WEBVTT - Caravan to Catch the Killer: Dr. Maggie Zingman’s Devotion to her Daughter 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.600 This episode on Britney Phillips. We need to start over 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:08.240 completely on this case. In my opinion, we need fresh eyes, 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:12.920 fresh ears, even fresh legs on this thing. We need 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.520 to go back to the community. Law enforcement needs time 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:24.440 to re examine, reinterview, reinvestigate, and I believe resubmit evidence. 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:35.600 I have now dropped to both my son and daughter 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:39.360 off at college. Moving them into their first apartment was 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.880 like a success and a heartbreak at the exact same time. 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:47.040 I was so happy for them, but at the same 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:51.880 time I was gonna miss them something terrible. Anything that 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.920 could make that experience easier, I just lunge toward it. 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:58.440 And one of the things that I found comfort in 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.200 is they were both living with friends since they had 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.520 known from elementary school or middle school that came from 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:11.560 wonderful families, and this helped ease my mind. So in 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:16.880 our case today, when the mom leaves her daughter in 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:21.640 her first apartment, knowing the apartment is right across the 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:24.640 street from her old high school, there has to be 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:28.680 comfort in that her old school resource officers right there, 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:32.160 just yards away from her front door, old teachers and 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:36.240 administrators that knew her and cared about her. Old coaches 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.280 that would have helped her in a heartbeat if anything 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:43.640 were to happen. You're talking about roughly fifty adults that 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:47.720 could have helped her child any minute, from about seven 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.640 in the morning till dinner time when practices were over. 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:55.000 She had access to those people to help her. I'm 0:01:55.080 --> 0:02:03.400 Cheryl McCollum, and this his own seven. I started my 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.480 career in the trenches, and honey, I've stayed there for 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:10.880 the past forty years. I've worked every facet of the 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:16.280 criminal justice system, police, courts and corrections. I've worked with 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:21.800 law enforcement, victims of crime, and criminals to solve complex cases, 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:25.960 and I have genuinely befriended most of them. I've had 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.560 the opportunity to work on hundreds of some of the 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:33.200 most intriguing cold cases you've heard of, and thousands that 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:38.360 you haven't. I'm not a first responder, I'm a last responder. 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:44.680 Today we are talking about the murder of beautiful Brittney Phillips. 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:49.040 She was killed in her off campus apartment and there 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:53.160 was no forced entry. So let's start where it ended. 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:58.160 This case takes us to Tulsa, Oklahoma. Tultsa sits on 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:03.320 the Arkansas River. Second largest city in Oklahoma. It is 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:08.320 part of the Mother Road Honey Root, SI. Population is 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.880 just over four hundred thousand people. It's the home of 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:17.000 Garth Brooks, Alfrey Woodard, Paul Harvey, and others. But on September, 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:23.880 just after nine pm, the worst happened. Brittney Phillips in 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:29.720 her own apartment. Again no forced entry. A killer finds her, 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.920 sexually assaults her and leaves her on the floor of 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:37.680 her bedroom. Now did he knock on the door and 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.600 Brett let him in? Was this somebody she knew? Was 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:45.320 this a stranger or was he already inside the apartment? 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:48.800 Because there's one fact about this apartment that is the 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:53.200 stuff of horror movies. In her closet, there was a 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:57.320 little doorway, a doorway she didn't even notice, didn't know 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:02.680 anything about her mom never even noticed it. But that 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:10.000 little doorway connected Britt's apartment with other apartments, so somebody 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:14.040 in another area of that building could have accessed her apartment. 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.200 Friends were concerned when she didn't show back up for 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:23.160 school for work. She never missed work, she never miss class. 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:27.200 She was an honor student, she was brilliant. Police did 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:31.479 a welfare check and that's when the horrible discovery was made. 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:36.080 Brett had no boyfriend, she had no known stalker, There 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:40.159 was no drug use, There was no police issues. This 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:46.600 was a good kid, a devoted student, a good friend. 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.839 Family and friends had no idea who would want to 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:55.560 harm her. Police did find DNA at the same but 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.080 there were no matches in Codis. Law enforcement believes it 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:02.279 might be somebody that she knew, and that person might 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.400 have been aware that she lived alone. Just because she 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:07.679 didn't know she had a talker doesn't mean she didn't 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:13.600 have one. Brittany had no known enemies. Police had again, 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.840 never been to the house for any reason. No drugs, 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:22.440 no alcohol, no abusive behavior, nothing, nothing that gave them 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:28.279 cause to suspect anyone of hurting her. This case has 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:36.719 been cold for eighteen years. Brittany was eighteen years old. 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:41.080 This case has been as cold as she was alive. 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.719 Let's talk about her circle. She had good friends, she 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:49.200 had classmates, a lot of them. She had people that 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:53.800 she knew in the apartment, even a handyman. Neighbors, past 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.360 high school connections. Again, all of her teachers and coaches 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:01.400 are right across the street. In there were the known 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.120 sex offenders in the area, and then they looked for 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:11.320 similar transaction. The sheriff, Rigaldo said, at one point and 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:17.159 he had two hundred and seventies six potential suspects. Let 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:22.920 that marinate a minute. Two hundred and seventies six suspects 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:28.240 in a area of town known to have no problems, 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:34.280 no violent crimes, no police issues. Everybody that so far 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:40.560 submitted their DNA didn't match anything in Codis. Nobody popped up. Now, 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:45.640 there was one person. They found his DNA in her 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:49.560 bedroom and in the kitchen, but he explained it away. 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.479 He explained why his DNA would be in there. And 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.880 I'm gonna get right to our guest. Y'all. This woman 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:02.080 is a road warrior, there is no two ways about it. 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:10.600 She's Brittany's mama, she's got a PhD. She's a hard worker, 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.840 she's a good friend. But when I tell you, she 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:19.120 is tireless and fearless. She did something that is so 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:28.040 remarkable and just cool that when you hear what she's 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:30.840 done to try to find the killer of her child, 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.160 I think it's gonna just make you fall in love 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:40.280 with her. So I'm gonna welcome Dr Maggie Zingman and 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:45.840 doctor welcome to Zone s Heaven. Thank you, Cheryl. It's 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:50.600 always great and it's always invigorating talking to you. Well, 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.600 let's get right to it. Worse happens. You get a 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:55.960 knock at the door. I get a knock at the door, 0:07:56.080 --> 0:08:00.400 and I'm fifty miles away from Tulsa in Chandler, Oklahoma, Alma. 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:02.800 And the knock on the door that I get, which 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:05.360 was after my son was notified, was a young sheriff 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:07.800 who just has a little piece of paper and he 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.360 asked me, are you Maggie Zingman And I said yes, 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.400 And you hanced me this piece of paper and goes, 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.680 you need to call detective felt In your daughter has 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.840 been murdered, and then he leaves. I mean, that was 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.440 my notification. You know. I found out later my son 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:25.560 had been notified because they thought I was still in 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:29.280 Tulsa with a chaplain with two detectives. You know, he 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.240 was notified in the right way, but mine. It was 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.960 shocking anyways to hear my daughter was murdered, but to 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:39.839 be told in that way was even more unbelievable. It's 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.560 gut wrenching. And you had tried to call her a 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:47.160 couple of days before. Well, I actually talked her Monday night. 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:51.079 She was at school and she was having problems with 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:53.520 her sinuses and trying to get into doctors and she 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.120 couldn't and she would always get really upset when things 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.440 wouldn't go her way. And so I told her i'd 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:00.480 meet with her on the weekend like when you usually do, 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.920 and find her a doctor to go see. And then 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:06.440 I called her. That was Monday night, and then Tuesday 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:09.400 night I called her. Wednesday night, I called her, and 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.840 I knew she was in classes late those nights, so 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:14.679 I thought nothing of it. But Thursday night I called 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:18.480 her and left that typical mom message, Brittany, I know 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.640 you're okay, but please please just call me. I know 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:26.200 you're fine. And that was probably a like ten at night, 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:30.240 and at one am the next morning, which was October one, 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:33.240 that's when I received that knock on the door. We 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:37.600 all know that desperate need just let me know you're okay. 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.120 I think every mom whose child has been away from 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.280 them for ten minutes, if their next door playing with neighbors, 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:47.160 just let me know you're okay. You know that's instinctual. 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:49.640 I mean, you can't help that, you can't. And then 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:52.640 every time that you do that call, you get a 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.360 call back. You know, you are used to getting those 0:09:56.400 --> 0:10:00.160 calls back. You don't expect that knock on the door. Oh, 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:04.079 and there's no way to prepare for that. So a 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.880 lot of times, you know, people will say, oh, you 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:09.840 know the worst thing, What in the world would I do? Like, 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.120 what would you do if this happened? Well, I know 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:18.720 what you did, and it is unbelievable. So you go 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:23.560 to Parabon and you get a composite made of the 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:27.479 suspect from the DNA the police have. So with phenotyping, 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:32.880 you basically have his picture. All right, y'all, Parabond, I'm 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:37.160 going to explain my way. I am a crime scene investigator. 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:41.719 I'm not a scientist. I collect evidence to sin to 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:45.000 scientists to tell me what we can get from it. 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:50.800 But the Parabond nano labs they do something so extraordinary. 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:58.320 They take this nano pharmaceutical and develop DNA from phenotypes. 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:03.240 And what that basically means is inside your DNA are 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:08.040 all these little phenotype and things running all around, and 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:13.439 they inside tell everything about you. Your hair color, your 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:19.280 eye color, whether or not you have freckles, anything about 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:25.400 you physically is in phenotypes. Inside your body, and that 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:32.200 Parabond takes and develops a composite of what the person 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:37.120 looks like that left behind this DNA sample. So Parabon 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:44.600 literally puts together a composite of what the suspect looks 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:49.520 like based on the DNA left behind. You know, he's 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:51.920 a white guy with blue eyes and blonde hair and 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:54.880 a little bit of freckles. And what do you do 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.920 with that composite? Well, you know, it's interesting, But I 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.400 just want to step back for one second, real quickly 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:07.679 and say that composite was done that year fifteen after 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:12.800 like you said earlier, hundreds and hundreds there was Jeff Felt, 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.599 and then there was Vic and then there was Eddie Majors. 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.840 But we had ruled out almost a thousand suspects and finally, 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.320 through me pushing for funding and getting some funding for 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.400 it to be sent to Parabond, that's where we finally, 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:30.800 in your sixteen and seventeen got the phenotype sketch. And 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:34.760 I had already wrapped three different cars that I travel 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.839 across the country, and and so this time I took 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.240 his picture and I put it on my hood of 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:42.559 my car. I didn't want it on the side because 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:44.960 I didn't want to look at his face, but I 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.040 wanted other people to look at his face. So it 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:49.480 was on the hood of my car. When I went 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:53.040 to hotels, people would be on balconies, people would come 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.960 up to the car, and so that also got us 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.840 a lot of tips. Okay, I just want to be 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.400 sure people understand what you just said, y'all. She took 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:05.160 that composite of the person she believed killed her daughter 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.320 and slapped it on the hood of the car and drove. 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.360 Drove to the grocery store, drove to the bank, drove 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.400 wherever she needed to go during the day. But then 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.920 she put together a road trip where she went across 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:23.800 the United States and back. She logged over three hundred 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:28.400 thousand miles. Now I was lucky enough to sit shotgun 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:32.800 while she came through Georgia. When I tell you the 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:36.079 attention she got from this car, the people that would 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.360 at a stop like give a thumbs up or take 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.760 a picture of the car. When we would stop to 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.440 talk to people, they would come up. They would want 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:48.120 to hear the whole story. And what struck me again 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:52.560 as a mama myself, you were champion for your child. 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:57.160 One person at a time you would stop and talk 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.679 to one person for thirty minutes. I saw you do it. 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.560 You came to my police department and talked to everybody 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.720 in c I d you and I even went to 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.440 some private homes and talk to people so that you 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:10.760 could get the word out. And then you would leave 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.319 the next day and go to another state. I mean, 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:18.520 it was a remarkable thing to see that sort of drive. 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:22.720 That's sort of just I'm gonna, you know, take this 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:24.680 on the road because I don't know where he's at, 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:27.800 but whether he's on a highway or a back road 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:32.040 or a dirt road, that's where I'm going. Really. In 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.720 two thousand seven, when I started, it was only for 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.640 our story and stuff, But by about two thousand and fifteen, 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.160 because I had met so many other homicide families and 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:45.880 most aren't as crazy as me. You know, they're not 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:50.200 driving three hundred thousand miles alone by themselves. And so 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.720 I really started focusing on every city where I was 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:58.840 doing a story, asking homicide survivor families to connect with 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:02.120 me because so many, I mean, I've met thousands who 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.360 don't have a voice, and that's a problem. Sometimes it 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.440 seems like the cold cases get the least coverage because 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:13.600 the missing and unidentified. You know, these are still stories 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.240 that could be solved either way, so you know there 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:19.440 is a sort of urgent need to solve them. But 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:23.560 these are urgent too because our killers, if they're not dead, 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:30.600 they're killing and raping. Still absolutely all right, So you're 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.840 hitting the road, you're meeting people. How does this help 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.760 bolster your case? Like, what does your local law enforcement 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:43.320 think about your caravan injuice? Well, it depends which ones 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:47.440 you're talking about. Um. For the first ten years of 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:51.800 my case, Jeff felt In, my detective was so unbelievable. 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.400 He was my champion. He would allow me into getting 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.160 some information on where they were because he would tell me. 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.360 And I always try to talk with criminal justice people 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.120 and I say, tell people what you can and tell 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:07.520 them why you can't, you know, And he would say, well, 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:09.160 I can't share this with you, or I'm going to 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.840 share it with you, but if it is shared with media, 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.200 you know, it could hurt our stoice. I really learned 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.200 a lot about criminal justice through that, and so he 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.040 and Mike Cupp, who was head of homicide, they were 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.840 my champions. Every new car because I'm on my fourth 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.080 car now that's been wrapped, every car that I got wrapped, 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:30.680 my cuffed, the head of homicide would be there. And 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.640 Mike used to say, if we solve this case, Maggie, 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:36.280 it's going to be because of you, because you're out there. 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:41.280 That changed with the third detective, Vic Regulatto, was only 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.800 my detective for one year. I didn't know he was 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:47.400 going to become head sheriff, which now he's there, you know, 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.840 helping out as much as he can. But after that, 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.680 there was blockage to use in cold case groups. There 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:59.520 was a lack of information shared, and even though he's retired, 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:03.560 that is pretty much. I really feel TPDE even though 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.760 I've done nothing to break their trust, They've become very 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:11.720 untrusting and they also don't have the resources. Every city 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:15.439 that I've gone to has has formed, like you, all 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.760 cold case groups. You know, they don't just put one 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:23.840 person into the second major city of Oklahoma over cold cases. 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.000 I mean, it's ridiculous. And the thing is, if they 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:31.480 would reach out, there are resources out there that would 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:36.399 be willingly given to them at no cost. In the 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:45.320 decades since Brittany's murder, technology has advanced just ridiculously, So 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.080 you think if we could go back in time and 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:52.480 it her crime scene have what we have today. We 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:57.040 would have had access to Francine Bardola, the Bardol method 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.840 in that and Jared Bradley working it. We would have 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:06.080 had CC more immediately helping with the ancestry connections. We 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:10.480 would have had folks like Dr David Middleman, an authorom 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.600 that almost in real time can tell you who the 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.920 DNA belongs to. We wouldn't have wasted years in decades 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:24.000 testing and experts and flying people, you know, back and forth. 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.000 It wouldn't cast him a dime if they would just 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.080 reach out to these people that are more than willing 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.639 to help out, and they're saying that they are, but 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:34.520 so far uh from what people are telling me. I 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:37.480 don't know this maybe is my assumption, but dragging their 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:41.720 feet on allowing it. So you know, we're meeting more 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:46.119 and more because like you said, eighteen years alive, eighteen 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.760 years of cold case, this anniversary on October four, because 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.919 we buried her on her nineteenth birthday. It just broke 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.359 my heart because every story I did, I was saying 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:00.400 she was alive eighteen years, we buried her on our 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:04.199 nineteenth birthday. And now it's been a cold case for 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.840 eighteen years, although the first ten years they never really 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:13.480 called it cold because Jeff kept turning over every single suspect. 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:17.200 And I also wanted to just add something here. When 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:22.280 we discovered that DNA belonged to, you know, someone who 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:26.720 they said wasn't her killer. That was after using it 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:33.080 until two thousand nineteen to compare against suspects, every single 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:38.560 suspects that profile was used to, you know, say most 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.680 likely this isn't our killer because their DNA isn't matching. 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.639 So what I fought with since two thousand nineteen is 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:49.840 getting tell us the police to go back over a 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.640 lot of those suspects. We had some great, very bizarre 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:57.160 ones that you know, Jeff would go, I'm so surprised, 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:04.840 as DNA doesn't match. Yeah, so you drive around with 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:07.600 this guy's picture on your car, We all take pictures 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.439 of your hood, we all share it, and then they 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:16.160 call you and they say it's not him. After all 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:20.439 those miles and all those years, it's not him. I 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:24.159 got the call. I was on I think my twenty 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:28.840 caravan and I was in Yacoma, Washington, and I got 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:32.600 the call and when and I knew that they possibly 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:36.720 had a hit, but I didn't know exactly. And when 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:39.400 I got a call from him and it said from 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:43.280 Detective Majors and he said, we got a direct hit 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:50.480 and he's not our killer. I felt almost the same 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:54.240 exact way that I did when I got that notice 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.280 that she had been murdered. You know, it was like, 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:01.720 oh my god, that means we're back to ground zero. 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:04.240 How can I And one of the things I said 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:07.040 to him, and I said to everybody else during that 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.280 whole month long of torture, while we were explaining to 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:14.080 people what happened, I said, I can't. I'm not going 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:16.160 to live in another nineteen years. I don't think I'll 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.040 be alive to solve this. And that's how I felt. 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:22.800 And I was told that there was a good alibi, 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:31.800 air tight. So Mr X left seminal DNA in Brittany's 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:36.680 bedroom and blood evidence in the kitchen, and he explained that, hey, 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:39.919 sometimes my girlfriend and I would use Brittany's department for 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:44.360 a little tryst, and you know, possibly I got hurt 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:47.800 once whatever, and that was it. They accepted it had 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:51.959 moved on. When you and I talked, one of the 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:56.119 things that we agreed on is if that is true, 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:01.680 then there should be vaginal fluid from another female, not Brittany, 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:06.000 on that same piece of evidence. And if that's not 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:08.960 the case, then we have an issue that needs to 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:12.199 be cleared up. And each meeting that I've had, a 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:15.960 meeting I had in February and one later, um I 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:18.200 was told they were going to analyze it. Of course, 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:20.520 since they don't share anything with me, I don't know 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:23.000 if they had, but I know both you and you're 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:26.960 a code case group, and I know Sheriff Regulatto and 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:31.600 his code case group, which also includes FBI agents. I mean, 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:35.040 it includes a lot of retired experts. I know. Those 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:38.560 are the questions you asked and the feeling I get 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:42.280 when I asked these questions, and it's like, you can't 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:45.040 see this, but a little pat on the shoulder. You're 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:49.400 just a homicide mother. It's okay. You don't understand this stuff. 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:54.520 I'm sorry. Maybe some don't, but I've been educated by 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:58.280 some of the best, like you, like Jeff, like vic 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:02.239 so I do understand that. Along with that, you know, 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:05.399 there's stuff that in two thousand four, we didn't have 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:10.240 the ability to analyze DNA the way we do now. Absolutely. 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:14.160 We have such gift nowadays with Francine Bardole and Jared 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:17.200 Bradley and orthrom Are you kidding me? It's a whole 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:22.560 different world today. There's touch DNA, there's the m VAC, 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:25.720 you know. And I had a meeting and I asked him, 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:28.480 are you using these things you know and stuff? And 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:35.159 I was totally were. But again, everywhere I travel, and 0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:39.200 that's three hundred thousand miles, and that's probably three hundred 0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:42.680 cities and probably at least two hundred police departments I've 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:47.040 talked to, every single one of them says hell, yeah, 0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:50.399 we have asked this cold case group to come in, 0:23:50.560 --> 0:23:53.240 or yeah, hey we got funding to develop our own 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:58.480 nonprofit cold case group from all the experts. And when 0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:03.000 I first was asking at Majors about this, way back 0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:06.000 in the early years of him doing this, every time 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:09.520 I asked him until the year he retired, I kept saying, 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:13.120 he goes, well, you know, we have such great detectives here. 0:24:13.240 --> 0:24:17.760 I said, it's not about great detectives or anything. It's 0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:21.000 on old cases having a fresh set advice. You know what, 0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:24.240 They might prove that you've done everything that is possible, 0:24:25.280 --> 0:24:27.760 or they might be able to see some corners that 0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:31.959 you couldn't see around. It's about wanting help to solve 0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:35.879 these cases. And on the front line, I'm always told, 0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:41.080 you know, we're dedicated, you know, and you shouldn't feel 0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:44.280 this way, you know how Almost some meetings I've had 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:46.760 it's like, how dare you feel like we're not working 0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:50.840 the case? How dare you ask for a cold case investigators? 0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:55.280 It's ridiculous. I'm tired, you know, and you know me. Uh. 0:24:55.520 --> 0:25:00.600 In earlier interviews, I've I've been good, you know with Jeff, 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:04.400 I applauded tp D. You know I had no reason 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:09.480 to complain. Um, but this is ridiculous. Well, here's the 0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:12.600 bottom line. I believe they're dedicated, I know they're good, 0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:16.560 but that doesn't mean you don't need some help exactly. 0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:19.520 I mean I was a dedicated, good parent, but honey, 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:25.000 I needed help a lot. And that doesn't do and 0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:27.320 that that's not a negative thing. I mean, I've got 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:30.720 four sisters that absolutely helped raise my children. There's nothing 0:25:30.760 --> 0:25:34.280 negative with that. If anything, it made my children more 0:25:34.320 --> 0:25:38.639 incredible people, period. Bottom line. So ask for help, and 0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:41.160 even if you don't ask it, if it's offered, freaking 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:45.120 take it. It's important to get that, you know, fresh 0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:47.399 set of eyes, and to learn about these new people 0:25:47.400 --> 0:25:50.240 and these new tools that maybe you don't know. And 0:25:50.280 --> 0:25:52.040 people ask me all the time, hey, do you know 0:25:52.240 --> 0:25:54.480 so and so that's a medical examine or do you 0:25:54.520 --> 0:25:57.240 know so and so a homicide detective? Just because I've 0:25:57.240 --> 0:25:59.320 never heard of them, don't And that doesn't mean they're 0:25:59.320 --> 0:26:02.400 not faculous. It just means I haven't heard of them yet. 0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:05.359 But tell me about them now. I know. Now they 0:26:05.400 --> 0:26:08.520 can go in my Rolo dex. Happy day. It's all good, 0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:12.800 all right, Let's walk through the crime step by step. 0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:16.840 Like I said, I called her at nine nine pm 0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:19.600 was probably when I talked to her on the so 0:26:19.680 --> 0:26:23.199 what they told me and I met Jeff the next morning. 0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:26.320 I drove down there by myself, and you know, her 0:26:26.320 --> 0:26:29.040 body had already been taken away. They identified it by 0:26:29.320 --> 0:26:32.920 the license, which upset me. But Jeff was there relatively soon, 0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:36.359