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Speaker 1: Hey, this is any and SMITHA and welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: I Never Told You Production of iHeartRadio. And as this

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Speaker 1: comes out, this classic, it is the new year. We

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Speaker 1: know there's a lot of problematic messaging, especially towards women

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Speaker 1: in the new year. And also we just did what

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Speaker 1: I call a New Year's movie, The Substance, on this show,

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Speaker 1: and so I thought it would be good to bring

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Speaker 1: back the classic we did on Hollywood's toxic treatment of

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Speaker 1: women because it relates to that, and also I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of us can relate to it because in

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Speaker 1: the New Year, they're just bombarded. We're just bombarded with

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Speaker 1: messages that are not helpful, not great, and don't make

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Speaker 1: you feel good. So please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan Never

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Speaker 1: Told You Production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and welcome to today's episode. And Annie, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: go ahead and start off with a question. Are you ready?

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Speaker 1: I hope? So, yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Hope you are too. Here we go.

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Speaker 3: So, Annie, you are in the world of acting your nectar,

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Speaker 3: and so that makes me ask when you were growing up,

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Speaker 3: was it something that you wanted to do? A and

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Speaker 3: B if so who if you had any were some

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Speaker 3: of the actresses that you looked up to.

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Speaker 1: Well, good question. I have always wanted to act, but

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Speaker 1: I also suffer from a pretty strong anxiety, performance anxiety,

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Speaker 1: and shyness, so I was really bad at it. I'll

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Speaker 1: just be honest with you, like every now and then, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if I could get past those nerves, then it would

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Speaker 1: be great. But usually I'd be up there like four

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Speaker 1: years old, like oh, like shaking, visibly shaking, and so

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Speaker 1: it was a strange thing that I dreaded, Anne loved.

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Speaker 1: And I have some performances I look back on and

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Speaker 1: they gave me great shame. They heat my cheeks with shame.

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Speaker 1: I have auditions that I'm like, please, for the love

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Speaker 1: of everything, I hope this never gets out because it's terrible.

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Speaker 1: I have a panic attack in the middle of one,

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Speaker 1: like whoo. I hurt myself during performance once because my

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Speaker 1: character like fell asleep. She was supposed to fall asleep

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Speaker 1: in the middle, and I just like slammed my head

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Speaker 1: on the table and it was supposed to be funny,

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Speaker 1: and I just remember everyone in the auditor and going ooo.

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Speaker 2: Oh, no, we got a word.

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Speaker 1: And I had a huge bruise on my face like

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Speaker 1: it was bad. Oh no, So I have been doing

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Speaker 1: it since I was probably, and I like to think

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Speaker 1: I've gotten better, but it is still a source of

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Speaker 1: nerves for me. I was very imaginative and I liked

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Speaker 1: coming up with scenarios and I like pretending. So I

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Speaker 1: think that was part of it. And it's interesting for

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Speaker 1: this topic that we're talking about today and for the

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Speaker 1: conversation we had with Eves recently in her last femal

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Speaker 1: first we did, I didn't really the attention was not

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Speaker 1: the thing I wanted, right, So even like that is

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Speaker 1: a huge part of performance, I just wanted to like

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Speaker 1: pretend and act the like people looking at me part No, right, yes,

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Speaker 1: but I did also interesting for this conversation, I did

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Speaker 1: look up to a number of actresses, and Natalie Portman

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Speaker 1: was a big one. After Phantom Menace came out, I

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Speaker 1: was big. I was like, oh, I want to be

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Speaker 1: like her. Oddly enough Scarlett Johansson. But I saw her

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Speaker 1: in Hole in three, which was a movie I loved,

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Speaker 1: and I will admit it, I love it.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing to say oractophobia. I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 1: No. I did watch that though, because David ar Kett

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Speaker 1: was in it. I had a crush on David ar Kidd.

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Speaker 1: No freaks, I'm mixing it up. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, Mary, Kate,

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Speaker 1: Ashley Olsen. Uh. That was. They were big for me,

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Speaker 1: as you know, I was in their fan club and

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Speaker 1: I watched all their stuff.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, I think those were.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure And forgetting other people, but those I think

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Speaker 1: Natalie Portman was my biggest and in terms of like

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Speaker 1: an actor that I was like, right, yes, right.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I was thinking about all of this

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Speaker 3: and I forgot until my niece who I just saw recently,

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Speaker 3: who is in a senior in high school and a

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Speaker 3: part of drama, reminded me that I am a part

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Speaker 3: of the International Thespian Society, and I was like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: I actually did qualify for that, didn't I? Because I

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Speaker 3: was also in drama and I really loved it. And

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Speaker 3: when I tell you I have some really horrible moments,

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Speaker 3: I have some really horrible moments because, as you know,

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Speaker 3: my work at needs to push sometimes I like to

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Speaker 3: work on the edge, and I am one of those

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Speaker 3: that has to do it last minute or it's not

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Speaker 3: gonna be good. And it's gonna be all over the place,

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Speaker 3: which is funny because it's already kind of all over

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Speaker 3: the place, but it would be way worse in way

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Speaker 3: in advance, and I did that way with my auditions,

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Speaker 3: and that did not turn out so well, because middle

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Speaker 3: rizes are not lines like ten minutes of dialogue the

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Speaker 3: night before. Almost impossible, it's true, almost impossible unless you

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Speaker 3: have one of those identic memories, and I do not.

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Speaker 2: I do not, So I did do this on stage.

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Speaker 2: I actually thought I was going to be an actor too.

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Speaker 3: Of course, the reality of it was I was a

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Speaker 3: chubby Asian girl, and there's no way in hell I've

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Speaker 3: not seen many chubby Asian girls in general, unless they

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Speaker 3: are kind of the caricature stereotypical characters, and I would

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Speaker 3: never I didn't want that necessarily, although I do enjoy

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Speaker 3: being funny, so hoping like, the only way I want

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Speaker 3: attention is that I'm making people laugh and then I

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Speaker 3: run away and hope they're not laughing at me.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, actually I was thinking about that.

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh, yeah, I actually know a little

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Speaker 3: bit about this world, a little bit. And I say

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Speaker 3: this in the high school level of a little bit

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Speaker 3: as you know, my acting needs work.

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Speaker 2: But why am I talking about all of this?

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Speaker 3: When it comes to celebrities, we are fascinated, and y'all,

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Speaker 3: I am fascinated. I will do a deep dive about

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Speaker 3: who is connected to whom and how they all know

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Speaker 3: each other. I love playing the third degrees to Kevin Bacon,

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Speaker 3: to Gavin Bacon.

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Speaker 2: If I can, which I never really relate to Kevin.

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Speaker 1: Bacon, but go to a third degree food degrees? What

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Speaker 1: is it? Sixth degrees of Kevin Bacon?

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Speaker 3: Kevin, I didn't even get it right that way degree

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Speaker 3: You want to be accurate.

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Speaker 2: You know what? He was on the Hot Ones.

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Speaker 3: The other day and I was like I am anyway. So,

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Speaker 3: whether it's the projects they're in or about their personal lives,

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Speaker 3: we get invested. I really get invested, so much so

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Speaker 3: that it seems that their lives become public property. More

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Speaker 3: and more conversations have sparked with different controversial topics specific

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Speaker 3: to women and female celebrities and for those whose careers

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Speaker 3: start at an early age even more so so. Today,

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Speaker 3: we wanted to look at what is happening with Hollywood,

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Speaker 3: especially when it comes to the young ladies. So before

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Speaker 3: we start I feel like we need to do some

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Speaker 3: history right because this is what we do. And I've

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Speaker 3: talked a lot about the fact that I feel like

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Speaker 3: I'm lacking a little bit in my life when it

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Speaker 3: comes to hobbies and interests.

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Speaker 2: I just kind of gave up on a lot of things.

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Speaker 3: But I realized as we were researching this topic, there

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Speaker 3: are so many realizations. I was like, oh, yeah, that

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Speaker 3: I was really into old school Hollywood, Like I have

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Speaker 3: a lot of trivia knowledge as well as some interesting facts,

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Speaker 3: and like I've seen the most.

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Speaker 2: Obscure old old movies which you're going to hear me

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Speaker 2: reference and is interesting. But I being like old school,

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Speaker 2: I loved music. And I know I've talked about this with.

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Speaker 3: Eaves actually on here because we both really like musicals,

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Speaker 3: and we'll talk about, hey, have you've seen this, which

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Speaker 3: she gave me one and in the move it's somewhere

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Speaker 3: in my stuff. I need to find it. And I

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Speaker 3: didn't watch it because it's supposed to be a delight

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Speaker 3: in And yes, I mean loved so much so that

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Speaker 3: my mother would always say that I should have been

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Speaker 3: born in the forties, which I always countered with the

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Speaker 3: fact that my Korean self would have never been welcomed

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Speaker 3: in the US, much less in Hollywood.

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Speaker 2: So you know, there's that.

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Speaker 3: But alas, I loved it, loved it so much that

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Speaker 3: I would watch documentaries about different movie stars and movies.

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Speaker 3: And also in my mind, I just knew I could

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Speaker 3: time travel to meet them, like I had these fantasies

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Speaker 3: one day, time traveling to meet these people, which would

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Speaker 3: have been a horrible mistake because a lot of people

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Speaker 3: were awful people. But when it came down to the reality, well,

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Speaker 3: it was ugly. And the more I learned, I think

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Speaker 3: the more we realized how awful it must have been

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Speaker 3: for a lot of them, especially the women, especially young women.

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Speaker 3: I guess here we should go ahead and let you

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Speaker 3: know that we are going to talk a bit about

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Speaker 3: some of the trauma and traumatic experiences of many of

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Speaker 3: these stars, including abuse, eating disorder, sexualization of a young girls,

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Speaker 3: and the such. So, even though we're not going to

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Speaker 3: go too heavily into the deep deep, we are going

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Speaker 3: to talk about why this can be ugly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is no longer a secret that the

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Speaker 1: movie industry was not all glitz and glamour, especially for

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Speaker 1: young women. If you read memoirs and and biographies on

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Speaker 1: past stars like Judy Garland, Elizabeth Taylor, Shirley Temple, I

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Speaker 1: would add Carrie Fisher, and so many more. We saw

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Speaker 1: all this abuse that young stars went through, how they

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Speaker 1: were treated as property less than human. Horror stories after

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Speaker 1: horror stories of abuse and harassment haunted the old movies

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Speaker 1: that so many of us a door. Garland told the

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Speaker 1: story being so medicated that she wasn't able to come

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Speaker 1: to set on time and being hospitalized thanks to studio

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Speaker 1: execs and even her own mother who push sure beyond

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Speaker 1: her sanity and her health to become a perfect young starlet.

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Speaker 1: The overall pressure on the young stars was detrimental and

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Speaker 1: was coming from all sides, including Yes family, and oftentimes

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Speaker 1: the stars were the breadwinners of the family. Even America's

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Speaker 1: sweetheart Shirley Temple, who I also did love, Yes, talked

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Speaker 1: about the overwhelming moments of not wanting to disappoint her

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Speaker 1: mother and even her father. Elizabeth Taylor, though she seemed

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Speaker 1: to have a better relationship with her parents, still knew

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Speaker 1: she had to keep going for them and even for

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Speaker 1: her fans. In her biography, her mother was quoted to

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Speaker 1: have said, but you're not a regular child, and thank

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Speaker 1: God for that. You have a responsibility, Elizabeth, not just

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Speaker 1: to this family, but to the country now and the

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Speaker 1: whole world.

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Speaker 2: Right And honestly, it doesn't seem like it's changed much.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a little more awareness and we try

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Speaker 2: a little see what's happening.

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Speaker 3: But when it comes to the expectations place on young stars,

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Speaker 3: the responsibility of building a fandom and building a persona

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Speaker 3: and helping provide for their families, it's still there were

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Speaker 3: young girls. The fine line between infantilizing and sexualizing causes

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Speaker 3: even more emotional and physical stress, which has been around

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Speaker 3: from the beginning of time when it comes to Hollywood

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Speaker 3: celebrities and celebrities in general.

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Speaker 2: In the early memoirs of these classic Hollywood.

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Speaker 3: Stars, there were many who talked all the ongoing stress

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Speaker 3: of growing up too fast or those who are not

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Speaker 3: growing up fast enough. Shirley Temple's career became stagnant after

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Speaker 3: her early childhood career as many could not see her

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Speaker 3: as an adult with an actual adult body, and it

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Speaker 3: may have been due to the hardworking machine of studio

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Speaker 3: publicists and media at the time, but it was odd

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Speaker 3: to know her from classics like the Little Princess to

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Speaker 3: seeing her in the movie That Hagen Girl, which I

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Speaker 3: have seen and really threw me for a loop.

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Speaker 2: I was very young when I watched this.

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Speaker 3: Of course, Hirley Templewole was already an ambassador and has

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Speaker 3: gone on to live her own life, but it started

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Speaker 3: her and Ronald Reagan, which at that time I'd never

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Speaker 3: seen Ronald Reagan in a movie. I knew he was

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Speaker 3: an actor at one point in time, but I never

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Speaker 3: actually seeing him in a movie.

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Speaker 2: So this kind of like whoa there he is?

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Speaker 3: Who was, by the way, is seventeen years older than

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Speaker 3: her during this time, so she was nineteen and he

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Speaker 3: was thirty six, and in this he was her romantic lead.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, the plot of the movie was that he

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Speaker 3: may have been her father because she was orphaned and

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Speaker 3: she was trying to figure that out. But then it

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Speaker 3: turned out, thank goodness, he wasn't because he was slowly

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Speaker 3: falling in love with her, and then they go off

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Speaker 3: into the train station to go get married. It was

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Speaker 3: a very odd setup to me, and I remember with

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Speaker 3: obviously it is distinct in my mind, I'm like, this

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Speaker 3: does not compute, does not compute. But yeah, but honestly, though,

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Speaker 3: even though we talk about Shirley Temple being infantilized and

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Speaker 3: being young and trying to stay young, like they made

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Speaker 3: her younger. They lied about her age on the contract

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Speaker 3: so she could continue beyond the time limit. But her

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Speaker 3: first film had her in an exotic bar during a

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Speaker 3: war film called War Babies, so it was kind of like, hmm,

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Speaker 3: did she actually just get thrown into that way? And

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Speaker 3: Elizabeth Taylor was sexualized at a very early age due

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Speaker 3: to her physically developing early and even being pushed to

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Speaker 3: be set up on fate dates to show how quickly

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Speaker 3: she was becoming a woman. So the studio execs were

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Speaker 3: excited that she was growing up, and I like fifteen

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Speaker 3: sixteen pushed her into that genre very quickly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And for that time, this type of push was

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Speaker 1: accepted and not well regulated. There were stories of separating

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Speaker 1: child stars from the parents so they could discipline children

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Speaker 1: however necessary for the movie, including locking children boxes, making

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Speaker 1: them sit on blocks of ice if they were not obedient,

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Speaker 1: pushing actors to work beyond the regulated times, and other

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Speaker 1: horror stories so much so that studies were conducted of

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Speaker 1: child stars and performers and how they may be affected

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Speaker 1: emotionally and physically. By all of this, many young girls

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Speaker 1: talked about how they experienced sexual harassment during their times

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Speaker 1: on studios and sets, and many talked about the overly

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Speaker 1: strictitude of their parents pushing them into that career. And

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of conversation around that in

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Speaker 1: terms of reality TV show right well right. One article

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Speaker 1: we found talked about the impact of being a celebrity

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Speaker 1: as a child and of the impacts of the motivation

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Speaker 1: of both child and parents, and how that could determine

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Speaker 1: a child's experience, as well as the amount of time

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Speaker 1: they spend in the spotlight environment and the child's age.

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Speaker 1: And in the same article they said, these children are

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Speaker 1: at high risk of becoming emotionally unstable and of becoming drug, alcohol,

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Speaker 1: or sex abusers. Children at different ages display behavioral changes

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Speaker 1: that might indicate that they are risk.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's just the article was talking mainly about

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Speaker 3: the type of high risk behavior that they would have

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Speaker 3: if they were monitored and how this could go a ride.

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Speaker 3: Of course, they used Drew Barrymore as an example as

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Speaker 3: she was introduced to that lifestyle very young by her

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Speaker 3: mother thinking. You know, her mother was thinking she can

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Speaker 3: be a cool kid, as well as Elizabeth Taylor being

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Speaker 3: very sexualized very early and told this is her worth,

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Speaker 3: and so her finding that as her worth and trying

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Speaker 3: to really capitalize on it, not only in her screen

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Speaker 3: life but on her personal life. So it was very

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Speaker 3: interesting take in that conversation. It was a fairly old article,

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Speaker 3: and I wonder what they would say, because you're right,

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Speaker 3: we don't even talk about reality TV in this and

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Speaker 3: how that changes. We do talk a little bit about

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Speaker 3: social media, so kind of on that same level, but

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Speaker 3: when it comes to reality.

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Speaker 2: TV, what does it do? Who does it harm?

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Speaker 3: And is it really healthy? Have we seen a good example?

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of questions. Yeah, the role of media

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Speaker 3: has always helped to make or break careers, and it

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Speaker 3: was a bit more manageable during the so called Golden

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Speaker 3: Age of film, and I say manageable, manipulated, but they

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Speaker 3: held a lot of power, but in a different way

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Speaker 3: than today.

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Speaker 2: Will a little more.

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Speaker 3: About how media affects today versus then, but historically it

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Speaker 3: was no different. And Elizabeth Taylor's biography, the author talks

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Speaker 3: about Taylor's own connections with a popular columnist who helped

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Speaker 3: make many careers as well as ended many and how

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Speaker 3: often studios would use the media to keep the perfect

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Speaker 3: image of their stars.

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Speaker 2: At all expenses.

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Speaker 3: Essentially, they would pay whatever in order to keep that going,

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Speaker 3: and unsurprisingly, all the success caused a lot of competition

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Speaker 3: among stars, which is still around. Elizabeth Taylor's feud with

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Speaker 3: Debbie Reynolds painted Taylor as a villain, as the temptress

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Speaker 3: who came and stole her man, which she kind of did,

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Speaker 3: and then roles were fought over. More fuse happened, and

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Speaker 3: it kept them on their toes because essentially the studios

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Speaker 3: wanted this to happen. They needed the stars to know

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Speaker 3: they're expendable, and the evils of comparing young stars with

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Speaker 3: each other was prevalent in order to keep them in line.

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Speaker 1: But the overall usage of shame and guilt was a

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Speaker 1: cloud leaming over all of them. Body shaming began from

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Speaker 1: the start, with young stars brought in to be inspected, judged,

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Speaker 1: and oftentimes physically changed, including plastic surgery and dangerous dregs

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Speaker 1: being used to keep young girls thin even if they

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Speaker 1: didn't need to be. So, the question remains, has it changed?

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Speaker 2: Has it changed?

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Speaker 3: Well? Ah, Unfortunately, when it comes to sexualizing or infantalizing

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Speaker 3: young stars. Nothing has really changed, Honestly, it seems it

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Speaker 3: may have gotten worse, thanks in part to things like

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Speaker 3: social media and the Internet as a whole. In one

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Speaker 3: article from NBC about Natalie Portman's own experience as a

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Speaker 3: child's actor, they write, quote, Hollywood bifurcates young women's sexualities,

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Speaker 3: so they usually only have two options to be hyper

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Speaker 3: sexual or to deny that they are sexual at all

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Speaker 3: and it's true, which often leads the audience and fans

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Speaker 3: to only see these actors in one specific way and

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Speaker 3: then if that's if that image is torn part. Oftentimes

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Speaker 3: this at the expense of the actress themselves, as in fact,

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Speaker 3: Portman talked about how one of her first fan letters

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Speaker 3: was a rape fantasy written about her by an adult

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Speaker 3: man and they sent it to her as a fan, which, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but that's not the.

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Speaker 2: Worst of it.

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Speaker 3: We've seen repeatedly how media will scorn a young actress

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Speaker 3: about what they wear, how much they weigh, and whether

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Speaker 3: they fit.

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Speaker 2: The mold of that perfect star.

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Speaker 3: And a prime example, of course is Britney Spears, who

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Speaker 3: has been raked over the calls for any and everything,

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Speaker 3: eventually leading her to the conservativeship against her will. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: I know we've talked about this before, but I think

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Speaker 3: it's really she is a good highlight of what has

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Speaker 3: happened recently and what we're kind of learning from, but

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Speaker 3: not enough.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, she went from being the virgin to the

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Speaker 1: horror within a few years, with every aspect of her

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Speaker 1: life being ridiculed and scrutinized, and later I'm being critiqued

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Speaker 1: in her parenting and of course her body as a whole,

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Speaker 1: and the overall obsession in her sex life was a

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Speaker 1: complete double standard in comparison to her male counterparts, as

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Speaker 1: in fact, while she was ridiculed and publicly grilled and

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Speaker 1: TV interviews, her ex boyfriend was being praised as being

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Speaker 1: a man for getting quote into her pants, many conservative

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Speaker 1: parent groups were admonishing her as a bad influence and

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Speaker 1: would shame her as well as any of her fan beies,

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Speaker 1: proving once again a dan if you do, dan if

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Speaker 1: you don't for so many of the young celebrities, right, and.

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Speaker 3: We also have seen the disturbing conversations about young teens

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Speaker 3: who we as fans have been able to see grow

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Speaker 3: up but quickly become an object of obsession and sexualization.

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Speaker 3: Examples include the different redditen blogs that have countdown clocks

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Speaker 3: to when young girls.

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Speaker 2: Were turning eighteen years old.

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Speaker 3: Example Emma Watson, I think she had a whole post

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Speaker 3: of her turning sixteen.

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Speaker 2: A radio show did that.

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Speaker 3: I believe a rapper did it for Kendall Jin when

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Speaker 3: she was turning eighteen, to the fact that I think

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Speaker 3: someone actually propositioned her to do a sex tape when

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Speaker 3: she turned immediately eighteen, or even worse put in situations

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Speaker 3: such as Mara Wilson, who is a child star of

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Speaker 3: movies such as Matilda and Missus Doubtfire, were images of

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Speaker 3: her on foot feedgi sites and she was photoshopped into

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Speaker 3: child pornography all before the age of twelve, and today

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Speaker 3: it's still happening as the new season of Stranger Things

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Speaker 3: has been released, which I binged, yes I did and

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Speaker 3: start Millie Bobby Brown's recent eighteenth birthday, her image and

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Speaker 3: style has been sexualized and criticized by so meaning. Of course,

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Speaker 3: it didn't just start when she turned eighteen, but has

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Speaker 3: been a topic of conversation since she's hit the spotlight,

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Speaker 3: and on top of that, she's having to defend herself

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Speaker 3: from strangers who seem to think they know her enough

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Speaker 3: to judge her, including people calling her a bitch off

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Speaker 3: the fact that they can just tell yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I was talking to one of my friends, Marissa,

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Speaker 1: who's been on here. Hello Marissa, she's like my other

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Speaker 1: TikTok person. It's you and her sent me the tiktoks

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Speaker 1: that I need. And I was asking her about this

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Speaker 1: because this was sort of the impetus you told me

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Speaker 1: about this on TikTok was sort of impetus for this episode.

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Speaker 1: And she she's a huge Stranger Things fan, and she

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Speaker 1: was telling me like she remembered when Millie Bobby Brown

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Speaker 1: was younger, like really young, and people would pull her apart,

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Speaker 1: terror apart because she talked too much. So she wasn't

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Speaker 1: like PR trained. She was a child who was excited,

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Speaker 1: so they tore her apart. And now they're mad, according

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Speaker 1: to Marissa, and I believe Marissa. Now they're mad because

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00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 1: she seems more cold and like closed off. But she's

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Speaker 1: doing the thing that they were telling her she should

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Speaker 1: have done as a child. Basically, she got PR training.

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Speaker 3: It sounds like essentially, I know there was one post

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Speaker 3: where she they were doing publicity for Stranger Things. It

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Speaker 3: was the whole cast, and she came out I think

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Speaker 3: of the crowd and came to the front because of

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Speaker 3: another ptographer. You know, someone had requested it, or she

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Speaker 3: had been pushed up or something, and it wasn't just

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Speaker 3: because she did it. And one of the photographers like,

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Speaker 3: she's so annoying. Why did get out of the way,

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Speaker 3: And it was like, wait, she's just doing what she's

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Speaker 3: been insuanted to do. Why are you doing this? And

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Speaker 3: then another post which she criticized and I put this

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Speaker 3: in quote marks, but she was saying if she could

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Speaker 3: change something that she wished more deaths, said she wanted

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Speaker 3: like a Game of Thrones level of deaths in the

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Speaker 3: show because it didn't feel realistic. And then she was

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Speaker 3: teasing the Duffer brothers are saying, you know, they're being pansies.

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Speaker 2: They need they need to just go.

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Speaker 3: Ahead kill people off. And of course they responded, they're like,

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Speaker 3: all right, we got you. But the way they presented

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Speaker 3: it was Millie Bobby Brown criticizes directors, and it was

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Speaker 3: obviously a push of a dig as if she was

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Speaker 3: truly saying this, And even still it seemed in the

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Speaker 3: interview if you actually read the interview, it was obvious

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Speaker 3: that she had said this to them before, making fun

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Speaker 3: of them and or tease them and set it out loud,

436
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 3: and then to misconstrued us her being a bit complaining

437
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 3: about the show. So it was very interesting to see

438
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 3: how they are really framing what she is doing, how

439
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 3: she is being, her being professional, her being I mean,

440
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 3: she is now a pro at this. She has done

441
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 3: this since as child, probably more understanding of this limelight

442
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 3: than a lot of people. So she is an old

443
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,120
Speaker 3: hat in this. But because of that, she's too confident,

444
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 3: she's too sure what is she doing, which does make

445
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 3: you think.

446
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: Right it does it does something else that makes you

447
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: think there are these old school ideas that can still

448
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: lead to a loss of opportunity for these young stars,

449
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: such as Vanessa Hudgins, who was fired from Disney after

450
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: nude pictures of her were leaked, Which actually leads to

451
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: a whole other topic which we want to revisit, concerning

452
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: how the media and people in general exploit celebrities by

453
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: releasing private data or information for the sake of gossip.

454
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 1: I also want to add in here, and this all

455
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 1: reminds you of when it was a big deal when

456
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: Order the Phoenix came out and Emma Watson that name

457
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: was fifteen, fifteen sixteen, and the company or somebody who

458
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: worked for the company photo shopped her boobs to be bigger,

459
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 1: and people were like, Hi, that's it, that's a kid, that's.

460
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 2: That's really unnecessary.

461
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: Why are you why are you doing this? And I

462
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,959
Speaker 1: remember being like, it just sends a message. A lot

463
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 1: of this sends a message to young girls who are

464
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: consuming it. Right. But yeah, speaking of.

465
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 2: Media, right, let's jump into it.

466
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 3: So we did talk about earlier how media does impact

467
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 3: and it's changed a little bit since that time, and

468
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 3: it's not so controlled by studios anymore.

469
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 2: So.

470
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 3: After the release of Framing Britney Spears, there was a

471
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 3: new flurry of conversation about how we as a society

472
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 3: treat young women in Hollywood.

473
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 2: Of course, if you're my age range. One of the biggest.

474
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 3: Conversations the impact of media celebrities was due to the

475
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 3: tragic death of Princess Diana, which we could talk about

476
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 3: how Megan Markle is being scrutinized in a similar way today,

477
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 3: of course, with the added plus of racist media, so

478
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 3: that's a whole different conversation, but we did highlight how

479
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 3: so many of the celebrities during that time were often

480
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 3: dragged through the mud for clickbaity articles and selling just tabloids.

481
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 3: And that was the kind of the beginning of TMZ

482
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 3: Entertainment tonight, all that which was just all about celebrity gossip.

483
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 3: And yeah, as we look in hindsight, we see that

484
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 3: there's something fundamentally wrong when someone's trauma is used to

485
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,239
Speaker 3: get a bit of cash or notoriety. As writer as

486
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 3: Shandon McGuigan, so sorry if I said that wrong, writs

487
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 3: in her article on the media's treatment of female public figures.

488
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 3: Quote the intensity of the media's hounding of Brittany highlighted

489
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 3: a real lack of empathy shown towards the star, And

490
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 3: this was a statement from Hannah Davies in that article,

491
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 3: which was The Guardian's deputy TV editor at the time.

492
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 3: She further declared that Brittany was dehumanized in the eyes

493
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 3: of the media and the public, with society expressing and

494
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 3: intense amounts of judgment that was regarded as socially acceptable,

495
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 3: demonstrated through March plastered with jokes of Brittany surviving two

496
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 3: thousand and eight being produced for profit, and we know

497
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 3: how all of that went down, all of the clips,

498
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 3: and if you got a photo in her distress, it

499
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 3: was paid for by thousands and thousands of dollars.

500
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: And the messier the better for the media headlines insinuating

501
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 1: mental health breakdowns, drug usage, messy breakups pushed young celebrities

502
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: to the edge, and though teen boys were talked about,

503
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: it was never to the same degree that the young

504
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: teen girls received. They pitted women against women for bigger

505
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: headlines like we had the whole teaen Gin or Team

506
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 1: Angelina and came to Brad Pitt.

507
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 2: There was t shirts.

508
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it was a huge thing. I

509
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: just remember like going down like checking out the grocery store,

510
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 1: and like every magazine cover was it is I know,

511
00:26:54,720 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 1: I know. Wow. Then we all so saw blaming women

512
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 1: for sexual aggression, like Janet Jackson, the whole Super Bowl thing,

513
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: accusing women of being divas or bitches like Mariah Carey

514
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: and Megan Fox. And we've talked a bit about the

515
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: villainizing of these women in part due to men purposely

516
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: ruining careers for not playing the submissive ladies that Hollywood

517
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: once dominated, like Weinstein and Michael Bay right, if you

518
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: try to get out of that box, and you're right.

519
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 3: I mean, there was plenty of women who have since

520
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 3: come out that I have been ostracized and blacklisted because

521
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 3: I would not be victimized by these men. And it's

522
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 3: quite interesting because it does. It's reminiscent of old Hollywood.

523
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there are some people who are finally getting

524
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: there due like Britney Spears, who has been freed from

525
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: the controversial conservative ship and is starting to get some

526
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: apologies from the many who exploited her lowest points in

527
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,719
Speaker 1: her life, Megan Fox being vindicated from her ruined reputation.

528
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: And there are those who are able to take a

529
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: step back and take control of those traumatic narratives, such

530
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: as Mara Wilson, who I also loved as a kid,

531
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 1: and some who have been able to continue in their

532
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: career on their own terms, like Nali Portman and Natasha Leone.

533
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 3: You know, I guess we should mention stepping back would

534
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 3: be Mary Kate and Ashley, whom you love so dearly.

535
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: I loved them so much. I could tell them apart.

536
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: They're not identical twins, they're fraternal twins. I would like

537
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 1: it was the most annoying habit. I'd be like, oh

538
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: that's Ashley. Oh sorry Kate, and everyone's like, please stop

539
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: if we're watching it.

540
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: Take talent, that's an important talent.

541
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 3: And of course some credit movements like the Me Too

542
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,239
Speaker 3: movement and holding the media accountable for the insensitive and

543
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 3: often traumatic content in relation to young actresses and female celebrities,

544
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 3: but others say has a lot to do with social

545
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 3: media as well and how individuals are able to direct

546
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 3: the conversation. Again, and the whole accountability stuff is pretty

547
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 3: pretty significant. Whether that is good or bad, some can't tell.

548
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 3: In this era of accountability, call outs, call ins, and canceling.

549
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 2: Social media can be a slippery slope. We all know this.

550
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 3: Many celebrities have already remained largely offline due to being

551
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 3: harassed or targeted, and several have vowed to never be

552
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 3: online due to the.

553
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: Overall privacy issue.

554
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 3: That's fair, and there are celebrities who use their social

555
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 3: media as a way to connect with fans and the

556
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 3: tool to keep their fans updated in their lives, which

557
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 3: can be good. But some have talked about the overall

558
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 3: pressures and anxiety social media causes and how they can

559
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 3: no longer participate or have to take extended breaks from it.

560
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: Stars like Selena Gomez and Millie Bobby Brown have either

561
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 3: taken breaks from social media for their mental health or

562
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 3: overall for the safety of others. I know at one

563
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 3: point Millie Bobby Brown had one of her pictures taken

564
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 3: to become a meme and it was really homophobic. It

565
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 3: was very hurtful, and she was like, I had no

566
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 3: thing to do with this, and it came out it

567
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 3: wasn't her, but it was being accredited to her and

568
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 3: people were attacking her and she had to come off.

569
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 3: Of course, you know, we've talked about constantly how yeah,

570
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 3: we have to be very careful and we're not celebrities,

571
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 3: so I couldn't imagine having millions and millions of followers

572
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 3: who may turn on you at any moment.

573
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and that's why we're big proponents here. I

574
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: think it's just good at internet practice, like do your

575
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: research before you just like tweet something or right, just

576
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: find out where it's from or what's going on, uh,

577
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: because it might not be what you think and then

578
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: you might attack someone who really had nothing to do

579
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: with it nothing. Yeah. Yeah. And also Mersa was telling

580
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: me about this documentary she watched with Taylor Swift and

581
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: she was like, Taylor Switch has a whole like team

582
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: that's like, here we go, We're gonna tweet this out.

583
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: How we're gonna word it was the best way? And right, Oh, I.

584
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 3: Know, I know a lot of popstars are having to

585
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 3: like they are told they have to in order to

586
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 3: release their albums and that things are being settled hostage

587
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 3: in order to get it done. So there's such a

588
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 3: whole layer that it would suck to be on that

589
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 3: level celebrity with no power.

590
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: Yes it would, Yes, it would. Something else that also

591
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: sex as being under constant scrutiny by the masses, and

592
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: it has pushed many celebrities to go dark. And we

593
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,719
Speaker 1: have talked about this a lot when it comes to

594
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: things like Star Wars and Marvel, like the big franchises

595
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: where they get, especially women and other marginalized folks, get

596
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: all of this hate and not really anybody coming to

597
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: their defense right in terms of like their co stars,

598
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: like the studio, and so they leave and yeah, the

599
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: as we've also discussed, there is a bigger conversation of

600
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: bots because a lot of it is bots and also

601
00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: just protection from harassment for these marginalized folks, the impact

602
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: that can have, what we could possibly do, because it

603
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: is a huge problem.

604
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 3: Right again, of course we talked about the fandom, toxic

605
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 3: fandom and the gatekeeping. There's a lot of conversation in that,

606
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 3: and we know that's not always the case. But yeah,

607
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 3: we've seen a lot of marginalized women specifically getting targeted

608
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 3: just because they just don't like it period and they

609
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 3: have nothing to do with creating the character other than

610
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 3: acting and typically acting the hell out of it. And

611
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 3: we love it and it had it been a standalone

612
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 3: people probably would not have never.

613
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: Had a second thought. But of course, yeah, we can't

614
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 2: have nice things.

615
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: No, Yeah, well, speaking of speaking of social media, the

616
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: age of social media has led to this idea of anonymity,

617
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: which allows for individuals who in person may be they

618
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: may seem okay, but online feel very imbold in Tuesday

619
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: whatever whenever, without recourse, as we have learned through many

620
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: criticism of this podcast, this very podcast. And then I

621
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: used to have to answer these things on YouTube and

622
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: I'd be like, Hi, have a nice day or whatever,

623
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: and they'd be like wow, someone responded, I'm like, yeah,

624
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: some poor soul.

625
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: I don't read this.

626
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: Yes, and all of this begs the question is this okay?

627
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: And what is our responsibility as a fan of something

628
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: or of someone. As young actresses and celebrities grow up,

629
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: the world watches their every move and oftentimes makes these judgments,

630
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: and they feel the need to do so through their keyboard,

631
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: thinking they won't be noticed or yeah, even like on

632
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: a podcast, start through other mediums like this, feel like

633
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: they can make these criticisms. It's okay. When fans and

634
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: critics become too familiar with the celebrity, we often forget

635
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: that they are yes, human, there is somebody there and

636
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: they deserve to be treated as such. Two women podcasters

637
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: felt the need to call Milling Bobby Brown a bitch

638
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: because they felt she just seemed that way. And again

639
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: that's sort of what got this idea.

640
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this whole level, and honestly, there's so much

641
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 3: more to that, because we know there's this whole critic like,

642
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 3: she just seems to like people someone I wouldn't like.

643
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 2: She just seems like it.

644
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 3: That's fine, you don't have to like everybody, But what

645
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 3: does this need to call them in such a derogatory

646
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 3: manner without knowing them and instead of like just having

647
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 3: a moment of like I wonder, I wonder what kind

648
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 3: of pressures they are. I just keep them out of

649
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 3: your mouth, don't speak about them.

650
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 2: That's all it takes.

651
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 3: And speaking of criticism, that kind of just doesn't make

652
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 3: sense other than she's a woman that you don't want

653
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 3: to see in this I don't know. One of those

654
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 3: critics felt Carrie mulligan was not a good pick to

655
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 3: carry out the role of a film fatale character, even

656
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 3: though her performance in the movie Promising Young Women was

657
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 3: well received, and her hitting back at the criticism as

658
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 3: a sexist and even agist remark was actually countered with

659
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 3: another criticism as saying that that there is a right

660
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 3: to be able to criticize and critique a celebrities appearance

661
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 3: and actors appearance if it seems like they are miscast.

662
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 3: So I went through, we went through when we were

663
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 3: looking at this and speaking about this article, because it

664
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 3: was a pretty big deal. Kay, Mulligan came out pretty

665
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 3: strong and being like, Okay, we get it. You don't

666
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 3: like me as this cast, you don't believe me as

667
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 3: being the fat teale. That's on you. But why do

668
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 3: we need to go about this appearance thing. And I

669
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 3: even mentioned, like the article that was written in even

670
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 3: mentioned well, Margot Robbie was a producer. I'm sure it

671
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 3: wasn't intended for her, so obviously like a backhanded criticism.

672
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 2: About her appearance.

673
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 3: And then someone came in defense of that, not saying

674
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 3: necessarily that her looks should have been critiqued, but more

675
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 3: so that we as the audience, should be able to

676
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 3: say this probably wasn't cast right based on appearance, based

677
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 3: on looks, which seemed wasn't.

678
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 2: The same to me.

679
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 3: I kind of understood what they were going with this,

680
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 3: but at the same time, but this is this is

681
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 3: a little bit ages. Obviously what they wanted was the hot, blonde, tall,

682
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 3: young fatale that we have seen so often.

683
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: And Kay Mulligan's not that old. No talk about that.

684
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 2: He he's not that old, So none of that makes

685
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 2: sense in itself.

686
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 3: But of course they talked about, you know, women wouldn't

687
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 3: want to see, which was really odd Chris Hemsworth playing

688
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 3: a dowdy poet, and I was like, why not before

689
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 3: you what are you talking about. We've seen honky men

690
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 3: playing serious roles. We've seen ridiculous comedians being the serious,

691
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 3: filling guy, like I mean Jim Carrey won awards for

692
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 3: his serious roles, which you would never thought this slapstick

693
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 3: comedian could do and even seen as like a leading man,

694
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 3: So it kind of like, no, we don't have that.

695
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 3: Of course, she talked about the fact that we should

696
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 3: be able to say, have this critique so we could

697
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 3: open up for more different variations of looks to take.

698
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 2: Leading roles, but I don't feel like.

699
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 3: That was where they were going with this, especially in

700
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 3: critiquing that specifically.

701
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I think that we are much more forgiving

702
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: in general of men, whether it's perceiving them to be

703
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 1: a bitch or not. Like women have to be nice

704
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: and grateful they got this role right, and you have

705
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: to be because we have limited roles for women like

706
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: we have historically in Hollywood and the like. I believe

707
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: the average age for women winning an oscar like ten

708
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 1: years ago, so this might have changed. It was twenty

709
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: six and for a man it was fifty three. So wow,

710
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: I think we have like and by we, I mean

711
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: audiences have this idea of for women it is this

712
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 1: and it looks like this, and I can critique her

713
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: appearance because that's what women is about. For men, it

714
00:37:52,040 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: could be they could do anything but women. And I

715
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: know I've told this story before. I had I had

716
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: a for me, a pretty big break, pretty big role,

717
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: and the night I was supposed to shoot it, the

718
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: guy told me that one of the oh, I don't know,

719
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: one of the crew, he was like, it sucks to

720
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: be in an industry where it's all about your looks, right,

721
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: And I looked at him and I was like, what what?

722
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: And then they gave it to a man because he

723
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: was like, I think I think it'd be better. I

724
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: think it'd be more believable for a man did this.

725
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 1: I was like, what what?

726
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah?

727
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 3: And this most like that that you realize this is

728
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 3: not an easy industry in itself, that it's not set

729
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 3: up for just anyone, which is a whole different conversation. Yeah.

730
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 3: And then there's this debate of crossing boundaries, which that

731
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 3: dude cross a boundary, I would say, but I'm referencing

732
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 3: to celebrities. Is it okay to interrupt a celebrity during

733
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,240
Speaker 3: a dinner for a photo? Is it okay to film

734
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 3: or take pics without their knowledge or permission? Can we

735
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 3: go into somebody's home without permission for souvenirs. Of course,

736
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 3: these are more rhetorical questions, but it has become less

737
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 3: and less acceptable to cross these boundaries, which is great,

738
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 3: But at the same time, we've seen a lot of

739
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 3: backlash for those who are private and seek to keep

740
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 3: it that way. So people who get upset if you've

741
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 3: been waiting at their hotel room and they don't want

742
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 3: to stop to talk to you, right, we get it,

743
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 3: like you love them and you feel like you have

744
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 3: this ideal of them. But if they're tired, they're tired,

745
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 3: and they should have the right to say that. We

746
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 3: saw recently Tom Hanks America Sweetheart, get very angry when

747
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,919
Speaker 3: his wife and I don't know exactly what happened when

748
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 3: Rita Wilson, who is a celebrity as well also his.

749
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,280
Speaker 2: Wife, but either tripped got pushed.

750
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 3: There was a lot of conversation about what happened, and

751
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 3: he lost it and cursed that people to be like,

752
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 3: calm down off, And that's his right, that makes sense,

753
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 3: but he got a lot of backlash for it too,

754
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 3: Like he got both love and hate for that reaction,

755
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 3: and it kind of has that point of like, okay,

756
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 3: so what is this line how do we make sure

757
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 3: we don't cross those boundaries? But what is this line

758
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 3: of like, you're celebrity and this is kind of what happens.

759
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 3: And I know the kind of maybe this is just

760
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 3: making making it up seeing too many movies, like they

761
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 3: love it at first and then they hate it. Yeah,

762
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 3: so kind of those two things. And it seems like

763
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 3: it sometimes take drastic and extreme measures for people to

764
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 3: realize this, whether it's a tearful request to be given privacy,

765
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 3: so being like please leave me alone. Y'all have done

766
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 3: so much you like, really harassed us, Please stop to

767
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 3: almost into endangering their lives and being put in these

768
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 3: situations that are so extreme that that's the final point

769
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 3: of like, hey, you almost killed us tonight, Please don't

770
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 3: do this.

771
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's that level of fan entitlement we've talked

772
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: about before where it's some it's kind of bizarre to me,

773
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: but it's like this idea that they owe us something.

774
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 2: Right, we put you here, right, and.

775
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,919
Speaker 1: It's sort of the price of your fame almost. It's

776
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: like you will you're rich and famous, so I get

777
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: to do whatever and I'll never forget. I saw this

778
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: interview with Jennifer Lawrence a couple of years ago, and

779
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: she was talking about visiting her family and she's like, well,

780
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: we had to put up all the you know, trash

781
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: bags of the windows. And I was like, wait what

782
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: She's like, oh, yeah, so we had to put up

783
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 1: every time I visit them, we put up trash bags

784
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: over the windows so they can't take pictures. She was

785
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: talking about like trying to explain that to the young

786
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: people and her family and just how bizarre, like that

787
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: sounds terrible to me, that sounds awful. We've also talked

788
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: about parasocial relationships a little bit before, and here we

789
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: can easily see how this can be good, can be

790
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: really great, or it can't be really really awful. And

791
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: as we said before, fans are powerful and deserve respect,

792
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: because yes, the power of fandom is no joke. You know,

793
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: we love some healthy fangirls over here, and they can

794
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: really really make things happen. That is or sure, the

795
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: Britney Stands are a force and we're able to keep

796
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 1: the conversation alive when so many people had written it

797
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: off around around Britney Spears and the conservatorship. But it

798
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: can also be a negative incidents where fans feel betrayed

799
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: by celebrity can be a real storm. Think of Hailey

800
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: Bieber after she and Justin got together, those who were

801
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: teams Lena have non stopped her, asked her for just

802
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: being with him. We've talked about that before, to the

803
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: point both she and Justin have repeatedly asked her fans

804
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: to stop and how it's been affecting them.

805
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 3: Both, right, And we've seen that in different celebrities, like

806
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 3: if they don't like the person you're with, they may

807
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 3: go after you. Of course, there's some conversations of like yeah,

808
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 3: but there's some that's like this is dangerous, this is

809
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 3: an unusual circumstance. We have questions kind of all of that,

810
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 3: but that I digress. I won't give any examples of that,

811
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 3: but but yeah, there's a lot when it comes to

812
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 3: all of these responsibilities and how we see celebrities in itself,

813
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 3: and especially when it comes to women, the expectations that

814
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 3: we hold, and it kind of makes you think, what

815
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 3: does the future hold? Is the future going to be

816
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 3: better for the next generation of stars and celebrities And yeah,

817
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 3: with the new mediums come new levels of stardom from

818
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 3: YouTube stars to TikTok stars, to whatever the next level

819
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:35,959
Speaker 3: may be.

820
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 2: Twitch.

821
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 3: I guess Twitch is already there. We are seeing a

822
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 3: whole different level of celebrity, and some experts have already

823
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 3: begun their studies in these types of celebrity. In an

824
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 3: Insider or article written by Rachel E. Greenspand, she talks

825
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 3: with psychologists and about the up and coming stars of

826
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 3: TikTok and the expectations. And in the article, greenspand rights

827
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 3: experts warned that these young influencers will face the typical

828
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 3: hurdles child fame, but with the additional complication of real

829
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 3: time social media surveillance by millions and an algorithmically programmed

830
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 3: addiction to the instant gratification of a never ending barrage

831
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 3: of notifications, which is my nightmare. I know those notifications

832
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 3: that go away.

833
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: I think I can figure this out for you, smath.

834
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 3: So we've already talked about the damages, how about early

835
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 3: childhood stardom and what that can cause? But add to

836
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 3: that the immediateness of social media, the total access provided

837
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: by the stars and by the fans, like they are

838
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 3: going to tell you immediately if they like or don't

839
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 3: like something.

840
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 1: Yep, and it's the Internet, so it doesn't go away, right,

841
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: And this new level of stardom has brought out a

842
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: new generation of hopefuls who are waiting for their time

843
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: to go viral. Greenspan continues. The algorithms that underlie practically

844
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: every social media service today force us to compete for visibility.

845
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: These teenagers may now feel themselves an extraordinary bind, competing

846
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: against each other and the newspeed algorith in order to

847
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: maintain visibility, a competition in which only the social media

848
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: services succeed. The concept of viral social media fame has

849
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: become so ingrained in our society that it's almost natural

850
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: for people to hope their next post will take off,

851
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: and some of the newly made celebrities have already learned

852
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 1: about the backlash of fame. Many under the cancel culture,

853
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: a narrative due to the extreme or impulsive natures of

854
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 1: their posts, have learned this lesson, have seen it, have

855
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: experienced it, but they are also learning how to handle it.

856
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: Greenspan continues. Many influencers have already, perhaps unintentionally, discovered what

857
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: experts say is the best way to protect oneself against

858
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: the dangers of fame by using influence to help the

859
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: world and raise awareness about causes you're passionate about. You're

860
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,919
Speaker 1: actually establishing a deeper sense of who you are as

861
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 1: a person.

862
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 3: Right, and I am interested to see what the statistics

863
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 3: will look like. We again did not talk about reality

864
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 3: stars and young stars, because there has been this conversation

865
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 3: about the sexualization of young girls in these videos as

866
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 3: well as infantalizing some of the girls who were no

867
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 3: longer young younger.

868
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 2: Jojo Sawa was one.

869
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 3: Of those who got criticisms on both ends when she

870
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 3: was growing up, but yet still kept the ponytail to

871
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 3: finally coming out and finding relationships and growing in ourselves

872
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 3: and being criticized for that. Like, it's just a whole

873
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 3: new level of stardom that we've never seen that is

874
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 3: produced again by the pressures of oftentimes family and society.

875
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 2: That part has seemingly not gone away.

876
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think the the Internet. I mean, we

877
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: talk about it all the time on here, and Bridgett

878
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: does such a great job of breaking it down. There's many,

879
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: many beautiful things about the Internet, but in a lot

880
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: of ways, like those comment sections can be just like

881
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: every toxic thing in our society amplified right, So we're

882
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: already getting as young girls all of these really harmful

883
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: messages about our body and how you should look and

884
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: how we should behave and then if you multiply that

885
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: by social media, I can only imagine being young and

886
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,280
Speaker 1: absorbing that and seeing that. Right.

887
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 3: You know, the double edged sword to this is we

888
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 3: have more body positive influencers and that's beautiful and I'd

889
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 3: love to see it. Half the time they're defending their

890
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 3: body and their videos because there's so many that still

891
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 3: continue to attack them and continue to really harass them.

892
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 3: So it feels kind of like, yes, this is great,

893
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:36,439
Speaker 3: but at the same time, oh my god, they still

894
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 3: have to keep going through all of this and still

895
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 3: have to be in this position to take this kind

896
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:41,720
Speaker 3: of abuse.

897
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 2: It's interesting. I'm interested in seeing how this goes.

898
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 3: I think what we really wanted to do about this

899
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 3: and I didn't get to it, Like the honest title

900
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,240
Speaker 3: was going to be the villainization of young teenage stars,

901
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 3: but we couldn't even find enough articles because there are

902
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 3: so many other things that seem to be traumatizing and

903
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 3: triggering for a lot of these celebrities that we haven't considered.

904
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 3: Of course, you know this goes into that like, well,

905
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 3: at least they have all of these basic necessities and

906
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 3: all of these things, and most of the people were

907
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 3: talking about our young white girls. Yeah, and that's unfortunate

908
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 3: because we don't even we have to go climb a

909
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 3: whole new level of toxicity when it comes to the

910
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 3: black young black girls who are going through so much

911
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 3: that they don't even get the chance to become that

912
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 3: half the time because of the racism that is so

913
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 3: staunch and so heavy here. So we know this is

914
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 3: that level of conversation, but there's a lot to consider

915
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 3: when we see what is happening, especially for myself as

916
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 3: a social worker who worked with young kids, seeing this

917
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 3: is such a problem in such a big way. But

918
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,240
Speaker 3: at the same time, you hope it changes, but historically

919
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 3: it doesn't seem to be.

920
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I think a part of this it

921
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: goes back to something you said earlier, Samantha's it's very

922
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: clear that we again as a society, view women as

923
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: expendable and we kind of their misery is our entertainment

924
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: and that's fine, and we feel very entitled as a society. Again,

925
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: I'm not speaking about Smith then, I but you know,

926
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 1: we as a society feel very entitled to cause harm,

927
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: to like really judge everything they do and then throw

928
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: them away when they experience any sort of trauma or

929
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 1: anything that doesn't fit in how we think they should

930
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: behave and how they should look.

931
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 3: Right.

932
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean that's that's up to like even

933
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: Harvey Winstein. Like the fact that went on so long, right,

934
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 1: that's pretty telling. Yeah. Yeah, so there is a lot

935
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 1: to there's a lot to un back here. Yes, yes,

936
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: there is. Well. Listeners as always, if there's anything you

937
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 1: want us to follow up on in here, if there

938
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: is resources, we haven't shut it out. If you have

939
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,439
Speaker 1: a favorite Mary Kate and Ashley movie, you can't let

940
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: us know.

941
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 2: Do you want to talk to me about musicals? I

942
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 2: don't think anyone does.

943
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: I think I don't think anyone read out about Mary

944
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 1: Kate Ashley. But you could prove us all or wrong. Listeners.

945
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: Our email is Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

946
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,240
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast

947
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: or on Instagram at Stefon'll Never hold You. Thanks as

948
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina, with bonus thanks this

949
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 1: week to researcher Joey and our executive producer Maya. It's

950
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 1: really badass group of guys.

951
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 2: Y'all are the heroes. Yes helped us with this so much.

952
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 2: Shout out.

953
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 1: Yes all the shout outs and thanks to you for listening.

954
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 1: Stuffner tell you protection of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts

955
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 1: from iHeart Radio, if you can visit the iHeart Radio app,

956
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or regul listen to your favorite shows.