Speaker 1: Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and The Black Effect.
Speaker 2: What's Up, everybody?
Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Checking In, y'all.
Speaker 1: It's going to be a fun one. When you've got
Speaker 1: a longtime friend that's checking in, you are bound for laughs, wisdom.
Speaker 1: I have no idea what he's gonna share, but I'm
Speaker 1: so excited to have award winning television producer, my personal friend,
Speaker 1: John Murray is coming up next on Checking In. Y'all.
Speaker 1: Welcome to another another fabulous week of Checking In. I
Speaker 1: cannot do what I do without you and your continuous
Speaker 1: support and those downloads. You gotta keep those downloads going.
Speaker 1: I'm excited about today's episode because I've got a dear friend,
Speaker 1: oh going on a lot of number of years. He
Speaker 1: has been a TV commentator, executive producer, pop culture expert.
Speaker 1: Once again, did I say executive producer executive producer of
Speaker 1: the Emmy nominated amazing show, The Sherry Shepherd Show.
Speaker 2: Please welcome my friend John Murray.
Speaker 3: I love that because you always say my name like
Speaker 3: we're on Bobby, Joe, Bunny, judesus.
Speaker 1: But John, he calls me, so we talked, so he
Speaker 1: never gets to see how I look when I said, John.
Speaker 3: Murray, you know, since we hear checking in, I'm just
Speaker 3: checking into my checking in. Candles that I have from
Speaker 3: you over here still smells really good, so good that
Speaker 3: I haven't burned it yet because you haven't sent me
Speaker 3: another one.
Speaker 1: So black people, black people, why don't we burn the candles?
Speaker 3: Sometimes they smell too good to birth. Sometimes you just want,
Speaker 3: you know, burn that.
Speaker 2: Candle so you can get another one.
Speaker 3: Yes, I need to go, and I do need to
Speaker 3: go and get me another one. But it's wonderful. I
Speaker 3: love it so and you said, I have it right
Speaker 3: here behind me, y'all.
Speaker 1: He is sitting in his office of The Sherry Shepherd Show.
Speaker 2: So I'm so thankful for his time.
Speaker 3: Is that? Okay?
Speaker 2: Let me guess what it is? NAACP Award in the back.
Speaker 3: Oh, this little thing right here. Yes, this is my
Speaker 3: NAACP Image Award that I got for Season one of
Speaker 3: the Sherify Show for Outstanding Talk Shows. One of the
Speaker 3: executive producers, you get one of the awards. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm very proud of this. You know, there's another award
Speaker 3: on my other side. You can't see it in the shot,
Speaker 3: but it's called the Telly Award. So all of our
Speaker 3: digital campaigns are something that we used to launch the
Speaker 3: Chevy Show. We got recognized for this was the Telly
Speaker 3: Bronze Award for a fun Joy and Laughter and fun
Speaker 3: Joy Laughter was the part of the campaign that also
Speaker 3: got us Emmy nomination for season one. So we're excited
Speaker 3: that folks have connected with our little show that Could,
Speaker 3: and you know, one a few wards nominated for some others.
Speaker 3: We just got nominated for People's Choice Awards, So we're
Speaker 3: just grateful that people really are connected with our message.
Speaker 1: You know, well, that's what our relationship has been about.
Speaker 1: And the relationship that you have with people translate very
Speaker 1: well on television because that's just who you are, a
Speaker 1: person that loves to have fun, full of joy, full
Speaker 1: of laughter.
Speaker 2: I met John.
Speaker 3: Two thousand and eight, so the first time we met
Speaker 3: was brief. He was at one of the Soul Traine Awards.
Speaker 3: You had just put out your solo album Hard to Yours.
Speaker 4: Oh, two thousand and two one, and Tony Ferguson, who
Speaker 4: worked at Sony Records with your personal publicis Now You've
Speaker 4: Got No Shore, was handling you at.
Speaker 3: The Soul Train Awards. Tony and I were good friends.
Speaker 3: He's a big champion of around when I started in
Speaker 3: the business, initially as a writer, and so he knew
Speaker 3: I always love people who could bridge the gap. You
Speaker 3: are a church girl who's doing mainstream music, and hearty
Speaker 3: yours was your fur way back into gospel music. So
Speaker 3: he knew I wanted to meet you, and he brought
Speaker 3: me up and introduced me to you. He was like,
Speaker 3: this is your biggest fan, and he jokingly says, one
Speaker 3: day y'all gonna get married. He was like, well, honey,
Speaker 3: where's the ring? And we laughed and we took a photo.
Speaker 3: And then years later I was at the opening of
Speaker 3: The Color Purple in La so you might remember that
Speaker 3: year better than me, and one of the guys who
Speaker 3: was in the ensemble of the show went to introduce us,
Speaker 3: and he was like, I don't know who you are.
Speaker 3: You've been talking about me on the town a boarding show.
Speaker 3: I've been hearing you. I love when you talk about me.
Speaker 3: And we laughed and he was like, here, stay in
Speaker 3: touch with me. But you gave me your email address,
Speaker 3: not your telephone number. And but years later, you know,
Speaker 3: we built our rapport and I remember there was something
Speaker 3: going on in the industry that I was like, I
Speaker 3: want to give you some insight on something, and I
Speaker 3: sent you an email and you called me. I was
Speaker 3: on my way to the toront Film Festival, because I
Speaker 3: remember I can see myself sitting in the airport when
Speaker 3: we had our conversation and we sat and talked, and
Speaker 3: we've been talking on the phone ever since.
Speaker 1: Y'all, listen, that's why you gotta be careful how you
Speaker 1: treat people, because sometimes they remember more. I guess maybe
Speaker 1: the person that's on the receiving end of various types
Speaker 1: of communication remembers more.
Speaker 2: I only gave you my email address.
Speaker 3: And but listen, boundaries, you've learned that over time, sometimes
Speaker 3: you got to you know, you got to start slow
Speaker 3: with people on the same way down. People will run
Speaker 3: up to me on the street. Now, this is a
Speaker 3: working in this business. I've always had a level of notoriety,
Speaker 3: but being in people's homes every day, it's a whole
Speaker 3: different investment. Like people feel like they know you. And
Speaker 3: because Sharry and I are friends in real life, though
Speaker 3: I happen to be the executive producer or her talk show,
Speaker 3: people see our friendship, and they try to emulate that
Speaker 3: when I run to them in the grocery stores and
Speaker 3: then the target and places like that. And so people
Speaker 3: can be really aggressive and run up for you. You'll
Speaker 3: give me a number, And so I had to learn
Speaker 3: how to establish boundaries because you know, you know, sometimes
Speaker 3: you don't want the confrontation of an aggressive Now though
Speaker 3: I'm very comfortable with the word no, but sometimes people
Speaker 3: can catch you in a weird predicament where they put
Speaker 3: you on the spot and you're trying to navigate out
Speaker 3: of it. And so Google Voice and those telephone numbers
Speaker 3: have worked to create a great alternative to the fact
Speaker 3: that no, no, you can call this number. You just
Speaker 3: hain't called the one that's you know, getting direct access
Speaker 3: to me.
Speaker 1: They go, get this number, yeah, yeah, John, and I
Speaker 1: go as far back to what was known as AOL
Speaker 1: Black voices.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a good time.
Speaker 2: Such good times.
Speaker 1: I always looked forward to looking to see what was
Speaker 1: going to be on AOL Black voices.
Speaker 2: So you got your start. You are a writer and
Speaker 2: me he was a writer journalist like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, real journalisten. Yes. I went to an HBCU
Speaker 3: Norfolk State University, inspired to go to an HBCU because
Speaker 3: I love the sitcom A different world. And I went
Speaker 3: to school and I would tell my professors, I'm not
Speaker 3: learning any of the technical stuff. I gonna be a star.
Speaker 3: I'm working in television. I only need to learn how
Speaker 3: to work a camera. That kid was so arrogant, even
Speaker 3: though he wasn't. He just had a vision, you know.
Speaker 3: But I had a professor that told me, he was like, listen,
Speaker 3: TV's gonna be hard, and as a black man, it's
Speaker 3: gonna be particularly harder for you to break into it,
Speaker 3: and you need to think of a plan. B He's like,
Speaker 3: you're a really good writer. So I started taking journalism
Speaker 3: courses as my electives. And the whole dot com boom
Speaker 3: was happening. All the digital companies were happening. Everybody was
Speaker 3: really thriving in the digital space. And here I was
Speaker 3: a college kid who created a newsletter after an internship
Speaker 3: at a radio station in DC just started generating national
Speaker 3: attention for me. It was based off my middle name.
Speaker 3: It was called Garrick News. I had to set up
Speaker 3: in a Hotmail account and people would come to the
Speaker 3: radio station or come into my market. They give me
Speaker 3: their email and you had to email me to get
Speaker 3: added to my database because it didn't have one of
Speaker 3: those lists serves and stuff like we have now to
Speaker 3: send out newsletters and stuff like that. So our master's
Speaker 3: database of celebrities, and then sometimes I signed it to
Speaker 3: my AOL account and celebrities would hit me in the
Speaker 3: instant message and then I'd have to hit some other
Speaker 3: celebrity I met and be like, YO, is this such
Speaker 3: and such celebrities real message chat name? But I had
Speaker 3: like four major celebrity friends who befriended me through instant
Speaker 3: message chat because they love the work. And so the
Speaker 3: newsletter turned into me working for a newsworter called euur Web.
Speaker 3: I was there a short amount of time, and then
Speaker 3: AOL had acquired Black Voices, and I got approached about
Speaker 3: doing what was initially a weekly column. And then when
Speaker 3: the age of the blog came about, they turned our
Speaker 3: weekly content into like daily content to kind of compete
Speaker 3: in the blog space. But my column was one of
Speaker 3: the most successful columns there, and so I left Norflea
Speaker 3: State before graduating because the work and the money offers
Speaker 3: got so good. I was like, how come I can
Speaker 3: finish this up later? But my writing career really took off,
Speaker 3: and here I am, indeed at the time was in
Speaker 3: DC uh and even though DC had b ET's headquarters,
Speaker 3: TV one's headquarters, Discovery had an office there. Serious had
Speaker 3: a headquarter there before merging with Serious x M. It
Speaker 3: was a political time and I was able to make
Speaker 3: a national name for myself as a writer. And one
Speaker 3: of the things that worked for me was that, for
Speaker 3: the most part of a celebrity freely. You know, sometimes
Speaker 3: celebrities would get mad if you just would report the
Speaker 3: truth about them, as celebrities often do. But I was, well,
Speaker 3: you know, but I cared more about the human nature
Speaker 3: of celebrities than I did about the selacious nature of
Speaker 3: stories and a headline or what we now call clickbait
Speaker 3: of gotscha moments, and having that level of care for
Speaker 3: people and their humanity early on, and maybe it was
Speaker 3: the church boy and me, it has served me well
Speaker 3: my entire career because many of those relationships that started
Speaker 3: when I was just the writer continue to flourish now
Speaker 3: and have even helped me with booking some of the
Speaker 3: guests and calling in some favors here to talk show.
Speaker 1: Listen, let me tell you something. Everything that he is
Speaker 1: saying is true. I'm going to share this with you,
Speaker 1: y'all remember those times I was co hosting on the
Speaker 1: View or the talk.
Speaker 2: Meredith Vieira.
Speaker 1: It is all because of John Murray's insight, and I
Speaker 1: have to thank him for that, Like that is what
Speaker 1: I've wanted to do, was to be a co host
Speaker 1: on one of these talk shows. And I believe it
Speaker 1: is going to happen one day. But John could have,
Speaker 1: knowing that that's something that he wanted to do, he
Speaker 1: didn't have to tell me that. He could have easily
Speaker 1: just kept it to himself for himself to be on there.
Speaker 1: And we thought we were going to be doing Meredith
Speaker 1: Viera together.
Speaker 3: Yes, because people don't know it's in this business, they
Speaker 3: do this thing called chemistry test, which is like musical
Speaker 3: chairs of auditioning. And so this one summer week weekend
Speaker 3: it was we all got brought into New York. At
Speaker 3: the time, my agent was told I was the only
Speaker 3: man up for the job because I had gone in
Speaker 3: and met with NBC. They liked me and they were like,
Speaker 3: we want to figure out something to do with him.
Speaker 3: So they tried me out on Meredith Show. And after
Speaker 3: the first appearance, they offered me more dates to come back,
Speaker 3: and so I had done like twelve appearances on her
Speaker 3: show prior to we got to this secret test. But
Speaker 3: you and I never worked together. They had you working
Speaker 3: with everybody else, they had me working with everybody else.
Speaker 3: We never worked together. But we did this secret test,
Speaker 3: and I'll never forget. You were like, well, why do
Speaker 3: I have to get there like three hours earlier than you?
Speaker 3: And I was like, I don't know. And you went
Speaker 3: there and they had you tested with another male entertainer.
Speaker 3: Text me and he was like, such and such entertainers there,
Speaker 3: but they not as good as you are on cameras,
Speaker 3: so you could be fine. And I got your text
Speaker 3: message and I text my agent. I said, this is
Speaker 3: his job, and she's like, what do you mean. I said,
Speaker 3: they know what I do, they know why I'm here,
Speaker 3: and they've misled us into believing that I was the
Speaker 3: only man testing for this show. Now they brought this
Speaker 3: other guy in at the eleventh hour. Somebody's called in
Speaker 3: a favor. I'm gonna go and do what I do,
Speaker 3: but this is somebody else's getting And that was the
Speaker 3: first time you and I actually got to work together.
Speaker 3: And it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: It was tons of fun, y'all. There is so much
Speaker 1: history here. I want to respect John's time, but I
Speaker 1: also want to respect everything that he is. But I'm
Speaker 1: going to go back to something that you said that
Speaker 1: is so important. When you were in college, you were
Speaker 1: talking about how you knew you wanted to be on TV,
Speaker 1: but someone told you you probably should also get into writing.
Speaker 1: What do you think would have happened had you been
Speaker 1: too arrogant or prideful to take their suggestion.
Speaker 3: I probably would have ended up like a lot of
Speaker 3: people that I know who started on the pathway to
Speaker 3: entertainment realized that it was tough, and you know, you
Speaker 3: start living life, you start making bills, you start making babies,
Speaker 3: you start families, and you have to support that financially.
Speaker 3: So a lot of people needed to take jobs to
Speaker 3: support their lifestyle, and that caused them to have to
Speaker 3: avoid their dream. And I was really blessed that the
Speaker 3: plan b writing open doors for me that I could
Speaker 3: not have fathomed for myself. I was able to create
Speaker 3: my own space. It was the quintessential example of when
Speaker 3: time and preparation meet. I was prepared for that moment,
Speaker 3: but the timing of the business was wide open, and
Speaker 3: I was someone who was able to make space. And
Speaker 3: so it's been great to see some of the people
Speaker 3: who now use social media and digital media to make
Speaker 3: space and they're having success and their bloggers and their
Speaker 3: YouTubers and they're you know, doing video content and stuff
Speaker 3: and cultivating an audience with it, because that's what I
Speaker 3: was able to do with the print medium at that time.
Speaker 3: And so I was able to be a full time
Speaker 3: writer for twelve years and it opened doors for me.
Speaker 3: So I was maybe four or five years into my
Speaker 3: writing career when one day I got a call from
Speaker 3: an executive named Sheila Eldert who said, Hey, the Tom
Speaker 3: Jorder Morning Show is interested in adding a younger voice
Speaker 3: to their show. They like to test you out, and
Speaker 3: so they booked me for a one off segment. I
Speaker 3: did the segment the same day they made me an
Speaker 3: offer to join the show. So I was aoll block
Speaker 3: Voices for seven years. Six of those years I also
Speaker 3: was on the time during the morning show. So I
Speaker 3: had this rock star media life. One hundred thousand frequent
Speaker 3: five miles a year, five Star hotels, flyinding to La
Speaker 3: taking the anitrak to New York to interview top music
Speaker 3: stars and top Hollywood stars because the industry respected my
Speaker 3: platform and my voice. And one of the graces that
Speaker 3: God gave me early into this thing was I could
Speaker 3: sit with a celebrity they have done twenty five interviews
Speaker 3: that day, and I would sit and have a conversation
Speaker 3: with them. And the biggest compliment to give a media professionalist,
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's such a great question. Nobody's ever
Speaker 3: asked me that before. If I know, you know, I've
Speaker 3: done thirty interviews today as a part of some press
Speaker 3: junket and you say that to me, I've just gotten
Speaker 3: off like I'm my ego is just like yes. But
Speaker 3: at the end of these interviews, celebrities will say to me,
Speaker 3: there's just something about you. You're different than the regular
Speaker 3: industry guy. Can I give you my information and listen?
Speaker 3: You know, I'm in my forties now, so like I remember,
Speaker 3: there was a time where you go out with a
Speaker 3: music artist and they'd be like, yo, I got to
Speaker 3: hang out with you, or can I call you for advice?
Speaker 3: Sometimes I'm thinking you got Grammys and you calling me
Speaker 3: for advice, And they would say, here's my two way
Speaker 3: page number, it changes every sixty days. If it changes,
Speaker 3: called my Mama's house line, and the cod word is Gertrude.
Speaker 3: If you say gert true, She'll give you my new
Speaker 3: number and then I'll make sure I hit you back. Well,
Speaker 3: it was I remember like and I was nineteen twenty
Speaker 3: years old hanging out with these bold face named superstars
Speaker 3: just because we'd have an authentic connection through conversation. So
Speaker 3: it was a crazy time in my life. But I
Speaker 3: never tried to dishonor those relationships, and again those relationships
Speaker 3: continue to serve me to this present day.
Speaker 1: That's so good because you have a genuine passion for
Speaker 1: all things entertainment, broadway, film, television, music, everything as it
Speaker 1: relates to the art.
Speaker 2: You have a genuine passion versus I don't know if.
Speaker 1: It's because social media or what it is. It makes
Speaker 1: me scary about people's true intentions.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, And I got into this business because
Speaker 3: I love the business. Listen. I was a latchkey kid,
Speaker 3: you know. As a teenager, we lived in a two
Speaker 3: bedroom apartment. My mother worked, her husband worked because her
Speaker 3: husband with my daddy, and so I had to let
Speaker 3: my hope in after school and talk shows with my babysitters.
Speaker 3: Ricky Lakeer was my babysitter, Orlanda Watch was my babysitter.
Speaker 3: Mantel Williams was my babysitter. Sally Jesse, Roelfaia, all those hosts.
Speaker 3: It was my babysitters. And I fell in love with
Speaker 3: this format. I fell in love with television. I fell
Speaker 3: in love with the escapism that TV provided, you know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. I had that even as a pretty team.
Speaker 3: I had an aunt that used to babysat me, and
Speaker 3: when she was babysit me, she loved to watch the
Speaker 3: vintage talk show. So she would watch repeats of I
Speaker 3: Love Lucy and leave It to bab And I love
Speaker 3: the comedic storytelling of I Love Lucy. And my favorite
Speaker 3: iteration of that show is when Ricky went to Hollywood.
Speaker 3: And so I always had these visions and fantasies of
Speaker 3: getting to LA because I wanted to do what Ricky
Speaker 3: and Lucy did on those episodes. And you know, so
Speaker 3: as kids were impressionable, you know, these are the foundations
Speaker 3: that are stat and so I had a clear vision
Speaker 3: that I wanted to get into this business. And then
Speaker 3: once you started a business, I came in this business
Speaker 3: and I was just a black entertainment journalist. I could
Speaker 3: tell you what was going on with black celebrities and
Speaker 3: music in Hollywood and that was it. But I realized
Speaker 3: in order to have greater successor you had to be broader,
Speaker 3: and I'll never get two thousand and eight, I was
Speaker 3: on the time during the morning show my AOL column
Speaker 3: is Thriving. Star Jones had a talk show on Core TV,
Speaker 3: and she called me and told me, she says, I
Speaker 3: really want you to come and do my show, and
Speaker 3: you know, start war her where She's like, baby, you know,
Speaker 3: I know you got this black stuff down on lock,
Speaker 3: but I need you to be broader than that. So
Speaker 3: I'm having you come on here talk about Britney Spears
Speaker 3: and a few people, because you know you're an expert
Speaker 3: on them too. And it stretched me. It requires that
Speaker 3: I had to work a little bit. And the truth
Speaker 3: of the matter is the storytelling was still the same
Speaker 3: I you know, I always brought with and I tried
Speaker 3: to bring a comedic aspect to my storytelling. That was
Speaker 3: still the same. But if it requires that I did
Speaker 3: a little research, which mean I always had to be
Speaker 3: well read and I always had to study before I
Speaker 3: showed up to do a segment. And so, you know,
Speaker 3: just being prepared, doing your research and having an appreci
Speaker 3: ciation for every facet of the business really makes you
Speaker 3: a well rounded talent because the business changes. You know,
Speaker 3: I made a real joke about how our celebrity would
Speaker 3: give me their two way pager number. We don't have
Speaker 3: two way pages anymore, you know what I'm saying. Vinyls
Speaker 3: having a resurgence, but it went on a style for
Speaker 3: a while. All of us used to have CD collections.
Speaker 3: We don't know CDs anymore. This industry changes and genres change,
Speaker 3: and we used to have just linear television and it
Speaker 3: would get twenty million viewers on a TV show and
Speaker 3: now we have streaming networks. And so you have to
Speaker 3: be versatile enough to be in the pivot because if
Speaker 3: the sector of the business that you're working in goes
Speaker 3: out of style, what do you do next? If you're
Speaker 3: not well read.
Speaker 2: That's so good preparation.
Speaker 1: And we've both been in this for so long and
Speaker 1: having to be flexible and navigate even through being prepared,
Speaker 1: and y'all, it's been so much fun watching John throughout.
Speaker 2: The years on CNN. Heck, the BBC Meani.
Speaker 1: There are times he would have to be ready at
Speaker 1: all times of.
Speaker 3: The O in the morning, absolutely and.
Speaker 1: Or night to talk about even some of the biggest
Speaker 1: stars to ever be on our planet, like Michael Jackson.
Speaker 2: So much stuff that has.
Speaker 1: Happened, but you've handled even some of the most scandalous stories.
Speaker 1: You would insert a joke here or there, and you
Speaker 1: never I guess you weren't the guy that was gonna
Speaker 1: come even if you had the tea.
Speaker 2: It's how you shared it, especially if it was true.
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, one of my benchmarks as a journalist
Speaker 3: was you're not empowered by the stories you tell. You're
Speaker 3: empowered by the secrets you keep. And so for me
Speaker 3: it was always the long game. There are countless examples
Speaker 3: of people who had a big scoop or big exclusive
Speaker 3: and they knew it would get them huge traffic. But
Speaker 3: then they walk into a room at a party and
Speaker 3: nobody wants to talk about them, talk around them, or
Speaker 3: once they'm there, because they don't feel safe. There's nothing
Speaker 3: sacred about their presence. You know, this space now has
Speaker 3: been co opted by somebody who might see something. Then
Speaker 3: they gonna go say something. You know, for me, when
Speaker 3: I was on and I was working. I'd identify that
Speaker 3: I was working. If I sat down with you with
Speaker 3: a recorder in front of you, I'm working. When we
Speaker 3: turned the recorder off, we talked human to human and
Speaker 3: that was one of my gifts. And so I remember
Speaker 3: there were a couple of the bloggers who started out
Speaker 3: in the business and they would reach out to me
Speaker 3: for advice. And because when I started doing entertainment news,
Speaker 3: there really wasn't any black men in the space. There
Speaker 3: were some women and some folks who would come and
Speaker 3: were thriving. You know, when I was a last key
Speaker 3: kid as a teenager watching TV, I remember seeing Tanya
Speaker 3: Heart on. You know a lot of the talk shows
Speaker 3: would have entertainment experts. On Friday, it'd be Tanya Heart, Flow, Anthony,
Speaker 3: and every now and then you'd see Jamie Foster Brown
Speaker 3: from Sister to Sister, and those were like the three
Speaker 3: African American people that I would see on television. And
Speaker 3: when I started in the business, both Tanya and Flow
Speaker 3: were exceptionally welcoming to me and kind to me and
Speaker 3: offered me advice on how to you know, just to
Speaker 3: break through, you know what I'm saying, and so Both
Speaker 3: of those are ladies who also had great relationships. Flow
Speaker 3: is somebody who was very close with the Jackson She
Speaker 3: considers LaToya Jackson one of her best friends. I one
Speaker 3: time walked in the barber Flow Anthony and Lena Richie
Speaker 3: jumped up, and you would have thought it was Queen Elizabeth.
Speaker 3: How excited he was to see her based on their relationships.
Speaker 3: And Tanya Heart as a woman who opened up BET's
Speaker 3: West Coast bureau, you know, she, you know, had gave
Speaker 3: Tupac Shakur his first mainstream interview and the documentaries and
Speaker 3: stuff that you see now when you see this pretty
Speaker 3: light skinned ladies sitting down having a conversation with Tupac,
Speaker 3: that's Tanya. People who have relationships, you know, they have
Speaker 3: celebrity friends, and then they have friends that happen to
Speaker 3: be celebrities, And so I looked at them, and the
Speaker 3: other lesson that I learned early on is that networking
Speaker 3: will take you further than your skills and ability. Ever.
Speaker 3: Can we all know talented people all over this country
Speaker 3: sitting at home wishing that somebody would take them off
Speaker 3: the sidelines and put them in the game. And the
Speaker 3: truth of the matter is they haven't fostered the type
Speaker 3: of relationships to give them the access to be able
Speaker 3: to showcase what they're actually able to do. And so
Speaker 3: learning to network early on and then moving with an
Speaker 3: integrity by being able to understand as a professional, I
Speaker 3: can get what I get and I can tell a
Speaker 3: really good story when I was a journalist without having
Speaker 3: to violate your trust, without having to disrespect you, without
Speaker 3: having to shame you, you know. And so I was
Speaker 3: able to do that and again now in the second
Speaker 3: act of my life, you know, because before I became
Speaker 3: Shrey's executive producer, you know, you mentioned some of the
Speaker 3: TV stuff that I did. I think I walked away
Speaker 3: from the writing part of my career and really just
Speaker 3: focused on the on camera stuff. And so this was
Speaker 3: the next iteration, you know, being able to be one
Speaker 3: of the bosses behind the scene and go on to
Speaker 3: this journey with Sherry and some of the same relationships
Speaker 3: from the beginning of my career. I can call those
Speaker 3: same celebrities if a publicist is blocking them from coming
Speaker 3: on the show or they want to send them to
Speaker 3: one of the competition show, I can pick up the
Speaker 3: phone and say, remember in twenty twenty seven, man, I'm
Speaker 3: sorry when two thousand and seven when you told me
Speaker 3: if I ever needed anything to call you, I'm calling
Speaker 3: in my favor and you can't call in favors and
Speaker 3: if you aren't good to people in the early phases
Speaker 3: of those relationships.
Speaker 1: Y'all, y'all want to talk about secrets. John is so correct.
Speaker 1: Weren't you on the phone when I was going through
Speaker 1: a breakup?
Speaker 3: Yes, I try not to ever talk about that because
Speaker 3: it was but that was on one day. I wish
Speaker 3: there was a camera in your house because I felt
Speaker 3: like if there was a camera in your house recorded you,
Speaker 3: it was like there was perfect audition tape for like
Speaker 3: if they ever did like the movie version of Snaps,
Speaker 3: or or if Tyler.
Speaker 5: Perry won remember the role Tasha smith Lane when she
Speaker 5: was the evil mother girlfriend going nuts on it just
Speaker 5: Elba and that movie.
Speaker 3: There was a side of you I had never seen
Speaker 3: on that phone, And I said, if she was recording this,
Speaker 3: this is the audition tape. She ever means free.
Speaker 2: And it's rare. It is rare, But don't play in
Speaker 2: my face. I'm trying to figure out.
Speaker 1: What I literally got on the phone, and I called
Speaker 1: John because I think I was in such disbelief. Maybe
Speaker 1: it was just the audacity of this individual. I can't recall,
Speaker 1: but I just remember every now and then we talk
Speaker 1: about that. But y'all, this is because of years of
Speaker 1: relationship has been cultivated. He has shown me that I
Speaker 1: can trust him and vice versa.
Speaker 2: So I'm just thankful to.
Speaker 1: Have somebody like that when I was going through managerial
Speaker 1: transitions and everything, not knowing who can can I tell
Speaker 1: this to?
Speaker 2: What can I do?
Speaker 1: John Murray walked me through that. He's walked me through
Speaker 1: so much, which leads me to the fact that you've
Speaker 1: talked about the safety and the relationships that you.
Speaker 2: Have with people. And I'm excited. We're going to get
Speaker 2: to Sherry Shepherd.
Speaker 1: In a moment, but talk about the fact that you
Speaker 1: have been a coach as well to a lot of
Speaker 1: talent on how to be on television or if something
Speaker 1: comes out on them, you show them how to navigate
Speaker 1: trouble or what could possibly be career ending.
Speaker 3: Yeah. One of the things listen, as a writer, you
Speaker 3: learned early on you need multiple strings of income. And
Speaker 3: so I was having a level of success, but I
Speaker 3: want a greater success, and so one of the things
Speaker 3: that I started doing was media training and artists development.
Speaker 3: And so what most people don't know is, and you
Speaker 3: hear about it when you hear about the glory days
Speaker 3: of Motown or the golden years of Hollywood, how the
Speaker 3: studios will prepare the stars on being stars, or how
Speaker 3: the record companies would prepare the artists on how to
Speaker 3: present themselves and how to talk to the public. And
Speaker 3: so it went away for a long time, but there
Speaker 3: were several record companies that started to reinvest in their
Speaker 3: artists and shout out to Karen Jackson, who at the
Speaker 3: time was an EMI and then Motown. She was somebody
Speaker 3: who really saw the need to work on some of
Speaker 3: her artists, and so they became a major client of mine.
Speaker 3: And on the faith based side, I started to help
Speaker 3: artists like Kiara Sheard and Tasha Cobbs and Forever Jones
Speaker 3: before Doe broke out to become a solo singer, and
Speaker 3: I was working with jazz artists and R and B artists,
Speaker 3: and then I had a whole crew of Hollywood stars
Speaker 3: that would not do major media appearances without begetting them together.
Speaker 3: And so Sherry Sheppard was a friend of mine and
Speaker 3: also a client and so like the we met at
Speaker 3: Doctor Bobby Jones. Funny enough, I used to do a
Speaker 3: artists in the Treatment Price a year in Las Vegas,
Speaker 3: and Sherry was a big reader of my column. She
Speaker 3: came up to me in the hallway one day. It
Speaker 3: was like, Hey, I know you don't know who I am,
Speaker 3: but I'm a big fan of your work. And I
Speaker 3: was like, oh, you're the little black actress on all
Speaker 3: the big white sitcoms. Of course I know you. And
Speaker 3: we became friends.
Speaker 1: John and John really, John really will say that like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that line, go ahead, and she laughed.
Speaker 3: And we had changed information and we became friends. And
Speaker 3: so whenever Shery would do appearances when she was co
Speaker 3: hosting the View, sometimes whenever topics and stuff she wanted
Speaker 3: to work through, she'd bring me on to help her
Speaker 3: figure that out. If she had to go do a
Speaker 3: promo run for a movie project or something, she'd have
Speaker 3: me come and help her finessial sound bites and stuff.
Speaker 3: And so what I did not realize then was that
Speaker 3: it really was setting me up for my life as
Speaker 3: a producer. It was now it was teaching me how
Speaker 3: to get the best out of people. It was teaching
Speaker 3: me how to connect with people so that they could
Speaker 3: be their best And so when I was so prior
Speaker 3: to this executive producer run with Sherry, I had done
Speaker 3: a bunch of consulting, producing for some awards shows and
Speaker 3: some specials. I had both produced and directed some episodes
Speaker 3: TV ones Uncensored. But the executive producer role is you're
Speaker 3: the boss. You know, you hire your fire, you have
Speaker 3: one of the final says on creative. You're leading the team.
Speaker 3: And so there were people when Sherry said I will
Speaker 3: only go on this journey with John that was looking
Speaker 3: like how did he get the leap fro of all
Speaker 3: those people? And you know, how is he in this position?
Speaker 3: And the truth of the matter is the late great
Speaker 3: Bill Getty, who helps create the view with Barbara Walters,
Speaker 3: he helps mentor me through this process of going on
Speaker 3: this executive producer journey along with Twitch. He was at Ellen,
Speaker 3: along with Heather Gray who was at the Talk, and
Speaker 3: along with my dear friend Kat mackenzie who's at GMA three.
Speaker 3: But Bill says something to me, He said, John, Throughout
Speaker 3: the course of my career, I've seen celebrities give their
Speaker 3: hairdressers executive producer credits their Dog Walkers executive producer credits.
Speaker 3: He said sometimes crazy celebrities would sometimes want to give
Speaker 3: people EP credits just to put money in their pockets
Speaker 3: so they wouldn't have to pay them their salary directly.
Speaker 3: He said, But you have a superpower here. There's nobody
Speaker 3: who knows Sherry as good as you do. There's nobody
Speaker 3: who's going to get the performance out of her the
Speaker 3: way that you will because of that relationship. And you,
Speaker 3: guys are going into a situation where people who need
Speaker 3: to learn her and you're almost like the Sherry whisperer.
Speaker 3: He says, that's an invaluable asset. So he said, despite
Speaker 3: the fact that you know this genre, despite the fact
Speaker 3: that you're great with people, you're going to be a
Speaker 3: great leader, and you're really going to help produce this
Speaker 3: wonderful content. If they were just paying you for the
Speaker 3: relationship alone, he said, it's worth every time. And it
Speaker 3: really shifted my perspective walking into this space, and it
Speaker 3: prepared me for a lot of what I was going
Speaker 3: to encounter as we were embarking on the journey of
Speaker 3: the Sherry Ship.
Speaker 1: So so good, and you have been walking with Sherry
Speaker 1: Shepherd for a number of years in a four way
Speaker 1: to some of the shows.
Speaker 2: She was a call host.
Speaker 3: On The View.
Speaker 1: Well, and now you two she if I'm not mistaken,
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. I think she made a
Speaker 1: promise like John, when I get my talk show, you're
Speaker 1: coming with me.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So you know, Shary I had a very unique
Speaker 3: relationship because when Cherry was approached to join The View,
Speaker 3: she had agents, she had managers and all that stuff.
Speaker 3: She said she was praying and she asked, God, I
Speaker 3: want to talk to somebody who's not on my payroll,
Speaker 3: and I really want to get objective advice from them.
Speaker 3: And literally, I was in Chicago. I was doing a
Speaker 3: speech at Burrell Communications. I was out shopping, walking down
Speaker 3: Michigan Avenue. Phone rings and Sherry I answer it, and
Speaker 3: she told me about her offer to join the View
Speaker 3: and we talked about it, and that particular year it
Speaker 3: didn't happen because they brought Rosie O'Donnell on the show
Speaker 3: and they didn't want to add a second co host.
Speaker 3: Fast forward about eight months later, Sherry started guest co
Speaker 3: hosting on the View again. The whole Rosie and Elizabeth
Speaker 3: blow up happens, and then all of a sudden, they're
Speaker 3: looking to bring Sherry on the show again as a
Speaker 3: permanent co host well her team at the time. The
Speaker 3: negotiations didn't go very well and ABC took their offer
Speaker 3: back from her, and Sherry called me and she cried,
Speaker 3: she's really upset, and I coached her on how I
Speaker 3: thought she could resurrect the deal. I basically told her,
Speaker 3: I need you to call Bill Gaddy. I need you
Speaker 3: to share his heart, your heart with him and tell
Speaker 3: him why the financials the mathe' mathing. And so she
Speaker 3: did exactly as I said. Bill Gatty told her, if
Speaker 3: you take this deal, the rest of the money's going
Speaker 3: to come, and she said, those were the exact words
Speaker 3: I had said to her, So it was almost like
Speaker 3: God was using him to confirm what I said. The
Speaker 3: deal happened, and the rest is history, and Sherry's never
Speaker 3: made another major decision in the entertainment industry again without
Speaker 3: talking to me. So that set the foundation of our relationship.
Speaker 3: When she went into guest hosts for The Wendy Williams
Speaker 3: initially in twenty and nineteen, Cherry said, Hey, can you
Speaker 3: come in and help me in addition to you just
Speaker 3: helping produce me, and my approach to the questions, I
Speaker 3: want you to come and help write the show, helped
Speaker 3: me structure the show, and so I came in. I
Speaker 3: helped write her monologue for the top of show, you know,
Speaker 3: helped her with the guests and things like that. What
Speaker 3: most people don't know is this particular company had offered
Speaker 3: Cherry a deal in two thousand and nineteen to embark
Speaker 3: on a talk show journey, and things didn't work out.
Speaker 3: The pandemic didn't happen, and so twenty twenty one, Sherry
Speaker 3: happened to be in New York City. She was filling
Speaker 3: in at the View that week for somebody who was
Speaker 3: out all week, and she got a call to come
Speaker 3: in and fill in for Wendy again. This was the
Speaker 3: season which Wendy didn't have. Everybody was guest hosting that
Speaker 3: particular season, and Sherry called and said, do I really
Speaker 3: want to do this? This is something I should do.
Speaker 3: And I said to her, Well, don't look at it
Speaker 3: like you're going back to co host this time. How
Speaker 3: about go in and do a five day pilot shore America.
Speaker 3: What the Sherry Shepherd Show would look like. You've been
Speaker 3: taking all these meetings people are uncertain about the market.
Speaker 3: They want panel shows. Let's show them that you can
Speaker 3: do a single host show and that you can own
Speaker 3: this space. And she said, well, I'll only do it
Speaker 3: if you come and do it with me again. I
Speaker 3: came in five shows. I helped her write the shows,
Speaker 3: you know, and it was a tough time. We're coming
Speaker 3: out of the pandemic. There are all these testing and protocols,
Speaker 3: and we had to sit in the hotel for hours
Speaker 3: and build out this show. And we helped her hand
Speaker 3: pick each of the guests and the segment that she did.
Speaker 3: And by the end of the first week, the ratings
Speaker 3: were through the roof. The research was great, and everybody
Speaker 3: was saying, this should be the Sherry Show. And so
Speaker 3: Sherry came to me and said, I know you're talking
Speaker 3: to one of the news agencies about coming on as
Speaker 3: a contributor. I know you're off for another cable show,
Speaker 3: and I know this big company's talking to you about
Speaker 3: a podcast. What would it take for you to walk
Speaker 3: away from everything that you have going on to come
Speaker 3: on this journey with me? And I said, well, I
Speaker 3: got to pray about it first, and so I came
Speaker 3: back to her the next day and I said, listen,
Speaker 3: come on this journey with you. If I at this title,
Speaker 3: if I have these responsibilities, and if they pay me
Speaker 3: my money. And she said, cool, I won't have a
Speaker 3: deal unless you have a deal. And Sherry called our
Speaker 3: team and said, listen, until John's dealer is done, don't
Speaker 3: send me a contract. And she also had an offer
Speaker 3: so she could either do a sitcom or she could
Speaker 3: do a talk show. Shit options. And she said, I'm
Speaker 3: only doing the talk show and John is a part
Speaker 3: of it. She says, because I serve it up. This
Speaker 3: is his vision. He's the one who made it look good.
Speaker 3: And so my deal was fin only done. And you know,
Speaker 3: it's been an interesting journey. I wouldn't have I wouldn't
Speaker 3: necessarily walked away from as much as I had going
Speaker 3: on to do this with anybody else. But in hindsight,
Speaker 3: it's really been a blessing. And I think it's a
Speaker 3: blessing because this whole opportunity has been ordained by God.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, was it tough to have that conversation with Shrey
Speaker 1: because she's your friend, Like that was a tough conversation,
Speaker 1: Like Sharry, I'll come, but I gotta have this title.
Speaker 2: I gotta get paid. This mine, I gotta do this.
Speaker 1: Like you're always good at having tough conversations.
Speaker 3: You weren't nervous, you know what. I think maybe ten
Speaker 3: years ago would have been nervous. Maybe six years ago
Speaker 3: i'd have been nervous. Let me say the mind space
Speaker 3: I was in in twenty twenty one when we had
Speaker 3: this conversation, I would never faced as much rejection as
Speaker 3: I had in my life until I walked away from
Speaker 3: being a writer in a radio personality to live my
Speaker 3: dreams in television. The truth of the matter is, and
Speaker 3: I'm not speaking out of the turn, It's widely reported
Speaker 3: and times Up and moments like that have really kind
Speaker 3: of shown that the television business and entertainment and hole
Speaker 3: is still really controlled by a bunch of very old
Speaker 3: white men, and sometimes people of color and diverse people
Speaker 3: aren't always the flavors of the month. And so I
Speaker 3: went through a phase where I would go in and
Speaker 3: meet with the executives and they like, you're amazing, You're
Speaker 3: so great, but you're broad and I don't know what
Speaker 3: to do with you. Why I'm broad because I wouldn't
Speaker 3: study broadcasting, and so doing me what you did with
Speaker 3: Tom burg Rock or doing me what you did with
Speaker 3: Regis filming, or do with me what you did with
Speaker 3: my white count of parts that seemed to get all
Speaker 3: the jobs. And during this particular phase when I'd have
Speaker 3: these meetings and stuff, it felt like only black NFL
Speaker 3: players and black comedians were getting the jobs, and so
Speaker 3: it was a tough place to come down to me
Speaker 3: and somebody else. And then the one they caught the
Speaker 3: football got the gig, or they say we're looking for
Speaker 3: Michael Strahan type, then they just hire Michael Strahan. And
Speaker 3: the one time I met him, I was like, can
Speaker 3: you stop taking every job so somebody else can work?
Speaker 3: And he laughed. And so all that was going on,
Speaker 3: and then the pandemic hit and nobody was working, and
Speaker 3: I really took the pandemic and did some self work.
Speaker 3: I really tried to empower myself and better myself and
Speaker 3: really connecting with people who were enriching and encouraging, and
Speaker 3: somebody who was so pivotal and keeping me in carriage
Speaker 3: doing that season my life with somebody you've had on
Speaker 3: the show. Doctor J Barnett just a good brother and
Speaker 3: has a really great gift of being able to pour
Speaker 3: into people right in the time that they needed. And
Speaker 3: so by the time twenty twenty one came around, I
Speaker 3: had heard Robin Roberts do an interview where she said
Speaker 3: optimism is a muscle that gets stronger put the practice,
Speaker 3: and something about her saying that shifted me, because they say,
Speaker 3: if you do something for twenty eight days, it becomes
Speaker 3: normal for you. And so I decided I'm going to
Speaker 3: try twenty days of optimism because I want to make
Speaker 3: that my new norm. And so literally, every day, starting
Speaker 3: in May of twenty twenty one, I woke up with
Speaker 3: this blind anticipation that some good news was coming my way.
Speaker 3: I woke up every day just I would pick up
Speaker 3: my phone to see if it was a text message
Speaker 3: or an email. I would check out voicemail to see
Speaker 3: if it was a job offer. I believe that something
Speaker 3: good was coming in my way, coming my way. And
Speaker 3: the first few days it was silly. I'd wake up
Speaker 3: with this smile on my face. Yeah, I go looking
Speaker 3: for these messages. But I did it until it became comfortable.
Speaker 3: It became my norm. And so by the time Sherry
Speaker 3: and I are having this conversation, which is November of
Speaker 3: this year, there have been so many great things that
Speaker 3: had happened that summer leading up until this point, and
Speaker 3: so I was so confident and what God was about
Speaker 3: to do in my life and what I was manifesting
Speaker 3: by my own goodwill and my own optimism, that I
Speaker 3: was so comfortable having this conversation because I knew I
Speaker 3: had options and if I was going to go on
Speaker 3: a journey that I knew wasn't gonna be comfortable for me,
Speaker 3: that I was walking with some people that didn't want
Speaker 3: me to be there, and that I was gonna have
Speaker 3: to catch the bullets that Cherry would never see. That
Speaker 3: I needed to be able to do it with the
Speaker 3: cushions of knowing when I leave here, I have this title,
Speaker 3: my bank account, I have this amount of money, and
Speaker 3: all the other elements will work together, because I need
Speaker 3: to have those things to make up for what I'm
Speaker 3: losing in some mental mind space. Because it's a lot
Speaker 3: that you take on and go on a journey like this.
Speaker 1: You know, John, you just gave somebody here something that
Speaker 1: they probably need to do. For twenty eight days, they've
Speaker 1: been trying to figure out, what is this secret to
Speaker 1: my success? How am I gonna make this transition, How
Speaker 1: is this dream gonna come true? But maybe sometimes our mindset,
Speaker 1: maybe we wake up being negative, we have negative conversations,
Speaker 1: We're surrounding ourselves with negative people, and maybe, just like
Speaker 1: you said, waking up being opt a mystic. Come on,
Speaker 1: Sounds of Blackness sings the song Honey be Up.
Speaker 3: They save the blueprint and really we You know, there
Speaker 3: was a time on the Opera show where they were
Speaker 3: talking about the secret, and the secret dealt with manifestation.
Speaker 3: You know, if you were in the Pentecostal church, they
Speaker 3: would say, name it and claim it. Everybody has an iteration,
Speaker 3: you know, of what you put out is what you
Speaker 3: get back. And I put out the anticipation that there
Speaker 3: was a blessing coming my way, that the opportunity was
Speaker 3: coming my way. And if I would have stayed in
Speaker 3: the space of well, I'm about to go ahead and
Speaker 3: lose another job to another football player. Uh, it's coming
Speaker 3: down to me and somebody else used to be in
Speaker 3: a boy band. They're gonna choose him again, even though
Speaker 3: he can't talk that well. I would have become so
Speaker 3: cynical and so negative that I would not have been
Speaker 3: open to receive the blessing. That came in. I'm a
Speaker 3: great example of state of chorus, like, yes, my act
Speaker 3: one is a writer and as a radio personality. I
Speaker 3: was twenty five years old and I joined the number
Speaker 3: one and the first nationally syndicated black morning show to
Speaker 3: ever be successful with time join the morning show. For
Speaker 3: some people, that was the dream. For me, that was
Speaker 3: just cracking the surface because I knew that was just
Speaker 3: one more step and what I wanted to do, you know,
Speaker 3: And when I started taking my TV meetings and stuff,
Speaker 3: I have to tell people all the time. You know,
Speaker 3: you meet with these executives. I don't care how long
Speaker 3: your resume is and how much you've done. They've never
Speaker 3: heard of you before. And you go in and you
Speaker 3: have to sell yourself to them.
Speaker 2: And so, by the way, what is our good friend
Speaker 2: Isaac say? Never heard of them?
Speaker 3: Never heard of them. But I go on to meet
Speaker 3: with these executives, the ainy't say, so, tell me about yourself,
Speaker 3: And I was like, I want to be the black
Speaker 3: Regis Fielman, And they go, oh, because they could understand that.
Speaker 3: I feel like I want to be the black Tom
Speaker 3: brgul Round. I love his versatility. Oh but what I
Speaker 3: didn't know then that I know now is being the
Speaker 3: Black Regions Filming would have been fun and I could
Speaker 3: have done it and made a whole lot of money.
Speaker 3: It is so much rewarding being the black Michael Gelman
Speaker 3: Michael Gelman is the executive producer who produced the show
Speaker 3: that Regis was and he's sometimes on camera and so
Speaker 3: you see him enough that you recognize him and you
Speaker 3: know him. But he has the power to be able
Speaker 3: to take people off the bench and put them in
Speaker 3: the game. And there have been some folks that I
Speaker 3: used to test against for shows, or I've seen them work.
Speaker 3: I respect their work, and all of a sudden we're
Speaker 3: launching some new franchise, I'm like, you know what, you'd
Speaker 3: be good for that? And then having the ability to
Speaker 3: take some correspondent or some hosts or somebody who I
Speaker 3: know only needs an opportunity and knows somebody who sees
Speaker 3: them for the value that they bring and give them
Speaker 3: an opportunity and they have that looking at how like
Speaker 3: thank you like I used to when somebody gave me
Speaker 3: an opportunity.
Speaker 1: Best feeling in the world, John, not only I believe
Speaker 1: was it your optimism that landed you the role of
Speaker 1: being the executive producer of one of the most refreshing
Speaker 1: daytime talk shows, which is The Sherry Shepherd Show.
Speaker 2: But I believe it was the seed so prior.
Speaker 1: Like you said, for telling me and the host of others, Hey,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be some opening slots coming on. Make sure
Speaker 1: you get your management and your agent, you know, make
Speaker 1: sure you know you know about it. And sure enough
Speaker 1: John what lie and he knew what he was talking about,
Speaker 1: and so I believe it was that too. I also
Speaker 1: believe just how you treat people matter so much. If
Speaker 1: y'all don't take anything away from this conversation too, how
Speaker 1: you treat people along the way can determine your future.
Speaker 1: So I am not dismissing the optimism that you did
Speaker 1: for the learning of Days, but I think it was
Speaker 1: so much that you did along the way. I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask about diversity. You kind of touched on it
Speaker 1: a little bit, and then, as they say, I won't
Speaker 1: keep your bear, I.
Speaker 2: Won't hold you much longer.
Speaker 1: But I'm just excited to see I mean, hey, we
Speaker 1: looked at the Emmys, how many of us were up
Speaker 1: winning holding that trophy, which gives me so much hope.
Speaker 1: But you probably you know a little bit more on
Speaker 1: the inside or the algorithm of what's going on on
Speaker 1: the inside of black hosts, black executive producers. Do you
Speaker 1: think it's getting better in that area of diversity?
Speaker 3: You know, in front of the camera, it's been It's
Speaker 3: been better for a long time. Hollywood still has a
Speaker 3: pay inequity when it comes to people of color and
Speaker 3: our white counterparts, and that's something that I think everybody's
Speaker 3: working to eradicate. We've seen Taraji be very vocal recently about,
Speaker 3: you know, the pay disparity between her and some of
Speaker 3: her white actress counterparts, O Tavia Spencer, Biblea Davis, They've
Speaker 3: all talked about it. But I do think the ability
Speaker 3: to work. I mean, listen, there was a time where
Speaker 3: h in black Hollywood in particular, the only roles you
Speaker 3: could get were in Tyler Perry movies and TV shows
Speaker 3: because being black was not the flavor of the month
Speaker 3: in Tintotown. They didn't see the value in us. And
Speaker 3: so but then you know, shortly thereafter you have Shonda
Speaker 3: Rhimes who emerged and with Scandal, and Kerry Washington and
Speaker 3: How to Get Away Work Murder, and Viola Davis and
Speaker 3: all of this diversity started to come back, and in
Speaker 3: the hosting space, black women have had it really, really
Speaker 3: good for quite a while. I mean, at one point
Speaker 3: there were almost like ten black female holes on TVs,
Speaker 3: whether panels or solo shows or even some of the
Speaker 3: news shows. If you look at two of this most
Speaker 3: successful morning anchors, you have Robin Roberts and you have
Speaker 3: Gail King and I'm not sure exactly holding a copy's
Speaker 3: nationality breakdown, but she's a woman of color. And so
Speaker 3: diversity has been particularly good for the women. It's been
Speaker 3: a little slower for the brothers.
Speaker 2: Black men.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the opportunities have been a little slow. And I
Speaker 3: think part of the reason why I'm grateful for Cherry
Speaker 3: is that that very few black men have rose to
Speaker 3: the level of executive producer at day time. There are
Speaker 3: lots of black women who've achieved this milestone, but black men,
Speaker 3: this isn't our norm. And so you know, you had
Speaker 3: Rashan McDonald who did it with Steve Harvey, you had
Speaker 3: Twitch who did it at Ellen, and there may have
Speaker 3: been a few others whose names I just don't know.
Speaker 3: But even when I talk to some of the journeymen
Speaker 3: and producing in this format. In particular, they can't name
Speaker 3: you a lot of black men to do this work,
Speaker 3: and so I didn't realize I was walking in such
Speaker 3: rare fied air until I got in this space and
Speaker 3: people began to connect with me. You know, I want
Speaker 3: this business to start to look more like our country,
Speaker 3: which is a very inclusive country. You know, jokingly, I
Speaker 3: tell people, but it's the truth. I never saw an
Speaker 3: episode of Friends because it was based in New York
Speaker 3: City and none of the Friends look like me, and
Speaker 3: anybody who's been to New York City on any street
Speaker 3: corner at any given time, it looks like the United
Speaker 3: Nations is having a session in this city because it's
Speaker 3: just such a diverse and inclusive city, and their studies
Speaker 3: and all type data that support that when projects and
Speaker 3: films and TV shows are very diverse, they just performed
Speaker 3: better with an overall audience. And the sooner the industry
Speaker 3: catches up with the stats of it all, I think
Speaker 3: they'll continue to have more success. You know. I think
Speaker 3: streaming has offered an alternative because a lot of these
Speaker 3: streaming apps have these series that are very diverse and inclusive,
Speaker 3: and people were looking for something that was a little
Speaker 3: more refreshing that also looked like them, And I'm hoping
Speaker 3: that we continue to make some milestones. And seeing the Emmys,
Speaker 3: you know, you had two agent actors who I think
Speaker 3: had historic wins. You had Quintin Brunson who won an
Speaker 3: inby in a category that had not been won since
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty one, when Isabelle Samford won for playing Weezy
Speaker 3: on The Jeffersons. It is twenty twenty four and someone
Speaker 3: had not won in the category that was a black
Speaker 3: woman of nineteen eighty one. So for all the progress
Speaker 3: we've made, there's still a lot to be done. And
Speaker 3: I'm hoping that I can just move the card of
Speaker 3: the heel a little more, that I can have an
Speaker 3: impact on that. You know, Yes, John and Michelle, let
Speaker 3: me say this to you. We were talking about versatility
Speaker 3: and stuff. There is nobody who's been more versatile than you.
Speaker 3: One of the things that I really respect about the
Speaker 3: Destiny's Child story is that each of you all have
Speaker 3: come out of this thing with your own lane. You know,
Speaker 3: the Supremes. Mary Wilson had a solid career, but many
Speaker 3: of the other women that came through the Supremes did
Speaker 3: not have the same level of success as either Mary
Speaker 3: or Diana Ross. And you know you decided you wanted
Speaker 3: to conquer theater. You know, wanted to get back to
Speaker 3: your roots and do gospel. But you have one of
Speaker 3: the best dance records. And I know I talked your
Speaker 3: head off about your dance records, but you have one
Speaker 3: of the best dance records that was right before its
Speaker 3: time because you did this dance record and all of
Speaker 3: a sudden, everybody else was dancing. And as an actor
Speaker 3: and as a TV host, I mean you hit multiple sectors.
Speaker 3: You're an invest and a WNBA team. You don't talk
Speaker 3: about your entrepreneur endeavors. And look what Kelly has done.
Speaker 3: You know, she went and conquered the international market. She
Speaker 3: too was one of the first a partner with the
Speaker 3: DJ and had one of those big euro smash records.
Speaker 3: And her acting and her work with brands, I mean,
Speaker 3: she's become one of the brands. Kelly always selling a
Speaker 3: dag On product is so it's bad. Well, it's something,
Speaker 3: you know, it's something. But seeing how you all have
Speaker 3: become all these multi hyphen its and you work a
Speaker 3: win and how you want to and only do projects
Speaker 3: that are rewarding and serve you well. It speaks to
Speaker 3: the choices and the versatility that each of you all
Speaker 3: have had too. So I couldn't have you talk about
Speaker 3: me being versatile. And I've had these multiple iterations with
Speaker 3: I'm putting the mirror on you and reflecting on the
Speaker 3: fact that you've done a dag on good job of
Speaker 3: doing it yourself.
Speaker 2: John, as our good friend, Tim says, my g that
Speaker 2: was so kind.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I said so many names because we just have so
Speaker 1: many mutual friends. This episode has been an absolute masterclass.
Speaker 3: John.
Speaker 1: I really hope you do something this year or next year.
Speaker 1: Just John Murray presents, I just sitting here listening to
Speaker 1: you is just give me so many memories. It's letting
Speaker 1: me know what persistence, being consistent, being nice, what being
Speaker 1: prepared and being optimistic what it can do. We are
Speaker 1: so excited about Sherry Shepherd's these upcoming season.
Speaker 2: You're in season what it.
Speaker 3: Is, our second season. We are at the halfway mark.
Speaker 3: You know, we'll be doing original episodes through like late
Speaker 3: May sometime early June, and you know, we got picked
Speaker 3: up for two seasons, so we'll be starting it all
Speaker 3: over again in season three and so I'm just grateful
Speaker 3: that people. I'll tell you this real quick. We had
Speaker 3: an eighty one year old woman come to the show.
Speaker 3: She's been going through a cancer procedure. She just finished
Speaker 3: her first round of it, was about to go through
Speaker 3: a second, and she said, I have my two daughters
Speaker 3: bring me to this show because I told them I
Speaker 3: need to experience this joy in person. And then we
Speaker 3: got another letter from a lady who gets chemotherapy on Monday,
Speaker 3: Wednesdays and Fridays, and she said she schedules her appointments
Speaker 3: around the airing of our show because while she's going
Speaker 3: through the worst thing in her life, we give her
Speaker 3: the escapism she needs. So I said in that Forbes
Speaker 3: article that recently came out on me that I feel
Speaker 3: like we're in the ministry of joy and laughter, that
Speaker 3: we're connecting and inspiring people and non traditional ministry. But
Speaker 3: to know that you're offering people something that not only
Speaker 3: just connects with them, makes them laugh and gives them
Speaker 3: an hour of escapism, but people are scheduling their medical
Speaker 3: appointments because you're serving their soul in the way they hadn't.
Speaker 3: It's the most rewarding thing and one of the greatest
Speaker 3: aspects of doing this work.
Speaker 2: That's so good.
Speaker 1: I would say, do you have any party words that
Speaker 1: you want to say to people? Because my podcast, you know,
Speaker 1: the foundation of it has been mental health and everything
Speaker 1: that you've said should definitely bright somebody's day. Even in
Speaker 1: the Forbes article, you share things about your father not
Speaker 1: being in your life, and you know.
Speaker 2: Things like that.
Speaker 1: But you're here and we're talking today. What do you
Speaker 1: have to share to people who might kind of be
Speaker 1: struggling a little bit today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, listen. If you've got dreams, goals and aspirations, I
Speaker 3: tell you to stay the course. TV host personality Bevy
Speaker 3: Smith has a phrase where she says, it gets greater
Speaker 3: later and so often, and particularly because of social media,
Speaker 3: we feel the pressures of having that microwave success you
Speaker 3: put in sixty seconds of voilat. But the truth of
Speaker 3: the matter is, and I stole this line from a
Speaker 3: comedian in Coco Brown, some of the best meals you
Speaker 3: can get they come out of a crockpot. And so
Speaker 3: they're these people who you they look like their overnight successes,
Speaker 3: but they've been putting in twenty years. You know you're
Speaker 3: taking you set that meat in your crack pip before
Speaker 3: you leave the office and let it cook for eight days.
Speaker 3: Now you come home and it's the most tender. There
Speaker 3: are a lot of things that I wanted to do
Speaker 3: early on in my career, and I can't tell you
Speaker 3: that I was mature enough or would have had the
Speaker 3: responsible nature of being able to sustain the financial benefits
Speaker 3: of this work. But now, as a man in my forties,
Speaker 3: I have to say I understand and appreciate every milestone
Speaker 3: of this journey. I understand the importance of this journey,
Speaker 3: and I appreciate the blessing of being able to walk
Speaker 3: in this elevated space now more than ever before. And
Speaker 3: so I tell everybody stay the course, work with integrity,
Speaker 3: and be kind to people. Anybody that tells you that
Speaker 3: you can't be a leader or you can't have success.
Speaker 3: And you also can't be kind to people as somebody
Speaker 3: who's lying or they're intentionally nasty just because. But I
Speaker 3: remember before the whole slat with Chris Rock, will Smith
Speaker 3: was one of the greatest Hollywood stars I'd ever encountered,
Speaker 3: because I don't care where I was, and when you
Speaker 3: saw him, he would go out of his way to
Speaker 3: speak to you. He would make you feel like you
Speaker 3: were the only person in the room. He would remember
Speaker 3: your name, and there was just something about him. And
Speaker 3: you don't have to be this successful and this kind,
Speaker 3: and yet he was. And so I said that to
Speaker 3: say that you can have a level of success. You
Speaker 3: can reach your goals and your dreams and your beliefs
Speaker 3: and thriving business, and you can also be nice to people.
Speaker 3: I promise you it's easier to be nice to most people,
Speaker 3: not as I said, most people, right, most people.
Speaker 2: You did say that it's easy, got easy to be nice.
Speaker 1: We should be kind to all people, but it's easier
Speaker 1: to be nice to most.
Speaker 3: And if you don't know how to be nice, and
Speaker 3: you apply to that twenty eight day having rule that
Speaker 3: I told you, well, you practice being nice for twenty
Speaker 3: eight days, so that can become your new normal. Come
Speaker 3: on to somebody.
Speaker 2: You talking right, y'all? He said, and did he has said.
Speaker 1: So this whole episode deserves its own praise break John,
Speaker 1: Thank you for checking in.
Speaker 3: It's my pleasure anytime you need me to check it
Speaker 3: in the fouture.
Speaker 2: I'm here for you, all right, my dude, love you
Speaker 2: so much. We'll talk again soon. Listen. I'm blessed. I
Speaker 2: am so blessed.
Speaker 1: I've had some of the most amazing conversations today, John
Speaker 1: Murray being one of them.
Speaker 2: I'm so thankful for relationship.
Speaker 1: Along the years, one of my truth tellers, and I'm
Speaker 1: so glad to see him rise. I'm so excited to
Speaker 1: see him sore and live his dreams. And I pray
Speaker 1: you have friends that they're excited to see you sore,
Speaker 1: excited to see you rise as well.
Speaker 2: If you don't, you've got the wrong circle of friends.
Speaker 1: And so if you can also put into practice when
Speaker 1: he was talking about those twenty eight days of options
Speaker 1: to miss, I'd love to see.
Speaker 2: How it's working out for you. Know that I love.
Speaker 1: You and thank you again for listening to this amazing
Speaker 1: episode of Checking In. Checking In with Michelle Williams is
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.