Speaker 1: Welcome back once again. You're listening to it could happen
Speaker 1: here with the crew from Its Going Down taking over.
Speaker 1: This is our second show and we'll be doing a
Speaker 1: total of five episodes throughout the month of January. So
Speaker 1: if you like what you here, please let the amazing
Speaker 1: folks at cool Zone Media know. Yesterday we began by
Speaker 1: looking at general strikes in US history, starting with the
Speaker 1: mass plantation strike during the American Civil War. We spoke
Speaker 1: with labor historian Robert Ovetts about the revolutionary and bloody
Speaker 1: history of general strikes in the United States, and we
Speaker 1: also looked at the immigrant general strike in two thousand
Speaker 1: and six that successfully beat back drough Conian legislation that
Speaker 1: sought to further militarize the border and attack and documented people.
Speaker 1: On today's show, we're going to be looking at a
Speaker 1: general strike that was called for by Occupy Oakland, which
Speaker 1: took place on November two. Occupy Oakland was part of
Speaker 1: the much larger occupy movement that beginning New York with
Speaker 1: the occupation of Zukkati Park, but was seen as a
Speaker 1: radical focal point for the growing struggle. Starting as an
Speaker 1: occupation on October tent in front of Oakland City Hall
Speaker 1: named Oscar Grant Plaza. On October, IRAQ war veteran Scott
Speaker 1: Olsen was nearly killed after being shot with a police
Speaker 1: projectile during clashes between police and demonstrators as law enforcement
Speaker 1: attempted to evict the growing Oakland commune. Following the Olsen shooting,
Speaker 1: thousands reoccupied Oscar Grant Plaza and the general strike was
Speaker 1: called for A week later. Upwards of one hundred thousand
Speaker 1: people took part in the strikes associated actions, which included
Speaker 1: mass marches, a large anti capitalist black block which broke
Speaker 1: bank windows, and the shutting down of the Port of
Speaker 1: Oakland with upwards of one hundred thousand people participating. But
Speaker 1: before we hear from our guests on the subject, I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk a little bit about the occupy movement
Speaker 1: and Occupy Oakland and why it was so important. The
Speaker 1: occupy movement itself grew amidst this growing anger over the
Speaker 1: economic crisis, but also this fading belief in the hope
Speaker 1: and change promised by Obama. While not see it seemed
Speaker 1: to kind of sort of come out of nowhere, there
Speaker 1: were certainly things that really helped influence it. Naturally, there
Speaker 1: was the occupation by Chicago workers at the Republic Windows
Speaker 1: and Doors factory, which signaled a real turning point, as
Speaker 1: well as the occupation of the Wisconsin State Capital in
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven against anti union legislation, and all this
Speaker 1: was happened against the backdrop of the Arab Spring, and
Speaker 1: then in the Bay Area the Oscar Grant rebellion and
Speaker 1: riots in two thousand and nine and two thousand ten
Speaker 1: kicked off and had a massive impact, centering discussions around
Speaker 1: police race and white supremacy, as well as the role
Speaker 1: of rioting and social movements. At the same time, students
Speaker 1: and graduate workers occupied college campus buildings in New York
Speaker 1: and across California, which really spread the concept of occupying
Speaker 1: across the social terrain, as well as slogans like strike, occupied, takeover,
Speaker 1: and occupy everything. Now, the explosion of the occupy movement
Speaker 1: in the fall of two thousand eleven cannot be overstated.
Speaker 1: Occupying cam It's became a focal point for people angry
Speaker 1: at the general state of the world to gather discuss
Speaker 1: an act and they became a real focal point for encounter.
Speaker 1: While some cities saw these encampments come and go pretty quickly.
Speaker 1: Then he saw concrete projects and organizing come out of them.
Speaker 1: People were fighting to resist foreclosures, for instance, of a
Speaker 1: lot of cities, and for many people this was where
Speaker 1: they were introduced to anarchist concepts such as direct action,
Speaker 1: horizontal organizing, and consensus decision making, which really brought these
Speaker 1: ideas front and center to hundreds of thousands of people
Speaker 1: in a real and tangible way. And while a lot
Speaker 1: of people on the left from a variety of backgrounds
Speaker 1: took part, the real backbone of those involved and Occupy
Speaker 1: were just everyday people who were new to social movements
Speaker 1: and became activated by material conditions and just the zeitgeist
Speaker 1: of what was happening at the time. Occupy was fascinating
Speaker 1: for me, Like I was in the rest belt at
Speaker 1: the time. Still at the occupy, I was a part
Speaker 1: of the first march of five thousand people there. There
Speaker 1: may be like two or three hundred people at the
Speaker 1: general assemble the night before, So most of the people
Speaker 1: that showed up were not people currently connected at that
Speaker 1: point to any kind of political organizing. They were just
Speaker 1: people that showed up because they heard about it on
Speaker 1: the internet and they showed up to do the thing,
Speaker 1: and that camp a lot lasted nine months, but we
Speaker 1: can start to see the impacts that that kind of
Speaker 1: breakdown of that division between people who declare themselves political
Speaker 1: and quote everybody else. We start to move forward past Occupy,
Speaker 1: we start to see that manifest during my Ground Uprising
Speaker 1: and Ferguson. We start to see that manifest during the
Speaker 1: George Floyd Rebellion, where this kind of division between those
Speaker 1: that declare themselves to be political agents and those that
Speaker 1: have not declared themselves to be so just ceases to
Speaker 1: really exist. And it's in those moments where we really
Speaker 1: actually see uprisings occur. Occupied pointed out an important thing
Speaker 1: which is a fallacy in the way that we think,
Speaker 1: and that we think that radicals make revolts happen, when
Speaker 1: in reality, people make revolts happen, and our job is
Speaker 1: to antagonize circumstances. And it's only at the point in
Speaker 1: which that division breaks down between quote us and everybody else,
Speaker 1: that revolts actually occur. And Occupy it was a really
Speaker 1: important point in a trajectory of I think a sector
Speaker 1: of the American anarchist movement and a sector of the
Speaker 1: American political scene starting to really internalize that understanding, starting
Speaker 1: to really grasp how different that is from the way
Speaker 1: that we have been taught to organize. And we're still
Speaker 1: seeing the ramifications of a lot of that work today,
Speaker 1: many many many years later, looking at like occupy are
Speaker 1: looking at any of these big moments. When we look back,
Speaker 1: we can see all these things that like contribute to it,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think that this thing that you're
Speaker 1: spoking to Tom of like the kind of losing that
Speaker 1: thing of like professional activists or like the political actor
Speaker 1: in a situation is like so important, and I think
Speaker 1: that that is something that can really inspire us in
Speaker 1: terms of what's happening in this moment too, or like
Speaker 1: how general strikes happen, or how something that occupy happens.
Speaker 1: Is that things happen, like there are sort of moments
Speaker 1: that are kind of outside of our control. It's not
Speaker 1: something that can be like planned for, and if you
Speaker 1: do all the right things, then you get a general strike.
Speaker 1: But you can kind of like be related to circumstances
Speaker 1: and to each other and then different things happen. Um
Speaker 1: Like thinking about the George flood uprising in twenty like
Speaker 1: none of us predicted COVID, you know, and like how
Speaker 1: that might have contributed to what happened in that or
Speaker 1: just like all these different circumstances that come together to
Speaker 1: make these moments um and I think that you know,
Speaker 1: something like what's going on now we could look back
Speaker 1: and look at all these different things that are happening
Speaker 1: that then make something big happen and we never really
Speaker 1: know or can control that. A lot of the striking
Speaker 1: and occupy it serves the purpose of not us just
Speaker 1: coming together collectively, but it also serves as purpose of propaganda.
Speaker 1: And it just reminds me of this idea important idea
Speaker 1: of us occupying public spaces and the reason why we're
Speaker 1: not allowed to occupy public spaces because it's like sort
Speaker 1: of taking the power. And when there's lots of us
Speaker 1: occupied in public spaces, the media covers it and then
Speaker 1: it's like, well, what are these people talking about? What
Speaker 1: are they doing? And that would then itself also serves
Speaker 1: like as a propaganda mechanism to like spread so like
Speaker 1: I like just like listening to and I remember when again,
Speaker 1: like occupy was one of the moments that I was
Speaker 1: one of the people who viewed myself as not political
Speaker 1: but I cared about what was happening in the movement
Speaker 1: because that was the first time I heard we are
Speaker 1: I think about moments of radicalization that I think of
Speaker 1: this one as being one of them as a person
Speaker 1: who's just like recently and as a five years ago
Speaker 1: recently awoke, Like these are moments that I remember, like
Speaker 1: had an impact on me seeing people on the street
Speaker 1: taking public spaces, and I think that perhaps that's something
Speaker 1: that we should continue to do. And maybe it's not
Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like maybe not as
Speaker 1: large as occupy, maybe it's not consistently large, but like
Speaker 1: maybe we as civilians to just take over public spaces
Speaker 1: all the time, just as a reminder to ourselves that
Speaker 1: we do have the power to do that. Like we
Speaker 1: can't have a free store here because we want to.
Speaker 1: We don't have to ask the government for permission to
Speaker 1: do anything, Like I think it's a huge first step
Speaker 1: of becoming ungovernable and speaking of things that belong in
Speaker 1: a free store. We're now going to hear from our
Speaker 1: sponsors for us understand how the Oakland General strike of
Speaker 1: took place. We first have to go back to what
Speaker 1: made Occupy Oakland so important to so many people just
Speaker 1: a few short weeks in October. In the following interview,
Speaker 1: you speak with It's Going Down contributor, author and translator
Speaker 1: based in Mexico, Scott Campbell about his memories of occupy
Speaker 1: and what set the stage for a massive strike on
Speaker 1: November two. We didn't speak with Tova, who was involved
Speaker 1: in the Occupy Oakland Labor Solidarity Committee, about Bay Area
Speaker 1: labor unions becoming involved in the strike. So to kick
Speaker 1: things off, Scott tell us about Occupy Oakland, what it
Speaker 1: looked like, how life and Oscar Grand Plaza was organized,
Speaker 1: and about this living, breathing thing many came to call
Speaker 1: the Oakland Commune. If you were to walk into Occupy Oakland,
Speaker 1: I think you'd be overwhelmed. Um. It was an amazing, vibrant,
Speaker 1: self managed, auto jestive community where you had folks living
Speaker 1: there in in Oscar Grant Plaza. You had food, childcare,
Speaker 1: medical care, libraries, UM, all sorts of projects UM in
Speaker 1: a self run sort of directly democratic assembly based, communally
Speaker 1: organized space. And it was open to anyone except for
Speaker 1: police and politicians who wanted to come and participate in
Speaker 1: this sort of radical experiment, this radical form of being
Speaker 1: with one another outside the constraints of how society normally
Speaker 1: constructs us to perform and interact with one another. And
Speaker 1: I think what really stuck out to me the most
Speaker 1: during this time period was just the the welcoming atmosphere,
Speaker 1: the sense of potential that the camp um and the
Speaker 1: activities based around the camp held, the openness of people,
Speaker 1: and really the wide range of individuals who were participating
Speaker 1: in collectives who were participating, which certainly, of course led
Speaker 1: to differences of opinions at times that made that created
Speaker 1: some dynamics that were a struggle to work through and navigate,
Speaker 1: but at the same time really added to a sense
Speaker 1: of a space that went beyond a single project, that
Speaker 1: went beyond a single vision, but that was horizontal, communal,
Speaker 1: and open in a way that I had never experienced
Speaker 1: before and that I have yet to experience again. It
Speaker 1: definitely had an organic feel to it of of sort
Speaker 1: of people coming together, lending what skills they had, lending
Speaker 1: what resources they had across a variety of positions um
Speaker 1: that may be broadly categorized on the left or or
Speaker 1: post left spectrum, a spectrum of folks with a spectrum
Speaker 1: of capacities of needs um. I mean a large number
Speaker 1: of unhoused neighbors who were there, who brought their own
Speaker 1: life experiences and their own knowledge and their own skills
Speaker 1: to bear on the project, which I think was a really,
Speaker 1: I guess, a powerful learning opportunity for a lot of
Speaker 1: people who hadn't really been in direct contact with unhoused
Speaker 1: folks UM, and who were unfamiliar with really perhaps the
Speaker 1: impetus beyond Occupy Oakland and beyond Occupant, the impetus behind
Speaker 1: Occupy Oakland, and the impetus behind Occupy Wall Street in general,
Speaker 1: which was of course the two thousand and eight financial
Speaker 1: crash and the Great Depression and the bailout of the
Speaker 1: banks while people got fore clothes on their homes, especially
Speaker 1: people of color and black folks, which which hit particularly
Speaker 1: hard in England. And so we see all these dynamics
Speaker 1: coming together and trying to work themselves out organically without
Speaker 1: being mediated by any one organization or any particular ideology.
Speaker 1: And it was a powerful, confusing, messy, lively beautiful experience.
Speaker 1: How to categorize the general assembly is a is a
Speaker 1: great question, I think for me, how I interpreted it
Speaker 1: is it added a structural framework for how to navigate
Speaker 1: issues that would arise within the camp within the sort
Speaker 1: of occupation, for lack of a better word, of Oscar
Speaker 1: grand Plaza, facilitating the day to day functionings of things.
Speaker 1: In a lot of it was a decision making body.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't call it a government as such, because it
Speaker 1: tried to run on consensus or modified consensus, and anyone
Speaker 1: was free to bring proposals to the General Assembly that
Speaker 1: were free to bring their ideas for and promote their
Speaker 1: events and promote their actions and activities. A lot of
Speaker 1: decisions were also being made by people who just showed
Speaker 1: up to do the work without necessarily consulting the General Assembly,
Speaker 1: So you almost had different tiers of activity and different
Speaker 1: tiers of organization occurring in the same space. That seemed,
Speaker 1: again I go back to this word, that seemed to
Speaker 1: organically work itself out most of the time, and within
Speaker 1: the General Assembly that was the more formal structure where
Speaker 1: people came together at times nightly to discuss issues facing
Speaker 1: the camp, to discuss issues with in terms of um
Speaker 1: dealing with the police and the city government and eventually
Speaker 1: the state and federal government as they showed up to
Speaker 1: determine how to respond to various acts of aggression and
Speaker 1: attacks on the camp and attacks on the space, to
Speaker 1: figure out how to better run the space. Even to
Speaker 1: figure out how to better run the General Assembly itself
Speaker 1: was a big question within the General Assembly, and these
Speaker 1: were general assemblies that anyone could participate and you didn't
Speaker 1: have to show qualifications or necessarily be living in the space.
Speaker 1: Anyone was free except for the police and politicians, to
Speaker 1: come and speak to the General Assembly. I remember one
Speaker 1: time Gene Klon, then mayor of Oakland, wanted to come
Speaker 1: and speak to the General Assembly, and she was told
Speaker 1: she could, but she had to wait her turn, and
Speaker 1: so she decided to leave because she didn't want to wait.
Speaker 1: She didn't feel like she had to wait. It was
Speaker 1: really a space of encounter for people to bring up
Speaker 1: different aspects that there were concerning them, that they were
Speaker 1: working on, that they wanted to see flourish in the space.
Speaker 1: The biggest general assembly was happened around when to move
Speaker 1: forward with the general strike, but there were also general
Speaker 1: assemblies on on things like issues around smoking and people's
Speaker 1: health and well being in the space, issues around cleanliness,
Speaker 1: issues around safety, how to interact with the police, how
Speaker 1: to interact with the government, do we put forward demands?
Speaker 1: What should the name of it be? Is occupied Oakland
Speaker 1: the problematic name? Should we change it to occupied to
Speaker 1: colonize Oakland? These were all sorts of issues that were
Speaker 1: brought forward to the General Assembly, along with like how
Speaker 1: do we meet the material needs of the space, and
Speaker 1: how do we handle the supplies that are being brought
Speaker 1: in and make sure that they're equally equitably distributed. Who
Speaker 1: can do what for whom within the space. How do
Speaker 1: people's skills get the most use out of them. It
Speaker 1: was a very much a lively atmosphere. It felt like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I I know the word democracy is contentious.
Speaker 1: It felt like a directly democratic process um. But there
Speaker 1: were also you know, it's important to recognize that there
Speaker 1: were some people who were more skilled and more familiar
Speaker 1: with how consensus works, who are more familiar with the
Speaker 1: process that was behind the running of the General Assembly,
Speaker 1: which which has its roots and anarchist practice and anarchist
Speaker 1: forms of decision making, and so those folks definitely had
Speaker 1: a hand up when it came to making decisions, when
Speaker 1: it came to presenting proposals, when it came to even
Speaker 1: administering and running the General Assembly itself, those tasks often
Speaker 1: fell into the lapse of anarchists, who I think did
Speaker 1: a good job of making sure that these general assemblies
Speaker 1: ran smoothly and that they were inclusive and open to
Speaker 1: all who wanted to participate, and people could bring their
Speaker 1: ideas and sometimes they got approved, sometimes they got rejected.
Speaker 1: Even if they got rejected, some some folks decided they
Speaker 1: would implement them anyways, and and that also worked out
Speaker 1: as well as sometimes creating conflicts. The city grew increasingly
Speaker 1: frustrated with the encampment as they were, they found themselves
Speaker 1: unable to make any progress in trying to recuperate, in
Speaker 1: trying to gain favor sort of make the encampment their
Speaker 1: own and extension of the electoral body right of the
Speaker 1: electoral body politic. Ultimately, that's what moved Kwon, the supposedly
Speaker 1: progressive mayor more to the side of the police way
Speaker 1: of seeing things as force was the only option to
Speaker 1: deal with these people who are you know, being unrealistic,
Speaker 1: were being naive, who are being entrenched in and transigent,
Speaker 1: and you know, at the same time, the police, along
Speaker 1: with the city eventually started building up this narrative of
Speaker 1: the camp as a violent and unsafe space where people
Speaker 1: were being harmed in a variety of ways, and it
Speaker 1: was necessary for for public safety's sake to move against
Speaker 1: the encampment. I was there the night the encampment was evicted.
Speaker 1: I think it was October or early morning October twenty five,
Speaker 1: around three am in the morning, three thirty four am,
Speaker 1: and I was actually arrested. I was one of I
Speaker 1: believe eighty eight plus people were arrested. UM. During the
Speaker 1: process of the camps eviction UM, the police came in force.
Speaker 1: They massed up outside of Oracle Arena and the A Stadium.
Speaker 1: It was a massive operation that came in from all sides.
Speaker 1: People upon hearing word that the camp was going to
Speaker 1: be evicted, UM set up barricades. They laced the entire
Speaker 1: area with string, trying to impede the possibility of the
Speaker 1: police getting injured. Quickly, there were battles with the police
Speaker 1: as they tried to make their way into the encampment,
Speaker 1: and eventually UM they came in from all sides and
Speaker 1: until they took over the encampment and encircled the people
Speaker 1: who remained in the camp. I was in jail when
Speaker 1: Scott Olsen was shot. But I do recall the prison
Speaker 1: guards or the Almeda County sheriffs who were making these
Speaker 1: comments as we were being released finally after about twenty
Speaker 1: four plus hours of being held, saying things like, oh,
Speaker 1: go have fun rioting and that sort of thing. And
Speaker 1: and we get out there and then hear about all
Speaker 1: the events that had happened over the course of the
Speaker 1: day that we had been locked up, of these people,
Speaker 1: of folks in the thousands, just like you said, coming
Speaker 1: out to try and retake the space of running battles
Speaker 1: in the streets. I have so many friends and comrades
Speaker 1: who were telling stories about getting tear gas, of getting
Speaker 1: shot at with pepper balls, of Scott Wilson's devastating injury,
Speaker 1: of getting shot in the head. It was violence that
Speaker 1: occurred outside the normal narrative of violence deployed by the
Speaker 1: police in Oakland, right, and so it made it exceptional,
Speaker 1: even though much more brutal violence occurs daily by the
Speaker 1: police in Oakland against primary the black black population in
Speaker 1: Oakland and of people of color um. But we see
Speaker 1: a huge upswelling of outrage at the rate of the
Speaker 1: camp Um outrage at the injury against Scott Wilson, and
Speaker 1: this ultimately the attempt to use force to quash a
Speaker 1: movement tremendously backfired against both the police and the city
Speaker 1: government in terms in terms of it building up even
Speaker 1: more support for Occupy Oakland and its efforts. I recall
Speaker 1: going to the General Assembly when the general strike was
Speaker 1: decided to be moved forward, when the proposal was made
Speaker 1: to have a general strike in a week, which was
Speaker 1: just seemed like a completely impossible notion and completely impractical,
Speaker 1: but also within the realm of the possible at the
Speaker 1: same time, because what had been going on, especially the
Speaker 1: response to people in terms of fighting against the police,
Speaker 1: in terms of taking back Nancamin, of basically winning against
Speaker 1: the government, winning against the police forces, reclaiming the space,
Speaker 1: um taking injuries, supporting one another through the process, it
Speaker 1: seems possible that we could pull up a general strike
Speaker 1: within a week. When it came around, it was clear
Speaker 1: that the word had been spread, that that energy that
Speaker 1: brought on that impulse to move forward with the general
Speaker 1: strike was still there a week later, and I would
Speaker 1: say that that day itself was a tremendous success. We
Speaker 1: had a hundred thousand people marching on the Port of Oakland,
Speaker 1: shutting it down. We had a day's worth of activities,
Speaker 1: everything that encapsulated Occupy Oakland. I feel like I found
Speaker 1: a home UM in particular on that day on November two. Again,
Speaker 1: we've been listening to Scott Campbell. Next we'll hear from Tovah,
Speaker 1: who was involved in the Labor Solidarity Committee of Occupy Oakland,
Speaker 1: which worked to bring in labor unions into the organizing
Speaker 1: of the general strike. There were just masses of people
Speaker 1: down there at Oscar Grant Plaza. Some of them were
Speaker 1: working on maintaining or re re establishing the different services
Speaker 1: that they had set up. I had been involved in
Speaker 1: labor struggles the past, back in Detroit when I was
Speaker 1: in the U a w. So UM volunteered to work
Speaker 1: on the Labor Solidary Committee to do the outreach to
Speaker 1: get support and participation of various unions, teamsters where it
Speaker 1: played a very big role in in support UM for
Speaker 1: that general strike as well. And that I think it's
Speaker 1: the o e A, the Oakland Education Association as a
Speaker 1: teachers union, and they were very much involved, and so
Speaker 1: was the s c IU, particularly the SCIU, the City
Speaker 1: Workers so the city workers were down there every day
Speaker 1: and saw what was going on. UM, and we're you know,
Speaker 1: very much involved and affected by it. You know, the
Speaker 1: teachers Union had, like you said, been involved with in
Speaker 1: support work before all the attacks by the police happened. UH,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of involvement beforehand as well. UM
Speaker 1: one or two Teamsters locals that were you know, supporting officially.
Speaker 1: They you know, it wasn't just their rank and file members,
Speaker 1: which had been great also, but you know, the we
Speaker 1: had support from one or two Teamsters locals, and the
Speaker 1: i LW is primarily Local ten. The longshoreman whole proposal
Speaker 1: was to march down to the port UH and shut
Speaker 1: down the Port of Oakland. We had people involved from
Speaker 1: my LW. You although, I'm pretty sure that the i
Speaker 1: LW Local ten officially was not involved in calling for
Speaker 1: that strike, but there were members who were involved in
Speaker 1: the i LW organization who were definitely involved in helping
Speaker 1: to plan it and organize it as well. The Teamsters
Speaker 1: added some logistical support in terms of trucking and supplies
Speaker 1: and things like that. I think that the o e A.
Speaker 1: The teachers also, in addition to participation, donated applies and
Speaker 1: things like that, So there was a lot of donations
Speaker 1: from the locals as well. We've been listening to TOVA
Speaker 1: from the Occupy Oakland Labor Solidarity Committee. We're now going
Speaker 1: to take a short break and be right back. As
Speaker 1: the Oakland Commune and the Occupy movement faded into history,
Speaker 1: it helped inspire and inform a new generation of activists.
Speaker 1: As under Obama, we saw continued explosions on Ferguson, Baltimore, Minneapolis,
Speaker 1: and later at Standing Rock. By the time that Trump
Speaker 1: took office, autonomous resistance movements were bubbling beneath every surface,
Speaker 1: as airports were shut down against the Muslim band, riots
Speaker 1: broke out against the ault right, and thousands of teachers
Speaker 1: started striking across Appalachia. Donny Red, Ben Dennis and omage
Speaker 1: of the so called Redneck War of when striking coal
Speaker 1: miners engage and grow a warfare with government troops and
Speaker 1: the air Force dropped actual bombs on strikers. With the
Speaker 1: current uptick and strikes under Biden continuing into and the
Speaker 1: economic conditions of porn working people continuing to worsen, we
Speaker 1: asked labor reporter and author a fight like hell Kim Kelly,
Speaker 1: just what are the possibilities of mass strike action in
Speaker 1: the coming year. You know, I think we're in this
Speaker 1: really interesting moment where labor and workers and unions in
Speaker 1: general are getting a lot more attention than we're used to,
Speaker 1: and a lot of that attention is positive, and we
Speaker 1: have a lot of these big wins that we get
Speaker 1: to celebrate. We get to celebrate, you know, the workers
Speaker 1: at Staten Island Amazon go on toe to toe of
Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos and the union election winning. We get to
Speaker 1: celebrate this ongoing wave of unionization efforts at Starbucks across
Speaker 1: the country, hundreds of Starbucks and unionized. We get to
Speaker 1: celebrate a lot of big wins. And there are also
Speaker 1: a lot of struggles that have been kind of set
Speaker 1: to this side, or not gotten as much attention as
Speaker 1: they deserve, or kind of written off. I think that's
Speaker 1: always the dichotomy of the labor movement in general, right
Speaker 1: because it's so big, almost everyone is a part of it,
Speaker 1: whether or not they like to think of themselves that way.
Speaker 1: You know, I've been covering this coal minor strike in
Speaker 1: Alabama since April one. They're still out there. They have
Speaker 1: not gotten very much attention. They're kind of stuck in
Speaker 1: a stalemate at the bargaining table because the bosses want
Speaker 1: to starve them out. And this is Alabama, where workers
Speaker 1: in or outside the prison walls do not have very
Speaker 1: many rights, do not have any politicians on their side.
Speaker 1: They're struggling and they're still out there. And that's kind
Speaker 1: of the flip side of these big, energetic, inspiring moments
Speaker 1: in labor right where we have these winds, and we
Speaker 1: also have folks that are being left a slog or
Speaker 1: being ignored entirely, like the folks that we're going to
Speaker 1: see very soon in Pennsylvania who are going be launching
Speaker 1: a strike and sound the Department of Corrections. I hope
Speaker 1: that gets a lot of attention. I mean, we saw
Speaker 1: a similar effort by a carcerated workers in Alabama a
Speaker 1: couple of months ago, and that got a lot of attention.
Speaker 1: And I'm really hoping that this kind of renewed interest
Speaker 1: in labor and workers rights and then discussing even topics
Speaker 1: like prison slavery, in topics like forced labor, incarcerated work,
Speaker 1: and different types of work. I really hope that benefits
Speaker 1: these workers as they embark on their action but we'll see,
Speaker 1: you know, like I am very interested to see perhaps
Speaker 1: the limits of this public support for labor actions. Is
Speaker 1: it easier to support a barista than it is to
Speaker 1: support a coal miner and acarcerated worker. There's all these
Speaker 1: different pieces that go into this moment. And I love
Speaker 1: being possy. I love seeing workers win and workers organized
Speaker 1: and strike and protest, and I also like keeping an
Speaker 1: eye out for the folks who aren't getting as much attention,
Speaker 1: are getting much support and thinking about why that is.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of a long, rambly answer to say,
Speaker 1: I am cautiously optimistic, and I really hope that all
Speaker 1: of the people who have thankfully and you know, I'm
Speaker 1: glad they're here, who have showed up in the past year,
Speaker 1: in the media, the political class, whoever, regular regular people
Speaker 1: who have been paying attention to these these worker actions.
Speaker 1: I hope they keep that energy for this year, because
Speaker 1: we're going to need it, you know. Started we we've
Speaker 1: had a pretty good We're in a decent spot, and
Speaker 1: I really don't want to see a squander that. See.
Speaker 1: I think this moment with the railroad workers, I think
Speaker 1: that is something that's going to continue to resonate and
Speaker 1: reverberate out, And I think that's going to have an
Speaker 1: impact the next time the Democratic Party says, hey, where
Speaker 1: the Workers Party like, you need to come vote for
Speaker 1: us and keep us in power because well, we're the
Speaker 1: only ones who will protect you. Well will you did you?
Speaker 1: Were you there for us when we needed you or
Speaker 1: when we needed your help? No? You know, it just
Speaker 1: makes one wonder how much of the pro union uh
Speaker 1: sloganeering that that this administration loves to do, how much
Speaker 1: of it is pure public relations, how much of it
Speaker 1: is actually attached to whatever personal beliefs that Biden has,
Speaker 1: or if they just think it's politically expedient to, you know,
Speaker 1: act as though we're the we're pro union, we're pro worker.
Speaker 1: We're not going to pass any laws, we're not going
Speaker 1: to investigate any worker death at Amazon facilities are helped elsewhere,
Speaker 1: we're not going to use our power to help you.
Speaker 1: But we're not Republicans, So you know, it's um. I
Speaker 1: think it's going to be interesting to see how much
Speaker 1: the railroad strike impacts people, because I think that the
Speaker 1: political calculus that the Biden administration did in choosing to
Speaker 1: crush the strike inside with the railroad bosses. I guess
Speaker 1: they figured, oh, well, it's not that big of a
Speaker 1: you know, maybe not that many people are paying attention.
Speaker 1: We've got to make sure people get their Christmas presents
Speaker 1: on time. But a lot of folks were watching that.
Speaker 1: A lot of regular workers were watching that and thinking, oh, so,
Speaker 1: if we were in that position at my job, the
Speaker 1: government would help us either. I think, you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of the chatter I saw from railroad workers, from
Speaker 1: other workers, just from people in general, it is like, oh, so, okay,
Speaker 1: this was the big moment where Biden could have proved
Speaker 1: he cared about us, and instead he threw us under
Speaker 1: the bus, straight onto the railroad tracks. And I don't
Speaker 1: think that's a surprise to people that are sort of
Speaker 1: paying more close attention to the way the state operates.
Speaker 1: But I think it was maybe a revelatory moment for
Speaker 1: folks who just sort of assumed, okay, like there's at
Speaker 1: least a little bit of benevolence at least, you know,
Speaker 1: the Democrats are in power. This guy says, it alls
Speaker 1: unions that should help us out a little bit. But
Speaker 1: seeing what happened there, I think it's going to be
Speaker 1: a profoundly disillusioning moment for a lot of people that
Speaker 1: maybe had a little bit more faith in the state
Speaker 1: or at least assumed it was sort of looking out
Speaker 1: for us. And I think that's gonna have an impact
Speaker 1: when you know, the Democratic Party comes back knocking on
Speaker 1: our doors and mostly asking for a vote in our support,
Speaker 1: because I mean, you, we had a classic which side
Speaker 1: are you on moment and we saw which way they
Speaker 1: chose to go. We're gonna see more prolonged strikes, We're
Speaker 1: going to see more unfair labor practices, are going to
Speaker 1: see more organizing. I think that it is impossible to
Speaker 1: put this lightning back into a bottle. Right Like, activity
Speaker 1: and interest in unions and organizing is, if not skyrocketing,
Speaker 1: it's had a really nice little bump over the past
Speaker 1: few years, a noticeable improvement and a noticeable amount of
Speaker 1: new worker workplaces being organized and going on strike and
Speaker 1: fighting for their rights. Like, I don't think that's going away.
Speaker 1: And two of the aspects of this, this entire scenario
Speaker 1: that really interests me. First, the fact that we're seeing
Speaker 1: so many workers who some my categories as quote unquote
Speaker 1: white collar whatever, folks who work in nonprofits or at
Speaker 1: book publishers, or journalism, other types of media, kind of
Speaker 1: all of these other types of jobs that don't fit
Speaker 1: into that traditional manufacturing or extractive focused of many more
Speaker 1: manual labor oriented jobs that I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people associate with the labor movement. They've been going on
Speaker 1: strike and they've been making big waves, whether it's the
Speaker 1: forty eight thousand grad student workers at the University of
Speaker 1: California or hardpwerk HarperCollins Publishing workers currently still on strike
Speaker 1: in New York City. I think there's been kind of
Speaker 1: the shift and understanding of oh, Okay, you don't need
Speaker 1: to be a certain type of worker or certain type
Speaker 1: of person, or come from a specific background in order
Speaker 1: to organize to join a union. Unions aren't just for
Speaker 1: the classic white guy in a hard hat trope like
Speaker 1: my dad, right Like, they're accessible to so many more
Speaker 1: of us than perhaps we thought, and I think that's
Speaker 1: going to be big because work has shifted. Work looks
Speaker 1: different than it did thirty years ago. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of different ways to be exploited, and we know the
Speaker 1: employers have definitely looked into each and everyone and taken notes.
Speaker 1: So we have that happening. I think that's gonna continue
Speaker 1: propelling the energy behind this movement. And secondly, I'm really
Speaker 1: intrigued by the rise, and that's as it's a smaller phenomenon,
Speaker 1: but it is very much happening, and it is kind
Speaker 1: of increasing slowly the exist this existence of independent unions,
Speaker 1: because we saw, of course the Amazon Labor Union. They're
Speaker 1: the big ones, They've gotten tons of attention, deservedly so,
Speaker 1: but there are also efforts Trader Joe's Trade Joe's United
Speaker 1: as an independent union. Chipotle workers formed an independent union.
Speaker 1: There was an effort here in Philadelphia to form a
Speaker 1: Home Depot workers independent union, and that one wasn't successful,
Speaker 1: but I'm certain that that organizer has not given up,
Speaker 1: but they're still gonna keep working on that. Like and
Speaker 1: I think seeing these independent unions which are not affiliated
Speaker 1: with other internationals, are not part of the afl CE.
Speaker 1: Oh there literally just d I y you know. Thence
Speaker 1: the fact that we're seeing this happen. I think it
Speaker 1: just shows the cracks in the current labor movement as
Speaker 1: it stands, and especially in the way that power is concentrated,
Speaker 1: in the way that resources are organized, in the way
Speaker 1: that the movements. Priorities in terms of public statements and
Speaker 1: political power are kind of dictated by folks who tend
Speaker 1: to be more conservative. And I mean that in like
Speaker 1: a Democrat way and not like you know, Republican chaos,
Speaker 1: but just more conservative compared to a lot of the
Speaker 1: rank and file. Like we see with the railroad workers
Speaker 1: that rejected rejected that deal that so many of their
Speaker 1: leaders agreed on. You know, I think there's more radicalism
Speaker 1: brewing in the rank and file and more militancy that
Speaker 1: and it's it's manifesting in different ways. It's manifesting and
Speaker 1: wildcatch strikes or an independent unions, or in organizing outside
Speaker 1: of the traditional organized labor structure and gender like what
Speaker 1: sex workers and incarcerated workers are doing and have been doing.
Speaker 1: I think ultimately the bottom line is that a lot
Speaker 1: of workers, a lot of people have realized that they
Speaker 1: have options, and they're exercising their rights to organize and
Speaker 1: to work collectively and to stand with their fellow workers
Speaker 1: against the bosses and against capital in ways that you know,
Speaker 1: perhaps I wouldn't have felt disavailable or seemed as possible
Speaker 1: a few years ago, but now there's so many examples
Speaker 1: of other workers doing it. Of course, have been there
Speaker 1: throughout history too, like I read about my book, but
Speaker 1: I think we're at this moment where people realize, Okay,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of different ways to do this.
Speaker 1: I have people with me, we have problems we need
Speaker 1: to address. Let's see what works. You know, it's not
Speaker 1: just picking up the phone and calling a union organizer,
Speaker 1: though that works for some folks. Too, is recognizing the
Speaker 1: problems we face in our workplace, in our experience, and
Speaker 1: deciding together what we want to do, how we want
Speaker 1: to go forward, and how we're going to win. Once again,
Speaker 1: that was Kim Kelly, author of phil Hell. Over the
Speaker 1: past two episodes, we've taken a deep dive into the
Speaker 1: history of general strikes in the United States, looking at
Speaker 1: everything from the mass strike of Enslave plantation workers during
Speaker 1: the Civil War all the way up to current examples
Speaker 1: during Occupy Oakland. I think one of the things history
Speaker 1: has to offer us as a guide for the present
Speaker 1: is that these upheavals are made possible not only by
Speaker 1: people responding to material conditions, but also learning from struggle.
Speaker 1: In the instance of the Great Upheaval, that general strike
Speaker 1: came after a series of other smaller strikes. This fall,
Speaker 1: thousands of prisoners across Alabama organized a general strike of
Speaker 1: incarcerated workers, downing their tools and refusing to work their jobs,
Speaker 1: bringing the prisons to a grinding halt. This historic strike
Speaker 1: comes on the heels of many other prisoner led strike
Speaker 1: actions in two thousand ten, two thousand sixteen. In two
Speaker 1: thousand eighteen, non to mention the fact that many Alabama
Speaker 1: prisoners saw themselves as acting in the spirit of the
Speaker 1: Great Plantation Strike during the Civil War, as epitomized by
Speaker 1: the strike slogan let the crops rot in the field
Speaker 1: in my final thoughts, instead of putting our hopes in
Speaker 1: a call for a general strike going viral, As the
Speaker 1: saying goes, we have to walk before we can run.
Speaker 1: So strengthening our ability to engage in collective direct action
Speaker 1: and active refusal, as well as building our capacity for
Speaker 1: community self defense and mobilizing against state violence and repression
Speaker 1: and whatever form will ultimately allow us to expand and
Speaker 1: grow our ability to do these things in the future.
Speaker 1: A lot of times we're told that like we're powerless
Speaker 1: and were these passive beings and creatures and we have
Speaker 1: to wait for somebody to organize us. But every single
Speaker 1: day we wake up in the morning and we make
Speaker 1: capitalism happen, like we do it, like all of us,
Speaker 1: every single one of us does it. Like this is
Speaker 1: not like oh, like this is just something that's happening
Speaker 1: to us, we're doing to ourselves. We're doing it to
Speaker 1: each other. Like these little things that we can do,
Speaker 1: like little acts of resistance. And I'm all about petty
Speaker 1: resistance because I do realize that a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't have time for the large resistances. So this is
Speaker 1: for anybody who's like, yeah, I hate capitalism, but I
Speaker 1: just don't have the breath on the space and the
Speaker 1: time to necessarily like go out and do things. If
Speaker 1: you can't, please do it. You can't like walk the
Speaker 1: funk out do But if you can't, like there's still
Speaker 1: stuff you can do. That's it for me. By you know,
Speaker 1: what strikes me often about general strikes are two things.
Speaker 1: First is that general strikes actually function very differently than
Speaker 1: they do in leftist discourse. Like in leftist discourse it's
Speaker 1: workers do general strikes. But in reality, if we really
Speaker 1: look at general strikes, there are these moments of convergence, right,
Speaker 1: There's these these sort of points in which distinctions break down, right,
Speaker 1: the distinction between like organizers and everyone else, or the
Speaker 1: distinction between workers and non workers completely break down. Right,
Speaker 1: It's not just railroad workers don't strike in eighteen seventy seven,
Speaker 1: is also their families, their neighbors, their whole communities on strike.
Speaker 1: And this the second thing that that raises often for me,
Speaker 1: is again this kind of long term cultural implications of
Speaker 1: that sort of form of action. So growing up in
Speaker 1: a place where you know, strike culture is a thing,
Speaker 1: um still where there's still actual union density and people
Speaker 1: do walk off the job, um, you grow up with
Speaker 1: that as an idea, right that you don't just walk
Speaker 1: off the job. But like the restaurant around the corner
Speaker 1: also gives out free food, and people bring coffee down
Speaker 1: to the picket line, and you know, workers from other
Speaker 1: unions show up the block entrances because the judge said
Speaker 1: you can, you know so and so on, and it
Speaker 1: becomes this huge community initiative of autonomy and self defense.
Speaker 1: And what that creates is a sense in which class
Speaker 1: struggle is perpetual. Like you understand always when you grow
Speaker 1: up in a place like that, but when you go
Speaker 1: to work you're making somebody else money because you've been
Speaker 1: told that your whole life right and that if you
Speaker 1: get angry about that, that what you're supposed to do
Speaker 1: is organize and go on strike. And that's a very
Speaker 1: normal sort of narrative that was because we all up
Speaker 1: in families where we were taught to do that. That
Speaker 1: if the wealthy we're taking advantage of you, you just leave. Right.
Speaker 1: That is not a normal thing outside of the rest
Speaker 1: of America, right, Like people don't get brought up with that.
Speaker 1: But I think as we're starting to see this kind
Speaker 1: of rise of the idea of the general strike, and
Speaker 1: we're starting to understand that is something that's not just
Speaker 1: connected to employment, but we can start to think of
Speaker 1: general strikes as social strikes and not just economic strikes.
Speaker 1: We can start to understand like, even if those may
Speaker 1: immediately not succeed, the long term impacts of those over
Speaker 1: time really create the conditions for them to succeed later.
Speaker 1: And if it hadn't been for that flame staying alive,
Speaker 1: I think in parts of America, this wave of worker
Speaker 1: action wouldn't be happening. There wouldn't be a foundation for it,
Speaker 1: there wouldn't be a way to understand it, right, um,
Speaker 1: And that's what's so critical about this moment is I
Speaker 1: think in some ways we're almost reviving a thing that
Speaker 1: my grandparents lived in the midst of just as a
Speaker 1: very normal part of their lives. I think that's like
Speaker 1: a really important piece about this survival. And I think
Speaker 1: think that something that feels really important about general strikes
Speaker 1: is the idea of like solidarity and that our liberation
Speaker 1: is collective, you know, that it involves each other. And
Speaker 1: I think that, Um, I feel like what happened between
Speaker 1: like what you're saying to about you, like your grandparents
Speaker 1: generation and now is like near liberalism in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways, and just like this really strong promotion of
Speaker 1: the idea of like individualism and that if you want
Speaker 1: to make your life better you have to do it yourself,
Speaker 1: and like it's down to you as an individual. That
Speaker 1: I think it was pretty effective at decimating a lot
Speaker 1: of ideas of like solidarity or the idea that I like,
Speaker 1: freedom is with each other. Um. And I think that
Speaker 1: that is starting to fall apart, Like people are realizing
Speaker 1: however much they hustle or like have side hustles or whatever,
Speaker 1: they're still fucked and just like I think that we're
Speaker 1: seeing like a resurgence of this idea of like solidarity
Speaker 1: and that we have to do together, that is going
Speaker 1: to do it for us this week. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Check us out on macodon at
Speaker 1: I g D Underscore News and be sure or to
Speaker 1: tune in as the workers that it could Happen here
Speaker 1: into their two day strike and return to the job.
Speaker 1: But stay tuned. We'll be back next week for even
Speaker 1: more episodes. Until then, It could Happen here as a
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media or more podcasts from cool
Speaker 1: Zone Media. Visit our website cool zone media dot com,
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can
Speaker 1: find sources for It could Happen Here, updated monthly at
Speaker 1: cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening