1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: You know, you have to be careful about making a 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: weird show or watching a weird show. It may come 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: back to haunt you. Enjoy ephemeralist production of My Heart 4 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: three D audio for full exposure. Listen with that phones. 5 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: When I say filmmaker, who do you think of? Maybe 6 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: someone who directs features or TV shows or documentaries. Perhaps 7 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: they're employed by a studio or work independently. Of course, 8 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of other filmmakers, students, amateurs, people who 9 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: make art films and short films and cut some video installations. 10 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: And then there's folks like her Harvey. The lens of 11 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,199 Speaker 1: a motion picture projector is an eye that can help 12 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 1: you stimulate, motivate, educate your students. I think the most 13 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: partner thing when I was looking at Harvey was that 14 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: he was a maker of industrial films, films that were 15 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: largely made for distribution in high schools. In particular. I'm 16 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: Bernie Murphy. I'm an associate professor in the School of 17 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: English at Trinity College, Dublin. Films made for the classroom 18 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: have several purposes. It helps when you're choosing a film 19 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: to know that there is a connection between the purpose 20 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: of that film and the techniques used to achieve that purpose. 21 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: It's only when you dig into the whole concept of 22 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: educational film and an educational film company then you realize 23 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,639 Speaker 1: that there's tu tours, there's real legitimate filmmakers who really 24 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: did good ones from Skip Alzheimer and I'm the founder 25 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: of the eighty Geeks Educational Film Archive in Raleigh, North Carolina. 26 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: In an over three decade career, her Carvey directed likely 27 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: hundreds of educational films, but best remembered it's his lone 28 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: feature two. Carnival of Souls in a nut Challenge falls 29 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: under that category of supernatural horror films. Carnival of Souls 30 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: is about a young woman called Mary who is in 31 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: uh drag race. At the very start of the film, 32 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: she's writing in a car with some friends and these 33 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: two guys pull up and the challenge on the show 34 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: a drag race? Do you want to drive? But during 35 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: the race, the women's car falls off the bridge and 36 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: it seems like everyone said, but then Mary clambers up 37 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: on the river bank and she's actually alive. Are you 38 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: all right? How do you get out? But this one 39 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: we better get you back to town. As the phone 40 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: goes on, Mary starts a new job in a new city. 41 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: She moves to Salt Lake City and becomes a church organist. 42 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: It seems things are going okay for a while, but 43 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: then gradually more and more spooky things start to happen. 44 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: She's kind of being haunted by this ghostly creature that 45 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: she sees, the Ghoule, as portrayed by director her Carvey, 46 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: a mute in white face paint. She turns, she sees somebody, 47 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: and then she turns around. It's not there anymore. She 48 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: rents this room whom at this boarding house and meets 49 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: another person who lives at the house. He's trying to 50 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: make time with her, and she's not interested. I thought 51 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: doing this at Elvis. Yeah yeah, when you ask me, 52 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: I'm John Linden, I mean Neil right across the hall. 53 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: Nice to meet, would you excuse me? Yeah, yeah, I'm 54 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: just wondering. Stand right there the creepy neighborhood. Oh, good morning, 55 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: I heard your love. I know you'd be up who 56 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: was clearly a sex predator next door. I really appreciate 57 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: you're taking me out to see me. I've had a 58 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: miserable night. If you had all forget it, come on here, 59 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: join a party drink up. At one point, she's driving 60 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: past this pavilion that used to be at this lake, 61 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: and she's told that they shouldn't go in there because 62 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,119 Speaker 1: it would be illegal. This used to be quiet of place. 63 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: It's been deserted for a long time. Now will you 64 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: take me in? My goodness, no, it isn't safe out 65 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: there anymore. She's beginning to get kind of creeped out, 66 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: and is also being very unsocial. Don't you want to 67 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: join in the things that other people do, share the 68 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: experiences of other people. I don't think capable of being 69 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,799 Speaker 1: very close to people. She's disconnected from her family, her community, 70 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: her job. We'll have to have some sort of reception. 71 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: Couldn't we just get that. I don't suppose it's an 72 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: absolute necessity. I don't know what some of the ladies 73 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: will say. If they say, I'm a fine organist. That 74 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: should be enough, shouldn't it. Well, yeah, of course, we'll 75 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: let it go at that for the time being. But 76 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: my dear, you cannot live in isolation from the human race. 77 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: You know. She goes and is playing for the minister, 78 00:05:51,600 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: but then it kind of becomes creepy. Yeah, circrileg what 79 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: are you playing in this church. Have you no respect? 80 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: Do you feel no reverence? She feels like she's kind 81 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: of losing her mind a little bit, but she's also 82 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: not engaging with people and just feels like out of 83 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: touch with everything. The department store, when she's going to 84 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: buy address, suddenly she's muted and no one can hear 85 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: or see her eye. But there's this very subtle kind 86 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: of rippling effect, so you get the sense that something 87 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: has changed, but you don't quite know why. She talks 88 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: to the doctor, who tries to help her but kind 89 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: of dismisses her concerns. Look, look, you've had a fright. 90 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: Hysteria won't solve anything. Not control yourself. By the end 91 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: of the film, Mary has been kind of pursued by 92 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: a spectral figure and actually spectral figures. She keeps obsessing 93 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: about the pavilion to go back there. He's trying to 94 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: take me back somewhere, and she actually ends up there. 95 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: Everybody there's ghouls, and there's this kind of dance that 96 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: takes place at the pavilion. The following day, they go 97 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: to the pavilion to look for Mary, and they find 98 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: footprints and stand that just end. The cars get over 99 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: there and no no foot them for leading up there 100 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: here and then nothing do you have a return At 101 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: the end of the film to the scene of the 102 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: crash back in Kansas, the police pull the car that 103 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: she was in from the river, and the spoiler alarge 104 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: her body is in the front seat with the two women. 105 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: It becomes clear that actually she has been dead all along. 106 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: The film itself has been about someone who believes they're 107 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: still alive but actually isn't. Well. It's about arguably about 108 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: many different things, but the story beats alone don't really 109 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: give a sense of what it's like to watch Carnival 110 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: of Souls. If you explain the plot, it doesn't do 111 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: justice to the atmosphere that the film has. It has 112 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: a real feel of kind of a Twilight Zone episode, 113 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: what's the matter with everyonehy don't they answer me? But 114 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: it is much more impressionistic, So it's like someone saw 115 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: a bunch of Italian or French cinema and then made 116 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: this future length chiller that has the supernatural element trying 117 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: to prevent me from living, trying to take me back somewhere. 118 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:01,719 Speaker 1: It's one of those films that if you've seen it 119 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: and you sat through it, I think it stays with you. 120 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: It's so intensely focused on Mary and her experience. I 121 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: like being with you, really I do. I don't want 122 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 1: to be alone tonight. I want to be near you 123 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: that I think we end up, even if we don't 124 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: necessarily initially intend to, becoming caught up in her plight 125 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: and the sense that something is terribly wrong. Will you helping? 126 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: I need to help, but we don't quite know what. 127 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: There's that sense that things are somewhat askew in reality. 128 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: I don't belong in the world. What it is, something 129 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: separates me from other people. At first, it might perhaps 130 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: seem a little bit hokey, fill it out, independence on maaker, 131 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: little budget, not really a lot of professional actors. I 132 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: didn't known any harm. I just stopped to get a drink. 133 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 1: But the acting as a very raw kind of quality 134 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: to it at times. I don't know what Some of 135 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: the set pieces in the film we are absolutely superb. 136 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: The extended highway driving scene at night, which is brilliantly staged. 137 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: It is so unique in terms of its cinematography, and 138 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: there's a visual and kind of editorial sophistication there that 139 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: maybe you might necessarily be expecting from a film with 140 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: that budget level. There's also one off culter quality about 141 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: the film that maybe is in part because of its 142 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: low budget nature, as is often the way in low 143 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: budget horror filmmaking, when it's done well, actually adds to 144 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: the unease that it generates. When is the next post leave? 145 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: I must get on. It's not slick. It's not the 146 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: usual kind of narrative grammar that maybe a more conventional 147 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: film would have, but there's a sense that anything can happen. 148 00:10:53,840 --> 00:11:00,719 Speaker 1: Came you doctor, my last hope. It has more in 149 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: common in some ways with an art house film, and 150 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: the ways in which often they will up end are 151 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: sort of visual or narrative expectations. It's not your typical 152 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: I don't want to slag off the horror genre, but 153 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: I think it's unique and it remains unique. It has, 154 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: I think, a genuine eeriness that really holds up even today. 155 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: I think it has a real claim to be one 156 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: of the most important American horror films actually of the 157 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties. I think it's been tremendously influential, but in 158 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: ways that aren't always fully appreciated. But there's no getting 159 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: away from the fact that it is a film about 160 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: the human cost of the interest driving. It's one of 161 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: those films that dramatizes the impact of road fatalities and 162 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: the idea that travel by car and the highways actually 163 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: have a very negative downside. Higas river is right now 164 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: and with all the mud and sand it's carrying and 165 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 1: may never find that car. I've first studied the film 166 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: about six or seven years ago. I was working on 167 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: a book called The Highway Horror Film, which is about 168 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: the cultural ramifications of the interested highway system, the effect 169 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: that the creation of this vast network of highways had 170 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:21,079 Speaker 1: upon the horror film. In particular, by ninety one, something 171 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: like one million Americans had already died in car accidents. 172 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: Today's heavy traffic and high speed cars make the odds 173 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: heavy against the non drinking driver. You had an immense 174 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: road building operation that was underway. Our highways are engineered 175 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: for safety and convenience. It's sort of the dawn of 176 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: American teenagers. Hey, how would you and very like to 177 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: go out to the like tomorrow? What time? Early wealthier 178 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: ones in the nineteen thirties and forties would have had cars, 179 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: But you had kind of a more widespread introduction of 180 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: mass automobility generally, but particularly amongst the younger age group. 181 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: It became apparent with the statistics that they were disproportionately 182 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: affecting young people in particular. A seventeen year old boy 183 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: driving a red convertible comes over a hillcrest and rams 184 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: into a red hardtop that came out of a side rope. 185 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: Here is the young man critically injured, and this is 186 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: his car. So you had in the nineteen fifties a 187 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: raft of films that were essentially targeted towards a teenage audience, 188 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: and there were cautionary films Signal thirty the code that 189 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: has a morbid meeting of the men of the Ohio 190 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: State Highway of Control. A good driver stacy film, a 191 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: good drug film, a good alcohol film, a good VD 192 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: film is scaring you. The lad may have been fast 193 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: on the gridiron, but speed on the highway is at 194 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: best a losing and deadly gay. There's a setup of 195 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 1: the person who you were made to identify with. A 196 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: young man speeds home after enjoying a rollicking state party. 197 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: He goes through something tragic, and then this is why 198 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: it was tragic, because of drugs, because of drinking, because 199 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: they didn't drive safely. One, the damage to the car 200 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: was slight a repair bill of would have covered it easily. Second, 201 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: the man and his wife were planning a party for 202 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: the next day, a party observing his young son's birthday. 203 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: And then there's a reconciliation. If we educate ourselves to 204 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: our dangers and our responsibilities, we can expect accident free highways, 205 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: We can obey the law. We can use courtesy and consideration. 206 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: Let's all of us regard the automobile as a useful 207 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: servant and priceless necessity, not as a weapon to name 208 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: and kill. I think you can see why the genre 209 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: would have internalized, particularly since essentially several generations of American 210 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: teenagers were forced to watch this kind of material real. 211 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: Had the speeding truck driver observed the forty five mile 212 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: per hour speed limit, there would have been a plus 213 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: safety factor. I came to Carnival of Souls because it 214 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: quickly became clear to me that it was really a 215 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: foundational text in the highway horror film. I know, I'll 216 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: tear your story about it. It wasn't our faults. Yeah, 217 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: we were the first ones on the bridge and coming 218 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: along following the tracks and they wanted to get around us, 219 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: I guess, and if they lost control when they dropped 220 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: carry it in crowd of them all. Her carve was 221 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: obviously someone who in a previous filmmaking capacity, had made 222 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: films about the dangers of reckless driving and young people 223 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: misbehaving in cars nobody can afford to drive with alcohol 224 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: present in the body. It makes complete sense to me 225 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: that it would have filtered into popular culture in later years. 226 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: Carnival of Souls literally begins with young people in a 227 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: dry race that they shouldn't be in, and then a 228 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: terrible accident unfolds. And that's a really really typical feature 229 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: of the highway safety films of the nineteen sixties in particular. 230 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: I don't know that it's explicitly saying, you know, kids 231 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: drive carefully, which obviously the highway safety phones were very 232 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: explicitly saying that all of these resulted from violations of 233 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: simple traffic regulations. It's up to you and your own driving. Heavens, 234 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: But there is a kind of a verity style to 235 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: Carnival of Souls. That girl. It has an unusual sense 236 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: of maybe realism for a low budget horror film of 237 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: that era. David four yesterday she was the only one 238 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: of three girls to survive an accident. It makes you 239 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: feel a little of something like how granted? I think 240 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: you could argue that some of that sense of maybe 241 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: reality and one deity has come perhaps from the industrial films. 242 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: What can we do and what can you do to 243 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:19,959 Speaker 1: prevent you've nod of lenquency? You tell us The demand 244 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: for classroom films inspired childhood friends Arthur Wolfe and Russell 245 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: Monster to found the Centron Corporation. What's interesting about them 246 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 1: is that they were based in Lawrence, Kansas. Centron Films 247 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: a firm in Lawrence, Kansas. Have you ever been there? No? 248 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: And Emily always visited the family here. That's where University 249 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: of Kansas is. They were pulling a lot of their 250 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: talent from University of Kansas. That's where her card became from. 251 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 1: I got started making films. Uh I was here at 252 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: the university in the theatrical department, in the theater department 253 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: up here as an instructor at that time, and uh 254 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: I would come down to Centro on once in a 255 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,959 Speaker 1: while as an actor. And finally they asked me if 256 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: I would like to direct for them, and I said sure. 257 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: It would be kind of fun to try. So I 258 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: came down full time as a director at that time, 259 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: and that was twelve thirteen years before we did Carnival. 260 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: After two in the Navy during World War Two and 261 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: a decision not to pursue a career in chemical engineering, 262 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: Herk Harvey enrolled in the University of Kansas to study 263 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: theater while acting and directing school productions. Perk earned bachelor's 264 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: and master's degrees from KU, and with a doctorate from 265 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: the University of Colorado, came back to Kansas to teach 266 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: acting and filmmaking. In nineteen fifty two. While continuing to teach, 267 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: Harvey started working for the centro On Corporation, directing company 268 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: productions for over three decades. What started out as a 269 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 1: director and remained a director for thirty or five years 270 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: at centro On. The interesting thing about it was that 271 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: with each project, of course, the nature of the job change, 272 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: because we were making educational industrials that included a variety 273 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: of subjects, and also in some of the industrials we 274 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: got into musicals and extensive travel and this sort of thing. 275 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: So the job itself was very interesting and that it 276 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 1: was always different, but across the Board of Industrial and 277 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: Educational Films. Casting crew info can be difficult, sometimes impossible 278 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: to track down because credits were rarely ever included, So 279 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: you don't know who directed it, you don't know who 280 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: live it, you don't know who photographed it, you don't 281 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: know any of the actor's names. Accounts vary as to 282 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: how many and which films Herk made for Centron, but 283 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: it's well documented that he worked there from two until 284 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: Here are some of the classics that we believe to 285 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 1: bear his stamp. But couldn't you manage to arrange your 286 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: time so you could have a little fun too. I 287 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: have a certain amount of homework to do, and I 288 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: like to get done on time, but you have a 289 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: whole weekend cheating a snob? Those are ones that are 290 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: open ended, with a student talking in the beginning and 291 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: then telling the story about what's going to happen. Did 292 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: you hear about John Taylor? They voted him out a 293 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: student council representative because he was called cheating who John Taylor? 294 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: Voted down John Taylor? And then you have to decide 295 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: at the end, like what you're gonna do? Is the 296 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 1: group justified in judging everything Sarah does as snobbery. What 297 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: do you think? Why study Industrial Arts is part of 298 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: a series. There's why study Latin? Why study science? Why 299 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: study home economics? Here's an elective that you have in 300 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: high school that you could take, and this is why 301 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: you should take it. And Joe will need score as 302 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: a man who can translate and build those ideas on 303 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: paper into the actual homes, churches, schools, and factors of 304 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: the future. Some of you may be spakesmen who must 305 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: understand the impact and implications of science on society manners 306 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: in school. This boy is acting up in class and 307 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: is not allowed to take recess and see has to 308 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: clean the chalkboards. Larry, I just wanted to remind you 309 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: it's your boards, Thomas Rand. We're gonna play ball at 310 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: recess honors. You better get somebody else, some girl and Chalky. Fine, Larry, 311 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: my name is Chocky. I think he's a devil who's 312 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: actually chopped. I think I can trust you, Larry. After all, 313 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to be your friend. Basically takes the 314 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: boy to task on his behavior. I'm here for a 315 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 1: purpose to do something about your manners. What do you mean, 316 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: my man, I'm worried about you. Larry, Hey, hey, what 317 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: are you doing? I'm gonna wipe you out, That's what 318 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: my heavens. You are a bad mannered young man, aren't you, 319 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: and teaches him a lesson. I'm ready to go, Larry, 320 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: oh jee, No, Chalky, I can't do that. I need 321 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: you to help me with my manners. No, Larry, you 322 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: don't need me anymore. You can learn good manners yourself 323 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: by watching the good manners of others, and he eventually 324 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: learns from it. Larry, you've done an excellent job on 325 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: the chalkboard. Thank you, Miss Ryan. What about prejudice is 326 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 1: pretty good because it is high school students. I don't 327 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: know about you, but I think the best party you've 328 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: ever said North And there is one student who you 329 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: never see. This is the story of Bruce Jones, who 330 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: walked in a shadow of hate and suspicions. Who is 331 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: being prejudiced against? You see the reconciliation. You see how 332 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 1: they process that, and it's pretty great. The thing is, 333 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,719 Speaker 1: it wasn't Bruce at all. I was the one neatly 334 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: fitting people into categories because of where they go to church, 335 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: or what their fathers do, or what the color of 336 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 1: their skin is. The Innocent Party is one of several 337 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 1: venerial disease films that Centron did. The Quarkscrews. Things of 338 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: the terms of these films talk about young adults and 339 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: kids are having sex and they're getting venerial disease, and 340 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: I'm talking about it and it's a problem. I'm not 341 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: here to like a moral jud but you and I 342 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: know that it was kindtracted sexual intercourse with an infected person. 343 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: That that beat that only summer of love thing that 344 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: was much later. Choosing a classroom film is kind of 345 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: an ad Proper use of film heightens the importance of 346 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: the teacher and makes his contribution all the more necessary. 347 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: This is how you use an educational film. Such films 348 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 1: provide common experiences through which your students can more easily 349 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: gain a new appreciation of themselves and the factors which 350 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: shape their lives. The narrator here seen on camera is 351 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: her curvy himself. Let's take a look at some screen examples. 352 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: They would probably give that away to a school system 353 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: and say, but here, here's a film about choosing classroom films, 354 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 1: and here's a catalog, and you get to go through 355 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: and pick what fits and why you would pick a 356 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: film for a given class. You will develop your own 357 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,199 Speaker 1: skill in evaluating films by learning to recognize some of 358 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: the film techniques we have demonstrated here. Now, each of 359 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: these serve an essential purpose, but remember too that any 360 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: one of them may serve a secondary purpose, which may 361 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: be very important in relation to your teaching goals. In 362 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: an educational film, you have eleven minutes to tell what 363 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: you need to tell, and so how do you relay 364 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: that information? How do you break down the shots? You 365 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: have to be very efficient, and you have to be 366 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: very deliberate. I feel like that deliberateness and that efficiency 367 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: helped Carnival of Souls. Thirty five millimeter was very expensive, 368 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: and the fact that they had shot so many educational 369 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: films was kind of a similar criteria of look and 370 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 1: got to knock it out in the thoughtful way, in 371 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: a smart way. I don't think shots were wasted in 372 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: that film. The idea of doing a thirty five millimeter 373 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 1: feature film for thirteen thousand dollars cache is a little 374 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: staggering even then, but we did get the money and 375 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: decided yes, we can do it, and start and shooting 376 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: the film in order to make Carnival. Harvey relied heavily 377 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: on his Centron rollo. Dex Carnival of Souls writer John 378 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: Clifford was also on staff with Centron. The nice thing 379 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: about working with her is that, over the years, to 380 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: come up with something difficult, he always says, well, you're right, 381 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: that's the way you think it ought to be, and 382 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: I'll get it shut. I'll try to, so you know, 383 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: writers appreciate it. He's asked me do the writing, and 384 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: I stay out of his dre There's a lot of 385 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 1: actors in there that show up in Centron films, and 386 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: a lot of locations that show up in Centron films 387 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: as well, So it's like, oh, I know that guy. 388 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: Obviously that guy grow up like he was in this 389 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: y study science film, and now he's a hot rotter. 390 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: Larry Sneakers, the cut who began the drag race which 391 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: started the film, Joe, drag your foot boy. Look what 392 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: we got here? Now you wanted right? Uh. Sneagus was 393 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: also the movie's production manager, so he borrowed pretty heavily 394 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 1: from there, and he also borrowed pretty heavily from University 395 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: of Kansas is Dramatic School. Come on, what do you 396 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: I'm an alcoholic look. I just like the s thought 397 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: that they often a good mood. That's all. You must 398 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 1: be hilarious by noons. Lifelong theater teacher Sidney Burger, who 399 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: played the creepy neighbor John Lindon was another k you alone. 400 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 1: Wonderful time I was raving student here at KU when 401 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: I Will were made in Karl Soul and the story 402 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: about he was kind of interesting. One job On in 403 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: the audience, Lara Sneaks probably hates Michael because I took 404 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: the part away from him. He had all those resources 405 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,239 Speaker 1: available and just tapped all that because he knew all 406 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: those people herk Harvey had access to studios and filming 407 00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:01,959 Speaker 1: and development and sound because he filmmaking at the University 408 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: of Kansas and Lawrence. This is Candice Hilligos, who played Mary, 409 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: the lead role in Carnival Souls. Thank you for the coffee. 410 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 1: It was an sanitary but delicious He thought that by 411 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: making Carnival, if Carnival were successful, he could turn that 412 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: into a major studio that would make more and higher 413 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: budgeted movies. Carnival was a notoriously scrappy production. I've seen 414 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: the budget estimated around thirty dollars but in interviews Harvey 415 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: said it was less for the starring part. Hilligos reportedly 416 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: need I was really the only paid person, and that 417 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: was a great payment. Raised Body, who was one of 418 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: our cinematographers, said he got seventy five dollars. It was 419 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: shot in twenty eight days, and sometimes we went around 420 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: the clock. We went twenty four hours, so it was 421 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: very hard. I had no idea that in a low 422 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: budget there's no double You do all the stunts, So 423 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: if they want you to fall off a bridge, you 424 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: have to do it. They want you to crash a car, 425 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: you have to crash it. He didn't tell me that 426 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: when we raced across the bridge in a car that 427 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: underneath was a big gas line, and he's wondering if 428 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: the two cars going across together. He was very worried 429 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: that that gas line could come apart and explode. So 430 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,719 Speaker 1: there were a number of moments like that that I 431 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: had no idea. As the friends said by coint, it 432 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: out about five places that you could have been killed. 433 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: One of the stunts Candice had to perform was emerging 434 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: from the lake after her car had fallen off the bridge. 435 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: When we came back to film that Indian summer had 436 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: gone and winter had come. I said, I don't think 437 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: I can go in the water. They're standing there, they're 438 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: wearing mittens and hats, and they're asking me to go 439 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: into that water again. I said, I don't know if 440 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: I can do it. I stood in the water and 441 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: her Carvey was standing with me in bathing suits and 442 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: the sweater. He said, if you don't do it, we 443 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: don't have an ending. And I said I can't do it. 444 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: So he pushed me and I started to scream. I 445 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: screamed so loudly that a highway patrolman out on the 446 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: highway heard my screens and came roaring through the woods 447 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: looking to see what was happening. When he saw them, 448 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: perk Harvey picked me up and threw me in the water. 449 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: He jumped out of his car and he ran out 450 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: with his gun and he says, what's going on here? 451 00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: What are you doing with that girl? And they try 452 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: I had to tell it was just a movie, and 453 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: he says, well, I'm not leaving. I'm watching you. Remember 454 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: the day you've got in the car and held me in. 455 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: There was a policeman there and he had to leave 456 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: or arrest me. So I guess you thought it was 457 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: diplomatic to leave, and I think Candice could have killed 458 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: him and me both because it was cold. The film 459 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: was primarily shot on and in fact designed around location, 460 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: most importantly the abandoned Salt Air Pavilion on Utah's Great 461 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: Salt Lake, which may have inspired the whole film, as 462 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: it is the story's literal carnival of souls. It all 463 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: started here at the Kansas River and in the active 464 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: imagination of Mr Harvey. As I told you, I went 465 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: on vacation and coming back from Los Angeles, I saw 466 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: this place, Salt Air, which is located just outside of 467 00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: Salt Lake. It's very Russian arabisk In architecture, and I 468 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: saw it at sunset. It was the weirdest looking thing 469 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: I've ever seen. So I stopped the car and walked 470 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: about a half mile to take a look at it 471 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: and noticed it was deserted. Uh quite a way is 472 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: now from the lake because Salt Lake had gone down, 473 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: and so the amusement park is sitting away from the lake. 474 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: So I came back and talked to John, showed him 475 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: a couple of the pictures that I took when I 476 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: was there, and said, you know, it's a great location. 477 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: We've got to figure out something to do with that. 478 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: So John, in his usual way of being invented, comes 479 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: up with Carnival of Souls. It was some sort of 480 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: lakeside attraction where the lake had basically evaporated, and so 481 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: it was just kind of there in the middle of nowhere. 482 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: Right off the bat. You see it, You're like, what 483 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: the handle is that? Why is it in the middle 484 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: of what looks like a desert? What's going on? I mean, 485 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: that was some amazing scouting, very thoughtful use of location. 486 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: Being out there alone in that pavilion, which is big 487 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: enough to hold three thousand, the crew started to get scared. 488 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: They actually felt very spooked by the whole place, and 489 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: so they said, when everyone goes to the cars, we 490 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: go together. It burned down seven years after we had 491 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: been there, and this is the only footage they've ever 492 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: had on it. Location also informed a character choice, dron 493 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: around and the theme of the carnival score so much 494 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: pipe work. Well, for a start, I can't think of 495 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: another horror film I know where the heroin is an organist, 496 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: and it's not just on the soundtrack. It's actually a 497 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: really interesting part of the film itself. Well I play. 498 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: But they did that because they realized they had an 499 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: organ factory, and they said, wouldn't it be wonderful if 500 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: we could use the organ factory. So let's make her 501 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: an organ You've got the amazing the atmospheric score, which 502 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: right from the start you get the close up of 503 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: the titles on the murky water of the river where 504 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,800 Speaker 1: the cars with the dead bodies, and you get the 505 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: probably as horror of yours we have a subconscious association 506 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: of nineties horror films or you know, fhatom of the 507 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: opera on the organ. But actually it makes sense in 508 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,760 Speaker 1: the film as well, where Mary's job is to play 509 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: church music. And yet one of the interesting themes in 510 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: the film is that she's clearly not religious. And what 511 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: does she say that it's just for the paycheck, it's 512 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: all about the money for her. Well, Mary, you'll make 513 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 1: a fine organist for that church. Be very satisfying to you. 514 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: I think it's just a job. To me, Oh, it's 515 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 1: not quite the attitude for going into church work. I'm 516 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: not taking the vows. I'm only going to play the 517 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,439 Speaker 1: org And people keep telling her you need to play 518 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: like you've got a soul. Mary. It takes more than 519 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: intellect to be a musician, but your soul into a 520 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: room that's very subtle, and I feel sorry for you 521 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: and your lack of soul. In After speedy and thrifty production, 522 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: her Carvey was ready to find distribution for his debut feature. 523 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: Back in the day, if you had a good distributor, 524 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: they would play your film for years. You'd make a 525 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: print of it, or a couple of prints of it, 526 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: and then they would make them way slowly around the country. 527 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: Good evening folks had a hearty welcome to our drive 528 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: in theater. We have a wonderful evenings entertainment lined up 529 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: for you, one that will provide several hours of pleasurable 530 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: relaxation and diversion for you and your family. There were 531 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: something like eighteen thousand drive in movie theaters in the 532 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: United States at that time line, and they thought if 533 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: they could take this movie as an independent and sell 534 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: it as a double bill to movie drive in theaters, 535 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,399 Speaker 1: they would have eighteen thousand theaters buying their movie. So 536 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: they showed it to a couple of drive in people 537 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: and they looked at it and they said, well, you 538 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: know it kind of looks artsy for us, and they said, 539 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: what do you mean? And they said, well, you know, 540 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: shouldn't you have her beat up a little and you 541 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: know she's in a car accident, shouldn't she come out 542 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 1: of the water with no clothes on. I mean, if 543 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: you're going to make it a double bill with Lawn 544 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: Channi Jrs. The Devil's Messenger, it's too artistic looking for 545 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: a double bill. And I don't think they realized that. 546 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: At the time he was trying to market Carnival of Souls. 547 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: Somebody was like, well, have you made other films, And 548 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, like a thousand other films, all these 549 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: educational films. Now about those manners, I'm afraid you've got 550 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: to improve them. Yeah, who says, so I do, and 551 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: practically everyone else that We're never shown a theater, but 552 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: they certainly got more eyeballs than a lot of films 553 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:22,839 Speaker 1: I got shown in theaters. Finally, he found this very 554 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: small distributor called Her Flying. He said, well, I'll pick 555 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: on your movie herks as well. You can have it 556 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 1: for theaters, but you cannot have it for television. It 557 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 1: got kind of a slightly botched release. It didn't have 558 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: a very wide distribution in the first place, and then 559 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,280 Speaker 1: herk says he went down he was filming a documentary. 560 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: Why the time he came home, the first checks from 561 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: her sly and had bounced. I went to South America 562 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 1: on another film, and when I came back it was 563 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,879 Speaker 1: obvious that they owed us considerable money but hadn't paid 564 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: us a cent. And then he heard from a friend, 565 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: it's one o'clock am in Florida and I'm watching Carnivals 566 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: on television. Well, then her found out that her slon 567 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: had sold the movie to a hundred TV stations, and 568 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: he became a fugitive and disappeared to some foreign country, 569 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: so no one could find him. When I started investigating, 570 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: I got no replies, and the next thing I knew, 571 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: the president of the company had gone to Europe and 572 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: the funds were gone with him. Then it was impossible 573 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: to trace it all down. Our Carvey didn't subsequently do 574 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 1: any feature length films after that. He said he never 575 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: do another one. He had done over seventy documentaries and commercials, 576 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,839 Speaker 1: so he went back to filming them, but he said 577 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 1: he couldn't go through what he went through at the time. 578 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: I know he went back to making educational films. Ben 579 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: john Is making films up until mid eighties, so he 580 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 1: was a successful educational filmmaker after the fact, and that's 581 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: kind of what he did. Pay the bills. Arguably, Herk's 582 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: most famous corporate film came in nineteen eighties Shake Hands 583 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: with Danger, Shake Hands with Danger, Shake Hands with Danger, 584 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: Need a guy who ought to know. I used to 585 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:33,399 Speaker 1: laugh in Safety. Now they called me three finger Joe 586 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: Centron a couple of films for Caterpillar Heavy Equipment, Shake 587 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 1: Hands with Danger and Signals were I met the guy 588 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,320 Speaker 1: who wrote the music for Shake Hands with Danger, Jim Stringer, 589 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: and we talked a lot about how this film was 590 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 1: made and how popular it was. Shake Hands with Danger 591 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: Taking Chance. He said, you won't fall, and you'll shave 592 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: yourself minute, but you may damn well lose it all. 593 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: I'd like to claim credit for making it popular again 594 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,719 Speaker 1: to a whole new generation of people, because it is wonderful. 595 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: It is like an example of a film that is 596 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: still being reference today, and it is still being shown today. 597 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 1: Hervey's last directing work on record is one segment of 598 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: an episode in the first season of Reading Rainbow, And 599 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 1: I might even take time out from my favorite rainy 600 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:39,400 Speaker 1: day sport. Perk himself plays the policeman who can't resist 601 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:45,280 Speaker 1: the alula of hopping in a puddle. Those school today 602 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: and I've woken them a dad again. School and shopping? 603 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:55,720 Speaker 1: What a thing? Don't feel the blue? Go down your coat? 604 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 1: And radar day shoot Botopol. The botched release of Carnival 605 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 1: of Souls into could have been the end of the story. 606 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,439 Speaker 1: Her Carvey might have joined the ranks of countless other 607 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: forgotten filmmakers, just another ghost at the party. But it 608 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: turns out the Carnival, like its main character, got the 609 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 1: chance to live a second life. You say, what is 610 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: it called classic? That kind of concept really hit in 611 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 1: the eighties. I mean there were cult movies prior to 612 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: that that we're kind of midnight movies that showed in 613 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,319 Speaker 1: some theaters at night. John Waters was definitely part of 614 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 1: that Rocky Heart picture show, Razor Head. Those are all 615 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,200 Speaker 1: popular things where people would get stone and go see 616 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: a movie at midnight. Just cut them up like regular chickens. Sure, 617 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 1: just cut them up like regular chickens. Carnival Souls maybe 618 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 1: had that some programmer was like, oh, this film was 619 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 1: awesome and programmed it, but it didn't take off really 620 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: until it was available on VHS. After the distribution debacle, 621 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: the copyright lapsed on Carnival of Souls, bringing the film 622 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: into the public domain. Ironically, that's why people started watching 623 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: it again. When the VHS stores and the VHS market appeared, 624 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,319 Speaker 1: it was a frenzy of content people trying to find 625 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,319 Speaker 1: content to put on VHS tapes to sell the fact 626 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,399 Speaker 1: that this had a public domain status meant that there 627 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: were lots of companies that were finding a print, transferring 628 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,359 Speaker 1: it and then releasing it for sale on VHS, so 629 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:54,479 Speaker 1: in dollar bins you would have Carnival Souls. I think 630 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,160 Speaker 1: that's what made it cult status, is the fact that 631 00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,200 Speaker 1: you could see it everywhere. It was kind of like, 632 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:09,360 Speaker 1: it's a wonderful life. It's all one life and sky. 633 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,959 Speaker 1: When It's a wonderful Life came out, it wasn't really 634 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,719 Speaker 1: well received. People didn't like it, the story, it was old, 635 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 1: too weird, please I want to live again. I want 636 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: to live again. And it fell into public domain because 637 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: they just didn't renew it. The studio was like but 638 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,319 Speaker 1: TV stations started showing it because it was free to 639 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 1: show it, and it was Christmas related, and it had 640 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:39,280 Speaker 1: like actors that people liked. Who are you? I told you, George, 641 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 1: I'm your God, your angel God, I know what you 642 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 1: told about it. So it got super popular and so 643 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 1: popular that Republic Pictures like retroactively figured out a way 644 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: to pull it out of public domain. But the nature 645 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,240 Speaker 1: of it being in public domain that's what made it popular. 646 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: If they had renewed the copyright, it wouldn't have been popular. Definitely. 647 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 1: I want to get out of here. I want to 648 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 1: get away from here. I think that that's what happened here, 649 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,279 Speaker 1: is that you had lots of people that could see 650 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 1: it easily all over the United States. It's bound now lone, yeah, nine, 651 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,920 Speaker 1: and you watch it at home and it has a 652 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,319 Speaker 1: good slow burn to it, or it was shown on 653 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,800 Speaker 1: your chiller theater back in the day because it was 654 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 1: inexpensive for them to show it anyway. I know your problem. 655 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,920 Speaker 1: You just saw a carnival of souls. How would you 656 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: describe it? Was unsanitary but delicious. That's how you kind 657 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: of seed occult film, as you just show it all 658 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: the time everywhere I gather. In an American context, it 659 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 1: was shown quite regularly late at night in the wee 660 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,240 Speaker 1: hours of the morning, and so it was probably caught 661 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:54,840 Speaker 1: by a lot of people who didn't quite know what 662 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 1: they were watching everywhere. I'm not going to let me go. 663 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,560 Speaker 1: I think that he did get to see the resurgence 664 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,960 Speaker 1: of the film as a cult status, which is great. 665 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,440 Speaker 1: It wasn't just he did it and then it languished 666 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: and died. People were actively still seeing it. And we're 667 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,800 Speaker 1: beginning to make phone calls about her. Her attorney, you 668 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,400 Speaker 1: were in that film. When this was first shown, it 669 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,320 Speaker 1: was shown primarily in drive and it was part of 670 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 1: a double bill with The Devil's Messenger. And now in 671 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: it's rerelease, it's being shown in the art houses where 672 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:29,759 Speaker 1: just where we would like to head up the first 673 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,840 Speaker 1: time around, And as far as we're concerned, that's great. 674 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:38,040 Speaker 1: Makes all the difference. It became an underground swell. It 675 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 1: started being picked up from colleges and it started to 676 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,799 Speaker 1: grow and to grow and to grow. And then her said, 677 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,439 Speaker 1: U teacher said, I was just in Sweden, and she said, 678 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,680 Speaker 1: I'm bringing you your reviews for Carnivals Souls in Sweden, 679 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: And then he learned it was in Germany, it was 680 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:02,560 Speaker 1: in England. It went to Italy. He got invited to 681 00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,400 Speaker 1: the Munique Film Festival. When he got to the theater, 682 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,520 Speaker 1: it was sold out, and he said afterwards that kept 683 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,120 Speaker 1: him on the stage till two o'clock in the morning, 684 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:17,680 Speaker 1: asking him questions. It's nice too, though, isn't it when 685 00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 1: the underdogs finally start to get a bit of recognition. 686 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,359 Speaker 1: I think there's a nice kind of afterlife for this 687 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,680 Speaker 1: film that that will probably only continue to get stronger, 688 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:32,560 Speaker 1: which is very well deserved. The name Carnival's Souls was 689 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: licensed from writer John Clifford for a film that appeared 690 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,800 Speaker 1: to have nothing to do with the original. They took 691 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,680 Speaker 1: the name of the film and they made a flasher 692 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:54,400 Speaker 1: film out of it. West Graven Presents Show Time Carnival 693 00:46:54,680 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 1: of Souls. It never got so to a theater. It 694 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:05,520 Speaker 1: went just to DVDs and no one ever really saw it. 695 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 1: Partly it was alludic. Candice Hiligoths had also been developing 696 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:16,279 Speaker 1: her own sequel. I spent two years building interest in it, 697 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 1: and we had an option, and then our option ended 698 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:25,160 Speaker 1: and we went back to resign it with her Carvey again, 699 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:30,880 Speaker 1: and her Carvey was dying of cancer. Her Carvey passed 700 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:36,840 Speaker 1: away in Despite the fact, the only helmed one feature film. 701 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,239 Speaker 1: The legacy of his cinematic style has lived on all 702 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,399 Speaker 1: kinds of productions have been accused of taking influence from 703 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: Carnival Souls. When Carnival sort of got lost in the beginning, 704 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,319 Speaker 1: it became a hit when it was revived twenty years later, 705 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:59,399 Speaker 1: and then everyone said Carnival started it all. Carnival of Souls. Really, 706 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,960 Speaker 1: Haspile owned a long tradition of American late twentieth century 707 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:09,720 Speaker 1: horror films. Our movie was copied many times. In fact, 708 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,960 Speaker 1: the most famous one was Michael Jackson's thriller who was 709 00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,760 Speaker 1: inspired from the ghouls that were dancing in the Salt 710 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,319 Speaker 1: Air pavilion. I'm not like other guys, of course, not 711 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,120 Speaker 1: that's why I love you. No, I mean I'm different. 712 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,680 Speaker 1: Given David Lynch, I'd be surprised if he hadn't seen it, 713 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: given an obviously a cinephile, and would know. I think 714 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:44,640 Speaker 1: his antecedents well. But in my hot even people thought 715 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,719 Speaker 1: blue Velvet and carry a girl who lives in that 716 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:54,520 Speaker 1: creepy house with a crazy mother had some elements of 717 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: Carnival in it. Then, of course Beetle Juice copied us beetlejuice, 718 00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:05,799 Speaker 1: it's your dad. Now I have a living dead. In 719 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,120 Speaker 1: the beginning, George ra Merrow talked about how he had 720 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:17,799 Speaker 1: been Carnival and I had inspired him. What's happening? What Happening? 721 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,439 Speaker 1: Night of the Living Dead was also maybe a little 722 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,160 Speaker 1: bit overlooked at the time, but did quite rapidly gain 723 00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,240 Speaker 1: a culture reputation and then a mainstream reputation because George 724 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,520 Speaker 1: ra Merrow obviously went on to even bigger and better things. 725 00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,280 Speaker 1: Don't worry about him, and I can handle him. Probably 726 00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:34,440 Speaker 1: be a lot more of them as soon as they 727 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,759 Speaker 1: find out about us, whereas that didn't quite happen unfortunately 728 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:44,319 Speaker 1: for her. Carvey Carnival two is an early example of 729 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:48,040 Speaker 1: a now popular movie trip the twist ending in which 730 00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,880 Speaker 1: the perspective character was dead all along, living out a 731 00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:56,399 Speaker 1: ghost walk upon the earth. Carnival of Souls really has 732 00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,720 Speaker 1: spawned a long tradition of American little fenty a century 733 00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,280 Speaker 1: horror films about people who have died in car accidents 734 00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,560 Speaker 1: but don't actually know it till the end of the film. 735 00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,680 Speaker 1: So that's where I kind of came across it. Sorry 736 00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:14,719 Speaker 1: to take stop. It was God to tell me what 737 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,600 Speaker 1: to do you obviously have the precedent of classic nineteenth 738 00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:22,360 Speaker 1: century American literature with Ambrose Spears an occurrence Atdile Creek Bridge, 739 00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:32,600 Speaker 1: which is maybe the pioneering literary text of that type 740 00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:40,120 Speaker 1: promise of that really quick in Civil War, somebody's been 741 00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,840 Speaker 1: hung for either being a trader, was a prisoner, or 742 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,720 Speaker 1: something like. That's being hung like on this bridge, and 743 00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,840 Speaker 1: it seems like the protagonist has escaped death by hanging. 744 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,280 Speaker 1: The rope breaks as he's been hung, and he lands 745 00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,600 Speaker 1: in the river and basically swims away. He's being shot 746 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,440 Speaker 1: at all that stuff, but eventually escaped. He goes through 747 00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,920 Speaker 1: all these adventures and makes his way back to his girlfriend. 748 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:11,239 Speaker 1: His sweetheart, who is on a plantation, is running to her, 749 00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,719 Speaker 1: and he runs to embrace her and kiss her, and 750 00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:20,120 Speaker 1: then spoiler alert, he's hume the whole story is actually 751 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,600 Speaker 1: hallucination he's had in the moments before death, and so 752 00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:27,919 Speaker 1: what it is is it's everything that happened as he 753 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:33,000 Speaker 1: was descending being hung. So it's like his life suddenly 754 00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:36,920 Speaker 1: fleshed out this whole thing and then he died. Hornible 755 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,440 Speaker 1: Souls has that same type of feel to occurrence at 756 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,279 Speaker 1: out Creek Bridge the commonality of their dead and their 757 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,319 Speaker 1: brain is kind of going down this crazy you know, 758 00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,239 Speaker 1: it's like a dream. It felt like I was in 759 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,560 Speaker 1: there for days and it was only like thirty seconds. 760 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,040 Speaker 1: Is she going to hell? Or is she being escorted 761 00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,799 Speaker 1: to death? It kind of plays with a lot of things. 762 00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,000 Speaker 1: It doesn't spell anything else, which I think is kind 763 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:07,839 Speaker 1: of great. And there is that payoff that educational film has, 764 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:09,880 Speaker 1: which is, you know, pulling a dead body out of 765 00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,920 Speaker 1: a car. So don't dry and race because you'll be 766 00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:21,400 Speaker 1: haunted in the beer seconds before you die. For a 767 00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,880 Speaker 1: guy who devoted his professional life to the education of 768 00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:29,239 Speaker 1: others through the art and grammar of filmmaking and gave 769 00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,080 Speaker 1: us so many gems that may have needed the passage 770 00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,880 Speaker 1: of time to fully appreciate her, Carvey seems to have 771 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:40,960 Speaker 1: remained pretty humble about his one crossover success. Well, all 772 00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,120 Speaker 1: I've said about Carnival Soulvis and it's a heck of 773 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:48,640 Speaker 1: a note when a film that has failed financially is 774 00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,480 Speaker 1: your total breadth of success in the future film market. 775 00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,920 Speaker 1: This episode of a Femily was written and produced by 776 00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:32,600 Speaker 1: Max Williams, Trevor Young, and Dallas Williams. With special thanks 777 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,720 Speaker 1: to Brett Wood, Anti Terry and Tiffany Defote from Cult 778 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:40,080 Speaker 1: Radio Lagoga for allowing us to excerpt their interview with 779 00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:44,520 Speaker 1: Candice Hillip on crag Law. Hear the full broadcast and 780 00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:50,120 Speaker 1: much more at c r A g G Radio dot com. 781 00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,920 Speaker 1: Bernice Murphy is the author of the book The Highway 782 00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:58,280 Speaker 1: Horror Film and the upcoming The California goth And Fiction Film. 783 00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,960 Speaker 1: Follow her on Twitter that Murph Gotha and Skip. Elzheimer 784 00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,040 Speaker 1: is the eyes and ears behind the Avy Geeks ephemeral 785 00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,760 Speaker 1: film mark watch her Carvey Centron shorts and other sixteen 786 00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:16,280 Speaker 1: million in the Masterpieces over at a vy geeks dot com, 787 00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:41,120 Speaker 1: links in videos on our website ephemeral dot com. Wh