Speaker 1: I stress out about my career a lot, not just
Speaker 1: the day to day of my job, but big picture,
Speaker 1: long term stuff. There's a whole field, it's called career
Speaker 1: coaching that claims it can help me figure this stuff out.
Speaker 1: This week we decide to put career coaches to the test.
Speaker 1: This is game Plan. Hi. I'm Rebecca Greenfield and I'm
Speaker 1: francesco Leagy, and this week we are talking about career coaches,
Speaker 1: those people who ostensibly can help you figure out all
Speaker 1: of your work anxieties and what you want to do
Speaker 1: with the rest of your life. This came up because
Speaker 1: you and I, as we do, we're chatting about our
Speaker 1: own work anxieties, and the things that bother us about
Speaker 1: our jobs are just kind of nagg at us about
Speaker 1: where you want to be in our lives down the road. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was telling you about how I feel kind of
Speaker 1: stretched then, Like I do this show, which I like,
Speaker 1: and I'm a reporter, which I like, and I've done
Speaker 1: video stuff, and I've done just so many different things
Speaker 1: that I don't know that I've ever really concentrated on
Speaker 1: one thing to get really good at it. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people have that feeling of doing a
Speaker 1: bunch of different things that aren't necessarily the one job
Speaker 1: that they got hired for. And I have kind of
Speaker 1: a related but different issue, which is as astute listeners
Speaker 1: may have noticed the name at the end of our
Speaker 1: creditist change, the person who is ahead of podcasts here
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg is me. So it's cool that I got
Speaker 1: this great opportunity and am in a role where I've
Speaker 1: expanded my job, but it means that more of my
Speaker 1: job now is about managing and things like doing this
Speaker 1: podcast asked, which I also really like. Um, it's a
Speaker 1: little bit at odds with it, Like I want to
Speaker 1: keep making things because that's how I got here, but
Speaker 1: it's harder because management is a job in itself. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's not an uncommon thing that I've heard
Speaker 1: from people who shift into management that usually you are
Speaker 1: qualified for management because you got really good at the
Speaker 1: job you were doing, and then they're like, okay, we'll
Speaker 1: put you in charge. And often that means you're no
Speaker 1: longer doing the job you want to do, and you're
Speaker 1: doing a completely different job than you were doing before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: totally different set of skills and one that I want
Speaker 1: to continue to grow and get better. At but as
Speaker 1: with you, it's just sort of like raises these big questions.
Speaker 1: What am I best at, what should I be doing,
Speaker 1: how do I divide my time? Etcetera, etcetera. So I
Speaker 1: was talking about my anxieties with a friend and she
Speaker 1: suggested a career coach, which is something I've never taken seriously.
Speaker 1: But the coaching industry is this huge industry that exists.
Speaker 1: It's expo it. Over the last ten years, there's an
Speaker 1: International Coach Federation and membership has more than tripled in
Speaker 1: that time. And this is like a body that like
Speaker 1: certifies people to do this job. Yeah, I know, I've
Speaker 1: heard of career coaches, and I can remember one person
Speaker 1: ever telling me that they saw a career coach um
Speaker 1: when they were trying to figure out the next step
Speaker 1: in their career. But yeah, it isn't It isn't something
Speaker 1: that I would have previously signed up for myself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it does feel a little bit mushy. I've covered executive coaches,
Speaker 1: which are like career coaches but for bosses and founders
Speaker 1: and leaders, and they're kind of like therapists but for
Speaker 1: your jobs. The one who comes to mind is this
Speaker 1: guy Jerry Kelowna. He's kind of famous in the startup world,
Speaker 1: and he was on the podcast Startup and he met
Speaker 1: with the founders of Gimlet, which is a podcast company,
Speaker 1: and they play a part of their session in the episode,
Speaker 1: and it sounds like therapy. They're talking about his parents
Speaker 1: and how he was raised and you know, resentments from
Speaker 1: childhood and it gets really emotional and somehow this is
Speaker 1: supposed to help the founder, you know, be better at
Speaker 1: delegating tasks at work. So that's kind of my associations
Speaker 1: with coaching. But maybe you know, what they say about
Speaker 1: therapy is that like everybody could use a therapist, even
Speaker 1: if you're not actively having a lot of problems in
Speaker 1: your life, like there's probably something you could work through.
Speaker 1: So maybe career coaching is the same thing. Like even
Speaker 1: if your career is going pretty all right, maybe you
Speaker 1: could use a career coach. Definitely. But the difference is
Speaker 1: that therapists are trained and certified, and a lot of
Speaker 1: coaching isn't regulated, Like there is that federation, but you
Speaker 1: don't have to have a certificate. I think some universities
Speaker 1: teach coaching now, but like the credibility is still fuzzy.
Speaker 1: You don't necessarily know what the bona fides are of
Speaker 1: the person that you're talking to. And even if they, like,
Speaker 1: you know, even if they are certified as a career coach, like,
Speaker 1: what does that even mean. It's still such a nascent
Speaker 1: industry that there probably aren't really enough safeguards to know.
Speaker 1: It's like, you don't know exactly what somebody has learned
Speaker 1: that gotten that certification, and you're spending money on this.
Speaker 1: It can cost anywhere from like a hundred dollars a
Speaker 1: session to hundreds of dollars a session, so you could
Speaker 1: be throwing money away. How do you know when you're done?
Speaker 1: How many sessions do you have? Just all very mark.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, I think there's a sense that
Speaker 1: there are certain issues that nobody else in your life
Speaker 1: is really able to help you cope with. Like you know,
Speaker 1: chatting to your friends inventing about your career is is
Speaker 1: nice for letting us steam, but they can't necessarily give
Speaker 1: you answers that are right for you. And you know
Speaker 1: your actual therapist is going to help you with the
Speaker 1: mom and dad's stuff, um, but they don't know what
Speaker 1: your industry is about. So the idea of somebody who
Speaker 1: gets what you do, who knows generally about getting jobs
Speaker 1: and changing jobs and thinks about this stuff all the time.
Speaker 1: The idea of talking to somebody like that in a
Speaker 1: really focused way actually does kind of appeal to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I find the whole thing incredibly enticing despite all my skepticism,
Speaker 1: Like I really do you want this person in your life?
Speaker 1: You want? We all want guidance, or at least I do. Um.
Speaker 1: So the only way for us to really figure out
Speaker 1: if this career coaching thing is worth it was to
Speaker 1: check it out for ourselves. So you and I did
Speaker 1: a little research and got a recommendation for a career coach.
Speaker 1: Her name is Vicky Solemmy. She charges a hundred fifty
Speaker 1: dollars a session, and a few weeks ago we each
Speaker 1: went to see her to hash out our career agst.
Speaker 1: On a Wednesday morning a few weeks ago, I went
Speaker 1: up to the fourth floor of a giant midtown Manhattan
Speaker 1: office building and into an empty conference room to meet
Speaker 1: with my career coach. Hi, I'm Vicky so Emmy. I'm
Speaker 1: a career expert with Monster and a career coach and
Speaker 1: a former corporate recruiter. Nice meeting, Rebecca, We're going to
Speaker 1: just dig in because at the end of the session,
Speaker 1: I want you to feel empowered. I want you to
Speaker 1: feel like you have action items, and that you feel
Speaker 1: like there's a shift in um your perception in terms
Speaker 1: of what you wanted to talk to me about. That pitch.
Speaker 1: It didn't make me any less skeptical than I already was.
Speaker 1: She was throwing around a lot of jargon where it's
Speaker 1: like empowerment and action items. She was sounding a lot
Speaker 1: like a motivational medium post. Before we met, Vicky had
Speaker 1: me send her an email about what I'd hoped to
Speaker 1: get out of our session and why I wanted to
Speaker 1: see her. That was the first thing she asked me about.
Speaker 1: She wanted me to tell her again why I was
Speaker 1: there right now. Feel like I am a reporter and
Speaker 1: I write, and I do the show, and I like
Speaker 1: doing all those things, but it's actually really hard to
Speaker 1: do any of them very well. That was the problem
Speaker 1: I came in with, and she and I talked about
Speaker 1: that for a while. Actually mostly I talked while she
Speaker 1: typed everything I said into her laptop. I gave her
Speaker 1: an entire history of my working life, from my first
Speaker 1: job to how I got to Bloomberg. I told her
Speaker 1: I went from being a blogger to a reporter to
Speaker 1: hosting a podcast, and then I talked about my frustrations
Speaker 1: from small things that happened last week, like being annoyed
Speaker 1: a story went up later than I wanted. I just
Speaker 1: wrote a story that went up yesterday that was like
Speaker 1: kind of a big story for me, and I definitely
Speaker 1: could have gone up should have gone up last week
Speaker 1: for like the news cycle it'sbout Harvey went Stey and stuff.
Speaker 1: Part of me is like I should have been on
Speaker 1: this sooner, but it ended up being fun to bigger
Speaker 1: picture of things like how I want our show to
Speaker 1: be bigger and more successful. It's not as successful as
Speaker 1: we wanted to be, as I wanted to be. Every
Speaker 1: once in a while she would chime in with a question,
Speaker 1: so what do you like most about it about doing
Speaker 1: the podcast? Writing and reporting? What would you enjoy? Do
Speaker 1: you thrive on the adrenaline now or no? Because you're
Speaker 1: still methodical? Are you like that in your personal life too?
Speaker 1: Ors on the work? Were you the type of person
Speaker 1: in college I could like study the night before final
Speaker 1: and that's when you worked best? Do you get bored
Speaker 1: basically I was venting. It felt good, but venting isn't
Speaker 1: something I usually have to pay for. How is this helping? Then,
Speaker 1: after thirty minutes of talking, instead of asking me another question,
Speaker 1: she told me her way of seeing things. I think
Speaker 1: you're putting self in post pressure on yourself, but you
Speaker 1: don't need to, and it'll be really liberating for you
Speaker 1: just to like let it go. Um. But the question
Speaker 1: is like, how do we do that? And it's one session.
Speaker 1: When she said that, and I know that I'm going
Speaker 1: to start sounding like a cheesy self help blog post,
Speaker 1: it was an aha moment. My problem isn't that I
Speaker 1: wear too many hats or I'm stretched thin, or whatever
Speaker 1: other cliche. My problem is much deeper than that. Coaching
Speaker 1: is kind of like therapy. By talking about one problem,
Speaker 1: you can discover a deeper problem and then hopefully make progress.
Speaker 1: But then it was like, okay, how do we solve this?
Speaker 1: In forty five minutes, Vicky had some ideas. I think more,
Speaker 1: you can just liberate yourself from your own change. I
Speaker 1: don't want say change, but like your own expectations. Like
Speaker 1: it's great you have high expectations for yourself. That's incredible.
Speaker 1: But I think it'll be easier for you even as
Speaker 1: you progress in your career, to we'll look at your
Speaker 1: resume in a minute to go over your accomplishment and
Speaker 1: unlike a therapist, she did give me some as she'd
Speaker 1: call them, action items to reach my goals. She told
Speaker 1: me to find a mentor, to write down my accomplishments
Speaker 1: in a Google duc and to reframe the way I
Speaker 1: think about productivity. Let's define productivity for you, because productivity
Speaker 1: for you is probably a published story, but productivity can
Speaker 1: also be that downtime to just take a breath and
Speaker 1: be like, I don't have any stories today, Like we
Speaker 1: need to just I think reposition what that dead time
Speaker 1: is to you, and maybe it's no longer called dead time.
Speaker 1: After that, we went over my resume and that was it.
Speaker 1: I left feeling like we had to accomplish something. Vicky
Speaker 1: have given me at least four actual things I could
Speaker 1: do in my daily life, but a couple of them,
Speaker 1: like having a mantra, we're on the cheesy side, and
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure i'd actually do them. One session is
Speaker 1: probably enough for me. When it was my turn to
Speaker 1: meet with Vicky, I started out by giving her a
Speaker 1: rundown of my career background. Then I told her I
Speaker 1: had recently been promoted. I said that with every step
Speaker 1: up the ladder I took, I was doing more meetings
Speaker 1: and emails and planning and less actual making things. She
Speaker 1: asked how I felt about being a manager. Do you
Speaker 1: like managing overall? Do you like managing a team? Lighting
Speaker 1: the budgets? And you can be honest, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of things about it I don't like, like like the
Speaker 1: stuff you do. I mean the having to make decisions
Speaker 1: about things I don't really care about that much, things
Speaker 1: like contract details and planning out what to say in
Speaker 1: a meeting with an executive. And I talked about hating
Speaker 1: feeling like I'm constantly trying to solve a million little
Speaker 1: problems and not succeeding. That stuff makes me feel really overwhelmed, like,
Speaker 1: you know, just like my inbox and the fact that
Speaker 1: people are waiting on me for answers to things and
Speaker 1: I don't have them or I have forgotten about them,
Speaker 1: Like that stuff really weighs on me. She gave me
Speaker 1: her concise diagnosis. The further you go up, the more
Speaker 1: removed you're going to be from the creative aspects. Right,
Speaker 1: and that's the conundrum, right, because you love it and
Speaker 1: you could tell just you get excited when you're talking
Speaker 1: about it. She gave me some simple tips for managing
Speaker 1: my time, like putting time on the calendar just to
Speaker 1: work on the podcast and finding shortcuts for working on
Speaker 1: other things. All of it was meant to create time
Speaker 1: to focus more on the creative side of things. At
Speaker 1: this point, she made a casual mention of going out
Speaker 1: on my own and starting some kind of venture somewhere
Speaker 1: down the line. But there are other opportunities, I think
Speaker 1: within the podcast world where you can eventually, Let's say
Speaker 1: we have this conversation a few years from now and
Speaker 1: you're like, hey, biggy, I am producing and hosting my
Speaker 1: own podcast, and I can do from home and write,
Speaker 1: and I'm working three days a week. And guess what.
Speaker 1: Just crazy? Yeah, full time podcasting, three day work weeks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that sounds amazing. But this was going off the rails.
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to quit my job to become a
Speaker 1: part time podcaster who works from home for all kinds
Speaker 1: of reasons. So we were just indulging a fantasy. Then
Speaker 1: we got back to talking some more about concrete waste
Speaker 1: to clear space on my calendar, how I could go
Speaker 1: to fewer meetings, delegate more responsibilities, and even develop an
Speaker 1: f a Q sheet. If you're getting the same questions
Speaker 1: or smart questions it's like Francesco's faques and then just
Speaker 1: emailed to them, or if you have an Internet fight
Speaker 1: that you can put it there. Then we were about
Speaker 1: ready to get to the practical part. Vicky was looking
Speaker 1: at her laptop, preparing to discuss everything on my resume
Speaker 1: point by point, but she made the mistake of giving
Speaker 1: me one more chance to talk. So do you feel
Speaker 1: like you have a sense of an action plan? Well? Questions?
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you because you we only touched
Speaker 1: on it really briefly, but you you know, you mentioned
Speaker 1: this like going independent thing, which sounds like a total
Speaker 1: fantasy to me. And I wonder if, like with your
Speaker 1: other clients or people you've talked to who have who
Speaker 1: who aren't just like you know, single and free to do,
Speaker 1: free to take whatever career risks they want, Like how
Speaker 1: do people Because for me, I feel like I would
Speaker 1: always be in a holding pattern because I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I can't give up you know, health insurance for my
Speaker 1: family and my son I can't give up like, you know,
Speaker 1: a fairly you know, at least a comfortable salary, Like
Speaker 1: I can't give up these things. But I might want
Speaker 1: to go independent, but that might mean taking a pay
Speaker 1: cut working the way back up, and I feel like
Speaker 1: I end up in a sort of feedback loop. And
Speaker 1: I wonder how people get out of that, Like what
Speaker 1: do people do to like take the plunge or make
Speaker 1: the decision like that I can do this responsibly. I
Speaker 1: want to stop here first can. She gave me a
Speaker 1: bunch of perfectly serviceable tips about how to build a
Speaker 1: side hustle, what types of freelance work was available, and
Speaker 1: how to get it. But again we've gotten off track.
Speaker 1: This wasn't really what we should be talking about, or
Speaker 1: even really what I wanted. I wanted to stay in
Speaker 1: a secure job with health insurance, work in an office
Speaker 1: with other people, do more of the things I like
Speaker 1: and fewer of the things I didn't. But there was
Speaker 1: something so appealing about that fantasy of freelance life that
Speaker 1: I ended up talking to her about it for another
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. Finally, fifty minutes into an hour long session,
Speaker 1: we started talking about my resume and that last ten
Speaker 1: minutes turned out to be one of the most useful
Speaker 1: parts of the meeting, because she showed me how I
Speaker 1: was downplaying some big accomplishments like founding a section of
Speaker 1: Bloomberg's website and how to restate them even though I
Speaker 1: wasn't looking for a job. Updating my resume boosted my confidence. Ironically,
Speaker 1: it made me feel happier about where I am now.
Speaker 1: I just wish we'd spent more time on that and
Speaker 1: less time on my freelance pipe dreams. So now we've
Speaker 1: had a little time to let our sessions sink in. Uh,
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering what we think about career coaching and
Speaker 1: how helpful it is now. Becca, you were saying, um
Speaker 1: when you talked about your session, that you did find
Speaker 1: some of her tips helpful, and you came away from
Speaker 1: it kind of with a more positive feeling. What's your
Speaker 1: take now? So there were two specific things that I
Speaker 1: thought were very helpful. First of all, she at the
Speaker 1: end of the session went through my resume, and then
Speaker 1: after the session sent back some edits which I found
Speaker 1: really helpful. Like she told me to take out any
Speaker 1: word that was like help contribute to or like help edit.
Speaker 1: She was like, you can just say you edit, you
Speaker 1: contribute to you can explain that you're part of a
Speaker 1: team later. But on a resume, you don't have to
Speaker 1: kind of cut off your knees. That's cut off your feet. Um,
Speaker 1: you don't have to cut off anybod don't cut off
Speaker 1: anybody parts for your resume. Um. And then she also
Speaker 1: said to quantify things. So if I sat on my resume,
Speaker 1: I write for Bloomberg, she was like, how often, how
Speaker 1: many stories a week? How much time does it take
Speaker 1: you to edit the show? Things like that to show
Speaker 1: how much work is actually going in to the work
Speaker 1: you do. So I found that really helpful. Um. And
Speaker 1: the other thing that she said was that I need
Speaker 1: to be better at redefining productivity and my being better
Speaker 1: with downtime. Um. So one thing I have been doing
Speaker 1: is trying to at the end of yoga classes day
Speaker 1: for five extra breaths just to get more comfortable sitting,
Speaker 1: which is actually incredibly painful. Well, paint aside, it sounds
Speaker 1: like you actually took something away from it, But I
Speaker 1: guess the real test is would you recommend career coaching
Speaker 1: to other people? I think yes? What about you? What
Speaker 1: did you take away from the session and would you
Speaker 1: recommend it? So I'm with you. I really appreciated the
Speaker 1: part where we kind of got down to it and
Speaker 1: talked about my resume we could tweak. And what was
Speaker 1: helpful to me about that wasn't so much that I'm
Speaker 1: trying to shop around my resume. In fact, like I
Speaker 1: had to update my resume at the very last moment
Speaker 1: right before our session because I hadn't looked at it
Speaker 1: in so long. But I really liked what she said
Speaker 1: about just keeping a running list of your accomplishments, and
Speaker 1: the best place to keep them may as well be
Speaker 1: your resume, because not only are you going to forget
Speaker 1: some of these details later when you need to know them,
Speaker 1: but it helps you do your job better. I think,
Speaker 1: to be aware that you're you're in the place that
Speaker 1: you belong. You're in the place that you are because
Speaker 1: you belong there and you've earned it, and to kind
Speaker 1: of just have a little confidence boost whenever you needed.
Speaker 1: She said something about reading it over on a bad day,
Speaker 1: and I think that could be really helpful. As for
Speaker 1: whether I would recommend it, you know, I also wasted
Speaker 1: a lot of time in our session because I was
Speaker 1: kind of like highly asking questions about things that I
Speaker 1: thought were interesting, like what the freelance life is like,
Speaker 1: but that weren't necessarily going to change my career. So
Speaker 1: I think that for me, yes, i'd recommend it, But
Speaker 1: I think maybe it's not like therapy, like it is
Speaker 1: one of those things that if you're in a certain place,
Speaker 1: like you want to change jobs but you don't know
Speaker 1: exactly how to get a new job, or you want
Speaker 1: to change fields, or you think that you would be
Speaker 1: good at another career, but you have no idea what
Speaker 1: it is like. You have some big questions, some big
Speaker 1: crossroads that you're at. I think a career coach can
Speaker 1: be good for that for somebody who's just needs a
Speaker 1: little tweaking and the way that they're looking at their
Speaker 1: current job. Um, I don't know, maybe it's maybe it
Speaker 1: is best left just chatting with friends. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I guess I just like talking to people, even if
Speaker 1: I have to pay them. And now it's time for
Speaker 1: half big Takes, Happy fake takes. If you have a
Speaker 1: half big take that you'd like to share with us,
Speaker 1: please call into our hotline. It's two on two six
Speaker 1: month seven zero one six six Francesca, what's your half
Speaker 1: big take? I have yet another commuting half big take.
Speaker 1: So we've talked about commuting, We've done a whole episode
Speaker 1: abou commuting, We've talked about how bad it is, and
Speaker 1: we've talked about talking about commuting too. I feel like
Speaker 1: so people come in and they just start cavetching about
Speaker 1: how bad their commute was. Um, And this is like
Speaker 1: annoying for some people, and it's necessary venting for others.
Speaker 1: But this is what I think. When you had a
Speaker 1: heck of a commute this morning and it was just
Speaker 1: really something, and when you get to work after a
Speaker 1: terrible commute, you feel like you have just been through
Speaker 1: a war. And then you get to work and everyone's
Speaker 1: acting like everything is normal, and you just want the
Speaker 1: acknowledgement that you've just been through this nightmare. So I
Speaker 1: feel like every office should have some kind of confessional
Speaker 1: booth where if you need it, you can just walk
Speaker 1: into this place. Somebody's always there listening, and you can
Speaker 1: be like, first, I got kicked off of this one
Speaker 1: train because it went out of service, and then I
Speaker 1: had to walk five blocks in the rain to another station,
Speaker 1: and then that train was so crowded. I have to
Speaker 1: live three trains pass and blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: And you don't have to bother your coworkers for it,
Speaker 1: but you can just get it out and start your
Speaker 1: day and move on so that that experience is honored.
Speaker 1: I like the confession booth because nobody wants to hear
Speaker 1: about your Nobody wants to hear about it, but you
Speaker 1: need to talk about it. Yeah, it's good. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: an app like it was about the voice memo app
Speaker 1: on your phone. Always send it to us. I'm all
Speaker 1: about turning half bake takes into businesses. Becca, what's your
Speaker 1: half bag take? My hapic take is about wrinkles and
Speaker 1: um that basically I have a theory that if you
Speaker 1: wear a wrinkled shirt, the wrinkles will fall out over
Speaker 1: the day, and that's how I say it. But like,
Speaker 1: if you wear a wrinkled shirt by maybe noon, it
Speaker 1: will be nice and fresh. I hear if this is
Speaker 1: scientifically not true, but basically I don't want to iron
Speaker 1: I feel like this is something our parents told us
Speaker 1: because I definitely have a phrase like the wrinkles will
Speaker 1: fall out. Yeah, what does that fall out? Where they
Speaker 1: go in my head too, and I do think it's
Speaker 1: a lie we tell ourselves to allow to justify wearing
Speaker 1: wrinkled shirts because my shirt is kind of wrinkly, even
Speaker 1: though what's hanging in my closet? Where did the wrinkles
Speaker 1: come from? Uh So, if it was hanging there in
Speaker 1: my closet and the wrinkles didn't fall out, I don't
Speaker 1: think it's going to happen by lunchtime, but we'll give
Speaker 1: it a few more hours. Yeah, and I don't know
Speaker 1: my older age and nice really nice Crisps shirt really
Speaker 1: looks good, so I don't Yeah, this has been half
Speaker 1: big takes, half baked takes. Thanks for listening to game Plan.
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter. I'm at rs Greenfield
Speaker 1: and I'm at Francesca today. You can tweet your half
Speaker 1: baked takes at us or anything else you like. You
Speaker 1: can also call and leave a voicemail at two one
Speaker 1: to six one seven zero one six six. If you
Speaker 1: like the show, head on over to Apple Podcasts and
Speaker 1: rate and review and subscribe. I've noticed so many new
Speaker 1: ones recently, so you're all this linktime message, so thank
Speaker 1: you so much. The show was produced by Liz Smith.
Speaker 1: And Magnus Hendrickson, head of Podcasts, is me. We'll see
Speaker 1: you next week. By then, we were about ready to
Speaker 1: get to them. Meat and potatoes. What do you love that.
Speaker 1: I don't say that in real life, so I can't
Speaker 1: say that.