1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 4 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: name is Noel, and I am then you are you 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: that makes this stuff they don't want you to know? 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: So as we begin today's episode, we're going to look 8 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: back on some of the stuff we have done in 9 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: the past. We've talked about ghosts before a right, guys, Yes, 10 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: we've done several episodes on ghost We've talked about we 11 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: talked about hunting, we've talked about what haunting is, demon session, possession, exocisms. Yeah. 12 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: So in one of our previous episodes, we asked each 13 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: other and you listeners for any stories or personal experiences 14 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: with ghosts. If you have yet to write to us 15 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: with your story, please send it in. You never know 16 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: when it might be the next installment of our Creepy Theater. 17 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: We had an anonymous person right in after our Gin 18 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: episode and she he someone who told us a story 19 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: about how they believe they were experiencing some strange stuff 20 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: in their bedroom one day with a GIN. You have 21 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: some strange phenomenon. Uh. And we had an email one 22 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: store that was from an anonymous person that just said 23 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 1: something to the effect of demons are real, don't talk 24 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: about them. You shouldn't talk about them because that like 25 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: coaxed them out of their shadowy domain. That it seem 26 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: very serious. The belief that happens sometimes in Southern US 27 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: folklore that one can speak something up h and uh. 28 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: Don't don't be mistaken, ladies and gentlemen. There are parts 29 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: of the world where people still put blankets over mirrors 30 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: if a storm comes at night. Mirrors are creepy if 31 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: you think about it. Have you ever seen a kid 32 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: have that existent question when they look in a mirror 33 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: for the first time and say, oh, it's it's me. Yeah, 34 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: but yeah it's not me because everything's reversed, everything's tops 35 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: each other would say, have had that experience a few 36 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: times as an adult. M H. I'm not a fan 37 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: of mirrors. I'm not ever gonna be the biggest mirror fan. 38 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: You won't find me a mirror con good with rear 39 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: view mirrors, side mirrors. They helped me not crash, But 40 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: in general I wouldn't say I avoid them, but they 41 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: do kind of give me the creeps a little bit. 42 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: We got a little bit sidetracked. Although you may have, 43 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: you may have had something that feels like a supernatural 44 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: experience with a mirror. Um have have we talked on 45 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: air about this? Have any of us talked about ghost hunting? 46 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: I feel like we may have. In the past. We 47 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: did an episode on ghost hunting. I believe that was 48 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: pretty focused on it on when we did the ghosts episode, right, right, 49 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: and Uh, today we're looking at not ghosts, but at 50 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: the people who look for ghosts or other supernatural phenomenon. 51 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: We're going to focus a little bit more on a 52 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: specific group of people. And when you say supernatural phenomenon, 53 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: we mean not just spirits of the human dead or 54 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: the venerated ancestors or astral projections from some project Stargate survivor. Right. 55 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: We're also talking about incorporeal non human entities, angels, extra 56 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: dimensional sentient beings, and of course demons, none of which 57 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: have been proven to exist. Just gonna put that in 58 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: there at the beginning, at least from a scientific standpoint. 59 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: A lot of people believe in these things, but they 60 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: haven't been proven. When you say extra dimensional minds, UM 61 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: extra dimensional beings. It makes me also think of, you know, extraterrestrials. 62 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: Is that I mean perhaps I don't know who know, 63 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: like that cake song? Perhaps perhaps so as you can imagine, guys, 64 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: this is a bit of a controversial subject there. There 65 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: are a lot of deeply held beliefs out there. I 66 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: have them, you have them, um, you know. But the 67 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: concept of ghost hunting, that we're looking out here, that 68 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: we're looking at here, it's it's been celebrated for years. 69 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: Over the centuries, people have been trying to figure out 70 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: what these things are, if they do exist, where are they? 71 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:17,799 Speaker 1: And it's been dismissed largely by the modern Ivy Tower, 72 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: the academic mainstream, the scientific world. My pet name for 73 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: this episode is Strict's Favorite because our coworker Jonathan Strickland, 74 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: who collaborates with us frequently. Long time listeners, you probably 75 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: recognize him from some of our tech focused episodes. He 76 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: hates ghost hunting. He hates even bringing it up. It 77 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: irritates him. He doesn't like it when people speak it up. 78 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: Although I don't agree entirely with his perspective, he does 79 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: raise some valid points in these rants. First, as as 80 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: Matt said, there's no universally scientifically accepted or reproducible proof 81 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: of ghosts. What we mean by reproducible is that if there, 82 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: if there was some kind of proof of ghosts, and 83 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: that would mean that Noel could go into our haunted 84 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: studio and through uh correct ritual lighting candles, some form 85 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: of press diggitation perhaps yes, yes, just so through some 86 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: form be able to uh summon a ghost or divine 87 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: something or some interact with it with that, and that 88 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: would mean that you could go do the same thing, 89 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: which does lead one to believe that many of these 90 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: experiences are deeply personal and highly subjective. Yeah. Therefore, right, 91 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: if these entities exist, So if there's no proof, then 92 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: it means that we don't know what we're testing and 93 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: we don't have that objectivity, right because as as you said, no, 94 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: there's a personal, subjective thing, and if we don't know 95 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: what comprises these entities, then we don't know what we're 96 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: really testing for. We also have no universal, uniform set 97 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: of criteria for what constitutes ghost I mean there are 98 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: people that call themselves experts, as we're going to get 99 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: into in a little bit, that might say, oh, this, uh, 100 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: this range of electromagnetic interference, you know, means that there 101 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: was some sort of specter involved. But then somebody else 102 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: might say, no, no, no, I think it's more this range. 103 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: And since there's no actual proof, it's very hard to 104 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: figure out which range is the correct range and using 105 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: what tools, et cetera. Right, you'll often hear about temperature drops, 106 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: variations in electromagnetic fields and stuff like that, but there's 107 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: no question that these variations can have mundane causes. Now 108 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: that's not to say that there aren't some pretty convincing 109 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: stories out there about some of these paranormal experiences and encounters. 110 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 1: And we're actually going to talk about some of the 111 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,679 Speaker 1: most convincing, shall we say, um accounts of these from 112 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: two individuals who consider themselves experts in the field. Yeah, 113 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people consider these two the experts, the 114 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: people that are talked about by History Channel and Discovery 115 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: or whoever makes a documentary on TV they talk about 116 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: these people. Ed and Lorraine Warren dunt dun't done, actually, 117 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: nor can you do? This? Sound effect are way better 118 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: with these There we go, Noel Brown, Ladies and gentlemen, Yes, 119 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: the rumors are true. This is our episode on the 120 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: famous slash inflamous uh, demonologist medium duo self claimed ed 121 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: and Lorraine Warren. So ghost hunters or paranormal investigators what 122 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: are they? They explore specific locations reported to be hotbeds 123 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: of supernatural activity, and in the course of their work, 124 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: these groups or individuals will research the history of an 125 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: area as extensively as possible. Did anyone die here, what happened? 126 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: Why was the population of this mental asylum reported to 127 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: be one oh eight one month and then one o 128 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: three the next month, and with no record of departure? 129 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: Stuff like that, And then also conduct interviews with alleged 130 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: witnesses and or skeptics, people on either side of the fence, 131 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: while also employing electronics, digital thermometers, uh, some pretty high 132 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: tech camera gear as well. We've all seen we've all 133 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: seen this set up before in film and on television. 134 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: So the hard paranoral investigators and ghost hunters are fact finders. 135 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: That's what they're trying to do. They're getting as much 136 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: as information as they can, then going into a place 137 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: and then trying to find further information hopefully they're looking 138 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: for I mean, they are essentially tackling this in the 139 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: form of like a scientific question where they're trying to 140 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: come away with some sort of evidence that can be quantified, 141 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: you know, to show the proof of you know, these 142 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: events right and hopefully you know, hopefully that this is 143 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: a situation where someone is just looking for the truth, 144 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: not a pre confirmed belief. There are, of course, we 145 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: have to say this as as a president almost any endeavor. 146 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: There are, of course Charlatan's goons, confidence men and women 147 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: who are building the gullible and the credulous out of 148 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: money by saying things like this is tangentially related, but 149 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: saying things like I can talk to your dead mother 150 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: and I know you miss her, and she's in the 151 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: room and she misses you as well. She tells you 152 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: something something about your your you're moving, You're you're moving 153 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: like in not not just in time or space, but 154 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: also emotionally. I'm getting a since Sharon Sharon, yes, Sharon 155 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: Stone from the movie Basic Instinct. Oh, I think the 156 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: spirit is real, you guys, A passing around and saucy too. 157 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: That was a pretty pretty blue movie. Oh that's true, 158 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: that's true. You know. Funny piece of trivia. Apparently, Uh, 159 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: she only did that famous shot, that interview shot where 160 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: with the like only did it because the directors said, like, 161 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 1: we're not gonna don't worry, none of nothing indecent will 162 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: be in the shot because of the way we'll frame it. Yeah, 163 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: we're in a tight shot, don't worry. So she was 164 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: unfortunately swindled. Yep, and maybe and you know that's that's 165 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: similar somehow, speaking fantastic segways to ghost hunting as an 166 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: act of Charlatan's. But there are other kinds of ghost hunters, right, yeah, sure, 167 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: there are the skeptical ones that are going in to 168 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: try and dispel some of these beliefs of people, let's say, 169 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: who live in a house that they personally believe is haunted, 170 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: to come in and say, hey, look, the feeling that 171 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: you're getting is because of the electromagnetic radiation coming off 172 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: of this one device in your house. It's it's not 173 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 1: a big problem. That sound you're hearing is actually water 174 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: dropping in this pipe over here, and that's kind of 175 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: their purpose of going in in the first place. It's 176 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: only the wind, yeah, right, And of course we know 177 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: that not all skeptics are equal. There are some people 178 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: who are doing fantastic work and actually making the world 179 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: a more transparent easily understood place. And then there are 180 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: people who have like a weird emotional thing, like something 181 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: happened to them when they're a kid, and they want 182 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: an excuse to feel righteously indignant about it, which is 183 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: like you can support a good cause and not be 184 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 1: a jerk. So how long have people been hunting ghosts? Though? Well, 185 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: the search for ghosts, the search for paranormal activity, paranormal 186 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: experiences is totally inextricably bound up with this quest, this 187 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: idea that we need proof of the afterlife, which is 188 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: a powerful impulse, I mean, you know, and then it 189 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 1: goes across religions and social you know, status is I mean, 190 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: it is something that a lot of human beings are 191 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: universally fascinated with and you know, engaged in a search 192 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: for answers about. And so from this perspective we can 193 00:11:54,920 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 1: say that ghost hunting is likely as old as religion itself, 194 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: as the idea of having faith in something that you 195 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 1: can't see that somehow guides your path. You know, that's 196 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: a good point out, And so the roots of what 197 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: would ultimately become what we know as modern ghost hunting. 198 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: Um you can see these in the works of a 199 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: guy named Emmanuel Swedenborg, who's best known for a book 200 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: called Heaven and Hell, a treatise on the afterlife, which 201 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: was published in seventeen fifty eight. And then there's Friends Mesmer, 202 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: a another proponent of ghost hunting parapsychological investigation into psychic phenomenon. 203 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: Mesmer You might say that name sounds familiar. He is 204 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: the founder of Mesmerism, which is of course the the 205 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: the demo reel for what would later be called hypnosis. 206 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: And then you've got lots of other professionals who kind 207 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: of come out from the word works here. Who will 208 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: put on shows, who will you know, uh, conjurer talk 209 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 1: to a ghost for money and you know, get paid 210 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: and kind of kind of be like a parlor show 211 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: or something like that. And then there's a history of 212 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: that that goes forward until we get to the point 213 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: where there are these amateur groups of people who get 214 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: together and want to do the same thing that these 215 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: people are doing because they believe it to be true, 216 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: not not because they want to do a stage show. Right, So, 217 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: organized amateur ghost hunting dates back to these clubs that 218 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: arose during the spiritualist era, the time of the Theosophy school. 219 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: But these these clubs that sprang up very Victorian in nature, 220 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: places like the London Ghost Club or the Society for 221 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: Psychic Research. Critics have lobbed numerous allegations against these folks 222 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: and said their modern descendants not really scientific in nature, 223 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: that they're calling them instead like pseudo mystics. And they 224 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: called these the modern versions of this techno mystics, which 225 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 1: is pretty cool. I like that a lot. That's a 226 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: band name if I've ever heard one. And in con trast, 227 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: academic parapsychological institutions or groups are trying to maintain a 228 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: solid methodology and application of the scientific method, and they've 229 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: made some progress in this kind of field, and that's 230 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: where we found out about stuff like infrasounds. So we 231 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: also know that, um, we also know that there's been 232 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: this strange love hate relationship between allegations of psychic phenomenon 233 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: and application of science. Right even in eighteen fifty three, 234 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: a guy named Robert Hare, who was a chemist by trade, 235 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: said he was experimenting with mediums and reported positive results. 236 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: But we've also seen people who say, you know, I've 237 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: investigated this and I found a mondane cause, and you 238 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: know it's sad that we didn't find a ghost this time, 239 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: but it's good that we know what happens. So which 240 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: camp do? Ed and Lorraine Warren fall to let's let's 241 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: meet these folks. Who are they actually? So? Before Ed 242 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: passed away in August of two thousand and six, he 243 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: and his wife Lorraine were a husband and wife duo 244 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: team of paranormal investigators. Ed Warren was born in ninety six. 245 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: He was a retired police officer and a Navy veteran 246 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: and a self taught Demonologist's how he described himself. Lorraine 247 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: was born in n seven, one year apart, and she 248 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: claimed to have clairvoyant powers and could function as a medium. 249 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: And she said, demonology is just what it sounds like, 250 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: a systematic study of demons or beliefs. So it doesn't 251 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: it's a branch of three theology. But it doesn't necessarily mean, Um, 252 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: you can be a demonologist in a purely academic way. 253 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: You don't have to believe in demons to be one. Now, 254 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: this couple, you have probably heard of several of the 255 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: cases that they've looked at that they've garnered national attention. 256 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: There's been things written about some of these cases in 257 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: mainstream media. And on ABC News. I mean, main major 258 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: places have talked about the cases that this couple is covered, 259 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: especially through the seventies and eighties into the nineties. They 260 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: founded New England's oldest paranormal research center in nineteen fifty two. 261 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: It is the New England Society for Psychic Research. And hey, 262 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: do you like museums. They've got an awesome museum. Noll, 263 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: I do like museums. Actually, I'm quite fond of them. 264 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: You should check it out for listeners who might want 265 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: to take a look. You can actually visit the Warren's 266 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: Occult Museum in Monroe, Connecticut, and you can find out 267 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: more about that at Warren's dot net. That's w A 268 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: R R E N S dot net four A D two, 269 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: Monroe Turnpike, zip code zero six four six eight. For 270 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: those of you interested in a road trip, we assume 271 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: if you live in the area, you probably already heard 272 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: about this. I think, look, I'm gonna say it. I 273 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: think we have to go there. Guys. It's it's our 274 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: duty to go to shoot some stuff. They're filled at us, right. 275 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: But before we go there, it's time for a word 276 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy. We've teased 277 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: a bit about these cases that garner national attention, but 278 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 1: we haven't talked too much about them. Some of these 279 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: captured the public's attention as as you said, Matt, and 280 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: they've become films and pieces of modern American folklore. We 281 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: could just name some films that have been based on 282 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: these cases right now if you want. Sure. The Amityville 283 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: Horror was the biggest one that I remember, at least 284 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: the Amityville Horror two was probably is it Aville Horror? 285 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: Three G Right, So this entire Amityville film series also 286 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: spawned a series of novels. Right, Oh, excuse me, it's 287 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 1: Amityville to the Possession, and yes, there definitely is Amityville 288 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: three D. Yeah, you guys gotta check out the cover. 289 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: It's an alien claw reaching out of a like a 290 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 1: window in this house. And it's like this faux three 291 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: D poster warning in this movie you are the victim 292 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: Amityville three D. That's the claw. It's coming. It's kind 293 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 1: of face off. It's good. Check it out. What a 294 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: great time to be alive. I wish I could have 295 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: gone to a theater with a three D film like that, 296 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: uh man, I wish I wasn't born in eighty three. 297 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: What a time to be alive. So the most recent 298 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: one is Amityville The Awakening, which is due to come 299 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: out in January of next year. And then there's also 300 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: the Conjuring, right, the Conjuring two. I think that's coming. Yes, yeah, 301 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: the Conjuring two is on the way. The Conjuring two 302 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: is based on the Enfield Poltergeist. All right, so let's 303 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: talk about what Amityville actually was. What do what do 304 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: we what do we mean when we say Amityville. What 305 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: we're referencing directly is a town in the Long Island, 306 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: New York in a house. So in this house one 307 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: twelve Ocean Avenue in Long Island, in Amityville, fellow named 308 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: Ronald Dafao Jr. Shot and killed six members of his family. 309 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: He was convicted of second degree murder in nineteen and 310 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: in December of that same year, another family moved in, 311 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: George and Cathy Lutts and their three children. They lived 312 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 1: there for about a month and then they left and 313 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: they said that they were terrorized by paranormal phenomenon. So, 314 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: according to this is where the Wartons come in. According 315 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 1: to the Warrens, some events happened according to the Lutz family. 316 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: Some other events happened according to to Fail, who is 317 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 1: alive and in jail. As we record this, another separate 318 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: events happen. So the stories begin to diverge, and that's 319 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: something we find often in these paranormal cases. If you 320 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: want to read the Warran's account, you can visit their 321 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: website Warren's dot Net. They have a special section for Amityville. 322 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: So the Lutz family described the following things right. According 323 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 1: to the Warrens, Uh, things start to go wrong from 324 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: the jump. A Catholic priest comes while the family's unpacking 325 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: to bless the home. He gets to the second floor 326 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: and he hears a voice screaming get out when he 327 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: is sprinkling holy water around the place. He didn't tell 328 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: them about the voice though, that's the thing. Apparently he 329 00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: didn't say anything. It's just an everyday life, uh life experience. 330 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: You don't have weird bimming voices coming to you at 331 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: irregular time. They're usually you. I'm usually responding to the 332 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: one that I'm hearing. Yeah, I'm sorry, oh oh okay. 333 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: When the we're all good, I think we should we 334 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 1: could all work on the better listeners. I certainly could. Huh. 335 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: So this priest that didn't say anything, but he did 336 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: apparently warn them, do not use the upstairs room as 337 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: a bedroom. Don't let anyone sleep in there. And as 338 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: we know in horror movies and ever someone's running away 339 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 1: from a demon or monster, they always run upstairs, right right, 340 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: don't try to make it to the camera, just hide 341 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: in the closet. So so, just really quickly put it 342 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: into context. This is when this family moved in. It 343 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: was only thirteen thirteen months, or it was just a 344 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: little bit of time after six people had been shot 345 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: and killed in this same house. And whether or not, 346 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: whether or not it actually you know, causes some kind 347 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: of haunting to occur, an awful act like that that 348 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: does some things psychologically, I think to a human being 349 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: with having that knowledge, just walking around a place where 350 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: six people died extremely recently, I don't know. I'm I'm 351 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: as I'm looking, as I'm hearing all of this stuff, 352 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: and we're going over the story. I'm keeping that as 353 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: a lens like, no matter what I believe is happening there, 354 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: there is certainly psychological there. There are certainly psychological effects 355 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: playing on this family's mind. Right, Yeah, I see what 356 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: you're saying. And then there's the argument to that perhaps 357 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: certain traumatic events can leave some sort of immaterial but 358 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: real residue. Right. So George was plagued by a constant 359 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 1: chill and he just hung around the fireplace. Uh. He 360 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: also got a little bit uh messier over time is 361 00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: hygiene really started to fail him and Kathy's elf, along 362 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: with his, was in decline. Their daughters started spending all 363 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,959 Speaker 1: their time in her room playing with an imaginary friend 364 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: who was a red eyed pig called Jody and could 365 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: transform and and could only be seen by people that 366 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: she wanted to see her. That's according to Jody. Mysterious odors, 367 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: black stains on toilets and ceramic fixtures. A k A. 368 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna make the call on that one. A 369 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: k A. Mold. Yeah, I was about to say, right, 370 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: that's not necessarily just a little scrubbing who yeah, scrubbing bubbles. 371 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: So uh. Flies. The one thing you might remember from 372 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: some of the films is that a bunch of flies 373 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: appeared out of out of the middle of nowhere. Sounds 374 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,959 Speaker 1: like they just needed a housekeeper, like they needed you know. Yeah, 375 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 1: flies are their roaches where they're terrifying roaches. Apparently there 376 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: was a George maintains that his wife turned into a 377 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: ninety year old hag and began levitating off the bed 378 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: one night. But again, these stories, this, this is coming 379 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: from the warrants, and these stories are mutable and have 380 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: changed over time. Anyway, there was the account of the 381 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: spooky crumbs, you know in the kitchenett. You know, No, 382 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: I get the feeling that you're not buying this, no, 383 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: And I'm just trying to, you know, narrow down the 384 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: source here. I mean, it sounds like a lot of 385 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: this was definitely you know, housekeeping based. I'm just right right. Uh. 386 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: So they couldn't get the priests to come back because 387 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: every time they tried to call them, the phones we 388 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: cut out, according to them. So they walked around themselves 389 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: trying to I guess, purify it by reciting prayers, and 390 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: then they said a course of voices erupted telling them 391 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: to stop. At the last night, there's all this banging, 392 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: uh in the house as the marching bands are going there, 393 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: furniture is moving on its own, so they leave, which, 394 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: you know, I understand if you are in a situation 395 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: and feel that way. I think we've all seen enough 396 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: horror movies where we're not going to do that thing 397 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: when we say, oh no, let's stay or where's that 398 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:16,880 Speaker 1: strange noise coming from running to odd the noise? Well, yeah, 399 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: you gotta investigate you you split up too, you gotta 400 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: split up. You guys, stay here or have with this. 401 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: You go to the basement and I'll go upstairs, and 402 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: then we'll we'll meet in the middle and we'll discuss 403 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: what we've learned. I'm you know what, I'm gonna take 404 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 1: this flashlight. The batteries are dying, but I'll be right back. 405 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: I'll just give it a shake and it will make 406 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: for some kind of like Stroby flashes, give it a 407 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: ghost a chance to appear. So this is I mean, 408 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: this is this is perfect because we know these horror 409 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: movie rules which show up in the Amityville horror series 410 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: but not in the real life Amityville. You know, on 411 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: their one twelve ocean. So twenty days after the Lutz 412 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: is eive the place, Ed and Lorraine Warren are called 413 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: by a news reporter with Channel five in New York, 414 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: a guy named Marvin Scott. He had covered the story 415 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: before he worked with the Warrens on a on a 416 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: previous investigation. So the Warrens reporters, some parapsychologists get together 417 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: at the house. The Lutz family refuses to go back 418 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: in the home. And here's their accounts. So remember we 419 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: said Ed is a self taught demonologist. Lorraine claims to 420 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: be clairvoyant and work as a medium in their team. 421 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: So Ed was, according to the Warrens, physically pushed to 422 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: the floor while using a religious provocation in the basement. 423 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: Lorraine was overwhelmed by the sense of a demonic presence 424 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: and was plagued by our psychic impressions of the Dafao 425 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: families being laid on the floor covered in white sheets, 426 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: with a sense of being physically pushed back. So to 427 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: our earlier point, these are personal impressions being described right, 428 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: These are not, at least on the warrants parts. These 429 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: are not objective measurements. Now if they had sit parapsychologists 430 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 1: measuring stuff, uh, did they see temperature drops? Things like that? 431 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: The most important thing to note about the warrants here 432 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 1: is that they are true believers, their devout Catholics. They 433 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: are not going in skeptically. They're you know, religion would 434 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: be one of the tools that they used to try 435 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 1: to subdue or remove or erase some sort of presence. 436 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: So they also say the land was in the past 437 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: used by a fellow named John Ketchum in the course 438 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: of their historical research, uh, black magician who had a 439 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: cottage on the land prior to the construction of the 440 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: house in twenty four and that he requests it to 441 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: be buried on the property and his remains are there 442 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: to this day. That's not uncommon. I mean, you know, 443 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: a lot of times people who had a state would 444 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: have arranged for them to be buried in the backyard 445 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: and with like a private cemetery, maybe next to some 446 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: mother family members that died right exactly, especially you know, 447 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: as you said, in a place that has a lot 448 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: of land. Right. So the problems that we run into 449 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: here are that the stories again are mutable, are changeable. Uh. 450 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: And we have Ronald de Fao Jr. Who killed his father, 451 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: his mother, to his two brothers and his two sisters. 452 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: He claimed that they were planning to kill him, that 453 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: his parents were and in the course of his in 454 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: the course of the investigation his conviction as appeals, things 455 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: like that his lawyer launched. Uh. The insanity defense right 456 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: got a psychiatrist to back it up. They said that 457 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: the FAO was abusing heroin LSD, he had antisocial personality disorder. Uh. 458 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: But with all that, the psychiatrists for the prosecution Dr 459 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: Harold Zolan said, well, he knew what he was doing. 460 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: Here's the weird part. Though. All six of the victims 461 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: were found laying on their stomachs, no signs of a struggle, 462 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: and the rifle had not been fitted with a sound suppressor, 463 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: so they heard each person whoever was last heard five shots. Uh. 464 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: There were no sedatives, it seemed, so someone should have 465 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: been awakened by the scale of it. And the medical 466 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: investigators were like, how did this happen so fast? You know? 467 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: And he also claimed, let's he claimed that his parents 468 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: are going to kill him. Then he claimed that he 469 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: killed his father for life insurance. He also tried to 470 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: say that he had personal things like marriages that later 471 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: turned out not to be true, and over the years 472 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: he has changed his story frequents frequently, so frequently, in fact, 473 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: that it's hard to know what actually happened other than 474 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: that he killed the people. As for the allegations of 475 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: supernatural phenomenon. What we are seen and said is that 476 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: there's a history of drug abuse, and drugs as we know, 477 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: can either some will say, bring you to a greater 478 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: new reality or just blur the line between the exterior 479 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: and the interior of your mind. At this point, Amityville 480 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: is not considered proof positive but of anything other than 481 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: an excellent ghost story and the mutability of memory. There 482 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: are a couple of interesting physical takeaways I know. One 483 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: of them was a photo that the Warrens allegedly got 484 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: of a little boy I think, or at least a 485 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: spirit that they say was manifested as a little boy, 486 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: and it's on their website. You can see it. It 487 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: looks like a photo of a little boy. I mean, 488 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: I don't know how much of a spirit it is, 489 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: but allegedly there wasn't any There weren't any kids in 490 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: the house at the time when they shot it. I 491 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: don't know if this is the originating point of the 492 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: idea of an Native American use of land that then 493 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: affects the modern construction, but they did believe that and 494 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: a tribe of Indians used that land for I think 495 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: for sick or not insane. They wouldn't have used the 496 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: word insane with Native Americans, but they used it. They 497 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: used that land to house people who are sick, and 498 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: the Warrens believed that this may have led to negative 499 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: energy being in that house. I don't know. I just 500 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: think it's it's it's important to see it from their perspective, 501 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: as they are probably true believers. I want to say, 502 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: at least in these kinds of things right, And you know, 503 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: well there's there are other things too. So de Feo 504 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: told Prime Time that he initially said I heard voices, 505 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: those void, those booming voices commanded me to kill And 506 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: later he went on Prime Time and said that he 507 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: was making that up to get a better insanity please 508 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: je Uh. The one of the lawyers who was involved 509 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: said he was the favous attorney, William webber Uh. He 510 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: was looking for book proposals from his client's story and 511 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: he met with George and Cathy Lutts, and he says 512 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: that he thinks they were essentially just making up stuff 513 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: and that they were making a commercial venture out of it. 514 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: The whole thing well, he said that when he talked 515 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: to them, they end he said, they end up hanging 516 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: out and drinking and brainstorming about what could go into 517 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: a horror book. Well, I mean, at least I guess 518 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: they're making lemonade right style. Perhaps you're right, Perhaps you're right. Uh. 519 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: And then they split, and that's why they're two varying accounts. 520 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: The big one is Amityville Horror, a true story. Uh, 521 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: and it went through thirteen printings and seventy six. But 522 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: here's here's the thing. And when they talk, the medium 523 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: talks about was hands hands. Holtzer goes with a medium 524 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: who claims to talk to the dead and seventy seven 525 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: the medium says, uh, there's an Indian chief, Native American 526 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: chief on the war path in the house because it 527 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: has been built on the site of that sacred burial 528 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: ground you mentioned, matt Um. And then members of the 529 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: mont talk At tribe of Long Island are skeptical because 530 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: they say there are no records of a burial ground 531 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: and Emityville h And even if there were, said the 532 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: tribes chief straight Arrow Cooper, that doesn't mean we will 533 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: go into somebody's body and capture their soul and control 534 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: in a very negative way. That's not us. One last 535 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: detail on Emityville. No one who has lived in the 536 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: house on Ocean Avenue since the lutz Is has reported 537 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: any unusual activity, which is, you know, which is a 538 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: a fairly powerful thing, oddly enough for both sides of 539 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: the argument. Right where there never any ghost, did the 540 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: Warrens and company exorcize or cleans clean the house? What's 541 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 1: the thing where you burn sage? What's they call it? Smudging? Smudging? Yeah, okay, 542 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: can you tell us a little bit about smudging. I mean, 543 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: it's just, you know, basically, it's meant to be a 544 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: cleansing ritual um where you burn this sage and just 545 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: walk around your house and supposed to it cleanses your 546 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: environment of any bad odors. Rights. Now, it actually smells 547 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: pretty bad, opinion, It does push out some of the negativity. 548 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: And if you let's go to another case. If you 549 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: travel to their museum, you will see a very special 550 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: raggedy and doll named Annabelle. This doll is, according to 551 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 1: the Warrens, haunted, and you can see it in various 552 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: documentaries about the Warrens. Yes, not the the Annabelle doll 553 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,879 Speaker 1: that's featured in the major motion picture looks nothing like 554 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: what this Annabelle doll actually looks like. Um, the one 555 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: of the major pusher motion picture has more of the 556 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: human characteristics. It almost looks porcelain, more of an uncanny 557 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: valley thing. Yeah, the the actual Annabelle doll. It's got 558 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: red hair, it's knitted, it looks like um triangle nose 559 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: val very much not human, a caricature of what a 560 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: doll looks like. And but it is huge, at least 561 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: comparatively to a lot of other dolls that I've seen. 562 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: So a student nurse was given this raggedy and all 563 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy, but it behaved strangely, and so psychic 564 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: told the told the nurse that the doll was inhabited 565 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,760 Speaker 1: by the spirit of a dead girl named Annabelle Higgins, 566 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 1: thus the name Annabelle. They tried to accept and nurture 567 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: the spirit possessed all, according to the warrants, but it's 568 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,760 Speaker 1: all behaved maliciously, So they contacted the warrants, who removed 569 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: the doll to their museum after determining through their investigation 570 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,240 Speaker 1: that it was demonically possessed. So it started off really 571 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: slow and and not really much happening. The doll would 572 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: appear on the bed when I guess they believed they 573 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,439 Speaker 1: had left it on the couch, or they had left 574 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 1: it on the couch, it would be standing up at 575 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: the kitchen table, which you know could be odd if 576 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: you come home from work or school or whatever and 577 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 1: you find this doll standing there. Um. At one point, 578 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: I think the doll had blood or at least what 579 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: looks like blood on its hands and on its chest. Um, 580 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,919 Speaker 1: it got a little funky, right, this is uh, this 581 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: is again according to him. What critics. I guess we'll 582 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: get to the critics later. We'll just give their their 583 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 1: version of the events. Yeah, so apparently moved on its own. 584 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: It was creepy. There was blood involved. They would do 585 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: the things you see with the with the trope of 586 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: a haunted or possessed doll in horror films. Right, you 587 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 1: leave it there, you walk back in, and all of 588 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: a sudden it's in. It's sitting in the chair, right, 589 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: or you throw it away, You throw it. Noel Brown 590 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: throws it out the cars he's driving across Connecticut, and 591 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: then when he gets back home to Atlanta, he opens 592 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: the door and who's sitting there? Yeah, No, I think 593 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:50,320 Speaker 1: it's on the stoop. Just uh, there's this guy lou 594 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: at least according to their stories. Who's a friend like 595 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: an acquaintance, I guess. And he apparently disliked this doll 596 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: from the start. He he thought the was evil. Maybe 597 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: he just didn't like dolls, who's to say, but he 598 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: he believed that he had a well I'm gonna I'm 599 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: gonna tell you that the side of the story, and 600 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,399 Speaker 1: just see if you listeners out there, see if this 601 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 1: triggers anything from one of our past episodes. As he 602 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: was falling asleep, he said he felt paralyzed and he 603 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: couldn't move at all, and then he saw the doll 604 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: down at the base of the bed, and it started 605 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: to move up his body and it tried to choke him, 606 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 1: and he was he felt like he was strangling and 607 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,359 Speaker 1: then he woke up or he you know, he says 608 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 1: he lost consciousness and then he woke up and the 609 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 1: doll wasn't there. That sounds exactly like the accounts of 610 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,280 Speaker 1: people give of their sleep paralysis and shadow people coming 611 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: to them in the night. Yeah, and if he already 612 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 1: has this dislike of this doll, maybe it is his 613 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: nightmare that's manifesting. Absolutely even in the shadow people's stories, 614 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: I mean, the form of the creature or entity or 615 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 1: did change from one or the other. I mean, it's dark, 616 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: so it's gonna feel shadowy. But I mean, yeah, there 617 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: were definitely accounts of different shaped things and you know, 618 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: creatures or whatever. That's fast, And I don't mean to 619 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: discount his story. It just sounds so similar that I 620 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: think you had to mention it. Right. And then we 621 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 1: notice again that in these accounts there are Here's the thing. 622 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: In these accounts, a lot of the evidence or experience 623 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:31,280 Speaker 1: is described as a personal sensation. I felt physically pushed back. 624 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: I felt like something was climbing on me. I felt 625 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: a presence. Uh did you know? I felt the temperature drop. 626 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,280 Speaker 1: But there was not a thermometer around. So the vast 627 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: majority of the Warren's physical evidence is found in photographs. Right, 628 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,280 Speaker 1: they have all these ghost shots taken by them. People 629 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: work for them. Uh. They there's a restaurant called the 630 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,839 Speaker 1: Carousel Restaurant that has a collection of some of the 631 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 1: photographs because the Warrens were regulars there. According to skeptics, 632 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: most of these are just blobs of light on film, 633 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:09,919 Speaker 1: and that there dozen ways this could happen accidentally or purposefully. 634 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: The and then they also have video evidence, right. The 635 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 1: biggest one is a video of someone called the White 636 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:23,479 Speaker 1: Lady of Union Cemetery in eastern Connecticut. Uh. It's only 637 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,840 Speaker 1: viewable at the Warren's home, at least it was. And 638 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: apparently they said they couldn't give various objects to skeptics 639 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: for analysis, and skeptics would say that that means that 640 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: it's not legit. But then also again, depending on what 641 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: kind of people these skeptics are, maybe they would just 642 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:52,240 Speaker 1: destroy it, right, you know. Uh. They they did, however, 643 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,840 Speaker 1: give one team of skeptics a piece of video evidence 644 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 1: that showed someone de materializing, taken by a mount of 645 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 1: camera in a dining room in the middle of nine. Uh. 646 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: On the tape, a young man walks in room, scratches 647 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: his head, and poof disappears and then it's followed by 648 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,800 Speaker 1: a ghost light. They took this and analyzed it and 649 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 1: took it to a place called the HB Group. And 650 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,719 Speaker 1: here's a quote from them. We're witnessing a wipe in 651 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,280 Speaker 1: this segment of videotape. Although there are several different ways 652 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 1: in video editing to achieve a wiping effect, the most 653 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: simple ways has been employed here. Deliberately or accidentally, the 654 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: camcorder stopped recording on the final frame of the person 655 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 1: in the room and resumed recording just a few seconds 656 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: after the person moved outside of the view of the camera. 657 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: On a related observation, the properties of light alone could 658 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 1: dictate a hundred different explanations for the mysterious thought of 659 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: light that appears seconds after the man vanishes. However, I 660 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,320 Speaker 1: believe this was caused by a reflection through the dining 661 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,239 Speaker 1: room window of the headlights of a passing car. The 662 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 1: headlights can be seen if you watch the right hand 663 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,399 Speaker 1: side of the screen, just before the dot of light 664 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,439 Speaker 1: fades out. That's the kind of stuff I love. Analyzing 665 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: a piece of video or photograph like that. I mean, 666 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of stinks because in a way, you're just 667 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:09,720 Speaker 1: throwing water on somebody's fire. But I don't know. Sometimes 668 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 1: that water is necessary. Sometimes that water is the cleansing 669 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: waters of life of Lake minnetonkave it right. And there's 670 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:22,359 Speaker 1: another thing here. Uh, We've got countless cases we talk 671 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 1: We can talk about the uh the trial of our 672 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,360 Speaker 1: n H I. N. Johnson a k A. The Devil 673 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,759 Speaker 1: Made Me Do It case, first known court case in 674 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 1: the US in which the defense sought to prove innocent 675 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 1: innocence based on the demonic possession. Yes they're crazy uh 676 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:45,320 Speaker 1: and denying a denying personal responsibility for the crime. Uh. 677 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 1: Johnson was convicted. He only served five years have attended 678 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:54,279 Speaker 1: twenty years sentence for the first green manslaughter of his landlord, 679 00:42:54,360 --> 00:43:02,280 Speaker 1: Alan Bono. According to the testimony from the glass All family, 680 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: they're eleven year old David glass All had played host 681 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: to the demon that forced Johnson to kill the landlord 682 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 1: who so they after watching their son behaving strangely, the 683 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: family got ed and Lorraine Warren involved in an effort 684 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: to cure David, and they had him exercised by a 685 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:28,279 Speaker 1: number of Catholic priests continue for days. According to the people, 686 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 1: when they finally drove the presence out, it fled the 687 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: child's body and took residence within Johnson and that is 688 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: why the landlord was killed. As you might imagine, this 689 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: did not hold up in court. Of course, he was convicted. 690 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:49,799 Speaker 1: You can see Discovery Channels a haunting that has an 691 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 1: episode where demonsdwell takes a look at this. Of course 692 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 1: this is you know, this was a huge story when 693 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 1: it hit the media for a moment. Let's just imagine 694 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 1: and that your family, one of you guys, you listening, 695 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,680 Speaker 1: your family or your roommates, uh, some you believe the 696 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 1: group of you truly believe that there's a possession going on, right, 697 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 1: and you're seeing weird things, and you're experiencing these weird 698 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,719 Speaker 1: things that only you and your close friends are the 699 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,600 Speaker 1: people who are being affected are seeing. And then imagine 700 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:24,600 Speaker 1: trying to explain that to somebody else and not at 701 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:29,759 Speaker 1: least feel like you're insane. Right, Yeah, that's I mean, 702 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 1: that's a good point. It is a personal thing. Then 703 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,200 Speaker 1: let's there's another case here, the infilled poulter Geist as well, 704 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,040 Speaker 1: where in there were there were claims that there was 705 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,920 Speaker 1: a poulter geist in a council house in Brinds down 706 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:49,320 Speaker 1: in Field, England from seventy seven to seventy nine, involving 707 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 1: two sisters. Get this guy's ages eleven and thirteen. And 708 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: that's important because as we know from our previous look 709 00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:01,120 Speaker 1: at Poultergeist, the most frequent reports of altergeist come from 710 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:09,319 Speaker 1: early adolescents, early adolescent kids, girls growing up. So and 711 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,880 Speaker 1: I got a lot of coverage in the British newspapers 712 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 1: and like the Amityville thing, it's been um, it's been touted, 713 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:22,080 Speaker 1: or the inspiration for horror stories. Ed Warren claimed that 714 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,280 Speaker 1: one of the kids was sound asleep levitating in midair, 715 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: and he concluded they were the subject of demonic possession. 716 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,680 Speaker 1: To sum up what the critics would say, let's look 717 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,879 Speaker 1: at science writer Sharon A. Hill, who said that many 718 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: of the myths and legends surrounding the Warrants have, according 719 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: to her, been seemingly of their own doing, and that 720 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,719 Speaker 1: people have difficulties separating the Warrants from their Hollywood portrayal. 721 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: She also says that there's a lot of sensationalist hype 722 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 1: that is not very incredulous, right, uh, And they said, 723 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,160 Speaker 1: and Hill also said that we have nothing but uh, 724 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 1: the Warren's word for this, or the his for the 725 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:08,360 Speaker 1: objects in the occult Museum. So they are not without 726 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,960 Speaker 1: their critics. And the best way to sum it up 727 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:16,400 Speaker 1: is that, you know, a demonologist finds demonic possession in 728 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: a lot of cases. Is that because they recognize the 729 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,920 Speaker 1: signs of this? Or is that because when you are 730 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 1: a hammer, every problem looks like a nail, you know 731 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,200 Speaker 1: what I mean? I can see that argument easily and 732 00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,719 Speaker 1: of course, we should also point out that there are 733 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,640 Speaker 1: there are people who believe in the wards, believe these 734 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: stories at least one of them, if not all of them, 735 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:41,320 Speaker 1: and it's clear that in several of these cases, horrific 736 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,719 Speaker 1: and tragic things happen. We are talking about murders, right, 737 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,360 Speaker 1: and whatever the motivation for murder is, it remains a murder, nonetheless, 738 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,520 Speaker 1: whether or not the devil made you do it. And 739 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,840 Speaker 1: also we're getting into the nature of belief. That's what 740 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,480 Speaker 1: we're ending on today. It's also coming full circle because 741 00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: we started with this idea that goes hunting is as 742 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,960 Speaker 1: old as perhaps one could argue belief itself. Religion is 743 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,200 Speaker 1: sort of organized belief, I suppose. So, I mean it 744 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,800 Speaker 1: really is, you know, this idea of the afterlife. People 745 00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,080 Speaker 1: want to believe these things. They want to um have 746 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,879 Speaker 1: evidence presented to them that is proof positive that there 747 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,040 Speaker 1: is an afterlife, you know, even if it's there's sinister 748 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,439 Speaker 1: forces at work. I mean, I really do think that 749 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: it would be um easy for certain people to believe 750 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 1: some of these accounts from the Warrens because it's sort 751 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,600 Speaker 1: of you know, holds up their own beliefs and it 752 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,040 Speaker 1: allows them to feel, you know, safe in those beliefs, 753 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,799 Speaker 1: and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's you know, 754 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,680 Speaker 1: it's a it's a tricky thing belief. Can I tell 755 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: you something that I believe as a videographer, I went 756 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,920 Speaker 1: through and I was watching some of the some of 757 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,279 Speaker 1: the footage that the Warrens take or did take back 758 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,920 Speaker 1: in the day. Well, there's this one family. They're sitting 759 00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,080 Speaker 1: at a kitchen table. I believe it's a mother or 760 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,440 Speaker 1: or maybe a few other family members and the warrants. 761 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:08,040 Speaker 1: And as a videographer, the way that these shots are framed, 762 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,719 Speaker 1: they are just wide enough to get in parts of 763 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,200 Speaker 1: the table, parts of the chair, and then let's say 764 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,440 Speaker 1: the subject would be the daughter or the mother holding 765 00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,799 Speaker 1: the chair, and the they are discussing as they're filming this, 766 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,680 Speaker 1: the demons that are you know, possessing either the daughter 767 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,360 Speaker 1: or the chair or the table or something, and the 768 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,520 Speaker 1: chair will move or the table will move, but you 769 00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,319 Speaker 1: cannot see the full table in frame on any of 770 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,120 Speaker 1: the different angles that they're using. So it is I 771 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:46,799 Speaker 1: cannot suspend my my rational thinking enough to say that 772 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,560 Speaker 1: there's no way that somebody, some party is moving these things, 773 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:55,520 Speaker 1: these objects, right, some physical human person is moving these things, 774 00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,759 Speaker 1: and it makes me so frustrated because if he would 775 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,239 Speaker 1: only zoom out just a little bit or move the 776 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,840 Speaker 1: camera away just a little bit, I would I would 777 00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 1: so much more at least be close that if they 778 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:08,640 Speaker 1: did that, then you'd be able to see the person 779 00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:10,680 Speaker 1: down on the floor moving the table, if there is 780 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:12,960 Speaker 1: a person, if they're exactly if there is a peasing. 781 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,600 Speaker 1: But it's like you see these things, they're always just 782 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,239 Speaker 1: enough to pique your interests, and then there's something that's 783 00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,680 Speaker 1: framed out or it's just blurry enough, like you know, 784 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,160 Speaker 1: like a bigfoot video or something like that, where it 785 00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,120 Speaker 1: so that's that could be a thing. But you know, 786 00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just saying, it's just interesting that these 787 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:34,120 Speaker 1: quote unquote bits of proof usually fall short in some sure. 788 00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:36,400 Speaker 1: I'm just saying, if you're out there and you're a 789 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 1: videographer trying to capture some paranormal activity like this, use 790 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,000 Speaker 1: the rule of thirds or just give me a wide shot. 791 00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,480 Speaker 1: Just give me a wide shot. And then there's also 792 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,040 Speaker 1: there's also the allegation pup will have that uh if 793 00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:53,960 Speaker 1: they are investigating as fairly as they can some unidentified phenomenon, Uh, 794 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,840 Speaker 1: they will accuse the more skeptical of changing the goal 795 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:02,080 Speaker 1: post or raz roof increasingly I agree with in some 796 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,719 Speaker 1: cases is a valley criticism. I just want, how have 797 00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:09,879 Speaker 1: we not gotten some just super baller ghost hunter that's 798 00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:14,000 Speaker 1: really good at like shooting video and has just made 799 00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:19,400 Speaker 1: a collection of like super proof positive pieces of you know, 800 00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,600 Speaker 1: visual evidence of this stuff. How I mean, if if 801 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:23,759 Speaker 1: it was going to happen, do you think what do 802 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:27,279 Speaker 1: you think it would have happened by Nowelogy? There will 803 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 1: be you know, will there have been maybe twelve shows across, 804 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,799 Speaker 1: but come on, those are such Cheryl is running around 805 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,440 Speaker 1: in the dark and say, I feel hand someone touched me. 806 00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,719 Speaker 1: You know they're tripped. I would, I would. I don't 807 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,920 Speaker 1: think those are serious investigations. I think those are purely entertainment. 808 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,279 Speaker 1: I think there's one way to do it. And I 809 00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,040 Speaker 1: think one television show got it right back in the 810 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,200 Speaker 1: year two thousand up until two thousand two. This isn't 811 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:56,840 Speaker 1: This is what I pose it to you, guys. Okay, 812 00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:01,640 Speaker 1: we're one show on MTV called Fear. What they would 813 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:03,239 Speaker 1: do you? I don't know if you guys remember this. 814 00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:08,759 Speaker 1: They would send celebrities, usually alone with a rig that 815 00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,440 Speaker 1: has a forward facing uh camera camera that's looking at 816 00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,760 Speaker 1: the face, and they would go alone into a place 817 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,360 Speaker 1: that's supposedly haunted and do something that has to do 818 00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,960 Speaker 1: with the lore of the haunted house. Now, the reason 819 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,719 Speaker 1: why I'm saying this is because I think having a 820 00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:28,600 Speaker 1: single human being alone in a place like that, not 821 00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,440 Speaker 1: only is it going to produce in that human the 822 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,760 Speaker 1: natural fear that comes from being in a spooky place, 823 00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,600 Speaker 1: even if there's no actual paranormal stuff involved, but it 824 00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:43,520 Speaker 1: also eliminates all the other all the other things that 825 00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,240 Speaker 1: could be happening with someone else making noise, someone else, 826 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,760 Speaker 1: you know, moving an object in a room or something 827 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,319 Speaker 1: like that. I think, you, guys, this is how we 828 00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:57,400 Speaker 1: find the ghosts. We contact MTV, we get fearback, we start, 829 00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,560 Speaker 1: we start a new season. Maybe the three of us 830 00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,319 Speaker 1: are on it. I don't know, on the pilot. What 831 00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:04,799 Speaker 1: do you think? This isn't the same one where they 832 00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,600 Speaker 1: make the meat like elk penis is it? No? Well 833 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,840 Speaker 1: that's fear factor. Fear factor, This is called fear. You 834 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,800 Speaker 1: guys never saw this show? Can I play the ghost? 835 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:19,640 Speaker 1: I guess that invalidates this show. Okay, all right, well 836 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,439 Speaker 1: I am glad to hear that there's at least one 837 00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,319 Speaker 1: that is doing it correctly. We'll check it out and 838 00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,560 Speaker 1: if you think we can pull the reboot, ladies and 839 00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,359 Speaker 1: gentlemen who are all about it. Matt, you have persuaded me, Nol. 840 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:30,760 Speaker 1: What do you think you want to give it a shot? 841 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:34,120 Speaker 1: Why not? Man, I'm up for anything, like seriously, just 842 00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,600 Speaker 1: going to an old jail and sitting the cell for 843 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,640 Speaker 1: an hour. No, I'm not gonna golone. No, why that 844 00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:43,080 Speaker 1: sounds spooky? Well, yeah, that's the whole point, you guys. 845 00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,319 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna make an admission here before you 846 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,120 Speaker 1: and all of you listeners. I've never been to a 847 00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,239 Speaker 1: haunted house like one of those like you know, like 848 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,919 Speaker 1: the fake Really, Nam, I'm scared of you. I don't 849 00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,280 Speaker 1: like it. I'll like getting scared. Do you have any idea? 850 00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:57,960 Speaker 1: That's why I'm so That's why I'm poop doing all 851 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,719 Speaker 1: this stuff, because I'm like, No, I was wondering you 852 00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,160 Speaker 1: would make perfect television though, that's what I'm saying. I 853 00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,239 Speaker 1: would freak out because it were I think you know, 854 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:09,919 Speaker 1: I would go just because I'm interested in what it's 855 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,239 Speaker 1: like to feel things. I don't know if I've you know, 856 00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,240 Speaker 1: maybe this will be the time I have an emotion. 857 00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,719 Speaker 1: So MTV get at us. We're ready, all right, and 858 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,840 Speaker 1: uh we hope that you enjoyed our episode. Here on 859 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:27,759 Speaker 1: the controversy surrounding Ed and Lorraine Warren, we want to 860 00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,799 Speaker 1: hear from you. Do you think this is legit? Do 861 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:34,080 Speaker 1: you think that they have actually found things? If so, 862 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,239 Speaker 1: what we do want you to know that you can 863 00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,719 Speaker 1: visit the Occult Museum at the time of this recording, 864 00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:46,520 Speaker 1: which is May. Lorraine Warren is alive at the time 865 00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:50,200 Speaker 1: of this recording. However, I do not know if she 866 00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:56,920 Speaker 1: is continually granting interviews and whether you believe their stories 867 00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:02,239 Speaker 1: or not. It seems that May and many many other 868 00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,360 Speaker 1: people around the world do believe them. And at the 869 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:10,480 Speaker 1: very least, these people are a hallmark of American psychic folklore, 870 00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:13,120 Speaker 1: which I know sounds like a weird genre, but it's 871 00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:15,800 Speaker 1: a storied one and it's very good. Who else should 872 00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:17,799 Speaker 1: we add to this, Who else should we take a 873 00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:22,120 Speaker 1: look at in US British world history, especially as someone 874 00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,480 Speaker 1: that people in the West haven't heard about. We love 875 00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:26,759 Speaker 1: to check it out, so let us know. You can 876 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,759 Speaker 1: write to us on Facebook and Twitter. We are conspiracy 877 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:30,680 Speaker 1: stuff at both of those. You can check out our 878 00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,160 Speaker 1: earlier podcasts and ghost on our website. Stuff then want 879 00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,799 Speaker 1: you to know dot com. And just to show you 880 00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,879 Speaker 1: how important it is to hear from listeners, I think 881 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:45,279 Speaker 1: it's time for shut up COONa. Our first shout out 882 00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:50,360 Speaker 1: goes to a website. It's the Outpost Forum. You you 883 00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,799 Speaker 1: may have visited this before, I don't. It seems like 884 00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:54,960 Speaker 1: a lot of people are going there. There's a specific 885 00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,640 Speaker 1: threat on this website that's dedicated to this show and 886 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,200 Speaker 1: our buddy Casper Parks, who is a writer who has 887 00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,439 Speaker 1: written to us several times. Um he updates the thread 888 00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,799 Speaker 1: every week with our latest video. So if you know 889 00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,400 Speaker 1: you're looking for another place to talk with people about 890 00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,360 Speaker 1: our show, there you go check out the Outpost Forum. 891 00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:13,640 Speaker 1: There's also all kinds of other stuff you can explore 892 00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:17,600 Speaker 1: there too, so check it out. And our next shout 893 00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:22,480 Speaker 1: out comes to us from an anonymous source who said, 894 00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:27,239 Speaker 1: please give a shout out to Joel Plots p l 895 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:33,359 Speaker 1: O s Z Joel who's shouting Joel? Yeah? Who can 896 00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,040 Speaker 1: that be? Man? We can't tell you. Our next shout 897 00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,200 Speaker 1: out is a personal shout out for me. Um, I'd 898 00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:42,640 Speaker 1: like to shout out my girlfriend Rock Sane, who just 899 00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:47,480 Speaker 1: finished listening to the gin and UM presidential primary episodes 900 00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,080 Speaker 1: on the road traveling for work, and she listened to 901 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,680 Speaker 1: him back to back and it gave some really nice feedback. 902 00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:55,680 Speaker 1: And you know, and she's a tough one, so she 903 00:55:56,560 --> 00:56:01,759 Speaker 1: said that I sounded really smart. Let's not let's not 904 00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,080 Speaker 1: split hairs here anyway, Rock Sanda, thank you for thinking 905 00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,640 Speaker 1: that I'm smart, for allowing me to maintain that illusion 906 00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:11,560 Speaker 1: with you, and uh, you know, Bias, thanks for being 907 00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:13,600 Speaker 1: my lady friend. And Um, I hope you have a 908 00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,800 Speaker 1: good good work work times. What what a beautiful romantic 909 00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,359 Speaker 1: And to today's shout out corner, that was really nice. 910 00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:26,319 Speaker 1: Thanks Diana. Oh gosh, that's my wife. By the way, 911 00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:29,239 Speaker 1: I'm just putting out there. She'll never hear that, but 912 00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,319 Speaker 1: it's there. She'll feel it in her heart. That's right. 913 00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:34,719 Speaker 1: And if you would like to send a shout out 914 00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,560 Speaker 1: to us or a suggestion for a future topic, a 915 00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,080 Speaker 1: story about ghosts, we would love to hear it. Social 916 00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:43,560 Speaker 1: media is not your thing, no worries. You can write 917 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,840 Speaker 1: to us directly. We are conspiracy and how stuff works 918 00:56:47,320 --> 00:57:15,239 Speaker 1: Dot com