1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm editor keen to S. Gibson, joined today as always 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: by Josh Clark. Yes you are, Josh. I'm gonna turn 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: the tables on you a little bit. I know that 6 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 1: you usually like to ask me questions, but I have 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: one for you. Okay, what happened to Mordecai. Mordecai the Donkey, 8 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: Mode the Donkey. You know, I know what you're talking about. 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: Morrikai the Donkey, the the official first official live mascot 10 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: at the d n C, the Democratic National Convention. He 11 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: was debuted in January, right and then dropped off the 12 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: face of the planet. Ultimately. To answer your question, I 13 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: have no idea what happened to Mordecai. He may have 14 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: had an accident in the Grand Canyon that was covered 15 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: up by you know, uh, Democratic spinsters. I'm not sure. 16 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: I'm hoping Mordecai is okay, but I have not seen, 17 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: nor heard hide nor hair from him. If any of 18 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: you listening know what happened to Mordecai, I'm dying to 19 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: know if that little ass made it the Mile High City. 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: So especially Barack Obama. If you have time, if you 21 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: could just give me a call, that'd be fabulous. UM 22 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: and other news there. As far as I know, was 23 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,559 Speaker 1: never an elephant slated to appear at the Republican National 24 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: I hadn't. I hadn't heard anything about that. It was 25 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: all Mordecai and maybe maybe that's what it was. Maybe 26 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: you know, Mordecai was going to steal the spotlight and 27 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: the powers that be saday. Hey, if if the GOP 28 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: isn't going to have an elephant, you guys can't have 29 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: Mordecai there. Well, it's equal media coverage. It's actually a 30 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: law handed down with the FCC. Is that right, Yes, yeah, yeah, 31 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: there there's a loophole here there, but yeah, they they 32 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: they have to have equal media coverage four candidates. I 33 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: don't know that Um. Other mammals are are involved in 34 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: that at all, if they're if the SEC extended it 35 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: that far, but it could be a safe bet. I 36 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: would say, well, even without the mammals, those things were 37 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: zoos enough. There was a lot going on flying around. 38 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: So you've been paying attention to the to the conventions 39 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: I have, I certainly have the big question, Sarah Palin, 40 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: hair up, hair down? Who knows? Yeah, you never, You 41 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: never can't tell with her? Ken you no? But um, 42 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: did you find a little odd that that there was 43 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: going to be a donkey at the convention? Well, I'm 44 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: a petting zooficionado, So at any opportunity a live mammal 45 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: appears that I can scratch under its chin, that's fine 46 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: with me. But yeah, I get what you're saying. I mean, 47 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: these things aren't exactly austere ceremonies, but they are pretty serious. 48 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: It's a time for a business and so you have 49 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: to wonder why a donkey? Why would you lead a 50 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: bringing jackass into a national party conventions? We're talking about 51 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: mammals at the conventions. Oh wait, yes, so was I right? Yeah? 52 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. Now, Well you know, I mean, uh, 53 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: the donkeys not even the official um mascot of the 54 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: Democratic Party. Did you know that? I didn't know that. 55 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: But did you know that the GOP actually did at 56 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: one point adopt the elephant as its official mascot? True story? Okay, 57 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: so um, I had heard actually at one point in 58 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: time that neither party created this this symbol. They were 59 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: just kind of there and associated with it, and it 60 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: all came down to one journalist and editorial cartoonist named 61 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: Thomas Nast. Is that factor of fiction, that's it's it's faction, 62 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: sort of fact, it's sort of fiction. Thomas Nast. He 63 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: was German born. He moved to New York City when 64 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: he was six, and New York City has always been 65 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: a real center for political and cultural and social hubbub. 66 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: And so from a very young age who was infused 67 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: and positively you know, swept up and all these ideals. 68 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: And he showed artistic talent at a very young age, 69 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: and it's sort of awesome into it a great political 70 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: cartoonists career. And he certainly adopted the donkey for the Democrats, 71 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: but he can't take credit for first as signing that animal, 72 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: not with the donkey. Back in eight thirty seven, there 73 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: was another political cartoon. I'm not sure who drew it, 74 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: but this one depicted President Andrew Jackson, former President Andrew 75 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: Jackson really still trying to sway no dead president, yeah, superformer, 76 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: super superformer, still trying to influence the Democrats, even though 77 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: he had already left the White House. And so the 78 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: Democratic Party was portrayed as a donkey and he was 79 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: sort of pulling on it. And the donkey is a 80 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: stereotypically stubborn animal, and so that showed the dichotomy there 81 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 1: between the lack of influence and the unwillingness to be 82 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: influenced and sort of stuck net pick that up and 83 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: started using it. Well, he ran with it to a 84 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: certain extent. He used the donkey to portray Democratic journalists 85 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,799 Speaker 1: and specifically copper Heads. Oh yeah, the anti anti war, 86 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: anti union and I think, in Nest's opinion, racist Northerners, 87 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: right right right. He was not fond of them at all, 88 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: and so a donkey seemed the perfect animal to show, 89 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: you know, sort of stubbornly and relentlessly clinging to very 90 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: dead ideals. And one of the cartoons that he drew 91 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: that featured this um copperhead representation was right after Edwin 92 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: Stanton had died, and that was Lincoln's secretary of War 93 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: during the Civil War, and it showed the donkey started 94 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: kicking his corpse, and it wasn't Edwin Stands corpse, it 95 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: was a lion that essentially embodied him. But he used 96 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: the donkey to sort of turned the party on its 97 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,119 Speaker 1: head and make statements about the press and and really 98 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: put the press in a bad light. And another of 99 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 1: his cartoons, it showed the donkey clad in a lion's 100 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: costume trying to scare off all the other animals around. 101 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: And um, this was back when Ulysses says, Grant was 102 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: up for his third term reelection, right right, So the 103 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: donkey in that case represented a It was the press again, 104 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: wasn't it. It was stirring up the other animals in 105 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: the forest. But there was an elephant in that cartoon, yea. 106 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: And now that one of the animals in the cartoon 107 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: was the Republican elephants. And we're not really sure what 108 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 1: the elephant is supposed to symbolize as far as the 109 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: Republican Party goes. I mean, there's certainly generalizations that we 110 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: make about elephants. Um, do they really scare easily? Did 111 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: they never forget? Um? They have fabulous trunks. Well. And 112 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: one of the things I noticed from nas cartoons is 113 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: that it's almost like he assigns, uh the attribute he's 114 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: looking forward to that either the donkey or the elephant, 115 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: based on you know, his his feeling or what he's 116 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: trying to convey at that moment. There there doesn't seem 117 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: to be any particular part of either of those animals 118 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: that he felt embodied the each party, which I mean 119 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: really probably by now would have switched anyway, right, because didn't. 120 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: Weren't Republicans formerly social liberals in nast time. Yeah, that's 121 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: absolutely correct, and now there are social conservatives, yes, generally right. Um. 122 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: And one of the more famous instances of the elephant 123 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: being used, it's sort of clumsy and it's it's stumbling, 124 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: it's about to fall into a pit that's labeled I think, Um, 125 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: oh gosh, what is it labeled? Like inflation and chaos 126 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: and you know, instant death that kind of thing. Yeah, 127 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. So he did use them to 128 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: his man his advantage. And what's interesting about Nash is 129 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: that even though he was a journalist he worked at 130 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: Harper's Weekly twenty four years I think that was eighteen 131 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: sixty two to eighty six, he was not unbiased. You know, 132 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: today we would like to think that most journalists are unbiased, 133 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: but definitely, um, he was not. He made his opinions 134 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: very well known, and apparently the other members of the 135 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: press that as well, like the the copper Head Democrat Press, 136 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: they I think back in those days, everybody kind of 137 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: had their own voice, their own outlet, you know, And 138 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: you're starting to see a similar division today, don't you agree, 139 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: Where you know, the right has its own news outlets 140 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: and the left has its own as well. I think 141 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: that's perfectly natural. I mean, people want to read things 142 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: that ali'm with their own points of view. And what's 143 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: interesting about NaSTA is that he really did levy these 144 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: cartoons to work for his advantage. And I don't know 145 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: if I'd go so far as to say that his 146 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: cartoons were propaganda. I think they were making definitive political statements, 147 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 1: but I don't know that he was trying to corral 148 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 1: people into his corner like a piece of propaganda would, 149 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: even though he did create the character of Uncle Sam 150 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: that we know very well, and that did grace the 151 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: image at least grace the front of a very famous 152 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: piece of propaganda that I want you poster. Yeah. And 153 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: and also when you look at Nests cartoons, you get 154 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: the impression that there's almost like a certain amount of 155 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: fury or rage or anger or discussed in them. So 156 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of the opposite of propaganda. It's 157 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,599 Speaker 1: more like, you know, pointing out the stupidity of believing 158 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: the you know, believing that the opposite of what Nas believed. 159 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: You know, you kind of get that impression as well 160 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: from the cartoons. I do, I do. I see a 161 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: lot of that latent in them, and I can picture 162 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: him at his desk, you know, sleeves rolled up and 163 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: furiously working on one of these drawings. And they did 164 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: serve a purpose. He actually created a bunch of characters 165 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: of Boss Tweed and actually brought down that crime ring. 166 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: Not solely by himself, but his art definitely helped indict 167 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: Boss Tweed. Yeah, and it is I think Lincoln and 168 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: Grant both credited Nast his cartoons with helping them get elected. 169 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: So clearly he was having a pretty big, pretty big 170 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: impression on people. He was. He even impressed Mark Twain, 171 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: a very famous cynic, who commented on his his artwork. Well, 172 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: thanks for clearing that up. So it was faction, you said, faction. 173 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: That's a new one on me. I like it. Well, 174 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: thank you, and um stick around to learn about which 175 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: famous symbol graces the walls of Josh's cubicle, and that 176 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: would be magnum p I, symbol of all of his brawny, 177 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: manly and right with the world. He's the symbol of 178 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: my party, the beach bumb Party. Yeah, it is true, 179 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: So thanks for telling everybody that. You can read even 180 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: more about these political symbols and why are a donkey 181 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: and an elephant the symbols of the Democratic and Republican 182 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: parties on how stuff works dot com. For more on 183 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works 184 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: dot com. Let us know what you think. Send an 185 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: email to podcast at how stuff works dot com.