1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome you stuff. 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: I've never told you a production of I Heart Radio's 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: How Stuff Work. Today's episode is another that is a 4 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: long time coming for me. Yes, Yes, because about a 5 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: year ago there was an event at UM, Atlanta's Center 6 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: for Puppetry Arts which UM was focused on women and puppetry, 7 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: and we were trying to go there and record it 8 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 1: and do a podcast on it, but based on availability 9 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: of producers and hosts, it did not happen, and I've 10 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: it's been the one that got away, similarly to a 11 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: lot of the interviews have been ad lately that we 12 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: finally have made happen, and I've recently with all the 13 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: things like Drag con Right, which has a lot of 14 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: puppets and a lot of puppetry panels, and Dark Crystal, 15 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: the Netflix show UM, which I love UH and in 16 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: Atlanta there's a Halloween tradition of this puppets show called 17 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: The Ghastly Dreadfulls, and UH was finally able to get 18 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: some women in puppetry. Maybe it happen. We've got some 19 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: big names in here in the puppetry world. As you 20 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: told me before they walked in, I was like, oh, no, 21 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: am I just being nervous, But yeah, I kind of 22 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: forgot what because I have no idea in this whole 23 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: world of puppetry, and I kind of forgot one of 24 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: my favorite movies, which are we're going to mention in 25 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: the interview, which is literally which is like the nineteen fifties, 26 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties old classic with one of my favorite actresses, 27 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: Leslie Karoran. Think that's how your saving name Carol. She's French, French, American. 28 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: I'm not really good at any of those things. But 29 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: she was a beautiful dancer, and there's this whole and 30 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: we talked about the synopsis of film, but her interacting 31 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: with all these puppets um, and it's kin was like wow, yeah, 32 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: there's a whole depth to publishry that I didn't think about. 33 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: Slide of Sesame Street, right And it's it's interesting you 34 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: say that because I never watched Sesame Street. Um, so 35 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: I had like a reverse of what I think most 36 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: people in in at least the United States have where 37 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: I never saw Sesame Street. No, no, none of those. 38 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: I did see Muppet Christmas Carol. Okay, okay, um that's 39 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: what I think of right Um For me, it was 40 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: definitely dark crystal. That was something that when I was 41 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: a kid, I was a weird kid, and I loved 42 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: the movie I guess Labyrinth as well as never ending 43 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: story those lines too. Yeah, and that's the thing. And 44 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of us don't realize that 45 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: we were seeing puppets in a lot of different forms, 46 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: and that's also something we're going to touch on. But 47 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: I guess we should get into the interview because we 48 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 1: keep spoiling everything. It was very exciting. I feel like 49 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: I'll learned lot. It was a lovely interview, and uh, 50 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: you'll hear from our guests. But some of them flew 51 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: in today right from Quebec. We have to go visit 52 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: them during that old festival. I am planning on it. 53 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: I am in, I am in. Yeah. It was a 54 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,839 Speaker 1: great conversation and actually we might follow up and have 55 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: another because there are a lot of women puppeteers came 56 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: out of the woodworks when I put out my fielders, 57 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: and I was like, so, if any listeners are hearing 58 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: this and thinking, ah, that's me, you should write in. 59 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, we'll let our interviewees introduce themselves. Hello, 60 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: my name is Louise Lapoynte. I come from Montreal in Canada, 61 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: and I'm the director of Castillier, which is an organization 62 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: devoted to puppetry arts presenting propetry arts. So every year 63 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: we organized an international puppet Festival presenting performances for children 64 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:57,119 Speaker 1: and for adults, and also we have a regular season. Cool. Hi, 65 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: I'm Kristin Hararty and I'm the producer at the Center 66 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: for pupe Try Arts here in Atlanta, Georgia. And well, 67 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: we don't have a festival, we present uh work for 68 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: families and for adults throughout the year. Uh So, and 69 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 1: also have a museum and education program as well. Yes, 70 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan, big fan, and I'm sure I 71 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: would love everything you've got going on as well. But 72 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: once I make it to get back um anytime. Uh 73 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: And we like to start with kind of a very 74 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: baseline definitions on the show. So if you wuldn't mind 75 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: what is puppetry because I think when a lot of 76 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,239 Speaker 1: people think about it, at least here in the States, 77 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: there's one particular thing they're thinking of. Um, So if 78 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: you could kind of expand upon what is puppetry exactly 79 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: that kind of thing, uh, yeah, I think that's true 80 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: puppetry and its essence is inanimate object manipulated Uh in 81 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: front of an audience. U is sort of my definition. 82 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: But really puppetry there are so many different styles, both 83 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: in techniques and also uh in world traditions as well. Uh, 84 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: there's it can really be so many things. It's very 85 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: visual form. It's uh, it's visual storytelling. Uh. Also what 86 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: do you think, Well, in French we call it we 87 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: are devoted to the arts of puppetry, including object theater, shadow, theater, marionette. 88 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: Because yeah, it's a an incredible array of different techniques 89 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,119 Speaker 1: and puppetry art is a complete art form. It's more 90 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: like opera because it involves visual arts, theater, dance, movement, music, 91 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: so it's a really complete and intricate art form and 92 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: so poetics. So that for me, I agree with Christine's definition. 93 00:05:53,760 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: But it's like I say, it's the arts of puppetry absolutely. Um. 94 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: And if you wouldn't mind going into both of you 95 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: how did you get into this field? How did you 96 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: get to where you are? Myself? I studied in first 97 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: in visual arts and university, and then I wanted to 98 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: go on studying but not doing master degree in visual arts. 99 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: So I said, Okay, I'm going to do another degree 100 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: in theater and technical production and stenography. And it was 101 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: in school that I met a great puppeteer, and I 102 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: was fascinated about the strength of the art form. So 103 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: I decided to devote myself to that afterwards. And so 104 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: I worked for more than twenty years in Quebec at 105 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: the Conservatoi Dramatic as a stage hand, props mistress, maskmaker, 106 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: and it allowed me to work with materials all the time. 107 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: But still I kept the practice of building puppets on 108 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: the side. And then I became a director of a 109 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: festival and I'm now I'm more presenting than building, but 110 00:06:55,279 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: I hope to come back to building soon. M Uh 111 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: yeah for me. Going back to let's talking about puppetry 112 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: being all the arts. Uh. When I was a student, 113 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: I was interested in music and film and theater, and 114 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: I was trying to find ways to combine them all 115 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: into what I wanted to be when I grew up. 116 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: And Uh, I went abroad to study my junior year 117 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: in Prague and Bali, and both of those have incredible 118 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: puppetry traditions, and suddenly it sort of clicked for me, 119 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: and I realized that puppetry was such a vibrant art 120 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: farm and I wanted to know more about it. So 121 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: I came back and happened to my UH college professor 122 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: happened to be an amazing person in the puppetry field, 123 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: Dan Herlin, who is in New York and doing really 124 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: great work, and so I studied with him after I 125 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: was back, and then went and toured for a year 126 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: as a touring puppeteer uh and in the Northwest, which 127 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: was a using experience. UH for anyone who has ever 128 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: been on a theatrical tour, it's uh, it really you know, 129 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: gets you in the trenches and and it's also just 130 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: a really great learning experience for how audiences respond because 131 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: you're in a different town every day in front of 132 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: a different audience. Really uh. And so doing that with 133 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: this puppetry company was really taught me about the art 134 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: forum and about performing in general. And then I moved 135 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: to Atlanta, and UH Atlanta has this amazing center for Patriarchs, 136 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: and I started working as a teaching artist. I UH 137 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: worked as a docent, I worked as AH did shows 138 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: for XPT, which is our experimental puppetry theater program, started 139 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: performing in the Ghastly Dreadfuls, which is an adult Puppetri 140 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: scau there and just basically did every job I could 141 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: possibly do at the Center. Uh. And then I was 142 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: the Center was planning a international festival in two thousand 143 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: It was going to happen in two thousand nine, and 144 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: my producer was looking for someone to help with that, 145 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: and I said, I want to be a part of that. Uh, 146 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: and UH pushed my resume at her, and that was 147 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: that was ten years ago since I worked on that, 148 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: and uh, that was our producer and she recently retired 149 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: and now I've am the producer of the Center and 150 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: it's so it's been a long process. But UH really 151 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: loved working in puppetry and all of the possibilities that 152 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: are inherent within that reform. Yeah, and that's something I 153 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: personally really curious about because I've seen a lot of 154 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: I think people forget that there's puppetry and a lot 155 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: of big movies and you just don't think about it 156 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 1: in the same way and you don't appreciate it in 157 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: the same way. Perhaps, Um, but I'm always curious about 158 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: like because I'm an actor, but like the performance of 159 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: it and giving life to something in movement and invoice. Um, 160 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: what about it? Is there something specific that drew you 161 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: to publishry or is there something about it that you 162 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:15,719 Speaker 1: love that you find very unique? Do it well? I 163 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: must admit puppetry for me is a passion. It's stronger 164 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: than me. I don't know why I'm consulting, but it's 165 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: an art form that keeps fascinating me because of its 166 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: endless power of metaphorism, of poetry, of strength that the 167 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: human soul not with the text. Necessarily you can have 168 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: text and puppetry, but not necessarily. And how a simple gesture, 169 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: but the good one can make you feel all sorts 170 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: of feelings and also make you understand things. For me, 171 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: it's an answer of puppetry arts. They can answer some 172 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: of the basic questions. And that's why I'm still interested 173 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: so much into it. It's a passion m hm and 174 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: and I think for me, it's also the tactile nature 175 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: of puppetry, like especially thinking of films and uh where 176 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: there was a movement for a while to go c 177 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: G and to go digital, and so many people are 178 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 1: now going back to puppetry to achieve those effects because 179 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: they're realizing there's just nothing quite like that actual physical 180 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: object being manipulated by an actual human being in real time. 181 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: I mean stop motion, I guess I just think of 182 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: it has slowed down but or sped up puppetry, I suppose, 183 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: but but but there's still there's just something about and 184 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: an object coming to life that's that's so part of 185 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: just a really basic human impulse. And also it's just 186 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: it the lights in a way that I think digital 187 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: doesn't always And I think that's also why I just 188 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,719 Speaker 1: keep coming back to the puppet. And it's fascinating right 189 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: now because we see it in the schools, younger children 190 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: or even older when they see a puppet show. Now 191 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: they're so fascinated behind the scene and they want to 192 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: see how one army is moving because they're so used 193 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: to virtual screens all the time, and to go back 194 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: to and see real matter move with their human being, 195 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: and they they find again the joy of you know, equally, 196 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: so many companies talk about that that after shows, meetings 197 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: with the audience, you know, it's this fascination again, oh 198 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 1: how does this work? And so it's it's very nice 199 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: and you'll find, you know, not only visual artists and 200 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: performers and dancers, but also engineers really like puppetry because 201 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: it's all about like, how how do you make it work? 202 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: You know, how how do you achieve this effect? And 203 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: sometimes it's a very simple mechanism. Um, but sometimes I 204 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: can get really complicated and there's a real sort of 205 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: puzzle to figuring out how how do you create this, uh, 206 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: this this object to move in a certain way to 207 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 1: achieve the effect that you want to on stage or 208 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: or in a film or whatever it is. Yeah. When 209 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: I watch something like The Gastly Judgfuls, which I love 210 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 1: because it showcases all these different types of puppetry, I 211 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: am so fascinated with how did how did they do that? 212 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: I just want to know? Um. And something else I 213 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: really like is looking back at the history of puppetry, 214 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: which is something that the Center for Pupetry Arts goes 215 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: into and around the world. Um. Is that something that 216 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: either of you or both of you can speak to 217 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: some of the history or especially women, um, because this 218 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: show is about women and feminism. Yeah. Yeah, I mean 219 00:13:54,640 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: puppetry has a long history is and so many different cultures. Uh. Actually, 220 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: one reason why I was so excited that that Louise 221 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: could join us. Is that Uh, we're both part of 222 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: an organization called UNEMA, which is the oldest organization, uh 223 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: in the oldest theater organization in the world. Um and 224 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: uh it's an association of puppeteers and uh so it's 225 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: uh there are UNEMA centers and countries around the world. Um, 226 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: that's how I originally met Louise is. They have congresses 227 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: every four years and there are an incredible amount of 228 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: women leaders within that organization. Um and and I think 229 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: in puppetries history in general. I know in the States 230 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: there's been many strong puppeteers who have been been women 231 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: who have sort of shaped at least American puppetry. And 232 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: there's u and internationally as well, and currently there are 233 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: there are many female puppeteers. And in phil on TV 234 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: there's the Hanson family there are three really dynamic women 235 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: are all the daughters of Jim Henson who are currently 236 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: heading puppetry foundations and uh and creating puppetry and and 237 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: so the female presence in puppetry is strong. I would say, yeah, absolutely. Um. 238 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: I think in puppetryes is in almost every culture's every 239 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: culture and around the world, almost like masks UM and 240 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: nowadays there's a there are many more women studying puppetry. 241 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,479 Speaker 1: There's many men in the in the field and performing, 242 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: but in professional schools for example, there there are many 243 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: more women studying puppetry arts. I think it's not only 244 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: puppetry but also visual arts and like in for example, 245 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: in Montreal, we have now a master degree level in 246 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: puppetry arts for since two thousand seven, and it's a 247 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: two year master degree and for the last two promotions 248 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: it's only women studying and the puppetry. So I think 249 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: it's uh, it's two bad because it gives uh why 250 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: is that happening like that? But still I mean there's 251 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: a very big interest buy from for women in puppetry arts, 252 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: and they're doing exquisite shows like you had Ashes here, 253 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: which is a Norwegian puppeteer who's world famous now and 254 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: so now we see many excellent international companies led by women. Yeah. UM, 255 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: we have some more of our discussion around women in puppeteering, 256 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: but first we have a quick break for word from 257 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Now back 258 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: to the interview. One thing that I find fascinating about 259 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: the history of puppetry, UM is how it was able 260 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: to provide commentary on social things but when perhaps no 261 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: one else could, when it was sort of a dangerous thing. 262 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 1: Um And before I, before we started recording this, I 263 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: was reading about like puppetry used for empowering women in 264 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 1: in South Africa, and erotic puppetry and turkey for women, 265 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: like something that they're able to comments on that maybe 266 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be able to. And so I'm wondering, what 267 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: do you how do you think that puppetry can transcend 268 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: in that way? I also saw I think one of 269 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: the panels um at one of these festivals or conferences 270 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: was about using puppets for people who experienced sexual trauma 271 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: or something like using it to help in that way, 272 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: just other ways that puppetry is this powerful art form. Yeah, 273 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: I've seen it being used for child therapy, like it's 274 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: no form of there before a lot of children who 275 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: has gone through trauma, and it's not necessarily that they're 276 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: playing out trauma, but it's something to help you. I 277 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: can speak up, what is it? What is it about that? 278 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: That is a good question because I've seen that as well, 279 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: that children are able to communicate with things through the 280 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: puppetry type of things. How does that how does that 281 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: even become a thing? That's that's fascinating too. Well, hy 282 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 1: puppetry and therapy. It's a big association also around an 283 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: international um international association. So yeah, it's such a useful 284 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: and strong tool to do therapy and you need many 285 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: experts use it to deal with different traumas, for with 286 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: children and for adults. And I think because puppetry is 287 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: so strong because you it's a mirror, so you're not 288 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: it's not you talking, or it's not someone talking to you, 289 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: it's the puppets. So it's much more easier to get 290 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,959 Speaker 1: the distance. And I'm not a therapist, but I know 291 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: the power the puppet can have and and I think 292 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 1: that's why it's very strong, right, Yeah, I agree, it's 293 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: there's there's that sense of oh, it's the it's the 294 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: puppet talking um, and there's there's a safety in that um. 295 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: And and also in you know, not only in therapy, 296 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: but in uh politics. I know that there's there's many 297 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: instances and um where it's there's the puppet tier has 298 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 1: been able to to speak truth to power in ways 299 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: that possibly the human would not have been able to 300 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 1: or be allowed to. But because it was a puppet 301 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: in a puppet show. Uh, there was there was that 302 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: distance or that that sense of it. You know, it's 303 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: it's the puppet, so it's okay. Um. One of the 304 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: impetus for this episode, I guess it was two things. One, 305 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: I fell in love with the dark Wist all over again, 306 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: but too. Like a year ago, there was a panel 307 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: on women in puppetry and I totally I missed it 308 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 1: and I've been thinking about it ever since. Um. But 309 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: one of the women who was on the panel, when 310 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: asked about like the differences in female characters versus male 311 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,719 Speaker 1: characters when it comes to puppets that she said something like, 312 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 1: I would always rather play a character that happens to 313 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: be female. Um, but are there things that you've noticed 314 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: or you've experienced that are different when it comes to 315 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: creating female character in puppet form? In my experience, one 316 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: of the values of puppetry is that you can be 317 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: so many things that aren't what you physically are. You 318 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 1: can you can as as a performer, and you can 319 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: go you can stretch the boundaries of what maybe an 320 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 1: audience might perceive you to be on stage. You can 321 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: be five different characters that are completely different in looks, size, personality, 322 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: you know, whatever, uh that is. I think, you know, 323 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: there's there's certainly lots of males that perform female roles 324 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: and females that perform male rules and puppetry, and there's 325 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: there's some value in that. I think that sometimes there 326 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: I mean in this can be in you know, it's 327 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: not just exclusive to puppetry, but you know, there you 328 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: can delve into stereotypes that are not that can be 329 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: dangerous or not dangerous but just questionable. Um. So, so 330 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: I think that there's you know, you still have to 331 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: be very mindful of of representation. And because puppetry is 332 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: such a strong representation you you you can create something 333 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: that is your visual idea of what a character is. 334 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: And that way, it's like it does bring up questions 335 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: like why does the why does a witch always have 336 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: to have like, you know, a certain look you know 337 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: you know and um and because you are you are 338 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: able to physically sculpt creates this this image of this 339 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: character which is a combination of characteristics and it is 340 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: it is a personality. You know, how how do you 341 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: create that rich personality within your visual design? Um that 342 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: is mindful of not drawing those very simple conclusions to oh, 343 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: this is this kind of character, so it's going to 344 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: look like this or um, so yeah, it's I think 345 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: that's always a challenge in puppetry. Um. I think I 346 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: got away from the question that So, yeah, I was 347 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: gonna ask because you were talking about that you are crafting, 348 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: you're creating, um and making these puppets. What does it 349 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: look like being behind the scenes and trying to create 350 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: new characters? Because, as you were talking about, you have 351 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: to keep up with the ever changing representation and as 352 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: we know right now there's huge controversy about all of 353 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: the diferent types of representation. What does that look like today, 354 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: especially as a woman who would be creating and crafting 355 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: these characters. Well, I think property stay is a great 356 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: tool to yet fight against this gender characterization. And I'm 357 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: thinking maybe that's why there's so many women studying it, 358 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: because it's a excellent way to break molds and propose 359 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: something else. But creating different characters, I wouldn't have to 360 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: think about this one because when you create a character, you, 361 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: for yeah, you have to adapt to you are more 362 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: sensitive to what's going on now for sure, But I 363 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: don't know how it would show up in the actual object. Well, 364 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 1: how do you start creating something, because I'm guessing you 365 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: have to create like when you're going outside of the 366 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: regular characters. How do you come up with these ideas? So, 367 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: like again, I'm thinking about the long lines of like 368 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: creations like Cookie Monster or and I actually remember the 369 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: movie that I love Lily. It's one of my favorite movies, 370 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: like was one of my favorite dancers way back way, 371 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: but I was just thinking. I was like, oh my god, 372 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: I forgot I used to love this movie which was 373 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: centered around puppetry and her falling in love with these 374 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: characters and these some of these characters are very unusual 375 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: characters as we see. How do you come up with 376 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: these ideas? How do people well to create a character? 377 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: You start discussing with the director or if with yourself, 378 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: if you are the director, but you make a discussion 379 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: and what's the character about? What's this? What's his emotion? 380 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: His her emotions with the what's his movement? How does 381 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: he how does it move? And then you depending on 382 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 1: your strength or what kind of technique you want to use, 383 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: it's very different feelings. If you use a long string 384 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: puppets marionettes, because the gestures are very much different than 385 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: the hand and the glove puppet, which is a direct 386 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: connection and very powerful. So you have to discuss that 387 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: beforehand to see what you want to say again, and 388 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 1: then you start research and what's nice And nowadays it's 389 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: we can use the traditional techniques, but also with the 390 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: new media. A lot of puppeteers are working with projection, 391 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: live videos and it's bringing a breath of a new 392 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: breadth of a new wind into the traditional puppetry arts. 393 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 1: So um, that's what I can insu Can we come 394 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: and hang out and make a puppet of ourselves? Absolutely, 395 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: we always make a puppet that looks quite like it's 396 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: amazing to see it happening. It's how to make this happen, 397 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: and you're the one that's making these things happen. I 398 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: want I want to make one of ourselves so we 399 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: can just there. There are on the panels. There are 400 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: companies online to that that are like, there's an artist 401 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: in Colorado. I think that that's like their bread and 402 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: Butter is making lookalike puppets, so um, they're they're definitely 403 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: people that specialize and that it's really go centric. But 404 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, how do I personally? So I'm just 405 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 1: gonna find someone to mimic me too much. That is 406 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: a that's a Netflix show right there, because I don't 407 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: realize that you've been replaced by a puppet entire time. 408 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: It's a puppet and it's not actually me. Yes, find 409 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: easy out. Sorry, no no worries. But I think that 410 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: is an interesting point as far as in deciding a 411 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: puppet design. Part of it is what is the technique? 412 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,479 Speaker 1: Because you know what, how how does each each form 413 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: of puppetry has a very different feeling to it. No 414 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 1: hand uh, hand in hand puppets like the Muppets, you know, 415 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: that's a very direct You can get a lot of 416 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: emotion out of the faces and the there's a real 417 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: directness to that that approach. Marionettes are perhaps they're a 418 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: little more that can be graceful, but a little more removed. 419 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 1: I would say, a distance. Yeah, there's a distance, even 420 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: the distance between the puppeteer and and the puppet. It 421 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: it just changes the personality and the sense of what 422 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: this um uh, the feeling for the audience. Um same 423 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: with like direct manipulation, Louis brought this beautiful picture audience 424 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: just can't see it. But this chimpanzee puppet, that's a 425 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: direct manipulation. And um, that three three person manipulation is 426 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: one that uh you know, you can get so much 427 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: real subtle gestures and in a real sense of um 428 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: of subtle movement in in those kind of puppets. So 429 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: each one of those really creates a different uh feeling 430 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 1: for the puppeteer and for the audience, and a different 431 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: set of challenges. Um. So you'd also have to figure 432 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: out what kind the puppet you I was gonna say 433 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: so because as a novice, I didn't realize I knew 434 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: marrying it and I knew the hand puppet. What else 435 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: is there? Because you were talking about projection, there's a puppetry, 436 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: and there's Object theater which is now a very popular 437 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: and there's rod puppets, and there's um this may be 438 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: too much as can you exactly what that is? Because 439 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 1: like when you talk about object, what does that involve 440 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: it you talked about, um, there's three people that can 441 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: coordinate what? Uh So the three person technique a lot 442 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: of sort of inspired by a Japanese technique called bunraku 443 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: uh and it's uh, there are three people. Usually it's 444 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: like one person on the head and right hand, um, 445 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: there's another person on the feet and another person on 446 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: the left hand and they um that sometimes switches up, 447 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: but that's sort of the end. So they can really 448 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: and usually the joints are all articulated, so you can 449 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: get a really you know, natural movement out of that 450 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: that technique. Uh. Are those those pretty large size or 451 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: okay that's not the original Okay, yeah they were, UM, 452 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: but I mean you can get different sizes. It just 453 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: depends on the design of the show and the puppets. Um. 454 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: And then there's the object theater is uh is really 455 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: you take objects and manipulate them and it's it's really yeah, 456 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: okay can come to life with okay okay UM. And 457 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: usually with object theater, the particular objects might have, um 458 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: be connected to a certain idea or you know, there 459 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: are a metaphor for something else that the you know 460 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: in the story that you're trying to tell. So um 461 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: and a shadow puppet tree is shadows uh, but but 462 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: can be giant puppetry. There are you know, puppet tears 463 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: that you masks and then have the full body plus 464 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: the mask that makes the character on top of their heads. 465 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: Uh so is that like the polar Bear from Coca 466 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: Cola would he be? That would be a body puppet 467 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: that cost characters are in that body body puppet, right, Yeah, 468 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: and fascinating And there's a lot of research also, um 469 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: for the last few decades ago. You know, shadow puppetry, 470 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: for example, they used to be screen and shadows and 471 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: you would look in the front and if you were 472 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: a man in the back, if you were a woman, 473 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: they would be separating. But now there's a lot of research. 474 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: You see the actual puppeteers holding their shadow and working 475 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: with the lamp in his hand and moving the shadow 476 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: and the shadows at the back of the stage and 477 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: a front of the stage. So it's it's fascinating. It's 478 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: always questioning the relationship between the puppet, the object and 479 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: the actor the manipulator, and in this questioning, it's it's 480 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: very interesting what's happening, and there's a lot of ongoing 481 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,479 Speaker 1: research about that. And what we must stress I think too, 482 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: is that more and more, um, we have to say 483 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: that puppetry art was always for adults and family, but 484 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: nowadays it's for many years it's always still often seen 485 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: as only for children, but it's of course there are 486 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: exquisite shows for children, but they are beautiful shows for adults, 487 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: and that's not as known. And what we started a 488 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: few years ago to launch as an idea is often 489 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: we used as an example Cartoon to say to people, 490 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: you know, cartoon, there's it's for kids, but also there's 491 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: excellent cartoons for adults. And people say, oh, yeah, that's true. 492 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: And now cartoon is recognized as the ninth art, So 493 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: we said, why don't we do this with puppetry So 494 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: it was our eleventh anniversary and guestile, so we say, okay, 495 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: we go for puppetry Arts are the eleventh art, so 496 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: we're launching that and we use that to you to 497 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: stress that perpetry arts is such a great theater form 498 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: and four adults. Well, I was going to say some 499 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: of these things sounds like that takes a lot of 500 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: choreography between each of the different especially if it's multi people, 501 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: multi persons, multi people like that. I'm just gonna make 502 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: up words just so you know. I'm really good at 503 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: this job, and I make up words throughout. But yeah, 504 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: that sounds like a lot of choreography has to be played, 505 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: especially I know that you're talking about the Japanese one. 506 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: I'm guessing that is exactly how it has to go. 507 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: They have to practice almost their marks and their movement 508 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: into whatever. Well, you have to spend ten years on 509 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: the feet and then you moved to the left arm 510 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: for ten years, and then afterwards you might be the 511 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: master of dealing with that. It was very very and 512 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: you also have to sweep the floor for ten years probably, 513 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,719 Speaker 1: But it's this is the original bunraku. But now this 514 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: technique has been transformed in all sorts of new ways. 515 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's a very demanding learning. It's like often 516 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: it's compared to musical instrument. That's amazing, except for every 517 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: puppet you pick up is like learning a new instrument. 518 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: You're talking about different forms. I would think you would 519 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: have to specialize in each one for a little while 520 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: to like learn that over again. Yeah, well, and I 521 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: think just also the construction can be. You know, one 522 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: one puppeteer from the Center that I'll never forget learn 523 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: a Holle. She was our head puppeteer for many years, 524 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: and she would when she was presented with a new puppet, 525 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: she would pick it up and immediately just start playing 526 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: with it and just try different things and and be like, Okay, 527 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: how does this puppet work? And she would stretch it 528 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: to its limits in order to be like, Okay, what 529 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: what are the peculiarities of this puppet? How's it moved? 530 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: How's it jointed? Like what can I do with it? 531 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: And that was always like, like, what's the potential for 532 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: this object? Let me figure that out? And that was 533 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: always so inspiring to me and and I think that's 534 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: that's one of the joys of puppetryes. You can be like, Okay, 535 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: what's the potential in in this object? How do I 536 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: make this puppet really come to life? And each one 537 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 1: is really different and as different depending on the technique 538 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: that's used, um, but also just the particular construction techniques 539 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, I'm fascinated by that and by like 540 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: being able to communicate mannerisms with movements that you do. 541 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: It blows my mind. We have a little bit more 542 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: for you listeners, but first we have one more quick 543 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: break for words from our sponsor and we're back. Thank 544 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: you sponsor. Let's get back to the interview. So before 545 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: we wrap up here, I would love if, um, both 546 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,919 Speaker 1: of you, I know you've got like the fifteen year 547 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: anniversary and you've just opened up a center, Like what 548 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: what things are going on right now that people could 549 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: look to and what are you looking forward to in 550 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 1: the future other than the eleventh Art, I'm looking towards 551 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: developing a partnership with the Center of puppet Rearts. In 552 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: that center, oh yeah, and I'm looking to help creation, 553 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:34,760 Speaker 1: to help the puppeteers to achieve their their dream, their project. 554 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: So if the house and what we do can push 555 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,720 Speaker 1: them give them encouragement, That's what I look for because 556 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: I know the beauty of the results will be mesmerizing. 557 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 1: And I want I'm a programmer because I want to 558 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: have more people see and realize what puppetry can do. Yeah. Um, 559 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: I'm also looking forward to the partnership at the Center 560 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: for puptear Arts. Uh. We're uh have things going on 561 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: all year round and uh and really I want to 562 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: find ways to connect are this amazing place that we 563 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:14,320 Speaker 1: have in Atlanta to the world, um, and to really 564 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: find you know, there's there's so much, such a rich 565 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,919 Speaker 1: uh world of puppetry, uh, and finding ways to bring 566 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 1: that here to to showcase it. UM is really Michael, 567 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: you guys have Um, do you have camps up or 568 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: we do? We do have a camp. Uh yeah we uh, 569 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: we we have so much programming. A lot of things 570 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: that's happening is really amazing and nice kid, we haven't 571 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: gone yet, yes, yeah, please do. Yeah, we have a 572 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: great We have some international companies coming in. Uh there's 573 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: some Australian coming in February. Uh and uh, we've got 574 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: museum programming all the time, family programming all the time. 575 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: We're just about to open up our uh annual Rudolph 576 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,919 Speaker 1: Red Nose Reindeer. Yeah, I know it's already, it's already here. 577 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: So where can we find you on the interwebs? Um 578 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: Castellier dot c A castellier means puppeteer. It means the 579 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 1: person who worked in the castell which is a puppet 580 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 1: theater in French. So castilli means puppeteer in Okay. And 581 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: uh www dot puppets dot org the center's website. Simple, yeah, 582 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 1: find you immediately. That's um, that's awesome, and listeners definitely 583 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: go check out. If you're near either of these centers, 584 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,720 Speaker 1: go check them out. May I ask you a question? 585 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: You're an actor? An actress would you work with puppets. 586 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: Have you been in the production with puppets? I have yes, 587 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,880 Speaker 1: much more of the like monster coming after you variety, UM, 588 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 1: and I have UM in case it wasn't clear. I'd 589 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: go to the center of puff Shards pretty regularly and 590 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: I've made some puppets there, but I have no real 591 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,359 Speaker 1: experience beyond that. UM, but very interested. Yeah, I would 592 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: love to work with them or this is This was 593 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,839 Speaker 1: definitely her idea. She was really excited about doing all 594 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: these things and has talked about Dark Crystal and how 595 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: much she loves it. So yes, which is the interesting 596 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: thing about that, Going back to your point about how 597 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people, at least where we are, associate 598 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: puppets with children. UM. I had a friend who I 599 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: made her watch that and she was so upset at 600 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: me because she's like, it's puppets. It's supposed to be 601 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 1: happiness and not on always. So I think it is changing, um, 602 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: as we are more exposed to it, and also as 603 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: we more recognize it, because I think some people just 604 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,800 Speaker 1: don't think of puppets when they see them in bigger 605 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: Hollywood movies or TV shows. They don't realize that that 606 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,760 Speaker 1: the puppet right. I will say when I watched Lily, 607 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: how it represented different personalities of that one man, and 608 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,359 Speaker 1: it was like, what five different characters that it was. 609 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: It was pretty ills, Like, huh, that's really thought provoking. 610 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 1: I didn't think about how this was extensions of himself. 611 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen a movie? You're gonna have to 612 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: watch it. It's really good. Yeah, I forgot how much 613 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: I love that. Okay, okay, um, that's awesome. Thank you. 614 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: I'm really because I didn't know anything about this. I 615 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 1: was like, Annie, this is all you now. I'm really 616 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 1: excited to have to comes with you. Louises Festival in 617 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 1: March is phenomenal. So it's also so where is is 618 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: it in Montreal? Montreal? Okay, we're going in and you 619 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: welcome trips coming. Yes, thank you both so much for 620 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: coming much. This brings us to the end of our interview. 621 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: Unfortunately we had some time constraints or we would have 622 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: kept going and go, and I have so many more questions. 623 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,799 Speaker 1: I know, I did you got really into it at 624 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,879 Speaker 1: the end. I was like, yes, happening, Oh yeah, and 625 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: this and this and this. I feel like we had 626 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,879 Speaker 1: a connection. We're talking about Lily. I think you did. 627 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: I feel very happy about this. And as we said, 628 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,720 Speaker 1: any listeners who are ever in those areas Montreal or Atlanta, 629 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: and I'm sure around the world, please please right in 630 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 1: if you have a similar center where you are, check 631 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 1: them out. They're really cool. I haven't been to the 632 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,720 Speaker 1: one in Montreal, but I can feel in my bones 633 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: it's very cool. And then we're planning, Oh yeah, we're 634 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 1: going to go. I feel like this is definitely an 635 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 1: episode happening in March. Yes, so we'll be there. We're 636 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,239 Speaker 1: just gonna go ahead and say, yes, that's happening. Uh. 637 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: And we'll probably have a bit more to say about 638 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: this later. But that is all for today. Thank you guys, Yes, 639 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: thanks so much to our interviewees for coming in. Um, 640 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: thanks as always to our super producer Andrew howardzing Um. 641 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening, and as always, you can 642 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: write in at our email address, Stuff Media, Mom Stuff 643 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,400 Speaker 1: at iHeart media dot com. You can find us on 644 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram at stuff 645 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: Mom Never told you. We would love to hear from you, 646 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 1: Stuff Mom Never Told You. His protection of I Heart 647 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 1: Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, 648 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 649 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:23,760 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite ships.