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Speaker 1: Too Much Information was a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome the Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 2: that brings you the little known details, behind the scenes,

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Speaker 2: history behind your favorite movies, music, TV shows and more.

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Speaker 2: We are your flying monkeys of facts, You're overgrown munchkins

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Speaker 2: of miscellany, you're anti EM's of ephemera, your men behind

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Speaker 2: the curtain of arcana. Come your way like twin twisters

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Speaker 2: of tedium for an episode that is totally packed with trivia.

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Speaker 2: If I only had a brain, that intro would have

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Speaker 2: been better.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jordan, Run Talk and I'm Alex yu

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Speaker 1: U Jordan. Welcome back. I feel like we do owe

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Speaker 1: listeners something of an explanation. You had pneumonia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. I had a nuclear grade.

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Speaker 1: Don't apologize for it. My god.

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Speaker 2: That's a New England thing is when you get sick,

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Speaker 2: we kind of view it as like a personal failing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, well it is, but you don't have to

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Speaker 1: call attention to it. That's what I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, folks, I'm officially the youngest person I know to

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Speaker 2: ever get pneumonia, which kind of goes along with my

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Speaker 2: whole old soul thing.

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Speaker 1: It does. The only way it would have been funny

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Speaker 1: is if it had been like tuberculosis, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or consumption one of those the same thing.

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Speaker 2: I know, I didn't know that, Yeah, diphtheria.

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Speaker 1: What else? Did people die in the Oregon trail of smallpox?

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Speaker 1: I think there's like a racial side to that. Maybe

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Speaker 1: did you get that blanket I sent you? Though?

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Speaker 2: Yes, folks, I gotta say, be careful out there. This

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Speaker 2: season is particularly brutal, with lots of nasty stuff going around.

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Speaker 1: This is like the realist we've ever got on this show.

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Speaker 1: Like Jordan was actually very sick. Be nice to him.

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Speaker 2: No, I am so excited to get back in the saddle.

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Speaker 2: It's been like three weeks and I'm finally mostly feeling

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Speaker 2: like myself. But you know, during the period when my

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Speaker 2: brain was cooking, I tormented my dear co host Alex

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Speaker 2: Haigil by texting him a series of random nonsense.

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Speaker 1: Did you want do you want me to start reading

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Speaker 1: these off? Did you want to read them? Or should I?

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Speaker 2: Oh, you should because I barely remember them. I think

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Speaker 2: I remember having the idea of incorporating an Orson Wells

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Speaker 2: soundboard into the show. Yes, which wouldn't be the worst

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Speaker 2: idea in the world.

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Speaker 1: So Thursday, January sixteenth, you were like fevers at one

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Speaker 1: hundred and four, I'm going to get in the tub,

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Speaker 1: and then I fell asleep to this with a screenshot

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Speaker 1: of the Adolph Eichmann trial. Oh yeah, I was watching

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Speaker 1: a lot of World War Two documentaries and then woke

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Speaker 1: up to Buffalo Boner to the tune of Bob Marley

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Speaker 1: playing with lifelike volume. Oh yeah, Buffalo Soldier. Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: I just have Orson Wells interviews on in the background.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking of making a Tim and Eric like soundboard.

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Speaker 1: I was going to clip them.

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Speaker 2: I was going to clip them and then just like randomly,

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Speaker 2: instead of the taco bell sound effect, just have him

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Speaker 2: saying I never met Stalin.

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Speaker 1: I never met Stalin, you know, literally tears of rage.

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Speaker 1: Watched Chindler's List for the first time. Liam Neeson looked

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Speaker 1: disturbingly like my dad in the nineties, and then a

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Speaker 1: picture of Orson Welles laughing that says like a mature baby.

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Speaker 1: He does. He looks like a big baby. I've become

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Speaker 1: fixated on the idea that you should be dancing by

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Speaker 1: the begis is incredibly foreboding, an ominous it haunts me.

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Speaker 1: Capital h It's like Dick York's bagpipes.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, when he was detoxing, he couldn't sleep because

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Speaker 2: he just heard the sound of the bagpipes.

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Speaker 1: And I just heard you should be dancing.

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Speaker 2: It's a really scary like now, I'm frightened of it.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like the Imperial March to me, it's like

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Speaker 2: really freaky.

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Speaker 1: Hey man, I wanted to see what God only knows

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Speaker 1: sounded like condensed into five seconds. So I took the

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Speaker 1: song and cut it into thirty five five second segments

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Speaker 1: and layered them all on top of each other. Check

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Speaker 1: it out. I wonder if Steve Reich ever thought of that.

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Speaker 1: Next text, Doc says, I have pneumonia. What if waxing

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Speaker 1: my tips is a thing? Now? Oh yeah my mustache? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't do that. Yeah no, I won't do that. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: There was no context to that either.

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Speaker 1: No, okay, yeah, you really put up with a lot

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Speaker 1: that well. I don't know if you would include this.

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Speaker 1: I just realized that I've combined my buddy Valentine and

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Speaker 1: my chemical romance into one band. All this time, I.

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Speaker 2: Will say, to honor our new friend of the pod,

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Speaker 2: I've been listening to I'm Not Okay over and over again.

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Speaker 2: I repeat ever since we tape that it's a great song.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, So now my brain is kind of returned.

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Speaker 2: But I will say, after a few weeks of being

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Speaker 2: laid up in bed with my frontal cortex getting poached

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Speaker 2: like an egg, there's something oddly fitting about tackling a

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Speaker 2: movie where the plot is the brain damaged dream of

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Speaker 2: a young girl who suffered a serious head injury. Folks today,

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Speaker 2: and I slightly belated nod to the world beating success

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Speaker 2: at the big screen adaptation of Wicked, directed by my

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Speaker 2: cousin in law, John Chew. We're talking about a little

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Speaker 2: movie called The Wizard of Oz. If you're not familiar,

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Speaker 2: let me provide a brief one sentence summary courtesy of

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Speaker 2: TV writer Rick Poalito. Transported to a surreal landscape, a

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Speaker 2: young girl kills the first person she meets, and then

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Speaker 2: teams up with three strangers.

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Speaker 1: To kill again. The Wizard of Oz.

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Speaker 2: It ranks high on many prestigious lists of the greatest

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Speaker 2: films of all time. The American Film Institute ranked at

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Speaker 2: number ten on THEIRS in two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 1: This, of course is subjective, but what's less subjective is

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Speaker 1: that this is quite possibly the most recognized movie in history. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's the thing. Who doesn't know about this? Right?

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Speaker 2: And that's so crazy to me because it's kind of

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Speaker 2: a weird movie when you.

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Speaker 1: Get down to it. Oh yeah, it very much is, dude.

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Speaker 2: Do in large part to regular airings on network TV

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Speaker 2: in the side and half of the twentieth century. Heigel's

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Speaker 2: beloved Library of Congress estimated in the year two thousand

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Speaker 2: that The Wizard of Oz has been seen by more

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Speaker 2: viewers than any film in history. In fact, to me,

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Speaker 2: it's the movie that comes to mind when I think

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Speaker 2: about the very concept of movies. Yeah, right, Heigel, what

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Speaker 2: do you think about the Wizard of Oz? I don't know,

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Speaker 2: because what do I think about the Ocean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, like it's so big. It was on

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Speaker 1: TV once a year, and it was one of those

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Speaker 1: things where it was like everyone would like get together

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't like a social thing. It was just

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Speaker 1: somehow like my family would end up just like congregating

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Speaker 1: around the TV, like time to watch Words of Oz.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I've since debunked a lot of the

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Speaker 1: things that you hear about it. Yeah, we'll talk a

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Speaker 1: lot about that. I've since come to recognize much of

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Speaker 1: its importance to the gay community. Talk a lot about that.

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Speaker 1: I just don't really like. Here's the thing, this is

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Speaker 1: not like an especially interesting fantasy world. To me explain,

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Speaker 1: It's kind of boring.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I mean, don't forget the technicolor thing got a

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Speaker 2: lot of mileage in nineteen thirty nine.

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Speaker 1: Oh sure. I don't mean anything about like the aesthetics

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Speaker 1: of it. I just mean, like, the guy who wrote Wicked,

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Speaker 1: Gregory Maguire, has written eight books in the OZ universe. No,

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Speaker 1: I lied, I lied, I lied whatever I said, plus

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Speaker 1: one because he also wrote a short story of the

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Speaker 1: life story of the Scarecrow. But that is not a

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Speaker 1: part of the Wicked years, which are all the ones

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Speaker 1: that focus on the Wicked Witch of the West.

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Speaker 2: And that's not even counting all the original Frank Baumb books,

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Speaker 2: which are like fourteen or seventeen or something.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and I get, I mean, I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: can't say anything about this without sign a misogynist or

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Speaker 1: like or at least very like like a straight white

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Speaker 1: guy like I get, like Star Wars, Star Trek Dune.

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Speaker 1: If we're looking for a female lead fantasy world. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: there aren't any really, No, there's hunger grams. I'm being

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Speaker 1: PHYSI yes, there's obviously hunger games. But yeah, dude, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. People were like, Okay, explain this world to me.

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Speaker 1: What's so crazy about it? I don't know. There's little people,

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Speaker 1: and some animals can talk, but not all of them,

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Speaker 1: and the dictator in the world is a guy from

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Speaker 1: Chicago who came to a place where people can sometimes

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Speaker 1: do actual magic and there's talking animals. But still all

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Speaker 1: of the residents of this world were completely hoodwinked by him,

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Speaker 1: and he was able to amass power because he was

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Speaker 1: from Chicago and a dickhead. And that's it, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: and the magic isn't especially impressive, Like that's the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: right and wicked They make this enormous deal out of

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Speaker 1: magic and it's just like, okay, so you can fly,

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Speaker 1: that's cool. But Glinda has a bubble? What am I missing?

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Speaker 1: What is gripping about this? Hey, everybody, this is Jordan.

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Speaker 1: A few days after we tape this.

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Speaker 2: Now everyone knows that my dear friend Alex Heigel has

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Speaker 2: some thoughts about a lot of things sometimes these thoughts

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Speaker 2: can be less than positive. Yes, he can be a

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Speaker 2: tad dour, a little hard to impress. We read the

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Speaker 2: show reviews and it's been commented upon once or twice.

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Speaker 2: These moments happen so often I thought it was necessary

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Speaker 2: to come up with a little theme tune to signal

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Speaker 2: when Highgel's about to go full Highgel. It will serve

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Speaker 2: both as a warning and also remind everyone why we

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Speaker 2: love him so dearly.

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Speaker 1: Here take a listen.

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Speaker 3: He walks in with a frown on his face, rolls

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Speaker 3: his eyes like we're out of place. Every movie he's

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Speaker 3: just a waste of times. His TV he's a crime.

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Speaker 3: No show can climb. Every tune just greats. His ears,

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Speaker 3: our favorite.

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Speaker 4: Bring him close to tears.

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Speaker 3: He's the king of disdain in our little room, and

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Speaker 3: his judgment's like a cloud of doom. All Lexagle's got

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Speaker 3: no long spare for movies, music, TV. It's glad ab

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Speaker 3: his lance make the show so fun.

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Speaker 5: Our rum be co host is seconds and no, we've

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Speaker 5: got trivia.

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Speaker 1: He's got trends. Every question fills him with lead.

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Speaker 5: He can't stand the pop and the flash thinks ever

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Speaker 5: replies pure trash, but seep down. We know the scar

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Speaker 5: that's when we keep him on him full.

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Speaker 2: He's crows are gold.

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Speaker 5: Pure complain turns every episode into rest. Oh, Alexigle's got

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Speaker 5: no long spare for movies, music, TV.

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Speaker 1: He's gladby France.

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Speaker 5: Make the show so fun. Our crumb be co host

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Speaker 5: is second.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and now back to our regularly

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Speaker 2: scheduled program. Okay, I have some things to say about this,

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Speaker 2: and I hear what you say.

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Speaker 1: Go on. I was always.

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Speaker 2: Drawn to the Wizard of Oz to the degree that

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Speaker 2: I was because it's weird in a non fantastical, non mystical,

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Speaker 2: non mythical, non Celtic, non Tolkien, non scipia.

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Speaker 1: Since what I said, it's completely boring.

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Speaker 2: Well, all the fantasy stuff you like, I don't like.

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Speaker 1: But it's the white bread of fantasy.

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Speaker 2: No here, okay, hear me out to me, those worlds

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Speaker 2: of dragons and monsters, that's all cliche stuff to me.

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Speaker 2: The Wizard of Oz is weird in like a Lewis Carroll,

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Speaker 2: like allis in Wonderland sense.

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Speaker 1: How dare you bring Lewis Carroll's name into this.

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Speaker 2: It's like creepy whimsy and I like that. I like

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Speaker 2: how ordinary secular stuff becomes imbued with supernatural significance to

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Speaker 2: craft this weird fever dream of a surreal modern myth.

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Speaker 2: I always like that because I feel like it highlights

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Speaker 2: the absurd and the extraordinary in everyday life. You have

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Speaker 2: this random Edwardian and Victorian items and characters that suddenly

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Speaker 2: become strange and weird.

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Speaker 1: I like that.

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Speaker 2: To me, It's like a magrete painting or something. I'm

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Speaker 2: fascinated by that.

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Speaker 1: I will grant you that. But you know, look, I've

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Speaker 1: never read the books, and I don't This is a

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Speaker 1: knock against the movie either. I'm just saying I don't

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Speaker 1: understand the people who are like, no, this is my thing.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna write thirteen books about this.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't get that either. But I mean

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Speaker 2: I don't get that about anything.

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Speaker 1: Especially when you get into the like the Gregory maguire,

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Speaker 1: Like he's a good writer, like the sentence to sentence,

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Speaker 1: the writing's very good. But then it's like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know whatever linguistic template he picked up from Frank Elbaum.

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Speaker 1: But it's like they get to the school and it's

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Speaker 1: named shiz f. Do you want me to do with that? Dude?

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Speaker 1: Come on. At least at least Dune is like Lawrence

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Speaker 1: of Arabia and space cocaine, Like I can get that,

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Speaker 1: you know. And there's worms, and there's like fantastic creatures

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Speaker 1: and space travel and this one. They're like, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: horses are different colors. Isn't that up? My twisted imagination

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Speaker 1: conjured a blue horse? Like, okay, man, it's sick. It's

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Speaker 1: a different class of fantasy you took. You took the

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Speaker 1: infinite tradition of all that stuff that you casually discarded.

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Speaker 1: You're like Celtic fairy tales, you know, like ancient English

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Speaker 1: back like the Hero's Journey all that. And he's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. A horse is blue and this chick

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Speaker 1: travels around in a bubble and then the other one

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Speaker 1: can fly, you know what it is? To me, the

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Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz doesn't.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sure there's some historians or English professors listening

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Speaker 2: right now that can prove me wrong on this, But

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Speaker 2: to me, I feel like the Wizard of Oz doesn't

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Speaker 2: borrow as heavily from classical myth. I feel like it's

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Speaker 2: its own self created new thing, and that is fascinating

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Speaker 2: to me. Sure we're mythologizing Kansas, you know what I mean, Like,

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Speaker 2: there's something fun about that to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just trying to go back into like Frank

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Speaker 1: Elbaum's like brainstorming for this. Oh wait, we got we

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Speaker 1: got a whole we got a whole thing. You got

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Speaker 1: a whole thing on that. Okay, Anyway, those are my

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Speaker 1: thoughts on the Wizard of Oz. It's fine, and I've

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Speaker 1: seen it many so many times, and I like I

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Speaker 1: especially like you know, I like I see, I get

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Speaker 1: what you're saying, Like I hear that cell. You know,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't carry any weight with me because you already

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Speaker 1: had Lewis Carroll and you already had all this other stuff.

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Speaker 1: And you know when was this written nineteen Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: Lewis Carroll and C. S. Lewis were somewhat contemporary with this.

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Speaker 1: Well no, sorry. C. S. Lewis was two years old,

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Speaker 1: so he had not. But you know, I'm just saying,

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Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, I don't know. That's my only knock

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Speaker 1: against it is this, like as a fantasy world, I

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Speaker 1: don't understand why it has the legs that it does.

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Speaker 1: And I think the movie is such a huge part

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Speaker 1: of that, and it's such an intrinsic part of American

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Speaker 1: culture period, full stop. That's fine and good, you argue.

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Speaker 2: Is just by constant exposure as opposed to being a

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Speaker 2: good text.

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Speaker 1: Yes, as like a concept. This is sub Hunger Games

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Speaker 1: like sub I just any thing, man, this is sub

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Speaker 1: Logan's Run, Like come on.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this isn't an intellectual argument, but I mean,

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Speaker 2: to me, I like it because I find there to

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Speaker 2: be something very deeply haunting about this film. And I'm

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Speaker 2: not just talking about the ghost of Judy Garland's murdered childhood. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think this is something just wildly unsettling about this movie.

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Speaker 2: And I kind of like that. It's not like Haunted

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Speaker 2: Carnival vibes to me.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you know, and I like that.

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Speaker 2: I mean Wicked, which to the West is probably one

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Speaker 2: of the most terrifying figures in the Western collective unconscious.

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Speaker 2: I would argue maybe it connects with people more not

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Speaker 2: because of the whimsical stuff, but because it's so creepy

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Speaker 2: and unsettling and at points even terrifying. Maybe it's more

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Speaker 2: a kid to a horror movie than a fantasy movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's correct.

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Speaker 2: I think I also have a soft spot for this movie.

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Speaker 2: Because in high school I was in the musical version

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Speaker 2: of it and it was really fun.

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Speaker 1: It was a good time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was the I was the horse of a

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Speaker 2: different color driver.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: They had me to do this really weird Cockney accent

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Speaker 2: for it, which I don't think was in the movie.

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Speaker 1: Oh but you love that, like very Dick Van Dyke talk.

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Speaker 1: He probably does. It's the only line I remember.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my good friend Chris Fleming, a comedian of some

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Speaker 2: renown on the Internet, he was the scarecrow.

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Speaker 1: That is apt for him. Yeah, very much so. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean again, like Man the movies, I agree with

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Speaker 1: everything you're saying, and I kind of like that sinisterliness.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and if we're going like English major on it,

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Speaker 1: like there is a certain with the distance of the

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Speaker 1: entire twentieth century, there is a certain resonance to this

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Speaker 1: idea that like, oh, it's this magical, unspoiled world that

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Speaker 1: you can be transported to. But the guy who runs

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Speaker 1: it was transported here by a mistake, and he's just

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Speaker 1: a Chicago con artist, and he took over this whole

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Speaker 1: place and enslaved people and ruined it. So sure, man,

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Speaker 1: story for our time. I know, yeah, like, there you go,

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Speaker 1: but I don't believe that in my heart of hearts.

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Speaker 1: Flying monkeys ooh ooh, what a twisted one. We imagine

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Speaker 1: what I could think of next, Yes, maybe a crow

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Speaker 1: with man arms. Ooh yeah, that would be kind of funny.

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Speaker 2: But this was forty years before Star Wars, fifty years

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Speaker 2: before Dune, and.

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Speaker 1: Like one hundred and seventy thousand years after Beowolf or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Bearwolf still slaps like this, a guy rips off a

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Speaker 1: monster's arm. Whatever.

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Speaker 2: All right, he had all the horror movies, he had

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Speaker 2: all the universal horror movies that I guess preceded all this.

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Speaker 1: But no, the movie. Sure, but I mean, like again,

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Speaker 1: I just don't see the appeal in ODZ as like

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Speaker 1: a place.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, you're the only one of the two of

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Speaker 2: us who went to see Wicked in the theaters.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I will. I'm proud of at that. Songs go.

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Arrivo is a treasure Arianna. She's also good actually,

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Speaker 1: I mean the first time I saw her on SNL,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, she actually has like comic chops

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Speaker 1: and she's very funny in this movie. And obviously she

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Speaker 1: can sing her ass off. So yeah, and you know, grinted,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I've never read the book or the thirteen others,

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Speaker 1: so maybe I'm missing a lot more nuance.

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Speaker 2: All right, So with all that in mind, I think

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Speaker 2: it's time to dive in. This may be very well

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Speaker 2: be our longest episode yet.

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Speaker 1: Or we may divide it up into two.

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Speaker 2: We haven't figured that out yet, but let's get to it.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen.

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Speaker 2: Here is everything, and I do mean everything you didn't

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Speaker 2: know about the Wizard of Oz.

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Speaker 1: I call this section He's the Bomb. Well that's good.

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Speaker 1: That was pretty good. It was good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, The Wizard of Oz a cinematic reputation is so

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Speaker 2: huge that a lot of people forget that was actually

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Speaker 2: based on the best selling book The Wonderful Wizard of Oz,

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Speaker 2: which was published in nineteen hundred by L. Frank Baum.

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Speaker 1: Bomb came from a.

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Speaker 2: Rich family and was decidedly something of an indoor kid.

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Speaker 1: His parents tried.

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Speaker 2: To cure him of this by sending him the military

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Speaker 2: school at age twelve, or he suffered a heart attack

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Speaker 2: that the school officials believed to be psychos somatic. I'm

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Speaker 2: guessing this whole episode was what we currently understand to

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Speaker 2: be a panic attack.

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Speaker 1: But that's my non medical opinion. But I was led

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Speaker 1: to believe that they were so much tougher back then.

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Speaker 2: No, this guy has a very interesting origin story. He

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Speaker 2: was sent back home, and I want to read this

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Speaker 2: next line directly from his Wikipedia page. At twenty Bomb

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Speaker 2: took on the national craze of breeding poultry. So twenty

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Speaker 2: years before hitting it big with the Wizard of Oz,

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Speaker 2: L frank Baum made a living breeding quote a fancy

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Speaker 2: breed of chicken known as the Hamburg. This chicken breed

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Speaker 2: actually was the topic of the first entry in El

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Speaker 2: frank bombs storied literary canon.

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Speaker 1: His book was called the Book of.

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Speaker 2: The Hamburgs, a brief treatise upon the mating, rearing, and

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Speaker 2: management of the different varieties of Hamburgs.

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Speaker 1: And this is the guy who's crafted this indelible magical

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Speaker 1: world a chicken.

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00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 2: And then he got the theater bug after this, the

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Speaker 2: natural corollary to poultry breeding.

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Speaker 1: I suppose it.

390
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 2: Started when he dressed up as Santa at family gatherings,

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Speaker 2: which at this point I'm just picturing tobias.

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Speaker 1: From arrested development. Unfortunately, poor L.

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Speaker 2: Frank Baum, he was something of an easy mark and

394
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Speaker 2: he was frequently exploited by various theater troops and agents.

395
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Speaker 1: The that isn't new and I'm going to make this

396
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Speaker 1: a personal reference for Frank. That is a new low

397
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Speaker 1: on the pecking order. If you're being bullied by theater kids. Now,

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Speaker 1: they can be mean and caddy and I do know that,

399
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Speaker 1: but like, come all on one.

400
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Speaker 2: Theater company convinced them to pay for all a bunch

401
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Speaker 2: of new costumes under the pretense that he'd be given

402
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 2: leading roles, and then this just never happens.

403
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 1: Let mean, get against Tobias. So this kicked from pillar

404
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,679
Speaker 1: to post by everyone from the chicken breeding community to

405
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Speaker 1: the theater troops of the early nineteen hundreds. My god,

406
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Speaker 1: they had.

407
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,399
Speaker 2: Such high hopes were setting in the military school that

408
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 2: didn't work out, and then he just fell even further

409
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 2: after this, after getting bullied by the theater community, his

410
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 2: father stepped in and built him a theater in the

411
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 2: appropriately named Richburg, New York, where Bomb began writing his

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00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 2: own plays. After a time, he and his new wife

413
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 2: moved to South Dakota, which I think then was known

414
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 2: as Dakota Territory, and Bomb's description of Kansas and the

415
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 2: Wonderful Wizard of Oz is believed to be based on

416
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Speaker 2: its experiences in the drought ridden South Dakota. It was

417
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Speaker 2: there that he opened a store called Bomb's Bizarre and,

418
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Speaker 2: in another direct quote from work, that I just find wonderful.

419
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Speaker 2: His habit of giving out whares on credit led to

420
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Speaker 2: the eventual bankrupting of the store.

421
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Speaker 1: From there.

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00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 2: After that venture went under, he made a living editing

423
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 2: local paper, which also failed, and then he left to

424
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Speaker 2: Chicago and founded a magazine called The Show Window, which

425
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Speaker 2: covered the wide world of window displays.

426
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Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait.

427
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Speaker 2: He started a magazine about window displays.

428
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Speaker 1: Yes, I can't even my point. My job here is useless.

429
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: Just punch me in giggling because like, I can't even

430
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 1: mock this guy anyway I did.

431
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Speaker 2: I'm picturing David Crosses Tobias as this entire guy.

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Speaker 1: Man, Oh my god, the wide world of windows, The

433
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: Show Windows, Show Windows, which is the Beatles manager Brian Epstein.

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Speaker 2: He got kicked out of drama school and then he

435
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 2: started arranging shop windows in his father's store. So the

436
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,400
Speaker 2: failed drama student to store window pipeline, and I guess

437
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 2: was a very real thing. One of his early editorials

438
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 2: in this magazine stressed the importance of mannequins for drawing

439
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 2: in customers. Shockingly, this whole window display magazine thing was

440
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: actually a successful venture. The magazine is still in existence,

441
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: though it's now known as VMSD. You can google that

442
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 2: acronym yourself. This all leads us to the book. Balm

443
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 2: had written a collection of mother Goose rhymes in prose

444
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 2: called mother Goose in Prose before hitting on his big idea, A.

445
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: Wonderful Wizard of Oz.

446
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 2: But before we go any further, we have to sort

447
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 2: one thing out. Where did the name Oz come from?

448
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 2: Heigeld You know, don't re.

449
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: Yourhead, Australia.

450
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 2: That's actually a good guess, because that's probably was like

451
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 2: the most exotic place for most Americans at the turn

452
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 2: of the century. But no, not true. It was actually Again,

453
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 2: this is what I like about him. He takes the

454
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 2: mundane and ordinary and weaves a whole fantasy around it.

455
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 2: It actually came from his filing cabinet. According to the

456
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 2: extensive war around the creation of this book and movie,

457
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: The Wizard of Oz the official seventy fifth anniversary campaign

458
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 2: and claims that Bomb got the name from his filing cabinets,

459
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: one of which was labeled A through N and the

460
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 2: other was labeled O through z oz. Anything inspired, I

461
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,360
Speaker 2: see it's to me, it's like it's taking something so ordinary,

462
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 2: mundane and making something whimsical out of it.

463
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 1: Doug, that's literally the p tier Griffin joke from like

464
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: the first season of Family Guy, when he needs to

465
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: give a fake name and he looks and sees a

466
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: p on the table, a woman crying, and the actual

467
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 1: historical cryptid the Griffin like serious, he was just like, ah,

468
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 1: what do I need to call this? Well, Tolkien will

469
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: be constructing entire elaborate languages in a couple of decades.

470
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: You know, the Doune will have some cool Arabic words

471
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 1: filing cabinet. That'll do it. Failure, failed, son God, the

472
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 1: rich gets so oh many chances in this stupid country.

473
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 2: Well, we already talked about how Bomb drew inspiration from

474
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 2: the drought.

475
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: Rabemophiliac too. No, I can't make that joke. They're disabled.

476
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 1: I was gonna say something about being like an inbred

477
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: wan little like Royal's son running was his nose always running.

478
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: I'm imagining that too.

479
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 2: I'm picturing him as blue Boy I.

480
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: Was getting like a little the snitch in recess.

481
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I just was referencing that.

482
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, Randall, Yeah, that's my image of Francobom.

483
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 2: Let's see, let's see what I actually don't know what

484
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:35,959
Speaker 2: he looks like.

485
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: Oh, he's actually he's a handsome guy. He's a stately gentleman. Okay.

486
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 2: Well, actually, when he was a little younger, he kind

487
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 2: of looks like David Cross, kind of dead on.

488
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: He looks like if David Cross became a magician. Uh yeah,

489
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: yeah he does. Wow, you had a heart attack because

490
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 1: of school.

491
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: I mean I kind of did too. I would hide

492
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 2: in the bathroom and sent my friend in after me.

493
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: Okay, you were bullied by theater kids. I wasn't bullied

494
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: by theater kids. Now I'm looking at that picture and

495
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 1: just saying that to that guy I did the bullying.

496
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: Oh good, that was a drama president. I bullied no one.

497
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: Oh boy. Well, okay.

498
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 2: As we touched on earlier, Bam drew inspiration from the

499
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 2: drought ravaged plains of South Dakota for the setting of

500
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 2: Dorothy's Kansas home, but the story behind the heroine Dorothy

501
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 2: Gail is unfortunately a very sad one. The character was

502
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 2: named as a tribute to BAM's late niece, Dorothy Gage,

503
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: who died when she was just five months old of

504
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: the incredibly named nineteenth century ailment known as congestion of

505
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 2: the brain, which is maybe what happened to me. Bamb's

506
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 2: wife was deeply distraught since she looked upon her niece

507
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 2: as the daughter they never had, and at cheers wife up,

508
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 2: I guess Bomb decided to memory their niece in the

509
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 2: book he was writing, and he ended up dedicating The

510
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 2: Wonderful Wizard of Oz to his wife. The baby's gravestone

511
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 2: now has a statue of the character Dorothy placed next

512
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 2: to it. The inspiration for the scarecrow was kind of

513
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 2: equally traumatic.

514
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: As a child, Oh you'll love this.

515
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 2: Balm apparently had a recurring nightmare featuring a scarecrow who

516
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 2: aggressively pursued him across a field. Moments before the scarecrows quote,

517
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: Ragged hay Fingers tweeted us. At Ragged hay Fingers gripped

518
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 2: his neck, it would fall apart before his eyes, and

519
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: then presumably he would wake up. For reasons that I

520
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 2: assume a therapist would have a lot of fun with

521
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 2: bamb decided to integrate his childhood nightmare into his fantasy novel.

522
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 2: According to Baum's son Harry, the tin Man, known in

523
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 2: the book as the Tin Woodsman, which is a thing

524
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: that does not exist, was inspired by Bomb's aforementioned passion

525
00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 2: for window displays. For one such storefront display that he designed,

526
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 2: he crafted a crude figure out of metal pieces. The

527
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 2: body was a boiler, the arms and legs were stovepipes,

528
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 2: A saucepan was the face, and a funnel served as

529
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 2: the hat, just like the one we know in Love

530
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 2: in the film. The yellow brick road that led to

531
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 2: Oz was apparently something he remembered from his brief stint

532
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 2: at the Peakskill Military Academy prior to his heart attack

533
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: slash panic attack. The Emerald City, also known as Oz,

534
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 2: is believed to be an amalgamation of several locations, first

535
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,959
Speaker 2: and foremost the famous White City Steady that was constructed

536
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: for the eighteen ninety three World Spare in Chicago, which

537
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 2: is completed soon after the Bombs moved to the city.

538
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 2: Some say that the Emerald City itself, a big crazy

539
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 2: art Decawee buildings, was inspired by a castle like structure

540
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: and the upscale community of Castle Park in Holland, Michigan,

541
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: where Balm lived during the summer, and other legends suggests

542
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: that the inspiration came from the Hotel del Coronado near

543
00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: San Diego, California, which still exists. For not the last

544
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 2: time this episode, you're milad.

545
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: You might vary. Oh, here's a little uh, here's a

546
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: little Peak Skill trivia for you. Oh yeah, God, it

547
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: was eighteen sixty eight, so he was definitely a racist. Yeah, okay.

548
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: There was a road in peak Skill named West Street

549
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: that led from the waterfront uphill to the school made

550
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: of stone blocks that have a lemonee hue, and the

551
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: theory goes that young Bomb arrived by a steamboat as

552
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: some of the way to the academy and received the

553
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: catchy reply follow the yellow brick road. Oh but former

554
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: Peakskill Mayor John Testa wrote in twenty fourteen to Roadside America,

555
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: Frank Baum spent about eighteen months at Peak Skill Military

556
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: Academy when he was twelve to thirteen years old. That

557
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: is the history. There was never any conversation for him

558
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: to follow the yellow brick road to Peakskill Military Academy.

559
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: The railroad was in place by the time he came,

560
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: so there was no road to the dock. He probably

561
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: arrived by train anyway, So there are actual yellowee brick

562
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: roads in Peak Skill. But I don't think anyone would

563
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: have said that phrase to him, at least that what

564
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: the mayor thinks.

565
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: Isn't Peak Skill where a friend of the pod and

566
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 2: the man who wrote and performed our theme song lives

567
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 2: south Appabam.

568
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, not to dox him, but yeah, Peak Skills lovely.

569
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 3: Well.

570
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 2: It was in nineteen hundred, at the age of forty four,

571
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: that L. Frank Baum finally achieved his first success, finally

572
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: did something right.

573
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: The book was published in nineteen hundred, and it was

574
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: the best selling children's book for two straight years. Its

575
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: initial print run was ten thousand copies, but by the

576
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: time it became public domain in nineteen fifty six, it

577
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: had sold more than three million. And folks, don't ever

578
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: let him tell you that cash grab sequels are a

579
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: modern phenomenon. Even though Baum was kind of done with

580
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: the whole idea, he was persuaded by Filthy Lucra to

581
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: crank out eleven more novels based in and around the

582
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: land of Oz and a further too, that were published posthumously,

583
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: and then three other short story compilations and comics. There's

584
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: an OS extended universe. There is it really is Yea,

585
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: quoting directly from Baum's hilarious Wikipedia page. Several times during

586
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: the development of the Oz series, Baum declared that he

587
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: had written his last OZ books and devoted himself to

588
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: other works of fantasy fiction based in other magical lands,

589
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: including the Life and Adventures of Santa Claus and Queen

590
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: ZIXI of Ix. However, he returned to the series each time,

591
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: persuaded by popular demand, letters from children, and the failures

592
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: of his new books. But books were just the start.

593
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: The money from Oz allowed Baum to revisit his early love,

594
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: the Theta. He adapted the Oz story into a stage play,

595
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: which opened on June sixteenth, nineteen o two, at Chicago's

596
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: Grand Opera House. A year later, a New York production

597
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: became one of the most popular Broadway shows of its time.

598
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: And then the movie versions began rolling in. And actually,

599
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: this is good Bart trivia. Someone says, when was The

600
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz first made into a film? It is

601
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: nineteen ten as a silent fifteen minute silent version, and

602
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: is so old no one knows who is actually in it.

603
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: I love that. That's so cool. Some guy and maybe

604
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: a lady or two, probably a like a real lion

605
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: back at that point, right, I think there were real

606
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: animals in it. I think yeah. So In this version,

607
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: Dorothy is friends with a cow named Imagen and is

608
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: chased by mule named Hank, and Toto is transformed into

609
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: a giant beast to protect Dorothy riveting. She also decides

610
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: that the whold no Place Like Home bit is for

611
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: Rubes and decides to stay in Oz. There were three

612
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: more short silent spinoff films throughout the nineteen tens, made

613
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: by Bomb's own production company. Bomb died in nineteen nineteen,

614
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: not a minute too soon, but the remix continued. His

615
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: weak little heart would not have taken the Roaring twenties.

616
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: It was right there in the name. He was not

617
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: built for that. There's a live action version made in

618
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty five starring a young Oliver Hardy of Oral

619
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: and Hardy fame. There was an animated short film from

620
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty three, and so by the time MGM got

621
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: around to the nineteen thirty nine version, that was the

622
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: tenth cinematic adaptation of Oz. This just goes to show

623
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: that I don't know what I'm talking about. Man popular stuff.

624
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: It's popular stuff. How about that.

625
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: We're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right

626
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 2: back with more too much information in just a moment.

627
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: Wow Wow.

628
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: In nineteen thirty nine, it's fair to say that MGM Studios.

629
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: Was at a crossroads. Producer Louis B.

630
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 2: Mayer a real true monster of the twentieth century. I

631
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 2: wanted to create a dazzling children's movie that would compete

632
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 2: with Walt Disney's first full length Snow White and the

633
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: Seven Dwarves, which had been released the year earlier. So

634
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: we decided to shell out for the Big Guy, The

635
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: Wizard of Oz, the Harry Potter of its day. Apparently

636
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: Disney had been trying to make it before MGM snatched

637
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 2: up the rights. Movie mogul Samuel Goldman had bought them

638
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty three before selling them to MGM in

639
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty eight. I read that Bam received seventy five

640
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: thousand dollars for the film rights, but considering he died

641
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: in nineteen nineteen, I'm assuming that went to his estate

642
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 2: that seventy five thousand dollars is worth roughly two million

643
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: dollars today, but it was a steal considering all that

644
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,919
Speaker 2: was to come. The final movie pays tribute to Balm

645
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 2: and kind of a macabre way. When the Muschkin coroner

646
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 2: pronounces the wicked Witch of the East, the one who

647
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 2: had the house dropped on her, really most sincerely dead,

648
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: he holds out a death certificate dated May sixth, nineteen

649
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: thirty eight, the nineteenth anniversary of Baum's death.

650
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: That's the tribute. They just put his death date in

651
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: the movie, and it has is not a significant anniversary.

652
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 2: Yoh, all right, Yeah, Jim really went big on the movie,

653
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 2: shelling out three million dollars or roughly fifty five million

654
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 2: dollars today, in their bid to match the commercial success

655
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 2: of Snow White. The final script features three credited screenwriters,

656
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: plus a jaw dropping seventeen uncredited writers, including the poet

657
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 2: Ogden Nash, who wrote an early draft. Oh, it's unlikely

658
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 2: that any of his work was used. Another contributor I

659
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: didn't realize this was Herman J. Meikowitz, who later wrote

660
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: the screenplay for Citizen Kane and is the subject of

661
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 2: the David Fincher biopic mank all In almost really sets

662
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 2: the tone for the cavalcade of directors who cycled through

663
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: during this thing, which we'll talk about a little later.

664
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 2: Tank of the film, the studio needed a Dorothy, and

665
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 2: it's a well worn bit of movie trivia that Shirley

666
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 2: Temple was actually the first choice for the lead. It

667
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 2: makes sense considering she was in the midst of her

668
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 2: golden run of Kloying children's classics and was therefore a

669
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 2: much bigger star than Judy Garland at the time. Plus

670
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 2: she was closer to the characters, which was roughly around twelve. However,

671
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 2: it's something of a myth that Shirley Temple was the

672
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 2: first choice OZ producers Arthur Freed and Mervin Leroy.

673
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 1: That's a great name.

674
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 2: Irvin Leroy always wanted Judy Garland because they felt they

675
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,919
Speaker 2: needed an actress with vocal chops. But MGM studio chief

676
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 2: Louis B. Mayer had his heart set on Temple. Not

677
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 2: like that, or maybe like that.

678
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. He's dead. He can't sue me.

679
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 2: When Uncle Louie won something, he usually gets it, but

680
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 2: not this time. Unfortunately, Shirley Temple was under contract to

681
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 2: twentieth century Fox, who was not about to loan her

682
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 2: out to a competitor, at least without getting a little

683
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 2: something in return. Not like that, or maybe like that,

684
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 2: like that, maybe like that, maybe like that. Yeah, twenty

685
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 2: century Fox planned out doing a little trade with MGM,

686
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: swapping out Shirley Temple for two of their huge stars,

687
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: Clark Gable and Jene Harlow, which just gives you an

688
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 2: indication of how big Shirley Temple was at the time.

689
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 2: She was worth Clark Gable and Jean Harlow combined.

690
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: That's wild.

691
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 2: But the deal fell apart when Jean Harlow unexpectedly died

692
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 2: of liver failure at the age of twenty six.

693
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: Recent report suggests that the toxicity of.

694
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 2: Her blonde hair dye may have been partly to blame

695
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 2: for her premature death.

696
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: Did you know that? I sure didn't showbiz. What were

697
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: they using?

698
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 2: That's a great question. Let's let's look that up right now.

699
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's an episode of You Must Remember This

700
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: that deals with it.

701
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: They just cracked open into old timey thermometers. Throw this

702
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: mercury under hair.

703
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,720
Speaker 2: Her platinum blonde color was reportedly achieved with a weekly

704
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 2: application of ammonia, clorox bleach, and lux soap flakes.

705
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, so ammonium comma, chlorox bleach, ammonia commachlorox bleach. Yeah,

706
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: so that's a chemical weapon. Have you never cleaned a toilet,

707
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: like an old toilet by dumping chlorox in it?

708
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: Not specifically chlorox, Now you'd.

709
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: Remember because if you've ever dumped chlorox into like old

710
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: stale pe, it creates ammonium chloride, which is a toxic gas.

711
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: And if you do it in like a mobile home

712
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: or something with like a septic tank, you will immediately

713
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: get an enormous blast of a toxic chemical in your face.

714
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: And people like do this in their mobile home bathrooms

715
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: and like collapse and fall in there. So, yes, she

716
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: actually was pouring toxic cats on her head once a week.

717
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I don't know if that actually is

718
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 2: what killed it, because urine breaks down into ammonia.

719
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: Eurine breaks down into ammonia. Oh yeah, so you're dumping

720
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: bleach in there. Maybe people were just pissing on her

721
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: head left and right.

722
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 2: She was severely bloated, and she smelled like urine on

723
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 2: her breath, both signs of kidney failure. So yeah, maybe

724
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 2: that's horrifying. Wow on the leaven it we just traveled down.

725
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: Showbiz movie magic. Oh my god.

726
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 2: It's Ultimately, Shirley Temple missed out on the part of Dorothy,

727
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 2: but she was cast as the lead in a truly

728
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 2: bizarre Wizard of Oz ripoff movie nineteen forty is The Bluebird.

729
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 2: Temple plays against type as a truly nasty little girl

730
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 2: living in Germany during the Napoleonic Wars, and the whole

731
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 2: movie is this elaborate dream sequence where she sent to

732
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 2: discover quote, the Bluebird of happiness. A series of bizarre

733
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: adventures ensue, including a visit to their dead grandparents in

734
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: the past, a terrifying forest fire, and a my personal favorite,

735
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 2: a visit to a land of yet to be born children.

736
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 2: It's it's weird, it's really bizarre. Interestingly, it co stars

737
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 2: Gail Sodonguard, who is up for consideration to play an

738
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 2: early sultry version that's in quotes of the Wicked Witch

739
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 2: of the West in The Wizard of Oz, which we'll

740
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 2: talk about later.

741
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: They decided to go a different direction. Anyway.

742
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 2: After Shirley Temple was passed over, MGM approached Diana Durbin,

743
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 2: who was unavailable, so they went with Durbin's former co

744
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 2: star and semi rival slash frenemy, Judy Garland.

745
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: We got to talk about Judy Garland. Yeah, we have to.

746
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: I mean, if only because of my fixation on the

747
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: Holiday special. Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I maintain

748
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 1: that's like half of David Lynch's formative media experience. Oh wow, yeah,

749
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: Judy Garland born Francis Ethel Gum. It sounds like a

750
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: serial killer, no, because Jamee Gumm is from Silence of

751
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: the Layoffs.

752
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:36,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

753
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: Oh nice. Her parents, Ethel and Frank, were two vaudevillians

754
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: who owned the theater in their hometown of Grand Rapids, Minnesota. Naturally,

755
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,240
Speaker 1: show business was a pillar of young Francis Ethel Gum's life.

756
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: She was two years old when she and her older

757
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 1: sisters sang jingle bells during a christmin pageant. Trio formed

758
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: a singing troupe called the Gum Sisters, who toured the

759
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: country over the next few years. That's like Buddy Rich,

760
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: you know, like Buddy Rich was playing drums in like

761
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: vaudeville and tents by the time he was like three

762
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: or four. No, but it made so much sense. Prodigy. Yeah,

763
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: whoa traps the drum Wonder or something like they called him.

764
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 1: This has been your Buddy Rich thirty seconds of the

765
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: show Clams and Clams All Night. Go check out the

766
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: tape of Buddy Rich yelled his band folks, it's a

767
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: real real hum dinger.

768
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, just to keep the Buddy Rich segment going

769
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 2: a little longer. Buddy Rich was known for his just

770
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: florid displays of obscenities and just screaming at his band,

771
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 2: and then one day somebody in his band secretly taped

772
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 2: one of these explosive outbursts and then leaked it to someone,

773
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 2: and it just got copied and circulated in the underground,

774
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 2: first through the musicians and then with a lot of

775
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 2: the comics that they would share bills with, and then

776
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 2: it became this legendary thing in median circles in like

777
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 2: the I don't know seventies and eighties. Jerry Seinfeld and

778
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 2: Larry David were huge fans of them, and there are

779
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 2: a lot of quotes from Seinfeld taken from these tapes,

780
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 2: things like that guy is not my kind of guy,

781
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 2: and let's see how you do up there without all

782
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: the assistants, and I think I will step outside and

783
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 2: show you what it's like from George. I believe it

784
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 2: is also from that too. I think those are the

785
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 2: big three.

786
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: That's an amazing deep cut. You think is gonna work

787
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: on that clam over this joint? What you think you're

788
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: playing from me?

789
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 3: I'm a band fan. I'm up there, work on my balls.

790
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 1: Well, I'm trying to do somebody your favorite, your mother.

791
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 4: Joint.

792
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: You gotta be kidding me. I dare you call yourselves professional?

793
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: Play like children up there? I hear what plan from anybody?

794
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: You had it?

795
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 4: One clam and.

796
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: Night try me off, not gonna do and you're probably

797
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: not play this for me.

798
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 3: I gotta be as I've been the musicians in the world.

799
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 3: Dame play like.

800
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: Dame.

801
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 4: Trying to play like that for me?

802
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 5: You try one the next set and when you get

803
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 5: back to the off, you'll mean another up pad on it.

804
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: Anyway. Budville christ Yes Ethel Gum the Elder was the

805
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 1: pro two typical stage mom mamager. She took her daughters

806
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: to auditions and dance lessons. She traveled with them on

807
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: the road. Ethel was quite happy to be on the

808
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: road because her home life was not particularly stable, and

809
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,919
Speaker 1: uh this may have had some resonance on the soon

810
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: to become Judy's life because Ethel started something of a

811
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:04,760
Speaker 1: multi gen nirational trend among the Garland women for marrying

812
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 1: men who probably weren't super straight all the way. Judy

813
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 1: did this when she married one of her directors, Vincente Minelli,

814
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 1: and then again in the sixties with her fourth husband,

815
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 1: Mark Herron. Heron ended up having an affair with Judy's daughter,

816
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 1: Liza Minnelli's new husband, Peter Allen, which she discovered on

817
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: the night of their wedding in nineteen sixty seven. So,

818
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: just a quick rephrasing, Liza caught her stepdad in bed

819
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: with her new husband on her wedding night. Garland and

820
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: Heron divorced seventeen months after the incidents. Liza and Peter

821
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: Allen held on until nineteen seventy four. And so this

822
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: all goes back to Judy's dad, Frank Gumm. Yeah, well

823
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: he was a gum and something oh too easy was

824
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: rumored that while his wife and daughters were away, Frank

825
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: Gumm made the moves on the young boys working at

826
00:44:54,840 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: his theater. After one of these encounters went south. Oh, well,

827
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 1: you capitalized south, by which i'm they traveled to the

828
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: distinct part of the country known as the American South.

829
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 1: They didn't. There wasn't a little downstairs business. Maybe probably God.

830
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: After one of these encounters went lowercase south, the family

831
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: relocated to Lancaster, California, or Lancaster, California in Pennsylvania, to Lancaster, Massachusetts. Lancaster,

832
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: you guys don't count. Despite this, Judy remained extremely close

833
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: to her father, probably because he was the only parent

834
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: she had who didn't treat her like an employee. So

835
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: when Frank Gumm died in nineteen thirty five, when Judy

836
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: was just twelve, the loss exacerbated a psychological wound that

837
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 1: would continue to fester throughout her life, leaving her looking

838
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 1: for a homosexual father figure in directors and romantic partners.

839
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: Judy would later say, the terrible thing about it was

840
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 1: that I couldn't cry at my father's funeral. A terrible thing.

841
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,720
Speaker 2: And now now I'm doing some combination of Katherine Heath,

842
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: a little bit of.

843
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: Paul Yeah, some pig humbo. Never mind. The terrible thing.

844
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 2: About it, You reading this line through laughter is going

845
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 2: to be great.

846
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: I just like to give Judy Garling getting up at

847
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: her dad's at the age of twelve, just going humble up,

848
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: some pig pig, Oh God, got that. The terrible thing

849
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: about it was that I couldn't cry at my father's funeral.

850
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 1: I'd never been to a funeral. I was so ashamed

851
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: I couldn't cry, so I feigned it, but I just

852
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: couldn't cry for eight days. Then I locked myself in

853
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: a bathroom and cried for fourteen hours. My mother left

854
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: Judy little time to grieve and began driving her even

855
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: harder to perform. Judy spent much of her tween years

856
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,919
Speaker 1: singing in venues that were deemed as biographers as inappropriate

857
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: for young children, which is a colorful phrase. Ethel Gum was,

858
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: by all accounts, a hard task master. Judy painted a

859
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: vivid portrait of her mother during a nineteen sixty seven

860
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: interview with Barbara wall As. She would sort of stand

861
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: in the wings when I was a little girl, and

862
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: if I didn't feel good, or if I was sick

863
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: to my tummy, she'd say, you get out and sing,

864
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: or I'll wrap you around the bedpost and break you

865
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: off short. So I'd go out and sing. It is

866
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: worth noting that Judy was fond of exaggerating the truth,

867
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 1: especially in later life when she was more or less

868
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: composed of gin and uppers. She also told all of

869
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: these you know, there's a lot of tales about the

870
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: Munchkins on the set of The Wizard of Oz, but

871
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: you know those were maybe also probably exaggerated, definitely exaggerated,

872
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 1: and probably her fault anyway. On the flip side, though,

873
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: On the flip side, ethel Gum, real piece of work.

874
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: It was a real bitch, a piece of fat eppele Gum.

875
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: That name is son Funny. Numerous biographers, including Time magazine

876
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: journalist Jered Clark, who wrote what Jordan considers to be

877
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 1: the definitive Judy bio, Get Happy. It's really good. I'm

878
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:00,839
Speaker 1: really sad.

879
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 2: I lent it out and never got it back, so

880
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 2: I could not consult it for this episode, but it's

881
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 2: an excellent book.

882
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: So Clark claims that Judy's mother was the one who

883
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 1: first got her on hooked on pills as a ten

884
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: year old on the club circuit. This kicked off the

885
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 1: nightmare cycles of uppers and downers that would play Judy

886
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: for the rest of her life and would ultimately kill

887
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: her in nineteen sixty nine Nice Nay Suck. In later life,

888
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: Garland remembered her mother as the real wicked witch of

889
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: the West. So there are numerous contradictory stories of how

890
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: young Francis Gumm acquired her famous moniker when version states

891
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: that Garland was borrowed from Carol Lombard's character in the

892
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 1: film Twentieth Century, and other theories that it was honor

893
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: of or to curry favor with noted drama critic Robert Garland. However,

894
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: Garland's daughter, the equally nominally gifted Wan Left, believes that

895
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: she chose the name. When actor George Jessel declared that

896
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 1: the Gum sisters quote looked prettier than a garland of flowers.

897
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 2: That's a nice compliment, I just want to especially coming

898
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 2: from a man in the early twentieth century, it could

899
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 2: have gone south.

900
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 1: In a really bad way. That's a nice compliment, sure

901
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: is for those gums. Steady story behind Judy is a

902
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: little bit simpler, and it was just inspired by a

903
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 1: popular Hoogey Carmichael song of the era, which was I

904
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: assume it was called Judy.

905
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 2: I actually sweet.

906
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: Judy Blue eyes. Now. We don't know the name of

907
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: the song though. It is just called Judy. Okay, it's

908
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: just called Judy. I'm just sading hearing. I'm getting my

909
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 1: ear right now. It's just called Judy. Yeah. The newly

910
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 1: christened Judy Garland ultimately signed with MGM in nineteen thirty

911
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: five in a class that included Elizabeth Taylor, Lana Turner,

912
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: and Ava Gardner, and Judy somewhat understandably felt like the

913
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 1: ugly duckling in their midst feeling exacerbated by the ever

914
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 1: charming studio head Louis B. Mayer, who referred to her

915
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: as my little hunchback, which was supposedly due to the

916
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: fact that she was four feet eleven and had a

917
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,959
Speaker 1: curvature of the spine. Still not quite fair, and Judy

918
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: would later admit from the time I was thirteen, there

919
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: was a constant struggle between MGM and me whether or

920
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 1: not to eat, how much to eat, what to eat.

921
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,800
Speaker 1: I remember this more vividly than anything else about my childhood.

922
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and she was still so mean to herself.

923
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: Later on in life, she would say of that period,

924
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: I was frightful. I was fat, a fat little pig

925
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: in pigtails. God, that poor woman just really never had

926
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 1: a chance, did she.

927
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 4: No.

928
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 2: I remember when we were doing the Christmas Songs episode

929
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 2: telling the story when young Brenda Lee who just had

930
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,240
Speaker 2: a hit with rocking around the Christmas Tree at age.

931
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 2: I forget how old she was, but she was a teenager.

932
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 2: She grew up worshiping Judy Garland and when she was

933
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 2: playing Vegas, she ran into Judy at some hotels she

934
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 2: was staying at and mustoo up her courage and went

935
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 2: over to Judy and said, you know, hi, Judy, I'm

936
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 2: a young singer like you.

937
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 1: Do you have any advice for me?

938
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 2: And Judy looked her in the eye and said, don't

939
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 2: let them take your child childhood.

940
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: Said it was just like Bud Chilling. Yeah.

941
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 2: One of Judy's first feature film roles was alongside fellow

942
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 2: MGM classmate Mickey Rooney, Friend of the Pod Mickey Rooney.

943
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 1: Folks, Mickey Rooney's no friend of mine, No yet, No,

944
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 1: he's not.

945
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,439
Speaker 2: As we will touch on, the film is called Love

946
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 2: finds Andy Hardy, and this movie was spun off into

947
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 2: a highly successful franchise that made them both stars. Ask

948
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 2: your grandparents about it if they're still around or say

949
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 2: at this point, no, no, this is a great Grandparents territory.

950
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: Now.

951
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: It was a pretty big franchise, although unfortunately it exacerbated

952
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 2: Judy's fundamental insecurity because her role in the Andy Hardy

953
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 2: movies was basically that of the girl next door with

954
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 2: an unrequited crush on the titular Andy. And that's more

955
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,240
Speaker 2: or less what happened in real life, and Micky Rooney

956
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 2: broke her heart repeatedly.

957
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 1: He even admitted.

958
00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 6: In a great quote for The Ages, I began to

959
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 6: meet my obligations to a good many of the gals

960
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 6: in town who were dying to meet me, who wouldn't

961
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 6: want to go out with me.

962
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: I had my own car, I had some nickels in

963
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 1: my pocket, and I was somebody. He was four foot eight.

964
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, folks, to yourself a favor right now and google

965
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 2: Mickey Rooney and he's also do you know he was

966
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 2: married like literally eight times, which caused him to lose

967
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,280
Speaker 2: all his money on multiple occasions.

968
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I he looks like a bunch guy. Yeah, well,

969
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 1: we can't say it looks like he looks like Lon

970
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: Cheney as Phantom of the Opera. He has that like

971
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: foot pushedbag note. Wow. Wow, Yeah, he's not a good

972
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: looking guy. No, I'm sorry, no, no, no, no.

973
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:47,919
Speaker 2: My favorite fact about him is that he separated from

974
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 2: his wife of thirty four years in twenty twelve when

975
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 2: he was ninety two. He just you couldn't hack it

976
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,800
Speaker 2: for those last few years before you went to the grave.

977
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: Just no. Yeah, life, short journey. Yeah.

978
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 2: Well, Judy Garland's adult approved drug intake increased as she

979
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 2: entered the studio system. She later told biographer Paul Donnelly.

980
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 2: They had us working days and nights on end. They'd

981
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:14,959
Speaker 2: give us pills to keep us on our feet long

982
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 2: after we were exhausted. Then they'd take us to the

983
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 2: studio hospital and knock us out with sleeping pills. Mickey

984
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 2: sprawled out on one bed and me on another. Then

985
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 2: after four hours they'd wake us up and give us

986
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,800
Speaker 2: pet pills again, so we could work seventy two hours

987
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 2: in a row. Half the time we were hanging from

988
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 2: the ceiling. But it was a way of life for us.

989
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 2: That's torture, that's psychological. Yeah.

990
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 1: Wow, I just can't believe that they were like, well,

991
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: I mean when she signed thirty five Yeah, yeah, okay,

992
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: so they knew that we were giving Gis speed too.

993
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 1: There was no plausible deniability in any of this. They're like,

994
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: just take these pet pills. That are the vitamins our

995
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:02,720
Speaker 1: boys used to give Jerry. What give Jerry the old boot?

996
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,359
Speaker 1: Good lord. Yeah.

997
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 2: The psychological mistreatment and pharmaceutical abuse continued unabated on the

998
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 2: set of The Wizard of Oz due to her heavy workload.

999
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 2: Judy was quote under heavy medication, as the euphemism went

1000
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,360
Speaker 2: most of the time. In one representative incident, when Judy

1001
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 2: got the giggles during the scene where she's supposed to

1002
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 2: terrify the cowardly Lion, director Victor Fleming reportedly slapped her

1003
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 2: across the face embarked at her to go in there

1004
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 2: and work. The torture was physical as well as emotional.

1005
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 2: To create the illusion that Dorothy was twelve, which did

1006
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 2: not need to be the case since Bomb never cites

1007
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 2: her actual age in the books.

1008
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 1: Sixteen year old Judy was forced to wear a.

1009
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 2: Painful corset that flattened her chest and made it difficult

1010
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 2: to breathe during filming. Her blue Gingham dress was chosen

1011
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:57,320
Speaker 2: since it appeared slightly blorry on camera, which further obscured

1012
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 2: her figure out of clear up, a common misc exception.

1013
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 2: Her shirt is actually light pink and not white. Apparently

1014
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 2: white looked underwhelming and technicolor. On a similar note, the

1015
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 2: original yellow brick road looked green on the screen before

1016
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 2: the tint was adjusted. Well, a little funny colored tricks.

1017
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 2: Because of the weird they called three strip technicolor. I

1018
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 2: think that's what it was called.

1019
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: Do you have a technical section on technicolor A little bit? Yeah? Okay,

1020
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: good god, I know that's all for you. Baby. Movie magic, Oh,

1021
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 1: there's a lot of movie magic in here. Well, it

1022
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: has the ultimate movie magic, which is chowd abuse. Yes.

1023
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 1: Adding to Judy's dysmorphia, the studio placed.

1024
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 2: Her on a strict diet of chicken soup, black coffee,

1025
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 2: four packs of cigarettes to curve her appetite, and slimming

1026
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 2: tablets their words every four hours. Again, she was sixteen years.

1027
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,320
Speaker 1: Old, although this was back when like cafeteria food in

1028
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: the mg mcfeteria would be like fried chicken, lobster, thermidor

1029
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 1: griv yeah, c casino, Yeah, an entire rack of lamb

1030
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,959
Speaker 1: coated in heavy cream. Ah.

1031
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 2: Perhaps most criminal. Young Judy was banned from having even

1032
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 2: a single bite of candy. That's sad, adding insult to injury.

1033
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 2: Judy was also severely underpaid compared to her co stars,

1034
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 2: of course she was. While the tin Man, the Scarecrow,

1035
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,919
Speaker 2: the Lion, and the Wizard all made three thousand dollars

1036
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:24,760
Speaker 2: a week, Judy got five hundreds a sixth is correct.

1037
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,879
Speaker 2: Despite this, the male leads all resented the hell out

1038
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 2: of Judy because they felt like they were being upstaged

1039
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,760
Speaker 2: by some young teens. So not only were they making

1040
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 2: six times that she was making, they also hated her

1041
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 2: were mean to her as a result. The only adult

1042
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 2: friend that Judy had on the set was the Wicked

1043
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 2: Witch herself, Margaret Hamilton, who, as we'll discuss in a moment,

1044
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 2: was a saint of a woman and also had a

1045
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 2: lot of bad things happened to her. The only individuals

1046
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 2: on the set with lower salaries than Judy were Terry

1047
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 2: the Dog aka Toto, who made twenty five dollars a week,

1048
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 2: and in the residence of munchkin Land, who made fifty

1049
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 2: dollars a week. According to Judy, as we touched on earlier,

1050
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 2: the Munchkins got their revenge by sexually harassing and assaulting her.

1051
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: In an interview with.

1052
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 2: Jack Parr in the early sixties, Judy spoke at length

1053
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 2: about the munchkins poor behavior after they drank to excess,

1054
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 2: famously claiming that they needed to be rounded up with

1055
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,919
Speaker 2: butterfly nets for shooting the next morning. As we also

1056
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 2: touched on and we'll touch on more later, most of

1057
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 2: these rumors were falls, but in a memoir by Judy

1058
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 2: Garland's third husband, Sid Lufft, who by all accounts was

1059
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 2: not a nice man, he wrote that the actors who

1060
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 2: played the Munchkins quote would make Judy's life miserable by

1061
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 2: putting their hands under her dress. However, film historian Aljean Harmetz,

1062
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 2: who wrote the groundbreaking nineteen seventy seven book The Making

1063
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 2: of The Wizard of Oz, insisted the quote nobody on

1064
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 2: the movie ever saw her or heard of a munchkin

1065
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 2: assaulting her.

1066
00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: Your mileage mayvary, so now, oh, yeah, from sexual assault,

1067
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: let's talk about footwear.

1068
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was really no good transition there.

1069
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Yeah, no, I'm sorry. The famed ruby slippers

1070
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: of the film. Fans of Bomb's book and also Wicked

1071
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: will know that they were originally silver slippers, which obviously

1072
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: has a nice alliterative ring to it. But since Louis B.

1073
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 1: Mayor was shown out for glorious technicolor, he ordered the

1074
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: shoes changed from silver to ruby so they'd really pop.

1075
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: The slippers were designed by the legendary Gilbert Adrian, MGM's

1076
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: chief costume designer. A garish early version was made in

1077
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 1: a so called Arabian motif, with curling toes, high heels,

1078
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 1: and elaborate jewels, which were used in costume tests but

1079
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 1: ultimately discarded, probably because they were somehow more racist than

1080
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: they sound. Ah, they're really ugly too. The second design

1081
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: was closer to the version that we know and love,

1082
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 1: but with one modification. The beads that were initially used

1083
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: were too heavy, so they replaced with approximately twenty three

1084
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 1: hundred sequins per shoe.

1085
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 2: That's a great bart trivia right there.

1086
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: Well, even weirder, these sequins were made of gelatin, or

1087
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: the stuff that they grind up horses to make right. Jordan,

1088
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: horses of different colors, horses of every color. Well, it's

1089
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 1: really just their hooves that they grind up to make right.

1090
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: It's not the rest of the bones. Yeah, but they're dead.

1091
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 1: I was just checking. Yeah, and so This is a

1092
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: nightmare for people who would be actually trying to maintain

1093
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 1: these things because they don't react well to cleaning, So

1094
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 1: restoration texts for the Ruby slippers have to clean each

1095
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: sequin individually with cotton dipped in ice water. We prioritize

1096
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 1: a lot of weird country man shoes were just not

1097
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: very elaborate. Though they were simple white silk pumps made

1098
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,479
Speaker 1: by the Innis Shoe Company. They were then dyed red

1099
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 1: with burgundy sequined organs overlays attached. The film's technicolor process

1100
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 1: made things a little screwy with the colors. Bright red

1101
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 1: sequins would have appeared orange on screen, so they had

1102
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 1: to use something a little darker in real life. And

1103
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: if you've seen those at the Smithsonian, you will know

1104
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 1: that they are underwhelming. Yeah, according to those who worked

1105
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 1: on the film, somewhere between six and ten pairs of

1106
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 1: size five Ruby slippers were made for the production. No

1107
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: one knows the exact number since the studio destroyed those

1108
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: records many many years ago. And I wouldn't be surprised

1109
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 1: if half of them just ended up on the feet

1110
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 1: of another beaten child star.

1111
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:35,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually, probably right.

1112
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 1: And so some of these were actually meant to be

1113
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 1: used in close ups and summer were the ones that

1114
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: Judy actually walked and danced in, and those actually had

1115
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: orange felt a fixed on the soul so that they

1116
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: didn't make as much noise on the yellow brick roads set. George,

1117
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: do you want to take this? I feel like you

1118
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: want to take this. Sure, We're going to cut to

1119
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 1: Jordan for a quick little it belongs in a museum segment.

1120
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 2: Actually, I don't think it's gonna be that quick. This

1121
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,479
Speaker 2: is probably the most elaborate it belongs to the segment

1122
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:04,439
Speaker 2: we've ever done, and I am excited. Four screen used

1123
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 2: ruby slippers are known to exist today, and that's largely

1124
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 2: thanks to the effort at the humble costumer named Kent Warner.

1125
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 2: As we alluded to, for many decades, studios really didn't

1126
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 2: care about their old movie props. The memorabilia market wasn't

1127
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 2: really a thing yet, and the studios were either unaware

1128
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 2: of their potential value or they simply had other things

1129
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 2: to deal with and just didn't care. As a result,

1130
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 2: truly priceless pieces of film history often went missing. Members

1131
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 2: of the production crew would just walk off with stuff

1132
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:37,439
Speaker 2: as souvenirs, fully aware that the brass.

1133
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 1: Didn't care at all.

1134
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 2: Whatever remains was thrown into warehouses, basements, or barns on

1135
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 2: the lot, in many cases never to be seen again.

1136
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 2: But one person who did care was the aforementioned costumer,

1137
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 2: Kent Warner. He worked for MGM in nineteen sixty nine

1138
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 2: when the studio had just been sold and they were

1139
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 2: basically doing some house cleaning. Warner was tasked with helping

1140
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 2: clear out the arcis and one day he was given

1141
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 2: a pile of stuff to burn. One of the first

1142
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 2: things he saw on the pile was an overcoat. When

1143
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 2: he examined it, he discovered the name Bogart stitched inside,

1144
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 2: and it turned out it was the Casa Blanca overcoat.

1145
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 2: And that's around when he started to realize what they

1146
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 2: were sitting on. Since no one at the studio seemed

1147
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 2: to care, he set up a lucrative side hustle dealing

1148
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 2: movie memorabilia to folks in Hollywood. Eventually people started to

1149
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 2: come to him. Actress Debbie Reynolds became a frequent customer

1150
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 2: and a major MEMBERBILIA collector.

1151
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: She would contact Warner asking if he could find old.

1152
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 2: Props and costumes from things like her breakthrough role and

1153
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 2: singing in the rain, and then Kent would go digging,

1154
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 2: and then he'd meet her in a parking lot behind

1155
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 2: the right Aid in Fairfax and Sunset and do the.

1156
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: Handover from the back of his car. Uh huh.

1157
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 2: He also sold her the Arabian style prototype ruby slippers.

1158
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 2: Many of his dealings were purely sentimental. For example, when

1159
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 2: Betty Davis was on the lot making an appearance on

1160
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 2: the Smothers Brother's Comedy Hour, Warner brought her a gift

1161
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 2: the Queen Elizabeth costumes she wore for nineteen fifty five's

1162
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 2: The Virgin Queen, for which she'd won an Oscar. So

1163
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 2: all in all, we like Kent Warner. He's like a

1164
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 2: memorabilia Robin Hood. After a while, the new studio Brass

1165
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 2: began to realize what they had, so as a cost

1166
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 2: cutting measure, they held a gergantuan auction in May of

1167
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy featuring hundreds of thousands of props and costumes.

1168
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 2: Kent Warner was one of the people tests with finding

1169
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 2: and cataloging the goods, and he was the one finally

1170
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 2: found the fabled ruby slippers. It took a months of

1171
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 2: pawing through four hundred and fifty thousand costumes before you

1172
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 2: discover them in what I've seen alternately described as a

1173
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 2: dusty old barn that used to exist on the MGM

1174
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 2: lot or in a disused MGM basement, but in any case,

1175
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 2: they were not being cared for. He also found I

1176
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 2: think the witch's broom and the lions pelt, which we'll

1177
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 2: talk about later. And it was they were like literally

1178
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 2: being rained on, like it just was like all mildewy

1179
01:03:59,200 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 2: and gross.

1180
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 1: For Kent Warner's efforts, he was handsomely rewarded. He discovered

1181
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 1: three pairs of ruby slippers.

1182
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 2: But only turned one pair over to MGM. Yes, that

1183
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 2: became a centerpiece of their auction. He sold another pair

1184
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:15,120
Speaker 2: on the side to make a little money himself, and

1185
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 2: then he kept a third pair for himself as a souvenir,

1186
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 2: the most beautiful and elaborate.

1187
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: Version, which was the one that was used for close ups.

1188
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 2: Here's a quick rundown of the providence and present whereabouts

1189
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 2: of each.

1190
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 1: Pair of ruby slippers, so the MGM auction. The slippers

1191
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 1: sold at that auction in nineteen seventy and were bought

1192
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 1: for fifteen thousand dollars by a lawyer acting for an

1193
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: unidentified client. This is believed to be the pair on

1194
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 1: permanent exhibition at the Smithsonians Museum of American History in Washington,

1195
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 1: d C. Since nineteen seventy nine. Since then, they're referred

1196
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 1: to in OZ the OZ fandom as the People's shoes

1197
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 1: so good. I don't know if i'd refer to anything

1198
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 1: kept behind glass in PUCM, in our nation's most heavily

1199
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:02,440
Speaker 1: belized metropolitan city, the people's anything, but Okay, we'll might

1200
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 1: to take that away from the OZ heads.

1201
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 2: It's the only one we can easily see, or we

1202
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 2: could easily see for a long time.

1203
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 1: Sure. The attraction is so popular that the carpet surrounding

1204
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 1: the case the museum has been replaced multiple times due

1205
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 1: to wear and tear from a constant influx of visitors,

1206
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 1: and eagle eyed visitors will notice that the shoes on

1207
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 1: display are actually mismatched. Two pairs got jumbled, presumably back

1208
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 1: the MGM lot, and to this day they have never

1209
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 1: been reunited. It's sad.

1210
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a moriy episode waiting going to happen.

1211
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 2: For many years, Kent Warner kept the pristine version used

1212
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 2: for close ups himself They're known as the Witch's shoes

1213
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 2: because they're the ones seen on the week of Witch

1214
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 2: of the East, feet sticking out from under the house.

1215
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 2: But eventually he sold them through Christie's auction House in

1216
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one for twelve thousand dollars, and he tragically

1217
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 2: died three years later of a's related complications. These shoes

1218
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 2: changed hands a number of times before most recently being

1219
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 2: acquired for an undisclosed price by a consortium that includes

1220
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 2: Leonardo DiCaprio and Steven Spielberg to be donated to although

1221
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 2: I think they've already been donated to the Academy of

1222
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 2: Motion Picture Arts and Sciences Museum in Los Angeles.

1223
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 1: Oh, this sex One's great. X one's my favorite. There's

1224
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 1: another pair that wasn't acquired by Kent Warner. On the

1225
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 1: MGM backlot. A Tennessee woman named Roberto Bauman was awarded

1226
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 1: a genuine pair of screen used ruby slippers after competing

1227
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 1: in a name the best movies of nineteen thirty nine contest?

1228
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 1: You know one of those. I mean, this was a

1229
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:35,240
Speaker 1: time when they were making like what hundreds? Well, so

1230
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 1: what best? What is best? Critics? I don't know.

1231
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,360
Speaker 2: I actually don't know when this contest took place either.

1232
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 1: How do you have a contest to name the best

1233
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 1: of anything? Anyway, they were the second place prize in

1234
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 1: this contest was first house. I don't know, I mean.

1235
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 2: Think the memorabilia stuff was really like, no one considered

1236
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 2: that to be a valuable thing.

1237
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, man. So they were sold in nineteen eighty eight

1238
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 1: for one hundred and fifty thousand to a man who

1239
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 1: worked for the Walt Disney Company, who had plans to

1240
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 1: place them in the entryway for their Great Movie Ride

1241
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 1: in what was then known as MGM Park. These were

1242
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:15,560
Speaker 1: sold again in two thousand for six hundred and sixty

1243
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 1: six thousand dollars, which lol, lmao to la memorabilia dealers,

1244
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 1: who have reportedly not displayed the shoes. They're using them

1245
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: for weird sex stuff. Then they are not the people's shoes.

1246
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 1: They're the pervert shoes. So that's perhaps for good reason.

1247
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: When you hear about what happened to the fourth and

1248
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:36,479
Speaker 1: final pair, Oh yeah, this is nuts.

1249
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 2: So the final pair of ruby slippers. They were the

1250
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 2: ones that Kent warn Or sold on the side in

1251
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy to earn a little pocket money. They're the

1252
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:47,040
Speaker 2: mates to the mismatched pair at the Smithsonian. For many years,

1253
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 2: they were on display at the Judy Garland Museum in

1254
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 2: Grand Rapids, Minnesota. But then on the night of August

1255
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 2: twenty seventh, two thousand and five, a thief broke in

1256
01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 2: under cover of darkness, smashed the plexiglass case with a hammer,

1257
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 2: and made off with the famous shoes. An anonymous donor

1258
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:08,200
Speaker 2: offered one million dollars in exchange for information leading to

1259
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 2: their recovery. The FBI got involved, and a thirteen year

1260
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 2: manhunt ensued. They searched an old mine pit and even

1261
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:18,560
Speaker 2: dredged a local lake after getting a tip that the

1262
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 2: ruby slippers were stored in a waterproof lock box. They

1263
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 2: were finally recovered in twenty eighteen, and five years later,

1264
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 2: a federal grand jury indicted a Minnesota man named Terry

1265
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 2: John Martin on one count of theft, for which.

1266
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 1: He pled guilty.

1267
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 2: This man had a long history of burglary and receiving

1268
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 2: stolen goods, and his lawyer claimed he wanted to pull

1269
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 2: off And this is a quote one last score.

1270
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 1: Yes right, yes, wait, it gets so much better. I

1271
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 1: love that the FBI took thirteen years to find yes,

1272
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 1: and then and then oh my god, this is the

1273
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 1: whole story is incredible.

1274
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:00,439
Speaker 2: Part of the reason that this guy went through all

1275
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 2: this trouble and really wanted to make this his last

1276
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:05,919
Speaker 2: score was because he mistakenly believed that the ruby slippers

1277
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:10,719
Speaker 2: were adorned with actual rubies. Oh honey, and not party

1278
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 2: city sequence Terry, but dissolving water Terry, you sweet sweet idiot.

1279
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:19,719
Speaker 1: Yes.

1280
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:24,639
Speaker 2: So once he realized that he basically believed the shoes

1281
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 2: were worthless, which again lol, and he just sat on

1282
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 2: them for years. The shoes were ultimately returned to the

1283
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 2: museum and the thief Terry, who was now in his

1284
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:40,360
Speaker 2: late seventies confined to a wheelchair and living with supplementary oxygen,

1285
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 2: was sentenced the time served in January twenty twenty four

1286
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:47,200
Speaker 2: due to his poor health, meaning he kind of got.

1287
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 1: Away with it.

1288
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:52,800
Speaker 2: But uh yeah, this was in literally he was like

1289
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:57,719
Speaker 2: months ago. But about that whole worthless thing. These ruby

1290
01:09:57,720 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 2: slippers were put up for sale in December twenty twenty

1291
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 2: by Heritage Auctions, who believed they would earn somewhere in

1292
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:06,720
Speaker 2: the ballpark of three million dollars. The bidding reached that

1293
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:10,720
Speaker 2: amount within seconds, and it tripled in minutes. More than

1294
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 2: eight hundred people would place bids, but eventually the ruby

1295
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 2: slippers went to an unknown buyer who shelled out thirty

1296
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 2: two point five million dollars for these shoes, making it

1297
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 2: the most valuable piece of movie memorabilia ever sold at auction,

1298
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:29,040
Speaker 2: absolutely smashing the previous record held by the white dress

1299
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 2: that Marilyn Monroe wore on the Suburay Great for the

1300
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 2: seven year itch that sold for five point five to

1301
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:38,640
Speaker 2: two million. We are a nation of pervs and foot fetishists.

1302
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 2: These prices are very funny to me because in nineteen

1303
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:45,280
Speaker 2: eighty nine a pair of real ruby slippers with actual

1304
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 2: rubies were made to commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of the

1305
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 2: Wizard of Oz movie and they were only worth three million, depressing.

1306
01:10:53,600 --> 01:11:02,719
Speaker 1: So dogs from shoes to dogs. Toto Terry, the smarter

1307
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:05,240
Speaker 1: of the two Terry's that we've discussed in this story.

1308
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 1: Toto was played by a female Cairn terrier named Terry

1309
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 1: who belonged to famed movie dog trainer Carl Spitz. And

1310
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 1: you read that he got Terry from a customer who

1311
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 1: couldn't afford to pay his bill, so they paid in

1312
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 1: their dog which is sad. It is sad, deeply, deeply great.

1313
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 1: What's the dog exchange currency?

1314
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 2: It's the Great Depression. So that was a high premium.

1315
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 2: So like the price of steak, it was a good trade.

1316
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,240
Speaker 2: Terry was a very good girl and did ultimately over

1317
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 2: a dozen movie roles Oz was the most famous, and

1318
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 2: after the success of the film, Spitz changed her legal

1319
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:47,799
Speaker 2: name to Toto.

1320
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 1: You are no longer Terry. You are Toto now. I'm

1321
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 1: so sorry you were Now Toto. I gave you a

1322
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: name and I'm taking it away. Terry Toto was that

1323
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:01,639
Speaker 1: sounds like one of Judy Garland's other daughter, lorda luffed

1324
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 1: Terry Toto. Toto. Terry was paid one hundred and twenty

1325
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 1: five dollars a week, which is hold the phone, equivalent

1326
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:13,800
Speaker 1: to twenty seven hundred dollars just two years ago, more

1327
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 1: than the Munchkins made.

1328
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, my significant margin, I think, like more than double.

1329
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 1: Imagine how that felt. Yeah, find it out the dog

1330
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 1: made more than you. Yeah, but wait, it gets worse. Yes,

1331
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 1: it was also more than what the average American was

1332
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 1: making at that time, but in a way kind of

1333
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 1: earned it. Yeah, Terry Toto did their own stunts and

1334
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 1: was seriously injured during the filming when one of the

1335
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:46,680
Speaker 1: Flying Monkey Winkie guards accidentally stepped on her paw and

1336
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:50,400
Speaker 1: resulted in gout sprained her little paw for weeks. They

1337
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:53,240
Speaker 1: used a double before Terry Toto was well enough to return,

1338
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 1: which is a sweeter deal than one Buddy Ebsen got.

1339
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:01,120
Speaker 1: As we'll get on to later, Garland formed such an

1340
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 1: attachment to Terry Toto that when the production was over,

1341
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 1: she reportedly tried to buy her from Carl Spitz, who said, no,

1342
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:09,760
Speaker 1: you sixteen year old abuse child, get the out of

1343
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 1: my face. This dog is going to carry me for

1344
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:13,400
Speaker 1: the rest of my damn life.

1345
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 2: It's basically an emotional support animal for Judy Carlin, and

1346
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:18,959
Speaker 2: they took it away because.

1347
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 1: He recognized a meal ticket when he had one. Yeah. Yeah.

1348
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 1: Terry Toto continued to have an active career in show

1349
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:27,679
Speaker 1: business before dying in nineteen forty five at the age

1350
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:30,479
Speaker 1: of eleven. And then, of course, this is where it

1351
01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:34,080
Speaker 1: gets weirder. Carl Spitz buried her on his ranch in

1352
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:38,040
Speaker 1: Studio City, California. However, the ranch and her grave were

1353
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 1: destroyed in nineteen fifty eight with the construction of the

1354
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 1: Ventura Freeway. So now Terry Toto is resting peacefully under

1355
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 1: the one oh one.

1356
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:49,520
Speaker 2: Think of that next time you hear Venture Highway by American.

1357
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: Fans can pay their respects at the Hollywood Forever Cemetery,

1358
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 1: where memorial was dedicated on June eighteenth, twenty eleven. And

1359
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 1: all of this could have been avoided because the producers

1360
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,240
Speaker 1: of the film initially wanted a man in a dog

1361
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 1: suit play Toto.

1362
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:10,559
Speaker 2: I believe the total memorial is like steps from Chris

1363
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 2: Cornell and one of the Ramones.

1364
01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:16,720
Speaker 1: I think d maybe Johnny. I mean that dog was

1365
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:21,360
Speaker 1: a rock and roll icon of a sort in a

1366
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:25,719
Speaker 1: manner speaking doesn't mean anything anymore. So twenty years people

1367
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:30,599
Speaker 1: are gonna be like, what's rock music? As you meditate

1368
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 1: on that, we'll be right back with more too much

1369
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 1: information after these messages. Now, let's move on to the

1370
01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 1: tin Man, a role that nearly resulted in a man's death,

1371
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:57,720
Speaker 1: Thanks Frank. The role went to MGM contract player Ray

1372
01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:02,080
Speaker 1: Boulger initially, and Bolger wasn't actually that thrilled. He was

1373
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:05,760
Speaker 1: known for his physicality and bizarre movements as sort of

1374
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:07,840
Speaker 1: his stock in trade, and so he thought he would

1375
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 1: be better utilized playing Scarecrow, so he switched roles with

1376
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 1: the man originally cast as the scarecrow Future Beverly Hi'll

1377
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:18,840
Speaker 1: Billy Star, Buddy Ebson, and then things went tits up

1378
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:23,839
Speaker 1: for Paul Barty. He was famously poisoned by the silver makeup,

1379
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 1: which was made of pure aluminum dust. Hasn't been one

1380
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 1: hundred years since this year. People were just like, yeah,

1381
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:36,920
Speaker 1: throw a bunch of heavy metal on him, Adam, I

1382
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:40,160
Speaker 1: know it'll be really finely ground, so we'll get all everywhere.

1383
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 2: No, it'll be really funny.

1384
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 1: Fine, you're gonna look silver. Are we selling for you?

1385
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:54,320
Speaker 1: It's so bad? And he inhaled it, of course, and

1386
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:57,639
Speaker 1: it coated his lungs. He would later say production had

1387
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:00,559
Speaker 1: been underway for ten days when one night, after dinner,

1388
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:04,519
Speaker 1: I took a deep breath and nothing happened. I felt

1389
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 1: like no air had reached my lungs, as though someone

1390
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 1: had coated them with glue, and my breathing was excruciatingly labored.

1391
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:13,160
Speaker 1: I wondered if I was dying. It was me when

1392
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 1: I had ammonia. You didn't even get to play a

1393
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:20,240
Speaker 1: silver guy. Mister Ebbson would later claim that MGM ignored

1394
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:24,000
Speaker 1: his complaints and ordered him to keep filming. Then, according

1395
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 1: to the South Florida Sun Sentinel, he awoke in the

1396
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 1: middle of the night, quote screaming from violent cramping in

1397
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:34,040
Speaker 1: his hands, arms, and legs. When he had difficulty breathing,

1398
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 1: his wife called an ambulance and rushed him to the hospital.

1399
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:40,840
Speaker 1: He remained in an oxygen tent for two weeks, recovering

1400
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:43,920
Speaker 1: from the pure aluminium he had adjusted into his lungs.

1401
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:47,360
Speaker 1: MGM Brass responded in the way that you would expect

1402
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:50,120
Speaker 1: from the man who had called Judy Garland his little hunchback.

1403
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 1: They told Ebsen get the hell back to work. When

1404
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:59,040
Speaker 1: the studio was told that Ebsen, whose skin had turned blue,

1405
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,200
Speaker 1: which is what happens when you don't get enough oxygen,

1406
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 1: could not immediately returned, production, simply replaced him. Ebsen would

1407
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 1: say in the Making of The Wizard of Oz book

1408
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:10,680
Speaker 1: that he considered taking legal action against the studio, but

1409
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:13,760
Speaker 1: decided that it would be a bad career move. You

1410
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:17,160
Speaker 1: didn't just lightly sue MGM, he said, because it was

1411
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 1: a capital p power. Yes, there was a certain cohesion

1412
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:23,719
Speaker 1: between the moguls. They used to all play poker together

1413
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:26,320
Speaker 1: on Saturday nights and decide who the good actors were

1414
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:29,880
Speaker 1: and who were the bad. But Ebsen, why did you

1415
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:33,400
Speaker 1: put a butt in there? It's just funny because you

1416
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:37,120
Speaker 1: were like but Thoms turned around for him. But good

1417
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:39,960
Speaker 1: news for old buddy. He would later say that missing

1418
01:17:40,040 --> 01:17:41,680
Speaker 1: out on the chance to be in the Wizard of

1419
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:47,719
Speaker 1: Oz his biggest professional disappointment of his entire life. He did, however,

1420
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:50,799
Speaker 1: outlive both Ray Bolger, who played the Scarecrow, and Jack Haley,

1421
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:53,640
Speaker 1: his replacement of the Tin Man ninety five, when he

1422
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:56,240
Speaker 1: died in two thousand and three. Oh, the cowardly lion

1423
01:17:56,320 --> 01:17:58,280
Speaker 1: Bert Lair was actually the first to go in nineteen

1424
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 1: sixty seven. So hey, if any of you influencers out

1425
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:07,720
Speaker 1: there haven't tried inhaling pure aluminum dust, this is not

1426
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 1: illegally binding opinion, and you can't sue us for this,

1427
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:16,720
Speaker 1: but give it a shot. Why not? What was the

1428
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:22,960
Speaker 1: mother loved God woman? She was ingesting pure amy? Carlson? Oh,

1429
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:25,320
Speaker 1: she was mummified, right. It wasn't even that. It was

1430
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:28,120
Speaker 1: that she had literally poisoned herself in her last years

1431
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:31,640
Speaker 1: by oh, yes, she had been ingesting huge amounts of

1432
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:36,839
Speaker 1: colloidal silver. Oh, she was down to seventy five pounds

1433
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 1: and had seizure's organ failure and also drinking volica that

1434
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:44,360
Speaker 1: was her diet, like she was an insane alcoholic and

1435
01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 1: drinking colloidal silver. So but important to note was not

1436
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:55,599
Speaker 1: confectioner's grade aluminum. So again we haven't rolled that out

1437
01:18:55,960 --> 01:18:57,679
Speaker 1: as a sort of mystery cure.

1438
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:01,799
Speaker 2: All buddy Epsence replace as the tin man, Jack Haley

1439
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:05,639
Speaker 2: assumed that Epsoen had been fired, or at least that's

1440
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:08,040
Speaker 2: what he said to feel less bad about taking this

1441
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:11,840
Speaker 2: roll from this poor guy. Jack Haley benefited from the

1442
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 2: misfortunes of his predecessor because the production team quietly changed

1443
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:18,839
Speaker 2: the makeup from an illuminum dust to an aluminum paste

1444
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:21,519
Speaker 2: that they painted on him with a layer of white

1445
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:25,520
Speaker 2: clown grease paint underneath in order to protect his skin, which.

1446
01:19:25,479 --> 01:19:27,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure looked absolutely horrifying.

1447
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:31,640
Speaker 2: Even so, despite these precautions, Jack Haley still managed to

1448
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:34,840
Speaker 2: get a really nasty infection in his right eye thanks

1449
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:38,760
Speaker 2: to his makeup. Also, since the suit was made of

1450
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 2: you know, actual metal, he couldn't sit down on the set,

1451
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:43,759
Speaker 2: so for relief, he leaned.

1452
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:52,559
Speaker 1: Against a specially constructed board. Here's your boy. MGM. Really

1453
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:54,160
Speaker 1: took care of me back in the days. They gave

1454
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:54,759
Speaker 1: me a board.

1455
01:19:56,920 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 2: But on the upside, there was plenty of ark with

1456
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:04,759
Speaker 2: going around. During the scenes when Jack Haley was supposed

1457
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:07,799
Speaker 2: to shed tears as the ten Man, the producers decided

1458
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:11,639
Speaker 2: to use chocolate syrup for oily teardrops because the chocolate

1459
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:14,719
Speaker 2: syrup streaks showed up better and more clearly on camera.

1460
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 2: They really got a lot of mileage out of chocolate syrup.

1461
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:20,599
Speaker 1: Back in the sure did famously blood for a long time.

1462
01:20:20,720 --> 01:20:24,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, adorably, I like this. This is a rare sweet

1463
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:28,920
Speaker 2: moment here. Jack Haley lived near Ray Bolger later in life,

1464
01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:32,400
Speaker 2: the Scarecrow. According to Scott Michaels of The Dearly Departed

1465
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:35,599
Speaker 2: podcast one of my favorite podcasts, he once sent Jack

1466
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:38,920
Speaker 2: Haley a photo to sign and Haley wrote back and said, Hey,

1467
01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:41,080
Speaker 2: the straw man lives down the street. What't mean he

1468
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:43,439
Speaker 2: got him to sign it too. I love that they

1469
01:20:43,479 --> 01:20:49,439
Speaker 2: would just exchange autograph requests. But my favorite az familial connection.

1470
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:51,679
Speaker 2: And if you didn't know this high goal or listeners,

1471
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:53,040
Speaker 2: this is going to blow your mind.

1472
01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:53,519
Speaker 1: Go on.

1473
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 2: Judy Garland's daughter Liza Minelli married Jack Haley's son, Jack

1474
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 2: Hayley Junior. So the daughter of Dorothy married the son

1475
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:04,839
Speaker 2: of the tin Man. Isn't that crazy?

1476
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:05,880
Speaker 1: Nice?

1477
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 2: They split in nineteen seventy nine, but still they had

1478
01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:10,120
Speaker 2: a few years there.

1479
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:12,080
Speaker 1: Do you know about any of the other ones, like

1480
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:13,519
Speaker 1: did the Son of the Tin Man and the Son

1481
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:13,920
Speaker 1: of the Lion?

1482
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:19,400
Speaker 2: Some of the Lion became a really famous critic and author,

1483
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:22,559
Speaker 2: and he wrote a great book about the playwright Joe Orton,

1484
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 2: John Lair.

1485
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:26,800
Speaker 1: Sure man, Okay, what about the other guy? I don't

1486
01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:28,320
Speaker 1: know the other guy? All right.

1487
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:31,479
Speaker 2: No footage of Buddy Epsen as the tin Man has

1488
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:34,920
Speaker 2: ever been released, only photos taken during filming and makeup tests,

1489
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:37,759
Speaker 2: but his voice is heard on some of the songs.

1490
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:41,720
Speaker 2: To keep down production costs, which this we'll discover, was

1491
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:45,519
Speaker 2: very important to the studio, Jack Haley only re recorded

1492
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:48,519
Speaker 2: The Tin Man's solo spots if I Only Had a Heart,

1493
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:51,280
Speaker 2: and the solo lines during If I Only Had the Nerve,

1494
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:54,799
Speaker 2: the Cowardly Lyons song, and a song that was ultimately scrapped,

1495
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:59,080
Speaker 2: the Jitterbug, which we'll discuss later. As such, Buddy Epsen's

1496
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:01,679
Speaker 2: voice can still be heard on the remaining songs where

1497
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:04,439
Speaker 2: the tin Man was part of the ensemble, namely We're

1498
01:22:04,479 --> 01:22:05,439
Speaker 2: Off to see the Wizard.

1499
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:07,320
Speaker 1: The voices are easy.

1500
01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:10,679
Speaker 2: To tell apart because Jack Haley has a distinctive Boston accent.

1501
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:14,400
Speaker 2: Oh No, as anyone who has seen The Departed knows,

1502
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:17,000
Speaker 2: he failed to pronounce the R in Wizard.

1503
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:22,280
Speaker 1: So that's why you get the Wizard the Wizard. You know,

1504
01:22:22,960 --> 01:22:24,839
Speaker 1: I wouldn't you want doing that on a soundboard.

1505
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:30,400
Speaker 2: Buddy Epsen, like Judy Garland, was a Midwesterner and pronounced

1506
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:32,639
Speaker 2: the R, so you can hear that in those songs.

1507
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:35,600
Speaker 2: Another fun fact about the tin Man song is that

1508
01:22:35,640 --> 01:22:40,360
Speaker 2: it features a vocal cameo from snow White herself. Producers

1509
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:44,240
Speaker 2: paid voice actress Adriana Caslatti, who's just blown up playing

1510
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:46,679
Speaker 2: the title role in Disney Snow White and the Seven Doors.

1511
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:50,360
Speaker 1: And honestly, in these days of Hollywood, that may not

1512
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:51,360
Speaker 1: have been a euphemism.

1513
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:56,559
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, MGM pay her one thousand dollars to sing

1514
01:22:56,600 --> 01:22:57,519
Speaker 2: a single line.

1515
01:22:58,280 --> 01:23:00,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, they paid her. With Judy Garland made it a

1516
01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:06,240
Speaker 1: month good, it's because she was an Italian and not

1517
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:07,040
Speaker 1: a Minnesotan.

1518
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:09,679
Speaker 2: When the tin Man sings the song, if I only

1519
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:12,320
Speaker 2: had a heart. She adds the line, where far out

1520
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:17,880
Speaker 2: there I Can'm not gonna do it, And those five

1521
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,080
Speaker 2: words earned her a grand.

1522
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:21,120
Speaker 1: Good for her?

1523
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that seems she looks like. I actually have no

1524
01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:27,080
Speaker 2: idea what the real snow white voice looks like. Oh damn,

1525
01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:28,960
Speaker 2: I would have paid her a grand.

1526
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:35,560
Speaker 1: For one sentence. Her her father, Guido Luigi Emmanuel Cassilotti,

1527
01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:43,560
Speaker 1: that's racist. Her mother Maria Josephine or Afiice Castelotti. Wow, Oh,

1528
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:46,280
Speaker 1: this is actually kind of crazy. Her mom was a

1529
01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:50,440
Speaker 1: singer in the Royal Opera of Rome and Adriana. Cassilotti's

1530
01:23:50,479 --> 01:23:57,759
Speaker 1: older sister, Louise was a voice teacher of Maria Callas. Whoa. Wow.

1531
01:23:59,160 --> 01:24:02,000
Speaker 1: Good for her, I say, well, that's crazy. All right,

1532
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:03,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad we did that.

1533
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:06,439
Speaker 2: Now we're moving on to a section I call the

1534
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:12,920
Speaker 2: straw man fallacity. The scarecrow or straw man are used interchangeably.

1535
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 1: Now I feel like one of those is more racist

1536
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 1: than the other.

1537
01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 2: Discuss straw man sounds like it. Scarecrow, Well, no, because

1538
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:24,280
Speaker 2: that's literally what it's doing. It's scaring crows, scaring crows.

1539
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:25,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, the.

1540
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:29,400
Speaker 2: Scarecrow is a whole quasi scandalous subplot that was xcized

1541
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:31,840
Speaker 2: from the final movie. You may recall at the end

1542
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:34,480
Speaker 2: of the film that Dorothy says she'll miss the Scarecrow

1543
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:35,200
Speaker 2: most of all.

1544
01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:37,000
Speaker 1: It's not really clear why this is.

1545
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:39,360
Speaker 2: I just sort of assumed that it was because he

1546
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:41,280
Speaker 2: was the first of the characters she met, so they

1547
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:44,479
Speaker 2: had a bond. But apparently there's a romantic subplot between

1548
01:24:44,479 --> 01:24:46,519
Speaker 2: the two that was removed from an early version of

1549
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 2: the script. There was even a scene written but never

1550
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:52,000
Speaker 2: filmed at the end of the movie where Hunk, the

1551
01:24:52,040 --> 01:24:55,639
Speaker 2: real world Kansas counterpart to Scarecrow, is leaving for an

1552
01:24:55,640 --> 01:24:59,439
Speaker 2: agricultural college and he asks Dorothy to write him every day,

1553
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:04,840
Speaker 2: implying a blossoming romance, which is weird. Twelve she's supposed

1554
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:10,480
Speaker 2: to be twelve and Hunk yeah, yeah, was eighteen.

1555
01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:15,240
Speaker 1: Oh at least yeah Hunk yeah fuck country.

1556
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:20,080
Speaker 2: Speaking of things that don't totally make sense, After the

1557
01:25:20,120 --> 01:25:23,719
Speaker 2: Scarecrow gets his brain, he supposedly states the Pythagorean theorem

1558
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:27,679
Speaker 2: to prove that he's now wicked smat. Unfortunately, he says

1559
01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:28,520
Speaker 2: it incorrectly.

1560
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:29,519
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1561
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 2: Apparently actor Ray Bulger had a problem getting the line out,

1562
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:35,360
Speaker 2: so director Victor Fleming just went with the best take,

1563
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:37,000
Speaker 2: even if the lines weren't.

1564
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:41,120
Speaker 1: Perfect movie magic halfassing thing. Yes, yes, we've got this

1565
01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:43,280
Speaker 1: twelve year old jacked up on speed, and she's only

1566
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:45,080
Speaker 1: going to be coherent for so much longer.

1567
01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:48,480
Speaker 2: Yes, it's possible that Ray Bulger was just completely exhausted

1568
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:50,920
Speaker 2: and too tired to recite the line correctly because he

1569
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 2: was forced to arrive on set at four am to

1570
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:57,840
Speaker 2: have his makeup applied, and often worked fifteen hours or more.

1571
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 2: And those makeup wasn't a toxic as the tin man's,

1572
01:26:01,439 --> 01:26:04,679
Speaker 2: it still sucked. The face mask he wore was made

1573
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:06,880
Speaker 2: of rubber, and it was so heavy and tight that

1574
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:10,719
Speaker 2: it nearly suffocated him. Several times he's quoted as saying

1575
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:13,959
Speaker 2: that the mask quote wasn't porous, so you couldn't sweat,

1576
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:17,200
Speaker 2: you couldn't breathe through your skin. We felt like we

1577
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:20,680
Speaker 2: were suffocating. And it's been said that the facial prosthetics

1578
01:26:20,760 --> 01:26:24,640
Speaker 2: left permanent lines on him. See it seems false, but

1579
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:27,360
Speaker 2: I've also heard versions that the marks took a year

1580
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:31,240
Speaker 2: to fully disappear, and that I believe. On a similar note,

1581
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:34,479
Speaker 2: Margaret Hamilton's copper based Wicked Witch of the West makeup

1582
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:38,040
Speaker 2: left her face green for a less than convenient amount

1583
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:41,439
Speaker 2: of time. After shooting wrapped, she'd say that the makeup

1584
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:44,639
Speaker 2: quote sunk into my skin. It must have been months

1585
01:26:44,720 --> 01:26:49,439
Speaker 2: before my face was really normal again. Plus, her makeup

1586
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:52,000
Speaker 2: was so toxic that she wasn't allowed to eat with

1587
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:55,439
Speaker 2: it on because they didn't want to risk her ingesting it.

1588
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 2: So throughout the entire production of the Wizard of Oz,

1589
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:00,760
Speaker 2: Margaret Hamilton, the Wicked Witch of the West, had to

1590
01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:03,240
Speaker 2: live on a liquid diet and consume her meals through

1591
01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:06,080
Speaker 2: a straw so she wouldn't get poisoned due to the

1592
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:10,320
Speaker 2: copper based ingredients. So, in case you're counting, this is

1593
01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:13,280
Speaker 2: the third cast member who was nearly killed or maimed

1594
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:16,120
Speaker 2: due to make up related injuries. And we didn't even

1595
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:18,439
Speaker 2: get to the Cowardly Lion yet. I gotta say, man,

1596
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:21,960
Speaker 2: they're lucky they didn't use like a skin mask. They

1597
01:27:22,040 --> 01:27:24,840
Speaker 2: keep peeling on and they're like, yeah, put on. You're like, ah, gosh,

1598
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:29,719
Speaker 2: why does this smell like tobacco. The only cast member

1599
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:32,559
Speaker 2: that producers showed any caution and compassion for was the

1600
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:35,320
Speaker 2: so called horse of a different Color that the gang

1601
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:38,439
Speaker 2: meets when they arrive at the Emerald City. For that effect,

1602
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:41,080
Speaker 2: they covered the horse with a different colored Jellow powder

1603
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:42,679
Speaker 2: each time they wanted to make a new.

1604
01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:44,320
Speaker 1: Color made with his friends.

1605
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:49,200
Speaker 2: Yes, was made from the hooves of dead horses, which

1606
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:51,519
Speaker 2: is perhaps why the horse kept trying to kick the

1607
01:27:51,560 --> 01:27:53,599
Speaker 2: powder off in between takes.

1608
01:27:55,320 --> 01:27:57,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we're just saying further into hell.

1609
01:27:57,800 --> 01:27:59,599
Speaker 2: This is going to keep getting worse. This is why

1610
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:03,160
Speaker 2: I was excited to do this episode. It's really something

1611
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:06,479
Speaker 2: speaking of animals being treated badly. This leads us to

1612
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:09,880
Speaker 2: the Cowardly Lion, a character that has always annoyed me deeply.

1613
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:11,920
Speaker 1: The only thing that I have, like I know Bert

1614
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:15,519
Speaker 1: Lar is like he was like famous in England. Maybe

1615
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:19,280
Speaker 1: he was in waiting for goodo oh yeah, and then

1616
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:23,280
Speaker 1: for a time period. Uh, I would listen to the

1617
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:26,960
Speaker 1: recording of him and whoever the other guy in it

1618
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:30,040
Speaker 1: is like falling asleep. So I've actually listened to a

1619
01:28:30,040 --> 01:28:32,360
Speaker 1: lot more of Burt Leiar's voice than you would have assumed.

1620
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:35,600
Speaker 1: He has a good voice. Yeah, yeah, I forget if

1621
01:28:35,640 --> 01:28:36,840
Speaker 1: he's laded me your astra gone.

1622
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:41,480
Speaker 2: But well, well, before they cast Burt Leir, the producers

1623
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:45,080
Speaker 2: at MGM, whose logo you'll recall, is a lion. We're

1624
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:48,400
Speaker 2: considering using an actual real life lion on screen.

1625
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:52,040
Speaker 1: Yes, that's the old Hollywood vibes I was looking for.

1626
01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:55,479
Speaker 2: They were going to overdub lines by an actor. So okay,

1627
01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:58,599
Speaker 2: you've got the pilled up sixteen year old. Yep, you've

1628
01:28:58,640 --> 01:29:01,719
Speaker 2: got the man who was most killed and then replaced

1629
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 2: with another guy who's can't sit down and has various

1630
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:06,200
Speaker 2: eye and skin infections.

1631
01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:11,560
Speaker 1: The guy with the board, Yeah.

1632
01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:12,280
Speaker 2: He've got the other guy whose skin is suffocating, and

1633
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:14,280
Speaker 2: you got the woman with poison all over her face

1634
01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:17,320
Speaker 2: who has to drink her meals through a straw. Really,

1635
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:21,200
Speaker 2: adding a lion to the proceedings was really the only

1636
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:24,800
Speaker 2: way to up the ante on all this. Instead, they

1637
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:28,559
Speaker 2: just decided to torture yet another person per layer. This

1638
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:32,040
Speaker 2: was an era before synthetic fur, so he was forced

1639
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:35,479
Speaker 2: to wear a real lions pelt, which weighed upwards of

1640
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:36,439
Speaker 2: ninety pounds.

1641
01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:39,160
Speaker 1: I mean, that's quite that's quite regal.

1642
01:29:39,240 --> 01:29:43,240
Speaker 2: Though, no, no, no, let me finish. This was not

1643
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:47,280
Speaker 2: fun under extremely hot Technicolor lights, which caused temperatures on

1644
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:51,560
Speaker 2: the set to frequently break one hundred degrees. Sure, cinematographer

1645
01:29:51,560 --> 01:29:53,599
Speaker 2: Harold Rosson later said, in the making of the Wizard

1646
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,559
Speaker 2: of Oz, we had enormous banks of lights overhead. We

1647
01:29:56,600 --> 01:30:00,479
Speaker 2: borrowed every unused arc light in Hollywood. It was brutally hot.

1648
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:03,840
Speaker 2: People were always fainting and being carried off the set.

1649
01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:06,200
Speaker 1: But wait, it still gets worse.

1650
01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:09,600
Speaker 2: Costomers, you know, normally try to create duplicate outfits to

1651
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:12,280
Speaker 2: use throughout the production to swap out, but this was

1652
01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:15,519
Speaker 2: impossible for the Cowardly Lion's costume because the production were

1653
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:19,080
Speaker 2: unable to find lion hides and pelts at an identical color,

1654
01:30:19,240 --> 01:30:20,799
Speaker 2: swirls and fur patterns.

1655
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:23,920
Speaker 1: So as a result, Burtlair was forced to wear.

1656
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:27,759
Speaker 2: The same ninety pounds costume under one hundred degree lights

1657
01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:29,200
Speaker 2: every day.

1658
01:30:30,160 --> 01:30:31,760
Speaker 1: I know it smelled crazy in there.

1659
01:30:31,920 --> 01:30:34,680
Speaker 2: He sweated so much that the cost of had to

1660
01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:38,040
Speaker 2: be put in an industrial drying bin each night to dry.

1661
01:30:37,880 --> 01:30:38,839
Speaker 1: The first person.

1662
01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:43,120
Speaker 2: This is also probably as good a time as any

1663
01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:45,240
Speaker 2: to note that the Tin Man of Scarecrow and Cowardly

1664
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:49,480
Speaker 2: Lion were reportedly banned from eating in the MGM cafeteria

1665
01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:52,479
Speaker 2: because the sight of them in makeup was deemed too

1666
01:30:52,520 --> 01:30:56,519
Speaker 2: disturbing and disgusting. While other people were eating Yeah, and

1667
01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:58,920
Speaker 2: probably because of the smell as you mentioned.

1668
01:30:59,040 --> 01:31:00,920
Speaker 1: As you might expect. Even our lengthy.

1669
01:31:00,640 --> 01:31:03,160
Speaker 2: Seven r on the Ruby Slippers, the lion costume was

1670
01:31:03,280 --> 01:31:05,760
Speaker 2: lost and forgotten on the MGM lot until it was

1671
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:08,680
Speaker 2: dug up for the famous auction in nineteen seventy when

1672
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:11,160
Speaker 2: it was sold for twenty four hundred dollars. That was

1673
01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:13,880
Speaker 2: a good investment because it sold most recently in twenty

1674
01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:19,799
Speaker 2: fourteen for three million. And now we get to, honestly,

1675
01:31:19,960 --> 01:31:22,200
Speaker 2: the character that I hated the most, but the actor

1676
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:25,080
Speaker 2: on the set that I love the most, Margaret Hamilton.

1677
01:31:25,439 --> 01:31:28,400
Speaker 1: Despite the fact that her character traumatized multiple generation of

1678
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:31,040
Speaker 1: children and probably adult who weren't used to seeing a

1679
01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:34,360
Speaker 1: woman with agency, much less one with green skin, Margaret

1680
01:31:34,360 --> 01:31:37,679
Speaker 1: Hamilton was arguably the sweetest person associated with the movie.

1681
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:38,960
Speaker 1: The week of Witch of the West is just a

1682
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:41,120
Speaker 1: small role in the original book, but the part was

1683
01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:43,880
Speaker 1: expanded for the film to give it a stronger dramatic arc,

1684
01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:47,720
Speaker 1: and interestingly, the character was initially supposed to be less

1685
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:51,880
Speaker 1: green and more Mortitia Adams. Sleek and sexy is a

1686
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:56,080
Speaker 1: phrase that pops up and slinky and seductive with comparisons

1687
01:31:56,080 --> 01:31:59,200
Speaker 1: to the evil Queen in the just released Snow White,

1688
01:31:59,320 --> 01:32:02,679
Speaker 1: which makes sense considering that OZ was intended to compete

1689
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:06,479
Speaker 1: with the Disney feature. But producers were uncomfortable with the

1690
01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:10,639
Speaker 1: fact that an evil witch could be beautiful, which surely

1691
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:15,639
Speaker 1: they had dealt with Elizabeth Taylor. Oh, surely had they

1692
01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:18,720
Speaker 1: had dealt with Leni Riefenstahl. I don't know what other

1693
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:21,799
Speaker 1: reference do you want me to have in there that works?

1694
01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:24,519
Speaker 1: Surely they had dealt with Judy Garlands, Surely they had

1695
01:32:24,720 --> 01:32:30,120
Speaker 1: dealt with Ethel Gunn just plug whichever one of those

1696
01:32:30,160 --> 01:32:34,000
Speaker 1: in their works. So their first casting choice was the

1697
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:38,639
Speaker 1: glamorous Gail Sonda God and she departed the project soon after.

1698
01:32:39,360 --> 01:32:41,559
Speaker 1: So the producers went to Margaret Hamilton, who was just

1699
01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:44,639
Speaker 1: thirty six at the time of casting meeting The Wicked

1700
01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:47,120
Speaker 1: Witch of the West, is younger than the average listener

1701
01:32:47,200 --> 01:32:50,720
Speaker 1: of this podcast. I'm so sorry. When her agent told

1702
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:52,759
Speaker 1: her that she was up for the movie, Margaret Hamilton

1703
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 1: wanted to know which part she might have had the

1704
01:32:54,479 --> 01:32:58,040
Speaker 1: chance to play, and her agent scoffed the Wicked Witch

1705
01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:03,320
Speaker 1: what else instead of firing him. Margaret Hamilton took the

1706
01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:06,200
Speaker 1: part partially because she was newly divorced with a young

1707
01:33:06,280 --> 01:33:08,760
Speaker 1: son to support, but mostly because she grew up loving

1708
01:33:08,760 --> 01:33:10,840
Speaker 1: the books and was genuinely thrilled to bring it to

1709
01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:14,120
Speaker 1: the big screen. She was the only person that actually

1710
01:33:14,200 --> 01:33:16,880
Speaker 1: had any true love of OZ as far as the

1711
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:19,360
Speaker 1: rest of the cast went. Hamilton was a was a

1712
01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:22,679
Speaker 1: kindergarten teacher before she became an actress, and she displayed

1713
01:33:22,720 --> 01:33:24,720
Speaker 1: a great deal of concern for the kids who would

1714
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:29,720
Speaker 1: ultimately view her performance and be terrified. Apparently, she successfully

1715
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:32,479
Speaker 1: lobbied to have some of her more terrifying scenes cut

1716
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:33,200
Speaker 1: from the film.

1717
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:35,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, this makes me feel sad thinking about her famous

1718
01:33:35,760 --> 01:33:39,240
Speaker 2: Sesame Street episode in the seventies, which aired once and

1719
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:42,880
Speaker 2: then never again because it was deemed too scary for kids.

1720
01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:44,240
Speaker 1: She then appeared on an.

1721
01:33:44,200 --> 01:33:47,280
Speaker 2: Episode of Mister Rogers Neighborhood in nineteen seventy five, where

1722
01:33:47,320 --> 01:33:50,040
Speaker 2: she explained the children that she was only playing a

1723
01:33:50,120 --> 01:33:53,960
Speaker 2: role and showed how putting on a costume transformed her

1724
01:33:53,960 --> 01:33:54,719
Speaker 2: into a witch.

1725
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:56,840
Speaker 1: And by all account, Hamilton was in delight on the

1726
01:33:56,880 --> 01:33:59,960
Speaker 1: set of OZ, despite the fact that production almost came

1727
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:04,160
Speaker 1: as it was a theme. She took a young Judy

1728
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:06,559
Speaker 1: Garland under her wing when she was ostracized by her

1729
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:09,760
Speaker 1: jealous male castmates, and Hamilton grew so close to the

1730
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:12,240
Speaker 1: entire cast that she was reduced to tears while watching

1731
01:34:12,280 --> 01:34:14,600
Speaker 1: the scene with a Wizard, Get with a Wizard, with

1732
01:34:14,600 --> 01:34:20,599
Speaker 1: the Wizard with the Wizard Humbo. She grew she grew

1733
01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:23,040
Speaker 1: so close to the entire Hamilton grew so close to

1734
01:34:23,080 --> 01:34:25,120
Speaker 1: the entire cast that she was reduced to tears while

1735
01:34:25,160 --> 01:34:27,720
Speaker 1: watching the scene where the wizard gives Dorothy's friends There

1736
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:30,559
Speaker 1: gives at the end of the movie, and rather than

1737
01:34:30,600 --> 01:34:33,760
Speaker 1: harboring fears of being type cast, Hamilton loved being in

1738
01:34:33,800 --> 01:34:36,080
Speaker 1: this movie and celebrated it every day for the rest

1739
01:34:36,120 --> 01:34:39,439
Speaker 1: of her life. She used the phrase I'll get you

1740
01:34:39,479 --> 01:34:41,800
Speaker 1: by pretty as sort of a personal catchphrase in the

1741
01:34:41,880 --> 01:34:44,160
Speaker 1: day to day, and on Halloween, she would hand out

1742
01:34:44,240 --> 01:34:47,120
Speaker 1: candy at her house while dressed as Louis B. Mayer. No, no,

1743
01:34:47,160 --> 01:34:51,200
Speaker 1: she was dressed as a witch. While she loved kids,

1744
01:34:51,479 --> 01:34:54,000
Speaker 1: Hamilton discovered that many were afraid to meet her because

1745
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:56,280
Speaker 1: they assumed she either was a literal witch or that

1746
01:34:56,360 --> 01:34:59,040
Speaker 1: at least she was as mean as her character, But

1747
01:34:59,120 --> 01:35:01,160
Speaker 1: she got a great sense of humor about her role

1748
01:35:01,200 --> 01:35:04,840
Speaker 1: in popular culture. In interviews, she frequently said that she

1749
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:07,800
Speaker 1: hoped newspapers would print the words ding dong, the Witch

1750
01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:10,840
Speaker 1: is dead in her death notice, and when she died

1751
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:14,440
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty five, many newspapers granted her her wish.

1752
01:35:14,479 --> 01:35:18,360
Speaker 1: And here's a fun fact for anyone like me who

1753
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:20,919
Speaker 1: only perks up their ears at the name Boris Karloff.

1754
01:35:21,280 --> 01:35:25,200
Speaker 1: The Wicked Witch's crystal ball was previously used in Awe

1755
01:35:25,320 --> 01:35:28,679
Speaker 1: The Mask of Fu Manchu, which is a super racist film.

1756
01:35:28,720 --> 01:35:34,799
Speaker 1: They do so much yellow face in that. Well, Glinda

1757
01:35:34,840 --> 01:35:39,960
Speaker 1: the Goodwitch, you know, the boring one. Glinda the Goodwitch's

1758
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:42,320
Speaker 1: story is significant less colorful than The Wicked Witch of

1759
01:35:42,360 --> 01:35:46,639
Speaker 1: the West, and it's significantly more interesting that Billy Burke,

1760
01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:49,160
Speaker 1: the actress, was fifty four years old at the time

1761
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:53,400
Speaker 1: of filming and looks incredible for a nineteen thirty eight.

1762
01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:56,880
Speaker 1: Fifty four year old, she looks incredible. People were like

1763
01:35:57,000 --> 01:35:59,280
Speaker 1: sixteen back then, and they looked worse than we do.

1764
01:36:01,960 --> 01:36:04,840
Speaker 1: Fifty four. She looked like in her thirties. My god,

1765
01:36:05,080 --> 01:36:08,040
Speaker 1: I thought twenties. Well, film is forgiving. But you know,

1766
01:36:08,160 --> 01:36:10,160
Speaker 1: she's a full eighteen years older. That she is a

1767
01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:13,439
Speaker 1: full legal adult in the US, is older than the

1768
01:36:13,479 --> 01:36:16,680
Speaker 1: Wicked Witch. It's interesting because the age thing had been

1769
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:19,120
Speaker 1: a sticking point for her. A few years earlier, she'd

1770
01:36:19,160 --> 01:36:23,560
Speaker 1: been married to a theater impress, Arrio Florenz Ziegfield The

1771
01:36:23,680 --> 01:36:27,519
Speaker 1: Ziegfield Follies review as a Broadway theater, et cetera. It's

1772
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:30,920
Speaker 1: just google. Zigfield probably won't bring up Nazi for at

1773
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:33,800
Speaker 1: least a few more years. When his life was getting

1774
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:39,439
Speaker 1: the big screen by somebody criticized this online biopic.

1775
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:42,960
Speaker 7: Which makes sense, but it doesn't. It's not easy as musical,

1776
01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:45,519
Speaker 7: it's not as it's not as tripping off. The time

1777
01:36:46,320 --> 01:36:48,519
Speaker 7: when his life was getting the big screen biopic treatment

1778
01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:52,200
Speaker 7: in the thirties, Burke was deemed too old to play herself,

1779
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:55,439
Speaker 7: which obviously hard pill to swallow.

1780
01:36:55,640 --> 01:36:58,960
Speaker 2: Presumably she went to a killer plastic search after that.

1781
01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:01,920
Speaker 1: Dude plastic surch back this day. It was just like

1782
01:37:02,200 --> 01:37:05,439
Speaker 1: shoving asbestos under your face and covering you with like

1783
01:37:05,479 --> 01:37:09,599
Speaker 1: a mentally disabled person's skin that they had bought from

1784
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:14,960
Speaker 1: a guy on skid row, Like, come on, is that

1785
01:37:15,080 --> 01:37:18,160
Speaker 1: too much? No, that's probably right on the money.

1786
01:37:18,680 --> 01:37:21,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, And now we got to talk about the wizard.

1787
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:25,880
Speaker 1: If ever there was a whiz there, stop it, if

1788
01:37:26,040 --> 01:37:26,599
Speaker 1: stop it?

1789
01:37:26,720 --> 01:37:29,320
Speaker 2: If ever there was a whiz there was the Wizard

1790
01:37:29,320 --> 01:37:32,720
Speaker 2: of Oz is one because because because he was from Chicago,

1791
01:37:34,439 --> 01:37:36,920
Speaker 2: I forgot he was from Chicago. I forgot about the

1792
01:37:36,920 --> 01:37:38,280
Speaker 2: whole element that he brought it up.

1793
01:37:39,040 --> 01:37:42,640
Speaker 1: It gets worse because in Wicked he date rapes the

1794
01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:47,519
Speaker 1: Wicked Witches mom spoilers. Oh well, in the book, it's

1795
01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:50,920
Speaker 1: actually interesting. In the book, Gregory Maguire goes quite out

1796
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:53,600
Speaker 1: of his way to point out that Alphabe's mom is

1797
01:37:53,640 --> 01:37:57,640
Speaker 1: a real hoe, including cucking her husband, who is a

1798
01:37:57,680 --> 01:38:02,559
Speaker 1: preacher with a literal itinerant glass blower while her husband

1799
01:38:02,640 --> 01:38:06,439
Speaker 1: is home. So the fact that the wizard comes by

1800
01:38:06,520 --> 01:38:09,320
Speaker 1: and like and it's also like she's also like a

1801
01:38:09,479 --> 01:38:11,840
Speaker 1: like a drug addict, Like there's like magic berries or

1802
01:38:11,880 --> 01:38:14,040
Speaker 1: something and take away your pain, and she like eats

1803
01:38:14,080 --> 01:38:16,840
Speaker 1: a lot of them and drinks constantly. This is a

1804
01:38:16,840 --> 01:38:19,919
Speaker 1: whole bit in there about like just chapters upon chapters

1805
01:38:19,960 --> 01:38:24,519
Speaker 1: of Alphaba's mom being like even her grandmother, I guess

1806
01:38:24,600 --> 01:38:26,519
Speaker 1: is like, well, you're kind of a slut, aren't you, dear.

1807
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:30,800
Speaker 1: You don't even actually know who the father of Alphaba is, right,

1808
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:33,000
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, no, I guess not. I am

1809
01:38:33,080 --> 01:38:37,720
Speaker 1: kind of a hoe. It's just insane, Gregory maguire, You're

1810
01:38:37,800 --> 01:38:38,960
Speaker 1: you're crazy for that one.

1811
01:38:39,920 --> 01:38:41,880
Speaker 2: How have we made it this far without discussing the

1812
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:44,880
Speaker 2: titular Wizard of Oz. He was played by veteran character

1813
01:38:44,920 --> 01:38:47,880
Speaker 2: actor Dan HIDEA wait, I'm just getting in my ear

1814
01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:50,799
Speaker 2: that that's wrong. It's actually veteran character actor Frank Morgan.

1815
01:38:51,160 --> 01:38:53,639
Speaker 2: I can see you liking Frank Morgan. Just vibe wise.

1816
01:38:54,360 --> 01:38:56,000
Speaker 1: He's Oh no, I was like, you see the guy

1817
01:38:56,040 --> 01:39:01,080
Speaker 1: who played the Riddler, that was Frank. Yeah, folks, here's

1818
01:39:01,120 --> 01:39:04,080
Speaker 1: a handymnic for confusing Frank Morgan and Frank Fortune. No,

1819
01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:04,960
Speaker 1: I'm kidding, I don't have that.

1820
01:39:06,120 --> 01:39:08,240
Speaker 2: Frank Morgan shows up a number of times in the film,

1821
01:39:08,240 --> 01:39:11,160
Speaker 2: playing multiple roles. In addition to the Great and Powerful

1822
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:15,360
Speaker 2: Oz and his Kansas equivalent, Professor Marvel, he plays the

1823
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:17,320
Speaker 2: Cabby with the Horse of a different color, who was

1824
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:19,720
Speaker 2: memorably portrayed by me in two thousand and four and

1825
01:39:19,760 --> 01:39:22,720
Speaker 2: show of a regional high school, the guard at the

1826
01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:26,439
Speaker 2: Wizard's palace, and a gatekeeper. The reason they had Frank

1827
01:39:26,439 --> 01:39:28,760
Speaker 2: Morgan play all these different roles is because producers were

1828
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:32,760
Speaker 2: originally going after WC. Fields to play the Wizard, and

1829
01:39:32,800 --> 01:39:34,920
Speaker 2: they wanted to offer a more screen time in order

1830
01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:38,080
Speaker 2: to coax him into doing the movie. This ultimately failed

1831
01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:41,519
Speaker 2: and Fields passed. I think I read that MGM couldn't

1832
01:39:41,560 --> 01:39:42,840
Speaker 2: meet his fee, So.

1833
01:39:42,920 --> 01:39:43,519
Speaker 1: Yes, WC.

1834
01:39:43,640 --> 01:39:45,960
Speaker 2: Fields ended up passing on the role or roles, i

1835
01:39:45,960 --> 01:39:48,400
Speaker 2: should say, and they were all passed down to Frank Morgan,

1836
01:39:48,439 --> 01:39:49,640
Speaker 2: who apparently.

1837
01:39:49,320 --> 01:39:50,719
Speaker 1: Was a real hoot.

1838
01:39:51,720 --> 01:39:54,639
Speaker 2: As you mentioned, he showed up to the set carrying

1839
01:39:54,640 --> 01:39:58,360
Speaker 2: a briefcase that contained a portable mini bar ray Boulder

1840
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:00,720
Speaker 2: would recall, no matter how many times retreat it to

1841
01:40:00,760 --> 01:40:03,599
Speaker 2: the black briefcase. He was never less than a gentleman,

1842
01:40:04,080 --> 01:40:06,759
Speaker 2: although when he tried to stop drinking, he was short

1843
01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:10,200
Speaker 2: tempered and irritable. I guess now that I read out aloud,

1844
01:40:10,240 --> 01:40:14,400
Speaker 2: that's not great among us. There was apparently one incident

1845
01:40:14,400 --> 01:40:18,160
Speaker 2: where director Victor Fleming confronted a grumpy Morgan telling him

1846
01:40:18,160 --> 01:40:23,440
Speaker 2: to drink more so he'd be more tolerable. Oh okay, Hollywood,

1847
01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:26,640
Speaker 2: I mean there were feeding pills to Judy Garland, I mean,

1848
01:40:26,680 --> 01:40:30,360
Speaker 2: what do you expect. One of the most frequently cited

1849
01:40:30,360 --> 01:40:32,680
Speaker 2: pieces of lore surrounding the making of the Wizard of

1850
01:40:32,680 --> 01:40:35,599
Speaker 2: Oz needs to be taken with a handful of salt,

1851
01:40:35,640 --> 01:40:37,880
Speaker 2: but it's so good that I feel compelled to print

1852
01:40:37,880 --> 01:40:41,439
Speaker 2: the legend. The tattered coat that Professor Marvel wears at

1853
01:40:41,479 --> 01:40:44,440
Speaker 2: the start of the film was purchased by MGM customers

1854
01:40:44,479 --> 01:40:47,880
Speaker 2: who scoured local thrift stores searching for just the right

1855
01:40:47,960 --> 01:40:51,560
Speaker 2: blend of shabby chic for him. When they examined the

1856
01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:54,400
Speaker 2: jacket during a fitting with Frank Morgan, they discovered a

1857
01:40:54,479 --> 01:40:57,960
Speaker 2: name tag stitched inside the garment reading L Frank Baum.

1858
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:04,760
Speaker 2: Uction company supposedly contacted Baum's widow and I guess even

1859
01:41:04,800 --> 01:41:08,559
Speaker 2: his tailor too, who confirmed that the jacket did indeed

1860
01:41:08,640 --> 01:41:12,320
Speaker 2: belong to the original Wizard of Oz author Wow. The

1861
01:41:12,360 --> 01:41:15,240
Speaker 2: widow had donated its good will following his death, and

1862
01:41:15,240 --> 01:41:19,040
Speaker 2: then I guess the Hollywood costumers stumbled on it, but

1863
01:41:19,080 --> 01:41:21,240
Speaker 2: then the production gifted it back to her once the

1864
01:41:21,320 --> 01:41:26,720
Speaker 2: movie wrapped. Now, in all likelihood, this is probably garbage

1865
01:41:26,720 --> 01:41:29,599
Speaker 2: spun by the promotional team. This was the era when

1866
01:41:29,840 --> 01:41:32,320
Speaker 2: producers of like the movie Lifeboat.

1867
01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:33,920
Speaker 1: Is that a Hitchcock movie? I think it was a

1868
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:34,799
Speaker 1: Hitchcock movie.

1869
01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:36,960
Speaker 2: They told the press that the lifeboat used in the

1870
01:41:36,960 --> 01:41:39,719
Speaker 2: film was taken from the Titanic, which was not true.

1871
01:41:39,720 --> 01:41:45,200
Speaker 2: They were all hucksters and carnival barkers. These guys, anyhow,

1872
01:41:45,320 --> 01:41:49,000
Speaker 2: what is true? And this is an equally wild connection.

1873
01:41:49,200 --> 01:41:51,880
Speaker 2: The carriage driven by the horse of a different color

1874
01:41:51,920 --> 01:41:54,800
Speaker 2: horse when Dorothy and her friends get to Oz was

1875
01:41:54,840 --> 01:41:58,200
Speaker 2: originally made for Abraham Lincoln and presented to him as

1876
01:41:58,240 --> 01:42:01,840
Speaker 2: a gift during the Civil War. There's actually a handwritten

1877
01:42:01,880 --> 01:42:04,280
Speaker 2: note on the frame of the carriage that reads A

1878
01:42:04,439 --> 01:42:07,439
Speaker 2: Lincoln June eighth, eighteen sixty three.

1879
01:42:07,560 --> 01:42:08,759
Speaker 1: Isn't that nuts? Damn?

1880
01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:12,400
Speaker 2: Did MGM throw that out too? I think they burned

1881
01:42:12,400 --> 01:42:16,240
Speaker 2: it for gone with the wind. Actually it's in some

1882
01:42:16,479 --> 01:42:18,600
Speaker 2: museum I did. I googled it and saw it. I

1883
01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:21,559
Speaker 2: forget where it might be the Ford Museum, I forget where.

1884
01:42:23,000 --> 01:42:23,320
Speaker 1: Well.

1885
01:42:23,479 --> 01:42:25,559
Speaker 2: No discussion of the Wizard of Oz cast would be

1886
01:42:25,600 --> 01:42:29,840
Speaker 2: complete without mentioning the Munchkins, a term that I suspect

1887
01:42:29,960 --> 01:42:32,519
Speaker 2: is problematic, but I don't know what else to call them,

1888
01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:36,559
Speaker 2: ladies and gentlemen, the munchkins, the aristocrats. There were one

1889
01:42:36,640 --> 01:42:40,320
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty four adults employed as Denizen's of munchkin Land,

1890
01:42:40,760 --> 01:42:43,479
Speaker 2: as well as somewhere between four and a dozen children.

1891
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:47,080
Speaker 2: Many of these adults were members of the Austrian Leopold

1892
01:42:47,240 --> 01:42:53,320
Speaker 2: Singers vaudeville troupe known by the extremely outdated name Singers Midgets.

1893
01:42:54,760 --> 01:42:56,439
Speaker 1: Uh, he owned them.

1894
01:42:56,640 --> 01:43:00,320
Speaker 2: I think they were contracted to work for him.

1895
01:43:00,680 --> 01:43:04,960
Speaker 1: Okay, question mark? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

1896
01:43:05,040 --> 01:43:06,960
Speaker 2: It's worth noting that The Wizard of Oz was filmed

1897
01:43:06,960 --> 01:43:10,439
Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty eight, when Hitler's regime had consolidated power

1898
01:43:10,479 --> 01:43:13,160
Speaker 2: in Germany and Austria, and many of the Munchkins had

1899
01:43:13,240 --> 01:43:16,439
Speaker 2: joined Singer's troop as a way to escape the Nazis.

1900
01:43:16,200 --> 01:43:17,919
Speaker 1: And immigrate to the United States.

1901
01:43:18,680 --> 01:43:20,880
Speaker 2: As a result of this, many of the Munchins didn't

1902
01:43:20,880 --> 01:43:23,519
Speaker 2: speak English, and most of their voices were dubbed by

1903
01:43:23,560 --> 01:43:26,960
Speaker 2: American actors in post sometimes was sped up.

1904
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:31,160
Speaker 1: Tape to you know, get the whole Munchkin effect. Actor

1905
01:43:31,200 --> 01:43:34,400
Speaker 1: Billy Curtis, who is an uncredited Munchkin in Wizard of Oz,

1906
01:43:34,479 --> 01:43:37,960
Speaker 1: but who also he worked quite a lot, including the

1907
01:43:38,040 --> 01:43:45,720
Speaker 1: voice of Mayor mccheese when that's amazing, he voiced what

1908
01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:47,639
Speaker 1: do you want for me? He voiced Mayor mccheese. It's

1909
01:43:47,640 --> 01:43:52,680
Speaker 1: on his Wikipedia page. So he alleged that Singer had

1910
01:43:52,720 --> 01:43:57,519
Speaker 1: a reputation for quote cheating his employees during the filming

1911
01:43:57,560 --> 01:43:59,880
Speaker 1: of Wizard of Oz. Singer reportedly kept half of his

1912
01:44:00,040 --> 01:44:05,280
Speaker 1: performers weekly pay and some of the uh ooh god,

1913
01:44:05,360 --> 01:44:08,880
Speaker 1: this gets so weird. His troop members often spoke positively

1914
01:44:08,920 --> 01:44:11,439
Speaker 1: of him. Nita Krebs said that he always treated his

1915
01:44:11,520 --> 01:44:16,240
Speaker 1: people fine, and Grace Williams said, in language that alarmingly

1916
01:44:16,320 --> 01:44:19,800
Speaker 1: mirrors that of people talking about slave owners, said he

1917
01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:22,719
Speaker 1: had private tutors to give them an education. He treated

1918
01:44:22,760 --> 01:44:27,000
Speaker 1: them fine and gave them beautiful hotel suites. Oh that said,

1919
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:29,960
Speaker 1: it must be known that a number of Singers employees

1920
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:33,120
Speaker 1: referred to their manager as Papa. They were disbanded in

1921
01:44:33,160 --> 01:44:36,640
Speaker 1: the mid forties. Apparently many joined Ringling Brothers, Barnum and

1922
01:44:36,680 --> 01:44:39,320
Speaker 1: Bailey Circus or returned to Europe.

1923
01:44:39,479 --> 01:44:41,519
Speaker 2: How about that? That is quite a thing. I did

1924
01:44:41,520 --> 01:44:43,559
Speaker 2: not dig as deep into that as you did.

1925
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:48,040
Speaker 1: I just never trust the Viennese, you know.

1926
01:44:49,880 --> 01:44:54,200
Speaker 2: Well, on the plus side, they really got the full

1927
01:44:54,479 --> 01:44:58,479
Speaker 2: Golden Age of Hollywood treatment on this production. Each member

1928
01:44:58,479 --> 01:45:01,040
Speaker 2: of the one hundred and twenty plus group had their

1929
01:45:01,080 --> 01:45:06,680
Speaker 2: own unique hair and costume design, which rules overall. Customers

1930
01:45:06,720 --> 01:45:10,439
Speaker 2: designed and sewed three thousand, two hundred and ten.

1931
01:45:10,360 --> 01:45:11,880
Speaker 1: Outfits for this movie.

1932
01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:16,960
Speaker 2: Is that insane less awesome. Apparently, one of the Munchkin

1933
01:45:17,040 --> 01:45:19,439
Speaker 2: actors got stuck on a toilet for forty five minutes

1934
01:45:19,479 --> 01:45:22,960
Speaker 2: on set, which led to MGM hiring attendance to help

1935
01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:25,320
Speaker 2: them on and off the toilets throughout the remainder of

1936
01:45:25,400 --> 01:45:31,760
Speaker 2: the production. Ah yeah, yeah. They were famously put up

1937
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:36,040
Speaker 2: at the Culver Hotel near the MGM lot. John Wayne

1938
01:45:36,320 --> 01:45:39,400
Speaker 2: had won the hotel from Charlie Chaplin in a poker game,

1939
01:45:40,200 --> 01:45:43,120
Speaker 2: and reportedly you can still see the studs on the

1940
01:45:43,160 --> 01:45:46,040
Speaker 2: floor of his personal suite, where he had a circular

1941
01:45:46,640 --> 01:45:52,160
Speaker 2: and possibly rotating bed installed, to which I say, gross pilgrim.

1942
01:45:52,520 --> 01:45:54,200
Speaker 1: They don't want to take a little light out on

1943
01:45:54,240 --> 01:45:55,479
Speaker 1: my rotating bed.

1944
01:45:56,320 --> 01:45:58,320
Speaker 2: I don't understand the rotating bed thing.

1945
01:45:58,640 --> 01:46:00,720
Speaker 1: Is it just because I'm from New England? It's because

1946
01:46:00,840 --> 01:46:02,960
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know, you want to get nauseous while

1947
01:46:02,960 --> 01:46:07,920
Speaker 1: you're us your head spinning, baby, I don't know, dude,

1948
01:46:08,400 --> 01:46:10,519
Speaker 1: it seems like you would. I didn't have like a

1949
01:46:10,560 --> 01:46:13,240
Speaker 1: bed larger than a twin until I was like twenty eight.

1950
01:46:16,400 --> 01:46:18,920
Speaker 2: The vibrating bed thing makes slightly more sense.

1951
01:46:19,400 --> 01:46:23,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, those are just the magic fingers. Never actually

1952
01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:27,280
Speaker 1: been in a place that had those m on tour.

1953
01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:30,559
Speaker 1: I feel like you would have we would have. No,

1954
01:46:30,720 --> 01:46:33,519
Speaker 1: that's luxury. Hotels are luxury. That's true.

1955
01:46:34,040 --> 01:46:35,920
Speaker 2: Well, as we mentioned earlier, there are all sorts of

1956
01:46:35,960 --> 01:46:38,160
Speaker 2: rumors of what the one hundred and twenty four Munchkins

1957
01:46:38,160 --> 01:46:43,120
Speaker 2: got up to with the Culver Hotel on their own time, benders, carousing, orgies,

1958
01:46:43,160 --> 01:46:45,960
Speaker 2: et cetera. Many of these tales were stoked by Judy

1959
01:46:46,040 --> 01:46:49,000
Speaker 2: Garland herself, as she said during an appearance on Jack

1960
01:46:49,040 --> 01:46:51,640
Speaker 2: Parr's talk show a few years before her death. They

1961
01:46:51,680 --> 01:46:54,120
Speaker 2: were drunks, one of them. It was about forty. A

1962
01:46:54,240 --> 01:46:57,160
Speaker 2: gentleman asked me for dinner, and I couldn't say I

1963
01:46:57,200 --> 01:46:59,720
Speaker 2: can't because you're a midget. I just said no, my

1964
01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:02,599
Speaker 2: mother would like it. The man replied, Ah, come on,

1965
01:47:02,720 --> 01:47:05,240
Speaker 2: bring your ma too. They put them all in one

1966
01:47:05,240 --> 01:47:07,960
Speaker 2: hotel in Culver City and they got smashed every night.

1967
01:47:08,360 --> 01:47:11,759
Speaker 2: They picked them up in butterfly nets. This assessment has

1968
01:47:11,880 --> 01:47:15,760
Speaker 2: perhaps not surprisingly, been challenged by many of the actors themselves.

1969
01:47:16,080 --> 01:47:18,760
Speaker 2: In two thousand and nine, Margaret pedel GRENI, one of

1970
01:47:18,760 --> 01:47:22,320
Speaker 2: the last surviving Munchkins, told The Independent there were a

1971
01:47:22,320 --> 01:47:23,680
Speaker 2: lot of them who'd like to go out and have

1972
01:47:23,720 --> 01:47:26,560
Speaker 2: a few drinks, but nothing got out of hand. Everyone

1973
01:47:26,600 --> 01:47:29,200
Speaker 2: was having a good time and enjoying themselves. There was

1974
01:47:29,240 --> 01:47:32,320
Speaker 2: no rowdiness or anything like that. And those stories are

1975
01:47:32,439 --> 01:47:36,559
Speaker 2: very upsetting. Judy Garland upset. Margaret Pellgreene, I don't like that.

1976
01:47:37,439 --> 01:47:37,639
Speaker 1: No.

1977
01:47:38,280 --> 01:47:42,160
Speaker 2: By most credible accounts, they behaved with utmost professionalism despite

1978
01:47:42,160 --> 01:47:45,320
Speaker 2: their lack of experience in Hollywood. But these stories are

1979
01:47:45,360 --> 01:47:47,759
Speaker 2: persisted for decades, and it even led to a movie,

1980
01:47:48,120 --> 01:47:51,559
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one's Under the Rainbow starring Carrie Fisher and

1981
01:47:51,640 --> 01:47:55,600
Speaker 2: Chevy Chase, which details the munchkins alleged exploits at the

1982
01:47:55,600 --> 01:47:56,360
Speaker 2: Culver Hotel.

1983
01:47:57,200 --> 01:47:59,400
Speaker 1: I've never seen that of you, No, I just want

1984
01:47:59,439 --> 01:48:00,479
Speaker 1: to let them have fun.

1985
01:48:00,760 --> 01:48:04,719
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, but not assault sixteen year old Judy Garland.

1986
01:48:05,000 --> 01:48:06,599
Speaker 1: Well there's that. Well.

1987
01:48:06,640 --> 01:48:10,200
Speaker 2: Despite these slanderous rumors, most of the Munchkin performers cherished

1988
01:48:10,240 --> 01:48:13,000
Speaker 2: their time on the set. For many, it was the

1989
01:48:13,040 --> 01:48:16,120
Speaker 2: first time they were surrounded by people like themselves, and

1990
01:48:16,160 --> 01:48:20,200
Speaker 2: it led to the formation of lifelong friendships and even marriages.

1991
01:48:20,640 --> 01:48:24,360
Speaker 2: Aw According to activist Billy Bardy, this gathering of little

1992
01:48:24,360 --> 01:48:26,920
Speaker 2: people on set led to the formation of the what

1993
01:48:27,040 --> 01:48:29,840
Speaker 2: was then known as the Midgets of America advocacy group

1994
01:48:30,120 --> 01:48:34,080
Speaker 2: now known as Little People of America. The actors themselves

1995
01:48:34,160 --> 01:48:38,880
Speaker 2: went on to lead fascinating lives. Case in point, Myhard Rabe,

1996
01:48:39,400 --> 01:48:42,200
Speaker 2: who played the Corner of munchkin Land. He went on

1997
01:48:42,240 --> 01:48:45,240
Speaker 2: to become reportedly the shortest licensed pilot.

1998
01:48:44,960 --> 01:48:46,000
Speaker 1: During World War Two.

1999
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:49,160
Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah, he was three feet tall when Oz

2000
01:48:49,240 --> 01:48:51,400
Speaker 2: was shot, but then he grew another foot, which I

2001
01:48:51,400 --> 01:48:55,120
Speaker 2: don't really totally understand how that works. Okay, I guess

2002
01:48:55,160 --> 01:48:57,200
Speaker 2: maybe he was god teens when the shot that was

2003
01:48:57,200 --> 01:48:57,719
Speaker 2: it of Oz.

2004
01:48:57,800 --> 01:48:58,080
Speaker 1: Oh ok.

2005
01:48:58,280 --> 01:49:00,920
Speaker 2: He toured the country for thirty years in the Oscar

2006
01:49:00,960 --> 01:49:06,160
Speaker 2: meyer Wiedermobile promoting hot dogs. As quote little Oscar the

2007
01:49:06,280 --> 01:49:10,719
Speaker 2: world's smallest chef. He married a cigarette girl remember those,

2008
01:49:11,160 --> 01:49:15,000
Speaker 2: named Marie, and for fifty years they were married until

2009
01:49:15,000 --> 01:49:17,680
Speaker 2: she was killed in a car accident in the nineties.

2010
01:49:18,640 --> 01:49:21,599
Speaker 1: I'd heard on the Dearly Departed podcast.

2011
01:49:21,080 --> 01:49:24,000
Speaker 2: That he accidentally ran her over. I've been unable to

2012
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:27,760
Speaker 2: find sources to confirm this. In two thousand and five,

2013
01:49:27,840 --> 01:49:31,400
Speaker 2: he released a book called Memories of a Munchkin and

2014
01:49:31,560 --> 01:49:35,160
Speaker 2: illustrated walk down the Yellow Brick Road. He spent his

2015
01:49:35,200 --> 01:49:37,920
Speaker 2: final years in a retirement home and kept a signed

2016
01:49:37,960 --> 01:49:41,400
Speaker 2: photograph of Judy Garland near his bed that read four

2017
01:49:41,520 --> 01:49:44,840
Speaker 2: mine heard a perfect coroner and person two.

2018
01:49:45,760 --> 01:49:47,440
Speaker 1: Oh, that's heartbreaking.

2019
01:49:47,800 --> 01:49:50,040
Speaker 2: He died in April twenty ten at the age of

2020
01:49:50,120 --> 01:49:50,719
Speaker 2: ninety four.

2021
01:49:51,560 --> 01:49:53,360
Speaker 1: Little man, great big Heart. Yes.

2022
01:49:54,000 --> 01:49:57,280
Speaker 2: The last surviving adult Munchkin was Jerry Marin, who was

2023
01:49:57,320 --> 01:49:59,240
Speaker 2: a member of the Lollipop Guild. He was the one

2024
01:49:59,240 --> 01:50:04,080
Speaker 2: who held out the life lollipop to Judy, hailing from Lynn, Massachusetts, Baby,

2025
01:50:05,040 --> 01:50:08,360
Speaker 2: he died in twenty eighteen at the age of ninety eight,

2026
01:50:08,840 --> 01:50:11,320
Speaker 2: and to date, as far as I'm aware, there's only

2027
01:50:11,360 --> 01:50:13,639
Speaker 2: two actors from The Wizard of Oz who are conferring

2028
01:50:13,680 --> 01:50:16,920
Speaker 2: to be living. One is Priscilla Montgomery Clark, who is

2029
01:50:17,000 --> 01:50:19,320
Speaker 2: nine years old when she played at Munchkin, and the

2030
01:50:19,400 --> 01:50:22,920
Speaker 2: other is Valrie Lee Shepherd who is eight years old.

2031
01:50:23,040 --> 01:50:26,759
Speaker 2: But we also have to give honorable mention to Karen

2032
01:50:27,120 --> 01:50:31,639
Speaker 2: marsh Dahl, who served as Judy Garland's stand in. Those

2033
01:50:31,680 --> 01:50:33,600
Speaker 2: are her feet that you see when Judy taps the

2034
01:50:33,680 --> 01:50:36,519
Speaker 2: heels of his ruby slippers together. She was nineteen years

2035
01:50:36,560 --> 01:50:39,320
Speaker 2: old during this production and she's currently one hundred and

2036
01:50:39,360 --> 01:50:42,720
Speaker 2: five Good God, and she will turn God willing one

2037
01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:48,360
Speaker 2: hundred and six in April. Well, folks, that is the

2038
01:50:48,479 --> 01:50:51,360
Speaker 2: rundown of the cast of The Wizard of Oz. But

2039
01:50:51,439 --> 01:50:53,760
Speaker 2: we are about two hours in and we haven't even

2040
01:50:53,760 --> 01:50:55,880
Speaker 2: got to the production yet, so we're gonna save that

2041
01:50:56,360 --> 01:50:57,840
Speaker 2: for a part two. We're going to take a pitch

2042
01:50:57,880 --> 01:51:00,879
Speaker 2: from the Wicked playbook and divide it the two parts.

2043
01:51:01,320 --> 01:51:03,320
Speaker 1: Jordan and I are gonna get way too skinny, and

2044
01:51:03,320 --> 01:51:05,920
Speaker 1: I'm kind of gonna have a kind of will vayre

2045
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:08,240
Speaker 1: one't they situation on the red carpet that happening that

2046
01:51:08,320 --> 01:51:09,960
Speaker 1: you people are really gonna be interesting?

2047
01:51:11,920 --> 01:51:14,559
Speaker 2: Yes, So come back next time for tails from the

2048
01:51:14,720 --> 01:51:18,479
Speaker 2: set and production and the aftermath of The Wizard of Oz.

2049
01:51:18,680 --> 01:51:20,840
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. As always, folks, we will be

2050
01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:24,400
Speaker 1: back to a regular rhythm. We promise. Jordan don't get

2051
01:51:24,520 --> 01:51:29,519
Speaker 1: sick again. America doesn't let you do that. We'll see

2052
01:51:29,600 --> 01:51:31,040
Speaker 1: next time. Thank you, folks.

2053
01:51:31,600 --> 01:51:36,880
Speaker 5: Ogle's gotten no love to spare.

2054
01:51:38,439 --> 01:51:41,679
Speaker 1: Music and he's glad about his lands.

2055
01:51:41,800 --> 01:52:11,920
Speaker 4: Make the show Fu Sack Guns and None.

2056
01:52:00,880 --> 01:52:04,040
Speaker 1: Too Much Information was a production of iHeartRadio. The show's

2057
01:52:04,040 --> 01:52:06,839
Speaker 1: executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtog.

2058
01:52:07,040 --> 01:52:10,000
Speaker 2: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder June.

2059
01:52:10,160 --> 01:52:13,280
Speaker 1: The show was researched, written, and hosted by Jordan Runtog

2060
01:52:13,320 --> 01:52:14,400
Speaker 1: and Alex Heigel.

2061
01:52:14,240 --> 01:52:17,479
Speaker 2: With original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

2062
01:52:17,800 --> 01:52:19,840
Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

2063
01:52:19,920 --> 01:52:20,400
Speaker 1: us a review.

2064
01:52:20,680 --> 01:52:25,000
Speaker 2: For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

2065
01:52:25,200 --> 01:52:26,920
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,