WEBVTT - Part Two: The Bastards of Reality Television 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:07.800 Oh yeah, we're back behind the bastards, Behind the Bastards. 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:12.800 Lucy Goosey talking about reality TV week. Dave, How you doing? 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:17.560 How you doing, Dave? Well guest, Yeah, I'm I'm David Bell, 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:21.919 your guest, co owner of the Gamefully Unemployed network, that's 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:27.280 Arch Arch Capitalist podcast entrepreneur David Bell. Yeah, oh yeah, 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:30.880 I mean I ruled this city. You know you own 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:36.040 an entire pair of pants, Dave, an entire both pockets, 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:40.800 not even leasing them anymore paid. Yeah, I mean listen, 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.559 one of the pockets isn't it's not great shape, but 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:48.120 you know, you know, these things happen. It's your regular 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.240 wear and tear a pair of pants. How many pockets 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.600 do you really need, an honest man, one one? Any 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.360 more than one pocket? I don't trust that son of 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.520 a bitch. I don't trust anybody who's not holding everything. 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:05.840 They absolutely absolutely, That's why people wearing dresses are the 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:08.479 only people you can trust, unless it's one of these 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:15.199 like modern decadent dresses with pockets no hands. I don't 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:19.200 trust anybody with pockets. Why would we Why would anyone 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:25.040 trust anyway? Dave? How you how you how how are 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:27.440 you doing here? How are we feeling. I'm pretty good, 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:33.959 you know, I'm I mean, okay, Well, you know what 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:37.240 I'm learning about reality TV doesn't it's not great. You know, 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.000 I've lost a lot of faith. I'm pretty sure I've 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:44.600 lost several years of my life at this point. It's tragic. 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:48.200 You did have I Love Money three's logo tattooed on 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.720 your heart before that last episode, which is really yeah, yeah, 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.480 I'll probably just turn it to like heart honey something 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:59.160 like that, which is just as true it is, you know, yeah, 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:01.280 and in easy to do. You know what's Sophie, we 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:03.320 didn't play it last time? Would you pull up the 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:05.960 intro to I I Love Money three? I just kind 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:09.000 of want to hear what that looks like. Yeah, let's 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:11.959 do Money three. We're having just having a good time 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:16.440 with the buds talking about reality interest to reality shows. 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:20.240 I'm super scared as to how bad it is. It's 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:23.360 gonna be bad. How could it be good? Why would 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.880 it be good? What would be? The last episode ended 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.440 with a brutal murder, but this one is going to 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.720 have a higher body count. But first, let's watch the 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.280 I Love Money three intro. Let's see what was going 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.960 on with this fucking show. Do you know what it is? Robert? 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:45.680 Because minutes? Yeahs the whole thing. Here we go, just 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:50.800 play the entire thing. I so, I imagine it's not 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:54.360 season three, right number it's I Love Money parts? Is 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.320 it season three? Or is I think it's yeah, I 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:58.760 Love Money three revival. No, it must be I Love 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:00.800 Money three. We're learning a lot here? Is it? The 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:04.639 squeak will there's there's so many things. Why are there 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:06.720 so many things? I don't know. I don't know. If 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:08.920 I could, I could, I don't know. It doesn't. Just 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:11.600 find an episode and yeah, yeah, I think just any 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.640 old episode will have the It'll be fine. I feel 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:18.200 like you chose the one that will have it. Yeah, 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:22.520 this is not no, this is like a fan made montage. 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.800 I don't even want to think about that world. I 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:28.880 just find like an episode, episode four. There, season four 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.240 episode that'll be fine. I want to see the intro. 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:35.960 There we go, Yeah, hold on, it is it is. 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:40.560 I'm gonna turn the volume down because it's horrifying, Okay, 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:43.000 or let's restart. Okay, all right, we found it. Here 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:48.280 we go. I'm so sorry. I'll narrate it. Beach Bird, 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:54.800 Tropical beat Water celeb reality are about to stop the 0:03:55.760 --> 0:04:04.200 cheering on a bunch of white people television. Look is 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:11.920 not for you. Just the tour ends here they wait, wait, wait, 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.920 was that Brett Michaels. Yeah, that was Brett Michael's. That 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.279 was from the show we mentioned last episode where people 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:19.840 are trying to marry Brett Michaels. Yeah, I feel like 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.680 he said, Bret Michaels, and your brain protected itself by racing. 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:29.919 I wish, I wish I didn't know. Yeah, well you 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.240 do now keeping off the streets. It is keeping him 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.600 off the streets. That that is the number one goal 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.960 of an ethical society, keep Bret Michael's off the streets. 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:41.599 So that seems fun. That seems like a good show. 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.320 That that that was the season of the show that 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:49.839 had the murderer on it. So that's good, so Dave Bell. 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.400 In two thousand nineteen, The Son, a British tabloid, conducted 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.320 a study that found thirty eight suspected suicides which had 0:04:56.320 --> 0:05:00.279 been linked to reality television since nineteen eighties. Six. Now 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:03.200 this is fun because like both of course, you know 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:07.240 that's unsettling, but also probably not related to anything. Thirty 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:10.279 eight suicides in an industry with thousands and thousands and 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:14.400 thousands and thousands of contestants in like a thirty year period, 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.839 not really a big deal. That's actually surprisingly low. It's 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.919 really low actually if you really think about it. But 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.360 that's it's never that's not how it's like marketed. There's 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.560 just all of these because the Sun is a shitty tabloid, 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:27.960 and then a bunch of other shitty tabloids and stuff 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.719 like the Daily Mail put up articles being like thirty 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:34.520 eight suicides linked reality TV and it's like, yeah, in 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.359 half a century, Like, it's not really that big a 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:41.640 deal honestly if you look at it, um, But so 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:45.560 you know, yeah, there's there's probably more suicide's linked to 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:49.880 like stamp collecting. Absolutely, Oh my god, Dave, if you 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:52.919 ever been to a stamp convention, I mean, the biggest 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:55.760 danger is that someone is going to shoot themselves and 0:05:55.760 --> 0:06:03.000 you're it's like neat concert there. Yeah, it's break. That's 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.560 a fun reference for three of the people listening, David. 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.599 So you know, this study quote unquote is not really 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:13.960 evidence of an epidemic, but the study doesn't come out 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.200 of nowhere. It's sparked and again, the Sun is really 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:19.320 gross so like the thing that makes them conduct this 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:23.159 shitty study is a series of terrible suicides that occur 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:27.800 on the UK reality show called Love Island. Um so, 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.200 three testants on the show killed themselves over a three 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.120 year period. Since about a hundred people have been on 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.039 the show, this means Love Island contestants have a suicide 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:38.840 rate like three times as high as the rest of 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:42.200 the UK. Yeah, that's one a year for just one show, 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.080 so that it's worth looking into. Yeah, I think the 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.919 average for TV shows should be around zero. Yeah zero 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:54.000 ish zero is obviously you can't always get your zero 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:59.600 like that famously lost eleven norms in the first two seasons. Yeah, 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.200 they had to burn through norms. They have been through 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:09.159 norms like nobody's business. But yeah, um so yeah they 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.360 this is probably worth looking into, so let's look into 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:15.920 it a bit. Um Yeah. The UK Guardian describes the 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.480 show thus lee Love Island, a constructed reality TV show 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.640 thrusts a collection of twenty somethings into close quarters in 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:26.280 a majorcan via villa for about eight weeks. During that time, 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.440 the contestants are given the task of pairing up, going 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.960 on staged dates and strutting around in Beachwaar. Every week, 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.360 the public vote on which couples they want to boot off, 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.760 while opportunities to recouple also arise, which can lead to 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:41.200 some animosity when contestants leave their lover for another islander 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:43.960 right in front of them. I feel like we should 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:47.320 watch another intro here, Sophie. Yeah, show show us, show 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.760 us Love Island. Yeah, that's that seems like something that 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:56.239 would spawn, seems like something that could cause problems for people. Yeah, 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:58.480 or maybe the villa was haunted, but it's like the 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:02.560 Woman in Black, where like they're compelled or something. But 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:05.480 it's probably the first thing where the reality TV show. 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.640 There must have been like a found footage movie or 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.800 something about a reality show that gets haunted by a 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:13.520 ghost that makes everyone killed themselves. Right, that's that has 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:15.840 to look up. But there, Yeah, there has to be 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.560 because really one of the one of the foundations of 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:22.600 found footage is finding a reason a bunch of people 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:35.960 are filming. So yeah, fuck diving a fool awesome. Oh yeah, 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:45.640 that's the good ship. Yeah that was fine. That was fine. Um, 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.280 so yeah, Love Island. So you know, one of the 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.160 biggest stories about this show came in two thousand eighteen, 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:55.000 when it was announced that more people had applied to 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.400 be on that year's season than had applied to either 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:03.000 Oxford or Cambridge. And again, this is like the same 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:05.600 kind of people who like shared that terrible study about 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.120 this stunt, Like some like shared this is like evidence 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.640 of the decline of Western civilization, Like look at how 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.520 horrible it is that, like Love Island, more people are 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:16.320 trying to get on this show than are trying to 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:19.679 get into Oxford. And it's like number one, like how 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:22.400 many motherfuckers can actually go to Oxford as opposed to 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.720 can hang out on a beach? Like yeah, number two 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:29.080 people used to die by drinking poop water because they know. 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:33.920 It's just like, I'm a firm believer that time we 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:37.520 eventually everything eventually gets better with time. I'm not saying 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:40.959 it's perfect. Yeah, it's not not perfect. There's a lot 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.440 of problems. Obviously. It doesn't mean that there aren't problems 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.760 and that people's problems don't matter. But like that whole 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.760 idea of reality TV is like, look look at how 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.840 everything's declined. It's like, I don't know, yeah, it's I mean, 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:55.920 if you want to like look at Oxford and Cambridge 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:57.920 think about how many people who went on to commit 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.920 genocide in like British college. You're Oxford and Cambridge graduates. 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.240 I'd rather have reality stars. Let's like, let's they've done. 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:08.520 Reality TV show stars at this point have done less 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.600 damage to society on a global level than graduates of 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:16.960 Oxford and Cambridge. Absolutely like that that that's well documented, 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:21.160 you know. Um, It's also worth noting that, like the 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.920 applications thing is kind of like a little bit of 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:25.960 a misnomer because only about half of the cast of 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:29.240 Love Islander picked because they apply. Most of them are again, 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.280 as we talked about earlier, head hunted, like because they 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:36.920 have thriving social media accounts, like they're already influencers. And 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.080 this is I think a lot of reality has moved 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.280 this way. Why would you pick random people to be 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.200 on your show in the hope that some of them 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:46.360 will turn out to be stars instead of just like 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:50.679 find people who are already have like thriving fashion instagrams 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.360 or whatever. And but honestly that kind of bums me 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.400 out because it was like, you can always at least 0:10:56.400 --> 0:11:00.320 break into reality TV if you some like cool main act. 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:04.120 That was my plan. I was a date Flavor flav exactly. 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:06.719 We were all gonna date Flavor Flavor. But now it's 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.320 like even reality TV you have to like have a 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.840 resume for It's heartbreaking. Yeah, it's that idea of like 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:14.640 to be an intern you have to have like four 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:18.840 years of experience already. It's that it's for for reality TV. 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:23.640 It's like, come on, come on guys. Yeah. So yeah, um, 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.960 that's pretty cool. Um. The first Love Island suicide was 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:32.679 Sophie Graydon, age thirty two. She was a former beauty 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:34.559 queen who had spent a lot of time raising money 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.880 for kids with cancer. She seems nice. When she showed 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.679 up on the show, her fan base exploded, but a 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:42.960 ton of people also got angry that she paired off 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.240 with some guy they had a para social relationship with. Right, Like, 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.760 she starts I think, I'm not an expert on the show, 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:51.040 but she starts dating a guy, and fans of that 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:56.120 guy within the community of Love Island fans starts harassing her. Um, 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.240 it's great. So Grayden said this in an interview with 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.800 Radio Eerie. I think it's like the Irish radio station. Yeah, 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.000 I think it's Radio Eerie, UM or ire or whatever. 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.720 I don't know. Look, I've been to Ireland a bunch. 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.080 It's hard to say things in Ireland. I usually just 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:16.160 I usually just nod and smile politely quote it was horrific, 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.400 this is and this is again great in talking about 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.720 the harassment she gets when she dates this guy. It 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:22.800 was horrific. I think when you get so many comments 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.160 on the scale we did, coming out of thousands of followers, 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:26.760 sometimes I would look for it. There would be so 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.200 many negative comments. They're commenting on the way you look, 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:30.960 the way you talk. They would come up with an 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.120 opinion if you want a TV show where they're we've 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:36.800 watched you for forty five minutes and uh yeah, Like 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:39.520 that is how the internet works. Like if you've ever 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.360 I fucking I posted a video of like my cat 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:44.800 does this weird thing. She was never weaned, you know, Raja, 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:48.840 and she'll like, yeah, you've taken care of her for months, 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:52.000 exactly what you're about to talk. Yeah, She'll she'll stick 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:53.640 her tongue out and she'll like flip it in the air. 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.400 And she likes to stand next to running faucets and 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.120 just stare at them and do that with your tongue. 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:00.960 That's her hobby. It's her religion. She looks like the 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.360 pervert on the bus. Yeah, Like he's like just staring 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.439 blankly and licking the air. Yeah, my cat does a 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.320 similar thing. It sticks her. Yeah. When I when I 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.240 cat sat, I would have my cat drooling in my 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.199 armpit and Rajah sitting near my shoulder licking north near 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:20.920 my You can hear it, like it's weird. Yeah, And 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:22.800 so I post a video if you're doing this because 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.040 it's cute, and a bunch of people are like, this 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.600 means you're cat's dehydrated. You gotta lie and like like 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:29.559 suddenly like this flood of ship which is not till 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.599 you compare that to harassment, but it's like it's overwhelming, 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:34.960 like whenever a large group of people on the internet 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.200 decide to all do the same thing, and if that 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.400 thing they decide to do is harass you, like it 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:46.439 can destroy you. It does destroy people. It's the anytime 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.880 I have a tweet that goes viral, it's just like 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.920 tons of those, which I imagine is like the average 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:55.600 average experience for a woman on Twitter. Uh and and 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.200 I only get like a taste of it. And when 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.160 you get that taste, it's like my it's not been 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:04.360 like harassing. Sometimes it's just like people be correcting things 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:08.040 or like saying the same joke back to you, and 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.440 and it's just like, oh, it all takes up a 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.240 little bit of yeah, and it's it was overwhelming, And 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:16.800 like the show Love Island to talk about like their culpability. 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:19.400 They have to know this is going to happen to 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.160 their hosts, like to their I don't know what term 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.920 they use, not hosts probably, but like contestants, this happens. 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.440 We know this happens if you don't build a way 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.120 into like take care of people and anticipate that they 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:32.960 will be dealing with this. If you just leave them 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.520 to like swing in the wind, it is partly your 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.760 fault when bad things happen, right, I know. I said 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:39.640 in the last episode that, like it feels like people 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.440 would get used to it overtime reality TV. But this 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.880 is a new component. Is the Internet created cyber bullying, 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:47.480 which you don't even have to be on a reality 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.080 TV show to be affected by this. Yeah and yeah, 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.040 it's just like the worst version of the things that 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.280 we all always deal with, like versions of everybody deals 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.800 with little pieces of this. Sophie gets on this and 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:06.120 deals with just a directed torrent of abuse. Later the 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.520 year that year, like a few months after that interview 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.720 she gave where she talks about how overwhelming it is, 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.320 she hangs herself at her family home. Um, her boyfriend 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:19.640 finds the body, he kills himself less than three weeks later. Um, 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:24.040 it's it's a fucking rough story. Um. Now the coroner 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.320 they find cocaine and alcohol in her system, and the 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:28.840 coroner blames her suicide on that, which is probably why 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.480 people don't ask coroners for opinions on things a lot, 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:35.240 because like, I mean, why was she getting all fucked up? 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.640 You know? I mean I'm sure, yes, if somebody is 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:39.680 doing a shipload of cocaine and drinking and then they 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.640 kill themselves, the fact that they were inebriated, it's not 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.320 unreasonable to say, well, perhaps that influenced it. But like 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:48.440 also it's always more complicated than that. Maybe they were 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.480 needing to get fucked up because they had like the 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.000 traumatized by listen like torrent of abuse. You know, I'm 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:58.400 not one of them fancy mind scientists, but like I imagine, 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:03.840 if you're contemplating suicide, uh, you get fucked up first 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:08.560 to carry it out. Sure that too, Like, uh, like 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.200 that's part of it. Yeah, it's hard to like, it's 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:14.800 that thing. It's like I've never gotten I've never done 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:18.400 so much cocaine that i decided to hang myself. That 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:22.680 has to be a decision that I've made before that. Yeah, 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.920 and maybe you do the cocaine because you just again 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.240 we could we could talk about because you like cocaine. 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:32.000 But yeah, it's worth noting that, like this has become 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.280 a bit of a pattern for Love Island Stars less 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:41.440 than a year after her suicide. Uh, contestant Mike Thlastis Sallastitis. 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:44.600 I think he's Greek Um committed suicide in a similar 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.960 situation after taking a lot of cocaine and alcohol. Um, 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:49.800 like great, and he had stuff going on in his 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:52.440 life beyond the show. I think his grandmother had just 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.720 died like he had. He was sad for a number 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:57.600 of reasons. But also it's worth noting, like, oh, well, 0:16:57.640 --> 0:16:59.480 maybe the fact that this is a party show about 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:03.040 partying young people, where everyone's drinking on screen and everybody's 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:07.359 taking cocaine off screen, maybe this culture also does things 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:09.760 that are unhealthy to people and put them in more 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:15.560 vulnerable positions combined with the Internet ship exactly perfect storm 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:21.359 to Yeah, a young impressionable person and you you crank 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.920 them through this machine and some of them will make it. Yeah, 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:27.640 some of them will not make it. Um. Critics attacked 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.000 the series for not taking care of its contestants, are 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:33.160 providing any mental health care to deal with the strain um. 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.920 Caroline Flack, who hosted the show, defended it to Cosmo 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.679 in an interview, quote, It's dangerous and I'm really really angry. 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:42.679 It's not just that you're blaming a TV show. You're 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.159 blaming people in their jobs. In life. We all have 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:46.760 a duty to look out for each other. But I 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.719 don't think it's fair to point fingers of blame. So 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.520 Caroline says that, like attacking the show for having something 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.800 to do with these suicides is really unfair. She's she's 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.640 as the host of the show, is very vocal about that. 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.000 A year later, she's removed from her job hosting Love 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.720 Island after she was accused of assaulting her boyfriend with 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.479 a lamp. She denied the charges and was gearing up 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.240 to fight it in court when she committed suicide as well. 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:14.880 So that might again it's never just the show. There's 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.880 obviously different stuff going on with all these people, but like, 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:21.879 this doesn't happen because the show is fine, And do 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:27.399 we know what the behind the scenes is here not? Yeah, 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:31.320 it's just wild that like, like I know, I know 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.320 plenty of sex workers. I know people who worked for say, 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:40.120 kink dot com, um, and I'm sure in that industry 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.200 there's always scumbags, there's always shitty things. But a website 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:47.680 like that, they're actually very careful behind the scenes because 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:49.680 they know they have to be because they're dealing with 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:54.920 something that you know, could easily something um bad could 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.919 happen if they're not careful. Yeah, you're playing you know, 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.040 you're playing with fire. And like obviously they're there's criticisms 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.119 to make, like kink dot com and stuff, but they 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.040 they they had more much more built in than you 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.040 had in Love Island up to right, And that's I 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.680 guess that's what surprises me is that we watch reality 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:16.080 TV because it's it's toxic, yeah, and that's the fun 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:20.320 of it. So you would think that because of that 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:25.480 they would be extra careful. Yeah, and yeah, it's it's 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.800 I have friends who do heroin and they tend to 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:29.679 make sure that, like they've got a buddy to do 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:33.480 heroin with who has narcan, which I'm not endorsing doing heroin, 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:35.760 but it's this thing you do. You know, if in 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:37.960 any other facet of life, if you know you're gonna 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:41.080 do something toxic, you like make sure you take some 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:43.600 steps to Like I'm gonna go out drinking. It's bad 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:45.520 for me, I'm gonna make sure I take a cab home, 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:49.800 you know, but mitigates the damage. If a specific industry 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:56.040 is depicting something that's seen as dangerous or seen as wrong, 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.600 whether or not it is, um, you would, you know, 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.879 you would take steps about that. And that's what's incredible 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.600 to me about these reality TV shows is that they're 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:10.080 more widely accepted than industries that are more careful. Yeah, 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:13.000 and that is wild to me. Yeah. When I was 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.960 buying random powdered drugs from dudes at parties, some of 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.119 them would even bring their own testing kits and you 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.280 could be like, oh, yeah, this is an actual this 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.800 is actually the drug I'm paying for. Um, you know, 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.720 that's just good business. That's just good business. Let my 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:32.080 drug dealer from two thousand seven run Love Island that's 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.439 what I write today. Well, yeah, because when when a 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:38.000 group of people are more scrutinized than they're just or 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:41.560 like they have a built in scrutiny, like they're dealing drugs, 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:43.639 like they know like okay, I have to be on 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.800 my best damn behavior, which is getting careful. Yeah. Not 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.959 all drug dealers are as good. Some drug dealers are bad, 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:53.480 but as a general rule, they are the most moral 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:55.639 people in our society. I think we can all expect 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:58.000 on that. It's like a mosh pit. Is the reason 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:00.320 mosh pits exist is because they kind of over in 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:04.679 themselves usually. Yeah, and so I guess my what this 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.360 all comes down to that's amazing to me is that 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:12.200 they didn't think to do this for reality TV especially 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:16.359 something is toxic as this, where it's like they should 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:21.080 have people they're specifically to work on the mental health 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.080 of the people here. It shouldn't take three suicides before 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.840 the show was like, yeah, we probably have somebody. No, 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:28.840 it should have been their day. Yeah, that should that 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:31.000 that should have been their day. Like we've been joking 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:33.240 about like drug dealers and stuff. But this isn't in 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.159 its own way as reckless as like all right, well, 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:38.720 we're gonna have some guns on set for this gunfight scene. 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:41.639 Who's gonna make sure the gun stuff safe? Well? How 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:43.800 about much he's watched a lot of movies. Let's just 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:47.000 have Mitch running okay, right? Yeah, And I think it's 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:49.560 big in the entertainment industry because I know, you know, 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:52.800 we people talk about people like Kubrick and like, you know, 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:58.119 big artist directors who sacrifice the mental health of actors 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:00.679 for art, and it's like, yeah, that's it's weird that 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:03.640 we're only now coming around to that where it's like, 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:07.439 you know, there there should be someone on any set 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:13.160 being in charge of this ship, especially reality TV. It's 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:16.880 just conte it is. It's very wild. But you know, Dave, 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:19.840 you know who does hold us accountable here behind the bastards. 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:22.879 You're not gonna say, Jesus, are you? You know, David 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:24.840 is Jesus Christ. And let me tell you a lot 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:26.480 of people are going to say, this is a weird 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.760 time for for Robert to reveal that he's an evangelical 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:32.600