Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace joining me right now is
Speaker 1: a longtime colleague and dare I say friend, Doctor Kendall Crowns.
Speaker 1: You know him well and he is launching an incredible podcast.
Speaker 1: He is joined by his all star panel behind him.
Speaker 1: He always has a full blown skeleton and a skull.
Speaker 1: You know that doesn't come along every day a guy
Speaker 1: that travels with a skeleton and a skull. Doctor Kendall
Speaker 1: Crowns is always the star of the show. Always. I
Speaker 1: could listen to him for hours and I have. Doctor
Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns is a renowned medical examiner, typically joining us
Speaker 1: out of Tyrant County. That's Fort Worth. As I like
Speaker 1: to say, never a lack of business in the Morgue
Speaker 1: in Fort Worth. He is an esteemed lecturer at the
Speaker 1: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, and he is launching
Speaker 1: Mayhem in the Morgue. Now. You may think that medical
Speaker 1: examiners are dry as dust. Not true. When I listened
Speaker 1: to his first episode of Mayhem in the Morgue, it
Speaker 1: made me laugh, it made me sad, but most of all,
Speaker 1: it made me curious, very curious. Doctor Kendall Crown's thank
Speaker 1: you for being with us.
Speaker 2: Of course, thank you, Nancy.
Speaker 1: Tell me how you got in the business.
Speaker 2: So how I got interested in forensic pathology and ultimately
Speaker 2: became a medical examiner is my dad was a criminologist,
Speaker 2: and so when I grew up, it wasn't we heard
Speaker 2: the stories like Doctor Seuss and things of that nature.
Speaker 2: We actually heard about helter skelter and crime scenes and
Speaker 2: things of that nature. One of the books I had
Speaker 2: as a that I absolutely loved was called A Catalog
Speaker 2: of Crime, and it just had stories after stories of
Speaker 2: convicted murderers and what they did and all those things,
Speaker 2: and I always just found it fascinating. As a kid,
Speaker 2: I'd sit in his library at the house and just
Speaker 2: flip through the different books, looking at all the different pictures,
Speaker 2: and it just was part of my life. And when
Speaker 2: I was getting older and I thought I wanted to
Speaker 2: be a doctor, my dad said to me, Hey, you know,
Speaker 2: there's this thing called a forensic pathologist or a medical examiner,
Speaker 2: and I know the local one, and you want to
Speaker 2: go see an autopsy? And I thought that sounded great.
Speaker 2: I went to the medical examiner's office and saw my
Speaker 2: first autopsy, and it just was incredible to me. It
Speaker 2: was a suicide, a single gunshot wounded the head, and
Speaker 2: I thought it was the most interesting thing I had
Speaker 2: ever seen in my life. And at the end of
Speaker 2: the autopsy, said to the medical examiner, how do I
Speaker 2: become you? And he told me, well, you know, you
Speaker 2: got to go to college, you got to finish medical school,
Speaker 2: and then he'd do residency and then eventually you're a
Speaker 2: forensic pathologist. And that's what I did. From that moment on,
Speaker 2: I did everything I could to become a medical examiner.
Speaker 2: I bought books about it. When I was in college,
Speaker 2: I was a autopsy tech, and when I was in residency,
Speaker 2: I did autopsy tech work on the side to make
Speaker 2: a little extra money. And then I also worked at
Speaker 2: the medical Examiner's office on the weekend as well because
Speaker 2: my residency program would pay for it. So I've just
Speaker 2: kind of always been around it. And it really started
Speaker 2: in ninth grade in nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 1: Wow, talking about you growing up looking at crime scene
Speaker 1: photos and talking about cases with your dad. I will
Speaker 1: never forget when John David we were watching something, it
Speaker 1: was a murder mystery on BritBox, and he jumped up
Speaker 1: and said, where's the PC Probable calls, and in my
Speaker 1: mind I ticked a box brainwashing complete and I'll never forget.
Speaker 1: We were actually talking about Jody Arius and Lucy said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's a guilty girlfriend that changed her story three times.
Speaker 1: I was so happy. I could not have been prouder
Speaker 1: of my sweet little girl that said. Can I ask
Speaker 1: you how did you get women? I mean, you certainly
Speaker 1: can't say I hang around the morgone weekends. That's not
Speaker 1: sexy unless you target another medical examiner. I mean, or
Speaker 1: do you just say I'm going to medical school That
Speaker 1: usually works and leave out the dead body part? How
Speaker 1: did you manage to somehow catch missus Kendall Crown.
Speaker 2: My wife, Beth, is not in the medical field. She
Speaker 2: had worked as a volunteer emergency medical technician, but we
Speaker 2: met by happenstance at a comic book store where one
Speaker 2: of my do nothing friends was hanging out or was working,
Speaker 2: and I would go there after getting done with rotations
Speaker 2: in medical school, and then he and I would go
Speaker 2: play pool at a local pool hall, and she happened
Speaker 2: to come in there because she knew the owner and
Speaker 2: was dropping something off, and we met and we started talking,
Speaker 2: and two months later I finally got up the nerve
Speaker 2: to ask her out, which is one of the most
Speaker 2: pathetic asking out moments of all time, which I.
Speaker 1: Got to hear the whole thing.
Speaker 2: Tell me, I learned when I used to vandalize things
Speaker 2: that when duct tape catches on fire, it smells like pine.
Speaker 2: And I told her that so I and she was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's interesting. And I said, well, you know, I have
Speaker 2: a roll of duct tape in my car. I could
Speaker 2: show you.
Speaker 1: And she was like, away, I got to meet this woman.
Speaker 1: Because when you say, hey, baby, I got duct tape
Speaker 1: in the car, everybody runs you say, nothing but tailhole
Speaker 1: on elbows. But your wife, Oddleie was attracted to that.
Speaker 2: She could take me to fight. I'll just say that.
Speaker 2: So we went out to the car and I got
Speaker 2: out the roll of duct tape, rolled it up, a
Speaker 2: little piece of it and lit it with my car lighter,
Speaker 2: and sure enough it smelled like pine. And I said
Speaker 2: the classic nag.
Speaker 1: Talking charmer, silver tong ken little Crown's okay, so that's
Speaker 1: how you managed to get your wife. Now you were mentioning,
Speaker 1: it's a story. I didn't know you were mentioning the
Speaker 1: first time you saw an autopsy. I believe you said
Speaker 1: it was a suicide by shooting. You know, isn't it interesting?
Speaker 1: You never forget your first.
Speaker 2: That's correct, you really don't. It was through them through
Speaker 2: gun shoveling in the head. The guy was playing Russian ulette.
Speaker 2: He was drunk and shot himself in the head contact
Speaker 2: range wound. And one of the things I always remember
Speaker 2: is they took out his liver and it was bright
Speaker 2: yellow instead of the normal brown. And I asked the doctor,
Speaker 2: I go, why is it discolor Then he said, oh,
Speaker 2: that's from drinking. You know, it causes damage to your
Speaker 2: liver and all that.
Speaker 1: Right? Yellow? Like what yellow are you talking about? Because
Speaker 1: I've got to know the answer to this, Like what yellow?
Speaker 1: Like yellow? Mustard yellow, like kind.
Speaker 2: Of a bright yellow, like a French's mustard yellow.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to tell my children if you drink
Speaker 1: when you go to college, your liver will turn yellow,
Speaker 1: ask doctor Kendall Crowns.
Speaker 2: That's because it's a toxic.
Speaker 1: I have another question for then. I'm going to get
Speaker 1: to your radio show, uh Dtor Kendall Crowns. When you go,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you even do out to dinner
Speaker 1: or you go to a party of some sort, do
Speaker 1: you find yourself totally bored out of your skull unless
Speaker 1: people are talking about murder or crime.
Speaker 2: So usually when I go out to dinner, it's a bout.
Speaker 2: We talk about other things in my workplace, but parties.
Speaker 1: Actually around other people.
Speaker 2: I don't have a lot of friends, Nancy, But anyway,
Speaker 2: when i'm mad to behind you, there's the perfect friends.
Speaker 2: They don't talk.
Speaker 1: But by the way, I've never asked you that, have
Speaker 1: you named them? No? I have not, So I'm going
Speaker 1: to come up with names. I'm not going to do
Speaker 1: it on the spot because I may think better of
Speaker 1: it later. So when you're around other people that are
Speaker 1: not in the business, are you or do they totally
Speaker 1: bore you? Or am I just projecting? Because when I
Speaker 1: go somewhere and somebody tries to talk about politics, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'll be right back, or if they were anything, because
Speaker 1: when it's in your blood, it's in your blood and
Speaker 1: everything else seems low watted.
Speaker 2: Well, I agree with you on that, although when I'm
Speaker 2: around other people, I like to just talk to them
Speaker 2: and hear their stories and get information about them because
Speaker 2: I find people to be fascinating in that regards, because
Speaker 2: you never know when you're talking to someone what else
Speaker 2: they got going on at home, because who knows, they
Speaker 2: might have a you know, a sex dungeon in the
Speaker 2: basement that they're never going to tell you about. But
Speaker 2: one day you'll think.
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny that your mind to go immediately
Speaker 1: to sex dungeon in the basement. You could have said anything,
Speaker 1: but you went with sex dungeon in the basement. I'm
Speaker 1: not ashamed that people that means something only to you,
Speaker 1: which brings to mind Rex hereer men, I've got so
Speaker 1: many cases I could ask you about, but I really
Speaker 1: want to talk about you, So just give me. I
Speaker 1: think i've heard it. Give me a tiny taste. Don't
Speaker 1: give away the end if it's the one I'm thinking about,
Speaker 1: which was awesome. What is your first story on your
Speaker 1: first radio show, translation podcast Mayhem in the Morgue. What's
Speaker 1: the first one about? Don't give away the end?
Speaker 2: The first one is when I am on the first
Speaker 2: day of my forensic pathology rotation in medical school. I
Speaker 2: arrived at the office and right away they get a
Speaker 2: phone call in that there's a possible homicide crime scene,
Speaker 2: and we go out there and I'm super excited, you know,
Speaker 2: it's first day. I get to see this really exciting thing.
Speaker 2: And we get out to the scene. It turns out
Speaker 2: to not be a homicide.
Speaker 1: We just had to cut Doctor Crown's giving away the end.
Speaker 1: I can't believe I just said, don't give away the end,
Speaker 1: and you gave away the end. But I will say
Speaker 1: that near the end, something shoots out of the victims behind.
Speaker 2: That's correct, that would be the true the end of
Speaker 2: that situation.
Speaker 1: Stop, don't say another word now. Can I ask you,
Speaker 1: while I know your two friends behind you, I've always
Speaker 1: wondered what is on that pillow? It looks like the
Speaker 1: evil Eye, four of them multicolor. What is that?
Speaker 2: My daughter is an ad crowcheer and she made that
Speaker 2: pillow for me.
Speaker 1: Wait tell me about your daughter. Don't give me any names.
Speaker 2: She has a degree in computer science and is now
Speaker 2: getting a degree in geology or a master's degree in
Speaker 2: geology and then trying to pursue a paleontology career. But
Speaker 2: she is. She really loves to crochet, and she really
Speaker 2: loves her bones and dinosaurs. And we just went out
Speaker 2: with her a couple of weeks ago to a dig
Speaker 2: site so she could look for dinosaur bones for her
Speaker 2: master's project.
Speaker 1: Wow. You know, because when you and I talk, it's
Speaker 1: always about dissecting a dead body and figuring out the
Speaker 1: cod cause of death and tissue and DNA and body cavities.
Speaker 1: I rarely ask you about Beth, your wife or your daughter.
Speaker 1: Are there any other children I need to know about?
Speaker 2: So? I have a total of five children, two girls,
Speaker 2: three boy. So my oldest is the largest one wife.
Speaker 2: That's correct?
Speaker 1: And uh okay, so I don't need to ask what
Speaker 1: you do in your spare time.
Speaker 2: Five children, that's correct.
Speaker 1: Just give me the breakdown? How many boys and how
Speaker 1: many girls?
Speaker 2: Three boys? Two girls?
Speaker 1: Wow? Okay, I always wanted four, but when I got
Speaker 1: the two that I have, I knew I was lucky
Speaker 1: in anyone to quit. Obviously, some people don't know where
Speaker 1: babies come from, and amazing you're a doctor, doctor Kendall Crowns.
Speaker 1: Where Okay, you know where they come from, but do
Speaker 1: you know how they got there?
Speaker 2: Oh? I know that too. I also know how to
Speaker 2: take them out and can't put it back in.
Speaker 1: Though, so you really do? So how happy are you
Speaker 1: that you're a medical examiner and not let's just say,
Speaker 1: a plastic surgeon, or I don't know, let's just go
Speaker 1: a plastic surgeon.
Speaker 2: Well, plastic surgery is a funny one because that is
Speaker 2: one of the rotations in medical school that was actually
Speaker 2: pretty good at and they told me that I should
Speaker 2: think about going into that, but I did not want
Speaker 2: to do the surgery lifestyle where you were constantly at
Speaker 2: work and on call and all the stress associated with that.
Speaker 2: I really loved being forensic pathology from the beginning of
Speaker 2: medical school, and my mind never changed throughout all the rotations,
Speaker 2: and I really actually enjoy what I do on a
Speaker 2: daily basis. It's always different, it's always something exciting, and
Speaker 2: you get to do testify, you get to do autopsies.
Speaker 2: It's just it's a great job. I cannot complain. I'm
Speaker 2: very happy with my life.
Speaker 1: Do you normally have people in the room with you
Speaker 1: when you perform an autopsy or you normally by yourself?
Speaker 2: So usually an autopsy, when you're doing the autopsies, there's
Speaker 2: usually two to three other doctors working in the room
Speaker 2: with you, to autopsy technicians to a body. So the
Speaker 2: room is very loud and a lot of people moving around,
Speaker 2: a lot of talking noise, of the saws, the cutting
Speaker 2: and all that. So it's actually not very quiet. It's
Speaker 2: very very very noisy, very stimulating, and there's usually music
Speaker 2: playing there.
Speaker 1: We'll say, you know, doctor Kendall Crowns, that's not the
Speaker 1: way it is on TV and movies. There's always a
Speaker 1: medical examiner and everything's pristining quiet, you know. It made
Speaker 1: me think back to days as a trial lawyer, where
Speaker 1: there was so much happening in the courtroom. People were
Speaker 1: coming in and out, spectators getting up and down talking
Speaker 1: behind me, the defense attorneys whining and gnashing their teeth
Speaker 1: and twitching their tails on the other side of the room.
Speaker 1: But you zone completely out of all that and focus
Speaker 1: on what you're doing. It's like all of that just disappears.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even be conscious of it. I remember, this
Speaker 1: is funny. The first time I'm court TV, where I
Speaker 1: later went to work, covered a case of mine that
Speaker 1: was when women still had to wear pantyhose, and I
Speaker 1: was so not focusing on anything but the case. They
Speaker 1: got me from behind hitching up my pantyhose as they
Speaker 1: inevitably would start going down now in the middle of
Speaker 1: its trial. So you totally zone out and focus on
Speaker 1: nothing but what you're doing. On the other hand, I
Speaker 1: also loved being in the law library on weekends when
Speaker 1: it would be totally quiet and I would be completely
Speaker 1: alone with my legal thoughts and analysis. After you perform
Speaker 1: the autopsy, when do you do all of the written reports.
Speaker 1: You probably dictate during the autopsy.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I dictate during the case, and sometimes I wait
Speaker 2: till after. It just depends on the complexity of the case.
Speaker 2: If it's a multiple gunshot wound with multiple wounds, the
Speaker 2: dictations self can take quite a while and it can
Speaker 2: be very in depth, so I usually do those when
Speaker 2: I can sit in my office and just read through
Speaker 2: my notes and make sure I get everything accurate. If
Speaker 2: it's as simple like just heart attack or drug overdose,
Speaker 2: those can be dictated quite quickly at the autopsy, right
Speaker 2: as soon as the autopsy is done. So it kind
Speaker 2: of just depends on the case of when I do
Speaker 2: the dictations. But I do have some alone time in
Speaker 2: my office usually at the after the autopsies are done,
Speaker 2: to go through things and then process the paperwork.
Speaker 1: Are you in your office right now?
Speaker 2: I am in I have actually two offices connected by
Speaker 2: a hallway, and this is a kind of a conference
Speaker 2: room office, and my other office is through the hallway
Speaker 2: on the other side.
Speaker 1: Because it looks to me that you're never alone with
Speaker 1: your two friends behind you. All I know is this
Speaker 1: or the voice never gets old talking to you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: them too, it never gets old talking to you. The
Speaker 1: more you talk, the more questions I have, and the
Speaker 1: more I want to listen. You're one of the few
Speaker 1: guests that don't get interrupted. Just look on Twitter. People
Speaker 1: hate it. I know that because you have so much
Speaker 1: to say, and I don't ever want to miss a word,
Speaker 1: and I don't want anyone else to miss a word.
Speaker 1: You hear about the autopsies, you hear about the investigations,
Speaker 1: but you hear a whole another side of what really
Speaker 1: happens in the morgue and on crime scenes death scenes.
Speaker 1: If I am judging by the first one I've heard,
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear the second one. Doctor Kendall
Speaker 1: Crown's launching mayhem in the Morgue, and I am looking
Speaker 1: forward to the next one. I love the first one,
Speaker 1: and I will leave it a mystery as to how
Speaker 1: something shoots out of the dead person's rear end. I
Speaker 1: will let you tell that story at the right time,
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you for joining me.
Speaker 2: Hello, I'm doctor Kendall Crown's, host of your favorite new
Speaker 2: weekly crime online podcasts, Mayhem and The Morgue. I have
Speaker 2: been around forensics for over thirty five years and performed
Speaker 2: thousands of autopsies. I have been everything from an autopsy
Speaker 2: tech to finally, a medical examiner, and each week we'll
Speaker 2: be discussing stories from my lengthy career. The stories will
Speaker 2: range from courtroom dramas, explosions, maulings, shootings, drug overdoses. The
Speaker 2: cases will never end, and the stories will range from
Speaker 2: the humorous to horrifying, covering a wide variety of topics,
Speaker 2: and it will never be a dull moment. Hopefully you
Speaker 2: will find the stories entertaining and maybe you'll learn something.
Speaker 2: So tune in and I can guarantee your nightmares will
Speaker 2: never be the same.