Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex Bart.
Speaker 2: Lazarre. Hello, everybody nailed it, Joined as always by our Bark.
Speaker 1: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex barrs. I don't know
Speaker 1: what I've done. I think I've made a mistake. Maybe
Speaker 1: maybe I should not have exposed to you to Joe Milton, all,
Speaker 1: I don't know how much Joe Milton we're gonna do?
Speaker 1: Why echoing?
Speaker 3: Is that?
Speaker 1: There? We go? Okay, I don't know how much Joe
Speaker 1: Milton talker and dude, if you can't tell, it's Alex
Speaker 1: Bart in the host chair today on Catch twenty two.
Speaker 1: Evan is here, but he is sick. So two weeks ago,
Speaker 1: two weeks ago or no, yeah, two weeks ago, two
Speaker 1: weeks ago I was sick, yep now, and then we
Speaker 1: had the senior balls, Evan was in mobile, and now
Speaker 1: Evan is sick and can't come in. So let the
Speaker 1: conspiracy theory start that we can't be in the same room.
Speaker 1: But I mean, you hear his voice. You heard my
Speaker 1: voice a couple of weeks ago. He was obviously in mobile.
Speaker 1: The evidence is there, but we're underway here on a
Speaker 1: brand new catch twenty two with obviously a ton to
Speaker 1: get to. Even though it's three weeks in a row,
Speaker 1: we can't manage to be being a building together, so
Speaker 1: we're gonna be pretty heavy coaching staff front office today.
Speaker 1: Obviously a lot has happened in that regard in the
Speaker 1: last week. Everything has happened in that regard in the
Speaker 1: last week. But we can get into some I know
Speaker 1: you guys want to talk prospects with us, as you
Speaker 1: always do. We can get into some of that as well.
Speaker 1: Eight five five PATS five hundred is the number if
Speaker 1: you want to call in eight five five Pats five hundred,
Speaker 1: that's eight five five seven two eight seven five hundred,
Speaker 1: or you can email us at web radio at Patriots
Speaker 1: dot com. But in the meantime, Evan, where do you
Speaker 1: want to start coaching staff or front office?
Speaker 2: We started the coaching staff.
Speaker 4: And just for the record, you know both of us
Speaker 4: have done this show sick now in the last couple
Speaker 4: of weeks, and not all heroes wear capes.
Speaker 2: Alex.
Speaker 4: You know, like I think that we deserve some kudos
Speaker 4: for for playing sick in these instances.
Speaker 2: No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just get your voice sounds much better
Speaker 1: than mine did two weeks ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm for me right now.
Speaker 4: I just I can't get my my body temperature to
Speaker 4: be at a normal level. I'm either super high or
Speaker 4: super cold. And there's no there's no God.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was about to say we had a little
Speaker 1: fun with it. I think we were jumping the shark there.
Speaker 1: Let's uh, let's go, thank you, thanks for that, man.
Speaker 1: Let's get into the uh, let's get into the coaching staf.
Speaker 1: You want to start coaching staff in front office.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we can start the coaching staff.
Speaker 1: So the coaching staff, as as it has been reported
Speaker 1: so far, we've got a little bit more on the
Speaker 1: offensive side of the ball. It's gonna be Alex van Pelt,
Speaker 1: who has been hot. I think got hired after our
Speaker 1: last show, right, he got hired on Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: either Thursday night or Friday, Thursday night. So Alex van
Speaker 1: Pelt's gonna be the offensive coordinator. Ben mca who's going
Speaker 1: to be some sort of general assistant. We have TC McCartney.
Speaker 1: Mike Reheese confirmed last night as the reported last night
Speaker 1: as the quarterbacks coach. Scott Peters is the offensive line coach.
Speaker 1: Still waiting on running backs, receivers, and tight ends. We'll
Speaker 1: start with Van Pelt, who kind of came out of
Speaker 1: nowhere in this whole thing. I it feels like that
Speaker 1: that hire was a month ago. With everything that's happened, like,
Speaker 1: I feel weird going back through it here. I don't
Speaker 1: mind the higher I liked that they went out and
Speaker 1: they got somebody with playing experience. I like that they
Speaker 1: got somebody who's experienced working with quarterbacks. I like the
Speaker 1: system that they run in Cleveland. Now, the play calling questions,
Speaker 1: and it's not that he's never called plays. I'll clear
Speaker 1: that up because I see a lot of people saying
Speaker 1: he's never done it. He did do it in Buffalo
Speaker 1: for a year now, it was fifteen years ago. But
Speaker 1: he has done it, and he did it spot times
Speaker 1: in Cleveland and when Stefanski was out with illness. That
Speaker 1: that is a fair question, and we're gonna need to
Speaker 1: see what he looks like as as a play caller,
Speaker 1: because you can design a great offense. If you're not
Speaker 1: calling the right plays on Sundays within that design, it
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter. I think we all saw Josh McDaniel's
Speaker 1: fall into that a couple of times during his career
Speaker 1: in New England. So to me, like it's a it's
Speaker 1: it's an interesting hire. I'm not gonna sit here in
Speaker 1: bash and I'm not gonna sit here and say it's
Speaker 1: a terrible higher, because I don't think it is. Is it?
Speaker 1: You know, beyond question? No, there's legitimate questions with a
Speaker 1: guy like this. But I think if they're a team
Speaker 1: that wants to develop a quarterback, and they they do
Speaker 1: need to develop a quarterback. And whether that's a quarterback
Speaker 1: that's drafted third overall, a quarterback that's drafted on Day two,
Speaker 1: whether that's Mac Jones, that's another discussion, but there is
Speaker 1: gonna be a quarterback here that needs developing. They're not
Speaker 1: trading for Patrick Mahomes, right. They got a guy that's
Speaker 1: experienced with developing quarterbacks, that experience with working with quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: He runs a quarterback friendly system, and he's run his
Speaker 1: his own show offensively before, and I think in that
Speaker 1: sense it's encouraging.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you just said.
Speaker 4: I think it's disingenuous a little bit to come on
Speaker 4: here and be like, Wow, what a home run higher,
Speaker 4: because let's face it, it wasn't on my list, right, Like,
Speaker 4: it wasn't one of my preferred candidates. Not that my
Speaker 4: list was like the end all be all, But at
Speaker 4: the end of the day, it's not the sexiest of hires.
Speaker 4: It's not the most innovative of hires. We're not talking
Speaker 4: about one of these young Zach Robinson, like young hotshot
Speaker 4: OC candidates out there that's gonna be the next Kyle
Speaker 4: Shanahan or Sean McVay or something like that.
Speaker 2: So is it inspirational?
Speaker 4: Is it, you know, somebody that I think is gonna
Speaker 4: completely come in here and reinvent how we think of
Speaker 4: offense and how they play offense.
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think so. I think that their.
Speaker 4: Scheme has a lot of good things about it that
Speaker 4: we can get into that I do like. But it's
Speaker 4: not I'm not over the moon about it. But I also,
Speaker 4: like you said, I'm also not sitting here and killing
Speaker 4: them for it either. I'm kind of lukewarm on it
Speaker 4: at for the moment, And I think the biggest reasons
Speaker 4: why I like it are as this process continued for
Speaker 4: them and they hire Jerry Springer to be the special
Speaker 4: teams coordinator. He's young, he's never done it before. DeMarcus Covington,
Speaker 4: defensive coordinator, thirty four years old, never done it before.
Speaker 4: They needed somebody in that coaching staff on the coordinator level,
Speaker 4: because the head coach obviously, we know who that is
Speaker 4: that had some experience, that had a resume in the league,
Speaker 4: that's had experience with quarterbacks, has developed quarterbacks that's running offense.
Speaker 4: I think that that's where I was starting to gear
Speaker 4: more towards a little bit myself. Anyways, once it became
Speaker 4: clear that they weren't going to get the Zach Robinson's
Speaker 4: of the world, right Like, once those guys were out
Speaker 4: of the picture and you started to think about what
Speaker 4: are the most important things. I think experience, knowledge, quarterback relationship,
Speaker 4: and I think that that's one thing that you look
Speaker 4: at a guy like Nick Kyley.
Speaker 2: And I know that some people are reporting or surmising.
Speaker 4: I don't know if they've anybody's concretely reported that they
Speaker 4: wouldn't play pay Nick Kayley's freight. But that's sort of
Speaker 4: the report out there right is that they wouldn't pay
Speaker 4: the contract that he wanted. But Kayley's never worked with quarterbacks.
Speaker 4: He's also a young guy. He's also never coordinated an
Speaker 4: offense on his own before that would have been a
Speaker 4: lot of inexperience and just a lot of daring sort
Speaker 4: of inexperienced there on one coaching staff. So in a
Speaker 4: lot of ways, I think that there's a lot of
Speaker 4: things to like about Alex van Pelt, and I do
Speaker 4: want to get into some of the x's and o's
Speaker 4: of what they did in Cleveland. And it's not Shanahan style.
Speaker 4: It's not McVeigh, but it isn't it's adjacent, you know,
Speaker 4: like it's they have so many brands off that tree
Speaker 4: at this point that it's part of the big tree,
Speaker 4: but it's kind of one of the little smaller branches
Speaker 4: towards the bottom, you know. But they definitely do some
Speaker 4: of those things marrying run with play action, you know,
Speaker 4: outside zone like those are some of the things that
Speaker 4: they have done in Cleveland that I would say it's
Speaker 4: Stefanski does adhere a little bit to some of the
Speaker 4: Shanahan principles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all good points. I want to get to the
Speaker 1: X and OSVICH is if you have any thoughts on
Speaker 1: the other offensive Highers, TC McCartney, Scott Peters or Ben McAdoo,
Speaker 1: So Ben McAdoo.
Speaker 4: I feel like this happens in coaching, and I know
Speaker 4: that some people have said that this was on the
Speaker 4: record before those drafts, that he liked all those quarterbacks,
Speaker 4: right they wanted to trade up for Patrick Mahomes and
Speaker 4: he wanted Josh Allen over Sam Darnold, and YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 4: But if those things are true, then that is encouraging
Speaker 4: and it kind of under you would understand almost why
Speaker 4: they would bring him and Alex van pelt in together
Speaker 4: because now you have two guys that have a decent
Speaker 4: history with quarterbacks and working with quarterbacks and maybe even
Speaker 4: evaluating quarterbacks, and I think that.
Speaker 2: That can be really useful.
Speaker 4: I'm not the biggest Ben mcadew fan from his time
Speaker 4: with the Giants, obviously, I don't think anybody could look
Speaker 4: at his head coaching tenure with the Giants and be
Speaker 4: super gung.
Speaker 2: Ho about it.
Speaker 4: But from what I understand, he's a good He's a
Speaker 4: good eye for quarterback talent, a good eye for offensive
Speaker 4: talent in general.
Speaker 2: From what they know. Has been reported in the past, and.
Speaker 4: That's something that we've talked about that this team has
Speaker 4: struggled with what not just that quarterback but at receiver,
Speaker 4: you know, at tight end, they haven't really been a
Speaker 4: great evaluating team when it comes to offensive skill players.
Speaker 4: So maybe Ben McAdoo is somebody that can come in
Speaker 4: and help the front office out and kind of be
Speaker 4: a little.
Speaker 2: Bit of a dual role there.
Speaker 4: Of coaching these guys but also having an eye for
Speaker 4: the talent a little bit as well.
Speaker 1: I'll give you the one thing on did interest me,
Speaker 1: and this is a little outside of the box. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that the quarterback stuff's impressive, but I don't know,
Speaker 1: it sounds a little bit to me like Bill Paulian
Speaker 1: saying he knew Brady was a first round pick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: Right. Where mcadow's interesting to me is, Look, Tom Coughlin's
Speaker 1: not Bill Belichick, obviously, but he's a guy that's the
Speaker 1: greatest coach in franchise history. He won multiple Super Bowls,
Speaker 1: he was there, he was there for a long time,
Speaker 1: he was highly revered. Like, that's not an easy guy
Speaker 1: to replace by any means, and mcadew had to do it,
Speaker 1: and it didn't go well. He got let go late
Speaker 1: in his second year. But I mean, there is no
Speaker 1: apples to apples for replacing Bill Belichick, there isn't. But
Speaker 1: mcadow's kind of come about as close as you're gonna
Speaker 1: get in the NFL. And I don't think the weight
Speaker 1: of replacing Bill Belichick is just reserved for Girodmeo. I
Speaker 1: think that falls on JaMarcus Covington. I think that falls
Speaker 1: on Alex van Pelt being the first to post Belichick's staff.
Speaker 1: Here's somebody who has navigated those waters before, and again, like,
Speaker 1: take that for whatever it's worth. I'm not necessarily saying
Speaker 1: that's the be all end all, but when I look
Speaker 1: at Macado, that to me is where the true value
Speaker 1: is as a resource for what these guys are going
Speaker 1: to go through this year in terms of external pressure
Speaker 1: because he's faced and again not the same Belichick, Coughlin,
Speaker 1: not the same, but he's gotten about as close to
Speaker 1: having that experiences is anybody you are realistically going to
Speaker 1: get to come join the staff. And I think there's
Speaker 1: some value in having him as a resource in that regard.
Speaker 1: I know that's the kind of stuff you hate. I
Speaker 1: can't tell if you're rolling your eyes, and me you
Speaker 1: probably are, but that's what stands out about Macado to me.
Speaker 4: I think there's some things that you know, we've discussed
Speaker 4: in the past. Girodmeo to me, with these two piers
Speaker 4: is recognizing where his own holes are currently as a coach.
Speaker 4: He I think he's recognizing that he needed a lot
Speaker 4: of help on the offensive side of the ball, that
Speaker 4: he needed two guys that knew what they were doing
Speaker 4: and knew have been around the block a little bit,
Speaker 4: have been to multiple stops, have coached, you know, all
Speaker 4: different types of players, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4: And he have two guys now and McAdoo and Van
Speaker 4: pelt that I know a lot of Patriots fans are
Speaker 4: going to hear this and want to, you know, throw.
Speaker 2: Up a little bit.
Speaker 4: But the reality is is that I think both those
Speaker 4: guys can run the offensive side of the ball, and
Speaker 4: they have the experience, and they have the coaching chops,
Speaker 4: and they have the resumes to be able to garner
Speaker 4: that sort of responsibility. One of them has been a
Speaker 4: head coach in the NFL before, Alex Van Peltz coordinated
Speaker 4: offenses in multiple stops.
Speaker 2: Both those guys have.
Speaker 4: The wello out the resumes to be able to run
Speaker 4: offense in the NFL, and Girodmeo I think is recognized
Speaker 4: that he's not ready to be the CEO of the
Speaker 4: football team just yet, where he's got his hand and
Speaker 4: every little thing and he's Bill Belichick. That's you know,
Speaker 4: crossing these te's over here in the offensive meetings then
Speaker 4: walking over to the defensive meetings and dotting those eyes
Speaker 4: and that sort of thing, like he's not.
Speaker 2: Ready to do that.
Speaker 4: So this should allow, in theory, girod Mayo to mostly
Speaker 4: focus on what he does best, which is motivate the
Speaker 4: team and coach the defense. And hopefully that means that
Speaker 4: the defense will be just as good as it was
Speaker 4: last year, if not better.
Speaker 1: And I think that's a key point. When people talk
Speaker 1: about Van Pelt's lack of experience as a play caller,
Speaker 1: I think they conflate that with lack of experience as
Speaker 1: an offensive coordinator, and those are two different things. An
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator is going to design the offense implement it
Speaker 1: both on a macro level on a micro level week
Speaker 1: to week. Hey, we want to emphasize this this week,
Speaker 1: we want to emphasize that we want to attack this,
Speaker 1: we want to stay away from that, and then basically
Speaker 1: give that to the play caller. If it's a different person.
Speaker 1: So Van Pelt's putting offense together before mcadho's putting offense
Speaker 1: together before one other member of the staff. I want
Speaker 1: to touch on real quick before we get into what
Speaker 1: this thing might look like. And that's TC McCartney, who's
Speaker 1: reportedly going to be the quarterbacks coach when this higher
Speaker 1: or yes, they was reported they at first they were
Speaker 1: targeting him. Yeah, I was a little confused because we
Speaker 1: just talked about it, Alex Van pelt Be and McAdoo.
Speaker 1: It felt like they were targeting like true experienced quarterback developers,
Speaker 1: and TC McCartney is a little bit out of that mold. Yes,
Speaker 1: he played quarterback at LSU, but he was a scout
Speaker 1: team quarterback. He then went He was a general assistant
Speaker 1: in San Francisco for a few years, including under Shanahan,
Speaker 1: spent one year as a quarterbacks coach in Denver, then
Speaker 1: was a general assistant again in Cleveland, and then was
Speaker 1: a tight ends coach for the last four years. His
Speaker 1: resume to me, doesn't look like the resume of quarterbacks coach.
Speaker 1: It looks like the resume of an offensive coordinator. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I wonder if and I said this, when they
Speaker 1: hired Van pelt Evan. I think I texted this to
Speaker 1: you that once they made that higher, we had talked
Speaker 1: about how the quarterback coach higher was going to be
Speaker 1: so important. Once they made that higher, to me, it
Speaker 1: was all right, now I need the offensive line coach.
Speaker 1: And I think we both really like Scott Peters. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in his background with MMA and combat sports and all that, but.
Speaker 4: And just like the videos of him wanting to like
Speaker 4: kill people on Twitter, like not literally like in football, no.
Speaker 1: Just like using like a poll on his house as
Speaker 1: a blocking sled. It's awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1: So to me, I was like, all right, like Van
Speaker 1: Pelts more or less gonna be your quarterbacks coach. I
Speaker 1: look at TC McCartney, and I look at his resume,
Speaker 1: and I look at his background. Again, He's spend significant
Speaker 1: time with Kyle Shanahan. He's coached multiple positions on the
Speaker 1: offensive side of the ball. I wonder if this is
Speaker 1: kind of all right, Van Peltz got the quarterbacks. We're
Speaker 1: gonna have this guy here so that if it goes
Speaker 1: well with Van pelt and he's gone, Because if it
Speaker 1: goes well with him, he's gonna be head coaching at
Speaker 1: least three in three years, maximum right. TC McCartney to
Speaker 1: me is a succession plan. TC McCartney to me is
Speaker 1: the guy you're grooving that. If it goes well and
Speaker 1: Alex van Pelt takes a head coaching job, this is
Speaker 1: your next offense coordinator because his background strongly suggests somebody
Speaker 1: who's a West Coast even borderline shanahano c. He just
Speaker 1: needs a little more experience. He's just not quite there yet,
Speaker 1: and this is a way to maybe get him some
Speaker 1: of that experience. So it's an interesting hire. To me's
Speaker 1: If it goes well, it's brilliant. If it doesn't, we're
Speaker 1: we there's a real chance of sitting here in a
Speaker 1: year saying they should have gotten somebody with more experience
Speaker 1: around the quarterbacks. It was too much on Alex van
Speaker 1: Pelt's plate. But I do think that he's somebody who,
Speaker 1: if it goes well, you're gonna hear quickly talked about
Speaker 1: as an offensive coordinator, either here if Van Pelt jumps,
Speaker 1: or elsewhere, like he can be there. To Rad Johnson, basically.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I look you know, you look at it,
Speaker 4: and there's been a lot of track record of guys
Speaker 4: going from tight ends coaches to offensive coordinators, right, just
Speaker 4: because of all the responsibility on the tight ends coach
Speaker 4: from a run and pass game perspective, but in a
Speaker 4: lot of ways still isn't like quarterbacks coach. A little
Speaker 4: bit of a promotion like that just feels a little
Speaker 4: bit like an upward promotion. And I think if you're
Speaker 4: TC McCartney, you probably wanted that a promotion to come
Speaker 4: to New England. Like, I don't know if New England
Speaker 4: was necessarily at the top of his list of places
Speaker 4: that he could go. He could go latch onto you know,
Speaker 4: Kyle Shanahan's staff in San Francisco and replace Clint Kobiac
Speaker 4: and probably be head coach in two years just because
Speaker 4: he knew Kyle Shanahan one time. Right, So, like you
Speaker 4: look at these things and I think that in order
Speaker 4: to get him in the building, they gave him a
Speaker 4: more prominent title of quarterbacks coach, and.
Speaker 2: I'm okay with that. I do want to touch on on.
Speaker 4: Scott Peters though, because so Brandon Thorn is my my
Speaker 4: go to offensive line guy does a great job covering
Speaker 4: offensive line play both college and you know, draft and NFL.
Speaker 2: He was like.
Speaker 4: Imediately tweeted, this is a great hire. Scott Peters deserves
Speaker 4: to run his own room. He's been a you know,
Speaker 4: a rising star under Bill call Hand in Cleveland for
Speaker 4: a couple of years now, so that that's really encouraging.
Speaker 4: And then you just read up and you watch this
Speaker 4: guy do his job and at work and in some
Speaker 4: of these clinics that he's done, and you mentioned like
Speaker 4: the poll in the backyard of his house and he's
Speaker 4: just using it as a blocking sled and looks like
Speaker 4: he could probably go in there and play guard next
Speaker 4: week or something like that. The way that he was,
Speaker 4: you know, firing out of his stance and throwing punches
Speaker 4: and things. I'm encouraged by this. I like his background,
Speaker 4: I like his attitude. I think he's he's somebody that
Speaker 4: just screams offensive line coach at you, right, like he's
Speaker 4: just yeah, you know, you've been joking back and forth
Speaker 4: with like the whole knee caps thing and things like that,
Speaker 4: but that you know, I kind of rolled my eyes
Speaker 4: at that type of stuff, usually mostly because I hate
Speaker 4: Dan Campbell, but also but like when it comes to
Speaker 4: offensive line coaches, like that's what you want your offensive
Speaker 4: line coach to be like like Dante s Karneck like
Speaker 4: you want him to freaking, you know, spit out fire
Speaker 4: like that's just like what you want your line coaches
Speaker 4: to be like. And I think that Scott Peters definitely
Speaker 4: fits that bill. So out of all of these assistant
Speaker 4: coaching hires, you know, taking Van Pelton McAdoo out of it,
Speaker 4: I think that he's the most encouraging one by far.
Speaker 1: All Right, so put it all together, Evan, what's this
Speaker 1: offense going to look like?
Speaker 4: Well, well, I do think that what's encouraging about what
Speaker 4: Cleveland did? And I know it's tough because yes, he
Speaker 4: wasn't a play caller, and it was Stefanski's offense. Like
Speaker 4: that is Stefanski's offense in Cleveland, and here they're running
Speaker 4: the Stefanski system. But if we if they had hired
Speaker 4: Zach Robinson, then we would still be talking about the
Speaker 4: McVeigh offense. And how Zach like, that's the offense he's
Speaker 4: built in, right, Like, that's the offense he's been born in.
Speaker 4: Mike McCarthy, it's not exactly the same, but it's it's
Speaker 4: from a passing game standpoint, it's pretty similar from what
Speaker 4: they did in Green Bay and I think the one
Speaker 4: thing that's encouraging is that they do a really really
Speaker 4: nice job of marrying together run and play action pass
Speaker 4: and they are an explosive down the field vertical passing
Speaker 4: the game off of play action, Like this is not
Speaker 4: a team that is just trying to get you know,
Speaker 4: twelve to fifteen yard chunks at a time off play
Speaker 4: action pass. This is a team that wants to push
Speaker 4: the ball down the field for explosives off of those
Speaker 4: play actions. So they'll run some outside zone. They're not
Speaker 4: as they weren't as outside zone heavy last year as they.
Speaker 2: Have been in the past, but that's.
Speaker 4: Still their Their base run scheme is outside zone. So
Speaker 4: they'll run outside zone and then they'll run you know,
Speaker 4: bootleg stretch off of it, right, and then they'll run
Speaker 4: a lot of the different Shanahan types of route combinations
Speaker 4: down the field to generate big plays. And you watch
Speaker 4: that film really towards the down the stretch with Joe Flacco,
Speaker 4: the one guy that obviously really sticks out continuously is
Speaker 4: David and Joku, and they were hitting big play after
Speaker 4: big play after big play against David to David and
Speaker 4: Joku off play action.
Speaker 2: I love the bootlegs.
Speaker 4: They run a good amount of gap now counter you know,
Speaker 4: they run a little pin pole and then they run.
Speaker 2: They run all.
Speaker 4: Those same blocking schemes and then they just have counteractions
Speaker 4: off of them with the play action fakes. So even
Speaker 4: though it's not as motion heavy, it's not as exotic.
Speaker 4: It's not you know, when you watch like a Shanahan
Speaker 4: Mike McDaniel run game, there's guys motioning all over the place,
Speaker 4: there's weird odd blocking angles, there's different setups things like that.
Speaker 4: It's not quite as exotic or as creative as that,
Speaker 4: but the principles are the same of we're gonna show
Speaker 4: you run formation, run block, and then we're gonna bootleg
Speaker 4: off of it, or we're gonna play action off of
Speaker 4: it and we're gonna generate big plays down the field.
Speaker 4: So when you look at all these things, I think
Speaker 4: what's encouraging about it is that you can see a system.
Speaker 4: You can see the game plan, you can see a
Speaker 4: real systemic way of how they like to get to
Speaker 4: their things, and they buy into it. You know, they
Speaker 4: are a run first team, but they buy into it
Speaker 4: to run the play action off of it, which I
Speaker 4: think in a lot of ways, Alex, like you should
Speaker 4: be excited about that. That's yeah, this is this is
Speaker 4: real man football, like you like to say, like, this
Speaker 4: is this is big boy football. They're gonna want to
Speaker 4: run the ball and they're gonna want to run the
Speaker 4: play action off of it. And really that's what the
Speaker 4: the the real you know, crux of the offenses is
Speaker 4: creating those explosive plays. And then when they get into
Speaker 4: past situations, whether it's third down, you know, short yardage,
Speaker 4: obvious past two minute, that sort of thing, they'll run
Speaker 4: West Coast type of offensive you know, staples in the
Speaker 4: passing game, but they're not trying to they're not trying
Speaker 4: to generate too many explosives. And when I say that,
Speaker 4: it's not like they obviously every team wants to generate
Speaker 4: explosive all the time, right, but they're not their West
Speaker 4: Coast pass game like and you know, third and five
Speaker 4: is really just to pick six hours up, right, Like
Speaker 4: if they get extra yards from it, great, their first
Speaker 4: and second down play calling and the explosive plays off
Speaker 4: play action, that's where they want to really hit the
Speaker 4: chunk plays.
Speaker 2: And move the offense.
Speaker 4: So as we get into it some more here, I
Speaker 4: think one of the cool things that we can talk
Speaker 4: about is how this fits, you know, draft prospects, free agency,
Speaker 4: you know, that sort of thing. Because I do think
Speaker 4: that if this is exactly how they're gonna play an offense,
Speaker 4: and yeah, it does, certain people definitely fitted a lot
Speaker 4: better than other people in the draft.
Speaker 1: And I think the big thing, I mean draft aside,
Speaker 1: just in general, and I'm with you, they're gonna run
Speaker 1: set up the pass. I know you're gonna roll your
Speaker 1: eyes at that, but they're gonna run to set up
Speaker 1: the play action. Yeah, run to make that work and
Speaker 1: then try to hit their explosives off that. The tight
Speaker 1: end has been a huge part of what they've done
Speaker 1: the last four years. Yeah, three all all of the
Speaker 1: previous four tight end was among their top three leading receivers,
Speaker 1: was one of their top two receips three to the
Speaker 1: last four, and Djoku led the team in catches last year.
Speaker 1: They've got to get their version of David and Joku
Speaker 1: and whether that's Jatavian Sanders. I look at Austin Hooper's
Speaker 1: a free agent. He had success with alex Van Pelton Cleveland. Uh,
Speaker 1: I'm blanking on on the other Cleveland tight end that
Speaker 1: you you text me about it. Harrison Bryant, who you
Speaker 1: really liked in the draft that year, right, weren't you?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I mean I was the Devin ASSISI Dalton Keene draft.
Speaker 1: And we'll call it the Cole Comet draft.
Speaker 4: Maybe maybe they fixed the mistake and get the guy
Speaker 4: they should have drafted all along.
Speaker 1: So I look at like the the three lynch pins
Speaker 1: of that Browns offense, and well there's four. Like I
Speaker 1: don't want to leave out Nick Chubb, but one they're
Speaker 1: very successful without Nick Chubb last year. And two I'm
Speaker 1: not saying Rimandre's Nick Chubb, but Ramondre is a really
Speaker 1: good running back. Like, I don't think they need to
Speaker 1: upgrade at running back to make this offense work. Now
Speaker 1: that you get a pass catching back, that's another story.
Speaker 1: They got to get their version of David and Joku.
Speaker 1: They got to get their version of Amari Cooper, and
Speaker 1: they got to get a tackle. And that sounds like
Speaker 1: a lot, and I mean it is. You can do
Speaker 1: all that this offseason. That's not unrealistic if you go
Speaker 1: about it correctly. You can get those three guys this
Speaker 1: offseason and still honestly take a quarterback third. I know
Speaker 1: a lot of people probably heard get your Amari Cooper
Speaker 1: and thought, Marvin Harrison Junior, you can go out and
Speaker 1: sign Michael Pittman, Calvin Ridley, like they kind of revitalized
Speaker 1: Amari Cooper and we will still see you the wide
Speaker 1: receivers coaches, but go out get your true X, of
Speaker 1: which there's a couple available in free agency. Tackle. Maybe
Speaker 1: that's where you got at the top of the draft
Speaker 1: or in the top one hundred. Maybe they trade for
Speaker 1: Jack Conklin. I know we talked about that a little
Speaker 1: bit before even Van Pelt was in the picture. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's it's somewhere else in free agency you bring going
Speaker 1: Winno back on the other side, and then and then
Speaker 1: tight end. We talked about a couple guys that could
Speaker 1: sign or like I think today Sanders, I had David
Speaker 1: Joke who as a comp for him before all of this,
Speaker 1: So now here there's literally a David Joku type player.
Speaker 1: Like there you go. I wanted to ask you this
Speaker 1: and you can respond to that whole plan, but specifically
Speaker 1: on owned when WU last time we had talked about this,
Speaker 1: we still thought they were trying to do that Shanahan thing,
Speaker 1: and you talked about on when who maybe not being
Speaker 1: an ideal fit for that now that it's going to
Speaker 1: be a little more ground a pound his own when
Speaker 1: to a better fit for the Van Pelt offenses. Is
Speaker 1: he a guy you're willing to commit to as a
Speaker 1: tackle in the Van Pelt offense.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure a tackle.
Speaker 4: I still think he's such a good lineman that they
Speaker 4: would make it work. And like I said, last year,
Speaker 4: they ran a lot more gap. They were a lot
Speaker 4: more gap heavy. They were one of the more gap
Speaker 4: heavy offenses in the league the last couple of years. Actually,
Speaker 4: they still run a lot of outside zone though, And
Speaker 4: I still look at their film and say, you know,
Speaker 4: the horizontal stretch and the aim point outside the tackle, like,
Speaker 4: that's still kind of the basis of what they do, right, Like,
Speaker 4: that's like the setup that they want to present to
Speaker 4: the defense, right And they still run a lot of
Speaker 4: outside zone. They still run a lot of pinpoll, which
Speaker 4: is basically just outside zone tagged a little bit differently.
Speaker 4: And they still run.
Speaker 2: A lot of crack toss.
Speaker 4: So all those three of those schemes are outside on
Speaker 4: the perimeter. You know a big thing about the Shanahan
Speaker 4: offense and Stefanski is I think a subscriber to this
Speaker 4: as well, and so as van Pelta. In turn, they
Speaker 4: want the dbs to be the guys that have to
Speaker 4: make the tackles at the point of attack.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: They look at it and they say, why are we
Speaker 4: going to run at three hundred and thirty pound dts
Speaker 4: and linebackers who jobs it is to stop the run
Speaker 4: when we can run at corners and safeties and make
Speaker 4: them stop the run for you know, on the perimeter.
Speaker 2: So let's get the ball outside.
Speaker 4: And I still think at their core that is what
Speaker 4: the Browns have been over the last couple of years.
Speaker 4: But I think that on when who can be a
Speaker 4: fit in that scheme as more of a not necessarily
Speaker 4: the guy that's on the move all the time in
Speaker 4: some of those schemes, but a guy that for example,
Speaker 4: you know, when you run pin pull, you have guys
Speaker 4: that are you know, pulling around guys that are pinning
Speaker 4: down Like there's no reason why on when who can't
Speaker 4: be the one pinning somebody down?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 2: It just you have to scheme it a little bit differently.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't necessarily encourage him to be the guy in space,
Speaker 4: but He's a very good player.
Speaker 2: And I wouldn't.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't let him walk simply because it doesn't feel
Speaker 4: like he's a scheme fit. If I'm Mike on when
Speaker 4: who's not a scheme fit for you, then your scheme
Speaker 4: stakes like make it, make it work like you. It's
Speaker 4: that simple. But you mentioned a couple of alignment with
Speaker 4: the Browns. Jack Conklin, I think is a really interesting
Speaker 4: trade target or maybe even cap casualty in Cleveland if
Speaker 4: they decide to give our guy Dwan Jones the keys
Speaker 4: there at right tackle. He's getting up there in age,
Speaker 4: but would be a nice kind of bridge to a
Speaker 4: younger player than maybe they draft this year. And then
Speaker 4: Gary on Conley, who played a decent amount last year
Speaker 4: I left tackle almost. I think he was really their
Speaker 4: primary starting left tackle in Cleveland last year.
Speaker 2: I think I have that name right, But now my
Speaker 2: might like.
Speaker 1: Isn't isn't gary On Conley corner?
Speaker 4: As soon as I've said it, I was like, that's
Speaker 4: gotta be the the whatever flu brain right now?
Speaker 2: But Christian, thank.
Speaker 1: You, Yeah, Gary on Connolly definitely corner.
Speaker 2: I knew it was Gary On.
Speaker 4: Gary On Christian played left tackle for them, like a lot.
Speaker 4: I think you would say he was their primary left
Speaker 4: tackle last year because the injuries, and he's more of
Speaker 4: like a swing I think ideally like a third tackle.
Speaker 4: But he's a free agent as well, so that that
Speaker 4: that's a player that maybe they could sign. I think
Speaker 4: Conkland's somebody that they could maybe call on and see
Speaker 4: if he's available in a trade or maybe he becomes
Speaker 4: available as like a cap cut. But they have some
Speaker 4: options off of that Cleveland offensive roster. Obviously, we haven't
Speaker 4: even talked about Joe Flacco, who is also going to
Speaker 4: be a free agent, but I'm not necessarily taught saying
Speaker 4: that we need to talk about that like we want
Speaker 4: to do it, but it is an option. So I
Speaker 4: think on one who's a fit, I think they would
Speaker 4: make it work with him. And one thing I will
Speaker 4: say that, you know, I also didn't mention earlier about
Speaker 4: the run scheme.
Speaker 2: That's encouraging it.
Speaker 4: They you can see game to game how they like
Speaker 4: game plan different teams different ways, so they're not a
Speaker 4: totally dead set and running the ball one specific way.
Speaker 4: You know, against the Jets, they did a lot of
Speaker 4: their old school stuff to get out on the perimeter
Speaker 4: and get away from Quinn Williams and those types of guys.
Speaker 4: But then the next you know, week, or maybe it
Speaker 4: was a week before against Houston in the regular season,
Speaker 4: they ran a very very different run sort of install
Speaker 4: In that game, they are more downhill and trying to
Speaker 4: run more counter and trap schemes and things like that.
Speaker 2: So they they have a lot.
Speaker 4: Of different things in their their book, very diverse run scheme,
Speaker 4: and I liked how the game planned and pieced it
Speaker 4: together down the stretch with Flacco. Look, if you get
Speaker 4: that kind of production out of Joe Flacco coming off
Speaker 4: his couch, you got to get some some credit for that,
Speaker 4: right you know, you know that that was an impressive
Speaker 4: run that they had offensively.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And again Van Pelton's earned something the credit
Speaker 1: for it, even though he wasn't calling the place, because
Speaker 1: he was still the one putting that together, designing it
Speaker 1: and any other thoughts on the offense before we move over,
Speaker 1: we'll do the touch on the other two sides of
Speaker 1: the ball quickly and then we'll take some calls.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the one other thing.
Speaker 4: And I know that people are gonna are gonna roll
Speaker 4: their eyes at me and get mad at me because
Speaker 4: you know there's so many like Arthur I love in
Speaker 4: New York or whatever.
Speaker 2: I think it's New York.
Speaker 4: He he loves himself some jayde and Daniels, And I
Speaker 4: know I always get a lot of flag for this take.
Speaker 4: But the bottom line is is that there's no better
Speaker 4: quarterback fit in this draft for this offense than Drake May.
Speaker 2: Like he's just he's the best fit for this offense.
Speaker 4: But at the same time, this offense is at its
Speaker 4: best when you have a quarterback that can vertically throw
Speaker 4: the ball down the field like that.
Speaker 2: That's just the bottom line.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean May and Daniels can both do that.
Speaker 4: Yea, yeah, But when I look at it, like I
Speaker 4: think that one it has to there has to be
Speaker 4: an ability to go from under center.
Speaker 1: No, I agree with you that that May is a
Speaker 1: better fit, but I don't think I think it would
Speaker 1: be incorrect to say Daniels is not a fit. Uh.
Speaker 4: I don't know if he's not a fit, it's just
Speaker 4: not it's not the best use of Jayden Daniels.
Speaker 1: You could you could write like you could Jane Daniels
Speaker 1: in theory should work in this offense, but not to
Speaker 1: the extent, Drake maywould.
Speaker 4: I just feel like JA putting Jayden Daniels in this
Speaker 4: offense and like to use a really good combo. I
Speaker 4: think Bluke GETSI with Chicago and Justin Fields.
Speaker 1: No, but the difference is Justin Fields was not a
Speaker 1: fit in that offense.
Speaker 4: I think that it's similar, like I think it's similar
Speaker 4: with Jayden Daniels, where I think that you're asking Justin
Speaker 4: Fields to be in an offense, and like, this was
Speaker 4: what happened with Chicago for the first half of last year.
Speaker 4: Second half of last year, they started running option, they
Speaker 4: start running pistol, they start running spread right and they
Speaker 4: and they start.
Speaker 2: To actually move the ball offensively in Chicago.
Speaker 4: I just look at Jayden Daniels and I think, out
Speaker 4: of the gate, he's going to have to be in
Speaker 4: an offense that is pretty option heavy and allows him
Speaker 4: to kind of develop as a passer as he kind
Speaker 4: of gets his feet wet. In the NFL, a lot
Speaker 4: of the same thing, you know that the Ravens did
Speaker 4: with Lamar in the beginning the remember Lamar's rookie year.
Speaker 1: Well, he was running Joe Flacco's offense, but.
Speaker 4: He was a run like they were using him in
Speaker 4: like an option style offense right out of the gate
Speaker 4: under Greg Roman, and then as he kind of developed
Speaker 4: as a passer and as he got more comfortable as
Speaker 4: an NFL passer, they started adding more and more onto
Speaker 4: his plate.
Speaker 2: As a thrower.
Speaker 4: Then obviously they they bring in you know, Todd Mounkin,
Speaker 4: and they do it, they take it to.
Speaker 2: A whole other level.
Speaker 4: I think Jaden Daniels needs to be on a similar track.
Speaker 4: It's it's also the same way that the Eagles treated
Speaker 4: Jalen Hurts, you know, like he comes into the league
Speaker 4: and a lot of what he's doing is RPO read option,
Speaker 4: you know that sort of thing, and then as they
Speaker 4: look at him, they're like, oh wow, he can actually
Speaker 4: do more as a thrower. He's getting more comfortable, we
Speaker 4: add more into like the traditional type of offense.
Speaker 2: I think Jaden Daniels is the same way.
Speaker 4: And I don't know if that this offense is necessarily
Speaker 4: the greatest fan And that's like what my one real
Speaker 4: knock on Van Pelt, like the other stuff of it's
Speaker 4: not what everybody wanted, and it's not you know whatever,
Speaker 4: Like it doesn't necessarily matter at this point. But they've
Speaker 4: moved on from him in Cleveland because they wanted to
Speaker 4: go in a different direction with Deshaun Watson.
Speaker 2: Like that's why he's not there anymore, right.
Speaker 4: Because they felt like this system wasn't a fit for
Speaker 4: Deshaun Watson and it wasn't bringing out the best in
Speaker 4: Deshaun Watson. And I'm not saying that it's they're completely
Speaker 4: the same player or anything.
Speaker 2: Like that, but if you had to say, who was
Speaker 2: Jaden Daniels.
Speaker 4: More like Joe Flacco or Baker Mayfield or Deshaun Watson,
Speaker 4: Like we're all gonna say Deshaun Watson, you know. And
Speaker 4: I think that's a real not a concern, but a
Speaker 4: real question for Alex van Pelt.
Speaker 2: If you're girod Mayo and you're Elliott Wolf.
Speaker 4: Is is this do you have to run the offense
Speaker 4: this way? Is this what you know and this is
Speaker 4: what you're comfortable with or is this just what you
Speaker 4: were doing because this is what Stefanski wanted you to do, right?
Speaker 4: And that I think is a big question because if
Speaker 4: this is my offense and we got to figure it
Speaker 4: out running it this way, then they have to.
Speaker 2: Get the right quarterback for that type of offense.
Speaker 1: All right, let's move over to the defensive side of
Speaker 1: the ball. Here to Marcus Covington's the defensive coordinator. This
Speaker 1: one's kind of filled out. Jerry Montgomers the defensive line coach.
Speaker 1: Mike Reese reported last night that Brian Belichick is back.
Speaker 1: He didn't confirm he's going to be the safety's coach,
Speaker 1: but I mean, I think we can imagine that would
Speaker 1: be the case. So you're still waiting on linebackers, and
Speaker 1: we haven't heard anything one way or the other on
Speaker 1: Mike Pellegrino, So we don't know whether or not the
Speaker 1: cornerbacks coach is something Patriots will be hiring. But I mean,
Speaker 1: I think we all we've talked a lot about Covington
Speaker 1: as a potential DC, even before he was hired. What's
Speaker 1: your initial rate on Jerry Montgomery.
Speaker 4: Well, it's kind of positive and negative. I think the
Speaker 4: positive is a.
Speaker 2: Lot of the Packers players have come out and said,
Speaker 2: you know, you guys got a great one. Think it
Speaker 2: was like Kenny.
Speaker 4: Clark went on Twitter and said, you know, the Patriots
Speaker 4: got a great coach, And I think that the one
Speaker 4: thing that you look at in Green Bay. They've done
Speaker 4: a really nice job of developing those interior guys like
Speaker 4: a Kenny Clark. They've done a nice job of pressuring
Speaker 4: the quarterback with their front, but now they have good
Speaker 4: players on their front, there's no doubt about that. But
Speaker 4: their defensive line has been a really good pressure defensive line.
Speaker 4: But that said, they've been terrible against the run for
Speaker 4: multiple years now in Green Bay, and I would say
Speaker 4: that they're undoing as a staff. And the reason why
Speaker 4: Joe Berry is not the defensive coordinator there anymore is
Speaker 4: because they can't stop the run. So that when you
Speaker 4: have a defense that's thirty second against the run and
Speaker 4: he's the defensive line coach. That for all the reasons
Speaker 4: why we gave the Marcus Covington his flowers right for
Speaker 4: the Patriots run defense being good, we have to kind
Speaker 4: of be fair and play both sides of it. But
Speaker 4: I would say that that was more maybe schematic of
Speaker 4: like Joe Barry was a big, too high believer, played
Speaker 4: a lot of Fangio style quarters and things like that,
Speaker 4: so they.
Speaker 2: Played a lot of light boxes. They played a lot
Speaker 2: light defense.
Speaker 4: So I don't know if that was necessarily on the
Speaker 4: defensive line coach that that's just how they wanted to
Speaker 4: play defense, right, like that was their brand.
Speaker 1: Which isn't gonna be the case I would imagine under Covington.
Speaker 4: No, but I'm not overly concerned about that because they
Speaker 4: do still have Covington and Mayo in the building, and
Speaker 4: they obviously have been scheming a great run defense for
Speaker 4: the last couple of years. So it's it's I like,
Speaker 4: you know, another kind of experienced guy, another guy that
Speaker 4: that's been around and and has you know, shown his
Speaker 4: muscle a little bit there and developing players in Green Bay.
Speaker 4: You know, they've gone into decent amount out of that
Speaker 4: defensive line. So I'm encouraged by that one, and I
Speaker 4: think it's really nice that that Brian will be back.
Speaker 4: I think that the one thing that was a little
Speaker 4: bit concerning about the defensive staff was that they weren't
Speaker 4: you know, they had DeMarcus Covington, they had Drod Mayo,
Speaker 4: but they really had nobody that had secondary experience back
Speaker 4: yet in this system. You know, Steve was obviously a
Speaker 4: secondary coach for a while. You don't know if Brian's
Speaker 4: coming back, and then you don't know if Pelgreno's coming back.
Speaker 4: I Reese tweeted out a couple of days ago that
Speaker 4: like Projection. Remember we talked about it briefly and he
Speaker 4: had Brian on there, and then he confirmed last night
Speaker 4: that Brian's coming back. So something tells me that Mike
Speaker 4: is hearing whispers that Pelgrino might be coming back also,
Speaker 4: So I think that would be encouraging if both of
Speaker 4: those guys are back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Mike Pellegrino's done a great job Patriots
Speaker 1: cornbacks last year, they weren't great, but that was just
Speaker 1: for reasons outside his control. I's side of Mike Pelgrino's control.
Speaker 1: But you look at what they did, you know, just
Speaker 1: just churning some of these slate around guys out or
Speaker 1: free agent pickups out. I mean, look, no it's not
Speaker 1: the you know, the biggest example, but even a guy
Speaker 1: like Alex Austin last year, who they got after Thanksgiving
Speaker 1: and he was making plas in December. Like Mike Pellegrino
Speaker 1: does a good job and I'd love to see him back.
Speaker 1: I think Jeremy Springer was hired last time we did
Speaker 1: the show, so I don't know if you have any
Speaker 1: more thoughts on him. I'm still it was the assistant
Speaker 1: for the worst ranked special teams unit that really didn't
Speaker 1: allocate any resources towards special teams. Let's see what happened.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we all assume Matthews later is
Speaker 1: going to retire, but let's see kind of how that
Speaker 1: unit shakes out personnel wise. That's a pretty personal dependent role.
Speaker 1: I mean, they all are. But we'll see what happens there.
Speaker 1: I think you kind of wait and see with that one,
Speaker 1: because he obviously wasn't in a great situation last year
Speaker 1: and it didn't go well last year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I agree with that, all.
Speaker 1: Right, Front office, and then we'll go to the phones
Speaker 1: in your emails. You got a bunch of emails today,
Speaker 1: plus your calls eight five to five, pats five hundred.
Speaker 1: But front office, we finally got the answer to the
Speaker 1: question yesterday, and Evan, excuse me, I want to start
Speaker 1: with this. I don't care. I do not care if
Speaker 1: the Patriots name a GM anymore. I couldn't care less
Speaker 1: if the papers were giving out that title.
Speaker 2: That's what I mean, Give him the title.
Speaker 1: I don't care. It's it's give him the title, don't
Speaker 1: it's academic. There's so many people. Yeah, yes, they were pissed,
Speaker 1: like oh, but they still don't have a GM. No,
Speaker 1: that's what that report was. I've talked about this Evan
Speaker 1: final say roster control. That's what matters. Call him the GM,
Speaker 1: call him the director, player personnel, call him the prince
Speaker 1: in New England. I don't care. Call him for breakfast.
Speaker 1: I don't care what you call him. They have the
Speaker 1: structure in place. That's what mattered. That's what was important.
Speaker 1: That's what we learned yesterday. That was not an incomplete report.
Speaker 1: The titles will come. It was reported yesterday by a
Speaker 1: couple of people, Andrew Callahan, Mark Daniels that the titles
Speaker 1: are still being worked out. They all know what they're doing,
Speaker 1: regardless of what the title is. You know, call him
Speaker 1: lead mechanic. Matt grow knows what he's doing. Elliot Wolf
Speaker 1: knows what he's doing. Cam Williams knows what he's doing.
Speaker 1: Pat Stewart knows what he's doing. They all know what
Speaker 1: they're doing. It's been organized. The titles will come. They
Speaker 1: probably won't get reported for a couple months after their renownce,
Speaker 1: so they will know him in the building before we do.
Speaker 1: I don't care whether we know the titles or not.
Speaker 1: The hierarchies in place. It's Elliott Wolf's show. He has
Speaker 1: final say. Matt Grow is still going to run the
Speaker 1: scouting department. So ironically, their titles from last year basically
Speaker 1: flipped when Grow was the director of player Personnel and
Speaker 1: Wolf was the director of scouting. Those are still they're
Speaker 1: listed titles. Those are basically holdovers from last year. Those
Speaker 1: are basically their twenty three titles. So yeah, you flip those.
Speaker 1: Alonzo high Smith loved the hire first off, certified badass. Yes,
Speaker 1: played at the U back when that meant something, won
Speaker 1: a title. Was their leading rusher in the eighties. You
Speaker 1: in the eighties. Third overall pick. So a guy that
Speaker 1: knows a thing or two about the third overall pick,
Speaker 1: which the Patriots obviously we'll need to learn a lot
Speaker 1: about here in the next couple of months. A guy
Speaker 1: that's seen a lot of football in a lot of
Speaker 1: different places, in a lot of different settings, in a
Speaker 1: lot of different roles, going to be a very valuable resource.
Speaker 1: My one question, and this is maybe more semantics than
Speaker 1: anything else. After I just railed against the semantics of titles.
Speaker 1: I get the hypocrisy here, But that report yesterday from
Speaker 1: rap Report. All right, so GROW's gonna run the big picture,
Speaker 1: or sorry, Wolt's gonna run the big picture. GROW's gonna
Speaker 1: run scouting. High Smith pat Stewart are kind of there
Speaker 1: a senior advisors all around. I think Pat Stewart probably
Speaker 1: is your assistant director of Player Personnel, VP of Player Personnel,
Speaker 1: something like that. High Smith just got like a senior
Speaker 1: executive advisor title. Cameron Williams not included in that report,
Speaker 1: which stood out to me a little bit because he's
Speaker 1: somebody I know has been thought of highly in the building.
Speaker 1: It brings the angle of having been a Division one
Speaker 1: football player. Obviously, his previous ties the organization through his dad,
Speaker 1: somebody who had felt like was building a lot of
Speaker 1: momentum in the organization, was at the Senior Bowl. So
Speaker 1: it's not like he's not a part of the front
Speaker 1: office anymore. I just thought it was interesting he was
Speaker 1: absent in that, but overall we got the answer. If
Speaker 1: the plan was to keep it in house, I think
Speaker 1: this is the right structure to do that. And that's
Speaker 1: I guess that's my front office rant. Go ahead.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think the first place to start for
Speaker 4: me is with Elliott Wolf and you talk to people
Speaker 4: and you know, I was talking to people at the
Speaker 4: Senior Bowl.
Speaker 2: But when you talk to people, this is a long
Speaker 2: time coming for Elliott.
Speaker 4: Wolf to have a chance to run a football, run
Speaker 4: a teams as the general manager whatever you know, title
Speaker 4: you want to use, but technically as the general manager.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: He he spent fourteen years in Green Bay with his father,
Speaker 4: coming through the ranks there, you know, paid his dues,
Speaker 4: started from the bottom, went all the way up to
Speaker 4: Director of player Personnel, director of football operations. In twenty eighteen,
Speaker 4: Ted Thompson retires right right, it retires in green Bay,
Speaker 4: and it was really between Elliott Wolf and Bridan Gouden
Speaker 4: Kut's to replace him, and the Packers ended up going
Speaker 4: with Goody obviously, and Elliott Wolf goes to Cleveland under
Speaker 4: John Dorsey, is the assistant general manager there for a
Speaker 4: couple of years and then comes to New England and
Speaker 4: works up at you know, the Totem Pole here in
Speaker 4: New England. So we're talking about a guy after I
Speaker 4: just laid out, like, forget about who his father is
Speaker 4: for a second, because you know, I think that holds
Speaker 4: some weight too when your your father is a Hall
Speaker 4: of Fame executive too.
Speaker 2: But you know, forget about that for a second.
Speaker 4: I just described like twenty years of NFL front office experience.
Speaker 1: He's a real GM resume.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent one hundred percent real GM resume.
Speaker 4: And I think that that's what is important to remember,
Speaker 4: because I think a lot of people are saying, well,
Speaker 4: you know, why didn't they didn't go outside the building again,
Speaker 4: and it's this internal promotion and it's just Ron Wolfe's
Speaker 4: kid and like all this type of stuff. No, the
Speaker 4: Elliott Wolf has paid his dues, Elliott Wolf has been
Speaker 4: around the block, Elliott Wolf has a great reputation around
Speaker 4: the league.
Speaker 2: I think he's gonna do a really good job with this.
Speaker 2: And I think one of the big things.
Speaker 1: Do you think there's a chance if they didn't promote
Speaker 1: Elliot Wolf, somebody else might might have hired him as
Speaker 1: an AGM or a GM.
Speaker 4: I think it's definitely possible, and I think he would
Speaker 4: have been looking elsewhere.
Speaker 2: I know that he did look else for was that two.
Speaker 4: Years ago that he interviewed for some positions outside the
Speaker 4: building or maybe that was last year. The point is
Speaker 4: that he is more than qualified to run the Patriots,
Speaker 4: more than qualified. And I think the other thing that
Speaker 4: you look at is that over the last couple of
Speaker 4: years they've put macro a little bit more in the
Speaker 4: public eye as director of player Personnel. He's done some
Speaker 4: press conferences, you know, he's been around the media a
Speaker 4: little bit, and frankly, it's it's not becoming for him,
Speaker 4: Like he's just not very good at the public facing stuff.
Speaker 4: And when you're the top of the totem pole in
Speaker 4: the front office and you're the top executive in an organization,
Speaker 4: that sort of thing matters.
Speaker 2: And your station, Alex, how many times has your station.
Speaker 4: Played if you want fast Guys draft Fast Guys, right, Like,
Speaker 4: how many times have we played that? And I think
Speaker 4: that at this point, Elliott Wolf, I think is a
Speaker 4: little bit more statesman. He he's a little bit more
Speaker 4: of a guy that can than can handle himself in
Speaker 4: those public settings and is a little bit more impressive
Speaker 4: in that manner. And so in a lot of ways,
Speaker 4: I look at this and I think that this sort
Speaker 4: of hierarchy in the front office is really the way
Speaker 4: it should have been all along. But for most likely
Speaker 4: because Bill just you know, you know, that's just Bill's mo.
Speaker 4: Bill promoted mac rowe to director or player personnel because
Speaker 4: that was one of his guys, right like that he.
Speaker 2: Made in this league.
Speaker 4: But in reality, Elliott Wolf has been doing a lot
Speaker 4: of the quote unquote GM responsibilities behind the scenes, you know,
Speaker 4: negotiating contracts and speaking to free agents and things like that.
Speaker 4: So now everybody gets to go back to their comfort zones,
Speaker 4: Like everybody gets to do what they actually should be doing,
Speaker 4: which is Macro is essentially a college scout. And I
Speaker 4: think this is where your your question about Cameron Williams
Speaker 4: does become interesting to me because when I look at this,
Speaker 4: it isn't Macro just basically like a college scouting director.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's director of Amateur Scouting.
Speaker 4: It just doesn't really seem like he's you know, that's
Speaker 4: the title that Cameron Williams has currently.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, so what's or maybe grows the director of scouting.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's amateur and pro?
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 4: I just I look at the pro side of it,
Speaker 4: and I think that that's where Pat Stewart and Elliott
Speaker 4: Wolf have really made their hay in the league.
Speaker 2: And I think that Elliott Wolf is going to be
Speaker 2: running free agency.
Speaker 4: I think that he is going to have uh the
Speaker 4: biggest hand in that and and and defining identifying those players.
Speaker 2: So I think there, you know, there's a couple of things.
Speaker 1: That are.
Speaker 4: The bottom line is is that are they good at
Speaker 4: picking players or are they not right? Like, that's what
Speaker 4: we're going to find out that in whether or not
Speaker 4: that that remains to be seen. But I just think
Speaker 4: that it's important to keep in mind that Elliott Wolf
Speaker 4: has definitely earned this opportunity and is somebody that a
Speaker 4: lot of people around the league are like, yep, like
Speaker 4: you know, finally, you know, someone has finally given him
Speaker 4: the keys and that makes a lot of sense and
Speaker 4: and things like that.
Speaker 2: So I'm encouraged by it. I think that it's also
Speaker 2: encouraging that.
Speaker 4: He's not he's really not of the Belichick school, like
Speaker 4: he's been with Belichick the last couple of years, but
Speaker 4: that's not where he came up. No, he was brought
Speaker 4: up as a Packers scout, you know, like he's a
Speaker 4: Packers guy. So I'm encouraged by it.
Speaker 1: All Right, we got a bunch of calls, a bunch
Speaker 1: of emails, Let's get through some of these. Is basically
Speaker 1: gonna be a second hand for the program today. So
Speaker 1: if you want to call an eight five five pass
Speaker 1: five hundred who do have one open line will open
Speaker 1: some more up as we take these calls, starting with
Speaker 1: our friend Eldred in North Carolina. Eldrick, good morning, Good morning.
Speaker 3: So let's tell y'all doing. I love you, man, I
Speaker 3: don't wanna pick with you again. Okay, I understand the
Speaker 3: stematic you're saying that Drake May fits whatever I could do.
Speaker 3: Are we got this a coordinator? But my but my
Speaker 3: question is what's making him a good fit? Cause, like
Speaker 3: you said, you got working him as a thrower, and
Speaker 3: like your buddy Bart said, the pure pastor is I'm
Speaker 3: still gonna stick with Pennis and I, you know, like
Speaker 3: I said, I think he's a better quarterback. And then
Speaker 3: Williams don't want to come come to New England or Chicago,
Speaker 3: but he get drafted, probably want to get traded. But again,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna ask you why you think May is a
Speaker 3: good fit for everybody in North Carolina saying he's another
Speaker 3: hes gonna be another Wilson.
Speaker 1: Out All right? Thanks to call? All right, all right,
Speaker 1: thanks to call. I want to clarify someone. When we
Speaker 1: were talking about, you know, who's the better fit? I
Speaker 1: was just between May and Daniels in that question, Caleb
Speaker 1: Williams is going at the top of the draft. Michael
Speaker 1: Pennox would also be a tremendous fit, I think in
Speaker 1: Alex Van Pelt's offense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 1: If you want to clarify on Drake May.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, look, the big the biggest things with
Speaker 4: Drake May that are positives are his ability to throw
Speaker 4: in the middle of the field and his vertical throws
Speaker 4: right like, he's a very good vertical thrower.
Speaker 2: Drop it in the bucket, drive the ball down the field,
Speaker 2: drive it up the.
Speaker 4: Seam, hit the post, you know those types of things,
Speaker 4: And that's what this offense is all about. You know,
Speaker 4: this offense is let's play action, let's bootleg off of it.
Speaker 4: We got the big post down the field. If it's got,
Speaker 4: if there's no safety up top, we're gonna throw it
Speaker 4: over the top and we're gonna try to hit the
Speaker 4: big play. That that's Drake May right there. That that's
Speaker 4: that's something that he can do. He's got the mobility
Speaker 4: to get outside the pocket, he can throw on the
Speaker 4: move on the bootlegs like all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: I agree with you.
Speaker 4: I think Penix would be a decent fit in this
Speaker 4: offense as well. If I had to rank it of
Speaker 4: who were the best fits in this offense, I would
Speaker 4: say number one would be Drake May.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't be May. I might say Penis would
Speaker 2: be number two because of how good of a vertical.
Speaker 1: Thrower he is. He's kind of Day two Drake May
Speaker 1: in a way, isn't he. I Mean he doesn't have
Speaker 1: the mobility, but that's why he's Day too. But I
Speaker 1: mean that's a lot of Washington's offense was play action
Speaker 1: deep shots because hey, Dylan Johnson, who's a great running back.
Speaker 1: They'd run the ball with Dylan Johnson, sucked the opposing
Speaker 1: defense up and then hit it over the top. Now
Speaker 1: it was more at a shotgun and there wasn't as
Speaker 1: much of that that bootleg stuff. But the core concepts,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of similar quick they got They got
Speaker 1: to the end goal the same way. They just approached
Speaker 1: it a little differently. They just kind of same picture,
Speaker 1: just a different frame on it.
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, and look, I don't know what the
Speaker 4: people down there in North Carolina are saying, Elder, but
Speaker 4: you know, I I.
Speaker 1: They all kind of trust myself on this they all
Speaker 1: thought Sam Hall and Mitch Trubisky were going to be excellent,
Speaker 1: so maybe we maybe we flip it. Let's go to
Speaker 1: Nick in Omaha. Nick.
Speaker 6: Hey, you guys, that's it going good. Okay, I got
Speaker 6: a question for Evan and uh it's a bit of
Speaker 6: a nerdy exos question. So I feel like you can
Speaker 6: have some fun here, Alex. You can, you know, feel
Speaker 6: free to time and it doesn't as meks, But okay,
Speaker 6: So I I I played football like my whole life,
Speaker 6: and I've watched it a whole life, so I just
Speaker 6: like I know a little bit about football. I'm not
Speaker 6: the smartest guy in the room, but I I play
Speaker 6: just play too much Madden. I played like a ton
Speaker 6: of Madden. And it's it's it's not even for like
Speaker 6: the multiplayer, it's just purely for the franchise set and contracts.
Speaker 1: You sound more like me question than question. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I I just was I was starting this franchise
Speaker 6: and you know, you took your scheme and everything and
Speaker 6: going through the offense, and I feel like I know
Speaker 6: a lot about offensive schemes a West Coast you know power,
Speaker 6: you know, zone run, whatever, But when it came to defense,
Speaker 6: I feel like I was pretty ignorant on a lot
Speaker 6: of those titles, so I was curious in your opinion,
Speaker 6: you know, if it's like a base four three or
Speaker 6: you know whatever, just in today's NFL as it's mainly
Speaker 6: a passing league. Do you is there a certain scheme
Speaker 6: that you feel is the best to kind of utilize
Speaker 6: your defense with. And then I mean, also the main
Speaker 6: reason why I'm bring us to the show is because
Speaker 6: I'm curious how this relates to the pagotes, like what
Speaker 6: we're seeing in the past and what we can see
Speaker 6: in the future with our defense. I will probably have
Speaker 6: a ton of follow up questions, but I'll just take
Speaker 6: it off the air and listen in. But thanks guys, right,
Speaker 6: thanks Nick.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you this. Sevan Madden still makes you run
Speaker 1: base three four or four three like way too much.
Speaker 1: Their playbooks are not caught up to the modern So
Speaker 1: when you pick like three four, there's like you can
Speaker 1: four three four three over four three, disguise three four
Speaker 1: over three four, diskuys things like that. You really have
Speaker 1: to pick because it's not so easy to be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is my pick, but I'm just gonna go in
Speaker 1: in Nickel or I'm just gonna go and die the
Speaker 1: whole time. So however, that frames your answer. I think
Speaker 1: he's asking what defense he should run in Madden, right,
Speaker 1: I like, I like three four disguis personally, that's what
Speaker 1: I usually that I.
Speaker 4: Can't answer for you because I don't know which one's
Speaker 4: the most effective.
Speaker 2: But honestly, I think of defensive schemes.
Speaker 4: Nowadays more from like the back to the front instead
Speaker 4: of the front of the back, because everything is about
Speaker 4: stopping the past, right. So there's really there's three schools,
Speaker 4: but like there's really two main ones, and then one
Speaker 4: is just kind of like Mike McDonald and you know
Speaker 4: him being ridiculous, right, But they're the main schools right
Speaker 4: now are like the Belichick's Disciple school of single.
Speaker 2: High man coverage, you know that sort of thing.
Speaker 4: And then the other school is kind of the Fangio people, right,
Speaker 4: who are running the palms and the corners and the
Speaker 4: too high stuff. So I think a lot of the
Speaker 4: league is going more towards Fangio, and even the Patriots
Speaker 4: have run a little bit more too high coverage recently.
Speaker 4: But I think the one thing that is definitely key
Speaker 4: for a lot of these defenses is how do you
Speaker 4: then you know, take it and then marry the pass
Speaker 4: rush to that. And I think a lot of defenses
Speaker 4: nowadays are running a lot more exotic blitzes, and this
Speaker 4: is I think a lot of the main reason why
Speaker 4: defense has caught up to offense a little bit is
Speaker 4: because they have gotten to a little of some more
Speaker 4: answers on the defensive side of the ball for how
Speaker 4: to generate pressure without sacrificing numbers in the back end.
Speaker 4: Because before it was like, all right, well we can
Speaker 4: blitz five or six guys, but then we only have
Speaker 4: five or six guys in coverage to cover up everything.
Speaker 4: Right now it's we're gonna show blitz, We're only going
Speaker 4: to actually rush four, but you still are gonna have
Speaker 4: to treat it like a blitz, and then we are
Speaker 4: we still have our seven man coverage structure. So I
Speaker 4: would say that, you know, personally, I still think that
Speaker 4: the that the Belichick are now probably more the Mayo
Speaker 4: defense in the Covington defense of the Patriots are gonna
Speaker 4: run next year. There's still definitely a place for that
Speaker 4: in the league. But if I had to say, the
Speaker 4: prevalent scheme, like what's the Shanahan scheme. But on defense
Speaker 4: right now, it's it's definitely Fangio's defense, and I think.
Speaker 1: That makes it. I've said, well, maybe it's not so
Speaker 1: much Fangio, but the like Seattle Cover three, right, that
Speaker 1: zone thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so Seattle like started it and then right you know,
Speaker 4: teams got so good at taking down Seattle's Cover three
Speaker 4: that they had to. You know, a lot of those
Speaker 4: Seattle three teams have sort of moreped the more quarters
Speaker 4: based defenses and to kind of combat some of the
Speaker 4: things that they were seeing.
Speaker 1: It's just it's funny you compare it to Shanahan though,
Speaker 1: because we've talked about this off the year before that
Speaker 1: the Seattle three is too cornerbacks what the Shanahan offense
Speaker 1: is to quarterbacks. And not to take anything away from
Speaker 1: sauce Gardner, but you look at what sauce Gardner's asked
Speaker 1: to do, and of course he's dominant at it because
Speaker 1: he's an elite athlete and he's basically just asked to
Speaker 1: be an elite athlete. And I think it's like every
Speaker 1: system is meant to prioritize and emphasize. Certainly, that's just
Speaker 1: how it works. Every system is meant to, all right,
Speaker 1: we're gonna make it easier on this group in the
Speaker 1: trade office, is gonna be harder on this group, but
Speaker 1: we're gonna build this group up more. Like we talked
Speaker 1: about how the old Patriots offense puts so much, so much,
Speaker 1: so much emphasis on the quarterback, and then you have
Speaker 1: the Shanahan offense that puts more emphasis on the receivers
Speaker 1: in the running backs to kind of beat the playmaker.
Speaker 1: It's the same thing on defense as well, and it
Speaker 1: feels like, who are you putting that emphasis on. Is
Speaker 1: it gonna be on the pass rushers, is gonna be
Speaker 1: on the corners, is gonna be the linebackers? Like it's
Speaker 1: the same kind of thing. Personally, I still think if
Speaker 1: you can run man coverage, run it. I still think
Speaker 1: man coverage is the more effective coverage. But the reason
Speaker 1: everybody doesn't run it is it's hard and you really
Speaker 1: need to have the right personnel where you can maybe
Speaker 1: get away with a little less if you're in zone
Speaker 1: because the scheme itself sort of elevates. But part of
Speaker 1: that is you have to have a really good pass rush.
Speaker 1: For years, the Patriots got by not necessarily having elite
Speaker 1: pass rushers because their corners were so good, didn't matter
Speaker 1: if the quarterback had five seconds in the pocket because
Speaker 1: nobody was getting open for five seconds. And then in
Speaker 1: the last couple of years they've kind of flipped where
Speaker 1: the corners haven't been as good. But you have Matt Chewton,
Speaker 1: you have Josh Shoojay, you have Christian Barmore. So maybe
Speaker 1: the corners can only cover for three seconds, but that's
Speaker 1: fine because you're getting to the quarterback in two and
Speaker 1: a half. That's how I view defensive football. It's basically,
Speaker 1: who are you putting the onus on in your system?
Speaker 1: Who are you putting the onus on to elevate? Is
Speaker 1: it up front or is it on the back end.
Speaker 1: As long as you have one of the two, you'll
Speaker 1: be in okay shape. And I mean, you have great
Speaker 1: defenses that can do both where you can get to
Speaker 1: the quarterback in two seconds and have the thing covered
Speaker 1: for you know, five six seconds down the field. But
Speaker 1: that's you know, one or two defense that we're talking
Speaker 1: about the Baltimore Ravens at this point, we're talking about
Speaker 1: having Justin Mattabeka one level and Kyle Hamilton at another,
Speaker 1: with Patrick Queen in the middle.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, i'd be interesting to see, especially if they
Speaker 4: win the Super Bowl on Sunday. You know Steve Spagnolo
Speaker 4: and what he's done in Kansas City with that defense.
Speaker 4: It's an exotic scheme. They blitzed like crazy, They spin
Speaker 4: the dial like crazy. They put a lot of stress
Speaker 4: on their dbs to tackle in space and playing on
Speaker 4: islands and things like that, and that's why they you know,
Speaker 4: Trent McDuffie was a great pick for them because he
Speaker 4: that's what he does. You know, he's a great tackler
Speaker 4: and a great play speed and that.
Speaker 2: Type of stuff.
Speaker 4: Well, it'd be interesting to see if they that's you know,
Speaker 4: people try to emulate that a little bit more. I
Speaker 4: don't know if you can without spags, Like that's sort
Speaker 4: of the difficult part there, kind of like when I
Speaker 4: brought up Mike McDonald earlier with Baltimore, well now Seattle.
Speaker 4: So it'd be interesting to see how that sort of
Speaker 4: moves forward, because I do think that there is a
Speaker 4: lot of good things about the Fangio scheme. There's a
Speaker 4: lot of good things about Bill's scheme obviously, but those
Speaker 4: things are are starting to kind of pass by to
Speaker 4: some more blitz heavy, more exotic type of defenses.
Speaker 1: All right, let's go. So Eldridge spoke for the entire
Speaker 1: both states of the Carolinas and said, don't take Drake May.
Speaker 1: Anthony is in South Carolina. Does he have a rebuttal
Speaker 1: or does he agree? Anthony?
Speaker 7: Hey, good morning fellos.
Speaker 1: How you doing it? Morning?
Speaker 2: Good?
Speaker 7: That's kind a quick question. Is the uh, the comparison
Speaker 7: between Drake May and uh jend and Dams like a
Speaker 7: big difference between their passing ability. I don't know if
Speaker 7: I believe I started correctly that jend and Dams had
Speaker 7: a better passing year than Joe Burrow.
Speaker 1: And also they go ahead, do you guys.
Speaker 7: Think that uh, we should go to a player more
Speaker 7: like Jenden Damns if the office's line isn't I say?
Speaker 7: Great that he can like move and take off because
Speaker 7: he looks pretty fast on tape.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's he's definitely fast, Anthony, thanks for all he
Speaker 1: should if he runs the combine, he's gonna run in
Speaker 1: the four fours. As for the I don't think Daniels
Speaker 1: had a better ear than Burrow. I mean that's one
Speaker 1: of him and Cam Newton in twenty eleven, or like
Speaker 1: the two greatest quarterback seasons since the turnth century. As
Speaker 1: for the comparison between him and May, I think Daniels
Speaker 1: is more of an outside the numbers thrower, whereas May's
Speaker 1: more evans as you've talked about the middle of the
Speaker 1: field guy, I think that's probably they both have big arms,
Speaker 1: and they both can throw on the run. I think
Speaker 1: the chief difference is where they're throwing to.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just look at Jayden Daniels and has nothing
Speaker 4: to do with like his passing ability. Like I don't
Speaker 4: want to get caught up in all that, but it
Speaker 4: just when I look at Jayden Daniels, I look at
Speaker 4: somebody that ideally, it's a lot like going back and
Speaker 4: we used the Deshaun Watson you know, kind of conversation
Speaker 4: earlier when we were talking about Alex van Pelp, when
Speaker 4: Deshaun Watson was in Houston with Bill O'Brien. They they
Speaker 4: basically took the Patriots twenty eleven offense and said, we're
Speaker 4: just gonna put to Shaan Watson in the gun, in
Speaker 4: the spread, and he's just gonna make something happen, Like
Speaker 4: if there's something in structure there, then he's gonna take it,
Speaker 4: make quick decision.
Speaker 2: With the football. If it's not, then he's gonna run
Speaker 2: around and make a play.
Speaker 4: And if I'm Jayden Daniels, I think that that's where
Speaker 4: I would much rather build the offense with him. I
Speaker 4: at first, I, like I said earlier, with guys like
Speaker 4: Jalen Hurts, Lamar Jackson, I would start with the option
Speaker 4: stuff as well. Like I think it's important to get
Speaker 4: him into that sort of offense right out of the
Speaker 4: gate too.
Speaker 2: But he's built to be in a spread offense like
Speaker 2: he should be in the gun spread field, you know,
Speaker 2: option style.
Speaker 4: Let's just pick him apart that way, Whereas I think
Speaker 4: Drake may is a little bit more of that like
Speaker 4: traditional pocket passer, where you know he's somebody that is
Speaker 4: going to run play action room under center. He's somebody
Speaker 4: that is going to be able to read the middle
Speaker 4: of the field and pick apart the middle of the field.
Speaker 4: He's somebody that's going to be able to maybe early on,
Speaker 4: have a better feel for like timing and anticipation and
Speaker 4: reads in the middle of the field. I think that's
Speaker 4: the one thing when you watch Jayden Daniels on film
Speaker 4: who I love, by the way, like I feel like
Speaker 4: I am like people always think I'm like trashing him.
Speaker 2: When you watch him on film, though he passes.
Speaker 4: Up a lot of open throws between the numbers, like
Speaker 4: crossing routes and cuts things like that, and he doesn't
Speaker 4: always have the best timing in between the numbers. So
Speaker 4: I just look at him as somebody that I want
Speaker 4: to be in that spread formation, to be in the
Speaker 4: gun and just let him cook, right, Whereas with Dreg May,
Speaker 4: I think that he's a little bit more of that,
Speaker 4: like traditional.
Speaker 2: NFL passer. There's nothing wrong with being Jaden Daniels.
Speaker 4: It's just if I'm and see I'm making sure that
Speaker 4: I'm putting him in a position to succeed. And I
Speaker 4: don't necessarily think that that is by making him run
Speaker 4: like seven step drop play action bootleg nonsense, like, I
Speaker 4: just don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think that that's gonna help him out.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, who's a better fit in
Speaker 1: Cliff Kingsbury's offense, Oh, Jade and Daniels one hund Okay,
Speaker 1: So the reason I asked that, And I'm sure a
Speaker 1: lot of people can tell where I'm going, So say,
Speaker 1: Kayleb Williams goes one one. Yeah, it sounds like he's
Speaker 1: going to a lot of people wrote off, Drake made
Speaker 1: to the Patriots when they got the third pick. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just Cliff go to go to Scott h Scott Peters,
Speaker 1: Cliff go to Adam Peters and say hey, jayde and
Speaker 1: Daniels my guy and then basically deliver the Patriots Drake
Speaker 1: maya three Like I I think that's on the tape
Speaker 1: something I've thought about or the other thing. Does he
Speaker 1: go there and say you need a trade for Caleb Williams.
Speaker 1: The Paris Socides take the hall build around justin fields.
Speaker 1: They they take Marvin Harrison at two one way or
Speaker 1: the other. I think Cliff Kingsbury there's a good chance
Speaker 1: he delivers the Patriots. Drake May. Him going to Washington
Speaker 1: delivers the Patriots. Drake May. I think there's a real
Speaker 1: there's a real shot at that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know that.
Speaker 4: Look, we've we've gone back and forth at times about
Speaker 4: Kyler and if we think Kyler is good or not
Speaker 4: and whatever, But bottom line is, when Kyler was healthy
Speaker 4: in Arizona, Cliff was getting a.
Speaker 1: Lot out of Kyler, all right, But the difference and
Speaker 1: a runner and I look.
Speaker 4: At the way that they ran the offense in in Arizona,
Speaker 4: which was basically just an adapted air raid with the
Speaker 4: option runs and things like that sprinkled in there as well.
Speaker 4: Like that's Jayden Daniels would drive in that offense. He'd
Speaker 4: go crazy in that.
Speaker 1: Offense, and it's basically what he's running it, right.
Speaker 4: I mean it's it's I That's why I've always liked
Speaker 4: Cliff is because I think.
Speaker 2: That his off and.
Speaker 4: This is a lot of people have said all Cliff
Speaker 4: Kingsbury keeps failing up and like all, you know, like
Speaker 4: he's not actually successful and gets these jobs. I think
Speaker 4: the reason why he gets these jobs is because his
Speaker 4: offense fits the modern style of quarterback, Like when you
Speaker 4: get a guy like a Caleb Williams, like a Jayden Daniels,
Speaker 4: Like when you get your hands on a guy like that.
Speaker 4: As an organization, Cliff Kingsbury's offense, he's running a college
Speaker 4: style offense in the NFL, Right, that is going to
Speaker 4: bring out the best in those types of guys. So yeah,
Speaker 4: I would definitely. I don't really see the fit too
Speaker 4: much with with Drake May. Honestly, with with Cliff. That's
Speaker 4: not saying that Drake May would be terrible because I think,
Speaker 4: you know, he's got a chance to be good regardless,
Speaker 4: but I just think that it's Jayden Daniels is definitely
Speaker 4: the answer.
Speaker 1: All Right, let's go to Ryan in OK. C Ryan,
Speaker 1: how you doing?
Speaker 5: Hey?
Speaker 6: So, I had two thoughts question for you.
Speaker 5: First of all, I haven't been able to call in
Speaker 5: for a couple of weeks, Evan. I really I really
Speaker 5: liked your article you had with all the former linebackers
Speaker 5: detailing the drawd Mayo hiring. I had a chance to
Speaker 5: meet with with Brandon Spikes at us UH just a
Speaker 5: couple of months ago, and that man, that guy makes
Speaker 5: you want to eat a bowl of nails for breakfast.
Speaker 6: He's he's sick.
Speaker 5: There's some really clips with him talking about you know,
Speaker 5: the hardest he's ever been hit in his career was
Speaker 5: from Brandon Spikes in practice. You know that that dude's legit.
Speaker 5: So so I appreciated that right up. So with the
Speaker 5: with the news on the Elliott bools, you know, taking
Speaker 5: the reins on that. I've been thinking a lot about
Speaker 5: that article or I guess the the sweet that it
Speaker 5: came out about if Elliott both takes over, they're gonna
Speaker 5: give a serious look to Joe Alt at number three.
Speaker 5: So I've been digging a little bit into those Packers
Speaker 5: drafts while he was in there system, and and man,
Speaker 5: they really really attacked a lion in the first round.
Speaker 5: But just as much as they did that, they always
Speaker 5: nailed receivers in the second and third round. I mean,
Speaker 5: Jordy Nelson, Randall, Cobb, Bonte Adam were all drafted while
Speaker 5: Elliott Wolf was in that front office. Not saying that
Speaker 5: those are his picks, but but that kind of feels
Speaker 5: like the model that he's been thrown in and maybe
Speaker 5: what he tries to do here. But then my last question,
Speaker 5: and I'll take it off the air, is obviously there's
Speaker 5: there's the big three needs, quarterback, wide receiver, and tackle.
Speaker 5: I'm curious what you guys think the approach will be
Speaker 5: in some of those tertiary needs, specifically free safety and
Speaker 5: running back death.
Speaker 1: All right, thanks to car Ryan on the second point,
Speaker 1: He's it's a great point that that's how those Packers
Speaker 1: seems built. Now, they never needed a quarterback when Elliott
Speaker 1: Oak was there, so that reshaped the discussion. Would he
Speaker 1: go quarterback at the top of the board. But but
Speaker 1: this was the whole reason Aaron Rodgers left. They wouldn't
Speaker 1: draft him a receiver in the first round. Do you
Speaker 1: remember that? Yeah, they just wouldn't do it.
Speaker 2: And I the second round isn't good enough. It has
Speaker 2: to be fair, right, you know.
Speaker 1: I've been read in the face about this. Marvin Harrison
Speaker 1: is not the only receiver in the draft. Believe it
Speaker 1: or not. It's not the only good receiver in the draft.
Speaker 1: Despite what some people may think. This is such a
Speaker 1: good wide receiver draft, and people are petrified of Taekwon Thornton,
Speaker 1: and I get it. The answer to missing on a
Speaker 1: second round receiver is not to stop drafting second round receivers.
Speaker 1: It's to change your approach, Recognize me you did wrong,
Speaker 1: and go back at it. And you now have a
Speaker 1: front office and a staff that has identified wide receiver
Speaker 1: talent in the second round at a high level. It
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you can throw your eye you close your
Speaker 1: eyes and throw a dart and hit a pro bowler.
Speaker 1: But I trust them to find a guy on day two.
Speaker 1: I trust the new regime to find a wide receiver
Speaker 1: on day two, which opens you up on day one
Speaker 1: to the quarterback or the tackle. The report that that
Speaker 1: they were gonna seriously consider Joalt at three with Elliott Wolf,
Speaker 1: I mean they should seriously be considering everybody. I didn't
Speaker 1: read a ton into that. I think that's just drafts
Speaker 1: and antics. His question or if you have any thoughts
Speaker 1: on that, and then we can get to his question.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would agree with that point that you just
Speaker 4: made about that report. And I'm not trying to pick
Speaker 4: on the report. I just at this point in the game,
Speaker 4: everybody's on the board, right.
Speaker 1: It's just that's just how draft season works.
Speaker 2: It's very early.
Speaker 4: We haven't even hit the combine yet, we haven't hit
Speaker 4: Pro Days, we haven't hit thirty visits.
Speaker 2: Like, we're very very early on in the process. And
Speaker 2: tackle is a big, big need for this team.
Speaker 4: We all know that.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, Joalt is definitely on the table at
Speaker 2: number three. Is he should be.
Speaker 4: He's He's one of the best players on the on
Speaker 4: the board. So I don't necessarily look too much into
Speaker 4: that either. In terms of their draft history in Green Bay,
Speaker 4: I think you make a good point that they never
Speaker 4: really needed the number one quarterback right like they had
Speaker 4: Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1: They didn't have to draft the guy and he wasn't
Speaker 1: there when they took he was already gone by the
Speaker 1: time they took love Wolf was Yeah, but.
Speaker 4: His father, Ron Wolf, one of his big like tenants,
Speaker 4: one of his huge philosophies as a team builder is
Speaker 4: that you should always be taking quarterbacks.
Speaker 2: Like I think Ron Wolf was quarterback every single year.
Speaker 4: I think was his was his whole thing, Like even
Speaker 4: if it was like a seventh round pick, you know,
Speaker 4: just you should always be adding quarterbacks to your room.
Speaker 4: And so I think that they would definitely still see
Speaker 4: the value in quarterback. But I know that people are
Speaker 4: going to hate it, and uh you know, I I
Speaker 4: go back with and forth with people about this on
Speaker 4: the show on Twitter, you know, all the time about tackle.
Speaker 4: But the bottom line is is that there's different ways
Speaker 4: to build a team. And the Detroit Lions, I think
Speaker 4: are a great example of a team and their their
Speaker 4: GM just went out in in the media. Did you
Speaker 4: see that Alex uh And uh And was trashing the
Speaker 4: media because back intoenty twenty one, everybody in Detroit wanted
Speaker 4: the Lions to draft Justin Fields, right, everybody wanted it was,
Speaker 4: you know one of them, the draft Justin Fields. They
Speaker 4: end up making the trade for Jared goff and they
Speaker 4: draft Penny Sewell, yeah, seventh overall. Good for him in
Speaker 4: the draft in twenty twenty one. Do you think the
Speaker 4: Lions are crying that they didn't draft justin Fields? No,
Speaker 4: Like you know, it's so, It's definitely a path, am
Speaker 4: I saying, is the path that.
Speaker 2: I would pick.
Speaker 4: Not necessarily, but if they said to us that, you
Speaker 4: know that we need to get better in the trenches,
Speaker 4: that you know, until we're better up front, the quarterback
Speaker 4: is going to struggle that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: There's definitely sound logic to that.
Speaker 1: All right, let's go. We got a bunch of emails.
Speaker 1: Let's run through some of these. Uh, Sam from Saint
Speaker 1: Catharine's I want to see us trade up for Caleb Williams.
Speaker 1: If you have the opportunity to get the best quarterback,
Speaker 1: you do it every time. Fastest way to rebuild is
Speaker 1: to hit on the quarterback, and he's by far the
Speaker 1: best one in recent years. I don't care if we
Speaker 1: have to trade number three and next year's first to
Speaker 1: go get him, next year's first round pick, whatever doesn't
Speaker 1: matter in the grand scale of things. If we have
Speaker 1: Kayleb Williams for the next fifteen years, I mean, it
Speaker 1: all sounds well and good. If it's this year's first
Speaker 1: and next year's first, I do it. That's not even
Speaker 1: gonna come close to what it's gonna take to get
Speaker 1: up there. If the Bears are even willing to trade
Speaker 1: it like you're talking about, they do not in theory,
Speaker 1: he's right if you get Caleb Williams, and Caleb Williams
Speaker 1: is a better player than Bryce Young, which kind of
Speaker 1: I know people are gonna have an issue with what
Speaker 1: I'm about to say, but you need to be able
Speaker 1: to the quarterback's only part of it. You still need
Speaker 1: to be able to add around the quarterback, and the
Speaker 1: Patriots don't exactly have the roster where they can just
Speaker 1: bump up at the quarterback and be good. They still
Speaker 1: need future assets. Yeah, Caleb Williams is a great prospect.
Speaker 1: I don't think Drake May and Jane Daniels are bad
Speaker 1: prospects though. So I it's gonna be again, if it's
Speaker 1: just this year's first, next year's first. Fine, you're probably
Speaker 1: talking about this year's first, this year's second, next year's first,
Speaker 1: next year second, and a player and that probably just
Speaker 1: gets you started.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I the conversation I think that we should be
Speaker 4: having around Chicago. And again, not necessarily the path that
Speaker 4: I would take, but something that is on the table
Speaker 4: is what you trade for justin fields, you know, I
Speaker 4: don't think that trading up to number one overall is
Speaker 4: a great way to go. I know, I agree with
Speaker 4: you that Caleb Williams is a better prospect than Bryce
Speaker 4: Young was, but that is the worst case scenario is
Speaker 4: to be the Carolina Panthers, where you have a quarterback
Speaker 4: that isn't good enough to elevate it all on his own,
Speaker 4: probably shouldn't need to anyways, Like that's not fair to
Speaker 4: ask of him anyways. And now Bradcetown is going into
Speaker 4: year two and I don't have a first round picked
Speaker 4: upgrade to roster for them, Like they're just in a
Speaker 4: tough spot from Carolina, and I just don't I would
Speaker 4: hate to see the Patriots end up there.
Speaker 1: Phil in North Carolina is a question for both of us.
Speaker 1: So his question for you, if Drake may superpower and
Speaker 1: carrying trait is his ability to read and hit the
Speaker 1: middle of the field. Are we then worried about how
Speaker 1: that carries over to the NFL given the overall competition
Speaker 1: in the acc This to me is the biggest question
Speaker 1: Trake May he really didn't play anybody good in college,
Speaker 1: and you can just watch some of the tape and
Speaker 1: see how the physical tools translate. But Evan, are you
Speaker 1: worried about the jump in competition, especially when it comes
Speaker 1: to the middle of the field.
Speaker 4: Uh No, not necessarily, Like I I understand the knock.
Speaker 4: I just I think that his physical traits are bare
Speaker 4: enough for me to not Like you can just use
Speaker 4: the eye test kind of of seeing the arm strength
Speaker 4: and the mobility and the size and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 4: I think my biggest concerns with Drake May are more mechanical,
Speaker 4: you know, like his lower half is never consistent. They're
Speaker 4: they're gonna have to work with if it's him there,
Speaker 4: that's gonna be the thing that they're gonna have to
Speaker 4: drill the most, yea or lower body mechanics.
Speaker 2: But that's why you hired Alex van Pelt, Like, that's
Speaker 2: that's why you hired the.
Speaker 1: Big footwork guy, by the way, specifically Van Pelt big
Speaker 1: footwork guy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like those guys that he is known for footwork
Speaker 4: and all that kind of stuff, being a bit very
Speaker 4: very good at at helping quarterbacks with that DA's Drake
Speaker 4: May's biggest knock right now.
Speaker 2: Is his mechanics and his just pocket mechanics and his
Speaker 2: lower body.
Speaker 4: Hey, if that doesn't get fixed, then he's going to
Speaker 4: spray the ball in the NFL, just like he did
Speaker 4: in college his past year.
Speaker 1: All right, and his question for me, we kind of
Speaker 1: just answered this. Assuming Caleb Williams and Marvin Harrison Junior
Speaker 1: are the first two picks, what's more interesting or intriguing
Speaker 1: for the Patriots taking a quarterback or trading down for
Speaker 1: wide receiver tackle He take the quarterback, you take Drake May.
Speaker 1: There a hundred you sprint that card up.
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I think that I would still I would
Speaker 4: still take either Drake May or jayde and Daniels over
Speaker 4: the alternative. Like and as much as I would have
Speaker 4: concerns about Jaden Daniels in this exact offense, you go
Speaker 4: to Alex van Pelt, you go to Ben McAdoo, you
Speaker 4: go to that staff, and you say, hey, you got
Speaker 4: this guy that's just got oodles of talent in Jaden Daniels.
Speaker 4: Figure it out, right, I just figure it out. I
Speaker 4: think that's still where you gotta go.
Speaker 1: Let's see here somebody asking about trading down, talking about
Speaker 1: packages that have gone for the third pick in recent years,
Speaker 1: talks about like the Trey Lance trade three for twelve
Speaker 1: plus multiple first and thirds future years. Wants to see
Speaker 1: the Patriots try to build that way, adding a bunch
Speaker 1: of picks, mentions getting c J. Stroud. I just I
Speaker 1: don't where the organization's at right now. I don't think
Speaker 1: they're gonna have the patience to do that. That's that's
Speaker 1: just the reality of it. Then, rank these four options
Speaker 1: is bridge quarterbacks for next season? I assume this is
Speaker 1: the pay if the Patriots don't draft quarterback Jameis Winston, Gardner,
Speaker 1: Minshew Drew, lock Ja, Kobe Brissett, is Jeff and Needham.
Speaker 1: He says, if you don't have Jacoby Brissett, last I disagree.
Speaker 1: Brissette is guaranteed under five hundred. At least the other
Speaker 1: guys have upside. Well, if you're not taking a quarterback,
Speaker 1: you're probably not a playoff team. Why are you trying
Speaker 1: to get to the middle. In terms of ranking them
Speaker 1: as quarterbacks? I go Jamis Gardner. That's a tough Actually,
Speaker 1: Jamis definitely number one. I feel like Jakobe Gardner Mint
Speaker 1: and Drew lock all kind of the same tier.
Speaker 2: I kind of like Gardner Minshew out of that group personally.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know, he got the Colts competitive
Speaker 4: this year, you know, like that that team was still
Speaker 4: relevant even though.
Speaker 1: Drew Locke won a couple of games for the Seahawks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you Gardner Mitchew won some like a like
Speaker 2: real games like for the Colts.
Speaker 1: Oh if heat the Patriots in Germany.
Speaker 2: And I like Jakobe present as not necessarily.
Speaker 4: It's not a he's not a These are not bridge
Speaker 4: quarterbacks to me, by the way, Like these are backup
Speaker 4: quarterbacks that might be starting seven eight games just to
Speaker 4: get to your rookie.
Speaker 1: Well, he's talk about Jefs talking about not drafting quarterback
Speaker 1: or at least not drafting high so right.
Speaker 2: But when I when I think of that though, I
Speaker 2: think of like that true bridge quarterback.
Speaker 4: And I'm not saying that they should do this, but
Speaker 4: like Russell Wilson would be a bridge quarterback. Like you
Speaker 4: try Russell Wilson for a year or two, see if
Speaker 4: it works out, and then you go back into the draft.
Speaker 4: Uh I would I would just say that Jacoby Brissett's
Speaker 4: calling card, and like what makes him an intriguing candidate
Speaker 4: to be signed as a veteran backup is that he's
Speaker 4: He's just a really good freaking dude, right, So, like
Speaker 4: you bring him in, he mentors the guy. He starts
Speaker 4: some games for you in the beginning of the year
Speaker 4: if you need him to uh and and then you
Speaker 4: bring you know you.
Speaker 2: It's a mini bridge. It's not like a bridge bridge.
Speaker 7: But what was it?
Speaker 4: There's another part of somebody's question that I can't remember now,
Speaker 4: all right, never.
Speaker 1: Mind, all right, Well, this one I think is directed
Speaker 1: at you. This is from Christian. I'm gonna just read
Speaker 1: this word for word. I'm gonna try to capture Christian's
Speaker 1: tone here because I think it's good. Okay, Why in
Speaker 1: the hell is Drake May a better fit? Every snap
Speaker 1: Drake May has taken has been in shotgun, just like
Speaker 1: the rest of them. If you want the best deep
Speaker 1: ball rollers or boot throwers, it's Daniels and Caleb May
Speaker 1: throws the ball inaccurately when he rolls out and doesn't
Speaker 1: set his feet even I assume that's supposed say Evan
Speaker 1: even has the brain has flu brain for sure. There's
Speaker 1: a second part to this as well. He sent another email,
Speaker 1: so that last one was at ten thirty nine. This
Speaker 1: is at ten fifty five. All caps do not take May.
Speaker 1: We watch him every week and he's nothing special, dude,
Speaker 1: and please fix your hat.
Speaker 2: Ah, I didn't even know that you could see me.
Speaker 1: To be fair with the hell, Oh yeah, no, you've
Speaker 1: been upped whole time. I'm glad you broke the seal
Speaker 1: on us wearing hats on the show. I always wanted
Speaker 1: to do that.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that you could see me.
Speaker 4: But second of all, I just every single time I
Speaker 4: bring up Drake May in a conversation for the Patriots,
Speaker 4: this is where it goes.
Speaker 2: People just get like furious. I don't understand.
Speaker 1: Oh, Christian, there's a thirty email from Christian. He's from
Speaker 1: North Carolina, so he's echoing with Eldridge.
Speaker 4: Okay, cool, So you like grew up in North Carolina
Speaker 4: or something, so now you know everything about Drake May. Sorry,
Speaker 4: like no one else can watch him and have an opinion,
Speaker 4: and you wrought the thirty mail.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm only gonna look at Boston College quarterback.
Speaker 1: Oh, don't make the same mistake I did with Philder
Speaker 1: kobc Yeah. Here's the the first email from Christian. This
Speaker 1: was at ten o'clock. This was right when the show started. Hello, guys,
Speaker 1: I need help. I seriously can't not see what everyone
Speaker 1: else does with Drake what everyone else does with Drake May.
Speaker 1: I've watched film on all the QBS, including every game
Speaker 1: they played last year as well.
Speaker 2: You watched the film.
Speaker 1: I just don't see it. I just feel like everyone
Speaker 1: heard the big name people say he's number two QB
Speaker 1: and accepted it. Some people explain to me what they
Speaker 1: see because I see Daniels as being a way better prospect.
Speaker 1: Thank you. So I just think Daniel's second best quarterback
Speaker 1: in this class. But I don't think it's that close.
Speaker 1: Or I do think it's very close. Sorry, I do
Speaker 1: think it's very close. We do the tube. But anyway,
Speaker 1: your response him, what in the why in the hell
Speaker 1: is Drake May a better fit? Is the lead? Here?
Speaker 4: I keep on telling you, I keep on telling everybody
Speaker 4: why he's a better fit.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess people tell people tell Christian he doesn't
Speaker 1: see it so well, he's from.
Speaker 2: North Carolina, so he'd know better than me.
Speaker 1: Oh boy, here we go. It's from Chad. This specifically does,
Speaker 1: so I'm doing my due diligence on QBS in this
Speaker 1: year's draft. Who do you think based on that? In Truevan,
Speaker 1: this is going to be about.
Speaker 7: I just.
Speaker 1: I'm doing I'm doing my due diligence on QBS in
Speaker 1: this year's draft, and I'm currently on JJ McCarthy. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying he should be a top five prospect
Speaker 1: with the likes of Williams and and Daniels, but he
Speaker 1: could be a fringe Day two candidate and potentially sit
Speaker 1: behind event until he's ready. That's not what I truly want.
Speaker 1: But JJ's made some really good throws strate his career.
Speaker 1: Chad in Atlanta, Honestly, I didn't like where that was starting.
Speaker 1: I agree with you, well, minus the last part about he's,
Speaker 1: you know, made some good throws at his career. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that's what he is. He's like a fringe day
Speaker 1: two pick. He's like a back get into the top
Speaker 1: one hundred pick that you have a Jordan Love type
Speaker 1: plan for that You're gonna sit for a year or
Speaker 1: two behind an established starter. No chance he needs to
Speaker 1: play in developing and that's not what I want to
Speaker 1: see the Patriots do. They don't JJ McCarthy is a
Speaker 1: perfect fit for the Patriots if it's twenty eighteen and
Speaker 1: they still have Tom Brady for two more years. J J.
Speaker 1: McCarty's the exact kind of guy they draft in that
Speaker 1: situation when you don't have a clear starting quarterback. Not
Speaker 1: so much.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, like, the bottom line with JJ McCarthy
Speaker 4: is ounce is that both you and I are gonna
Speaker 4: be wrong, right, Like I put him wrong in air
Speaker 4: quotes because I think we probably will end up being
Speaker 4: right in the long run.
Speaker 2: But JJ McCarthy is gonna go in the first round, like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, And I've said that I never underestimate how
Speaker 1: dumb these teams can do. Sorry, And the.
Speaker 4: League likes him better than everybody than the media does that.
Speaker 4: You know that that everybody loves that report, right right?
Speaker 2: You know JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 4: League's higher on him than draft media, League's higher on
Speaker 4: him than whatever, Zach.
Speaker 1: That was Zach Wilson Man. That's my comp and I'm
Speaker 1: sticking to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, cool, And I didn't Michael Michael Penix will
Speaker 2: go in.
Speaker 1: The third round and and the third round.
Speaker 4: J J. McCarthy will go in the first round, and
Speaker 4: Penix will be the better player in the NFL like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's on them.
Speaker 1: Zack Wilson. Man, I'm sticking by that comp Zach Wilson
Speaker 1: to a team. And remember I didn't Zack Wilson was
Speaker 1: my TBI six in that draft item behind Kyle Trask
Speaker 1: who didn't pan out. But they got Tom Brady and
Speaker 1: everything changed. Uh, all right, I guess they already had
Speaker 1: Tom Brady. But this is from Gierm. I apologize, I'm
Speaker 1: pronouncing that wrong. Germ, Hey guy, this is a really
Speaker 1: good emails. Is a really good point. Hey, guys, I
Speaker 1: was thinking about trade targets. Don't you think maybe Kyle
Speaker 1: Pitts should be one that would fit the new offense.
Speaker 1: Haven't heard anything of him being on the trade block,
Speaker 1: but just an idea. Since the Falcons are changing their
Speaker 1: coaching staff. I don't know what it would take to
Speaker 1: get Kyle Pitts because there hasn't been that much credit.
Speaker 1: But we talked before about finding your David Joku. Kyle
Speaker 1: Pitts a better version of that player. Despite what Arthur
Speaker 1: Smith would have you believe. The one trade down idea
Speaker 1: I entertain is three for eight next year's first and
Speaker 1: Kyle Pitts if they're gonna trade down, that's what I
Speaker 1: would do. Now, there may be other ways to get
Speaker 1: Kyle Pitts. If it's Kyle Pitts for like a third,
Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely I would do that. Kyle Pitts in this
Speaker 1: offense I think would be a tremendous fit. Evan, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you agree, but if you can't tell,
Speaker 1: I'm still high on Kyle Pitts despite what despite the Falcons'
Speaker 1: best efforts.
Speaker 4: Kyle, I think the biggest thing with Kyle Pitts is
Speaker 4: you need to look at it and realize, like, is
Speaker 4: this just a player that hasn't been used correctly or
Speaker 4: does he just not have a position in the NFL?
Speaker 4: And I would probably agree with you, but that's definitely
Speaker 4: a question that when you watch his film in Atlanta
Speaker 4: and you kind of diagnose the situation is is he
Speaker 4: just one of those guys that's kind of like a
Speaker 4: tweeter and you just don't really know where to put
Speaker 4: them and that.
Speaker 2: Kind of it's difficult.
Speaker 4: Or is he somebody that's just being underutilized and used incorrectly.
Speaker 4: But it was the trade down scenarios earlier. Remember I
Speaker 4: said that something was jogging my mind. So the Patriots
Speaker 4: are at three, right, Arizona's at four, and then the
Speaker 4: Chargers are at five.
Speaker 2: Yep, how much Danny Ainge do is? Does Elliott Wolf have?
Speaker 1: Oh? This is different, this is different. It's not the
Speaker 1: NBA Draft. I wouldn't risk it.
Speaker 2: Because those two teams are not going to take.
Speaker 1: Quarterbacks, right, But could especially the Chargers. Could the Chargers
Speaker 1: move back for a team that wants to take a quarterback.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, then you get jumped.
Speaker 2: Okay, I agree with you that it's it's probably too rare.
Speaker 1: So what you're saying is basically, trade down and take
Speaker 1: a quarterback. That's what you're saying.
Speaker 2: What I'm saying is is.
Speaker 1: That you're saying, trade down, take quarterback.
Speaker 4: There's a chance that you could probably get and it's
Speaker 4: probably a quarterback. But I'm just saying, there's a chance
Speaker 4: that you could get the same player at six that
Speaker 4: you want at three, because those two teams are going
Speaker 4: to take non quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: I have.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Put this tablet down to find my list here. Do
Speaker 1: you know the last time a team traded down in
Speaker 1: the top five?
Speaker 2: I know, I know you did your research, but I'm
Speaker 2: just telling you that that is that not awesome.
Speaker 1: This is you are talking about something, Evan, that hasn't
Speaker 1: been attempted in thirty years, and all it takes is
Speaker 1: the Falcons or the Raiders or whoever trading up to
Speaker 1: five and your entire offseason plan is shot. The last
Speaker 1: quarterback that was traded down for period, forget range. No
Speaker 1: team has traded down and taken a quarterback in the
Speaker 1: first round since twenty thirteen. That was EJ. Manuel. The
Speaker 1: Bills went from eight to sixteen and took him. He
Speaker 1: was the only first round quarterback that year. The only
Speaker 1: other times it's happened really in our lifetime, so that
Speaker 1: was twenty thirteen. The last one before that two thousand
Speaker 1: and three, when the Bears moved back and took Rex Grossman,
Speaker 1: but they got two first. They moved back from four,
Speaker 1: they got thirteen and twenty two, and they took Grossman
Speaker 1: at twenty two. Meanwhile, they missed on a Byron Left
Speaker 1: or see only the quarterback they missed on two thousand
Speaker 1: and two.
Speaker 2: It was the first time for everything though.
Speaker 1: Right two thousand and two, Washington moved back from twenty
Speaker 1: one to thirty two to take Patrick Ramsey nineteen ninety nine. Somebody,
Speaker 1: I think it's the Bears moved back from seven to
Speaker 1: twelve to take Cade McNown missed on Dante Culpepper. By
Speaker 1: the way, the last time it happened in the top five,
Speaker 1: Kerry Collins. The Panthers went from one to five to
Speaker 1: take carry Collins. Then Houston Oilers took Steve McNair third. Overall,
Speaker 1: you believe in the quarterback, you take them. It's different
Speaker 1: than other positions. You believe in the quarterback, you take them.
Speaker 1: It's a nice idea. Danny Andes Jason Tatum, all that
Speaker 1: doesn't work in this league, doesn't work with that position.
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm just saying that that I don't hate. I
Speaker 4: would stay at three and take the quarterback, okad, But
Speaker 4: I get.
Speaker 1: It you're bringing it up.
Speaker 2: And the trade down scenario is like, realistically, if if they.
Speaker 4: If we just say that they don't like the quarterbacks, yeah,
Speaker 4: they don't like quarterback, that's left.
Speaker 2: Then the trade down scenarios are are very intriguing.
Speaker 4: I know it's what nobody wants to hear, but they
Speaker 4: could really set themselves up with a war chest if
Speaker 4: they were to do that.
Speaker 1: So I think the trade down makes sense for me.
Speaker 1: The way I look at the board and is how
Speaker 1: I look at it, like they need to add more picks,
Speaker 1: they need to add more top fifty picks. I look
Speaker 1: at trading down from thirty four because I think like
Speaker 1: forty to seventy is a real strong point in this draft.
Speaker 1: So I think you move down from thirty four, maybe
Speaker 1: pick up you know, an extra second this year or
Speaker 1: nextra second next year. Like I like the idea of
Speaker 1: trading down to add assets. I just do it in
Speaker 1: the second round to the first round. Nicholas asked about
Speaker 1: if the Commanders may go with Jane Daniels for Drake May.
Speaker 1: We talked about that. We both think yes.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: The subject to this one just says last Chance You.
Speaker 1: So I'm very excited because I like, if you haven't
Speaker 1: watched Last Yan to You on Netflix, definitely checking out awesome,
Speaker 1: awesome football documentary. It's a series they follow a Juco
Speaker 1: team every year, and actually the guy who produced it
Speaker 1: is going to be doing the Red Sox Netflix series
Speaker 1: that's coming out. So definitely recommend Last Chance to You.
Speaker 1: So Craig says Pats fan from the UK since two
Speaker 1: thousand and six, new listeners since the international game. We
Speaker 1: love that seen one series of Last Chance to You
Speaker 1: with d Or Scott. I remember de Or Scott who
Speaker 1: went to uh Hawaii. Oh yes, about Patriots signing him.
Speaker 1: That was, yeah, it was a while ago. The Last
Speaker 1: Chance You played. My question is the Last Chance You
Speaker 1: players last in the NFL due to limited knowledge of
Speaker 1: the college system. There's a couple Last Chance to You
Speaker 1: guys hanging around. I think that documentary ultimately hurt a
Speaker 1: lot of guys because they didn't all they paint players
Speaker 1: in the best light. There's been a couple guys, what's
Speaker 1: his name, the running back were Kim Sanders from Arkansas.
Speaker 1: He was in that. He hung around the league a
Speaker 1: little bit. Pat's about a couple guys in camp Us.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember who it is. There's one last
Speaker 1: Chance to You player, one last Chance You player who's
Speaker 1: in the league who's really good. But he was never
Speaker 1: They only would only feature like seven or eight players,
Speaker 1: and he wasn't one of the featured players. He was
Speaker 1: on the team and like you saw him in the background,
Speaker 1: but I don't think they ever interviewed him. I can't
Speaker 1: remember who that was anyway. I appreciate the question, and
Speaker 1: Chance talked about last Chance too. I got a couple
Speaker 1: more here, Uh, David uh Boston Dave says, I heard
Speaker 1: you say Drake May is perfect for the offense, not perfect,
Speaker 1: just the best fit. I heard you say Drake May
Speaker 1: is perfect for the offense. Is Pennis or Fields a
Speaker 1: fit for the offense? A VP is gonna run? We
Speaker 1: talked about this. I think Penis is a really good
Speaker 1: fit as well. Justin Fields, No, because they strung goal
Speaker 1: to add that quarterback run element with Deshaun Watson, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna need the quarterback run element to make it
Speaker 1: work with Justin Fields.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I look. I I just think it's hilarious.
Speaker 4: I think nothing gets people more rouled up than me
Speaker 4: saying that Drake May is a good fit for this
Speaker 4: offense and Jayden Daniels is not as good of a fit.
Speaker 2: I don't look, Jayden Daniels is Uh. He deserves a
Speaker 2: lot of credit.
Speaker 4: Like he's got like a whole marketing team for himself
Speaker 4: down in North Carolina.
Speaker 2: That's just people. So you know, like that he's in
Speaker 2: good hands.
Speaker 1: Like if only he could be drafted by the Panthers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my goodness, like it's it's incredible, all.
Speaker 1: Right, Claire checking in Claire from the UK right now,
Speaker 1: and I reserve the right change my mind. I may
Speaker 1: all the way. I would like see a big, tough,
Speaker 1: broad shouldered quarterback who can take hits and stuff, not
Speaker 1: a little guy who can run around and not read
Speaker 1: the field as much. I don't know who that's about.
Speaker 2: I would he just wanted to get the broad shoulder game.
Speaker 1: There also said she's met on Kyle Pitts, which I'm
Speaker 1: surprised of from Claire. I would think it's kind of
Speaker 1: tight end that that she'd be interested in. Ryan says,
Speaker 1: been watching your mock drafts for years. I always love
Speaker 1: hearing the players, you like, it's fun to think this
Speaker 1: might be the first year they actually picked some of them. No,
Speaker 1: we had Marcus Jones, we nailed that one. We had
Speaker 1: them taking Cole Strange one year. It wasn't in the
Speaker 1: first round, but we had them taking Cold Strange. We've
Speaker 1: hit on a couple, you know. I don't know if
Speaker 1: that was supposed to be a shot at us or not,
Speaker 1: but we did.
Speaker 2: You know, I think both of us loved Christian Gonzales.
Speaker 1: We just didn't think We didn't think he'd be on
Speaker 1: the board right.
Speaker 2: And we had to respect the board, and it turns
Speaker 2: out that we didn't.
Speaker 1: Now that I think about it, I don't know if
Speaker 1: this is a shot at us or a shot at
Speaker 1: the previous draft saying like, oh, you know the guys
Speaker 1: you like, now they'll take them because they'll take good player.
Speaker 1: I think I feel more interested than ever in draft
Speaker 1: Talk's been hard to get excited for drafts when they
Speaker 1: chose Day three guys on Day one or day two.
Speaker 1: Love getting excited about draft talk. Let's see what else
Speaker 1: this one's to me, Alex. I like your direction. Love
Speaker 1: for this is.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: I want to pitch this and get your thoughts. Trade
Speaker 1: down to Falcons at eight, get Pits and next year's
Speaker 1: first for three, then get Pennix in the second round
Speaker 1: and get Gardner Minshew in free agency. I mean, I
Speaker 1: still want to take the quarterback at three, but like
Speaker 1: I said, this is the one trade down I'll entertain.
Speaker 1: Let's say at eight, you either get Joe Alter Malik
Speaker 1: Neighbors at eight, Yeah, and then you have Pennix and
Speaker 1: you have the Falcons first next year. Wouldn't be my
Speaker 1: least favorite thing. I don't know that that would be
Speaker 1: an a for me, but I would give it a
Speaker 1: passing great for sure. I don't know about you, Evan.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that, like I said earlier, the trade
Speaker 4: down scenarios, if you're not falling in love with one
Speaker 4: of these quarterbacks that's going to be available to you,
Speaker 4: then that those are those are all viable scenarios.
Speaker 2: Like I think that's probably what I would do.
Speaker 4: If you're not going to take a quarterback at three
Speaker 4: and you're you're because you're not sold on one of
Speaker 4: these quarterbacks, then I'd be trading down and trying to
Speaker 4: accumulate assets because you're still probably gonna get like once
Speaker 4: we get past the quarterbacks and Marvin Harrison Junior, let's
Speaker 4: face it, like Joe alt Olofashanu Malik neighbors, like these
Speaker 4: are all kind of the same level of prospect.
Speaker 1: At that point. Yeah, this is why, like people are
Speaker 1: just sending emails in because they know what we normally
Speaker 1: don't like read through emails like this. So I apologize
Speaker 1: Evan for hijacking your show, but literally, as I'm reading them,
Speaker 1: more people are sending them in. Robin the Katskills. Any
Speaker 1: thoughts on Jordan Travis in later rounds, Like later, So,
Speaker 1: Jordan Travis, quarterback of Florida State.
Speaker 2: Play, is he even gonna play next year?
Speaker 5: So?
Speaker 1: I guess down at the he went to the Shrine
Speaker 1: Bowl to do interviews, and I guess he was telling
Speaker 1: people he thinks he'll be cleared by October. So like, yeah, look,
Speaker 1: if it's the sixth round, he shouldn't be your only
Speaker 1: quarterback pick. If you're telling me it's the sixth round,
Speaker 1: they feel like they've had a very completet. You want
Speaker 1: to bring him in. Yeah, I mean he showed some
Speaker 1: interesting stuff at Florida State. He is really small, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that worries me, especially for a guy that's had
Speaker 1: this kind of injury. If you want to take him
Speaker 1: late on Day three as a second quarterback knowing you're
Speaker 1: probably gonna keep him on NFI all year. Sure, I
Speaker 1: mean he's worth a six round flier. I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: opposed to that. I don't know about making him your
Speaker 1: quarterback pick. I wouldn't make him your plan. I would say,
Speaker 1: if you come out of the offseason he's the only
Speaker 1: quarterback you've added, you still don't have any true direction
Speaker 1: a quarterback.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that, all right.
Speaker 1: Last one, here we go Catch twenty two Patriots position philosophy.
Speaker 1: We love philosophy questions, and then we actually got a
Speaker 1: call too, So appreciate you guys carrying the show.
Speaker 2: Somebody from North Carolina.
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Hello. Thinking about last year's rookies after drawd Mayo's hiring,
Speaker 1: I've been wondering if the team's view on player positions
Speaker 1: will change. Most notably, I'm wondering if Belichick or Mayo
Speaker 1: viewed Marte mop who was a safety rather than a linebacker.
Speaker 1: Did Mayo make the decision to play Mac Wilson on
Speaker 1: the edge rather than as an inside linebacker. With someone
Speaker 1: like James Williams out of Miami, And we got to
Speaker 1: pay attention to the Miami guys now because Alonzo Highsmith's
Speaker 1: in the front office is working with the loot you
Speaker 1: last year. Does somebody like James Williams out of Miami
Speaker 1: be a linebacker or a safety? Into odds isaact cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera. I genuinely hope Mayo sets guys up for
Speaker 1: success and plays them at their best positions. Love the show.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you guys sharing knowledge with us. Best Carlos, So,
Speaker 1: great question. Great question. Let's start with Mapu because after
Speaker 1: the draft we came in here, Evan, you were so happy,
Speaker 1: encouraged that he was going to be a linebacker and
Speaker 1: they're gonna modernize their defense. And he kept rolling your
Speaker 1: eyes at me when I said they drafted him to
Speaker 1: be a big safety and then he became a big safety.
Speaker 1: Does that maybe change this year? Because to another part
Speaker 1: of the email, Mayo, was it Mayo or Steve Belichick
Speaker 1: at the towards the end of the year talked about, yeah,
Speaker 1: we were playing Mac Wilson incorrectly his first year. One
Speaker 1: of them said that, yeah, is is there a wreck ignition?
Speaker 1: And do you think they used Marte Mapu correctly this year?
Speaker 1: And a few chances he did play on offense? And
Speaker 1: do you think maybe he gets to play a more
Speaker 1: true linebacker role next year?
Speaker 4: I guess it depends on if Kyle duggars here or not. Like,
Speaker 4: if Kyle Duggar is here and they are they're able
Speaker 4: to to be more flexible with Marty Mapu, then I
Speaker 4: could see that If Kyle Dugger is not here, then
Speaker 4: I think that he's Kyle Duggar's replacement.
Speaker 2: Like I I just I have kind of sort of
Speaker 2: succme to.
Speaker 1: That isn't Kyle Duggart's replacement, though well, Jabil.
Speaker 2: Peppers isn't gonna like man up tight ends and things
Speaker 2: like that. You know, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I'm not for I think in a lot of ways
Speaker 4: for the better. Like I'm not necessarily saying this is
Speaker 4: like a super negative thing, don't. I don't necessarily think
Speaker 4: that they're gonna philosophically change all that much on defense
Speaker 4: like that, They're gonna sort of look at positions and
Speaker 4: look at body types and and look at roles and
Speaker 4: stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Pretty similarly, I don't think it's a philosophical change. I
Speaker 1: guess it's more And it's a good point in the
Speaker 1: email the way it's phrased. With mac Wilson, it wasn't
Speaker 1: a philosophy change with mac Wilson. They realized the guy
Speaker 1: was better used doing something else. Do you think there's
Speaker 1: a chance that something similar happens with Marte Moppua? I
Speaker 1: guess is the point?
Speaker 4: I think that, yes, But I think that they might
Speaker 4: look at it and say, well, we're gonna use him
Speaker 4: for the Kyle Duggar role, not Kyle Duggar's role last year,
Speaker 4: but like Kyle Duggar's role when Devin mccordy was still here,
Speaker 4: and he's going to be close to the line of
Speaker 4: scrimmage and playing at the first and second level and
Speaker 4: like that, it all.
Speaker 2: Is kind of the same at that.
Speaker 1: But you want kind of thing, yeah, yeah, this, uh, well.
Speaker 2: We'll see. But you mentioned the loons of Heismith.
Speaker 4: I know we talked about him earlier, but one of
Speaker 4: the things that I think is encouraging about him too
Speaker 4: is that, you know, he's really good at like being
Speaker 4: like a liaison between the players, the coaching staff and
Speaker 4: the front office with the players and is somebody that
Speaker 4: like is almost like a sounding board for the players
Speaker 4: to like kind of come to him and then you know,
Speaker 4: say come with you know, concerns or whatever. And I
Speaker 4: think that's like a really important role because it kind
Speaker 4: of separates Elliott Wolf from like the players a little bit,
Speaker 4: right and kind serves as like a buffer between those.
Speaker 4: So I'm actually very encouraged about him being on the staff.
Speaker 4: I think that's a really good hire.
Speaker 1: And I mean, you get a former player in that
Speaker 1: front office where Cameron Williams played in college, but you know,
Speaker 1: former NFL, high profile NFL player. You don't need your
Speaker 1: entire front office to be former players. They don't need
Speaker 1: your entire coaching staff to be former players. But you
Speaker 1: shouldn't be entirely devoid of them either. I truly believe that.
Speaker 1: So I think high Smith adds that important elmet Let's
Speaker 1: go to William and Philadelphia on the phones. William on
Speaker 1: a very interactive catch twenty two.
Speaker 8: What's going on out?
Speaker 1: Hey?
Speaker 8: What's going on to you too? Evan?
Speaker 2: How you doing all right? Now?
Speaker 8: So I have was I just want to say this
Speaker 8: one first, Well, so much pushback on Drake may Man.
Speaker 6: That's wow.
Speaker 8: I ain't knew Patriot's fans was out on him like that.
Speaker 8: I like Drake Mayy. I know, maybe maybe he can
Speaker 8: do those passes. I don't know. Maybe he wasn't asked,
Speaker 8: Maybe he was just asked to be in a shotgun
Speaker 8: scheme and whatnot. No, I don't know. Excu's the noise
Speaker 8: in the background. Sorry, I'm outside right now.
Speaker 6: I do right now.
Speaker 8: Well, I want to ask you some co questions in
Speaker 8: terms of the draft whatnot. So what do y'all think about? Well,
Speaker 8: I'm gonna say no, let me say this one first, Evan,
Speaker 8: that you were coming out Mark Marvin Harrison Jr. Look,
Speaker 8: I know the Patriots fans, we all want him in
Speaker 8: all do not get me wrong, But I like Roman
Speaker 8: what's the name Roman Wilson from Michigan. Guy, my god,
Speaker 8: I'm with you. Uh we gotta get him.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 8: That one hand catch that did it for me. I
Speaker 8: was like his rowse, he looks so crisp doing him joint.
Speaker 8: I was just like, oh, man, can we please get him?
Speaker 8: And also, what do you think of Brandon Rice? And uh,
Speaker 8: who was the other one? There was another one, Brandon Rice,
Speaker 8: which has Jerry Rice done?
Speaker 1: Do you remember the school?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: What school was that?
Speaker 8: I can't I can't think of the other receiver though,
Speaker 8: Oh the one receiver everybody talking about. What's his name name?
Speaker 3: Cocky?
Speaker 1: Oh Lad mccakkeye, Yeah, Lad mccaukaye from Georgia.
Speaker 3: My goyeah, man, I.
Speaker 8: Mean, I mean, I get it. I understand. He's like
Speaker 8: a Julian. I get he he's always open.
Speaker 4: I get it.
Speaker 3: I get it.
Speaker 8: But I still want Roman Wilson. I want something a
Speaker 8: little different. That's just me personally.
Speaker 1: All right, Thanks for the call, William all right, take
Speaker 1: care now. So it's funny he brought those two names up.
Speaker 1: I'm working on my mock draft right now. Give a
Speaker 1: little spoiler alert. I'm I'm deciding between Brandon Rice and
Speaker 1: Roman Wilson, and I'm really going back and forth. Those
Speaker 1: are two good players, as you like to say't I
Speaker 1: think that's a flavor thing, right, what do you want?
Speaker 1: They're both good, but they both win completely differently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was really impressed with both of them.
Speaker 4: And Mobile, I mean, remind Wilson, as as Williams said,
Speaker 4: is just he's he's crispy, right, Like his routes are
Speaker 4: just efficient, quick, sudden, all of the things that you love.
Speaker 4: Sets up routes fantastically well, great ball skills. You know,
Speaker 4: I had the one handed catch, but he caught the
Speaker 4: ball really well all week. He's a smooth criminal out
Speaker 4: there like that.
Speaker 2: That's what he does. Brendan Rice is yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: he's he's an ex He's a bullyball receiver.
Speaker 4: He But I think what it was impressive about him,
Speaker 4: you know, first day was a lot of the contested catches,
Speaker 4: a lot of you know, grabs through traffic and things
Speaker 4: like that. But then on day two, he ran some
Speaker 4: routes and actually got open. I thought he got it
Speaker 4: open in the red zone periods too, and in day
Speaker 4: three a little bit. So I think he's someone that
Speaker 4: even for his size six twoish, he can get down
Speaker 4: and he can sink and come in and out of
Speaker 4: breaks and things. I don't think he's gonna be a dynamic,
Speaker 4: top of the out type of guy, but for his size,
Speaker 4: I think he can do that. So it depends what
Speaker 4: they tackle in free agency. And I know that some
Speaker 4: people think it's a cop out, but this is the
Speaker 4: biggest thing that that gets on my nerves, Alex is,
Speaker 4: like we're talking about these things like free agency doesn't exist.
Speaker 4: So like if they if they signed Michael Pittman or
Speaker 4: they signed t Higgins or something like that.
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's not going to be Brandon Rice, right, shouldn't.
Speaker 4: If they signed Calvin Ridley, then it's probably not going
Speaker 4: to be a Roman Wilson, right, like you know, Like
Speaker 4: so like that, that's that's all it is. And it's
Speaker 4: good to talk about all these guys because you get
Speaker 4: all the different sort of flavors that they would be
Speaker 4: at their disposal. I still think Brandon Rice is in
Speaker 4: this class, it's such a deep receiver class. Is he
Speaker 4: a third round pick? Is he maybe, you know, probably
Speaker 4: a late third round pick something like that. But I
Speaker 4: don't know if he's necessarily going to go. I think
Speaker 4: Roman Wilson could go very high, like not first round,
Speaker 4: but uh, you know, someplace in the second round.
Speaker 1: I think he might fall a little bit. And that's
Speaker 1: not to say he's not a good player. I think
Speaker 1: teams value production. He doesn't. And some of this is
Speaker 1: just the class, right, he doesn't have the production that
Speaker 1: some of these other guys do. He's a little bit
Speaker 1: on the smaller side.
Speaker 2: Would he have had the production that some of these
Speaker 2: other guys do if he played at a different.
Speaker 1: See Yeah, but but how many teams miss that? Like
Speaker 1: look at where Pokinako went last year? Yeah, and this
Speaker 1: thing he went. I think teams are more willing to
Speaker 1: say that, Like I look at Tank Dell who went
Speaker 1: in the third round that year. Like Tank Dell went
Speaker 1: to Houston. They weren't a Power five school at the time.
Speaker 1: I think teams are more willing to look at a
Speaker 1: guy like that, whereas like Roman Wilson went to Michigan.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I know, but it's a run first offense
Speaker 4: with JJ McCarthy as the quarterback. Like if Roman Wilson's
Speaker 4: getting fed the ball in CFB last year, if he's
Speaker 4: in Washington's offense, like if you imagine the numbers he
Speaker 4: would have put up with Michael Pennix last year, it
Speaker 4: would have been you know, like that. That's that's My
Speaker 4: only point is just that he is not the competition
Speaker 4: or anything like that. It's more just like the type
Speaker 4: of offense that he was in. You know, they ran
Speaker 4: fall percent of the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that I'm just we know NFL teams don't
Speaker 1: always get this right. And romand William Roman Wilson, we
Speaker 1: talked about J. J. McCarthy the other way. Yeah, teams
Speaker 1: love JJ McCarthy and they're gonna kind of look at
Speaker 1: Roman Wilson and be like, well, we love this quarterback
Speaker 1: and this guy didn't really produce.
Speaker 5: So I.
Speaker 1: Screams Roman Wilson, screams the guy the league missed. It's
Speaker 1: not me saying I don't like him, that I think
Speaker 1: he's gonna fall. It's just all these receivers that we've
Speaker 1: seen fall the last few years. It's a gut thing
Speaker 1: like romand Wilson to me, is the guy that a
Speaker 1: year from now. We're sitting here and I'm trying to
Speaker 1: make the case that the Patriots can draft some guy
Speaker 1: on day three instead of in round three instead around two.
Speaker 1: And I'm sitting here saying, well, look at romand Wilson
Speaker 1: last year, Like he just screams that kind of guy
Speaker 1: to me. So he's a mon ross name Brown, That's
Speaker 1: I don't know why couldn't think of his name. I
Speaker 1: was trying to think of his name. Thank you? Yes,
Speaker 1: who is actually your comp for hims? So perfect?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Lad McConkie is I like Laddi McConkie.
Speaker 4: I think that he was more a little bit more explosive,
Speaker 4: a little bit more bursty than I gave him credit
Speaker 4: for before I saw him in person. But yeah, that's
Speaker 4: such a setting that Lad McConkie should shine in. Like
Speaker 4: there's no there's not a ton of contact.
Speaker 2: It's one on ones.
Speaker 4: Like if you're a route runner, if you're a guy
Speaker 4: that gets open like that, you have to be able
Speaker 4: to get open in that type of setting in mobile
Speaker 4: otherwise you're you're you're really in trouble. So I don't
Speaker 4: want to put too much stock in lad McConkie at
Speaker 4: the Senior Bowl during one on ones because like that's
Speaker 4: that should be his bread and butter.
Speaker 1: I still think he's at his best as like a
Speaker 1: strong number two receiver. I still don't know if he's
Speaker 1: a coverage dictator.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's more than fair.
Speaker 1: All right. As we wrap it up here, we work
Speaker 1: through all the calls, who work through all the emails
Speaker 1: again on a very interactive catch twenty two. It is
Speaker 1: super Bowl week. Yeah, super Bowl week. We've got the
Speaker 1: Niners and the Chiefs in a couple of days. We
Speaker 1: can do picks for the game. But more so we
Speaker 1: kind of talked about it earlier. Evan, I'm just what
Speaker 1: do we learn? I say this every year there's something
Speaker 1: there's one big lesson learned from every Super Bowl. It's
Speaker 1: always something different, copycat league. There's always one big lesson
Speaker 1: learned from every Super Bowl that you see kind of become,
Speaker 1: you know, a trend or teams try to pick up on,
Speaker 1: or just a focus or something like that. And sometimes
Speaker 1: it depends who wins I or sometimes it's on Huluse
Speaker 1: the Chiefs, the Chiefs Buck super Bowl in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: I thought kicked off a lot of you talked about earlier,
Speaker 1: the lines with Pinney seool this, Hey, we've got to
Speaker 1: put more into building the front because you had the
Speaker 1: Bengals kind of get run out of the playoffs with
Speaker 1: the bad front, and then you had the Chiefs just
Speaker 1: unable to block anybody with all those weapons they had.
Speaker 1: They had Peak Kelsey, peak Tyreek Kill with Patrick Mahomes
Speaker 1: all of that. As you look at this Super Bowl,
Speaker 1: what is maybe the lesson that we're gonna end up
Speaker 1: taking away from the Sunday night that we we come
Speaker 1: back here on this show next week could say, well,
Speaker 1: the Patriots should do this because of what happened in
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2: It's a good question.
Speaker 4: I think it's gonna be something that I don't necessarily
Speaker 4: subscribe to, you know. I think it's gonna be something
Speaker 4: that I'm gonna end up being wrong about, uh, in
Speaker 4: the in at least some ways.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Uh, I look at it and say that it's either
Speaker 4: gonna be something about defense. Rightley, Defense still still holds up.
Speaker 4: Defense still matters win championships. Yeah, whether it's Spags doing
Speaker 4: his thing or the Niners defense playing better because they actually,
Speaker 4: you know, the Niners defense hasn't actually been that great
Speaker 4: for most of the year, or I think it could
Speaker 4: come down to these two running backs, like this is
Speaker 4: a really good Not that Isaiah Pacheco and Christian McCaffer
Speaker 4: are going up against each other, but this is a
Speaker 4: those are two really dynamic backs.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 4: And I wouldn't be surprised if if we come out
Speaker 4: of this game and one of those guys is Super
Speaker 4: Bowl MVP.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't.
Speaker 4: So I think that you're gonna see some of that,
Speaker 4: you know, Kansas City in my mind, you know, what
Speaker 4: they've how they've turned mostly into like the Patriots of
Speaker 4: old in my eyes, is that they've now realized that
Speaker 4: wherever their talent around Patrick Mahomes takes them, they can
Speaker 4: kind of just ebb and flow with wherever they can
Speaker 4: find the talent. Right like now, it started with Patrick
Speaker 4: Mahomes and it's they're this high flying offense they you know,
Speaker 4: eighteen nineteen Kansas City is like one of the best
Speaker 4: offenses in the NFL history, like up there with those
Speaker 4: seven Patriots.
Speaker 2: Then they lose some of that offensive.
Speaker 4: Talent, but the board follows towards defense for them, and
Speaker 4: they add Trent McDuffie and they add lugerious need, and
Speaker 4: they add you know, they have Chris Jones there already,
Speaker 4: and now all of a sudden, they're like this offense
Speaker 4: that does just an enough that you know, we're gonna
Speaker 4: score twenty four on offense and our defense is gonna
Speaker 4: hold you to twenty one.
Speaker 2: Right like that, That's like, which.
Speaker 1: Is what they've kind of the model that we thought
Speaker 1: the Patriots are going forward the last few years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it just it seems like that.
Speaker 4: That's what makes the Chiefs so unique is that, like
Speaker 4: they have Mahomes, so they know that they're gonna get
Speaker 4: some offense. Like they're not gonna be completely shut out
Speaker 4: on offense, but they have kind of they've morphed, they've
Speaker 4: changed the way that they play football now. So it's
Speaker 4: gonna be interesting to see if that's gonna be enough
Speaker 4: against the forty nine ers.
Speaker 2: I hoped a big prevailing takeaway from the Super Bowl,
Speaker 2: as you.
Speaker 4: Know, Alex, is that Kyle Shanahan has finally anointed himself
Speaker 4: as as a great head coach. That's what That's what
Speaker 4: I hope, But I don't know if that's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: So I got to give you the list on on
Speaker 1: Shanahan because and we've talked about this off the year.
Speaker 1: I don't know that we've ever had this conversation on
Speaker 1: the air. But first, just my thoughts on the lessons
Speaker 1: we might learn from the Super Bowl outside of Mahomes
Speaker 1: that chiefs offense does not have a lot of talent,
Speaker 1: really doesn't like Rashi Rice is fine. I don't know
Speaker 1: that he'd be as productive anywhere else. They'd kind of
Speaker 1: have to force feed him the ball. And I really
Speaker 1: like Isaia Pacheco, But I mean, is it that in
Speaker 1: terms of just talent outside of the quarterback position, is
Speaker 1: it that different than what the Patriots have? Not, which,
Speaker 1: to me, the lesson would be do everything he can
Speaker 1: to get the quarterback. And this is applying this is
Speaker 1: looking at through the lens of a draft guy to
Speaker 1: everything he can to get the quarterback because he's gonna
Speaker 1: be able to elevate if the Niners win. The lesson
Speaker 1: isn't Evan I actually wrote about this off something off
Speaker 1: an interview you had. I forget if it was Matt
Speaker 1: I think it was Matt Grow. You interviewed matc Grow
Speaker 1: and Cameron Williams at the Senior Bowl and I forget
Speaker 1: which one of them gave the quote about all the
Speaker 1: teams in the final round of the playoffs have explosive
Speaker 1: playmakers on offense. Yeah, okay, so I took that quote
Speaker 1: really ground level phase value. All right, let's talk about
Speaker 1: the teams that made the deep He used the word
Speaker 1: deep run, so we'll call it the final four. Yeah,
Speaker 1: forty nine ers their best skill position players, George Kittle, Deebo,
Speaker 1: Samuel Brandon, Ayuk, Christian McCaffrey. Three of those four guys
Speaker 1: were not first round picks by the Niners. The other
Speaker 1: one was a late first round pick after they'd already
Speaker 1: established their offense. The Detroit Lions, they did use a
Speaker 1: first round pick on Jameson Williams, but that was after
Speaker 1: they added their real weapon, their real leader offensively, Aman
Speaker 1: Ross Saint Brown in the fourth round.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You look at the Chiefs Travis Kelsey Day two pick,
Speaker 1: Rashie Rice drafted later on Isaiah Pacheco's seventh round pick.
Speaker 1: The one exception may be the Ravens because they did
Speaker 1: use a first on Za and I think Baitan was
Speaker 1: a first round pick too, right, But you look at
Speaker 1: they got Mark Andrews later on in the draft. They
Speaker 1: signed Odell Beckham as a free agent. These teams all
Speaker 1: do have incredible explosive players, the heavy majority of them
Speaker 1: were not first round picks, at least not by that team.
Speaker 1: Right McCaffrey was traded something like that. There's so much
Speaker 1: skill position talent coming into the league now that you
Speaker 1: can get. You don't need to use a first round
Speaker 1: pick to get an elite playmaker. You do soft to
Speaker 1: correctly identify and develop the guy, which is where I
Speaker 1: think the Patriots have fallen short. But you do not
Speaker 1: need to use a first round pick. Now you look
Speaker 1: at those teams, how they the quarterbacks three first round
Speaker 1: picks and brock Purty is when you have the talent
Speaker 1: the Niners have, you can trust your seventh round quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: Patriots don't have a time watching.
Speaker 7: I know.
Speaker 1: I'm the one who said when Jimmy Garoppolo got hurt
Speaker 1: last year that brock Purty was going to lead them
Speaker 1: to the conference championship. By the way, I don't know
Speaker 1: what I'm watching.
Speaker 2: He's the next Joe Montage.
Speaker 1: Three of the four quarterbacks are first round picks or
Speaker 1: Jerry Goff traded for first round pick, and the offensive
Speaker 1: lines are loaded with first round talent. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that's the I think that's the lesson you'll learn. I
Speaker 1: think that's the lesson you'll learn.
Speaker 4: I think you're you're getting into this age of football
Speaker 4: in a lot of ways. You know, Lions, Niners, you
Speaker 4: know a lot of these teams are building up the
Speaker 4: roster around the quarterback and then just drop in quarterbacks
Speaker 4: that whether it's Jared Goff, Brock Purty level or better. Uh,
Speaker 4: if they can find better, and then you know, I
Speaker 4: maybe I would say better would be like Stafford, you
Speaker 4: know at the Rams, uh and that, and that's how
Speaker 4: they've built it. And I think that that in a
Speaker 4: lot of ways, if you're the Patriots, you do have
Speaker 4: to look at that model and say, if we take
Speaker 4: a quarterback at three overall, like, are are we sure
Speaker 4: that it's gonna work out? Because that quarterback is gonna
Speaker 4: have to cover up a lot.
Speaker 1: But I think the lesson is if you're not gonna
Speaker 1: do that, you take a tackle, not a receiver.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right on Shanahan, here's what's a stake. Kyle Shanahan is
Speaker 1: in his seventh year as the head coach of the
Speaker 1: night He has not won a super Bowl. He is
Speaker 1: the longest tenured NFL head coach right now, like with
Speaker 1: his team, with the team he's on that has not
Speaker 1: won a Super Bowl. Here's the company he's approaching. There
Speaker 1: are one, two, three, four, five, six, nine coaches in
Speaker 1: NFL history who coached somewhere for ten years without winning
Speaker 1: a Super Bowl. It's eight and then there's a there's
Speaker 1: an asterisk here. Marvel Levy, Marv Lewis, Ted Marchibroda, Jeff Fisher,
Speaker 1: Dan Reeves, Jason Garrett, Andy Reid and Philly he obviously
Speaker 1: won a Super Bowl later, Andy Reid and Philly, Dennis
Speaker 1: Green and Jim Mora. Mike Holmgren also coached the Seahawks
Speaker 1: for ten years, but he had previously won a title
Speaker 1: with the Packers, so I'm not counting him. My point is,
Speaker 1: this is the group. Kyle Shanahan has this Super Bowl
Speaker 1: in two more years to prove to me that he
Speaker 1: is not Jeff Fisher or Marvel Lewis.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: This is his This is his comp right now, Evan,
Speaker 1: this is his comp He.
Speaker 2: Isn't better coach than Jeff Fisher. Stop.
Speaker 3: This is it is.
Speaker 1: It has not been done a lot. Jeff Fisher is
Speaker 1: not a bad coach. He was good enough to hang
Speaker 1: around for ten years. But this these are his peers.
Speaker 1: This is his company until he wins one. And for
Speaker 1: what it's worth. So I said he's the longest he's tied.
Speaker 1: Sean McDermott also fits in this category. They're hired the
Speaker 1: same year, so you know that his company right now.
Speaker 2: I'm root in this game, and this is making me
Speaker 2: want to root for him even more.
Speaker 1: His company right now is Sean McDermott, Marv Lewis, Jeff Fisher,
Speaker 1: Dennis Green, Jim Morden. You're gonna say he's Philly, Andy
Speaker 1: Reid because Andy Reid is on this list. I threw
Speaker 1: that one in for you when you missed it.
Speaker 2: He is that I That's a comp I would always
Speaker 2: I use all the time.
Speaker 1: Though he's gotta leave San Francisco then, no, now this
Speaker 1: is his this is his time. He's got to leave,
Speaker 1: saying he needs Patrick Malomes, he needs the best quarterback
Speaker 1: in the league to win a super Bowl.
Speaker 2: If he's Andy Reed, No, no, he's winning super Bowl.
Speaker 1: You got it real quick? Who you got?
Speaker 2: I got the Niners. Go Niners, baby, I'm a Niners fan.
Speaker 4: I'm rooting for the Niners, and I want to just
Speaker 4: I want to shut up all these narratives about my guy,
Speaker 4: Kyle Shanahan, and I want to I don't want to
Speaker 4: hear your lists anymore comparing him to Jeff Fisher and
Speaker 4: Marvin Lewis.
Speaker 1: So it's not my list, that's a fact.
Speaker 2: Picking with I'm picking with that.
Speaker 4: I'm picking with my heart, and I'm saying forty nine
Speaker 4: ers get done and Kyle Shanahan finally gets it done.
Speaker 1: So we will be watching the super Bowl together. We
Speaker 1: will be we will be rooting for the same team,
Speaker 1: the Niners. I'm not betting against Chiefs. I'm not betting
Speaker 1: against Patrick Mahomes. I watched Tom Brady for twenty four
Speaker 1: years playing how many of these games. I know how
Speaker 1: this works when that guy's in this game. I know
Speaker 1: how that works. And I'm not saying Patrick Mahomes is
Speaker 1: Tom Brady, but he's this ever's equivalent. I think the
Speaker 1: Chiefs win. I want the Niners to win because I
Speaker 1: want my takes about Jimmy Garoppolo and the the net
Speaker 1: neutral quarterback and and you know pass catchers on Day two.
Speaker 1: I want all that to pan out, even if it
Speaker 1: means you get your Kyle Shanahan take, but that's who
Speaker 1: I've got. Anyway. We'll be back next week, hopefully finally
Speaker 1: in the same studio once again. I We'll obviously have
Speaker 1: a lot more to get into personnel wise, getting closer
Speaker 1: to free agency and the combine. But until then, for
Speaker 1: Ev Lazar, I'm Alex part Thanks tuning in Patriots Unfiltered
Speaker 1: coming up next.
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