1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: those of the authors and participants and do not necessarily 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: represent those of iHeart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: This series contains discussions of violence and sexual violence. Listener 5 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: discretion is advised. Previously an Algorithm journalist Thomas Hargrove warned 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: police in northwest Indiana that they might have a serial 7 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: killer and the loose. Starting in the nineteen nineties, we've 8 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: seen several women who were found strangled in or near 9 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: abandoned buildings, and four years later, after the murder of 10 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: Africa Hardy, police arrested Darren Vaughan and Detective Shaan Ford 11 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: began interrogating him. In your own words, what would you say? 12 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: Has brought you here today? Why do you think you 13 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: were arrested? Will say a hard Vaughn confessed to strangling 14 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: Africa Hardy, and he told Ford and Captain Hinojosa that 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: he had killed many more. How many people are you 16 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: responsible for killing? His lifetime or couldn't even two? Vaughan 17 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: took police to the body of one of his victims 18 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: to provide evidence for his murders, but he wanted to 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: make a deal. What are you trying to get out 20 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: of this? Before? On a birthday? From iHeart Radio and 21 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV. This is algorithm. I'm ben Kee Brick. At 22 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: one am on Sunday, October, Vaughan had just led investigators 23 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: to the body of Anneth Jones, and just as Vaughan 24 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: had described, they'd found her buried under a pile of 25 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: stuft animals in the basement of an abandoned building. It 26 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: appeared that Vaughan was a serial killer and his m 27 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: O was the same one that Hargrove's algorithm had identified 28 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: a hiller strangling women in Gary. But how many murders 29 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: was her responsible for and were any of them on 30 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: Hargrove's list. After police found anne jones body, they knew 31 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: the investigation was going to get big and they wanted 32 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: to keep Vaughan cooperating as long as they could. Detective 33 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,679 Speaker 1: Seawan Ford and Kelly Mickey convinced Vaughan to take them 34 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: to another body, and Vaughan guided them ten minutes north 35 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: to afforded up building on nineteen Avenue. Eerily, it was 36 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: next door to a house that had a banner advertising 37 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: Miss Deed's Hugs and Kisses Daycare. Here, Vaughan told detectives 38 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: they'd find another body lying in the garage covered in plywood. 39 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: He warned them to announce their presence before entering the 40 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: building in case someone was quote using the house, and 41 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: once again, detective found the body just where Von said 42 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: it would be, in the building's garage, under a pile 43 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 1: of plywood boards. This victim, later identified as Tiara Baby, 44 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: appeared to have been dead for months. She was wearing 45 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: a sweatshirt and jeans, and her body looked sunken in 46 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: because her flesh had putrified inside her clothes. Detective Mickey 47 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: tried to keep Von talking while she recorded on her 48 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: cell phone. The audio quality is rough, but you can 49 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: hear Detective Forward returning to the car and asking Van 50 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: to take them to one more body complete jagg Off. 51 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: I have a partner I worked with on regular basis 52 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: and he dreams of stuff like this. He asked Vaughan 53 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: to do it as a favor for his coworker. He 54 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: just got into path. Do you have another one? I 55 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: know it's dumb to ask, that's ins ridiculous. You're going 56 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: to take the stone? I one th right. I won't 57 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: point on all somebody. I hope you're prosecuted. Well, let 58 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: me tell you this. You do, you do one more 59 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: and you're definitely I'm a prosecutor's attention to why you 60 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: can't be we're supposed to. Vaughn said he'd been back 61 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: to the site where he left this body, and that 62 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: he thought a worker that was demolishing abandoned buildings in 63 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: the area might have come across this victim. So Ford 64 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: called the Gary Police Department to ask them if they 65 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: had found any bodies and the area of van was describing. 66 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 1: This is a girl. It's a girl. They're all girls. 67 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: They're all the guys. I can't give you all the 68 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: guys are jobs. I can't. You'll probably figure out you 69 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: guys who hired you know what. At this point, I 70 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: don't think anybody's interested in the hiring. Well, I know 71 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: one of them pass FBI ramifications. Believe the things will 72 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: be very interesting. They want to know how we got 73 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: to one of the federal faras. I don't know if 74 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: he's a federal Winds or fay it my dear cop. 75 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: I think he was an undercover cop. Yeah, I think 76 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: he's on the cover cop. You killed him? Yeah? And 77 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: then it's more than one person of all, so I 78 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: can't give you that boblem So how many women do 79 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 1: you thinkers throughout the area? Here? Me or that I 80 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: know personally either or okay, and that I know personally, 81 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: maybe thirties me, maybe Quail, thirteen or year and none 82 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: of them, no, mine don't get found. So I don't know. 83 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 1: Some of these bodies should have been found. In fact, 84 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: I know Gary found three, but since no DNA, no sex, 85 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: none of head, they'll never know who killed him. Person 86 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: to recap, Vaughn was now claiming he was responsible for 87 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: killing thirty teen women and Gary in just the last year. 88 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: Ford returns to the car and says Gary hadn't found 89 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: anybodies recently in the area of Vaughan had mentioned, Did 90 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: they say found me he hadn't heard of. Well, at 91 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: least we're not far from all right. That's now you're 92 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,559 Speaker 1: going a brawl away. As they drive to the next 93 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: crime scene. It's hard to tell Ford is trying to 94 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,799 Speaker 1: apply Vaughan for information, where if he's just making small talk. 95 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: Do you got any good drug robbery guys in the 96 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: streets that you must specialty? They don't have that specialty, 97 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: written no more, no best I know they don't report it. 98 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: Of course they don't. That's why it's the best crime. 99 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: Maybe he is just making conversation figuring it will pay 100 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: dividends later in the investigation. Now, I don't want to 101 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: be putting all this in your head. But I've already done. 102 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: I know. I've been all of Florida and sex since 103 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: that's Florida. That's where it really and it jumped off 104 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: big down there California. All I say, only stuff Indiana 105 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: or we'll be tied up for a long time. You 106 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: can take me on vacation, man, no on, stop my 107 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: wrist me and you will be my ties. So what 108 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: is the worst part about Like when you kill somebody, 109 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: like you're like part no. But I mean, like like 110 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: you said, you're moving that one girl down in the 111 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: basement and like she started leaking. What is it that 112 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: you're like, dad? But bless it she leaking? We take 113 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: them away from the murder site. I really don't care 114 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: if they leak, because you're not gonna find no evidence 115 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: on the murder site. It's all I'm saying. Oh yeah, 116 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: I hear you. On So is that why you move him? Right? 117 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: And how long did it take you before you started 118 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: moving them? I'll always move him tough to move right? 119 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: And at what age did somebody start teaching me the 120 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: first person should? Oh, you didn't do that alone. No, 121 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: somebody had to teach me. You know you don't. But 122 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: I didn't know if it was like, you know, something happened, 123 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, just happened. They arrived at 124 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: a third abandoned house. This one was a two story building. 125 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: At the top of the stairs, in a closet, police 126 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: found another body, and this time the body was skeletal 127 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: as it be for bo. Yeah, her bones are showing, 128 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: her skull is showing, saying, son of the other ones. 129 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: I couldn't bring you too, because y'all wouldn't be at 130 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: the tail. How what kills and does invation? You really 131 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: be for cold? Yeah, but at least the families could 132 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: have some peace, right. I gotta take you too once. 133 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: I know, like I'd like to say, mama's stays, I'm 134 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: taking all the MoMA's, These all mama's stakes, and these 135 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: keeping one's supposed to be killed. Okay, get other people 136 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: that are causing it? Said, they were pretty don exist 137 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: in the wrongs. Fie Long time. How many just between 138 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: me and you know? How many people you think keeps killing? Yeah? 139 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: Do you keep track? No? I know, I know. I 140 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: was upset when I found out there was a guy 141 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: who mixed I killed over five hundred. That upset because 142 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,599 Speaker 1: you haven't because I hadn't. Oh so you wanted to 143 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: kill five time? I want to kill five hundred. I 144 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: was just used to being in Geary. I was known 145 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: at one time the best it was a year. And 146 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: then when he was looking at history and started reading 147 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: that hundred for my reason murder stuff, that people a 148 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: whole lot of more murders, so how many things? Told him, Yeah, 149 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: I'm under the hundred. I know that under a hundreds. 150 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: Since you were nine, I'm right over a hundred. I've 151 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: had to be years. What thirteen this year? I have 152 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: way more than thirteen this year month. Wow. At first, 153 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: when I heard Vaughn's claim of three murders a month, 154 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: I thought Vaughan was again contradicting himself, because earlier he 155 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: said he'd only killed thirteen women in Gary that year. 156 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: But then I remembered he also said he'd killed men 157 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: as well, and people out of state, so he's not 158 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: necessarily being inconsistent here. Still, there's something about his tone 159 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: that makes me think he's embellishing his story. The investigation 160 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: was just beginning, though. The next day, officers continued their interrogation, 161 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: and the next night Vaughn led them to even more victims. 162 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: On October twenty, two, days after Vaughan's arrest and the 163 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: discovery of bodies and abandoned home, two press conferences were held. 164 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: My name is Karen Freeman Wilson. I'm Mayor of the 165 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: City of Gary, Indiana. We are here to discuss the 166 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: apprehension of a suspect who was in the custom of 167 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: the Hammond Police Department. This initially started with a murder 168 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: in the city of Hammond at Motel six. The Hammond 169 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: Police Department began an investigation which led them to a suspect. 170 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:33,719 Speaker 1: They began questioning him and learned that there were additional victims, 171 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: and he led them to the bodies of those victims. 172 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: Has there been any indication on how many victims may 173 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: be out there at this point, we are unsure of 174 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: the number. As of last night, he was continuing to 175 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: lead police to the bodies of victims as he made 176 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: any statements that they're all here. In GARYA I mean, 177 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: I know the one. We believe there may be people 178 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: in other parts of Northwest Indian to be a little 179 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: bit lord. The second press conference was held by the 180 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: Hammond Police Chief good afternoon. As a result of our investigation, 181 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 1: it is believed that the suspect is a registered sex 182 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 1: offender in the state of Texas, a forty three year 183 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 1: old resident of Gary by the name of Darren Van. 184 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: The investigations of at least six are ongoing. It is 185 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: possible that investigation will lead to more victims, so we 186 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 1: have to be careful about what we say at this point. 187 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: So I'll take at least a couple of time. We're 188 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: dealing with police. It could go back as far as 189 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: twenty years based on some statements we have and that's 190 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: yet to be coaberative. Ham And Police had found exactly 191 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:52,719 Speaker 1: what Hardgrive described in this letter as serial killer, strangling 192 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: women and Gary crimes going back to the nineties and 193 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: women's bodies left in abandoned billldings. A television production company 194 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: called me and they said, had you heard about Gary? 195 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: And I said what? And they told me all about 196 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: the arrest of Mr Van. He said he had been 197 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: active going back to the nineties and took them to 198 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: the scenes of abandoned buildings in Gary, Indiana, where they 199 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: recovered six previously unknown murder victims. So something I think 200 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: about sometimes is was there something I could have done better? 201 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: Because they weren't even looking and seven women died after 202 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: two thousand ten, I at least knew that there was 203 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: a serial killer active in Gary. Eventually, Vaughan was charged 204 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 1: with murdering seven women and Jones, Christine Williams, Suna Billingsley, 205 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: Tanya Gatwin, Tracy Martin, Tiera Beatty, and Africa Hardy. But 206 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: none of these seven victims were in hargross list. Hard 207 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: group had generated his list back in and the seven 208 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: murders that von had confess us too weren't cold cases. 209 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: They were all recent murders committed in the last year. 210 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: Some of the victims hadn't even been reported missing. This 211 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: was one of the aspects of the case that confused 212 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: me when I first learned about it. Vaughan had only 213 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: been charged for these recent murders, but according to the 214 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: press conference held shortly after Vaughan's arrest, Vaughan had alluded 215 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: to crimes going back twenty years and also In a 216 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: since deleted Facebook post, Hammond's mayor wrote that Vaughan had 217 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: admitted to quote a couple of homicides in Hammond back 218 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: in ninety four, and based on those statements, Hargrove became 219 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: convinced that Vaughan is responsible for at least some of 220 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: the murders his algorithm identified. How convinced are you that 221 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: this is the work of Van or another serial killer? 222 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: And kind of what what makes you think that? Well, 223 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: first of all, that's what he told Hammond police, that 224 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: he had been active going back to the mid nineties, 225 00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: and I would take him out his word that he 226 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: was responsible for some of these women who were found 227 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: in abandoned buildings. I think that's his them all, but 228 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: I don't have proof. When I started researching the case 229 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: and speaking to Hargrove, only a tiny trickle of information 230 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: had leaked out about Von's crimes. To try to avoid 231 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: biasing a jury, the judge put a gag order on 232 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: the case, preventing the lawyers involved, law enforcement or politicians 233 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: from discussing it publicly, and the trial faced delay after delay. 234 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: So for years, no one in the public, not even Hargrove, 235 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: knew the extent of Vaughan's crimes, or even what exactly 236 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: Vaughan had confessed to. Vaughan pled guilty to the seven murders, 237 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: but in a highly unusual move, the judge kept the 238 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: gag order in place after the trial ended, even though 239 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: Vaughan didn't seem interested in appealing the case. I'd never 240 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: heard of this happening before, and I began to wonder 241 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: if there was more to the story, something Lake County 242 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: was trying to cover up, but I also didn't want 243 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: to jump to conclusions. Yeah, it's interesting, So, yeah, there 244 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: there's a couple of statements in this press conference with 245 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: the police chief where it alludes to crimes that could 246 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: go back as far as twenty years. Then they kind 247 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: of put a gang order during the trial that then 248 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: justified not releasing information about his confession, even though the 249 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: case is now closed. So I'm still kind of in 250 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: the in the process of trying to get some of 251 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: that information. But you know, it almost feels like maybe 252 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: they did find some stuff and want to just sweep 253 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: it under the rug. I think that they were very 254 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: paranoid about making a reversible error. I couldn't tell you 255 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: more than that, I really don't know. What does that mean, 256 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: fear of reversible error, that maybe something about the way 257 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: les confession was obtained would be improper, yeah, or um 258 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: speculation that he's responsible for other murders beyond the step 259 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: for which he was convicted. I don't know. I don't understand. 260 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: Why do you have any theories as to why no 261 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: attempt has been made to link than to any of 262 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: these other murders, at least not to my knowledge. My 263 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: working theory is because you warned them about it, and 264 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: if it came out that indeed he was responsible for them, 265 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: that that could politically embarrassing that. I mean, that's that's 266 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 1: kind of just what in my head. But I have 267 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: no idea how people actually make these kinds of decisions. No, 268 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: that was the conversation I had with hard Grow before 269 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: I got my hands on Vond's confessions. So after him 270 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: and sent me the interrogations and police reports, I started 271 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: combing through the hours of audio and hundreds of pages 272 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: of documents. I was looking for any evidence that Vaughan 273 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: might be responsible for the crimes on Hargrow's list, But 274 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: also as I read and listened, I was trying to 275 00:17:54,040 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: figure out whether Von's confessions were even credible. The Hammond 276 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: Police Department had sent me twelve hours if Darren Vaughn's 277 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: recorded confessions, as well as dozens of interviews with Vaughn's 278 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: relatives and the friends and family of Vaughn's victims. As 279 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: I listened through them, I was especially curious to find 280 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: out what the Hammond Mayor had been referring to when 281 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: he said Vaughn had confessed to quote a couple of 282 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: homicides and Hammond in But I also wanted to know 283 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: how much I should trust Vaughan in the first place. 284 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: And as I kept listening through his interrogation, some of 285 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 1: his claims just sounded bizarre or grandiose. To try to 286 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: put vaughn story into context, I went back and re 287 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: listened to an interview I've done a couple of months earlier. 288 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: We created Darren. Darren at age six, was taken from 289 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: his mother put in even a worse situation. This is 290 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: Goeko Cossage, one of the public defenders who was assigned 291 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: to Vaughan's case. And then my name is pronounced Goeko Cossage. 292 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: It's like crotch itch, but it's costage um. When I 293 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: got your email. You know, you told me that the 294 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: gag order was still in place. So I'm curious kind 295 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: of like, what can you talk about? What can't you 296 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: talk about? Well, I think specifically I can certainly talk 297 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: about anything from the public record, and I can also 298 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: probably just kind of generically tell you a little bit 299 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: about Darren's background without getting into too many specifics. To 300 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: say the least Costage doesn't mince words. You have to 301 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: understand Darren Van was the product of his fourteen year 302 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: old mother being raped by the landlord. Cost It said 303 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: that when Von's mother gave birth to him in nineteen 304 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: seventy one, she was just fourteen years old. She had 305 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 1: three more daughters after that in very short order. So 306 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 1: this woman who was completely unequipped to probably have a pet, 307 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: had four children. When Vaughan was six, the Department of 308 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: Family and Children put him into foster care. For good 309 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,479 Speaker 1: five six years. He was passed around through foster homes. 310 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: Almost in every foster home he was mistreated, and then 311 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: an eight two, he got placed at Thelma Marshall. The 312 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: Thelma Marshall Children's Home was a residential institution for foster kids. 313 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: They had I think it was sixteen boys, sixteen girls. 314 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: Eight of the boys were small and the girls were small. 315 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 1: Eight to the boys were teenagers, eight of the girls 316 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: were teenagers. They would go to neighborhood schools. They would 317 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: just stay at the home. The basketball court there, and 318 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: he had stuff down in the basement as far as 319 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: a ping pong table or in a pool table. In 320 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: the bedrooms were upstairs, in the kitchen was upstairs. According 321 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: to Vaughan, things might have looked fine if you visited 322 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: during the day, but after dark it turned into a nightmare. 323 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: The adults would leave at five o'clock and at night 324 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: they would be left with the counselors who were and 325 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: they would go down in his hellhole of the basement 326 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: and they would have gladiator games where they would have 327 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: the kids square off and have to fight each other. 328 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: Darren told us when he was being disciplined, they would 329 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: put him in a completely dark room with the dog 330 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: that he would have to climb on the pool table 331 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,199 Speaker 1: and be up on the pool table pretty much all 332 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: night long, with his dog running around the outside of 333 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: the pool table barking at him to get at him. 334 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: When Von described his childhood to Detective Ford, he didn't 335 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: mention the years he'd spent living with the foster families 336 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: at all, but Vaughan said his time at the Thelma 337 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: marshal Um was formative. Where did you live as a 338 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: kid that you remember besides the boy's homes? That's all 339 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: that you know? That's all I remember that somebody had 340 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: to tell me family history when I came home because 341 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: I didn't like nobody to okay. I was hitting people 342 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: with objects, so they had to come over with some 343 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: reason for Okay, So you were, you were violent even 344 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: as a young young kid. What you're saying put to 345 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: be an environment where I had to be valid. So okay, 346 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: So due to this is that way you were originally taken? No, 347 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: I was. I was a kid. I had a violent 348 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: streeting me as a young young kid. But when you 349 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 1: go to the homes you deal with people. Is in 350 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: there for a criminal activity? What year do you think 351 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 1: you've got? How old do you think you are when 352 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: you went to the homes? I can tell you that's 353 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: the only place I remember is being home. Like when 354 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: I get depressed, I go there. I sit outside of 355 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: it really still today because my home it's not only 356 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: home I've ever known. That's insane. Well, what did you 357 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: go when? I understand what you're saying, but like it's 358 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: where I was made. Vaughn said that shortly after coming 359 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: to film and Marshall, one of the teenagers at the 360 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 1: home started targeting him. What did he do to mess 361 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: with you? You know, I'm trying to turn him into 362 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: a girl. Okay, So he was actually a predator. He's 363 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: trying to break and we don't really call them predators. 364 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: Y'all call them predators. We don't call them predators. What 365 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: would you call him? He's just what he is. That's 366 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: why terror. Everybody is what they is. Everybody has some 367 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: kind of busing thing. But Vaughan says, one of the 368 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: other kids, an eighteen year old, he went by big Ee, 369 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: found out about the team that was messing with. Vaughn 370 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: wanted to older kids older than you go to Obhi 371 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 1: and being his homeies. Gentleman, I remember it's Timo missing. 372 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: So the nailed him in home? Yeah? Are we always 373 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: asked jumping going on? There's always something going on in 374 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: the home. And then he came up missing later right, 375 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: it was ever found? When you say he's missing, when 376 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: I mean was he killed? Ya? Oh? Yeah? He was killed. 377 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: It was coming, It was coming. Fawn says that Big 378 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: E was a gangster disciple at g D, a member 379 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,199 Speaker 1: of the nationwide gang that had its nerve center in 380 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: nearby Chicago, and after saving Vaughan, BIGI recruited him to 381 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: join the gang. Remember Drew Elementary School. Biggie's hit Massy. 382 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: It's like, make sure you looked after because you're always 383 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: gonna be going somewhere doing something for somebody. You might 384 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: be the best guy right now, really best guy. How 385 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: come he had one of the best codes of honor. 386 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: I've never seeing him break a g D rule. He's 387 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: a really good guy. As long as you do funk 388 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: around where he believed in, he was perfectly safe. I 389 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: remember he was a star on the Roosevelt basketball squad. 390 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: But you quit, guess some kind of trouble, okay. Joining 391 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: the Gangster Disciples was a multi step process. The first step, 392 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: getting jumped in meant getting beat up by the other 393 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: members of the gang. And I got jumped and for 394 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: real elementary schools, do you remember you're jumping for reading? 395 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: Really busted arm messed up? Remember all that. Yeah. Vaughn 396 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 1: says that before long he was spending more time with 397 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: the gang than he did in school, and his new 398 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: recruits got further initiated into the gang. They would be 399 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,360 Speaker 1: asked to commit crimes, crimes that grew more and more violent. Now, 400 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: you said when you first became a g D that stuff. 401 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: You had an incident where you killed the first person 402 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: that you ever killed, right, and what made you kill him? 403 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: That's part of all being blessed in Chicago? What does 404 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: it mean to be blessed? You put on the books, 405 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: you can always call for get support if you need it. 406 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: You kind of like an official or member your official. Remember, 407 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: if you're not the own book, you're not really a member. 408 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: You're just sing you agg did you kill somebody specific 409 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: to get blessed in? I mean, I hear who they 410 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: told me to kill, and I really don't know who. 411 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 1: World didn't care, so they just gave me an assignment. Right, 412 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: But it wasn't enough for a recruit just to kill someone. 413 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: It was also how they acted after they'd done the deed. 414 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: Van brought this up with Officer Mickey the night he 415 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: was arrested. Now that the kids ever not want to 416 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: do it, you who have a choice, So like when 417 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: the kids do it for the first time, do they 418 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 1: flip out, like do you come from them? Or you 419 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: break down too much? If you're getting rid of black kills, 420 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: that's always been a gang thing. They can't take no chance. 421 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: And some of you spell in the bank, bill in 422 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: the vein for some keys y'all think are like random ers. 423 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: They're not random ers. Ideas something they can live with. 424 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: It started talking and start had to be get rid 425 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: of the gang that Von has been talking about. The 426 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: Gangster Disciples or g DS, was formed in Chicago in 427 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: nineteen four. The Gangster Disciples were founded by Larry Hoover. 428 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: At the time, he was serving a life sentence in 429 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: an Illinois prison for murder, but using coded messages, he 430 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: ran the gang's drug dealing and prostitution rackets from behind 431 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: bars for decades. Hoover created what he called the sixteen 432 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: Rules of proper behavior for the Disciples. These rules included 433 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: silence about gang business. They'd say, nothing will hurt the 434 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: duck but its own bill. Other rules prohibited homosexual rape, 435 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 1: using addictive drugs, and stealing from other gangster disciples. These 436 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: sixteen rules were to be followed strictly. If rules were 437 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: by related gang leaders would order punishments to be dealt 438 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: out by gang enforcers. The punishments could range from beatings 439 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: to death. Vaughn says he was taught how to kill 440 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 1: by the gang and became one of the gangs enforcers. 441 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: Von's lawyer, Cossage, says that as a public defender in 442 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: Lake County, Indiana, he's had many clients and gangs. You 443 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: can't even imagine, imagine what they went through in their lives. 444 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: You know, you can go ahead and talk about all 445 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: these gang manners and all these shootings and until you 446 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: you really break it down. You know, these kids are 447 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: eight nine years old and they live in these neighborhoods 448 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: where they're getting harassed and either they're gonna keep getting 449 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: picked on and keep getting beat up, or they're gonna 450 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: join a game, and they grow into these gangs, and 451 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: these gangs become their only family, and they do what 452 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: they're told. What never sees us to amaze me. You know, 453 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: they give you the Latin King Manifesto or the Gangster 454 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: Disciple Rules, whatever the hell they have, and like the 455 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: first page, first page says, I will never cooperate with 456 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: the police. I will never give evidence to the police, 457 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: or stay us to the police, that may implicate a brother. 458 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: But the sons of bitches on the very top, when 459 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: they get busted within forty eight hours, they are singing 460 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: like the loudest damn canaries you've ever heard, to save 461 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: their asses. They're telling them about murders they ordered, who 462 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: did them, to save their asses. And the guys on 463 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: the bottom never figure that out, never figure out, but 464 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: they're gonna get sold out by the guys on the top. 465 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: Fons lawyers wanted more information about fons early life and 466 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: gang involvement, so they tried to find out more information 467 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: about Big E. He was challenging though, because Von didn't 468 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: know Big EA's real name. We really really wanted to 469 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: track him down. We thought at one time it was 470 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: someone who played basketball and one of the local high 471 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: schools there, and he was on on the bench on 472 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: one of the state champ bionship teams, but that ended 473 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: up falling by the wayside. It wasn't him. We never 474 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: couldn't find him. The police were also interested in finding 475 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: Big E to verify Von's story and to investigate the 476 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: early murders Vaughan had mentioned. They asked Von's half brother 477 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: Reginald about it. Reginald new big e by a slightly 478 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: different name. Okay, his friend Big talk about him, a 479 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: big white girl in the homes gather him big whit 480 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: him big white being bad. But nobody in my family 481 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: knows being white. Nobody's ever seen big white. You know 482 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Come on, then it's not plausible? And 483 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: what is a fictional character? Because I dug further into 484 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: Vaughan's confessions, it was not at all this story I 485 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: was expecting. But I did discover or what I suspect 486 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: is the reason why authorities wanted to keep this case 487 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: quiet for so long. Next time on algorithm, be it 488 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: from the organic injury or something he had convinced himself. 489 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: There were episodes in Darren's life that he remembered completely 490 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: different than what we had incredible evidence for. All went 491 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: back out of control again. I never made it back 492 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: un Once you I don't know how to play with y'all, 493 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: y'all don't have the same or once you start killing again. 494 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: Now when you say abuse of like verbally, abuse of physically, 495 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: I don't recall all the different actually with all her 496 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: y'all probably caught me years ago this episode was written 497 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: and produced by me ben Kiebrick Algorithm is executive produced 498 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: by Alex Williams, Donald Albright, and Matt Frederick. Production assistance 499 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: in mixing by Eric Quintana. The music is by Makeup 500 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: and Vanity Set and Blue Dot Sessions. Thanks to Christina Dana, 501 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: Miranda Hawkins, Jamie Albright, Rima l. K Ali, Trevor Young, 502 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: and Josh Thane for their help and notes, and thanks 503 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: for listening. The story is only going to keep getting 504 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: crazier and soon I'm going to need you all to 505 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: help me solve some of the mysteries regarding this case. 506 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: Please help spread the word about this podcast, especially if 507 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: you have any friends in Indiana, Illinois, or Texas. I 508 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: hope that through this podcast we can shed some light 509 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: on some really important issues and maybe even bring justice 510 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: and closure to additional victims. If you do have any 511 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: information about Big E, Daryn Vaughan, where crimes that you 512 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: think might be related, or if you just have questions 513 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: you want addressed on the podcast, please call and leave 514 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: me a voicemail with your contact information at eight eight 515 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: five zero one three three zero nine. That's eight eight 516 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: five year one three three zero nine, or you can 517 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: also reach out to me on Twitter. I'm at ben 518 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: Underscore Keybrick. That's b E N Underscore k U E 519 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: b R I c H. Thanks