WEBVTT - S4E4: Paul Scheer and the Johnstown Flood

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<v Speaker 1>No one talks about that. No one talks about how

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<v Speaker 1>the fishing and that club went down him. You know what,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a reason for that, Paul.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just be honest, that's a kind of a shitty take, because,

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<v Speaker 2>like I mean, I'm paying top dollar to be in

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<v Speaker 2>this hunting fishing club and fish. How good was that

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<v Speaker 2>fishing here? Really good? Right? Damn it? Hey, I've at

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<v Speaker 2>helms and welcome back to Snapfoo, a show about history's

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<v Speaker 2>greatest screw ups, more specifically, a show in which I

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<v Speaker 2>walk my wonderful guests through distinctly unwonderful moments from the past. Today,

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<v Speaker 2>we'll be covering the infamous Johnstown flood of eighteen eighty nine,

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<v Speaker 2>and our guest, Well, he's truly one of the best

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<v Speaker 2>in the biz. And I mean that in both the

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<v Speaker 2>general sense in that he's just an awesome dude, but

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<v Speaker 2>also he is someone who is just constantly crushing it

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<v Speaker 2>across like every platform in the whole business. You might

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<v Speaker 2>know him from TV shows like The League or Black Monday,

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<v Speaker 2>or his uber popular podcasts How Did This Get Made?

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<v Speaker 2>And unspooled? Please welcome my very dear old friend, the

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<v Speaker 2>great Paul Sheer Ed so.

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<v Speaker 1>Excited to be here because honestly, it's the only time

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<v Speaker 1>I've ever get any validation. You Just reading off those

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<v Speaker 1>credits made me feel good. I'm like, oh wow, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean I didn't even mention your book. You just had

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<v Speaker 1>a You just wrote a book.

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<v Speaker 2>I have a book. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>Look, you and I are now authors, We are best

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<v Speaker 1>selling authors.

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<v Speaker 2>Very exciting, It is very exciting. I'm very proud of us.

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<v Speaker 2>I was trying to think back to the origin of

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<v Speaker 2>our friendship, and it just it falls into that huge

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<v Speaker 2>basket of just wonderful people orbiting the UCB Theater in

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<v Speaker 2>New York City around what like nineteen ninety nine.

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<v Speaker 1>Right in that area, because you know, it's it's interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>There's certain people that like Jason Manzucas. Obviously we co

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<v Speaker 1>host this podcast together. I know Jason for many years.

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<v Speaker 1>But Jason was not somebody that was invited to my wedding,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a crazy thing because we weren't that close

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<v Speaker 1>at that point in our He's definitely a friend. He

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<v Speaker 1>didn't get that cut. He didn't make that cut. I

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<v Speaker 1>was at your wedding, you were, and the all the time,

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<v Speaker 1>I was.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, where is Jason? Why this is horrible. Meanwhile, Jason

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<v Speaker 2>gave a toast at my wedding. As a matter of fact.

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<v Speaker 1>It's wild to me that I talked to him all

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<v Speaker 1>the time and he was somebody that was not that

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<v Speaker 1>was just not a close friend at that moment.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but you're so right in that. I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>there's so many people from that community that I they

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<v Speaker 2>somehow like merged with our DNA at that time. It's

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<v Speaker 2>like we we knew each other when we were just

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<v Speaker 2>comedy Larva wriggling around.

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<v Speaker 1>We were performing in an old strip club where sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>you'd be doing a show and people would get up

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<v Speaker 1>and leave and you're like, did I do a bad job? Like, no,

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<v Speaker 1>they just thought they were coming to a strip club,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're very confused for the first forty five minutes

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<v Speaker 1>of the show. Exactly likely, this is great, but when

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<v Speaker 1>are they going to take off their clothes?

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<v Speaker 2>I remember there was a basement that you would get

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<v Speaker 2>to through a trap door basically.

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<v Speaker 1>And here the most rookiety wooden staircase all time to

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<v Speaker 1>get down it.

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<v Speaker 2>And you would go down there and it was like

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<v Speaker 2>a grotto from from like sixteenth century Paris, wet brick

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<v Speaker 2>walls and dirt floor.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a it was a New York City catacomb,

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<v Speaker 1>if you will, that's what it was. Oh, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>you would see the craziest stuff and it was only

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<v Speaker 1>one way in and one way out. Wait, somebody was

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<v Speaker 1>giving haircuts down there, well, haircuts down there and on stage. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the one of the resident teachers.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a legend, one of the originals.

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<v Speaker 1>No audience, no audience, really crazy. That should have been

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<v Speaker 1>its own show, the Haircuts. Weirdly, it would have found

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<v Speaker 1>an audience too, I'm sure, actually more palatable than some

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<v Speaker 1>of the shows that we did experiment with. Well as

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<v Speaker 1>as one of the OG podcasters and one of one

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<v Speaker 1>of the greats in the podcasting is thank you No

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<v Speaker 1>truly like you've You've.

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<v Speaker 2>Carked out such an awesome niche. It's been so cool

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<v Speaker 2>to see you do a lot of shows in the studio,

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<v Speaker 2>you do a lot of shows live on tour. Do

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<v Speaker 2>you have a preference? I think yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>For me, I think there's something really fun about when

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<v Speaker 1>it's just Jason, June and I chatting with each other.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that that's always really a blast and we're

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<v Speaker 1>not playing for lass, but when we do it in

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<v Speaker 1>front of an audience. It's I like that. I like

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<v Speaker 1>the showmanship of it. I like I like getting out

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<v Speaker 1>in front of an audience. I like finding where the

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<v Speaker 1>jokes are, finding what they find funny, and kind of

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<v Speaker 1>chasing that because sometimes also it can get almost so

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<v Speaker 1>what I love about the studio is it's so casual

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<v Speaker 1>that sometimes you are just having a conversation and maybe

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<v Speaker 1>that's okay too, but like you forget like oh we

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<v Speaker 1>gotta like hit some more jokes or or that one

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<v Speaker 1>thing is funny, like and I didn't even think it

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<v Speaker 1>was that fun. Well, are you ready? I'm thrilled. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>such a fan of Nephu. The book was great, I

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<v Speaker 1>loved the podcast. But the thing is is I also

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<v Speaker 1>have experience with floods here because I'm not not a

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<v Speaker 1>major flood but we've I've had some flooding issues in La.

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<v Speaker 2>In La, you can't get over it.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, obviously there's natural disasters are awful, but flooding

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<v Speaker 1>is like it's infuriating because it's all there, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>all wrecked and you can see it and you can't stop.

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<v Speaker 2>It and it's and it's it.

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<v Speaker 1>You feel like powerless as the water comes in and

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<v Speaker 1>you're sleeping and I flooded. I mean I did also

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<v Speaker 1>flood my own house too, and I have experience in floods.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm excited. I'm concerned about you and your lack of

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<v Speaker 2>water maintenance. So, as I mentioned before, we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>be talking about the Johnstown flood of eighteen eighty nine.

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<v Speaker 1>Not the Jonestown. Not the Jonestown. Different flood.

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<v Speaker 2>Cool also different disaster, Yeah, very different kind of disaster.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you know anything about the Johnstown flood? Never heard

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<v Speaker 2>a thing? Okay? Oh good? Well, I mean not good.

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<v Speaker 2>You should know better, honestly. Okay, sorry, but this will

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<v Speaker 2>be fun because it's all fresh. Our story begins in

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<v Speaker 2>central southwestern Pennsylvania, a bustling, bucolic little city. Now, just

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<v Speaker 2>to orient you, Johnstown is about fifty two miles east

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<v Speaker 2>of Pittsburgh. Founded in eighteen hundred by Swiss immigrant Joseph John's.

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<v Speaker 2>It is nestled at the confluence of the Stony Creek

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<v Speaker 2>and Little Conamaw rivers. Now just fourteen miles upstream from

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<v Speaker 2>Johnstown on the Little Kanamau River is the South Fork Dam.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, cue the spooky music, because that's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be real important, real soon. I know you're you're from

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<v Speaker 2>Long Island originally. Do you know this area at all?

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<v Speaker 2>Like Western DBA, very familiar with this area. This is

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<v Speaker 2>right in my wheelhouse. As far as places I know,

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<v Speaker 2>likee from, like getaways as a family.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, look, I've been to sesame place, w

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<v Speaker 1>whag is in Pennsylvania or Hershey Park.

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<v Speaker 2>You got all the amusement parks dialed in? All right?

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<v Speaker 3>Well?

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<v Speaker 2>Eighteen eighty nine, Johnstown is thriving. It was basically the

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<v Speaker 2>rust Belt before it got rusty. Deal was king thanks

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<v Speaker 2>to the mighty Cambria Iron Company. Nearby coal mines kept

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<v Speaker 2>the fires burning, and the bustling, dense railroad lines all

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<v Speaker 2>tied it together. This was a blue collar boomtown, and

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<v Speaker 2>as a result, European immigrants were pouring in looking for work.

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<v Speaker 2>The population exploded by roughly thirty thousand people in the

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<v Speaker 2>mid eighteen hundreds. Now, on paper, Paul, explosive growth is great, right,

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<v Speaker 2>But is it always good for a community?

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<v Speaker 3>No?

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<v Speaker 1>I know, is it just an efficient way to stress

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<v Speaker 1>people out? I mean, I know this from many years

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<v Speaker 1>of playing the SIMS video game. You can't field too quick.

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<v Speaker 1>Things happen.

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<v Speaker 2>You know you can't. You can't keep supply and demand.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's a lot of jobs, but then you know

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<v Speaker 1>there're enough sewage plants exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, things happens as someone who's known you a

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<v Speaker 2>long long time. So many of us have been trying

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<v Speaker 2>to pull you out of sim City. And I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>even in the sims. I'm not even doing the people.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't. I'm so worried about when sim goes VR

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<v Speaker 2>and you'll, like, just you'll be so immersed. I got

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<v Speaker 2>to put this baseball stadium somewhere. Well, you know, rapid

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<v Speaker 2>growth can often lead to corner cutting as well, and boy,

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<v Speaker 2>will that come into play, so watch out. At some point,

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<v Speaker 2>the State of Pennsylvania, or as it's formerly known, the

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<v Speaker 2>Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, sold two of its major infrastructure assets,

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<v Speaker 2>the Western Division Canal and the aforementioned South Fork Dam,

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<v Speaker 2>to a private investor named Henry Clay Frick. All Right,

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<v Speaker 2>I hope, I wish this is the origin of the

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<v Speaker 2>term Frickin'. I don't know if that's true, but there

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<v Speaker 2>will be good reason for it.

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<v Speaker 1>Henry Clayflick does feel to me like a I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if this is the appropriate term, but like a

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<v Speaker 1>robber baron.

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<v Speaker 2>He has his name of it. Okay. He was like

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<v Speaker 2>buddies with Carnegie and Melon and all those guys. So

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<v Speaker 2>Frick was a rising industrial heavyweight in his thirties, juggling coal, steel,

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<v Speaker 2>and of course the society clubs, with a knack for

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<v Speaker 2>turning big risks into even bigger fortunes. Naturally, the steel

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<v Speaker 2>tycoons first order of business upon this purchase was to

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<v Speaker 2>convert the sleepy Lake Conomaw above the dam into wait

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<v Speaker 2>for it, the south Folk Hunting and Fishing Club. Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>because ye as we all know, rich people love to

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<v Speaker 2>hang out with other rich people and just shoot things.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean you have to. I mean you know

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<v Speaker 1>that's the thing. What are you going to do with

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<v Speaker 1>your spare time about that?

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<v Speaker 2>Now?

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<v Speaker 1>This is interesting though, because you're saying it's a working

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<v Speaker 1>class town. That now is kind of it's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>gentrifying itself in a way.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. Yes, Now, this is fourteen miles upstream of Johnstown.

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<v Speaker 2>So we're in and it's and it's a significantly higher elevation.

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<v Speaker 2>We're maybe like five hundred feet higher in the mountains.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, and I guess thirteen miles in the eighteen hundreds.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that's a that's a far day like right now

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit. Yeah, that's yeah. We ain't got the

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<v Speaker 1>model t yet.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, it's like a resort and the lake is

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<v Speaker 2>kind of dumpy when he buys it. But his goal

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<v Speaker 2>is to is to really make it this beautiful place

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<v Speaker 2>just for rich people to hang out and I guess

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<v Speaker 2>scoff at poor people maybe, is that another one of

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<v Speaker 2>their hobbies.

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<v Speaker 1>It's perfect because you're high enough and you can look down. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you can shoot a bird and then look down at

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<v Speaker 1>the poor people and laugh at them as you eat.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, your squab exactly. So to do this, to make

0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.640
<v Speaker 2>this resort, Frick and his resort investor Buddies lowered the

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<v Speaker 2>dam head to put a road across the top of it,

0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:59.600
<v Speaker 2>which reduced the dam's safety margin. He also sold off

0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.400
<v Speaker 2>the dam safety pipes and valves for scrap, and he

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<v Speaker 2>did not replace them. He slapped a fish screen over

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<v Speaker 2>the spillway to ensure good fishing. Yeah, they stocked this

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<v Speaker 2>lake with lots of good fish, because keep in mind,

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<v Speaker 2>it is a hunting and fishing club. Yeah, you got

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<v Speaker 2>to have them. You if it's in the name, you

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<v Speaker 2>got to make sure the fish are in the lake.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, and you want to make sure it's easy to

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<v Speaker 1>catch those fishes so you feel good about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you familiar stock that thing. Yeah. And now meanwhile,

0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:29.040
<v Speaker 2>they're also just patching various leaks in this dam. It's

0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:33.520
<v Speaker 2>a giant earthen dam with mud and straw and basically

0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:38.880
<v Speaker 2>treating critical infrastructure like a summer tiki bar. Now this

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<v Speaker 2>is all because some rich guys really really wanted a

0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.599
<v Speaker 2>pretty lake, and they wanted it fast and cheap. And

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, this is a kind of horrifying pattern

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<v Speaker 2>in class dynamics when rich people make terrible decisions like this.

0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.319
<v Speaker 2>Do you think it's honest ignorance with maybe a dash

0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.960
<v Speaker 2>of optimism bias, or is it just straight up willful negligence?

0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:04.480
<v Speaker 1>You know, I never think that people truly are out

0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:06.840
<v Speaker 1>to hurt other people. I don't think it's like, well,

0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:08.679
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna flood this down because it doesn't make it's

0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.920
<v Speaker 1>not good business sense. But I feel like you can

0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:15.600
<v Speaker 1>you can talk somebody into a bad idea really quickly,

0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.760
<v Speaker 1>where it's like, well, you know, we're just gonna lower that.

0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.080
<v Speaker 2>It's already high, We're just gonna lower it a little

0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:20.439
<v Speaker 2>bit we.

0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:22.560
<v Speaker 1>Need a road across the top, and it's right, and

0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:25.400
<v Speaker 1>then that's actually gonna help us. And it's a bunch

0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.560
<v Speaker 1>of small things that make sense, but then when you

0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.480
<v Speaker 1>pile them all together, it is disaster. The thing that

0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious about that you said that really jumped out

0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:37.240
<v Speaker 1>to me was like he took away the safety gauges

0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:38.280
<v Speaker 1>of the of the damn.

0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there were pipes and valves built in that that

0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.960
<v Speaker 2>were part of the release mechanism for for oh you know, it's.

0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.560
<v Speaker 1>Like that's a hard one to kind of smooth over

0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:49.280
<v Speaker 1>that for no reason.

0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:51.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, if you really dig into this, which

0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:56.120
<v Speaker 2>I encourage listeners to read more about this. David mccullaugh

0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:59.200
<v Speaker 2>wrote an incredible book about the John Sound flood, and

0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:01.720
<v Speaker 2>it's pretty I'm like you, I want to give some

0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.200
<v Speaker 2>benefit of the doubt, and because I think there's a

0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.200
<v Speaker 2>ton of just optimism bias in people like this where

0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:09.640
<v Speaker 2>it's just sort of like, I mean, this can't happen,

0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:11.840
<v Speaker 2>and it's like or this is too that's too crazy

0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.319
<v Speaker 2>to even contemplate that this whole massive dam could fail.

0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:19.360
<v Speaker 2>Sorry spoiler alert, but we're gonna we're gonna get there.

0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Wait a second. Yeah, Now, here's the good news is

0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.280
<v Speaker 2>that this club, but once it was finished, was enormously

0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.079
<v Speaker 2>successful and many of the richest men in the world

0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:34.800
<v Speaker 2>joined this club, making it instantly profitable. Now, this was

0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.439
<v Speaker 2>the largest reservoir in the country at the time. Okay,

0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.520
<v Speaker 2>it's about two miles long, roughly one mile wide, and

0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:47.320
<v Speaker 2>sixty feet deep. Lake Kanamah had basically become a summer paradise. Meanwhile,

0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:52.920
<v Speaker 2>fourteen miles downstream, Johnstown was churning away as the industrial

0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:56.240
<v Speaker 2>little trooper town that it was, and to make room

0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.200
<v Speaker 2>for this massive influx of workers that was occurring, the

0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.680
<v Speaker 2>steel mills had begun dumping a lot of their slag,

0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:05.400
<v Speaker 2>or the industrial refuge from the steelmaking process. They were

0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.120
<v Speaker 2>dumping this slag into the river to build up more

0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.120
<v Speaker 2>land where they could build more homes. Of course, this

0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.600
<v Speaker 2>had the unfortunate effect of narrowing the river bed, which

0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:17.240
<v Speaker 2>was sort of clogging it like an artery, and it

0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.880
<v Speaker 2>just was making it more prone to flooding. Basically, Johnstown

0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.440
<v Speaker 2>now had the cardiovascular health of a chain smoking borsch

0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:25.600
<v Speaker 2>belt Loungejack.

0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so we really are we're basically we've created like

0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.840
<v Speaker 1>again spoiler alert the flood. We are creating the perfect

0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.240
<v Speaker 1>the perfect storm, really like we're building it.

0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh you stole my setup. Oh no, the perfect storm. Yeah,

0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:45.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm just gonna read it anyway, but it's

0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.240
<v Speaker 2>but no, you hit it right on the head. Basically,

0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.880
<v Speaker 2>you've got an entire region undergoing massive, very short sighted

0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:54.880
<v Speaker 2>infrastructure changes, and they are all of these things are

0:14:55.080 --> 0:15:02.560
<v Speaker 2>coalescing into wait for it, say it, the per perfect storm,

0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:09.640
<v Speaker 2>which is sadly the perfect metaphor because the actual perfect

0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:15.000
<v Speaker 2>storm is about to hit. Uh. Do you ever feel

0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.760
<v Speaker 2>that that movies and history both build tension the same way,

0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.840
<v Speaker 2>Like everything kind of feels fine, and there's that that

0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.160
<v Speaker 2>first act of a movie where you're just sort of

0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:27.920
<v Speaker 2>building the Djenga tower and then.

0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.360
<v Speaker 1>Just relaxed into it and you feel like nothing can

0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.640
<v Speaker 1>go wrong. I mean, Titanic is a perfect example of it.

0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.480
<v Speaker 1>James Cameron's Titanic. You're it looks what a wonderful film,

0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 1>what a beautiful boat, what great people?

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes? And then watch Out Yeah. Oh, and also Titanic,

0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:46.080
<v Speaker 2>that's another, that's another great example of the class dynamics

0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:54.400
<v Speaker 2>at play. The storm is upon us. A note to

0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.560
<v Speaker 2>my sound editor, please add some sound effects and posts.

0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Thank you very much. It's late day. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, ye,

0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.840
<v Speaker 2>it's not very good. Yeah, you know, Michael Winslow, let's

0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:07.400
<v Speaker 2>be a man. And you know what, I lost that

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:12.680
<v Speaker 2>part to bad in the reboot of course. All right,

0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.200
<v Speaker 2>it's late. It's late May eighteen eighty nine. A low

0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.840
<v Speaker 2>pressure system, that is that had formed over Nebraska and

0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.520
<v Speaker 2>Kansas two days earlier, was now a massive storm directly

0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:26.560
<v Speaker 2>over western central Pennsylvania, and it was for real, very scary.

0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.480
<v Speaker 2>It was the heaviest rainfall ever recorded in the Eastern

0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.960
<v Speaker 2>United States to date. Estimates say that six to ten

0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.960
<v Speaker 2>inches of rain fell in twenty four hours. I always

0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.440
<v Speaker 2>feel like those metrics are like, what, like, what does

0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:40.560
<v Speaker 2>that mean? Six to ten inches isn't very tall. But

0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.560
<v Speaker 2>then you're like, oh, I guess that is actually crazy

0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:47.720
<v Speaker 2>relative to what was normal for the time. And here's

0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:49.480
<v Speaker 2>the other thing is that there were still snow in

0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:51.680
<v Speaker 2>the mountains, So the rain is falling on the snow,

0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.560
<v Speaker 2>which is creating even more water coming from the fresh

0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:58.000
<v Speaker 2>snow melt. Creeks and streams were quickly overrun, taking down

0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.640
<v Speaker 2>trees and other debris. Even telegraph lines and rail lines

0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:05.320
<v Speaker 2>were starting to come down. This is just from the rainstorm.

0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.680
<v Speaker 2>We haven't even gotten to the real disaster yet. The

0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.680
<v Speaker 2>next morning, it's May thirty first, the president of the

0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Southfolk Fishing and Hunting Club, Elias Unger, awoke in itizzy.

0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:22.480
<v Speaker 2>It was still pouring rain and as such that damn

0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:24.720
<v Speaker 2>dam damn near was overflowing.

0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:27.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, now what do you do, May, because this is

0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.520
<v Speaker 1>the moment where you know, like this is the problem

0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:35.240
<v Speaker 1>with the natural disaster. You can see it start to

0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:36.960
<v Speaker 1>come right like this is it like this morning?

0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.200
<v Speaker 2>He knows. But what can you do? You can't. You

0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.960
<v Speaker 2>almost can't do anything to stop it at this point,

0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.080
<v Speaker 2>can you? He tries. Hunger quickly gathered a group of

0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:48.680
<v Speaker 2>men to unclog the debris. They'd put a fish strainer

0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:53.200
<v Speaker 2>basically at the spillway to keep fish from leaving the lake,

0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.399
<v Speaker 2>and so that was now completely clogged with debris and

0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.720
<v Speaker 2>so no water was getting out of the lake. It

0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:04.000
<v Speaker 2>was only rising. He sent one of his engineers, John Park,

0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.720
<v Speaker 2>on a horse, down to the telegraph office.

0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:07.479
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.080
<v Speaker 2>He wanted to issue a warning to the people of Johnstown.

0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:14.400
<v Speaker 2>The damn was in danger of collapsing. Get out of there. Yeah,

0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.800
<v Speaker 2>Now what the fantastic four new Glactus is coming there.

0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:20.720
<v Speaker 2>Get out. Get out of the city, guys, get out

0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:22.160
<v Speaker 2>of the city. I don't know what you're talking about,

0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:27.640
<v Speaker 2>but yes, exactly. This was tricky for two reasons. Number one,

0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:31.320
<v Speaker 2>I would think that if like under this kind of duress,

0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:35.040
<v Speaker 2>like sending a telegraph message actually tapping the thing, oh,

0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:38.960
<v Speaker 2>it must have been like like so hard to do, right,

0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.720
<v Speaker 2>Like you're just like because you're probably shaking, you're trembling,

0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:44.639
<v Speaker 2>and it's like, well.

0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:46.600
<v Speaker 1>That's why you have to hire the best. It's like,

0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:49.560
<v Speaker 1>you have to hire the best telegraph They have to

0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.200
<v Speaker 1>be emotionless, you know, whether you're you're breaking up with

0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.200
<v Speaker 1>your husband, you're telling somebody the loved one has died,

0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:57.680
<v Speaker 1>or telling you that the an impending flood is happening.

0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, to make matters worse, a telegraph line were down,

0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Well they're down, so we're didn't even didn't even get there.

0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.640
<v Speaker 2>No messages were sent to Johnstown. And even so there

0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.359
<v Speaker 2>were people racing down on horses and stuff, telling people.

0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:14.080
<v Speaker 2>But there had been so many false alarms that the

0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.040
<v Speaker 2>damn was going to burst over the previous decades that

0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.080
<v Speaker 2>that there was also a kind of like blase sense

0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:20.480
<v Speaker 2>about it.

0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:24.000
<v Speaker 1>This is the sky is falling kind of chicken little moment. Yeah,

0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:27.400
<v Speaker 1>And this is why I think again, like we prepare

0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.800
<v Speaker 1>a lot for something terrible. You know, you're always like

0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.120
<v Speaker 1>ready for something bad to happen. And then I would

0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:39.520
<v Speaker 1>say ninety five percent of the time the worst version

0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.119
<v Speaker 1>doesn't happen, but you know, and then you're, oh, I

0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:43.080
<v Speaker 1>prepared for nothing.

0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:43.880
<v Speaker 2>I did all the things.

0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:46.200
<v Speaker 1>So I can imagine here that they've probably had some

0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:48.480
<v Speaker 1>moments like Okay, you know, they're not gonna they're not

0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:48.879
<v Speaker 1>buying it.

0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.840
<v Speaker 2>That's the whole cry wolf scenario. You get kind of

0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.800
<v Speaker 2>tired of freaking out and who knows. But this one,

0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.440
<v Speaker 2>this one was real and it was real, real bad.

0:19:57.800 --> 0:19:59.440
<v Speaker 2>There was a lot of drama at the top of

0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.360
<v Speaker 2>the damn. Some guys were trying to actually stack more

0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:05.639
<v Speaker 2>material on the top of it, but they could feel

0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:08.600
<v Speaker 2>the dam moving and so they got off and that

0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.240
<v Speaker 2>younger guy was like, get out there, and they were like, no,

0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.080
<v Speaker 2>we're not going. Is this like an earth dam? Yes.

0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:18.200
<v Speaker 2>What's interesting about this type of dam is that when

0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:23.879
<v Speaker 2>they do breach, it is almost always catastrophic because the

0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:29.240
<v Speaker 2>flow of water instantly compromises the entire structure, and it

0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:34.120
<v Speaker 2>begins just washing out the material of the dam as

0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:37.399
<v Speaker 2>you can imagine. So at two point fifty pm, the

0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:41.720
<v Speaker 2>dam is finally compromised and it collapses and the water

0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:48.160
<v Speaker 2>just comes rushing out. Now, South Fork is the first

0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.360
<v Speaker 2>little town to be hit by this flood. The town

0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:53.920
<v Speaker 2>thankfully is on a little bit higher ground, but twenty

0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:57.199
<v Speaker 2>or thirty houses were still destroyed. Tragically, four people were

0:20:57.280 --> 0:20:59.600
<v Speaker 2>killed in South Fork. The rest of the citizens were

0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:02.280
<v Speaker 2>able to get to safety and time, but this flood

0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:05.639
<v Speaker 2>was just beginning and a word of warning, it's about

0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.800
<v Speaker 2>to get real grim. I got to ask you, Paul,

0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:13.120
<v Speaker 2>if you were in like Johnstown or South Fork that day,

0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.560
<v Speaker 2>would you be the guy like calmly sandbagging or you

0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.200
<v Speaker 2>the guy sprinting for higher ground like it's the last

0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:20.320
<v Speaker 2>chopper out of Saigon.

0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:25.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's interesting. My uh, my gut is always

0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:29.960
<v Speaker 1>to be the calm sandbagger. My wife's job is to

0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.840
<v Speaker 1>get the hell out, and that might be your job.

0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.160
<v Speaker 2>But what what are you doing? Like, what's your what's

0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:38.800
<v Speaker 2>your what is your adrenaline telling you to do?

0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:40.480
<v Speaker 1>I always say that my wife and I are like

0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:42.320
<v Speaker 1>kind of Kirk and Spock the way we look at

0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:44.480
<v Speaker 1>things like, I'm I'm looking at it very logically, and

0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:45.639
<v Speaker 1>my wife is like, let us go.

0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:46.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh. I love that.

0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:50.360
<v Speaker 1>I think in this moment, uh, you know, look, if

0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:52.159
<v Speaker 1>my wife gets the urge to run, I'm going to

0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:52.639
<v Speaker 1>be following her.

0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:54.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think at a certain point it's like, you know,

0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.560
<v Speaker 2>when it's this insane and we're about to hear more

0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:00.760
<v Speaker 2>about it, it's like, you just run best you can.

0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.160
<v Speaker 2>The flood raced down the fourteen miles of the Little

0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:09.400
<v Speaker 2>Konama River Valley, destroying everything in its path.

0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:12.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean, how quickly in seconds is minutes? What have

0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:13.200
<v Speaker 1>we got here?

0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:16.120
<v Speaker 2>It's moving a lot faster than you can run. I'll

0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:18.800
<v Speaker 2>put it that way, okay. At one point, the flood

0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:21.800
<v Speaker 2>was briefly stopped by railroad bridge, but it eventually pushed

0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:25.760
<v Speaker 2>past the bridge, gaining even more momentum. It raced through

0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:30.440
<v Speaker 2>to more small towns with massive force, destroying literally everything.

0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:33.760
<v Speaker 2>At this point, because the gorge is so deep, it's

0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:35.800
<v Speaker 2>sort of like funneled, and the force of the water

0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:38.440
<v Speaker 2>is so intense that it wipes these towns out to

0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:42.000
<v Speaker 2>the bedrock. There is nothing but bedrock left in the

0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:47.159
<v Speaker 2>wake of the flood, and then Johnstown residents heard a

0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:50.159
<v Speaker 2>deafening roar before they saw it, but most even had

0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:53.120
<v Speaker 2>no idea that this roar could be a flood. Suddenly,

0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:58.440
<v Speaker 2>a massive wall of debris slammed into first the Cambria

0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:03.960
<v Speaker 2>Iron Works. The water swept up railroad cars, barbed wire,

0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.320
<v Speaker 2>which was a product of these steel of these steel plants.

0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:12.119
<v Speaker 2>It then reached Gautier Wireworks, causing boilers to explode and

0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:16.600
<v Speaker 2>emit black smoke, just making it a more nightmarish scenario.

0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:19.960
<v Speaker 2>Just fifty seven minutes after the collapse of the dam,

0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:23.680
<v Speaker 2>the flood reached the center of Johnstown, moving at a

0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:28.000
<v Speaker 2>whopping forty miles per hour, and it was up to

0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:31.960
<v Speaker 2>sixty feet high in some places. This wall of water

0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:35.960
<v Speaker 2>and debris that was just like, you know, just rushing through.

0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:38.760
<v Speaker 1>Even knowing everything that I know in the movies that

0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:41.280
<v Speaker 1>I've watched, and many of them like Day after Tomorrow,

0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:46.760
<v Speaker 1>great films, the but like that sixty feet of water, right,

0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:49.000
<v Speaker 1>and it's like and you're not You're not an island.

0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:51.800
<v Speaker 1>It's not a tsunami, but it is acting like ana

0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:53.560
<v Speaker 1>in a way. It really is acting a lot like

0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:57.200
<v Speaker 1>a tsunami and or an avalanche. It's sort of a

0:23:57.280 --> 0:23:58.280
<v Speaker 1>combination of the two.

0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:00.560
<v Speaker 2>And I remember, it's so funny because when I was

0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:03.399
<v Speaker 2>a kid, you know, I would hear about tsunamis and

0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:06.680
<v Speaker 2>I would be like, no big deal. I can swim.

0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:09.760
<v Speaker 2>I can serve a good swimmer, you know, But like

0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:15.720
<v Speaker 2>in this situation, you can't. Like, it doesn't even matter

0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:18.800
<v Speaker 2>how how comfortable you are in the water, how good

0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:21.800
<v Speaker 2>a swimmer you are, because there is it's barely water.

0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:25.040
<v Speaker 2>It's just it's like debris. Yeah, you're you have a

0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:29.840
<v Speaker 2>train wrapped in barbed wire heading for you, swimmer. Yes. Yes.

0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:34.479
<v Speaker 2>Johnstown residents were either crushed by debris or caught up

0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:37.000
<v Speaker 2>in the barbed wire, or drowned in their homes or

0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:40.720
<v Speaker 2>places of work. Some folks were able to stay afloat

0:24:40.800 --> 0:24:44.240
<v Speaker 2>on debris waiting for help. Most people in this situation,

0:24:44.720 --> 0:24:47.960
<v Speaker 2>they're it's they're overtaken so quickly and there's so much

0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:53.320
<v Speaker 2>panic and chaos that you're just grasping for anything that

0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:54.280
<v Speaker 2>you can grab onto.

0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:56.760
<v Speaker 1>But this is why I travel with two hundred pound

0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:58.960
<v Speaker 1>weights on me at all times, just in case, you know,

0:24:59.040 --> 0:24:59.760
<v Speaker 1>and keeps me ground.

0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:02.480
<v Speaker 2>Know you're legendary in the rucking community.

0:25:02.760 --> 0:25:04.880
<v Speaker 1>It's and it's a hard of go to restaurants things

0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:06.000
<v Speaker 1>that goes out, but I'm ready for it.

0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:07.760
<v Speaker 2>It's a pain for all of us who are friends

0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:09.800
<v Speaker 2>with you, but yeah, it's very cool. We respect you

0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:11.520
<v Speaker 2>for it. Thank you. Yeah, and this is kind of

0:25:11.560 --> 0:25:14.280
<v Speaker 2>reminiscent of Rose in the Titanic, right, you brought in

0:25:14.400 --> 0:25:20.600
<v Speaker 2>the Titanic. She found a chunk of something to cling to. Yeah,

0:25:20.920 --> 0:25:22.840
<v Speaker 2>I feel like there was room for Leo to have

0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:25.000
<v Speaker 2>climbed up on there. But it's a big debate. I

0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:27.919
<v Speaker 2>don't know, Well, you know, what did you bring this up?

0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:28.959
<v Speaker 2>This just came up.

0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Now, obviously MythBusters put it to the test, but James

0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:38.119
<v Speaker 1>Cameron was not happy with MythBusters and recently recreated the

0:25:38.359 --> 0:25:42.840
<v Speaker 1>water temperature and the thing and basically proved that at

0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:46.280
<v Speaker 1>the rate that Leo was hyperventilating and freezing, he could

0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:51.400
<v Speaker 1>not have stayed that. Funny, it just I just saw

0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:53.200
<v Speaker 1>it the other day, like he just did it the

0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:55.960
<v Speaker 1>other debt. It's amazing, which is really funny to.

0:25:56.000 --> 0:25:59.000
<v Speaker 2>Me, so fun weird, little I wouldn't may maybe not

0:25:59.080 --> 0:26:02.680
<v Speaker 2>a fun fact, but little additional Titanic connection here is

0:26:02.720 --> 0:26:07.080
<v Speaker 2>that our buddy Frick had actually canceled his Titanic ticket

0:26:07.640 --> 0:26:09.919
<v Speaker 2>because his wife had had a sprained ankle and had

0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:12.840
<v Speaker 2>to be hospitalized. So this guy, he can avoid a

0:26:12.920 --> 0:26:16.000
<v Speaker 2>disaster here and there. Anyway, back in the middle of Johnstown,

0:26:16.280 --> 0:26:21.240
<v Speaker 2>this is crazy. The Pennsylvania Railroad stone Bridge, which was

0:26:21.359 --> 0:26:25.119
<v Speaker 2>this huge stone bridge in the middle of Johnstown. It

0:26:25.240 --> 0:26:28.879
<v Speaker 2>became this kind of catch all filter which was so

0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:33.200
<v Speaker 2>building up in this bridge was all of these twisted

0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:36.800
<v Speaker 2>train rails and box cars and barbed wire and entire

0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:40.639
<v Speaker 2>buildings and yes, sadly, of course, lots of bodies piling

0:26:40.720 --> 0:26:44.560
<v Speaker 2>up against it, forming a temporary dam. Now, this dam,

0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:51.679
<v Speaker 2>which was sort of catching the flood, redirected floodwaters upstream

0:26:52.240 --> 0:26:55.520
<v Speaker 2>of the Stony Creek, which is the other river that

0:26:56.119 --> 0:26:59.639
<v Speaker 2>kind of comes into the town of Johnstown. So now

0:26:59.680 --> 0:27:03.359
<v Speaker 2>there's there's the flood is going upstream Stony Creek. It

0:27:03.480 --> 0:27:06.720
<v Speaker 2>reaches a sort of a point where gravity then overtakes

0:27:06.800 --> 0:27:11.800
<v Speaker 2>it again and pulls it back, unleashing ace, unleashing a

0:27:12.080 --> 0:27:15.879
<v Speaker 2>second wave that floods back into the city from the

0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:19.359
<v Speaker 2>opposite direction, which is just completely bonkers.

0:27:19.800 --> 0:27:23.920
<v Speaker 1>It's almost overwhelming to even comprehend what is going on?

0:27:24.200 --> 0:27:26.760
<v Speaker 1>It sounds like whoa but to be in it, to

0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:28.959
<v Speaker 1>be there, It just seems like, well, no one can

0:27:29.040 --> 0:27:32.879
<v Speaker 1>survive this. This is this is an insurvivable situation that

0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:33.880
<v Speaker 1>you have presented.

0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:38.560
<v Speaker 2>It is nuts. Now it's about to get even more nuts.

0:27:38.600 --> 0:27:41.879
<v Speaker 2>If you were writing this script, Paul Scheer, and you

0:27:42.000 --> 0:27:45.520
<v Speaker 2>wanted things to get even worse in this moment, what

0:27:45.600 --> 0:27:46.000
<v Speaker 2>would you do?

0:27:46.400 --> 0:27:48.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I want to break another dam. I want

0:27:48.240 --> 0:27:52.119
<v Speaker 1>to I don't know, maybe a dual dams or gosh,

0:27:52.200 --> 0:27:54.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, come on, think it through a fire. We

0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:56.840
<v Speaker 1>gotta have a fire. So we gotta have a fire. Okay,

0:27:56.920 --> 0:28:00.920
<v Speaker 1>here's how things actually spiraled even more. Let's just throw

0:28:01.000 --> 0:28:04.480
<v Speaker 1>in a completely new kind of natural disaster. The massive

0:28:04.600 --> 0:28:08.520
<v Speaker 1>pile of flood debris at the Stone Bridge suddenly caught fire.

0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:11.440
<v Speaker 1>At least eighty people were trapped inside the wreckage and

0:28:11.640 --> 0:28:15.440
<v Speaker 1>killed just in this inferno. The fire raged for three

0:28:15.800 --> 0:28:18.440
<v Speaker 1>full days, lighting up the ruins of the city, which

0:28:18.480 --> 0:28:22.200
<v Speaker 1>is just heartbreaking and incredible. Well, I imagine there's also gasoline,

0:28:22.200 --> 0:28:24.680
<v Speaker 1>there's things that there's oil in there, there's things that fire.

0:28:24.760 --> 0:28:28.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all the industrial waste of a big industrial town

0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:29.680
<v Speaker 2>like piled up in there.

0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:33.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's gonna that's gonna keep it going. And trees

0:28:33.280 --> 0:28:36.840
<v Speaker 1>like trees, which is just fire fuel. It's just like

0:28:36.920 --> 0:28:39.120
<v Speaker 1>a big old mass of tons of trees that had

0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:42.920
<v Speaker 1>been ripped out. So we got black smoke, we got waves,

0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:46.120
<v Speaker 1>we got fires. This is truly a nightmare of this

0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:46.720
<v Speaker 1>is epic.

0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:47.880
<v Speaker 2>It's epic.

0:28:47.960 --> 0:28:49.959
<v Speaker 1>This is like going on the ride at Universe Studios

0:28:49.960 --> 0:28:51.320
<v Speaker 1>where they recreate the earthquake.

0:28:51.560 --> 0:28:53.400
<v Speaker 2>We're seeing of it. I'm gonna say it's a little

0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:57.840
<v Speaker 2>worse than that, obviously, maybe k yeah, okay, all right, yeah,

0:28:58.080 --> 0:29:04.800
<v Speaker 2>maybe they threw the the bag. So by the time

0:29:04.880 --> 0:29:08.800
<v Speaker 2>this fire actually died out, the flood waters had receded,

0:29:09.080 --> 0:29:14.240
<v Speaker 2>and Johnstown was left with a staggering thirty acre heap

0:29:14.400 --> 0:29:19.520
<v Speaker 2>of wreckage. Oh my lord, in some places seventy feet

0:29:19.640 --> 0:29:23.680
<v Speaker 2>high just the wreckage. This would take nearly three months

0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:29.040
<v Speaker 2>to clear out. We have a famous image taken from

0:29:29.080 --> 0:29:31.920
<v Speaker 2>the cleanup here. This is the Schultz family house. The

0:29:32.000 --> 0:29:37.480
<v Speaker 2>six people living in that house survived. Wow. This is

0:29:37.560 --> 0:29:40.080
<v Speaker 2>an iconic photo that a lot of people think just

0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:43.800
<v Speaker 2>sort of captures the insanity. There's so much cognitive dissonance

0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:44.360
<v Speaker 2>looking at that.

0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:48.040
<v Speaker 1>It clearly went on a little bit of a journey,

0:29:48.160 --> 0:29:51.440
<v Speaker 1>like this house is and not where it was, and wow,

0:29:51.520 --> 0:29:54.840
<v Speaker 1>and the way that that tree goes through, like if

0:29:54.880 --> 0:29:57.000
<v Speaker 1>you were picturing the house is like two eyes in

0:29:57.080 --> 0:29:58.920
<v Speaker 1>a mouth. It's gone through one of the eyes of

0:29:59.000 --> 0:30:02.440
<v Speaker 1>the top half of the windows there, and it's really yeah,

0:30:02.480 --> 0:30:03.240
<v Speaker 1>oh it's massive.

0:30:03.280 --> 0:30:05.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh he'll need a glass eye for sure. I mean,

0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:10.280
<v Speaker 2>let's get into the aftermath. The magnitude of the Johnstown

0:30:10.360 --> 0:30:14.640
<v Speaker 2>flood was unimaginable. It ended in seventeen million in damage,

0:30:14.680 --> 0:30:17.400
<v Speaker 2>which is six hundred million today. And this is a

0:30:17.440 --> 0:30:19.280
<v Speaker 2>Remember this is a town of thirty thousand people. It's

0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:22.360
<v Speaker 2>not like New York City, Like this is just an

0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:27.240
<v Speaker 2>epic wipeout for this town. Two thousand, two hundred and

0:30:27.400 --> 0:30:31.080
<v Speaker 2>nine people were killed, which made it the largest loss

0:30:31.160 --> 0:30:35.360
<v Speaker 2>of civilian life my lord at the time.

0:30:35.680 --> 0:30:38.720
<v Speaker 1>All because a hunting and fishing club wanted to catch

0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:40.320
<v Speaker 1>some fish a little bit easier.

0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, I guess, yeah, but yeah, I mean did you

0:30:44.400 --> 0:30:47.120
<v Speaker 2>taste those fishball? I mean, it was so easy to catch,

0:30:47.400 --> 0:30:50.000
<v Speaker 2>so easy to catch those fish. The loss of life

0:30:50.160 --> 0:30:54.000
<v Speaker 2>was epic, and it wouldn't be surpassed until nineteen hundred

0:30:54.360 --> 0:30:58.480
<v Speaker 2>when the Galveston hurricane hit, which was also another topic

0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:02.400
<v Speaker 2>natural disaster. This is crazy. There were even reports of

0:31:02.480 --> 0:31:07.840
<v Speaker 2>the flood carrying bodies as far as Cincinnati, Ohio like

0:31:08.280 --> 0:31:13.920
<v Speaker 2>way way down river. Reportedly, one baby survived on the

0:31:14.040 --> 0:31:17.920
<v Speaker 2>floor of a house as it floated seventy five miles

0:31:18.120 --> 0:31:19.520
<v Speaker 2>downriver from Johnstown.

0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:22.160
<v Speaker 1>Isn't that like baby Moses? Didn't they put baby Moses

0:31:22.240 --> 0:31:24.200
<v Speaker 1>in one of those like a little carrier in the water.

0:31:24.320 --> 0:31:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Is that baby Moses?

0:31:25.040 --> 0:31:27.160
<v Speaker 2>But he didn't wash away? They just hit him in

0:31:27.200 --> 0:31:27.719
<v Speaker 2>the reeds.

0:31:28.040 --> 0:31:33.240
<v Speaker 3>And my buddy, Yeah, this little baby washed away seventy

0:31:33.280 --> 0:31:38.120
<v Speaker 3>seventy five miles away, and wow, and it was fine.

0:31:38.240 --> 0:31:43.600
<v Speaker 2>And that little baby grew up to be me well ed. Ah,

0:31:46.680 --> 0:31:50.680
<v Speaker 2>all right. So news spread rapidly to the surrounding areas,

0:31:50.960 --> 0:31:55.080
<v Speaker 2>and support was provided in the form of clothing, disinfectants,

0:31:56.080 --> 0:32:01.840
<v Speaker 2>fish bread, cigars, whiskey, and weirdly, twenty pounds of ham,

0:32:03.080 --> 0:32:06.040
<v Speaker 2>among other useful items. There's a lot more to this

0:32:06.160 --> 0:32:09.320
<v Speaker 2>recovery effort that I wish I could get into more,

0:32:09.360 --> 0:32:11.920
<v Speaker 2>because it's incredibly beautiful and cool. But this is one

0:32:11.960 --> 0:32:16.680
<v Speaker 2>of the first large scale rescue efforts by the American

0:32:16.760 --> 0:32:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Red Cross and It's sort of like a huge scale

0:32:20.920 --> 0:32:23.400
<v Speaker 2>disaster relief and it really kind of changed the game

0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:24.920
<v Speaker 2>for disaster response.

0:32:25.480 --> 0:32:27.880
<v Speaker 1>When you were saying this, I was starting to put

0:32:27.880 --> 0:32:30.120
<v Speaker 1>together things. I remember, is this the first time that

0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:32.600
<v Speaker 1>the Red Cross exists? Or no, the Red Cross didn't exist,

0:32:32.640 --> 0:32:34.160
<v Speaker 1>but this is the first time they were called into action.

0:32:34.320 --> 0:32:35.760
<v Speaker 1>I think it's the first time they were called into

0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:40.120
<v Speaker 1>action in this capacity. Clara Barton was a huge part

0:32:40.160 --> 0:32:42.400
<v Speaker 1>of this recovery effort and stayed in the region for

0:32:42.880 --> 0:32:46.880
<v Speaker 1>a long period of time, kind of running logistics and

0:32:47.400 --> 0:32:51.440
<v Speaker 1>just further cemented her legendary status as a humanitarian. There's

0:32:51.440 --> 0:32:53.479
<v Speaker 1>a part of me it goes, do you I mean,

0:32:53.520 --> 0:32:55.880
<v Speaker 1>I guess you have to rebuild on some level you

0:32:56.040 --> 0:32:58.600
<v Speaker 1>have to, But should I mean, I don't know. It's

0:32:58.640 --> 0:33:01.240
<v Speaker 1>like is it worth Is it worth rebuilding? Because it

0:33:01.320 --> 0:33:03.200
<v Speaker 1>could all happen again? And this is kind of the

0:33:03.320 --> 0:33:05.240
<v Speaker 1>same thing that happens in New Orleans when the dam

0:33:05.360 --> 0:33:07.960
<v Speaker 1>broke in New Orleans? Is this too dangerous to do again?

0:33:08.080 --> 0:33:10.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean? Or do they find a way to just go?

0:33:10.520 --> 0:33:13.040
<v Speaker 1>You know what, We're gonna put more safety measures in yet.

0:33:12.920 --> 0:33:15.360
<v Speaker 2>Paul, I think you're forgetting that we're as a species

0:33:15.480 --> 0:33:19.959
<v Speaker 2>like we're basically cockroaches, Like we just we just got

0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:22.920
<v Speaker 2>to make it work wherever the hell we are and

0:33:23.520 --> 0:33:27.760
<v Speaker 2>uh acres and start going again. Yeah, you're asking questions

0:33:27.880 --> 0:33:32.680
<v Speaker 2>that really have no place here, Paul. No, but but

0:33:32.960 --> 0:33:37.160
<v Speaker 2>but there certainly were a lot of kind of infrastructure

0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:41.440
<v Speaker 2>considerations that went into the redevelopment and rebuilding of John's

0:33:41.480 --> 0:33:45.240
<v Speaker 2>Town and the entire region that had been rather carelessly

0:33:45.360 --> 0:33:49.440
<v Speaker 2>handled and or completely overlooked obviously beforehand. The answer is, yes,

0:33:49.600 --> 0:33:52.800
<v Speaker 2>they rebuilt. They felt the need to rebuild. It was

0:33:52.840 --> 0:33:57.080
<v Speaker 2>a very strategic location for so many some of the

0:33:57.160 --> 0:34:00.680
<v Speaker 2>industries at the time, and it was rebuilt a lot

0:34:00.760 --> 0:34:04.080
<v Speaker 2>more safely. That did not prevent future floods. Unfortunately, there

0:34:04.160 --> 0:34:08.319
<v Speaker 2>were future floods in Johnstown and still are time to time.

0:34:08.440 --> 0:34:11.440
<v Speaker 2>But but it is it is much safer than, of

0:34:11.480 --> 0:34:12.239
<v Speaker 2>course it was.

0:34:13.000 --> 0:34:15.319
<v Speaker 1>But the fishing has gone down, and and that's why

0:34:15.560 --> 0:34:18.279
<v Speaker 1>that's why I stopped, you know, being a member of

0:34:18.360 --> 0:34:21.839
<v Speaker 1>that club, because the back when the fishing was good

0:34:21.840 --> 0:34:23.560
<v Speaker 1>for a little bit, and they really you know, it

0:34:23.680 --> 0:34:25.920
<v Speaker 1>went down here after that. No one talks about that.

0:34:26.160 --> 0:34:28.160
<v Speaker 1>No one talks about how the fishing and that club

0:34:28.239 --> 0:34:28.640
<v Speaker 1>went down.

0:34:28.680 --> 0:34:33.239
<v Speaker 2>Now you know what, there's a reason for that, Paul.

0:34:34.360 --> 0:34:35.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm just being honest.

0:34:35.160 --> 0:34:38.239
<v Speaker 1>That's a kind of a shitty take, because, like I mean,

0:34:38.760 --> 0:34:41.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm paying top dollar to be in this hunting fishing

0:34:41.160 --> 0:34:42.000
<v Speaker 1>club and I've got a lot.

0:34:41.880 --> 0:34:49.360
<v Speaker 2>Of auntish fishing really good, right, damn it? Okay, So

0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:53.720
<v Speaker 2>let me just throw this out there, because in times

0:34:53.800 --> 0:34:56.959
<v Speaker 2>of disaster or mass casualties like this, I think something

0:34:57.040 --> 0:35:00.759
<v Speaker 2>incredible about human nature emerges. We raw for each other.

0:35:00.880 --> 0:35:02.680
<v Speaker 2>We were just talking about some of the rescue efforts

0:35:02.719 --> 0:35:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Claire Barton among others, and all of these incredible resources

0:35:06.640 --> 0:35:09.960
<v Speaker 2>that just flooded into the region. Sorry for the terrible metaphor,

0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:14.960
<v Speaker 2>but so much support came just kicked in from all around.

0:35:16.719 --> 0:35:18.799
<v Speaker 2>We rally for each other, We come together, We help

0:35:18.840 --> 0:35:21.120
<v Speaker 2>each other in these ways that might have seemed unthinkable

0:35:21.239 --> 0:35:23.759
<v Speaker 2>just a day before a tragedy like this. Do you

0:35:24.239 --> 0:35:26.840
<v Speaker 2>agree that this is such an incredible thing of humanity?

0:35:27.000 --> 0:35:29.759
<v Speaker 2>Do you see it around you sometimes? And why is

0:35:29.800 --> 0:35:32.399
<v Speaker 2>it so fucking rare? Not that it's rare, but why

0:35:32.440 --> 0:35:34.680
<v Speaker 2>do we have to wait for disasters for this side

0:35:34.719 --> 0:35:35.520
<v Speaker 2>of us to emerge?

0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:38.879
<v Speaker 1>I you know, it's interesting. I will say that being

0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:42.040
<v Speaker 1>in New York City during nine to eleven. It was

0:35:42.880 --> 0:35:44.600
<v Speaker 1>I talk about this is like one of the most

0:35:45.040 --> 0:35:48.760
<v Speaker 1>beautiful times post one to eleven in the sense of agreed,

0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:53.400
<v Speaker 1>the way that the city came together neighbors and you know,

0:35:53.520 --> 0:35:56.799
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of there's a lot of good will. Yeah,

0:35:56.960 --> 0:35:59.320
<v Speaker 1>and you know we even see out here at the

0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:02.160
<v Speaker 1>fires that happened this year, like there's a lot of

0:36:03.000 --> 0:36:04.800
<v Speaker 1>how do we make a difference, how do we pull together?

0:36:04.840 --> 0:36:08.800
<v Speaker 1>And you're right, and I think that ultimately we are society,

0:36:08.960 --> 0:36:13.040
<v Speaker 1>you're cockroaches. We fall into patterns, and there are many

0:36:13.080 --> 0:36:16.399
<v Speaker 1>people like a Claire Barton and many other wonderful people

0:36:16.440 --> 0:36:20.960
<v Speaker 1>who devote their lives to making sure that everybody has

0:36:21.080 --> 0:36:27.040
<v Speaker 1>the same access to whatever, and we just get selfish

0:36:27.080 --> 0:36:28.440
<v Speaker 1>and we forget and we forget about it. And then

0:36:28.440 --> 0:36:30.120
<v Speaker 1>every now and then we see a commercial or we

0:36:30.239 --> 0:36:32.160
<v Speaker 1>hear about something, or we get caught up because we

0:36:32.280 --> 0:36:33.920
<v Speaker 1>have a personal connection to it, and then we move

0:36:34.000 --> 0:36:35.759
<v Speaker 1>into action. But every now and then, when there's something

0:36:35.800 --> 0:36:39.440
<v Speaker 1>that is undeniable where everybody kind of kicks and it's it's.

0:36:39.480 --> 0:36:42.200
<v Speaker 2>It's the best of us, yea, The worst of us

0:36:42.280 --> 0:36:44.600
<v Speaker 2>can bring out the best of us. Now, of course,

0:36:44.680 --> 0:36:46.840
<v Speaker 2>as soon as the floodwater was dry, people began to

0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:49.920
<v Speaker 2>look for someone to blame for the tragedy, and it

0:36:50.120 --> 0:36:53.839
<v Speaker 2>wasn't long before the town turned to the south Folk

0:36:53.960 --> 0:36:56.279
<v Speaker 2>Fishing and Hunting Club, which you have to say, like that,

0:36:56.560 --> 0:37:01.080
<v Speaker 2>the South Southfolk Fishing Hunting Con and of course our

0:37:01.120 --> 0:37:03.840
<v Speaker 2>old friend Henry Clay Frick.

0:37:04.360 --> 0:37:06.440
<v Speaker 1>Now here's the question that I got for you. If

0:37:06.440 --> 0:37:08.319
<v Speaker 1>I'm Henry Frick, I'm like, maybe I should have gone

0:37:08.320 --> 0:37:10.279
<v Speaker 1>on that Titanic because I don't want to face the

0:37:10.560 --> 0:37:12.520
<v Speaker 1>wrath well of this town.

0:37:12.680 --> 0:37:15.239
<v Speaker 2>He's gonna be fine, don't worry, Okay. Survivors of the

0:37:15.280 --> 0:37:18.920
<v Speaker 2>flood sued the club. The American Society of Civil Engineers

0:37:19.080 --> 0:37:23.279
<v Speaker 2>launched a massive investigation. It ultimately concluded that while the

0:37:23.360 --> 0:37:26.480
<v Speaker 2>dam was modified to be less secure, it would have

0:37:26.560 --> 0:37:31.120
<v Speaker 2>failed either way. Now, it should be noted that the

0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:36.200
<v Speaker 2>American Society of Civil Engineers was bankrolled by legendary tycoon

0:37:36.680 --> 0:37:41.719
<v Speaker 2>Andrew Carnegie. Wow Okay, okay, himself a member of the

0:37:41.880 --> 0:37:44.440
<v Speaker 2>South Fork Hunting and Fishing Club. Of course he was.

0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:47.640
<v Speaker 2>It was good fishing. So perhaps they were not the

0:37:47.840 --> 0:37:53.040
<v Speaker 2>most neutral referee in this matter. And indeed, more research

0:37:53.920 --> 0:37:59.880
<v Speaker 2>in recent times has very much questioned those findings. Still,

0:38:00.200 --> 0:38:03.400
<v Speaker 2>the courts ultimately ruled the flood was merely a quote

0:38:03.960 --> 0:38:05.080
<v Speaker 2>act of God.

0:38:05.880 --> 0:38:08.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, here's something that's interesting about it. This

0:38:09.080 --> 0:38:14.600
<v Speaker 1>is a bona fide natural disaster that maybe in a

0:38:14.640 --> 0:38:19.160
<v Speaker 1>way was worsened by damn precautions or maybe even staved

0:38:19.200 --> 0:38:21.080
<v Speaker 1>off for I don't know, Like you don't know. I

0:38:21.120 --> 0:38:25.760
<v Speaker 1>think that sometimes these are the things that change our lives.

0:38:25.920 --> 0:38:29.320
<v Speaker 1>The Titanic is sent like created all these regulations, like

0:38:29.360 --> 0:38:30.759
<v Speaker 1>these OCEHA regulations, these.

0:38:30.680 --> 0:38:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Things that we would never have. I think you're being generous.

0:38:33.160 --> 0:38:34.840
<v Speaker 2>Why am I on the side of the tacooons They

0:38:34.840 --> 0:38:37.040
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't be on there. Always you're always thinking of for

0:38:37.200 --> 0:38:40.000
<v Speaker 2>the for the moneyed interests. I just want to get that.

0:38:40.200 --> 0:38:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I want to get that membership from back. Whether or

0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:45.880
<v Speaker 2>not it was criminal, we can never know necessarily, but

0:38:47.160 --> 0:38:50.040
<v Speaker 2>but that bad mistakes were made. There's more details about

0:38:50.880 --> 0:38:54.680
<v Speaker 2>someone who was offering to make the necessary fixes to

0:38:54.840 --> 0:38:58.320
<v Speaker 2>the damn in advance of of all of this, and

0:38:58.560 --> 0:39:01.040
<v Speaker 2>and they were just like I would be to inconvenient

0:39:01.080 --> 0:39:02.480
<v Speaker 2>for the club, so we're not going to do it.

0:39:02.560 --> 0:39:03.879
<v Speaker 1>And well, yeah, because you don't want to have those

0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:05.800
<v Speaker 1>people out there working. When you catch a fish, you

0:39:05.800 --> 0:39:09.560
<v Speaker 1>don't bang and bang. Well, they probably have to drain

0:39:09.640 --> 0:39:11.960
<v Speaker 1>the lake in order to make come here for peace

0:39:12.040 --> 0:39:14.239
<v Speaker 1>of mind to get a bang bang bang bang bang.

0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly right. Well, either way, without a legal obligation

0:39:17.120 --> 0:39:21.400
<v Speaker 2>to do so, Frick and the club never accepted responsibility.

0:39:21.480 --> 0:39:24.280
<v Speaker 2>This is what This is a very common theme throughout

0:39:24.360 --> 0:39:27.759
<v Speaker 2>my study of tafoos. Virtually no one ever is held

0:39:27.800 --> 0:39:32.040
<v Speaker 2>accountable in any way. Frick, however, did go on to

0:39:32.120 --> 0:39:35.400
<v Speaker 2>be embroiled in other controversies, and he even did a

0:39:35.440 --> 0:39:39.480
<v Speaker 2>few good things. Also, he amassed the incredible Frick art

0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:42.319
<v Speaker 2>collection in New York City. Oh it's the same risk

0:39:42.920 --> 0:39:46.279
<v Speaker 2>that freaking guy. I love that art collection. Yes, the Frick.

0:39:46.400 --> 0:39:49.120
<v Speaker 2>I took many trips to the Frick, and I enjoyed.

0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:51.719
<v Speaker 2>I enjoyed the Frick, And now I am I am

0:39:51.840 --> 0:39:55.439
<v Speaker 2>frustrated to know that what a scoundrel he might have been.

0:39:55.840 --> 0:39:59.720
<v Speaker 2>But Frick was also part of the super Anti Union

0:39:59.800 --> 0:40:02.760
<v Speaker 2>for that led to the violent homestead strike in eighteen

0:40:02.840 --> 0:40:06.600
<v Speaker 2>ninety two. He even survived an assassination attempt during it.

0:40:07.080 --> 0:40:10.360
<v Speaker 2>Not to tease you, but we will save that snapoo

0:40:10.480 --> 0:40:13.279
<v Speaker 2>for another day. Ooh, I love that. Indeed, we were

0:40:13.320 --> 0:40:15.200
<v Speaker 2>talking before about some of the ways the infrastructure was

0:40:15.239 --> 0:40:19.239
<v Speaker 2>improved after the flood. This is interesting. Johnstown built an

0:40:19.360 --> 0:40:22.800
<v Speaker 2>inclined railway in eighteen ninety, which allowed folks to easily

0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:26.200
<v Speaker 2>go back and forth from the nearby town of Westmont,

0:40:26.520 --> 0:40:29.200
<v Speaker 2>which was at a much higher elevation, safer from flooding,

0:40:29.320 --> 0:40:33.920
<v Speaker 2>et cetera, as well as safer from the leftover pollution.

0:40:34.080 --> 0:40:38.879
<v Speaker 2>Here's a photo of the incline railway. We look at that. Great,

0:40:38.920 --> 0:40:39.320
<v Speaker 2>So there go.

0:40:39.440 --> 0:40:45.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so they made some changes, some good changes. But

0:40:45.760 --> 0:40:47.960
<v Speaker 1>here's let I say, like, for somebody like Frick, do

0:40:48.000 --> 0:40:50.520
<v Speaker 1>you think that he feels any responsibility or when you're

0:40:50.560 --> 0:40:52.839
<v Speaker 1>in that level, the reason why you're that successful there,

0:40:52.920 --> 0:40:55.680
<v Speaker 1>the reason why you're that wealthy is because you don't ever.

0:40:57.120 --> 0:40:59.720
<v Speaker 2>Navel gaze. You never you never think it's my fault.

0:40:59.760 --> 0:41:01.640
<v Speaker 2>That is a great question, and it is one of

0:41:01.680 --> 0:41:07.520
<v Speaker 2>the things that I never I just never understand about

0:41:07.640 --> 0:41:12.000
<v Speaker 2>people who do like large scale, dastardly things, Like I

0:41:12.160 --> 0:41:16.120
<v Speaker 2>think that in order to sort of persevere as a

0:41:16.280 --> 0:41:20.239
<v Speaker 2>tycoon of this nature, like you have to have the

0:41:20.520 --> 0:41:25.759
<v Speaker 2>most toxic coping mechanisms. You are never analyzing these things.

0:41:25.920 --> 0:41:29.640
<v Speaker 2>You're never even considering the possibility that you might be culpable,

0:41:30.040 --> 0:41:35.200
<v Speaker 2>except in the in the possibility that you might face

0:41:35.360 --> 0:41:39.360
<v Speaker 2>legal repercussions, in which case you're like mounting your legal defense.

0:41:39.840 --> 0:41:43.799
<v Speaker 2>And it is it is amazing the extent to which

0:41:44.440 --> 0:41:50.560
<v Speaker 2>powerful and or wealthy people escape culpability, both literally and

0:41:50.880 --> 0:41:53.719
<v Speaker 2>to your question, I think even in their own conscience.

0:41:54.160 --> 0:41:54.840
<v Speaker 2>I think on some.

0:41:55.080 --> 0:42:01.080
<v Speaker 1>Level every great leader, tycoon, even at fleet, has to

0:42:01.239 --> 0:42:04.920
<v Speaker 1>have this ability to separate themselves from their actions, because

0:42:05.400 --> 0:42:06.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't think you could go to bed at night.

0:42:06.719 --> 0:42:08.400
<v Speaker 1>I always say that if every president has to be

0:42:08.640 --> 0:42:11.359
<v Speaker 1>a little bit insane or at least narcissistic, because you're saying,

0:42:11.400 --> 0:42:14.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm taking the whole world on my shoulders, and if

0:42:14.560 --> 0:42:16.560
<v Speaker 1>people die you Eric, well, all right, I'll get them tomorrow.

0:42:17.120 --> 0:42:18.920
<v Speaker 1>And you know, because you have to get back up.

0:42:18.960 --> 0:42:21.120
<v Speaker 2>They will. People will die under your watch as a

0:42:21.200 --> 0:42:22.359
<v Speaker 2>president person.

0:42:22.400 --> 0:42:24.919
<v Speaker 1>And I think that's the thing that unites all these people,

0:42:25.040 --> 0:42:27.799
<v Speaker 1>and for better and for worse, it's just a very

0:42:28.200 --> 0:42:30.080
<v Speaker 1>I would even say Claire Barton probably is like that

0:42:30.160 --> 0:42:30.759
<v Speaker 1>to a certain day.

0:42:30.840 --> 0:42:32.680
<v Speaker 2>I have to keep on moving. I can't take on

0:42:32.840 --> 0:42:36.719
<v Speaker 2>all this grief yeah. Yeah, So finally, Paul Yes, being

0:42:36.880 --> 0:42:40.399
<v Speaker 2>a guy who dissects Hollywood's most baffling films, you will

0:42:40.520 --> 0:42:43.920
<v Speaker 2>appreciate this. In nineteen twenty six, they actually made The

0:42:44.040 --> 0:42:48.520
<v Speaker 2>Johnstown Flood as a silent disaster movie, and like any

0:42:48.560 --> 0:42:51.200
<v Speaker 2>great disaster flick, the plot is shaky, but the special

0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:57.279
<v Speaker 2>effects for the time were spectacular. Can we just see

0:42:57.320 --> 0:43:00.560
<v Speaker 2>this one little clip? This is exciting.

0:43:01.040 --> 0:43:08.040
<v Speaker 1>Whoa, Oh my goodness, I'm already love it. I'm gonna

0:43:08.040 --> 0:43:12.160
<v Speaker 1>watch this entire special effectsh holy cow.

0:43:12.760 --> 0:43:17.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is a great mind blowing wow. So you

0:43:17.200 --> 0:43:20.160
<v Speaker 2>can tell it's all done in miniature, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:43:20.360 --> 0:43:24.279
<v Speaker 2>And then and then watch how it's Watch how it's

0:43:24.360 --> 0:43:28.239
<v Speaker 2>like superimposed or double exposed somehow some of the filmmaking.

0:43:28.640 --> 0:43:32.799
<v Speaker 1>Wow, this is fascinating. I just been blown away by

0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:33.600
<v Speaker 1>the amount of.

0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:37.439
<v Speaker 2>Wow did how do they do that? That looks so real?

0:43:38.000 --> 0:43:40.839
<v Speaker 1>That looks unbelievable. I don't even understand it because people

0:43:40.840 --> 0:43:43.719
<v Speaker 1>are flying away too, and they're the thing people. The

0:43:43.800 --> 0:43:46.239
<v Speaker 1>special effects that were going on in these early days

0:43:46.360 --> 0:43:49.640
<v Speaker 1>are truly outstanding. You know, these sci fi movies, like

0:43:49.760 --> 0:43:51.759
<v Speaker 1>when you think about what they had and what they

0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:53.320
<v Speaker 1>were that looked amazing.

0:43:53.200 --> 0:43:56.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Paul, how did this get made? I mean, and

0:43:56.440 --> 0:43:58.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't mean that ironically in the way that you do.

0:43:59.280 --> 0:44:01.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean, how did they actually do?

0:44:02.320 --> 0:44:04.640
<v Speaker 1>And I Am going to get actually amazing podcast and

0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:06.720
<v Speaker 1>do some research because I'm interested.

0:44:07.360 --> 0:44:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Paul Sheer, this has been a goddamn delight. What a blast,

0:44:11.760 --> 0:44:15.520
<v Speaker 2>What a fun blast. I just I love deconstructing with

0:44:15.719 --> 0:44:17.480
<v Speaker 2>you about anything.

0:44:17.880 --> 0:44:21.600
<v Speaker 1>What a gift this this is because every one of

0:44:21.640 --> 0:44:23.600
<v Speaker 1>these it makes me feel smarter. I did not know

0:44:23.680 --> 0:44:27.400
<v Speaker 1>about the Johnstone flood, and yes it was awful, but

0:44:27.480 --> 0:44:29.320
<v Speaker 1>I feel good that these guys got some good fishing

0:44:29.360 --> 0:44:30.959
<v Speaker 1>in and that you know, so that was a moral

0:44:30.960 --> 0:44:31.400
<v Speaker 1>of it, right that.

0:44:31.440 --> 0:44:35.440
<v Speaker 2>They go there was some good fishing the of course. No,

0:44:35.680 --> 0:44:38.120
<v Speaker 2>I really do love it, appreciate how your brain works,

0:44:38.160 --> 0:44:40.080
<v Speaker 2>and I'm really grateful that you came on and share

0:44:40.360 --> 0:44:42.640
<v Speaker 2>happy to be here. Thank you Ed for having me.

0:44:43.000 --> 0:44:47.279
<v Speaker 2>What a blast, of course. Cheers by Snapoo is a

0:44:47.320 --> 0:44:51.800
<v Speaker 2>production of iHeart Podcasts and Snapoo Media, a partnership between

0:44:51.840 --> 0:44:55.600
<v Speaker 2>Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company. Our post

0:44:55.640 --> 0:44:59.440
<v Speaker 2>production studio is Gilded Audio. Our executive producers are me

0:44:59.760 --> 0:45:04.120
<v Speaker 2>Ed Elms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim, Whitney Donaldson,

0:45:04.320 --> 0:45:08.320
<v Speaker 2>and Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino

0:45:08.480 --> 0:45:12.520
<v Speaker 2>and Tory Smith. Our video editor is Jared Smith. Technical

0:45:12.600 --> 0:45:16.279
<v Speaker 2>direction and engineering from Nick Dooley. Our creative executive is

0:45:16.320 --> 0:45:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Brett Harris. Logo and branding by The Collected Works. Legal

0:45:20.320 --> 0:45:24.920
<v Speaker 2>review from Dan Welsh, Meghan Halson and Caroline Johnson. Special

0:45:25.000 --> 0:45:28.200
<v Speaker 2>thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn, Lane Klein, and everyone

0:45:28.360 --> 0:45:33.320
<v Speaker 2>at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Kerry Leeberman, Nikki Etoor,

0:45:33.760 --> 0:45:38.160
<v Speaker 2>Nathan Otowski and Alex Corral. While I have you, don't

0:45:38.200 --> 0:45:41.239
<v Speaker 2>forget to pick up a copy of my book, Snafoo,

0:45:41.400 --> 0:45:45.280
<v Speaker 2>The Definitive Guide to History's Greatest screw Ups. It's available

0:45:45.360 --> 0:45:49.640
<v Speaker 2>now from any book retailer. Just go to Snaffoo dashbook

0:45:49.880 --> 0:45:53.600
<v Speaker 2>dot com. Thanks for listening and see you next week.

0:46:00.000 --> 0:46:00.040
<v Speaker 2>S