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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today,

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Speaker 1: I'm in north central Idaho. We're on a non resident

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Speaker 1: hound hunting trip. I'm here with my good buddy Bradley Dammerman.

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Speaker 1: We're finishing up the sugar trip. Fortunate to harvest a

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Speaker 1: great call yesterday that everything I wanted in it in

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Speaker 1: a cat. So we're going to kind of skip the

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Speaker 1: traditional question and answer that we take from our listeners

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Speaker 1: and just kind of jump in the conversation here with Bradley.

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Speaker 1: But if you have questions for myself and my guests

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Speaker 1: are Dirt and his guests, feel free to email them

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Speaker 1: to us at CPD at phelpsgame Calls dot com and

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Speaker 1: we'll do our best to get them on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: So we're just going to kind of jump right in

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Speaker 1: to hound hunting. And we have a lot of side

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Speaker 1: conversations that I wish we could actually you know, we

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Speaker 1: bottle them all up. So today I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: kind of just talk about what we do as we're

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Speaker 1: driving around the woods looking for tracks and looking for

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that we were brought

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Speaker 1: up earlier this morning as we were talking is, you know,

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Speaker 1: the perception that hound hunting isn't tough. And I think

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Speaker 1: from the outside, until you get to go with the

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Speaker 1: hound hunter, it may you may think of that as like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: the dogs did the work this or that, and you

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Speaker 1: basically walk up and shoot them. But it couldn't be

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Speaker 1: further from the truth. And being Dirk were kind of

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Speaker 1: joking that hunting from a clear cut and city is

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Speaker 1: the easy way, Like you could easily make the argument

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Speaker 1: that baiting is a harder way because you're putting in

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Speaker 1: all this effort or hound hunting. So can you elaborate

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Speaker 1: a little bit on how much work goes into hound

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Speaker 1: hunting and not only being successful keeping your dogs in shape,

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Speaker 1: the almost your own commitment to being a hound hunter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well thanks for having me on your podcast. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so that there. I definitely get a lot of comments

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Speaker 2: like hound hunting's easy, and you know, why don't you

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Speaker 2: hunt the hard way? And I just shake my head because, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, first of all, you got to get a

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Speaker 2: commitment that you want to be a houndsman, and then

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Speaker 2: you gotta find find a good line of dogs that

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Speaker 2: you want, whether it's plots, walkers, or and then just

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Speaker 2: find some good dogs, and then you get a pup,

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Speaker 2: you know. And then well then you got to train it,

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Speaker 2: you know, and that's time consuming, especially if you've never

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Speaker 2: done it before or you don't have any older dogs

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Speaker 2: to train it with, you know. So there's that journey,

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Speaker 2: which could be a really long journey, you know, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of time, a lot of money. And then

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Speaker 2: you get that part kind of down after years sometimes

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Speaker 2: that you know, I remember in my younger years of it,

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Speaker 2: I went days without catching stuff, you know, and uh

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Speaker 2: but just kept at it, never gave up, you know,

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Speaker 2: and and just kept pushing. But uh, yeah, so you

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Speaker 2: got that part of it well then, and then the

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Speaker 2: hunting part of it, you know. You know, we still

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Speaker 2: get up extremely early as you know now, Yeah, get

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Speaker 2: up early, we get out there. I mean, you got

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Speaker 2: to have all the equipment, tons of equipment, you know,

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Speaker 2: get get out there early, get everything unloaded. That's all work,

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Speaker 2: you know, And and then you got to try to

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Speaker 2: find a bear or lion or whatever you're doing. And

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Speaker 2: sometimes it might you might go two or three days

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Speaker 2: before you find what you're looking for. And then you

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Speaker 2: find what you're looking for, and then it's like okay,

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Speaker 2: and my dog's even going to catch it. You know,

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Speaker 2: as you've seen yesterday, that wasn't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was not easy at all, and

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, multiple attempts and and some stuff

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Speaker 1: where're like, oh, this is not going to go in

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Speaker 1: our favor where you thought it was going to go

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Speaker 1: in your favor and just the unknowns.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And they got in the rocks yesterday and

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Speaker 2: I kind of thought he was going to get away

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Speaker 2: there for a little bit, and you know, and just

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Speaker 2: hiking in there. I know, we're all a little bit

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Speaker 2: sore this morning.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it was so that's easy. Yeah, I know,

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Speaker 1: And and uh, we'll get back to the easy. Like

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Speaker 1: the I want to touch on the physical side. But

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Speaker 1: you you mentioned something there about equipment. You don't just

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Speaker 1: get to have a snowmobile. You don't just get to

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Speaker 1: have a four wheeler. You don't just get to have

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Speaker 1: a pickup truck, the trailer, the callers. I mean you

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Speaker 1: you've got your investment into all this equipment to make

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Speaker 1: these hunts happen, whether you got to go high, whether

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Speaker 1: you got to stay low. You know, people can say

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Speaker 1: easy because you're on a machine, but you're out there freezing,

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Speaker 1: you're cold, you're putting tons of miles on tons of

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Speaker 1: road like just time on the machines, and isn't easy

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Speaker 1: And I'll I want to say now when I say

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Speaker 1: the difficult side and Bradley's talking about the houndsman side,

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Speaker 1: for the hunter side, I would agree, it's it's a

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Speaker 1: little easier right by hunting bhyd hounds, like I would say,

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Speaker 1: and easy really just comes into play, like do you

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Speaker 1: consider driving up, getting out of your pickup truck and

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Speaker 1: sitting on a clear cut easier than the hike we

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Speaker 1: did yesterday? Like, yeah, I would say it may be

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Speaker 1: easier to find success. I guess that part, but not

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Speaker 1: always right there. There's times the weather didn't cooperate, you know,

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Speaker 1: and so so how much I mean, is there any

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Speaker 1: other equipment I didn't miss? And just to the extent

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Speaker 1: of you know, you're getting you around, you're getting your

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Speaker 1: clients around, like you got to have multiple machines, you know.

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Speaker 1: You guys were telling me the story the other day

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Speaker 1: about thinking you had enough snow and you went up

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Speaker 1: and ruined your snow and bill tracks, you know, and

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Speaker 1: it's yeah, there's all of this, and so I mean

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Speaker 1: you just got a ton of equipment into this and.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, ton of equipment. I mean, yeah, like the other day,

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Speaker 2: I you know, it's been a rough winner. So I

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Speaker 2: had enough snow where I started ended up running out

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Speaker 2: of snow. And they were brand new skis, you know

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Speaker 2: that we're close to three hundred bucks. And I paid

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Speaker 2: for them and I toasted them that very next day

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Speaker 2: after I put them on, and a lot of that

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Speaker 2: was I knew better, but it happens, you know. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: the gear, like I have a couple of different four

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Speaker 2: wheelers ready to to hunt with the hounds, like bear hunting,

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Speaker 2: because I know how breakdowns are, you know, and when

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Speaker 2: you're hunting every day and you're kind of in that routine,

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Speaker 2: you know, you got to have a backup plan, so

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Speaker 2: you got to have I have extra callers because callers

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Speaker 2: always go bad. They're three hundred bucks apiece, three point

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Speaker 2: fifty actually now for the ones I like, and I've

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Speaker 2: got twenty of them, you know, And yeah, pick up

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Speaker 2: the wearing hair and pickups. I mean, I don't think

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Speaker 2: I could sell you anyone in my.

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Speaker 1: Pickups, right, You wouldn't want a buddy to buy them?

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Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't want to sell them to a friend,

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Speaker 2: you know. So they're really, it's just it's hard on everything.

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Speaker 2: It costs a lot of money, and yeah, it's just

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Speaker 2: it's it's it's a big commitment to be a houndman,

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Speaker 2: you know, and there's no doubt about that new baby,

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Speaker 2: and it's you don't really get that money back, you know.

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Speaker 2: It's just you got to love it. And it's like

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Speaker 2: a boat, they say, you know, you just keep dumping money.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so touch back on the physical side. We

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Speaker 1: we you know, we went and we weren't very far

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Speaker 1: from the road, but you couldn't picked a much steeper canyon,

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Speaker 1: you know for this cat to be in. You know,

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Speaker 1: you let off in one place. It was one of

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Speaker 1: the longer cougar chases that you said you've been a

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Speaker 1: part of at times, and you didn't know if they

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Speaker 1: were gonna you know, a tree, and then when you

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Speaker 1: get there it's like it's rugged. And then it just

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Speaker 1: so happened that when we showed up between then and

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Speaker 1: when we got to the dogs, it had moved trees,

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Speaker 1: and and uh, we're that's when we're side helme. Snow

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Speaker 1: is involved. You know, usually your hunters are in more snow,

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Speaker 1: so you're you're dealing with steep slopes, lots of snow,

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Speaker 1: and you're not the easiest to get around in and

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Speaker 1: and all. You know, not that I'm in the greatest shape,

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Speaker 1: but when I got to the tree, like I was

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Speaker 1: a little bit cooked already, you know. And then I mean,

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Speaker 1: so it's just because you're behind dogs doesn't mean you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get a cake walk to an animal, or that

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Speaker 1: they don't tree two miles that way, and it takes

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Speaker 1: you two hours.

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Speaker 2: To get to the tree, right, Yeah, I mean, yeah, yesterday,

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Speaker 2: you know, it ended up jumping twice on us. So

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Speaker 2: it jumped the first time, which then we had to

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Speaker 2: walk quite away and then treed and then we were

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Speaker 2: fooling around there looking it over, and then it jumped again.

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Speaker 2: Well then it went to you know, baying the dog,

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Speaker 2: so then we had to cover more ground. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: there was nothing easy about it. I remember I had

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Speaker 2: a client last year that hunted with me, and I

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Speaker 2: took anyways. He was he was older and kind of

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Speaker 2: out of shape, and we treated this lion in some

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Speaker 2: deep snow, you know, And it was it was probably

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Speaker 2: only six seven hundred yards from the road, which doesn't

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Speaker 2: sound far, but anybody that's familiar with TPS is in Idaho, right,

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Speaker 2: But anyways, I got the guy. He made it about

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Speaker 2: halfway and he was so whipped and he was ready

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Speaker 2: to quit, you know so, and the snow was over

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Speaker 2: my past my knees, you know. So I just made

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Speaker 2: a pass with my snow shoes like two or three

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Speaker 2: times to make him a walk way, and just got,

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Speaker 2: you know, a little bit out of time and stuff.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, I'll tell you what I was with

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Speaker 2: that day, harder than any l kind I'd ever been on.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it's not not guaranteed, not easy. The

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Speaker 1: other thing where I feel, you know, I grew up

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Speaker 1: as a deer and L hunter. We had about a

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Speaker 1: month season maybe the and when I think of easy,

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Speaker 1: you know a lot of people think of how much

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Speaker 1: work did I put in that day? But then I

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Speaker 1: look at like, what are you doing for the whole year?

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Speaker 1: Like you're out there, you know, I know, you know,

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Speaker 1: you've been to some trade shows and you do deer

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Speaker 1: and l hunting. But I mean you're out in the

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Speaker 1: field two and fifty days a year.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's safe to say that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And so I mean, like I said, I'm going

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Speaker 1: back to the helendsman, and I think the Helensman typically

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Speaker 1: get more you know, more guff than I do as

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Speaker 1: the hunter even or you know, maybe maybe not, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I want to I want to kind of put the

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Speaker 1: rest the idea that like helen hunting is easy in

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Speaker 1: some form, it's it's not. I will I would agree

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Speaker 1: that helen hunting probably has a high your success rate

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Speaker 1: if you're going to be a I mean obviously bears,

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Speaker 1: cats or whatever you're gonna you're gonna have a better

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Speaker 1: chance of success, But doesn't necessarily it's.

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Speaker 2: Easy to get there, right, And then I would say

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Speaker 2: on the success part, you know, it all depends on

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Speaker 2: the pack of dogs.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I mean I've seen guys you know that are just

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Speaker 2: getting into it or maybe good hunters, good hound hunters

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Speaker 2: that it had really good dogs at one time and

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Speaker 2: then kind of lost their line or you knows, wipe

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Speaker 2: them out, you know, and then they're back to square

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Speaker 2: one and and so they're hound hunting trips aren't so Yeah,

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Speaker 2: productive and productive, Yeah, but yeah, I would say, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's easier and it's easy to I can see why

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Speaker 2: people think that it's easy, and especially with social media nowadays,

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Speaker 2: you know, you see these little clips and guys, you

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Speaker 2: know they're they're basically just showing.

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Speaker 1: Law.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, turning dogs loose tree, shoot, shoot it, knock

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Speaker 2: it out. That's it. And that does look pretty easy.

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Speaker 2: But there's a lot of stuff that ain't shown. It

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Speaker 2: is not easy. I can promise you that.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna I'm gonna keep throwing you some hard ones. Bradley.

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Speaker 1: You know, one thing the antis like to use, or

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Speaker 1: one thing they always say, is that hunting behind hounds

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Speaker 1: isn't fair. I want to hear your opinion that. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna follow it.

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Speaker 2: Up, okay with a twist there. Yeah, so yeah, fair Chase.

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Speaker 2: You know they do use that. It's not fair, Chase.

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Speaker 2: And I mean you just heard us talk about what

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Speaker 2: how much time and equipment and stuff that goes into

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Speaker 2: two hound hunting. So again, I'll bring back the lion hunt.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday the thing almost got away. Yeah, there was actually

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Speaker 2: a better chance of it getting away yesterday than us

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Speaker 2: getting it. We happened to get it yesterday. Bear especially.

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Speaker 2: I know Dirk's been with me on on times that

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: The bear got away, Well you have to that beat

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Speaker 1: up bear. We just couldn't do anything with it.

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Speaker 2: And so when I think a fair chase, I think

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Speaker 2: about all the bears and lions that got away from hens,

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Speaker 2: you know. So I mean, in my mind that's fair

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Speaker 2: chase because they do have a chance to get away.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I'm gonna when I think of fair,

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Speaker 1: I come back to the management and I'm gonna not

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Speaker 1: use the word fair, but I'm gonna look at like

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Speaker 1: you in particular, the way that you manage hellnd hunting,

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Speaker 1: You're not. It's it's the most fair way. You're not

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Speaker 1: just shooting, you know, a female line across the canyon.

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Speaker 1: You're you're pursuing the biggest, most dominant males. You're doing

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Speaker 1: it in a way that's more sustainable. And when I

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Speaker 1: say fair, like, I still see us as hunters, whether

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Speaker 1: it's a heund hunter, whether it's a spot stock hunter,

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Speaker 1: like we are a management tool and the fair in it, like,

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Speaker 1: in order to go into this North American model a

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Speaker 1: wildlife and use it how it is, we need to

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Speaker 1: take some of these larger toms out. And if we

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Speaker 1: target that, we're making sure we've got good line population.

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Speaker 1: We're not trying to wipe them out. And so I'm like,

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Speaker 1: find me a fair way to do this, use us

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Speaker 1: as management tools and to use dogs. Go look at

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Speaker 1: a cat in a tree and be like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: too young, We're gonna let them. We're gonna let him

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Speaker 1: out of the tree. Or yeah, that's a target animal,

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Speaker 1: or that's a female, we're gonna let her go so

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Speaker 1: she can stay and repot, you know, breed and and

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Speaker 1: do it. It's not like you don't want to see

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Speaker 1: these things wiped off the face of the earth. And

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Speaker 1: that's where I think people look at houndsmen or people

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Speaker 1: that hunt mind hounds and like those people want to

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Speaker 1: wipe every animal off face of the earth. That it

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Speaker 1: couldn't be further from the truth, especially hunting with you

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe some heundsmen and we're gonna get into you know,

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Speaker 1: bad bad raps or you know, kind of get a

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Speaker 1: bad rap as a houndsman at times. And in some

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Speaker 1: of these these things that have affected it. But I

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Speaker 1: would say the majority, and you know, more helmsmen than me, aren't.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're not out there thirst killing, They're not

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Speaker 1: out there trying to kill everything on the landscape. You know.

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Speaker 1: They want to manage. I mean, and not everything doesn't

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Speaker 1: have to come back down to dollars or cents. But

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Speaker 1: you make part of your living off of having big

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Speaker 1: toms to kill, yep, And so it's like there's there's

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Speaker 1: multiple reasons, and regardless if you took the money away,

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Speaker 1: you probably wouldn't think that they all needed to be

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Speaker 1: killed anyways, even if there wasn't a reason. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: I think fairness, to me, is the best tools we

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Speaker 1: have available to manage the population in a certain way

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Speaker 1: or manipulate that population, and to me, held hunting is

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Speaker 1: the best way to do it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I agree one hundred percent. Thanks for bringing that up. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean that's what I should have been talking about,

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Speaker 2: is how many how much stuff I've let go in

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Speaker 2: my life, way more than I've killed. You know, I

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Speaker 2: might I might catch a say eighty bear, you know,

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Speaker 2: in a spring and fall or whatever, and maybe shoot

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Speaker 2: four or five of them. I'm not kidding either. I

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Speaker 2: mean I've done that several times. I mean, and like

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Speaker 2: you said, you know, you can look them over good

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Speaker 2: and okay that one's that one's a female, or you

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Speaker 2: know that one's young, or or I don't know his

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Speaker 2: his his hide ain't looking that great. You know, you

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Speaker 2: can let you know, there's lots of reasons you can

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Speaker 2: let him go where. And I'm not picking on any

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Speaker 2: hunter group obviously, I'm for everything.

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Speaker 1: But you know, we're.

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Speaker 2: You you spot and stock. You know, you might see one

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Speaker 2: three hundred yards and not and get up to it

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Speaker 2: and be like, oh, man, didn't size it up right,

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Speaker 2: that's only eighty pounds, you know, eighty pounds bare I

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Speaker 2: thought it was bigger. Are the same with you know,

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Speaker 2: mountain lions or or you know, you might spot and

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Speaker 2: stop one of them and shoot and be like, oh, shoot,

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Speaker 2: that was a female you.

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Speaker 1: Know, yeah, yeah, knowing right.

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Speaker 2: Not knowing we're hounds, you know every time what you're shooting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, or you just have Yeah, the opportunity, I think,

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Speaker 1: just the opportunity for let's say you're not buying hounds

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Speaker 1: and you're just out there trying to find it, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna the opportunities are slim. A lot of times, people

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Speaker 1: getting a rush, you're going to shoot the one they see, yep,

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Speaker 1: because it's legal, and there there's no like set you know,

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Speaker 1: target animal, you know, you call it trophy hunting, call

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Speaker 1: whatever you want. I don't care what people call it.

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Speaker 1: To this point, like and in our opinion, it's the

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Speaker 1: best way to manage that species is an overall is

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Speaker 1: behind helens and I.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you take heunds out of any state

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Speaker 2: and watch the predators. Yeah, it's it's it's a wonderful tool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in Washington where you know, any helmsman that's

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Speaker 1: left is the rebel at this point. You know, some

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Speaker 1: of them stayed on but and it might just be

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Speaker 1: more time I spent in the woods. But I've seen

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Speaker 1: more cats on the on their feet like daylight in

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Speaker 1: the last ten years, and I did for the twenty

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Speaker 1: years before then, you know, And it's our cat populations

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Speaker 1: are bad, which you know, I'm not going to sit

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Speaker 1: here and get into you know, unridd populations. And there's

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Speaker 1: these ebbs and flows, and we're just not in a

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Speaker 1: good spot right now. And as much as you say

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Speaker 1: they'll balance themselves out, they will. But now all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, these cats are day and you're starving because

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Speaker 1: now there aren't enough, and it's like, well, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to see the cat stuff for either, So let's

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Speaker 1: just balance them, keep the deal. Let's keep them all

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Speaker 1: as high as we can get them and have the

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Speaker 1: best population is you know, basically the highest density of

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Speaker 1: the landscape. Behold is what we should shoot for and

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Speaker 1: then balance everything to that. But yeah, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: interesting and and I hate when people say it's not.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, show me a fair way to manage

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Speaker 1: cat populations. There isn't one than no behind hounds. I

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Speaker 1: don't believe, you know, bears maybe bait. You know, bait

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Speaker 1: could be argued potentially, yes or no. You know, we

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Speaker 1: we got to bear hunt last year, and sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: sometimes tough to get your big bears up a tree

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Speaker 1: and and maybe hew, you know you have you said

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Speaker 1: you've preed big bears as well as little ones, though

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Speaker 1: you know there're maybe bait is just as equal or

362
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Speaker 1: maybe better worse than certain spots, but you know, it's

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Speaker 1: aside from that, like just you know, gloss of them

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Speaker 1: and stuff. Sometimes unless you're in the right train, just

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Speaker 1: isn't the best way to to manage those either.

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Speaker 2: No, no, it's not.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna roll into a little bit of the image

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Speaker 1: of the hound hunter, and I'm curious. I'm gonna kind

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Speaker 1: of preface us with I think there's bad apples in

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Speaker 1: every group, but can you kind of elaborate a little bit.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about this, like you know, you talked about

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Speaker 1: an area where some hell hunters you know, just refuse

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Speaker 1: to throw us some paperwork and got it shut down

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Speaker 1: for all you guys, and some of this stuff like

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Speaker 1: the perception of Helen hunters. Can you like clarify that

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Speaker 1: or elaborate a little bit on that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like you said that a few bad

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Speaker 2: apples can make the whole tree look bad, because I've

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Speaker 2: seen it so many times. And I would just encourage

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Speaker 2: anybody that's listening and thinking about getting in hounds or anything,

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Speaker 2: you know, just just remember, you know, we don't have

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Speaker 2: the greatest name unfortunately from those bad apples. So I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, I know hound hunters have broke a lot

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Speaker 2: of gate locks off the gates. I mean that's to

385
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Speaker 2: go get their dogs or go get their dogs, and

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Speaker 2: you know, and I get it in wolfy country and

387
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Speaker 2: they're nervous, you know, some of them, you know, might

388
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Speaker 2: have made that decision on that. I don't know, but

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Speaker 2: it's not good. You know. We just need to we

390
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Speaker 2: need to prove to everybody that you know, we're we're

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Speaker 2: fair chase and we're responsible enough to do this, and

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Speaker 2: we're not tearing up roads or tearing up gates or

393
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Speaker 2: or trespassing on property. You know, we've got to you know,

394
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Speaker 2: be aware of all that stuff and and keep keep

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Speaker 2: it clean. And but I've seen it. I think the

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Speaker 2: biggest thing with with hound guys is how they take

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Speaker 2: care of their dogs. I've heard that from you and

398
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Speaker 2: other people so many times. You know, I've been at

399
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Speaker 2: trade shows and had people walk up to me and say,

400
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Speaker 2: I just don't like how you guys take care of

401
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Speaker 2: your dogs. You know, you guys so like again back

402
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Speaker 2: to the few business. So yeah, I mean unfortunately, you know,

403
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Speaker 2: I you know, hound hunters, a few of them, you know,

404
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 2: especially the old school ones were pretty rough on dogs,

405
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Speaker 2: maybe shooting them and shooting them in front of people

406
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Speaker 2: or whatever because they did something they weren't supposed to,

407
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Speaker 2: or are beating them with a stick real hard. And

408
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Speaker 2: you know, now we've got shot collar.

409
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, technologies helped you guys out in the training.

410
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Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, I was telling you the story

411
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Speaker 1: earlier a guy that I knew, and it was specifically

412
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Speaker 1: cat dogs. Right, So what you sometimes run is bear kyos.

413
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Speaker 1: Everything else is trash. They only want them to run cats.

414
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Speaker 1: And I can remember, you know, dogs getting back to

415
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Speaker 1: the truck and getting on the wrong whack, you know,

416
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Speaker 1: getting beat and you know, I didn't ever see any

417
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Speaker 1: get cold, but you know, you hear about like these

418
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 1: guys were so hardcore that you know, if you didn't

419
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Speaker 1: you know, belong in the bloodline, and they felt it

420
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Speaker 1: was like their dude to take it out. And you're like,

421
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Speaker 1: holy smokes, I try. Even though I hunt, I still

422
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 1: love animals, and like, I don't know, but yeah, it's

423
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Speaker 1: they get a bad rap on on a lot of

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Speaker 1: that in the way that they treat their animals. And

425
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Speaker 1: like you said, you're you know, if it doesn't hunt,

426
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Speaker 1: then it'll make somebody else a pet, you know. Yeah,

427
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 1: And I like that because it's not maybe the way

428
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,160
Speaker 1: it was back where I come from, you know, where

429
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,920
Speaker 1: there were hound hunters, right.

430
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've gave a handful of them away that I

431
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,359
Speaker 2: knew they were going to get hunts, and shoot, they

432
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 2: lived really good. The next thing they know, they're living

433
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 2: in the house and just one of the they make

434
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 2: a great pet, really, I mean a great house dog,

435
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 2: a hound kind of like a black lab or something.

436
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 2: You know, they're real calm dogs for the most part,

437
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 2: especially when they get older. But yeah, I've never I've

438
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 2: never agreed with shooting a dog because it didn't you know,

439
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 2: it didn't work out for you, or it didn't do

440
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 2: what you wanted it too. So that's bad. Again, that's

441
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 2: only a few people that we're talking about, you hound guys.

442
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, and I'm gonna spur I'm gonna kind of

443
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 1: take this bad rap there and hopefully we want to

444
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 1: talk about this and not just told me to go fight. Guys, like,

445
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 1: some of your dogs do get injured in the process

446
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 1: of hound hunting, right, and you found veterinarians that label

447
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: hound hunters as bad people, that you're putting your dogs

448
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 1: at risk. And you guys struggle sometimes to find anybody

449
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 1: that'll repair your dogs. And you treat these things like

450
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: your family, so it be like some doctor telling you

451
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,159
Speaker 1: I'm not going to fix your kid up. You know

452
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 1: it is, basically, But you guys struggle even finding bets

453
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,479
Speaker 1: that want to work on you know, hunting dogs or

454
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:06,159
Speaker 1: work dogs.

455
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that seems to be getting hard. That seems

456
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 2: to be getting really hard. If you have a great

457
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 2: bet and you're a hound guy, and you're listening, You're lucky.

458
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, unfortunately, I've got some you know, taking

459
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 2: dogs in for bare bites and stuff. And again, these

460
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 2: dogs are doing what they They're hurt and want to

461
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 2: keep hunting. They love it. I mean you've seen them.

462
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 2: They hate to be left home. But yeah, every once

463
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 2: in a while, you know, they'll get caught by a

464
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 2: bear and need stitches or whatever. And I've got some

465
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 2: strange looks at bets and had them you know, pretty

466
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 2: much tell me they weren't well. Actually, all this backup.

467
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 2: So I have this three legged dog not gatling. Actually

468
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 2: she had four legs, her back legs she couldn't use

469
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 2: very well. And I wanted to make a cross before

470
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 2: she died with another male I had and anyway, so

471
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 2: I tried to make the cross with them. Well, her

472
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 2: back hit. She just fall to the ground every time

473
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 2: mel got on her. You know, they couldn't do it naturally.

474
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 2: So I really wanted to cross. I said, well, I'll

475
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 2: just do it artificially. I'll just get a hold of

476
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 2: the bet. And so I got a hold of the

477
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 2: bet and made the appointment. I had a bear hunter,

478
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 2: I think client here, So I called and asked my

479
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 2: mom if she could run the two dogs over for

480
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 2: their appointment and get that done, and yeah, I'll do that.

481
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 2: And anyway, she called me and said, hey, the bets

482
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 2: wouldn't do this, and I was like, what do you

483
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 2: mean they wouldn't do it? And she said, well, they're hounds,

484
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: so they refused to do it. And I was like,

485
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: you're kidding me, and so yeah, I'm don't use that

486
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 2: bet again, but they but yeah, I was just blown

487
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: away that when they found out they were they were

488
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 2: fine with doing it until she got there and they

489
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 2: realized they were hunting dogs, and then they refused to

490
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 2: do it, and that's just like really But anyways, so yeah,

491
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 2: a good bet, you got one, keep it.

492
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy that they would discriminate against like

493
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: hunting dog or what purpose was versus a you know,

494
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,400
Speaker 1: a non hunting dog. But anyways, well we're gonna jump

495
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,159
Speaker 1: into like in your opinion, like the the impact of

496
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 1: hound hunting on like wildlife populations. We can all agree that,

497
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: you know, killing predators has an impact on the but

498
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: then those predators would also kill you know, the ungulits,

499
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: and so how does this all kind of balance out?

500
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: Like in your opinion, is how you know, how does

501
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: hound hunting insert itself as a management tool, you know,

502
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 1: for for the health of all species.

503
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I couldn't imagine what our deer and

504
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 2: elk population would be without hound. I mean, I just

505
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,400
Speaker 2: here in Idaho because I've hunted these cats for years now,

506
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: and I've seen one. Let me let me say this though,

507
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 2: about cats. I will say this about cats that I

508
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: can't say about wolves. I've found a lot of kills

509
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 2: that you know, deer and elk that mainly deer. I

510
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: do finding more deer than I do l but I've

511
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 2: literally seen them. They most of the time, they eat

512
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 2: that kill all the way up. They cover it up

513
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 2: every night they come back, so they're only killing what

514
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: they eat. And I like that about lions. But again,

515
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 2: you know, a big tom like you killed yesterday is

516
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 2: killed a lot of deer and elk. I mean, I

517
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 2: don't know for sure, but I would say he's probably killed,

518
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 2: especially in an adult life, he's probably killed every seven

519
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 2: to fourteen days, because I've tracked him around and seen

520
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 2: where they killed and then tracked him and where they've

521
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 2: killed another one. You know, and I've actually hunted them,

522
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 2: you know where they were. I didn't catch him for

523
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 2: several days back to the easy right and several days

524
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 2: to catch him. And literally known he's been traveling for

525
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,959
Speaker 2: four days. I know he hasn't eight. He's looking for

526
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 2: something to kill. But so you add that up, that's

527
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,719
Speaker 2: just one lion. I mean, if you don't manage them.

528
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 2: And again I don't kill every lion I catch, and

529
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 2: I don't kill females. But that's killing a lot of

530
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 2: deer and elk. So I mean, if you took if

531
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 2: you took the hound hound hunting out of that, holy smokes.

532
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, because because there's nothing I mean we talked yesterday,

533
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: you know, aside from wolves and they got a big

534
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: tom's just gonna run up a tree. Still, it's take

535
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: like big cougars don't have any natural creditors for the

536
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: most part, right, they live on the landscape is an

537
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: apex and you know these things, like you said seven

538
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: to fourteen days, so you know everybody always says one

539
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: a week, but let's say seven to fourteen. You know

540
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: they're killing at least forty to sixty you know, deer,

541
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: elk or kills throughout the year. And it's like that's

542
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: a lot in the you know, same with bears. You know,

543
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: he hunting bears. You know, those things are eating a

544
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,959
Speaker 1: ton of fawns in the in the you know, spring

545
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: and when they start to drop or you know, early

546
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: summer at that time, and it's like you know, the yeah,

547
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: they will you know, take berry, they'll take whatever. There

548
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: there's an opportunist. And so it's like by by helping

549
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 1: you know, manage that bear population as well, you're making

550
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: sure that you know, you're you're you're keeping your ungulate

551
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: population is hopefully as healthy as you can, right.

552
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I've seen I've seen where bears, you know,

553
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 2: especially it really worked the fawns over in kyotes. You know,

554
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 2: I don't hunt coyotes much, but that's another thing that

555
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 2: there's a lot I feel like coyotes. You know, I'm

556
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: glad you guys are making predator calls because you know,

557
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: I mean I've seen it, you know, lion hunting in

558
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 2: the wintertime where these coyotes are taking down deer, like

559
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: three or four of them. I've seen it, you know,

560
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 2: in the snow, don't lie. You can see that they've

561
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: ran them down and caught them, whether they had a

562
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 2: broken leg the deer or whatever. I don't know, but

563
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 2: so that's another thing. Predators need managed bad. I mean,

564
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: all of them, and I don't want to wipe them

565
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 2: out because I enjoy hunting them, you know. So it's

566
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: a fine line, you know, And and that's why, you know,

567
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 2: I don't want to say I necessarily four quotas or anything,

568
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: but you know, quotas on females, you know, I think

569
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: is a good deal. So you don't completely wipe them out,

570
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: you know, but but you kill enough of them to

571
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: because you know, again I don't kill females, but you

572
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 2: think of a female raising three yearlings. They're killing a

573
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: lot of deer. Yeah, yeah, she's killing a lot of

574
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 2: the feed. Yeah, they probably kill more. Well, I know,

575
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 2: they kill more than a tongue. So let's rule.

576
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote Dirk scientific fact, and I don't

577
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: know the study. He was mentioning that there was a

578
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: study where you know, a cougar, you're seven to fourteen days,

579
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: but then they found that this cougar was killing more

580
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: and more, you know, three to five times a week,

581
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: right in the study. And then you look back and

582
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,719
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, that cat was killing on necessity

583
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: because it kept getting its kill stolen from the wolves.

584
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: You know, until you add this in where it's like

585
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: you had wolves back in the landscape. Now these cats,

586
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: which are maybe better killers than these wolves, are now

587
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: killing three to five times as much. And now all

588
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it doesn't take long for the balance

589
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: to be way out of whack, right, because these wolves

590
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: now moved in and this created this killing is free basically, yeah,

591
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: because I mean, lions are killers.

592
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: You know, I feel like they're more successful. You think

593
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: of your house cut out here killing these mice and everything.

594
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: I mean, lions are successful hunters and more successful I

595
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 2: think than the wolves. But I think a kill a

596
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: lion killed, one lion can eat on a kill longer.

597
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

598
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: So if you've got to pack of wolves and I

599
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 2: know this is this has happened, you know where they're

600
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: fallowing the lion around, you know, that's creating a lion,

601
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: you know, running the lion off the kill, that's creating

602
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 2: the lion.

603
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: To kill more.

604
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: And that's not good. And yeah, it's just.

605
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: Unbalanced, del and you get you mentioned a little bit,

606
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: and it might even be changing the characteristics of these

607
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: cats a little bit. Where they're having to be a

608
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: little bit tougher and realizing like, all right, maybe I

609
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: can fight off these wolves. Well, you know it's over.

610
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: You've talked about like the effect that it's even you

611
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: guys feel maybe he's had on your dogs as of late,

612
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: where these cats getting a little bolder, a little tougher,

613
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: and let you know what, I've you know, warded off

614
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: some wolves on enough like maybe I'm gonna I'm gonna,

615
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: you know, start to not be so scared of your

616
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: dog is at a point which isn't good for Heleneman

617
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: at all.

618
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: No, And I mean that's just their survival.

619
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: You know.

620
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: They they've been around for a long timeline, so they

621
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 2: they know how to survive. And I'm pretty sure you

622
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 2: know this, this is my theory, you know. But this

623
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: would have been in like I want to say, two

624
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 2: thousand and five or something. The wolves are bad here.

625
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 2: I'm they're managed now and where it's better here in Idaho.

626
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: But but a lot of wolves. And we were hunting

627
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 2: and I had had a buddy with me with a

628
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,479
Speaker 2: nice hound that he had plot dog, and I had

629
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 2: a plot dog. Anyways, I had an old track, so

630
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 2: I ended up walking with these dogs for a while.

631
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 2: Well they ended up taking this track. And anyways, I

632
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: heard this. I'm telling the story pretty quick, but I

633
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: heard this got awful squeal down there that I thought

634
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 2: that was the dog, but I wasn't sure. And I thought, well,

635
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 2: did they jump and go out of hearing already or what.

636
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: But I just never heard the sound again. Well, anyways,

637
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: in the meanwhile, my dog had veered off on another track,

638
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: going backwards, actually on a track, and my buddy's dog

639
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: was off to the right, you know, I could tell.

640
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: And I was still using the peepers back then. But anyways,

641
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: I walked down to where I heard the noise just

642
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 2: to kind of see. And I get down there and

643
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: I see nothing but blood just everywhere. And there's that

644
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 2: plot dog, Frank was his name, laying there dead, and

645
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: I'm like, what in the world. And I started looking

646
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: there and the lion had to kill, you know, and

647
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 2: was laying there, and the dog jumped up on the

648
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 2: log there and the lion was just waiting for it.

649
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 2: I could see what everything happened, and it just bit

650
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: it one time through the top of the head. It

651
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: just had those puncture holes in the top of the

652
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: dog's head. And so my theory was always that they've

653
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: learned to fight, because I mean, anybody the town hunting

654
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 2: for a long time, it's rare. I mean, yesterday was

655
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: rare with your lion. You know, it bade the dogs

656
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: and stuff. But you know where there's trees where we're

657
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 2: hunting up here in northern Idaho and stuff, and there's

658
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 2: a lot of trees like it is so rare to

659
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 2: bay up and for a lion to fight. I think

660
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: I can only think of about three times it's happened

661
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 2: to me in thirty years of whatever doing it. So

662
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 2: I always felt like, and that's like I said, again,

663
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: that's when the wolves were real bad. I always felt

664
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: like and it was a big tom, big tom. I

665
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 2: always felt like it had to learn to fight canines

666
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: and it probably had fought some wolves off when a

667
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: hound was nothing, you know. And again that's just me thinking,

668
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 2: but I think there's probably a lot of truth to Yeah.

669
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, and let's get into you know, you guys,

670
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: you know, call them found that. I don't want to

671
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: equate them to your kids, but you know, for a

672
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: lot of you guys, they're they're part of your family.

673
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: Dog safety. And then we're gonna roll. We're kind of well,

674
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: we'll tell h you know, my hunt story, and we'll

675
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: kind of roll into some times where I was like,

676
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: I don't want this on my shoulders, and you know,

677
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: throughout this hunt, so we we you know, we finally

678
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: get to the your location and we get down there,

679
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: you know, and we get to the tree and we're

680
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: we're looking at shot angles and it was in a

681
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: great spot and then we thought we had a shot. Well,

682
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: then he would slump on the tree and vidals, Well,

683
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: what you do to protect your dog? Because these animals,

684
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: whether it's a bear or whether it's a cougar, they're

685
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: they've got fear of the dogs until they're wounded or

686
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: until they can't run anymore. Right, right, They're willing to

687
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: go away from the dogs, but you've now put a

688
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: fatal shot or a non fatal shot, and they're not

689
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: as fast and the dogs get to them. It's it's

690
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: not gonna be good typically, right, So we get to

691
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: the tree. We're trying to fiddle around and look at

692
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: every different angle. We got guys going everywhere trying to

693
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: look at shot angles. It was way too steep. I

694
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: wasn't comfortable using my bow. So we were him and

695
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: hand around and you go one thing that you I'm

696
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: all hounds, but not just you. You got you go

697
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 1: and leash all your dogs to the tree right before

698
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: that time. If we're getting ready to shoot it. You

699
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: do not want your dogs to be able to get

700
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: to this cat during this wounded expiration phase, right, So

701
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: that's one thing that you do. So we're sitting there,

702
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: so that's that's vital. It's for the dog safety. You

703
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: care about these things. So the tree, we start to

704
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: see him get antsy and starts to get himself down

705
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: the tree. We're all out of position, dogs are, so

706
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 1: I remember it was a mad dash. You guys were

707
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: trying to keep it up the tree by knocking on it,

708
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: and the cat just didn't care, jumped out over our buddy,

709
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: your buddy, Tim's I just met him yesterday, Tim's head

710
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 1: and he's off again. Well then it's a mad scramble.

711
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: We'll get the dogs loose so we can hopefully retreat

712
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: it because now we're working again, it's time. One thing

713
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: I love about technology is you had ran off in

714
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: the direction that the cat and then your dogs quickly

715
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: went and we were trying to get all of our gear,

716
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: grab packs, do everything, you know, grab leashes, and we

717
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: come in here and we all kind of get back

718
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: to your everbody sit down. They're coming back. You could

719
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: see on and we sat down, and you said, it's

720
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: not very rare. I just assumed, well, this always happened

721
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: this way. Like you can see this cat start slothering

722
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: down the creek and then it turns right in front

723
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: of us at what forty yards? Yeah, And I always

724
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: assumed on these cat races that it's everything's sprinting all

725
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,240
Speaker 1: out right. No, this cat was low, he was tired, quiet,

726
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: I mean, but he was and he held dogs dogs

727
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 1: close to him, just like he was gonna slowly get away.

728
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: Dogs came around the corner maybe twenty seconds behind, kind

729
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: of get there, catching up to him. Getting the track

730
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: heated up, and you'd mentioned the dogs were a little tired,

731
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: you know. I had to have some time off with

732
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: all your trade shows. And they finally they're milling around

733
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: and they're on the same trail and at the same time,

734
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 1: we're watching the cat get higher on this steep steep

735
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: rock and we're watching the dogs and and you kind

736
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: of watch this cat like he doesn't really want a tree.

737
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: He doesn't really want to get away from the dogs anymore.

738
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: Like we didn't know at this time what was going

739
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: to happen. And one of your dogs, you might know

740
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: which one bark was. It was on the kind of

741
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: what I'm my terminology is horrible, a hot bark, like

742
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: it was a different bark than what they had been doing.

743
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: And the cat skewed it real quick. But you we

744
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: got the coolest sillho whatever. This cat walks out onto

745
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: this rock, which looked very flat from from our side, right,

746
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: and then you see it turn around. And the first

747
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: thing that goes through my head is all these desert

748
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: hunts or Rocky Mountain, you know, rocky southern desert hunts

749
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: where you know they bay upcause don't have a tree

750
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 1: to climb at times. And I think you and Tim

751
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: and everybody, I think we all thought about the same

752
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: Illinois's going to bay up, and you you weren't. I

753
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,720
Speaker 1: don't blame this on you. You're just letting me know a situation.

754
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 1: I know this isn't good for the dog. You know

755
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 1: you mentioned something I'm gonna get a dog killed here

756
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: or something, so you you kind of take off me

757
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: and you bump way forward and I think dirt chase.

758
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: And then we got up there and then you you

759
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: put a lot of pressure on me because you're like

760
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: you've got to make a good shot here because my

761
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 1: dogs are there, Like this isn't in a tree, they're

762
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: not leashed up, a little different situation than ninety nine

763
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: percent of them. Is this cat, you know? And for

764
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: those that don't know Beta bears cats, basically, they're not

765
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: climbing a tree at this point. They're gonna sit and

766
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: fight on the ground and swipe and hiss and they're

767
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: they're now defending their ground at this point, this cat,

768
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: we assume had been on the rock before, very sharp,

769
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: very tough for the dogs to get out to where

770
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: this cat had got to. But like so I'm not

771
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: gonna jump into the shot right now, but explain when

772
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 1: now we're in a different situation than the first tree.

773
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: You don't have dogs on the leash. Your dogs are

774
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: tree to be all over this cat. Now we're shooting

775
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: and hoping that dogs, you know, Like we're making very clear,

776
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,240
Speaker 1: like we can't see the dogs because we're very steep,

777
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: rocky pinnacle country where we're trying that me and you

778
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: were talking like where to hit him? You know, you

779
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: almost want to shock the spine, so there's a move

780
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: You need to get a lethal shot so he's not

781
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: just sitting there paralyzed. What's that like as a hell

782
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: and guy? When the cat's on the ground, Like, have

783
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: you seen them like expire and not move whereas like

784
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: are typically is there going to be a little bit

785
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,919
Speaker 1: of a skirmage afterward? Like what's the risk both bear

786
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: and cougar for when these things get wounded? Are they

787
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: just more tenacious the dogs? You can get on and

788
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a fight? Like what are all your

789
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: concerns at that point for dog safety?

790
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 2: And well, yeah, there was a lot going through my

791
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 2: mind yesterday, you know, I mean when you were talking

792
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: to back up a little bit when it was coming

793
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 2: through the tree. You know, we talked about maybe shooting then,

794
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 2: but you're better off to have a a bay up

795
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 2: job without a wounded cat, I mean, no doubt. And

796
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 2: when a gunshot goes off, the brains leave from the dogs.

797
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: They just assume it's dead, you know, And so the

798
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 2: cat's adrenalines going, the dog's adrenalines going, and that's when

799
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 2: something gets hurt. So that's why I made it, because

800
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 2: you had a shot, you know, but I just didn't

801
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 2: feel good about it. So I was split second decision

802
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 2: and decided not to shoot there. Okay, Well, then when

803
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 2: it got on the rock, you know it was, I

804
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 2: was pretty confident there wasn't no dogs around it. I

805
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 2: don't have a lot of experience with cats on the

806
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: ground because they don't bay, especially in this country where

807
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 2: we're hunting like that very often. I mean, it's rare.

808
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 2: So so I did have a lion tagg in my pocket,

809
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 2: and I know that, and I appreciate it, you know,

810
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 2: You're like, hey, you know you want to shoot it

811
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 2: because I don't want to hurt a dog, and I do.

812
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 2: I really do appreciate that. But my good buddy Dirk

813
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 2: has told me how well you do under pressure, and

814
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 2: you definitely proved it yesterday.

815
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: So but.

816
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 2: So I just say, like I bear you know, the

817
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 2: ones I've killed on the ground myself personally, I had

818
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 2: shoot him, you know, And I thought about having you

819
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 2: head shooting. Now. I know you could have got it

820
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 2: the way I watched to shoot yesterday, or a good shot,

821
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 2: but I just figured behind the front shoulder and I

822
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 2: knew in my head it was going to roll off

823
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 2: the rock, and I knew there wasn't a dog there.

824
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,959
Speaker 2: My biggest fears the dogs were going to get closer

825
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 2: because they hadn't got up on the rock yet, and

826
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 2: they would have, you know. And so I think it

827
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 2: just the timing worked out perfect. I seen you had

828
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 2: to rest and the dogs weren't right in his face yet,

829
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 2: and I was like, he's gonna shoot, and if he

830
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: hits it right, it'll roll off the back of that rock.

831
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 2: And I think the dogs will be smart enough if

832
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 2: we would have waited and the dogs were more face

833
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 2: to face, you know, and you made a bad shot.

834
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 2: And I've seen this and heard about it. You know,

835
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: where a cat, you know, if you would have made

836
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 2: a bad shot and there was a dog right there,

837
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 2: it's going to grab a dog and go off the

838
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:03,720
Speaker 2: place with the dog.

839
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: And that was my big spirence.

840
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 2: So I just felt good. And typically we would have

841
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 2: been probably better off, Like if even if I would

842
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: have been by myself, I might have tried to walk

843
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 2: up there and just get the dogs with a leash,

844
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 2: holl them off, you know, then taking the chance to

845
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 2: wound it. But again, I had confidence in you, and

846
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 2: you know you did good.

847
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: It worked out good, like we you know, caught all lungs.

848
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: We shocked the spine on the way through. Let's talk

849
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,479
Speaker 1: a little bit about weapon of choice. There were times

850
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: I wish I had a gun with the scope, but

851
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: you guys, it seems like thirty to thirty is always

852
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: the gun of choice. Or you know some lever action?

853
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: Is that for quick follow up shots? Is that for

854
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: is the is that bullet going slow enough where it's

855
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: gonna put all of its energy? Like explain why you

856
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: go open site and bagun and.

857
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, open sites definitely. I have learned. And the guy,

858
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 2: you know, several years of guiding, now, I actually like

859
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 2: scopes too. If I have a client that that here

860
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 2: hunt and I want him to have a scope because

861
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 2: you know, most people are good at shooting the scopes.

862
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,479
Speaker 2: But the reason I had you guys bring a thirty

863
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 2: thirty is just experience, you know, and most of the time,

864
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 2: I mean, our original plan was you were going to

865
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 2: shoot it with the bow. Yeah, you know, and I knew.

866
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,919
Speaker 3: That if I if you made a bad shot with

867
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 3: the with the bow, we're probably now it's going to

868
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: be on the ground and now it's going to be

869
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 3: getting shots off really quick.

870
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 2: And that's where the open sites come in handy, because

871
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 2: you can see what's going on around you. And I

872
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 2: definitely like that on a bait up bear because you

873
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 2: go shooting at a bait up bear with a scope,

874
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 2: you can't really see where the dogs are, and then

875
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 2: it's really dangerous for the dog. You might shoot a dog.

876
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 2: And so there's there's some of the reasons I like

877
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 2: a good and thirty thirty. You know, you can't go

878
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 2: wrong with a good old thirty thirty.

879
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 1: You know, Well, I'm glad you guys had you and

880
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 1: Tyrell didn't have a whole lot of faith in my

881
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: archery ability because the gun was down the hill with us.

882
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 1: This way, he ultimately needed to use it, So I know, reality,

883
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: I don't know if this guy can shoot a bow,

884
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: so just bring the gun in case. But no, it

885
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: worked out good. Like and I'm gonna touch on this

886
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: a little bit and some people might frown up me.

887
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: I look at when you've treed a cat or a bear,

888
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: Archery at that point doesn't matter to me. Like archery

889
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: elk is different, archery deer is different. You're like this

890
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: scene is trapped in a tree. To me, it's just

891
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: a weapon to dispatch the animal at that point, and

892
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: so I wasn't that hung up. I did bring my bow.

893
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: I like, you know, it's cool, but it's like man,

894
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: in the end, it's just a way to dispatch the

895
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: animal that's stuck in a tree. Yep, you know. And

896
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: that's what I looked at it. It wasn't didn't need

897
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: to be a bow kill.

898
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: But yeah, one hundred percent. I mean, I I'm the

899
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 2: exact matter of fact, you know, which I've only killed

900
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 2: a couple lions personally myself, and I've said that before,

901
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 2: but you know I've been responsible all of the a

902
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 2: lot of them dying. But I I'm the same way

903
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 2: Jason and I've killed. I don't matter of fact, I

904
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 2: don't even hunt here with a bow. You do, and

905
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 2: not that I wouldn't. Just we have a good rifle

906
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 2: season around here where I hunt stuff and I do that.

907
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: But you know, I've killed lots of bear, a few lions.

908
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: I love to.

909
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: Archery elkut, especially with Phelps game appreciate it.

910
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: But so.

911
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 2: I I could have shot lots of barn lions with

912
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 2: a bow. But I'm kind of like you were. It's like,

913
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 2: I may as well just use a gun. It's right here.

914
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 2: So I kind of agree with you. And I get

915
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 2: a lot of clients that bring bows, and they asked me,

916
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, I don't want it to be

917
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 2: a deal breaker. You can bring your bow and stuff.

918
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 2: But I will say that I and I've trapped plenty

919
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 2: wounded with a rifle too though. But you know, like

920
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 2: this year, we wounded one and I hated to see that.

921
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 2: And once once you shoot, and the problem with the

922
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 2: cat in the tree most of the time, once you

923
00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 2: get one shot and it goes airborne of the time,

924
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 2: and you're lucky, even with an open sites, you're lucky

925
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 2: to get another shot most of the time. So you

926
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 2: have one shot, and then I'm not willing to turn

927
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:08,720
Speaker 2: my dogs.

928
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't know if they're going to get you're

929
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: gonna get back up a tree, if they're going to

930
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:13,919
Speaker 1: bay up at that point, so your dogs are out

931
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: of the Yeah, it's just you and the cat at

932
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: that point.

933
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 2: It's just me and the cat. Because I just feel

934
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 2: like that's and there's a lot of people that turn

935
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,359
Speaker 2: loose on on I'm not trying to say they're wrong

936
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,879
Speaker 2: or anything, But I personally ain't turning my dogs loose

937
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 2: on a wounded cat because that's just asking for it

938
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 2: for a dog to get hurt that bills, and I

939
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: don't want to. They are like my kids, like you

940
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier. I mean, these dogs are part of my family,

941
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 2: have been my whole life, and I don't know what

942
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 2: I do without them. So like, the last thing I

943
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 2: want to do is put them.

944
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: In harms way.

945
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 2: They're in harms way and not ye, yeah, that's really

946
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 2: putting them in harms way. And and they're special. These

947
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 2: dogs are special, you know. I mean you've hunted with

948
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 2: Mallory and stuff. And I've done this for a really

949
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 2: long time, my whole life. You know, I always say

950
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 2: twenty five thirty years, but really a good since uh

951
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 2: my dad was packing me in the trees. You know,

952
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,399
Speaker 2: I've done this for a really long time. And I

953
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 2: know you take a dog like my Mallory dog there,

954
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: and I know in my mind that I probably will

955
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 2: never own another dog like her. I mean, she once

956
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 2: in a lifetime dog and it I couldn't replace her.

957
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 2: There's no, there's no I've been offered a lot of

958
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 2: money for you know how much money I've put in,

959
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: and she's not for sale because I will never ever,

960
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 2: probably more likely own another dog like that. And and

961
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 2: that's I can say that because I've done this so

962
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: long and I've owned a lot of good ones, but

963
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 2: a dog like that would be beat or hard to beat.

964
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 2: So I just any of them, even my worst dog

965
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 2: down there, I don't want to put in harms. They're

966
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 2: really special to us.

967
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: So those wounded want you know, you're just you're they're

968
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: tied up from that point on and you were your

969
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: client or you're on.

970
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 2: Foot just like you're ilk looking for blood.

971
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yeah, that's yeah. So I mean, like

972
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: we got to see some cool stuff. Got to see

973
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 1: a cat try to slither away through the woods, like

974
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if he knew we were there or not,

975
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: but he acted like he didn't know we were there,

976
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: just kind of you know, snuck through there and you know,

977
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: bad up. And it was a cool hunt, like like

978
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,320
Speaker 1: you say, And there were times, you know, if we

979
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: had like a reader board over our head with like

980
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: percentages of killing this thing, we started a one hundred

981
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 1: percent and then when that thing jumped out of the tree,

982
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: I want to say we were down in single digits,

983
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: maybe because one now we're racing the clock to get

984
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 1: to a new tree before dark. You know, all of

985
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: these things working against us. And we you know, as

986
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: he came up and bade up, right, we're back up.

987
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: But then the risk of hurting a dog goes up.

988
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: You know, I had no doubt it would die, but

989
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: is it going to die fast enough before it gets

990
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: ahold of the dog or multiple dogs? And no, it

991
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: all worked out good. It was you know, I can't

992
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,240
Speaker 1: think you enough for for you know, helping me out

993
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 1: alongside me, and it was awesome. And yeah, like I

994
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: say that, you know, we've got to help with you

995
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: a couple of times, you know, bear and cougar. Dirk's

996
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: got to hunt with your cougar Bear and now cougar again.

997
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: And you know this was a buddy hunt. But you

998
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: know you do outfit for these as well. And uh,

999
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,439
Speaker 1: you know I can thank me and Dirk both put

1000
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: our stamp of approval on you know, you and Amy,

1001
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 1: you know, work your tails off run a great operation. Yeah,

1002
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: I think you know, I appreciate it, you know, even

1003
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 1: as far as you know, like you tell a lot

1004
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: about by people's kids, Like your kids are awesome, Like

1005
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 1: you guys do an awesome job. It's a family, you know,

1006
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: it's family run. You know, coops out there. You know.

1007
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: It's just it's cool. I really like the experience. And

1008
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: like I said, I think you do it right. And

1009
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 1: one thing that you can never explain through these and

1010
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: you try to get across, it's just like how hard

1011
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: you're gonna work for your clients. You know. It's like

1012
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: you you know, and I can tell this this hunt

1013
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: we're kind of waiting for the right weather, and you

1014
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: could just tell like how nervous you were to to

1015
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: have us come early or to like be here when

1016
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: we don't have the right weather. And you know, like

1017
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: and you know, talking to Tyrol yesterday is like man

1018
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: if Bradley had like you know, paying clients right now,

1019
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: he would be in a nervous wreck, like trying to

1020
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 1: make all this work. But ye know, we appreciate everything

1021
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 1: you guys do. Like I said, it's it's it's awesome,

1022
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: you know, glad to have this friendship. And yeah, if

1023
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: you ever have any you know, I think as a houndsman,

1024
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes they get a bad rap, but you know,

1025
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,399
Speaker 1: Bradley's doing it right, and I can't thank you enough

1026
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: for all You're welcome.

1027
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's always a great time hanging out with

1028
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 2: you guys. And I just I really like your story.

1029
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: You know, how where you where you've been through and

1030
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 2: how hard you worked. You know, you've told me the story.

1031
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 2: We won't go into it, but how you you know

1032
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: you had a regular job and started your calls on

1033
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 2: the side and stuff. I just really respect that American dream.

1034
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, I'm as same thing you guys are doing,

1035
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: expanding and it's been awesome. Well, can you tell of

1036
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: our our listeners how to find more about you, where

1037
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 1: they can find you, ways to get a hold of

1038
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: you if they're interested.

1039
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so i'dhole whitetailguides dot com. We have a website

1040
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 2: and I'm on Instagram in Facebook. It seems like I'm

1041
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 2: on Instagram more. I've done that when I started that

1042
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: about when covid hit that Instagram thing and trying to

1043
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 2: build that up and stuff. So yeah, I appreciate that.

1044
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 2: Follow them, yeah, go check them out. We appreciate everything.

1045
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, until next time, we're thinking about coming

1046
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 1: back maybe May or June and chasing some bears around,

1047
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 1: so I'll look forward if we can make that happen.

1048
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's we better get her done. Yeah yeah yeah,

1049
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 2: last time, I think somebody got your bear.

1050
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: No, nobody owns a bear, but no. I used to

1051
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,919
Speaker 1: hold that against dirt, right, thank you, it's all good,

1052
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 1: all right, take care?

1053
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah thanks.

1054
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: I'd like to also let you know my Mountain Lion

1055
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 1: film is currently live right now on the Philips and

1056
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: Calls YouTube channel