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Speaker 1: Lokata Radio is a radiophonic novela, which.

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Speaker 2: Is just a very extra way of saying a podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm fosa fem.

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Speaker 2: And I am ma la munos.

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Speaker 3: We're podcasting through another Trump election year. We've been podcasting

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Speaker 3: through election years, a global pandemic, civic unrest, political controversies,

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Speaker 3: the Me Too movement, the rise of TikTok, and we

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Speaker 3: are still here.

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Speaker 2: We're not done telling stories.

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Speaker 1: We're still making podcasts. We're older, we're wiser, We're even

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Speaker 1: podcasting through a new decade of our lives.

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Speaker 3: Since twenty sixteen, we've been making locat Our Radio independently

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Speaker 3: until we joined iHeartMedia's Michael Dura Network in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: From our Lips to your Ears, fall in love with

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Speaker 1: Loka to a radio like you never have before.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Season nine, Love at First Listen, O.

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Speaker 1: La la Lokamotives. Welcome to Season nine of lok at

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Speaker 1: Dora Radio. I'm Viosa and I'm mala. Lok at Dora

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Speaker 1: Radio is a podcast dedicated to archiving our present and

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Speaker 1: shifting the culture forward. You're tuning in to Capitulo Do

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Speaker 1: two thirteen.

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Speaker 3: Last time on Look at Our radio. We talked about

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Speaker 3: some adventures we were shooting the shit, and I shared

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Speaker 3: a story about getting scammed by a fake taxi driver

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Speaker 3: in Mexico City, and I decided, okay, when we go

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Speaker 3: to Chipultepec, like I'm taking the puppet with me, I

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Speaker 3: named her Astrid. I like had her on my hand

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Speaker 3: the whole time because I was filming content with her.

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Speaker 3: And also like she was a crowd pleaser, like every

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Speaker 3: time there was a group of children, they were like esunajo.

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Speaker 3: Not there there was like a group of nuns that

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Speaker 3: really liked her. Like we were having fun with Astrid.

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Speaker 3: So we decide that on our way to the zoo,

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Speaker 3: go ahead, tune in, leave a review and share with

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Speaker 3: the friends. So we're back in studio. We're about to

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Speaker 3: interview an incredible guest that we've known for a very

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Speaker 3: very very long time, and we've had this person on

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Speaker 3: the podcast before. We used to run around with this

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Speaker 3: person all over the Instagram streets back in the day.

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Speaker 3: Shout out to those of you who followed Latina Rebels,

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Speaker 3: because we have on the show today Prisca Dorgas Mohika Rodriguez,

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Speaker 3: and she really needs no introduction, Like I said. She

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Speaker 3: founded the digital platform Latina Rebels in twenty thirteen. She

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Speaker 3: was born in Managua, Nicaragua, but she currently calls Nashville, Tennessee,

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Speaker 3: her home. Prisca is a feminist, theologian, storyteller and advocate.

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Speaker 1: We interviewed Briska back in twenty twenty one to discuss

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Speaker 1: her book four Brown Girls with Sharp Edges and Tender Hearts.

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Speaker 1: You can tune into that episode Gopitolo one oh five

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Speaker 1: where we talk about Christianity, Satanism, and her debut book,

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Speaker 1: And today we're discussing her newly released book, her second book,

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Speaker 1: called theus Emprimus. In this book, she explores thea's empritimas

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Speaker 1: as archetypes. Fearlessly grappling with the effects of intergenerational trauma,

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Speaker 1: centuries of colonization, and sexism. She attempts to heal the

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Speaker 1: pain that is so often embodied in female family lines. So,

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Speaker 1: without further ado, we're so excited to welcome Brisca Rodriguez.

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Speaker 2: Well, so excited to.

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Speaker 1: Have you on today for the second time to talk

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Speaker 1: about your new book and all things I was reflecting

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Speaker 1: on our last time you came on and we literally

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Speaker 1: talked about Satanism. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's still one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite episodes ever.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, our favorite part of the interview, I think, yeah,

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Speaker 3: because we afterwards we were so like, wow, Satanism sounds

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Speaker 3: really good.

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Speaker 1: Are we Satanists?

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Speaker 3: Are we satan Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Well yeah, yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 1: So like before we get into the book, though, like,

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Speaker 1: how are you doing? Welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 4: I know it's been I mean, I'm just busy. I'm

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Speaker 4: trying to write a novel right now, and I'm teaching

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Speaker 4: myself how to write a novel, so it just feels

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Speaker 4: like a different So the first two books, when I

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Speaker 4: write them, I get barely any edits back. I've turned

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Speaker 4: in my novel and I get destroyed. So it's like

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Speaker 4: a humbling experience too, because I know most authors go

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Speaker 4: through the experience of sending their editor stuff and it

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Speaker 4: just gets destroyed and you just have to get used

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Speaker 4: to that. I'm starting to have to get used to it.

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Speaker 4: So it's very stressful. You realize how much you like

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Speaker 4: equated your self worth to the thing that you do

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Speaker 4: when somebody destroys it.

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Speaker 1: So as you're gearing up to talk about your second book,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna go on your book tour. You're doing all

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Speaker 1: your speaking engagements, which you've done for so many years,

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Speaker 1: for so long. Now you're also working on a novel.

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Speaker 1: Can you give us a little teaser about the novel?

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Speaker 3: Is there?

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Speaker 1: Is there anything you can share? The premise?

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Speaker 4: A line? The pitch is why. It's why. So it's

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Speaker 4: young adult and it's Judy Blooms.

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Speaker 3: Are you there?

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Speaker 4: God, it's me Margaret. But it's a Latina thirteen years

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Speaker 4: old immigrant in Miami, And so she's going through the

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Speaker 4: same things I think that like we would think of

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Speaker 4: at that age range, like hormones and just figuring out

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Speaker 4: like why am I crying all the time? And what

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Speaker 4: are these bumps on my chest? Like all this stuff.

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Speaker 4: But she's also like translating documents for her parents, and

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Speaker 4: like in a really conservative church where she's coming to

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Speaker 4: the age where they're expecting her to speak in tongues

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Speaker 4: because she's old enough. So like she's like battling like

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Speaker 4: being a kid in the US, but also still having

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Speaker 4: a very immigrant religious experience and wanting to be her

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Speaker 4: own person, and learning to keep secrets from her parents

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Speaker 4: and then learning to keep secrets from her friends because

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Speaker 4: like you can't can't say, you can't explain everything about

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Speaker 4: how different you are to your friends in school. So

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Speaker 4: it's just like tumultuous teenager trying to live.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, don't go anywhere, lokomotives. We'll be right.

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Speaker 3: Back, and we're back with more of our episode. It

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Speaker 3: sounds is this based on your life? Yeah? Okay, amazing.

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Speaker 3: It sounds like this sounds a little familiar. I love it. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I haven't even changed the names yet. It's all people,

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Speaker 4: real people's names and stuff. I'll go through that at

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Speaker 4: some point in the legal review. But yeah, oh interesting.

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Speaker 3: I love that.

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Speaker 1: I love that because you know, so much of your

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Speaker 1: work that you've done online, in print, digital has been

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Speaker 1: so deeply personal to you, just like your second book,

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Speaker 1: The Semprimas. So I think that that's a good jumping off.

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Speaker 1: You know, let's dive into the book. I've read through it.

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Speaker 1: It's masterpiece, beautiful. I think that this is something the

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Speaker 1: community is going to love again.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: I know your first book was well received, we loved it.

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Speaker 1: It continues to be sold and is in like another print, right,

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Speaker 1: and so I see that same thing for Tias and Primas, right,

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Speaker 1: and so I wanted to pull a quote from the introduction,

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Speaker 1: because I think the introduction is just really situates us

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Speaker 1: and like, what this book is who you are, and

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Speaker 1: so I want to read this quote from you. And

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Speaker 1: while wonderful and great things happen when families gather, other

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Speaker 1: insidious and less beautiful things often occur too. And so

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Speaker 1: you're telling us like you're tasked with making a sense

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Speaker 1: of these archetypes and recognizing that they were created by

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Speaker 1: colonial and patriarchal structures, sexism, racism, all these things. And

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Speaker 1: so it's a really deep book, right, taking theory, and

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Speaker 1: you're making it super relatable, just like you did with

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Speaker 1: your last book.

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Speaker 3: So how did you.

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Speaker 1: Decide that this book, The Smbrimas, would be the follow

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Speaker 1: up to Brown Girls with Sharp Edges and Tender Hearts.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know I was going to be the follow

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Speaker 4: up until I feel like it's gonna feel really woo woo.

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Speaker 4: But like books tell you when they're ready to be written,

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Speaker 4: and I had written four proposals. I was going to

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Speaker 4: co write a feminist Bible study. I also pitched a

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Speaker 4: cookbook with a lot of the same messaging, but for

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Speaker 4: people who aren't going to pick up a chapter book,

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Speaker 4: but might pick up a cookbook. I pitched a graphic novel,

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Speaker 4: and then I pitched this one, and they were like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: they all sound wonderful. Pick which one you want to

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Speaker 4: move forward with so we can give you the edits

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Speaker 4: my agents and the pretty much just felt the most

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Speaker 4: build I guess the most. I'm the most that I

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Speaker 4: could actually write a whole book with, because in nonfiction,

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Speaker 4: you sell ideas of books, you don't sell finished books,

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Speaker 4: and so it was just ideas and it was like,

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Speaker 4: I think I can actually fill these pages. I'm in.

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Speaker 4: I was in that state of like hanging out with

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Speaker 4: a lot of friends. After the first book had published,

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Speaker 4: I went on a vacation with a bunch of girlfriends,

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Speaker 4: and it was just in the ether of our conversations,

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Speaker 4: like in a vacation with a friend. She was like,

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Speaker 4: she's the one who said, oh, yeah, those dignified senora

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Speaker 4: as who hold their purses really close and judge you.

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Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, I.

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Speaker 4: Know that woman, I know her, yeah, and that's my mom.

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Speaker 4: Like that, Like it was just coming and connecting and

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Speaker 4: the dots were becoming clear and I was like, I

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Speaker 4: can do this one. And so that was the first

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Speaker 4: one that felt like I could write and I could

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Speaker 4: sell the quickest. So that's how I ran with it.

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Speaker 4: But it also is like it's hard to focus on

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Speaker 4: one thing. So like I I started working in anthology

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Speaker 4: in the middle of this book, and I started thinking

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Speaker 4: about the novel in the middle of this book. You

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Speaker 4: can't like decide what your body wants to do and

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Speaker 4: what stories are dying to get out. But yeah, I

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Speaker 4: felt the most ready. I call it like cooked.

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Speaker 3: I love that beautiful. For a basic beginning to this interview,

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Speaker 3: can you give us an introduction to yourself, your age,

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Speaker 3: your occupation as you define it, anything else you want

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Speaker 3: to share as far as who you are.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm thirty nine years old, I'm first generation college

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Speaker 4: grad immigrant, and I am a full time author, which

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Speaker 4: is crazy.

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Speaker 1: An author you are, Yes, I love that, and you

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Speaker 1: know another you know, I'm just going to see you

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Speaker 1: praises today. But another thing that I love about the

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Speaker 1: intro is like you have this really great quote the

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Speaker 1: sentence right that's I am but a comma and a

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Speaker 1: long list of Latina is writing about our experiences through

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Speaker 1: different lenses. And that was so powerful to me because

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Speaker 1: I feel like we have this way as a community

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Speaker 1: of like making one person like the voice of the community,

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Speaker 1: and that's so much pressure, and I feel like you

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Speaker 1: kind of address it in this way where you're like,

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Speaker 1: this is just one experience from my POV, from my worldview,

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Speaker 1: so can you expand on bringing that to this book.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think especially as I've been doing y'all know,

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Speaker 4: like I've been doing speaking engagements for years, and I

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Speaker 4: constantly get emails around like but this is a mixed

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Speaker 4: gender group, can you do something for everyone? And I'm like, what, No,

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Speaker 4: no one can, what are you talking about? And so

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Speaker 4: I think it was It's it's like I feel like

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Speaker 4: I continue to try to remind people like there is

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Speaker 4: no singular Latina experience. There is no Latina experience. There's

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Speaker 4: even this book is very If things don't write, it's

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Speaker 4: because it wasn't your experience, and that's okay. Like I

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Speaker 4: think we get in the way of our own selves too,

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Speaker 4: like this isn't my experience, so this this author must

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Speaker 4: be wrong. Instead of no, this author is informed by

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Speaker 4: so many other things. I think, like white people have

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Speaker 4: told us their experiences are all our experiences, and we

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Speaker 4: just like continue that mindset, be like pick up a

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Speaker 4: thing that doesn't make any sense to us, and we're like,

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Speaker 4: we'll make a fit. It's like the Cinderella stepsisters. But no,

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Speaker 4: I don't think it. I don't think it works that way.

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Speaker 4: And the more I've been around long enough to where

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Speaker 4: like after Latini that came into this scene that was

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Speaker 4: like doing speaking engagement, It's like that wasn't a thing

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Speaker 4: that was conversational at the beginning, and so like, not

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Speaker 4: that there weren't black Latinis, but it was like now

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Speaker 4: we had a name for it, and now they need

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Speaker 4: to be acknowledged and have their own space for that.

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Speaker 3: It was.

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Speaker 4: It's all been something that I've had to live on

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Speaker 4: air figure out, like, don't pigeonhole me into this one

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Speaker 4: singular I can speak for all of us because I can't,

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Speaker 4: and I refuse to be forced into it.

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Speaker 3: Love it. And on that note, who do you write for?

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Speaker 3: And as you've been coming up and doing your own

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Speaker 3: reading and you're, you know, undergoing your own educational processes,

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Speaker 3: who was writing for you?

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Speaker 4: I think I write for Latinas. I think it's more

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Speaker 4: a millennial Latina for sure, Latinas who went to Pwi's

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Speaker 4: Latinas who were raised with really strict conservative Christian parents,

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Speaker 4: Like who understand when I say speaking in tongues like

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Speaker 4: that's the Latina I get. I get, I can get

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Speaker 4: really niche with it, like speaking in tongues like people

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Speaker 4: fainting backwards because the Holy Spirit annointed them. Like I

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Speaker 4: speak to a particular kind of Latina that understood hyper

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Speaker 4: religion through a colonial lens, like our colonialism was Christianity

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Speaker 4: as we understood it. And I think growing up I

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Speaker 4: was a big reader, but I like was introduced to

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Speaker 4: San Rasists and that's kind of it. Even in Miami,

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Speaker 4: like there wasn't this huge push to have representation. I

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Speaker 4: think Miami Latins are interesting. I mean we could see

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Speaker 4: it in the politics of Miami, and I've learned that

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Speaker 4: in distance from Miami. I was like, oh, y'all loved whiteness,

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Speaker 4: got it? That was That was good to know. But

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Speaker 4: I didn't read stuff that represented me. So I read

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Speaker 4: in grad school Glorian Saldua and Cheri Moraga and it

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Speaker 4: was there that I saw. And even Sandra Sists. I

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Speaker 4: always talk about this one essay where she talks about

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Speaker 4: her her pussy and it was brown her she I

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Speaker 4: think she calls it pano chap, but I think she

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Speaker 4: also says pussy. But is that when I was like,

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Speaker 4: we're saying, we're saying that shit. Like I remember looking around, like, wait,

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Speaker 4: we're just talking about this openly. So it took to me,

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Speaker 4: being in my late twenties based mid to late twenties,

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Speaker 4: for me to read people to be like, oh, we

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Speaker 4: can tell our stories in a different way and it

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Speaker 4: can be really specific and people will get it.

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Speaker 1: I love that you brought up that that writing by

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Speaker 1: Santa Cisnetto's about her pano chap, because you know, for everyone,

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Speaker 1: their introduction to Santa cis Neto's is, of course the

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Speaker 1: house on Mango Street, which I get it iconic, right,

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Speaker 1: it's celebrating like an anniversary this year. But her writing

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Speaker 1: is super political too, But that's not necessarily the introduction

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Speaker 1: that we have of her.

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Speaker 4: It is like in her essays, I think are the

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Speaker 4: the more groundbreaking stuff that really was like, oh I

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Speaker 4: think I'm your fan, yeah for sure.

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Speaker 3: And political and all these fat things, but sexual as well.

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Speaker 3: So I'm really curious too about the conversations around sex,

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Speaker 3: sexuality and the body that Sandra Cisnettos was having given

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Speaker 3: your upbringing and your background, like how did those two

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Speaker 3: things come together when you're reading an author like that.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I had my sexual awakening in my graduate program.

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Speaker 4: So I got divorced and was like, let's let's fuck around,

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Speaker 4: let's figure this stuff out. Because it did. It did

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Speaker 4: awaken a lot in me. It made me realize how

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Speaker 4: much shame I had to sexuality, my own sexuality, how

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Speaker 4: much I had like equated love to sex, how much

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Speaker 4: I had equated even my worth to my body's ability

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Speaker 4: to do what my mom would be, like the thing

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Speaker 4: where women were meant to do. And so I this

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Speaker 4: point when I read this that stuff, I had had

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Speaker 4: multiple miscarriages and it was like, okay, it's not working.

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Speaker 4: So I hate this body. And I went through three

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Speaker 4: years of celibacy while married, and then I was reading

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Speaker 4: this stuff and there was I remember, I just like

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Speaker 4: became hungry for hot dogs and I was also I

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Speaker 4: became vegetarian those three years too. And I woke up

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Speaker 4: it was twenty thirteen January and I was like, I

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Speaker 4: just want a hot dog. And I was like insatiable

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Speaker 4: about a hot dog. But it was just like this

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Speaker 4: beginning of like I just I want me and I

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Speaker 4: also want to get fucked, and it really, I mean

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Speaker 4: it resulted in me getting divorced and really just exploring

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Speaker 4: all over Nashville what that felt like for me.

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Speaker 3: I think that's our quote. I want meat and I

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Speaker 3: really want to get fucked. That's perfect.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for that.

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Speaker 1: We hope you're enjoying this interview.

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Speaker 3: Stay tuned, we're back, and we hope you enjoy the

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Speaker 3: rest of the interview.

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Speaker 1: I love that. You know what, there is a correlation

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Speaker 1: for me with becoming exiting vegetarianism and also starting to

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Speaker 1: have sex with men.

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Speaker 3: Really, Oh my god, what is that about.

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Speaker 1: I've never pieced those two together. Wow.

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Speaker 3: In a second, we need to conduct a scientific study.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, I need everything.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 4: What was the me?

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Speaker 1: Oh dah, I love it. Wow, that's a great that's

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Speaker 1: a great story. And like you know, we see that

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Speaker 1: in in we see some of pieces of that in

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Speaker 1: the new book. And so I wanted I want us

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Speaker 1: to dive into some of the archetypes in this book,

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Speaker 1: which you mentioned are an amalgamation of multiple people. So

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Speaker 1: I thought we could like maybe pick a couple and

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Speaker 1: like talk about them. I have a couple prepared, but

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Speaker 1: if you want to, like pick a couple to talk about, like.

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Speaker 4: What do you think whatever?

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Speaker 1: I mean?

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Speaker 4: I always want to talk about the theao c's ghosts,

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Speaker 4: but I feel like nobody's bringing it up.

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Speaker 1: And in her head, let's do ithost?

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Speaker 3: Can we can? I ask to like why theas and primas?

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Speaker 3: Like why write about THEA and primas? And then let's

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Speaker 3: talk about the THEA.

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Speaker 4: I think the first book was like it activated a

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Speaker 4: lot of like autoimmune response stuff for me. I think

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Speaker 4: my body and I'm still figuring out in therapy, but

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Speaker 4: I think my body has been like pissed at me

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Speaker 4: for saying all the things that I said and writing

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Speaker 4: a lot of things that I had never really talked

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Speaker 4: to anybody about. And so I knew that if I

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Speaker 4: was going to do this long term, I needed to

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Speaker 4: write differently. And so Theas and Primas gave me like

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Speaker 4: a little distance because it's based on visually. I don't

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Speaker 4: know if you've ever read this book. It's called like

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Speaker 4: Love Loss And what I wore is this like picture

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Speaker 4: book of this woman in her life and it's just

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Speaker 4: these stick figures and she just like draws her little

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Speaker 4: black dress she wore on such and such she went on,

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Speaker 4: and it felt like fun to read it. And I

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Speaker 4: read it like as a senior in high school where

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Speaker 4: I was reading really intense books, but I picked up

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Speaker 4: this weird picture book and I was like, Okay, I

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Speaker 4: want images with this, and I want this to feel lighter.

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Speaker 4: I want this to feel like you know, when you're

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Speaker 4: like going on TikTok and there's like a comedian who's

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Speaker 4: like your THEA who's always partying, or your ta who's

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Speaker 4: cleaning the house before her mom gets there or whatever.

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Speaker 4: I wanted a little that infused into it, that felt

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Speaker 4: less hard on my own body as I wrote through

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Speaker 4: this stuff. The same message, but it's just like a

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Speaker 4: different approach.

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Speaker 1: I love that. And I was going to ask you

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Speaker 1: about the illustrations at the end, but since you brought

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Speaker 1: it up. First of all, is that Connie in Latia Queen.

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Speaker 4: I knew it.

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Speaker 3: I knew it.

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Speaker 1: When I saw that, I was like, that's my girl, Connie.

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Speaker 4: He wiled her.

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Speaker 3: It was likely it looks just like her image.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, not everyone's going to catch that.

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Speaker 1: I did. I did, definitely, So let's talk about it.

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Speaker 1: So the illustrations by Josie del Castillo. You mentioned already

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Speaker 1: like why you wanted to maybe give some like levity

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Speaker 1: to the book in that way, So how did you

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Speaker 1: pick you know, I see throughout the book that some

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Speaker 1: of the illustrations are you, some obviously not like Connie.

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Speaker 1: So how did you decide, like did you use reference

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Speaker 1: photos of friends? Like how did you decide who was

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Speaker 1: going to be included in the book in that way?

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Speaker 4: I have a lot of pictures of family, so a

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Speaker 4: lot of them are family. But it's also like I

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Speaker 4: knew I'm trying to make the point that like chosen

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Speaker 4: family is a real thing. And so I also started

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Speaker 4: reaching out to friends that I was like, can I

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Speaker 4: use this beautiful image of you? I promise I'm not

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Speaker 4: writing about you. I just need an image that feels

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Speaker 4: like the character of this person. And yeah, they were

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Speaker 4: just like, go ahead, use this image. And it was

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Speaker 4: it was a matter of like what felt like the needed.

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Speaker 4: Yeah I love that.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about the thea who sees phantasmas? Like

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Speaker 1: who is she? You know, I mean folks listening won't

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Speaker 1: be able to see you have to buy the book,

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Speaker 1: but like there's this like really great image of like

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Speaker 1: the thea who sees phantasmas.

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Speaker 2: She seems cool, so let's talk about her.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about this archetype.

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Speaker 4: I love this one because I think, uh, white people,

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Speaker 4: you know, like because they run industries. It's like a

404
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 4: real thing, right, you have to confront them and pitch

405
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Speaker 4: things to them, you all know, and they like love

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00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 4: buzzy things about us. They love like, oh, look at

407
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 4: talk about your immigrant story, like they really want to

408
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 4: know particular things about the Latina experience. And so I

409
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 4: was approached by Spotify to pitch a podcast, and I

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Speaker 4: was like, bet it took me like an hour. I

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Speaker 4: was like, I've been dreaming of this moment my whole life.

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Speaker 4: And I pitched this podcast called Fantastmas and it was

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Speaker 4: going to talk about ghost stories but also like visit

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Speaker 4: haunted places, do ouiji board readings, and like just do

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Speaker 4: talk with the candle. I don't know if you've ever

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00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 4: done the flame thing, but do that, like do to

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Speaker 4: it all. Because I'm on the cusp of like I

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Speaker 4: believe in ghosts, but I also I'm like, oh, but

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Speaker 4: maybe it's just my imagination, you know. So I'm like

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Speaker 4: I want to prove myself right or wrong. And they

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Speaker 4: never call.

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Speaker 3: Me back rude.

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Speaker 4: But I think it's like that they like us, but like,

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Speaker 4: don't be like that, don't be that weird. That's a

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00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 4: little bit that yeah, yeah, and so like I've been

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Speaker 4: fascinated with that. Like I can talk to a lot

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Speaker 4: of people about a lot of things. A minute, I

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Speaker 4: talk about ghosts. Only other Latinas or people from the

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Speaker 4: Global South stick around. That's really when white people divest

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Speaker 4: from the room, they're like, oh, this is clinical and

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00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 4: you need to like call a professional. That's my favorite

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Speaker 4: one because I also have a ghost in this house.

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Speaker 1: So oh yeah. I mean I see a quote here

434
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 1: about how like you're shocked when people tell you that

435
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: they've never let me read it. I was floored to

436
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: hear that some people have not heard their parents tell

437
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: a single personal encounter with a ghost. I also can't

438
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: think of anyone that hasn't had an experience with a ghost.

439
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 3: You know, my I mean definitely, like, oh, a deceased

440
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 3: relative visiting someone at the foot of their bed or

441
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 3: in their room or on a special occasion. Those things

442
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 3: happen all the time.

443
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's normal.

444
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily like a pneumonia in your closet, but like, yeah, like,

445
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: oh I felt my you know, Awalito come and like

446
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 1: visit me in my dream, and then I felt him

447
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: the next day in the kitchen you.

448
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 3: Know what have you? Yeah? So much so I think

449
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 3: people are even compacts about it, like no, he visited

450
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 3: me actually yesterday, so I don't know if he's visited

451
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 3: you yet, but I saw him.

452
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: Same.

453
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 4: I grew up with so many ghost stories. I heard

454
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 4: everyone's ghost story. I know everytha's most scary ghost story

455
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 4: and the funniest one that they'll retell. Like my partner,

456
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 4: who you all know is white, is like never, we

457
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 4: don't talk about that. WHOA.

458
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: Do you think it's that they don't see them or

459
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: they don't want to.

460
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 3: Talk about it or both, or are the ancestors not

461
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 3: visiting them. They're not. I think they are. Okay, they are, okay, okay.

462
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, because my ghost here is a white man. They're here.

463
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 4: They're just not paying attention to them.

464
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 3: Interesting.

465
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: That is why in the horror movies they stay in

466
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: the house the longest.

467
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 2: Yes, right, yeah, yeah, wow.

468
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: Well, I also want to ask you about the very

469
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: first archetype, which is la la matrica, la matriarch, right,

470
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: because this was so poignant for me to read, because

471
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: I really loved what you said about how and actually,

472
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: not every family's going to have a matriarch and it's

473
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 1: not clearly defined, and you do define what a matriarch is,

474
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: but I've always felt that about my mom's side of

475
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: the family, that there's when my grandmother passed. She passed

476
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: when I was a year old, so I never met her.

477
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: I realized like, oh, we don't have a matriarch, and

478
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: so this was like really really profound for me to

479
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: really think about my family structure and maybe the way

480
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: you theorize, like why this happens and who the matriarch

481
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: is and why that is. So I want to know

482
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: why was it important to you to situate la matriarch

483
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: at the top of the book The very first archetype

484
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: we are introduced to is la matriarch.

485
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 4: I would love to have a wonderful answer for this,

486
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 4: but the editor decided it okay because it is hard

487
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 4: for me to even think of an order my first

488
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 4: book too. It was like somebody organized and I was like,

489
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 4: oh my god, thank you. Sometimes you're too close to

490
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 4: a thing to see how a reader will react to it,

491
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 4: and I was definitely too close to the thing. But

492
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 4: when she put that first, I was like.

493
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, perfection, I love I love it first, and

494
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 1: I was curious. I was wondering if this was like

495
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: you know, when you think of like an album, right,

496
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: an album like sometimes has a story and the songs

497
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: are placed in a certain way. So I was wondering

498
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: if the book was the same way. But that's fine too,

499
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 1: because I think that you know, the chapters, I mean,

500
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: the books starts really strong with this because it's like,

501
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 1: even if we don't have matriarchs in our family, we

502
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: know what a matriarch is, right, and we have like

503
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 1: a definition in our mind or a story, a person,

504
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: an image, even if we don't have one.

505
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean she told me her thought process

506
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 4: around it. It was that it was, this is a

507
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 4: weird book to come into because of the way that

508
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 4: it's written, and so this situates everybody will understand once

509
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 4: they get to the Matriarch and read it, what type

510
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 4: of book this is. To then read the other it

511
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 4: gets from most common I think to most niche is was.

512
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 1: Her process to most niche Okay, interesting, it's.

513
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 3: Sort of like it's sort of like a very poetic

514
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 3: family tree, and like a very specific family tree. Not

515
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 3: everybody is on there, only the essential branches.

516
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 4: I think so too, And I think that there were

517
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 4: some I want that in club. It was just like

518
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 4: I don't know that personally, and I don't like I

519
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 4: wanted to have the gothritima that I just didn't grow

520
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 4: up with a gothritima, but I know they're so freaking common. Yeah,

521
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,719
Speaker 4: Or the queer pritimo who hangs out with the patimas.

522
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 4: I wanted to have him too. I wrote him and

523
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,239
Speaker 4: it just was like, I don't think it's my it's

524
00:28:58,280 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 4: I don't think it's my story to tell.

525
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: I see that. I see that, and I noticed that too.

526
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: So this this kind of illuminates that for me because

527
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: there I did notice that there are more theas and

528
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: there are primas. Yeah was that intentional?

529
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, I think as I'm becoming as I am

530
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 4: a thea now, it was just the ones that I'm

531
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 4: I'm surrounded by theas. It's the ones that feel closer

532
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 4: to me now that I'm like, oh, this is who

533
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 4: we're all becoming, this is who we're all feeling like

534
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 4: now in this stage.

535
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

536
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 3: Really interesting and just because of the age dynamic. Well,

537
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 3: I guess a prima can be of any age, really,

538
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 3: and a thea can be of any age. I mean,

539
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 3: especially like the way that Latinos have kids. Sometimes like

540
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 3: your THEO could be younger than you, right, like just

541
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 3: kind of depending how things go. Yeah, but in theory,

542
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 3: like the thea feels more adult, right, and prima feels

543
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 3: like somebody you grew up with. And maybe like a

544
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 3: thea is a little bit more fully formed their identity,

545
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 3: and maybe a prima is like young or in a

546
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,479
Speaker 3: state of growth or transition or going through a phase.

547
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 3: And so I don't know, how do you like tease

548
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 3: that out? Like these different archetypes are these fixed like identities?

549
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 3: Are these things that change? How do you how did

550
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 3: you work that out?

551
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 4: I do talk about like even with the matriarch, I

552
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 4: mentioned she's someone's thea, she's someone's prima. So I do

553
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 4: mention that, but it wasn't constructing it, like there's the

554
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 4: prima who doesn't like other women. That felt like it

555
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 4: had to be a prima because I don't. I don't

556
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,719
Speaker 4: have very manythas who are that naive about the existence

557
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 4: of men as oppressor, like my theas feel quick with it,

558
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 4: like so Masura, like these words just come out of

559
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 4: them really quickly. Whereas I feel like you have to

560
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 4: be younger to sort of still cling to the men,

561
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 4: like like Arima who won't who doesn't like other women would.

562
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 4: Uh so Yeah, some felt like she has to be young,

563
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 4: she has to be figuring out this stuff that feels

564
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 4: so blatant later.

565
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 3: Right, she's still like in her she's a pigmy prima.

566
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, she doesn't know that, I realize. Yeah, give her

567
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 4: like a few heartbreaks or a few your dad telling

568
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 4: you or something, it starts to fall into place real quick.

569
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and you kind of touch on this in

570
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: the book, but I want to hear you talk about it,

571
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: like can we like move around?

572
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

573
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: Can we like start as like the pretty prima and

574
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: then become Latya loka like you.

575
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: Know what I mean?

576
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: So like how did you how did you see this?

577
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: You know these archetypes in like how maybe they start

578
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: as like a prima that's like the pretty prima and

579
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: then becomes like the Latia guird, the MLMDA you know

580
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: what I mean?

581
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, can we like move around? I try to

582
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 4: hold that at tension a lot when I talk about the.

583
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 3: Beaus.

584
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,959
Speaker 4: I do believe that can come from a perfecta mm hm.

585
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,959
Speaker 4: So that like I try to hold that tension of like,

586
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 4: sometimes shit happens and you transform right before your very eyes.

587
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 4: So yeah, and I'm very much throughout as I'm telling

588
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 4: each archetype. I'm also like and I'm sort of like

589
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 4: that too, and I'm sort of like this too, Like

590
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 4: I think I'm like seventeen of them, So like, I

591
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 4: definitely believe there's just snapshots of like the whole point

592
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 4: is that we're much more complex. So it's the idea

593
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 4: that your Tiao sees Phantasma's is also child free and

594
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 4: like the young thea, all those things can happen, And

595
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 4: I think that that's kind of the fun part of

596
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 4: it is just trying on the hats that fit the most.

597
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 3: Have you it's very grey gardens that transition from pretty

598
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 3: pretty much to it's very great garden. It's very little,

599
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 3: eaty but love. It really is. But I'm wondering if

600
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 3: you've had primas and theas of your own who have

601
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 3: read the book and who see themselves in it and

602
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: who identify themselves.

603
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 4: So my family doesn't read my stuff amazing, I'm so

604
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 4: la loocha that I need prayer, okay, and they don't.

605
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 4: They think I'm like some sort of innlemoniala or just

606
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 4: I've I've lost my way, which is kind of what

607
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 4: when I wrote La Loka. There's like a little anger

608
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 4: in that chapter because it felt like naming the thing

609
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 4: that I don't get to name with them, because the

610
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 4: minute I get angry, I just prove to them that

611
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 4: I'm lost. I just prove to them that I'm I'm

612
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 4: no longer with Jesus and you know, Satan has taken

613
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 4: over my body because I'm so angry and why are

614
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 4: you so angry if you're so happy? Like they'll use

615
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 4: any emotion that I have about the silence that they're

616
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 4: giving me to like fuel there further silencing. So like, yeah,

617
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 4: they don't read me and they're not interested in what

618
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 4: I have to say because I'm la loca.

619
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 3: Interesting.

620
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: I love that the chapter of Letaa Loka because you know,

621
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 1: I really wanted to talk about that, because it wouldn't

622
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: be a loka at that episode without us talking about

623
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: Latia looka, you know, and you talk about how you

624
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: write about how sometimes a loca is born out of nurturing, parenting,

625
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: and encouragement to be their own person, and sometimes la

626
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: loca is made out of friction and pain. And so

627
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: I want to ask you, like, either where the THEA

628
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: looka like we self identify as a the aloka we're

629
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: called the tia looka or we have at thea looka.

630
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: How can we support and love.

631
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 4: This thea is sort of viewed in the same way

632
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 4: that the matriarch is, and it's kind of like she

633
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 4: doesn't she doesn't need any help. She she's got this,

634
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 4: she's strong. Clearly she's doing all this stuff. She's got this.

635
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 4: And I think that that's like a there's like a

636
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 4: there's a tweet that's like check in on your strong friend,

637
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 4: check in on your ta loka, check in on your matriarch,

638
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 4: check in on the oldest daughter. Like the specific people

639
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 4: are carrying a lot more than they should, and specific

640
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 4: people I think are healing wounds from our families that

641
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 4: no one else even wants to mention. So I think

642
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 4: it's it's check in and like make sure that they

643
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 4: know that you do care about them, because it is

644
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 4: easy to hear. It's the voices that are telling you

645
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 4: I'm praying for you sometimes feel louder than the voices

646
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 4: that are like I'm rooting for you.

647
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah that's yeah.

648
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 3: Did you so on this the like self identifying as

649
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 3: this THEA? Is that something that there was a specific

650
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 3: moment in time when you were like, yep, this is me,

651
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 3: I'm tia la loka or was that something that was

652
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 3: put on you and you like found out and then

653
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 3: like one day you realize like, oh, I'm that person, and.

654
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 4: It's it's moments of constantly finding out. And I was

655
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 4: told that I have my loka my knuckles because when

656
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 4: I decided to get divorce. I mean, Mommy on the

657
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 4: phone scream does locus do LOOKA? And I hung up

658
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 4: on her as she was screaming that, and so I

659
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 4: got that tattooed because I was like maybe I I mean,

660
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 4: I think that it takes a certain level of a

661
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 4: disconnect from the reality that I had been raised in

662
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 4: to do what I've been able to do since. So

663
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 4: it is I think it's a complicated term because it's

664
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 4: also like you know, in the spaces that we tend

665
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 4: to navigate is like, don't use the word crazy, You're

666
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 4: not crazy. There's people who are actually mentally insane and

667
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 4: like don't appropriate, like or further stigmatize some people's realities.

668
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 4: And I think that that's valid, and some of us

669
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 4: get to reclaim words that are used to hurt us,

670
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 4: or words that categorically, categorically we might fit into. I

671
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 4: talk about in the book I Have, I've been diagnosed

672
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 4: with this associate of disorder because of my experiences, I

673
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 4: can sort of leave my body and so like clinically

674
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 4: I'm also a loca, and I get to claim that, like,

675
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 4: those are wounds that were given to me, those are

676
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 4: experiences that harmed me, and these are coping mechanisms that

677
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 4: I live with today. So yeah, maybe I am la loca,

678
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 4: and people remind me of that pretty casually.

679
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: I think too, Like the thing about the word crazy

680
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: in the word loka, it is like, even the way

681
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 1: we live our lives today, take us back thirty forty years,

682
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 1: we would have been institutionalized for living our lives this way.

683
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: So it's not that far fetched to be like, yes,

684
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: I am la loca, you know, and I'm going to

685
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: reclaim that for myself, because you really would have institutionalized

686
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: me for wanting a divorce, for having anasm like for

687
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: being a lesbian. So you know, I don't know, I

688
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:05,479
Speaker 1: just wanted to point that out.

689
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 4: And in our countries maybe even like depending on how

690
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 4: rural you get, yeah, and how loud you're being, that

691
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 4: label is still a thing.

692
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 3: It's also this odd, this odd like tension where it's like, oh,

693
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 3: calling you crazy for getting a divorce, right, is like

694
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 3: divorce happens every day, people get divorced. It's a pretty

695
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 3: normal thing. It's like, not that crazy, actually no, So

696
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 3: it's like, don't put that label on this pretty run

697
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 3: of the mill like decision. On the other hand, it's

698
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 3: almost like even though your mom was saying that with

699
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 3: a negative energy, on some levels, she was like identifying

700
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 3: a truth about you, right that you have like come

701
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 3: to like claim. And I don't know. It's that thing

702
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 3: with moms in particular, where it's like my mom is

703
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 3: saying something to me that I don't like and it's

704
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,959
Speaker 3: actually kind of wrong, but also she's kind of right,

705
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 3: and so now what do I do with this?

706
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 4: Yeah? And for me it was like fuck it. Yeah,

707
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 4: than I am and I show up as that at

708
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 4: your house and I'll make you uncomfortable and I'm not

709
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 4: code switching for you like I used to all that. Yeah,

710
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 4: I will show up fully as you have. You know,

711
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 4: knighted me to be.

712
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 3: Right. The floodgates are open, like we can all agree,

713
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 3: so it's agreed, we agree.

714
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, like watch me.

715
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it.

716
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: I love that because you also have, of course the

717
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 1: divorce THEA as the archetype, and you so brilliantly tie

718
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: it with purity culture. And so I want to talk

719
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: about that more because I feel like purity culture and

720
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: the correlation with like trad wives, right, it's like on

721
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: the rise. It's like very ol popular. Yeah, it's like

722
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: a mainstream, like young girls are aspiring to be tradwives,

723
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: and so you know it. I wanted to Yeah, I

724
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 1: think with that background, I want to hear more about

725
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: you know, the archetype of the divorce THEA in the book,

726
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 1: and like how you see that tiede with purity culture.

727
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 4: So I grew up with a Theia who is divorce

728
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 4: and who never remarried and moved back with her mom,

729
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 4: and uh it was it was very hush tones about

730
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 4: it and very shameful that she was divorce and me,

731
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 4: mommy would even like you can never get divorce like

732
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 4: you make a pact in front of God. So when

733
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 4: I got divorced and got sort of that wrath of

734
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 4: how dare you, how dare you think you can provide

735
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 4: an alternate opportunity for anyone in this family, or an

736
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 4: alternate script than the one that we're all supposed to follow,

737
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 4: I really started to think about that theah a lot.

738
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 4: And I mean the way she dated was so secretive,

739
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 4: the way that she moved was so secretive, the way

740
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 4: that she carried shame was so in our faces that

741
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 4: I knew what my options were. It was except my

742
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 4: mom calling me crazy. She she was like, you got

743
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 4: to move back home, like she wanted, let's let's do it.

744
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 4: I'm ready to be my mom. I'm ready to have

745
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 4: you at my home. I remember I did move me

746
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 4: briefly back home and she's like, just go to the

747
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 4: bar and get pregnant. I like, it's your baby.

748
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

749
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 4: I just don't ever be with a man again, don't

750
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 4: get married. But like, let's have a kid. I'll help

751
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 4: you raise it. Like it was very strange. I was

752
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 4: just like, what am I? What are you? What are

753
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 4: you trying to tell me to do? You think I

754
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 4: was thirty. I was like, you think now I'm Dune.

755
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but you put me on to a pasture.

756
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 4: What the fuck. So that archetype felt really important because

757
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 4: of my context, because I do write for somebody who

758
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 4: i'ms from a really churched context. I've seen other divorced

759
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,439
Speaker 4: women in the way that they operate in the church,

760
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 4: the way even I had a boyfriend in high school.

761
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 4: It was the first official boyfriend, like claimed right, not

762
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 4: like a secret one, and we were supposed to obviously

763
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 4: we talked about marriage. Was he'd like talk to my

764
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 4: parents to like date me with a chaperone, and my

765
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 4: mom sat him down once and said, she's not Brisilla.

766
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 4: I don't think it's gonna end up with you because

767
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 4: your mom is divorced.

768
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:45,439
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm dead.

769
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 4: And he would like he was really hurt by it.

770
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 4: He would like bring it up randomly, like with like

771
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,280
Speaker 4: your mom said, I'm not good enough because my mom's divorced,

772
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 4: and like it really hurt him. And I was like,

773
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 4: I can't, I can't ever date anyone to speak Spanish.

774
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 3: The knives were out girls, things these.

775
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 4: Parents can say and like cutting. So yeah, this archetype

776
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 4: felt very particular because I heard a lot about divorced

777
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:19,720
Speaker 4: women that was never good. So I was like, why, why, God,

778
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 4: that's why.

779
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 3: That's why this is so interesting fascinating because Okay, so

780
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 3: the divorce for your mom like triggered something and she's like,

781
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 3: you know what, fuck it, all proprieties out the window,

782
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 3: Let's just have a baby.

783
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

784
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 3: You know, it's like, well we've already we've gotten the divorce, we've.

785
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 4: Broken in the bag anymore, you know, all the.

786
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 3: Pomp and circumstance. Who cares, Let's just get straight to it.

787
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 3: And those things were so important leading up to Yeah,

788
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 3: like in your youth probably I'm coming from a Catholic background.

789
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 3: The way that they hammer all of save yourself for

790
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 3: a marriage and never get divorced and have a family

791
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 3: and until the day you die, that is just hammered in.

792
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 3: And I'm cracking up because recently my mom made a comment.

793
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 3: She was talking to another parent of someone that I

794
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 3: grew up with, and we're now all in our thirties

795
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 3: and none of us are married and none of us

796
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 3: have kids, and so my mom and this other parent

797
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 3: were joking, they were like, you know what, we don't

798
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 3: even care about all that merrige stuff anymore, Like we

799
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 3: just want grandkids, like we don't care how they do it,

800
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 3: like just do it, just get it, give me a baby.

801
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 3: All of a sudden, all that stuff does, all the

802
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 3: rules are gone. They're like we're just however you do it,

803
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 3: just do it, just do something, give us something.

804
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, just fulfill me now, yes, yes, yeah, wow.

805
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so curious. I want to go home and

806
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: ask my mom about this because all of my mom's

807
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: my mom included and her sisters, there's five of them total,

808
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: they were all divorced and like, now I'm wondering, like,

809
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: and my grandparents were religious, but I don't remember them

810
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: being like like oh, like you're done, you know, like

811
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: they were very like, okay, well we're gonna help you

812
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: raise your grandkids. And they moved away around between Texas

813
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: and California depending on who was getting divorced, literally, and

814
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: they were like the support system. So I'm so curious now,

815
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: like I want to go ask, like how did they

816
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: feel about divorce because they were married for fifty years,

817
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,280
Speaker 1: my grandparents and then here here come all the ladies.

818
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: My mom stias, my sister is getting divorced, you know.

819
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm so curious.

820
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:20,760
Speaker 4: It's not real things.

821
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:21,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.

822
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 4: When I started dating, I learned to not tell people

823
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 4: at the beginning that I was divorced because I would

824
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 4: get unmatched. People would stop talking to me, and then

825
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 4: I was like, Okay, I gotta not say anything. But

826
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 4: then after a few hookups, I was like, wait, am

827
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 4: i am I trying to find a husband here? Like

828
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 4: what am I doing? Like? Who cares? Fuck them? So

829
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 4: then I just started screaming it and putting it on

830
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 4: my bio like I was just like, here to have

831
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 4: three husbands and maybe you know what I mean. Like

832
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 4: I was like, let's see what lands. But it was like,

833
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 4: people really know you're you've been divorced. I'm not interested.

834
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 4: And I was like it's twenty fifteen. What are you doing?

835
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:05,959
Speaker 2: Yeah?

836
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, what are we doing here? Yeah?

837
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 4: Yeah?

838
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: Wow. Well there's so many wonderful, impactful archetypes in this

839
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: book and so yeah, I hope everybody goes out and

840
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: reads it. How can folks support your book? Support your work?

841
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: And like, what do you want them to know? What

842
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: do you want them to take away from reading this book?

843
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 4: I want people to just have conversations. I'm interested in conversations,

844
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 4: people generating new thoughts, new ideas. I'm interested in people

845
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 4: disagreeing or interested. I'm just interested in, like, where can

846
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,919
Speaker 4: books like this that go trade, that go mainstream. Where

847
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 4: can the books like this lead us? Because I only

848
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 4: know academic books to do stuff like this for me,

849
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 4: and they're not in the public library. So I'm interested in,

850
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 4: like you know, in the Thanksgipping, you know, everybody's getting

851
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,720
Speaker 4: together and then somebody bringing out that book and talking

852
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 4: some shit Like I want that. I want to ciate

853
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 4: some fights, some good conversations, you know. I think it's

854
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 4: I think it's good. I think we need it, and

855
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 4: I think we are too afraid of conflicts sometimes in

856
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 4: our families that Latina families just want to you know,

857
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,280
Speaker 4: and that's all we care about is like, no, let's

858
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 4: let's let's talk about that one thing you did to

859
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 4: me two years ago.

860
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 3: Let's fight.

861
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, literally, yeah, I know, some healthy conflict. Well, thank

862
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: you Pridy Scott for joining us. This has been such

863
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 1: a fun interview. You're always welcome to come on look

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00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: at a radio.

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00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 4: Thank you. It's always good to see you all. Y'all

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00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 4: look more and more cozy and like in your element

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00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 4: every Time I Talk to y'all.

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00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: Radio is executive produced by Viosa Fem and Mala Munios.

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00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 1: Stephanie Franco is our producer, story editing by Me viosa.

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00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 2: Creative direction by Me Mala look.

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00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: At Radio is a part of iHeartRadio's Michaudura podcast network.

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00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,479
Speaker 3: You can listen to Lokata Radio on the iHeartRadio app

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00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts.

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00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: Leave us a review and share with your Prima or

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00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: share with your homegirl.

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00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 3: And thank you to our local motives, to our listeners

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00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 3: for tuning in each and every week.

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00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: Besitos look Alumi