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Speaker 1: Uh, what's abusive? My friendship with Cody. I'm Robert Evans,

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Speaker 1: host of Behind the Bastards, podcast about terrible People, with

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Speaker 1: my good friend Tody Johnston. Cody, how are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Hello there. I'm spectacular. I couldn't be better and a

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Speaker 1: fantastic won't be judging from No, you're a little I

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Speaker 1: know about what we're gonna talk about. You're gonna have

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Speaker 1: a terrible day to day, Cody. Cody, you are the

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Speaker 1: host of some More News and the co host of

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Speaker 1: the podcast with a similar but not exactly the same name,

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Speaker 1: um YouTube Sensation, it would be fair to say, and

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Speaker 1: my absolutely and my friend of many years and Cody Deep.

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Speaker 1: Are you familiar with the concept of love languages? I am. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's it's this idea that that people there's different people

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Speaker 1: express love in different ways, and in a major part

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Speaker 1: of having a healthy relations it is understanding the way

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Speaker 1: that the people in your life express love and communicating

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Speaker 1: to them the way that you do so that you

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Speaker 1: don't misunderstand each other and you appreciate, you know, when

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Speaker 1: the other person tries to share with you the way

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Speaker 1: they feel. And I've I've come to recognize over the

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Speaker 1: years Cody, that you and I have a particular love language.

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Speaker 1: It started a couple of years ago when you began

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Speaker 1: telling me about Dr Jordan B. Peterson. Um. That all

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Speaker 1: culminated in me putting together like a three hour podcast

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Speaker 1: series about the life of Dr Jordan B. Peterson. And

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Speaker 1: then a couple of years later you put together a

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Speaker 1: three hour video about everything Jordan Peterson has ever said

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Speaker 1: and done and and and I just watched that, Cody,

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Speaker 1: and now I am about to sit down with you,

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Speaker 1: and I am about to share, as part of my

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Speaker 1: love language, some more about Jordan B. Peterson. This is

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Speaker 1: what we call romance and romance there's nothing pure. Um.

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Speaker 1: So thank you. I I received. I believe I started

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Speaker 1: this by saying, Cody, I love you. I'm sorry, instantly

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Speaker 1: apologetic as soon as I popped off. Cody. You know

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Speaker 1: Mr Peterson, doctor Mr Peterson, Um. And you know I'm

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Speaker 1: sure that he has recently started a new television show,

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Speaker 1: a hit new TV show. Everybody's talking about it on

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Speaker 1: the Daily Wire TV show. It's it's like a show.

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Speaker 1: It's like a show. It is it has the it's

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Speaker 1: a show is a great description the show for sure,

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Speaker 1: like like it contains the totemic sigils that associated as

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Speaker 1: being like a television show. So like if you were

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Speaker 1: like the things that, like the the the representative artifacts

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Speaker 1: that signify that something is a TV show are present

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Speaker 1: in this thing, which is not a TV show. It's

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Speaker 1: on the Daily Wire's website. Um, not even Daily Wire

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Speaker 1: Plus on their website now or so, Yeah, you have

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Speaker 1: to get whatever they're streaming account. I don't know, Cody.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you how I got this show.

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Speaker 1: You don't need to, Okay. I understand it's called Dragons,

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Speaker 1: Monsters and Men um boring. That's classic. I think there's

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Speaker 1: any chance at all that like the name was picked

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Speaker 1: in part because they're like, well, the new Game of Thrones,

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Speaker 1: And then I think so because the introna like, so

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Speaker 1: you watched the new Lord of the Ring show, Cody,

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen it yet. Um, it's pretty good. I

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Speaker 1: like it, But the intro of it is very clearly

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Speaker 1: doing a Game of Thrones like that that that kind

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Speaker 1: of like where it's sort of a kind of abstract representation, um,

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Speaker 1: using like symbols and stuff and whatever. Um, it's fine,

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Speaker 1: but they're doing the same thing in Dragons monsters and

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Speaker 1: men to open the series. Yeah, well so for listeners. Uh,

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Speaker 1: a screen is being shared with me, and the first

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Speaker 1: frame of this show is on screen, and I instantly

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Speaker 1: believe you and agree with you, and like, it's not

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Speaker 1: even it's not even a letter I'm looking at. I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at the shape of a part of a letter

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Speaker 1: from the intro, Like, yeah, they're doing thrones. Yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: all smoky and dusty, and like, yeah, let's just let's

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Speaker 1: play the start of this and you at home will

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Speaker 1: hear it, and then we'll kind of describe what we're

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Speaker 1: seeing after you've heard it. But I think both are valuable. Cody,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I love you, and starting yet, Sophie, what hey,

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Speaker 1: they can't do this? Come on alright, alright, alright, let's

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Speaker 1: let's pause it and talking them. Is it just him

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Speaker 1: at a chair? It's just him in a chair. But so, so,

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Speaker 1: what we see that intro is like a bunch of

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Speaker 1: they kind of look like stone age glyphs, a mix

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Speaker 1: of like stuff that might be runic shapes. I'm not

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Speaker 1: a Runes expert. Maybe their actual runs um, but runs

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Speaker 1: in like a video games, you know, there's like animal glyphs,

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Speaker 1: there's like an arrow that's going up like progress and

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Speaker 1: then turns down, probably because the liberals started doing a

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Speaker 1: gender wokeness. Yeah, the woke run um. And then when

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Speaker 1: you heard that watching and then that a bunch of

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Speaker 1: fire blue on the screen, followed by the logo Dragons,

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Speaker 1: Monsters and men, Dragons earlier challenges, Monsters and the Demons.

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Speaker 1: You have to Slane, it's like you've spent dozens of

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Speaker 1: hours watching Dr Jordan Peterson talking about his ideas. It's

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Speaker 1: just like it was basic symbolism and ship. All right,

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Speaker 1: yeah it is, it is, Cody. It is kind of

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Speaker 1: I think Jordan Peterson would have been a really inspirational,

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Speaker 1: like sixth grade creative writing teacher. I've always thought, like, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: go out write a book, not your weird books, a

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Speaker 1: fiction book, and like use all your ideas and your

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Speaker 1: archetypes and your symbolism and and say a story that

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Speaker 1: you think should be told with all those ideas, and

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Speaker 1: then maybe people will finally see the uh what you believe?

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Speaker 1: I think something different is going to happen, Cody. So

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Speaker 1: the episode one is titled What Makes a Man? And

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Speaker 1: once the title crawl finishes, were presented with Jordan Peterson

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Speaker 1: wearing a nice fitted blue suit and sitting in a

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Speaker 1: leather armchair in a library. There's a large, like hour

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Speaker 1: glass style clock that's about four ft behind him. And

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Speaker 1: what's interesting to me is how all the production value

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Speaker 1: and intensity they've tried to build up at the start

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Speaker 1: of the s episode dissipates the instant Jordan starts talking

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna have Sophie quickplay to display that I can't.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I love you. There are multiple let's say,

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Speaker 1: competence and authority, multiple especially in a sophisticated society, and

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Speaker 1: so you're fortunate if you're good at one or two things.

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Speaker 1: Most of the ways you could be competent and generous,

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Speaker 1: you're just not that good at So first of all,

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Speaker 1: I would say, don't be too disheartened, especially if you're

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Speaker 1: so listeners. What's just happened on screen is that obviously

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Speaker 1: you can hear him talking, it's just him sitting in

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Speaker 1: the chair, and after like twenty seconds, the screen splits

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Speaker 1: and we watch a close up of his face next

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Speaker 1: to a slightly further outshot of his face, both at

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Speaker 1: the same time really off putting and disconcerting. It's because

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Speaker 1: they know, they know what they've done. It's really threw

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Speaker 1: They threw god knows how much money at this guy,

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Speaker 1: like millions of dollars. I probably millions of a lot

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Speaker 1: of Like they're just that's why he literally said this

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Speaker 1: out loud and one of his videos like, yeah, they

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Speaker 1: gave me a lot of money. Uh, and more power

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Speaker 1: to him go for it. But so they know they've done.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately and the Daily Wire Plus wants to be

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Speaker 1: the programming like they wanted anti woke, like the TV

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Speaker 1: that you don't get on HBO, which we secretly love

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Um, And so they've throw this

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Speaker 1: money at it. But ultimately what they bought was Jordan

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Speaker 1: Peterson doing his lectures, which is just a guy on stage.

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Speaker 1: That's it. So they have to make it seem somewhat

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Speaker 1: like cinematic or exciting or visually interesting at all. And

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Speaker 1: so they have two campus follow him and do a

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Speaker 1: splitz Cody, Cody, I'm gonna give you a spoiler. At

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Speaker 1: a certain point, there's going to be three. Yeah, It's

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Speaker 1: like I was like waiting at a certain point. They

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Speaker 1: do like re enactments are like they feel like third

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Speaker 1: It is never anything but Jordan Peterson on screen. Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's here's here's okay, here's my slight feedback here. So

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Speaker 1: he's worked very hard, Like the hair is perfectly slicked back,

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Speaker 1: he's chosen you know, the coat. Why is his tie crooked?

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Speaker 1: And why is his shirt wrinkled? Two notes those were

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Speaker 1: my clearly tried super hard to have this like put

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Speaker 1: together image. But yet your shirt is wrinkled and your

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Speaker 1: tie is crooked. What is happening? Also, what is that tie?

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Speaker 1: They didn't say, I don't want to shakes and possibly

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Speaker 1: the Benzo. I just gotta say it's the Benz s

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Speaker 1: I wear a very crumpled suit and tie on my show.

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Speaker 1: I do not own a suit or tie on purpose.

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Speaker 1: But fabulous. Well, like he seems seems like the kind

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Speaker 1: of guy who would be like, well, no, iron, my

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Speaker 1: shirt's before my my my big show. My nicest outfit

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Speaker 1: is an open hoodie with a Bart Simpson Gulf War

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Speaker 1: commemorative T shirt. I mean it's spells Saddam huss saying Huskin,

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Speaker 1: He's like put a lot of effort into it. Like

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Speaker 1: he's gone through the trouble of calling up Gavin Nusup

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Speaker 1: and being like what Harold jail do you use and

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Speaker 1: using all the hair gel and but yet crooked tie,

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Speaker 1: wrinkled shirt. Just very interesting to note. Shall we continue?

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Speaker 1: Roberts also, Sophie, real quick, get used to the hands.

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Speaker 1: He stop doing the little magic fingers. He loves the

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Speaker 1: little magic fingers. Money as I'm sure they're spending on this,

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Speaker 1: and for all the production value that existed in the

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Speaker 1: first twenty eight seconds, which is going to be the

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Speaker 1: most exciting thing we see today. Uh, it's I think

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Speaker 1: the episodes. I don't even think there's scripts to these,

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Speaker 1: Like you said, it's just like they filmed a lecture.

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Speaker 1: This isn't I've seen his lectures and they are normally

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Speaker 1: like he's wrong about things, but he knows how to

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Speaker 1: give a competent lecture right where he like builds to

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Speaker 1: a point and yeah, there's a journeys an impact on

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Speaker 1: the audience. That's why he's been successful. That's not what

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Speaker 1: we're having here. There's no nothing he's building to. He

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Speaker 1: is just sitting in a chair and kind of talking

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Speaker 1: almost aimlessly. Um yeah, I want just listen, listen to this.

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Speaker 1: I will so my prediction. So this seems like what

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Speaker 1: you're describing is uh, like you know, you've you've written

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Speaker 1: a lot about him. I recently released a three hour

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Speaker 1: video about him. Uh. In doing so, you have to

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Speaker 1: watch a lot of YouTube videos of him. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: in doing that, your algorithm gets completely fucked um. And

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Speaker 1: so if you're like scrolling like YouTube shorts or something,

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Speaker 1: here's like, oh, here's this fifty second clip of Jordan

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Speaker 1: Peterson on a podcast, rambling about whatever. And it seems

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Speaker 1: like that's what this experience will be, just like scrolling

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Speaker 1: through these like fifty second clips of him like random

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Speaker 1: thought about this, I can say this about monsters and

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Speaker 1: then just sort of like yeah, yeah, they just kind

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Speaker 1: of sat down and let him go. And you can

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Speaker 1: kind of see in the editing and then gradually how

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Speaker 1: the off screen questions are kind of directing him that

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Speaker 1: I think they recognized that made a mistake about ten

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Speaker 1: minutes into this. But I want to play you the

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Speaker 1: next set of clips here. Sorry. What should I do?

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Speaker 1: And part of the problem is the question what should

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Speaker 1: I do with my life is not a very good

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Speaker 1: question because it's sort of like tell me about everything.

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Speaker 1: It's just too much what do you do in your life?

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Speaker 1: Will you say you do many things. Okay, what are

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Speaker 1: those things? Because I don't know what to do? What

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Speaker 1: other people that appear to give their lives significance and meaning?

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Speaker 1: And this is bears on the issue of responsibility. Well,

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Speaker 1: most people want to have or do have an intimate partner.

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Speaker 1: So if you don't have split see his hands, we

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Speaker 1: don't work on that by going to find the person

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Speaker 1: that's right for you. It's like, who the hell are you?

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Speaker 1: And what makes you think that even if you found

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Speaker 1: the person that was right for you, they wouldn't take

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Speaker 1: one look at you and runaway screaming I'm gonna talk

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Speaker 1: like this. I can't he just because he's he's like

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Speaker 1: circling really banal advice, like he can't get in the

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Speaker 1: In the roughly a minute that we played fifty seconds,

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Speaker 1: the actual point he has made is that like, life

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Speaker 1: includes a lot of things, and it's you shouldn't try

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Speaker 1: to find someone to fall in love with, right, Like

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Speaker 1: life is complicated, you gotta narrow it down your goals

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Speaker 1: and like but like the point he's the broader point

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Speaker 1: he's making is that like young men shouldn't seek to

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Speaker 1: find someone to complete them, they should become the person

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Speaker 1: that like is you know, which is fine advice. That's

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Speaker 1: good advice on yourself, right of at the same time,

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Speaker 1: because also he talks like really contradictory too, because he's

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Speaker 1: saying it as if like, well, why do wanna like

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Speaker 1: get find so an intimate intimate partner? Uh, who's like

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Speaker 1: right for you? Well, what makes you think that they're

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Speaker 1: gonna like you? So, like he's talking about it in

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Speaker 1: this dismissive way where it's like, don't even try. And

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Speaker 1: then he's coming back to you need to work on

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Speaker 1: yourself before you do that in order to what Because

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Speaker 1: ultimately what he's saying is work on yourself in order

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Speaker 1: to be of value to a partner. So he's still

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Speaker 1: encouraging this end goal. He's just saying like, yeah, takes

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Speaker 1: some time, and do work on yourself. It's just such

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Speaker 1: a weird way to to say these things. It's it's

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Speaker 1: it's pointlessly long and and after meandering for a little

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Speaker 1: while longer, Peterson announces that the primary thing that young

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Speaker 1: men have going for them is youth and possibility, which

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Speaker 1: is what sets them apart from the olds who have

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Speaker 1: money and the ability to wear nice suits. While seated

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Speaker 1: in a library funded by oil and gas billionaire investments,

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Speaker 1: but don't have as much energy or as much time.

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Speaker 1: Peterson makes the claim that if you're young and poor,

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Speaker 1: you still have an unbelievable source of wealth because you're young,

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Speaker 1: and obviously no one would change being young for being

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Speaker 1: decrepit and rich. Now, this seems to ignore that an

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Speaker 1: awful lot of rich people are in excellent shape and

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Speaker 1: stay that way for a long time because it's very

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Speaker 1: easy to eat well and seek medical care. Money. I

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Speaker 1: see good, good stuff, Jordan. He's done this before about

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Speaker 1: like wealth and stuff, where it's like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: everybody has problems. You know, it's not richer, you're richer,

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Speaker 1: your poor. You know you're richer poor. You know everybody

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Speaker 1: gets sick. It's like, yeah, but but how do you

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Speaker 1: what do you do if you get sick? And what

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Speaker 1: you do if you get sick and you're and you're rich.

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Speaker 1: Like it's so it's like people looking at Kanu, who

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Speaker 1: is like pushing sixty and being like, wow, he looks incredible,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure Kanu reeves. The first thing he would

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Speaker 1: say is yeah, because I have tens of millions of dollars. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's like a video of h Rob Mac describing his

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Speaker 1: how he got in shape. It's like, yeah, it's impossible.

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Speaker 1: If you have unlimited money, then it's very you don't

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Speaker 1: spend time with anybody and you have to do Yeah. Silly, um,

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Speaker 1: very silly. Now, most of what Peterson is trying to

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Speaker 1: get out here is like his normal twelve Rules for

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Speaker 1: life ship just not at all very well organized. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it's certainly not yet offensive advice, although he's ignoring

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Speaker 1: things in a way that is kind of offensive. But

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Speaker 1: it's true that if you're young and healthy, that is

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Speaker 1: worth a lot. Right, Youth and health are are very

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Speaker 1: valuable things. Time is valuable, of course. Like again, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like this thing he does where it's like what

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Speaker 1: you're saying, like if you shave everything away. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a fine point that a lot of people make on

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Speaker 1: everywhere and art exactly. But he's houses it and it's

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Speaker 1: like monsters and dragons and men. It's like, well, you're

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Speaker 1: just sitting in it. He said nothing. Nothing that he

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Speaker 1: said that's right, is something you couldn't find on the

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Speaker 1: wall of an Airbnb in Glndale, California. Exactly. Um, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's funny. But as he starts at this

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Speaker 1: like very basic point that like yes, health, youth and

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Speaker 1: and health are are are valuable. But like a lot

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Speaker 1: of his platitudes in this episode, it starts to spin

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Speaker 1: out like tires losing traction and muney and it's very

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Speaker 1: funny to listen to. So I'm gonna have you play

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Speaker 1: this next clip. Are you good at anything? And if

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Speaker 1: fancier that is, no, Well how about you start practicing

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Speaker 1: being good at something? Pick one thing? Well? What well,

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Speaker 1: not nothing? Pick something? Maybe it's a video game? Surely

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Speaker 1: sage advice. Dr Peterson talk like a guy who's ever

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Speaker 1: talked to a person before. This is also and I

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Speaker 1: have to say this is and I'll probably have to

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Speaker 1: point this out every thirty seconds. This is something he

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Speaker 1: says all the time in every interview he's ever been

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Speaker 1: in being asked about advice for people. Uh this like

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Speaker 1: pick something and do it. I've heard it different times

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Speaker 1: in ninety different interviews in ninety different like Alpha Brain

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Speaker 1: Academy clip on YouTube. Why did they give this guy

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Speaker 1: so much money for this show? Yes, acquiring skills is

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Speaker 1: useful in life. It's just like yeah. So he goes

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Speaker 1: on to say that getting good at anything helps you

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Speaker 1: learn how to get good at other things, which is true,

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Speaker 1: but not in a way that really means anything, Like

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Speaker 1: if you get good at a video game, which he

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Speaker 1: actually suggests here, that probably won't actually help you get

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Speaker 1: good at endurance running, even though you could like boil

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Speaker 1: it down and be like, we'll both require you to

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Speaker 1: do something over and over again until you get better

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Speaker 1: at it. But like playing video games is pleasurable and

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Speaker 1: physically not difficult on your body, whereas distance running is

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Speaker 1: really difficult on your body and makes you uncomfortable for

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Speaker 1: extended periods of time. And so the fact that you

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Speaker 1: got good at a video game probably won't help you

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Speaker 1: with your endurance running. Not that there aren't people who

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Speaker 1: are good at both, but the fact that like skills

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Speaker 1: are not universally applicant, right one doesn't necessarily lead to

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Speaker 1: the other. And like running, you know, running might make

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Speaker 1: you better at a video game because like exercise, like

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Speaker 1: is good for your brain and like your focus and

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Speaker 1: attention and things, and that's what you need when you

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Speaker 1: play a video game. If you play a video game,

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Speaker 1: it might help you with like pattern recognition and certain

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Speaker 1: things like that. Um, But like you can't just like

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Speaker 1: pick two things and say do this and you'll get

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Speaker 1: better at the other. It's yeah, it's also like I

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Speaker 1: think there's actually a fundamental flaw in the logic that

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Speaker 1: like learning how to get good at one thing means

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Speaker 1: you'll get good at other things. Because it's a general

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Speaker 1: rule the things that people get best at first do

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Speaker 1: the things that they're like inclined towards because of basic interest,

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Speaker 1: and an awful lot of actual success is getting good

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Speaker 1: at things that you're not inclined to. But you need

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Speaker 1: to build up some level of competence and because like

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Speaker 1: a lot of life is just kind of unpleasant, um,

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Speaker 1: and got to do things you don't like and get

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Speaker 1: good at them so you can do them well and

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Speaker 1: get them over with Exactly, Like if if you love basketball, um,

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Speaker 1: and you hate numbers, the fact that the skills that

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Speaker 1: made you good at basketball might not make you good

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Speaker 1: at paying your taxes, which is why people who become

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Speaker 1: professional sports players generally higher professional accountants. Right yea, um,

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Speaker 1: but whatever, anyway, continue Jordan Peterson. So the next thing

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Speaker 1: he goes into is he talks about how he when

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Speaker 1: he was a young man, the thing that he became

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Speaker 1: good at first was washing dishes um, which I don't

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Speaker 1: know that he actually did this, but he's claiming this

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Speaker 1: because it makes him seem like a man of the

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Speaker 1: people he has. I am not certain he ever did

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Speaker 1: this job, but a lot of people do. So let's

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Speaker 1: just hear him out. And so what else do you

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Speaker 1: have to do to be a good dishwasher? Learn the techniques,

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Speaker 1: stay on stay on your toes, Volunteer to work when

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Speaker 1: other people don't show up, um, show an interest in

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Speaker 1: learning to cook, get along with the waitresses, maybe, get

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Speaker 1: along with the customers, act like an adult, and all

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Speaker 1: of that's excellent practice for all sorts of things you're

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Speaker 1: gonna do later. Now, this is Cody. Do you know why, however?

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Speaker 1: Why I have you known a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: did dishwashing specifically, not just like their job included dishwashing,

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Speaker 1: but like people who's who's like I've worked in restaurants

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Speaker 1: and like I've I've done dishwashing, and I've known many

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Speaker 1: dishwashers at the jobs going back, Is it not? Would

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Speaker 1: you say generally accepted as good advice that you keep

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Speaker 1: the dishwashers the funk away from the customers. Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean we don't need that. But also you keep

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Speaker 1: the dishwashers happy and like you like, it's just it's

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Speaker 1: like chefs. You don't want the chef. You can talk

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Speaker 1: to the you go in the room, you get sweaty,

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Speaker 1: you turn on your music. Whatever. It is a lot

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Speaker 1: of cocaine in the bathroom, like it's fine. Um, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. It's also like it's like not like it

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Speaker 1: depends on the restaurant too, you know. Yeah, there there's

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Speaker 1: like like very friendly like customer relations between like workers

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Speaker 1: and customers. That's fine. Um, it's a weird thing to

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Speaker 1: PLoP in there. I think he's just trying to he's

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Speaker 1: trying to give He's trying to give general life advice

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Speaker 1: which he always does that everybody could give, and make

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Speaker 1: it specific to this one example, which is what he

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Speaker 1: does all the time. Right, He's like, yeah, it's good

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Speaker 1: to like get to know this person and this type

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Speaker 1: of person and go out in the world and do this.

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Speaker 1: And he's just using dish washing and as an example. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's generally using it as an example and I mean

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Speaker 1: as agit like yeah, whatever, I don't think want to

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Speaker 1: talk to the customers like part A big part of

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Speaker 1: managing any successful enterprise where there are customers is limiting

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Speaker 1: who has to deal with customers, because that's the thing

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Speaker 1: that sucks the most, right because they're the worst people

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Speaker 1: in the world. Um, like the the last person like you.

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Speaker 1: You you want as many people as possible to not

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Speaker 1: have to talk to the customers directly because those yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: um and I just well, so quick note, if we're

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Speaker 1: if listeners, If if we're listening to a clip and

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Speaker 1: suddenly you hear like a snicker or a laugh faw

399
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Speaker 1: a little shortle uh, it might be because of what

400
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Speaker 1: he's saying. If you think what he's saying is funny,

401
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: it's probably because they just did the split screen thing again,

402
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Speaker 1: and it's so jarring and off putting, and it surprises

403
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Speaker 1: me every time because why are they doing it. It's

404
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Speaker 1: so weird. It seems like they're doing it at random.

405
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Speaker 1: There's no rhyme or reason to it. It's just like, well,

406
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Speaker 1: we need to do the split screen thing again, and

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Speaker 1: I can't wait for it to be three Peterson's on

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Speaker 1: screen at once now, Cody. A lot of evidence shows

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Speaker 1: that of all of the jobs in the United States,

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Speaker 1: the highest level of substance abuse is pretty much working

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Speaker 1: in a restaurant, particularly like working in the back of

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Speaker 1: a restaurant, like those are as as uh, Anthony Bourdain

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Speaker 1: very very eloquently wrote about, Like that's just a pretty

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Speaker 1: durable fact. And yeah, I think front of the restaurant

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Speaker 1: is cocaine. Back of the restaurant is all drugs. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I'm gonna be honest with you. The only reason

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Speaker 1: I might believe that Jordan Peterson did what he said

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Speaker 1: and he claims he went from being a dishwasher to

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Speaker 1: a short order cook, is that I can't imagine him

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Speaker 1: sitting in the back of a restaurant doing lines of

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Speaker 1: a variety of benzos and stimulants and you know whatever,

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Speaker 1: whatever he could get his hands on. Look at the man,

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Speaker 1: Look at that Look at that shirt. Tell me tell

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Speaker 1: me that man hasn't tried to straighten the lines in

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Speaker 1: a rain naked painting. I can't tell you that. Uh,

426
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: good guy, Dr Jordan Peterson. Um. Anyway, he's on the

427
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: verge of sounding like a normal person here until we

428
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 1: get to this line. You know it's not intellectual work

429
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 1: and that you're not dealing with abstractions, although it can

430
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: still be complex. That's why we don't have dishwashing robots.

431
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 1: By the way, now, quick quiz good sir, Do we

432
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: in fact have dishwashing robots? Yeah? I feel like maybe

433
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: if you just cut off the word robot. Yeah, we stopped.

434
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: We didn't use the word robot for it. But we

435
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: have washing machines, and I feel like everyone listening has

436
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: a machine that washes dishes. Um, you know, not all

437
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: places have dishwashers, but everybody knows they exist. Yeah. Again,

438
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: obviously the point he's making is that like, yeah, if

439
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: you're even with all that machines can do, if you're

440
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: like running a professional restaurant, you're going to have someone

441
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 1: whose job is keeping the dishes clean because machines can't

442
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: do everything right. And like sometimes you run the dishwasher

443
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, the dishwasher didn't work. I got

444
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,239
Speaker 1: to use my human hands that have certain ways they

445
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: can move and they can get in there and clean that.

446
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,959
Speaker 1: It's so funny because like the most famous labor saving

447
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: device on the planet is dishwashers. Like it's it's it

448
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: says if if you know, if we didn't know that

449
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: clearly Game of Thrones fan, if it was like the

450
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: only TV show this man has seen as the Jetsons

451
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: and keeps facing everything off of Rosie the Robot. I

452
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: mean it's like there's there's flint Stones and then there's Jetsons,

453
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: and there's like nothing in between. Yeah, there's nothing in between.

454
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 1: But even like dishwashing, like what birds and stuff? Right,

455
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 1: they should have called this show flint Stone Jetson's and

456
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:17,479
Speaker 1: Scooby Doo and Scooby Doos or I guess to dragon tails.

457
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: If we ever get that big x on sponsorship to

458
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: fund this podcast and I've become a millionaire, I'm going

459
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: to pay Jordan Peterson of Fortune to watch old episodes

460
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: of the of Scooby Doo where they have the Harlem

461
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: Globe Trotters on and like weep over the union profundity

462
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: of of Sweet Sweet Kyle sweet Lyle whatever his name was. Oh,

463
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: that's a waste of money. He'll do that for free.

464
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: He'll do that for free. Peterson, what do you think

465
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: about the time the Harlem Globe Trotters solved the mystery

466
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: of old Man McGregor's haunted air B and B. I

467
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,239
Speaker 1: don't know, whatever does nothing right. He's this sort of

468
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 1: this dragon inside you, and you have to you unmask

469
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 1: getting it turns out it's yourself, because we are all

470
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: our own dragons. This font is diet much better on

471
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 1: do Le. What an awful fun they chose. It's a

472
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: step above um, it's a step above Paprius, but not much,

473
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 1: not really. I'm sorry, what did you just call that?

474
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: Thank you? Thank you? Sorry, it's sorry. What what did

475
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: you referring to the Papyrus fun? I don't even think

476
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: this is a step above that, though. It's we got

477
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: these weird like cuts in it. It's like it's trying

478
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: to seem like very like royal, but also has like

479
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: a weird slime thing going to it, right, and the

480
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: slime is for the curves of only season and it's

481
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 1: like a little slug. Yeah, I don't there's some slime

482
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: to it, but it's not like that exciting to listen

483
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: to people describe. But yeah, this is the one. The

484
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: e is too cleasy, easy to mistake for an f

485
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: at distance. Anyway, whatever, fuck this font is time for

486
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: you to do an ad break. You know who will

487
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: fuck a faont oh, for sure, they'll get their dick

488
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: right in there. In fact, every time you buy one

489
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: of the products sponsored on this show. Our sponsors purchase

490
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: irreplaceable ancient Egyptian papyrus and then have sex with it.

491
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: That's a guarantee. So glad you learned how to pronounce

492
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: that word. With every purchase you make, irreplaceable human knowledge

493
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: is lost forever. We promise that and nothing else. I

494
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: hope it's another gold ad me too. Ah, we're back boy.

495
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: I sure feel like the Library of Alexandria was just

496
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: burned for my my own sexual gratify occasion. How about you, Cody?

497
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: I was going to describe it exactly like that. Wow, Wow,

498
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: we're We're It's like we're united by epigenetic collective unconsciousness.

499
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: That's where this all ends anyway. Whatever. Um oh, yeah,

500
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: we believe everything Jordan believe. After Peterson goes on another

501
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: vamps for a little while, uh, he says very little

502
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: of substance and mostly just asks rhetorical questions about self improvement,

503
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: stuff like can you improve your relationship with your father?

504
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: Can you educate yourself? And then we get this very

505
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:37,719
Speaker 1: odd moment. Yeah, the draw of temptation drug and alcohol use,

506
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: in particular sexual temptation as well. Do you do anything

507
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: that's remote Oh, Cody, how would you describe that little

508
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: play that again? So you describe that that that little

509
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: moment when he says, oh, he does this like it's

510
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: almost like a computer buffering like his his. The thing

511
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: that he said just sort of like caused a a

512
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,479
Speaker 1: fucking hard drive skip in his little bread all right,

513
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: one more time. The draw of temptation, drug and alcohol use,

514
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: in particular sexual temptation as well. Do you do anything

515
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: that's like he liked? He says? He says sexual patient

516
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: and then casts his eyes down. There's almost a little

517
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: shiver across his body as he goes, Oh, it's very weird,

518
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: he says an odd speaker. I mean, I'm sure it's

519
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: made him millions of dollars because there is something that

520
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: like you just I spent too long watching this and

521
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: just go the fuck is what are you doing? What

522
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: are you trying to get across here? It's cryptic um anyway,

523
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: So how he does it? So what does he land on?

524
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: Can you resist temptation or not? He never really finishes.

525
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: He just glitches, and then from this point he starts

526
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: to get angrier and almost abusive. Yes, oh he's doing it.

527
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: Remember melitical party do you go to church. You know,

528
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: I don't go to church because you know, uh, there,

529
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: believes don't match. It's like, who the hell cares about

530
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: your beliefs. You're like sixty, you don't even have beliefs.

531
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: And if you think it's like, you're right in that

532
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: and the Catholic church is wrong, well good luck without attitude.

533
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: And church example, or political party doesn't need repair because

534
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: all institutions are always falling apart, in corrupt. That's that's

535
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: a story as old as time. That's the evil uncle.

536
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: But good time to fix it up. Wait a second, wait,

537
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: did you say fix it up? Go fix it up?

538
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: I thought you were not allowed to do that. Yeah,

539
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: well this is exactly. None of this makes any sense

540
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: because number one, are you saying that like people should

541
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: just like you, you have to join a church, which

542
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: he's clearly saying, but also you shouldn't criticize it. But

543
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: also instead of leaving it, if it doesn't match with

544
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: your beliefs, you should change it. But also you don't

545
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: have beliefs, so and it's like, okay, if you disagree,

546
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: don't what are you going to change it to because

547
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: you don't believe anything? And what are you saying people

548
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: should do. Are you saying that like they should all

549
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: become Catholics or or that you should just join whatever

550
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: church's closest and not question it, but fix it if

551
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: it doesn't align with your beliefs. But you can't have

552
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: beliefs yet because you're just a kid. It's um, it's nonsense.

553
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: It's not like it's it's it's just like, there's nothing

554
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: useful in that mess of what a contradicts of all

555
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: of all of the things to pick as an organization

556
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: that you shouldn't criticize the Catholic It's not incredible. Thanks

557
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: Jordan's um I I. I also love his It's one

558
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: of his ticks where he he like says a thing

559
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's like some ridiculous statements. Sometimes it's a

560
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: completely reasonable thing, and he's like, well, you know, good

561
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: luck with that. He just sort of like dismisses it

562
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: as though like that's the argument. For example, it seems

563
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: like after the Catholic Church system eickily sexually trafficked and

564
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: abused children and pushed for theocratic laws in Ireland that

565
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: got huge numbers of women killed and maimed as a

566
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: result of things like a topic pregnancies. Irish people in

567
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: very large numbers left the church and things are better. Well,

568
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: you know that's the evil uncle, right right, The evil

569
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: uncle is the uncle the Catholic priest. Yeah, I mean

570
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: not far off, but like, so when do you because

571
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: his whole thing is like don't are you? So you're like,

572
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: you're sixteen, you have no beliefs, and so go to

573
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: any church and if it disagrees with you, then you

574
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: should change it. But also you're not allowed to want

575
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: to change anything unless you're like life is perfect and

576
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: like in perfect order, so you're it's not yet because

577
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: you're sixteen, So like, don't do if anything, don't leave

578
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: your house, I guess, but to go to church you

579
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: don't believe in consistently frustrating to me about Peterson is

580
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: he does it like dropped, like the evil uncle, and

581
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: he does it in such a way as he's like

582
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: he's trying to impress you with by naming these archetypes

583
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: and like referencing the exactly and it's there's for an

584
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: example of kind of like how to do this and

585
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 1: not be a complete I don't know, some people will

586
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: disagree with this, but like what he's doing is not

587
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 1: fundamentally all that different if you sit down and listen

588
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: to Dan Harmon talk about like the story circle, which

589
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: is basically him taking the fucking hero's journey and putting

590
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: it into a way that you can pretty easily turn

591
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: into scripts. Right, that's all it is. It's not distills

592
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: it down to six steps, eight steps. Dan Harmon plenty

593
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: of things to criticize about the man, but all he's

594
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: actually he's not trying to say there's any sort of

595
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: like psychic resonance with that. He's being like, this is

596
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: a very simple, replicable way to tell a story in

597
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: a way that that people can can grasp onto. Right,

598
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: there's a reason and people like stories that have this.

599
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: You know, you do the thing, you change and then yeah,

600
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: Peterson is that rather than the evil uncle just like

601
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: being a thing that's in some movies and TV shows

602
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: because it's easy, I don't know, it's something that people

603
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: tend to like grasp onto. Um, it's just kind of

604
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: an easy way to to to tell a story, right,

605
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: Like it's scar in the in the Lion King. It's

606
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 1: not a complex story. There's not a ton going on there,

607
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: but it works. And like, but Peterson is taking it

608
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: as if and because this is like a trope that

609
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: is broadly functional in storytelling, that is meant for a

610
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: popular audience, it is indicative of something fundamental to human nature,

611
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 1: right as opposed to like, you know, first of all,

612
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: if you see a pattern, were we humans love to

613
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: see patterns, and we put undo emphasis and importance on

614
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: patterns even if they're it's not like a significant pattern.

615
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: But like what he's talking about most of the time

616
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: in this respect is like just stereotypes. Like if you

617
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: take like you said, like the lion king or Hamlet

618
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: or whatever. So Scar the evil uncle, if Scar had

619
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 1: a kid, Mufasa the kind uncle archetype, Like it's literally

620
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: like it's just these interchangeable things the qualities described in

621
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: like he's like the crone making a man and you

622
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: change the name and it's like, I don't know, ye,

623
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: all all of this can work, and it's like helpful

624
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: for people in situation. Like certainly, like like all of

625
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: these archetypes that he treats as if they're like something

626
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 1: sacred written into the back of the human soul are

627
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: just shortcuts to like very easily putting together a fucking

628
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: script for like a popular like specifically for a popular

629
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: fucking movie that's like most of the modern adaptations of

630
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: this ship like it's not none of this is like,

631
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: none of this is particularly resonant. And you can tell

632
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 1: that for a fact that the stories that are like

633
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: most popular are often the ones that that break some

634
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: of these rules. Like they're not actually fundamental to good storytelling.

635
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: They're just simple. Yeah, yeah, it's not. It's not necessarily

636
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: going to be the most compelling or interesting story if

637
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: you use all these archetypes or this like pattern, because

638
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: it's most stories their training wheels, their training wheels. If

639
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: you're starting out reading writing stories, or if you're getting

640
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 1: lost in the weeds, it can be an easy way

641
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: to like get something put together and then you can

642
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: do a better thing next time. Um, but I don't

643
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 1: know whatever. I get frustrated when people talk about fucking

644
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: archetypes like this. Well, so when you're talking about like

645
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: this and like applying it to like like fundamental like

646
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: institutions and elements of society, where it's like, these are

647
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: different conversations because like fucking the evil uncle is a

648
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: bad guy in a script because the script needs a

649
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: bad guy, because conflict is fun. The Catholic Church is

650
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: bad because they raped a bunch of kids and covered

651
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: it up. And that's a reason why maybe you would

652
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: not believe anything else they have to say, right, Like,

653
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: maybe it stems from certain aspects of their like core beliefs.

654
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly. Yeah, maybe there's fundamental things about

655
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: the structure of an organization like the Catholic Church that

656
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: are abusive. But Jordan Peterson fucking loves hierarchy, right and

657
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 1: just like in the inevitability of everything, right Like, Anyway,

658
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: if an institution is corrupt, it's because all institutions become corrupt.

659
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: Like ultimately, Um, it's not a problem with anything about

660
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: the institution. It is. Yes, it's corruption that that happens,

661
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: except for in my institutions that I like. So the

662
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: next session of the video asked Peterson to define what

663
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 1: makes a man? And this is the first point at

664
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 1: which I think someone like put together, Like maybe after

665
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: the first ten minutes of this were recorded, which probably

666
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: took three days, somebody like jotted down some fucking notes

667
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: into something resembling a script to try to put a

668
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: scaffolding on this motherfucker. Here we go. Yeah, definition, man, Ah,

669
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: why don't I a biologist, but as it happens, I

670
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: am a biologist. So no you're not. No, no you

671
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: no you're not. I felt like you reaction to that

672
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: he is absolutely not a fucking biologist. Oh my god,

673
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: you can say that you like I like, oh my god.

674
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: A scientists strong a physicist wouldn't say I'm a biologist

675
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: because you like know a lot about biology. Yeah, it's

676
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: it's very frustrating because like, yes, theoretically, like he has

677
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: a PhD in clinical psychology, there are clinical psychologists who

678
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: do biology right, because some of them are do neuroscience right,

679
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: elements of it exactly biology. But that's not what he does.

680
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: That's not what he does, and that's not that's just

681
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: not how people in the scientific community talk. Like he

682
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: says this about everything like it's if you it's funny

683
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: he would say, Like he would say, if he's describing, like, um,

684
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: what the Parado principle as, like it relates to black

685
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 1: holes or whatever, he would literally say, I'm an astrophysicist.

686
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, no. You maybe you know about

687
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: astrophysics and you have like knowledge in that field, but no,

688
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: like actual like reasonable like respectable scientists would just make

689
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: a claim like that. There's you go on in in

690
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: your three hour video of about Dr Jordan Peterson about

691
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: how he's fundamentally wrong about lobsters and the ship he

692
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: says about like narrow transmitters and lobsters. He's wrong about

693
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: a lot of important things, including that time he went

694
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: cold turkey off of benzos by going to some weird

695
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: clinic in Russia and nearly got himself killed. Um, but

696
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: I want to stick to stuff that he claims that

697
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: he makes in the video to prove that he's If

698
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: he is a biologist, he's a realist. Let's see, let's life.

699
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: You are so yeah, I I want to sorry. I

700
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: just have to like give him a little like in

701
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: good faith, you know, reasonable doubt. Some people's talk in

702
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: this way, like what you're saying, you're not saying. I'm

703
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: a biologist, just like I believe in biology. I have

704
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: knowledge of it, and I approach things from a biologist perspective,

705
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 1: is what he's trying to say. But that, but he

706
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: wasn't precise. He's at all precise in his speech, and

707
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: he's also about to be really wrong because after this

708
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: he goes on a little rant about how some people

709
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: are charitable, but they're not hard working or practical, so

710
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: they just wind up giving away other people's money and

711
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: that's bad. Um. What he's he says that the ideal

712
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: thing to be the essence of masculinity. In fact, this

713
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: is what he because he's again the section is where

714
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: he's trying to define a man. He says that the

715
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: essence of masculinity is productive generosity, which seems to he

716
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: seems to define as actually being a dick um because

717
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: he doesn't think that like generosity means being good to people.

718
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: He thinks it's like it's this weirder concept about how

719
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: well sometimes generosity is like being mean and withholding resources

720
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: from people who are going to to squander them, right. Um.

721
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: And as he's doing this, he attacks the concept of agreeableness.

722
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: And I want to play you this this part of

723
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: the episode, Cody, because this is we can nail it

724
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: to some science here. Yeah, we get into it. Basically,

725
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: an empathy dimension has no correlation whatsoever with success in

726
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: enterprise business creative domains. In fact, among managers, agreeableness looks

727
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 1: like it's slightly negatively correlated with success because hyper agreeable

728
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: managers can't say no. They can't discipline their employees, they

729
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: can't send limits, and they're susceptible to manipulation. So well, Cody,

730
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: that sounds like something that's falsifiable, right, That is a

731
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: that is a true or or false statement that he

732
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: just made. We can actually dig into research, it seems

733
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: like yeah, and it turns out we're really lucky here.

734
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 1: There was a massive meta analysis of studies published on

735
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: quote agreeable nous on it and its consequences just this year.

736
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: Researchers Michael Wilmot and Dennis Ones analyzed studies in folving

737
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: one point nine million participants, So pretty big meta analysis, right.

738
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: They concluded quote overall, the the trait has effects in

739
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: a desirable direction for ninety to variables. Professor Wilmot seemed

740
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: adamant that not only is Peterson wrong about the value

741
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: of agreeableness, he's specifically wrong about its impact on leaders.

742
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: Quote Michael Wilmot, assistant professor of Management at the University

743
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: of Arkansas, in a university release said, quote agreeableness is

744
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: the personality trait primarily concerned with helping people and building

745
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: positive relationships, which is not lost on organizational leaders. Taken altogether,

746
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: the interaction among things became clear. Professor Wilmot concludes agreeableness

747
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: was marked by work investment, but this energy was best

748
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: acted at helping or cooperating with others, in other words, teamwork.

749
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: So just he's exactly wrong and it took thirty seconds. Yeah,

750
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: they looked at these, like thousands of studies involving nearly

751
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,439
Speaker 1: two million people, and it turns out being agreeable really

752
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: works well into teams. And I don't know, Cody, you

753
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,959
Speaker 1: and I have both worked on teams. You know what's

754
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,240
Speaker 1: great is not working with assholes? Oh yeah, we don't

755
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 1: like that. It's not fun. Uh, it makes it unpleasant,

756
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 1: and you don't like the One of the most important

757
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: things in in particularly like uh comedy, like sketch comedy,

758
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: whatever is like yes, and which is fundamentally being agreeable.

759
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: It's not like trying to shut down a joke. It's

760
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: trying to expand it. You know. It's a plus, right, Yeah,

761
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: because that that works pretty well people people. It tends

762
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: to make for things that are funny. Well, it's fascinating

763
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 1: that people like working like people who aren't easy to

764
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: work with. Yeah, I love this and I really appreciate

765
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: that you instantly looked this up because he does this

766
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 1: all the time. He'll say like, I've read the literature

767
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: in this way, and then you look it up and

768
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: it's not that way. Or he'll make these broad claims

769
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: about these sort of things, and it's also stuff where

770
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: it's like, you are are a psychologist, that is your field,

771
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 1: and you're making these claims and I just looked it

772
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: up and you're wrong. Um, it's alarming that this man

773
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 1: is in this fine leather chair. It is, it is,

774
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: and it is a nice looking leather chair. Library. Whoever

775
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: they have directing putting the set decorations together, they made

776
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: a They made a very welcoming looking library boy one

777
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: million for the library for millions. I don't believe he's

778
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: read any of those books, but it's a nice looking library.

779
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:28,959
Speaker 1: He skimmed them for a few words that he could

780
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: say to reinforce his point. Yeah. So Jordan's view of

781
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 1: masculinity doesn't leave much room for teamwork. It becomes quickly

782
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: clear that he doesn't see management as a thing people

783
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: do in specific instances to help groups accomplished tasks, and

784
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 1: instead he sees management as how a healthy man looks

785
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: at every relationship in his life. And I mean management

786
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 1: the way that like a leader in an organization manages,

787
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: and Sophie, let's play that next clip. And then you

788
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: should be responsible for and productive for as many people

789
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,320
Speaker 1: as you can manage. And so that might be first

790
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 1: your intimate partner, your wife, second year, your parents, your siblings,

791
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: your your children, maybe your children primarily, although you know

792
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 1: there's a tradeoff there with your wife, So the split screen,

793
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:28,479
Speaker 1: it's just every time. Next, he says that you should

794
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 1: seek to manage your community and local government if it's

795
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: possible at all, and it's become it's pretty clear. I

796
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: think at this point that his version of masculinity is

797
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 1: nothing but control, and it's a specific sort of control

798
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: that's motivated by self hatred. And you get glimpses. I

799
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: don't think Peterson is even really super aware of it,

800
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 1: but you get glimpses of the centrality of self hatred

801
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: to his concept of masculinity, and these little gaps and

802
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 1: cracks like this one here go on all that responsibility

803
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: if you can in a sense that's both productive and generous,

804
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 1: that gives you something to do justify your miserable life

805
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: to yourself and everyone else, and you need to do

806
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 1: that um it. It orients you solidly in the world

807
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: if you do that, and it gives you a dragon

808
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 1: to fight, a real wood. And that's where the gold is.

809
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 1: So as everyone has known forever. Oh my god, oh

810
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: my god, oh my god, Robert, can we do an

811
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: ad break right now, just so that there's a gold please?

812
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: If you want to know where else the gold is,

813
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: check out the sponsors to this podcast, which apparently include

814
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: these this random gold scam company. Buy the gold and

815
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: give it to a dragon so you can fight it,

816
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: and then take the gold back and then it's yours again. Yeah, ah,

817
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: we're back. So I think all of that's really fucking silly. Um. Yeah,

818
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: it is a vice about being a person, yeah, he all.

819
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: He always sort of comes back to like and like,

820
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 1: you know, there are ways to say this and discuss this,

821
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 1: Like life is suffering and life is miserable and you

822
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: you suck and everything's bad. Um, but you're you need

823
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 1: to find you need to create a purpose is what

824
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: he's talking about. Oftentimes we're talking about what masculinity is,

825
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 1: right right, man, And like manages productive generosity, which means

826
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: managing every single being a being, a a hierarchical centralized

827
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: leader of every aspect of your life and every relationship

828
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: that you're involved with. And then once you're in control,

829
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: you should go seek out dragons to fight, using presumably

830
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 1: other people to do a lot of the fighting. Oh yeah,

831
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: you send him off to get the dragon so you

832
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: can get the cold. Um. It's yeah, he's always it

833
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: always circles. It's weird because he also, like he dismisses

834
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: this idea that certain things in society are about like power, Like, oh,

835
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: they say it's about powers, Like, no, it's not. It's

836
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: about this, it's about biology or like how men have

837
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: these fucking like you know, genes or whatever. Um. But

838
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,959
Speaker 1: ultimately he's just but then he comes back to this like, yeah,

839
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: you need like discontrol to do this. How do you

840
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: do that? Well, you need to have the power to

841
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: do that. Um. He he just always comes back to

842
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: just like, ultimately I be a strong man. We need

843
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: Being a man is being like a dictator in your life. Yeah.

844
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because like, obviously Jordan's the kind of

845
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: guy who like worships these quote unquote traditional like kind

846
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: of militarist values um and and hierarchy in that sense.

847
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: But if you actually look at like what makes the

848
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: best the most functional military hierarchies on the planet. Um,

849
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: they all are based around the idea that you should

850
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: have a really strong non commissioned officer core. And this

851
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: is certainly a kind of strict hierarchy, but it's a

852
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: hierarchy that is in a lot of ways less centralized

853
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 1: than the kind of pyramidal hierarchy the peters. It's it's

854
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 1: based around the idea that you should actually have a

855
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: lot of little leaders that are invest did in a

856
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: great degree of autonomy and whose expertise is respected. And oftentimes,

857
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: like if you have a unit, like a platoon, you

858
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: have an officer who's technically in charge, and then you

859
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: have an inn c O who is technically under him,

860
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: but who was generally recognized as actually being more expert

861
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, and both of them like

862
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: take on different tasks. And that's necessary for actually effectively

863
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: leading a unit through combat because you're talking about working together. Yeah,

864
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 1: I'm talking about like working together. Um. Yeah, it's it's

865
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: all these these ideas, and it requires a great deal

866
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 1: an effective functioning effectively as a unit in any kind

867
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 1: of like strenuous or dangerous situation. Does at times require

868
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 1: there being a person who is saying, like, do this

869
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: and do that, because sometimes that's necessary when you're trying

870
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 1: to accomplish goals under stress. But the thing that requires

871
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: most of all is like mutual respect um, and an

872
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: understanding of people's talents and an ability to of subordinates autonomy,

873
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: because organizations that don't do those things can survive if

874
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: there's not a danger being put on them, if there's

875
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 1: not like a threat, But if you're actually being threatened,

876
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: you want as much intelligence to be available from the

877
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: organization as possible, and you only get that by giving

878
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 1: people the ability to act with a degree of autonomy.

879
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 1: That doesn't sound very productively generous of you, though. Yeah,

880
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 1: we can talk a lot about like the Ukrainian military

881
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 1: versus the Russian one, but let's move on. Um. So

882
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: his next question is, oh, actually this kind of ties

883
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: into that, how should you arm yourself? Um? And the

884
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 1: answer that Peterson gives is a humanities education, um, which

885
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: is interesting to me. That is interesting. Yeah, and he

886
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: thinks that he kind of defines a good education the

887
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: humanities is reading great men into his credit. He says,

888
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: great women too. Um. He's actually pretty careful about that

889
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: in that so I'll give you, I'll give you a

890
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:00,479
Speaker 1: thumbs up. Dr only took eight years. Yeah, So after

891
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: this we get an extended rant about how if you

892
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: either lie or you just say things you don't fully

893
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: believe in, Like if you alter your own beliefs to

894
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: like write an essay to get a good grade for

895
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: a teacher, to impress someone, then you're letting someone else

896
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: control and speak for you, which is kind of like

897
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: basically letting a demonic spirit run your body. Um. This

898
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 1: is interesting for two reasons. Actually, one is that he

899
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: says this all the time. This is another one of

900
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: another one like thing, where's like why does this show exist?

901
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: This is just everything you've ever said in your like

902
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: your books and stuff. Um, but also, uh, Ben Shapiro

903
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: has literally said the opposite, Like he his advice to

904
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: his advice to people at school is to do what

905
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: he did, which is just regurgitate everything is law, professor said,

906
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 1: pretend that he believes it so that he can like

907
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 1: pass the grade. And I'm never gonna say this about

908
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro, but like that's a valuable life skill. Like

909
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: sometimes you're gonna get pulled over by a cop, and

910
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,359
Speaker 1: you're gonna need the light of that police officer so

911
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: that you don't suffer consequences that will fuck your life up. Right. Sometimes,

912
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: perhaps you're trying to get on an airplane and you

913
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: have a bag that's over the limit, and being able

914
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: to like lie about it and convince someone not to

915
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 1: weigh it is a useful life skill because then you

916
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: don't you're not out fifty dollars. Sometimes you sit down

917
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 1: with someone who's maybe kind of a crazy asshole, and

918
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 1: it's just the easiest thing and the safest thing to

919
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: not engage with them over some of the things that

920
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: they're saying. If it's not you know, I'm not saying

921
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: don't engage with racists, but a lot of people are

922
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 1: just assholes in ways that it's like, I don't need

923
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: to you don't need to argue with you. Sometimes you

924
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: just be like, okay, okay, let's in the interaction and

925
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 1: smile at them. That's a useful life skill. People who

926
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 1: are able to do those things, who are able to

927
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,720
Speaker 1: understand how to I don't need to be totally honest

928
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,839
Speaker 1: right now. I also I can just in the interaction,

929
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 1: and I want to do that in a pleasant way.

930
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: So I'm just going to pretend like I don't think

931
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: this person is dumb as ship right, Like that's fine, Yeah,

932
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: but his his sort of assumption, I think, And maybe

933
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: he's changed his mind since is that like if you

934
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:07,879
Speaker 1: if you do that, and you do it like more

935
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: than a few times, you'll start believing the things that

936
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 1: you're that you're allowing to be said. I've lied to

937
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: a lot of cops about having weed in the car,

938
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: and I've never thought that my car back in the

939
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: day didn't have weed in it and didn't deserve to

940
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 1: have weed in it, didn't deserve to have We met exactly. Um. Anyway, whatever,

941
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: the good thing about this rant is that it gives

942
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,720
Speaker 1: us another little moment of accidental honesty from Dr Peterson.

943
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 1: I think, well, God, that was a miserable life. I

944
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:40,240
Speaker 1: manipulated everybody. They were so damn stupid. They were sucked

945
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: in by it. They're all contemptible everyone doesn't you know,

946
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 1: which they don't by the way, And so that's a

947
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:50,879
Speaker 1: pathway to bitterness. Pathway to bitterness, huh, pathway to bitterness. Um.

948
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: He kind of I feel like he's talking about himself there.

949
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it. I feel like that Peterson

950
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: often comes off as a bitter old man. Yeah. I

951
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 1: think he's a bitter old man. And I think he's

952
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 1: bitter because the only thing he's done with his life

953
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:09,919
Speaker 1: is manipulate people. Um. And it's he says again. He

954
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 1: talks a lot about how there's no difference between the

955
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 1: spirit of manipulation taking you over in demonic possession, and

956
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 1: he's the only thing that stopped him from being canceled

957
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: is that he's a fundamentally honest person. Which is fun

958
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: because Jordan got famous for claiming that Canadian Bill C

959
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: sixteen was going to force people to use ginger neutral

960
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:29,240
Speaker 1: pronouns for non binary and transgender identities and legally punish

961
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: them if they didn't, that people were going to be

962
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: literally thrown into prison. Um. He gave a lot of

963
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 1: interviews saying like, I think some of the things that

964
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: I say in my lectures now might be illegal. I

965
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: think they might even be sufficient for me to be

966
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,720
Speaker 1: brought before the Ontario Human Rights Commission under their amended

967
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: hate speech laws. This has never happened, Nothing like this

968
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: has ever happened in Canada to Dr Peterson or to

969
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 1: anyone else. He was completely full of shit. Um. You know, yeah,

970
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 1: the first video, I mean, the first video he shared

971
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 1: about that topic was like professor against political correctness. You

972
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: know exactly what is doing, and it's it's like if

973
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 1: you actually look at the and if you actually talk

974
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,839
Speaker 1: to any of the Canadian legal experts about what this

975
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: law meant and what the actual because there is a

976
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 1: threshold at which hate speech is criminal in Canada, and

977
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: the threshold is pretty high. You would have to be

978
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 1: literally advocating for genocide. You would you would be having

979
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 1: to try to incite a genocide, which number one, None

980
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: of whatever you want to say. His comments back then

981
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 1: did not cross that line. And apparently no one's has

982
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 1: because no one has. No one's been prosecuted for this.

983
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: There's been no criminal cases as a result of this. Um.

984
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 1: I might argue that perhaps there should have been, but whatever. Um.

985
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 1: So Peterson veers from this into an unhinged dissection of

986
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:45,320
Speaker 1: sleeping beauty. He really he's he's got an old school

987
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: Disney fixation and I'm just gonna have well because they're

988
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: the old stories, right, their fairy tales, the evil You're

989
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: not ones that are exactly anyway. Here's Jordan Peterson, So

990
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: what can you arm yourself with? You know? In Sleeping Beauty,

991
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: when the Prince he's entrapped in the in that castle

992
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: by uh Maleficent, who's the ultimate edible mother, she transforms

993
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: herself into a dragon, which everyone seems to just take

994
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: as a matter of course, because of course the evil

995
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: which transforms herself into a dragon, Like, why we think

996
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: that's logical is a deep question, an oar contemptic question.

997
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: But anyways, he's armed with the sword of truth, and

998
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: I believe it's the shield of virtue, but the sword

999
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 1: of truth. And that's it's a corny trope in some sense,

1000
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: but it's not corny at all, because how could falsehood

1001
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 1: prevail against truth? How could that possibly be the case?

1002
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: If if what is true reflects what is real, how

1003
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 1: can what is unreal prevail against what is real? And so,

1004
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 1: you know, I love when he does stuff like that.

1005
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: And then he's like and so and he's like, wait,

1006
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: what were they talking about? Yeah? At all, First off,

1007
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: Jordan's we accept it when the witch turns into a

1008
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 1: dragon because it is a fantasy cartoon and she's a witch.

1009
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: So even though witches don't always turn into dragons, and

1010
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: movies in fact, usually don't. In movies with witches, we're

1011
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: all like, yeah, whatever, Like she she just did a

1012
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: bunch of fucking gobbledegoot magic. It's fine, Like there's there's

1013
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: fucking like even just like okay, yeah, she's doing magic

1014
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: and stuff. She turned to a dragon. She's deceiving whether

1015
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: it's like her true form or she's turning to a

1016
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 1: dragon deceiving him. I've got the sort of truth like

1017
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: he was right the first time. It's a little corny trope,

1018
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: it's little on the nose. It's it's like he's just

1019
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: he's taking this like visual metaphor or like his imagery

1020
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 1: and being like, wow, yeah, truth is important, Like it's

1021
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 1: just like what Yeah, it's like if it's like if

1022
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: Jordan Peters And watched Happy Gilmore and was talking about

1023
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 1: the scene where he does a subway ad and he's like,

1024
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 1: we accept the subway ad because somehow fundamentally there's something

1025
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: about human beings that make them want to sell five

1026
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 1: dollar sandwiches. No, we accept the subway ad because there

1027
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: was a lot of advertising and movies at the time,

1028
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: and it was clearly a joke about that as well,

1029
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 1: Like it's anyway, whatever, Dr Peterson, I watched Happy Gilmore

1030
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 1: recently holds up, um find uh quite good film, you know.

1031
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: Weirdly enough, Shooter McGavin is the same as the fed

1032
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 1: from the Iron Giant. Oh oh I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway,

1033
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: so it's all, it's all good. Um, it's all. His

1034
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: entire argument here just rests on like this very ridiculous tautology.

1035
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: If what is true reflects what is real, how can

1036
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 1: what is unreal prevail over what is real? Well, I

1037
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 1: don't know. If you lie and you get a crowd

1038
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 1: of people to believe man committed a crime that he

1039
00:59:57,640 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: didn't commit, and then you get them to lynch that

1040
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: man so you can take his stuff, it seems like

1041
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: what is unreal can prevail over what is real, and

1042
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: does so regularly, like look at like his any like

1043
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 1: historical record, Like yeah, it happens all the time. It works,

1044
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 1: what he talstantly works, what of the most successful strategies

1045
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: in all of history? Because also because he'll and he'll

1046
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 1: because he talks about these things too. He talks about

1047
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: like oh like different regimes and their propaganda and how

1048
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 1: effective it is, and like it's talked about Nazi. Well,

1049
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 1: he talked about Nazi Germany being this weird collect example,

1050
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 1: but like there's whole families of people who exist because

1051
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 1: at some point someone was asked, are you hiding a

1052
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 1: Jewish family in your house? And they said no, Like

1053
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: it turns out but how But did they not have

1054
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: the sort of truth like no, they were good at

1055
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: lying and that's an important life skill. Um, anyway, one

1056
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: like not yeah, it's it's it's very on because a

1057
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: lot of like, not only is this stupid, this is

1058
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 1: advice that is almost tailor made to create failures of people.

1059
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 1: Listen to this portion where he complains that people who

1060
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: do the writing they're assigned by their teachers just to

1061
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 1: get a grade, are like inherently breaking some sort of

1062
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: moral law. Wait, okay, check this out. Why right, Well,

1063
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 1: maybe you're writing about something important and if you're not,

1064
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: then it's just a lie the whole enterprise. So write

1065
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:32,439
Speaker 1: about something important. Why do you want to? Right, Well,

1066
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 1: so that you can think that's what you're doing when

1067
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: you're writing revelation. Here's some ideas I have. You do

1068
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: your research. Here's some ideas I have. I'll get them down,

1069
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 1: then i'll edit the idea, so only keep the best ideas. Well,

1070
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: now I know how to think about that. Now I

1071
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 1: know how to perceive that. Now I know how to

1072
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 1: act on that. Well, now you know how to perceive

1073
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: an act in relationship to something difficult. Well that's why

1074
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 1: you learn to write, so you can think. And you

1075
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:02,479
Speaker 1: know everyone says to their children and think before you act. Well,

1076
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 1: why so you can not do stupid things? So why

1077
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 1: st so you don't do stupid things? Why not the

1078
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 1: stupid things? Stupid things perhaps like getting addicted to benzos

1079
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: while leading nothing but red meat for months, and then

1080
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 1: letting your daughter take you to a weird Russian clinic

1081
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 1: where you do a cold turkey detox so dangerous it

1082
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 1: nearly kills you, leaves you in a coma, and results

1083
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: in you becoming a broken shell of a man who

1084
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 1: cries at random during podcast interviews and can't sleep for

1085
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 1: thirty days after drinking a supersider. Like it's another like

1086
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 1: a lot of people just do essays because they need

1087
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: to get the grade, because they're paying like even dollars

1088
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 1: to take this fucking class. Also, like, there are a

1089
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:47,959
Speaker 1: lot of ways that like to learn how to think

1090
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 1: and like different processes and again like pattern recognition and

1091
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 1: all these sort of like logic and reasoning and whatnot. Oftentimes,

1092
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 1: learning to write is to it's not to think, it's

1093
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 1: to communicate your thoughts. Um, it is what he's really

1094
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: trying to say. Oh so this is like a thing

1095
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: he said again is another one of those like heard

1096
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 1: this ninety times from this guy. Uh. But it's just

1097
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 1: like Jordan's. If being a good writer meant you were

1098
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: a good thinker, then writers would be famous for being

1099
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 1: well adjusted people with healthy habits rather than like the

1100
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: most comprehensively broken career field in in in the entirety

1101
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 1: of the arts and sciences. Like name a famous writer, uh,

1102
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 1: and and then name what they're famous for outside of

1103
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 1: their books, And it's probably the fact that their life

1104
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:46,040
Speaker 1: is a disaster, right, And like it's not that, Which

1105
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: is not to say that you need to have a

1106
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 1: disaster of a life to be a writer. It's just

1107
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 1: to say that writing well does not mean you know

1108
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:54,480
Speaker 1: how to think well. Right, You can communicate. Again, you

1109
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: can communicate your thoughts that you're having. You have these

1110
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 1: orson Scott Card be beautiful writer, dogshit opinions about the world. Also,

1111
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: I love this idea that like, if you watch the video,

1112
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: he's using his hands a lot and talking about you

1113
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: write it and then it's this big, long thing and

1114
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 1: then you edit it down to just the best ideas.

1115
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone listening has seen maps of meaning.

1116
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:21,080
Speaker 1: I don't think it had an editor code. It's like

1117
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 1: thousand page uh diagram of a dragon. It's um So,

1118
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe you should write more to learn

1119
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 1: how to think better. But it's like you're learning how

1120
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 1: to put forth an argument, not necessarily how to no.

1121
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 1: And that's that's the thing that he says, right, Like

1122
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 1: that he's actually saying here, which is that like the

1123
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 1: goal of writing is to like make an argument, to

1124
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:51,480
Speaker 1: convince somebody about the way you think, rather than just

1125
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 1: trying to like explain a thing or describe a thing.

1126
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:57,920
Speaker 1: It's about like everything else. For Jordan's it's about domination.

1127
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 1: So if he played that, played this next clip right?

1128
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 1: So why right? How about so you can take your

1129
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 1: place in the world, Not so you can please the

1130
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 1: teacher and be some obedient like lap dog. You need

1131
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 1: to know how to think and speak so you can

1132
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 1: lead and think and and conceptualize and and in trance.

1133
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 1: He does the thing again where you can see his

1134
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 1: like he just kind of goes away for a second

1135
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:31,320
Speaker 1: name when he says hind in trance, and it's I

1136
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: would say, pretty unsettling. Yeah, well, like because again it's

1137
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 1: like in trance, entrancing implies deception. Yeah, um, which seems

1138
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 1: contradictory to what he's trying to say, but yeah, it's

1139
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:51,160
Speaker 1: it's the he what he What he makes clear in

1140
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: this next clip is that, yeah, writing is just a

1141
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 1: tool for domination, because that's the actual only task worth achieving.

1142
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 1: To Jordan's pen is mightier than sword. It's there's no

1143
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 1: comparison the sword, you know, Yeah, fair enough, and you

1144
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 1: want to be careful of someone who wields the sword,

1145
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 1: but you wield the pen in a mighty manner. Nothing

1146
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 1: stops you. Ever. H that's assuming too, that you're oriented,

1147
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: you know, in some noble manner. He does use the

1148
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 1: word oriented like a lot. Yeah, it's it sounds smarter

1149
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 1: to him than like facing or directed or whatever, like, Yeah,

1150
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just like, why do we need

1151
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 1: so many words to say the phrase that he already said.

1152
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 1: He said, he said the common phrase the pen is

1153
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 1: mightier than the sword, and then he like started to

1154
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 1: talk about it for a long time. It's like I

1155
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 1: don't need that I have the phrase yeah, And it's

1156
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 1: also again it's it's one of I love. The pen

1157
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 1: is mightier than the sword is like a fucking because

1158
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 1: it's useless, right, It's a completely useless statement, because no,

1159
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 1: the pen is not mightier than the sword. Um, the

1160
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 1: argument is, like, the actual thing that is true is that, like, well,

1161
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: ideas can cause like Titanic shifts and can get lots

1162
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 1: of people killed and can be sort of the beginning

1163
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 1: point the well spring of a tremendous amount of power, right,

1164
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 1: and ideas can be written down and often are, And

1165
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 1: that's true. But like the fact that like the Nazis

1166
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: wrote a lot of books and propaganda that was instrumental

1167
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 1: in them gaining power, didn't mean that, like their ability

1168
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:31,959
Speaker 1: to beat the ship out of and shoot people wasn't

1169
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,160
Speaker 1: also instrumental in game. And a lot of people who

1170
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 1: did that weren't convinced because of like writing or propaganda,

1171
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 1: but because they wanted power and wealth and saw this

1172
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:42,040
Speaker 1: is the best way to get it. And like we're

1173
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: acting out of grave and self interest and kind of

1174
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:47,600
Speaker 1: an in tandem thing again, saying that just saying the

1175
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 1: pen is mightier than the sword is a meaningless statement.

1176
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 1: So he's not because he's not talking about that right

1177
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 1: because he's he had to he had to qualify with

1178
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 1: like well as long as it's oriented towards like moral

1179
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 1: good or wherever we phrased it. Uh. Oh, he's not

1180
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 1: even talking about like in his view like bad guys

1181
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 1: with a pen. No, So what's it? Saw? This qualification

1182
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 1: seems like this. It's fucking trash, Cody, and it's trash

1183
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 1: that we're gonna let's sit for today and finish this

1184
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 1: episode up when we come back in part two of this,

1185
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 1: he talks so much about things and nothing at all

1186
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 1: everything and he looks, I don't know, Kermit, the frog,

1187
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 1: I do like that where we've got it, where we've

1188
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:36,439
Speaker 1: got it paused right now, there's like a little you

1189
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 1: can see a little wattle starting to form on the

1190
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 1: side of his neck like I'm seeing for Peterson's just

1191
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:45,679
Speaker 1: just like a frog's pouch. So I don't know. Maybe

1192
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:49,599
Speaker 1: Dr Jordan Peterson is a lizard man. Let's go see

1193
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 1: if David Ike has an opinion on that. Cody any

1194
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 1: thing to pluck all the time, every day. Um, you know,

1195
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 1: my name is Cody john Been. Uh like you said

1196
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 1: the top some more news, even more news, go google it.

1197
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:09,719
Speaker 1: We got three hours on this guy we're talking about character.

1198
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 1: Your name is Cody Johnson. Has anyone n sorry, has

1199
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 1: it guy ever called you see Gisel? No? Well technically yes,

1200
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 1: because you just did. There. We got episodes over. Oh good.

1201
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1202
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1203
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 1: zone media dot com, or check us out on the

1204
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1205
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 1: your podcasts.