WEBVTT - Creating a More Human Future with Technology

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Bloomberg BusinessWeek with Carol Messer and Tim

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<v Speaker 1>Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>A popular story that was highlighted on the Bloomberg terminal yesterday.

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<v Speaker 2>It was actually from Dow Jones Wall Street Journal, and

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<v Speaker 2>it talked about the talent war for those with experience

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<v Speaker 2>in artificial intelligence. So some companies here in the US,

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<v Speaker 2>and industries as Diversus entertainment manufacturing are check this out,

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<v Speaker 2>willing to pay salaries that are close to a million

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<v Speaker 2>dollars a year for top AI talent, according to the

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<v Speaker 2>journal reporting think machine learning specialist, data scientists and the like.

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<v Speaker 1>So kids study that AI. Kids AI degree in school,

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<v Speaker 1>so you can be replaced by AI.

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<v Speaker 3>Well.

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<v Speaker 1>Our next guest knows a thing or two about AI.

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<v Speaker 1>Brian Evergreen is the founder of the Profitable Good Company.

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<v Speaker 1>He advises executives from some of the biggest companies on

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<v Speaker 1>AI strategy. He's also worked for a century, Amazon Web

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<v Speaker 1>Services and Microsoftware who is the global head of Autonomous

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<v Speaker 1>AI co Innovation brand. Is also a guest lecturer at

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<v Speaker 1>Purdue University in the Kellogg School of Management, among other roles.

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<v Speaker 1>He's got a new book out. It's called autonomous transformation,

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<v Speaker 1>creating a more human future in the era of artificial intelligence.

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<v Speaker 1>He joins us on zoom from Washington State. Brian, how

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<v Speaker 1>are you.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm doing well. How are you?

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<v Speaker 1>We're doing pretty well. We're still we haven't been replaced

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<v Speaker 1>by AI at this point, yes yet, not yet. But

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<v Speaker 1>when you talk about a human future, what do you mean?

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<v Speaker 4>What I mean is that initially I set out with

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<v Speaker 4>the goal when I went through the process of researching

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<v Speaker 4>and writing the book, I set out with a goal

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<v Speaker 4>of discovering why is it that only thirteen percent of

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<v Speaker 4>AI initiatives make it through into production. And what I found,

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<v Speaker 4>what I'd hoped from my own personal background, was that

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<v Speaker 4>I'd be able to find a way that we could

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<v Speaker 4>harness the economic and societal potential of AI and these

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<v Speaker 4>other advanced technologies to do good in the world and

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<v Speaker 4>to create a more human future. And by that I

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<v Speaker 4>mean a future where more and more people can thrive

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<v Speaker 4>and have dignity in their work and have access to

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<v Speaker 4>opportunities to bring in create value in the world. And

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<v Speaker 4>what I found was that it's not that harnessing the

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<v Speaker 4>economic potential of AI and creating a better future are

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<v Speaker 4>two distinct things. Is actually the way that you get

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<v Speaker 4>the potential of the economic and societal potential of these

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<v Speaker 4>technologies starts with how you work with and treat the

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<v Speaker 4>people within your organizations and your ecosystems.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, sounds rather utopian, but it just also you

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<v Speaker 2>know that sometimes to get to a better place, it's

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit messy in the middle. Is there going

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<v Speaker 2>to be a massive adjustment as we get to a

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<v Speaker 2>world where artificial intelligence the next generation if you will,

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<v Speaker 2>the generative AI, really has an impact, but it's going

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<v Speaker 2>to be a little rough to get there and where

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<v Speaker 2>we all benefit potentially.

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<v Speaker 4>I think there will be a period of adjustment. That

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<v Speaker 4>I personally written about it and I speak about it

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<v Speaker 4>is that there's really three types of outlooks on jobs today.

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<v Speaker 4>There's two that are prevalent in the media today. Which

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<v Speaker 4>is one is job protectionism, which is that the current

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<v Speaker 4>class of jobs as they exists must be protected in

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<v Speaker 4>that set of tasks that make up those jobs at

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<v Speaker 4>all costs, which presents a longer term economic risk to

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<v Speaker 4>the organization if the rest of the market is advancing forward.

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<v Speaker 4>The second, on the other end of the spectrum, is

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<v Speaker 4>job fatalism, which is that AI is coming for all

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<v Speaker 4>our jobs, and you know, we might as well prepare

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<v Speaker 4>the way for our robot overlords. And the issue with that,

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<v Speaker 4>with that line of thinking is that it means that

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<v Speaker 4>we as a society and we as humanity have stopped

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<v Speaker 4>creating value. All the value that we've created can now

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<v Speaker 4>just be automated and there's no further work to be

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<v Speaker 4>done for humanity, and I also disagree with that pretty foundationally.

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<v Speaker 4>The one in the middle that I recommend is job pragmatism,

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<v Speaker 4>which is that, yes, our jobs are going to evolve.

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<v Speaker 4>The way that we work, the way that we create

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<v Speaker 4>value must evolve. We have these opportunities in these tools,

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<v Speaker 4>and that leaders have the opportunity from the time that

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<v Speaker 4>they sign a purchase order or set their technology strategy

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<v Speaker 4>for what they're going to do and what tasks will

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<v Speaker 4>be able to be automated. They usually have about six

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<v Speaker 4>months to if not a couple of years, before the

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<v Speaker 4>technologies at the point that it actually can be put

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<v Speaker 4>into production. So if at that same time they set

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<v Speaker 4>a workforce strategy and the separate product strategy with an

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<v Speaker 4>expansion mindset instead of a cutting cost mindset, that gives

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<v Speaker 4>them an opportunity to continue honoring the people and the

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<v Speaker 4>culture of their organization and move forward with the expertise

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<v Speaker 4>of those that they've hired over the years.

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<v Speaker 1>Does the AI run up that we've seen this year,

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<v Speaker 1>did that come as a surprise to you. I'm talking

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<v Speaker 1>about the you know what we've seen in the public

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<v Speaker 1>markets with companies such as Nvidia and the like.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes and no.

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<v Speaker 4>I think that I had visibility to some of the

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<v Speaker 4>investments that were taking place and the potential if anything,

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<v Speaker 4>I was I would have expected there to be more

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<v Speaker 4>of a runoff and more hype earlier, because there's quite

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<v Speaker 4>a few other AI technologies that have already reached a

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<v Speaker 4>point of inflection that are as capable or more capable

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<v Speaker 4>than the large language models like chat GPT. But for

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<v Speaker 4>whatever reason, I I think because of the accessibility for

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<v Speaker 4>people to be able to use chatch EPT or Dolly

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<v Speaker 4>on their phone, then I think that's a big reason

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<v Speaker 4>why the hype ran off the way that it did.

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<v Speaker 4>But there's several other I refer to it as one

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<v Speaker 4>piece on the chessboard. There's several other AI and even

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<v Speaker 4>other advanced technology pieces that haven't quite made their way

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<v Speaker 4>into the limelight. Even though they're as powerful or more

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<v Speaker 4>powerful for executives to harness today.

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<v Speaker 2>Brian, I do think about, you know, Tim and I

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<v Speaker 2>talk a lot about the aging populations, demographics, people having

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<v Speaker 2>less babies. Although it does feel like Earth is getting

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<v Speaker 2>maxed out here too in terms of resources. But it

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<v Speaker 2>does feel like we're going to see you know, continuation

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of slowdowns. And I do wonder about the

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<v Speaker 2>labor force of tomorrow, whether or not there's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be enough people. Health Care is already in a crisis

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<v Speaker 2>to some extent. You just see it. I see it

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<v Speaker 2>in places where you can just see more and more

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<v Speaker 2>things are being automated. So I do wonder how you

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<v Speaker 2>think about this? Is it akin to the world discovering

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<v Speaker 2>and developing the internet and all the things we do

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<v Speaker 2>online that's made certain things automated? Like how do you

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<v Speaker 2>think about this transformation? Is there a slot we can

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<v Speaker 2>place it in? Is it from horse to engine, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>buggy to car? Like how do you see it?

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<v Speaker 4>The way that I look at it is that we've

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<v Speaker 4>been talking about the next revolution of the industrial revolution

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<v Speaker 4>over and over again. Right now, it's industry for dot Oh,

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<v Speaker 4>we've discussed industry five to at zero. I think that

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<v Speaker 4>we're actually in a stage now where we can move

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<v Speaker 4>past and we can thank the industrial Revolution for laying

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<v Speaker 4>the foundation of our society, but move forward into a

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<v Speaker 4>new Renaissance or Enlightenment level era of society. And as

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<v Speaker 4>someone I interviewed recently on my podcast put it, she

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<v Speaker 4>said that we're cave painting with AI. And I think

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<v Speaker 4>that's a really good analogy and that there's a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of potential that for the way that we as humans

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<v Speaker 4>can maybe if anything, have a little bit of an

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<v Speaker 4>analog transformation and some of the things that where we

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<v Speaker 4>know there's been societal harm, like with screen addiction and

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<v Speaker 4>these things, maybe we can look at ways that technology

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<v Speaker 4>can augment for the areas of value creation where we

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<v Speaker 4>do rely on technology. Now, are there ways that with

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<v Speaker 4>AI can add a little bit more capability to so

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<v Speaker 4>that we don't need to use a screen to interface

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<v Speaker 4>with that and therefore don't get sucked back into scrolling

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<v Speaker 4>on our favorite social media platform.

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<v Speaker 1>Favorite ones that we love to hate. Brian paint that

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<v Speaker 1>picture for us of what life looks like in five

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<v Speaker 1>ten years.

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<v Speaker 4>So if my hope for what life can look like

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<v Speaker 4>in five to ten years is that as automation and

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<v Speaker 4>autonomous systems continue to proliferate and be put into production,

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<v Speaker 4>that humans can move up the work hierarchy toward more

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<v Speaker 4>creative work. And an example of this is now Chemical

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<v Speaker 4>did an amazing thing in their factories where humans were

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<v Speaker 4>they would have to drain their vats of chemicals. Humans

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<v Speaker 4>would suit up in their hazmats suits, go in, inspect

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<v Speaker 4>the inside and check for quality and check for safety

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<v Speaker 4>and all of that. Then they'd exit. So did slow

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<v Speaker 4>down production, and there is a human safety issue whenever

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<v Speaker 4>they every time that they had to perform that. What

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<v Speaker 4>they did instead is they were able to use drones

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<v Speaker 4>with machine learning or AID technology to be able to

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<v Speaker 4>just drop the drone into the vat while it's still

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<v Speaker 4>running and run that same security check without a human

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<v Speaker 4>having to ever go in and be exposed to that risk.

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<v Speaker 4>And so for me personally, I think in the next

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<v Speaker 4>five years, especially with the amount of time it takes

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<v Speaker 4>to adequately develop these kinds of systems, I'm guessing that

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<v Speaker 4>we're going to see more and more work that either

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<v Speaker 4>is currently not being done or is being done very inefficiently,

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<v Speaker 4>be automated or become autonomous.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, do you think you just got about forty seconds

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<v Speaker 2>left here? Like the folks in Hollywood, right that have

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<v Speaker 2>been on strike, I mean, I know they're working, and

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<v Speaker 2>it looks like they're making some progress potentially, But I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>do you think they were right to be worried? Creative types?

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<v Speaker 4>I think that their right to be concerned about the

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<v Speaker 4>misuse by executives that are trying to use AI but

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<v Speaker 4>to replace the work that they do. Absolutely, I think

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<v Speaker 4>it's a good opportunity to challenge the structure of the

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<v Speaker 4>way that they're being treated by these organizations, especially if

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<v Speaker 4>they're being treated like they're dispensable. But what I would

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<v Speaker 4>say is that any organization that leverages AI as to

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<v Speaker 4>the full extent and replaces human writing and something like

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<v Speaker 4>entertainment is only going to put out pulp fiction. And

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<v Speaker 4>I don't mean the movie. I mean like the lowest

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<v Speaker 4>quality of entertainment, and that humans will always be needed

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<v Speaker 4>to create things like you know, the movies that are

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<v Speaker 4>flashing across our headlines this summer.

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<v Speaker 1>I agree. I mean, I don't know, you can't get

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<v Speaker 1>maybe we'll get a body by AI exactly, I haven't

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<v Speaker 1>seen it.

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<v Speaker 3>You can redo something that's been done with AI with

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<v Speaker 3>some mixes and matches and some surprise elements, but it's

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<v Speaker 3>not going to have the same It'll be the same

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<v Speaker 3>as any other story arc that's already existed, probably the

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<v Speaker 3>average of the existing stories.

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<v Speaker 2>Brian Evergreen, thank you so much, really appreciate your time.

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<v Speaker 2>Your book is autonomous transformation, creating a more human future

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<v Speaker 2>in the era of AI.