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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or showed us an email at trust Me pod at

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Speaker 1: gmail dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust me.

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Speaker 3: Trust Me. I'm like a swat person. I've never lived.

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Speaker 3: To you, I've never had a live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to trust to Me. The podcast about cult

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Speaker 2: extreme belief manipulation from two Internet girlies who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 2: I'm Li Lablanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth. And today our

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Speaker 2: guest is a woman who we're gonna call Nora, and

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Speaker 2: she's going to talk to us about a Facebook group

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Speaker 2: for women in Los Angeles called Girls' Night Out that

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Speaker 2: ended up getting quite culty. We'll talk about why it

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Speaker 2: was exciting in the beginning to connect with other women

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Speaker 2: in a new way. Megan and I were both in it,

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Speaker 2: so we were there. How other sub groups began to form,

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Speaker 2: including one secret exclusive one that we were not in.

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Speaker 2: And how the main admin who were calling Vivian seemed

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Speaker 2: to be creating a space that prioritized social justice, equality

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Speaker 2: and helping other people.

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Speaker 1: At first, Noura is going to tell us how the

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Speaker 1: culture of the secret smaller group Girls' Night In began

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Speaker 1: to change, becoming a place where it was considered normal

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Speaker 1: and even cool to post nudes into the group, send

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Speaker 1: them to other people's boyfriends, and attack anyone who deviated

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Speaker 1: from Vivian's ideas about what was good or bad. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about the red flags that slowly popped up along

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Speaker 1: the way, the controversies that made Nora begin to question,

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Speaker 1: and how the group finally collapsed.

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Speaker 2: And obviously this week has been very heavy in the

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Speaker 2: world and there is a lot of grief happening. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of ongoing trauma happening, and I do want

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Speaker 2: to address that, but I'm going to talk about that

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Speaker 2: probably next week because this is just a lighter episode

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Speaker 2: and doesn't feel like the right fit. So before we

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Speaker 2: get into it with Nora, Megan, what is your cultiest

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Speaker 2: thing this week?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to keep it slumber party vibes this

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Speaker 1: week with my cultiest thing as well, there's a show

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Speaker 1: called Secret Lives of Mormon Wives that's becoming very popular.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I've really taken away from it

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Speaker 1: is that these women are pouring like diet coke with

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Speaker 1: creamer to kind of create their own version of coffee.

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Speaker 1: And it actually, I'm a diet coke obsessed fanatic. It

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Speaker 1: actually looks kind of great.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that sounds delicious. Not gonna lie As a yeah,

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Speaker 2: diet coke fan, and as a cream fan, I like,

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Speaker 2: I want to drink this. I haven't watched the show yet,

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Speaker 2: but I was very into that TikTok drama. So I've heard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and former Mormon, can you just tell us a

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Speaker 1: little bit why you can't drink coffee, but why you

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Speaker 1: could drink diet coke.

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Speaker 2: We weren't supposed to drink soda growing up. That's newer,

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Speaker 2: so Joseph Smith. I believe in the beginning, alleged some

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Speaker 2: scripture somewhere said no strong drink, so no coffee, no tea,

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Speaker 2: and you know that was extrapolated upon to include caffeinated

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Speaker 2: beveragest you. But people have relaxed a bit about that

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Speaker 2: in recent right.

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Speaker 1: There's still much They're still not going to go full coffee,

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Speaker 1: but a diet coke with some cream is fine, and

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Speaker 1: just watching them mix it all up, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: just so, it looks so good. So anyway I might

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Speaker 1: do it, I might not to be determined. What about you,

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Speaker 1: what's the lightest yet cultiest thing that's happened to you

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Speaker 1: this week?

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Speaker 2: Okay, it's not exactly light, but oh but it is

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Speaker 2: just kind of an update, which is about I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to get into the details because the details are

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Speaker 2: pretty harrowing, but my mother testified in court finally, I believe,

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Speaker 2: last week about this new self proclaimed prophet in the

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Speaker 2: FLDS community who named Sam Bateman, who committed some horrific uh,

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Speaker 2: you guys can read about it. I'm not even going

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Speaker 2: to go into it. But there were children involved, there

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Speaker 2: were families involved, and my mom she was finally able

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Speaker 2: to testify about her role in taking him down, which

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Speaker 2: is she started recording him and basically like brought it

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Speaker 2: to the authorities who said they needed more evidence, so

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Speaker 2: my mom went undercover. I think we'll be hearing a

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Speaker 2: lot more about how this actually transpired. But my mom

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Speaker 2: took on this extremely risky endeavor in this group that

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Speaker 2: was making threats on their enemies and did it of

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Speaker 2: her own accord. You know, she has some conspiracy theorists

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Speaker 2: who believe some made up thing, but it's all documented now.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, if you guys want to read about it,

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Speaker 2: there's an article on courthousenews dot com called Arizona men

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Speaker 2: found guilty of aiding religious child sex abuse ring and

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Speaker 2: you can read about my mom's role in taking that

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Speaker 2: predator down. So that's my update.

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Speaker 1: Your mom is an icon, She's everything. I love her

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Speaker 1: so much. And wow, yeah, that definitely wasn't a slumber party,

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Speaker 1: but also needed to know it, and I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I'm just kind of trying to tie the two together.

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Speaker 2: Listen, it's not a slumber party vibe, but listen, an

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Speaker 2: undercover woman taking down a bad guy. That's kind of

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Speaker 2: slumber party.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of slumber party. I think you know both

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Speaker 1: can be true nuance.

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Speaker 2: Okay, God, sorry, it's news.

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Speaker 4: It is no No. I love your cultiust thing. I

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Speaker 4: love your cultiust thing.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 4: Shall we start talking to Nora.

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Speaker 2: Let's do it. Welcome Nora. Quotation marks Nora to trust me.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being here, because this is

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Speaker 2: something Megan and I have both been very curious about

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Speaker 2: for a very long time. We are going to talk

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Speaker 2: about a Facebook group that we were all in and

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Speaker 2: nine not to the extent that others were. Shall we say,

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Speaker 2: can you please explain to us what the group Girls'

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Speaker 2: Night Out was?

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Speaker 3: Girls' Night Out. Girls' Night Out was a quote unquote private,

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Speaker 3: secret Facebook group based out of Los Angeles for women only,

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Speaker 3: and it started off mainly as just a networking group,

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Speaker 3: a social event group just for women in LA. And

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Speaker 3: there were about twenty thousand members when I joined, so

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Speaker 3: it was you know, if you bump into anyone in public,

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Speaker 3: chances are every other girl is that group. You know,

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Speaker 3: LA is huge, but it's small at the same time.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, girls Night Out was a and still

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Speaker 3: is around, a private Facebook group for women in LA

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Speaker 3: to network.

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Speaker 2: And let's talk about before we kind of get into

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Speaker 2: the more personal side of it, Like what was the

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Speaker 2: appeal of this group for you? Because I know for

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Speaker 2: me at the time, Facebook groups are still kind of

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Speaker 2: new ish, and I was like, oh my god, I've

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Speaker 2: never gotten to like connect with women so directly, and

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Speaker 2: it was really exciting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for me, it was appealing. I think most women

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Speaker 3: in the group, and most women in LA are transplants,

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Speaker 3: as they're called, so we're not from here. We didn't

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Speaker 3: move here with a ton of friends. Some of us did,

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Speaker 3: but for the most part, you move out here, you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe one or two people. And it was just an

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Speaker 3: easy way to meet other women in LA and other

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Speaker 3: people that you have things in common with. And the

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Speaker 3: group would also throw a lot of events they had,

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Speaker 3: like swim nights at the Roosevelt and bowling nights and

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Speaker 3: all these different events that you can go to and

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Speaker 3: sort of you know, strengthen your social anxiety and meet

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Speaker 3: women that you had things in common with. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: the appeal was friendship and community basically, and it.

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Speaker 4: Was the most supportive group on the planet.

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Speaker 1: You could write anything and everyone would be like, that's girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: Like I got you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there was definitely the appeal of like women's empowerment,

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Speaker 3: and it was just very supportive for the most part.

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Speaker 3: There were definitely, as we call them, gates, gates you know,

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Speaker 3: with yeah, when like something happens, it's a blah blah

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Speaker 3: blah gate.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, for the most part, but you know, if

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Speaker 3: you take twenty thousand of anything anyone, there's going to

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Speaker 3: be some bad seeds and bad experiences that come up,

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Speaker 3: But for the most part, it was just a really fun,

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Speaker 3: cute way to meet people. It was just like a

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Speaker 3: you know, it's been described as kind of an online

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Speaker 3: sorority in a way.

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Speaker 4: Totally. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I felt like it was a lot of like cool

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Speaker 2: girls who were in it, and I you know, wanted

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Speaker 2: to be a part of it. Like, yes, it's it's community.

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Speaker 2: But also like you kind of could see who the

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Speaker 2: like top girls in the group were, and I'm remember

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Speaker 2: there being just this like sort of aura of cool

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Speaker 2: around them, like, oh, like, how do you hang out

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Speaker 2: with the top? You know, the girls at the top.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there definitely were like there were rankings for sure,

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Speaker 3: like hierarchy, and there's definitely like a totem pole type

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Speaker 3: thing going on, and you could absolutely tell who which

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Speaker 3: ones were the popular girls. It's basically just high school, okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was like a big giant high school. I would

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Speaker 3: say that G and O Girls Night Out was the

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Speaker 3: high school and then the other group, which I'm sure

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Speaker 3: we'll get to, was like the sorority.

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Speaker 2: That's a good analogy. So where were you personally at

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Speaker 2: the time when you joined this group, were you knew

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Speaker 2: to La, Like, what was what was going on in

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Speaker 2: your life.

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Speaker 3: I had lived in La for I want to say,

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Speaker 3: like four or five years by the time I discovered

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Speaker 3: this group, and I think I just was added. I

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Speaker 3: don't remember trying to join it or whatever. A mutual

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Speaker 3: friend or something in the group just added me. I

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Speaker 3: think that, you know, people wanted the group to grow.

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Speaker 3: The admin of the group wanted the group to grow,

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Speaker 3: so I think she had instructed like, oh, I had

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Speaker 3: like five to ten of your girlfriends, like, let's make

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Speaker 3: this group bigger. We can get so much done. So

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Speaker 3: I just one day woke up and logged in a

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Speaker 3: Facebook and I was just like in this group, and

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Speaker 3: I remember like, what is this? I like the words

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Speaker 3: girls and it out that's a cute, clever name. And

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Speaker 3: I was just clicking around and all the threads were

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Speaker 3: very juicy or very informative. Yeah, it appealed to me

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Speaker 3: right away, just because you know, at the time, I

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Speaker 3: worked forty sixty hours a week, I wasn't really I

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Speaker 3: didn't have a ton of time to go out. So

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Speaker 3: this group was great because it just had things to

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Speaker 3: go to. Told you when and where to go, what

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Speaker 3: to wear, how to dress, like time to show up,

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Speaker 3: and it was just very structured and organized and sweet

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Speaker 3: and friendly and fun and yeah at the time where

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Speaker 3: I just didn't have a ton of time to make

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Speaker 3: new friends.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and for our gen Z listeners at this time,

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Speaker 2: So like my experience of this, I had been in

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Speaker 2: an industry in LA where women really had not been

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Speaker 2: connected to each other and it was really like competitive

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Speaker 2: all the time. And then this era of Facebook groups

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Speaker 2: begins and suddenly I'm like in g and O, but

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Speaker 2: I'm men also a Facebook group for women in comedy

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Speaker 2: if I was an admin of a group for women

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Speaker 2: in entertainment in general, and there was all this like

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Speaker 2: women connection happening, and it felt kind of revolutionary at

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Speaker 2: the time because you really didn't have a way to

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Speaker 2: do that in Los Angeles before, and everyone felt pitted

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Speaker 2: against each other. And it was kind of the first

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Speaker 2: time all of these groups, you know, it felt like

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Speaker 2: real community of women and Facebook was not yet uncool,

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Speaker 2: so everybody was on there.

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Speaker 3: It is so uncool now, it's like an abandoned theme park.

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Speaker 1: But they would like, I remember this era of female

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Speaker 1: Facebook groups where they and even this would happen in

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Speaker 1: girls I now where they would like post a picture

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Speaker 1: of a guy and be like beware of this guy,

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Speaker 1: and it was or like this happened with this student.

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Speaker 4: It could be like a kind.

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Speaker 1: Of powerful man that had I'd really been affecting a

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Speaker 1: lot of women, and you would be like, like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I remember I was dating a guy that this group

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Speaker 1: kind of outed and was like he's not a good dude,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, I guess we

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Speaker 1: have to break up down.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, it's very wild.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was in a way of promoting safety because

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Speaker 2: we hadn't been talking to each other before.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, and there was no way to you know, if

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Speaker 3: you want to warn the masses about a guy, there's

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Speaker 3: no real quote unquote normal way to warn the masses

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Speaker 3: about don't date this guy, unless it's like you're printing

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Speaker 3: out photos and posting him on you know, public places

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Speaker 3: or whatever. Like one way to just kind of like

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Speaker 3: just post a pic and like write the thing and

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Speaker 3: move on with your day. You can't like send that

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Speaker 3: out to the masses be a text message, like right,

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Speaker 3: like a crazy person.

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Speaker 1: And it's all sandwiched between like this is the coolest

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Speaker 1: way to do your hair right now.

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Speaker 4: So you're like learning about.

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Speaker 1: Hair an event, a dude you shouldn't date, and you're

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Speaker 1: just like, damn, I have like friends.

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Speaker 4: I remember.

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Speaker 1: I also just signed into Facebook one day and was

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Speaker 1: in it. I don't know who invited me. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: ye how, and I started like inviting all of my

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Speaker 1: friends because I was just like, we all gotta we

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Speaker 1: all gotta be in here, like we gotta do this.

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Speaker 3: Shit jobless and stuff too, job blessing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I had worked in so many sectors and every

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Speaker 1: girl I really liked that I worked with who I

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Speaker 1: thought was cool. They were all in here from every

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Speaker 1: walk of life, and I was like, what the hell,

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Speaker 1: Like this group just collected my personal favorite people from

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Speaker 1: every here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, put them in one place, and now they're telling

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Speaker 4: me what to buy.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say. And then there was also gno housing,

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Speaker 2: gno jobs. There were all of these other groups that

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Speaker 2: again were like we all need something, let's come together

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Speaker 2: and like figure it out in a group. And it

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Speaker 2: was meeting all these very specific needs for women only

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Speaker 2: generally in Los Angeles. Sorry, go on, yeah, oh, I.

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Speaker 3: Was gonna say basically the same thing. There were offshoots

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Speaker 3: of the group that kind of kept spreading and growing

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Speaker 3: like a little like different branches of the group, and

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Speaker 3: then the culty part of it began. If I'm allowed

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00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:14,040
Speaker 3: to transition to that project was please Apparently there was

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00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,520
Speaker 3: a smaller version of G you know, called Girls' Night In,

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Speaker 3: and that was actually the underground, sweet sweet candy of

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Speaker 3: groups like it was maybe had eight hundred to twelve

289
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Speaker 3: hundred girls only out of the twenty thousands exclusive very

290
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Speaker 3: and to the gen Z back in the day when

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Speaker 3: Facebook was the coolest, it was like being in the

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Speaker 3: best coolest group chat. I don't even know how to

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Speaker 3: describe what gen Z would do and like.

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Speaker 4: I would try to think, but just like a I don't.

295
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,560
Speaker 3: Know, it's gen Z on discord or something.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, there was a small version of the group

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Speaker 3: that was, you know, out of twenty thousand, there was

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Speaker 3: you know one that and girls. And you noticed in

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Speaker 3: this group it was all the women we were talking

301
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Speaker 3: about earlier, all the top coolest popular ones. And then

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Speaker 3: one day I just went I didn't know about the group.

303
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Speaker 3: I just was in it, just like I was in

304
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Speaker 3: G and L. And then you have to have people

305
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,040
Speaker 3: vouch for you and be like, oh, can we invite

306
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Speaker 3: her in? She'd be good. And you just like wake

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00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,320
Speaker 3: up one day and you're like, and you hear rumors

308
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,600
Speaker 3: like G and I, there's a G and I, but

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00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,760
Speaker 3: it's just like my club. You allowed to talk about it,

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Speaker 3: that's made up. Well, I leaked people like, oh, that's

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00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,440
Speaker 3: a rumor, there isn't one, And that was me and Lola.

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Speaker 4: We were like, that's a rumor. We would totally be

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Speaker 4: in it if there was one. Cool.

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Speaker 2: But I feel like I feel like I remember seeing

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Speaker 2: the group, Like I can't remember if I was in

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Speaker 2: it and someone and then I got kicked out, But like,

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Speaker 2: I feel like I saw the words girls night In.

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Speaker 2: But I totally could have made that up because it

319
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,680
Speaker 2: totally could have been other people posting about it and

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Speaker 2: me just saying that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my roommate, your roommate, wasn't it. A lot of

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Speaker 3: my friends changed the name of it a lot too,

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Speaker 3: so it would be it originally started as Girls' Night In,

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Speaker 3: but then it turned into like they would rename it

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Speaker 3: to inside jokes, which made it even more like, oh

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00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,800
Speaker 3: you would never know, like like they named it coconut

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Speaker 3: oil friendship group for a while.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow.

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Speaker 3: And then if there was like a popular funny thread,

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Speaker 3: they would change the group name to that it became

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Speaker 3: like warm fluffy towels was the name of it.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: It's like they would change it so that you know

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Speaker 3: people were not lying. There is no girls night in.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a moment to talk about the admin of this.

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00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,560
Speaker 1: Vivian is what we shall call her, Let's call.

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00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,280
Speaker 3: Her Vivian Vivian.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Lola, you wrote down some interesting things about

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00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,520
Speaker 1: what you initially thought of her, which was what we

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Speaker 1: all thought of her?

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Speaker 4: Will you say some of them?

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00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,520
Speaker 2: Yeah? I so we were Facebook friends. I don't think

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Speaker 2: I ever actually met her. I think I just was

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00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,199
Speaker 2: generally aware of her presence in these groups, and I

345
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,120
Speaker 2: would see her posts, and I specifically remember her flaunting

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00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,840
Speaker 2: her status as a social justice warrior, which is not

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00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,720
Speaker 2: a term that I really use, but I feel like

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00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,399
Speaker 2: she used it like as the badge of honor. I

349
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,640
Speaker 2: got this sense from her post that like she kind

350
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:34,400
Speaker 2: of was operating as this like soldier of morality who

351
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Speaker 2: knew exactly what you were and were not supposed to do,

352
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Speaker 2: and what was woke and what wasn't and what was

353
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Speaker 2: cancelable and she was ready to cancel you. Like that's

354
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Speaker 2: the general impression that I got of her. And at

355
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Speaker 2: the time I was like, oh my gosh, I need

356
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Speaker 2: to like stay up on what language I'm supposed to

357
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Speaker 2: use or not use, because like, you know, Vivian's gonna

358
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Speaker 2: keep me in check if not, and like, and that's

359
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:56,120
Speaker 2: something I would.

360
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,040
Speaker 3: Be scared of her too, hate me, and you would

361
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:00,800
Speaker 3: like be so hungry for her to be your favorite,

362
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,000
Speaker 3: so you could be safe if you did mess up.

363
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Speaker 2: Like and by the way, like I I care like

364
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,119
Speaker 2: that stuff that's been very always been very important to

365
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:10,919
Speaker 2: me and in that era, very important to me. But

366
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,359
Speaker 2: it was like another level, like I was attending social

367
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,359
Speaker 2: justice groups and stuff like that, but it was another

368
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:21,240
Speaker 2: level of like like hypervigilance almost about who was bad

369
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,159
Speaker 2: and who was good, and like at the turn of

370
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 2: a dime, it seemed like you could be deemed bad,

371
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,280
Speaker 2: so you kind of had to stand your toes. And

372
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,760
Speaker 2: this is my impression just like generally as a Facebook friend,

373
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Speaker 2: like not in the inner circle in any way.

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Speaker 1: Pretty accurate, and like the conversations wouldn't like sometimes it

375
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,560
Speaker 1: would just be a girl that you're like, WHOA, don't

376
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,520
Speaker 1: say that, and everybody would kind of attack her, you know,

377
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,639
Speaker 1: and that would be one thing. But then I remember

378
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,399
Speaker 1: one girl was like, put my hair in pigtails today,

379
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,359
Speaker 1: and everybody was like that's cultural appropriation, like braids aren't fine,

380
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:53,520
Speaker 1: and I was like whoa.

381
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,200
Speaker 3: Like that was sort of the flavor of the group

382
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,679
Speaker 3: where everything was under the guise of like teaching someone

383
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,600
Speaker 3: in learning and growing and being better and the right

384
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 3: correct way to be woke and how to move forward

385
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 3: and be better. It was all under that, but there

386
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 3: was such a nasty, venomous mean girl flavor tossed in.

387
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,119
Speaker 3: I don't really know how to describe it, like, oh, well,

388
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 3: like I'm being mean to you because like this is

389
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,479
Speaker 3: helping you, and you know, if it weren't be us

390
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 3: being mean, if it weren't me being like saying this,

391
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:26,560
Speaker 3: then someone else is going to do it in a

392
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,639
Speaker 3: way worse way, or like you're you almost got brainwashed

393
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,160
Speaker 3: into thinking you were lucky that that's how you were learning.

394
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 3: Stuff is being dragged like this is a lesson, Like

395
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 3: you should be grateful that this is how you're learning

396
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,919
Speaker 3: with a bunch of women rather than you know, some

397
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,240
Speaker 3: other way that's worse. I don't know, like and.

398
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 2: I will, yeah, And I just want to clarify, like

399
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 2: I think I speak for all of us when I say, like,

400
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 2: we all think over cultural appropriation and anything like reducing

401
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 2: a race or ethnicity to a costume like that stuff

402
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 2: is generally not good. We don't know that, you know,

403
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 2: racism is bad. None of us want to engage in

404
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 2: this stuff, but it can be very you know, at

405
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,199
Speaker 2: that time, in particular, the vigilance was so high that

406
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 2: it was hard to know like what was okay and

407
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 2: what was and it was all so so new, you know,

408
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 2: and Vivian sort of deemed herself as the arbiter of

409
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,239
Speaker 2: what was and was not acceptable. And by the way,

410
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,439
Speaker 2: Vivian was half Asian, but you know, she's not a

411
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 2: black woman. She was being the arbiter of rules for

412
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 2: ethnicities and raceist that she is not. Just to clarify

413
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 2: what that situation was.

414
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,959
Speaker 4: I was too scared to ever post because she was

415
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 4: always mad. I was just there to watch.

416
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 1: People get yelled at, essentially, or to see people's makeup

417
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,920
Speaker 1: ideas and stuff like that. But Nora, were you posting

418
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 1: a lot and were you getting like hard feedback and

419
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 1: comments that were kind of schooling you a lot.

420
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 4: Was that something that was happening.

421
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 3: So I, you know, in the beginning, we're all a

422
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 3: little too scared to post. And then as you see

423
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 3: the group grow, as you see how everyone's acting, and

424
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 3: when you see who's cool and popular, you know, I

425
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 3: would post and just be funny, Like I would just

426
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 3: post funny stuff because everyone liked that, and then I

427
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 3: started growing in popularity in the group because that was

428
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 3: the funny one. But I do remember being a little

429
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 3: too afraid to comment on the serious ones like would

430
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 3: I would post my own, but I wouldn't chime in

431
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 3: very much on the other ones, like being a fly

432
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,159
Speaker 3: on the wall was probably your safest way in that

433
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 3: and it could be very entertaining. And I did learn

434
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 3: a lot, like I did learn. I you know, before

435
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,919
Speaker 3: those groups, wasn't I wasn't even thinking about box braids.

436
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 3: I've never gotten them, but I didn't know until those groups,

437
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 3: like oh, I guess, yeah, that would be offensive probably

438
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,159
Speaker 3: to a black person, if a white girl wants to

439
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,120
Speaker 3: wear that as a costume. And you know, there would

440
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 3: be really great conversations and threads in there where you

441
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 3: would learn a lot and learn different perspectives. So I did.

442
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 3: There was so much value in that group because I

443
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 3: did learn a lot, Because even though the group itself

444
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 3: could be toxic, there were some really good people in

445
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 3: there in good competition, which is what keeps you.

446
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean.

447
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 3: All bad right, so for sure.

448
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 2: I mean that's the thing. It's like, the community aspect

449
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,360
Speaker 2: is valuable, and getting different perspectives is valuable. What sort

450
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 2: of starts to turn it is when the leader, when

451
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 2: it becomes more about her his or her particular whims

452
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 2: and less about connecting with each other and learning and

453
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:35,919
Speaker 2: growing together.

454
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 3: And then the group got even more exciting because there

455
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 3: were a few I don't want to say celebrities, but

456
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 3: I swear Tila Tequila was in that group. Oh yes,

457
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 3: and I think Grage left or got kicked out or something.

458
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 2: That up.

459
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 4: Honestly, there were a few.

460
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 3: Celebrities sort of sprinkled in, you know, CD list. I

461
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 3: hate to rank people like that, but you.

462
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 4: Know what I mean, celebrity adjacent.

463
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 3: Angelina Jolie wasn't in there really too.

464
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 2: Internet celebrities were in there, and again for gen Z listeners,

465
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 2: Tuila Tequila was huge on my Space and then had

466
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 2: a resurgence of fame like ten years later ish with

467
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 2: her reality show and stuff, and then kind of disappeared.

468
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 3: Like Tricia Petis or whatever.

469
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: Yes, oh my god, exactly exactly like Tricia Paitis. I

470
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 2: feel like, uh and I remember seeing girls who were like, yeah,

471
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 2: like my Space famous had I known in that time,

472
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 2: or like we're big fashion bloggers you know, like Internet

473
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: like micro Internet famous people who were just it seemed cool.

474
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was the first wave of influencers, you know,

475
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 3: when people were famous on Instagram. That was the first

476
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 3: that was kind of around the same time. Yeah, one

477
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 3: hundred thousand followers, so crazy, Yeah, I did. It did

478
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 3: feel like my Space celebrity adjacent.

479
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 4: In my Space?

480
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 1: What was the topics being discussed?

481
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 3: Girl Snagan was a little bit more like a giant sleepover,

482
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 3: like a slumber party. It was like slumber party vibes,

483
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 3: where okay, secrets, it's a small group, so you feel

484
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 3: a little bit more safe to be vulnerable. We were

485
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 3: definitely posting different things in there, just juicier pictures of ourselves.

486
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 3: It definitely felt like a safe space to express yourself

487
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 3: as a woman right first. You know, it's kind of

488
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 3: like a free for all, like it was just anyone.

489
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 3: You don't know who's in there, like your cousin could

490
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 3: accidentally be in there, and right.

491
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: Because I hear secrets and I think collateral, you know,

492
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 1: at this point.

493
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 3: In a way just a good way to bring up

494
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 3: you know, it would and things happen slowly in there.

495
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 3: Things get like normalized very slowly, so that you're not like,

496
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 3: oh Jesus, this is what goes on in here. It

497
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 3: would be like, you know, one member posting like, oh

498
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 3: I just got this like laningerie set, like and all

499
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 3: of us would be like show us, like show us,

500
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 3: and she's like, okay, I gotta post some spicy photos.

501
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 3: And then it would be like it would escalate to

502
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 3: women just fully posting nudes. That's before you can get

503
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 3: what's what it's called zucked, before you can get like

504
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 3: flagged and banned for nudes on Facebook. So many many

505
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 3: members I want to say, at least seventy percent posted

506
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 3: nudes in there, and again it was all right away.

507
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 3: It would just like gradual and then it seemed normal, like, oh,

508
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 3: like I feel safe here. This kind of is fun

509
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 3: to you know, feel sexy and you know, get the

510
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 3: ego boost in a safe space from women rather than

511
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 3: for the male gaze or however people like to say. So,

512
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 3: you know, I definitely posted lingerie kind of cute sexy

513
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 3: photos because it just, you know, it feels good to

514
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 3: feel good, and then it feels good to have that support.

515
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 3: But then after a while, it's like, why are we

516
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 3: all taking nudes and posting them in not a public

517
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 3: forum but like online essentially.

518
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 2: A thousand people a lot of people, to you know,

519
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,479
Speaker 2: that is like it's not like the whole world, but

520
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 2: it is like relatively public, and I do understand the

521
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 2: instinct as well. I'd be sending my friends, yeah, the

522
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 2: hot pigs of myself, you know, yeah.

523
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 1: Lola, Lola sends me pictures of her butthole like every

524
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: other day, every okay, So yeah, So I mean it's

525
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: a thousand people, sure, but it's a thousand people who've

526
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: all been vetted. I'm assuming that this is the height

527
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: of kind of the body positivity movement, So it's I mean,

528
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: it's a lot of like we all accept our bodies.

529
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: That was what was happening in Girls Night Out, Like

530
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: I would see a lot of girls posting their lingerie

531
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: pictures who weren't your typical people that would be doing that,

532
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: and we would all be like and I would feel

533
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: the same way, like yes, you go like this is

534
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: amazing whole now era being ushered in, but yeah, I

535
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: can totally see it kind of being normalized in Girls

536
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: Side Out, and then you move over to girls night

537
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: in end it being uh just.

538
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 4: Completely more safe.

539
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: And once you kind of start sharing those kind of

540
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: pictures with people, even unconsciously, you're just closer and I

541
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: want to yeah.

542
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's that bond, that vulnerable, yeah bond that you have.

543
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 3: And speaking of that, it's reminding me also this there's

544
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 3: here's there's nothing wrong with doing this because it's consensual,

545
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 3: and the girls who did it wanted to. And I remember, okay,

546
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 3: I got to start from the beginning. It's crazy. So

547
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 3: one of the girls that was her boyfriend's at the

548
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 3: times birthday and she's like, it's my boyfriend's birthday. Can

549
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 3: everyone in the group send him a sexy pick oh

550
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 3: or in his phone with like butts and boobs for

551
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 3: his birthday? And I remember being like, what, that's crazy,

552
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 3: but so many of the members did, and they posted

553
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 3: screenshots off his reaction and everyone's like pumping each other up.

554
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 3: So you're watching these people get attention and accolades sort

555
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 3: of for having done this, and one of the members

556
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 3: was one of like the more popular ones, and so

557
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, I kind of want to make her happy,

558
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 3: like maybe I'll just like son a leavage pick to

559
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: her boyfriend, which like, on the outside, that sounds crazy,

560
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 3: that sounds crazy, But then it would happen the next

561
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 3: week for someone else's boyfriend, and then again and again,

562
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 3: and yeah it's a week, and then it just was

563
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 3: normal to do to the point where at the time

564
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 3: my partner's birthday came around and I had them do

565
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 3: it for him.

566
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 4: Lucky.

567
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 3: Wow, it's very lucky.

568
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 4: But unfortunate for y'all.

569
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's and I mean it's fine because we

570
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 3: were all at the time like hey, like I know

571
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 3: what I'm doing whatever. But we're also again kind of

572
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 3: under the impression that this is normal and you should

573
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 3: do it. So you're like, oh, like I'm and you know,

574
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 3: there's the the incentive of like, well, I want to

575
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 3: be one of the cool ones. I'm not like other

576
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 3: girls like oh yeah ones, And so like here I'm

577
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 3: sending I would not today, not that there's anything wrong

578
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 3: with that. Personally, I would not today send a booty

579
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 3: pick to a friend's boyfriend for.

580
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: His And I'm so jealous if the girls were like

581
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: sending that to my boyfriend, if I asked them to

582
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: do that, I would like drop kick his phone out

583
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: the window and be like never mind.

584
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 3: From the outside, it's very not normal.

585
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 2: I mean, did you feel conflicted about it at the time,

586
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: Like did you have any like secret like feelings of

587
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 2: jealousy that you were suppressing, Like what did you feel

588
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: about that?

589
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 3: I so badly wanted to be cool in the group

590
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 3: that I was like, yeah, this is cool. Like you're

591
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 3: just you're kind of brainwashed, like like you are in

592
00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 3: a cult where you are sort of trained to want

593
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: these things to happen. You're you know, molded to do

594
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 3: those things, to let them in too, even if it

595
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 3: is uncomfortable. You're like, oh, but no, I'm so much

596
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 3: more body positive, sex positive.

597
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 4: Probably it feels like growth. It was all framed as growth.

598
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I was like, oh god, I

599
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 3: was such a prude before, Like this is cool, like

600
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 3: sexually free and don't be insecure about your boyfriend and

601
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 3: your relationship. Like if I'm secure, my boyfriend's awesome. Then

602
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 3: the more this happens and the more normal we are,

603
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 3: the cooler we are. Like, yeah, today, I would not

604
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 3: do it. I'm not judging people who sent those pictures

605
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 3: or because I did. I mean, it was like a

606
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 3: butt peg from whatever. It was definitely recycled. I did

607
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 3: not take a new one. Every girl knows what a

608
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 3: recycled nude is, and it wasn't nude. It was just like,

609
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 3: you know, I probably took it drunk or something for

610
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: my partner at the time, just recycled it. But yeah,

611
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: it just was. It felt normal, it felt cool. It

612
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 3: was just the thing you did. And like, looking back,

613
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 3: that is kind of very insane to the person I

614
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: am today, I would not do that. S wouldn't do that.

615
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you're being very diplomatic about it, which

616
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: is like it's good, Like, yes, we should be understanding

617
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 2: of whatever. Everyone has different ideas of what they're comfortable with.

618
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 2: But I think the point is that it's not something

619
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 2: that you would be aligned with you typically, right, It's

620
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 2: not something it was going against your natural sort of

621
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: instincts and what you felt in your life was normal behavior.

622
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: Because this group had sort of moved your boundaries and

623
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 2: like moved your sense of normal over here from where

624
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: you were initially, right exactly? And did that escalate? Like

625
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 2: how did that evolve?

626
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 3: I mean, I think people just started doing it more often,

627
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 3: posting nudes of themselves. I didn't, but there were threads

628
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 3: and threads and threads of inappropriate sexual pictures, either sometimes

629
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 3: with people and their partners or just themselves. And again,

630
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with being sexual. There's nothing wrong with

631
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 3: taking pictures with your partner, there's nothing wrong with sharing

632
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 3: those with the people that you're comfortable with. But at

633
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 3: the end of the day, do we know every thousand

634
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 3: people in here? Do we know them closely? But it

635
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 3: kind of felt that way because again it was like

636
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 3: summer party vibes, Like you just felt like he he,

637
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 3: Like you know, what stays here in the group just

638
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 3: stays here forever. But you forget. People can take a

639
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 3: screenshot and you forget. The next week someone might make

640
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,719
Speaker 3: you really mad, or you might make someone mad, and

641
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 3: now they just happen.

642
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 4: Vivian is not chill.

643
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 2: What's her role in all of this at that stage?

644
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 3: Givian has a background in the adult entertainment industry. She

645
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 3: used to run the site called God's Girls, which I

646
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 3: don't know if you're familiar, but if not, it is.

647
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 3: It was a spicy website, as I say, that was

648
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 3: heavily similar to Suicide Girls, which is like tattoos, piercings,

649
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 3: basically golf porn essentially. So she ran that, and the

650
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 3: lore is that her dad back of the day was

651
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 3: a porn producer as well, so she comes from a

652
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 3: background and you know, family wise and then also career

653
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 3: wise in the porn industry. So then she also had

654
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 3: that website called Crushy, which was before Gano, and it

655
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 3: was kind of like a social media MySpace type thing,

656
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 3: almost kind of like friends to remember that were aging ourselves.

657
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I vaguely remember this, but I don't

658
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 2: remember what the premise was.

659
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 3: And crush she was like, I can't quite remember. It

660
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 3: stayed anonymous until you decided not to be or something.

661
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 3: I was on there for a second and apparently they

662
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 3: had sort of like group chat video things or something

663
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 3: which I was not a part of. I didn't use

664
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 3: it very often just because I was like, not another website.

665
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 3: I don't want to have another thing in my life.

666
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 3: I just didn't have time for it, but Krushy I

667
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 3: think did have. I want to say there was a

668
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 3: sexual aspect to it as well, where a lot of

669
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 3: the members were either in the porn industry or something.

670
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: There was something I remember people saying that they were

671
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: like groomed from when they were underage to be a

672
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: part of this.

673
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 3: There were girls on God's Girls that came out after

674
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 3: everything went to shambles, and there were Reddit threads that

675
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 3: kind of claimed that Vivian had hand picked them for

676
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 3: God's Girls even though they were underage, and sort of

677
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 3: pressure them like it's fine, it's fine, You're safe, it's

678
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 3: all good. No needs No. Those are just the things

679
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 3: that I've read. I don't know these women. I was

680
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 3: not involved in God's Girls at all, but I did

681
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 3: read some places in here, some places that there was

682
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 3: some underage grooming going on for the women and girls

683
00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 3: who were on God's Girls.

684
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's an allegation that has been made.

685
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 3: Yes, I have read about that being a thing. I

686
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 3: don't know if it's true or not. I don't know

687
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 3: any of the women involved, so, but yes, that is

688
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 3: that has circulated before.

689
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: And also allegedly Crushy I remember reading somewhere a girl

690
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: saying that it was a lot of younger women with older,

691
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: richer men, almost like a sugar daddy site. But it

692
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: wasn't framed that way. It was like friendship, and you

693
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: were like, why am I friends with? Why is there

694
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: all these older powerful men and all these younger women whatever,

695
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: They're interesting, They're a rock star there or whatever, And

696
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: so that site was also suspect.

697
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, in terms of the dynamics in the group, what

698
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 2: was Vivian's role at that point, Like, was she encouraging

699
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 2: this kind of behavior? Was she using the existence of

700
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 2: these it is against anyone, like what was starting to

701
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 2: feel toxic about it?

702
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 3: Vivian was supportive of us expressing ourselves and posting those things.

703
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 3: We were never ashamed or anything. I do know that

704
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 3: other members of the group were not safe, because again,

705
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 3: you take a thousand people. You can have a thousand

706
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 3: people in a room that might be talk. There's a

707
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 3: thousand people in a group and yeah, one or two

708
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 3: opposite to drag you, and you know, similar to g Ando,

709
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 3: like if you say one wrong thing, if you do

710
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 3: something you know that people don't agree with. It's kind

711
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 3: of the hive mentality where you get kicked out of

712
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 3: the group, and when people get kicked out of the group,

713
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 3: they who knows if they screenshot all these things and

714
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 3: have all these photos and posts and secrets and confessions

715
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 3: against you. Like it was one big diary for all

716
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 3: of us and that we all shared and wrote in

717
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 3: kind of like the what is it the burn book,

718
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 3: I mean girls thing, So you just have to be

719
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 3: really careful. But for the most part, Vivian was more

720
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 3: like the mom of the group, the leader, Like definitely

721
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 3: she was the leader of the group and the head admin,

722
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 3: which sounds like so dorky. She also had admin, but

723
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 3: she was like the mother of the group, and you know,

724
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 3: if you thought something was off, but she would like

725
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 3: be like no, like this is hard, I'm doing it.

726
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, totally, like I don't want to get

727
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 3: kicked out of the group, Like I don't want to

728
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 3: lose these friends. I also don't want all these people

729
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 3: against me, because it was just so culty almost that

730
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 3: if you're out and you get excommunicated, you're the enemy

731
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 3: and you're evil and you're bad, and it's just a

732
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 3: scary place to be. After having written all that and

733
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 3: posted all that, and shared those photos and sent them

734
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 3: to people's boyfriends, you know.

735
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: And were people excommunicated and if so, like what for?

736
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 3: I can't remember exact details, but it would be something

737
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 3: as small as we're going to get box braids done

738
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 3: and not immediately being like, oh my god, you're right,

739
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry, Like Vivian, you're the one who knows all,

740
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 3: like if you didn't just worship her for any reason,

741
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 3: and again, hive mentality, like we would know maybe there's

742
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 3: something off about that, but when everyone's doing it, when

743
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 3: everyone's thinking it, you're in this group, and the addiction

744
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 3: to wanting to be included and wanting that community and

745
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 3: feeling so special in the weird you know, exclusivity of

746
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 3: oh that's that group doesn't exist. Like you were just

747
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 3: part of this big, powerful secret in this big powerful

748
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 3: town with you know, members of members who are married

749
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 3: to big rock stars and celebrities, and some of the

750
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 3: people in the group were also and are also celebrities.

751
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 3: So like you're in this secret, powerful group. And when

752
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 3: you're kicked out. I've seen people get kicked out or

753
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 3: moved in the way they get dragged and the way

754
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,240
Speaker 3: they would just talk so much shit is like awful,

755
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 3: and like, I never want that to be me to

756
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 3: the point where people would probably still still get dragged

757
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 3: because of those threats because you just.

758
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 2: Like thought it and like, would it be something overtly

759
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 2: racist that would get them kicked out? Because like, okay,

760
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 2: fair if you're being racist in a group, doesn't but

761
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: like or like what kind of stuff would it be?

762
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 3: Like it would be someone sticking up for themselves for once.

763
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 3: I think it was just people trying to branch off

764
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 3: and like, no, actually, that's that's weird to do. Like

765
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 3: I'm don't I don't want to send your boyfriend that,

766
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 3: or I don't want people to send my boyfriend anything,

767
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 3: or I you shouldn't have you shouldn't have posted a

768
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 3: full new girl what you're doing. And I'm like, oh see,

769
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 3: you think whatever, Like it would be anyone who's basically

770
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 3: thinking for themselves because the racist people didn't make it

771
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 3: into that group. Anyone who got it was messy, like

772
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 3: you had to be vouched for by I think remembers

773
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: or something, and everyone had to vote yes for you

774
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 3: to get in. So for the most part, many of

775
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 3: the women in the group are awesome and were great

776
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 3: and had a lot to offer and are still some

777
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 3: of my closest friends. Some of them aren't, and some

778
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 3: of them did turn out to be weird or not nice.

779
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 3: I'll just say, but yeah, when people got kicked out,

780
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,439
Speaker 3: it would be them just like enough of the shit,

781
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 3: Like I don't I don't have to agree with this,

782
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 3: I don't have to whatever, like just thinking differently, or

783
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 3: if you're not voting for Bernie Sanders, like you're out,

784
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 3: like you know, if you're like I don't think I'm

785
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:33,760
Speaker 3: I think I'm just not going to vote this election,

786
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 3: or even just saying like I thought about what if

787
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 3: I didn't vote the selection, she'd be like get out

788
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 3: of our group. Like you can just say that maybe

789
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 3: you're thinking about it. It would be something like that, or

790
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,760
Speaker 3: so I cannot in resist. I mean in that moment,

791
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 3: you know, you would just do something that was against

792
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 3: if you bought a dog and didn't adopt it or something,

793
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 3: or even asked like hey, like I'm trying to get

794
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 3: a specific breed for my allergy and my ESA whatever

795
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 3: things that I need. If you you know, and I

796
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,479
Speaker 3: think that people should adopt I don't think you should

797
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 3: shop for dogs. But there are circumstances where Okay, what

798
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 3: am I gonna do is save all the dogs in

799
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 3: the world by telling this one person but something something

800
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 3: as small as as that in comparison to being racist,

801
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 3: like where can I get this dog? Adopting it? And

802
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 3: it's like, oh my god, vi had designer dogs that

803
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 3: she thought.

804
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 2: Really, yes, of course she did, of course she did.

805
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 4: That is so funny adoptant shop.

806
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 1: But that yeah, if somebody needs an hour job, yeah yeah,

807
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: like come on.

808
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 2: So basically, so basically, Vivian has created this like moral

809
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 2: code that she herself does not adhere to. But she's

810
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 2: created like a code of how you must live your life,

811
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 2: and not just like how you must communicate, but how

812
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: you must literally live your life. And anyone who expresses

813
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 2: any variation of her idea of that right, because she's

814
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 2: the one upsetting this standard and deciding who gets kicked out,

815
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:04,919
Speaker 2: or there are other people as well.

816
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,959
Speaker 3: It was basically her Okay.

817
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so that's Caulds effect.

818
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 3: Yeah you don't like that, like if she does it,

819
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 3: if she does, like someone, you like that, it's looking back,

820
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 3: it's like, that's crazy.

821
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: It's a particularly difficult one to navigate because like ostensibly,

822
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 2: what she's promoting is like justice and equality and uh sex,

823
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 2: body positivity, loving yourself, helping dogs. Like ostensibly, like on

824
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 2: the surface, the thing that she is purporting to be

825
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 2: promoting are these things that we all want, Like we

826
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: all want want I mean not all of us, but

827
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 2: like I think most of the people in the group

828
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 2: want a world that looks like that where we're but

829
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 2: also we're humans and we're doing our best, and like

830
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 2: sometimes there might need to be a reason to differ

831
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 2: from Vivian's particular ideas about what that looks like.

832
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 3: It's a lot. I mean, it's a lot. It's you know,

833
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 3: like I explained before the appeal was you know, it's

834
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 3: under the guise of women empowerment and learning and growth

835
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 3: and mutual aid and helping the community. You know, one

836
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 3: of the members would help with Christmas presents for an

837
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,720
Speaker 3: unhoused mother with two kids, and we would all donate money.

838
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 3: And I heard that Vivian kept part of that money,

839
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 3: and that the member found that out. She moved it

840
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 3: to an Amazon wish list so that that couldn't happen.

841
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 2: But I do remember, I do remember hearing that rumor

842
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 2: as well. I remember hearing rumors about all of the

843
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,720
Speaker 2: like good deeds quote unquote that Vivian had been doing

844
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: that were actually just serving Vivian yep. And again this

845
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 2: is sort of a hallmark of a cult leader like figure.

846
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 2: I also, I just was googling her, and I remember

847
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 2: part of why, part of where I got my pression

848
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 2: of her as being like this like s JW whatever,

849
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 2: like but like really aggressive about it person. And it

850
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 2: was the lift incident.

851
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 3: Oh yes, I remember that. I remember that happening in

852
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 3: real time, Like, wait.

853
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 4: Okay, what are you all talking about?

854
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 2: You do you want to tell it? You can, just

855
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 2: so you can, Okay, Okay. So Vivian took a lift,

856
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 2: uh and noticed that her driver had a Hula girl

857
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:33,399
Speaker 2: bobblehead on the dash. She starts taking a video of her,

858
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 2: like telling this man that he's being racist. She threatens

859
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 2: to put him on Gawker. She says, you will be

860
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 2: like the next internet meme. It's going to be super funny.

861
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 2: She says, yeah, I'm sorry that you have no consideration

862
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 2: for actual When he says she's being rude because she's

863
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 2: basically just harassing harassing him, Yeah, I'm sorry that you

864
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 2: have no consideration for actual Hawaiian people who don't want

865
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 2: to be a bobblehead item in the car while you

866
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 2: were driving for lift. And then she calls him a

867
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 2: fucking selfish, dumbass idiot, and he kicks her out of

868
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 2: the car and says, here's a sidewalk, have a wonderful night.

869
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: She was aggressively harassing this man, like whatever you think

870
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: about you, Yeah.

871
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 3: She was whatever, definitely under the ampence.

872
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: Whatever you think about who the girl bobblehead like, I

873
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 2: understand why that could be a problematic thing to have.

874
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 2: Her approach was insane, and.

875
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 3: It turned out I think I want to say that

876
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 3: that lift driver was from Hawaii something you don't know

877
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 3: what you were talking about, like whatever, And she just

878
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 3: was trying to be very performative. Saw that as an

879
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 3: opportunity to do that, thought it would be a good

880
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 3: idea to record it, posted it right as it happened

881
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 3: because he dropped her off. I was like, I'm ending

882
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 3: this ride, like you need to get out because she

883
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 3: was being a little too much about it. Posted the

884
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 3: video in a couple of places to try to She's

885
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 3: like I'm gonna get you fired or something like that.

886
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 3: She wanted him to lose his job over it, because

887
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 3: he dropped her off in the middle of nowhere would

888
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 3: turn out like it was on a sidewalk, like to

889
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 3: get out of the car. I want to say he

890
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 3: temporarily did lose his job, but then got it back

891
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 3: once the other video because she posted it and immediately

892
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 3: took it down, But the internet is forever, it doesn't matter,

893
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 3: Like someone screen recorded it and reposted it on YouTube, and.

894
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, she immediately was like, oh, I'm the asshole.

895
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 3: I think she was not getting the response that she wanted.

896
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 3: She had posted it in the group and we were

897
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 3: even kind of like this, like you maybe shouldn't have

898
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 3: posted anywhere. And I don't know if someone screen recorded

899
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 3: it from the group and shared it. I'm not quite

900
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 3: sure how I got out out, but it.

901
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,720
Speaker 2: Did, and like right wing Twitter like seized this video

902
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 2: and used it as evidence of why all social justice

903
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 2: endeavors are like ridiculous and all these people are insane,

904
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 2: you know, like yeah, it fed into this like caricature

905
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 2: narrative of people who like actually are trying to promote

906
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 2: social justice.

907
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 3: And a lot of her stuff was very, like I said, performative.

908
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 3: Some of the stuff you know, she got some things

909
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 3: done and raised some money for some stuffs, Like a

910
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 3: little bit of good was done, but it was definitely

911
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:16,240
Speaker 3: performative and just to be perceived as this powerful person.

912
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 4: Was the dance party a part of her. That was

913
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 4: the drama that.

914
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 5: I was before Hula I think, Okay, I was the

915
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 5: dancing man thing, which again started that didn't really involve

916
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 5: as much.

917
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 3: Okay, all other members of G and I who were

918
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 3: kind of grifty about the whole thing also so we

919
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 3: we all collectively helped find the dancing man and located

920
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 3: him and we all.

921
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: The dancing man, just for anyone who doesn't know, was

922
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: a man who was dancing all by himself and it

923
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 1: was captured in the video.

924
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 4: Correct.

925
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 3: Someone took a picture of overweight man dancing in a party,

926
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 3: but he was by himself self and someone the it

927
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 3: was on four chan or something whatever that place is.

928
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 3: Someone posted a picture of him and goes, this guy

929
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 3: stopped dancing because we told him he's too fat to

930
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 3: be here. Whatever. It was just like fat shaming him

931
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 3: and telling him like he doesn't deserve to have a

932
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 3: good time dancing because he's fat, and it went viral

933
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 3: on four chan and then it went viral on Facebook

934
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 3: and people were like, we need to find this man

935
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 3: and like throw him a dance party, which is like

936
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 3: really sweet, and so we all collectively, you know, got

937
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 3: together and were able to find him, and two members

938
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 3: of the group weirdly took over financially. Who knows what

939
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 3: happened with that money did all this stuff. One of

940
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 3: the girls is women. Her name is Cassandra Fairbanks, which

941
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 3: if you google her, that's a whole other episode. I

942
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 3: don't even He's super liberal and is now like far

943
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 3: right crazy crazy.

944
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 2: It's like that's a conspiracy theory. She's now working for

945
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 2: like far at conspiracy theory websites, is what the Internet says.

946
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's a leap. She used to be like

947
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 3: vote for Bernie and the groups and like women's rights

948
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 3: and trans rites and all these things, and overnight, out

949
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 3: of nowhere, she just switched. But kind of before that happened,

950
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 3: she was involved in the dancing man thing, and uh,

951
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 3: they ended up throwing a party for him and it

952
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 3: was like cute and they like ended up on the news,

953
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 3: but then they squeezed everyone else out, and who knows

954
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 3: what happened with all the money. That we raised. I

955
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 3: don't know, God, I don't know, because a lot of

956
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 3: celebrities donated stuff too, so I was like, they probably

957
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 3: don't need our twenty dollars venol.

958
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 4: Then yeah, I think I donated to that. So I

959
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 4: was very invested that.

960
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 3: All kind of went weirdly downhill. There's a lot of.

961
00:49:56,000 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: That was my opening of cognitive critical thing of like,

962
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 1: this group might not be perfect.

963
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,439
Speaker 2: Wait, what was your understanding of what happened, Megan? Because

964
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 2: I missed that whole thing.

965
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: That everybody was getting together to throw this man a

966
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: party to dance with him, because the meme that was

967
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 1: shared was so heartbreaking, and that it was going to

968
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 1: be this beautiful group effort and it's the heart of Gno,

969
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: We're all coming together. And then suddenly two I think

970
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: it was two people were giving the interviews and kind

971
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 1: of using it as self promotion and completely ignoring the

972
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 1: fact that this was not a about them. It took

973
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 1: a giant group effort to do. And people started commenting

974
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: on it in girls, I know, like, this is so wrong.

975
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: People are taking responsibility for something they didn't do. And

976
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: now that I know Vivian wasn't involved directly with that,

977
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: it makes sense of why those things were allowed to

978
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: stay up, because usually she would delete things that attacked her.

979
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:04,720
Speaker 1: But that's that somehow cracked through my my cognitive dissonance,

980
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh damn that girls.

981
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 3: Definitely the beginning of the end of like this is

982
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 3: getting weird, just like you said it. Definitely, you know,

983
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 3: your steady senses go off a little. You're like, this

984
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 3: is like something is off about this. But that was

985
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 3: a crazy time. And then it turned out, I want

986
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 3: to say, that guy's from London or something. It turned

987
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:30,479
Speaker 3: out that his job was looking for him because he

988
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 3: was in trouble for some kind of fraud. People were

989
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 3: looking for him. So when that story came out, that

990
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 3: came out or like this guy is a good guy

991
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 3: just because someone you know, and who knows if that

992
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 3: picture even I don't believe anything on the internet anymore.

993
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 3: Who knows that if that picture was just him like

994
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 3: putting looking down because he was like looking for his wallet,

995
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 3: they can get that photo. And then someone just spread

996
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 3: this whole thing. But yeah, it turned out that that

997
00:51:58,480 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 3: guy wasn't.

998
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 2: Even you know, wow, I mean, that is an honest

999
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 2: mistake that that does happen all the time where like

1000
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,439
Speaker 2: someone on the internet seems so sympathetic and then you

1001
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,879
Speaker 2: and then you learn stuff about them. I just I'm

1002
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 2: just struck by like how I mean, I kind of

1003
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 2: already said it, but just like how hard it could

1004
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:21,280
Speaker 2: be to parse because you are ostensibly doing good things,

1005
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 2: You're trying to do the right thing. And in so

1006
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 2: many of these situations where people are trying to do

1007
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 2: the right thing, I mean, so many cults start out

1008
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:35,240
Speaker 2: with really wonderful intentions and ideas. You know, I always

1009
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 2: talk about the People's Temple. Jim Jones was promoting like

1010
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 2: harmony between racis and a multi racial coalition church and

1011
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 2: you know, like anti racism. So like there's there's always

1012
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 2: that like great thing that is making it seem appealing

1013
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 2: and making it hard to kind of just realize, like

1014
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 2: hard to decipher between Wait, aren't we doing something good though?

1015
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 2: And like wait, are we doing this too much?

1016
00:52:59,560 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 4: Wait?

1017
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 2: Is this just about actually promoting the leaders are Oh

1018
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 2: they're taking my money. Oh they're like they're turning us

1019
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 2: all into black and white thinkers. Like it happens gradually

1020
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 2: over time, and it's so much harder when like, ostensibly

1021
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 2: it's about doing the right thing, you.

1022
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 3: Know exactly, and like, like I said earlier, we were

1023
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 3: doing great stuff and all all the members for the

1024
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 3: most part, were awesome and still are, so you know,

1025
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 3: you're not. Everywhere you look isn't bad. It's like, oh,

1026
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 3: I love this person, Like these girls are great, and

1027
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 3: these women are awesome, and yeah, all this stuff and

1028
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 3: raising all this money and helping this unhelped woman with

1029
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 3: her kids for Christmas, and raising money for this and what.

1030
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,959
Speaker 3: You know, as soon as money gets involved in any way,

1031
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 3: things get a little bit more weird. And the money

1032
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 3: thing just started happening a little bit more often, which

1033
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 3: was another red flag where I was like, why are

1034
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,399
Speaker 3: we But you know, it'd be like ten dollars here,

1035
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 3: fifteen dollars here, twenty dollars here. Then looking back, I'm like,

1036
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 3: oh my god, like cent probably like three hundred like

1037
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 3: last the last like four months, which is not a

1038
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 3: lot of money, but no, it is out about like

1039
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,399
Speaker 3: a thousand people. Gosh, I wonder how much money that is.

1040
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 2: You know? All right, right, she got.

1041
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 3: Pretty grifty about, Oh, let's do the math. There's a

1042
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 3: thousand of you. If you each send me ten dollars

1043
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 3: for to help out such and such. It could be

1044
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 3: made up. She's getting three thousand dollars or you know,

1045
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 3: thirty thousand dollars at the end of the month. After

1046
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 3: a while, it's just like, I don't know how much

1047
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 3: money from this group. The crazier part, if we're going

1048
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 3: to talk anything money, was she wanted to turn G

1049
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 3: and I, which turned into a whole company. She turned

1050
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 3: it into an LLC because she wanted to start like

1051
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 3: a marijuana business and wanted to use She changed the

1052
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 3: name this is so funny. Changed the group named Girl Cults.

1053
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 3: There was there was like inside jokes, like or like

1054
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,320
Speaker 3: everyone thinks part cult and it's like, oh my god

1055
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 3: that we were joke.

1056
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they have to they have to make I know,

1057
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: it's kind of.

1058
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1059
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 3: It's to like get ahead of the crowd of like whatever,

1060
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 3: and then you turn into an inside joke so that

1061
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,399
Speaker 3: you don't take it seriously. We even had members who

1062
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 3: were pretty heavy into like the fashion design world, you know,

1063
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 3: back when left was like a thing, those kind of brands.

1064
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 3: I forget the exact brand, but one of the girls

1065
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 3: made a limited addition shirt that said I'm a member

1066
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 3: of a secret Internet cult, and like they only printed

1067
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 3: a certain amount and like this the shirts were like

1068
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 3: this big inside secret joke thing or like you kind

1069
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 3: of like a secret handshake type thing. But yeah, clothes,

1070
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 3: and we had a few shirts, like there was shirts

1071
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 3: that we would wear and whatever, and you would occasionally

1072
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 3: see someone out and be like, oh my gosh, like

1073
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 3: you're a girl cult And she turned it into an

1074
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 3: LLC and was like, we can all have a percentage

1075
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 3: of this company. I just need to raise money to

1076
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 3: you know, pay for the LLC. Everyone just chipping like

1077
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 3: ten fifteen bucks and like together, we're like revolutionizing like

1078
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:24,439
Speaker 3: all this stuff that we're doing and turning it into

1079
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 3: this whole thing, and we're going to make so much.

1080
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 3: We're gonna make a huge difference in the world, and

1081
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 3: we're going to be this big company and everyone and

1082
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 3: whatever like, oh my god. Exciting, Like we're like becoming

1083
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 3: like this whole thing. And so what's ten fifteen dollars?

1084
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 3: Who cares?

1085
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 2: Well, we all did it, and I'm guessing no one

1086
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,359
Speaker 2: who was contributing to that investment had any stake in

1087
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 2: this company.

1088
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,879
Speaker 3: Of course, we didn't think our stak was. We got

1089
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 3: to say that we got scammed out of fifteen and

1090
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 3: twenty dollars'll be mad and then you know, the money

1091
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 3: stuff just got weirder and weirder. And one of her

1092
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 3: designer dogs was very sick and needed to be euthanized

1093
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 3: at home, so we all chipped in for that because

1094
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 3: she was freaking out she didn't have the funds to

1095
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 3: do that with you know, the home. The home services

1096
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 3: are much more expensive than bringing them into the vet.

1097
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 3: So we all were like, oh my gosh, like, of course,

1098
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 3: anything for this sweet puppy, older dog. But we all

1099
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 3: sent in, you know, money to have that happen. And

1100
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 3: we checked on her for a couple of days like

1101
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 3: are you okay, Like that's such a huge loss, and

1102
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 3: then I'm not kidding you. I want to say, two

1103
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 3: days later she posts a new puppy of another designer

1104
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 3: dog that she bought stop with our money that gave

1105
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 3: her to put down her other dog, because if she

1106
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 3: had enough money, like are you doing the math? Like

1107
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 3: we send her this money for the for the dog,

1108
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 3: and instead of sending anything back or being like, oh guys,

1109
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 3: don't she clearly had enough to get an entire newss.

1110
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: Oh my god, So are these kind of the cracks

1111
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: that are starting to occur for you and the illusion.

1112
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, the cracks are growing and spider webbing and

1113
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 3: getting bigger and more frequent, and not just for me,

1114
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 3: as everyone was starting to sniff around for like that's weird,

1115
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,439
Speaker 3: you know. On the side text start like yeah, dog,

1116
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 3: everyone listen. Everyone grieves differently. I'm not judging anyone whatever

1117
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 3: choice for me personally, I when my cat passed away,

1118
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 3: I was not thinking about getting another cat within two days,

1119
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 3: like I just wouldn't be ready again. Everyone does that differently,

1120
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 3: but I was like, that's kind of bonkers to me, Like, yeah,

1121
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,919
Speaker 3: replacing your dog with the same kind two days later

1122
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 3: and it's.

1123
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 4: A designer dog. After yelling at people for years to

1124
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 4: not do that, right.

1125
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and after taking her moody to put down her

1126
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 3: other dog. But you know, no one forced to give

1127
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 3: this money. So it's like, hey, you know, like the

1128
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 3: lesson lesson learned, and you know, I might have given

1129
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 3: three hundred dollars the whole time I was in their total,

1130
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 3: including donating to people in need who directly caught it,

1131
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 3: but a lot of other members gave a lot lot more.

1132
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 2: I was gonna ask.

1133
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 3: And you want to feel important, and yeah, irreplaceable.

1134
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 2: So did people start calling her out on this like.

1135
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 3: So a little. I don't know if they did in

1136
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 3: the group, but I think people were like, hey, friend,

1137
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 3: Like I was not as close to her as other members,

1138
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 3: Like I didn't hang out with her one on one.

1139
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 3: I didn't go to a lot of the events just

1140
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 3: because I was like, this kind of feels weird all

1141
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 3: of a sudden. But I think some of her close

1142
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 3: friends were like, dude, like what was that? What was

1143
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 3: that all about? And like money makes things weird with

1144
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 3: anyone close friends, culture not you know, but yeah, people

1145
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 3: we're starting to be like this is off, and then

1146
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 3: you know, I want to say there was like there's

1147
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 3: definitely like a final story of like the financial stuff.

1148
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was all the tea. I didn't know, Like

1149
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 2: I kept hearing girls like whisper about how things had

1150
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 2: gone really shady in G and I and how things

1151
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 2: had gotten really culty in G and I long before

1152
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 2: we had this podcast. This is what everybody was kind

1153
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 2: of whispering, but nobody would ever give me specifics. Like

1154
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 2: I knew there were financial questions and allegations, and I

1155
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 2: knew there were I the sort of inklings that I

1156
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 2: got were that were Yeah, like to use Megan's word,

1157
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,960
Speaker 2: like that there was a collateral type of thing happening

1158
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 2: in the group where people's secrets would be used against them.

1159
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 2: Was that were they ever actually used against them or

1160
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 2: was it just sort of like this hanging threat that

1161
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 2: people were anxious about.

1162
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 3: So I don't know if it was Vivian specifically or

1163
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 3: if it was ex members of the group who felt better.

1164
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 3: But yeah, like things got leaked, people's pictures got shared,

1165
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 3: people's posts in the group got screenshot and posted publicly.

1166
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 3: A lot of women in the group are sex workers

1167
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 3: whose identity needs to stay private and safe. Some of

1168
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 3: those women got doxed. Oh yeah, so it did thankfully

1169
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 3: for me. I posted maybe like one cute lingerie photo

1170
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 3: in the group and like, look, girls, I feel cute,

1171
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 3: and like maybe one recycled but to like some random

1172
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 3: person's boyfriend in twenty sixteen, So like, I didn't, you know,

1173
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 3: share too much, but I there are things in there

1174
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 3: that I hope are not screenshop but you never know.

1175
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 3: But yeah, things got leaked, people's pictures did get shared,

1176
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:55,240
Speaker 3: people's secrets got posted, and yeah, are.

1177
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 2: There any connection between like people who had sort of

1178
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 2: spoken out or disagreed with Vivian and were then.

1179
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there were a couple of people that that

1180
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 3: happened to. Yeah.

1181
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 2: Interesting.

1182
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 3: And again I can't tell if it was her who

1183
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 3: posted it, because I think some of these leaks were anonymous.

1184
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 3: Someone had started a whole blog they did.

1185
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 4: I'm gonna take a wild guess that it's her.

1186
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: You you did say one thing that was really interesting

1187
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: to me, so in the group I was raised in

1188
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: the two by two is if somebody left, they were

1189
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: immediately called better. And I did hear Vivian say that

1190
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 1: word a couple times in Girls Night Out, where if

1191
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 1: somebody was kicked out, she'd be like, they're better, They're mad,

1192
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 1: And I'd be like, yeah, better is such a low key,

1193
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: like good cult tactic I found.

1194
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, that's.

1195
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 2: It immediately delegitimizes any critique that they might have of

1196
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 2: the group, and it immediately creates it denigrates them. It

1197
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 2: creates an us versus them.

1198
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:04,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they just sound like such a lame hater,

1199
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: like a better just like like in the crying like.

1200
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 3: It definitely just like minimizes their truth, which is like

1201
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 3: I just couldn't do it. Anymore, you know, right, But yeah,

1202
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 3: I know people who's who are still kind of recovering

1203
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 3: from the doxing and wow, life ruining, just like private

1204
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 3: things about the relationships and my gosh, preferences that are.

1205
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 2: Turns out it wasn't such a safe space.

1206
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 3: I was trust no one really.

1207
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 2: I have a short film that I made called The

1208
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 2: Safe Space, which was not I didn't know any of

1209
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 2: the inner workings of this particular group, but I know

1210
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 2: I would notice some patterns along these lines in some

1211
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 2: of these Facebook groups. Some of them were fine and great,

1212
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 2: but that was what inspired my short The Safe Space,

1213
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 2: which is about a safe is it turns out to

1214
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 2: not be safe for the members who.

1215
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 1: Do not Is this ending?

1216
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 3: It's already I'll check it out.

1217
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 2: It's very short, it's two minutes long. But yeah, it's

1218
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 2: it's online if anyone wants to see it, because yeah,

1219
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 2: it's it would it seemed, yeah, it was. It scared me.

1220
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 2: That era of Facebook groups scared me because you would

1221
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 2: join something thinking that it is a safe place, and

1222
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 2: then you would see it would become just like more

1223
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 2: and more aggressive and hostile and like more about more

1224
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 2: about conforming and then about like having a community or

1225
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 2: connecting or like learning in a healthy way you know.

1226
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, terrifying. It's terrib Yeah, it's so good and

1227
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 3: a lot of it is good. Again, I met some

1228
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,600
Speaker 3: really amazing women in that group, and I'm still friends

1229
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 3: with a lot of them, you know, because it's not

1230
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 3: about the members being bad as much as the environment

1231
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 3: and like the leaders.

1232
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 2: So well that's the thing. It's like it gets hijacked

1233
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 2: and that, and like that's what takes time to kind

1234
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 2: of figure out, is like, oh, is this person like

1235
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 2: healthy leader or is this person like yeah, you know,

1236
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 2: low key, kind of narcissistic or have possessing.

1237
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 3: Like three episodes, there's just so many, I knows to it. Yeah,

1238
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 3: pretty crazy And do you have just that money thing

1239
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 3: was wild. She had her own car shop that she

1240
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 3: promoted as women owned, and it wasn't And she was

1241
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 3: like working at this auto shop body shop place. And

1242
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 3: I found out later I don't know if it's true

1243
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 3: or not, but it was like circulating that she was

1244
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 3: committing like insurance fraud.

1245
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 4: I do not doubt doubt that at all.

1246
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 3: Everything that she did kind of had some kind of weird,

1247
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 3: grifty foundation.

1248
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 1: Absolutely so put a voice to these rumors. Can you

1249
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 1: just kind of talk us through how you woke up

1250
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: and how you got out and what was kind of

1251
01:05:58,560 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 1: going on around you.

1252
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 3: I initially got out of the group kind of it

1253
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 3: sort of crumbled on its own. I was not active

1254
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 3: in it for a while, kind of after the dog thing,

1255
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:13,360
Speaker 3: and you know, there was just so much going on

1256
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 3: in the world. I want to say, this was happening

1257
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:21,680
Speaker 3: during the Black Lives Matter movement first coming out, and

1258
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 3: if anyone knows about this group, they know what this

1259
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 3: is going to be. But she was doing like mutual

1260
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 3: aid and going out to protest and bringing water and

1261
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 3: bringing food and snacks and having everyone venmo her to

1262
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 3: provide water for everyone at the protest, and was making

1263
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:43,240
Speaker 3: like an Amazon wish list for things or said she

1264
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 3: was going to but in the meantime to cash up

1265
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 3: her and venmo her. And we're like, of course, and

1266
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 3: we see, you know, her posting on her stories that

1267
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 3: she's at these and she is handing out water, so

1268
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 3: you're like, okay, Like I I can see my money

1269
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 3: going somewhere. Although maybe she only bought like a case

1270
01:06:57,640 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 3: of forty and got like four hundred dollars. I don't know.

1271
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 3: But the thing that her downfall, which is so crazy,

1272
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 3: was she had posted a pair of shoes that she

1273
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:09,919
Speaker 3: wanted with a link and said, I really want these

1274
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 3: shoes for the protest since I'm walking around so much,

1275
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 3: I could really use like a pair of shoes, and

1276
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 3: everyone was like, what you need protest shoes?

1277
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 4: Like what were the shoes? I have to know, I.

1278
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 3: Don't remember, Like I would probably equate it to maybe

1279
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 3: some like on Clouds or something where they're like not she,

1280
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 3: They're like, you know, on clous to start like one

1281
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 3: twenty or something go up to like two hundred bucks.

1282
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 3: I think they were like frere and also like what

1283
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 3: we just all venoed you what shoes were you wearing

1284
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 3: this whole time? Like just wear those? And then she's

1285
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 3: had like a specific, like kind of snobby pair of

1286
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 3: shoes and we were all just like what for what?

1287
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 3: And was just that kind of forced everyone to like

1288
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 3: take a step back and be like what is going on?

1289
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 3: And then it just turned out, you know, everyone was

1290
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 3: sending her so much money and she was bringing like

1291
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 3: I don't know, ten sandwiches and like a case of

1292
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 3: Costco waters. I don't know, I don't know, I'm not

1293
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 3: saying she didn't help at those things. But after all

1294
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,440
Speaker 3: those incidents, like you know, with the dog thing and

1295
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 3: the LLC thing and all all the stuff, We're like,

1296
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:17,679
Speaker 3: the math isn't mathing, and I think I'm in a cult?

1297
01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:20,680
Speaker 4: What does that feel like?

1298
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1299
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, what were you?

1300
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 3: It was crazy. It wasn't a shocking as you would think,

1301
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 3: because there are moments where like, this is kind of culty,

1302
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 3: but I sort of like it. I feel like anything

1303
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 3: where you like in a sorority, it's kind of culty,

1304
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:39,599
Speaker 3: and like people are fine with that, and you know,

1305
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:43,919
Speaker 3: like there's there's structures socially where that kind of stuff happens.

1306
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 3: And we made a joke that its occults. But then

1307
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god. And you know, when

1308
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 3: that downfall started happening with the protest shoes, we all

1309
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 3: started being like, hey, like, are you guys feeling what

1310
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 3: I'm feeling? Like, yeah, I feel like this is weird, Like,

1311
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 3: oh my god, like is this a cult? Like kind

1312
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:03,599
Speaker 3: of realized it together at the same time, so it

1313
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 3: wasn't as scary as like me being the only one

1314
01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:10,160
Speaker 3: trying to escape and everyone threatening me or me feeling

1315
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:12,840
Speaker 3: like I'm in danger. Because I want to say she

1316
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 3: like deleted her Facebook or like closed the group because

1317
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 3: everyone started kind of bringing up like what's going on,

1318
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,559
Speaker 3: like what we're and also whatever happened to this money

1319
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:25,080
Speaker 3: and this money and whatever happened with the LLC, and

1320
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 3: she just kind of went into hiding and we all

1321
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 3: sort of tried to scramble and brainstorm together, all the members, but.

1322
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 4: So she shut down the group.

1323
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:36,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I don't really remember, because I don't know

1324
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 3: if it's like so much time has passed or if

1325
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 3: it was just like my chalmar brains, like don't even

1326
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 3: think about it, how embarrassing, but the group got deleted

1327
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:48,559
Speaker 3: or something like everything got deleted. I think there were

1328
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 3: a couple other admins who felt afraid because all of

1329
01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 3: our stuff was in there, and no one wanted anything

1330
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 3: screenshot for her to retaliate or anything, because here's this big,

1331
01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 3: powerful person when it comes to personal lif information powerful.

1332
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:03,599
Speaker 3: So I think one of the eminents went in there

1333
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 3: and just like shut it all down because everything was

1334
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 3: it got bad real fast, all at once. But my

1335
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 3: experience was not super shocked or scared again because we

1336
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 3: all realized it, you know, it kind of crumbled on

1337
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:22,479
Speaker 3: it having to leave. Yeah, but yeah, it took many,

1338
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 3: many months and for some a lot of people like years,

1339
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:28,360
Speaker 3: and people are still kind of dealing with the trauma

1340
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:32,559
Speaker 3: that that group brought out. Yeah, it was crazy.

1341
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 2: Do you have friends who left, maybe before the whole

1342
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 2: thing collapsed and like experienced fear and repercussions because of that.

1343
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 3: You have friends who left, but they weren't super involved.

1344
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 3: They just kind of felt weird or just like you know,

1345
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 3: they left and they didn't feel super affected either way.

1346
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 3: I know a couple of people who left or maybe

1347
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:00,519
Speaker 3: got kicked out. I can't quite remember because again this

1348
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 3: was around twenty nineteen already, but they were not good

1349
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 3: like when they did, because I think it was like

1350
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:11,040
Speaker 3: a kicked out type thing. And then one of those

1351
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 3: people got docked and their screenshots got shared, so they

1352
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 3: were not good and they felt, yeah, afraid for their

1353
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:19,599
Speaker 3: safety and their privacy. A lot of it was just

1354
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 3: really private.

1355
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 4: Stuff, right, like some.

1356
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:27,880
Speaker 3: Crazy confessions went down and there, and again it was

1357
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 3: a diary, but a thousand people had the key, which

1358
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 3: is right, right, we're scared.

1359
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:37,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was never in g and I I guess

1360
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 2: I must have just seen it. Like some was like

1361
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 2: seeing people write about it, because I definitely like knew

1362
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:46,679
Speaker 2: it existed and like wondered why I hadn't been added

1363
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 2: to it. Maybe, but I still remember even muting GNO

1364
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:56,599
Speaker 2: the larger group because some of the threads would just

1365
01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 2: be so combative and like hostile. Yeah, and it just

1366
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 2: felt like non stop drama, And I was like, I'm

1367
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:08,920
Speaker 2: going to just remove myself from seeing this in my

1368
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:10,440
Speaker 2: feed because this is Trussie.

1369
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 3: It was like an energy stock for sure. Some sometimes Yeah.

1370
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 2: And that was just like the big the big group

1371
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:18,200
Speaker 2: that wasn't even the inner cert of stuff at all.

1372
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 2: So I can only imagine we.

1373
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:22,720
Speaker 3: Would make fun of GNO all the time in GNI, like.

1374
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 1: We would make that yeah, yeah, I would have been

1375
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:27,120
Speaker 1: sending boob pictures.

1376
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:28,720
Speaker 4: And pachologically my secrets all day.

1377
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:33,720
Speaker 3: Psychologically it was just like so scrumptious, like yeah, yamyam yam.

1378
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 3: I don't know how else to describe.

1379
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:36,920
Speaker 2: It, scrumptious.

1380
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 1: So how did you start to rebuelb after this blow

1381
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:45,679
Speaker 1: to your your like view of life?

1382
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 3: I again, wasn't so so so involved that I feared

1383
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 3: for my safety or anything like that. I it's kind

1384
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:58,760
Speaker 3: of embarrassing to be like, oh my God, I was in.

1385
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 1: Call It's like, well, that's what this podcast is about,

1386
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 1: because it's not of course.

1387
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I just think, well, you know, I'm in

1388
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:09,360
Speaker 3: a cult and I don't really realize that, like ha ha,

1389
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:11,519
Speaker 3: it's a girl cult. Like it's a joke. And I'm

1390
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 3: sitting here like watching a documentary on a cult. I'm

1391
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:16,719
Speaker 3: like my mouth full trip, I'm like talk people mosel stupid,

1392
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 3: and I'm like watching it, I'm like this whole time,

1393
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 3: I'm so that was uh, it was just a little

1394
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 3: uh embarrassing. I my a lot of my friends were

1395
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 3: deeply traumatized and troubled by everything that happened. So I

1396
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 3: think for me, it was more me feeling for other

1397
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:39,840
Speaker 3: people and just feeling terrible that like how do we

1398
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 3: not know this earlier? Like I should have known earlier?

1399
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:45,360
Speaker 3: And you know, guy, did you not to do that

1400
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:47,800
Speaker 3: or not say that? And you know, like you can't

1401
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:49,519
Speaker 3: you can't really look back and think of it that way.

1402
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 3: But I'm I'm fine from it, you know, like certain

1403
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:56,800
Speaker 3: things are achey to talk about and certain things I

1404
01:13:56,800 --> 01:14:01,920
Speaker 3: completely forgot about and learning things about Vivian, you know,

1405
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:05,840
Speaker 3: about like the underage possible like trafficking people. You're like,

1406
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:08,560
Speaker 3: oh my god, I gave money to that person. I

1407
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:11,840
Speaker 3: helped that person. I looked up to that person. So

1408
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:13,959
Speaker 3: it was like, once everything kind of came to the surface,

1409
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 3: I was like kind of eeked out, but like, eh,

1410
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 3: like I helped this person who actually ruined a lot

1411
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 3: of people's lives, and you know, caused a lot of

1412
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:26,320
Speaker 3: pain and trauma in people's lives. So for me, the

1413
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 3: experience looking back is like, I wish I didn't never

1414
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 3: help that person when I feel bad for everyone who's

1415
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:33,960
Speaker 3: been deeply affected by it.

1416
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:45,519
Speaker 2: Where is Vivia now? What's going on with her?

1417
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:51,760
Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, those paparazzi photos came out.

1418
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:53,640
Speaker 4: What paparazzi photos the.

1419
01:14:54,160 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 3: Dave Grol debacle. Someone from the group or I don't

1420
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:03,840
Speaker 3: know if it's g and I or GNO or someone

1421
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 3: who couldn't get into G nine and was bitter as

1422
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:12,320
Speaker 3: you said. Docsed a few people and their phone numbers

1423
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 3: and Vivian's whereabouts and gave information to the Daily Mail,

1424
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 3: it seems, and they took paparazzi photos of Vivian.

1425
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 1: So Dave girl Foo fighters he's in the news right now.

1426
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 1: He got somebody that's not his wife pregnant, and there

1427
01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 1: are rumors and pictures of him with Vivian, And now

1428
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 1: the people were wondering if she was the baby mama.

1429
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 4: She I do not.

1430
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:40,760
Speaker 3: She is not.

1431
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 1: No, but that was a rumor on the Daily Mail

1432
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:47,200
Speaker 1: for a moment. But yeah, she's just kind of come

1433
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:49,559
Speaker 1: back in the zeitgeist. Is why was she hanging out

1434
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:52,200
Speaker 1: with this man all the time? And you know, Dave

1435
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:56,200
Speaker 1: girl sucks. And then from that article I was transferred

1436
01:15:56,200 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 1: to another article was like this is how bad Vivian is.

1437
01:15:58,880 --> 01:15:59,800
Speaker 4: This is what she was doing.

1438
01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:03,040
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh damn's she's being like outed

1439
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:03,639
Speaker 1: once again.

1440
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 4: She just comes up every couple of years.

1441
01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:07,759
Speaker 3: Is like, yes, yes, and it's always very juicy.

1442
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:11,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, but she's not the baby mama, so the rumor

1443
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 2: is false. And also I just have to say, like

1444
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 2: people cheat on each other all the time. I don't

1445
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 2: think it's ethical, but I don't necessarily think that warrants

1446
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 2: like being your whole life being uprooted and canceled over that.

1447
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:24,800
Speaker 1: Well.

1448
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 2: I don't think we're saying cheating is abuse, right, That's

1449
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 2: like a different thing. But it just is bringing up

1450
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 2: this stuff from her past.

1451
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:34,000
Speaker 3: It's bringing up stuff because she used to brag in

1452
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:36,320
Speaker 3: the groups about hanging out with him and him coming

1453
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:39,679
Speaker 3: over and him paying for her bills and all these things.

1454
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:46,520
Speaker 3: So when when the news surfaced that he went outside

1455
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 3: of his marriage with some form of relationship, everyone was like,

1456
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 3: who was it Vivian because she would always talk about

1457
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:58,280
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff. So then like, you know, people

1458
01:16:58,320 --> 01:17:00,320
Speaker 3: are making tiktoks like does anyone I think this is

1459
01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 3: about Vivian? And people were posting on Facebook, like you know,

1460
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:06,360
Speaker 3: sharing the article and being like we all know who

1461
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 3: are thinking about like without that, So it just kind

1462
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:12,840
Speaker 3: of spread like wildfire. And then people who wanted to

1463
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 3: I don't know, weirdly monetize off of that just kind

1464
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:22,360
Speaker 3: of reached out to weird daily mail people and I

1465
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:26,200
Speaker 3: don't know weird and I you know, I don't think

1466
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 3: anyone really deserves their privacy being invaded or you know,

1467
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:32,559
Speaker 3: people being followed and photos being taken. You know, it's

1468
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:36,000
Speaker 3: the whole thing was pretty icky. Yeah, she did not

1469
01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 3: look happy in the photos, and I think people kind

1470
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:44,360
Speaker 3: of liked that she didn't look happy. So I have

1471
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:48,600
Speaker 3: no feeling about that. I don't think it's right to

1472
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:51,760
Speaker 3: you know, give out people's personal information because some of

1473
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:54,000
Speaker 3: her ex friends, like people who are close to her

1474
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 3: got docked and people shared their numbers. I don't talk

1475
01:17:57,840 --> 01:17:59,519
Speaker 3: to that person anymore, like why are you calling me?

1476
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:01,800
Speaker 3: And like bring up this person? So it just kind

1477
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:03,200
Speaker 3: of started up a lot of things that didn't need to.

1478
01:18:03,439 --> 01:18:07,800
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's messy. It's messy. Like I think that

1479
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:12,719
Speaker 2: like J and I was obviously extremely problematic. Obviously Vivian's

1480
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:17,439
Speaker 2: history is checkered. It's hard to verify which allegations are

1481
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:20,439
Speaker 2: real and which are not. But I also like it

1482
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:23,200
Speaker 2: starts to make me feel like the internet is perpetuating

1483
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:26,760
Speaker 2: the same thing when we're fixating on looking for all

1484
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 2: the things publicizing someone else's private things if it did

1485
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:33,280
Speaker 2: not involve like abuse or something that was actually.

1486
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 3: Exploitation, right, it's just like it's gets messy. But you know,

1487
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:38,880
Speaker 3: gossip is gossip, and it was a very gossipy article

1488
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 3: for a.

1489
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:41,839
Speaker 2: Very yeah platform, So yeah, yeah, yeah.

1490
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:44,120
Speaker 3: I don't blame them for like, yeah, really trying to

1491
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:45,400
Speaker 3: wring out the towel.

1492
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 1: But I kind of think cheating without production is a

1493
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:48,639
Speaker 1: little abusive.

1494
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:51,719
Speaker 2: You can get things, But also I just like for sure,

1495
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:54,320
Speaker 2: but I also just like so many people make mistakes

1496
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 2: like that in their life, and there's so the situations

1497
01:18:57,120 --> 01:18:59,240
Speaker 2: like are not in them, we don't know what's going on.

1498
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:03,040
Speaker 2: We also don't know who has arrangements and doesn't you know,

1499
01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:05,680
Speaker 2: Like it's yeah, I just think that's the kind of

1500
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:08,960
Speaker 2: thing that should stay between partners, unless unless someone was

1501
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:09,720
Speaker 2: genuinely hurt, you.

1502
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:13,800
Speaker 3: Know, Yeah, if you don't want anyone to know, don't

1503
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:16,600
Speaker 3: do it for everything in life, and.

1504
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:17,679
Speaker 2: Best if you're famous.

1505
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:21,320
Speaker 4: Actually yeah, you.

1506
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:25,040
Speaker 3: Really, Yeah, that's it's so easy to just well that's kind.

1507
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:26,720
Speaker 1: Of probably one of the takeaways you took from this

1508
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:31,000
Speaker 1: experience is like oh damn, like just don't do what

1509
01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:33,200
Speaker 1: my gut instinct is telling me to do.

1510
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:37,400
Speaker 3: And yeah, but again like uh, those kind of things

1511
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:40,360
Speaker 3: happened really slowly, slowly, little little, a little little, and

1512
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:43,000
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, something's normal. So because you know,

1513
01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:46,599
Speaker 3: of course, looking back, I can't believe girls were sending

1514
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:49,840
Speaker 3: pictures like that to a complete stranger of a man

1515
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:53,160
Speaker 3: just because we know his girlfriend, like we're all you know,

1516
01:19:53,920 --> 01:19:56,160
Speaker 3: I look back, I'm like, that's crazy. But if you

1517
01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:59,639
Speaker 3: see it little by little happen, then all of a sudden,

1518
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:02,400
Speaker 3: it's normal. Then you're like okay, then you're desensitized and

1519
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:04,599
Speaker 3: the next thing is not so crizy. That's what I'm.

1520
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:08,040
Speaker 2: Saying, Like we are all capable of engaging and behaviors

1521
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:10,959
Speaker 2: that aren't aligned with what we would normally want, depending

1522
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 2: on the circumstances we're in, especially in a group like that.

1523
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:16,439
Speaker 2: Like that's the whole thing. It does. It wears down

1524
01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:19,320
Speaker 2: your sense of like what you would normally do and

1525
01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:23,960
Speaker 2: what does feel aligned with yourself ethically, So like it, yeah,

1526
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 2: I mean pretty crazy. I want to know, like you know,

1527
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:30,080
Speaker 2: to someone who wasn't in this era of Internet and

1528
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:32,840
Speaker 2: is in like a new era of Internet, like what

1529
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:35,280
Speaker 2: do you what would you consider like some of the

1530
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:36,720
Speaker 2: red flags to look out for?

1531
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:41,680
Speaker 3: Red flags? I mean, I if you again, if you

1532
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 3: don't want anyone to know, don't do it. If you

1533
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:48,960
Speaker 3: don't want Here's the thing. The Internet is forever, like

1534
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:51,160
Speaker 3: no matter what you're doing, no matter how safe you

1535
01:20:51,200 --> 01:20:56,040
Speaker 3: think you're being, the Internet's basically forever. So don't really

1536
01:20:56,240 --> 01:20:58,920
Speaker 3: you can't really trust anyone. You don't really know anyone,

1537
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:01,120
Speaker 3: and that happens all the time. I'm not saying to

1538
01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:04,800
Speaker 3: live life completely closed off, but you know, have your

1539
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:11,479
Speaker 3: own safety and character in mind before wanting to be

1540
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:13,760
Speaker 3: perceived by someone else, If that makes sense.

1541
01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:16,040
Speaker 4: I don't like have a journal and a therapist.

1542
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:21,920
Speaker 3: You know, prioritize your own self care and like self allness, right,

1543
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:24,720
Speaker 3: and don't rely on like you know, I mean, community

1544
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:29,400
Speaker 3: is important, and having safety and you know, protection in

1545
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:34,200
Speaker 3: friendship and social relationships with women is important. But it's

1546
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:35,960
Speaker 3: like always go with your gut. If there's like one

1547
01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:37,680
Speaker 3: thing that you're like, this kind of seems weird, Like

1548
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:39,760
Speaker 3: I should have left at dancing, man, you know what

1549
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:42,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I should have like left off, like I

1550
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:44,679
Speaker 3: don't really need this, but I think I think being

1551
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:48,120
Speaker 3: perceived in this town is such an addiction, like especially

1552
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:51,240
Speaker 3: in LA and like wanting to be important and wanting

1553
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:54,600
Speaker 3: to be known and wanting to be popular. It's just

1554
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 3: those kind of things don't really leave people's brains just

1555
01:21:57,560 --> 01:21:59,640
Speaker 3: because they leave high school and like leave college and

1556
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:03,000
Speaker 3: leave their sorority. It's like all those things you still

1557
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:05,400
Speaker 3: want to be the best. It's just human nature, you know.

1558
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:08,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, high schools forever, which is so sad to think.

1559
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:11,519
Speaker 2: It's so sad always like that.

1560
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:13,639
Speaker 4: It's more like middle school forever.

1561
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:16,599
Speaker 3: Yeah true, yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess the red flags

1562
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:20,200
Speaker 3: they're just you know, don't if someone is asking you

1563
01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 3: to be someone that you're not, that's a red flag.

1564
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:26,599
Speaker 3: No matter how cool it seems or how edgy or whatever.

1565
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:31,000
Speaker 3: You know, it's it's tricky. And have good people around

1566
01:22:31,040 --> 01:22:35,760
Speaker 3: you to be like, I think you're gonna cull find

1567
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:37,720
Speaker 3: your something good people, And like as soon as you're

1568
01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:40,640
Speaker 3: being isolated or told to keep things a secret, like

1569
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:42,880
Speaker 3: that's as soon as you're a little kid, your mom's

1570
01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:46,599
Speaker 3: like playing most secrets, like tell Molly and everything, most secrets,

1571
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:50,519
Speaker 3: and then suddenly like living in a secret nothing from

1572
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:51,400
Speaker 3: first grade.

1573
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:55,679
Speaker 1: And I think, like, like it's just important to remember

1574
01:22:55,800 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 1: that every single good thing in the world is good

1575
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:02,439
Speaker 1: going to be infiltrated.

1576
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:04,400
Speaker 4: By somebody trying to exploit it.

1577
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:09,519
Speaker 1: Sounly, I keep hearing the Bridesmaid's quote whenever you talk Rosy,

1578
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 1: she's like, never trust anybody.

1579
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:13,839
Speaker 4: Remember that.

1580
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:18,439
Speaker 1: No, you don't know, I might be like misquoting it,

1581
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:22,760
Speaker 1: but she's like, never trust anybody. And you know, like

1582
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 1: positive movements they get those little yucky people sucked in

1583
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:32,000
Speaker 1: and they're sociopaths, so they rise to the top as

1584
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:36,800
Speaker 1: immediately and then suddenly you know something that looks really

1585
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:41,040
Speaker 1: and it's just yeah, your discretion always has to be used,

1586
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:43,360
Speaker 1: no matter how safe a space feels.

1587
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:45,479
Speaker 3: Not to make people paranoid, but.

1588
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 1: Just thank you for sharing about this group that we've

1589
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:54,120
Speaker 1: been so curious about. It's hard to find a Girl's

1590
01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:58,160
Speaker 1: Night In member who is willing to speak to us,

1591
01:23:58,160 --> 01:24:00,280
Speaker 1: so we're so grateful that you are kind of giving

1592
01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:03,200
Speaker 1: us the tea and the whole story.

1593
01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:03,920
Speaker 4: I'm shuck.

1594
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:07,080
Speaker 1: All I knew was dancing, man, I did not know

1595
01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:11,200
Speaker 1: the shoes. That's wild that that's.

1596
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:12,520
Speaker 3: What I'm sure there's some kind of Reddit.

1597
01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's what took us down.

1598
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:19,080
Speaker 1: Is just perfect, you know, the of course you would

1599
01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:22,160
Speaker 1: ask for shoes, but yeah, thank you.

1600
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:23,519
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

1601
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:26,679
Speaker 3: Yeah for sure.

1602
01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:30,519
Speaker 2: Okay, uh well we both know if we would join,

1603
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:35,120
Speaker 2: because we were in the larger group and probably wanted

1604
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:37,000
Speaker 2: to be in Girls' Night In, right.

1605
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:39,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, would have been sending all sorts of pics all

1606
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:40,360
Speaker 1: day long.

1607
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, I didn't necessarily feel like this group was

1608
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:49,559
Speaker 2: my community so much, but I definitely like, I think

1609
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:52,400
Speaker 2: something about the secretive nature of it made me just

1610
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 2: want to know what was happening. I'm like, well, I

1611
01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:55,400
Speaker 2: don't want to be out of the loop.

1612
01:24:56,320 --> 01:24:56,519
Speaker 4: Right.

1613
01:24:57,120 --> 01:25:00,519
Speaker 1: In my experience, it was that like five of my

1614
01:25:00,600 --> 01:25:02,879
Speaker 1: really good friends were in it, and we had a

1615
01:25:02,920 --> 01:25:06,080
Speaker 1: group chat about the drama. Oh you didn't like did

1616
01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:09,760
Speaker 1: you see the ridiculous thing Blah posted and the responses

1617
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:13,040
Speaker 1: and like it was just kind of a funny like

1618
01:25:13,080 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 1: a Twitter account almost for a side group text.

1619
01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:18,280
Speaker 2: Right right, right, right. Yeah. I was never that close

1620
01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:21,479
Speaker 2: in it. I just like all these acquaintances and whispers

1621
01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 2: and rumors, and I just more was like, what's happening?

1622
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:28,120
Speaker 2: Why am I not in there? But yeah, you know,

1623
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:31,360
Speaker 2: you were making a point before we started recording about

1624
01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:35,200
Speaker 2: how the safer the group feels you can finish the thought.

1625
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:38,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I was just kind of musing that I

1626
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:41,880
Speaker 1: feel like the more niche and safe the group starts out,

1627
01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:46,519
Speaker 1: the more likely somebody predatory is going to find it,

1628
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:48,760
Speaker 1: infiltrate it, and find a way to use it for

1629
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:50,320
Speaker 1: their own gain. Yeah.

1630
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:52,080
Speaker 2: It's just so hard because it's like you don't want

1631
01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:55,479
Speaker 2: to you don't want to foster like a sense of

1632
01:25:55,560 --> 01:25:58,519
Speaker 2: total distrust of the world, Like that's not healthy for

1633
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 2: our psychees. There are so like, yeah, it's but you're right,

1634
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:06,759
Speaker 2: like there is every I think basically, like every group

1635
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:10,400
Speaker 2: needs to have accountability and every group needs to like

1636
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:14,920
Speaker 2: have a leader who like gets allows feedback and accepts

1637
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:19,160
Speaker 2: feedback and has conversations. And if those aren't happening, then no,

1638
01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:22,720
Speaker 2: no group deserves implicit trust without Yeah, you know.

1639
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:25,160
Speaker 1: It's a hard it's a hard pill to swallow because

1640
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:27,639
Speaker 1: I don't know, the Internet kind of sets us up

1641
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:32,280
Speaker 1: for giant dopamine heads from being part of the tribe.

1642
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:36,519
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's still fine, but uh, you know, maybe

1643
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 1: Nora can show us how to think twice before you

1644
01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:40,719
Speaker 1: go any deeper.

1645
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:44,360
Speaker 2: Indeed, and also as a reminder to I think this

1646
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:47,639
Speaker 2: story serves as a reminder to like take note of

1647
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:51,759
Speaker 2: even the small concessions, because the small they always start small.

1648
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:55,040
Speaker 2: They never open with the big stuff, you know, it's

1649
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:58,160
Speaker 2: always like a little bit and a little bit. And

1650
01:26:58,200 --> 01:27:00,920
Speaker 2: then I think it's like, Okay, if someone's asking you

1651
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:03,559
Speaker 2: to make small concessions or do things you wouldn't normally

1652
01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:05,719
Speaker 2: do that don't seem like a big deal at the time,

1653
01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:09,320
Speaker 2: are you able to question it? Are you allowed to

1654
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:12,599
Speaker 2: voice a different opinion? Because if you are then maybe

1655
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:15,240
Speaker 2: it's okay because we all make mistakes and you know,

1656
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:17,920
Speaker 2: groupthink happens to all of us. But if you aren't

1657
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:21,160
Speaker 2: allowed to question it, then that's exactly probably when you

1658
01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:21,840
Speaker 2: should be right.

1659
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:28,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, damn well, lots to think about, lots to integrate.

1660
01:27:29,200 --> 01:27:31,799
Speaker 1: We can't wait to see you again here next week.

1661
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:34,960
Speaker 1: Please rate us five stars if you like what we're doing,

1662
01:27:35,320 --> 01:27:37,640
Speaker 1: and as always, remember.

1663
01:27:37,320 --> 01:27:40,160
Speaker 4: To follow your gut, watch out for red flags.

1664
01:27:40,160 --> 01:27:48,519
Speaker 2: And never ever trust me me Bye. Trust Me is

1665
01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:52,120
Speaker 2: produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and Steve Delemator.

1666
01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:53,639
Speaker 1: With special thanks to Stacy Para.

1667
01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:56,040
Speaker 2: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1668
01:27:56,200 --> 01:27:59,080
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1669
01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:02,599
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at

1670
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:04,320
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1671
01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:07,880
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1672
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:11,160
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Abraham

1673
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1674
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:14,840
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word