1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:09,200
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A bride in her wedding

2
00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:16,160
Speaker 1: dress mowed down dead, the driver sniveling guilty in court.

3
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,400
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

4
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:20,120
Speaker 1: being with us.

5
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,680
Speaker 2: North Carolina bride Samantha Miller and groom Eric Hutchinson have

6
00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,480
Speaker 2: just said their vows and tied the knot on Fowley Beach,

7
00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,000
Speaker 2: South Carolina, setting off to celebrate the night. They're writing

8
00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,839
Speaker 2: down a beach road in a golf cart when they

9
00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,920
Speaker 2: encounter a deadly surprise.

10
00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,919
Speaker 3: On the golfer, showing me you didn't want to night

11
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,840
Speaker 3: to ends there on the floor, Kevin.

12
00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,400
Speaker 4: The next thing I remember is waking up in the hospital.

13
00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 1: That is the groom of a beautiful bride mowed down

14
00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 1: by a drunk driver who just showed up in court

15
00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,600
Speaker 1: sniveling guilty. That's aroun our friends at ABC four joining

16
00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,440
Speaker 1: me in All Star panel to make sense of what

17
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:14,280
Speaker 1: we know right now in the last hours, the sniveling,

18
00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:20,679
Speaker 1: snotting dui driver Jamie Lee Komrowski shows up in court

19
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,920
Speaker 1: and she paints one picture for us all to believe

20
00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,440
Speaker 1: she's reading off of a document about how sorry she is,

21
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,360
Speaker 1: and she loses her place. The lawyer has to point

22
00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,240
Speaker 1: to her where to keep reading. That's what she wants

23
00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,800
Speaker 1: me to see. But I want you to see who

24
00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:42,360
Speaker 1: she really is.

25
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:59,960
Speaker 5: Listen, I'm glad, Okay, Well, varied minds have different opinions.

26
00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,600
Speaker 1: Yes, you are a bad person, but I'm not the

27
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,280
Speaker 1: church lady. This is not about whether you're a good

28
00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,520
Speaker 1: or bad. This is not whether you're you know, houring

29
00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,000
Speaker 1: out on the corner or you're in the choir loft

30
00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,560
Speaker 1: singing on Sunday morning. This is about the death of

31
00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:20,120
Speaker 1: a beautiful young woman, a woman who died after she

32
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:25,520
Speaker 1: was slammed into on her wedding night in her bride's dress,

33
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:31,400
Speaker 1: her body thrown over one hundred yards from her golf cart.

34
00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:37,440
Speaker 1: Because you, Comarowski, were drunk, so drunk that when you

35
00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,480
Speaker 1: stood up when cops got there, you fell down. You

36
00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:46,400
Speaker 1: stunk of alcohol. But that's me talking. Let's hear more

37
00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:47,840
Speaker 1: from the horse's.

38
00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:52,800
Speaker 6: Mouth, right, I don't know what's happened to me, because

39
00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,640
Speaker 6: fan fans happened to good people hating.

40
00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,800
Speaker 7: That's why it's just it's just feet. It's just something

41
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,760
Speaker 7: happened to you. And we are going to deal with

42
00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:05,000
Speaker 7: the reventually.

43
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:11,280
Speaker 1: Today, Why do bad things happen to me? What happened

44
00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,040
Speaker 1: is that a bride was murdered on her wedding night.

45
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:23,160
Speaker 1: The groom is irreparably physically, mentally and emotionally damaged. He

46
00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,600
Speaker 1: had bleeding to the brain. The golf cart they were

47
00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:35,800
Speaker 1: driving was found seventy five yards away from the crash.

48
00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:43,000
Speaker 1: The golf cart flew seventy five yards away from the crash.

49
00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,280
Speaker 1: Can I just look at this very quickly? I want

50
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,960
Speaker 1: to go to Kimberly Cockrell joining US victim services manager

51
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,880
Speaker 1: at Mothers Against Drunk Driving? Did you just hear the

52
00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,760
Speaker 1: drunk driver over two times the legal limits? She's point

53
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,440
Speaker 1: TiO six. Now, wait a minute, I was told over

54
00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,760
Speaker 1: two times. That's over three times. Isn't the legal limit

55
00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,520
Speaker 1: point zero eight in that jurisdiction? She's over three times

56
00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,520
Speaker 1: the legal limit? But I'm hearing her say, why is

57
00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:15,920
Speaker 1: this happening to me?

58
00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,600
Speaker 8: She was taking absolutely no responsibility at that point. It

59
00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,520
Speaker 8: was the enabling that her family has done got us

60
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 8: to this point. What she was in that point was

61
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,839
Speaker 8: thinking about herself, not what she did that night.

62
00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,080
Speaker 1: Joining us now is Mark Pepper out of Charleston, South Carolina.

63
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,039
Speaker 1: This jurisdiction veteran and high profile criminal defense attorney with

64
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,080
Speaker 1: the Pepper Law Firm. Mark, thank you for being with us.

65
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,760
Speaker 1: What do you do with a client? She actually said,

66
00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,400
Speaker 1: you know, well, let's just here one more time, Control room,

67
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,000
Speaker 1: if you could play sixty eight again, because I want

68
00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:51,360
Speaker 1: Mark Pepper to hear this.

69
00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:58,920
Speaker 6: I don't happen to me, because happened to good people.

70
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,280
Speaker 7: To our it's just great. It's just something that happened

71
00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,599
Speaker 7: to you, and we are going to deal with the.

72
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,080
Speaker 1: Okay, bad things happen to good people. You may like

73
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,960
Speaker 1: the victim Samantha and her husband Eric. Then what do

74
00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,080
Speaker 1: you do with the client that is so self obsessed?

75
00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:24,000
Speaker 1: She's whining about herself, the woman the bride is dead,

76
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,840
Speaker 1: the husband's got so many screws in his mouth he

77
00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:31,080
Speaker 1: probably sets off alarms, and she's saying, me, me, me, me, me,

78
00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:32,960
Speaker 1: What do you do with that? I wouldn't even let

79
00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:33,799
Speaker 1: her stand up and talk.

80
00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:35,880
Speaker 9: Yeah, Nancy, thanks for having me.

81
00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,040
Speaker 10: One of the toughest parts of our job as criminal

82
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,840
Speaker 10: defense lawyers is not only dealing with the facts of

83
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,960
Speaker 10: the case, but dealing with our client and their family members.

84
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,159
Speaker 10: As we just heard, it was very, very clear early

85
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 10: on and likely throughout this prosecution, that the family members

86
00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:58,040
Speaker 10: were simply enabling her. And the reality never sets in

87
00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,360
Speaker 10: until I physically go to the client and make them

88
00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,240
Speaker 10: understand that. You can believe whatever you want to believe,

89
00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,760
Speaker 10: that good things having to bad people and bad things

90
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:08,719
Speaker 10: having to good people. That's all good and well, but

91
00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,840
Speaker 10: at the end of day, you need to understand the reality.

92
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:12,599
Speaker 1: Ms.

93
00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:13,240
Speaker 9: Kamarowski.

94
00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,320
Speaker 10: The reality is you're in a bad spot because of

95
00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,120
Speaker 10: bad decisions that you made, and you're facing twenty five

96
00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,200
Speaker 10: years in prison. Let's start focusing on how we can

97
00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,680
Speaker 10: mitigate that. Quit talking to your family members, quit talking

98
00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,680
Speaker 10: to anybody that's going to enable you, and tell you

99
00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,320
Speaker 10: what such a good person you have that's wrong. Okay,

100
00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,560
Speaker 10: We've got work to do. That is ninety percent of

101
00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,040
Speaker 10: our job as criminal offense attorneys.

102
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,760
Speaker 1: And we look at your screen. Do you see this

103
00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:45,080
Speaker 1: woman there's more bread than sack. Let me just say

104
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,400
Speaker 1: that about her shirt. Okay, but again, not the church lady.

105
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:54,120
Speaker 1: I don't care. You're seeing shots just then of Kamarowski.

106
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,039
Speaker 1: Now that is the woman who put on the crying

107
00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,800
Speaker 1: jag in front of the judge. And I'm not through

108
00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,640
Speaker 1: with the judge. Yet either everybody keeps saying she got

109
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,600
Speaker 1: the max. She did not get the max. This judge

110
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:11,000
Speaker 1: ran all the sentences concurrently at the same time. They

111
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,960
Speaker 1: should have been run consecutively, one after the next. But

112
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:21,520
Speaker 1: that said, this reminds me of someone else after the

113
00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:26,040
Speaker 1: murder of a family member. All they can say is me,

114
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,560
Speaker 1: me me, me, me, me, me, me me me. Listen,

115
00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:29,600
Speaker 1: I think you know her.

116
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,480
Speaker 6: Just to understand, we're all going in so many different directions.

117
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,080
Speaker 6: We just want to go in the right one.

118
00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,000
Speaker 11: Well, I can't point you in that direction when I'm

119
00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:43,240
Speaker 11: literally at a standstill. I am just as removed from

120
00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:47,120
Speaker 11: the situation as somebody who has no clue what's going on.

121
00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,040
Speaker 11: At least even random people that we've never met have

122
00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,840
Speaker 11: more of an outlook on this than I do. Right now,

123
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:59,280
Speaker 11: it's really sad. That's really really sad that I literally

124
00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,360
Speaker 11: have nothing right now.

125
00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,760
Speaker 1: Wow, you are seeing top mom Casey Anthony on a

126
00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,040
Speaker 1: jail phone call. Her parents constantly have to calm her

127
00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,840
Speaker 1: down because she's obsessed about me, me, me, me me.

128
00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:20,160
Speaker 1: There she's saying, I literally have nothing now. Your daughter

129
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,880
Speaker 1: is dead and a trash bag and a swamp woman

130
00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:31,840
Speaker 1: and you're whining behind bars about your situation. Really, I

131
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,480
Speaker 1: need to shrink and I need one right now. Let

132
00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,719
Speaker 1: me go out to doctor Jory crass and joining US

133
00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:41,240
Speaker 1: Forensic Psychologists faculty, Saint Leo University, author of Operation s OS.

134
00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,320
Speaker 1: There's got to be something stronger in your DSM manual

135
00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,240
Speaker 1: than narcissistic. There's gotten to be something stronger. I mean,

136
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:54,080
Speaker 1: you see top mom. Two year old Killy is dead, murdered. Okay,

137
00:08:54,280 --> 00:09:00,200
Speaker 1: you see Kamarowski. The bride is dead. She flew the

138
00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:05,959
Speaker 1: the air one hundred yards thanks to Karowski, and she's saying,

139
00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:07,880
Speaker 1: why did this happen to me?

140
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:09,840
Speaker 9: What is that?

141
00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,120
Speaker 12: You know, Narcosism doesn't just start overnight. You don't become

142
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,360
Speaker 12: this type of person. We've heard the term enabled and

143
00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,160
Speaker 12: if you look at it, her life has been full

144
00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:25,320
Speaker 12: of this enablement and that keeps her from making choices

145
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,880
Speaker 12: and decisions, and the ones she makes are bad and

146
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,640
Speaker 12: like this where she's now regretting. I guess would be

147
00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:38,000
Speaker 12: the term. But she still hasn't connect that decision with

148
00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,240
Speaker 12: the outcome of it and the results of it. It

149
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,559
Speaker 12: may take the twenty five year sentence to really reach

150
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:46,640
Speaker 12: her in that depth of.

151
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:59,720
Speaker 1: Elevel crime stories with Nancy Grace joining me now in

152
00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:04,720
Speaker 1: this to high profile lawyer Mark Pepper, Dave Mack, Kimberly Cockrell,

153
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,080
Speaker 1: and doctor Jory crawlsen Is Tom Smith. You know him well,

154
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:14,040
Speaker 1: Former NYPD detective co host gold Shields podcast, Tom Smith.

155
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:21,800
Speaker 1: I've had about a snoopful with Jamie Komarowski. Forget about

156
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,440
Speaker 1: the top. That's more bread than sack. Okay, I don't care.

157
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,720
Speaker 1: But what I do care about is sir lying in court.

158
00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:34,200
Speaker 1: She actually lied, Tom, She said, I've never been in

159
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,319
Speaker 1: trouble before. Well that's bs because she's had three priors.

160
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:43,079
Speaker 1: They're listed as speedings. But Evan, it suggests there do

161
00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:48,040
Speaker 1: UIs and it's been sealed. This woman is a walking

162
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,719
Speaker 1: crime let or. And she goes in front of the judge.

163
00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,360
Speaker 1: Was all of that and lied?

164
00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:55,160
Speaker 13: Yep?

165
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:56,640
Speaker 9: And just look at all the pictures.

166
00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,079
Speaker 4: Every picture you just showed has something in her hand

167
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,079
Speaker 4: at an event or something like that.

168
00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,880
Speaker 1: Well, you're right, you're right, Tom Smith. How could I

169
00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:12,000
Speaker 1: ignore evidence? And every photo she's around some booze. There

170
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,880
Speaker 1: she is with a solo cup. I guarantee you that

171
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,800
Speaker 1: ain't hot tea. You're right, Tom, Yeah.

172
00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:22,800
Speaker 4: And you know that goes to the premeditation of making

173
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,640
Speaker 4: a bad decision. She's made them before. This is just

174
00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,000
Speaker 4: the first time something bad happened, so she always thought

175
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,880
Speaker 4: she could get away with it. And that's why it's

176
00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,719
Speaker 4: so important, Nancy, and you know this. That's why it's

177
00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,680
Speaker 4: so important for investigators and police and detectives to show

178
00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,880
Speaker 4: up to the scene and do every single thing correctly,

179
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,559
Speaker 4: so there's no technicalities of her getting away with anything.

180
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,720
Speaker 1: Is it not bothering you? Mark? There she is in

181
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,160
Speaker 1: kind of a I don't know, an ad or promo

182
00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:59,199
Speaker 1: for bud Beer. Is it not bothering you? Mark Pepper

183
00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:04,280
Speaker 1: that an every shot is alcohol related or she's drinking

184
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,480
Speaker 1: and smiling. I mean the entitlement.

185
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,720
Speaker 10: What bothers me the most is that as a criminal

186
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,400
Speaker 10: defense lawyer, when you see these pictures plastered all over Facebook,

187
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,880
Speaker 10: trial is no longer an option. Even if you think

188
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,640
Speaker 10: you have the ability to convince a jury of reasonable

189
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,200
Speaker 10: doubt regarding the facts, Once these pictures come in and

190
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,040
Speaker 10: it paints the picture of who this defendant was, your

191
00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,320
Speaker 10: options are pretty limited. She clearly and look, we all

192
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,960
Speaker 10: went to college, most of us. We all had a

193
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,480
Speaker 10: good time and maybe into our young twenties. But if

194
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,280
Speaker 10: every single picture that's going to be shown to the

195
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:45,360
Speaker 10: jury involves a solo cup, if not an actual alcoholic beverage,

196
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,760
Speaker 10: and you're dressed the way you are, it paints a

197
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,640
Speaker 10: picture to the jury without you even having the ability

198
00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,480
Speaker 10: to rehabilitate yourself on the stand. So that's what bothers

199
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,120
Speaker 10: me the most of all of this is that it

200
00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:01,440
Speaker 10: takes one huge option for the defense team and puts

201
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,440
Speaker 10: it completely out the window, leaving her no choice but

202
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,600
Speaker 10: to plead guilty. Anytime you go into a case where

203
00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,000
Speaker 10: you only have one choice, it's not the best case.

204
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, for this woman, I bring in in another strength.

205
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,160
Speaker 1: Forensic psychologist doctor Sherry Schwartz listen.

206
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,120
Speaker 14: Hearing about that particular post with Bud light Year. What

207
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 14: this tells me is this is someone who has incorporated

208
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,760
Speaker 14: as part of her identity the humor in having this

209
00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:31,200
Speaker 14: relationship with alcohol, a clearly unhealthy relationship, and as someone

210
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,840
Speaker 14: who has previously been in legal trouble with a DUI,

211
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,560
Speaker 14: she's savvy enough to say, I'm not going to blow

212
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,079
Speaker 14: into a breathalyzer, which tells me that she had consciousness

213
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:43,840
Speaker 14: of mind to know that she shouldn't be driving.

214
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,680
Speaker 1: And in the last hours, the runt driver, Jamie Lee Komarowski,

215
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:54,760
Speaker 1: who killed a bride on her wedding night, makes an

216
00:13:54,840 --> 00:14:01,000
Speaker 1: outrageous demand. Believe it or not, Just after the sentence,

217
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:06,679
Speaker 1: Kamarowski insists that the judge reduce her sentence. That's right.

218
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,319
Speaker 1: Jamie Lee Kamarowski, ordered to spend twenty five years behind bars,

219
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:15,880
Speaker 1: now insists that the sentence was too stringent.

220
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,880
Speaker 15: They did the Sparkler exit where everybody lines up in

221
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 15: like Sparkler's and they go underneath. She's the happiest I've

222
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,400
Speaker 15: ever seen her in her life. They got on the

223
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:26,880
Speaker 15: golf cart.

224
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:27,520
Speaker 6: They left.

225
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,480
Speaker 15: Ten minutes later. We went to our airbnb, which was

226
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,960
Speaker 15: before theirs, so they were still traveling. I started hearing

227
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,160
Speaker 15: sirens and literally I looked at my daughter and I said,

228
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 15: something happened to Sam. I knew something that happened to Sam.

229
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,040
Speaker 1: You are hearing Sam's mom, Lisa Miller, telling me about

230
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,960
Speaker 1: the night of the crash. She's about to join us live,

231
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,000
Speaker 1: but I wanted to hear what else she told me.

232
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,000
Speaker 15: I called Sam and apologized calling her on her wedding night,

233
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,480
Speaker 15: but she called me back and let me know she

234
00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,520
Speaker 15: was okay, and then the family memory get the truck,

235
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,680
Speaker 15: and so me and my daughter got in the truck

236
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,920
Speaker 15: and she took us to the scene, which was maybe

237
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,080
Speaker 15: a mile away, not even two blocks from where they

238
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,200
Speaker 15: were going to stay. Me and my daughter got out

239
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,360
Speaker 15: of the truck and just started running hand in hand

240
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:19,320
Speaker 15: towards the scene and just screaming, Tam, Tam, tam. I

241
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,560
Speaker 15: heard that was there and my son waiting at the

242
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,400
Speaker 15: scene and trying to figure out what was going on.

243
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,880
Speaker 15: And we were told by somebody I don't know who

244
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,800
Speaker 15: that everybody had been taken to the hospital, and so

245
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:30,760
Speaker 15: my daughter and I went to the hospital.

246
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,160
Speaker 1: Joining us now is a very special guest who I

247
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:40,560
Speaker 1: consider a friend. This is Samantha's mother, Lisa Miller. Miss Miller,

248
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:41,640
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.

249
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,240
Speaker 16: Sure, thank you for having me.

250
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:50,960
Speaker 1: Miss Miller. I've thought about you so many times since

251
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:57,320
Speaker 1: we last spoke, and you have been through hell. Is

252
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,560
Speaker 1: it any better after sentence?

253
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:07,320
Speaker 16: If it's supposed to be, it's not yet. I mean,

254
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,920
Speaker 16: I'm glad that she got the max time, for sure,

255
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,000
Speaker 16: because we have the rest of our lives to deal

256
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:21,560
Speaker 16: with this tragedy. We were sitting to life so twenty

257
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,480
Speaker 16: five years. She still got off pretty easy. People say

258
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:29,600
Speaker 16: that justice for Samantha, and yes, the girl got the

259
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,400
Speaker 16: most time, but that doesn't take.

260
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:33,960
Speaker 9: Away the pain.

261
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,600
Speaker 16: It doesn't take away the heart aching for your daughter,

262
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,800
Speaker 16: the part of you as a mom that dies, that's

263
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:44,760
Speaker 16: all still there.

264
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:50,960
Speaker 1: You know, miss Miller. With every little injury, every little cut,

265
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:57,240
Speaker 1: every little heartache that your child goes through. Sometimes I think, Lisa,

266
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:02,720
Speaker 1: that the mother feels at ten times over. I still

267
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:09,880
Speaker 1: relive hurts or disappointments that my twins had when they

268
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:14,720
Speaker 1: were itty bitty. I remember them and how I've said

269
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,159
Speaker 1: I would before them. Long after they've moved on, you know,

270
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:22,080
Speaker 1: I remember that, And I've just just been thinking about

271
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:28,639
Speaker 1: you so much. And what was it like in that courtroom?

272
00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:30,080
Speaker 6: I couldn't wait to leave.

273
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:34,320
Speaker 9: Tensions were high.

274
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:39,919
Speaker 16: I think it's just a very heavy, dark atmosphere, and

275
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,480
Speaker 16: everybody feels it. Everybody that's there feels it.

276
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:51,639
Speaker 1: When you saw Jamie Lee Kumarowski in the courtroom, what

277
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 1: went through your mind?

278
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:58,359
Speaker 16: I understand that I'm supposed to and what happens to

279
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 16: a lot of people whose children or friends or parents

280
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,520
Speaker 16: or get killed by drunk drivers that I'm supposed to

281
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,679
Speaker 16: hate her for whatever reason. I think we had so

282
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:14,000
Speaker 16: much other things thrown at us. I do not think

283
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:18,520
Speaker 16: about this girl. I didn't want to do bad things

284
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,040
Speaker 16: to this girl, you know. And maybe it's because what

285
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,359
Speaker 16: I've done for a living for the past twenty years.

286
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,720
Speaker 16: I'm a drug and alcohol counselor. And she made some

287
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,679
Speaker 16: really bad choices. She didn't wake up that morning and

288
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,640
Speaker 16: say I'm going to kill Sam. It wasn't a personal thing.

289
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,119
Speaker 16: Did her choices result in the death of my daughter

290
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,919
Speaker 16: that's killing me every single day? Yes, obviously I'm not

291
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,400
Speaker 16: her biggest fan, and thank god that she's going to

292
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,040
Speaker 16: spend a very large portion of her life having a

293
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:53,959
Speaker 16: lot of time to think about what she did in

294
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,800
Speaker 16: her poor decisions and the fact that to get any treatment.

295
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 1: When you said you don't hate her, I know exactly

296
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,439
Speaker 1: how you feel. The day I saw the man that

297
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,720
Speaker 1: murdered my fiance in court, I was numb and to

298
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,920
Speaker 1: this day I still don't hate him. I don't care

299
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:22,119
Speaker 1: anything about him. It's right. Yeah, more pain and the

300
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,880
Speaker 1: hurt is what I felt and feel over that. Mark

301
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,160
Speaker 1: Pepper joining us high profile lawyer out of this jurisdiction.

302
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,040
Speaker 1: Part of the rules of the road are that you

303
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,200
Speaker 1: don't have a right to drive, it's a privilege. So

304
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:42,119
Speaker 1: when you are pulled over, you are supposed to, if asked,

305
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,000
Speaker 1: if directed, submit to a breathalyzer, and if you don't,

306
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 1: that in itself is a violation of the law.

307
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 10: It is, and it suspends your driving privileges for six months.

308
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,119
Speaker 10: We don't have actual breathalyzers on the scene. What she

309
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 10: was asked to do was to perform field sobriety tests,

310
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 10: which you are allowed to decline here. Then if proble

311
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 10: will cause exists, as it did here, you're taken to

312
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 10: a hospital to be checked out, you're taken to a jail,

313
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 10: and at that point you're administered the BA test. She's

314
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,399
Speaker 10: within her right to decline it. It does come with consequences, though, Nancy,

315
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 10: as you pointed out, in our state, when you sign

316
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 10: up to be a licensed driver in South Carolina, you

317
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 10: acquiesce to give a blood excuse me, a breathalyzer analysis

318
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,080
Speaker 10: test at any point in time. If you decline it,

319
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 10: such as she did here, you automatically lose your license

320
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 10: for it six months.

321
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 9: It's a choice she made so.

322
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: She to refuse to take the BAC. The breath analyzer.

323
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 1: She knew enough to know she was drunk when she

324
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,240
Speaker 1: stood up and correct me if I'm wrong, Dave Mac.

325
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 1: When she got out of the car for police, she

326
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:58,399
Speaker 1: immediately fell down drunk. They could smell herb You know,

327
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 1: I've Dave with so many duys and HIV habitual violators

328
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 1: that actually come to court drunk. And it's not their breaths,

329
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: their skin, they actually smell like alcohol. Their body stinks.

330
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 1: And she was so out of it she thought she

331
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 1: had been hit. But what you've got to hear who

332
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 1: she blames Listen, And.

333
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,120
Speaker 6: It was a golf car.

334
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,959
Speaker 1: I know, honey, we know, honey.

335
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,920
Speaker 6: The freaking road and this couldn't happen to anyone, Like.

336
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 13: Why Like why.

337
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 6: Why me? I don't understand, like this could have happened

338
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 6: so many other people.

339
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,159
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, she lied to police, she

340
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,439
Speaker 1: lied in court, and in my mind, still got a

341
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 1: lenient sentence. She could have been looking at twenty five

342
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: plus fifteen thirty five forty plus ten fifty years behind bars.

343
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,199
Speaker 1: She got twenty five, which I think is like you know,

344
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: going to kmart and getting a two for one special.

345
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 1: That said, she's blaming the victim. For being in a

346
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 1: golf cart Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm gonna go

347
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 1: straight back out to Lisa Miller, Samantha's mother, that night

348
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 1: from leaving Sam's beautiful wedding. I remember what you told

349
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: me that you heard sirens and you knew, you knew,

350
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 1: and you said something's happened to Sam.

351
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 16: Yep, I knew it, And I mean I know this.

352
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 9: I'ds weird, but even back.

353
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,640
Speaker 6: Thirty five years ago.

354
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 16: I guess when you know I became pregnant with her.

355
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 16: I was at the beach, you know, I was young

356
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 16: on the way home from the beach that I said

357
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 16: to my girlfriend, watched me be pregnant. I'm like Sam

358
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 16: and I have always been. It's weird, just really, really

359
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 16: really the connection. And I think a mom in general

360
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 16: is so connected to her kids. I think that I've

361
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 16: done some research and scientifically, when the child comes out

362
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 16: of you, there areselves that are left inside of you.

363
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 9: I can tell you I hurt.

364
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 16: But I'm missing too. It's more like I'm not me anymore.

365
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 16: A giganic part of me is it's gone with Sam,

366
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 16: and I feel like I'm half a person. I go

367
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 16: back and look at pictures even pictures of me, and

368
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 16: I'm like, where's that person, where's that smile, where's that positivity?

369
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 16: Which I still try, you know, I'm getting some back.

370
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 16: But I think that's just like mislow amputated my leg.

371
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 13: You know.

372
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 16: I think that's what it's like, is that you have

373
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 16: to learn to live your life moving forward without these parts.

374
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 16: And that's about the closest thing I could kind of

375
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 16: relate it to. It's just literally losing some parts of

376
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 16: your body. And what people do when they, you know,

377
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 16: they get something amputated, you know, they're never going to

378
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 16: be the same. They have to learn how to live

379
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 16: without those parts. And so that's what we're working on.

380
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: That's really interesting what you're saying, miss Miller. I've had

381
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: people say you had a total personality change after Keith

382
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: was murdered. I don't even remember that girl, that girl

383
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: they say I used to be. I don't even remember

384
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: what that was. But they all separated in time and space,

385
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: say you're not even the same person you used to be,

386
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 1: And I can explain. I cannot explain that. I've compared

387
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: it to people talk about closure. That's total bs. There's

388
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: no such thing. There's no such thing I've talked about,

389
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: how maybe it's like you break your arm and you

390
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: never get it set, but you go on to learn

391
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 1: to flip a pancake. It's never the same, but you

392
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: managed to, as you say, with an amputato leg, you

393
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: manage to find a way to walk. But it's never

394
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: the same.

395
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 16: You're not the same.

396
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: And in the last hours, Kamaraski's lawyers in court showing

397
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: quote unequivocal acceptance of responsibility for her actions and therefore,

398
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: because of her quote genuine expressions of remorse, her sentence

399
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 1: should be slashed.

400
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 3: So today tomorrow fire my love a Serfore.

401
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 1: You can learn from our friends at ABC seven. That

402
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 1: is the groom who suffered bleeding to the brain and massive,

403
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: massive internal trauma MANI broken bones, Eric Cutchinson stating I

404
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: will love you today, tomorrow and every day until I

405
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 1: take my last breath on this earth. I was supposed

406
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: to have her before you killed her. And throughout this

407
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 1: the dy booze after a booze field day of bar hopping,

408
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 1: lies to police that she had one beer of one tequila,

409
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: falls down, drunk, stinks to high heaven. Here is the

410
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 1: dui driver, whining and complaining because her grandparents are taking

411
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: care of her cat.

412
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 14: Okay, well, okay, here's her thing, here's.

413
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 13: My cat.

414
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 15: Hang on, you need a reality check real quick right now, girl,

415
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 15: that's not your cat right now, because you left that

416
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 15: guy in an unfortunate situation and they're taking care of

417
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 15: the cat.

418
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 13: Now.

419
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 12: So that's trillion, that's my cat.

420
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 6: I'm not going to be any here forever.

421
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 15: I'm kidding.

422
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 6: I'm going to be like a couple of months and

423
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 6: then I'm going to be back cold.

424
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 13: Wow.

425
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: Martin Pepper, high profile lawyer in this jurisdiction. On another

426
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: jail call, she states, I will be living my quote

427
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: best life in less than two years out of here. Whipsie.

428
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 13: Yeah.

429
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 10: No, She's going to be living a really, really well

430
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 10: deserved rough life in the South Kinna Department of Corrections

431
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 10: for at least the next twenty to twenty one years,

432
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 10: with credit for time serve given yesterday, which is exactly

433
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 10: where she should be.

434
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 15: Uh.

435
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 9: Don't forget, Nancy that this judge could have given her

436
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 9: a minimum of one year.

437
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 10: That's what our statute allows, one to twenty five years,

438
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 10: twenty five years along with the fifteen and ten runking.

439
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 10: I know that you'll disagree, which I respect. But when

440
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 10: we talk about the sentencing rules of the road, rehabilitation,

441
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 10: deterrence removal, I think Judge Jefferson chose five years.

442
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 9: That's what the all allows for.

443
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: She's already had three. We think DUIs to rehabilitate. She

444
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 1: is no more rehabilitated than.

445
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 13: The man in the moon? Are you?

446
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,199
Speaker 1: I can't believe you actually said that rehabilitate.

447
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 9: Get rehabilitated in two years.

448
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 10: Well, allegedly first to you, I believe that that it

449
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 10: was dismissed, uh and a reckless driving tickets gone.

450
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 9: But twenty five years, you're removing the.

451
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: Individual from I was dismissed.

452
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 10: Well, the initial one that's been alleged to occurred, I

453
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 10: believe was a reckless driving.

454
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: Nonetheless, Nancy d was dismissed such to bring that time,

455
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: and then after that there were two mores and two

456
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: more and now Samantha is dead. You know the degree

457
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: of entitlement of this woman to Sam's mom, Lisa, what

458
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: about it?

459
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 15: I think that what we have here is a young

460
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 15: lady that has been bailed out because her family has money,

461
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 15: and has not been held accountable for any of her

462
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 15: poor choices. And when you continue to bail somebody out,

463
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 15: they're never going to learn. And she has not suffered

464
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 15: any consequences, so she continues the same behavior. And unfortunately

465
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 15: it happens a lot and a lot of my patients.

466
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 15: They've been enabled and their parents take care of everything

467
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 15: and fix it and trying to protect them, but they're

468
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 15: not really protecting them because now my daughter's dead.

469
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: Now to Kimberly Cockrail joining us from Columbia, South Carolina.

470
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: Victim services manager at mad Mothers against driving. Kimberly. So

471
00:29:54,640 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: often I see people, including the dui driver themselves, act

472
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: like it was all just it's a misunderstanding. You know,

473
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: I had a couple of drinks. This really happened to me.

474
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: I didn't do anything wrong. And that's what we're seeing here.

475
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: And Lisa Sam's mother is saying that she has been

476
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: bailed out. We just heard Mark Pepper say that the

477
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: original dui charges we think were dismissed. There have been

478
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: three priors, three prior incidents, and now this. I don't

479
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: like it when dui crashes or referred to as accidents,

480
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: it's not an accident. Kimberly, can you explain why the.

481
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 8: Word accident is something that grates on my nerves so

482
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 8: much when it comes to DUI crashes. I lost my

483
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 8: best friend twenty three years ago, almost And if I

484
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 8: hear the word accident one more time when it refers

485
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 8: to one of these, that was not an accident. An

486
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 8: accident as a child runs out into a street after

487
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 8: a ball and you're not drunk, you're not on your

488
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 8: phone phone, you're not looking down messing with the radio. Accident,

489
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 8: You hit this child and you do everything you can

490
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 8: to stop. That is an accident. What this woman did

491
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 8: that night was no accident. She was egregiously drunk. She

492
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 8: made a choice. That choice took Samantha Miller's life. Samantha

493
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 8: Miller had so many things to look forward to in

494
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 8: her life, and mind you, one of them was getting

495
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 8: back home to her cat, who will never see her again.

496
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,479
Speaker 8: Listening to you her, listening to her talk about her

497
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 8: cat and how she's annoyed that her grandparents are taking

498
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 8: care of that.

499
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: Do you know that Lisa Miller would.

500
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 8: Give anything, anything for her daughter to actually hold her

501
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 8: cat again. These are not accidents, Nancy. These are crashes.

502
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 8: These are collisions, and they are choices made by these drivers.

503
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 6: And it was a golf car.

504
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: I know, honey, we know, honey.

505
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 6: On the freaking road. This is just gonna happen to anyone,

506
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 6: Like why me, why why? I don't understand like this

507
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 6: could have have to be so many other people.

508
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 13: Form there to go to alcohol rehab. Okay, right, okay,

509
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 13: that's part of it. Part right? How long is that?

510
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 13: Four to six weeks?

511
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 6: All right, well listen, if it helps the case, then

512
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 6: I'll do it.

513
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 17: Might help you a little too, sure, Well, yeah, you know,

514
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 17: so more information is coming out about what happened, So.

515
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 7: Your vac level.

516
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 13: Alcohol level?

517
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: Did I just see her roll her eyes? Feel so

518
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: bad for the father, Mark Pepper. The dad is sitting

519
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: there in his T shirt going, hey, honey, you know

520
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: you're going to have to go to alcohol rep rehab.

521
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: She's like, how long is that?

522
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 7: He goes?

523
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: Four to six weeks? And she goes, did you see that?

524
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: Should I believe you are my lion eyes because I

525
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: just saw that?

526
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 15: Yeah?

527
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 10: No, I saw it, And Nancy is you're probably aware

528
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 10: of My firm successfully sued the Sheriff's office to get

529
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 10: those jail tapes released on to have a local media outlet,

530
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 10: and it was sick to my stomach when I was

531
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 10: listening to all fifteen hours of those jail tips tapes.

532
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 10: Maybe sick both personally and professionally. On one hand, you

533
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 10: clearly can see this father trying to get her to

534
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 10: understand the reality the gravity of the situation that she's in,

535
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 10: and she's rolling her eyes. On the other hand, as

536
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 10: the criminal offense attorney, and you look at it and

537
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 10: you say, how in the world can we try this case?

538
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 10: A jury is going to hate her, and now we're

539
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 10: stuck with one option. We've got to plead her guilty.

540
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 10: Why it took so long to get to this point,

541
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 10: I don't know, But nonetheless I hope it gives the

542
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 10: family some closure to this tragedy.

543
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: Okay, you know, just because you went through so much,

544
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: and I want to thank you for that.

545
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:22,479
Speaker 13: Mark.

546
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you're a veteran trial lawyer. I

547
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: know you're a high profile attorney in this jurisdiction. You

548
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: really went to bat so the truth could come out

549
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,919
Speaker 1: in this case. I really appreciate it because I've dealt

550
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: with so many defendants, so many and they act completely

551
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: differently in front of a jury than they do behind

552
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: closed doors, Like she is just using her dad up.

553
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: If I could just have my dad back for five minutes,

554
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: And the way she's treating her family, her father, the

555
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: poor guy's just trying to keep his daughter out of jail.

556
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: He's doing anything. I guarantee you had a hand in

557
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 1: getting your eye of those last three incidents. It makes

558
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 1: me wonder when she says he says more is coming

559
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: out about what happens you go such as it makes

560
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: me wonder if there's more to it than I even know.

561
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 10: There are multiple layers to that onion, all of which

562
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 10: at the core of it is a woman girl that

563
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 10: Jess has no grasp on the reality of the situation,

564
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 10: the consequences of her action, the eye rolls, the sure

565
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 10: I mean, as a parent, to look in your daughter's

566
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 10: eyes knowing that she has just killed someone, maybe at

567
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 10: this point, maybe even multiple people. You're doing everything you

568
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 10: can to get her to understand the gravity of the situation,

569
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 10: the consequence of her action, the money that's being spent

570
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 10: on experts and lawyers that these parents, grandparents are spending.

571
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 10: And yet she sits there and simply acts it's just

572
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 10: any other day.

573
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 9: This was just a.

574
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 10: Tragedy all the way around. In my heart obviously goes

575
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 10: out to the Miller family and the Hutchison family.

576
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: To top it all off, we learn that the drunk

577
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: driver Homarowski is now insisting the sentence that she just

578
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: got me thrown out and that she get a lighter sentence.

579
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 1: Incredible and not in a good way. Joining me now

580
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: is doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner Terrant County. That's

581
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: Fort Worth Esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine

582
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: at TCU. Doctor Kendall crowns, I need you now because

583
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: all of our focus has been on the duy killer,

584
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: her sentence, what she did and didn't do in court,

585
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: what she did behind bars. I want to talk about

586
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 1: Samantha the bride, the bride who was ejected and thrown

587
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: one hundred yards in her wedding dress to her death.

588
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 1: What were her injuries? Doctor Kendall crowns.

589
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 18: Her injuries would be very comparable to her husband's injuries.

590
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 18: With the multiple extremity fractures, the head injury, and the

591
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 18: rate of speed that the golf car was hit at,

592
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 18: she probably would have had whiplash injury, cervical spine suspurations.

593
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 18: Combined with that internal images of the brain, possible effectors

594
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 18: of the ribs and choos in flabrations of lungs, hearts,

595
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 18: and other internal.

596
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: Organ duntor crowns. I'm just trying to imagine what the

597
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: impact must have been because there were no skid marks.

598
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: I think she may have hit the brakes one time.

599
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: But this crash, I can't even make out what that is.

600
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: The car is just a jumble and the bride was

601
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: thrown one hundred yards plus. I mean, would she have

602
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: died upon impact.

603
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 18: It's possible that she could have dined on impact because

604
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 18: the car is coming at such a high rate of

605
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 18: speed and striking a golf cart which has a very

606
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 18: little crumpled zone, very little protection for the occupants. And

607
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 18: the fact she threw one hundred yards means that the

608
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 18: decedent was shot out of the vehicle at a high

609
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 18: rate of speed and then, depending on how much she weighs,

610
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 18: is able to go one hundred yards. So the accident

611
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 18: self gave her initial velocity that made her basically into

612
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 18: a meat missile that flew through the air until she

613
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 18: came to rest one hundred yards later. Odds are she's

614
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 18: dead on impact, but you would really have to look

615
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 18: at the injuries. My theory is she's probably got massive

616
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 18: skull fractures, massive cervical spine fractures, probably killed her instantly

617
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 18: and then flung her body one hundred yards.

618
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crown's. What about the groom Eric, because he

619
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: is apparently still undergoing rehab. What were his injuries?

620
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 18: So he has fractures of his legs, he has of

621
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 18: his I believe his ribs. He also had skull fractures.

622
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 18: He had traumatic brain injury, which means basically had hemorrhage

623
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 18: in his brain or bleeding his brains from the course

624
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 18: of impact. And so all those injuries, especially the brain injuries,

625
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 18: he's probably has to relearn how to walk, probably relearn

626
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 18: how to talk, and any number of things that go

627
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 18: along with brain injuries. And he'll have pain from the

628
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 18: fractures and other issues from the brain injuries for the

629
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 18: rest of his.

630
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: Life, Doctor Crowns. We know that Samantha was thrown from

631
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 1: the wreck one hundred yards declared dead at the same

632
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: the groom Eric Hutchinson two broken legs, broken bones in

633
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: his face, and a brain injury. Yet Jamie Kumrowski is uninjured,

634
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 1: completely uninjured How does that happen?

635
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 18: Doctor, Yeah, so that's always fascinating to me. Have seen

636
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 18: these dui type collisions throughout my career, and it's always

637
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 18: the person that's hit by the drunk driver. They gets

638
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 18: killed and the drunk driver, for whatever reason, has very

639
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 18: little to no injuries. It could be that she was

640
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 18: seat belted. It could be the fact that her car

641
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 18: was heavier than the golf cart. It took a lot

642
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 18: less impact damage from the golf cart, because you know,

643
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 18: when you hit a human being, you don't usually have

644
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 18: injuries to the car itself because the car is like

645
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 18: a tank. There's other theories that the drunk person is

646
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 18: more relaxed and then on impact, they just don't get

647
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 18: the injuries you see with people that are bracing for impact.

648
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: Doctor Crown's Sam's father had to identify her from her tattoo.

649
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: That was the only way he could identify her. What

650
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: does that tell you?

651
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 18: She had so much facial and head trauma that her

652
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 18: actual head was not identifiable. So she could have had

653
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 18: massive skull fractures that cause tearing up her facial and

654
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 18: distorting her facial features. Her tag could have been so

655
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 18: pressed that you just couldn't make out her face.

656
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 1: All of this because of a drunk driving and it

657
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: was by far not the first time for this woman.

658
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: Our prayers tonight with Samantha's groom Eric and her family.

659
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,