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Speaker 1: Welcome to today's edition of The Clay Travis and Buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton Show podcast. Welcome and everybody to The Clay Travis

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Speaker 1: and Buck Sexton Show on this Thursday, May twenty six.

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Speaker 1: We have many things to discuss with you today. We

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Speaker 1: will be joined later on in the program by Senith

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Speaker 1: Kennedy Moe Brooks. We'll be talking to him about what

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Speaker 1: he saw in the elections the Primaria this week and

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Speaker 1: what he thinks going forward the midterms are looking like

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Speaker 1: for the goop. We've also got I would think a

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Speaker 1: fair case to make for the worst Obama tweet I've

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Speaker 1: ever seen, I mean, the most tone deaf, the most

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Speaker 1: honestly enraging Obama tweet I have ever seen. We'll discuss

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Speaker 1: that it ties into the two year George Floyd anniversary

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Speaker 1: which is coming up I suppose this week, I think

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Speaker 1: it's coming up here. We'll discuss that with you, and

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Speaker 1: then also just more of these videos of what's going

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Speaker 1: on here in New York City where you have continued

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Speaker 1: just day to day violence, including with obviously insane people

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Speaker 1: who are just terrorizing everyday folks on the subways, and

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Speaker 1: the new mayor of New York wants you to know that, oh,

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Speaker 1: he's on it, but doesn't feel like it for those

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Speaker 1: who live here. We'll discuss that. But now, Clayton, I

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Speaker 1: got to dive into this. The single biggest conversation the

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Speaker 1: whole country right now is, of course, the continued discussion,

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Speaker 1: the grieving, the shock that we all feel in the

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Speaker 1: aftermath of the shooting in Uvalde, Texas. But right now

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Speaker 1: the component of this as we're trying to pull the

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Speaker 1: pieces together, the pieces of our souls and then the

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Speaker 1: pieces of this story so we can understand what happened

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Speaker 1: and take necessar sary actions going forward to prevent this

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Speaker 1: kind of thing to the greatest degree possible. The law

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Speaker 1: enforcement response to this, and I want to be very clear,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm very supportive of law enforcement. I have

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Speaker 1: worked myself in law enforcement. I have career law enforcement

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Speaker 1: of my family. Law enforcement response is drawing a lot

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Speaker 1: of questions right now, clay Here's what we know as

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Speaker 1: of basically the last twelve to eighteen hours based on

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Speaker 1: the press conferences. The shooter was confronted by an armed

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Speaker 1: school resource officer. We don't know what confrontation means, and

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Speaker 1: we'll get into what that possibility is made his way

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Speaker 1: into the school, got past the resource officer, barricaded himself

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Speaker 1: in a classroom, went on a mass murder spree of

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Speaker 1: children and of course the two adults as well in

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Speaker 1: this just gut punch horrific situation for the whole country.

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Speaker 1: And law enforcement was outside forming a perimeter for at

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Speaker 1: least an hour, some are saying an hour and a half.

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Speaker 1: And now there's video of parents clay begging law enforcement

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Speaker 1: to do something. You have an active shooter in a

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Speaker 1: school and you have parents crying and some even some

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Speaker 1: of the cops have tasers ready in case they have

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Speaker 1: to taste parents. I know they'd say for their own safety,

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Speaker 1: but to stop them from rushing into the school. They

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Speaker 1: are begging cops to run into the building, and we're

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Speaker 1: told that they couldn't get a key to get into

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Speaker 1: the classroom. This is a if this is what happened,

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Speaker 1: it is a failure, and we have to look at

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Speaker 1: this and be honest about the law enforcement response. Yeah, Buck,

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Speaker 1: big picture, it's hard to discuss ways to make school

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Speaker 1: safer if you don't understand the facts of what happened

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Speaker 1: in this particular school shooting. And so I have so

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Speaker 1: many questions and I'll run through several of them right now.

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Speaker 1: And we need answers. I mean, it's now been what

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Speaker 1: several days that there could have been an explanation for

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Speaker 1: exactly what went on. First of all, the confrontation statement,

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Speaker 1: what does that consist of? You have an armed school

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Speaker 1: security official. They say that he confronted this shooter who

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Speaker 1: was trying to get into the school. What does a

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Speaker 1: confrontation mean? Did he approach him? Did he was the

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Speaker 1: gun hidden? Was there some way that he was not

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Speaker 1: aware of this being an armed individual? What occurred that

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Speaker 1: allowed this individual into the school in the first place?

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Speaker 1: Second part of this, how did this individual, this murderer

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Speaker 1: get into an individual classroom some of the details that

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Speaker 1: we know Buck evidently he had locked himself into this

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Speaker 1: classroom and there had to be a master key to

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Speaker 1: allow these officers to be able to get into the classroom. Well,

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Speaker 1: how did he get into this individual classroom in the

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Speaker 1: first place? Was he allowed in? Did someone open the

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Speaker 1: door for him? Did he talk his way into the

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Speaker 1: school based on prior relationships with people involved in the school.

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Speaker 1: And let me give you an example for why I'm

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Speaker 1: breaking it down this way. I think about this every

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Speaker 1: day because I take my kids to and from school,

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Speaker 1: and I talked about this on the day of the shooting.

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Speaker 1: We have an armed security officer inside of our local

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Speaker 1: elementary school. There's only one way in through the front door.

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Speaker 1: You have to show security. They buzz you in and out.

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Speaker 1: I don't know all the protocols that are in place

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Speaker 1: in this uv all day school. But until we know

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Speaker 1: all these protocols and we know the answers to these

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Speaker 1: questions and then Buck, the thing that is chilling to

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Speaker 1: think about is from a parent's perspective, if you can

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Speaker 1: hear this man firing his weapon inside of the classroom,

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Speaker 1: it eliminates the argument that this is some sort of

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Speaker 1: a hostage situation. You have to presume that he is

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Speaker 1: shooting children. When those gunshots are going off over and

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Speaker 1: over and over again, how is the immediate response tactically

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Speaker 1: not to charge that classroom? Were there windows on this classroom?

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Speaker 1: Were there any way was there any way to shoot

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Speaker 1: out those windows to go in through them? I mean, Buck,

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Speaker 1: this is These are all real questions that the state

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Speaker 1: of Texas by now needs to start to answer. There

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Speaker 1: are a lot of these videos of parents saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: we'll charge that school ourselves. And you can imagine, Buck,

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Speaker 1: you don't have kids, but I know a lot of

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Speaker 1: people out there listening to us do. And if you

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Speaker 1: knew that there was an armed killer in a classroom

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Speaker 1: at the school that your kids go to, there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of parents that would show up with guns

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Speaker 1: and be willing to charge that school themselves. Why were

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Speaker 1: these police officers not doing it? We have to look

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Speaker 1: at because and we said we would, we would have

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Speaker 1: the we would have the adult conversation on our side.

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Speaker 1: Put aside all the he bought the guns legally. Background

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Speaker 1: checks would have done absolutely nothing. There's nothing that I've

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Speaker 1: seen yet that could have stopped this from happening. From yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's it's completely The gun control stuff is emotional impulse

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Speaker 1: from unstable libs running around freaking out like Beto o'rouric,

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Speaker 1: screaming of people. Wouldn't have done a thing, not going

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Speaker 1: to change anything. That's just political attacks against the other side. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now we talk security on our side, because we will

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Speaker 1: have this conversation on the right. We discussed it right away.

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Speaker 1: It seems that this that this school did have security

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Speaker 1: procedures in place that conservatives often talk about armed resource officer,

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Speaker 1: automatic locks on the doors, limited points of entry, those

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Speaker 1: clearly didn't They obviously didn't stop the situation. There's the

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Speaker 1: possibility that as we look at this now, in this case,

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Speaker 1: some of that might have actually, specifically the limitations for

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Speaker 1: entry and automatic locks might have made this worse. And

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Speaker 1: because the police are claiming they couldn't get access to

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Speaker 1: the classroom, I mean, think about this. That must be

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Speaker 1: a pretty serious door with a pretty heavy duty lock

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Speaker 1: on it, you would think. And now, I know, this

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Speaker 1: isn't a big city where they have you know, lots

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Speaker 1: of tactical teams, you know, emergency emergency teams like they

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Speaker 1: have in New York, in Los Angeles, Chicago, but they

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Speaker 1: did have over a hundred officers on the scene saying

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Speaker 1: that we can't get the key to get into the door,

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Speaker 1: which is what the official I shouldn't I'm sorry, not

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Speaker 1: official that has been told to the press by law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: but not officially yet. But assuming that that is true,

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Speaker 1: that is a completely unacceptable circumstance from a security review

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Speaker 1: point and point of view. I mean, there's just no

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Speaker 1: way that we can say there's an active shooter situation.

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Speaker 1: We have a hundred cops gathered. Thank god, the Border

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Speaker 1: Patrol board tack team, which is essentially a squat team,

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Speaker 1: it's basically Borders squat was there and they went in.

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Speaker 1: They got in the stack. They had a guy with

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Speaker 1: a ballistic shield. You know, at some point you say, though,

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Speaker 1: how could they sit outside? It finds me the Pulse

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Speaker 1: nightclub shooting, where there was a lot of after action

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Speaker 1: discussion of this two Clay the shooter Omar Matine. In

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Speaker 1: that case, I think I think he killed forty people.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing this for memory. I think it was about

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Speaker 1: forty people he murdered in that nightclub. He was going

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Speaker 1: around shooting people. They were hearing the gunshots. There were

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Speaker 1: tactical teams on site. Within minutes, they set up a

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Speaker 1: perimeter and they said they were scared he might have

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Speaker 1: planted a bomb. While they were scared he might have

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Speaker 1: planted a bomb. He was walking around executing people. We

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Speaker 1: saw the same thing happen at Parkland. To my recollection,

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Speaker 1: which is the shooter at Parkland, there were police on

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Speaker 1: the scene that did not confront the shooter, and there's

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Speaker 1: been a massive investigation into the police response to that shooting.

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Speaker 1: So look, I mean, this is why we need the details.

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Speaker 1: It's possible, I hate to say it, it's possible somebody

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Speaker 1: didn't know where the master key was, right, Like, you're panicked.

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Speaker 1: Somebody doesn't know where they keep the master key. But

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Speaker 1: you would think in terms of being able to access

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Speaker 1: that classroom that evidently the shooter was locked in, but

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Speaker 1: you would think, Buck, there are windows that would have

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Speaker 1: provided an entry way point. And again, I just come

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Speaker 1: back to when you are in a school and there

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Speaker 1: is a crazy person with a gun that you can

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Speaker 1: hear firing. He's he's in there murdering children. Well, situation,

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Speaker 1: he's not. He doesn't have a list of demands to

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Speaker 1: release some political prisoners somewhere else. This guy's trying to

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Speaker 1: kill as many people as possible. Every minute wasted of

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Speaker 1: response gives him a greater opportunity to murder more children. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and you mean, look, we're not going to play. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: it was haunting. You saw, you heard and saw those videos, right, Clay,

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Speaker 1: I mean the parents on the perimeter, yes, begging cops.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine being in that situation. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what what are what? I mean? It was honestly, it

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Speaker 1: was really, It's so upsetting and watching it this morning.

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Speaker 1: What do you what do you tell those parents? Now,

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Speaker 1: what do you tell them that that's why the state

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Speaker 1: of Texas os a full accounting right now of what

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Speaker 1: went into because look, until you know all the facts

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Speaker 1: behind this shooting, all of the talk about oh, we

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Speaker 1: have to do X, or we have to do why,

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Speaker 1: it's possible this was a cataclysmic failure on every level.

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Speaker 1: You have a school security guard confronting this guy. What's

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Speaker 1: a confrontation entail? How did this guy get access to

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Speaker 1: a school? How did he then get access into because buck,

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Speaker 1: if the all of the police could not get into

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Speaker 1: this individual classroom, how did this shooter get into the individual?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's the possibility that he may

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Speaker 1: have We don't know now. Now now we're analyzing, and

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Speaker 1: this is the problem. When all the facts aren't out,

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Speaker 1: you have to try to make logical leaps because they

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Speaker 1: haven't given us the facts. I think it's possible that

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Speaker 1: he might have talked his way past the school resource officer,

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Speaker 1: perhaps even you know, convinced somebody on the inside that

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Speaker 1: I've seen conflicting reporting. This is the problem. We don't

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Speaker 1: have all the details, but he I believe had some

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Speaker 1: tie to the school, either through his mother or his grandmother.

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Speaker 1: There was some maybe he had attended in the past.

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Speaker 1: I have to I have to check on those facts.

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Speaker 1: But even if you didn't, he might have said, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know my mom, He could have lied said my

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Speaker 1: mom as a teacher here or something like that. Because

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Speaker 1: all of the security procedures that were in place, and

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Speaker 1: they did, like we said, armed resource officer, automatic lockdown policy,

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Speaker 1: very rapid law enforcement response was completely insufficient here, completely insufficient.

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Speaker 1: And for this school resource officer who is armed, he's

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Speaker 1: not dead, right, So at some point, how do you

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Speaker 1: Your number one job when you are in the school

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Speaker 1: is to protect the school. That's why you're there, right.

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Speaker 1: We need to know what that confrontation that he had

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Speaker 1: or she had actually entailed, right, Like they keep saying

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Speaker 1: he confronted this shooter. If he drew his firearm and

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Speaker 1: used it, we would know that by now, so I

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Speaker 1: can assume that it was in front. It is like, hey,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing, Like, yeah, I'm going in to

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Speaker 1: go kill kids? Like okay, well, hey, like what are

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Speaker 1: you doing as the school as the school officer there?

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Speaker 1: That allows this guy in? I mean again, These are

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Speaker 1: the kinds of details that we need to know because

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Speaker 1: if there were protocols in place to respond to a

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Speaker 1: school shooting, it's possible that they all failed, and there

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Speaker 1: may have been three or four different failures in terms

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Speaker 1: of what occurred to allow this to happen. It's just

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Speaker 1: it's remarkable to even think about the possibility that there

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Speaker 1: were there were law enforcement trained there, ballistic vests, ballistic

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Speaker 1: shield Now we don't know how quickly the board tach

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Speaker 1: team got there, and the board tack team did do

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Speaker 1: its job and did end the threat. So credit to

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Speaker 1: them for rushing in there, taking rounds and doing what

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Speaker 1: they But there was a long time waiting. And look,

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Speaker 1: the idea also of setting up a perimeter is probably

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Speaker 1: predicated on trying to get the other kids inside of

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Speaker 1: the school out safely. But when you know that there

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Speaker 1: are guns shots going on in a classroom, I don't

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Speaker 1: understand how the number one response across the board isn't

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Speaker 1: we know what's happens in school shootings, isn't to store

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Speaker 1: class room immediately. I just feel like they've set up

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Speaker 1: this perimeter. You know, they could say anybody here. Veteran

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Speaker 1: a tactical experience hand them, you know, hand hand three

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Speaker 1: or four of them long guns. It'd be it would

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Speaker 1: have been a better outcome than waiting an hour, which

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Speaker 1: is what hand of them. You distract the shooter so

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Speaker 1: that he has to worry about being shot at, as

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Speaker 1: opposed to being able to focus on the people in

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Speaker 1: the classroom, right if you're attempting to go in after him.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm very by the way, if there's any

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Speaker 1: if there's anyone in this audience who has SWAT experience,

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Speaker 1: real tactical experience on law enforcement or on the military side, basically,

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Speaker 1: if you've ever trained and been in a stack and

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Speaker 1: done entry and egress from rooms in a close quarters

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Speaker 1: battle situation, let us know what we're missing here. Let

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Speaker 1: us know what should have happened. Maybe maybe there's some

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Speaker 1: elements of this that we need to bring into the discussion.

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Speaker 1: And so eight hundred two, ay two two, Because I know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we have a huge law enforcement audience at

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Speaker 1: a huge military audience here. A lot of people listening

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Speaker 1: to this know more about this, and I'm always honest

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Speaker 1: about this than the host do. So if you've got

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Speaker 1: something to add to this conversation, by all means, but

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Speaker 1: I look, if you haven't heard those videos, I think

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Speaker 1: if I'm not recommending you watch them because it's tough

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Speaker 1: to watch. But that's why we're just in shock this morning.

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Speaker 1: I mean another round of shock after the initial twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours of learning what happened here. We'll come back

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Speaker 1: and we'll discuss more folks. All right, look switching gears

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Speaker 1: No risk, high reward. He've talked about that this was evil.

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Speaker 1: The only thing evil is what he continues to do

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Speaker 1: to the people of the state. He says, this was unpredictable.

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Speaker 1: It was totally predictable, and I predict this will continue

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Speaker 1: to happen when you continue to have a governor who

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Speaker 1: will not stand up for the people of Texas. It

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Speaker 1: came to my hometown of Alpasopa, after twenty three people

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Speaker 1: were slaughtered. He said he was going to do something.

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Speaker 1: He did nothing. In fact, the only thing he did

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Speaker 1: was make it easier to buy a gun. The only

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Speaker 1: thing he did was make it easier to carry a

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Speaker 1: gun in public, and he bragged about the fact that

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Speaker 1: there would be no background check, no training, no vetting whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: That's Beto, who still to my knowledge, has not given

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Speaker 1: any indication of what could have been done to keep

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Speaker 1: this from happening. Everybody's running around screaming that there have

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Speaker 1: to be laws changed and everything else again until we

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Speaker 1: know the facts. In essence here, Buck, I haven't heard

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Speaker 1: anything about what would have changed that you could change

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Speaker 1: to keep this from happening. And I think that's why

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Speaker 1: we're focused to start the show today on the facts

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Speaker 1: and trying to figure out what they are of how

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Speaker 1: this shooting came to be, And we want to open

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Speaker 1: up phone lines. We're taking calls if you guys have

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Speaker 1: been out there, and I know a lot of you

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Speaker 1: have in situations like these, based on what you have

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Speaker 1: seen what went wrong here in terms of the response

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Speaker 1: once we knew that there was a shooter, what might

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Speaker 1: have gone wrong at the school, We want to take

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Speaker 1: your calls and discuss us. If you're still relying on

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Speaker 1: pound two five zero, say Clay and Buck and boom

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Speaker 1: Dial pound two five zero, say Clay and Buck. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the Clay and Buck Show. We are breaking

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Speaker 1: down for you all the latest information on the mass

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Speaker 1: shooting in Valve Day, Texas, this evil that occurred that

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Speaker 1: has shaken the nation, and we have to look at

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Speaker 1: what actually could have been done to have stopped or

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Speaker 1: or even mitigated this, and what procedures need to be

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Speaker 1: looked at, tactics, techniques and procedures. And one of the

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Speaker 1: great resources that we have in discussing these kinds of

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Speaker 1: tactical matters is the fact that this audience is full

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Speaker 1: of people with an incredible wealth of knowledge and experience

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Speaker 1: on these matters, military, military, special operations, elite law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: career law enforcement all over the country. And to that end, Clay,

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Speaker 1: we have experts lined up now who want to waigh

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Speaker 1: in on this and tell us based on the facts

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Speaker 1: what we have so far. Let's start with John in Miami, Florida,

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Speaker 1: who was a retired Miami PD SWAT commander. John. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for calling in. Good afternoon, gentlemen. John. What do you think?

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Speaker 1: What do you think about what happen down for us? Okay,

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Speaker 1: that was my career path pro police. Obviously, however, I

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Speaker 1: don't know all the facts yet. But if there was

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Speaker 1: armed security or better yet armed personnel police on the scene,

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Speaker 1: they needed to engage that individual immediately. Obviously he's got

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Speaker 1: a rifle, you know, he's a threat. You need to engage.

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Speaker 1: If he gets away from them, he goes into the

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Speaker 1: room or a classroom, break into the classroom, then you

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Speaker 1: cannot wait. SWAT typically has two ms. You can't wait

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Speaker 1: for SWAT. There. That's an active shooter situation for sure.

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Speaker 1: Deliberate action plan where you have time to plan, okay,

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Speaker 1: and an immediate action plan, which is that the active

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Speaker 1: shooter we have to respond and act immediately. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what the facts are yet. Okay, they're doing their investigation.

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Speaker 1: They should have had it out already. But you engage.

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Speaker 1: You got a gun in a badge, you're getting paid

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Speaker 1: the big bucks, the pension. You gotta go ahead and act.

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Speaker 1: This is this is game time. Now. Now is when

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Speaker 1: you got to earn your keep. And from your perspective, also,

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Speaker 1: obviously they know the gunshots are going on, so this

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Speaker 1: is not some sort of hostage situation. Right. How does

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Speaker 1: hearing gunfire from inside of the school from a swat

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Speaker 1: perspective also change your analysis in terms of making a decision.

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Speaker 1: It's a green light, sir. Let's say, for example, I

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Speaker 1: have a hostile situation which I've handled several Yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and theer we have to assemble the team,

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Speaker 1: bring in the HASTA negotiators so they can go ahead

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Speaker 1: and establish dialogue, kind of talk the guy down. But

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Speaker 1: there's a point in time. If he quits talking to you,

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Speaker 1: you gotta less than thirty seconds to go ahead and

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Speaker 1: break in because he's gonna kill himself or kill people there. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's a standard National Tactical Officers Association training. That's one

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Speaker 1: on one. If you hear gunfire, you gotta go. This

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Speaker 1: is no doubt what's going on? John, Go ahead, click. No.

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Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, is there any possibility that

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Speaker 1: you end up with a paralysis over who's in control

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Speaker 1: in a situation like this, when you have people responding

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Speaker 1: to a gun potential situation in a school, how does

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Speaker 1: the command structure potentially work? Listen, you typically have and

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Speaker 1: you know I did field operations, so obviously my thingless squat,

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Speaker 1: but I worked regular patrol for years. You're typically going

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Speaker 1: to have the supervisor respond asapple over there, but the

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00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 1: officers should have enough common sense go ahead, and whatever

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Speaker 1: happens okay on the scene there, you're gonna be the

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Speaker 1: eyes and ears for your sergeant and for the chain

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Speaker 1: of command and say this is what's going on. But

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Speaker 1: comes to a point where you have to act, you cannot.

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Speaker 1: That's where you didn't pay the big bucks. Yeah, John,

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Speaker 1: that's my sense of it, and every law enforcement officer

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Speaker 1: I've talked to offline so far feels that way. John.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for serving your community and for your expertise

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Speaker 1: today on the show. Appreciate you. Down to Miami, Marie

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Speaker 1: in northern Idaho retired police officer and school resource officer, Marie,

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Speaker 1: please weigh in, Hi, guys, John is absolutely correct. The

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Speaker 1: current training as a two years ago I retired them.

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Speaker 1: Is the first officer on the scene here shooting, He

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Speaker 1: goes in, takes out the gunman, and it doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: if you have to walk along with the kids screaming,

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Speaker 1: crying kids. I mean, that sounds really harsh, but you've

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Speaker 1: got to go straight to the shooter and you take

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Speaker 1: him out. You don't stop, you don't pause, You just

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Speaker 1: go hard and fast and take him out. Marie, are

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Speaker 1: you did you work inside of a school as a

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Speaker 1: as an armed security? Is that what you did? I did?

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Speaker 1: I worked as a school resource officers, So okay, so

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Speaker 1: would you thank you for doing that job? It's very important.

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Speaker 1: My kids have an armed police officer inside of their

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Speaker 1: school every day. They love her. She's widely loved inside

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Speaker 1: of the school. When you hear that that school resource

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Speaker 1: officer who was armed con fronted this guy and yet

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Speaker 1: he still somehow ended up in the school, what is

429
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: your analysis of that kind of situation? How did that happen? Well,

430
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: it's hard to know without knowing the facts, but it

431
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: sounds like he didn't do his job, because if he'd

432
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: done his job, the gunman would be dead or the

433
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: officer would be at least wounded, because if you got

434
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: a shooter coming in and he had a long gun.

435
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, he definitely knew that the shooter definitely came in.

436
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: He was clearly intent. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. Marie, thank

437
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: you for again knowing the procedures, knowing what is trained

438
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: or what people are trained in rather so important in

439
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 1: this moment to be able to assess properly what happened here.

440
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: Because thank you so much, Marie, thank you for serving

441
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 1: your community's clay. I mean, you see you hear him

442
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: those again. Very rarely is there audio that I think

443
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: is it's just too much. It's honestly, I think it's

444
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: too much to play on the show at this point

445
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: in time. And when you hear these parents, I know

446
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: that's I like, people could disagree with me on that,

447
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: but it's just heartbreak. They're begging the officers to go in,

448
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: and if they won't go in, to let them go in.

449
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: And you know, I mean, I mean, I'll tell you this,

450
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 1: I mean, uncle has retired LAPD, spent his spent his

451
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: career the LAPD. I think even now as a retired

452
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 1: LAPD officer, I'd bet my life that if he had

453
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: the opportunity, he'd go in there. And then all the

454
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: law enforcement officers listening right now would say I would

455
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: go in there. So why didn't Why didn't this happen?

456
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: And we're not getting No one is called in yet

457
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: to say. This doesn't sound like a breakdown in procedure.

458
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like there was some problem. So if there,

459
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: if there is something we're missing, please let us know.

460
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: Dustin and san Antonio. He's got tactical experience with the

461
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: eighty second Airborne. Thanks Dustin, thanks for calling in. Hey guys,

462
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: I just want to say real quick, you make dynamic

463
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: entry any by any means possible, by force, however, you

464
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: need to get to that active shooter and the threat

465
00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: neutralize it by any means possible. Yeah, that's that's the training,

466
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: as far as as far as I'm hearing. Yeah, to

467
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 1: your point, Dustin, when you're hearing the gun shots again,

468
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: I understand people out there who are like, oh, this

469
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: could be a hostage situation, But when there are gunshots

470
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: going off inside of a school classroom, I don't see

471
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: how your immediate response isn't we got to be in there, now,

472
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: we've got to go. Is that what you would typically

473
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: have been trained? Dustin? Yeah, if there's active gunshots, he's

474
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: no longer keeping people in a hastin situation. In my opinion,

475
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: he's executing people, and you need to neutralize that threat

476
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: by any means necessary as soon as possible. I mean, Dustin, Also,

477
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: if they had enough, and they certainly had over a

478
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: hundred officers is what has been officially reported on scene

479
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 1: for over an hour. But even in those earlier moments,

480
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: I mean one one guy with a rifle barricade and

481
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: I know is a difficult situation. But if you have

482
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: four or five trained people in a stack, I mean,

483
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: isn't that room entry is what they do? Isn't it

484
00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: basic room entry? And in my experience, by any police officer,

485
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: they go through basic room entries. Isn't clearing swat team

486
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: and go through numerous training hours of room clearing and entries.

487
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: And if you have multiple people and multiple agencies on site,

488
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: surround the location, make multiple entries into different points and

489
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: go towards the threat. Yeah, Dustin, that's again, if anyone

490
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: has a something else they want to add into this.

491
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: It sounds like there's a pretty clear consensus that there

492
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: was there was at least a breakdown and procedure here, Dustin,

493
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 1: thank you for your service, sir. Thank you for calling

494
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: it from San Antonio. One more before we have to

495
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: go into a break here for a moment. Sean in Bellehaven,

496
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: North Carolina. Sean, you're a former cop in paramedic. What

497
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: do you think. I agree with everyone that has spoken

498
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: so far. I think the one thing everyone's missing is Ferguson,

499
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: George Floyd. Every cop has been demonized and in the

500
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: back of their head for even that split second, it's

501
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: if I discharged my weapon, Am I going to jail?

502
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 1: And God forbid if I discharged my weapon and I

503
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: hit one of these children that I protect every day,

504
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 1: and that's where the pause comes in. I believe that's

505
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: worth mentioning. Yeah, I mean I think that is worth

506
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: mentioning that there are psychological impacts to turning. In the

507
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: space of a few years. Police are heroes into police

508
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: are all awful human beings who are trying to take lives. Sean,

509
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: thank you, it's a good call. Thank you for calling

510
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: in from from North Carolina come back and speaking of

511
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: Ferguson and BLM and the effects thereof this Obama tweet.

512
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: Clay and I mentioned the start of the show awful.

513
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: I'm it's hard for Obama to say or do something

514
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: that truly appalls appause me because I don't expect him

515
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: to say things that I find worthwhile or agreeable. But

516
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,239
Speaker 1: this was outrageous, and we'll come back, we'll tell you

517
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: about it. And again we got Mo Brooks joining later

518
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: on talk Georgia and the elections and whole lot of

519
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: stuff going on down in the midterms down the line. Rather, look,

520
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: is there are a better time than now to consider

521
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,920
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522
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523
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524
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: down as a result. Purchasing gold as part of those

525
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526
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Speaker 1: especially when markets decline or fail. I'd buy my gold

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540
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,719
Speaker 1: Welcome back in Clay cher Avis Buck Sexton show. By

541
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: the way, thanks to all the callers out there who

542
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: are helping to contextualize this larger situation. And we're obviously

543
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: very pro law enforcement on this show, but law enforcement

544
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: also can make mistakes and there can be errors of

545
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: tactical judgment that are made, just like errors are made

546
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: in every one of your professions. And I think Buck,

547
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: no longer this goes on without a detailed timeline of

548
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: exactly what happened. I keep coming back to this school

549
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: resource officer who confronted. They use the word confronted, which

550
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: is an interesting verb because it can do a lot

551
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: of work. There's a difference between many different types of confrontations.

552
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: Yelling hey, where you going arguably is confronting someone. It

553
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily provide any security whatsoever. How did this guy

554
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: get into the classroom if there was such a strong

555
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: master lock that they couldn't get in from the outside,

556
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: as has been reported by the Associated Press and others.

557
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: How did this shooter ever make his way inside in

558
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: the first place? Once the guns shots are going off

559
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: inside of the classroom? How is the immediate response from

560
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: officers on scene not to go in and to go in? Then,

561
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: as you're hearing a lot of people with far more knowledge,

562
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: as people with direct experience from this situation, are asking

563
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: those questions, these are really important facts that at this point, Buck,

564
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: I don't think it's unfair to ask for that information

565
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: to be released, because the longer you don't put out

566
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: an official account of this incident, the more the questions grow,

567
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: and the more difficult it is to ever get people

568
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: to believe whatever account you eventually provide. We did analysis

569
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: after action analysis for tactical law enforcement and intelligence purposes.

570
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: When I was in the CIA of Incidence terrorist incidents

571
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: where it was essentially a mass shooting. Obviously different than

572
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: a school shooting in terms of the UH. The security

573
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: procedures generally involved when you're looking at something like you know,

574
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: an embassy or um. But there was the Nairobi mall attack,

575
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: the Westgate mall attack. There was also the two mass

576
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: shooters in Mumbai. And I've been through detailed analysis of

577
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: incidents like that in the past, and I can tell

578
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: you that the Westgate mall UH for for people who

579
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: made just a quick refresher. This was back in twenty

580
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: thirteen and some al Shabab jihadis al Shabab's the primary

581
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: terrorist group affiliate with al Qaeda in Somalia, they went

582
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: into a mall for gunmen with Ak forty seven's and

583
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: they just went around killing everybody that was That was

584
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: the attack, and this was essentially it's a very upscale mall,

585
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: meaning you know a lot of a lot of international

586
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: tourists and a lot of secure the cameras and security

587
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: personnel inside, so they were able to reconstruct on video

588
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: essentially the most of the attack you can see at all.

589
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: There are documentaries that have shown this as well. And

590
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: there was a perimeter formed by the Kenyan military outside

591
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: the mall, and they did nothing, and people on the

592
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: inside were cowering and fear hoping that these al Shabab

593
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: terrorists weren't going to execute them at close range. How

594
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: long did it go on? Oh, I think it went

595
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: on for hours, certainly well over an hour. I think

596
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: it went on for for hours. That have to go

597
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: back and check. But it went went on for a

598
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: long period of time, that's for sure. And what ended it,

599
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: clay or what you know, what brought it to a

600
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: to a conclusion? Really, First of all, an x sas

601
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: guy British Special Air Survey so their Navy Seal or

602
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: Delta Force equivalent, just happened to be nearby. Is like, well,

603
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: I'm going in and I'm saving people. And also an

604
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,239
Speaker 1: Irish ranger happened to be nearby and said I'm going in.

605
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: I'm saving people. These were security consultants or working in Kenya.

606
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: I think it was either it might have even been

607
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: an off duty but a Kenyan cop went inside and

608
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: people just decided to go through the military court and

609
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 1: there's a military court on the outside and escort people

610
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: to safety. And this was just that this was the

611
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: decision that they made on their own. So in these situations,

612
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 1: sometimes it is somebody who says I'm going in there

613
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: and doing the evacuation or I'm going in there to

614
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: stop the threat that actually stops the threat and saves

615
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: lives while you have a big security bureaucracy around not

616
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: really doing very much. I've also think it's important to

617
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: note most of the time, these shooters are not highly

618
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: skilled and highly trained in the use of weapons, right

619
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,439
Speaker 1: most of the time. In other words, it's not as

620
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: if you're dealing with somebody in special opts who is

621
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: incredibly skilled and tactically trained in terms of being able

622
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: to to use their weapons. I mean, here we're talking

623
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: about an eighteen year old who just bought these weapons

624
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: what like a month ago when he turned eighteen years old.

625
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: He can't have spent that much time probably training in

626
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 1: a high level for use of these weapons, right, which

627
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: again I think I don't know how much information they

628
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: had as to who's in the in the school and

629
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: everything else, not that it changes anything in terms of

630
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: the calculus and when the gunshots are going off. But

631
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: I do think most of these shooters are not particularly

632
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: sophisticated with their firearms, which would basically, if if you're

633
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 1: out there trying to make a decision, it would encourage

634
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: I think you to be more aggressive rather than less. Right.

635
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: I understand if you're thinking, oh, this guy is a

636
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: is a weapon's genius, and he may have massive bombs

637
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: that he's rigged throughout throughout as school or something of

638
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: that nature. But really, we haven't had any situations like that. Yeah,

639
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: and Kenyon mall I told you about. It lasted hours,

640
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: it lasted deep into the night, and then finally Kenyon's

641
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: security forces entered them all. But the rescue efforts were

642
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: led by people who were standing around that cord and

643
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: saying not on my watch. And the importance of watching

644
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: and reconstructing all of this is you're trying to put

645
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 1: forward what would have been the best policy, right, learn

646
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: from these awful incidents and put the best policies in

647
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: place the next time. Until all these facts come out,

648
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: we can't even figure out what the best policy would

649
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: have been. It's possible this was in all systems failure

650
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: at this school and they had a lot of security

651
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: procedures in place. We just don't know. We need to

652
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: know now, Sleet Travis and buck Sexton on the front

653
00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: lines of truth. You m