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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some.

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Speaker 2: Of today's best minds.

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Speaker 1: And Tucker Carlson is in Moscow hanging out with Vladimir Putin.

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Speaker 2: We have such a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: Daniella Blueiras, the CEO of the New Leadership Project, joins

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Speaker 1: us to talk about how they mobilize business leaders to

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Speaker 1: protect democracy. Then we'll talk to the Washington Posts Areles

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Speaker 1: Hernandez for a boots on the ground report from the

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Speaker 1: Texas Mexico border. But first we have the host of

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Speaker 1: the Enemy's List, the Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson, who

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Speaker 1: I would like to add will be joining me along

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Speaker 1: with a few other friends. Get ready at City Winery

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Speaker 1: on March sixth for a general election kickoff live show.

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Speaker 1: You could buy tickets now at City Winery's website and

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Speaker 1: you won't miss it.

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Speaker 2: And here is Rick Wilson.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics, Rick Wilson, it's a Monday,

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Speaker 1: What the fuck man?

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Speaker 3: Welcome back, my friends to the show that never ends.

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Speaker 1: Ten thousand days from the general election, right, ten thousand

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Speaker 1: years from the general.

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Speaker 3: It's rent but for political hell. I think the biggest

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Speaker 3: things out of last week were the fact that there

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Speaker 3: is a number that gags Donald Trump, and I'm happy

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Speaker 3: for that number. I love that number.

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Speaker 2: Is eighty three million dollars.

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Speaker 3: Eighty three million dollars.

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Speaker 2: That's the number where Donald Trump stops to fameing you.

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Speaker 3: That's the number where even Donald Trump shuts his fucking mouth.

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Speaker 1: Which is kind of impressive because for Rudy Giuliani, there

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Speaker 1: was no number.

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Speaker 2: It turned out the number did not exist. He just

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Speaker 2: kept defaming.

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Speaker 3: Well, it turned out that Rudy Giuliani is going to

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Speaker 3: be eating out of dumpsters at this rate because he

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Speaker 3: didn't even try to make a deal. He didn't even

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Speaker 3: try to conform his behavior.

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Speaker 2: And now he's in bankruptcy proceedings right.

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Speaker 3: He's in bankruptcy. Apparently he has about twenty five hundred

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Speaker 3: bucks in the bank according to the filing in my

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Speaker 3: Giuliani alumni network. It is bad, bad, and also awful.

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Speaker 2: What are they saying.

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Speaker 3: He's trying to hit anybody he can find up for money.

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Speaker 3: He's desperate.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like when you owe million dollar

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Speaker 1: judgments like that, and not one million, but multiple.

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Speaker 2: Million dollar judgments, that's like more than a loane.

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Speaker 3: How do you wake up in the morning and go, hey,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to call a friend of mine and ask

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Speaker 3: for five or seven million dollars. But the person I

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Speaker 3: talked to said Rudy was like, oh, yeah, I need

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Speaker 3: twenty grand I presume.

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Speaker 2: In cat Jesus, it's so bad, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, Look he bought the ticket. He's taken the right.

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Speaker 3: By the way, the other bankrupt enterprise just before you start,

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Speaker 3: is the rn C is flat busted out.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So that's where I was going with this was

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Speaker 1: money trouble the rn C. Now they're like anemic fundraising.

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Speaker 1: The The problem is, from what I heard from a

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Speaker 1: straight reporter, was that wealthy people are giving a Nicky Haley.

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Speaker 1: Small dollar donors are giving to Donald Trump. No one

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Speaker 1: is giving to the RNC.

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Speaker 3: Look, the RNC a couple of years ago noticed something.

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Speaker 3: If their email fundraising appeals included the name Donald Trump,

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Speaker 3: they got money. If they did not include the name

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump and they got no money. The problem for

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Speaker 3: them is that Trump is hounding away on these small

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Speaker 3: dollar donors twenty emails a day. I must have your

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Speaker 3: immediate donation, or the deep State wins, you know whatever,

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Speaker 3: the crap is.

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Speaker 2: The real reason he needs that money is to pay

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Speaker 2: his lawyers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he is not putting this into campaigning. This is

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Speaker 3: going into legal fees. Now. The reason that they are

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Speaker 3: being so shall we say, blunt with every one of

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Speaker 3: the major donor types, is they need a lot of money.

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Speaker 3: They need. I believe the technical term is a metric fuck.

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Speaker 2: Ton of money. I've heard of the metric book.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's a different the imperial fuck ton. It's a

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Speaker 3: totally different thing. Those are freedom units. But long story short,

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Speaker 3: you've got a campaign that is not going to be

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Speaker 3: able to go out there and go head to head

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Speaker 3: with Joe Biden financially on TV. Now, look that matters

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Speaker 3: less than it used to matter.

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Speaker 1: I think it matters though. You need money to win

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Speaker 1: the presidency.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we like money in campaigns. You gotta no bucks,

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Speaker 3: no buck rogers, as they say. But the fundamental underpinning

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Speaker 3: of this is that nothing Trump is doing right now

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Speaker 3: is actually going into campaigning. He presumes that he will

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Speaker 3: outgun Biden on earn media.

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Speaker 1: Which happened in twenty sixteen, but not in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 3: That is correct because now Donald Trump is a known

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Speaker 3: quantity and it's much harder now, even for the gentry

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Speaker 3: Republicans to say, oh, well, you know, is it a

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Speaker 3: private meeting with Susie Wiles and she told me Trump's

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Speaker 3: just And then Trump goes out and says, I'm not bullshitting.

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Speaker 3: I want to put you fuckers in camps or whatever

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Speaker 3: it is. Right, So, these major donors are going to

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Speaker 3: finish with Nikki and they're gonna say for about a

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Speaker 3: week and then they're going to all write a check.

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Speaker 3: It's what they do. Because he's also saying, I will

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Speaker 3: target you if you don't.

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Speaker 1: Right, all right, I think that we should not wait

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Speaker 1: for these people to have a crisis of conscience because

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Speaker 1: it's not coming.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, but there was a fire sale on conscience

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Speaker 3: a few years ago, and they're not exactly waking up

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Speaker 3: in the morning and going, my god, what are the

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Speaker 3: implications of me being a complete fucking, amoral shit back.

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Speaker 3: They don't think about that any day ever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So let me ask you here we are. We're in

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Speaker 1: this kind of weird period. Nikki Haley. I mean, she's

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Speaker 1: going to be out there, people are giving our money.

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Speaker 1: She's gonna get shellacked in South Carolina. They'll explain to

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Speaker 1: us why.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, South Carolina makes Ayowa look like a state

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Speaker 3: full of lib tar cuck progressive communist Soro shields. South

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Speaker 3: Carolina is the home of the dirtiest, lowest. And I

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Speaker 3: want you to remember who's saying this to you right now.

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Speaker 3: It's me.

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Speaker 4: The dirtiest, lowest, nastiest, scummiest, most fucking vicious, mean spirited, amoral,

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Speaker 4: bottom feeding, scum sucking, cat killing scumbag politics in the country.

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Speaker 2: And I'm from Florida, which taught them how to do

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Speaker 2: it right.

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Speaker 3: It's like, you know, Darth Vader watching the guy kill

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Speaker 3: all the kids in Star Wars, like, oh easy, woe

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Speaker 3: back there, pal. You know, it's just so crazily over

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Speaker 3: the top. So Nicky's gonna go there. They're doing the

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Speaker 3: Birther bullshit on her already. They're gonna run a brutal campaign.

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Speaker 3: They're gonna say she's an adulteress and a furner and

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Speaker 3: all this other crazy bullshit. And you know what's gonna happen.

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Speaker 3: I'm just gonna win by thirty points or twenty points

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Speaker 3: or whatever. Would I love for her to stay in

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Speaker 3: through Super Tuesday at least? Sure, great, she could live

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Speaker 3: off the land. She could do it for a few weeks,

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Speaker 3: but I'm I mean, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: my brain space now is devoted to how do he

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Speaker 3: beat Donald Trump? Not how can we help Nikky Haley

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Speaker 3: Scooch past the political graveyard.

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Speaker 1: And you know I've written about this, and I think

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Speaker 1: you've written about this too, which is this fantasy that

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump somehow goes Okay, I'm not the nominee, That's fine,

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Speaker 1: I'll just go away is insane. This man is running

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Speaker 1: to stay out of jail, right, He's not running to

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Speaker 1: be the nominee. He's running for his life, his livelihood,

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Speaker 1: his family business.

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Speaker 3: There are two men in the world who know that

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Speaker 3: if Trump doesn't win, their lives are absolutely fucked. One

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Speaker 3: is Donald Trump. The other is Vladimir Putin. If Trump wins,

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Speaker 3: Putin lives. If Trump doesn't, Putin dies, literally, he is

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Speaker 3: going to die.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he's gonna die. That I think is hyperbolic.

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Speaker 3: No, they'll kill it, yeh no, no, no, no, he's no,

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Speaker 3: he's fine. Now, he's not that fine. Trump needs to

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Speaker 3: win to stay the fuck out of jail. And none

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Speaker 3: of this, none of this works. If Trump loses all

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Speaker 3: the bs falls apart, all the fundraising falls, apart all

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Speaker 3: the ability to get six seven figure donations.

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Speaker 2: From right, nobody's paying for his lawyers if he's not

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Speaker 2: the nomine.

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Speaker 3: And what you're going to see, I suspect when he

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Speaker 3: is the nominee is there'll be a process of rapid

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Speaker 3: naturation of the legal side and they will treat it

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Speaker 3: much more seriously. They will not let Trump have another

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Speaker 3: Elena Haba on the stage, because that worked out really well.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, Yeah she really, I mean, you know, such an

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Speaker 1: interesting thing. You know, he found this lawyer who looked

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Speaker 1: like a young Milania, very beautiful.

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Speaker 3: Single white female looking Milania.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Turns out that person not a great lawyer, and you

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Speaker 1: put her against one of the best litigators in this country,

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Speaker 1: a woman you know, argued the defensive marriage doma in

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Speaker 1: front of the Supreme Court, and that really good lawyer

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Speaker 1: eats her for fucking lunch.

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Speaker 3: Robbie. It was the equivalent of watching like a monster

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Speaker 3: go out and tear the head off of somebody and

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Speaker 3: kick it around like a soccer ball and drink from

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Speaker 3: the spurting blood fountain of the neck. Because this was just.

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Speaker 2: Tear us out you really think.

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Speaker 3: I know, you're like, oh damn it, Grandpapa Rixton like

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Speaker 3: terrible stories again.

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Speaker 2: Grand guy. Yet not yet, but it's true. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's a great point.

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Speaker 1: You know, we are here, we are Alena Habba by

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Speaker 1: the way, supposedly, you know, when we had Robbie on

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Speaker 1: the podcast, she was saying how uncomfortable it made her

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Speaker 1: to watch Alena with the judge because she was not

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Speaker 1: respectful with the judge, and that this judge, Caplin is

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Speaker 1: a very strict judge.

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Speaker 3: Right as we look at this, it's absolutely typical of

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Speaker 3: the sort of broader sense of Trump world and of

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Speaker 3: Maga world today, and that world is contemptuous of expertise.

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Speaker 3: Trump needed, as somebody said, some man or a woman

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Speaker 3: who has spent a lot of time in court who

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Speaker 3: is mental strong enough to say, shut up, Donald, stop

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Speaker 3: doing that. Donald.

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Speaker 2: That's a Tom Nichols a kind of idea.

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Speaker 3: It is a Tom Nichols type take. But it's it's

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Speaker 3: not wrong. Trump doesn't have anyone like that. He doesn't

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Speaker 3: have anyone well, I mean he has Susie Wiles, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but Susie's not involved in that part of the operational side.

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Speaker 3: She's just in the campaign. I will say this with

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Speaker 3: all respect, there will become a moment where Trump's ego.

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Speaker 3: Remember there's always a good rule to follow with Trump,

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Speaker 3: the better he does, the worse he is. And if

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Speaker 3: he starts to pick up again in the polls or

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Speaker 3: anywhere else, he will And because think about it, a

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Speaker 3: lot of his shit behavior from him came right after

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Speaker 3: he started winning in Iowa and New Hampshire. Because of that,

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Speaker 3: he got that I'm invincible thing in his head. Again,

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Speaker 3: He's not invincible. We've seen it now, We've seen Robbie

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Speaker 3: take him to school and end his shenanigans.

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Speaker 1: You know, he does have more legal problems coming down

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Speaker 1: the pike, like he has a ninety one criminal count.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well look, and again I've said this hundred times.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it will not change a single MAGA vote

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Speaker 3: even if he is in prison.

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Speaker 2: But doesn't matter. All the magas are not enough.

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Speaker 3: What matters to me. What I find very satisfactory in

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Speaker 3: this moment is that Donald Trump, even if he never

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Speaker 3: spends a day in jail, he's about to have his

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Speaker 3: entire real estate empire ripped away from him because it's

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Speaker 3: built on a foundation of fraud. He is going to

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Speaker 3: lose all of that that stuffs over, and he is

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Speaker 3: going to spend the rest of his life trying to

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Speaker 3: pretend to be a billionaire and hustle around trying to

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Speaker 3: pretend to be a billionaire when he's not. He's got

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Speaker 3: nothing left and I am here for that.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about some just retail politics that I'm

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Speaker 1: not seeing a lot of discussion of. Filing deadlines were

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Speaker 1: this week for a bunch of races Arizona. Looks like

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Speaker 1: Carrie Lake does not have a lot of money. Looks

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Speaker 1: like Kirsten Cinema has even less.

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Speaker 2: I mean, is this just Reuben goes to.

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Speaker 3: Have right now? It's rubens to have not. By saying that,

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Speaker 3: I mean to also say, never ever, ever take anything

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Speaker 3: at all.

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Speaker 2: For granted, especially in Arizona, Especially.

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Speaker 3: In Arizona, It's bad juju to take anything like that

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Speaker 3: for granted. Don't do it. But the Lake brand, like

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Speaker 3: a lot of other things, trump Ism doesn't scale as

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Speaker 3: well as people think it does.

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Speaker 2: It almost never does.

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Speaker 3: If someone came in your house and acted the way

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Speaker 3: Trump does and said the things Trump says, you'd go

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Speaker 3: get the fuck out. You're insane. And if someone acted

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Speaker 3: that way in the workplace, they'd be fired. All these

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Speaker 3: things have added up to this sort of delusion on

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Speaker 3: the part of a lot of these people that they

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Speaker 3: can go out and run and pretend that they're Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump and they're not not one of them.

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Speaker 1: Is there anyone who you can think of who has

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Speaker 1: done trump Ism and hasn't underperformed at least? I mean,

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Speaker 1: like I'm thinking of like JJB Vans you have a

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Speaker 1: JD vance still ran like about ten points less than

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Speaker 1: he should have considering was Ohio.

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Speaker 3: That's true, ten is as good as one if you're winning, right,

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Speaker 3: I guess that's true. Or one is as good as

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Speaker 3: ten if you're winning.

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Speaker 2: But that's like such a red state.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen anyone else like do trumpsm and make

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Speaker 1: it work for them?

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking about it right now, and I don't really

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Speaker 3: have another person who is in a competitive seat or

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Speaker 3: state been able to pull that off. Even in congressional

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Speaker 3: districts that are pretty red. There is a limitation of it.

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Speaker 3: So they say the sort of ritualizings of I love

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump, he is the savior in the light of

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Speaker 3: my light in my heart. But they don't act like

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump. They don't go out and talk about I'm

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Speaker 3: going to be a dictator on day one, and they

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Speaker 3: don't play the Trump character that he plays in every

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Speaker 3: public interaction.

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Speaker 2: Probably the most maga congressman is mac Gads.

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Speaker 1: Mac Gates is not a product Matt Gates, right, mac Gates.

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Speaker 3: R Plus thirty two or whatever the district.

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Speaker 2: Is, yeah, Florida's first district.

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Speaker 1: But he's also like Macates is both maga, but he's

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Speaker 1: also like the son of a.

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Speaker 2: Very prominent Florida politics you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeh, a former client. Look, and his dad is his

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Speaker 3: dad is worth you know, three hundred million dollars. So

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Speaker 3: Matt has never had a problem in his life. But

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Speaker 3: none of these places or people that would imitate Trump

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Speaker 3: or trump Ism in the real world would survive. It

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Speaker 3: just doesn't work that way. And that's actually that American

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Speaker 3: should take that as a sort.

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Speaker 2: Of upbeat note, pretty good sign.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: Look, there's always been this this sort of like baseline

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Speaker 3: idea that America finds its way to back sort of

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Speaker 3: a political homeostasis at some point. And the idea that

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Speaker 3: Trump and trump Ism is as unpalatable to Americans as

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Speaker 3: would be like if you took the squad and put

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Speaker 3: them in a moderate Midwestern Democratic district. You know they

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Speaker 3: wouldn't It wouldn't work. But Trump is so far out

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Speaker 3: into the extreme ether it makes even sort of like

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Speaker 3: the most noisy progressives look fairly normal in some ways.

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Speaker 1: I love you, but compare bearing this squad to Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump is like get bearing Mussolini to the Fendi sisters.

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Speaker 3: What I said was that if you put the squad

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Speaker 3: in a in a moderate district in anywhere but where

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Speaker 3: they exist, they couldn't survive politically.

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Speaker 1: It's true, but it is like the construction is comparing

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Speaker 1: the Fendi Sisters to Mussolini. I still love you, though

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Speaker 1: I love you too. Daniella balu Eras is the CEO

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Speaker 1: of the Leadership Now Project.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics, dan HeLa.

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Speaker 5: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: It great to be here, great to have you so

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Speaker 1: talk to us about what your organization is called and

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Speaker 1: what it does.

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Speaker 5: Sure, my organization is the Leadership Now Project, and we

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Speaker 5: have since twenty seventeen been organizing and mobilizing business leaders

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Speaker 5: who are concerned with protecting American democracy.

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Speaker 2: And what does that? What does that mean? Like business

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Speaker 2: leaders explain.

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Speaker 5: It means a couple of things in terms of actual

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Speaker 5: who of who's involved. Since the start, we have had

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Speaker 5: the thesis that there are plenty of members of the

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Speaker 5: business community. I started the organization with fellow alumni from

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Speaker 5: Harvard Business School, but we're worried about the state of democracy.

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Speaker 5: And since then we've expanded across the country, and so

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Speaker 5: we have many our alumni from business schools across the

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Speaker 5: country of our now leading companies and organizations. Many are

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Speaker 5: gen xers who haven't really been politically engaged until in

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Speaker 5: a significant way, until seeing the really significant threats to

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Speaker 5: democracy after twenty sixteen, and have realized that it's in

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Speaker 5: there the country's interest, in their individual interests and in

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Speaker 5: their business interests to have a functioning system that works.

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Speaker 2: So what does that look like?

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Speaker 1: I mean, how it's one thing to say you support democracy,

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Speaker 1: but how do you actually support it?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, let me give you a couple of examples. So

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Speaker 5: we had members across the country. They are members in

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Speaker 5: their individual capacity. So if you think of organizations historically

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Speaker 5: or that still exists, like the American Bar Association, American

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Speaker 5: Medicalizations Association, organizations that have individual professionals who have a.

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Speaker 6: Perspective and a position.

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Speaker 5: Our members are coming to this as individuals, but recognizing

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Speaker 5: their interests, and that can happen in a couple of

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Speaker 5: different ways. We have focused on first, what are systems

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Speaker 5: that can make our democracy function better, So ending jerry managering,

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Speaker 5: increasing voting access, having transparent campaign finance rules, those are

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Speaker 5: all in that bucket. So we've done things like just

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Speaker 5: last week, our members in Ohio and worked with other

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Speaker 5: business leaders in the state and issued a letter and

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Speaker 5: statement supporting the objective registracting ballot initiative that is expected

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Speaker 5: to be on the ballot in November and making the case.

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Speaker 5: So we had seventy leaders from the former CEO of

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Speaker 5: Procter and Gamble to Jenny Britton, the CEO of where

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Speaker 5: the founder of Jenny's Splendid ice Cream, saying look for

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Speaker 5: the date. Having fair districts, having state legislatures who are

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Speaker 5: accountable to their citizens, that's good.

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Speaker 6: For our state.

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Speaker 5: That's good for attracting talent, and that's good for our

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Speaker 5: business as a whole. And we've been doing in Wisconsin.

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Speaker 5: Our members last year and the year before asked candidates

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Speaker 5: like Governor Evers and Tim Michaels, who ran for governor

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Speaker 5: in twenty twenty two to commit to certifying future elections

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Speaker 5: regardless of the outcome, a pretty basic question. We would

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Speaker 5: hope that every political candidate was willing to commit to that.

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Speaker 5: But when in that case the Republican candidate for governor

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Speaker 5: refused to do so, our members were very public and saying,

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Speaker 5: we're Democrats, we're Republicans, but we have to vote for democracy,

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Speaker 5: and in this case that means voting for governor evers.

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Speaker 5: So we're trying to take very specific stances on issues

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Speaker 5: that are very clearly at the core of trust in

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Speaker 5: our system, the functioning of our system, and creating a

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Speaker 5: stable and dynamic democracy that we need for our society

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Speaker 5: to function, for capitalism to function over the long term.

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Speaker 1: So there was some talk early on after Trump led

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Speaker 1: an armed insurrection that corporations weren't going to donate to him.

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Speaker 1: A lot of them have maybe not donated to him,

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Speaker 1: but donated to you know, they said they weren't going

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Speaker 1: to donate to Republicans who signed to try to overturn

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty election.

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Speaker 2: All of that has changed, largely.

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Speaker 1: Tell me some good news here, because it feels like,

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Speaker 1: in my mind, a lot of corporations have really been

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Speaker 1: quite cowardly and not really stood up for democracy.

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Speaker 2: So give us like a tiny bit of good news here.

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Speaker 7: One.

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Speaker 5: I think it is really important not to think about

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Speaker 5: businesses business leaders as a modelis right if you look

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Speaker 5: at we look at over time, what are the political

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Speaker 5: orientation of MBAs. They're about half half Democrat Republican people.

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Speaker 5: Look at how many say they support democracy, They're pretty

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Speaker 5: moderate on both sides. It's seventy to eighty percent really

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Speaker 5: are worried about it and concerned. And so the coalition

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Speaker 5: for democracy I think is very large, and it's in

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Speaker 5: all of our interests to make that as large as possible,

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Speaker 5: and business people are part of it.

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Speaker 6: I think to the specific point of the business.

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Speaker 5: Response to the interaction and what has happened around supporting

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Speaker 5: election deniers, I think what immediately happened around the election

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Speaker 5: in twenty twenty, and we were very involved in this,

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Speaker 5: that we were the first business organization to come out

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Speaker 5: in October of twenty twenty and say we have to

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Speaker 5: this election is legitimate, our processes are legitimate. We're going

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Speaker 5: to need to be patient with results. And that had

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Speaker 5: everyone from read Hoffman to mursa mayor, to many others

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Speaker 5: who signed on and through you know, the election debates

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Speaker 5: around waiting for GSA certification, the insurrection, we were really

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Speaker 5: in lockstep with many of the other business groups like

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Speaker 5: the Chamber and Business Roundtable and CEOs coming out and saying, Okay,

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Speaker 5: this is unacceptable, this election is legitimate, and then obviously

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Speaker 5: coming out against the insurrection and then stating that they

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Speaker 5: would no longer a support election deniers. And you're absolutely

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Speaker 5: right that that commitment has waned. It's not with one

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Speaker 5: hundred percent. I mean about half of those companies have

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Speaker 5: kept commitments. The dollars going from companies to election deniers

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Speaker 5: has reduced, but it has not become a standard right,

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Speaker 5: which is ideally you would like to see a more

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Speaker 5: kind of baseline set of expectations for candidates that corporate

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Speaker 5: packs would support.

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Speaker 6: So I don't have a great excuse for that.

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Speaker 5: I think that that is something that we were encouraging

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Speaker 5: companies to really take a real look at in twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty four as they make their decisions and the.

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Speaker 6: Risk that that creates.

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Speaker 5: But I do think it's important to recognize that the

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Speaker 5: way companies and business leaders are engaged in the system

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Speaker 5: is not just about you know one hundred and forty

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Speaker 5: seven members of Congress and the twenty five hundred dollars

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Speaker 5: checks that you know, a relatively limited set of companies

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Speaker 5: in the big scheme of things. Right, it comes down to,

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Speaker 5: I mean, what we know in this election, right. I mean,

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Speaker 5: you're talking to people on this podcast every day about

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Speaker 5: it is.

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Speaker 6: It's going to come.

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Speaker 5: Down to the conduct and mobilization in six states. You know,

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Speaker 5: I was recently in Arizona. Eighty percent of the election

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Speaker 5: administrators have quit. Yeah, there's intimidation all over the place,

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Speaker 5: including of the particularly of the Republican election administrators, right,

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Speaker 5: and business leaders standing up for those election administrators, helping

441
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 5: fill the gap, and poll workers encouraging going out to

442
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 5: vote publicly, standing against election deniers in this their state,

443
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 5: which is what our Wisconsin business leaders did. I mean,

444
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 5: that's even bolder from my perspective than a company deciding

445
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 5: not to write a twenty five hundred dollars check.

446
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 2: Is that happening?

447
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 6: Yeah?

448
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 5: And I mean that you know, as I mentioned, our

449
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 5: members in Wisconsin and the Wisconsin Business Leaders for Democracy

450
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 5: when they did this question neire to candidates to the

451
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 5: governor givenatorial candidates and said will use sort of five

452
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 5: future elections. They came out publicly, they endorsed Evers because

453
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 5: he was supporting democracy.

454
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 6: They shot an.

455
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 5: Ad, It was viewed ten million times, It was covered

456
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 5: all over the press, and it was a clear statement

457
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 5: to voters and too many moderate voters that you know,

458
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 5: this was an election that was first and formed about

459
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 5: for our institutions and I think for business. You know,

460
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 5: I've been disappointed by the narrative coming out of Davos.

461
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 1: Why don't you tell our listeners for those who are

462
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 1: not completely tuned in what the narrative, the incredibly ridiculous

463
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: narrative coming out of Davos.

464
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 5: Was, which I will say, I will attribute to a

465
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 5: combination of the chat or the ara to Davos, and

466
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 5: I think they're kind of overestimating how much there's a

467
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 5: singular narrative. So I think the press is weaved it

468
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 5: into like one narrative that everyone in Davos kind of

469
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 5: was taking. All of that said, I mean, there were

470
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 5: clearly data points that the press had to work with

471
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 5: around business leaders, including Jamie Diamond, suggest thing at a minimum,

472
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 5: they were willing to work with whoever would win and

473
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 5: it wouldn't really affect the us that much, and maybe

474
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 5: even that would be you know, net positive.

475
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: Right.

476
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 2: There might be a tax cut, which is insane, right,

477
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 2: but yes, I'll be in Gitmo, so I won't get

478
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 2: to see the tax cut. But yes, that's the idea.

479
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 7: I'm on the stand. It's you are.

480
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: It is this idea that corporate I mean, corporations are

481
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: now people.

482
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: They are corporations serving their corporate interest.

483
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 6: Right, right.

484
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,719
Speaker 5: But the people who made comments in Davos are people, right.

485
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 6: Those business leaders are.

486
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,120
Speaker 5: Made out of comments that they have, from my perspective,

487
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 5: a fear billit of latitude and how they frame this issue.

488
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 6: And so I think the.

489
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 5: The failure in that framing is that this election, first

490
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 5: and foremost is about of law and institutions and about

491
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 5: not what exactly what economic policy decision is.

492
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 6: Going to be made in the first month or year,

493
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 6: et cetera.

494
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 5: Although I think there are many ways that Trump will

495
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 5: be bad for trade, will be bad for many industries.

496
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 2: Well, the sixty percent tariff seems like it might be inflationary.

497
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: Trump has been mulling private lily to advisors a sixty

498
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 2: percent tariff on Chinese goods.

499
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 5: Yes, I mean there is all kinds of both bluster

500
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 5: and like real policies that could be taken that would

501
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 5: be bad economically. But I think this most important argument

502
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 5: here is the question is will you be ever able

503
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 5: to influence policy again, whether you.

504
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 6: Like the next policy or not.

505
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 5: Are we going to be at the end of real

506
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 5: democracy in this country where institutions and policies are debated

507
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 5: and fought out in different interests. You know, we might

508
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 5: not love exactly which interests have more influenced or not,

509
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 5: but ultimately, even in its imperfection, our system is about

510
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 5: rule of law, a set of representation of people. And

511
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 5: what's at stake here is really the entire system itself,

512
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 5: and that not only has real domestic you know, I

513
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 5: think the application for business, of course, are also things

514
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 5: like political retribution. We did an amicust brief. What are

515
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 5: the other things we do in addition to, you know,

516
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 5: taking positions on ballot initiatives or on expectations of political leaders?

517
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 5: Is amicus briefs on things like the Morvey Harper Independent State,

518
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 5: Independent State Legislature case, which was a case in twenty

519
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 5: twenty three that sought to just give state legislatures free

520
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 5: reign over elections, which failed, fortunately in the Supreme Court,

521
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 5: but we submitted an amarchist saying this kind of lack

522
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 5: of rule of law and uncertainty would be bad for business.

523
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 6: And we also did an amicist brief.

524
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: Which seems pretty obvious, but a lot of Republicans don't

525
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: believe that, which is bizarre, continue to say.

526
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, well yeah.

527
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 5: And this is another place where the framing does not

528
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 5: make sense of removing constitutional checks and balances the system,

529
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 5: which again are the like four of democracy rate and

530
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 5: protects everyone, I mean.

531
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 6: Including business.

532
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 5: And we didn't amachus brief on Disney's case against Governor

533
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 5: DeSantis on you know, free speech grounds and also you know,

534
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 5: the lack of constitutionality of political retribution against a company

535
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 5: for them exercising free speech as Disney did in the

536
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 5: case in Florida on LGBT rights, and that I think

537
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 5: the scale of behind the scenes political retribution or threats

538
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 5: of political retribution and then the public examples like Disney

539
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 5: are very significant.

540
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 6: I mean, we hear about it all the time, and

541
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 6: it's at it's at the state level.

542
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 5: It's threatening a company if you say anything we don't like,

543
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 5: here's the three things we're going to do on your

544
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 5: regulation on the regulatory side to a degree. I mean,

545
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 5: you know, you could argue politics has never exactly been

546
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 5: the most clean of political systems anywhere, but it has

547
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 5: gone up dramatically in the last eight years. And the

548
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 5: idea that you can just kind of hide from that

549
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 5: or that intervention in your business is something that won't happen,

550
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 5: or you can just you know, you can stop using

551
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 5: the term ESG and start saying sustainability and then they'll

552
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 5: go away. Unfortunately, history tells us that that is not

553
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 5: the case. I mean, we work with business leaders from Hungary,

554
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 5: from Turkey, from Mexico. They've all seen, as they've experienced

555
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 5: that democracy eroded. The political leadership is willing to completely

556
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 5: go after them, go after them personally, go after their businesses,

557
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 5: make it impossible for them to operate. I mean, you

558
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 5: see in Hong Kong the number of business leaders that

559
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 5: have been thrown in jail. Go back to Pazi Germany.

560
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 5: You know, it really is unfortunately, very naive. What we

561
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 5: know is that business leaders over history are often naive

562
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 5: that they can kind of work with the autocrat. Unfortunately,

563
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 5: you know, they'll just kind of not take them on,

564
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 5: and that never ends well at all.

565
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: Exactly what can our listeners do to support your organization

566
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: and also just to support democracy as all.

567
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 5: Absolutely, And I mean I think one just one other

568
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 5: comment on Davos and the commentary there and this commentary

569
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 5: that business has come to terms with Trump. I really

570
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 5: think that is not helpful because business and business leaders,

571
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 5: whether it's the Fortune five hundred or at a state

572
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 5: level across different industries, is just are just not monolithic.

573
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 5: And there of business leaders and plenty of power that

574
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 5: we have in this country, whether it's in business or

575
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 5: in civil society, who does not want to see the

576
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 5: erosion of rule of law. And that's not purely defined

577
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 5: by democrat versus Republican. And lots of people don't even

578
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 5: like to think of themselves first, second, or third as partisan, right.

579
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 5: They think of themselves as a business person, They think

580
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 5: of themselves as a mom, They think of you know,

581
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 5: all all of those things that I am, you know,

582
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 5: I think about and I'm a New Yorker like all

583
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 5: of those identities. There's no readings, and we shouldn't be,

584
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 5: you know, thinking about them broadly. And I really do

585
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 5: think we have many examples in recent years of business

586
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 5: people and business leaders taking a position.

587
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 6: Here and there's no reason we can't do more.

588
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 5: And I think one of the you know, lessons from

589
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 5: I find Tim Snyder's work The Yell Historians so instructive

590
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,959
Speaker 5: and his on iranny, you know, his twenty steps of

591
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 5: how to kind of resist autocracy. The first one is

592
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 5: don't obey in advance if there's bluster around you know, oh,

593
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 5: we're scared.

594
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 6: That Donald tweet.

595
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 5: Donald Trump might tweet against us, or there might be

596
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 5: you know, threats of retaliatory regulation, et cetera. What autocrats

597
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 5: depend on is you taking action before they even do anything.

598
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 5: So I think that kind of reminder to everyone, like,

599
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 5: you know, don't change the way you're operating in your

600
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 5: business or in life just because you're fear of what

601
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 5: might happen later, because that increases the chance that happens later.

602
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 5: And I think the other thing is, which is relevant

603
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 5: to business or to engaging any civic group, right, is

604
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 5: that like small actions and small groups of people do

605
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 5: have a lot of power. So even you know what

606
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 5: we've seen, if even a dozen executives in the city

607
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 5: come together and say, how are we going to protect

608
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 5: be part of protecting election administrators in this state?

609
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 6: What are we going to do publicly.

610
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 5: How do we work with other civic groups, How do

611
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 5: we make it unacceptable for threats? For election administrators that

612
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 5: can have a lot of power, you don't need to have,

613
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 5: like you know, all the leaders in your state or

614
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 5: city involved, you can you can move, which I think

615
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 5: is going to be so important in the next nine months.

616
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 5: And then I you know, I think a basic thing

617
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 5: that any leader of an organization can do also is

618
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,479
Speaker 5: give time out for voting, you know, make sure that

619
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 5: everyone's aware of all.

620
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 6: Of the ways to engage.

621
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 5: We have such a desperate need for poll workers, for instance,

622
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 5: because so many are quittings. So I think just supporting

623
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 5: that engagement, et cetera. I'll say one last thing on

624
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 5: the point of what can people do? Mali, I see

625
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 5: that we both grew up in New York.

626
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 6: I was in Brooklyn mostly before Brooklyn was cool, maybe

627
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 6: a gritty cool.

628
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 5: I was reflecting on how the former president was so

629
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 5: present in the press and around the time that you

630
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 5: and I were both young, and you would have lots

631
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 5: of Donalds in and Evada press and publicity, and how

632
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 5: that seemed kind of farcical at the time, and how

633
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 5: it seems anything but that now, but I do think

634
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 5: New Yorkers I feel an extra obligation to be part

635
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 5: of addressing these threats to democracy since it's kind of a.

636
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 2: Home we created him. Yes, yes, thank you so much, Daniella.

637
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 6: That was great, great to connect.

638
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: Arelis Hernandez is a correspondent for The Washington Post.

639
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,719
Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics at our alis.

640
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 7: Happy to be here. Thank you.

641
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: He wrote this incredible piece on the border.

642
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: I am so conflicted because I want to cover the

643
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: border because there's a humanitarian crisis going on there. But

644
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: it feels to me that the way it's being covered

645
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: as a political crisis when in fact it's really a

646
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: humanitarian crisis.

647
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 7: What is it like so right now, actually, crossings have plummeted.

648
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 7: I'm actually an Eagle Pass right now, and you know

649
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 7: there's some activity down the river, but right now there's

650
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 7: sort of in a stasis. I can describe to you

651
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 7: Shelby Park for example, of this riverfront park here in

652
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 7: Eagle Pass, it has quite a bit of sort of

653
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 7: military personnel there. There are raes or wire shipping containers,

654
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 7: and they're continuing to sort of place more and more

655
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 7: stuff as a barrier as a deterrent to migrants, and

656
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 7: so what we have been hearing from local officials and

657
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 7: particularly law enforcement and fire rescue folks here at Eagle

658
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 7: Pass is that because migrants are seeing that this path

659
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 7: that was once available that I'm to cross the river

660
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,239
Speaker 7: is longer available, they're going upriver and downriver, where in

661
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 7: some cases the water is more swift, it's deeper, and

662
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 7: it's a bit more dangerous across.

663
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: One of the things you what about in this pieces,

664
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: you talked about how you know there are soldiers there.

665
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: There's a whole sort of security industrial complex booming in

666
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 1: the town of Eagle Pass.

667
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 7: Right, Yes, I mean on normal date is right when

668
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 7: you don't have the State of Texas and the National

669
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 7: Guard occupying a city municipal park, there is tons of

670
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 7: federal law enforcement and border control that are here regularly controlling.

671
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 7: The reason that we think that crossing xanthropped off in

672
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 7: the new year has to do in part with some

673
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 7: of the work that's happening in Mexico, with our diplomats

674
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 7: and some of our congressional leaders negotiating with Mexico to

675
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 7: have the National Police over there be also more aggressive

676
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 7: in stopping groups from reaching northern Mexico. In this case,

677
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 7: this is called Quawia States, which is the sister city

678
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 7: to Eagle Pass, and there they've been more successful in,

679
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 7: for example, taking migrantsoft buses, stopping them from boarding flights

680
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 7: to the border, intercepting caravans and sending them back south

681
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 7: to Tabatula or to the Guatemala Mexico border. And so

682
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 7: you know, the US has been in this holding pattern

683
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 7: of sorts where the numbers sort of fluctuate, in part

684
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 7: depending on how much interest Mexico has in stopping those

685
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 7: groups from even reaching the border.

686
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 2: Right, I want you to talk about.

687
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: Because one of the things that was so moved with

688
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 1: your piece was about how this is really a dangerous cross.

689
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: I mean, people die doing.

690
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 7: This all the time. In fact, I was with a

691
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 7: shared deputy yesterday and we were talking through His job

692
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 7: for a long time was just to respond to the

693
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 7: remains of migrants dubbed floaters, because if you drown in

694
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 7: the river, it takes a couple of days for your

695
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 7: body to inflate and float up to the surface of

696
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 7: the river. He handled two hundred and twenty five bodies

697
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 7: in twenty twenty two alone. There are different groups that

698
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 7: have different numbers than metic Balok x Amner's officer, the

699
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 7: Justice of the Peace, Board of Patrol has different numbers,

700
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 7: but we're talking about hundreds of people, men, women and children,

701
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 7: and in some cases women who are pregnant, you know,

702
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 7: good and distressing the river and then give burst his

703
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 7: stillborn children. On the US side. It's a massive tragedy.

704
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 1: So one of the things you read about in this

705
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: piece is the town of Eagle Pass. The people around

706
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: there have a lot of mixed feelings about immigration and

707
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: these people coming over the border.

708
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, so Eagle Pass is technically part of Tony gonzalezis

709
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 7: a Republican his district. This is a place where people

710
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 7: are mostly voting Democrat, but are very conservative or at

711
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 7: least extremely moderate, and they're facing this in different ways.

712
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 7: For example, if you're a local firefighter, you're experiencing the

713
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 7: trauma of having to respond to migrant rescues all the time.

714
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 7: If you're someone who needs the here to the hospital

715
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 7: in Eagle Past, you're having to wait some time because

716
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 7: a lagrant might be occupying that bed that you need.

717
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 7: If you're a shared's deputy who is experienced, like, there

718
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 7: are different layers to this. So people I think are

719
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 7: for the most part, are largely sympathetic to the fact

720
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 7: that people are making this choice to joiney northward and

721
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 7: to seek asylum, but are angry about the resources and

722
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 7: more than anything, I think the sort of inaction of

723
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 7: both the state and the federal government in providing actual

724
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 7: solutions to the problem. Right.

725
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 2: And that's I.

726
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: Think a really important point here, because Biden had asked

727
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: for all this border money and Republicans had said no,

728
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: And then there was a border bill which nobody's seen

729
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: but is probably not going to make anyone happy. Until

730
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: you have legislation, Biden can't really executive order his way

731
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 1: out of those as much as Republicans pretend to want

732
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: him to. So, like, these people who live in this community,

733
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 1: are they feel that they're not I mean, they don't

734
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 1: just feel it, It's really true that they're not able

735
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 1: Like the part of in the piece you wrote about

736
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: how like, you know, people who have a heart attack

737
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: can't get an ambulance because they're trying to save someone

738
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: who's drowning in the river, right.

739
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 7: Right exactly. I mean they're literally in the middle in

740
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 7: every single way and dimension of this particular humanitarian issue.

741
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,919
Speaker 7: And you know, folks are trying to sort of figure

742
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 7: out a way that they can be a part of

743
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 7: the conversation, whether at the state or the federal level.

744
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 7: I mean, if you ask regular folks in egal past,

745
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 7: they won't blame the governor for stepping in the way

746
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 7: he has. They don't think it's effective or will solve

747
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 7: the problem, but they sympathize with that frustration that like,

748
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 7: here you have thousands of people every day, like at

749
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 7: some point it was like five thousand people every day

750
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 7: crossing the river into your community. And while you know,

751
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 7: in sort of direct everyday way, you're not interacting or

752
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 7: having encounters with micro depending on where you live within

753
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 7: the rural or in the city, but you are feeling

754
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 7: sort of like the residual effects of all of that.

755
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 2: Right exactly.

756
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 1: And it's complicated because a lot of these people are

757
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: new immigrants.

758
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 7: Right, And I mean you've got all kinds of different

759
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 7: sort of family dynamics in the borderlands. In some cases,

760
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 7: there are folks who've been here since you know, Spanish

761
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 7: were here in this region and this was still Mexico.

762
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 7: And then you have people who, yeah, who are one

763
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 7: or two generations removed from having migrated themselves or their

764
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 7: families are still on the other side in Piados Negadas

765
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,439
Speaker 7: who are in mixed status families, so again like they

766
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 7: understand and they sympathize. There is a little bit of

767
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 7: sort of quiet resentment, particularly on Mexicans who migrated to

768
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 7: the United States work in Eagle Pasts and are trying

769
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 7: to bring their families across because there's a perception that, right,

770
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 7: and they've spent money, they spent years trying to bring

771
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 7: their wife or their child across the Eagle Past, and

772
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 7: here are thousands of people seemingly getting a free pass

773
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 7: and access to resources to be able to move about

774
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 7: the country. There is some resentment that exists, but it's

775
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 7: more a resentment I think good.

776
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 3: Right.

777
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 7: My perception is with the government sort of not being

778
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 7: able to manage this in a way that makes sense.

779
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 2: Right, what happens to people when they come over? How

780
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:16,399
Speaker 2: does it go?

781
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 7: So there is no straight script for what happens to

782
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 7: a person when they cross the river step on US soil.

783
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 7: Maybe as for asylums or coming to relief and going

784
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 7: to border patrol custing, there are a couple of things

785
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 7: that can happen, and it all depends on what country

786
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 7: you come from who you are, like male or female child,

787
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 7: they're coming as a family, and how you crossed. And

788
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 7: so for example, for those Venezula migrants, that couple that

789
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 7: I met, the twenty five and twenty one year old,

790
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 7: they were clearly asking for protection at asylum for political

791
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 7: persecution in Venezuela. In that case, had this been sort

792
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 7: of a normal border patrol interaction, those folks would have

793
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 7: been taken into custody. If they ask for asylum verbally,

794
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 7: they would have had a conversation with an asylum officer

795
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 7: and screened for credible seer and then would have moved

796
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 7: on the process. Depending on sort of the discretion of

797
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 7: the various officers involved in that process, they could have

798
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 7: been released on parole into the United States place and detention,

799
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 7: possibly even deported because we do we are doing deportation

800
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 7: flights to Venezuela. And it's no secret to anyone here

801
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 7: that of you know, the thousands of people who pastor

802
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,399
Speaker 7: assylament entered that process, a large number of them, as

803
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 7: the laws written out, probably won't qualify for asylum in

804
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 7: this country.

805
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: I feel like the politics of this have gotten so

806
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: removed from the actual experience of people can you talk

807
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: a little bit about what these people have done by

808
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: the time they gotten to Ego Pass, like what their

809
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: trip looks like.

810
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 7: Yes, I can give you sort of what the stereotypical

811
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 7: and again it really varies from migrant to migrant, depending

812
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 7: on a nationality and their economic resources. Frankly, but in

813
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 7: recent years a lot of migration has been coming through

814
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 7: South America, particularly Venescuela, in some cases Cuba and Nicaragua.

815
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 7: These are all places that we don't have diplomatic relations

816
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 7: with and that are you know, run by socialists or

817
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 7: governments or autocracies, right, and these folks do in some

818
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 7: cases across the Darien Jungle, which is links Columbia to

819
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,919
Speaker 7: Panama to get onto the Isthmus and the continent, they're

820
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 7: crossing eight or nine national borders along the way. They're

821
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 7: facing all kinds of dangerous situations, extortion rights, you know,

822
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 7: vulnerability to criminal organizations. In some cases they are getting help,

823
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,919
Speaker 7: like they've had relatives who've made that journey and are

824
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 7: you know, have basically mapped it out for them, told

825
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 7: them which bus is to take, or jumping on top

826
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 7: of trains. It's such a constellation of experiences that you

827
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 7: can have, but all of it, none of it is

828
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 7: is easy.

829
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 1: There are people coming from places also that you would

830
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: not expect, right, Can you talk about that?

831
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 7: Yes, I've talked to particularly folks who run in geos

832
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 7: in this sector of the border that have seen folks

833
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 7: from Vietnam, from Senegal, from Marisha, from Syria in some cases,

834
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 7: or Russians. You know, people have gotten the message and

835
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 7: you know, cartails and criminal organizations have will We've spread

836
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 7: that message that if you are seeking this kind of

837
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 7: protection or you just want to make the trip to

838
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 7: the USA, this is the way to go.

839
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: This is a people problem more than it is a

840
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: stuff problem.

841
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 7: Right, I think so, right, Yeah, yeah.

842
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: I mean I'm just saying, like the fentanyl is not

843
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 1: flowing over this border, right, These people don't have anything

844
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: with them, is what I'm.

845
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 2: Trying to get to.

846
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 7: Oh, yeah, this is this is a human smuggling, human exploitation,

847
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 7: and human migration situation.

848
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

849
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 7: That there's folks that who are bringing drugs, absolutely, but

850
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 7: they're for the most part, they're not amongst the surrenderers.

851
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:37,399
Speaker 3: Right.

852
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 7: The large majority of people that you see in images.

853
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: And the people who are bringing drugs are probably coming

854
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: through ports.

855
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 7: Of entry, yes, and in vehicles and people who work

856
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 7: for organizations and not how to do this work.

857
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: Yes, right, So if you were a good faith actor,

858
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: which I'm not sure Republicans are, you are seeing firsthand

859
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 1: what the issues are.

860
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 2: In your mind. I know this is like kind of.

861
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: Unfair as you're straight journalist, but like, what are your

862
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: sense of how if you were.

863
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 2: The president you would solve this problem. I'm sorry to

864
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 2: ask you this question.

865
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,439
Speaker 1: But I'm just curious if you have solves that you've

866
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: seen because you're.

867
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 7: There, I'm going to sort of relay what folks who

868
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 7: live here has been trying to advance for a long time.

869
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 7: There are a bunch of influential business people and political

870
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 7: years out here who have advanced some of these solutions

871
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,479
Speaker 7: have gotten nowhere the conversation in Congress. So we're talking

872
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 7: about specifically aligning migration to labor needs in the United States.

873
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 7: We're talking about creating many ellis islands where you have

874
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 7: civilian people who are in charge of specifically processing folks

875
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 7: at the borer seeing asylum and making a very clear

876
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 7: pathway for them to be able to do that so

877
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 7: they don't have to cross the river. That there's like

878
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 7: a special line for them at the bridge, and that

879
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 7: there's a processing center for them to be able to

880
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 7: do that, and to increase the number of immigration judges

881
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 7: and asylum officers that are reviewing these cases so you

882
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 7: don't have these bag backlogs and rating waiting two to

883
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,919
Speaker 7: three years. I mean it. The availability of legal pathways

884
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 7: has diminished over the decades for folks, and you know,

885
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 7: the asylum seemed to be that pathway as sylolon does

886
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 7: need to change, probably at least that's what borderlanders are saying,

887
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 7: because again the realities don't match what experiences that people

888
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 7: are bringing. And spinning that forward into sort of a

889
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 7: question of demographic labor and economics. The United States is

890
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 7: aging quite rapidly and baby boomers are coming out of

891
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 7: the workforce, in which case you're going to need people

892
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 7: to fill those jobs. You're going to need people to

893
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 7: for those industries. So I think there are practical solutions

894
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 7: that again borderlanders advance and if you want, there is

895
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 7: a common sense playbook that the International Bank of Commerce

896
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,280
Speaker 7: that just situated in the borderlands. Dennis Nixon is the president.

897
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 7: He has tried to push this forever and again has

898
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 7: not made an intraction.

899
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're basically saying that a better funded federal

900
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: government would be able to handle this crisis, and in fact,

901
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 1: it may have been created by a Republican party that

902
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: wants the federal government to fail.

903
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 2: You don't have to agree with that.

904
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I mean there's a debate or in that

905
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:12,879
Speaker 7: space about that.

906
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: But yes, I mean it seems like the government, if

907
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: it had enough money to address this problem, could solve

908
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: it or at least make it better.

909
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 7: I think there is some sense of that. Maybe it

910
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 7: isn't a question of more money, but more targeted and

911
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 7: efficient use of that money towards the kinds of commons

912
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 7: and solution bringing ideas that borderlanders again have advanced for years.

913
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, now that these numbers are down a little bit,

914
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: do you think that why the numbers are down are

915
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: because Mexico is sort of doing more remain in Mexico stuff.

916
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 7: Remain in Mexico is a totally different sort of paradigm,

917
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 7: but in terms of they are doing more enforcement, they

918
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 7: are keeping migrants from getting to the river or the

919
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 7: desert line. So like you know, they're not in some

920
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 7: cases not issuing tickets to ride buses that would be

921
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 7: headed Norris or they're pulling off them off with trains,

922
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 7: those kind of enforcement actions.

923
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: So that is why it's happening.

924
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 7: It's part of the reason.

925
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:08,439
Speaker 2: Yes, right.

926
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: Do you think that if there were really a clear

927
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: path to citizenship that that would slow these illegal crossings.

928
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 7: That's a great question. Part of the issue is that

929
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:23,439
Speaker 7: you're combating a criminal international criminal organizations that are incredibly

930
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 7: sophisticated and have been known to adapt very quickly to

931
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 7: whatever the problems of changes of the border are, and

932
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 7: they'll figure out how to make money. But I think

933
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,720
Speaker 7: if you make it safer, if you make it clearer,

934
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 7: if there are clear expectations for what happens when I

935
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 7: enter this process, then you know, you could potentially create

936
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 7: a scenario where people bypass those criminal organizations altogether. Now

937
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 7: that's also you know, idealistic and futuristic, and I don't

938
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 7: know what's actually going to happen, but that's okay.

939
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: We need to be idealistic, especially when it comes to

940
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 1: we have this tight labor market. We have this you know,

941
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: we are not keeping up growing our population. This is

942
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: my opinion now, and I'm on the opinion space, so

943
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: I can say this, these are people we need in

944
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: this country.

945
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 2: It's just a question of how to be able to

946
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 2: get them here.

947
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 7: And to be clear, like I mean, they're not thinking

948
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,879
Speaker 7: that all of these folks are exactly what the United

949
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 7: States needs. I think there is very much from business

950
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 7: leaders at least, this sense that we should match the

951
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 7: skills that some of these folks, if they have, you know,

952
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 7: special skills to the labor needs in the United States.

953
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 7: It's like the idea of a guest worker program, for example,

954
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 7: is something that is still pretty popular amongst I think

955
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 7: a lot of different sectors of folks who live here

956
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 7: on the border.

957
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:42,479
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Arellis for taking the time with us.

958
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 7: It's my pleasure happy to shed light on some of

959
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:45,959
Speaker 7: this stuff.

960
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: In a moment, and so so let me ask you,

961
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: do you have a moment of fuckery, Rick Wilson.

962
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 3: My moment of fuckery is every one of these assholes

963
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 3: in MAGA universe who are still ship talking and down

964
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 3: talking the American economy because at this point they can't

965
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 3: deny that Joe Biden's economy is so good and so

966
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,800
Speaker 3: strong and growing stronger by the day. We've got record

967
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 3: wage growth for the first time in fifty five years,

968
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 3: we've got record job growth, we've got record energy production.

969
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 3: Prices are coming down faster than they went up. We've

970
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 3: got gas prices under three bucks a gallon everywhere in

971
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 3: the country except California. Now we've got an amazing economy.

972
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 3: And these people that continue, like on Fox, they are

973
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 3: like some say, they'll wait to see if these numbers

974
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:45,720
Speaker 3: are adjusted later. Walking past that graveyard is not working

975
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 3: out as well as y'all think.

976
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 2: So and men, that was an incredible yeah.

977
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 3: Wasn't it. So that's my moment of fucker. He is

978
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,919
Speaker 3: all these people down talking the American economy right now, when,

979
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 3: by god, you know, at some point just some basic

980
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 3: reality check on these people. I know how too much

981
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 3: it irritates them. But here we are.

982
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: It is so insane to me that you know, look,

983
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: it's exactly what Trump said. He wants the economy to creator,

984
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: he wants there to be a recession. He doesn't want

985
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: to be Herbert Hoover, right, remember that.

986
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 3: Ah, yeah, he knows what's going on.

987
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:20,839
Speaker 2: Well, he sort of knows what's going on.

988
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 3: Well, no, but he does see that there's a very

989
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 3: difficult case to be made to pretend that the economy

990
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 3: is somehow this dark and perilous place. Now, it's really

991
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 3: hard to do that now.

992
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: And so he's going to prevent legislation for the border

993
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: in the hopes that that will provide him enough to

994
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,399
Speaker 1: make a theory of the case that that will give

995
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: him something to run it. Because right now the economy

996
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 1: is good, inflation is going down. There are so many

997
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: sort of wins in this Biden economy political at this morning,

998
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: which I am going to just read you a tiny

999
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: bit of because it's such an incredible little thing that

1000
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: I completely missed. It's called thirty things that Joe Biden

1001
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: did as president, which you might have missed, and they

1002
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 1: include expanding overtime guarantees for millions. First over, the counter

1003
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 1: birth control pill to hit US stores in twenty twenty four,

1004
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: which means that people who can't afford doctors, which is

1005
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: a large percentage.

1006
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 2: Of American women.

1007
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, sad, we.

1008
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: Can get birth control, gun violence prevention, and gun safety

1009
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:35,760
Speaker 1: get a boost.

1010
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 2: I know that's something near and dear to your heart.

1011
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: Renewable power is the number two source of electricity in

1012
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 1: the United States, and climbing. Did you know that I

1013
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: did not know that? I did know that preventing discriminatory

1014
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: mortgage lending.

1015
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 2: He did that.

1016
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: He sweeping cracked down on junk fees and overdraft charges,

1017
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: forcing Chinese companies to open their books. I me in

1018
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: preventing another January sixth. I mean my man building armies

1019
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: of drones to counter China that I have mixed feelings

1020
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: about the drones. Nations, farms, get big bucks to go climb.

1021
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 2: It's smart. I mean. Biden scrabs Trump's paint scheme for

1022
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 2: Air Force one.

1023
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 3: Here's the thing. The economy that Donald Trump fantasizes about

1024
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 3: in his head is Joe Biden's economy. The economy donald

1025
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 3: Trump pretended he was delivering for America is actually the

1026
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 3: economy Joe Biden has built. And all the Trump stuff

1027
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 3: was always a Potemkin village. It was always a sort

1028
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 3: of illusion to make his own himself happy. It was

1029
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 3: always sort of like, you know, maga porn, and Biden's delivered.

1030
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 3: So people that criticize that, they are in my moment

1031
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 3: of the fuckery. Thank you, Rick, good night, good day,

1032
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 3: and all that.

1033
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1034
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds

1035
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

1036
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: toward what you've heard, please send it to a friend

1037
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,240
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again thanks for listening.