imagination and the imagine is in

1055
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 3: wild shit. Usually that makes me feel pretty bad, and

1056
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 3: it's like, just imagine nicer things that'd be nice. Yes,

1057
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 3: So shout out to our chatbots for helping with that. Yeah,

1058
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 3: I just to kind of close out the conversation around

1059
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 3: entrepreneurship and being a creator in twenty twenty six, what

1060
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 3: would you say to someone who's feeling like, Okay, this

1061
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:52,879
Speaker 3: corporate late I'm in right now is not the right fit.

1062
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 3: But I see these creators online who are like doing

1063
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 3: great things and killing it. That's what I want to

1064
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 3: be doing. What would you tell to them if they're

1065
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 3: thinking that's the option for them, if they're hating corporate

1066
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 3: right now.

1067
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: I would say to practice whatever skill you think that

1068
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 1: person has at work, Like, practice it while you're getting

1069
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 1: a paycheck. Practice it in environments that are not online.

1070
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: The online game like that hustle.

1071
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 2: Is a very.

1072
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 1: It's similar to corporate, but there's a lot more that

1073
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 1: you don't control because of algorithms and just the way

1074
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: that social networks are set up. So unless you've got

1075
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: some strong traction, the discoverability of your work online takes

1076
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 1: a long time. Like, unless you've got a viral hook,

1077
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: you're willing to reveal something about yourself, You're willing to

1078
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 1: be extra vulnerable upfront.

1079
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 2: It's very hard to get that initial.

1080
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 3: Traction, really juicy pimple that you want to pop.

1081
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you got to be willing to know.

1082
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 1: You got to be willing to admit you spend six

1083
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a month on soda like something crazy, and

1084
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: then you got to like opt into sharing that journey,

1085
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: Like you create this parasocial relationship with the people that

1086
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 1: you tell your biggest secret to, which can be overwhelming

1087
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 1: because you just told the internet, not like just people

1088
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 1: like you, not just people you want to connect with.

1089
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 2: You told everybody, and you have no control over where

1090
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 2: that goes.

1091
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: So the safe way to practice it and to get

1092
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: your nervous system attuned to what you want to do,

1093
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 1: which is be more visible and be more you to

1094
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: more people is in the real world, like at work.

1095
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:34,839
Speaker 1: It can be something very simple like maybe showing up

1096
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: to a zoom call dressed differently, or maybe your hair

1097
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 1: styled differently, or it can be making small talk and

1098
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: an elevator with a stranger and just seeing where it goes.

1099
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 1: It could be making a joke with someone senior in

1100
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 1: your life. But you've got to get your reps going

1101
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 1: for your nervous system so that you don't train it

1102
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 1: on the wrong metrics, because it's very easy to do

1103
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: that on line. You will train it to chase the

1104
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 1: wrong thing, and then you will look back, have all

1105
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 1: the followers in the world and still not feel like yourself,

1106
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: and still not feel like you are doing what you

1107
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: wanted to do or the way that you wanted to

1108
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 1: do it.

1109
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's really wise. The only thing I

1110
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 3: would add is like, I like that you said practice

1111
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 3: it in corporate. I also think practice it just go

1112
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 3: ahead and try like you can't. I would never say

1113
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 3: to someone you know, drop everything and then go launch

1114
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 3: a creator career, you know, from scratch, because of the

1115
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 3: time it takes yet to build that audience. And I

1116
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 3: do think there's a way to do it even if

1117
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 3: you have you know, even if you're worried about your

1118
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 3: bosses finding out and all of that. If it's like

1119
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 3: tied to the work that you're doing, there's you know,

1120
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 3: it can be a newsletter, a substack, it can be

1121
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 3: being a guest on you know, a podcast, it can

1122
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 3: be you know, creating content like under a pseudonym, but

1123
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 3: just something to start flexing those muscles. Because if you

1124
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 3: if you hate it because it's hard, like it's going

1125
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 3: to be hard. You heard us talk about it, right,

1126
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 3: not because we want to scare anybody away, but because

1127
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 3: I'd rather let you know what you're up against.

1128
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: And it's important that we say it because it's not

1129
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: the work that's hard. It's not the typing into the

1130
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 1: keyboard or the setting up the phone. It's the reaction

1131
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: or lack thereof, that is the hard part. And what

1132
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 1: your body and your brain tells you. Like when you

1133
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 1: spend an hour editing a freaking reel or doing whatever,

1134
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: writing a newsletter and you get like one like and twelve.

1135
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 2: Views, like, you gotta be okay with it.

1136
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: You got to you gotta know that, like that wasn't

1137
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: an hour wasted, And that doesn't mean that you need

1138
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: to now go like rebrand and do a photoshoot and

1139
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 1: pay somebody ten thousand dollars, Like It's just part of

1140
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,440
Speaker 1: the process, and you gotta fall in love with the

1141
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: process from all angles.

1142
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 3: Man, I just wish that I could be in your

1143
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 3: little community and be five minutes down the road. I

1144
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 3: just feel like.

1145
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 2: You're not that far girl.

1146
00:58:58,400 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 3: I'm in New York.

1147
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 2: How much what Charlotte, I'm lying, I am.

1148
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 3: In Atlanta sometimes. So I got to let you know

1149
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 3: if I come down and do I want to do

1150
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 3: a week out of the iHeart studio there and record.

1151
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 2: There's much literally like ten minutes for me.

1152
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 3: There's so many incredible people in Atlanta, and I'm like,

1153
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 3: I need to do a whole like interview like Marathon

1154
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 3: in Georgia in Atlanta.

1155
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 1: I'll let you know, yeah, or we'll just find a

1156
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 1: way to work together so that I can just come

1157
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: visit you. You can come visit me, right and just

1158
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: do something that. Yeah, ask your boss, yeah, you'll ask mine.

1159
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 1: All right, Well, let me take a quick break behavior.

1160
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 1: We're gonna be right back and I'm going to get

1161
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:44,919
Speaker 1: to the one of my favorite times of the show,

1162
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 1: Brown Boost, Brown Bert.

1163
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 3: Be right back. All right, be a fan, Welcome back

1164
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 3: to the show. My incredible guest today, Kirsten Saunders. We

1165
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 3: have come to the end of the show, but my

1166
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 3: favorite segment, which is called Brown Boost Brown Break. We're

1167
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 3: either gonna spotlight something that we want to boost and

1168
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 3: we're excited about, or take a break from something that

1169
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 3: we are fed up with, and just you know, instead

1170
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 3: of telling chat Chip or our bot of choice, we're

1171
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 3: gonna unload on each other what's frustrating us. Would you

1172
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 3: like to go first? Or would you like me to

1173
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 3: go first?

1174
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 2: You go first?

1175
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 3: Okay? Well I came across this on the Grio. It's

1176
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 3: the headline is how a black woman's grocery store in

1177
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 3: Chicago is reclaiming the promise of forty acres and it's beautiful.

1178
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 3: It's a woman, a black woman from Chicago, what is

1179
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 3: her name, Liz, Liz Abanah, who decided that she wanted

1180
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 3: to envision what is the concept of forty acres and

1181
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 3: a mule? What would that look like actually today? And

1182
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 3: so she came up with this concept, the forty Acres

1183
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 3: fresh Market, and it's a fully functioning market stocked with

1184
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 3: fresh produce and meats and everything essentials, right in the

1185
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 3: middle of a neighborhood that used to be in like

1186
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 3: a food desert it used to be. She opened it

1187
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 3: and what used to be a salvation army thrift store

1188
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 3: had like these heavy concrete block walls. She said it

1189
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 3: felt more like a prison. And now the picture, I'll

1190
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 3: post a link in the show notes, y'all so you

1191
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 3: can see it. It's just so beautiful. And so I

1192
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 3: just love this. I think that first of all black

1193
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 3: owned businesses in twenty twenty six, yes, let's lift them up.

1194
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 3: But second of all, it's like a woman who saw

1195
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 3: a need in her community and got it together to

1196
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 3: build something incredible like that. So congratulations to you, Liz,

1197
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 3: and I hope forty acres. I see P and C

1198
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 3: Bank as like a sponsor or something like that.

1199
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 2: That's amazing.

1200
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, last year, we did a op doc on like

1201
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 1: what am I trying to say? So as I know,

1202
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: I need to cut it's like an opinion documentary, but

1203
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 1: we did. We did something called Taste the Nation and

1204
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: one of the people that we interviewed was Rihanna Lynn,

1205
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 1: who is a food scientist and a fellow tar Hill.

1206
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 2: We went to school.

1207
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 1: Together many moons ago, and I guess this is my

1208
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 1: brown booth shout out to Rihanna. But she introduced us

1209
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 1: to the owners of this autonomous grocery store in Atlanta.

1210
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 1: I think it's called Good and Gather. I'll check my

1211
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: notes when we're done and send me the proper name

1212
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 1: for it. But it was just an amazing conversation about

1213
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: the need for food and black farmers and just our

1214
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: history and how we survived these times by feeding our

1215
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: body and like truly making health is wealth, like a

1216
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 1: literal interpretation of things that we eat and where we shop.

1217
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: And it was just it was a great conversation that

1218
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 1: you reminded me of when you mentioned that there are

1219
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: still black women who are out here doing this work,

1220
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 1: like still trying to figure out how to keep us

1221
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 1: healthy and fit.

1222
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 3: I need a black woman to take over Trader Joe's

1223
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 3: because growing up and growing older has meant that I

1224
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 3: really don't understand and the hype with Trader Joe's anymore.

1225
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 3: I don't know how anybody does their grocery shopping there.

1226
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 3: I don't know why they have cornered the market a

1227
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 3: millennial everytail, but I just feel like it's ripe for

1228
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:10,280
Speaker 3: a takeover.

1229
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 2: It is. I get the hype, I don't like the experience.

1230
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 2: I think they picked the.

1231
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: Worst parking lots and yeah, I can never find exactly

1232
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 1: what I need when I'm there. I do get stuff,

1233
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 1: I get groceries, but you know, be having a fridge

1234
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 1: fall and nothing to eat exactly.

1235
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 3: Plus are having a recall every other week, are they?

1236
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 3: Like yes, three million bags of you know, stir fried

1237
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 3: rice or every like the frozen stuff, you know, because

1238
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 3: it's all like processed and stuff. I think we just

1239
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 3: found our collective brown break.

1240
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 2: Trader Joe's picking beef with Trader Joe's.

1241
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 3: I'll be shopping at DJs now you're buying them both.

1242
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 2: Listen, we're at all the Costco fam. So I'm the

1243
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 2: I'm right there with.

1244
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 3: You, well curious, and thank you so much for joining

1245
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 3: me at the brown table and for sharing your light.

1246
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 3: And I hope this top. I hope that the cold

1247
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 3: Shoulder Top makes its way out of the donation pile.

1248
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 3: If not, it had a great run and it will

1249
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 3: forever be immortalized on this episode of Brown Edition.

1250
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 2: That was my actual brown break, having too many dang clothes.

1251
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:26,400
Speaker 2: But yes, I'm.

1252
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 3: Proud of you for making a pile that was Thank you.

1253
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 3: That's what my AI would tell me. He'd be like,

1254
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 3: he it's bought. It would say you made a pile today,

1255
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 3: good job. I'll take a five minute break just for you.

1256
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 2: I love it. Thank you for having me. This was fun.

1257
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 3: Where can BA Fam find you? We got to get

1258
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 3: our copy of Cashing Out. It's still available, yess are sold.

1259
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 2: You can find us on Instagram at rich and Regular.

1260
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: We have a super cool YouTube channel also at rich

1261
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 1: and Regular.

1262
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 2: I'm on LinkedIn.

1263
01:04:57,880 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 1: You can go to our website, sign up for our news,

1264
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 1: and our podcast comes out every single week, also called

1265
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 1: rich and Regular.

1266
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 3: It's a great companion for Brown Ambition. I know we

1267
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 3: have a lot of overlaps, so I hope people are

1268
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 3: BA Fam and Richard Regular Fam in the same house. Yes,

1269
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 3: all right, Well until next time, BA Fan, thank you

1270
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 3: so much for listening. Kirsten sending you all the love

1271
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 3: and thank you luck on this journey that we both on.

1272
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 3: I do think we should collab. We'll talk offline about that.

1273
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 3: We definitely should until next time. Bye bye, and before

1274
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 3: I go, BA Fam, I want to shout out the

1275
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 3: team that helps make Brown Ambition possible. Huge thanks to

1276
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 3: my fam at iHeartRadio, Katrina Norvel and Jenna Cagel, my

1277
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 3: worker bees, behind the scenes, booking assistant Brittany Laier and

1278
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 3: virtual assistant Cameron McNair who keep me organized, and of

1279
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 3: course my editor Courtney Dean, Thank y'all so much for

1280
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 3: supporting the show. If you love Brown Ambition, share it

1281
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 3: with a friend, tag us on social and don't forget

1282
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 3: to leave a comment or review Until next time. By

1283
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:04,919
Speaker 3: BA Fam