Speaker 1: Well, it looks like we have a champion, and it's
Speaker 1: the Denver Nuggets. They have won twenty twenty three NBA
Speaker 1: title with a four to one series victory over the
Speaker 1: Miami Heat. We're gonna discuss the series, Yo kitch in
Speaker 1: the All Time Discussion and play any more with Washington
Speaker 1: Post Michael Lee on today's episode.
Speaker 2: I'm Miles Gray and I'm Jack O'Brien.
Speaker 1: And this is Miles Jack.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 4: I like that one.
Speaker 2: That was good.
Speaker 1: This is harmonic. I would say that intro.
Speaker 2: Exactly. That's how we goes three years and one.
Speaker 1: Davis got blue grow here you go and be driving spinning.
Speaker 2: Katie Curry a three.
Speaker 5: Steph Curry from the Child again.
Speaker 3: Be nice with the tell shut time what you got.
Speaker 1: Yes, Michael Lee from the Washington Post, thank you so much,
Speaker 1: Sports enterprise reporter based in Philly. You've been writing about
Speaker 1: the league for.
Speaker 2: Over twenty years. Now about your twenty years.
Speaker 3: Since two thousand and two.
Speaker 1: Okay, wow, call that over two decades. Welcome to the
Speaker 1: show Man. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for having me on. I'm glad you guys
Speaker 3: that sent the invite.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, of course, of course, of course, season's
Speaker 1: over though, it is it is we've arrived, that arrived
Speaker 1: at the end a little sad.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, as any season ending is.
Speaker 2: But I feel like the best team won.
Speaker 6: Like the team that was absolutely the best team from
Speaker 6: not just in this series, but probably the best team
Speaker 6: all season came out on top.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't I'm not as active on Twitter
Speaker 4: as I used to be.
Speaker 3: They used to be very active on Twitter.
Speaker 4: But I do remember like saying in February that Denver
Speaker 4: Youngis are the best team in the NBA, but nobody.
Speaker 3: Was willing to admit it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like nobody wants.
Speaker 3: To admit it, but they are the best team.
Speaker 4: And it wasn't just that, Like Jamal Murray was starting
Speaker 4: to find himself because you know, it takes a while
Speaker 4: to come back from that knee injury and gain trust
Speaker 4: in it and like so, but his production started to
Speaker 4: pick up. Yeah, look a little more like his old self.
Speaker 4: And Aaron Gordon was looking like a borderline All Star,
Speaker 4: like a little buzz that he could be the second
Speaker 4: Nugget to make it, and it was just like all
Speaker 4: these things were coming together. Obviously, Yolkic is playing amazing basketball,
Speaker 4: averaging almost a triple double, and it's just like, how
Speaker 4: was this team in first place? They got all these
Speaker 4: things coming together, everybody's ignoring them, you know, to talk
Speaker 4: about whatever drama that's going on, Like we got a
Speaker 4: good team here, like that we should probably be promoting
Speaker 4: as being really good. But but it was just it
Speaker 4: was kind of a messy period because that was obviously
Speaker 4: when we got Kendrick Perkins, you know, calling Yelkic a
Speaker 4: stat pattern and talking about the racial makeup of MVP
Speaker 4: voters and really taking the MVP conversation to a place
Speaker 4: it never should have gone, especially as it relates to Yolkic,
Speaker 4: you know, superstar production carrying mediocre rosters the last two years.
Speaker 4: Now he has like healthy teammates and there in the
Speaker 4: first there in first place, and he's doing like a
Speaker 4: miraculous thing. And I just felt like we were dumbing
Speaker 4: down the conversation when we should have been elevating. And
Speaker 4: it was embarrassing for me as a fan of basketball,
Speaker 4: and like I don't write about the NBA as much,
Speaker 4: but it was embarrassing to watch because as a fan
Speaker 4: of the game, I think we should sit back and
Speaker 4: just admire who these guys are and.
Speaker 3: What they're bringing and admire them for the error that
Speaker 3: they're in.
Speaker 4: You know, one thing that always bothers me, especially after
Speaker 4: the championship, is that we do lists and I'm.
Speaker 3: Sure you guys have a list.
Speaker 2: We list free, list free, and we and we.
Speaker 4: Compare guys and rank guys and do all these things
Speaker 4: that really just take it away from our ability to.
Speaker 3: Appreciate what we just saw.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like what we just saw from Jokic was an
Speaker 4: all time performance. I don't want to sit back and
Speaker 4: compare it to a chem Olaji want right.
Speaker 6: We we have typically resisted the conversations around like where
Speaker 6: does he fit?
Speaker 2: Like and super.
Speaker 6: Producer Jabbari almost got me with this this week. He
Speaker 6: was like, all right, this is the question. This is
Speaker 6: a conversation everyone's having. Is he on the top five
Speaker 6: centers list? And I took the bait. I wrote up
Speaker 6: a big thing. But I do feel deep down, no, no, no,
Speaker 6: I do feel deep down that like he's playing a
Speaker 6: different sport. This is a difference, like not necessarily different,
Speaker 6: but the game is so different.
Speaker 2: If you were like having.
Speaker 6: The conversation of like if he traveled into a time
Speaker 6: machine like we always talk about on this show that
Speaker 6: like basketball is progressive, and like the players build their
Speaker 6: games on top of the games of the players in
Speaker 6: the past. The shot making has gotten so much better,
Speaker 6: Like everything is just so much.
Speaker 2: Different than it was.
Speaker 6: The one place that I think we can compare great
Speaker 6: players to the past is their postgame celebrations, because that
Speaker 6: doesn't change.
Speaker 2: And Jokic gave.
Speaker 6: Us one of the most unique championship celebrations that I
Speaker 6: think we have ever seen. He celebrated begrudgingly, like he
Speaker 6: was told that this would be over when the game ended,
Speaker 6: and like this was overtime that he wasn't getting paid for.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious what you are feeling right now and
Speaker 1: if you're looking forward to a parade coming up.
Speaker 3: In Denver Menis Parade, MENI sparray Thursday.
Speaker 4: No, I need to go home, Okay.
Speaker 6: But I do think like he is such a unique
Speaker 6: personality that like just his whole thing where he like
Speaker 6: a lot of.
Speaker 2: It, just like begrudge, like.
Speaker 6: His body language, he's just like, yeah, I'm out there,
Speaker 6: I'm working and I'm giving you like one of the
Speaker 6: most beautiful games you've ever seen. But I don't know,
Speaker 6: like there's a lot of conversations about like Jimmy Butler
Speaker 6: is like Alpha, and like he seems to be doing
Speaker 6: it as much with his like personality as he's doing
Speaker 6: it with like what he physically does with his.
Speaker 2: Talent on the court. And I think that's true.
Speaker 6: Like I had that thought watching him in these playoffs,
Speaker 6: but like that is by no means a necessity, like clearly,
Speaker 6: because Jokic is just out there doing his thing without
Speaker 6: any any of the swagger the riz that as the
Speaker 6: kids call it.
Speaker 4: Uh yeah, yeah, I think that that's what the beautiful
Speaker 4: thing about him is and about all the great players
Speaker 4: that are kind of coming to this league, is that
Speaker 4: there is no comparison that makes sense, and that they
Speaker 4: there's always a mold that they born that can't be duplicated.
Speaker 4: It can't, you know, and their home space, you know,
Speaker 4: And like Joki is just such a unique talent in
Speaker 4: that you know, he has like a dad bot you know,
Speaker 4: he's not physically you know, he doesn't like he's imposing
Speaker 4: like Shack did.
Speaker 3: But he's so smart.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I think that one of the things I heard Isaiah
Speaker 4: Timas say on NBA t he was that he has
Speaker 4: an answer to the test. Yeah, so he's never out
Speaker 4: of the game because he he already knows the answers
Speaker 4: to the test.
Speaker 3: So it was funny to me, like during this playoff.
Speaker 4: Run, like they put ruie on him and at the
Speaker 4: end of Game one of the Western Finals, Lakers might
Speaker 4: have figured something out here, you know, they didn't like
Speaker 4: this is not the first time he's been guarded by
Speaker 4: a small guy, like it just they still lost the game,
Speaker 4: like he was just trying to win the game, like
Speaker 4: he was not.
Speaker 1: It was the first time, you say, first time the
Speaker 1: commentators saw him play. Basically they're like they figured this
Speaker 1: guy out, this jockeytch guy. They're like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And then it was like in the finals, it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: we're gonna make him into a score instead of a passer.
Speaker 4: You think he knows how to get the ball to
Speaker 4: his teammates even when you try to make him a score,
Speaker 4: like he's figured it. He's not, like it's not his
Speaker 4: third year in the league. This is your seven, Like
Speaker 4: he he's figured it out, like and he and he
Speaker 4: has the answers to the test, which you know, which
Speaker 4: makes it scary for theest going forward because you know
Speaker 4: a lot of people were like, well you know it's
Speaker 4: just him and Murray, you know, Gordon kind of played
Speaker 4: above his head, and like Michael Porter flamed out in
Speaker 4: the finals, and I'm like, well, I look at it
Speaker 4: this way. I don't see how Michael Porter doesn't come
Speaker 4: back better next year, right, I don't see how he doesn't.
Speaker 4: If he's healthy and he gets to go into an
Speaker 4: offseason healthy and just has to work on his game
Speaker 4: and not rehab, how are not gonna come back better?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: And I think if you look at the way the
Speaker 4: Nuggets have been building this team going forward, I give
Speaker 4: credit to like, you know, Tim Connolly and obviousy Calvin
Speaker 4: Booth right now, but just for.
Speaker 3: A vision that they had.
Speaker 4: And the other thing too, that I think gets overlooked
Speaker 4: too about the Nuggets and what made their run so
Speaker 4: special is look at the chemistry of that team. Look
Speaker 4: at how much those guys you could see the genuinely
Speaker 4: like being around each other.
Speaker 3: I remember going to one of their practices this year
Speaker 3: and like.
Speaker 4: They were just having so much fun, Like they were
Speaker 4: playing shooting games and everybody was having a good time.
Speaker 4: And like that's not because that's not a louke, Like
Speaker 4: that's just something that they intended to get a locker
Speaker 4: room of good guys. They intend to have locker room
Speaker 4: of veterans who can police locker room. I mean, you
Speaker 4: see DeAndre Jordan, you see it, Jeff Green, you see it.
Speaker 3: It's Smith.
Speaker 4: I always say that for championship team, you need spirit guys.
Speaker 4: And when I say spirit guys, I mean guys who
Speaker 4: elevate the room with their energy and with their spirit.
Speaker 4: Every team that you can find a champion, you have
Speaker 4: to have those guys, especially if you have you know,
Speaker 4: kind of quirky superstars, you know, right, Yeah, And like
Speaker 4: if you look at Steph in Golden State, and why
Speaker 4: has Golden State been on this amazing run Because not
Speaker 4: only is Stephan their best player, but he's their spirit guy.
Speaker 4: He's the guy that elevates the.
Speaker 3: Energy in the room and brings in yeah, that and.
Speaker 4: That, and like usually you don't get that from your
Speaker 4: star player, you know, you need it from somewhere else.
Speaker 3: But he brings that. He brought that.
Speaker 4: And that's why the Warriors have been, you know, great
Speaker 4: for this last decade is because Steph is not only
Speaker 4: their best player, but he's their spirit guy. Then the
Speaker 4: Nuggets have a bunch of spirit guys, it's Smith. Every
Speaker 4: he's been on fourteen teams or whatever, right, thirteen teams,
Speaker 4: it's been a bunch of teams. But everywhere he's been,
Speaker 4: everybody loves them. Everybody says he's a great guy. And like,
Speaker 4: you add that energy to a locker room. If somebody
Speaker 4: gets grumpy or somebody gets moody and you know, tries
Speaker 4: to break break it apart, the Vets ain't having it, Yeah,
Speaker 4: because you got the spirit guys policing that and adding
Speaker 4: that energy. And like they traded Bones Highland. Bones Island's
Speaker 4: a really talented player. Like I thought they got a
Speaker 4: stealing when they drafted him, but he was acting up.
Speaker 3: He wasn't happy with his role.
Speaker 4: He was expressing his discontent and they were like, you
Speaker 4: know what, as talented as he is, he's breaking up
Speaker 4: the vibe.
Speaker 3: We can't we.
Speaker 4: Can't move forward as a team that's about winning and
Speaker 4: about like, you know, having this positive force kind of
Speaker 4: pushing us to a title.
Speaker 3: With this guy over here. And they got rid of him.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they had a guy who's one of the best
Speaker 4: players off the bench in the league at the time.
Speaker 4: You know, you thought the Bones is a really good
Speaker 4: you know six man, seven man, whatever role he.
Speaker 3: Is, and they were like, yeah, you know what what
Speaker 3: is ride with Bruce Brown?
Speaker 4: See what he gives us. And then you see him
Speaker 4: in the finals, and Bruce Brown has given you that spirit.
Speaker 4: He's giving you that that high energy. And so I
Speaker 4: just I just love the way the Nuggets were built.
Speaker 4: And I can say this is I said, somebody's cover
Speaker 4: to leave for a long time. Mike Malone's first year.
Speaker 1: Uh with Michael Michel Michael, Michael.
Speaker 3: Give me because I am Michael.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactually uh.
Speaker 3: And we had my first conversation with him.
Speaker 4: I did it behind the scenes piece with the with
Speaker 4: him and the Nuggets coaching staff. And one of the
Speaker 4: first questions I asked him, I said, do you prefer
Speaker 4: to be Michael or Mike? He asked me, do I
Speaker 4: prefer to be Michael or Mike? He said, my mother
Speaker 4: always told me that she named me Michael and not Mike.
Speaker 4: If anybody calls me Mike, let them know that I'm Michael.
Speaker 4: And he said, my mother did the same thing with me.
Speaker 4: Everybody knows that I'm Michael, So forget.
Speaker 3: Me for saying that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fine, we.
Speaker 3: Are Michaels and we are unified, and our mothers telling.
Speaker 6: Us I make fun of him about it, and it's
Speaker 6: not it's not fair. It's just there's something about the
Speaker 6: name Mike Malone that wants to like my Like everybody
Speaker 6: just wants to call him Mike. I don't think it
Speaker 6: has anything to do with like disrespect or anything like that.
Speaker 6: I think it just has to do with that name.
Speaker 6: In particular. There is a Mike Malone shape. Yeah, there's
Speaker 6: a Mike Malone shaped like groove in the human brain
Speaker 6: that just people that it sticks and they're like, wait, what,
Speaker 6: like this middle syllable doesn't need to be there. But yeah,
Speaker 6: it's totally not fair to make fun of them for
Speaker 6: doing that.
Speaker 4: But the one thing that always stood out to me
Speaker 4: because I spent like three days with them and I
Speaker 4: sat in this is his first year there, right if
Speaker 4: you got fired by the Kings, and so I got
Speaker 4: to watch you know, film sessions, you know, pregame chats
Speaker 4: and postgame chats everything.
Speaker 3: So I was really embedded for a couple of days.
Speaker 4: And what stood out to me during that time even then,
Speaker 4: was that Jokic was really special. He was doing things
Speaker 4: in practice that I had just not seen like he
Speaker 4: always made the right play and for a rookie who
Speaker 4: was coming off the bench, you know, and there's this
Speaker 4: big battle with him and you know, you know Nurkic
Speaker 4: and like they're trying to figure out who the future
Speaker 4: is going to be and so but he but he
Speaker 4: just has like this ability to make the right play
Speaker 4: and it was just amazing to see it right then
Speaker 4: and right there. And and Mike Malone they were almost
Speaker 4: like a father son type relationship then. And like he
Speaker 4: spoke a little bit of English but just enough to pass.
Speaker 4: But like he came alone. They were always hanging out
Speaker 4: and they were always talking and joking and like like
Speaker 4: this is a kind of a unique thing.
Speaker 3: I didn't know. I didn't know was gonna be this.
Speaker 4: You got a pretty good player, but like just to
Speaker 4: see that connection between a coach and a rookie, you know,
Speaker 4: second round pick that you know, they didn't know that
Speaker 4: they got Nicola Jokic, They got the guy in the
Speaker 4: Taco bill, you know, ear.
Speaker 6: He got drafted in the A lot of people don't
Speaker 6: know his nickname, The Joker comes from him just being
Speaker 6: really funny.
Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with his last name. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well Mike Miller was there.
Speaker 4: They would they would do fun things like, you know,
Speaker 4: play with footballs and stuff and practice and stuff. And
Speaker 4: so at the end of practice one time, he and
Speaker 4: Mike Miller are throwing football in the hoop.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like competitively trying to throw the football in the hoop?
Speaker 6: Sorry, is that impressive to you? I can just do
Speaker 6: that really easily. So I just wasn't sure that's.
Speaker 1: Super over a mountain.
Speaker 4: But like, like Yoker just sitting there and like like
Speaker 4: he's hitting the back of the backboard and like trying
Speaker 4: to get it properly, and I.
Speaker 3: Think he got one to go in.
Speaker 4: It's like this, dude, It's like, like, how in the
Speaker 4: world is throwing a girl play a football?
Speaker 6: But he had a half court or I think full
Speaker 6: court shot in the in the finals, like at the
Speaker 6: end of you know, yeah that nobody even like made
Speaker 6: a big deal about.
Speaker 5: I was like, yeah, it was like just the least
Speaker 5: effort I've ever seen someone put into a full court
Speaker 5: shot and he front rimmed it, and everyone's like, yeah,
Speaker 5: well he's really good at basketball.
Speaker 4: Yeah here's some format that's like kind of adopted them
Speaker 4: as like their their guy. Yeah, Loane was bonding with him,
Speaker 4: and so like it's interesting to see like where it's
Speaker 4: all gone, and like you see the photo of the
Speaker 4: brothers like picking him up and him out. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: the one thing instead ut you know, in the conversation
Speaker 4: I had with Michael Malone was I was asking about
Speaker 4: like some of his coaching influences because his dad.
Speaker 3: Bring him alone, was a coach in the NBA, and.
Speaker 4: So if you look at his staff, there's a lot
Speaker 4: of like former sons.
Speaker 2: Of NBA babies is what we call him on this show.
Speaker 4: Man. There's Ryan Saunders, Like there's a lot of guys
Speaker 4: who've been around the game there in time.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the same way he's built yea. So he's
Speaker 4: built that staff that way. And and so I asked him,
Speaker 4: like who some of his influencers were, what they you know,
Speaker 4: and what he learned from them, and he said, he
Speaker 4: tell me about the conversation that he had with Greg
Speaker 4: Popovich and in the Sumier conversation that I have a
Speaker 4: great Apovich. I remember asking Greg Papovich once what loyalty
Speaker 4: means to him, for the fact that like at the
Speaker 4: time he had Duncan Genobli and Parker and like these
Speaker 4: great guys who just dedicated themselves to the Spurs and
Speaker 4: like winning championships for the Spurs and never really got
Speaker 4: caught up and blirting.
Speaker 3: With other places.
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously Duncan thought about the Magic for a second,
Speaker 4: but he stayed and he won, and he told me
Speaker 4: about what loyalty meant to him.
Speaker 3: And what Malone told me was.
Speaker 4: That Papovich said that if you're a coach, you have
Speaker 4: to make sure that your players know that you love them.
Speaker 4: Because if they feel that you love them and that
Speaker 4: you care for them, you can coach them as hard
Speaker 4: as you need to because they know what's coming from
Speaker 4: a good place.
Speaker 3: They know that you're not.
Speaker 4: You know, like if you bench them, or if you
Speaker 4: know or you take them out of a game because
Speaker 4: they're playing poorly, it's not because they have a personal
Speaker 4: vendetta against you.
Speaker 3: It's because it's not performing fault you to And so
Speaker 3: his goal.
Speaker 4: Was to build sincere relationship with his players, and you
Speaker 4: can see it in how they play.
Speaker 1: That's the real wisdom that you get right from Popovich.
Speaker 1: He he told you you have to become Papa in
Speaker 1: this way, you know, for then then they have this
Speaker 1: new relationship.
Speaker 6: All right, let's take a quick break. Well, we'll come
Speaker 6: right back. We'll keep talking about the finals. We'll talk
Speaker 6: about some amazing landmarks that we saw Jokic and Murray hit.
Speaker 6: Will be right back, and we're back.
Speaker 1: We're back.
Speaker 6: And I just have to say this one stat that
Speaker 6: like stopped us all in our tracks that Jabari superroducer
Speaker 6: Jabari shared with us. Jokic became the first player to
Speaker 6: lead all players in the playoffs in point three rebounds
Speaker 6: and assists in a single postseason.
Speaker 1: That's unbelievable.
Speaker 3: That's like unreal.
Speaker 1: For everything that we talk about, right, like of the
Speaker 1: comparisons and things like for people who want to compare
Speaker 1: to the past, I'm like, who has this stat?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: And I guess like in a way that doesn't really
Speaker 1: serve anyone, but I think again underscores just how unique
Speaker 1: of a time this is, too, like, and especially how
Speaker 1: the two of between him and Jamal Murray, you know what,
Speaker 1: they're like the first players to have record triple doubles
Speaker 1: together in a finals game.
Speaker 4: They're also the first teammates to average twenty five to
Speaker 4: five and five during a playoff run.
Speaker 6: Right, Murray, there are four players who have averaged twenty
Speaker 6: points in tennis in the finals. They are Magic Johnson
Speaker 6: who did in eighty seven, eighty eight, Michael Jordan, who
Speaker 6: you might remember played for the Chicago Bulls in the
Speaker 6: year nineteen ninety one when they won the title, right,
Speaker 6: Mike George probably familiar with him as Mike Lebron twenty seventeen,
Speaker 6: twenty eighteen, and then Jamal Murray this year.
Speaker 2: That's it. That's everybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like just thinking about all this, right, because we've
Speaker 1: talked about on the show how much you get into
Speaker 1: like the debate culture side of talking about the NBA,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people, especially a lot of the
Speaker 1: sports journalists we have come on and like they were
Speaker 1: not were missing the point here. Like for the people
Speaker 1: who are like the stat watchers, they look at something
Speaker 1: like this and then what do they say to dismiss
Speaker 1: Jamal Murray or dismiss Jokic. Is it just to be
Speaker 1: like just like, yeah, yeah, he had he had a
Speaker 1: good run right there, and then it ends there like Jack.
Speaker 6: Wie, I don't know what they're gonna say. I don't
Speaker 6: think they can say much after this.
Speaker 4: Well, I guess they'll just say, like, you know, he
Speaker 4: was up and down, you know, after a thirty point game,
Speaker 4: he didn't have twenty again. Find something different, Jamal Murray.
Speaker 4: That always struck me as like something that I was
Speaker 4: I was hoping that they would talk about more during
Speaker 4: the broadcast, was just what a grinder he is and
Speaker 4: just how much he worked so hard to to get
Speaker 4: to where he is, like just relentless, like his dad
Speaker 4: was basically run a torture chamber with him, you know,
Speaker 4: to get him to become this great basketball player.
Speaker 3: And it never let work.
Speaker 4: Ethic never left him, Like they had to lock him
Speaker 4: out of the gym a lot, because he just wanted
Speaker 4: to work all the time. He just wanted to get better.
Speaker 4: And like for him to be without the game for
Speaker 4: two years, like that had to drive him insane, Like
Speaker 4: the tears he shed right after they won the championship,
Speaker 4: Like I felt all of that because I know, like
Speaker 4: that guy loves basketball like that is his life, Like
Speaker 4: he is given his all to this to be where
Speaker 4: he is.
Speaker 3: And like obviously he was a lottery pick.
Speaker 4: The makeup of the Nuggets, you know, it was kind
Speaker 4: of these overlooked guys, you know, second round picks, you know,
Speaker 4: late late lottery picks, but he was a lottery pick.
Speaker 4: But he comes in with like that underdog mentality, Like
Speaker 4: he's got an underdog mentality because he's coming from Canada
Speaker 4: and he obviously felt he was overlooked coming out of
Speaker 4: Canada because he felt like he was better than a
Speaker 4: lot of the American players that he was that were
Speaker 4: in his draft, that were in his class, you know,
Speaker 4: college recruiting class. And so he went to Kentucky and everything,
Speaker 4: and you know, I didn't see this type of player
Speaker 4: at Kentucky, which we got to really get at a Calipari.
Speaker 2: Because you never do.
Speaker 6: I think this is a point that I've made a
Speaker 6: couple of times. You really need to, like, we need
Speaker 6: to be drafted. If you if your draft board has
Speaker 6: a UK player on it, just move them up five
Speaker 6: spots because they're they are better than you think. Let's
Speaker 6: just they're they're always going to be better than you think.
Speaker 4: Almost always, like people are like, wait, Anthony Davis actually
Speaker 4: has an offensive game.
Speaker 2: Wow, especially if it's a wing or a perimeter player.
Speaker 6: Like, because I feel like they don't I don't know,
Speaker 6: the Kentucky teams just don't like have like they don't
Speaker 6: take advantage of these people who are just the most
Speaker 6: incredible shot makers in the league now, Like ye, we
Speaker 6: got Maxie, we got Murray, we got Booker, like all
Speaker 6: of them, all of them underdrafted hero.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker 4: Of talent to come away with one national title, Like
Speaker 4: and I know the young and you got to get
Speaker 4: the chemistry right, but gosh, man, like you can't have
Speaker 4: all of this talent and just coming with one, like
Speaker 4: you got to have at least two.
Speaker 6: College basketball is so weird, man, watching how good Chet
Speaker 6: was when he got into that summer league after like
Speaker 6: what he looked like in the n c DOUAA tournament
Speaker 6: was so I was like, why how were they hiding this?
Speaker 6: Like why were they hiding this?
Speaker 4: So I get mad whenever people send me they like
Speaker 4: the college game more than a pro game, Like what.
Speaker 3: Are you really telling me? Like you're you're telling.
Speaker 4: Me you don't like the best players performing at the
Speaker 4: at the highest level like.
Speaker 3: A high school game.
Speaker 4: Let's go to a high school game and see you know,
Speaker 4: them playing for the love of the game, because most
Speaker 4: of these guys will never play again beyond this point.
Speaker 3: Like are you telling me this is better than the NBA?
Speaker 3: Because it's not like.
Speaker 6: That's why I stopped playing after high school. It was
Speaker 6: when I thought the game was at the most pure.
Speaker 6: I could have played in college, probably bro, but I
Speaker 6: was like, I don't like the it's just too much
Speaker 6: about you know, the rankings and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: It's it's not pure anymore. People don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean my stats, my status of high school
Speaker 1: were amazing. I mean I blame the fact that I
Speaker 1: also graduated in two thousand and three with lebron so
Speaker 1: a lot of my fatus I had them. I had
Speaker 1: the most travels in southern California.
Speaker 2: That's pretty good.
Speaker 1: That's pretty good. That's worth shows your mobility. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: been benched more than any other player. But one thing,
Speaker 1: one person I do want to just put my eye on,
Speaker 1: just just a quick shout out, maybe of jealousy, is
Speaker 1: Chris Brown. At twenty two years old.
Speaker 2: This man pronoun brown brown? Yeah, you need a pronunciation
Speaker 2: guy with that, We're just like, look.
Speaker 1: At Kansas exactly. Uh he had three high school I
Speaker 1: think was it three straight championships in high school and
Speaker 1: then NCAA title with Kansas and now an NBA champion
Speaker 1: as a rookie. I'm like, how did you just like
Speaker 1: humble into such fantastic fortune. But like he's the fifth
Speaker 1: player to win the NCAA and NBA title in back
Speaker 1: to back seasons. That puts him in the class with
Speaker 1: Bill Russell, Henry Bibby, Magic, Billy Thompson, and now.
Speaker 3: Chris That's it's pretty impressive.
Speaker 1: I'm always like blown away when you see like athletes
Speaker 1: like that in any sport, where like they'll do the thing.
Speaker 1: We're like, they went with this team and then they
Speaker 1: got traded and then they won it the next year again,
Speaker 1: and you're like, good for you. What a I mean,
Speaker 1: Like Chris Brown, I'm glad that you've had such a
Speaker 1: just turbulent free rise to the top. You're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: just I can't stop winning. I'm a serial winner.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope, I hope you.
Speaker 4: I hope you appreciates it because you know, this is
Speaker 4: not a given that you're gonna win at this level.
Speaker 3: Then the guys your name obviously want.
Speaker 1: To love.
Speaker 3: Russell, but I mean, it's just it's hard to win
Speaker 3: in this league.
Speaker 4: And that that's why I appreciate like what the Nuggets
Speaker 4: are done in terms of having the patience to see
Speaker 4: you know what Michael Malone was building and to see
Speaker 4: you know, Yolkic regain his form and to have the
Speaker 4: patience would your Maul Murray to help him come back
Speaker 4: from his knee injury and just help them regain his
Speaker 4: confidence in itself and become that player.
Speaker 3: And you know, you don't see that happen in the NBA.
Speaker 4: You know, everybody wants it right now and they're not
Speaker 4: willing to see guys enter their prime together and see
Speaker 4: what happens.
Speaker 3: It's just like, well, he's not really looking the way
Speaker 3: we thought, so we got to move on from him
Speaker 3: and then or we don't want to pay him, or but.
Speaker 6: This is another another homegrown title, right like the you
Speaker 6: know it was them, then Golden State, then Milwaukee all
Speaker 6: you know that they're not you know Milwaukee, it's not
Speaker 6: like they drafted all their Big three, but like it's
Speaker 6: their their best player was drafted by them and they
Speaker 6: built out in around them.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's the one thing that stands out to
Speaker 4: me is that three of the last five finals MVPs
Speaker 4: were drafted outside of the lot of room.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody knows anything.
Speaker 4: That's everybody's everybody's tanking. Everybody is trying to intentionally lose.
Speaker 4: For guys, they think you're going to be stars, and
Speaker 4: then the thing can stand up to me and I hope,
Speaker 4: I hope Victor Woman Yama can break it. You know,
Speaker 4: do you guys know how many number one picks have
Speaker 4: won a championship for the original organization since nineteen ninety No,
Speaker 4: take a guess how many number one picks have won
Speaker 4: a championship for the original organization?
Speaker 2: Well, you got Tim Duncan. That's step is that is
Speaker 2: that it?
Speaker 3: Well there's Kyrie.
Speaker 2: Kyrie, that's right.
Speaker 3: But he only won because the previous number one.
Speaker 2: Pick came back, That's right.
Speaker 4: So Lebron came back, you know, after winning titles in
Speaker 4: Miami to win in Cleveland.
Speaker 3: So here Lebron three in Periator three.
Speaker 4: So Lebron, he didn't stay there the whole way through
Speaker 4: and win and then just stay he won and then
Speaker 4: came back and won. Yeah, like so really it's it's
Speaker 4: two or three however you want to do the numbers,
Speaker 4: but it just it just shows that how how.
Speaker 3: How much luck plays a role in this, you know, right?
Speaker 4: And and you know I I have that conversation with
Speaker 4: Tim Connolly about you know, jolkics and just you know,
Speaker 4: him becoming this superstar player. And he would tell me
Speaker 4: all the time just how lucky they were, Like they
Speaker 4: were lucky for him to become this guy, right because
Speaker 4: you know, they knew he had the ability oosity because
Speaker 4: they drafted him. They had faith in him, but it
Speaker 4: wasn't like he was their top choice. Then they drafted
Speaker 4: three guys before they took him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he and he's the guy that now is
Speaker 3: people saying it's the best player in basketball.
Speaker 4: And it's the same thing with Giannis Janis went fifteen, Yeah,
Speaker 4: and you know he's the best player in basketball.
Speaker 6: And he had the hype at the time Jannis that
Speaker 6: like this guy could be something special, but he's like
Speaker 6: a huge project. It's going to take a lot of
Speaker 6: time right where it was just like they realized he
Speaker 6: was one of the best players in the league when
Speaker 6: he like five games into him being one of the
Speaker 6: best players in the league, they were like, oh, wait,
Speaker 6: wait a second, this guy's yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it is about luck. But you know
Speaker 1: who's gonna need luck. In our next segment, oh of
Speaker 1: the Washington Post, because when we come back, it's time
Speaker 1: for the rapid fire round of questioning the most unique
Speaker 1: segment in podcasting. We'll be back with that right after this.
Speaker 1: And we're back Michael Lee. Get ready because you have
Speaker 1: stumbled into the hot seat. It's time for the rapid
Speaker 1: fire round of questioning. Now, this segment is the fastest
Speaker 1: question and answer segment in all of podcasting history. Jack
Speaker 1: or I, We're gonna chest pass you a question now.
Speaker 1: It's like a hot potato. Don't think about the question,
Speaker 1: just hit us right back with your answer. Don't expand
Speaker 1: upon the answers. And if you keep this segment going
Speaker 1: too long, we will cut you off. And if we
Speaker 1: start talking too long, you have to cut us off
Speaker 1: because we have have to maintain our status as the
Speaker 1: fastest question answer.
Speaker 4: Well, see this is why I was bad at baseball,
Speaker 4: that I have bad reflexes.
Speaker 2: Well let's try.
Speaker 1: Let's try.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, should I hit this right too? Okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you're you're swinging on it as the as
Speaker 1: the catcher is throwing it back to the picture. You
Speaker 1: can't swing on that, oh man. All right, So here
Speaker 1: we go. We're getting into it rapid fire round and questioning.
Speaker 2: Brian start the clock. Brian's crying just for the listener.
Speaker 2: That's fine, that's fine, that's fine.
Speaker 1: It's an intense segment, you know, but Brian knows I
Speaker 1: love him like a son and I am his papa.
Speaker 2: That's why I hard on him.
Speaker 1: I learned that from a great man.
Speaker 3: Jack.
Speaker 1: You want to go first, I go first.
Speaker 2: Sure, I'll go first.
Speaker 3: How about Okay?
Speaker 2: See how about that, Michael Lee?
Speaker 6: Is there a single NBA player you would take right
Speaker 6: now over the chance of taking WEMBM.
Speaker 2: You are the Spurs.
Speaker 6: You've gotten the call from everybody in the league saying
Speaker 6: why ah.
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 1: I like that he's locked in. He's locked in.
Speaker 4: I'm excited about the possibilities, and I'd rather take a
Speaker 4: chance on him than.
Speaker 3: That somebody established. Okay, it doesn't work out, it's a
Speaker 3: dance that that I that I failed that, But if
Speaker 3: it does.
Speaker 1: Then yeah, yeah to the top.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: You also couldn't do it because, like everybody, your fan
Speaker 6: base would be so mad at you.
Speaker 4: It's like it's like the Sixers trading Brad Doherty when
Speaker 4: they had Charles Barkley, Like they wonder why he's in
Speaker 4: Phoenix because you you you should have taken the best
Speaker 4: center and paired them with Barkley.
Speaker 3: And try to see like the.
Speaker 4: Cleven Tavaliers, like they weren't the greatest team, but they
Speaker 4: were pretty good.
Speaker 3: You know, Jordan's hitting those shots. You know they were
Speaker 3: the underdog in those series. So yeah, but if.
Speaker 4: You have if you have Brad Dougherty and Charles Barkley,
Speaker 4: it's you. Look, you probably got a couple of rings,
Speaker 4: probably standing away with Jordan or.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Michael, Now I got to ask you a
Speaker 1: question because we got to keep this moving. But this
Speaker 1: is one important because you've got your eye on the league.
Speaker 1: Now we're going to be talking about teams you want
Speaker 1: to cover in the off season. You know, who's who's
Speaker 1: making some moves, who's interesting? Who do we illuminate spurs Ovi? Now,
Speaker 1: what's the team that you're also expecting big things from
Speaker 1: someone we should also keep our eye on the postseason.
Speaker 1: Don't sleep on them.
Speaker 3: Portland do it? Trade Dame, do it?
Speaker 6: Portland, do it trade, Dame, do it now.
Speaker 4: Don't even waste anybody's song. Like he's given you twelve
Speaker 4: years or eleven years. He's had enough time sitting on
Speaker 4: that throne. And uh, you have a Western Conference final
Speaker 4: strip for it, and it's great.
Speaker 3: You shake his hand.
Speaker 4: You admire him, call him the greatest plazer ever, but
Speaker 4: give him a chance to win, and give you a
Speaker 4: chance to move forward tos a franchise trying to win
Speaker 4: with him. You're not going to compete with the JAP
Speaker 4: teams in the West, no matter what. You try to
Speaker 4: trade the number three pick for. Trade him, get some pieces,
Speaker 4: go forward draft Scoop, and then try to try to
Speaker 4: see where you can go the next ten years. I
Speaker 4: feel like, you know, and I'm not somebody who's against
Speaker 4: loyalty or somebody who thinks that you shouldn't stay committed
Speaker 4: to it to guys, but you know, right now their
Speaker 4: partnership is going nowhere, and I think it's best for
Speaker 4: both of them to just move on and and and
Speaker 4: and Dame will be happier because especially if he's traded
Speaker 4: to a place like Miami, where he'll still be the
Speaker 4: man and he'll still get you know, praise and as
Speaker 4: that sort of the guy who could push them over
Speaker 4: the hump.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 4: I say, do it, and and don't worry about what
Speaker 4: you're get in return, because that doesn't matter. You just
Speaker 4: gotta you gotta go in a different direction.
Speaker 3: You traded.
Speaker 6: Is anyone is anyone talking about Phoenix as a potential destination.
Speaker 6: Like they get Chris Paul to come in and be
Speaker 6: the guy who is the tutor, the veteran tutor for scoop.
Speaker 3: You said Chris Paul as a tutor, don't. I don't
Speaker 3: see that happening.
Speaker 4: Like Chris Paul is still a competitive guy who wants
Speaker 4: to win championships. He ain't the big brother trying to teach,
Speaker 4: you know, guys, you know, he's he's trying to win.
Speaker 4: And and I don't I don't see him playing that role.
Speaker 4: He's somebody that needs to go somewhere where he can
Speaker 4: win too. And I don't know what Phoenix is gonna do. Man,
Speaker 4: It's just they just got he got a messy roster.
Speaker 4: Like the only thing I think they could do is
Speaker 4: what they did, and that's hired you know Vogel as
Speaker 4: as a coach. You know, I think that if Vogel
Speaker 4: can get something out of eighten, that's that's that could
Speaker 4: elevate their ceiling, you know. And you know, and people say,
Speaker 4: you know, Vocal wasn't a good higher I'm like, well,
Speaker 4: I happen to recall a guy named Roy.
Speaker 3: Hibbert who became an all star plan for Frank Vogel.
Speaker 4: Right, and we haven't seen him since, right, but he was,
Speaker 4: he was, he was considered, you know, an elite big
Speaker 4: man for a long time planning for Frank Vogel and
Speaker 4: what were eighties best years with the Lakers?
Speaker 3: Who was the coach?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I'm avo give a.
Speaker 4: Chance to see what he can do with him if he,
Speaker 4: you know, gets on Booker's nerves or these nerves because
Speaker 4: he's not playing.
Speaker 3: Hard and ship them.
Speaker 4: Like, I think that you have a guy who can
Speaker 4: get you eighteen and twelve and maybe he can give
Speaker 4: you more, but he's he's also got to be somebody
Speaker 4: who has the support of the coach.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Michael, what is your favorite NBA city to visit
Speaker 6: and what's your must have meal in that town?
Speaker 4: It changes so much, you know, I had like a
Speaker 4: top five, but I'll just say.
Speaker 2: Give us one we wouldn't expect underrated good.
Speaker 3: I mean, New York is obviously the one I used.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, New York.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I actually get excited about Boston.
Speaker 6: Favorite meal in Boston go to Legal Seafood and get
Speaker 6: a lobster.
Speaker 2: Okay, I like that.
Speaker 4: I like that, But you know, you know, underrated city,
Speaker 4: very underrated city restaurants in total cool like late night
Speaker 4: kind of like jazzy bars kind stuff. San Antonio Man, Yeah,
Speaker 4: san Antonio has a lot going on. Go to a
Speaker 4: great steakhouse or go to a great barbecue restaurant.
Speaker 1: Michael Lee, I got to ask you a serious question now, okay,
Speaker 1: because we got to keep this. You know, we're sorry,
Speaker 1: we're putting it all on the line right now. We're
Speaker 1: putting it all on the line, Michael. But this is
Speaker 1: this next question is a very hot button issue. Jalen
Speaker 1: roses hair.
Speaker 3: Well, oh that's a question for a statement. It's a
Speaker 3: work of art.
Speaker 1: Okay, just take it where you want to go. It's
Speaker 1: like I'm throwing it up. I'm just seeing what you
Speaker 1: do with it.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 4: Like this barber needs to go into like he needs
Speaker 4: to teach others.
Speaker 3: I want him to work with me. I want him
Speaker 3: to give me that line.
Speaker 4: And get me all of that stuff that Jalen got
Speaker 4: going on because Jaalen, I remember, you know, had the
Speaker 4: shaved head.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Now I'm looking at him and he's got like he's
Speaker 4: got the hair like it's it's it's barber, barber is excellent,
Speaker 4: like that.
Speaker 3: There's nobody with a better hairline, I mean, or line
Speaker 3: up than him like he's Yeah, it's a work of art.
Speaker 1: It's one of the best, truly, all right.
Speaker 6: And finally the question that we've all been waiting for,
Speaker 6: Michael Lee, Jack or Miles.
Speaker 3: Oh between you two? Mm hm oh yeah both y'all
Speaker 3: both got love? Man, I ain't thinking.
Speaker 2: Who has more? Who has more love? Yeah, if you had.
Speaker 1: To, if you got the measuring tape game.
Speaker 2: It's the trolley experiment he taking.
Speaker 3: Man. I can't. I can't do that.
Speaker 2: Man, all right.
Speaker 4: I just met you guys, and I enjoyed the conversation.
Speaker 4: I don't want to kissed off at the end.
Speaker 2: We love that. We There you have it.
Speaker 1: Michael Lee of the Washington Post is a humanist and
Speaker 1: someone with a kind heart who will not choose between
Speaker 1: all of his creatures. Michael Lee, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us on. Miles and Jack got mad boost ties.
Speaker 1: Where can people find you? Follow you, support you, read
Speaker 1: you do all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4: Well, you obviously can find me at the Washington Post.
Speaker 4: You're gonna find me on Twitter at mister Michael Lee.
Speaker 4: And uh and yeah, you know I don't cover to
Speaker 4: the NBA full time anymore. I'm a sports inger, prize writer,
Speaker 4: you know, and I deal with issues of race, sport,
Speaker 4: and society, so I do a lot of different things
Speaker 4: with every now and then they called me back in
Speaker 4: to do some NBA stuff because I still have love
Speaker 4: for the game and I feel like I still have
Speaker 4: a little expertise in it. But yeah, it's it's tough.
Speaker 4: It's tough when I'm not around and talking to exects as.
Speaker 3: Much as I used to.
Speaker 4: But I still feel like I know the game good
Speaker 4: enough to make comments on Twitter that don't sound too stupid.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, well, you just boned up on your NBA bona
Speaker 6: fides by talking to two of the great minds in
Speaker 6: NBA media, Miles and Jack.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: You guys, maybe you can rub me.
Speaker 1: Yes right, Well, make sure you give us a follow
Speaker 1: on Twitter. You can find me at Miles of Gray.
Speaker 2: Where do they.
Speaker 6: Find me at Jack Underscore O'Brien, Yeah, and a hit.
Speaker 1: Up hashtag Matt Boosties for show links and updates because
Speaker 1: we'll be posting stuff there, asking questions and shout out
Speaker 1: to this week's listener. Please rate and review the podcast
Speaker 1: Gross negligent left this five star review that said, I've
Speaker 1: been a huge Miles and Jack fans in season two
Speaker 1: of The Daily Zeitgeist. Wow having politics content for mental
Speaker 1: health reasons. I'm so happy to get to experience their
Speaker 1: hilarious lived in chemistry focused on basketball. There as knowledgeable
Speaker 1: as any other sports podcast who wrote me while being
Speaker 1: funnier and more relatable than all of them? Oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for these wonderful reviews. Please make
Speaker 1: sure you leave them too, because we read them and
Speaker 1: we cry over them.
Speaker 6: When Jabari did write that and he only gave us
Speaker 6: two stars, yeah, that's how you know.
Speaker 1: It doesn't match though, But that is going to do
Speaker 1: it for us. This week on Miles and Jack Got
Speaker 1: Mad Boosties, Lee's check back in with us next week
Speaker 1: as we take our journey into the in between times,
Speaker 1: the silly season, as it were, the upcoming Everything's trade
Speaker 1: machine that we.
Speaker 3: Don't know how to work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll have to find out. Listen to that and
Speaker 1: many other wild speculations only on Miles and Jack Got
Speaker 1: Mad Boosts. All right, we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2: Bye bye,