WEBVTT - Blake Conant on the PGA Championship Setup and Brooks Koepka’s Win 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:04.640 Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:07.720 Before we get into our episode, I just want to 0:00:07.720 --> 0:00:11.479 take a moment and thank our PGA week sponsor Greater Than. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.600 I have been drinking Greater Than for a number of years. 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:19.360 It's really good stuff. I drank it before I started 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:21.720 the Frida Egg and I'm really happy to be partnered 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:25.959 up with these guys. 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Obviously, you can 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:05.880 always check out the Shotgun Start to get your golf 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:09.319 news and updates fixed and Brenda and I did a 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:13.640 expansive recap on the PGA there, so I had Blake 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:17.640 Conant on, who you might remember from the Achin podcast. 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:22.680 Blake is a young architect. He works as a shaper 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.679 for Tom Doak and Renaissance Golf and he was texting 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:28.679 me during the coverage, so I figured I have him on. 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.080 We talked a lot about course set up and challenging 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.880 the pros and you know kind of how how Beth 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:38.000 Page was presented and you know the leaderboard that came 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:41.280 of it. So thanks for Blake for coming on, and 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:43.440 without further ado here he is. 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:48.840 I miss the green for example, I'm already upset. 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.240 When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:52.200 And when I find my. 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:54.320 Ball in a brid egg Frida egg and. 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.640 Dread and Frida egg, Frida egg, Fridgrida egg. 0:01:57.480 --> 0:01:59.600 Bride egg lie, I'm about ready to run off the 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:00.440 golf course. 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:26.360 So, uh, what what have you been up to, Blake? 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:26.880 Been? 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.880 Uh been a couple of months since we talked a 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:30.919 little bit about Acon. 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.959 Yeah, as I've been traveling back and forth to Houston 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:45.720 and helping out with Tom's project there a memorial park gone, 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:52.080 and helped on a couple other projects in h renaissances 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:56.000 with with Brian Scheinder and Eric Ivers, snuffing Long islanded 0:02:56.080 --> 0:03:00.720 up in Washington Golf, wrap it up those two things. 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.840 Washington just got hammered with rain, so their project is 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:08.239 like extended over into the spring. But it's coming together nicely. 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:10.680 That's a cool, little, cool little thing, and it sort 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.400 of informed some work in. 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.200 Houston, so it was good to go back and see it. 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:20.840 Yeah it I was out there too in the spring. 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:24.480 It's a cool place. It's that the property is crazy. 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:31.480 It's nuts. I don't understand how they fit eighteen holes 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.000 on that clubhouse side of the property, you know what 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.560 I mean. And then they added the forty acres. Did 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.200 Flinn routed five or six holes that actually have enough 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:43.560 room and those feel great, but the topography's wild. 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.800 Yeah, it's it's nuts. So you've been you've been off 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:49.760 a little you uh. You caught a lot of. 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:54.240 The PGA this last week, huh? I did? 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:54.640 I had? 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:55.080 You know. 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:57.560 The great thing is when you're not working, you're you're 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:02.440 not working at all. So I had plenty of time 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.640 to watch the p t A and just get into it. 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:07.400 Girlfriends and face. 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:11.760 Now is at work, so yeah, congrat congratulations. 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.400 Yeah, that's also happened. You're not working, you can propose 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:17.760 to your to your girlfriends. 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:22.440 So that's great, that's that's awesome. That's uh. Now now 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.160 you get a Now you get a wedding plan. 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:27.960 Yeah, exactly, No, the. 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.440 Google Google docs have already started rolling in. 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.040 We're dealing with that. 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:38.360 It's your new part time job. So what do you 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:38.800 what did. 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.440 You what were your what were your big takeaways from 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:46.080 the weekend? 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.679 You know, honestly, it was it was a bit boring, 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:56.080 and the first day sort of captured everybody because it's 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:58.800 Tiger and Brooks going off in the morning. 0:04:58.960 --> 0:04:59.600 I had. 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.159 They were the feature group in the morning and I 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:08.039 was having watching them on my PGA app on the TV, 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.680 so it was great. And then it's just I think 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.200 Brooks has posted a number and everybody tried to get 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.479 it the afternoon, that's Thursday. 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.080 Morning, they went off, right, Yeah, yeah, he just he 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.039 just kind of he kind of just rushed the field, 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:22.479 you know, blitz. 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:26.200 Yeah, and then it sort of went downhill for the air. 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:28.960 I mean, there wasn't really much drama to be had 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:33.080 until DJ and Brooks almost got tied on the back. 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:33.840 Nine on Sunday. 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:37.440 Yeah, it was. 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.520 Watching Jim Dance and Nick Valdo try to create drama. 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:48.159 Yeah, it was the I think that when I talked 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:51.839 to Jeff Ogilvie before leading up the championship, he kind 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.039 of laid it out. You know, you're going to see 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:58.760 a long hitting, high ball hitter win, just because that's 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.719 the way Bethpage is. You know, somebody who executes well 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.760 and hits it far and high. And I think you know, 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.920 given how much rain they had up in the Northeast, 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.599 it played even more into the bomber's hands in the 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.640 sense of the rough was just unbelievably thick. 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.919 Yeah, I mean that you could tell that right away, 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:22.040 and they kept they kept mentioning that throughout Brooks' round 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.839 of how he had said, I only have to beat 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.799 a third of the field or something, and he's probably 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.440 referencing that, well, Francisco Molinari, as good as he might 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:35.000 be playing, had no chance. So he's probably not even 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:36.720 worried about Molinari this week. 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.880 Yeah, it was everybody was talking about Tiger and the 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:46.320 lead up, and because obviously his success at Bethpage winning 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:50.680 in twenty twelve or two thousand and two and it's 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.000 just like, you know, that was such a different Tiger 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:56.160 Woods than what we see today where you know, he 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.200 was he was kind of the Brooks Kopka then, where 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.920 he had a you know, a physical and and huge 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:06.120 length advantage over everybody in the field. But but now 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.560 he's kind of like the crafty veteran who who who 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.600 gets it around and and I think that's That's one 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:14.640 of the reasons I wanted to talk with you is that, 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:18.120 you know, just from an architecture standpoint, set up standpoint, 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.760 I thought, you know, the the championship, and this is 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.560 one of the things I think is is it's okay 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.520 to have a championship like this. I think that the 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.560 important thing is to understand that that if we have 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:32.760 a setup like this, that this is what's going to 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:34.560 happen more often than not. 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:40.160 Right, Yeah, absolutely, I mean, you know, I was getting 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:42.960 so tired of listening on eighteen of guys hoping the 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:44.000 ball gets in the bunker. 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:47.680 It's just it becomes nauseating. At some point. 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:51.040 Those bunkers are all there, sort of the hallmark of 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.840 the course, and they're supposed to be fears, and you know, 0:07:54.840 --> 0:08:00.440 it doesn't even it's frustrating after a while, arrow up 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.680 the fairways, you grow the rough up the guys want 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:04.920 to get in the bunkers. The most iconic thing about 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:11.280 bet Page in the first place it is that you're right, 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.440 that's exactly what you're gonna get. So if you're fine 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.440 with that, then then keep running your tournaments that way. 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:18.960 Yeah, it'll be it'll be interesting. 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:23.640 And obviously I know the next event will be at 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:28.240 at Best or at at Pebble, and you know you're 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.480 gonna we're gonna see much of the same, but a 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.120 much shorter golf course. You know, from from your standpoint, 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.920 from an architecture standpoint, you know, these are two classic 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.680 golf courses. You know, what would you say they were 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:46.400 being when you narrow the rough? What are we losing 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:51.400 from a from a standpoint of a viewer, and is 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:52.760 there what are are we gain? 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:53.760 What are we gaining? 0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:02.719 Mm hmm, you know, I think what you're losing obviously 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.679 is different ways to play hoole like six if that 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:09.760 page is a great example of fairways way too narrow 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.560 to take advantage of some of the angles that are 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:19.120 created there. So you you are one the same way, 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:23.800 It's like you end up with allowing guys to get 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.880 out of position but then still have a recovery. You know, 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:31.079 part of that's predicated on having interesting greens and in positions, 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:35.880 which I don't think that page has as much as pebbles. 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:42.280 So it's you know, if you're in the rough at 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:48.200 that page, is you're not really the greens aren't asking 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.760 you to be on one side of the fairway or 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:57.920 for the other oftentimes. Yeah, so you're you're losing some 0:09:58.080 --> 0:09:58.280 of that. 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:01.840 And then what was the second part. 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:02.160 Of your question? 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.040 And uh, you know, what do you do you think 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.200 we're gaining anything with the narrow fairways? 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:09.720 Is there you know, a way to play? 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:13.600 You know, I'm out obviously a with advocate. You know, 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.280 I don't think anybody doesn't think that, But I'm curious, 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.080 from a Devil's advocate standpoint, do you think there's any 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.680 anything that you know, the general public gains from having 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.560 the narrow fairways thick rough. 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:28.800 The general public? 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:30.800 I don't. I don't think so. 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.360 I mean, I understand it if if you're a club 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.520 on a tight budget and you've got you've got to 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:40.680 worry about dollars, but you know, for a tournament like this, 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:44.160 it's you're you're making a conscious decision just to assume 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:48.280 that the well will never go dry. So they're they're 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:52.360 doing that for a reason, you know. The one if 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:54.240 if I had to play Devil's Advocate. The one thing 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.880 I I think they think it tests is if you're 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:01.320 gonna take on the risky play, you're going to have 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:03.559 to hit it straight and you're going to have to 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:08.680 hit a great shot, or you can lay back and 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:14.280 it'll you know, and then you've got more options. You're 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:17.040 just further away. But they really like to test these guys. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:21.440 They're just putting the onus on them. I think there's 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:27.120 different ways to test a good player, But if that's 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:28.679 the way they want to go about it, then you're 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:34.160 going to see more venues like Beth Page or so. Yeah. 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.480 I mean, it's just how do you want to challenge 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:40.000 these guys? And that's the way they've chosen to challenge them. 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.160 And I don't necessarily agree that it's the best challenge, 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:49.080 but it's certainly the consistent challenge, you know what I mean. 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:53.560 I find it kind of fascinating because to me, what 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.240 Best Page did with it? When you're making when the 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:58.960 fairways are I think on average, they were twenty six 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:04.319 yards wide. You know, you're the average tour pro, say 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:08.160 it's three hundred yards. They're dispersion from you know, right 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:13.760 to left. Miss is about seventy yards right, And if 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.360 you lay back with a three iron, you know, your 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:21.280 chances of hitting the fairway are only marginally better because 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:26.559 of how narrow it is, right, Yeah, and then you're 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:30.280 leaving a really long approach and do a green. A 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.640 lot of those greens are elevated with with fronting hazards, 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.120 so you're hitting you know, long irons in there's there 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:40.960 was really no reason to lay back, you know, there was, 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.520 and I think Brooks, you know, took full advantage of that. 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:48.079 I mean that's what we saw. Brooks hit driver almost everywhere. 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.640 And you know, and then when he missed the fairway, 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:53.920 he was fine because he was hitting the high lofted 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:57.240 clubs into the greens that require an aerial approach, and 0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.760 he's you know, the one thing you can't take away 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:03.320 is his strength was clearly an advantage with this type 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:03.840 of setup. 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.280 Yeah. Absolutely, even even when he found himself in trouble, 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.360 he's strong enough to get it out of that rough. 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.760 You know, I think of HB three with his with 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.520 his shot on the last day that just went forty 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:22.400 five degrees left. And I think Brooks was over there 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:25.240 maybe Friday, and it could have very well been a 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.320 different live but it was in the same sort of stuff, 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:34.240 and he's just strong enough to muscle it out. 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:32.400 You know. 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:34.880 And I think about six two when you say there's 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.960 no advantage to lay up, that's a perfect example of 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.720 they were asking guys to be really precise, even for 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:49.079 their layouts, or even for even for yeah, clubbing down 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.400 where if you just open up a little fair way 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:55.400 to the right and make it thirty or thirty five 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.120 yards wide, it gives guys more incentive to lay back 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:05.240 and not take on that risk, which you know, like 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.480 like you said, if you're if you're going to force 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.080 their hand, then they're always going to take the longer club. 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:11.560 Yeah. 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.560 Did you watch a lot of the Open at the 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:16.560 US Open at Aaron Hill's when it was there? 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:19.040 You know, I don't know if I did. 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:21.520 I think I was working. What was that two years ago? 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:27.640 Yeah, two years ago, twenty seventeen. There's a have you 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:28.240 been out there? 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:33.440 Though I haven't been out to Aaron Hill No. All 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:35.960 I know is Tom talks about it. I think Tom 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.400 did a routing out there and that it was a 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:42.080 great piece of land. So that's about as much as 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:43.880 I know about it other than what I saw on TV. 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:48.000 It's I've been looking into stuff and I'm trying to 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.120 write a little bit of an article, but I don't 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.760 know if it'll ever ever come to fruition. As you know, 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:58.040 writing happens a lot of times. But the it's a 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.840 I find all these compelling parallels with Aaron Hills and 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:05.160 Beth Page, but like a starkly different setup, right. 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.160 You know, Brooks won. 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:12.360 Both of those titles, shooting two seventy two, and you 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.280 know both of them. I think the general golf world 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.480 had like the same takeaway from it is like, Wow, 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.000 Brooks just overpowered the golf course. 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:21.760 You know. 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.440 And the big difference was, you know, Aaron Hills, we 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:29.600 saw forty fifty sixty yard wide pharaways and Beth Page 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:35.880 we saw we saw twenty six yard wide pharaways right right, 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.480 And and what we saw at Beth Page. You know, 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.840 Beth Page, nobody really had a shot except for DJ 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.320 in the in the fleeting moments. But DJ is the 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:50.880 same style players Brooks, right. So, but then you look, 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.640 you look at Aaron Hills and there were you know, 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:56.960 Sunday going into Sunday, it was you know, long setup 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.520 and a ton of guys had a shot and you know, 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.200 including the likes. You know, you had Brian Harmon, you 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.760 had a Headecki, Tommy Fleetwood, Bill Hass, you know, Charlie 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:11.520 Hoffman as well as you know Fowler and JT. You know, 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:15.000 you had a wide range of guys in that mix. 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:19.400 And I thought it was an interesting parallel because that 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.200 was not the Brooks you know, finished seventh on the 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:26.680 week and driving distance fourth and driving accuracy and first 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:28.320 in greens and regulation. 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:31.360 Like he clearly just struck the ball beautifully. 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:35.080 But then you know you got Brian Harmon finishing runner 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.200 up and he's fifty second in driving distance, And I just. 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.320 Thought it was an interesting difference. Is like. 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:47.200 You weren't seeing any short hitters thrive at Bethpage. And 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.400 I think that those narrow fairways, it's counterintuitive, just like golf, 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.960 where the narrow fairways just took them. 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:54.280 Out of it. 0:16:56.320 --> 0:17:03.640 Yeah, and and so are you saying, I suppose I'm 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:07.160 curious what you think the difference is. Do you think 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:11.000 it's only the width of the fairways or that's the 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:14.560 biggest aspect of it. That sort of made it more 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.159 of a well rounded field on Sunday at Aaron Hills 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:18.360 compared to bet Page. 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.760 Well, so it's a huge ballpark, right, So it was like, 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:25.480 I think it was seventy seven hundred yards, Beth Page 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:26.600 was seventy four. 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.120 You know, a lot of similarities. They both had, they 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:30.640 had rain. 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:33.520 I think the big difference was beth Page got that 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.160 wind on Sunday, but Aaron Hills never got really the wind. 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:37.919 That they expected. 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:42.120 But the thing about it is like, so Brian, say, 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.479 take chez Revi, who was in the mix. He had 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.439 a bad last day there. He was he hit ninety 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:51.000 one percent of the fairways. He's one of the shortest 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.639 hitters on tour. So he hit ninety one percent of 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:59.440 the fairways at Aaron Hills. And like that's a skill 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:03.320 that was allowed to thrive and and from the fairway. 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:07.720 These shorter guys can can compete because they can hit 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:10.399 long irons close. That's way, that's why they're making a 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:14.199 living out there, right. But if you if these guys, 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.720 you know, and they're say they're dispersion sixty yards right. 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:20.640 The shorter hitters, yeah, they can't hit. 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:24.000 They can't hit ninety percent of fairways at at uh 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:24.960 at a bath. 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:33.400 Page, No that would. But if you can't, I can't 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:35.480 hit those four irons from the rough. 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:40.160 Though, you know, right, it's it's the four arms from 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:45.080 the rough. And then it's it's also the uh, the 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:46.679 fact that those fairways are wide. 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:47.200 Still. 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:49.199 You may be in the fairway, but you're on the 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:51.720 totally wrong side of the fairway and you've got to 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.200 pull off an incredible shot or you have to know 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:57.560 where to miss on the green and just accept the 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:00.080 fact that, yeah, I hit another fairaway, but I have 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.520 no shot at its taking on this screen. I have 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.120 to completely play away from the pin. And I imagine 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:08.240 a player like Brian Harmon is really good at that. 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:10.399 I think one of the things that Brooks kept is 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:15.040 really underrated at is knowing where to miss. The guy 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:20.840 just very rarely short sides himself, and he is so 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.440 he's so aggressive when he needs to be and never 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.280 when he has to be, and he never feels outside pressure. 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.080 It's almost like he's he knows where all seventy two 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.720 pen positions are going to be, and he's mapped out 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.639 wherever he miss is for every day, and he just 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:42.320 goes about assistance. And I just I don't think there 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:44.320 are many guys in the world who are capable of 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:50.720 having that kind of restriction and confidence in their game 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:54.200 and restraint. So I think he's got to give him 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:58.400 some credit to where it probably worked out that way both. 0:19:58.200 --> 0:19:59.840 At Aaron Hills and his best page. 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:01.560 Oh definitely. 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.879 And and this is this conversations knows like whatsoever. I mean, 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:07.800 I think he's the best player in the world. And 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:14.000 obviously with like you know, uh with with hint, with 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:16.800 power players that always have the ability to be the 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.240 most dominant players in the in the world. And there's 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:21.399 a reason why the greatest players of all time have 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.400 all been power players is because, like you know, most 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.760 skills in golf are very have high variance. Like you know, 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:30.400 day to day, you don't know what's going to come 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.560 when you walk to the golf course. But if you 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:35.520 have power, that's coming with you every day, you know. 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.320 So if you are able to master all the other 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.080 skills you know and you have power, you're going to 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:43.120 be better than the guy that masters all the skills 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:44.399 and doesn't have power. 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:52.680 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, just teaching those guys with power to 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:57.000 to not always lean on that, you know, and maybe 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.840 it takes those guys a lot of time to learn, 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:02.919 and the really good ones learning quickly. 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:04.240 Yeah. 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:09.320 Yeah, it's it's it's it's a fascinating thing with with Keopka, 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:13.719 just because, like I think he's he's the first player 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:18.600 we've seen since Tiger that really has like where you 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:20.639 look at his game and you're like, he's he doesn't 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:24.160 have any glaring deficiencies, right, you know, Jason Day had 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:26.560 a great run, but you always were like, well, he 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.280 gets a little squirrely with the driver, his iron game 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:33.080 isn't that great, but he's you know, wonderful around the 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:33.920 green speeth. 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.159 You know, he didn't have the power. You know, he 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:38.159 doesn't have the power. 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:40.920 And then you got like Rory, You're always wondering if 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.639 the putter is going to show up, whereas like, you know, Keepka. 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:45.919 That's that's his strength, I mean, and that's it's why 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:48.800 it's not surprising that we've seen him win at so 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:51.560 many different types of golf courses, whether it be Shinnacock, 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:56.439 Aaron Hill's, Bethpage or Belle reeve. You know that, you know, 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:58.760 three distinctly different styles there. 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:03.800 Yeah, very yeah, that's a good way to put it. 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:10.280 And and I guess every one of them. What I 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:14.040 think it's underrated because rightfully so what what gets all 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:18.359 the headlines? Brooks over powers of fields. But I really 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:21.200 do think his ability to think around a golf course 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:27.359 is underrated. And and maybe that's what a lot of 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:30.560 golf courses that they play on tour are lacking. Is 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:34.040 you're it's just the bombing gouge. You don't really have 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:34.760 to think. 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:35.560 About where to min. 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:39.320 You know, you don't have to think about when to 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:41.399 be aggressive or not to be aggressive. Those guys just 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.280 hitting as far as they can, and those really good 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.960 tests of golf always sort of bring out the thinkers, 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:48.800 you know what I mean. 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:55.000 Yeah, it's interesting how the how the major championships, how 0:22:55.280 --> 0:23:00.720 they're so distinctly the leaderboard kind of separates differently, and 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:04.879 you see different guys on the leader boards at majors 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:08.640 than you would at your run of the mill Tour event. Now, 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:11.240 let's take a quick break to talk about our sponsors. 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:15.639 Today's episode is powered by tdum Or Trade. Whether on 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:17.960 the course or in the market, it helps to have 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:20.160 a second set of eyes to keep you on your game. 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:23.119 That's why tedum Merrior Trades Trade desk is here to 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:26.440 help gut check your strategies so you always feel confident 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:30.040 teeing up a trade. Visit tedm ror Trade slash fried 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:32.719 Egg to learn more about what their trade desk can 0:23:32.760 --> 0:23:33.280 do for you. 0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:35.159 Member s I PC. 0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:38.960 Now back to Blake Conan, you know, kind of going 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:41.280 on with thinking like a lot of people say that 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:44.920 angles don't really matter at the professional level. 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:47.200 What are your thoughts on that. 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:55.439 I mean, I would tend to agree almost they just 0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:58.760 hit them all to fucking high that it. You know, 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:03.159 if if you've got a green that's sloping away from 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:07.560 at one and a half percent, but they hit their 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:10.280 four iron or five iron one hundred and thirty feet high, 0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:14.960 they still have enough room to stop it. And you 0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:18.080 can't get green so crazy that you've got something sloping 0:24:18.119 --> 0:24:20.280 away from the line of play at three percent just 0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:24.119 to combat that zero point one percent of good golfers. 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:29.399 So you know, at some point you can't you can't 0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:33.040 design stuff to hurt everybody else or that vast majority 0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:35.760 of the field just to challenge that guy with with 0:24:35.960 --> 0:24:39.120 angles that you know, at at the end of the day, 0:24:39.160 --> 0:24:44.400 they're they're really really good and if they pull off 0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:46.800 a good drive and a good high four iron to 0:24:46.800 --> 0:24:48.479 get to the green they have a birdie putt, then 0:24:49.520 --> 0:24:54.760 you know, congratulations. And maybe that's maybe that's what the 0:24:54.800 --> 0:24:56.960 PGA Tour why they grow the rough up so high. 0:24:56.960 --> 0:24:58.400 They've just been defeated for. 0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:00.679 The past twenty years. They don't know how to challenge 0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:03.159 these guys anymore, but they know that rough works, and 0:25:03.240 --> 0:25:08.600 so that's that's their sort of defeat is mentality. You know, 0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:13.600 I'd be curious to see some I'd be curious to 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:17.040 see some sharper angles, something sharper than like twenty degrees. Say, 0:25:18.200 --> 0:25:20.040 you know, if you started getting like a thirty or 0:25:20.080 --> 0:25:22.000 forty degree angle, or I guess it would be like 0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:23.879 one hundred and twenty one hundred and thirty degree angle 0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:27.000 if you look at it, something like thirteen at Augusta 0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:30.600 it is that's when you're starting to get the angles 0:25:30.640 --> 0:25:36.240 that challenge those guys. But just a slight dog legs 0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:39.120 isn't anything that they really think about. 0:25:39.200 --> 0:25:42.600 I don't think that's an interesting thought, because, like I 0:25:42.640 --> 0:25:46.600 feel like most classic golf courses in classic design, you know, 0:25:46.680 --> 0:25:50.360 you saw very few sharp dog legs. Then they came 0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:54.520 in and kind of vogue in the sixties seventies that 0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:57.080 you saw a lot more dog tree lined dog legs. 0:25:57.640 --> 0:26:02.280 And you know the now I think we're going back 0:26:02.320 --> 0:26:06.560 towards that straighter golf design. Do you think, you know, 0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:11.080 if you were thinking about professionals that you know, it's 0:26:11.160 --> 0:26:13.439 just kind of modernizing those dog legs of. 0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:19.480 Yesteryear, modernizing the dog leg because like. 0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:23.280 You know, like Point of Woods for example, which was 0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:26.440 like the longtime host of the Western m I remember 0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:29.960 hearing that, you know, like they you know, Dustin Johnson's 0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:31.560 out there. He was played in one of the last 0:26:31.560 --> 0:26:34.080 ones there. They're going back this year, but you know 0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:37.320 he was just taking it over all the dog legs. 0:26:38.400 --> 0:26:38.760 Really. 0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:39.399 Yeah. 0:26:39.640 --> 0:26:44.000 Well, and and I'm curious, was the turning point of 0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:49.000 those dog legs based on older distances or it's the 0:26:49.080 --> 0:26:51.560 turning point or the angle in which it turns more 0:26:51.640 --> 0:26:52.200 set up. 0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:53.520 For a pro disting there. 0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:56.520 I think I think what happened was it is a 0:26:56.680 --> 0:27:00.440 obviously it's an RTJ course and it was set at 0:27:01.080 --> 0:27:02.560 a former pro length. 0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:05.840 Okay, so then. 0:27:05.720 --> 0:27:08.000 He has to take off the corner or he has 0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:11.800 to clumb down to play it as the whole intended. 0:27:11.520 --> 0:27:14.560 Basically, Yeah, and so he chose like, hey, I'm just 0:27:14.600 --> 0:27:16.760 going to launch it over the trees all week. 0:27:18.800 --> 0:27:20.400 Yeah yeah, and. 0:27:22.960 --> 0:27:24.480 I you know, what do you want? 0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:26.760 What do you do for that? 0:27:27.520 --> 0:27:28.080 How do you. 0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:33.399 That's the crazy the crazy question because then like the 0:27:33.920 --> 0:27:37.040 I think that's where the tricky thing is with where 0:27:37.200 --> 0:27:39.840 kind of golf is going, is like, okay, so dog 0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:42.840 legs work, right, but then like, how do you design 0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:47.760 a dog leg for for brooks Kopka and you're eighteen 0:27:47.800 --> 0:27:49.440 handicap that plays on the weekend. 0:27:51.680 --> 0:27:54.080 Yeah, I mean, I think the one thing you have 0:27:54.200 --> 0:27:59.400 to do is make sure the turning point are set 0:27:59.480 --> 0:28:02.000 for the majority of golfers. Now, whether it's a hinge 0:28:02.040 --> 0:28:06.679 turning point or whether it it's gradually been you know, 0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:09.840 you can't start putting the turning points at three hundred 0:28:10.000 --> 0:28:11.919 to make those guys think, because then you're gonna end 0:28:12.000 --> 0:28:14.399 up with ninety percent of the golfers you can't make 0:28:14.440 --> 0:28:17.919 it around the corner and are stuck behind a bunker, 0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:20.879 stuck behind trees, have a bad angle to the green, 0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:25.479 you know whatever. I just think that that would be 0:28:25.520 --> 0:28:33.040 catering too much as a professional, you know, And the 0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:36.280 one thing that that makes the pros do is get 0:28:36.280 --> 0:28:39.320 into the decision of something like, uh, we're dust to 0:28:39.400 --> 0:28:41.400 dustan where you either have to club down and yeah 0:28:41.440 --> 0:28:44.000 you've got to turn over your five wood or you 0:28:44.080 --> 0:28:46.040 have to try to bomb your driver over the trees. 0:28:48.000 --> 0:28:51.680 Is it? Is it tp? Is it stagraph that has 0:28:51.680 --> 0:28:55.200 the limb that overhangs one of the back piece to 0:28:55.280 --> 0:28:59.680 force the pros trajectory down. Is that it stawgrass? 0:29:00.480 --> 0:29:00.959 I don't know. 0:29:01.080 --> 0:29:04.280 I don't think they have I'm not sure. I don't 0:29:04.320 --> 0:29:07.360 think they have one there. If they did, it would 0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:09.760 be one of those holes on the back line, right. 0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:13.760 Yeah, well yeah, and I didn't know it. 0:29:14.240 --> 0:29:17.440 Back line sounds right, But you know what what you're 0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:20.760 talking about, I think is one of the things this 0:29:20.840 --> 0:29:26.720 week Colonial does to a lot of guys, Like they 0:29:26.800 --> 0:29:29.880 have those dog legs out there, and I know Rom 0:29:29.960 --> 0:29:33.560 has been playing them very very aggressively, like you know, 0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:36.080 going over, But for the most part, guys all play 0:29:36.160 --> 0:29:39.160 to the corners of the dog legs. And that's why 0:29:39.360 --> 0:29:41.920 you see it like a really wide range of guys 0:29:41.920 --> 0:29:42.960 that win at Colonial. 0:29:44.960 --> 0:29:49.840 Interesting. Okay, then it comes down of who's playing the 0:29:49.840 --> 0:29:55.000 best golf this week, not who's just overpowering the field 0:29:55.160 --> 0:29:58.920 and having the be yard closer to the pan every hole. 0:30:00.120 --> 0:30:00.800 Yeah, do you? 0:30:01.000 --> 0:30:04.240 I mean so so obviously with the Masters, you we 0:30:04.360 --> 0:30:07.280 get you know, at Augusta we get a very strategic setup, 0:30:08.400 --> 0:30:10.640 and the Open for the most part, we get one 0:30:10.880 --> 0:30:13.200 as well. You know, do you see do you think 0:30:13.280 --> 0:30:16.560 there's you know, like everything like golf architecture there. It's 0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:19.280 great to have variety within the design. Do you think 0:30:19.600 --> 0:30:23.120 do you think having variety in the Championship setups is good? 0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:25.320 Or do you do you feel like, you know, the 0:30:25.440 --> 0:30:28.480 setups should be in a manner which anybody can win, 0:30:30.000 --> 0:30:31.160 any style can win. 0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:38.560 Yeah, I mean it should reward who plays the best 0:30:38.600 --> 0:30:43.880 golf and that includes all paths of golf shots right 0:30:46.680 --> 0:30:51.640 and clearly how to challenge those guys is the subjective argument. 0:30:54.000 --> 0:31:01.080 I'm I really love watching the Open Championship and linked 0:31:01.120 --> 0:31:04.440 golf and watching guys have to think around a golf course. 0:31:06.560 --> 0:31:09.760 I like when the wind can suddenly shift and not 0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:14.040 everything is a manicured surface. You're you're having to go 0:31:14.080 --> 0:31:17.520 around and play around of golf and the conditions that 0:31:17.560 --> 0:31:23.920 are presented to you that day. It's you know, as 0:31:23.960 --> 0:31:28.120 far as the twenty five yards of fairway straight up 0:31:28.160 --> 0:31:32.080 the guts with six inches of rup you know, moan 0:31:32.320 --> 0:31:35.320 fifteen yards off of the fairway, it just becomes so 0:31:36.640 --> 0:31:39.880 repetitive and grinding. You can tell it's a grind to play, 0:31:39.960 --> 0:31:42.960 it's a grind to watch. It's just not a very compelling, 0:31:45.400 --> 0:31:49.240 not a very compelling product on So I don't know 0:31:49.280 --> 0:31:53.040 if that goes into their thinking at all of is 0:31:53.080 --> 0:31:55.960 it fun to watch or not, But that's sort of 0:31:56.160 --> 0:31:57.000 that's how I felt it. 0:31:57.080 --> 0:31:58.000 This year's PGA. 0:31:58.600 --> 0:31:58.800 See. 0:31:59.080 --> 0:32:01.840 One of the other things thought about with it is 0:32:02.000 --> 0:32:07.760 the is the the surrounds of the green also played 0:32:08.040 --> 0:32:13.280 kind of into you know, if it kind of played 0:32:13.320 --> 0:32:16.120 into like hitting it far and not worrying if it 0:32:16.160 --> 0:32:18.239 was in the rough, because there was you know, with 0:32:18.280 --> 0:32:20.680 all the rough around the greens. If you as long 0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:23.120 as you hit it near the green, it was going 0:32:23.200 --> 0:32:24.320 to stop around the green. 0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:31.520 Right, Yeah, there's that, you know. Justin Rose Off the 0:32:31.520 --> 0:32:33.440 back of floor had a bitch of a time from 0:32:33.440 --> 0:32:36.160 behind the green, one of the only plates where they 0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:37.520 had mown down short ground. 0:32:39.160 --> 0:32:41.120 Yeah, that was like the only hole where we saw 0:32:41.280 --> 0:32:43.480 and I mean that that was such a cool hole 0:32:43.520 --> 0:32:48.120 with that green running away on the uphill approach and uh, 0:32:48.200 --> 0:32:50.400 and that's where we saw so many guys end up 0:32:50.480 --> 0:32:52.680 back there and it were rolls away. You know, it's 0:32:52.760 --> 0:32:55.040 like one of the few times we saw people the 0:32:55.040 --> 0:32:58.560 ball rolling away and there is like a discernible difference 0:32:58.600 --> 0:33:01.240 between a great and a good shot. 0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:07.000 Yeah, totally and not you know a lot of guys 0:33:07.120 --> 0:33:09.720 not willing to take the most fun watching those guys 0:33:09.720 --> 0:33:13.000 who aren't willing to take their medicine when there's short 0:33:13.000 --> 0:33:16.080 grass around the greens and and that stuff is really 0:33:16.080 --> 0:33:19.680 compelling to watch when you have a guy get a 0:33:19.680 --> 0:33:21.800 little bit too greedy and then the ball comes right 0:33:21.840 --> 0:33:23.760 back to his seat because he didn't put enough on 0:33:23.840 --> 0:33:27.440 it and instead, you know, four, if you're behind the green, 0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:30.200 just pitch it out to the middle of the green 0:33:30.200 --> 0:33:32.960 and leave yourself a fifteen footer and take your par 0:33:33.160 --> 0:33:37.280 and call it good. And that's the stuff that leaks 0:33:37.320 --> 0:33:39.800 golf does so well, or the Open Championship, because there's 0:33:39.800 --> 0:33:42.640 always an abundance of short grass around the greens and 0:33:42.840 --> 0:33:45.760 you know, the ball can roll out a little further, 0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:48.720 the ball can get stopped on a funky little knob 0:33:49.360 --> 0:33:52.600 behind a funky little knob, you know, whatever, just make 0:33:52.920 --> 0:33:58.680 the recovery and the golf more interesting. You know. The 0:33:58.680 --> 0:34:01.640 one thing, I'll say, the one thing that Brooks has 0:34:01.960 --> 0:34:05.360 talked about in Houston because he's he's the one who's 0:34:05.360 --> 0:34:08.640 sort of like the PGA tour consultants or the pro 0:34:08.800 --> 0:34:12.600 consultants down there. And I haven't spent time with him, 0:34:12.600 --> 0:34:16.520 but his ideas have been relayed down the wire and 0:34:16.600 --> 0:34:19.480 he says they're challenged the most by awkward stances and 0:34:19.600 --> 0:34:24.319 rough around the green, or at least he is. So 0:34:24.440 --> 0:34:28.200 I think there's room for that. I think the problem 0:34:28.640 --> 0:34:31.319 it poses the bet page is there aren't really that 0:34:31.400 --> 0:34:33.920 many awkward stances. You know, if your ball's in the rough, 0:34:34.000 --> 0:34:36.480 you usually have a pretty level lie or up to 0:34:36.680 --> 0:34:38.680 lie in the rough. You know that there aren't many 0:34:38.719 --> 0:34:42.640 places where you're totally sideways trying to pitch out. But 0:34:44.840 --> 0:34:47.759 that is the one thing that he's talked about that 0:34:47.880 --> 0:34:51.880 does give them fits. And and maybe it's a combination 0:34:52.000 --> 0:34:55.560 of you've got to you know, ten yards or short 0:34:55.560 --> 0:34:57.560 grats around the green to let the ball get away, 0:34:57.560 --> 0:34:59.719 but then it gets into rough and some awkward lines 0:34:59.760 --> 0:35:02.640 in the and that the way to give those guys 0:35:02.640 --> 0:35:04.680 a little bit more of a challenge around the green. 0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:08.240 One of the things I always think about with pros 0:35:08.320 --> 0:35:10.799 and I I don't know if you have a good 0:35:10.840 --> 0:35:14.160 idea for this, but like my one of the things 0:35:14.200 --> 0:35:17.240 I always think about is like what makes a PGA 0:35:17.320 --> 0:35:20.000 What makes most PGA tour players. One of the things 0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:25.200 that's like is they're irrationally confident. You know, they're like 0:35:25.239 --> 0:35:27.799 a great They're all almost for the most part, like 0:35:27.880 --> 0:35:30.880 great three point shooters in the NBA, where it doesn't 0:35:30.920 --> 0:35:34.120 matter if they've missed the last ten. They like, you know, 0:35:34.160 --> 0:35:36.520 they're gonna pull the trigger, and they like with the 0:35:36.560 --> 0:35:41.399 same confidence every time. So something like that I think 0:35:41.400 --> 0:35:45.280 about a lot is the ability. 0:35:44.680 --> 0:35:46.520 To kind of trick them. 0:35:46.960 --> 0:35:49.960 You can't trick the pros when they're in the rough 0:35:50.040 --> 0:35:52.400 because like they they get they're in the rough and 0:35:52.440 --> 0:35:55.680 they get more cautious and and they're very they're actually 0:35:55.880 --> 0:35:59.920 extremely cautious players. You know, the best golfers are like 0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:02.640 you said, with Brooks, he's always missing in the right spots. 0:36:03.040 --> 0:36:07.360 He's because he's he's cautious. But if you're on short grass, 0:36:08.520 --> 0:36:12.319 they they then go into they kind of flip into 0:36:12.600 --> 0:36:19.279 irrational confidence mode. Right, Yeah, so like that, that to 0:36:19.400 --> 0:36:23.960 me is one area where I have I think Shinnakok 0:36:24.080 --> 0:36:24.680 did it well. 0:36:24.920 --> 0:36:30.200 Does that well? Where you know it is terrifying. 0:36:30.360 --> 0:36:33.600 But because they're in the fair way, they they think 0:36:33.640 --> 0:36:35.440 they can hit any shot, right. 0:36:37.920 --> 0:36:40.960 Yeah, just blindly believing that based on the cut of 0:36:41.040 --> 0:36:43.799 grass rather than thinking about the golf hole and the 0:36:43.800 --> 0:36:45.120 strategy of that golf hole. 0:36:45.880 --> 0:36:46.239 Mm hmm. 0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:49.520 And we we saw that too, because like you know, 0:36:49.520 --> 0:36:54.120 if you put water next to the green, they're gonna 0:36:54.120 --> 0:36:56.600 all play away from it all day long to the 0:36:56.640 --> 0:36:57.400 safe side. 0:36:58.280 --> 0:37:00.560 But if if you get a bunker and. 0:37:00.560 --> 0:37:05.000 Contours like some of the holes at Shinnacok, they're going 0:37:05.080 --> 0:37:07.200 to hit it into the bunker because they're going to 0:37:07.280 --> 0:37:10.480 get more aggressive because it's not water, they don't and 0:37:10.520 --> 0:37:13.640 that green can run away and they could be the 0:37:13.640 --> 0:37:15.879 worst spot than if you hid it in the water 0:37:16.000 --> 0:37:20.480 almost and yeah, and they you know, then they get 0:37:20.520 --> 0:37:23.440 frustrated because they can't you know, hole the green or 0:37:23.480 --> 0:37:24.640 whatever from that bunker. 0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:33.720 Yeah, that's that's the problem. They're too they're too quick 0:37:33.840 --> 0:37:37.800 to hate something about understanding the reason why and how, 0:37:40.040 --> 0:37:42.359 and they've got a platform to speak up about it 0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:46.920 cause change really quickly, which is also frustrating from an 0:37:47.000 --> 0:37:51.320 architecture point of view, where you'd rather have a discussion 0:37:51.400 --> 0:37:54.840 about you know the fact that challenging you in a 0:37:54.920 --> 0:37:58.879 good thing, and here's why, and here's you know, here's 0:37:58.920 --> 0:38:00.680 what you've been given to play away from it. You 0:38:00.760 --> 0:38:03.839 chose not to and you got stuckered into playing over there. 0:38:04.040 --> 0:38:05.520 Sorry next time, don't. 0:38:07.640 --> 0:38:08.719 It was interesting I had that. 0:38:09.239 --> 0:38:12.040 I had the economist on Ian Fillmore, who wasn't a 0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:14.800 golfer at all, but he kind of he talked about 0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:19.640 the technology change and the new breed golfer and and 0:38:19.680 --> 0:38:23.120 how he kind of believed it was on architects to 0:38:23.320 --> 0:38:26.759 make the next move. But you know, like you just 0:38:26.880 --> 0:38:29.319 kind of hit on, like to a certain extent. If 0:38:29.320 --> 0:38:33.200 the architects make a move and do something unique and different, 0:38:33.800 --> 0:38:38.080 then there's there's backlash and and in some cases, you know, 0:38:38.160 --> 0:38:40.359 the changes get remade to it. 0:38:42.800 --> 0:38:45.880 Yeah, what's the course? Uh Gill tried to do something 0:38:45.920 --> 0:38:52.600 on Boston. Who at Boston. Yeah, it's a great example, 0:38:52.719 --> 0:38:55.399 and honestly, I think it's I think the locker room 0:38:55.400 --> 0:38:58.240 at PGA tour events is probably like a middle school 0:38:58.320 --> 0:39:02.640 girl girls' locker room where one guy hates something and 0:39:02.680 --> 0:39:07.360 sees something and it spreads like wildfire until everybody's infected. 0:39:07.600 --> 0:39:10.000 And you know, even though they may not have even 0:39:10.080 --> 0:39:15.759 seen it, they hate it, and it's it's it's just 0:39:15.840 --> 0:39:19.320 hard to it's hard to, like you said, introduce something 0:39:19.400 --> 0:39:22.399 new or try to challenge them in a different way 0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:26.160 than they're used to and and have an open conversation 0:39:26.280 --> 0:39:29.480 about why it's good or how it worked or did 0:39:29.480 --> 0:39:32.200 it not work? And ultimately that's the problem with all 0:39:32.280 --> 0:39:37.360 subjective conversations. But there's there's got to be something that 0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:39.000 something that we can try. 0:39:39.560 --> 0:39:43.240 What have you watched any of the Trinity for Forest 0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:44.800 uh coverage? 0:39:46.760 --> 0:39:46.960 Yeah? 0:39:47.000 --> 0:39:53.080 I watched a bit of it. Yeah, what what's what? 0:39:53.080 --> 0:39:54.680 What's picking your mind about that place? 0:39:54.880 --> 0:39:56.360 I've just what did what did you think of? 0:39:56.520 --> 0:39:59.840 Obviously, like I feel the thing that always gets me, 0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:03.000 it's like par I think is one of the big issues. 0:40:03.000 --> 0:40:05.440 Like and everybody's like, oh, it's so easy out of 0:40:05.520 --> 0:40:09.319 Trinity Forest, but I think we always see somebody like 0:40:09.480 --> 0:40:14.120 separate and in that place really rewards great play, you know, 0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:17.279 and if you let go of scoring, you know, I 0:40:17.560 --> 0:40:20.719 don't know what are your thoughts on Triny forrest and 0:40:20.840 --> 0:40:23.600 scoring and and what you saw from the stuff you 0:40:23.640 --> 0:40:24.400 watched out there. 0:40:26.520 --> 0:40:29.960 Yeah, I think it's Teta Green. It's not a hard 0:40:30.040 --> 0:40:34.200 golf course, but that is set up in a way 0:40:34.239 --> 0:40:38.520 where there's short grass around the greens, and that's the 0:40:38.600 --> 0:40:42.200 stuff that challenges those guys. You've got to have restraints 0:40:42.200 --> 0:40:45.240 to missing the right spot, and even though the fairways 0:40:45.239 --> 0:40:48.640 are wide and you may have hit the fairway, you 0:40:48.760 --> 0:40:55.239 probably can't attack certain pins on certain days. So that's 0:40:55.280 --> 0:40:58.320 what I really like about that challenge of the golf course. 0:40:58.760 --> 0:41:00.959 Like you said that, everybody it's up in arms because 0:41:00.960 --> 0:41:06.240 the winning score is twenty under, but you know who, 0:41:06.800 --> 0:41:09.279 if the par is two less there or one less there, 0:41:09.320 --> 0:41:13.759 then it's suddenly twelve or sixteen and nobody's complaining at all. 0:41:16.960 --> 0:41:21.399 So I think Trinity Forest is a it's a really 0:41:21.400 --> 0:41:23.799 compelling golf course and you certainly got to think your 0:41:23.800 --> 0:41:26.000 way around it and know where to miss, which again, 0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:30.120 if you saw any of Brooks's coverage, he hardly ever 0:41:30.200 --> 0:41:36.080 missed in the wrong spot there either, which gave himself 0:41:36.080 --> 0:41:36.560 a chance. 0:41:37.440 --> 0:41:39.880 What with with Trinity. 0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:45.640 And par like, do you ever think we're going to 0:41:45.680 --> 0:41:47.480 get to the point where somebody just says that, hey, 0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:51.600 this is a par sixty eight. I hope. 0:41:51.640 --> 0:41:57.480 So I don't know if it would. I don't know 0:41:57.600 --> 0:42:01.560 who will do that. If there would one PGA, like 0:42:01.600 --> 0:42:03.680 a PGA Tour event that says this is the par 0:42:03.800 --> 0:42:04.319 sixty eight. 0:42:05.480 --> 0:42:08.040 Yeah, like a Trinity might be a perfect example. I 0:42:08.040 --> 0:42:11.000 think it's par seventy one. What if they just said, hey, 0:42:11.120 --> 0:42:13.279 we're gonna be par sixty nine and the only par 0:42:13.440 --> 0:42:16.960 five next year is the uh is the fourteenth? 0:42:17.000 --> 0:42:19.319 That like six hundred yarder up the hill? 0:42:21.200 --> 0:42:22.880 Right? Yeah, that'd be great. 0:42:22.960 --> 0:42:24.000 I'd love to see that. 0:42:26.239 --> 0:42:30.319 Just to start, just to break the wheel. 0:42:29.960 --> 0:42:30.520 A little bit. 0:42:32.400 --> 0:42:35.880 And I, you know, I don't know if any I 0:42:35.880 --> 0:42:38.160 would think something like that would start at you know, 0:42:38.280 --> 0:42:42.279 say US Women Senior Am and I don't know if 0:42:42.320 --> 0:42:44.400 any of those tournaments had ever been hosted as a 0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:50.600 par sixty eight or sixty nine, but that would be 0:42:50.880 --> 0:42:52.960 you know, that would be a good place to test 0:42:52.960 --> 0:43:02.440 it out and bring it into into further further tournaments. 0:43:02.600 --> 0:43:05.040 I I have a hard time believing the PGH or 0:43:05.080 --> 0:43:07.120 whatever do it, but I think it would be awesome 0:43:07.160 --> 0:43:07.640 to watch. 0:43:08.200 --> 0:43:10.360 Well you think about it, so like out at Trinity 0:43:10.480 --> 0:43:14.320 one and uh, one and seven are power fives on 0:43:14.360 --> 0:43:17.200 the front nine, and uh I looked at the numbers 0:43:17.200 --> 0:43:21.400 for seven, and you know, nobody, nobody who hit a 0:43:21.400 --> 0:43:24.799 good drive wasn't going for it in two, And the 0:43:24.880 --> 0:43:28.279 same with you know one, Guys are hitting you know, 0:43:28.520 --> 0:43:31.719 short irons into it sometimes some days. So it's like, 0:43:32.560 --> 0:43:35.840 you know, what wasn't there you know some writing about 0:43:36.200 --> 0:43:38.600 back in the day about what a par five constitutes 0:43:38.600 --> 0:43:39.160 a par five? 0:43:43.040 --> 0:43:46.000 I'm sure there was one specific, no. 0:43:46.360 --> 0:43:48.200 Just in general, like it would be like, you know, 0:43:48.280 --> 0:43:51.799 three well struck golf shots right would get you know, 0:43:52.760 --> 0:43:54.880 it's like that's like the way to play it. So 0:43:55.040 --> 0:43:57.560 like if that's the if, if we're applying this to 0:43:57.640 --> 0:44:00.880 the PGA Tour, you know, like shouldn't applied to the 0:44:00.920 --> 0:44:05.280 PGA Tour differently than Joe Schmoe golfer. 0:44:08.000 --> 0:44:12.400 Perhaps, aren't aren't they? Like aren't they trying to not 0:44:12.640 --> 0:44:13.640 go down that road? 0:44:13.719 --> 0:44:14.600 Though? Contend? 0:44:14.920 --> 0:44:17.640 Is it that a delippery slope towards any type of 0:44:17.840 --> 0:44:19.279 five ucation talk? 0:44:20.880 --> 0:44:23.480 But that's the thing I always like think about, is 0:44:23.520 --> 0:44:27.600 like they you know, like Brooks Kopka couldn't be further. 0:44:27.760 --> 0:44:31.399 I mean, if you if say the regular guy hits 0:44:31.440 --> 0:44:34.719 at two thirty, brooks Kopka hits it three twenty. You know, 0:44:34.719 --> 0:44:37.520 how can you even compare them with the same you know. 0:44:37.719 --> 0:44:38.040 Par. 0:44:40.760 --> 0:44:43.600 Yeah, yeah, I get your point. 0:44:44.960 --> 0:44:48.640 I don't know, it's it's it's a it's a tricky 0:44:48.680 --> 0:44:51.680 situation because like I think that what technology has done 0:44:51.800 --> 0:44:56.080 is is it's gotten golf even further away from you know, 0:44:56.120 --> 0:44:58.000 the greats and the average guy. 0:45:00.760 --> 0:45:06.879 Yeah, that's a whole it's a it's a conversation that's 0:45:06.920 --> 0:45:10.520 not dissimilar from any like wealthy quality conversation you have, 0:45:10.680 --> 0:45:14.600 which is totally not meant for this podcast. But yeah, 0:45:14.840 --> 0:45:18.240 like you, you do things to try to make things 0:45:18.280 --> 0:45:21.280 more equal, and what you've ended up doing is furthering 0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:28.200 the gap, whether consciously or or unconsciously, you know, which, 0:45:28.320 --> 0:45:32.560 like you said, that's what rough does to these long tournaments. 0:45:32.600 --> 0:45:35.799 Maybe that's what car is doing to the average player, 0:45:35.880 --> 0:45:42.600 the professional So a way to you know, like you're 0:45:42.640 --> 0:45:46.680 talking about trying to figure out a way to even 0:45:46.719 --> 0:45:48.359 the playing field a bit, would you say? 0:45:49.320 --> 0:45:49.880 Not even? 0:45:50.040 --> 0:45:53.479 But you know, like how because people complain when there's 0:45:53.560 --> 0:45:58.239 width that it becomes too easy, right, That's that's what 0:45:58.280 --> 0:46:01.480 Then when there's when if we have with then it's 0:46:01.520 --> 0:46:03.280 too easy because of the scores. 0:46:03.320 --> 0:46:05.359 They're shooting to par. 0:46:08.800 --> 0:46:14.040 And that's the hardest. It's so hard talking to clop 0:46:14.520 --> 0:46:18.839 or for anybody that is like you're trying to evangelize 0:46:18.880 --> 0:46:21.680 them into a new way to think about golf course architecture, 0:46:21.960 --> 0:46:25.600 and it's the wi conversation that's tough. 0:46:25.680 --> 0:46:27.440 It's and it's like I. 0:46:27.440 --> 0:46:29.960 Remember Brian Schneider was working at a club within the 0:46:29.960 --> 0:46:35.520 Northeast and the better players were sort of against the restoration, 0:46:35.840 --> 0:46:40.040 and the restoration took you know, a group of seven 0:46:41.640 --> 0:46:44.839 high handicappers, and then a year after the restoration was done, 0:46:45.120 --> 0:46:48.759 had found out that the high and mid handicappers handicaps 0:46:48.760 --> 0:46:52.880 had gone down one or two and the scratch conference 0:46:52.960 --> 0:46:58.160 had stayed the same or even gotten a little higher themselves. 0:46:58.880 --> 0:47:01.680 So you went back to him with this information of 0:47:01.800 --> 0:47:04.279 like remember all that talk about how with was wit 0:47:04.520 --> 0:47:06.480 was going to make the golf course easier and taking 0:47:06.520 --> 0:47:08.560 trees down, it's going to make the golf course easier, 0:47:09.040 --> 0:47:14.759 And there's like qualitative evidence towards the contrary. Yet they 0:47:15.160 --> 0:47:19.560 still didn't even accept that. So I don't know, you know, 0:47:19.719 --> 0:47:23.200 I don't I think that's the same issue that you 0:47:23.239 --> 0:47:25.040 would have on with larger scales. 0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:26.359 Talking about the DGA. 0:47:26.160 --> 0:47:30.120 Tour, it's just so hard to convince people that you know, 0:47:30.719 --> 0:47:33.760 adding with is not going to make the golf course easier, 0:47:33.840 --> 0:47:37.239 even with evidence right in front of them. 0:47:37.440 --> 0:47:37.720 Yeah. 0:47:38.520 --> 0:47:41.720 Yeah, because then because then with presents a different option 0:47:42.120 --> 0:47:46.120 or a different difficulty. Then it's like picking your line 0:47:47.520 --> 0:47:52.280 becomes part of the So I don't know, we're preaching 0:47:52.320 --> 0:47:55.319 to the gospel here, it's not. 0:47:57.120 --> 0:48:00.000 I think that's not the right way to go about it. 0:48:00.120 --> 0:48:02.479 To work in cohesion with what you're doing at the green, 0:48:05.000 --> 0:48:07.080 what you're doing to the entire golf pool. You can't 0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:12.080 just start mowing random fairways wider and expecting that to 0:48:12.239 --> 0:48:15.680 be the light bulb moment. It's got to be a 0:48:15.719 --> 0:48:18.520 well thought out. You've got to know when and where 0:48:18.560 --> 0:48:21.160 to get wider relative to what's happening at the green 0:48:21.200 --> 0:48:23.600 and what you're doing at the green, whether you're adding 0:48:23.680 --> 0:48:27.319 short grass to one side or you know, adding short 0:48:27.320 --> 0:48:32.799 grass all around it. Just yeah, it's got to be 0:48:33.360 --> 0:48:35.560 it's gotta be a little more well thought out too. 0:48:36.400 --> 0:48:41.799 Yeah. Yeah, this, uh, this has been good. I know 0:48:41.840 --> 0:48:42.839 you've got a busy day. 0:48:42.920 --> 0:48:47.320 You're the life of a young architect, you're just checking 0:48:47.360 --> 0:48:48.360 out golf courses. 0:48:50.239 --> 0:48:54.719 I know, I'm well, I just got done. So Eric Iverson, 0:48:54.920 --> 0:48:59.120 one of senior associates he worked, did a little work 0:48:59.160 --> 0:49:01.520 on his own, and I just went and thought for 0:49:01.560 --> 0:49:04.000 the first time. Of course, he had done about twenty 0:49:04.040 --> 0:49:07.520 miles north of Omaha and Blair, Nebraska. He added like 0:49:07.640 --> 0:49:10.160 nine or ten holes, and they're really good. I'll send 0:49:10.160 --> 0:49:14.120 you some pictures. The holes he added are great, and 0:49:14.160 --> 0:49:16.960 it's it's one of those things it's like, yeah, it 0:49:16.960 --> 0:49:19.440 could be wider, and the greens could be mown out 0:49:19.520 --> 0:49:22.400 to where the original pad is. They've done a pretty 0:49:22.400 --> 0:49:24.840 good job of keeping the green is pretty big. So 0:49:24.880 --> 0:49:27.040 it was really I was glad to find out that 0:49:27.080 --> 0:49:30.560 there's some good public golf somewhere around Omaha, because we 0:49:30.600 --> 0:49:35.440 don't have much of it. And now I've got. Yeah, 0:49:35.480 --> 0:49:40.160 it's called River Wild in and it's in Blair, Nebraska. 0:49:40.360 --> 0:49:42.400 And the holes that he did. 0:49:42.880 --> 0:49:44.919 It's different than what I've seen from any of these 0:49:44.960 --> 0:49:51.000 smaller parld courses where the nine he added was interspersed 0:49:51.000 --> 0:49:54.200 with the original nine rather than just tacking nine more 0:49:54.239 --> 0:49:58.600 holes onto an adjacent property. So it's kind of interesting. 0:49:58.719 --> 0:50:01.800 He added a couple Green did some of the existing 0:50:01.880 --> 0:50:06.600 corridors and then added seven or eighty two holes, so 0:50:06.640 --> 0:50:08.640 it's done in a different way than most. 0:50:08.520 --> 0:50:09.319 Others around here. 0:50:09.400 --> 0:50:14.880 Too interesting, That's that's neat. Yeah, that's h I got it. 0:50:14.920 --> 0:50:17.920 We're I think I'm gonna do a big Nebraska trip 0:50:18.440 --> 0:50:23.719 for end of end of June, so maybe i'll get 0:50:23.719 --> 0:50:25.520 it added to the itinerary. 0:50:27.480 --> 0:50:31.319 Yeah, don't you know if you're coming through Omaha, it'd 0:50:31.360 --> 0:50:33.040 be a place I got around into. 0:50:37.280 --> 0:50:37.760 Mm hmmm. 0:50:38.080 --> 0:50:43.120 So uh with the last question, what uh so Pebble, 0:50:43.320 --> 0:50:47.319 we're gonna we're gonna have similar thick, rough, narrow fairways, 0:50:48.320 --> 0:50:51.080 but you know it's a much shorter golf course. 0:50:51.440 --> 0:50:54.920 Would you expect the long hitters to thrive again? 0:50:55.160 --> 0:51:00.760 Or do you think we're gonna see more variety? 0:51:01.480 --> 0:51:05.320 I think you'll see more variety. It's based on the link. 0:51:05.840 --> 0:51:09.719 But they're really small greens too at Pebble. I think 0:51:09.760 --> 0:51:11.840 the greens at that page were quite a bit bigger. 0:51:14.280 --> 0:51:17.560 So I'll be curious to see how that affects the guys. 0:51:17.600 --> 0:51:20.240 You know, maybe somebody who has a really good short 0:51:20.239 --> 0:51:21.040 game around. 0:51:20.800 --> 0:51:31.600 Green will do well, Hey, you just broke your. 0:51:32.239 --> 0:51:33.120 Gonna be a bomber. 0:51:34.000 --> 0:51:38.160 Sorry where just you talked about short game and then 0:51:38.200 --> 0:51:38.840 that's where. 0:51:38.640 --> 0:51:39.200 He broke up. 0:51:41.040 --> 0:51:45.080 Oh yeah, just I think somebody with a short game 0:51:45.120 --> 0:51:48.600 in recovery. You know, I don't know how many greens 0:51:48.600 --> 0:51:51.120 and regulations people will hit. I'm sure it'll be less 0:51:51.120 --> 0:51:56.040 than whatever it was. So then yeah, who's got a 0:51:56.040 --> 0:51:58.520 good wedge game out of the rough? I mean, do 0:51:58.560 --> 0:52:00.919 you see it being the bomb and guy like well 0:52:00.920 --> 0:52:03.960 Brooks take driver off every t I can't imagine that. 0:52:04.440 --> 0:52:06.760 You know, there's so many places he can't even hit driver. 0:52:07.160 --> 0:52:09.680 You know, like you think like one's not a driver hole, 0:52:11.480 --> 0:52:14.400 eight's not a driver hole, six is in a driver hole, 0:52:14.800 --> 0:52:18.560 four is in a driver hole. So you start to 0:52:18.600 --> 0:52:21.160 think about all the holes that aren't driver holes. You know, 0:52:21.760 --> 0:52:25.439 even like fifteen and sixteen aren't driver holes. So you're 0:52:25.440 --> 0:52:29.880 going to see I think it takes. It's gonna it's interesting. 0:52:30.080 --> 0:52:34.319 Obviously they're narrowing the fairways because of par You know 0:52:34.560 --> 0:52:37.799 that you can't tell me any any other reason for 0:52:37.920 --> 0:52:44.200 narrowing them. But I think that we will see a 0:52:44.200 --> 0:52:47.399 a much wider range of players. I think you're you're 0:52:48.239 --> 0:52:51.600 I think the big thing is where it's not going 0:52:51.680 --> 0:52:56.000 to be a forty yard discrepancy between your shorter hitters 0:52:56.040 --> 0:52:58.920 and brooks every hole and and all of a sudden, 0:52:58.960 --> 0:53:01.840 then that makes up for the long rough. Like you know, 0:53:01.920 --> 0:53:05.320 if they're both playing from one hundred and fifty yards 0:53:05.320 --> 0:53:07.640 from the rough, it's a lot more equal than if 0:53:07.680 --> 0:53:10.200 one guy is one fifty and the other guys you know, 0:53:10.280 --> 0:53:15.920 one ninety. Yeah, very true, but I'd rather see it wide, 0:53:16.080 --> 0:53:18.200 you know, obviously. 0:53:18.120 --> 0:53:24.239 But it's just so weird when the bunkers are on 0:53:24.320 --> 0:53:30.000 an island of rough, you know, original bunkers. What's really 0:53:30.040 --> 0:53:32.480 scary is like what they've started doing at Riviera is 0:53:32.480 --> 0:53:35.480 when they start moving the bunkers to match these professional 0:53:35.600 --> 0:53:40.640 golf fairly lines and many start changing the architecture as 0:53:40.640 --> 0:53:44.400 a golf course place for everybody, which is very prostrating. 0:53:45.120 --> 0:53:46.839 Yeah, yeah, there's the. 0:53:49.840 --> 0:53:58.360 It's retrofitting golf for the absolute smallest percentage of golfers. 0:53:58.560 --> 0:54:02.960 Yeah, yeah, exactly. You end up windening that that gap 0:54:03.040 --> 0:54:08.600 even further. And Riviera is the most private and private club, 0:54:08.680 --> 0:54:11.800 so they're they're not comparable to that paid or anything 0:54:11.840 --> 0:54:12.200 like that. 0:54:12.400 --> 0:54:16.960 But it's it's so funny because I played Old Elm 0:54:17.160 --> 0:54:22.640 with Zach Blair the other day and yeah, like it's 0:54:23.000 --> 0:54:25.960 you know, he was playing, we're playing, and and the 0:54:26.040 --> 0:54:29.399 thing we're talking about when we're going around we could 0:54:29.440 --> 0:54:31.959 you know, it's all the fallaway greens that we kept 0:54:31.960 --> 0:54:35.120 finding our shots just trickling off the green, you know. 0:54:35.480 --> 0:54:38.319 And that to me, that's like a perfect example of 0:54:38.360 --> 0:54:42.880 something that that the the eighteen handicap isn't going to notice. 0:54:43.480 --> 0:54:47.439 But like if I catch a iron just a hair thin, 0:54:48.400 --> 0:54:51.239 it's the difference between having ten feet for birdie and 0:54:51.320 --> 0:54:52.840 chipping back up the green. 0:54:54.920 --> 0:55:00.719 Yeah. Yeah, And the fact that every green out there 0:55:00.880 --> 0:55:03.480 crown and old elm. I mean I felt like a 0:55:03.560 --> 0:55:07.839 ton of those greens crown, which that'll do, Like that's 0:55:07.840 --> 0:55:09.719 what doesn't. 0:55:09.360 --> 0:55:11.600 A lot of them were, I mean a lot of 0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:12.000 them are. 0:55:12.040 --> 0:55:15.160 But then they have a lot of fallaway greens too, 0:55:15.320 --> 0:55:18.520 you know, where it just moves with the natural movement 0:55:18.520 --> 0:55:19.120 of the ground. 0:55:19.520 --> 0:55:22.120 Blake, thanks for coming on you. 0:55:22.800 --> 0:55:27.480 Everybody can find you on Twitter at Dundee Golf. You're 0:55:27.760 --> 0:55:33.239 working with Renaissance as a shaper and trying to do 0:55:33.600 --> 0:55:36.720 some of your own work I imagine in the near future. 0:55:38.800 --> 0:55:44.120 Yeah, yeah, definitely, just trying to find opportunities and make. 0:55:43.880 --> 0:55:45.000 Golf a little bit better. 0:55:46.080 --> 0:55:49.560 Yeah, so we'll uh well, we'll have you on again. 0:55:50.600 --> 0:55:52.600 One of these days we're going to actually talk about 0:55:52.760 --> 0:55:55.520 your life, you know, instead of just random times. 0:55:57.719 --> 0:55:59.560 I like talking about golf better. 0:55:59.360 --> 0:56:04.600 Anyway, So thanks for coming on and enjoy the rest 0:56:04.600 --> 0:56:07.160 of the day road tripping and the sand hills. 0:56:10.440 --> 0:56:13.640 You've been listening to the fried Egg podcast. We do 0:56:13.760 --> 0:56:14.920 the digging for you.