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Speaker 1: Perhaps the toughest job in Washington is not being President

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Speaker 1: United States. It's actually being Chief of staff to the

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Speaker 1: President of the United States. The average chief of staff

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Speaker 1: to the President of the United States lasts about eighteen months.

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Speaker 1: I sat down recently with Ron Klain, the current Chief

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Speaker 1: of Staff to the President United States, and asked him

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Speaker 1: what this job actually entails and why it's so difficult.

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Speaker 1: For those who don't know Ron's background, it's quite amazing.

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Speaker 1: He's actually served his country for many, many years, and

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Speaker 1: among those positions are Chief Council for the Senate Judiciary

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Speaker 1: Committee under then Chairman Joe Biden, Associate Council for Judicial

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Speaker 1: Selection under President Clinton, Chief of Staff and Counselor to

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Speaker 1: the Attorney General Janet Reno, Staff director of the Senate

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Speaker 1: Democratic Leadership Committee under Leader Tom Dashell, and chief of

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Speaker 1: staff to Vice President Al Gore. In addition, uh He

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Speaker 1: also served as Assistant to the President and chief of

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Speaker 1: staff to Vice President Biden in the Obama administration, and

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Speaker 1: returned after serving several years in that position to serve

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Speaker 1: as the White House E Bowler Response Coordinator. Think you've

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Speaker 1: got the perfect resume for this job, but my question

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Speaker 1: is you know so much about being chief of staff

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Speaker 1: the people, and you know so much about the White House.

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Speaker 1: Don't you know that being chief of sta after the

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Speaker 1: White House President of the United States is a difficult

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Speaker 1: job to do, and usually the tenure is about eighteen months.

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Speaker 1: So when you were offered the job, did you say,

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Speaker 1: I know I'm only gonna be able to do this

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Speaker 1: for about eighteen months, or do you say I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: make it all four or eight years? Well, David, thanks,

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Speaker 1: thanks that very generous introduction. I appreciate it. Look, I

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Speaker 1: was honored and flattered humbled when President Biden. President Biden

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Speaker 1: asked me to come do this. Um, it is a

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Speaker 1: ruling job, There's no question about it. I think it's

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Speaker 1: easy to understand why the average tenure in the job

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Speaker 1: is seventeen eighteen months. Um, you know, I'm here every day,

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Speaker 1: working away. I'm honored to be part of this team

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Speaker 1: I have. I'm very lucky. I have probably the most

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Speaker 1: experienced a group of colleagues who have ever served as

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Speaker 1: a senior level in the White House. I have people

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Speaker 1: who carry a lot of the load every day. That

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Speaker 1: makes the job a lot easier than it would be.

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Speaker 1: We're facing a lot of hard challenges, no question about it.

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Speaker 1: Difficult situations on the international front, a lot of challenges

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Speaker 1: here at home. But I'm really lucky to be part

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Speaker 1: of an A plus team that's tackling these challenges every day.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about the job of being chief of

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Speaker 1: staff and how the White House works. So the President

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Speaker 1: does he get up early in the morning and call

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Speaker 1: you at home and say what's going on? Or or

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Speaker 1: do you you get in? What? What time does he

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Speaker 1: get in and what time you meet with the staff

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Speaker 1: people and what time you see him in the beginning

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Speaker 1: and the end of the day. How does that work?

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Speaker 1: So I'm usually in the White House every day by

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Speaker 1: UH and I talked to the President early in the

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Speaker 1: morning by phone from the residents. We have our morning

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Speaker 1: staff meetings before the President comes downstairs. We have a

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Speaker 1: number of different kinds of alignments of meetings depending on

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Speaker 1: the day of the week and whatnot, UM where we

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Speaker 1: kind of go over what's gonna happen that day, what's

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Speaker 1: gonna what the key questions are that need to be

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Speaker 1: put to the president, What are the key things we

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Speaker 1: need to resolve that day? As a team? As I said,

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Speaker 1: this is UH to the White House many times before. UM,

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Speaker 1: but I think this is the most team oriented staff

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Speaker 1: I've seen. Uh. Usually the President comes downstairs around nine o'clock.

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Speaker 1: I'm his first meeting the day. Every day, I kind

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Speaker 1: of go through where things are and some key priorities,

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Speaker 1: get his reaction to the materials he's been reading overnight.

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Speaker 1: President takes with him upstairs every evening a thick binder

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Speaker 1: of materials to read, decision memos, UM and briefing memos. Those.

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Speaker 1: He usually comes in with questions. I try to come

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Speaker 1: in with answers UH, and we have a conversation. Then

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Speaker 1: he proceeds to a number of different staff meetings. I

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Speaker 1: see him a number of times during the day for

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Speaker 1: different kinds of meetings they're going on, whether their national

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Speaker 1: security meetings or domestic policy meetings. And then usually at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day I come in and kind

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Speaker 1: of wrap with him on you know, what are the

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Speaker 1: key outstanding things, what are the things he's going to

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Speaker 1: see in his book that night that he really needs

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Speaker 1: to focus on, Uh, what are the big decisions he's

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Speaker 1: gonna have to make? And some of the meetings is

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Speaker 1: going to have the next day and UH, today UM

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Speaker 1: does anybody have the right or the senior staff who

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Speaker 1: has walked in privileges? Are you the only one that

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Speaker 1: can walk into the Oval office without an announcement or

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Speaker 1: are there a couple of people that can do that? Now,

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Speaker 1: any of the president's senior advisor of senior policy advisors

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Speaker 1: can come in and see him. Obviously, you know it's

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Speaker 1: he's got to not be in another meeting or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But but I I we run a White House here

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Speaker 1: where a lot of people have access to the President

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Speaker 1: and a lot of people are able to talk to

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Speaker 1: him straight and directly about what they think without having

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Speaker 1: to go through me. So Um, the president seems like

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Speaker 1: an even tempered person, but you know everybody gets upset

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Speaker 1: from time and time. Does he yell and scream or

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Speaker 1: he's not a yeller and scream, or how does he

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Speaker 1: show his displeasure at something you write a note to

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Speaker 1: him or or to you, or how does he show

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Speaker 1: say he's not happy? I think one of Joe Biden's

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Speaker 1: great strengths as president is that he hasn't who lived

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Speaker 1: a life filled with incredible triumphs and incredible tragedies. And um,

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Speaker 1: people know his by biography, they know his background, Uh.

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Speaker 1: They know the successes he's had, they know the grave

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Speaker 1: personal setbacks he suffered. And one thing that is true

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Speaker 1: is there's never a morning I go in there with

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Speaker 1: news that's as bad or worse than the news someone

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Speaker 1: else has had to deliver to him at other points

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Speaker 1: in time in his life. And I think that gives

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Speaker 1: him a very even keel. I think when things are

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Speaker 1: going well, he doesn't get too hyped up, and when

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Speaker 1: when we're having tougher days, he maintains that composure, that demeanor,

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Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the hallmarks of his temperament.

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Speaker 1: One of the things he brings to the office, that

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Speaker 1: that steadiness, that experience uh and uh in a life

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Speaker 1: that has been, as I say, filled with triumph and tragedy,

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Speaker 1: and that's seasoned him and prepared him for this moment.

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Speaker 1: Some people say, he's you know, it's seventy nine years old.

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Speaker 1: That's old to be president United States. Do you see

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Speaker 1: signs of his age? Is he uh in better shape

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Speaker 1: than you are? And in terms of exercising or how

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Speaker 1: do you deal with the fact that he's, you know,

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Speaker 1: older than anybody's ever been to be president Nited States? Well,

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Speaker 1: he's he He's definitely better shape than I am. That's

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Speaker 1: for sure. He's very fat. He works out almost every

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Speaker 1: day in the morning before he comes down to the

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Speaker 1: Oval office. Uh. And I think the American people saw

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Speaker 1: for themselves last night the president's stand to give an

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Speaker 1: hour long address that was filled with passion and power

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Speaker 1: and wisdom and energy. They saw him hold the longest

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Speaker 1: press conference in the history of presidents a couple weeks

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Speaker 1: ago at the start of the year. To our press conference,

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Speaker 1: we took questions from all kinds of reporters. So I

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Speaker 1: think his fitness, his vigor is beyond question. Uh. People

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Speaker 1: see him on the job every day. Uh. And then

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Speaker 1: what they see as a person who's fully capable of

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Speaker 1: doing the job, fully vigorous and great mental and physical health, uh,

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Speaker 1: and taking on the burdens of the office and executing

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Speaker 1: them well. So today you would say the President enjoying

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Speaker 1: the job or does he say, geez, I wish I

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Speaker 1: hadn't really done this. Well, I don't know that enjoying

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Speaker 1: is the way you describe tackling the responsibilities of being

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Speaker 1: the president United States, And particularly now where I think

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Speaker 1: he has emerged as the leader of the free world,

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Speaker 1: is the person who's leading this coalitions confronting Vladimir Putin.

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Speaker 1: But I think he's very glad he ran for president.

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Speaker 1: I think he is um, you have been well prepared

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Speaker 1: for the challenges he's tackling. I think, more importantly, I

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Speaker 1: hear from people all around the country, Democrats and Republicans,

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Speaker 1: that they're very glad he's the person in the Oval

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Speaker 1: office right now, that he's the person with the background, experience,

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Speaker 1: the judgment to tackle these hard problems. And uh so,

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of confidence in him as

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Speaker 1: the person who should be where he is. About intelligence

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Speaker 1: for a moment um, Usually, uh the intelligence that comes

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Speaker 1: into the c I A UH is not declassified and

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Speaker 1: given to reporters in a public way. Clearly, in this process, somebody,

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Speaker 1: I assume the President United States, thought it was a

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Speaker 1: good idea to declassify the satellite photos and to declassify

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Speaker 1: the information we have about what Putin was sinking or saying.

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Speaker 1: So was that a difficult decision to come to And

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Speaker 1: do you think it worked or didn't work? Yet? David,

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Speaker 1: I think it was the right decision given the kind

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Speaker 1: of environment we were facing. We knew that President Putin

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Speaker 1: had a reputation for disinformation. We've certainly seen that all

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Speaker 1: around the world, and we knew that his most likely

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Speaker 1: approach here would be to create some kind of disinformation campaign,

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Speaker 1: a false flag attack, potentially a false provocation out and

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Speaker 1: outlies to justify his invasion of Ukraine. As it became

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Speaker 1: clear and clear to us that that was what he

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Speaker 1: had planned, we thought it was more and more important

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Speaker 1: to strip him of that advantage by making clear what

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Speaker 1: we knew his plans were and making it clear to

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Speaker 1: the world what we thought would happen. And I think

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Speaker 1: that decision by the President Biden, in conjunction with our

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Speaker 1: NATO allies or other allies that are part of the coalition,

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Speaker 1: is shared decision to proceed this way has been one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons why there has been such a unified

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Speaker 1: and uniform ruled reaction to what President Putin has done.

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Speaker 1: There's no ambiguity about who is the aggressor here. There's

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Speaker 1: no belief in any of the false stories about what

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Speaker 1: quote unquote provoked this invasion. I think that transparency that

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Speaker 1: uh sophisticated use of intelligence and a modern information warfare

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Speaker 1: context has served the allies very very well. I also

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Speaker 1: think it's stripped President Putin of any element of surprise

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Speaker 1: in the attack and helped the Ukrainians be ready for

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Speaker 1: what what has hit them. So how do you respond

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Speaker 1: to the critics that you have? And you have some

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Speaker 1: critics sometimes, I'm sure you know who say you should

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Speaker 1: have sent armaments to the Ukrainians before the invasion, so

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Speaker 1: they were better armed than they are now that we're

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Speaker 1: now sending them after the invasion, and and that you

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Speaker 1: should have imposed the sanctions before the invasion occurred. What

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Speaker 1: do you respond? How do you respond to those kind

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Speaker 1: of criticisms versa all, we did send armaments to the

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Speaker 1: Ukrainians before the invasion. We sent more arms, more military

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Speaker 1: assistance to Ukraine in the past twelve months than any

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Speaker 1: year uh since. So we did send a variety of

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Speaker 1: kinds of military assistance to the Ukrainians. That assistance continues

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Speaker 1: to be to come into the country, but we did

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Speaker 1: send plenty before this happened. In terms of the sanctions,

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Speaker 1: we thought that the best way to make sure we'd

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Speaker 1: have the most unified and powerful set of sanctions was

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Speaker 1: to make it clear that those sanctions would take effect

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Speaker 1: when and if President Putin invaded. The results that we've seen.

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Speaker 1: Illustrate that, David, You've seen There's never been a effort

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Speaker 1: to impose sanctions this stringent on a country as large

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Speaker 1: and as complex and as interconnected to the world economy

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Speaker 1: as Russia. It's really a kind of astonishing effort that

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Speaker 1: you're seeing under way here. And the impact of those

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Speaker 1: sanctions has been devastating. They're devastating because there's such a

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Speaker 1: powerful group of countries unified in their application. And I

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Speaker 1: think doing it the way we did is what's made

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Speaker 1: all that possible. When you impose sanctions, Let's suppose the

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Speaker 1: offending party, Let's say Russia says, Okay, we made a mistake,

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Speaker 1: We're sorry, we're pulling back. Did the sanctions go away

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Speaker 1: or are their penalties that are subsequent to the withdrawal?

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Speaker 1: Other words, are there ongoing penalties or they're in effect

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Speaker 1: reparations for having done these bad things? Or the sanction

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Speaker 1: just go away? Or is that not decided yet? Hasn't

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Speaker 1: been deciding? What would happen if the Russians withdrew again?

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Speaker 1: That be part of whatever kind of diplomacy would unlind

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Speaker 1: the crisis in Ukraine. Sadly, Uh, this is a this

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Speaker 1: as you say, is a hypothetical question. We see no signs, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: that the Russians have any intention of withdrawing right now,

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Speaker 1: and indeed, their military operations in Ukraine continue to escalate.

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Speaker 1: They continue to um, you know, attack more civilians, more

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Speaker 1: civilian sights. The fighting continues to get more and more

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Speaker 1: fear So, we offered President Putting a number of diplomatic

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Speaker 1: off ramps in the run up to this invasion. We

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Speaker 1: offered him a number of different arrangements, never different possible

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Speaker 1: ways in which he could meet with members of the

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Speaker 1: coalition and the Ukrainians, a number of different kinds of

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Speaker 1: structures to do that. At every juncture, President Putin rejected

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Speaker 1: the path of diplomacy, continued on the path of invasion.

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Speaker 1: And that's what we're seeing unfold right now. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about build back better. UM. I wondered who came up

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Speaker 1: with that tongue twister? Um, it's hard to say that quickly. Um.

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Speaker 1: Was that something that you came up with or who

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Speaker 1: came up with that? I don't know who came up

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Speaker 1: it certainly was the principal slogan for the president's campaign.

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Speaker 1: Uh in uh was the slogan for most of his

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Speaker 1: policies was the umbrella under which most of the policies

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Speaker 1: that he ran on build Back Better. Uh, it's actually

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Speaker 1: gained some traction on the world. A number of European

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Speaker 1: countries have now adopted Build Back Better initiatives. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's a slogan that's resonated with people. Uh. It

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Speaker 1: is a bit of a tongue twister, but I think

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Speaker 1: it does have some residents, and it comes from the campaign.

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Speaker 1: So is the Build Back Better bill that passed the

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Speaker 1: House likely to ever see the light of day in

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Speaker 1: the Senate? Are you now committed to breaking it up

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Speaker 1: and passing individual pieces of it? Well, I think what

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Speaker 1: we're gonna try to do is get as many of

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Speaker 1: the President's initiatives enacted as possible in the best way possible.

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Speaker 1: The Senate has the option to do reconciliation as a

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Speaker 1: procedural device that takes only fifty votes to pass a

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Speaker 1: bill that has tax changes and other kinds of economic

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Speaker 1: changes in it. Uh, And that would probably be the

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Speaker 1: vehicle we'd use to move some legislation like this through

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Speaker 1: the Senate. We're obviously in conversations with a number of

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Speaker 1: senators about what elements have the most support. What elements

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Speaker 1: are the most effective to get pass to the Senate.

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Speaker 1: You're the president. Talk about a number those last night, David.

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Speaker 1: I think people are very concerned about inflation and very

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Speaker 1: concerned about what inflation means to everyday families, and that

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Speaker 1: means they pay too much for things, and so key

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Speaker 1: parts of the Build Back Better Plan address that directly.

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Speaker 1: Bring down the cost of childcare, bring down the cost

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Speaker 1: of prescription drugs, bring down the cost of elder care,

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Speaker 1: bring down the cost of healthcare. So we're looking for

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Speaker 1: and most importantly in some ways are equally important, I

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Speaker 1: should say, bring down the cost of energy by moving

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Speaker 1: us to more of a clean energy economy. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: you look at those proposals. There are proposals that meet

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Speaker 1: the moment of higher costs, and we're going to continue

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Speaker 1: to work with the Senate to find a formula that

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Speaker 1: moves that agenda forward. So, Ron, you have been criticized

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Speaker 1: by some for saying that you are so powerful that

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Speaker 1: you really are effectively running the whole government. How do

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Speaker 1: you respond to that. You're like that, you're the Prime Minister.

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Speaker 1: It's ridiculous. I'm a staff person. I've been a staff

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Speaker 1: person my whole life. I've never run for anything. I've

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Speaker 1: never been elected to anything. I've been proud to work

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Speaker 1: for some distinguished public servants, Uh, President Biden being one

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Speaker 1: of them at several points in time of my career,

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Speaker 1: President Obama, of course, President Clinton. Uh. That's that's who

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Speaker 1: I am. And at the White House, not only am

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Speaker 1: a staff person, I'm a staff person who works with

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Speaker 1: a number of other enormously talented staff people. So this

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Speaker 1: is a real team effort here, team on the policy side,

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Speaker 1: team on the strategy side. My job is just to

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Speaker 1: help coordinate those people get that advice to the president. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So that's how I see my role. How do you

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Speaker 1: respond to the other criticism of some people have had,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily of you, but of the president that he

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Speaker 1: governed as he campaign as a moderate, but he's governing

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Speaker 1: more to the left than people expect it. And what

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Speaker 1: is your response to that criticism that some have made. Yeah, look,

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Speaker 1: I think that that criticism wipes out the history of

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Speaker 1: and paign. Uh. There's nothing that the President sent to

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Speaker 1: Capitol Hill that he did not put before the voters

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Speaker 1: in the campaign. Our economic agenda is the economic agenda

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Speaker 1: he ran on an eighty one million Americans voted for

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Speaker 1: when they elected him. In fact, if anything, we've trimmed

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Speaker 1: that agenda back. The Build Back Better plan that we

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Speaker 1: sent to Capitol Hill was significantly smaller than even the

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Speaker 1: one we campaigned on. Uh, the infrastructure bill is something

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Speaker 1: he campaigned on, the voting rights bill something he campaigned on,

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Speaker 1: and the COVID relief package that we started the administration

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Speaker 1: with again as something he endorsed in the campaign. So

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Speaker 1: he was very straightforward voters about what he would do

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Speaker 1: if he were president, and that's what he's done. And look,

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Speaker 1: the proposals we put forward are substantial y because the

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Speaker 1: problems we inherited were substantial. It's not any vision, and

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Speaker 1: not any grandiose vision. We inherited an economy that was

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Speaker 1: dead in the water, fifty thousand jobs a month, just

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Speaker 1: fifty a months the three months before we got here,

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Speaker 1: virtually debt economy. The government hadn't even bought enough vaccinations

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Speaker 1: to give one vaccine to every American, let alone too

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Speaker 1: vaccines to ever American, let alone booster shots. We had

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Speaker 1: no system to really massively distribute and administer those vaccines.

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Speaker 1: We face a climate crisis. We face all kinds of

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Speaker 1: other challenges now, obviously this challenge over in Europe. So

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Speaker 1: we've put together proposals to meet the moment, not out

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Speaker 1: of some effort to kind of do something bigger than

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Speaker 1: we should, but because we inherited very big problems. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And and you've seen a lot of progress. We obviously

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Speaker 1: then went and created more jobs in one year than

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Speaker 1: any administration in history, for any administration, says nineteen thirty nine,

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Speaker 1: according to New York Times fact check, So any administration

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Speaker 1: since nineteen thirty nine, we uh see the fastest second

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Speaker 1: time of growth in forty years. Was the first time

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Speaker 1: in twenty years. Our economy grew faster in the year

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Speaker 1: than China's economy. So we put in place the kind

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Speaker 1: of recovery measures that were needed. We've vaccinated over two

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Speaker 1: u fully vaccinated over two twenty million Americans. Uh. You

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Speaker 1: know that these are big tasks we took on this year,

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Speaker 1: and I'm proud of what we've done to achieve them.

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Speaker 1: So usually in the after the first year of an administration,

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Speaker 1: you see some turnover and a cabinet or something. But

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Speaker 1: you haven't had any turnover, and I haven't had any

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Speaker 1: scandals either, So, how come you haven't any scandals and

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Speaker 1: how come you haven't any turnover? Well, uh, I think

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Speaker 1: the president of a very good job of picking a

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Speaker 1: cabinet and picking senior officials, and I think the lack

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Speaker 1: of scandals reflects that. Uh. I think the lack of

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Speaker 1: turnover reflects the fact that these are men and women

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Speaker 1: who are very eager to serve, who doing a great job,

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Speaker 1: who are making a difference. It's the most diverse cabinet history.

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Speaker 1: It's the first time in history the cabinet has been

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Speaker 1: evenly divided between men and women, the first time in

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Speaker 1: history that a majority of the cabinet isn't white. And

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Speaker 1: it's a diverse cabinet. It's an incredibly talented cabinet, and

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Speaker 1: we're very lucky to have their service. The President's favorability

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Speaker 1: ratings are not as high as I assume you would like,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I wondered, how do you win the White

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Speaker 1: House deal with that? Well, I think the most important

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Speaker 1: thing is the president to do the right thing. And

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Speaker 1: I think that what you're seeing right now is um

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Speaker 1: a mood in the country that's impacted by the fact

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Speaker 1: that this pandemic has lasted longer than anyone thought it would.

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Speaker 1: Uh that while we've had tremendous growth on the economy

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Speaker 1: and jobs, we're having a problem with inflation, and I

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Speaker 1: think those things contribute to um generally um uh mood

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Speaker 1: in the country that's not as upbeat or confidence we

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Speaker 1: would like. What I think in the case of President

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Speaker 1: Biden is we made a lot of hard decisions in

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Speaker 1: to put in place a new economic strategy that you

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Speaker 1: heard the President talk about last night in the State

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Speaker 1: of the Union, a new COVID strategy that we're again

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Speaker 1: updating again today with new steps on COVID UH, and

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Speaker 1: those hard decisions I think are starting to show results.

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Speaker 1: I fully accept the fact that the American people are

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Speaker 1: more show me, not tell me. And what they want

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Speaker 1: to see is they want to see that we really

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Speaker 1: have reached a new way of managing COVID. They want

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Speaker 1: to see we really have not just created jobs, but

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Speaker 1: the jobs are going to stay, the wages are going

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Speaker 1: to go up. They want to see that these the

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Speaker 1: economic recovery is real and sustained. I think the political

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Speaker 1: credit will follow from that. When I was here both

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Speaker 1: with President Clinton and President Obama, we saw the recovery

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Speaker 1: ahead of the politics, and I think you're seeing that

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Speaker 1: now too, and so I do think our approval reading

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Speaker 1: will go up in the months ahead as the economic recovery,

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Speaker 1: the progress on covid UH become more permanent, more lasting,

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Speaker 1: and internalized more by the voters. Now. One of my

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Speaker 1: former partners at at Carlisle was Jim Baker, and he

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Speaker 1: was considered maybe up until you the gold standard of

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Speaker 1: how to be chief of staff. But he didn't actually

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Speaker 1: like the job that much, and he wound up as

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Speaker 1: Secretary of Treasury eventually and as Secretary of State. So

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Speaker 1: do you have any aspirations to any of those jobs

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Speaker 1: or something like that? I don't think so. I think

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Speaker 1: when I finished my tenure here, I'll go back. Uh.

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Speaker 1: When I finished my tenure here, I'm gonna like take

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Speaker 1: a month in sleep, and then I'll figure out what

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Speaker 1: I'll do next. Uh. You know, Secretary Bayer, I have

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Speaker 1: to know him a little bit during the Florida recount

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Speaker 1: when we are on opposite sides of that. He has

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Speaker 1: been unbelievably gracious. He sent me the the kindest note

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Speaker 1: when I got this job. Um, he's sent me a

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Speaker 1: couple of the notes since then. He's just such a

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Speaker 1: uh you know, he's just been He's just such a

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Speaker 1: wonderful person. Um and um uh and I he is

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Speaker 1: the gold standard of doing this job. I couldn't even

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Speaker 1: aspire to that. Just try to do the best I

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Speaker 1: can every day. So whenever you do finish this position

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Speaker 1: as chief of staff and a friend calls you subsequently

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Speaker 1: and says, I've been offered the job of chief of

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Speaker 1: staff to the President nited states, would you tell him

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Speaker 1: to take or her to take that job or not.

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Speaker 1: I would definitely tell anyone to take this job. It

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Speaker 1: is a hard job, but it's a unique opportunity to

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Speaker 1: work with, first of all, an incredible president and vice

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Speaker 1: president of course at a time it's very important to

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Speaker 1: our country, and to work with an amazingly talented group

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Speaker 1: of people here in the White House throughout the agency's

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Speaker 1: They just blow me away every day and I learned

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Speaker 1: something new every day. It's been the culminating experience in

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Speaker 1: my career. Uh and um i um. I just couldn't

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Speaker 1: be more grateful for the experience. And whoever replaces me

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Speaker 1: in this job whenever my typing the job ends, I

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Speaker 1: hope has the same kind of experience. Thanks for listening

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Speaker 1: to hear more of my interviews. You can subscribe and

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Speaker 1: download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen