WEBVTT - CA's Legislature "Patronizing to Women".  Christina Sandefur Talks to A&G

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<v Speaker 1>We first met Tim sander for years ago. He was

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<v Speaker 1>a caller. He would call into the show when we

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<v Speaker 1>were really wrong about something and straighten us out. He

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<v Speaker 1>was Tim the Lawyer and a gentle He had a

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<v Speaker 1>gentle touch, and we liked him. We started having him

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<v Speaker 1>as a guest and uh, Tim sanderfer is his real name,

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<v Speaker 1>not just Tim the Lawyer, And he's become a friend

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<v Speaker 1>of the show, and uh he writes books and he's

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<v Speaker 1>in George Will called him a national treasure. Well then

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<v Speaker 1>he met a gal, sweet gal along the way, and

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<v Speaker 1>uh married Christina the Lawyer and Christina sanderfor we also

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<v Speaker 1>have on the show regular regularly, and we're about to.

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<v Speaker 1>But before we get her on, I saw she retweeted

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<v Speaker 1>this yesterday about boycotting the Olympics in China, and she

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<v Speaker 1>agreed that the Olympics should not be a platform for

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<v Speaker 1>an authoritarian regime to showcase itself while persuading the rest

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<v Speaker 1>of the world to ignore genocide. I think we were

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<v Speaker 1>talking earlier about the first of all, the popularity of

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<v Speaker 1>China and the United States has just gone off a cliff.

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<v Speaker 1>The number of people that have a positive view of

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<v Speaker 1>China's now um it's doubled the number of people in

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<v Speaker 1>the Unite State who think China is our number one enemy.

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<v Speaker 1>All of this has happening just a short amount of time,

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<v Speaker 1>and we were talking about how various businesses and parts

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<v Speaker 1>of society you're going to have to disentangle from China.

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<v Speaker 1>I think Hollywood's gonna have to, the NBA is going

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<v Speaker 1>to have to all but Apple has to at some point. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>dozens and dozens and dozens of major international brands and

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<v Speaker 1>American brands in particular, are going to have to go

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<v Speaker 1>through enormously challenging roads to decouple from China. And before

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<v Speaker 1>we get to next year's Olympics in China, I think

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<v Speaker 1>it will become very clear to everyone the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>having Olympics in a country where they have millions of

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<v Speaker 1>slaves is insane. Well, let's let's welcome Christina Sander for

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<v Speaker 1>end of the conversation. Christina is the executive vice president

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<v Speaker 1>for the Gold Auterer Institute. She develops policies litigates cases

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<v Speaker 1>advancing health care freedom, free enterprise, private property rights, free speech,

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<v Speaker 1>taxpayer rights, and more. Christina, how are you. I am

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<v Speaker 1>doing great. Thanks so much for having me. It's been

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<v Speaker 1>a while. Yeah, it's been thank you, it's been too long.

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<v Speaker 1>Jack actually just stole my thunder. I was going to

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<v Speaker 1>point out if China were merely engaged in genocide, they'd

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<v Speaker 1>be a better country than they are, because they're simultaneously

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<v Speaker 1>engaged in genocide and slave driving on a scale that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's seventeenth century America could hardly dream of.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it is unconscionable. I know we have a

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<v Speaker 1>lot to talk about in a short amount of time,

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<v Speaker 1>but I'll tell you I think it's unconscionable for Americans,

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<v Speaker 1>for the United States as a country to to participate

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<v Speaker 1>in this, to act like everything is fine, to show

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<v Speaker 1>up and smile and play sports amongst people who are,

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<v Speaker 1>as you say, literally enslaving their people. Um. And it

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<v Speaker 1>really provides some perspective. You know, it's amazing how focused

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<v Speaker 1>people are today in the United States on the things

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<v Speaker 1>that we don't have here and that you know, we

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<v Speaker 1>don't have equality among the sexes and the races. And

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<v Speaker 1>I am all I always believe that we should always

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<v Speaker 1>strive to do better to extend the American dream to everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>But while we are saying those things here, people are

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<v Speaker 1>literally slaves in their own homes. Women, I mean to

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<v Speaker 1>be a woman in China, to be a little girl

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<v Speaker 1>born in China. You may not even you may not

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<v Speaker 1>even see adulthood. Uh. It's it's just incredible. And Americans

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<v Speaker 1>need to wake up and understand that. Yeah. We we

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<v Speaker 1>talked regularly about how it's weird looking back that they

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<v Speaker 1>had the Olympics in Berlin with Hitler there in the

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<v Speaker 1>stands of nineteen six. But this would be like having

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<v Speaker 1>the Olympics in nineteen forty three in in in Berlin.

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<v Speaker 1>When't we ever, when the world knows what's going on,

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<v Speaker 1>it would be crazy. I I completely agree, could not

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<v Speaker 1>agree more. But you know they don't call me when

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<v Speaker 1>they make these decisions. No, no, nor us. So Christina,

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<v Speaker 1>we know that you and our friends at Pacific Legal

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<v Speaker 1>Foundation are involved in quite an important case in front

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<v Speaker 1>of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals this week. What

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<v Speaker 1>does she tell us about it? Yeah? You know, your

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<v Speaker 1>your legislators out in California are screwing things up again. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>They passed a law that went into effect effect last

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<v Speaker 1>year that says that all publicly traded companies that are

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<v Speaker 1>either incorporated or even just headquartered in the state of

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<v Speaker 1>California have to have a minimum number of women on

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<v Speaker 1>their boards. And so the number starts at one, and

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<v Speaker 1>it goes up based on on the size of the board.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you don't comply, your company is going to

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<v Speaker 1>be subject to all of these fines. And you also

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<v Speaker 1>end up on a government list so that everybody you

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<v Speaker 1>know can chaptise you and talk about how terrible and

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<v Speaker 1>sex is to your company is and and really, at

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<v Speaker 1>the end of the day, I mean, I mean, this

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<v Speaker 1>is a gender quota, and it forces the people who

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<v Speaker 1>vote for board members, so corporate shareholders, to discriminate under law,

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<v Speaker 1>it forces them to take a candidate sex into account

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<v Speaker 1>every single time they vote for a board number. And

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<v Speaker 1>so you know, our our friends at PLF and and

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<v Speaker 1>UH at the gold Water Institute here, we we've gotten involved.

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<v Speaker 1>Um we sued the state where we're file a brief

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<v Speaker 1>in the case. But because this violates the Equal Protection

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<v Speaker 1>ca it is literally forced discrimination. The Constitution says that

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<v Speaker 1>you can't force people to make decisions on the basis

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<v Speaker 1>of sex, and so it's illegal. But I actually think

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<v Speaker 1>it's just incredibly patronizing to women and incredibly immoral for

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<v Speaker 1>all of these men. I mean sorry to say, but

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<v Speaker 1>a male dominated California legislature to tell me where my

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<v Speaker 1>places and how many people that that look or seem

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<v Speaker 1>like me ought to be on corporate boards? Who's throwing

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<v Speaker 1>money behind both sides of this argument? You know, well,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's always it's always a little bit hard

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<v Speaker 1>to follow the money trail. But I think this is

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<v Speaker 1>really part of um, just this general sort of growing

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<v Speaker 1>you know, left leaning concern about that we need to

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<v Speaker 1>we need to socially engineer exactly you know, how many women,

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<v Speaker 1>how many people of a certain race that we have

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<v Speaker 1>in every single circumstance, and you know, and on boards

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<v Speaker 1>and incompany ease. And it's part of this just general

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<v Speaker 1>strive to be to be woke into you know, uh

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<v Speaker 1>and so um, so you know, it's it's um, it's

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<v Speaker 1>definitely um. It's definitely something that the left has been

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<v Speaker 1>focusing on. And I think that California is only I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>California is the first date to do this, but they're

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<v Speaker 1>not going to be the last. Right, you know, sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>I'm afraid we're a little too hip for the room

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of being lovers of liberty, especially these people

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<v Speaker 1>come out of public schools and and taking the mainstream media.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you help somebody who's thinking, well, wait a minute,

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<v Speaker 1>more women's on women's listen to me like I'm an

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<v Speaker 1>old blues singer, More women on boards of directors, some

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<v Speaker 1>women's um, more women is great. I mean, I'm pro woman.

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<v Speaker 1>I have a couple of daughters. This seems like a

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<v Speaker 1>good policy. Well what's the what's the liberty loving argument

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<v Speaker 1>forgetting the government the hell out of these decisions? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, as a woman, I will say, and

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<v Speaker 1>as a woman who has chosen to, you know, to

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<v Speaker 1>be an executive leadership in an organization, it does make

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<v Speaker 1>me happy to see that, you know, women are making

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<v Speaker 1>tremendous gains in business leadership. There are more women now

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<v Speaker 1>that own their own businesses or that are sitting on

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<v Speaker 1>boards um and and better CEOs than ever before. I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's wonderful. I think it provides a great role

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<v Speaker 1>model for young women that you know, the American dream

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<v Speaker 1>is available to them and they can be anything. The

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<v Speaker 1>problem is that these laws are not based in reality.

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<v Speaker 1>The study after study has shown that it is almost never,

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<v Speaker 1>it is very rare that it is a case of

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<v Speaker 1>genuine discrimination um that you know, a woman may not

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<v Speaker 1>be on a board, or that women may be quote

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<v Speaker 1>unquote underrepresented on a board. The truth is that women

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<v Speaker 1>tend to prefer flexibility. UM. Women are increasingly choosing to

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<v Speaker 1>work in you know, the gig economy, so to to

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<v Speaker 1>drive for uber or lift or to sell things on Etsy. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>Women tend to prefer flexibility so that they can, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>either take care of their families, um, or just have

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<v Speaker 1>different hours. Men tend to prefer your typical nine to

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<v Speaker 1>five and and they look at higher pay and women

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<v Speaker 1>look at benefits. And that is just a on average.

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<v Speaker 1>That's certainly not every woman. It's certainly not me, but

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<v Speaker 1>it's women. It's mostly women's choices that are putting them

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<v Speaker 1>in the situation set there. And and that's not who

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<v Speaker 1>is government to say that that's good or bad? And frankly,

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<v Speaker 1>the degree of hubris is breathtaking to me that government

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<v Speaker 1>is to look at a board and say, okay, there

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<v Speaker 1>should be one woman on this board. I mean, really,

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<v Speaker 1>what is the right number of women? How many women

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<v Speaker 1>should can board? How can government know that? Why just one?

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<v Speaker 1>Why don't why not don't we say at least you know, um,

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<v Speaker 1>but at the end of the day, when we set

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<v Speaker 1>these gender quotas that ignore women's preferences, we're also treating

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<v Speaker 1>women as victims, and we are sending to me a

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<v Speaker 1>very terrible message, a message of despair to young women.

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<v Speaker 1>We're telling them that you know, you cannot, without government's help,

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<v Speaker 1>make it to be a CEO or make it on

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<v Speaker 1>a board and women, as you know, so that companies

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<v Speaker 1>can check these boxes and avoid these Finns, they're just

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<v Speaker 1>going to be appointed as tokens for the sake of compliance,

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<v Speaker 1>and that actually reinforces stereo of course, so that the

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<v Speaker 1>first board meeting you'd have, you'd have the women in

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<v Speaker 1>there that are either subtly or or or overtly treated

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<v Speaker 1>as the only reason you're here is they had to

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<v Speaker 1>put you here by law absolutely, and that may or

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<v Speaker 1>may not be, you know, the reality, but that's how

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to come off and get his studies have

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<v Speaker 1>shown this that that women who are hired under a

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<v Speaker 1>quota system as opposed to merit, regardless of whether they

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<v Speaker 1>actually do deserve to be, they're they're branded with a

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<v Speaker 1>stigma of incompetence UM, and it makes it difficult for

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<v Speaker 1>them to be treated seriously. And that's my biography title,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, branded with the stigma of incompetence. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's surprisingly fun rate Christina Sander Firs, Executive vice President

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<v Speaker 1>the Goldwater Institute. You know, Christina, those are some absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>great arguments on the merits. I a little uncomfortable even

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<v Speaker 1>arguing it on the Merits. And let me let me

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<v Speaker 1>illustrate it for people. Long ago. Jack and I came

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<v Speaker 1>up with this policy about the show because we have

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<v Speaker 1>a kind of our inner circle and the people who

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<v Speaker 1>help on the show. And and once or twice certain

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<v Speaker 1>rogue members of the team way back in the day,

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<v Speaker 1>like we would have a question about all right, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just gonna pick up something ridiculous because this is

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<v Speaker 1>not the point, but should we talk about politics two

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<v Speaker 1>segments in a row? And that person took it upon

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<v Speaker 1>themselves to go to various management personages and say, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>A and G are wondering should they do to politics

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<v Speaker 1>segments in a row? And then all of a sudden

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<v Speaker 1>you have the heavy belligerent hand of management that you

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<v Speaker 1>have permitted into the conversation. And I think that the

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<v Speaker 1>gut level understanding people ought to have is for the

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<v Speaker 1>love of James Madison, do not invite the government into

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<v Speaker 1>a room. It should not be because they will never leave.

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<v Speaker 1>Their hand is heavy and cruel and stupid, and generally

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<v Speaker 1>they'll end up taxing you somehow. Absolutely right. Well, look

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<v Speaker 1>this March is women's history month, right, so let's let's

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<v Speaker 1>look at her story. I'm sorry or her story. You're

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<v Speaker 1>not going to say history on this enough hate speech, Christina,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm tgger that is true, you know. I I tend

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<v Speaker 1>to I tend to do that, although it's not it's

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<v Speaker 1>not the women that I'm triggering. Typically it is because

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a libertarian, so I'm triggering the lefties. But so

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<v Speaker 1>let's try it again. March is women's hearty month, is

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<v Speaker 1>whatever you want to call it. It is women's month. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>But but seriously, though, what your your point is well taken,

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<v Speaker 1>because you know, in the not too distant path, gender

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<v Speaker 1>discrimination was actually legally institutionalized in a different way in

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<v Speaker 1>our country. Every single state had laws on the books

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<v Speaker 1>that would, you know, ban women from working in certain

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<v Speaker 1>professions things like teachers, lawyers, bartenders. They would band married

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<v Speaker 1>women for working or even owning property because they said,

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<v Speaker 1>once you're married, your job is to take care of

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<v Speaker 1>your husband and raise your kids. Um laws that impose

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<v Speaker 1>maximum hours on how much women can work because women

0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.760
<v Speaker 1>are fragile, and you know, they're not able to work

0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.600
<v Speaker 1>as long as men. And literally in the nineteen sixties,

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<v Speaker 1>as late as the nineteen sixties, over half of the

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<v Speaker 1>states still excluded women from by law from doing some

0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.360
<v Speaker 1>kind of work. And in early feminists fought back against

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<v Speaker 1>this and they said, exactly what you said, that you

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<v Speaker 1>know this, these laws are supposedly well intentioned, that government's

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<v Speaker 1>going to protect women. And they said, no, this is

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<v Speaker 1>treating women as weak and incapable of making their own decisions,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's telling us that we can't shape our own destinies.

0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.000
<v Speaker 1>And women fought and fought and fought for true equality

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<v Speaker 1>under the law, and now you know, we basically have that.

0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.960
<v Speaker 1>And now we're turning back and we've got, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>predominantly folks on the left that are are going back

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<v Speaker 1>and inviting government back into our lives to tell us

0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:03.600
<v Speaker 1>where we ought to be and what we ought to do. Interesting, yep, well,

0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:06.000
<v Speaker 1>said Christine to Sander for executive vice president with the

0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Goldwater Institute. Fighting for your freedom all the time, Christine,

0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:11.320
<v Speaker 1>it's been too long. It won't be so long the

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<v Speaker 1>next time. It's great to talk to you. Hey, so good.

0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.200
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate it. Looking forward to talking to you guys again.

0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.480
<v Speaker 1>All right, thanks. I like the herk Stree behind some

0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.000
<v Speaker 1>of these stories. Oh my god, you need to stop.

0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.600
<v Speaker 1>All right, you're gonna make me vomit. Nobody wants me

0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:28.439
<v Speaker 1>to vomit. Set up some sort of family family Kay

0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:35.079
<v Speaker 1>style chain vomitosis. Nobody wants that. Herks three arm and