Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukeleman.
Speaker 2: This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called
Speaker 2: The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper,
Speaker 2: and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast,
Speaker 2: presented by f h F Gear, American made purpose built
Speaker 2: hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged
Speaker 2: as the place as we explore. All Right, I have
Speaker 2: I have three major things I'd like to do before
Speaker 2: we talk about Ostiola. It was the final Osceola Render,
Speaker 2: which I really feel like we've done it. We've done
Speaker 2: four Ostiola podcasts and they've all been to me really
Speaker 2: interesting and I think to other people too. And as
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, we may just turn the whole
Speaker 2: bear Grease into Ostiola. I like it just just well,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that that's.
Speaker 1: Ossiola's life and legacy.
Speaker 3: You need to get like silver plating on everything because
Speaker 3: that he had over every silver What are those called gorgets?
Speaker 2: Gorgets? Yeah, I didn't really even know what they were.
Speaker 2: So we're gonna end up talking about Ostiola. But I've
Speaker 2: got three like very important things to talk about I have. First,
Speaker 2: we'll start with a story. Then there's a sales question
Speaker 2: that I'd like to present to the team. Sure, and uh,
Speaker 2: but but first let me say or I want to
Speaker 2: tell you a story. And I'm just dying to tell it.
Speaker 2: The Arkansas Bear season last till November the thirtieth. On
Speaker 2: November the twenty ninth, I had a a just like
Speaker 2: a hankering intuition, just like an unquenchable desire to go
Speaker 2: to a certain place. Just it just I just couldn't
Speaker 2: make it go away, like for a week, and I
Speaker 2: just thought about it being the last two days of
Speaker 2: bear season.
Speaker 4: It was a place that I bear hunt. But that
Speaker 4: have you had that happen to me?
Speaker 5: Before it happened, I tell you, And watching football on
Speaker 5: a Saturday, interested in the games, and I just kept thinking,
Speaker 5: I know those deer are in one particular place where
Speaker 5: I hunt. And finally I just got up and went
Speaker 5: down there, climbed in the tree, killed a deer, put
Speaker 5: it in the truck, came home.
Speaker 6: It was a long way the football game, yeah, back
Speaker 6: in thirty minutes.
Speaker 2: I really, I think the older you get, the more
Speaker 2: you recognize what is maybe just like a fleeting idea
Speaker 2: versus something you really need to pay attention to. And man,
Speaker 2: so I went down here, but specifically it wasn't as
Speaker 2: much well it was as much the location as it
Speaker 2: was the way I was going to get in there,
Speaker 2: which will play into this story. Cash, have I introduced
Speaker 2: my guests? You haven't yeh, Misty Newcombe, so great to
Speaker 2: have you.
Speaker 7: Good to be here.
Speaker 2: Yes, my beloved neighbor and friend and the best pastured
Speaker 2: poultry grower.
Speaker 6: That thanksgiving me to phenomenal Yes.
Speaker 7: Very good.
Speaker 1: So Spences here, who has been a featured guest on
Speaker 1: the Burgers podcast before on a soil podcast.
Speaker 6: I believe that all of us have minus one.
Speaker 2: Me and Spencer, both environmental, soil and science majors from
Speaker 2: the first of Arkansas. Yeah, I call it an inch
Speaker 2: deep and a mile wide.
Speaker 6: But straight.
Speaker 7: Okay, One time Spence and Clay and our other neighbor
Speaker 7: were digging a hole in our ground too. We were
Speaker 7: cooking a hog under the ground and they were they
Speaker 7: were digging the hole in the ground. This is a
Speaker 7: funny three but y'all being in the same major and.
Speaker 2: Not to lose the audience, but we're actually in the
Speaker 2: middle of the bear story.
Speaker 7: Go ahead, okay, well, this is a good story. Just
Speaker 7: while we're internucing with people. You're we're roasting a pig
Speaker 7: in the ground, and you two and our other neighbors
Speaker 7: were all digging this hole, and Spin said something did
Speaker 7: the effect of man, those crop, soil, environmental water science degrees,
Speaker 7: It's sure are coming in handy right now, because y'all
Speaker 7: were you digging in the soil. And our neighbor said,
Speaker 7: who was a classical letters major whatever that means classical studies,
Speaker 7: And he's like, well, turns out classical studies is also
Speaker 7: coming in.
Speaker 4: It's funny.
Speaker 2: It was funny, fun good throwback introductions in the middle
Speaker 2: of the Bear story. Josh Bridge Spilmmaker, to see you, Bear,
Speaker 2: John Nuclear, Great to see.
Speaker 1: You, Gary Believer, Nukelem the Legend, Great to see you.
Speaker 7: November twenty ninth, Clay got a hankering to go, ankoring.
Speaker 2: To go, but it was it was a way to
Speaker 2: get into the stot. Usually I stay up high on
Speaker 2: the ridges to get in there. I wanted to stay
Speaker 2: low in the in the in the hollers, you know,
Speaker 2: I wanted to stay. I just it didn't make sense,
Speaker 2: but that's what I wanted to do. And when you
Speaker 2: go into places like that, you never know what you're
Speaker 2: gonna get into it could just be a terrible, like
Speaker 2: disastrous hike. I got to where I park at four PM,
Speaker 2: which is late. It gets dark at like five point thirty,
Speaker 2: and I just made up my mind that I was
Speaker 2: just gonna it didn't matter if it took me, you know,
Speaker 2: till I had to walk in the dark to get
Speaker 2: back where I wanted a camp. I brought my camp
Speaker 2: and stuff, and basically it was gonna hunt the final.
Speaker 4: Day of the Arkansas bear season.
Speaker 2: And I'm I'm side hilling low in this drawl, and
Speaker 2: like twenty minutes before dark, I'm on a super steep
Speaker 2: part of the hill and I see a huge pile
Speaker 2: of freshly excavated dirt, like.
Speaker 1: So big that I immediately knew.
Speaker 4: CO had been in there.
Speaker 1: They putting in a water line to a subdivision.
Speaker 4: No they I knew. I knew it was a bear.
Speaker 6: And I saw like how big was this pilot?
Speaker 1: It was like.
Speaker 2: A truck hood and a half and it was on
Speaker 2: a steep hillside.
Speaker 4: And it's bear season.
Speaker 2: It's illegal to kill a denned bear, so I wasn't
Speaker 2: like going to walk up and.
Speaker 4: Shoot a bear if it was in there.
Speaker 2: But I really wanted to see if one was in there,
Speaker 2: and uh and I So anyway, I walked down there,
Speaker 2: and I mean it was a nerve wracking moment because
Speaker 2: it just kind of crept up there and had my
Speaker 2: coon light with me, and I didn't initially pull it out,
Speaker 2: but just peeked into that bear den, half expecting a
Speaker 2: bear to shoot out of there or growl or something.
Speaker 2: I've been on a lot of bear den studies and
Speaker 2: I knew that you could actually walk up to a
Speaker 2: bear den and a bear sometimes.
Speaker 4: Won't even do anything. Sometimes they'll just stay in there
Speaker 4: and kind.
Speaker 2: Of eyeball you. And anyway, I get up there, and
Speaker 2: sure enough it's a bear den. It's a hole about
Speaker 2: about as big as a fifty five gallon drum, kind
Speaker 2: of an oval egg shaped right in.
Speaker 6: This little widen out inside.
Speaker 2: Inside it widened out both directions about probably I think
Speaker 2: a six foot man could have laid down sideways in
Speaker 2: the hole.
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, you know, maybe how far end did
Speaker 6: it go?
Speaker 2: Probably like further than I could reach with my arm,
Speaker 2: but probably like three and a half.
Speaker 4: Feet three feet.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was a big tressive yeah, and there's
Speaker 2: no bear there. Well, I've got my camping stuff, you know.
Speaker 6: So I go up on the heap in there.
Speaker 2: Yet I go up on the hill and walk like
Speaker 2: a quarter mile away and spend the night. And again
Speaker 2: it's I feel like, I'm not going to shoot a
Speaker 2: bear in the den. This bear's not den, he's still
Speaker 2: roaming around. He's just dug his den. But I knew
Speaker 2: that that bear was close. I really felt like that
Speaker 2: bear was within three hundred yards of that den. I
Speaker 2: came in there in the morning at daylight. The wind
Speaker 2: was blowing up the valley or up the hill all day.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 2: I didn't really understand the thermals on it. I think
Speaker 2: it was just a prevailing wind. But it blew in
Speaker 2: my face all day, blowing my scent straight up the mountain.
Speaker 2: And I crept within forty five yards of that den
Speaker 2: and just sat there, set there all day, set there
Speaker 2: from basically seven am until.
Speaker 1: Four oh six. I decided it gets dark.
Speaker 2: I five thirty decided to walk out of there, went
Speaker 2: over there and hung a camera, a multi truck camera
Speaker 2: just like that right there, and hung it up in
Speaker 2: a tree.
Speaker 1: Bear so that I knew. I almost brought a bear box.
Speaker 2: Most of my cameras this year have been slapped by bears,
Speaker 2: even in bear boxes, and they slide around. And so
Speaker 2: I've spent a ton of time going into real backwoods
Speaker 2: places putting up cameras, and within within both of them
Speaker 2: within twenty four hours, a bear moved the camera, pointing
Speaker 2: in an irrelevant direction. So here I am, and I'm
Speaker 2: trying to figure out how I'm gonna use this unbear
Speaker 2: boxed camera and not the bear not tear it up.
Speaker 2: And I shimmy up a little tree about four inches
Speaker 2: in diameter and hang this cameras on a steep slope,
Speaker 2: so the camera is like eight or nine feet off
Speaker 2: the ground, but pointing right into the den. And four
Speaker 2: oh six I head out of there and hunt my
Speaker 2: way back to the truck. Before I get back to
Speaker 2: the truck, that camera has a picture of a bear
Speaker 2: coming in there.
Speaker 4: And he was.
Speaker 2: It was a color phase bear, it was. And when
Speaker 2: he came in, he was trailing me like a hound.
Speaker 2: I mean, he was just tracing every step I made.
Speaker 2: I was really surprised he came in after what I smelled.
Speaker 2: You know, Oh, let's tell him what bear I texted
Speaker 2: you that night I had good sale coverage in there,
Speaker 2: and I texted you and I said, bear, I found
Speaker 2: a bear den.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you said, well, I asked if you were going
Speaker 8: to sit there the next day, and you said you
Speaker 8: couldn't tell me because the bear might hear you. Yeah,
Speaker 8: And I was, you know, two hours away, and we
Speaker 8: were so there's phone.
Speaker 7: So not only could hear him that he can intercept
Speaker 7: text messages.
Speaker 6: Location.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I first learned about this, oh no, from the
Speaker 2: co Yukon people in Alaska who there. They have very
Speaker 2: many bear hunting taboos, and one of them is to
Speaker 2: vocalize your plans about bear hunting because the bear will
Speaker 2: hear you. So so if we were going bear hunting
Speaker 2: dad tomorrow, I would go, hey, Dad, I'd say we
Speaker 2: ought to walk around you know, Miller Mountain tomorrow and
Speaker 2: just see what we could find. Or or if we
Speaker 2: knew right where a bear was, we wouldn't directly address
Speaker 2: that we were going bear hunting.
Speaker 4: It would be much more cryptic.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying I believe that, but you still
Speaker 1: that it's worth a shot.
Speaker 3: I'm going to start when when coons are hauling my
Speaker 3: layers out, I'm going to start taking that tactic footholds.
Speaker 6: Yeah, just don't ask me.
Speaker 1: Don't ask, don't tell.
Speaker 6: That's something different.
Speaker 2: But that's our bear hunting philosophy. Now, it's like, if
Speaker 2: you want to go, just come on. Let's we just
Speaker 2: can't discuss it. I mean, I'm doing all this a
Speaker 2: lot of research on bears and I'm serious.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm like kind of paranoid about it.
Speaker 2: So anyway, it was a really uniqu and I've never
Speaker 2: found an active bear den other than going on den
Speaker 2: studies with game and fish where they have collared bears
Speaker 2: and they know where they're at.
Speaker 4: But it was really cool.
Speaker 2: But here's perhaps the most interesting part of the story,
Speaker 2: Miss Nukem, is I had to drive on a small
Speaker 2: road to get back into where I parked and open road,
Speaker 2: and I came out of there in the dark, and
Speaker 2: I drove thirty five miles on a major highway in
Speaker 2: Arkansas and pulled into a Harp's grocery store to get
Speaker 2: some food before I drove on home.
Speaker 4: And I want to show you what was.
Speaker 2: Well when I when I get to when I get
Speaker 2: to the grocery store, I have no less than a
Speaker 2: forty foot fine hanging.
Speaker 1: Off at the back of my marching feet, Dad, did
Speaker 1: we measures it?
Speaker 6: Measured it?
Speaker 4: I want to show it to you.
Speaker 3: Are we talking great? Talking green Brier Wi? Are we
Speaker 3: talking poison ivy?
Speaker 2: Is this?
Speaker 6: Yeah? Have we made sure Gary? This is poison not
Speaker 6: poison ivy? Hold that camera when he comes in, boy,
Speaker 6: musket as could be. Are you kidding me? Great? Good night?
Speaker 4: Son?
Speaker 3: Holy, that's a wild great yeah.
Speaker 6: Hold on, put your headphones on. Guy.
Speaker 2: So when I when I got to Harp's Misty, that vine,
Speaker 2: which you know is as big as my thumb down
Speaker 2: on the end right there. Look that grape vine was
Speaker 2: hanging off of my truck and I was stretched out
Speaker 2: or was it stretched out in a straight line, hanging
Speaker 2: off of the back of my bumper?
Speaker 6: And clay, there's red paint all over there.
Speaker 2: And I was driving fast and I passed multiple people
Speaker 2: on a two lane highway with that right there. So
Speaker 2: I don't really know what to make of it. But well,
Speaker 2: there's the squirrel dogs.
Speaker 4: You might be a redneck. You might be ready.
Speaker 1: If you did you keep it?
Speaker 7: Did you pass people?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I passed people. No one I had got no
Speaker 2: I mean maybe nobody could one.
Speaker 1: Whipping people?
Speaker 3: Yeah, like a jellyfish with the Corolla stuck in it.
Speaker 1: Probably that's the thing.
Speaker 7: I was on a work trip recently in the Pacific
Speaker 7: Northwest and we got a rental car and someone didn't
Speaker 7: latch the trunk very well when we put all of
Speaker 7: our bags in the trunk. As we pulled out, I
Speaker 7: went probably within about ten feet of pulling out of
Speaker 7: the rental car place onto the main Yeah, the airport
Speaker 7: main road. Are the trunk flies open and we couldn't stop.
Speaker 7: So we waited like a quarter of a mile to
Speaker 7: stop because that was the first pull off in that
Speaker 7: quarter of a mile. People were honking. We had very
Speaker 7: enthusiastic waving of the hands. I bet, I bet no
Speaker 7: less than six people made big scene about your doors open.
Speaker 7: As if we wouldn't have known that. I would have
Speaker 7: thought that somewhere.
Speaker 2: I mean it was it was dark, and uh, I
Speaker 2: don't think. I think maybe fast.
Speaker 1: People couldn't catch up with you.
Speaker 7: Doing damage to their cars.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would have honked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you get some like Instagram messages and people.
Speaker 2: Like somebody will send me a video of me driving
Speaker 2: down the road.
Speaker 6: It could be on Channel five news.
Speaker 2: All Right, I gotta get this out here, so that
Speaker 2: was kind of the epilogue of the bear story. The
Speaker 2: good news is, I've got a camera on that bear den.
Speaker 2: I'm really interested to see what happens that. So the
Speaker 2: bear that came in right after I was there, like
Speaker 2: within an hour, and I'm gonna I'm gonna post those
Speaker 2: videos on my Instagram. He he trailed me like a
Speaker 2: hound and then and then spooked. I mean when he
Speaker 2: ran off, he was like he was just he was
Speaker 2: just spooked. The next day, twenty four hours later, a
Speaker 2: different bear came into that bear den.
Speaker 7: Did it go in?
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell, like the the you know in the video, No,
Speaker 2: but the bear would have been longer there. You know,
Speaker 2: the video didn't didn't just capture.
Speaker 4: The whole thing.
Speaker 2: But but that bear smelled me twenty four hours later,
Speaker 2: trailing me like a hound. It was just like super spooky.
Speaker 2: And when it left it like, you know, like a
Speaker 2: scalded dog. Just kind of like that they are. I'm
Speaker 2: telling you that's the reason I don't even text my
Speaker 2: bear hunting plans. I I've got another story like that
Speaker 2: this year. You know, every every time I put up
Speaker 2: a camera, bears knocked it off. I went into this saddle,
Speaker 2: put up, a camera, walked through the saddle. Like eight
Speaker 2: hours later, a bear comes through with his nose on
Speaker 2: the ground trail in my every step, looks at the camera,
Speaker 2: comes over, knocks it off.
Speaker 4: Really yeah, they're they're they know that you're watching them.
Speaker 4: They are on to you.
Speaker 3: Now you post you post this stuff on Instagram though, right,
Speaker 3: like the bear den and all that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but you won't text it or tell anybody.
Speaker 1: Well, it's mainly hunting plans and and I'm not. I'm not,
Speaker 1: I'm no longer hunting.
Speaker 6: There might be a little incregruity there.
Speaker 2: True, Well, I'm no longer hunting the okay, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean the season's over. Okay, So I have before me.
Speaker 2: I've got a banker, I've got a young entrepreneur. I've
Speaker 2: got an old entreprene to her.
Speaker 9: Former failed We were thinking we weren't going to say,
Speaker 9: I've got a successful entrepreneur and another successful entrepreneur.
Speaker 2: Wow, pet owner and a pet owner. I've got I've
Speaker 2: got a question needs some serious input.
Speaker 6: So we have.
Speaker 2: We have three fists right now, and and the best one,
Speaker 2: like by far, is that the whole.
Speaker 6: Family agree that she's by far the best.
Speaker 4: Oh, it's squirrel hunting.
Speaker 8: Yeah, well we don't know yet because those ages went
Speaker 8: with her and was you know, Okay, if you ask
Speaker 8: me the family front.
Speaker 7: Well, I have strong opinions about the qualities of our world.
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 1: At the moment, yeah, like right in the future.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not talking about potential okay, okay, yeah, we're
Speaker 2: talking about like today and anyway, tests beautiful dog, brindle backed, whitefooted,
Speaker 2: flashy feist. She's five years old and Bear is raising
Speaker 2: up right now, a young feist that's like eight and
Speaker 2: a half months old that's doing really good.
Speaker 1: And Tess is like Tesso.
Speaker 2: I would say this amongst the company of people that
Speaker 2: I'm around, who Michael Lanear is my Jedi master squirrel
Speaker 2: mentor right, And I mean Michael l Near just knows
Speaker 2: what he's talking about. Okay, I would say this to Michael.
Speaker 2: There's a fair chance Michael will hear this when I
Speaker 2: take Tess hunting. And I'm not a squirrel squirrelog expert.
Speaker 2: I'm not, but I've hunted with quite a few people
Speaker 2: and I don't. Tess is rarely outdone by another dog,
Speaker 2: Like when you hunt all day, when you're like, well,
Speaker 2: we you know, everybody's kind of keeping track. You're not
Speaker 2: vocalizing it, but you're kind of like in your head
Speaker 2: keeping track of we killed this many squirrels over that dog,
Speaker 2: and this many over that dog. She's a finished good
Speaker 2: squirrel dog. I mean, you could turn her out today
Speaker 2: anywhere in the country where there's gray or fock squirrels,
Speaker 2: and you're gonna kill a bunch of squirrels.
Speaker 1: Pleasure to hunt.
Speaker 6: It's a lot of hype. Is this leading somewhere?
Speaker 2: I think we should sell her, Oh, because she's good,
Speaker 2: because we got this young dog dad that we're gonna
Speaker 2: want to start hunting, and it's kind of counterproductive to hunt.
Speaker 2: It may not seem like it, but when you got
Speaker 2: your good dog and you got a young dog, that
Speaker 2: good dog can sometimes just like smother out the young dog.
Speaker 2: It'd be better probably just just to hunt this young dog.
Speaker 2: And I don't want Tess and the prime of her
Speaker 2: life to stay in that pen. And I think somebody
Speaker 2: that was getting into squirrel hunting or just wanted another
Speaker 2: I would say three years of really good hunting and
Speaker 2: really five view. I think she'll hunt till she's ten.
Speaker 2: No guarantees it's live animal folks. But every day she's
Speaker 2: still worth money. She's worth something right now. And uh, anyway,
Speaker 2: should I sell her dad.
Speaker 4: For two fifty I'd sell her yeah, or fifty fifty dollars.
Speaker 1: We bought her for more than that.
Speaker 6: I'm kidding.
Speaker 5: If she's as good as you're saying, I mean, she's
Speaker 5: worth a lot of money.
Speaker 3: Yeah, where are you thinking price wise? Well, minimum bid?
Speaker 3: Where would the minimum bid start? Oh?
Speaker 1: Wow, this we can't do this yet, can't Okay, maybe later.
Speaker 4: We have even decided we can't do this yet, but
Speaker 4: let me it works.
Speaker 6: She's right outside here, so she could hear.
Speaker 7: She could hear.
Speaker 2: I can hear when you talk about him, though it's
Speaker 2: not like a beang what coon dogs can.
Speaker 8: Because you said you wouldn't say something in front of Jedi.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't say that he wasn't good to his face. Yeah,
Speaker 4: to his face.
Speaker 2: But test might hear us and well, but but see,
Speaker 2: tests might even do better with somebody else.
Speaker 6: Because she's gonna getlised. It's a complicated system.
Speaker 1: Do you think we should sell the dog? Me and
Speaker 1: your joint owners in this dog?
Speaker 8: Essentially undecided because she is a really good dog. But
Speaker 8: O Sage is looking very promising, and it would be
Speaker 8: you know, disappointing just for her to sit in the
Speaker 8: pen during her prime, just because you know we're only hunting.
Speaker 1: O Sage. I'm undecided. I need to think on it.
Speaker 1: Okay a little more, Josh out of here, Feller Seller.
Speaker 6: Yep. So she's a tool. She's a machine.
Speaker 1: She is. She is not much of a pet. She's
Speaker 1: actually a terrible.
Speaker 6: She's so driven.
Speaker 2: She's These other dogs run loose and we treat them
Speaker 2: like pets.
Speaker 4: They come in our house and.
Speaker 6: Hey, listen, we've had dogs. We've had dogs for years.
Speaker 6: We've got two dogs right now that are like part
Speaker 6: of the family. We had a dog for ten years
Speaker 6: before that, a German shepherd that we bought for a pet.
Speaker 6: But he was so driven just to chase and play
Speaker 6: fetch that he wasn't a fun like yeah, gus, Yeah,
Speaker 6: it wasn't a good.
Speaker 1: Pet a pet with but is so driven.
Speaker 6: Yeah. So, I mean he would have been great as
Speaker 6: a shepherd. You know, he he knew his his call. So,
Speaker 6: I mean, Tess knows what she's doing. But she's she's
Speaker 6: a tool. She's a hunting tool.
Speaker 3: Spence, I mean redundancy, Well, this other one isn't a
Speaker 3: sure thing, right.
Speaker 4: It's true, true, So, I mean in the hand, it's.
Speaker 3: Just like having two Baylors. One goes down, you got
Speaker 3: another one back.
Speaker 6: Baylor.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wonder why you can't hunt.
Speaker 5: You could hunt two dogs together bird dogs, sure, I
Speaker 5: mean you like two good bird dogs after.
Speaker 2: Here, Yeah, oh, you absolutely could hunt both of them.
Speaker 2: But a squirrel hunting, it's kind of a limiting factor
Speaker 2: of how many trees you can go to in an afternoon,
Speaker 2: like bear hunted tests and osage the other day.
Speaker 8: And I mean we were always going to a tree,
Speaker 8: sometimes even two trees at the same time, and it
Speaker 8: would take us too long to get there, and the
Speaker 8: squirrels would be in a whole or something.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, So it's just I don't know, it's just
Speaker 4: better to hunt like one dog.
Speaker 3: Yeah, could you guys not split up and double your
Speaker 3: squirrel efficiency?
Speaker 2: Well, social event, but that's why you know you're kind
Speaker 2: of there to have fun together, Misty.
Speaker 7: Well, so I have I'm very involved in the squirrel
Speaker 7: dog Yeah, the squirrel dog system here at the New
Speaker 7: co and Farm, and we have three and I have
Speaker 7: a ranking scale for them. But there's sociability and then
Speaker 7: there's squirrel You know, productivity, How good are you at
Speaker 7: squirrel hunting? And I think that these are two scales
Speaker 7: that have an inverse relationship. So the better you are
Speaker 7: at squirrel hunting, the less social. So let's let's start
Speaker 7: with everyone's favorite squirrel dog except for Clay, Tim Tim
Speaker 7: to squirreld dog. That guy is practically human, you know,
Speaker 7: he the kids we had Tim. We got Tim and
Speaker 7: test right in twenty nineteen, and so when we were
Speaker 7: all quarantined together at the house in twenty twenty, Tim
Speaker 7: he wants to He gets energized by anything that excites you.
Speaker 7: So we taught Tim to play to the harmonical or
Speaker 7: sing to the harmonica. And when he sings, it's not
Speaker 7: like he barks. It's like he sings.
Speaker 1: He's on pitch. I mean, it's beautiful melody. Yeah, better
Speaker 1: than me.
Speaker 7: It's almost as if this was what he was born
Speaker 7: to do. When you get the harmonica out, he gets
Speaker 7: excited and he gets his heart and soul in it.
Speaker 7: I mean he doesn't, he doesn't. He doesn't even pretend
Speaker 7: like this is not the most important thing.
Speaker 6: That assumes that a dog has a soul.
Speaker 7: Okay, So moving right along Tim. Bear taught Tim to
Speaker 7: respond to a toaster oven when in twenty twenty, when
Speaker 7: we were all home, Bear decide.
Speaker 6: He saw how easy straight you put it in.
Speaker 4: Off.
Speaker 7: So Bear realized that Tim just was interested in doing
Speaker 7: whatever we wanted to do. And so Bear said, hey, y'all,
Speaker 7: whenever I'm going to start toasting these waffles, and whenever
Speaker 7: I toast them, everyone when it pops up, everyone make
Speaker 7: a big deal. Let's see if we can get Tim.
Speaker 6: To do so it's a bright spot during the panel.
Speaker 7: It was this is what we did, and we're all
Speaker 7: quarty together. And so Tim would see us react and
Speaker 7: he would just bark, and he would get excited and
Speaker 7: he'd go sit there and we would all celebrate them
Speaker 7: and talk about what a good dog he was. The
Speaker 7: other day, I put a piece of toast in the
Speaker 7: in the toaster, and I'm home by myself, and I'm
Speaker 7: working downstairs, and it goes off, and I don't think
Speaker 7: anything about it except that Tim is upstairs, and when
Speaker 7: he hears that toaster oven go off. Four years later,
Speaker 7: he freaks out and just comes to running down the stairs,
Speaker 7: howling and barking, and goes right to the closet where
Speaker 7: we keep it, I mean just with nuts on it.
Speaker 1: So Tim, so she would sell tests.
Speaker 7: Tim cannot be given away test. She is a good dog.
Speaker 7: She really is a good but and she's not obnoxious,
Speaker 7: like she'll stop barking when you ask her to when
Speaker 7: place it's hush, she'll stop. She's really obed that probably
Speaker 7: like gives tests Like that's that's too confusing for her.
Speaker 7: She's a good dog, but she just doesn't you know,
Speaker 7: she comes in the house and she wants in your trash.
Speaker 7: She you you bring a cat home, and she trees it.
Speaker 7: You know, like she just she is interesting. Yeah, she's
Speaker 7: a machine. She's she's not a she's not a friend.
Speaker 7: I think O Sage is right in between the two.
Speaker 7: She's she has actually got the best. She's not as
Speaker 7: easily trained as Tim. I try to get her to
Speaker 7: sing to harmonica.
Speaker 4: So she always sell tests.
Speaker 7: I don't like this question. I don't want to.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 6: I don't know. That was a long monologue to like
Speaker 6: take some neutral position.
Speaker 7: Well, I mean she's a good girl.
Speaker 3: You know, chicken, she got your broilers, she got your
Speaker 3: meat birds, she got your layers. And then the then
Speaker 3: people try to always sell you on these dual purposes
Speaker 3: and it never works out. So like hearing now that
Speaker 3: you got kind of a dual purpose. And they're pretty
Speaker 3: and they're nice and they're fun, but what's going to
Speaker 3: put squirrels in the pots?
Speaker 6: I would I'd lean hard now.
Speaker 1: On keeping her, on keeping her, Yeah, keeping her?
Speaker 10: Wow?
Speaker 1: Wow, you know the price just went up.
Speaker 6: A double minded squirrell dog is unstable and.
Speaker 7: A single minded he's not getting squirrell.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm considering selling the dog.
Speaker 1: That's all, so appreciate it.
Speaker 6: So our opinion meant nothing?
Speaker 4: Well it did it?
Speaker 6: Did?
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just I'm thinking about it.
Speaker 6: So do we have a price now? Well?
Speaker 7: I want to bring in some inside family business that
Speaker 7: I probably shouldn't err on the podcast. I think this
Speaker 7: tendency when you have something really good that you know
Speaker 7: is super valuable to want to sell it, well, I
Speaker 7: think it has intergenerational.
Speaker 1: That's happened zero times in my life.
Speaker 2: All Right, No, Tess is worth right now, she's she's
Speaker 2: she's worth something, and soon she won't be. I mean, like,
Speaker 2: people probably aren't going to pay much for a seven
Speaker 2: year old dog that just doesn't have a lot of
Speaker 2: hunting time left.
Speaker 1: But so you know, she's's kind of at that. She's
Speaker 1: definitely older.
Speaker 2: I mean like if you were if you were wanting
Speaker 2: to buy a dog, you'd be hoping to buy two
Speaker 2: three year old dogs.
Speaker 1: So she's five and that's that's the thing.
Speaker 3: And your tax return, she's depreciated.
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, great, dad, You just bought a Bronco I did.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty four, twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4: Tell us about it. Well, it's just a you know,
Speaker 4: it's a it's a.
Speaker 6: Club. Did you have one of the old Broncos?
Speaker 4: Noweep I ran with. We were jeeping guys.
Speaker 5: And if you came and tried to ride with us
Speaker 5: and you you didn't have a jeep, we would just
Speaker 5: kind of giggle under our breath, except when a Bronco
Speaker 5: pulled up.
Speaker 4: Now they could run with the jeeps.
Speaker 5: But if you had I'm not gonna mention the brands,
Speaker 5: But when you came with something other than a jeep
Speaker 5: Ford Taurus, yeah, you know, you just really good off
Speaker 5: road rigs.
Speaker 4: People we see them all the time, but they just
Speaker 4: wouldn't run away. We were running. But the Broncos good.
Speaker 4: And this is this is a city boy rig.
Speaker 5: You know, I got my golf clubs in there, and
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna take it off road. It's got a
Speaker 5: plastic bumper in the plastic front. But if you just
Speaker 5: cruise roads and climb hill, I mean, you know, it's
Speaker 5: it's pretty capable.
Speaker 6: Man.
Speaker 5: It's it's locked front and back. Yeah, it's got all
Speaker 5: the off road stuff on it. It's it's got what's
Speaker 5: called the sasquash package, so it you know, it sets
Speaker 5: up high thirty five inch tires or got thirty five
Speaker 5: in right at thirty five?
Speaker 2: Has it got a a what I call a vine
Speaker 2: catcher bumper like.
Speaker 4: White light and no, no, it passes.
Speaker 6: We'll have to get you one of those. Yeah. Can
Speaker 6: it make it up my driveway?
Speaker 4: I doubt it.
Speaker 2: That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Uh Josh, let's
Speaker 2: let's let's let's do our osilo quiz.
Speaker 6: Okay, let's Gary, can you grab those? We got our
Speaker 6: marker boards here. Okay, we're gonna pass them out.
Speaker 7: We all know he's probably gonna win this one.
Speaker 6: Everybody, everybody study up the cards we got I don't
Speaker 6: need we gotta.
Speaker 2: All right, So this is this is our fourth episode
Speaker 2: on Ostola and the title was exhuoming Osiola's Grave and uh,
Speaker 2: just a just a little backstory on the on the sequence.
Speaker 2: So the first episode was about Oola's childhood, which was
Speaker 2: really interesting and talked a lot about the Seminoles. The
Speaker 2: second episode was the war years of Ossiola's life when
Speaker 2: he fought in the Seminole wars. Fascinating. The third episode
Speaker 2: was Ossiola's death, which was fascinating. Fourth episode, the epiloguist
Speaker 2: doctor Wickman called it is the exhuming of Osiola's grave.
Speaker 2: So I don't think there's anywhere on the internet that
Speaker 2: you could go to learn more about Osciola in four hours.
Speaker 1: Negative, no way, nothing, no way zero.
Speaker 6: The lady you had on there was like incredible.
Speaker 1: She's incredible, she is. And I talked to her this week.
Speaker 1: I called her.
Speaker 2: She hadn't heard any of the episodes. She didn't know,
Speaker 2: you know, she she wasn't up on podcasts.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: She's like, well, how where do you watch it?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: And uh, and she she.
Speaker 2: Was like, you know, after you left the other day,
Speaker 2: I thought of so many things that we missed, you know,
Speaker 2: that we could have talked.
Speaker 6: About that you didn't cover in the five hours. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh and and and I was, Yeah, I was.
Speaker 2: It was one of the longest and best interviews I've
Speaker 2: ever done on Bear Grease with someone just passionate and knowledge.
Speaker 2: I just went on and on about how good she was.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, we're.
Speaker 1: Gonna okay, here, we're gonna do a quiz. Here we go,
Speaker 1: So write down your answer, Spence.
Speaker 6: Okay, So we're gonna start here. We've got one, two, three, four,
Speaker 6: seven questions Okay, yep, and some of them are are
Speaker 6: not just based on fact, their conceptual questions. So prepare
Speaker 6: short answer. Okay, This first one, according to Seminole tradition,
Speaker 6: warriors buried facing east because this when the sun comes up.
Speaker 6: What does he use to transition to walk into the afterlife? Wow?
Speaker 4: Good question, Josh.
Speaker 6: Anybody remember that one? It was in the very opening
Speaker 6: section doctor Workman.
Speaker 4: Talking about.
Speaker 1: Looks like some people may not have been listening.
Speaker 6: Shoot, okay, everybody have their answers.
Speaker 1: Now, I'm I'm plain, but I don't really can't like
Speaker 1: I can't.
Speaker 6: We're gonna start with Bear Bear what.
Speaker 1: Had to guess it'd be the ocean?
Speaker 6: Okay, Gary, what's yours? Broncos Misty his right leg and Spence,
Speaker 6: I got nothing, Okay, Turkey tracks the The correct answer
Speaker 6: is when just as the sun's see you threw me
Speaker 6: off with his just as the sun's coming up, you
Speaker 6: can see the milky way, and that's uh, that's what
Speaker 6: he uses to transition. I was looking at the joke
Speaker 6: or the other. Okay, here's another another question that was used.
Speaker 6: Hopefully somebody can get this one. It was mentioned in
Speaker 6: there when when when the the soldiers were taking a
Speaker 6: seola to bury him. What was the name of the
Speaker 6: type of coffin that Ossola was buried in? I remember that.
Speaker 6: Come on, guys, I'll give you a hint. The first
Speaker 6: word of the coffin relates to a part of your body.
Speaker 6: I think I know this one. I got it.
Speaker 4: You got it, at least I got part of it.
Speaker 6: Okay, everybody got their answer.
Speaker 1: Bear ahead coffin, He wouldn't.
Speaker 4: Gary toe coffin? Okay, toe coffin.
Speaker 6: Misty bronco toepint. Answer is tow pincher. You got one one,
Speaker 6: mister Spencer has one. Gary, you get point five for
Speaker 6: that one. How about we do point four? Okay? Third question,
Speaker 6: what year was Ossiola's grave exemed? That was mentioned many
Speaker 6: times everybody, Oh, can we get it in the decade?
Speaker 6: Oh no, I would like the exact year. I didn't
Speaker 6: put an actual date on there, just a year. I
Speaker 6: don't think you mentioned the Actually, no, we didn't. We
Speaker 6: didn't say the actual the actual date. Okay, bear, I.
Speaker 1: Should quit going first. I'd say nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 4: Gary sixty seven.
Speaker 6: Okay, Misty sixty three, sixty five, nineteen sixty seven is
Speaker 6: the answer with.
Speaker 1: What were you doing in nineteen sixty seven?
Speaker 6: I was just.
Speaker 1: Digging up grade. First year in college, first year at college.
Speaker 1: Really when graduating sixty six?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 6: When were you in the army sixty.
Speaker 4: Nine, sixty eight? I think?
Speaker 5: So you went to college one year, one year. I
Speaker 5: graduated sixty six, college one year, and we go, we're
Speaker 5: gonna flunk out, Let's go to Let's go to the
Speaker 5: army and fight for a country.
Speaker 4: That's what we did now, me and my buddy.
Speaker 2: Realistically, though the Vietnam War was boiling. Yeah, and you
Speaker 2: knew that you were going to be drafted. Tell me
Speaker 2: that story.
Speaker 5: Well, my Actually the real story is my dad looked
Speaker 5: at me one day and he said, I don't think
Speaker 5: you're gonna make it in college boys really, and I go,
Speaker 5: I think you're probably right, daddy. I think I'll join
Speaker 5: the army. No, no, he was real nice. So I
Speaker 5: got my buddy, Jimmy Sears, and I go, Jimmy, it's
Speaker 5: time we make a move brother, and he went with
Speaker 5: me and we stayed together for three years. And then
Speaker 5: about a month after we went in, eight of our
Speaker 5: other buddies could have been six, but I think eight
Speaker 5: of them all decided, hey, that's a pretty good idea.
Speaker 4: So out of Hot Springs, you know, there's like ten
Speaker 4: guys that.
Speaker 6: A volunteer to go to Vietnam.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, we didn't volunteer to go to Vietnam.
Speaker 6: Well, you joined the army went to Europe.
Speaker 4: Well, no, we went to Europe.
Speaker 5: You know, we signed up an extra year to get
Speaker 5: the schooling that we wanted, and we said we'd like
Speaker 5: to be postal clerks. Seem pretty safe, yep. Yeah, And anyway,
Speaker 5: but you were in Vietnam. Yeah, so I go to
Speaker 5: Europe as a postal clerk. Actually I wanted in finance,
Speaker 5: but they made me go to postal. So I'm in
Speaker 5: Europe for fifteen months. We're traveling, you know, we're seeing Europe.
Speaker 4: Man. This is like a party deal going on.
Speaker 5: And all of a sudden we get this little letter
Speaker 5: that says, come on boys, we're going to the other
Speaker 5: side of.
Speaker 4: The world, to Vietnam. So how long are we in Vietnam?
Speaker 6: A year?
Speaker 3: A year in Vietnam? Okay, I did a year in Iraq.
Speaker 3: My story is almost the same. Dropped out of college
Speaker 3: playing a punk band, September eleventh, joined the army.
Speaker 6: You're in Iraq? Wow, graduated U of A when I
Speaker 6: got back, so nice.
Speaker 4: It is a lot like that. And then here here
Speaker 4: you are.
Speaker 6: And being a banker and a farmer's pretty much the
Speaker 6: same thing. I'm I'm excited about the future.
Speaker 7: I would like to hear Gary Gary Newcomb's punk record,
Speaker 7: punk album.
Speaker 6: Yeah right. Questions Okay, what was the name of the
Speaker 6: man who vandalized the grave of Osceola in nineteen sixty six?
Speaker 6: Last name? I will I will take last name.
Speaker 1: As a correct because his family name was Shame.
Speaker 6: Oh I remember, I remember? Oh, dang it. I was
Speaker 6: going to make a joke. Okay, we're going to start
Speaker 6: with the doctor Misty Newcomb.
Speaker 7: I may not have gotten to that point of the
Speaker 7: podcast because I did talk about this an awful lot
Speaker 7: before and bad guy.
Speaker 6: Bad guys Okay, bad guy Spencer Shriver Okay, Schneider, Schneider, Schneider.
Speaker 6: I remembered it, but by drivers his name Driver?
Speaker 1: Could I get like point two for that?
Speaker 6: One point two gets point?
Speaker 4: Do I get anything.
Speaker 7: One that I would like to get it for the sixties?
Speaker 6: Next question? It's another name. The next question is another.
Speaker 2: Let me stop for a minute, though, ODIs Driver was
Speaker 2: the reason that Osciola's grave was exist.
Speaker 10: Yes, you because he stolen He claimed to stole his
Speaker 10: bones and actually went to Fort Moultrie, broke in there
Speaker 10: and dug down into the grave.
Speaker 2: And uh, Misty was telling me that she brought up
Speaker 2: the comedy skit about the people digging holes? Was it
Speaker 2: Nate Barghetsi, Yeah, who's like, Who's like? You know, you
Speaker 2: always hear about people murdering people and digging like shallow graves.
Speaker 7: You were talking about how hard landscaping was his life.
Speaker 7: His wife wanted to plant some and he was like,
Speaker 7: you know, people murder someone and you hear him getting
Speaker 7: caught because they didn't bury it deep enough. It's literally
Speaker 7: the most important hole you ever dig in.
Speaker 1: Your entire life.
Speaker 7: And you're like, now we're just a call quits you.
Speaker 2: Basically just like ticket holes is really hard and uh
Speaker 2: and and so odors shreiver goes to the grave and
Speaker 2: like digs like a foot down and is like, I
Speaker 2: think I'll just say that I got the bones. And
Speaker 2: he actually took animal bones back.
Speaker 6: Oh he did take Yeah.
Speaker 1: This wasn't on the podcast.
Speaker 2: What animal He just had some animal bones that he
Speaker 2: you know, like this is Osceola's bones. One does and
Speaker 2: buried him and like went on with the whole shtick.
Speaker 2: And so the National Park archaeologists were like, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: did he really And they go to the grave and
Speaker 2: it's like, well, somebody dug. But if there's just a hole,
Speaker 2: you can't tell if they dug six inches or if
Speaker 2: they dug the whole way down. And so the archaeologist,
Speaker 2: which I thought it was kind of funny too, archaeologists
Speaker 2: always want to dig, yes, which I don't blame him,
Speaker 2: it's their job. And he was like, well, we might
Speaker 2: as well assume the whole grave and make casting of
Speaker 2: his bones and you know, just do the whole thing.
Speaker 2: And so this guy in nineteen sixty seven does it,
Speaker 2: and guess who knew the guy.
Speaker 4: Like, well, friends, but.
Speaker 6: Lady, careful now that we're leading into other questions.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, no, we know Patricia's name.
Speaker 4: She knew the guy.
Speaker 1: It's pretty it's pretty interesting.
Speaker 3: I like to point out how good the army is
Speaker 3: at digging holes, like they put that casket down deep,
Speaker 3: because that's about the.
Speaker 6: Only thing we do wells digging.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I didn't get a bunch of mail in Iraq,
Speaker 3: so I don't even postal clerk and ain't something either,
Speaker 3: So but digging holes, we can do it.
Speaker 7: It's the second time in this recording that your hole
Speaker 7: digging has been that's true, so you must be very
Speaker 7: good at that.
Speaker 6: Okay, okay, next question on you know, going on what
Speaker 6: Clay just said, What was the name of the National
Speaker 6: Park official who led the exhumation of Osciola's grave. One
Speaker 6: point for first name, which was mentioned several times. Now
Speaker 6: Clay didn't get to finish the store. Second point two
Speaker 6: points if you can name the full name and doctor
Speaker 6: Wickman mentions mentions his name, I call him so and
Speaker 6: so because I knew him. Mm hmm man, she'd be
Speaker 6: good at this. Okay, mister Spencer will start again. Okay, nothing, Misty,
Speaker 6: Johnny Nature John is correct.
Speaker 4: Gary we.
Speaker 6: Wrong, wrong Bear, it's Bronco. His correct name was John Griffin.
Speaker 1: That's triangles too.
Speaker 3: You know, you don't give up on the play. That's
Speaker 3: what mister Newcomb just proved.
Speaker 7: Okay.
Speaker 6: And for for our last question, this one's a little
Speaker 6: more conceptual. I'll be I'll be the decided.
Speaker 2: I want I want questions that people have to give
Speaker 2: like a speech, and we guess.
Speaker 6: This is this is the one. This is the one. Okay,
Speaker 6: Actually it's actually two part.
Speaker 1: You can't start with multi to.
Speaker 6: What university uses traditional seminal image likeness to represent them.
Speaker 6: Everyone should get this one right, Okay, Okay, Misty, Florida
Speaker 6: Florida State will take it. Spencer a team even Arkansas
Speaker 6: could beat Florida Florida. Point of order, Florida is not correct,
Speaker 6: University of those dims the Gators. Not that that's right. Okay,
Speaker 6: you didn't earn.
Speaker 4: That, I got?
Speaker 7: I got?
Speaker 6: Okay. If you can't, the university uses seminal image images
Speaker 6: and likenesses to represent them. Why is this significant? Well,
Speaker 6: write it down. Maybe a little too broad, No, it's
Speaker 6: not too broad. There was there were a couple of
Speaker 6: real specific things that were mentioned by Mayo. Why that
Speaker 6: was significant?
Speaker 4: Okay, can you repeat the question?
Speaker 6: Yes, the University of the Florida State University uses images
Speaker 6: and likenesses to represent them. Why is this significant? Okay,
Speaker 6: Gary Nukeomb.
Speaker 5: It was sanctioned by the Indians themselves. They had they
Speaker 5: had an image that they didn't like. The Indians didn't
Speaker 5: like it, so they changed it and they approved it,
Speaker 5: and they said.
Speaker 6: Okay, a one point for Gary Nucomb Misty.
Speaker 7: Well, I was going to say it's controversial, but it's
Speaker 7: not in this case. It's it's a controversial thing to
Speaker 7: do modern in modern times, I mean.
Speaker 4: Just like in the last like two years.
Speaker 7: Well, that's why Josh didn't ask the question. My follow
Speaker 7: up was going to be twenty four what does your
Speaker 7: boards say common controversy and Teddy Bear?
Speaker 6: Okay, I'll think about this one. Yes, decision making rights accurate, Garb.
Speaker 6: I'll accept that because the tribe approach FSU, that's correct,
Speaker 6: and they have inputsh agents, it was a partnership with FSU. Bear,
Speaker 6: I don't have How is that not the answer? What's
Speaker 6: that not the answer? Because they're like one of the
Speaker 6: few and clay, What did you write accurate clothing partners,
Speaker 6: not mascots. That was the other highlight. Yeah, these are
Speaker 6: not These are not mascots. It's the only team I
Speaker 6: believe that I know of that doesn't have an official mascot.
Speaker 6: What about the utah Utes? Isn't that a isn't that who? UTAs?
Speaker 6: What is a unit? I'm probably in the room the
Speaker 6: American Tribe. Okay, hey, when.
Speaker 2: I I had it had been a while since I
Speaker 2: thought much about FSU.
Speaker 4: They're not trying to throw shade on them.
Speaker 6: They're like two and ten this year or something.
Speaker 2: Well, no, but when I when I pulled up and
Speaker 2: saw the war chant in that stadium with you know,
Speaker 2: eighty thousand people, So you.
Speaker 3: Saw that that recording? Was that you did you make
Speaker 3: that recording?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: No, okay, no, no, no, no, I I just got it
Speaker 2: off the internet.
Speaker 1: But but uh, but it was.
Speaker 2: It's pretty powerful, especially knowing that there actually is a
Speaker 2: little bit of there's some meat on that rhone that
Speaker 2: they partnered with the tribe, and so you know, an
Speaker 2: actual seminole is the one who rides out on this
Speaker 2: Apple Usa horse with a flaming spear. Well, they do
Speaker 2: their war chant and that's pretty cool. Yeah, i'd be
Speaker 2: really it was. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 3: You think about like the struggle to like to not
Speaker 3: be forgotten by modern society for like Native people's and
Speaker 3: that's a whole Like it's ingenious, you know, like because
Speaker 3: I mean it's on display, your your traditions are accurate.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know. I think it's I think it's awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do think that there probably are some
Speaker 2: I don't know that everybody likes it, right, I think Chandler.
Speaker 4: Demeyo, who was the one who we spoke with, and
Speaker 4: he was.
Speaker 2: A young guy, and uh uh I have heard not
Speaker 2: from him, not from anybody that unofficially, but some of
Speaker 2: the older generations sometimes don't like it.
Speaker 4: That's what I heard.
Speaker 6: And I mean, you know, just I appreciated his opinion.
Speaker 6: I mean he literally was like giving his opinion. He's like,
Speaker 6: I actually think I appreciate the way it's represented. You know.
Speaker 6: I think if you're going to have it, involving the
Speaker 6: tribe and showing a level of respect not just exploitation,
Speaker 6: is valuable.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, Christy and I were talking this morning.
Speaker 6: She's like, what what's the takeaway? From this series, and
Speaker 6: I think one of the biggest takeaways is just to
Speaker 6: to bring awareness to the struggles and the fight and
Speaker 6: the the things that have happened over the years. I think,
Speaker 6: I think when when that history gets lost, that's when
Speaker 6: when cycles are repeated. And so I think this has
Speaker 6: been a great, a great series to just bring awareness.
Speaker 6: I knew the name Asiola. I didn't know anything about Asiola,
Speaker 6: and I think it's important to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think you learn I learn a
Speaker 2: lot about American history inside of these things.
Speaker 4: Just if you if you listen.
Speaker 2: To all the historical Bear Grease episodes, like it's it's
Speaker 2: not like a class on American history, but yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: you learn about Andrew Jackson, you learn about the Indian
Speaker 2: Removal Act, you learn about the kind of the context
Speaker 2: of society and what was going on, just by kind
Speaker 2: of hyper focusing on one little section. And if you
Speaker 2: do that ten times, you kind of you start to
Speaker 2: build a bigger story of kind of how things happened.
Speaker 2: Because that's the way it's happened for me. Because I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm not a historian, I'm really not, but and so
Speaker 2: I'm I'm I'm learning.
Speaker 4: All this as we go, you know.
Speaker 2: But I tell you what I took away from Osceola
Speaker 2: is actually how little we knew about him as a person.
Speaker 2: We actually didn't know. He only lived thirty four years
Speaker 2: and there were only like two years of his life
Speaker 2: that he was in the spotlight, you know, we talked
Speaker 2: in kind of to me, that was one of the
Speaker 2: most interesting things about him, was that he had this
Speaker 2: like global fame. Yeah, at a time when the world
Speaker 2: was kind of looking on to America in the frontier
Speaker 2: and Native Americans, and he was for for like two
Speaker 2: years before he died, he had this global fame, which
Speaker 2: he was in prison, wasn't he Well he was in.
Speaker 1: Prison for the last three months of those two years,
Speaker 1: you know, and.
Speaker 2: So he would have had very little probably understanding of
Speaker 2: his own his own recognition, and that also probably wouldn't
Speaker 2: have been something that he would have been that concerned about.
Speaker 2: Like like we did talk about how you know, he
Speaker 2: was known to kind of have an ego, Like that
Speaker 2: was something that a theme that you see that you know, he.
Speaker 4: Was just.
Speaker 1: He had some interest in being known for something, but
Speaker 1: that like that was like not his goal.
Speaker 2: You know, But you don't you don't really ever see
Speaker 2: you don't ever there's no transcripts of big speeches that
Speaker 2: he did.
Speaker 1: There's so much was lost.
Speaker 2: But anyway, what stood out to you, Spence, anything anything
Speaker 2: from the whole series?
Speaker 6: Yeah, the whole series.
Speaker 3: It's just you had a quote at the I think
Speaker 3: it was the last one where you you know, you
Speaker 3: said with Solomon that there's nothing new under the sun,
Speaker 3: and you talked about like the abortion thing with the
Speaker 3: with the woman there, and even just like listening to it,
Speaker 3: you see stuff like even now like we're talking about
Speaker 3: not to be political, but millet the military deport you know,
Speaker 3: potentially rounding up a large section of population.
Speaker 6: And that's what I thought about.
Speaker 3: I thought about And I'm not passing judgment either way,
Speaker 3: but you know, it's like every couple hundred years, it's
Speaker 3: just seems like with the Japanese, with the Native Americans,
Speaker 3: and then you know you even just stuff with like
Speaker 3: in that what eighteen thirty old AJ was like all
Speaker 3: the treaties are, we're not doing them anymore. Yeah, And
Speaker 3: like as a veteran who got kind of knocked around
Speaker 3: in Iraq, like there's a lot of scuttle but about
Speaker 3: you know, canceling a lot of the VA stuff, and
Speaker 3: you know, people are like, oh, the government never do that.
Speaker 3: And then I'm listening to this series and it's like
Speaker 3: like that I'm stepping my fingers, but it's like and
Speaker 3: it's just gone. And so I don't know, I just
Speaker 3: you know, there's a story of those that don't know
Speaker 3: the past are destined to repeat it. And I think
Speaker 3: there's just a lot of value when you take these dives, uh,
Speaker 3: like with Osceola, with comes, with Daniel Boone, you know
Speaker 3: you or Davy Crockett maybe you did them both. Uh
Speaker 3: you know, Like I just I think we learn a
Speaker 3: lot about ourselves in our our culture, in our society.
Speaker 6: And and and I think I just think it's incredibly valuable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think governments are inherently interested in
Speaker 2: their in their best interests.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's essentially boils down every decision, good and
Speaker 2: bad that's been made by governments is that they're they're
Speaker 2: working in their own self interest, which is is supposed
Speaker 2: to be in the end interest of the people. But
Speaker 2: then it's like, well, it can't be an interest of
Speaker 2: all people. He's got to be interest of maybe the
Speaker 2: majority of people. But I mean, don't you know, it's
Speaker 2: just like injustice.
Speaker 3: And even like that interplay like you talked about what
Speaker 3: you're talking about earlier about giving these little peaks and
Speaker 3: how people were like the culture was pro pro oh Ciola,
Speaker 3: you know, like people saw him as a hero, you know,
Speaker 3: at the same time they were looking to to stop
Speaker 3: what he did. And I don't know, so even that
Speaker 3: like interplay between culture and government, it's it doesn't necessarily
Speaker 3: always line up in our society, you know, And that's interesting.
Speaker 3: You could have podcasts upon podcasts like you said earlier
Speaker 3: about about this man and it's legit, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Ostiola Bear, whatsood out to you? Just like whole
Speaker 2: whole takeaway the whole series.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think the kind of both of you guys
Speaker 8: have said, but just it kind of opened my eyes
Speaker 8: to a lot of history that I would have never
Speaker 8: known it also, and teach you that in school they
Speaker 8: didn't well but you heard some like like you said,
Speaker 8: some like familiar names that you would have learned, you know,
Speaker 8: Andrew Jackson then but then but it was kind of
Speaker 8: interesting to see that side of it.
Speaker 6: Also.
Speaker 8: It kind of, at least for me, removed a lot
Speaker 8: of preconceived kind of stereotypes of like Native Americans and
Speaker 8: stuff like. It just kind of tore down a lot
Speaker 8: of things that you that are just kind of like
Speaker 8: almost built into the.
Speaker 1: I don't know, the way that the cultural way that we.
Speaker 8: Would see Native Americans just like in like movies and stuff,
Speaker 8: you kind of have this image, but this definitely like
Speaker 8: tore it down and kind of put them on a
Speaker 8: more you know, realistic level.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 8: And then overall I thought the story was like a
Speaker 8: very it was a it was it was a bear
Speaker 8: grease story, you know, like there there were so many
Speaker 8: different aspects to it, and like you said at the
Speaker 8: beginning of the most recent podcast, sometimes the reality is
Speaker 8: you know, I can't remember exactly what you said, but it's.
Speaker 4: Bad than the myth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was like his bear grease lye soap
Speaker 1: to wash that off, all.
Speaker 8: Right, Yeah, but like it was wild, like even in
Speaker 8: this last episode, like Osiol has been dead for like
Speaker 8: how many years, like one hundred years, and there's still
Speaker 8: stuff going on and there's still twisting turns in the story.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was overall a great series.
Speaker 4: We uh.
Speaker 1: To ask a specific question about.
Speaker 2: About the the the child in the grave with Ostiola.
Speaker 4: What do you think about that? Dad? I couldn't even
Speaker 4: relate to it. I mean, it just where this kid
Speaker 4: come from?
Speaker 6: Man?
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe when did you well, maybe I missed something,
Speaker 5: you know, did I write they say something I didn't hear.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I just was like, what about the
Speaker 4: first reader.
Speaker 5: I'm sitting in the back of the class, thinking about
Speaker 5: what I'm gonna do at recess, you know.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden there's a kid down there.
Speaker 4: All of a sudden there's a test, and I'm going,
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the way it hit anybody that learns
Speaker 2: the story. It's like they're digging down to check out
Speaker 2: Osceola to confirm that he was in fact headless. You know,
Speaker 2: it wouldn't have been too surprising for them to get
Speaker 2: down there and learn that his head was there and
Speaker 2: that the whole head thing was just a myth, because
Speaker 2: before there was you know, i mean, the world before
Speaker 2: video documentation, audio documentation, typewriters, you know, the ability to
Speaker 2: really document stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, the world was just full of you didn't
Speaker 1: know if something was true or not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you know, but when they got down there,
Speaker 2: they actually confirmed that he did not have a head,
Speaker 2: and then you know, and the way his body was
Speaker 2: pushed up way to the front of the grave that
Speaker 2: he had been dropped in there. And then but I
Speaker 2: guess the way we have, I guess we really have
Speaker 2: most of the information that there is. But with the
Speaker 2: way the information was presented, Josh, what do you think
Speaker 2: you heard me say that?
Speaker 4: I didn't. It was the only time.
Speaker 2: And it's not like I'm disagreeing with doctor Wickman, but
Speaker 2: she was very convinced knowing, and I mean, golly, she's
Speaker 2: got more right to have an opinion than I do.
Speaker 2: But just in general, I didn't feel like it was
Speaker 2: really fair to just be like a you know, a
Speaker 2: mother killed her child and buried it. It was just like,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, we just don't have enough data to
Speaker 2: say that. I mean, maybe the child got sick. Maybe
Speaker 2: it was a great coincidence, if there is such a thing,
Speaker 2: and the child died of pneumonia within hours of ostiola.
Speaker 4: I don't know, what do you think.
Speaker 6: Gosh, I don't know. I mean, that's a tough one
Speaker 6: because there doesn't seem a logical reason for any of it, right,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, so it's like there's so
Speaker 6: many wild cards that play there that you just it's
Speaker 6: it's hard to even I mean, it's it would be speculation.
Speaker 6: You know, any any possible scenario would be speculating.
Speaker 4: I just thought of something, Why couldn't they do DNA annow.
Speaker 6: But they'd have to exam him again unless they had
Speaker 6: unless they had DNA from when they exemmed him. Because
Speaker 6: I had the same thought, I was like, why don't
Speaker 6: they just do DNA? But they wouldn't have known to
Speaker 6: do DNA testing at that point in nineteen sixty seven.
Speaker 7: Do you think that maybe we know more than everyone else.
Speaker 3: It's like a cold case mystery. I mean, this could
Speaker 3: be your next branch of the Beargers podcast.
Speaker 1: We're going back down.
Speaker 7: Podcast.
Speaker 4: What do you think?
Speaker 5: I know the answer? It was a graveyard. You know,
Speaker 5: we've got a graveyard. I live in a subdivision. We
Speaker 5: got a graveyard that when y'all were little kids, we
Speaker 5: walked over and had to williams of a tree or
Speaker 5: you know, pulled the witch and sticks and then out
Speaker 5: in the woods. I think I took you to another grave.
Speaker 5: I'm just out hunting. I'm looking here to swimpter well,
Speaker 5: you know those two stones gets moved. You know, they
Speaker 5: buried him and there was a little girl next to him,
Speaker 5: and they didn't know what until nineteen sixty seven.
Speaker 6: I just discovered it. And I hate to bring this
Speaker 6: topic back up for a third time.
Speaker 4: We're going to talk about the vine again.
Speaker 6: Nope, for a third time in this podcast. Digging a
Speaker 6: hole is hard if you've already got a whole point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably true, easier to do well.
Speaker 2: I think what you're saying, Dad makes a lot of sense,
Speaker 2: and it's going to go to this is like, what
Speaker 2: if it was complete coincidence that they just dug a
Speaker 2: straight wall grave that just happened to be right next
Speaker 2: to right next to where they buried a little a
Speaker 2: little kid.
Speaker 3: I think the why to me, I think you can
Speaker 3: miss something if you don't con it. Or the fact
Speaker 3: that a new mother's situation is so terrible that she
Speaker 3: saw it as a kindness. Sure, because like when it
Speaker 3: talked about Ossila, and I'm probably saying that wrong, but
Speaker 3: you look at that Clay's got a picture there and
Speaker 3: it's this real proud man. He was covered in lice
Speaker 3: because like of the way he was confined. I mean
Speaker 3: this is you know, like when you when you talked
Speaker 3: about just culturally, like they talked about the tree on
Speaker 3: this piece of property and all that. And now he's
Speaker 3: confined in a cell like where he can't he can't
Speaker 3: experience like his whole life. And for that woman, their
Speaker 3: whole society, their whole everything, even more so than us,
Speaker 3: like and and and the best case journey is that
Speaker 3: those that child would have went on something that riding
Speaker 3: our own neck of the woods is called the Trail
Speaker 3: of Tears. Yeah, like, I mean there was that they
Speaker 3: were facing horrific and and I don't know, I think
Speaker 3: it takes some of the the sting out that that
Speaker 3: maybe needs to be there to consider why that and
Speaker 3: other reasons why that could yeah, could have been the
Speaker 3: great Does that make sense? Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean I think it's it's perfectly plausible
Speaker 2: that that it was it was a seminole child that
Speaker 2: could have been you know, in fantaside.
Speaker 3: Because other you said, other society, I know, Greek and
Speaker 3: Romans did that.
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's fairly common that it
Speaker 2: hunter gathers this ancient hunter gathered societies that you know,
Speaker 2: infantaside was was common.
Speaker 1: So it's like it's it's it would be in the playbook,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: But so I'm not discounting that bit of a downer,
Speaker 2: but I'm not discounting it even a little bit. But
Speaker 2: I also think I hadn't thought of that, Dad. Maybe
Speaker 2: it's just maybe they just dug a hole and just
Speaker 2: happened to be right beside a little infant. And would
Speaker 2: you have put a big old headstone and done a
Speaker 2: big old thing for an infant.
Speaker 4: Maybe not.
Speaker 2: I mean maybe it just would have been like man
Speaker 2: the child, you know, maybe it was dead when it
Speaker 2: was born and they had to bury it and it
Speaker 2: was unmarked.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not connected to osiola at all at all.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think a lot more important issue is that
Speaker 5: his head was in a jar in the picture window
Speaker 5: of the store door.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean can you imagine that.
Speaker 3: Was it ever reburied like in return?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that was a hosted we don't know
Speaker 2: where it's at, you know, that was that was still missing.
Speaker 2: That was a big part of episode three is that
Speaker 2: it's it's still gone. It's it's and and doctor Patricia
Speaker 2: Wigman thinks it's still out there.
Speaker 4: I mean, what kind of society would want to look
Speaker 4: at a head in front of a dealer's department store.
Speaker 2: Hey, the eighteen hundreds, it was eighteen hundreds were wild, yeah, wild.
Speaker 1: And they would look at us and say this exact
Speaker 1: same thing.
Speaker 4: They would look at.
Speaker 2: Some of the brutal of some of the stuff going
Speaker 2: on today and be like, Kyle, Leen, I bet you
Speaker 2: people had a lot of buckskin stuff in the store
Speaker 2: back then.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, down on a little rock started.
Speaker 2: Uh, well, Misty, do you have any thoughts on the
Speaker 2: on the on the child.
Speaker 7: No, you know, I'll just say for the whole series,
Speaker 7: and and kind of to spends this point as well,
Speaker 7: and the whole series. I think it was when we
Speaker 7: were I'm ninety percent sure when we interviewed Chief Been
Speaker 7: Barnes for the to come to interview, he said, don't
Speaker 7: talk about us unless you talk with us. That was
Speaker 7: a quote that that their tribe had and that they
Speaker 7: didn't want everyone else to tell their story. They wanted
Speaker 7: to be included in telling their story. And I think
Speaker 7: every time you do one of these series, it just
Speaker 7: it does go to show like we when we interpret history,
Speaker 7: we are interpreting it through a very narrow lens of
Speaker 7: the time on Earth that we were born, where we
Speaker 7: were raised, the cultural norms of our time, and you
Speaker 7: really you can't do that, You've got to And I
Speaker 7: think it is accuracy, yeah, and illuminated, Yeah, a whole
Speaker 7: different way of thinking about things, looking at situations. And
Speaker 7: I think on on both ends, both sides of this thing,
Speaker 7: it it it. There would be just like, why would
Speaker 7: you have a head in a store? That's not something
Speaker 7: that I would have. That to me that that person
Speaker 7: is brutal and they are terrible, and and anyone that
Speaker 7: would do that, But the assumption would be if you
Speaker 7: put it in the store's because that's a not a
Speaker 7: crazy thing to do at that time, that's not quite
Speaker 7: as insane as it seems to us now. But I
Speaker 7: think it also does you you interpret the Seminal people
Speaker 7: and their story differently. And I think, again, Patricia Wickman
Speaker 7: best best interview you've ever done, and she by living
Speaker 7: among them, and I mean she really I felt like
Speaker 7: gate did justice to their to their story and to
Speaker 7: their perspective, and I think it added value to all
Speaker 7: of our all of our lands.
Speaker 6: One of the things I liked about her too, is
Speaker 6: that she probably knew the history better than any one
Speaker 6: individual in the tribe. But at the same time, she
Speaker 6: never tried to like assimilate into them, like she always
Speaker 6: knew like this is their history, not my history, and
Speaker 6: and just held it very honorably. And that was one
Speaker 6: of the things that I really liked about the way
Speaker 6: that she communicated about the Seminoles is that she was
Speaker 6: she was she was telling her story, but she it's
Speaker 6: not like she had weaseled her way into the tribe,
Speaker 6: and she was.
Speaker 11: But it was real clear to me that that the
Speaker 11: thing she was probably most proud of in her career
Speaker 11: at least was that she lived on that reservation with those.
Speaker 1: People, like she really loved those people.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, uh, that was very clear.
Speaker 6: I liked her because she was like protective of the truth.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, like no matter which way cuts like, she's
Speaker 3: just like, no, this is this is how they would
Speaker 3: have been thinking then. Yeah, And sometimes it surprised you
Speaker 3: either way, you know, and it just I really appreciated
Speaker 3: just her her tenacity for.
Speaker 2: Veracity, veracity wow, wow.
Speaker 6: Tenacity for bear grease, tenacity for veracity.
Speaker 2: Well, hey, it's been it's been a great conversation. Thanks
Speaker 2: for thanks for coming up. Dad, and uh, Misty and
Speaker 2: Spence and everybody, uh, anything we're supposed to talk about.
Speaker 6: Josh, I don't think so. I think we covered it.
Speaker 4: Covered it all.
Speaker 6: Yep.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm always a little bit sad when we move
Speaker 2: on from a from a from a character. But something
Speaker 2: that happens pretty often is that people hear the episodes
Speaker 2: and start doing research or they they know something and
Speaker 2: they contact me and they're like, hey, man, you gotta
Speaker 2: you gotta do this, you gotta come talk to this guy.
Speaker 2: And it's always kind of sad because it's like, for
Speaker 2: doing what we do, you kind of have to like
Speaker 2: move on, like like I'm already researching stuff that's going
Speaker 2: to come out and and and I don't want to
Speaker 2: say I'm done with these guys because I feel like
Speaker 2: they kind of stay with me. But uh, but anyway,
Speaker 2: Ostiola heck of a guy toast Osiola