Speaker 1: Uh, what's abusive? My friendship with Cody. I'm Robert Evans,
Speaker 1: host of Behind the Bastards, podcast about terrible People, with
Speaker 1: my good friend Tody Johnston. Cody, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: Hello there. I'm spectacular. I couldn't be better and a
Speaker 1: fantastic won't be judging from No, you're a little I
Speaker 1: know about what we're gonna talk about. You're gonna have
Speaker 1: a terrible day to day, Cody. Cody, you are the
Speaker 1: host of some More News and the co host of
Speaker 1: the podcast with a similar but not exactly the same name,
Speaker 1: um YouTube Sensation, it would be fair to say, and
Speaker 1: my absolutely and my friend of many years and Cody Deep.
Speaker 1: Are you familiar with the concept of love languages? I am. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's it's this idea that that people there's different people
Speaker 1: express love in different ways, and in a major part
Speaker 1: of having a healthy relations it is understanding the way
Speaker 1: that the people in your life express love and communicating
Speaker 1: to them the way that you do so that you
Speaker 1: don't misunderstand each other and you appreciate, you know, when
Speaker 1: the other person tries to share with you the way
Speaker 1: they feel. And I've I've come to recognize over the
Speaker 1: years Cody, that you and I have a particular love language.
Speaker 1: It started a couple of years ago when you began
Speaker 1: telling me about Dr Jordan B. Peterson. Um. That all
Speaker 1: culminated in me putting together like a three hour podcast
Speaker 1: series about the life of Dr Jordan B. Peterson. And
Speaker 1: then a couple of years later you put together a
Speaker 1: three hour video about everything Jordan Peterson has ever said
Speaker 1: and done and and and I just watched that, Cody,
Speaker 1: and now I am about to sit down with you,
Speaker 1: and I am about to share, as part of my
Speaker 1: love language, some more about Jordan B. Peterson. This is
Speaker 1: what we call romance and romance there's nothing pure. Um.
Speaker 1: So thank you. I I received. I believe I started
Speaker 1: this by saying, Cody, I love you. I'm sorry, instantly
Speaker 1: apologetic as soon as I popped off. Cody. You know
Speaker 1: Mr Peterson, doctor Mr Peterson, Um. And you know I'm
Speaker 1: sure that he has recently started a new television show,
Speaker 1: a hit new TV show. Everybody's talking about it on
Speaker 1: the Daily Wire TV show. It's it's like a show.
Speaker 1: It's like a show. It is it has the it's
Speaker 1: a show is a great description the show for sure,
Speaker 1: like like it contains the totemic sigils that associated as
Speaker 1: being like a television show. So like if you were
Speaker 1: like the things that, like the the the representative artifacts
Speaker 1: that signify that something is a TV show are present
Speaker 1: in this thing, which is not a TV show. It's
Speaker 1: on the Daily Wire's website. Um, not even Daily Wire
Speaker 1: Plus on their website now or so, Yeah, you have
Speaker 1: to get whatever they're streaming account. I don't know, Cody.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you how I got this show.
Speaker 1: You don't need to, Okay. I understand it's called Dragons,
Speaker 1: Monsters and Men um boring. That's classic. I think there's
Speaker 1: any chance at all that like the name was picked
Speaker 1: in part because they're like, well, the new Game of Thrones,
Speaker 1: And then I think so because the introna like, so
Speaker 1: you watched the new Lord of the Ring show, Cody,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it yet. Um, it's pretty good. I
Speaker 1: like it, But the intro of it is very clearly
Speaker 1: doing a Game of Thrones like that that that kind
Speaker 1: of like where it's sort of a kind of abstract representation, um,
Speaker 1: using like symbols and stuff and whatever. Um, it's fine,
Speaker 1: but they're doing the same thing in Dragons monsters and
Speaker 1: men to open the series. Yeah, well so for listeners. Uh,
Speaker 1: a screen is being shared with me, and the first
Speaker 1: frame of this show is on screen, and I instantly
Speaker 1: believe you and agree with you, and like, it's not
Speaker 1: even it's not even a letter I'm looking at. I'm
Speaker 1: looking at the shape of a part of a letter
Speaker 1: from the intro, Like, yeah, they're doing thrones. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: all smoky and dusty, and like, yeah, let's just let's
Speaker 1: play the start of this and you at home will
Speaker 1: hear it, and then we'll kind of describe what we're
Speaker 1: seeing after you've heard it. But I think both are valuable. Cody,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I love you, and starting yet, Sophie, what hey,
Speaker 1: they can't do this? Come on alright, alright, alright, let's
Speaker 1: let's pause it and talking them. Is it just him
Speaker 1: at a chair? It's just him in a chair. But so, so,
Speaker 1: what we see that intro is like a bunch of
Speaker 1: they kind of look like stone age glyphs, a mix
Speaker 1: of like stuff that might be runic shapes. I'm not
Speaker 1: a Runes expert. Maybe their actual runs um, but runs
Speaker 1: in like a video games, you know, there's like animal glyphs,
Speaker 1: there's like an arrow that's going up like progress and
Speaker 1: then turns down, probably because the liberals started doing a
Speaker 1: gender wokeness. Yeah, the woke run um. And then when
Speaker 1: you heard that watching and then that a bunch of
Speaker 1: fire blue on the screen, followed by the logo Dragons,
Speaker 1: Monsters and men, Dragons earlier challenges, Monsters and the Demons.
Speaker 1: You have to Slane, it's like you've spent dozens of
Speaker 1: hours watching Dr Jordan Peterson talking about his ideas. It's
Speaker 1: just like it was basic symbolism and ship. All right,
Speaker 1: yeah it is, it is, Cody. It is kind of
Speaker 1: I think Jordan Peterson would have been a really inspirational,
Speaker 1: like sixth grade creative writing teacher. I've always thought, like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: go out write a book, not your weird books, a
Speaker 1: fiction book, and like use all your ideas and your
Speaker 1: archetypes and your symbolism and and say a story that
Speaker 1: you think should be told with all those ideas, and
Speaker 1: then maybe people will finally see the uh what you believe?
Speaker 1: I think something different is going to happen, Cody. So
Speaker 1: the episode one is titled What Makes a Man? And
Speaker 1: once the title crawl finishes, were presented with Jordan Peterson
Speaker 1: wearing a nice fitted blue suit and sitting in a
Speaker 1: leather armchair in a library. There's a large, like hour
Speaker 1: glass style clock that's about four ft behind him. And
Speaker 1: what's interesting to me is how all the production value
Speaker 1: and intensity they've tried to build up at the start
Speaker 1: of the s episode dissipates the instant Jordan starts talking
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna have Sophie quickplay to display that I can't.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I love you. There are multiple let's say,
Speaker 1: competence and authority, multiple especially in a sophisticated society, and
Speaker 1: so you're fortunate if you're good at one or two things.
Speaker 1: Most of the ways you could be competent and generous,
Speaker 1: you're just not that good at So first of all,
Speaker 1: I would say, don't be too disheartened, especially if you're
Speaker 1: so listeners. What's just happened on screen is that obviously
Speaker 1: you can hear him talking, it's just him sitting in
Speaker 1: the chair, and after like twenty seconds, the screen splits
Speaker 1: and we watch a close up of his face next
Speaker 1: to a slightly further outshot of his face, both at
Speaker 1: the same time really off putting and disconcerting. It's because
Speaker 1: they know, they know what they've done. It's really threw
Speaker 1: They threw god knows how much money at this guy,
Speaker 1: like millions of dollars. I probably millions of a lot
Speaker 1: of Like they're just that's why he literally said this
Speaker 1: out loud and one of his videos like, yeah, they
Speaker 1: gave me a lot of money. Uh, and more power
Speaker 1: to him go for it. But so they know they've done.
Speaker 1: But ultimately and the Daily Wire Plus wants to be
Speaker 1: the programming like they wanted anti woke, like the TV
Speaker 1: that you don't get on HBO, which we secretly love
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Um, And so they've throw this
Speaker 1: money at it. But ultimately what they bought was Jordan
Speaker 1: Peterson doing his lectures, which is just a guy on stage.
Speaker 1: That's it. So they have to make it seem somewhat
Speaker 1: like cinematic or exciting or visually interesting at all. And
Speaker 1: so they have two campus follow him and do a
Speaker 1: splitz Cody, Cody, I'm gonna give you a spoiler. At
Speaker 1: a certain point, there's going to be three. Yeah, It's
Speaker 1: like I was like waiting at a certain point. They
Speaker 1: do like re enactments are like they feel like third
Speaker 1: It is never anything but Jordan Peterson on screen. Okay,
Speaker 1: here's here's here's okay, here's my slight feedback here. So
Speaker 1: he's worked very hard, Like the hair is perfectly slicked back,
Speaker 1: he's chosen you know, the coat. Why is his tie crooked?
Speaker 1: And why is his shirt wrinkled? Two notes those were
Speaker 1: my clearly tried super hard to have this like put
Speaker 1: together image. But yet your shirt is wrinkled and your
Speaker 1: tie is crooked. What is happening? Also, what is that tie?
Speaker 1: They didn't say, I don't want to shakes and possibly
Speaker 1: the Benzo. I just gotta say it's the Benz s
Speaker 1: I wear a very crumpled suit and tie on my show.
Speaker 1: I do not own a suit or tie on purpose.
Speaker 1: But fabulous. Well, like he seems seems like the kind
Speaker 1: of guy who would be like, well, no, iron, my
Speaker 1: shirt's before my my my big show. My nicest outfit
Speaker 1: is an open hoodie with a Bart Simpson Gulf War
Speaker 1: commemorative T shirt. I mean it's spells Saddam huss saying Huskin,
Speaker 1: He's like put a lot of effort into it. Like
Speaker 1: he's gone through the trouble of calling up Gavin Nusup
Speaker 1: and being like what Harold jail do you use and
Speaker 1: using all the hair gel and but yet crooked tie,
Speaker 1: wrinkled shirt. Just very interesting to note. Shall we continue?
Speaker 1: Roberts also, Sophie, real quick, get used to the hands.
Speaker 1: He stop doing the little magic fingers. He loves the
Speaker 1: little magic fingers. Money as I'm sure they're spending on this,
Speaker 1: and for all the production value that existed in the
Speaker 1: first twenty eight seconds, which is going to be the
Speaker 1: most exciting thing we see today. Uh, it's I think
Speaker 1: the episodes. I don't even think there's scripts to these,
Speaker 1: Like you said, it's just like they filmed a lecture.
Speaker 1: This isn't I've seen his lectures and they are normally
Speaker 1: like he's wrong about things, but he knows how to
Speaker 1: give a competent lecture right where he like builds to
Speaker 1: a point and yeah, there's a journeys an impact on
Speaker 1: the audience. That's why he's been successful. That's not what
Speaker 1: we're having here. There's no nothing he's building to. He
Speaker 1: is just sitting in a chair and kind of talking
Speaker 1: almost aimlessly. Um yeah, I want just listen, listen to this.
Speaker 1: I will so my prediction. So this seems like what
Speaker 1: you're describing is uh, like you know, you've you've written
Speaker 1: a lot about him. I recently released a three hour
Speaker 1: video about him. Uh. In doing so, you have to
Speaker 1: watch a lot of YouTube videos of him. Uh. And
Speaker 1: in doing that, your algorithm gets completely fucked um. And
Speaker 1: so if you're like scrolling like YouTube shorts or something,
Speaker 1: here's like, oh, here's this fifty second clip of Jordan
Speaker 1: Peterson on a podcast, rambling about whatever. And it seems
Speaker 1: like that's what this experience will be, just like scrolling
Speaker 1: through these like fifty second clips of him like random
Speaker 1: thought about this, I can say this about monsters and
Speaker 1: then just sort of like yeah, yeah, they just kind
Speaker 1: of sat down and let him go. And you can
Speaker 1: kind of see in the editing and then gradually how
Speaker 1: the off screen questions are kind of directing him that
Speaker 1: I think they recognized that made a mistake about ten
Speaker 1: minutes into this. But I want to play you the
Speaker 1: next set of clips here. Sorry. What should I do?
Speaker 1: And part of the problem is the question what should
Speaker 1: I do with my life is not a very good
Speaker 1: question because it's sort of like tell me about everything.
Speaker 1: It's just too much what do you do in your life?
Speaker 1: Will you say you do many things. Okay, what are
Speaker 1: those things? Because I don't know what to do? What
Speaker 1: other people that appear to give their lives significance and meaning?
Speaker 1: And this is bears on the issue of responsibility. Well,
Speaker 1: most people want to have or do have an intimate partner.
Speaker 1: So if you don't have split see his hands, we
Speaker 1: don't work on that by going to find the person
Speaker 1: that's right for you. It's like, who the hell are you?
Speaker 1: And what makes you think that even if you found
Speaker 1: the person that was right for you, they wouldn't take
Speaker 1: one look at you and runaway screaming I'm gonna talk
Speaker 1: like this. I can't he just because he's he's like
Speaker 1: circling really banal advice, like he can't get in the
Speaker 1: In the roughly a minute that we played fifty seconds,
Speaker 1: the actual point he has made is that like, life
Speaker 1: includes a lot of things, and it's you shouldn't try
Speaker 1: to find someone to fall in love with, right, Like
Speaker 1: life is complicated, you gotta narrow it down your goals
Speaker 1: and like but like the point he's the broader point
Speaker 1: he's making is that like young men shouldn't seek to
Speaker 1: find someone to complete them, they should become the person
Speaker 1: that like is you know, which is fine advice. That's
Speaker 1: good advice on yourself, right of at the same time,
Speaker 1: because also he talks like really contradictory too, because he's
Speaker 1: saying it as if like, well, why do wanna like
Speaker 1: get find so an intimate intimate partner? Uh, who's like
Speaker 1: right for you? Well, what makes you think that they're
Speaker 1: gonna like you? So, like he's talking about it in
Speaker 1: this dismissive way where it's like, don't even try. And
Speaker 1: then he's coming back to you need to work on
Speaker 1: yourself before you do that in order to what Because
Speaker 1: ultimately what he's saying is work on yourself in order
Speaker 1: to be of value to a partner. So he's still
Speaker 1: encouraging this end goal. He's just saying like, yeah, takes
Speaker 1: some time, and do work on yourself. It's just such
Speaker 1: a weird way to to say these things. It's it's
Speaker 1: it's pointlessly long and and after meandering for a little
Speaker 1: while longer, Peterson announces that the primary thing that young
Speaker 1: men have going for them is youth and possibility, which
Speaker 1: is what sets them apart from the olds who have
Speaker 1: money and the ability to wear nice suits. While seated
Speaker 1: in a library funded by oil and gas billionaire investments,
Speaker 1: but don't have as much energy or as much time.
Speaker 1: Peterson makes the claim that if you're young and poor,
Speaker 1: you still have an unbelievable source of wealth because you're young,
Speaker 1: and obviously no one would change being young for being
Speaker 1: decrepit and rich. Now, this seems to ignore that an
Speaker 1: awful lot of rich people are in excellent shape and
Speaker 1: stay that way for a long time because it's very
Speaker 1: easy to eat well and seek medical care. Money. I
Speaker 1: see good, good stuff, Jordan. He's done this before about
Speaker 1: like wealth and stuff, where it's like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: everybody has problems. You know, it's not richer, you're richer,
Speaker 1: your poor. You know you're richer poor. You know everybody
Speaker 1: gets sick. It's like, yeah, but but how do you
Speaker 1: what do you do if you get sick? And what
Speaker 1: you do if you get sick and you're and you're rich.
Speaker 1: Like it's so it's like people looking at Kanu, who
Speaker 1: is like pushing sixty and being like, wow, he looks incredible,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure Kanu reeves. The first thing he would
Speaker 1: say is yeah, because I have tens of millions of dollars. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: It's like a video of h Rob Mac describing his
Speaker 1: how he got in shape. It's like, yeah, it's impossible.
Speaker 1: If you have unlimited money, then it's very you don't
Speaker 1: spend time with anybody and you have to do Yeah. Silly, um,
Speaker 1: very silly. Now, most of what Peterson is trying to
Speaker 1: get out here is like his normal twelve Rules for
Speaker 1: life ship just not at all very well organized. Um.
Speaker 1: And it's certainly not yet offensive advice, although he's ignoring
Speaker 1: things in a way that is kind of offensive. But
Speaker 1: it's true that if you're young and healthy, that is
Speaker 1: worth a lot. Right, Youth and health are are very
Speaker 1: valuable things. Time is valuable, of course. Like again, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like this thing he does where it's like what
Speaker 1: you're saying, like if you shave everything away. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a fine point that a lot of people make on
Speaker 1: everywhere and art exactly. But he's houses it and it's
Speaker 1: like monsters and dragons and men. It's like, well, you're
Speaker 1: just sitting in it. He said nothing. Nothing that he
Speaker 1: said that's right, is something you couldn't find on the
Speaker 1: wall of an Airbnb in Glndale, California. Exactly. Um, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And it's it's funny. But as he starts at this
Speaker 1: like very basic point that like yes, health, youth and
Speaker 1: and health are are are valuable. But like a lot
Speaker 1: of his platitudes in this episode, it starts to spin
Speaker 1: out like tires losing traction and muney and it's very
Speaker 1: funny to listen to. So I'm gonna have you play
Speaker 1: this next clip. Are you good at anything? And if
Speaker 1: fancier that is, no, Well how about you start practicing
Speaker 1: being good at something? Pick one thing? Well? What well,
Speaker 1: not nothing? Pick something? Maybe it's a video game? Surely
Speaker 1: sage advice. Dr Peterson talk like a guy who's ever
Speaker 1: talked to a person before. This is also and I
Speaker 1: have to say this is and I'll probably have to
Speaker 1: point this out every thirty seconds. This is something he
Speaker 1: says all the time in every interview he's ever been
Speaker 1: in being asked about advice for people. Uh this like
Speaker 1: pick something and do it. I've heard it different times
Speaker 1: in ninety different interviews in ninety different like Alpha Brain
Speaker 1: Academy clip on YouTube. Why did they give this guy
Speaker 1: so much money for this show? Yes, acquiring skills is
Speaker 1: useful in life. It's just like yeah. So he goes
Speaker 1: on to say that getting good at anything helps you
Speaker 1: learn how to get good at other things, which is true,
Speaker 1: but not in a way that really means anything, Like
Speaker 1: if you get good at a video game, which he
Speaker 1: actually suggests here, that probably won't actually help you get
Speaker 1: good at endurance running, even though you could like boil
Speaker 1: it down and be like, we'll both require you to
Speaker 1: do something over and over again until you get better
Speaker 1: at it. But like playing video games is pleasurable and
Speaker 1: physically not difficult on your body, whereas distance running is
Speaker 1: really difficult on your body and makes you uncomfortable for
Speaker 1: extended periods of time. And so the fact that you
Speaker 1: got good at a video game probably won't help you
Speaker 1: with your endurance running. Not that there aren't people who
Speaker 1: are good at both, but the fact that like skills
Speaker 1: are not universally applicant, right one doesn't necessarily lead to
Speaker 1: the other. And like running, you know, running might make
Speaker 1: you better at a video game because like exercise, like
Speaker 1: is good for your brain and like your focus and
Speaker 1: attention and things, and that's what you need when you
Speaker 1: play a video game. If you play a video game,
Speaker 1: it might help you with like pattern recognition and certain
Speaker 1: things like that. Um, But like you can't just like
Speaker 1: pick two things and say do this and you'll get
Speaker 1: better at the other. It's yeah, it's also like I
Speaker 1: think there's actually a fundamental flaw in the logic that
Speaker 1: like learning how to get good at one thing means
Speaker 1: you'll get good at other things. Because it's a general
Speaker 1: rule the things that people get best at first do
Speaker 1: the things that they're like inclined towards because of basic interest,
Speaker 1: and an awful lot of actual success is getting good
Speaker 1: at things that you're not inclined to. But you need
Speaker 1: to build up some level of competence and because like
Speaker 1: a lot of life is just kind of unpleasant, um,
Speaker 1: and got to do things you don't like and get
Speaker 1: good at them so you can do them well and
Speaker 1: get them over with Exactly, Like if if you love basketball, um,
Speaker 1: and you hate numbers, the fact that the skills that
Speaker 1: made you good at basketball might not make you good
Speaker 1: at paying your taxes, which is why people who become
Speaker 1: professional sports players generally higher professional accountants. Right yea, um,
Speaker 1: but whatever, anyway, continue Jordan Peterson. So the next thing
Speaker 1: he goes into is he talks about how he when
Speaker 1: he was a young man, the thing that he became
Speaker 1: good at first was washing dishes um, which I don't
Speaker 1: know that he actually did this, but he's claiming this
Speaker 1: because it makes him seem like a man of the
Speaker 1: people he has. I am not certain he ever did
Speaker 1: this job, but a lot of people do. So let's
Speaker 1: just hear him out. And so what else do you
Speaker 1: have to do to be a good dishwasher? Learn the techniques,
Speaker 1: stay on stay on your toes, Volunteer to work when
Speaker 1: other people don't show up, um, show an interest in
Speaker 1: learning to cook, get along with the waitresses, maybe, get
Speaker 1: along with the customers, act like an adult, and all
Speaker 1: of that's excellent practice for all sorts of things you're
Speaker 1: gonna do later. Now, this is Cody. Do you know why, however?
Speaker 1: Why I have you known a lot of people who
Speaker 1: did dishwashing specifically, not just like their job included dishwashing,
Speaker 1: but like people who's who's like I've worked in restaurants
Speaker 1: and like I've I've done dishwashing, and I've known many
Speaker 1: dishwashers at the jobs going back, Is it not? Would
Speaker 1: you say generally accepted as good advice that you keep
Speaker 1: the dishwashers the funk away from the customers. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we don't need that. But also you keep
Speaker 1: the dishwashers happy and like you like, it's just it's
Speaker 1: like chefs. You don't want the chef. You can talk
Speaker 1: to the you go in the room, you get sweaty,
Speaker 1: you turn on your music. Whatever. It is a lot
Speaker 1: of cocaine in the bathroom, like it's fine. Um, I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's also like it's like not like it
Speaker 1: depends on the restaurant too, you know. Yeah, there there's
Speaker 1: like like very friendly like customer relations between like workers
Speaker 1: and customers. That's fine. Um, it's a weird thing to
Speaker 1: PLoP in there. I think he's just trying to he's
Speaker 1: trying to give He's trying to give general life advice
Speaker 1: which he always does that everybody could give, and make
Speaker 1: it specific to this one example, which is what he
Speaker 1: does all the time. Right, He's like, yeah, it's good
Speaker 1: to like get to know this person and this type
Speaker 1: of person and go out in the world and do this.
Speaker 1: And he's just using dish washing and as an example. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's generally using it as an example and I mean
Speaker 1: as agit like yeah, whatever, I don't think want to
Speaker 1: talk to the customers like part A big part of
Speaker 1: managing any successful enterprise where there are customers is limiting
Speaker 1: who has to deal with customers, because that's the thing
Speaker 1: that sucks the most, right because they're the worst people
Speaker 1: in the world. Um, like the the last person like you.
Speaker 1: You you want as many people as possible to not
Speaker 1: have to talk to the customers directly because those yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: um and I just well, so quick note, if we're
Speaker 1: if listeners, If if we're listening to a clip and
Speaker 1: suddenly you hear like a snicker or a laugh faw
Speaker 1: a little shortle uh, it might be because of what
Speaker 1: he's saying. If you think what he's saying is funny,
Speaker 1: it's probably because they just did the split screen thing again,
Speaker 1: and it's so jarring and off putting, and it surprises
Speaker 1: me every time because why are they doing it. It's
Speaker 1: so weird. It seems like they're doing it at random.
Speaker 1: There's no rhyme or reason to it. It's just like, well,
Speaker 1: we need to do the split screen thing again, and
Speaker 1: I can't wait for it to be three Peterson's on
Speaker 1: screen at once now, Cody. A lot of evidence shows
Speaker 1: that of all of the jobs in the United States,
Speaker 1: the highest level of substance abuse is pretty much working
Speaker 1: in a restaurant, particularly like working in the back of
Speaker 1: a restaurant, like those are as as uh, Anthony Bourdain
Speaker 1: very very eloquently wrote about, Like that's just a pretty
Speaker 1: durable fact. And yeah, I think front of the restaurant
Speaker 1: is cocaine. Back of the restaurant is all drugs. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna be honest with you. The only reason
Speaker 1: I might believe that Jordan Peterson did what he said
Speaker 1: and he claims he went from being a dishwasher to
Speaker 1: a short order cook, is that I can't imagine him
Speaker 1: sitting in the back of a restaurant doing lines of
Speaker 1: a variety of benzos and stimulants and you know whatever,
Speaker 1: whatever he could get his hands on. Look at the man,
Speaker 1: Look at that Look at that shirt. Tell me tell
Speaker 1: me that man hasn't tried to straighten the lines in
Speaker 1: a rain naked painting. I can't tell you that. Uh,
Speaker 1: good guy, Dr Jordan Peterson. Um. Anyway, he's on the
Speaker 1: verge of sounding like a normal person here until we
Speaker 1: get to this line. You know it's not intellectual work
Speaker 1: and that you're not dealing with abstractions, although it can
Speaker 1: still be complex. That's why we don't have dishwashing robots.
Speaker 1: By the way, now, quick quiz good sir, Do we
Speaker 1: in fact have dishwashing robots? Yeah? I feel like maybe
Speaker 1: if you just cut off the word robot. Yeah, we stopped.
Speaker 1: We didn't use the word robot for it. But we
Speaker 1: have washing machines, and I feel like everyone listening has
Speaker 1: a machine that washes dishes. Um, you know, not all
Speaker 1: places have dishwashers, but everybody knows they exist. Yeah. Again,
Speaker 1: obviously the point he's making is that like, yeah, if
Speaker 1: you're even with all that machines can do, if you're
Speaker 1: like running a professional restaurant, you're going to have someone
Speaker 1: whose job is keeping the dishes clean because machines can't
Speaker 1: do everything right. And like sometimes you run the dishwasher
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, the dishwasher didn't work. I got
Speaker 1: to use my human hands that have certain ways they
Speaker 1: can move and they can get in there and clean that.
Speaker 1: It's so funny because like the most famous labor saving
Speaker 1: device on the planet is dishwashers. Like it's it's it
Speaker 1: says if if you know, if we didn't know that
Speaker 1: clearly Game of Thrones fan, if it was like the
Speaker 1: only TV show this man has seen as the Jetsons
Speaker 1: and keeps facing everything off of Rosie the Robot. I
Speaker 1: mean it's like there's there's flint Stones and then there's Jetsons,
Speaker 1: and there's like nothing in between. Yeah, there's nothing in between.
Speaker 1: But even like dishwashing, like what birds and stuff? Right,
Speaker 1: they should have called this show flint Stone Jetson's and
Speaker 1: Scooby Doo and Scooby Doos or I guess to dragon tails.
Speaker 1: If we ever get that big x on sponsorship to
Speaker 1: fund this podcast and I've become a millionaire, I'm going
Speaker 1: to pay Jordan Peterson of Fortune to watch old episodes
Speaker 1: of the of Scooby Doo where they have the Harlem
Speaker 1: Globe Trotters on and like weep over the union profundity
Speaker 1: of of Sweet Sweet Kyle sweet Lyle whatever his name was. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's a waste of money. He'll do that for free.
Speaker 1: He'll do that for free. Peterson, what do you think
Speaker 1: about the time the Harlem Globe Trotters solved the mystery
Speaker 1: of old Man McGregor's haunted air B and B. I
Speaker 1: don't know, whatever does nothing right. He's this sort of
Speaker 1: this dragon inside you, and you have to you unmask
Speaker 1: getting it turns out it's yourself, because we are all
Speaker 1: our own dragons. This font is diet much better on
Speaker 1: do Le. What an awful fun they chose. It's a
Speaker 1: step above um, it's a step above Paprius, but not much,
Speaker 1: not really. I'm sorry, what did you just call that?
Speaker 1: Thank you? Thank you? Sorry, it's sorry. What what did
Speaker 1: you referring to the Papyrus fun? I don't even think
Speaker 1: this is a step above that, though. It's we got
Speaker 1: these weird like cuts in it. It's like it's trying
Speaker 1: to seem like very like royal, but also has like
Speaker 1: a weird slime thing going to it, right, and the
Speaker 1: slime is for the curves of only season and it's
Speaker 1: like a little slug. Yeah, I don't there's some slime
Speaker 1: to it, but it's not like that exciting to listen
Speaker 1: to people describe. But yeah, this is the one. The
Speaker 1: e is too cleasy, easy to mistake for an f
Speaker 1: at distance. Anyway, whatever, fuck this font is time for
Speaker 1: you to do an ad break. You know who will
Speaker 1: fuck a faont oh, for sure, they'll get their dick
Speaker 1: right in there. In fact, every time you buy one
Speaker 1: of the products sponsored on this show. Our sponsors purchase
Speaker 1: irreplaceable ancient Egyptian papyrus and then have sex with it.
Speaker 1: That's a guarantee. So glad you learned how to pronounce
Speaker 1: that word. With every purchase you make, irreplaceable human knowledge
Speaker 1: is lost forever. We promise that and nothing else. I
Speaker 1: hope it's another gold ad me too. Ah, we're back boy.
Speaker 1: I sure feel like the Library of Alexandria was just
Speaker 1: burned for my my own sexual gratify occasion. How about you, Cody?
Speaker 1: I was going to describe it exactly like that. Wow, Wow,
Speaker 1: we're We're It's like we're united by epigenetic collective unconsciousness.
Speaker 1: That's where this all ends anyway. Whatever. Um oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we believe everything Jordan believe. After Peterson goes on another
Speaker 1: vamps for a little while, uh, he says very little
Speaker 1: of substance and mostly just asks rhetorical questions about self improvement,
Speaker 1: stuff like can you improve your relationship with your father?
Speaker 1: Can you educate yourself? And then we get this very
Speaker 1: odd moment. Yeah, the draw of temptation drug and alcohol use,
Speaker 1: in particular sexual temptation as well. Do you do anything
Speaker 1: that's remote Oh, Cody, how would you describe that little
Speaker 1: play that again? So you describe that that that little
Speaker 1: moment when he says, oh, he does this like it's
Speaker 1: almost like a computer buffering like his his. The thing
Speaker 1: that he said just sort of like caused a a
Speaker 1: fucking hard drive skip in his little bread all right,
Speaker 1: one more time. The draw of temptation, drug and alcohol use,
Speaker 1: in particular sexual temptation as well. Do you do anything
Speaker 1: that's like he liked? He says? He says sexual patient
Speaker 1: and then casts his eyes down. There's almost a little
Speaker 1: shiver across his body as he goes, Oh, it's very weird,
Speaker 1: he says an odd speaker. I mean, I'm sure it's
Speaker 1: made him millions of dollars because there is something that
Speaker 1: like you just I spent too long watching this and
Speaker 1: just go the fuck is what are you doing? What
Speaker 1: are you trying to get across here? It's cryptic um anyway,
Speaker 1: So how he does it? So what does he land on?
Speaker 1: Can you resist temptation or not? He never really finishes.
Speaker 1: He just glitches, and then from this point he starts
Speaker 1: to get angrier and almost abusive. Yes, oh he's doing it.
Speaker 1: Remember melitical party do you go to church. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't go to church because you know, uh, there,
Speaker 1: believes don't match. It's like, who the hell cares about
Speaker 1: your beliefs. You're like sixty, you don't even have beliefs.
Speaker 1: And if you think it's like, you're right in that
Speaker 1: and the Catholic church is wrong, well good luck without attitude.
Speaker 1: And church example, or political party doesn't need repair because
Speaker 1: all institutions are always falling apart, in corrupt. That's that's
Speaker 1: a story as old as time. That's the evil uncle.
Speaker 1: But good time to fix it up. Wait a second, wait,
Speaker 1: did you say fix it up? Go fix it up?
Speaker 1: I thought you were not allowed to do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well this is exactly. None of this makes any sense
Speaker 1: because number one, are you saying that like people should
Speaker 1: just like you, you have to join a church, which
Speaker 1: he's clearly saying, but also you shouldn't criticize it. But
Speaker 1: also instead of leaving it, if it doesn't match with
Speaker 1: your beliefs, you should change it. But also you don't
Speaker 1: have beliefs, so and it's like, okay, if you disagree,
Speaker 1: don't what are you going to change it to because
Speaker 1: you don't believe anything? And what are you saying people
Speaker 1: should do. Are you saying that like they should all
Speaker 1: become Catholics or or that you should just join whatever
Speaker 1: church's closest and not question it, but fix it if
Speaker 1: it doesn't align with your beliefs. But you can't have
Speaker 1: beliefs yet because you're just a kid. It's um, it's nonsense.
Speaker 1: It's not like it's it's it's just like, there's nothing
Speaker 1: useful in that mess of what a contradicts of all
Speaker 1: of all of the things to pick as an organization
Speaker 1: that you shouldn't criticize the Catholic It's not incredible. Thanks
Speaker 1: Jordan's um I I. I also love his It's one
Speaker 1: of his ticks where he he like says a thing
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's like some ridiculous statements. Sometimes it's a
Speaker 1: completely reasonable thing, and he's like, well, you know, good
Speaker 1: luck with that. He just sort of like dismisses it
Speaker 1: as though like that's the argument. For example, it seems
Speaker 1: like after the Catholic Church system eickily sexually trafficked and
Speaker 1: abused children and pushed for theocratic laws in Ireland that
Speaker 1: got huge numbers of women killed and maimed as a
Speaker 1: result of things like a topic pregnancies. Irish people in
Speaker 1: very large numbers left the church and things are better. Well,
Speaker 1: you know that's the evil uncle, right right, The evil
Speaker 1: uncle is the uncle the Catholic priest. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: not far off, but like, so when do you because
Speaker 1: his whole thing is like don't are you? So you're like,
Speaker 1: you're sixteen, you have no beliefs, and so go to
Speaker 1: any church and if it disagrees with you, then you
Speaker 1: should change it. But also you're not allowed to want
Speaker 1: to change anything unless you're like life is perfect and
Speaker 1: like in perfect order, so you're it's not yet because
Speaker 1: you're sixteen, So like, don't do if anything, don't leave
Speaker 1: your house, I guess, but to go to church you
Speaker 1: don't believe in consistently frustrating to me about Peterson is
Speaker 1: he does it like dropped, like the evil uncle, and
Speaker 1: he does it in such a way as he's like
Speaker 1: he's trying to impress you with by naming these archetypes
Speaker 1: and like referencing the exactly and it's there's for an
Speaker 1: example of kind of like how to do this and
Speaker 1: not be a complete I don't know, some people will
Speaker 1: disagree with this, but like what he's doing is not
Speaker 1: fundamentally all that different if you sit down and listen
Speaker 1: to Dan Harmon talk about like the story circle, which
Speaker 1: is basically him taking the fucking hero's journey and putting
Speaker 1: it into a way that you can pretty easily turn
Speaker 1: into scripts. Right, that's all it is. It's not distills
Speaker 1: it down to six steps, eight steps. Dan Harmon plenty
Speaker 1: of things to criticize about the man, but all he's
Speaker 1: actually he's not trying to say there's any sort of
Speaker 1: like psychic resonance with that. He's being like, this is
Speaker 1: a very simple, replicable way to tell a story in
Speaker 1: a way that that people can can grasp onto. Right,
Speaker 1: there's a reason and people like stories that have this.
Speaker 1: You know, you do the thing, you change and then yeah,
Speaker 1: Peterson is that rather than the evil uncle just like
Speaker 1: being a thing that's in some movies and TV shows
Speaker 1: because it's easy, I don't know, it's something that people
Speaker 1: tend to like grasp onto. Um, it's just kind of
Speaker 1: an easy way to to to tell a story, right,
Speaker 1: Like it's scar in the in the Lion King. It's
Speaker 1: not a complex story. There's not a ton going on there,
Speaker 1: but it works. And like, but Peterson is taking it
Speaker 1: as if and because this is like a trope that
Speaker 1: is broadly functional in storytelling, that is meant for a
Speaker 1: popular audience, it is indicative of something fundamental to human nature,
Speaker 1: right as opposed to like, you know, first of all,
Speaker 1: if you see a pattern, were we humans love to
Speaker 1: see patterns, and we put undo emphasis and importance on
Speaker 1: patterns even if they're it's not like a significant pattern.
Speaker 1: But like what he's talking about most of the time
Speaker 1: in this respect is like just stereotypes. Like if you
Speaker 1: take like you said, like the lion king or Hamlet
Speaker 1: or whatever. So Scar the evil uncle, if Scar had
Speaker 1: a kid, Mufasa the kind uncle archetype, Like it's literally
Speaker 1: like it's just these interchangeable things the qualities described in
Speaker 1: like he's like the crone making a man and you
Speaker 1: change the name and it's like, I don't know, ye,
Speaker 1: all all of this can work, and it's like helpful
Speaker 1: for people in situation. Like certainly, like like all of
Speaker 1: these archetypes that he treats as if they're like something
Speaker 1: sacred written into the back of the human soul are
Speaker 1: just shortcuts to like very easily putting together a fucking
Speaker 1: script for like a popular like specifically for a popular
Speaker 1: fucking movie that's like most of the modern adaptations of
Speaker 1: this ship like it's not none of this is like,
Speaker 1: none of this is particularly resonant. And you can tell
Speaker 1: that for a fact that the stories that are like
Speaker 1: most popular are often the ones that that break some
Speaker 1: of these rules. Like they're not actually fundamental to good storytelling.
Speaker 1: They're just simple. Yeah, yeah, it's not. It's not necessarily
Speaker 1: going to be the most compelling or interesting story if
Speaker 1: you use all these archetypes or this like pattern, because
Speaker 1: it's most stories their training wheels, their training wheels. If
Speaker 1: you're starting out reading writing stories, or if you're getting
Speaker 1: lost in the weeds, it can be an easy way
Speaker 1: to like get something put together and then you can
Speaker 1: do a better thing next time. Um, but I don't
Speaker 1: know whatever. I get frustrated when people talk about fucking
Speaker 1: archetypes like this. Well, so when you're talking about like
Speaker 1: this and like applying it to like like fundamental like
Speaker 1: institutions and elements of society, where it's like, these are
Speaker 1: different conversations because like fucking the evil uncle is a
Speaker 1: bad guy in a script because the script needs a
Speaker 1: bad guy, because conflict is fun. The Catholic Church is
Speaker 1: bad because they raped a bunch of kids and covered
Speaker 1: it up. And that's a reason why maybe you would
Speaker 1: not believe anything else they have to say, right, Like,
Speaker 1: maybe it stems from certain aspects of their like core beliefs.
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly. Yeah, maybe there's fundamental things about
Speaker 1: the structure of an organization like the Catholic Church that
Speaker 1: are abusive. But Jordan Peterson fucking loves hierarchy, right and
Speaker 1: just like in the inevitability of everything, right Like, Anyway,
Speaker 1: if an institution is corrupt, it's because all institutions become corrupt.
Speaker 1: Like ultimately, Um, it's not a problem with anything about
Speaker 1: the institution. It is. Yes, it's corruption that that happens,
Speaker 1: except for in my institutions that I like. So the
Speaker 1: next session of the video asked Peterson to define what
Speaker 1: makes a man? And this is the first point at
Speaker 1: which I think someone like put together, Like maybe after
Speaker 1: the first ten minutes of this were recorded, which probably
Speaker 1: took three days, somebody like jotted down some fucking notes
Speaker 1: into something resembling a script to try to put a
Speaker 1: scaffolding on this motherfucker. Here we go. Yeah, definition, man, Ah,
Speaker 1: why don't I a biologist, but as it happens, I
Speaker 1: am a biologist. So no you're not. No, no you
Speaker 1: no you're not. I felt like you reaction to that
Speaker 1: he is absolutely not a fucking biologist. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: you can say that you like I like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: A scientists strong a physicist wouldn't say I'm a biologist
Speaker 1: because you like know a lot about biology. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's very frustrating because like, yes, theoretically, like he has
Speaker 1: a PhD in clinical psychology, there are clinical psychologists who
Speaker 1: do biology right, because some of them are do neuroscience right,
Speaker 1: elements of it exactly biology. But that's not what he does.
Speaker 1: That's not what he does, and that's not that's just
Speaker 1: not how people in the scientific community talk. Like he
Speaker 1: says this about everything like it's if you it's funny
Speaker 1: he would say, Like he would say, if he's describing, like, um,
Speaker 1: what the Parado principle as, like it relates to black
Speaker 1: holes or whatever, he would literally say, I'm an astrophysicist.
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, no. You maybe you know about
Speaker 1: astrophysics and you have like knowledge in that field, but no,
Speaker 1: like actual like reasonable like respectable scientists would just make
Speaker 1: a claim like that. There's you go on in in
Speaker 1: your three hour video of about Dr Jordan Peterson about
Speaker 1: how he's fundamentally wrong about lobsters and the ship he
Speaker 1: says about like narrow transmitters and lobsters. He's wrong about
Speaker 1: a lot of important things, including that time he went
Speaker 1: cold turkey off of benzos by going to some weird
Speaker 1: clinic in Russia and nearly got himself killed. Um, but
Speaker 1: I want to stick to stuff that he claims that
Speaker 1: he makes in the video to prove that he's If
Speaker 1: he is a biologist, he's a realist. Let's see, let's life.
Speaker 1: You are so yeah, I I want to sorry. I
Speaker 1: just have to like give him a little like in
Speaker 1: good faith, you know, reasonable doubt. Some people's talk in
Speaker 1: this way, like what you're saying, you're not saying. I'm
Speaker 1: a biologist, just like I believe in biology. I have
Speaker 1: knowledge of it, and I approach things from a biologist perspective,
Speaker 1: is what he's trying to say. But that, but he
Speaker 1: wasn't precise. He's at all precise in his speech, and
Speaker 1: he's also about to be really wrong because after this
Speaker 1: he goes on a little rant about how some people
Speaker 1: are charitable, but they're not hard working or practical, so
Speaker 1: they just wind up giving away other people's money and
Speaker 1: that's bad. Um. What he's he says that the ideal
Speaker 1: thing to be the essence of masculinity. In fact, this
Speaker 1: is what he because he's again the section is where
Speaker 1: he's trying to define a man. He says that the
Speaker 1: essence of masculinity is productive generosity, which seems to he
Speaker 1: seems to define as actually being a dick um because
Speaker 1: he doesn't think that like generosity means being good to people.
Speaker 1: He thinks it's like it's this weirder concept about how
Speaker 1: well sometimes generosity is like being mean and withholding resources
Speaker 1: from people who are going to to squander them, right. Um.
Speaker 1: And as he's doing this, he attacks the concept of agreeableness.
Speaker 1: And I want to play you this this part of
Speaker 1: the episode, Cody, because this is we can nail it
Speaker 1: to some science here. Yeah, we get into it. Basically,
Speaker 1: an empathy dimension has no correlation whatsoever with success in
Speaker 1: enterprise business creative domains. In fact, among managers, agreeableness looks
Speaker 1: like it's slightly negatively correlated with success because hyper agreeable
Speaker 1: managers can't say no. They can't discipline their employees, they
Speaker 1: can't send limits, and they're susceptible to manipulation. So well, Cody,
Speaker 1: that sounds like something that's falsifiable, right, That is a
Speaker 1: that is a true or or false statement that he
Speaker 1: just made. We can actually dig into research, it seems
Speaker 1: like yeah, and it turns out we're really lucky here.
Speaker 1: There was a massive meta analysis of studies published on
Speaker 1: quote agreeable nous on it and its consequences just this year.
Speaker 1: Researchers Michael Wilmot and Dennis Ones analyzed studies in folving
Speaker 1: one point nine million participants, So pretty big meta analysis, right.
Speaker 1: They concluded quote overall, the the trait has effects in
Speaker 1: a desirable direction for ninety to variables. Professor Wilmot seemed
Speaker 1: adamant that not only is Peterson wrong about the value
Speaker 1: of agreeableness, he's specifically wrong about its impact on leaders.
Speaker 1: Quote Michael Wilmot, assistant professor of Management at the University
Speaker 1: of Arkansas, in a university release said, quote agreeableness is
Speaker 1: the personality trait primarily concerned with helping people and building
Speaker 1: positive relationships, which is not lost on organizational leaders. Taken altogether,
Speaker 1: the interaction among things became clear. Professor Wilmot concludes agreeableness
Speaker 1: was marked by work investment, but this energy was best
Speaker 1: acted at helping or cooperating with others, in other words, teamwork.
Speaker 1: So just he's exactly wrong and it took thirty seconds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they looked at these, like thousands of studies involving nearly
Speaker 1: two million people, and it turns out being agreeable really
Speaker 1: works well into teams. And I don't know, Cody, you
Speaker 1: and I have both worked on teams. You know what's
Speaker 1: great is not working with assholes? Oh yeah, we don't
Speaker 1: like that. It's not fun. Uh, it makes it unpleasant,
Speaker 1: and you don't like the One of the most important
Speaker 1: things in in particularly like uh comedy, like sketch comedy,
Speaker 1: whatever is like yes, and which is fundamentally being agreeable.
Speaker 1: It's not like trying to shut down a joke. It's
Speaker 1: trying to expand it. You know. It's a plus, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because that that works pretty well people people. It tends
Speaker 1: to make for things that are funny. Well, it's fascinating
Speaker 1: that people like working like people who aren't easy to
Speaker 1: work with. Yeah, I love this and I really appreciate
Speaker 1: that you instantly looked this up because he does this
Speaker 1: all the time. He'll say like, I've read the literature
Speaker 1: in this way, and then you look it up and
Speaker 1: it's not that way. Or he'll make these broad claims
Speaker 1: about these sort of things, and it's also stuff where
Speaker 1: it's like, you are are a psychologist, that is your field,
Speaker 1: and you're making these claims and I just looked it
Speaker 1: up and you're wrong. Um, it's alarming that this man
Speaker 1: is in this fine leather chair. It is, it is,
Speaker 1: and it is a nice looking leather chair. Library. Whoever
Speaker 1: they have directing putting the set decorations together, they made
Speaker 1: a They made a very welcoming looking library boy one
Speaker 1: million for the library for millions. I don't believe he's
Speaker 1: read any of those books, but it's a nice looking library.
Speaker 1: He skimmed them for a few words that he could
Speaker 1: say to reinforce his point. Yeah. So Jordan's view of
Speaker 1: masculinity doesn't leave much room for teamwork. It becomes quickly
Speaker 1: clear that he doesn't see management as a thing people
Speaker 1: do in specific instances to help groups accomplished tasks, and
Speaker 1: instead he sees management as how a healthy man looks
Speaker 1: at every relationship in his life. And I mean management
Speaker 1: the way that like a leader in an organization manages,
Speaker 1: and Sophie, let's play that next clip. And then you
Speaker 1: should be responsible for and productive for as many people
Speaker 1: as you can manage. And so that might be first
Speaker 1: your intimate partner, your wife, second year, your parents, your siblings,
Speaker 1: your your children, maybe your children primarily, although you know
Speaker 1: there's a tradeoff there with your wife, So the split screen,
Speaker 1: it's just every time. Next, he says that you should
Speaker 1: seek to manage your community and local government if it's
Speaker 1: possible at all, and it's become it's pretty clear. I
Speaker 1: think at this point that his version of masculinity is
Speaker 1: nothing but control, and it's a specific sort of control
Speaker 1: that's motivated by self hatred. And you get glimpses. I
Speaker 1: don't think Peterson is even really super aware of it,
Speaker 1: but you get glimpses of the centrality of self hatred
Speaker 1: to his concept of masculinity, and these little gaps and
Speaker 1: cracks like this one here go on all that responsibility
Speaker 1: if you can in a sense that's both productive and generous,
Speaker 1: that gives you something to do justify your miserable life
Speaker 1: to yourself and everyone else, and you need to do
Speaker 1: that um it. It orients you solidly in the world
Speaker 1: if you do that, and it gives you a dragon
Speaker 1: to fight, a real wood. And that's where the gold is.
Speaker 1: So as everyone has known forever. Oh my god, oh
Speaker 1: my god, oh my god, Robert, can we do an
Speaker 1: ad break right now, just so that there's a gold please?
Speaker 1: If you want to know where else the gold is,
Speaker 1: check out the sponsors to this podcast, which apparently include
Speaker 1: these this random gold scam company. Buy the gold and
Speaker 1: give it to a dragon so you can fight it,
Speaker 1: and then take the gold back and then it's yours again. Yeah, ah,
Speaker 1: we're back. So I think all of that's really fucking silly. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is a vice about being a person, yeah, he all.
Speaker 1: He always sort of comes back to like and like,
Speaker 1: you know, there are ways to say this and discuss this,
Speaker 1: Like life is suffering and life is miserable and you
Speaker 1: you suck and everything's bad. Um, but you're you need
Speaker 1: to find you need to create a purpose is what
Speaker 1: he's talking about. Oftentimes we're talking about what masculinity is,
Speaker 1: right right, man, And like manages productive generosity, which means
Speaker 1: managing every single being a being, a a hierarchical centralized
Speaker 1: leader of every aspect of your life and every relationship
Speaker 1: that you're involved with. And then once you're in control,
Speaker 1: you should go seek out dragons to fight, using presumably
Speaker 1: other people to do a lot of the fighting. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you send him off to get the dragon so you
Speaker 1: can get the cold. Um. It's yeah, he's always it
Speaker 1: always circles. It's weird because he also, like he dismisses
Speaker 1: this idea that certain things in society are about like power, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: they say it's about powers, Like, no, it's not. It's
Speaker 1: about this, it's about biology or like how men have
Speaker 1: these fucking like you know, genes or whatever. Um. But
Speaker 1: ultimately he's just but then he comes back to this like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you need like discontrol to do this. How do you
Speaker 1: do that? Well, you need to have the power to
Speaker 1: do that. Um. He he just always comes back to
Speaker 1: just like, ultimately I be a strong man. We need
Speaker 1: Being a man is being like a dictator in your life. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because like, obviously Jordan's the kind of
Speaker 1: guy who like worships these quote unquote traditional like kind
Speaker 1: of militarist values um and and hierarchy in that sense.
Speaker 1: But if you actually look at like what makes the
Speaker 1: best the most functional military hierarchies on the planet. Um,
Speaker 1: they all are based around the idea that you should
Speaker 1: have a really strong non commissioned officer core. And this
Speaker 1: is certainly a kind of strict hierarchy, but it's a
Speaker 1: hierarchy that is in a lot of ways less centralized
Speaker 1: than the kind of pyramidal hierarchy the peters. It's it's
Speaker 1: based around the idea that you should actually have a
Speaker 1: lot of little leaders that are invest did in a
Speaker 1: great degree of autonomy and whose expertise is respected. And oftentimes,
Speaker 1: like if you have a unit, like a platoon, you
Speaker 1: have an officer who's technically in charge, and then you
Speaker 1: have an inn c O who is technically under him,
Speaker 1: but who was generally recognized as actually being more expert
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, and both of them like
Speaker 1: take on different tasks. And that's necessary for actually effectively
Speaker 1: leading a unit through combat because you're talking about working together. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about like working together. Um. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: all these these ideas, and it requires a great deal
Speaker 1: an effective functioning effectively as a unit in any kind
Speaker 1: of like strenuous or dangerous situation. Does at times require
Speaker 1: there being a person who is saying, like, do this
Speaker 1: and do that, because sometimes that's necessary when you're trying
Speaker 1: to accomplish goals under stress. But the thing that requires
Speaker 1: most of all is like mutual respect um, and an
Speaker 1: understanding of people's talents and an ability to of subordinates autonomy,
Speaker 1: because organizations that don't do those things can survive if
Speaker 1: there's not a danger being put on them, if there's
Speaker 1: not like a threat, But if you're actually being threatened,
Speaker 1: you want as much intelligence to be available from the
Speaker 1: organization as possible, and you only get that by giving
Speaker 1: people the ability to act with a degree of autonomy.
Speaker 1: That doesn't sound very productively generous of you, though. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we can talk a lot about like the Ukrainian military
Speaker 1: versus the Russian one, but let's move on. Um. So
Speaker 1: his next question is, oh, actually this kind of ties
Speaker 1: into that, how should you arm yourself? Um? And the
Speaker 1: answer that Peterson gives is a humanities education, um, which
Speaker 1: is interesting to me. That is interesting. Yeah, and he
Speaker 1: thinks that he kind of defines a good education the
Speaker 1: humanities is reading great men into his credit. He says,
Speaker 1: great women too. Um. He's actually pretty careful about that
Speaker 1: in that so I'll give you, I'll give you a
Speaker 1: thumbs up. Dr only took eight years. Yeah, So after
Speaker 1: this we get an extended rant about how if you
Speaker 1: either lie or you just say things you don't fully
Speaker 1: believe in, Like if you alter your own beliefs to
Speaker 1: like write an essay to get a good grade for
Speaker 1: a teacher, to impress someone, then you're letting someone else
Speaker 1: control and speak for you, which is kind of like
Speaker 1: basically letting a demonic spirit run your body. Um. This
Speaker 1: is interesting for two reasons. Actually, one is that he
Speaker 1: says this all the time. This is another one of
Speaker 1: another one like thing, where's like why does this show exist?
Speaker 1: This is just everything you've ever said in your like
Speaker 1: your books and stuff. Um, but also, uh, Ben Shapiro
Speaker 1: has literally said the opposite, Like he his advice to
Speaker 1: his advice to people at school is to do what
Speaker 1: he did, which is just regurgitate everything is law, professor said,
Speaker 1: pretend that he believes it so that he can like
Speaker 1: pass the grade. And I'm never gonna say this about
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro, but like that's a valuable life skill. Like
Speaker 1: sometimes you're gonna get pulled over by a cop, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna need the light of that police officer so
Speaker 1: that you don't suffer consequences that will fuck your life up. Right. Sometimes,
Speaker 1: perhaps you're trying to get on an airplane and you
Speaker 1: have a bag that's over the limit, and being able
Speaker 1: to like lie about it and convince someone not to
Speaker 1: weigh it is a useful life skill because then you
Speaker 1: don't you're not out fifty dollars. Sometimes you sit down
Speaker 1: with someone who's maybe kind of a crazy asshole, and
Speaker 1: it's just the easiest thing and the safest thing to
Speaker 1: not engage with them over some of the things that
Speaker 1: they're saying. If it's not you know, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: don't engage with racists, but a lot of people are
Speaker 1: just assholes in ways that it's like, I don't need
Speaker 1: to you don't need to argue with you. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: just be like, okay, okay, let's in the interaction and
Speaker 1: smile at them. That's a useful life skill. People who
Speaker 1: are able to do those things, who are able to
Speaker 1: understand how to I don't need to be totally honest
Speaker 1: right now. I also I can just in the interaction,
Speaker 1: and I want to do that in a pleasant way.
Speaker 1: So I'm just going to pretend like I don't think
Speaker 1: this person is dumb as ship right, Like that's fine, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but his his sort of assumption, I think, And maybe
Speaker 1: he's changed his mind since is that like if you
Speaker 1: if you do that, and you do it like more
Speaker 1: than a few times, you'll start believing the things that
Speaker 1: you're that you're allowing to be said. I've lied to
Speaker 1: a lot of cops about having weed in the car,
Speaker 1: and I've never thought that my car back in the
Speaker 1: day didn't have weed in it and didn't deserve to
Speaker 1: have weed in it, didn't deserve to have We met exactly. Um. Anyway, whatever,
Speaker 1: the good thing about this rant is that it gives
Speaker 1: us another little moment of accidental honesty from Dr Peterson.
Speaker 1: I think, well, God, that was a miserable life. I
Speaker 1: manipulated everybody. They were so damn stupid. They were sucked
Speaker 1: in by it. They're all contemptible everyone doesn't you know,
Speaker 1: which they don't by the way, And so that's a
Speaker 1: pathway to bitterness. Pathway to bitterness, huh, pathway to bitterness. Um.
Speaker 1: He kind of I feel like he's talking about himself there.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it. I feel like that Peterson
Speaker 1: often comes off as a bitter old man. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think he's a bitter old man. And I think he's
Speaker 1: bitter because the only thing he's done with his life
Speaker 1: is manipulate people. Um. And it's he says again. He
Speaker 1: talks a lot about how there's no difference between the
Speaker 1: spirit of manipulation taking you over in demonic possession, and
Speaker 1: he's the only thing that stopped him from being canceled
Speaker 1: is that he's a fundamentally honest person. Which is fun
Speaker 1: because Jordan got famous for claiming that Canadian Bill C
Speaker 1: sixteen was going to force people to use ginger neutral
Speaker 1: pronouns for non binary and transgender identities and legally punish
Speaker 1: them if they didn't, that people were going to be
Speaker 1: literally thrown into prison. Um. He gave a lot of
Speaker 1: interviews saying like, I think some of the things that
Speaker 1: I say in my lectures now might be illegal. I
Speaker 1: think they might even be sufficient for me to be
Speaker 1: brought before the Ontario Human Rights Commission under their amended
Speaker 1: hate speech laws. This has never happened, Nothing like this
Speaker 1: has ever happened in Canada to Dr Peterson or to
Speaker 1: anyone else. He was completely full of shit. Um. You know, yeah,
Speaker 1: the first video, I mean, the first video he shared
Speaker 1: about that topic was like professor against political correctness. You
Speaker 1: know exactly what is doing, and it's it's like if
Speaker 1: you actually look at the and if you actually talk
Speaker 1: to any of the Canadian legal experts about what this
Speaker 1: law meant and what the actual because there is a
Speaker 1: threshold at which hate speech is criminal in Canada, and
Speaker 1: the threshold is pretty high. You would have to be
Speaker 1: literally advocating for genocide. You would you would be having
Speaker 1: to try to incite a genocide, which number one, None
Speaker 1: of whatever you want to say. His comments back then
Speaker 1: did not cross that line. And apparently no one's has
Speaker 1: because no one has. No one's been prosecuted for this.
Speaker 1: There's been no criminal cases as a result of this. Um.
Speaker 1: I might argue that perhaps there should have been, but whatever. Um.
Speaker 1: So Peterson veers from this into an unhinged dissection of
Speaker 1: sleeping beauty. He really he's he's got an old school
Speaker 1: Disney fixation and I'm just gonna have well because they're
Speaker 1: the old stories, right, their fairy tales, the evil You're
Speaker 1: not ones that are exactly anyway. Here's Jordan Peterson, So
Speaker 1: what can you arm yourself with? You know? In Sleeping Beauty,
Speaker 1: when the Prince he's entrapped in the in that castle
Speaker 1: by uh Maleficent, who's the ultimate edible mother, she transforms
Speaker 1: herself into a dragon, which everyone seems to just take
Speaker 1: as a matter of course, because of course the evil
Speaker 1: which transforms herself into a dragon, Like, why we think
Speaker 1: that's logical is a deep question, an oar contemptic question.
Speaker 1: But anyways, he's armed with the sword of truth, and
Speaker 1: I believe it's the shield of virtue, but the sword
Speaker 1: of truth. And that's it's a corny trope in some sense,
Speaker 1: but it's not corny at all, because how could falsehood
Speaker 1: prevail against truth? How could that possibly be the case?
Speaker 1: If if what is true reflects what is real, how
Speaker 1: can what is unreal prevail against what is real? And so,
Speaker 1: you know, I love when he does stuff like that.
Speaker 1: And then he's like and so and he's like, wait,
Speaker 1: what were they talking about? Yeah? At all, First off,
Speaker 1: Jordan's we accept it when the witch turns into a
Speaker 1: dragon because it is a fantasy cartoon and she's a witch.
Speaker 1: So even though witches don't always turn into dragons, and
Speaker 1: movies in fact, usually don't. In movies with witches, we're
Speaker 1: all like, yeah, whatever, Like she she just did a
Speaker 1: bunch of fucking gobbledegoot magic. It's fine, Like there's there's
Speaker 1: fucking like even just like okay, yeah, she's doing magic
Speaker 1: and stuff. She turned to a dragon. She's deceiving whether
Speaker 1: it's like her true form or she's turning to a
Speaker 1: dragon deceiving him. I've got the sort of truth like
Speaker 1: he was right the first time. It's a little corny trope,
Speaker 1: it's little on the nose. It's it's like he's just
Speaker 1: he's taking this like visual metaphor or like his imagery
Speaker 1: and being like, wow, yeah, truth is important, Like it's
Speaker 1: just like what Yeah, it's like if it's like if
Speaker 1: Jordan Peters And watched Happy Gilmore and was talking about
Speaker 1: the scene where he does a subway ad and he's like,
Speaker 1: we accept the subway ad because somehow fundamentally there's something
Speaker 1: about human beings that make them want to sell five
Speaker 1: dollar sandwiches. No, we accept the subway ad because there
Speaker 1: was a lot of advertising and movies at the time,
Speaker 1: and it was clearly a joke about that as well,
Speaker 1: Like it's anyway, whatever, Dr Peterson, I watched Happy Gilmore
Speaker 1: recently holds up, um find uh quite good film, you know.
Speaker 1: Weirdly enough, Shooter McGavin is the same as the fed
Speaker 1: from the Iron Giant. Oh oh I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway,
Speaker 1: so it's all, it's all good. Um, it's all. His
Speaker 1: entire argument here just rests on like this very ridiculous tautology.
Speaker 1: If what is true reflects what is real, how can
Speaker 1: what is unreal prevail over what is real? Well, I
Speaker 1: don't know. If you lie and you get a crowd
Speaker 1: of people to believe man committed a crime that he
Speaker 1: didn't commit, and then you get them to lynch that
Speaker 1: man so you can take his stuff, it seems like
Speaker 1: what is unreal can prevail over what is real, and
Speaker 1: does so regularly, like look at like his any like
Speaker 1: historical record, Like yeah, it happens all the time. It works,
Speaker 1: what he talstantly works, what of the most successful strategies
Speaker 1: in all of history? Because also because he'll and he'll
Speaker 1: because he talks about these things too. He talks about
Speaker 1: like oh like different regimes and their propaganda and how
Speaker 1: effective it is, and like it's talked about Nazi. Well,
Speaker 1: he talked about Nazi Germany being this weird collect example,
Speaker 1: but like there's whole families of people who exist because
Speaker 1: at some point someone was asked, are you hiding a
Speaker 1: Jewish family in your house? And they said no, Like
Speaker 1: it turns out but how But did they not have
Speaker 1: the sort of truth like no, they were good at
Speaker 1: lying and that's an important life skill. Um, anyway, one
Speaker 1: like not yeah, it's it's it's very on because a
Speaker 1: lot of like, not only is this stupid, this is
Speaker 1: advice that is almost tailor made to create failures of people.
Speaker 1: Listen to this portion where he complains that people who
Speaker 1: do the writing they're assigned by their teachers just to
Speaker 1: get a grade, are like inherently breaking some sort of
Speaker 1: moral law. Wait, okay, check this out. Why right, Well,
Speaker 1: maybe you're writing about something important and if you're not,
Speaker 1: then it's just a lie the whole enterprise. So write
Speaker 1: about something important. Why do you want to? Right, Well,
Speaker 1: so that you can think that's what you're doing when
Speaker 1: you're writing revelation. Here's some ideas I have. You do
Speaker 1: your research. Here's some ideas I have. I'll get them down,
Speaker 1: then i'll edit the idea, so only keep the best ideas. Well,
Speaker 1: now I know how to think about that. Now I
Speaker 1: know how to perceive that. Now I know how to
Speaker 1: act on that. Well, now you know how to perceive
Speaker 1: an act in relationship to something difficult. Well that's why
Speaker 1: you learn to write, so you can think. And you
Speaker 1: know everyone says to their children and think before you act. Well,
Speaker 1: why so you can not do stupid things? So why
Speaker 1: st so you don't do stupid things? Why not the
Speaker 1: stupid things? Stupid things perhaps like getting addicted to benzos
Speaker 1: while leading nothing but red meat for months, and then
Speaker 1: letting your daughter take you to a weird Russian clinic
Speaker 1: where you do a cold turkey detox so dangerous it
Speaker 1: nearly kills you, leaves you in a coma, and results
Speaker 1: in you becoming a broken shell of a man who
Speaker 1: cries at random during podcast interviews and can't sleep for
Speaker 1: thirty days after drinking a supersider. Like it's another like
Speaker 1: a lot of people just do essays because they need
Speaker 1: to get the grade, because they're paying like even dollars
Speaker 1: to take this fucking class. Also, like, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of ways that like to learn how to think
Speaker 1: and like different processes and again like pattern recognition and
Speaker 1: all these sort of like logic and reasoning and whatnot. Oftentimes,
Speaker 1: learning to write is to it's not to think, it's
Speaker 1: to communicate your thoughts. Um, it is what he's really
Speaker 1: trying to say. Oh so this is like a thing
Speaker 1: he said again is another one of those like heard
Speaker 1: this ninety times from this guy. Uh. But it's just
Speaker 1: like Jordan's. If being a good writer meant you were
Speaker 1: a good thinker, then writers would be famous for being
Speaker 1: well adjusted people with healthy habits rather than like the
Speaker 1: most comprehensively broken career field in in in the entirety
Speaker 1: of the arts and sciences. Like name a famous writer, uh,
Speaker 1: and and then name what they're famous for outside of
Speaker 1: their books, And it's probably the fact that their life
Speaker 1: is a disaster, right, And like it's not that, Which
Speaker 1: is not to say that you need to have a
Speaker 1: disaster of a life to be a writer. It's just
Speaker 1: to say that writing well does not mean you know
Speaker 1: how to think well. Right, You can communicate. Again, you
Speaker 1: can communicate your thoughts that you're having. You have these
Speaker 1: orson Scott Card be beautiful writer, dogshit opinions about the world. Also,
Speaker 1: I love this idea that like, if you watch the video,
Speaker 1: he's using his hands a lot and talking about you
Speaker 1: write it and then it's this big, long thing and
Speaker 1: then you edit it down to just the best ideas.
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone listening has seen maps of meaning.
Speaker 1: I don't think it had an editor code. It's like
Speaker 1: thousand page uh diagram of a dragon. It's um So,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe you should write more to learn
Speaker 1: how to think better. But it's like you're learning how
Speaker 1: to put forth an argument, not necessarily how to no.
Speaker 1: And that's that's the thing that he says, right, Like
Speaker 1: that he's actually saying here, which is that like the
Speaker 1: goal of writing is to like make an argument, to
Speaker 1: convince somebody about the way you think, rather than just
Speaker 1: trying to like explain a thing or describe a thing.
Speaker 1: It's about like everything else. For Jordan's it's about domination.
Speaker 1: So if he played that, played this next clip right?
Speaker 1: So why right? How about so you can take your
Speaker 1: place in the world, Not so you can please the
Speaker 1: teacher and be some obedient like lap dog. You need
Speaker 1: to know how to think and speak so you can
Speaker 1: lead and think and and conceptualize and and in trance.
Speaker 1: He does the thing again where you can see his
Speaker 1: like he just kind of goes away for a second
Speaker 1: name when he says hind in trance, and it's I
Speaker 1: would say, pretty unsettling. Yeah, well, like because again it's
Speaker 1: like in trance, entrancing implies deception. Yeah, um, which seems
Speaker 1: contradictory to what he's trying to say, but yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's the he what he What he makes clear in
Speaker 1: this next clip is that, yeah, writing is just a
Speaker 1: tool for domination, because that's the actual only task worth achieving.
Speaker 1: To Jordan's pen is mightier than sword. It's there's no
Speaker 1: comparison the sword, you know, Yeah, fair enough, and you
Speaker 1: want to be careful of someone who wields the sword,
Speaker 1: but you wield the pen in a mighty manner. Nothing
Speaker 1: stops you. Ever. H that's assuming too, that you're oriented,
Speaker 1: you know, in some noble manner. He does use the
Speaker 1: word oriented like a lot. Yeah, it's it sounds smarter
Speaker 1: to him than like facing or directed or whatever, like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just like, why do we need
Speaker 1: so many words to say the phrase that he already said.
Speaker 1: He said, he said the common phrase the pen is
Speaker 1: mightier than the sword, and then he like started to
Speaker 1: talk about it for a long time. It's like I
Speaker 1: don't need that I have the phrase yeah, And it's
Speaker 1: also again it's it's one of I love. The pen
Speaker 1: is mightier than the sword is like a fucking because
Speaker 1: it's useless, right, It's a completely useless statement, because no,
Speaker 1: the pen is not mightier than the sword. Um, the
Speaker 1: argument is, like, the actual thing that is true is that, like, well,
Speaker 1: ideas can cause like Titanic shifts and can get lots
Speaker 1: of people killed and can be sort of the beginning
Speaker 1: point the well spring of a tremendous amount of power, right,
Speaker 1: and ideas can be written down and often are, And
Speaker 1: that's true. But like the fact that like the Nazis
Speaker 1: wrote a lot of books and propaganda that was instrumental
Speaker 1: in them gaining power, didn't mean that, like their ability
Speaker 1: to beat the ship out of and shoot people wasn't
Speaker 1: also instrumental in game. And a lot of people who
Speaker 1: did that weren't convinced because of like writing or propaganda,
Speaker 1: but because they wanted power and wealth and saw this
Speaker 1: is the best way to get it. And like we're
Speaker 1: acting out of grave and self interest and kind of
Speaker 1: an in tandem thing again, saying that just saying the
Speaker 1: pen is mightier than the sword is a meaningless statement.
Speaker 1: So he's not because he's not talking about that right
Speaker 1: because he's he had to he had to qualify with
Speaker 1: like well as long as it's oriented towards like moral
Speaker 1: good or wherever we phrased it. Uh. Oh, he's not
Speaker 1: even talking about like in his view like bad guys
Speaker 1: with a pen. No, So what's it? Saw? This qualification
Speaker 1: seems like this. It's fucking trash, Cody, and it's trash
Speaker 1: that we're gonna let's sit for today and finish this
Speaker 1: episode up when we come back in part two of this,
Speaker 1: he talks so much about things and nothing at all
Speaker 1: everything and he looks, I don't know, Kermit, the frog,
Speaker 1: I do like that where we've got it, where we've
Speaker 1: got it paused right now, there's like a little you
Speaker 1: can see a little wattle starting to form on the
Speaker 1: side of his neck like I'm seeing for Peterson's just
Speaker 1: just like a frog's pouch. So I don't know. Maybe
Speaker 1: Dr Jordan Peterson is a lizard man. Let's go see
Speaker 1: if David Ike has an opinion on that. Cody any
Speaker 1: thing to pluck all the time, every day. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: my name is Cody john Been. Uh like you said
Speaker 1: the top some more news, even more news, go google it.
Speaker 1: We got three hours on this guy we're talking about character.
Speaker 1: Your name is Cody Johnson. Has anyone n sorry, has
Speaker 1: it guy ever called you see Gisel? No? Well technically yes,
Speaker 1: because you just did. There. We got episodes over. Oh good.
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.
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