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Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of The Warning, and I'm thrilled

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Speaker 1: today to be joined by Paul Raikoff, who is President

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Speaker 1: of the Independent Veterans of America. Paul is a well

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Speaker 1: known and outspoken leader of this generation of veterans who

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Speaker 1: fought in the Iraq and Afghanistan. Wore somebody that I

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Speaker 1: deeply admire, and I'm thrilled to have him here today.

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Speaker 1: And I guess to start out, there's a good chance

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Speaker 1: we could be in the same cell block in political

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Speaker 1: prison together, right if they keep the rs and the

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Speaker 1: esses together alphabetically, so we may be seeing more of

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Speaker 1: each other soon.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, wild times, man, wild times. I mean, I hope not,

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Speaker 2: but it's definitely a time where critics are going to

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Speaker 2: be under fire and facing all kinds of headwinds we've

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Speaker 2: never seen before. Just one correction, I hadn't served in Afghanistan,

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Speaker 2: just a rock. But a lot of the last couple

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Speaker 2: of months has felt like all those things and then

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Speaker 2: some Right, I mean, we're in a new normal. And

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Speaker 2: your show is called The Warning. I think that's the

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Speaker 2: appropriate title for the times we're living in and what's

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Speaker 2: happening right now. And a lot of folks are ready to,

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Speaker 2: you know, focus on the holidays and take a break

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Speaker 2: or lick their wounds or just go to ground. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is a time where we need to be especially

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Speaker 2: vigilant and stick together wherever we can. So yeah, I

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Speaker 2: hope we're not in getm together. But who knows what

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Speaker 2: the next couple of months is going to look like.

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Speaker 2: For anybody who's a critic of the president elect.

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Speaker 1: It's jerking around with a friend of mine, I said.

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Speaker 1: The difference between political prison and regular prison is generally speaking,

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Speaker 1: in so far as I can tell, right, it's not experiential.

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Speaker 1: But if you get a regular prison, right, your worst

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Speaker 1: day is your first day, right, and then it starts

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Speaker 1: to get better.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So the Menendez brothers, for example, right, they are involved

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Speaker 1: in prison government, and one of them is a meditation tee.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 1: Political prison, on the other hand, tends to be a

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Speaker 1: situation where your best day is your first day and

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Speaker 1: then it deteriorates from there. So we'll have to we'll

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Speaker 1: have to wait and see, apparently, And I want to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about this in a in a serious manner.

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Speaker 2: When you.

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Speaker 1: Think about the great quotations and the phrases, right that

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Speaker 1: are part of our daily ritual, like I pledge allegiance

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Speaker 1: to the flag, right, or is I pledge allegius in

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Speaker 1: a flag?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: It's like it's one, it's one blur.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: These these words don't don't really have an impact. Right.

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Speaker 1: And so when you think about people who have had

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Speaker 1: enormous impacts in adjacent moments in time, Franklin Roosevelt time

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Speaker 1: of real panic. You think about Franklin Roosevelt taking command

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Speaker 1: as commander in chief, twenty five percent of the country

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Speaker 1: is unemployed, and he sat down, he wrote the speech himself.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't the phalanx of speech writers. He had a

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Speaker 1: couple of people. But like any time you go out

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Speaker 1: you say anything, right, you have military experience, you've commanded men,

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Speaker 1: you've commanded men in combat. You have to think about

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Speaker 1: what the first thing you're going to say is right?

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Speaker 1: But what am I going to lead off with here?

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Speaker 1: And for FDR was the only thing we have to

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Speaker 1: fear is fear itself. You look in nineteen eighty one,

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Speaker 1: new pope comes to be in nineteen seventy nine, and

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Speaker 1: you know, for all the younger folks out there kind

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Speaker 1: of forget what the pope John Paul was like when

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Speaker 1: he first became pope. Right, this guy was movie star

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Speaker 1: good looking, he was really young, and he goes to

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Speaker 1: Warsaw at the height of Soviet dominance in the era

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Speaker 1: of solidarity, and he goes to a square in front

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Speaker 1: of a million people, and he says, do not be afraid.

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Speaker 2: And so.

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Speaker 1: You look in this moment, justin Trudeau, Trump lays out

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Speaker 1: the tariff. He jackasses down Tomorrow Lago to do the capitulation.

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Speaker 1: A couple of weeks later, his government is going to

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Speaker 1: fall as it should. Joe Scarborough Mika Brazinski, I think

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Speaker 1: the most brutally obvious of the examples out of corporate

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Speaker 1: media going down there and then justifying the capitulation. ABC

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Speaker 1: News Disney imposing a settlement on George Stephanopolis and on

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Speaker 1: the news division on a suit that they surely would

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Speaker 1: have won. Jeff Bezos at the Washington Post, Patrick Schong

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Speaker 1: at the La Times. So we're thirty four days out

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Speaker 1: from him taking power and whatever the first line of

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Speaker 1: resistance is going to be, it's that way we're retreating, right.

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Speaker 1: The opposition is disorganized, it is flat on its back.

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Speaker 1: It is completely delusional. I'm reading stories about is Kamala

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Speaker 1: Harris going to run for president again next or is

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Speaker 1: she going to be governor of California or maybe both

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Speaker 1: at once? Who knows? And I just how do you

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Speaker 1: process this moment thirty four days out as Trump appears

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Speaker 1: before the national media and basically says, well, I got

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Speaker 1: you tamed. They all nod back at him, and you

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Speaker 1: got to keep being nice. Gotta be nice, nice to Trump?

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Speaker 1: How do you assess the strategic landscape politically?

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Speaker 2: So we went from the Menendez brothers to the Pope

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Speaker 2: to Joe Scarborough and everything right and.

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Speaker 1: Maybe not afraid being the key themat.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I think the question is the right one because

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Speaker 2: one of my great mentors was a guy named lescal

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Speaker 2: who ran the Council on Foreign Relations, and he used

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Speaker 2: to say, strategy is hard. Most people can't do strategy.

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Speaker 2: And I think what you see right now is a

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Speaker 2: landscape that looks like an evolving battlefield, right, And you've

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Speaker 2: got a force that's on the offensive and it is

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Speaker 2: taking ground and got momentum and got energy, and you've

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Speaker 2: got a fragmented, disorganized, demoralized opposition and series of oppositions.

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Speaker 2: And I think for me, I go back to being

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Speaker 2: a dad, right, And when I send my boys off

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Speaker 2: to school, we have little sayings every day. I got

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Speaker 2: two little boys, they're nine and five, and we say

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Speaker 2: strong of body, strong of heart, strong of mind. Right,

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Speaker 2: And that's how I kind of steal them to think

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Speaker 2: about how they can be empowered to take on whatever

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Speaker 2: is going to come at their day. And I make

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Speaker 2: the brothers look at each other, tell them they love them,

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Speaker 2: and they go in together, right. And every day they're

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Speaker 2: going into the unknown in New York City public school.

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Speaker 2: But when my nine year old was a kindergartener, he

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Speaker 2: was going into COVID with a mask and a temperature

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Speaker 2: check and I couldn't even go in the room, right.

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Speaker 2: So I kind of bring it all back to that, Steve,

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Speaker 2: because I think the most important thing for people, especially Democrats,

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Speaker 2: to understand is it's on. It's been on for years

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Speaker 2: and now it's fully unfolding. And for these folks that

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Speaker 2: are licking their wounds or they're you know, doing with

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Speaker 2: what Democrats love to do, which is like a lot

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Speaker 2: of listening sessions and roundtables. Trump is pushing his advantage

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Speaker 2: very aggressively right now. He's not taking Christmas off to

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Speaker 2: handout presents to his grandkids, and he's going to try

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Speaker 2: to run up the score. So what's lacking is a

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Speaker 2: strategy to oppose him, right, And I think what's also

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Speaker 2: lacking is a strategic leader. There is no Churchill, there

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Speaker 2: is no FDR, and no one has yet emerged to

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Speaker 2: be that person for the Democrats or for America. And

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Speaker 2: I've been talking to folks as I'm sure you have,

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Speaker 2: who are trying to figure out what to do next

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Speaker 2: to get my read and I say, look, part of

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Speaker 2: it is about betting on leaders, whether you're betting on

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Speaker 2: Steve Schmidt, or you're betting on AOC, or you're betting

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Speaker 2: on Dan Osborne who ran as an independent for Senate

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Speaker 2: in Nebraska and almost one. It's not a time where

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Speaker 2: the existing organizations are nimble, dynamic, or even capable enough

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Speaker 2: to respond to this threat. And I view it as

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Speaker 2: a threat. I still view it as a national security

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Speaker 2: threat more than anything else. And the Trump movement now

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Speaker 2: is very close to having the keys to the entire castle.

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Speaker 2: But none of it is normal, none of it is acceptable,

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Speaker 2: and none of it is inevitable. And what we're lacking

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Speaker 2: because we don't have strategic leaders, and we don't have

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Speaker 2: a national strategy or even enclaves of strategies to oppose him.

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Speaker 2: Is we're lacking priorities, so people don't know where to focus,

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Speaker 2: and that's to Trump's advantage. He wants to overwhelm the zone.

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Speaker 2: He throws hegseth at you right after Gates and here

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Speaker 2: comes Tulca Gabbard and RFK Jr. And nobody's even paying

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Speaker 2: attention to the fact that he nominated a guy for

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Speaker 2: Secretary of the Navy who's never served in the Navy,

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Speaker 2: or that he's got a very radical pick at the

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Speaker 2: Department of Veterans Affairs that's way below the radar and

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Speaker 2: getting no coverage or even oversight. So that the strategy

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Speaker 2: is to overwhelm the country, overwhelm the press, overwhelm the government,

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Speaker 2: and get as much ground as he can so that

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Speaker 2: the midterms become irrelevant. Right people are stacking their chips

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Speaker 2: for the midterms for four years from now. I'm saying

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Speaker 2: it's about the next thirty five days, and right now

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Speaker 2: I think the most urgent priority is hegset because he

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Speaker 2: is the biggest move at the biggest agency in the

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Speaker 2: federal government, and he's not inevitable We saw that with Gates,

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Speaker 2: and I think Hegseth is the same situation. But if

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Speaker 2: you're Trump and you're going for your breaking into the house, okay,

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Speaker 2: whether it was your house or someone else's house, the

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Speaker 2: first thing you go for is the gun closet. You

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Speaker 2: go for the gun closet because it's the most dangerous,

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Speaker 2: it's the most valuable, it's got all the symbolic reasons, right,

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Speaker 2: And he knows that the Pentagon stopped him last time,

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Speaker 2: so he's taken a long shot. He's picking the most political,

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Speaker 2: the most extreme, the most not just unqualified but disqualified

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Speaker 2: person to take over the largest federal agency in the government,

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Speaker 2: not just because it has and the most significant, not

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Speaker 2: just because it has two point seven million employees and

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Speaker 2: a seven hundred billion dollar budget, but because it's the

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Speaker 2: most powerful thing that stopped him last time. Right. So

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Speaker 2: if you want to talk about things like federalizing the

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Speaker 2: National Guard to rip migrant kids out of schools, if

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Speaker 2: you want to talk about owning the military leadership so

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Speaker 2: they don't oppose you when you want to do any

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Speaker 2: number of crazy things, the first thing you do is

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Speaker 2: hit the Pentagon. And that's what he's doing. Pete Hegseth

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Speaker 2: is like a political nuke strike. And if he goes through,

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Speaker 2: which I don't think has got to happen, everything else

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Speaker 2: is easy, right va is cake education, no problem. You

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Speaker 2: can even you know, even if he does go down,

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Speaker 2: you can put up somebody like DeSantis and he sails through.

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Speaker 2: So I really think it's important that people understand that

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Speaker 2: Pete Hegseth was built for this moment. He was built

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Speaker 2: as a culture warrior, funded by the Koch brothers, empowered

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Speaker 2: with a spot on Fox News, and we never thought

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Speaker 2: that he would actually get nominated because we knew his

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Speaker 2: personal life was messy. I figured he was going to

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Speaker 2: be chief of staff or maybe press secretary. But Trump

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Speaker 2: is literally saying, and he's saying you, he's I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: roll you. I'm gonna put this guy up. And he

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Speaker 2: is a culture warrior, and he's got you know, tattoos

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Speaker 2: that might be associated white nationalism, and he's got three divorces,

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Speaker 2: and he's openly talked about, you know, having sex with

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Speaker 2: other people's wives. I mean, this is all out in

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Speaker 2: the open. And if he can get hag set through,

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Speaker 2: then the Democrats are gonna just get rolled and I

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Speaker 2: really think that's why, you know, I continue to bring

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Speaker 2: focus towards strategic leaders that aren't political, someone like Admiral Straviti's,

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Speaker 2: or maybe it's a retired Chairman of the Joint Chiefs

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Speaker 2: like Mike Mullen. Maybe someone else will emerge. And I

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Speaker 2: don't have an answer for you, but I do think

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Speaker 2: that independent Americans, especially people who do put country first,

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Speaker 2: people who took off the uniform, especially veterans who want

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Speaker 2: to continue to serve but don't necessarily want to get

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Speaker 2: in politics. This is a time for true patriots to

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Speaker 2: step up and and our values. Whether you're a school

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Speaker 2: teacher that has to represent yourself at the school board,

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Speaker 2: or you're somebody who's been thinking about running for Senate,

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe this is your time. But at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, he wants to roll everybody. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's the most important point about December twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four going into January, is he wants to come

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Speaker 2: out with a head of steam. This is like a blitzkree.

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Speaker 2: He's putting it all up front. He wants to push

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Speaker 2: it through because once he gets the keys to not

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Speaker 2: just the gun closet, but the kitchen and the security

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Speaker 2: system and everything else. Then everything else becomes easier. So

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Speaker 2: I think it's really important that you lay out that

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Speaker 2: landscape where we can't count on the Democrats. I've never

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Speaker 2: been been counting on the Democrats. I don't think you

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Speaker 2: have either. But I think it's kind of a wake

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Speaker 2: up moment for America to go, hey, they're not going

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Speaker 2: to fucking save you here, and we have to look

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Speaker 2: to other leaders and other structures and other tactics and

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Speaker 2: to have a strategy on a very basic level to

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Speaker 2: defend our values, defend our constitution. And let's start with

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Speaker 2: defending our military from a guy who says he doesn't

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Speaker 2: want women in combat when we've got two hundred thousand

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Speaker 2: women in combat, and as all this other shit, let's

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Speaker 2: start with focusing on Pete Hag Seth and not all

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Speaker 2: the other shiny stuff, because this is a very important fight,

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Speaker 2: and it's the fight that is right in front of us,

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Speaker 2: and we'll dictate. I think the pays for everything else

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Speaker 2: for years to come.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about Pete hag Sath.

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Speaker 2: That was a lot to throw at you when we.

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Speaker 1: Say no, no, indeed, I and and I agree, I agree,

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Speaker 1: I agree with you obviously he is unfit at such

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Speaker 1: a profound and deep level. It's tough to find the words.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do my best as we get, as we get,

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Speaker 1: as we get into it. But but I want to

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Speaker 1: I want to play Devil's advocate to you about something

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Speaker 1: that I think is fundamental that we we got to

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Speaker 1: put on the table and talk about more in the country,

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Speaker 1: which is an honest reckoning about how we have arrived

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Speaker 1: at this situation. In the military, as you you know,

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Speaker 1: after every action, there's gonna be an after action review. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's important to have an appreciation right of how it

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Speaker 1: is they arrived at whatever situation one finds oneself in

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Speaker 1: in order to get out of it right and and

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Speaker 1: and so in that sense, let me ask you a

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Speaker 1: couple kind of couple things. Is it possible that Pete

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Speaker 1: Hegseth could be worse in that position than Donald Drumsfeld

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Speaker 1: and Robert McNamara were.

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, absolutely, totally and completely. How because on a

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Speaker 2: very basic level, you may have disagreed with McNamara or

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Speaker 2: Rumsfeld on policy right like whether to bomb Cambodia, whether

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Speaker 2: to stay in I Rock. This is compromising the entire

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Speaker 2: integrity of the establishment. It's it's making it a political

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Speaker 2: wing of Trump's agenda. And I think that's why this

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Speaker 2: is very important, right, because everything that Trump wants to

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Speaker 2: get done on everything from migrants to banning trans people, right,

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Speaker 2: the entire spectrum of his agenda will start with Pete

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Speaker 2: Hegseth at the Pentagon. Right, So let's use an example that,

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe not a great one, but maybe like

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Speaker 2: trans people's rights. Right day one, at the Pentagon, they

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Speaker 2: flip the switch. There's a trans band. Anybody who's trans

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Speaker 2: gets pulled out of a unit, you get kicked out

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Speaker 2: of the military, you get processed out, and we start there. Right.

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Speaker 2: It is going to be easier at the Pentagon than

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Speaker 2: the Department of Justice or the Department of Labor, or

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Speaker 2: at education or at home. The Depentagon is going to

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Speaker 2: be the full crumb for everything because it will be

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Speaker 2: presented as a position on national security. If we don't

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Speaker 2: do this, the Chinese will have an advance. If we

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Speaker 2: don't do this, our enemies will be at an advantage. Right.

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Speaker 2: That's going to be true for trans bands, that's going

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Speaker 2: to be true for activating the national card.

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Speaker 1: I want to say that as a political argument. Okay,

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Speaker 1: if you lead with, we have to protect national security

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Speaker 1: by opposing Trump's trans band on day one, right, this

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Speaker 1: is this is the first thing we're running at.

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Speaker 2: I'm using that as an example because it's because it's

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Speaker 2: the easiest one for him, right, And it's what he

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Speaker 2: ran on, right, it's what he ran on, it's what

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Speaker 2: he weaponized, it's what he used as as kind of

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Speaker 2: a boogeyman, right to me.

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Speaker 1: Right, you Trump is going to impose a ban on

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Speaker 1: all transgender service members. They're going to be honorably discharged.

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Speaker 1: And there's nothing not honorably not that anybody can do

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Speaker 1: to stop that. Well, they'll be generally generally discharged.

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Speaker 2: They'll probably dishonorably discharge or at least general discharge. They

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Speaker 2: probably won't get benefits. And this is why it's important, right,

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Speaker 2: because in some ways you could argue the trans people

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Speaker 2: are the most vulnerable, or the weakest or the most politicized. Right,

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Speaker 2: So you start with them, right. And so when you

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Speaker 2: want to do something like take women out of combat,

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Speaker 2: which is bigger than it seems, because what it is

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Speaker 2: is it's saying women are not equal, Right, women are

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Speaker 2: not equally That's the bottom line, you can't do the

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Speaker 2: same things that we do, and therefore you will not

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Speaker 2: have the same opportunities rights, etc. So if you succeed

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Speaker 2: in achieving a lack of equality for women depending on

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Speaker 2: abortion rights, everything else is a downhill slide from there.

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Speaker 2: So when you ask me, is he more dangerous than

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Speaker 2: McNamara or Rumsfeld, you know yes, because the agenda is

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Speaker 2: much more extreme. I would argue that you could at

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Speaker 2: least count on Rumsfeld on some levels to put country

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Speaker 2: over a party. Right. He may have agreed with his

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Speaker 2: allegiances or his politics, but I think on a basic

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Speaker 2: level there was some kind of integrity there around the

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Speaker 2: institution and the world wasn't as dangerous Steve. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we've got, you know, a land war in Eastern Europe,

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Speaker 2: We've got the Chinese threat of Taiwan. We've got all

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Speaker 2: these other threats that are real but also in a

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Speaker 2: position to be exaggerated, not just by Trump but by Hegseth,

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Speaker 2: who I think too many Democrats dismissed these people. Hegseth

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Speaker 2: is a masterful communicator. He is brilliant at doing this,

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Speaker 2: at selling, at communicating, at motivating people, and he's a

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Speaker 2: multi sport athlete who can go on Joe Rogan, but

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Speaker 2: can host a show on Fox and also entangle with

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Speaker 2: the reporters on Capitol Hill and spin a weakness into

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Speaker 2: his strength. And that's why this is the playbook for

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Speaker 2: the rest of the administration. Right, it's the same kind

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Speaker 2: of skill set Tulsey Gabbert has. You could argue it's

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Speaker 2: the same kind of skill set other people in the

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Speaker 2: cabinet now, even like someone like a Christy Nome. But

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Speaker 2: they're good on TV. They're able to communicate to people,

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Speaker 2: you know, foreign and domestic, and they're good at this.

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Speaker 2: They're good at this thing. You may not like the thing,

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Speaker 2: but they are very very good at it. And if

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Speaker 2: you have a Pete Hegg have controlling everything from our

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Speaker 2: nukes to who gets to join, right, that drives the

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Speaker 2: culture for the entire country. So if you don't understand

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Speaker 2: why Joe Rogan is important, you probably don't understand why

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Speaker 2: the Pentagon's so important. And that's the parallel that I

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Speaker 2: think Democrats and many liberals in this country are really

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Speaker 2: failing to understand. It's much bigger than about politics. It's

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Speaker 2: about culture and manipulating American patriotism into something much more nefarious.

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Speaker 2: When banning women in combat seems like a patriotic thing

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Speaker 2: to do, deploying American troops in the streets seems like

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Speaker 2: a patriotic thing to do, and they don't have to

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Speaker 2: get everybody.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's gonna happen? Do you think we're

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Speaker 1: gonna see troops in the streets.

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Speaker 2: I think you will see Trump attempt to federalize the

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Speaker 2: National Guard, which is the first like critical cross road,

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Speaker 2: you know, might be January twentieth, he declares the state

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Speaker 2: of emergency, says, the migrant crisis is out of control.

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Speaker 2: I'm federalizing all National Guard units. Now, what could happen

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Speaker 2: is every report publican National Guard governor, every Republican governor

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Speaker 2: that is, the commander in chief of the National Guard says,

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Speaker 2: no problem. Here's Alabama, no problem, Here's Florida. Now what

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Speaker 2: happens in Illinois with Pritzker, What happens in Maryland with

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Speaker 2: Wes Moore? Do those governors say no, they say you

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Speaker 2: can't have my National Guard? Do they fight it out

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Speaker 2: in the courts and then take it all the way down?

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Speaker 2: What happens to the National Guard soldiers.

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Speaker 1: If he federalizes it? Statutorily. Right, there's he's the commander

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Speaker 1: in chief, he's got them, he's federalized.

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Speaker 2: Take it the next step down. Now you say, okay,

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Speaker 2: Maryland National Guard troops, you're going to be deployed to

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Speaker 2: round up let's say extreme example, like round up kids,

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Speaker 2: migrant kids. Some number of them are going to say no,

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Speaker 2: some numbers them are gonna say this is I think

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Speaker 2: this is an unlawful order. I am not going I'll

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Speaker 2: go to jail. So now you've got the military not

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Speaker 2: only rounding up kids, but jailing a certain number of

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Speaker 2: their own people who are now in conflict with what

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Speaker 2: Trump will argue is is a lawful order. They will

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Speaker 2: argue it's not. And I bring it all back to

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Speaker 2: this d because Ross Perrot once famously said something like

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Speaker 2: he wanted a monument in front of the White House

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Speaker 2: that said, first commit the country, then commit the troops.

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Speaker 2: If you thought Iraq divided people, imagine what it's like

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Speaker 2: when you federalize National Guard troops on the migrant crisis.

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Speaker 2: This is Kent State on steroids. And that's why when

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Speaker 2: people say is there going to be a civil war?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I think more importantly, there's going to

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Speaker 2: be a constitutional crisis around how and when to use

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Speaker 2: the military. And if you've got Pete hegsett there and

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Speaker 2: a bunch of undersecretaries who are willing to do it,

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Speaker 2: and you've got all the senior leadership gone because he's

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Speaker 2: fired the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and everybody else

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Speaker 2: who hasn't taken a loyalty test, you've got a steam

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Speaker 2: roll that can start to move forward.

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Speaker 1: This is this is really the heart of what I

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Speaker 1: what I want to what I want to talk to

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Speaker 1: you about right today. So what will happen is Trump

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Speaker 1: will get in there day one. He's going to pardon

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Speaker 1: everybody who was convicted of an offense on January sixth,

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Speaker 1: with the exception I suspect of the hardcore violent seditious

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Speaker 1: extremists like Stuart Rhodes, the guy with the.

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Speaker 2: iPad YEA and the guys who they have on tape.

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Speaker 1: Right but possible. But but but these people will come

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Speaker 1: out and they'll they'll be celebrated. He will execute that

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Speaker 1: trans band that you talked about in the in the military,

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Speaker 1: and uh he will use it politically as a as

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Speaker 1: a wedge issue. He will also set about firing the

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Speaker 1: senior leadership of the military, go to fire the chairman

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Speaker 1: of the Joint chiefs of Staff at the Air Force,

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Speaker 1: four star. He's going to fire the chief of Naval

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Speaker 1: Operations UH, the first woman uh to UH to rise

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Speaker 1: to that level in the United States Navy. All of

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Speaker 1: these people will be gone and.

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Speaker 2: Make an example out of them too, Which is key

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Speaker 2: because right now I have lots of friends in the

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Speaker 2: Pentagon who've worked on a number of controversial issues, and

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Speaker 2: this is really really important for people to understand. Not

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Speaker 2: only will he fire them, he'll probably put him on blast.

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Speaker 2: So Colonel Snuffy, who I don't know, for example, was

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Speaker 2: a part of the crew that changed the names of

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Speaker 2: military bases from Confederate leaders to non Confederate leaders. Right,

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Speaker 2: they're all on Tucker Carlson's list. Now their names are

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Speaker 2: out there, they've been publicly outed. Right, they're out of

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Speaker 2: the military. They have no more salary, they don't have publics,

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Speaker 2: they don't have security for their families. Right, they all

431
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 2: become General Millie, they all become faucy, and that is

432
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 2: a very dangerous thing. But it's also got a chilling

433
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 2: effect across not just the military, but every other organization.

434
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: Of course, yeah right, So how deep do you have

435
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: to go or you not have to go so deep

436
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 1: at all for ambition to take root?

437
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 2: How you know?

438
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: I mean what MacArthur posited right to the class of

439
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six when they were freshman at West Point

440
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: was the long gray line has never failed us duty

441
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 1: on our country. So you make a mockery right of

442
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: all of these virtues, all of these standards, all of

443
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: these ethics with the heg Seth nomination. You also have

444
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: the reality that you have somebody who says, atop a

445
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: chain of command involving nuclear weapons that levels below him

446
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: regarding their release, that say, the six I'm the captain

447
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: of a nuclear ballistic missile submarine. Nobody who had the

448
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: problematic drinking that heg Seth has would be allowed to

449
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: be the captain of a submarine. And the Navy, for example,

450
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 1: is different than the Army culturally, and that the Navy

451
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: relieve senior commanders captains of ships all the time, very

452
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: difficult right to get relieved as the brigade commander of

453
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 1: an active duty Army unit judge by the numbers. Not

454
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: so much in the Navy, not so much in the

455
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: Marine Corps. But in the services, two of which that

456
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: have the standards for you can't do those things or

457
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: you're out.

458
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 2: You have an Army.

459
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: Captain it was promoted to major at the end of

460
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 1: his service in the National Guard, who has gone to

461
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: none of the upper military level graduate schools, has no

462
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: core competency in the diplomacy, the strategy, the nuclear deterrents, doctrines,

463
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: none of it. He's a Fox News morning host who

464
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: is going to be put forward by Trump, who in

465
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: the Trumpian way, Trump is not all in on this guy.

466
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: He's letting them swim a little bit and watching it,

467
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: watching it go out. I have a seventeen I have

468
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: an eighteen year old son who is very seriously thinking

469
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: about I'm thinking about going in the Navy right right

470
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: out of high school. He's like, I'll go I'll go

471
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: to college later. And my position is on this over

472
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: my dead fucking body, if if, if the US senators

473
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: are so disrespectful, so fucking careless, so profoundly indifferent that

474
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: you can't get four of somewhere in the middle to

475
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, no, the fuck out of here, not

476
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: this guy, no way, no how, not her, and not

477
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: the whack job at the FBI, because if they do

478
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 1: get through, as you say, right, the orders will be

479
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: conveyed and they'll be expressed to the command structure of

480
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: the military through the Secretary as a legal order. Yeah,

481
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: he's the job of the secretary to be the first

482
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: line of defense to say no, that's in a legal order.

483
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: What you talked about is I think the very chilling scenario,

484
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: which is he calls to active duty National Guard troops

485
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: and no one can stop that taking and you have

486
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: a deployment of red state National Guard into blue states.

487
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: I don't know if they'll do that. That's the question, right,

488
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 2: Like that's these are the kind of questions, right, and

489
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 2: that's where we don't know. I think, you know, if

490
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 2: I can pause there for a second, number one, Like,

491
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: you know, I'm getting a lot of those phone calls

492
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 2: right now. Hey, my son or daughter is thinking about

493
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: joy and what would you tell them, I'd say, first

494
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: of all, if he or she is seventeen, it's not

495
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: up to you. They can do it on their own.

496
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: And so you're right, right, you got to hope that

497
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: they laid the foundation and they're gonna make the right choices.

498
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 2: But I think it's the right question because when you

499
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: talk about all these nominees, I would give them what

500
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: I've called the school principal test. You know, would you

501
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: be okay with Pete hag Seth or Cash Betel or

502
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: any number of them being the school principle for your

503
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: seventeen year old daughter? And I'm using daughter specifically, right,

504
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: would you be okay with that person being the principal

505
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 2: of your seventeen year old daughter's school. If not, why

506
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: are you okay with that person being the command or

507
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 2: the leader of your seventeen year old daughter in the

508
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: Marine Corps? Because that's what we're offering them up to do.

509
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: It's not like they're just gonna run a Walmart here.

510
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 2: I mean they are the moral, functional, bureaucratic leader that

511
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: your kids, those especially that have kids in the service,

512
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: you know, are gonna have to look to. But I

513
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 2: think there's a bigger thing here, Steve. When we talk

514
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 2: about all these elements, I don't think the Democrats realize

515
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 2: how bad they've lost, Like this is so much gone, right,

516
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: because it's not just the institutions like MSNBC that you

517
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: and I are on all the time, right, it's so

518
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 2: tiny and CNN is so irrelevant and though and they

519
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 2: could be gone gobbled up by Elon in three months

520
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: or a year. Right. They they're losing in the media,

521
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: they've lost all three chambers. They're losing in fundraising, they're

522
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 2: losing on sports, they're losing on culture, they're losing on gender.

523
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: They've lost so many things that you have to understand

524
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: that because they're all interconnected. Because when I say he's

525
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: gonna fire Generals, he's not just gonna fire him. They're

526
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: gonna be on Elon's Twitter feed, right, And the level

527
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 2: of intimidation and the way this whole flywheel is gonna

528
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: kick in is really faster and more more dangerous, I

529
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 2: think than most people realize. So when people say, oh,

530
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 2: Fox News host, that's kind of who you want for

531
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: this moment because he knows how to pull all those levers.

532
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 2: Pete x at again ran political organizations that were funded

533
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 2: by dedicated donors that invested in petex at twenty years ago.

534
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 2: They built him for this moment, and then he had

535
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: a corresponding seat at Fox. So when the Republicans wanted

536
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 2: to bang on Obama about the VA and they wanted

537
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: to punish the Democrats and make them look weak on

538
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 2: National Security. Hex has been doing it for years on Fox.

539
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: So this is an example of how it can all

540
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 2: come together. And I think this activation of the National

541
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: Guard is really important because they're the narrator, right, They're

542
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 2: going to narrate this to America, and you're gonna have

543
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 2: these subordinate narrators like Tulsea Gabbard or like Pete Hex said,

544
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: they're gonna echo that. So I keep coming back to, like,

545
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: who are the narrators that are going to rise to

546
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: this moment? It might be a new Colonel Vin been right,

547
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: maybe a state level commander of a National Guard who

548
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 2: says I'm going to stand up and say no, and

549
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 2: he gets dragged out in handcuffs, right, Like, They're going

550
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 2: to have to be people that emerge right now that

551
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 2: are beyond politics, that are trusted, that can counter that narrative.

552
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 2: Because maybe that's the most important part of all this

553
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 2: is Trump has already started writing this.

554
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: I want to get I want to get into I

555
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: want to get into like the details of this, like

556
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: for the for the audience, and so we'll be so

557
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: your service, you were, you served in the army, you

558
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: you were you were a captain, right were you?

559
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: I was I was a lowly platoon leader in a

560
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: grunt unit in I Rock for a little less than

561
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: a year. Yeah, So I mean I was.

562
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: So you're a lieutenant, right, you're a yep. Okay, so

563
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Reichoff in the New York National Guard. You're hanging

564
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: out right, It's it's January thirtieth, and you get the call. Right,

565
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: unit has been activated. Right, it's been it's been federalized.

566
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: Right.

567
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: And just to everybody who's watching, the way that this

568
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: works is that the military is structure, has an active

569
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: duty component, it has a reserve component. Reservists can serve

570
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: on active duty and they do all the time, and

571
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: has a national guard component, and the national Guard the

572
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: commander in chief of the National Guard on a state

573
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,479
Speaker 1: basis is the governor of the state, and then lassen

574
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: until they're federalized.

575
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: Right.

576
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: And so there's examples, right of instances where the president

577
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: has enforced federal law using the military.

578
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: New York's a really good example because New York's probably

579
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: been activated more since nine to eleven than any other state. Right,

580
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: I was on federal orders, state orders. The people who

581
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 2: are on the tunnels, the people who were at ground zero.

582
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 2: I was at ground zero after nine eleven, I think

583
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 2: we weren't even formally activated. Then some units run state orders,

584
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: then some units run federal orders. But really like Post

585
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 2: nine to eleven is a really good example because even

586
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 2: Pete Hegseth was his now guard you, it was federalized

587
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: for January sixth, and he was flagged for being a

588
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 2: threat as an insider threat because he had a tattoo

589
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 2: that was associated with extremism. His unit took him off

590
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 2: the line. So yes, so Christmas time, there are going

591
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 2: to be these warning orders. Hey guys, we're going to

592
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 2: get activated, and it's probably going to be like something

593
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: around migrant migrant camp, migrant security, migrant escort expectation.

594
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: Let me walking into this, right, So I was saying, right,

595
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: there's just so everyone watching, right. The precedent of this right,

596
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: and you know, one of the great examples is Dwight

597
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: Eisenhower right nineteen fifty four, the segregationists will not abide

598
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: the little Rock h in Little Rock, Arkansas, I will

599
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: not desegregate the schools in Dwight Eisenhower, now the president,

600
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: but former Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Forces sent

601
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: in the one hundred and first Airborne right to desegregate

602
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: the schools in Arkansas. So there's a difference though, between

603
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: Trump saying, Hey, I'm going to deploy the eighty second

604
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: Airborne into the interior of the country, and you know,

605
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: Trump saying I'm going to deploy these units of the

606
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: New York National Guard here there or whatever. Now, Lieutenant

607
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: Rychoff gets called up right from the from the and

608
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: they say, hey, you, Lieutenant Rykoff and your men are

609
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: going to go stand here right in Brownsville, Texas. Right

610
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 1: and there there you go, and and and and there

611
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: you are. Now you have no legal basis whatsoever right

612
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: to refuse the order, right now.

613
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 2: That's the question. Well, here's the question, right, like if

614
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 2: I if I am that guy, and I've been that guy, Okay,

615
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 2: Like I got deployed to go to a rock. I

616
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 2: volunteered to go to a rock. Right, But there are

617
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 2: plenty of us who said, you know, I don't agree

618
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 2: with the Iraq war. I'm getting deployed, right, And I'm

619
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 2: sure there are cases of somebody people who said no

620
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 2: isolated you know, conscientious objectors, which are different. But this

621
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: is the real constitutional crisis, right, You're gonna have whether

622
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 2: or not governors are going to oppose the actual activation,

623
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 2: But then it's gonna cascade all the way down to

624
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,439
Speaker 2: look like a place like New York. Safe to say

625
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 2: thirty forty percent of the people in the National Guard

626
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: are Democrats, right. They probably didn't vote for Trump. They

627
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 2: probably don't want to be deployed in the migrant crisis.

628
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 2: I got thrust into the national consciousness because I was

629
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 2: a National Guard person who came home and criticized George

630
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 2: Bush in two thousand and four. I was still in

631
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 2: the National Guard when I did that. People told me

632
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 2: I was going to be tried under the Hatch Act.

633
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 2: There was no precedent at that time for this like

634
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: melding of the National Guarden reserve that happens now where

635
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 2: Tulsea Gabbard, you know, apologizes for Putin, but she's still

636
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 2: in the in the National Guard in Hawaii. Like, these

637
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 2: lines have been so blurred since nine to eleven that

638
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: I think it's really like a reckoning on some levels, Steve.

639
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 2: But it does come down to those individuals, and I

640
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 2: don't think you can kind of cast aside then any

641
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 2: number of them knows if I say fucket I'm not going. Yeah,

642
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 2: I might go to Levenworth or I might go to

643
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 2: a jail for a little while, but the ACLU is

644
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 2: probably gonna defend me. I'm gonna have a million people

645
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 2: listening to me on TikTok. I'm gonna have an immediate platform,

646
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: and this is going to birth, I think a new

647
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 2: generation of a different kind of anti war activists. That's

648
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 2: what I was, That's what Lindy Shean was, what other

649
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 2: people were. Right.

650
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: What I hear you saying, right, and and I want

651
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 1: to and I want to talk about it, right, is

652
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: that people are going to disobeying lawful orders and they're.

653
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 2: Going to argue that they're not lawful.

654
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: Well, that is different, right, But arguing for example, I'm

655
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Reikoff in the National Guard and I don't agree

656
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: with the Iraq war, and then I'm not going no doubt,

657
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: you're going to have a lawyer that will take your

658
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: case and argue your position. But from my person, right,

659
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: you have no legal basis. What's so fucking ever to

660
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: refuse that order. In the same way is if you're

661
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: the commander of a platoon in the motor pool in

662
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: the New York National Guard and they tell you to

663
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: deploy to fucking Texas because you've been federalized. Your platoon

664
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,959
Speaker 1: goes to Texas, because you're in the United States Army.

665
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 1: And if you don't want to go to Texas, right,

666
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: you'll have no sympathy whatsoever from from me, No more

667
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: so than the Taylor Lorenz position, right of Hey, you know,

668
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: I'm joyful, right because this guy got shot in the back,

669
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: gone down by by Luigi Mangione, because of the pain

670
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: I'm in for the healthcare companies. And it's the worst

671
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 1: conceivable way right to resist Trump because it's unlawful, right,

672
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: and and because because nobody, because Paul, because nobody has

673
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: told you to do anything elle goal other than to

674
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: saddle up as part of the all volunteer force to

675
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: go to the place they told you.

676
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 2: To go, whether or not we think it's illegal, right, Like,

677
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 2: and I think this is a really important scenario to

678
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: just kind of think about, right, whether or not we

679
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 2: think it's illegal. Right. This is a country that celebrated Snowden.

680
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 2: This is a kind of many people who celebrate Snowden,

681
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: who celebrated Wiki leagues, who thought Julian Lassane was a

682
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 2: fucking hero, right, all of which I disagree with. Okay,

683
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 2: But if this person or a number of people take

684
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,919
Speaker 2: this stand, you may not agree with them, other people

685
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 2: may not agree with them, but they're gonna be on Chris

686
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: Hayes like that, and they're gonna be out in the public.

687
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,959
Speaker 2: And this is where the dynamic is really different now,

688
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 2: and especially because the civil military divide is so skewed

689
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 2: and Trump is in part done that, done that by

690
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 2: politicizing the military in so many different ways. But we

691
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 2: all wanted to know what was vinmin gonna say when

692
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 2: he got out, right, Well, Vinman got out and then

693
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 2: we heard what he said. Right now, if you kick

694
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 2: that person out, or even if you don't, that person

695
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 2: can pick up their cell phone. And the country is

696
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 2: so starved for opposition. And there may even be illegal

697
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 2: grounds for the kind of deployment what they're asking this

698
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,720
Speaker 2: person to do, whether or not it's legal across state lines.

699
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 2: That's gonna end up in the courts. And the most

700
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,479
Speaker 2: important thing is Steve, it's going to be I think

701
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 2: a kind of constitutional crisis, definitely a civil military divide crisis,

702
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 2: and it's going to rip the country in half, and

703
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 2: it's going to rip our military in half. And that's

704
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 2: why this is also dangerous, because when you politicize our military,

705
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 2: it is the most dangerous thing to do. Again, think

706
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 2: about Iraq as an example, Afghanistan as an example. Now

707
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 2: we're talking about whether they're whether they're federal or their state,

708
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 2: because he also could send federal troops down to the

709
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: border and do other things. You are politicizing the military

710
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 2: on a level we've never seen. And I've started to

711
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 2: call these people out. They're chickenhawks. The people are saying, hey,

712
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 2: send the National Guard down to Texas or send them

713
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 2: into migrant shelters. Do you think I want to be

714
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 2: Lieutenant Rykoff carrying a rifle and a migrant shelter in Brooklyn,

715
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 2: surrounded by protesters and everybody else.

716
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: This is the question that I'm that I'm that I'm

717
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: trying to get to, and I think it's this is

718
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: why I kind of the this is this where the

719
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 1: line is is is important. So no democratic governor has

720
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: any legal basis whatsoever to say you can't have my

721
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: National Guard.

722
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 2: I don't know that. I don't know that, but stipulate this.

723
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: Because they don't, right I Under the National Defense Authorization Acts, Paul,

724
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:37,720
Speaker 1: they they just don't.

725
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 2: Right, I think there will be at least one democratic

726
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: governor who will challenge it. I don't think. I don't

727
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 2: think Kathy Hokeel And well, and here's my National Guard, Paul.

728
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: There has to be in the country a place where

729
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: there could be non crazy conversations, right and and so

730
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: I hope this is one of those places. But but

731
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: I but I, but I want to just let's let's

732
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:09,959
Speaker 1: just go with this, Okay. A democratic governor cannot tell

733
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: the president you can't activate my New Jersey National Guard.

734
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: They can't.

735
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 2: They can, they can. There's nothing stopping them from making

736
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 2: even if it's even if it's a political charade.

737
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:33,919
Speaker 1: They then they stand. There's no military where. I feel

738
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: like we can't get to the important point because we're

739
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: arguing on a detail that I'm right about that you

740
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 1: won't let go of.

741
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 2: But we'll come back, come back at too much, See,

742
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 2: I'll come back. I don't. I don't.

743
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that one won't try, and I'm not

744
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: saying right that they may not be lionized. I'm saying

745
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: that they will not be able to stop, not for

746
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: two point two nanoseconds. They have no legal authority whatsoever,

747
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: no basis. If Trump wants their national Guard troops, a squad,

748
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: a platoon, a company, or all of them, and he

749
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,240
Speaker 1: federalizes them as national Guard, they go and they go

750
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: to wherever, wherever it is he sends them, and so

751
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: there they are.

752
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,720
Speaker 2: And like what if he sends them to Mexico City.

753
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: General Grant said when he went to Mexico City as

754
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Grant that his evaluation of it was that it

755
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,439
Speaker 1: was the most unjust war that had ever been. But

756
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: but he went to Mexico City as you went to Baghdad,

757
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: as the commander in chief has the power right to

758
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: deploy the military, as you would know better than I.

759
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: Right now, we're in how many countries?

760
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 2: How many? Twenty one two? How many went to? Like

761
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 2: how many?

762
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: How many countries is there an American soldier in right now?

763
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 2: I mean one hundred? I don't know how many. I mean,

764
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 2: you look it up.

765
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like it's like it's one hundred, one hundred,

766
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: one hundred at least, right So there's no authorization for that.

767
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: So so my question is when you're when you're there

768
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: in Texas on that corner and the order comes and

769
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: the order is we start rounding up the migrants at

770
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: the at the schools today. Right, this is the spot

771
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: where I think, legally, now you're in an interesting territory

772
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 1: where all of the ethics, all of the ingrained teachings.

773
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 2: Right.

774
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 1: The American soldier says, uh, yes, this is an illegal order.

775
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's so apparently we have bases in

776
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 2: fifty five countries roughly, right, but there's a lot of

777
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 2: places we don't have bases. It gets blurry, But but

778
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 2: I think this is this is kind of the real

779
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 2: twenty t twenty four, twenty twenty five world we're gonna

780
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 2: live in. And let's just I want people to envision

781
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 2: like let's say he says, it's gonna be like a

782
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 2: like the Lieutenant Calli is taught in the schoolhouse at

783
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 2: the infangery school, in the office of school about what

784
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 2: not to do. You use him as an example from

785
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 2: Vietnam on a case where you should refuse an unlawful order.

786
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 2: If the commander comes over and says, hey, hey, hey, Schmidt,

787
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 2: shoot all those kids, you have an obligation to say

788
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 2: no to that unlawful order. Now, the problem is, it's

789
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 2: never that simple. It's always much blurrier and a very

790
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: real scenario could be, Okay, there's a bunch of kids

791
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: in that school, there's a line of protesters who are

792
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 2: saying they're not gonna let you in. Bust through that

793
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,359
Speaker 2: line and go get those kids. Now you're asking that

794
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 2: your eighteen year old kid, your nineteen year old kid

795
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 2: is now that private in the National Guard who's got

796
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 2: to bust through a line of protesters with every camera

797
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 2: in the world watching and go. Let's say there's only

798
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: five kids in it, but there's a criminal inside, right,

799
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 2: there's one criminal inside. Right. This is literally what we

800
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,839
Speaker 2: went through in Iraq on steroids, right, hunting all over

801
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 2: the place for people and pissing off the population along

802
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 2: the way. And that's why maybe the most important point

803
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 2: of all of this that I would the warning for

804
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 2: your show, right, ittion of our military and of patriotism

805
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 2: and of all of it. And Hegseth is the manifestation

806
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 2: of that. But it's not just him. Trump is very

807
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 2: smartly casting the entire season of this episode, with people

808
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 2: like Tulca Gabbard and people like the EPA nominee Lee's

809
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 2: Eldon Right. I ran for governor of New York and

810
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 2: Trump said his qualifications to be an EPA administrator is

811
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 2: that he was in the Army reserves and he knows

812
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 2: about bureaucracy, like he's going to use this shield of

813
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 2: military veteran and patriotism on everything. And that's the warning,

814
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 2: that's the thing to watch out for, because I know

815
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 2: people care about all their different issues, but national security

816
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 2: and global security is always got to be paramount. And

817
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 2: that's my warning to everybody as we end December and

818
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 2: going too January, whether it's Justice Department, whether it's headset.

819
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 2: If it feels like it's always all overwhelming, remember that

820
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 2: our enemies are celebrating. Putin loves to see this, and

821
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 2: Osama bin Laden's dream would have been to see us

822
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 2: in a situation where you and I are debating whether

823
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 2: or not National Guard troops are going to have to

824
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 2: kick in schools and drag out migrant kids.

825
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 1: When you think about the military in the streets, and

826
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,720
Speaker 1: so you think it's going to happen, right.

827
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's going to happen in the

828
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 2: streets right, Like, if you have it's more likely that

829
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 2: you do things like have them drive trucks or they

830
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 2: provide medical support. Or that's what I would do if

831
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 2: I were going to soft sell it. Right, you have

832
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 2: to drive trucks and do medical support and feed the migrants. Right.

833
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 2: But Trump doesn't know the difference between the different units,

834
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 2: and he's probably going to be asking for the Navy

835
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 2: seals to go get a Mexican criminal in bedside.

836
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: Let me ask it this way. I just drove across

837
00:47:54,440 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: the country last week from New Hampshire to California, see

838
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: a lot of cops and saw no military vehicles on

839
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: the highways. When I drive back in five months, is

840
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:13,720
Speaker 1: it gonna look different?

841
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 2: I think so. I think so because he can also look.

842
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 2: This is why it's dangerous, because you activate them for

843
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 2: the migrant crisis. What if you feel like Portland's crime

844
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 2: situation is out of control. What if you feel like,

845
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 2: you know, Lower Manhattan has got too many homeless, Like

846
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,720
Speaker 2: it becomes your instrument for executing everything, and it starts

847
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 2: with those incremental steps. This is how you get Japanese

848
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 2: internment camps, right, I mean, this is how it starts

849
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 2: with those increments. But what he's doing is setting the

850
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 2: pieces in place to have all the crazy shit go

851
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 2: through the system without resistance from him. To Hegseth, to

852
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: the purge of the Pentagon, of all the officers. Then

853
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 2: all these crazy things that he wants to do cut

854
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 2: through like like a knife through butter Right, there's no

855
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: more mill, there's no more Chairman of the Joint chief

856
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 2: saying hey, sir, it is a bad idea. Those guys

857
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 2: are all fucking gone. And you got an army of

858
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 2: hegsets and an army of hash cash betels, including the

859
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 2: civilian authorities, all the way down in those political positions.

860
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 2: And you hope that the government, the government people who've

861
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 2: been there for twenty years, the people who run the pentingon,

862
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 2: you hope that they stay and try to be a buffer.

863
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:25,919
Speaker 2: But a lot of them are just gonna fucking check out.

864
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 2: They're gonna say I don't want this. I'm gonna go

865
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 2: sit on a beach in Florida where my taxes are

866
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 2: lower and enjoy the desanthus land. There's plenty of people

867
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 2: who are gonna do that. And the other piece that's

868
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 2: critical here, Steve, is the recruiting will change. Yeah, your

869
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 2: kid might not want to join, But like a Maga

870
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 2: loyalist who loves Pete Hegseth and listens to Joe Rogan,

871
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 2: He's fucking joining. He loves this. There's no trans people

872
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 2: in the military. I don't have to take a COVID shot.

873
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 2: Sign me up, man, I'm ready to go. And it

874
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 2: begins to turn into the Maga army, right, it begins

875
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 2: to turn into the Maga army rather than this beautiful, diverse,

876
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 2: lethal fighting for or that we've got right now sounds great. Great,

877
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: Merry Christmas, Dave, Merry Christmas. Everybody.

878
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: All right, I want to like talk to you about

879
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 1: politics for a second, just straight up.

880
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 2: So I've been talking about politics, right.

881
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: You're talking about talking about something deeper, I think, but

882
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:31,800
Speaker 1: just raw campaign politics. Do you see anybody potentially running

883
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: as an independent candidate under a I'm gonna fix the country,

884
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 1: put the country first. Who's a person of stature and

885
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 1: that person will will come from the military. It'll be

886
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: a senior military officer who is deeply experienced in the

887
00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: in the security of the country and in my estimation, right,

888
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: if there is to be such a person, right, who

889
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:07,760
Speaker 1: comes forward?

890
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 2: Now?

891
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: If you think about an independent candidacy, and I've been

892
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: involved in an effort where somebody did some diligence around

893
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 1: one and I think it's an interesting intellectual proposition that

894
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: you have this duopoly that has produced Donald Trump. And

895
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: I've read a couple of these stories about what Kamala

896
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:35,240
Speaker 1: Harris is going to do next, whether she's gonna run

897
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,399
Speaker 1: for governor of California run for president again, be both

898
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: at once, and they and they bring me to the

899
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 1: edge of Anneurism right Nowhere in any of them is

900
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,359
Speaker 1: any talk whatsoever about the person wants the office for,

901
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: what reason, to do, what to serve, what purpose? None

902
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 1: of it right, It's just it's all about the ambition. Now.

903
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:01,399
Speaker 1: What the Democratic Party establishment it was very good at

904
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 1: right over the last couple of years, is when you

905
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 1: saw some of these bubbles come up, as you know,

906
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: spoiler screaming spoiler right. I think the whole concept of

907
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 1: the maybe the Democrats shouldn't feel the candidate right in

908
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,359
Speaker 1: four years, maybe they're the sport right electing Trump. Right,

909
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: Maybe they should just run candidates at the gubernatorial US Senate,

910
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 1: a US House level, and there can be some sort

911
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 1: of process outside of the Democratic primary process where somebody

912
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: comes forward and run for president without having to go

913
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: through all the bullshit, right and play all the games. Right,

914
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 1: That produce a result that's corrupt enough right for Donald

915
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: Trump to win.

916
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 2: Right, But do you think about.

917
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: Like when you independent veteran.

918
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 2: This is my focus now. I mean, I believe that

919
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 2: the future of American politics is independent because our past

920
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 2: was also independent, right, Like George Washington was the last

921
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 2: independent president we had, and he was also a veteran, right.

922
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 2: And what I think is the future is people who

923
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: are leaders first, who are independent of the duopoly and

924
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 2: are judged on their own merit on a more play

925
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 2: level playing field where they can have not just you know,

926
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 2: ranked choice voting and public financing, but also you know,

927
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 2: open primaries and ballot access, all the things that they're

928
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 2: prohibited from or they're blocked from having or made difficult

929
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: for them. And I think that the truth is the

930
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 2: biggest group of voters in America and the fastest growing

931
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 2: is independence. Fifty one percent of Americans call themselves independents.

932
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,359
Speaker 2: More people who voted this time call themselves independence than

933
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 2: call themselves Democrats and Republicans. Sixty percent of young people

934
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 2: are calling themselves independence. And they don't want to be

935
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 2: a part of No Labels or Andrew Yang's Forward Party.

936
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 2: They just want none of the above. They think it's

937
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 2: all fucking broken. They want to put their country first.

938
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 2: They think they can have one hundred options on Amazon

939
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 2: for a couch and they shouldn't have only two options

940
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 2: for president. So the next generation is demanding this, and

941
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 2: I think what you will see as an emergence of

942
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 2: candidates who can respond to that or who come from that,

943
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 2: and they maybe we believe that many of them will

944
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 2: be foreign military people. That's why we started Independent Veterans

945
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 2: of America. We think they will be the forward edge.

946
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,320
Speaker 2: They will be the easiest to understand because this is

947
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 2: a group of people who put country first and have

948
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 2: done that their whole lives. So making that transition is

949
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 2: going to be more understandable for people. We had eleven

950
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,399
Speaker 2: candidates who ran. Four of them won. Three of them

951
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 2: that lost lost by less than five percent. Dan Osborne,

952
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 2: maybe most notably in Nebraska, ran as a Navy steam fitter.

953
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 2: He ran as an independent against deb Fisher, who was

954
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,359
Speaker 2: an entrenched MAGA Republican, and he lost by you know,

955
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 2: less than five percent. But that's the best showing by

956
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 2: an independent candidate for Senate in modern history. So if

957
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 2: somebody runs for president, and I think it's important to

958
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 2: pick examples, right, not just talk Let's just not talk

959
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 2: about Ross Puaux or talk about like if the Rock

960
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,760
Speaker 2: ran right, everybody's oh the Rock, Well, Donald Trump's pretty

961
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 2: fucking ridiculous too, and plenty of people thought Ronald Reagan

962
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 2: was ridiculous. But let's just run the model. Right. Let's

963
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 2: say it's Kamala Harris again against Donald Trump and the

964
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,359
Speaker 2: Rock runs. Run it through the model. He will at

965
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 2: least be competitive, right, And you could run that same

966
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 2: model with Adamiral mccraven. You can run it with Oprah,

967
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:17,879
Speaker 2: and then you could take it down to the state

968
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 2: level and do it with Matthew McConaughey and Texas, right,

969
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 2: or do it with Mark Cuban for Senate. And I

970
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:25,839
Speaker 2: think what you're seeing is the country is finally fed up,

971
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 2: and what we have to create is the infrastructure and

972
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 2: the pathway for these people to be viable. And we

973
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 2: are doing it by starting with veterans. We ran eleven

974
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 2: this time in twenty five, We're gonna run twenty five,

975
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 2: twenty five and twenty five. For things like mayors like

976
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 2: mayor of Omaha, mayor of Buffalo. We are recruiting right now,

977
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,800
Speaker 2: for veterans, but we would put the call out to everyone,

978
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,919
Speaker 2: whether it's local school board or its Senate. We think

979
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 2: that there is a movement about to tip and what

980
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 2: you've seen so far is the imperfect offerings like no

981
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 2: labels and forward and RFK Junior. But they're all tapping

982
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:01,240
Speaker 2: into something bigger, which is it The country generally considers itself,

983
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 2: the majority of it independent, and they want leaders first.

984
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,839
Speaker 2: And it's not even compartmentalized by a platform. People say, well,

985
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 2: are independent people against medicare or for medicare? It depends

986
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 2: on the person, Like you're gonna have to do the

987
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 2: work and evaluate each one of them. But you look

988
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:20,240
Speaker 2: at you look at Dan Osborne, right, he was pretty

989
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 2: quiet about Ukraine. He said he was going to support

990
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 2: union rights, he was going to come after corporations. He

991
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 2: talked tough, he had tattoos, and he used to make

992
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 2: forty thousand dollars a year. A lot of it's just

993
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 2: about leadership, Like people know a leader when they see it.

994
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 2: And if real, authentic, patriotic leaders step forward, and if

995
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 2: waves of them come, and I think the waves are

996
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:43,760
Speaker 2: going to come most acutely in veterans, former sports people

997
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 2: and celebrities. They're going to be the first waves, right,

998
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 2: and then you can get on down to more normal people.

999
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 2: But I think the opportunity is there, not just four

1000
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 2: years from now for president. We think the opportunity is

1001
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 2: there in twelve months for local offices, for school boards,

1002
00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 2: and for plenty of other races in twenty six, twenty seven,

1003
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 2: leading up to twenty twenty eight, when who knows where

1004
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 2: will be. But I do think the future is independent

1005
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 2: and the country wants it.

1006
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: One thing that you said that I just like I

1007
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: can't align myself in agreement more with is nobody understands

1008
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 1: how badly they were beaten, and everyone processes this the

1009
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 1: wrong way, which is they count votes as opposed to

1010
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 1: the totality of the leveling and the vote total gives

1011
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 1: you reason for optimism, right, is that it wasn't that

1012
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 1: big a victory and it's a plurality win. But the

1013
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: totality of the destruction wrought on the side that managed

1014
00:57:55,000 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: to lose to MAGA is a stop. And so the

1015
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 1: one thing that that Mark Halprin said that I thought

1016
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: it was going to happen, it may still manifest itself.

1017
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 1: He predicted that if the if there was a Trump victory,

1018
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 1: the would there would be the biggest mental health crisis

1019
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 1: in in American history, right, and it hasn't really come

1020
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: to pass.

1021
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 2: Oh give it some time or give it some time, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1022
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 2: exactly right.

1023
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not ruling it out.

1024
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1025
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 1: But but the thing that that that for sure, right,

1026
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: you know, for sure has happened is this I don't

1027
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 1: I don't know what you call it, but it's this.

1028
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 1: It's just astonishing, uh kind of reconnect like like like

1029
00:58:55,440 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 1: like that you had the senior leadership of the campaign

1030
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 1: earnestly and honestly believing they ran a flawless effort.

1031
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 2: They still think that, they still think. But I think

1032
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 2: you know, everybody keeps saying, you know, is this a mandate.

1033
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. It's not a mandate. But it was

1034
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 2: a sweep, right. And and when you win the World Series,

1035
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 2: if you won in seven games, you won in six games,

1036
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 2: you won in five games, doesn't fucking matter. You won it, right,

1037
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 2: and you get the parade.

1038
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 1: He's an ass kicking.

1039
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, even if it wasn't an ass kicking, it

1040
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 2: was a total victory, right, and that's the most important.

1041
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter if you win by one run or

1042
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 2: you win by ten, you won, right, And they won

1043
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 2: in all the key areas, and that's what's most important.

1044
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 2: But it was also simultaneously a rejection of the Democrats

1045
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 2: on a level we maybe have seen before but haven't

1046
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 2: really been looking. Pat Ryan is a friend of mine

1047
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 2: who who Now the Democrats are running to Pat Ryan.

1048
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 2: They're running to all like, let's find the Democrat who

1049
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 2: can help us understand why they won. And Pat sent

1050
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 2: an email that said Pat is a different time Democrat

1051
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 2: and I wrote back in said, but he's still a

1052
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 2: fucking Democrat. They don't understand. Pat is a great candidate.

1053
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 2: I think he's a great public servant. He also ran

1054
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 2: against a woman who was openly gay, and most people

1055
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 2: thought that she was a Democrat and he was the Republican. Right, So, like,

1056
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 2: there's these other pieces of this that people aren't fully understanding,

1057
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 2: which is that the Democratic brand and the Democratic establishment

1058
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 2: is completely shattered, and maybe even more so than the Republicans,

1059
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 2: because at least the Republican party functions. You may not

1060
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 2: like the way it functions or what it's focused on,

1061
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 2: but it actually functions quite effectively to achieve what it

1062
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 2: wants to, which is to win elections and take power. Right. So,

1063
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 2: I think what you're seeing is a reckoning on some levels.

1064
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 2: And the Democrats are holding on to power. The grifters

1065
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 2: and the establishment and the system is all holding on

1066
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 2: to keep it going and give it another run. We

1067
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 2: promise you will get it next time. But I think

1068
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 2: most Americans a year from now especially, will realize they're

1069
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 2: fucked with both of them, and they're not happy with

1070
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 2: both of them, and they want alternatives. And the question, now, Steve,

1071
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 2: for you and for every candidates, can I be an alternative?

1072
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 2: I am putting forward alternatives that I think are viable,

1073
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 2: and they're independent veterans. Right. They're winning at state races

1074
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 2: because people say, oh, I like this guy. Nick Batter

1075
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 2: lost by one hundred votes in Nebraska against a Democrat

1076
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 2: who's spent over a million bucks. I think he spent

1077
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 2: less than one hundred thousand dollars. The fact that he

1078
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:21,440
Speaker 2: even came close, right shows you that the thirst and

1079
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 2: the interest is there. The fact that Kennedy could get

1080
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 2: the kind of support he did. People want an alternative.

1081
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 2: They just don't want Robert Kennedy. If that alternative was

1082
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 2: somebody more viable, we would have had a very different landscape.

1083
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 2: So I think we are in a moment where leaders

1084
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 2: are going to rise and the opposition to Trump will

1085
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 2: most effective. Opposition encounter to Trump won't come from the left,

1086
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 2: It'll come from the middle. The angry, unheard group of

1087
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 2: people in this country that is really starving to get

1088
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 2: power and to take the country back is not Maga Republicans.

1089
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 2: It's moderates, it's independence, It's the majority of this country.

1090
01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 1: If I remember, I remember in high school, we had

1091
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 1: a football practice where the coach yelled at us to

1092
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 1: like put down the footballs.

1093
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 2: Right.

1094
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 1: He was like, He's like, no one's in a touch

1095
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 1: of football today, right, He's like, we used to a

1096
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: practice lining up and running there.

1097
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, right.

1098
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 1: And I feel like the Democrats need some practices like that.

1099
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 2: But if I feel like we have to stop putting

1100
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 2: them on the field, don't even let them on the

1101
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 2: fucking field anymore. That's that's the dynamic that needs to change,

1102
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 2: is why do they And this is really the important part.

1103
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:35,439
Speaker 2: What my friend John Optiker runs open primaries is really

1104
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 2: really effective and been I think an important leader in

1105
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 2: democracy reform for many many years. He said, you know,

1106
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 2: when you have closed primaries, as an example, you're letting

1107
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 2: them field a candidate and they're the referee. Right. So

1108
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party, as an example, runs closed private elections

1109
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 2: in my state, uses my kids' public school, uses public

1110
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:59,959
Speaker 2: resources to run a closed primary that I can't even

1111
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 2: vote in because I'm not a Democrat Like that is

1112
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 2: what we have to tackle is the fact that the

1113
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 2: Democrats have closed out competition. So I don't even want

1114
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 2: them on the field, much less running the scoreboard and

1115
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 2: the referees. I want them to have to fight for

1116
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 2: that field, on an even playing field with Dan Osbourne

1117
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 2: or the Rock or whoever else, just like everybody else.

1118
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 2: I think that's where the real action is, right, and

1119
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 2: the Republicans knew it. That's why they tried to keep

1120
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 2: primaries closed in I think twenty states over the last

1121
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 2: couple of years, because if you let the independence in,

1122
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 2: that upsets the entire apple cart.

1123
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 1: The puts to make is that if we were a

1124
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 1: retreating force the opposition, which definitely includes the Democrats, what

1125
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 1: we would be saying to everybody in camp is pick

1126
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 1: up your shit, pack it up. We got a lot

1127
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 1: of walking to do.

1128
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 2: But I'm not saying that, I'm saying take it differently.

1129
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 2: This is what democrats need to hear. They're not in retreat.

1130
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 2: Hold the ground you've got, dig a hole and make

1131
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 2: them run you over because let me, they're gonna keep coming.

1132
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 1: And let me and I and I use that analogy

1133
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 1: because I think you have to have ground that you

1134
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: can fight from. And the current position is indefensible. It's scattered,

1135
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: is disorganized. There there is no line. So everyone's got

1136
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 1: to pick up their shit and start walking that way

1137
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: until we find the first place to defend ground from.

1138
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 1: And what is that? Do you think is going to

1139
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 1: be that first MAGA overreach?

1140
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 2: Right?

1141
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 1: As we as we get forward, you're going to see

1142
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 1: You're to see a cascade of executive actions, of pardons,

1143
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 1: of fire hose, of nonsense. It's all going to be normalized, sanitized,

1144
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 1: most of it's going to be packaged. As Trump is winning,

1145
01:04:56,280 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 1: he's succeeding. Look at his application of power and authority

1146
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 1: and wisdom, the whole organizing principle. The media is gonna

1147
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: be be nice to Trump. He's gonna start doing all

1148
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 1: of this stuff. I'm a rejectionist of the idea that

1149
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 1: it will be popular, right if we are, in fact

1150
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:19,919
Speaker 1: right entering into the golden age of America led by

1151
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 1: the right, led by the Maga Republicans, and you and

1152
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:27,160
Speaker 1: I are two people is wrong about anything that two

1153
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 1: people have ever been wrong about anything about and and

1154
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: we're gonna be totally discredited, don't. I don't think that's

1155
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 1: gonna happen. But where where is the line right that

1156
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 1: that is it? Is it twenty days in? Is it

1157
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: thirty days in? Is it on immigration? Is it on

1158
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 1: is it on the deployment of the military, Is it

1159
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 1: on the is it on the confirmation hearings where people

1160
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: look at a couple of these people and early, holy shit?

1161
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 2: I think this is a really good question because here

1162
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 2: here's if you ask Zelensky, where's the line, he'd say,

1163
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 2: my whole country? Right. He wouldn't say, oh, you know what,

1164
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 2: I'm okay with giving up the don bos im go

1165
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 2: okay with giving up this. I'm gonna care. That's for

1166
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 2: other people to say, right, Like what would we be okay?

1167
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 2: We'd be okay with giving all my Texas, giving away California,

1168
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 2: giving away Alaska. I think that the mindset of Democrats

1169
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 2: is not even relevant to me, right, Like what I'm

1170
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 2: talking about right now are patriots. What is important to you?

1171
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 2: And everybody's gonna have to draw their own lines, just

1172
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 2: like in combat. Right. Yeah, we're trying to move together

1173
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:28,920
Speaker 2: as a unit, but there is no more unit. The

1174
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 2: unit has been shattered. Your commander's dead. Like everybody is

1175
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:34,120
Speaker 2: kind of fighting on their own. And what you start

1176
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:37,280
Speaker 2: to do now is you're not these little clicks, right.

1177
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 2: It's like band of brothers when they when they when

1178
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 2: the one hundred first gen, you hook up with other

1179
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 2: guys at the clickers and say, hey, you got a clicker,

1180
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 2: I got a clicker. Let's see what we can do, right.

1181
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 2: And that's where we are right now, is people fighting

1182
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 2: for the things that they hold sacred before Trump rolls

1183
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:53,440
Speaker 2: over them. So for me, and I think for a

1184
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 2: lot of veterans, it's the Pentagon, right, And it's this

1185
01:06:56,280 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 2: nomination because Gates for many people was the line and

1186
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 2: they stop Gates. You can argue Gates is gone crazy

1187
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 2: thing he tried, it's he's off the board, right. I

1188
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 2: think that heg Seth is the line. And it's not

1189
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 2: just about the confirmation hearings. This is a test of

1190
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 2: the Republicans. This is a test obviously. Are any Democrats

1191
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 2: other than Tammy Duckworth gonna stand up and say anything?

1192
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 2: Are they all gonna start folding like it sounds like

1193
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 2: Fetterman is doing and many others? Right? Where are the

1194
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:24,920
Speaker 2: officers within the military. Are they gonna find ways to

1195
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 2: speak out? Are they gonna find ways to try to

1196
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 2: push back? Where the fuck is the press? Right? It's

1197
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 2: gonna be a test of everybody. And heg Seth, in

1198
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 2: my view, is the most immediate and the first real test,

1199
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 2: because Gates wasn't really a test. Gates was, you know

1200
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:41,960
Speaker 2: whatever it was. But but but but Hegseth is the

1201
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 2: big hail Mary he's starting with. It's the big shot

1202
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 2: he's taking. And for me, that's where I am right now.

1203
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:49,919
Speaker 2: I'm hunkered down here. I think you have to try

1204
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 2: to stop heg Seth. And of course somebody else crazy

1205
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:53,120
Speaker 2: is gonna come.

1206
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:55,880
Speaker 1: Do you think that Seth great?

1207
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 2: Coins also, Steve, It's also it's also winnable, right, you

1208
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 2: have to pick winnable fights, right, you ow, it's winnable.

1209
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:04,960
Speaker 1: It's winnable. It's winnable if you can hold all the

1210
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 1: Democratic votes.

1211
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 2: Right. But regardless, like in the beginning, when he got nominated,

1212
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 2: everybody's like, oh, this is gonna happen too, Right, people

1213
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 2: think Tulsi is is inevitable, or that RFK is inevitable.

1214
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 2: None of this is normal, none of it is acceptable,

1215
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 2: and none of it is inevitable. So the real problem, Steve,

1216
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 2: honestly is getting people to not quit. Like, you can't

1217
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 2: get worn out, you can't check out over the holidays.

1218
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:29,439
Speaker 2: You got to keep fighting. I know you're tired from fighting,

1219
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 2: but you got to keep fighting. And right now is

1220
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 2: arguably the most important point because you want to stun

1221
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 2: his momentum. You know he's gonna get the House. You

1222
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 2: know he's gonna get the Senate, he's gonna get Supreme

1223
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:40,719
Speaker 2: Court nominee. So look across the board, there are plenty

1224
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 2: of people said, we can't stop Gates. Those people. I

1225
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:45,120
Speaker 2: want them out of the room. I don't want them

1226
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 2: in my foxhol anymore. Right, But other people know, you

1227
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 2: can stop hag Seth, you can stop RFK Junior, you

1228
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 2: can stop Tulsi, you can stop cash Fattel. And you

1229
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 2: do it by reminding people what's most important and talk

1230
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:01,799
Speaker 2: about the basics, give them the principal and explain why

1231
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 2: you shouldn't have a radical guy who wants to blow

1232
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 2: up the FBI running the FBI.

1233
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:11,600
Speaker 1: Are we to see Military officers Arena Cee senior retired

1234
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:18,520
Speaker 1: and listed sergeant majors, Master chiefs of the Navy retired,

1235
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 1: four stores, three stores, two stores, brigade combat leaders who say,

1236
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 1: you know, at a colonel level, who just say this

1237
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 1: guy's unfit or is that I wouldn't hold your.

1238
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:31,960
Speaker 2: Breath for it, frankly, right, because like if you look

1239
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 2: at the last twenty years, like very few of them

1240
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 2: spoke up against anything ranging from I don't know everything

1241
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 2: from like from Afghanistan going on for twenty years to

1242
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 2: the Iraq surge to even things like torture. Like maybe

1243
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:51,519
Speaker 2: that's like when you know, when John McCain was saying, hey,

1244
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 2: we shouldn't torture people, a lot of people in the

1245
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 2: military just shut the fuck up and do their job.

1246
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:58,880
Speaker 2: And that's on part what they're doing because they trust

1247
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 2: that the military will be ice from politics. So we're

1248
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:03,799
Speaker 2: at this new normal now right where they can't trust

1249
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 2: that the systems will keep things in check and that

1250
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 2: Congress will function normally. So I don't think honestly, Steve,

1251
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 2: like you might get him a Craven, or you might

1252
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 2: get a Kelly, or you might get Millie. But don't

1253
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:16,839
Speaker 2: hold your breath. I think you're more likely to see

1254
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 2: kind of like a next generation AOC. You use her

1255
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:22,360
Speaker 2: as an example because she came out of nowhere, she

1256
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 2: was so talented. You might see a sergeant. You might

1257
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 2: see a John Kerry, right, like someone who captivates the

1258
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 2: country and is able to communicate in a masterful way.

1259
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 2: Like you look at the school shootings, right, some of

1260
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 2: the kids that came out of the school shootings. I

1261
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 2: think people are always looking to the senior leaders. I

1262
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:39,800
Speaker 2: think there are some young people that know how to

1263
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 2: play this game, that know how to do the multimedia landscape,

1264
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 2: and those are the folks that are going to emerge

1265
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:47,680
Speaker 2: very quickly and become like instant superstars.

1266
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 1: Do you think, obviously I would if I was president,

1267
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 1: not nominate Ron DeSantis to be the Secretary of Defense.

1268
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:01,719
Speaker 1: But do you process to Santis and hag Seth as

1269
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 1: materially different.

1270
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:07,559
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, because Heggseth has built his entire life for this.

1271
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 2: He's been built for You would vote.

1272
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 1: If you were a senator, you would vote to confirm

1273
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 1: the Santas.

1274
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 2: Probably not, but you know, I mean, I don't know.

1275
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 2: I'd have to see how the hearings go. And let's see.

1276
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:20,000
Speaker 2: I mean, bron De Santas has never said he wanted

1277
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 2: to be Defense secretary. So I think everybody should at

1278
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 2: a minimum say they want to be in and explain

1279
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 2: why and argue why they're qualified. Right. I think here's.

1280
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 1: The point I'm trying to I'm trying to get.

1281
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:32,599
Speaker 2: He's much less. Right if you had somebody like Joni Ertz,

1282
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 2: obviously Jony Ertz, you know, you can also run the

1283
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:37,599
Speaker 2: clock out. You can say no to all of them

1284
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:40,759
Speaker 2: and just jam up the works. Right, that's another strategy.

1285
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 1: I'm asking you the question. I'm trying to get a

1286
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:46,000
Speaker 1: gauge on where you are, like dispositionally on the issue,

1287
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:46,320
Speaker 1: like for.

1288
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:49,480
Speaker 2: Me, I mean infinitely better than hegseth.

1289
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:52,160
Speaker 1: Like for me, right, Like my disposition on this is

1290
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:57,320
Speaker 1: that presidential elections have consequences, that there is an advice

1291
01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 1: and consent, and right that means you get to say, well,

1292
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 1: you know I wouldn't pick them, but you know I

1293
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 1: didn't run, and if you're the Democrats, we didn't win. Right,

1294
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 1: So so for example, I'll give you a preposterous pick

1295
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 1: that I would vote for, right is Kimberly Guilfoil. I

1296
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 1: would vote for Kimberly first Teocretary, Yeah, I would.

1297
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:23,360
Speaker 2: I would vote secretary.

1298
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:25,840
Speaker 1: I would vote for Kimberly. I would vote for Kimberly

1299
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 1: to be Ambassador to Greece if I was a senator

1300
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 1: in my like, under my theory, under my theory of

1301
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:35,800
Speaker 1: this right, I would use my nose sparing that I'd

1302
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,559
Speaker 1: be like, the American people have voted for this. It's like,

1303
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:41,599
Speaker 1: it's not like any of this shit's a surprise, right,

1304
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:44,040
Speaker 1: any of these freak shows that he's going to play.

1305
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:46,439
Speaker 1: So I would be like, I'd be like, yeah, I just.

1306
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:48,519
Speaker 2: Think at the end of the day, what Trump is

1307
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 2: trying to do is wear everybody out. And yeah, some

1308
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 2: people might be going along to get along, some people

1309
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:55,440
Speaker 2: might pick their spots. But if you have a functioning

1310
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 2: opposition party, you've got all those different spokes working together. Right,

1311
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:01,559
Speaker 2: You've got somebody who's going to be the radical who's

1312
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:03,160
Speaker 2: going to put the hold on it. You got somebody

1313
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:05,640
Speaker 2: who's going to be a tough sell, somebody who's going

1314
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:08,280
Speaker 2: to be right away, right, But all that's supposed to

1315
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:10,599
Speaker 2: work in concert together, and you don't have that now.

1316
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 2: So for me, if I'm a US senator, I'm betting

1317
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:15,040
Speaker 2: the shit out of every of them, all of them.

1318
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:18,040
Speaker 2: None of them are acceptable until I'm proven otherwise. So

1319
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 2: many of them are not just not qualified, like openly disqualified, right,

1320
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 2: conflict of interest as an example, Like if you lower

1321
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:28,280
Speaker 2: the standards on any level, it becomes easier across the board.

1322
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 2: And I think that's why, yes, advice and consent, but

1323
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:35,320
Speaker 2: also every candidate is supposed to get a certain level

1324
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 2: of rigor and and we can't let him overwhelm.

1325
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 1: The system, right, So like my right, So for example,

1326
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 1: like pamp Bondy, right, pamp Bondi is a registered Katari agent,

1327
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:47,960
Speaker 1: so like to.

1328
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:50,280
Speaker 2: Me, the qualifying right, he just can't.

1329
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:53,960
Speaker 1: Be the Attorney general, right, that's totally disqualifying.

1330
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:55,760
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, so she boom, there you go. All you

1331
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 2: have to do in these people right now, honestly is

1332
01:13:57,520 --> 01:14:00,959
Speaker 2: like find out what disqualifies it, right, and what everybody's

1333
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 2: doing on hegseet that's really important. And I keep going

1334
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:06,320
Speaker 2: back to this, like the example was set, Jony Urt's

1335
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 2: got smashed, right, she stuck her head up. She was reasonable, Well,

1336
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 2: you cannot be reasonable right now, You're gonna get smashed.

1337
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 2: They'll threaten the primary you. And she said, okay. Now,

1338
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:17,519
Speaker 2: what she's basically saying is I'll wait till the confirmation hearings,

1339
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:19,639
Speaker 2: which is also the way of saying, I'll wait four

1340
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:22,240
Speaker 2: more weeks to see if any other crazy shit comes out, right,

1341
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:25,160
Speaker 2: And that is probably a more strategic way to approach

1342
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 2: this because people haven't been nominated this far ahead with

1343
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:31,920
Speaker 2: this much crap, right, So there's a lesson learned there, right,

1344
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:34,760
Speaker 2: which is weight. But at the same time, will you

1345
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 2: be able to adequately evaluate Heckset while you've got six

1346
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:41,719
Speaker 2: other nominees happening because he is trying to overwhelm the system,

1347
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:44,439
Speaker 2: and people have to stay vigilant. They have to uphold

1348
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 2: that their honor, and they have to hold the line

1349
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 2: for the American people who elected them to do this.

1350
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:56,920
Speaker 1: I think that we are in store for some extraordinary times,

1351
01:14:57,040 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 1: out of which will come reform and renewal, and the

1352
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:14,000
Speaker 1: American people will awaken. But sometimes suffering must be experiential

1353
01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:17,680
Speaker 1: in order to be believed. And I think there's a

1354
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:23,280
Speaker 1: real lack of imagination in the United States about the

1355
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 1: nature of terribleness and on COVID doesn't measure up on

1356
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 1: the scale with what's coming potentially, And I think it's

1357
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 1: really frightening. And indifference is really what you're talking about

1358
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:44,960
Speaker 1: at the corporal and I think that the fighting spirit

1359
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 1: that you bring to the table is something that's you know,

1360
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:51,920
Speaker 1: really really important, and you know, encourage people to get involved,

1361
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:57,440
Speaker 1: to support independent veterans for America and to be engaged

1362
01:15:57,680 --> 01:15:59,080
Speaker 1: in politics.

1363
01:15:59,160 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 2: Right.

1364
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:02,799
Speaker 1: It doesn't belong to the Democratic Party, doesn't belong to Trump,

1365
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:06,919
Speaker 1: doesn't belong to the Republican Party, and the American citizen

1366
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 1: has a lot of recourse, has a lot of power,

1367
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:14,480
Speaker 1: has a lot of rights to stand up and organize

1368
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:18,320
Speaker 1: and to make a difference. And what we're about to

1369
01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:20,880
Speaker 1: enter into, I think is a great age and a

1370
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:24,680
Speaker 1: great era of taking where we see people take as

1371
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:28,160
Speaker 1: much as they can take until somebody puts a stop

1372
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:33,200
Speaker 1: to it. And that will always ultimately happen because one

1373
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 1: of the things that's almost providentially been true about the

1374
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:38,680
Speaker 1: country is the right people have stepped up at the

1375
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:42,280
Speaker 1: right times or have found their way in the right

1376
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 1: moments at the right time into positions where they were

1377
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:49,160
Speaker 1: able to stop the things that needed to be to

1378
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:52,200
Speaker 1: be stopped. None of those people have been perfect people,

1379
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:56,760
Speaker 1: and the ones that are coming aren't going to be

1380
01:16:56,880 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 1: perfect either, but they are out there. Uh. When you

1381
01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:04,320
Speaker 1: when you look at what's what's coming down the pike,

1382
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:07,160
Speaker 1: there's gonna need to be a lot of really committed,

1383
01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:11,960
Speaker 1: conviction based opposition to it. We found ourselves in a

1384
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:15,360
Speaker 1: terrible place right now in this in this country, and

1385
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:17,599
Speaker 1: in the first rule of holes is when you find

1386
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:21,120
Speaker 1: yourself in one, stop fucking digging. And if you look

1387
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:25,680
Speaker 1: at the last couple of weeks, every person who's capitulated

1388
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 1: to Trump and claim they did it for us while

1389
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:35,759
Speaker 1: practicing the gospel of self interest has nuped themselves, whether

1390
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:39,160
Speaker 1: it be justin Trudeau in Canada, whether it be Morning Joe,

1391
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:42,919
Speaker 1: whether it be the ABC News division.

1392
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:43,639
Speaker 2: And so.

1393
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:48,599
Speaker 1: It's gonna be interesting to see, I think, in the

1394
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 1: months ahead where that line gets established and where people

1395
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:55,839
Speaker 1: fight it out. But I'm with Paul one hundred percent

1396
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:59,120
Speaker 1: and couldn't agree more. I'll give you the last word here, Paul,

1397
01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:02,360
Speaker 1: But you know it's the Secretary of Defense. I was

1398
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:05,640
Speaker 1: having a discussion. I don't think he'll he'll mind me

1399
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 1: sharing it. It was about the hypothetical of, well, if

1400
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:13,600
Speaker 1: you could only stop one of Trump's like most unfit nominees,

1401
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:17,560
Speaker 1: who would it be? And as I've had this conversation

1402
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 1: with people, and the guy was having it with with

1403
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:23,400
Speaker 1: John Nichols at the at the Nation magazine, who's as

1404
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 1: as smart and as decent a guy as there is,

1405
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:29,280
Speaker 1: And a lot of people are talking about go go

1406
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:31,800
Speaker 1: to Tulsi Gabbard and you're like, well, obviously it's stop

1407
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:35,679
Speaker 1: Tulsi Gabbard and John and I agreed with each other,

1408
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 1: which is that we followed the bread crumbs to the

1409
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:41,280
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons, right that the person who's in the chain

1410
01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:46,240
Speaker 1: of command with our five four hundred and thirteen nuclear warheads,

1411
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 1: that's the person that we would focus our attention on.

1412
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 1: So I think you're completely right. You have the most

1413
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:57,120
Speaker 1: unfit person that has ever been nominated for a position

1414
01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:03,040
Speaker 1: of responsibility within the National Command already a legitimately accused rapist,

1415
01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:08,360
Speaker 1: a person who clearly has a drinking problem, a person

1416
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:11,800
Speaker 1: who's been condemned by his mother, of all people, as

1417
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:17,200
Speaker 1: being abusive to women, who is disqualified from inaugural service

1418
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:22,640
Speaker 1: because of the white nationalists tattoos on his chest a

1419
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:29,040
Speaker 1: Fox mourning television host and polemicist who is a divider,

1420
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:35,520
Speaker 1: and who is an inciter, and who is unfit morally, mentally,

1421
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:41,400
Speaker 1: spiritually to preside over In the end, what is a

1422
01:19:41,439 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 1: position that requires some degree of moral authority at least?

1423
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 1: And so it is an urgent mission to stop denomination.

1424
01:19:52,280 --> 01:19:56,240
Speaker 1: It must be stopped, it must be opposed. The dignity

1425
01:19:56,320 --> 01:20:03,639
Speaker 1: of the armed forces of the United States is at stake.

1426
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:07,439
Speaker 1: And this last point MacArthur talked about this in that

1427
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:13,200
Speaker 1: sixty two speech, is that the military and the American soldier,

1428
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:18,519
Speaker 1: and the legacy of the American soldiers MacArthur talked about

1429
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:22,400
Speaker 1: does not belong to the military, nor even to the

1430
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:27,360
Speaker 1: veteran belongs to the nation. And in the nation, the

1431
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:36,200
Speaker 1: nation should be revolted, revolted by the idea of Pete

1432
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:41,560
Speaker 1: Hags athleteing the Pentagon. So I have been as outspoken

1433
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:47,439
Speaker 1: as a person could be about Donald Trump, and two

1434
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 1: out of three times he ran, more voters agreed with

1435
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:56,360
Speaker 1: me than with him. One of those times he sliced

1436
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 1: it through the electoral college. But on one of those times,

1437
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm in the minormal position and you're in the minority position.

1438
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 1: A plurality of our people in a country have bestowed

1439
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:11,240
Speaker 1: lawful authority to Donald Trump, and he's going to be

1440
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:14,840
Speaker 1: the commander in chief. And we have we have an

1441
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:18,680
Speaker 1: active force of over a million young men and women primarily.

1442
01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:22,400
Speaker 1: We have people all over the world in harm's way,

1443
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 1: doing dangerous things. We got another million people roughly in

1444
01:21:29,200 --> 01:21:32,519
Speaker 1: the reserves, in the national in the National Guard. He

1445
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 1: could be called on uh to do difficult and dangerous things.

1446
01:21:37,439 --> 01:21:46,919
Speaker 1: And these people deserve respect, and they deserve competent able

1447
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:56,200
Speaker 1: moral leadership. And and Donald Trump was not elected to

1448
01:21:56,520 --> 01:22:01,479
Speaker 1: vandalize these places. He was he was, according to him,

1449
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:04,559
Speaker 1: to make them great again. And there's and there's no

1450
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:10,680
Speaker 1: formulation where placing a drunk and accused rapist into a

1451
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:16,639
Speaker 1: position that Pete Hagsath is being placed into makes anything

1452
01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:19,920
Speaker 1: great again. It's one purpose, which is the fucking record.

1453
01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:22,720
Speaker 1: And and with that, let me let me give you

1454
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:26,439
Speaker 1: the last word here and tell people by all means

1455
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:27,479
Speaker 1: where they can find it.

1456
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:34,080
Speaker 2: Well, Happy holidays, everybody still listening. Uh. You know, Steve

1457
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:37,360
Speaker 2: has called this show the warning. I hope that we've

1458
01:22:37,400 --> 01:22:40,360
Speaker 2: moved beyond the warning and are now into the action

1459
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:44,200
Speaker 2: phase because you know your your after action review military

1460
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:47,120
Speaker 2: comparison is a good one. But you also don't always

1461
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:49,719
Speaker 2: have time to do an AR because you're still deep

1462
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:52,000
Speaker 2: in it, and we are still deep in it. And

1463
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:54,360
Speaker 2: I think that's what I would ask everyone to remember,

1464
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:57,560
Speaker 2: is that you know, vigilance is the price of democracy,

1465
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:00,280
Speaker 2: and we've got to be vigilant right now or the

1466
01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:04,720
Speaker 2: holidays and always, and it requires just basic citizenship and

1467
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:08,280
Speaker 2: being aware of what's happening. So I think vigilance is

1468
01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:12,240
Speaker 2: what's required now. It has to transcend party. It's about

1469
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:14,080
Speaker 2: you know what I said, the principal test? Are you

1470
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:16,360
Speaker 2: okay with these people being your principal? And if you

1471
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:19,599
Speaker 2: need another test, okay? The nuke test also a good one,

1472
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:21,519
Speaker 2: right is this a person who'd be fit to have

1473
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:25,599
Speaker 2: control over our nukes? In contrast, Eve after we finish,

1474
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:29,160
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go record my annual Festivus episode of Independent

1475
01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:32,519
Speaker 2: Americans with Jason Alexander, who is actually a very very

1476
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,720
Speaker 2: deep and thoughtful guy, a great he's a grandfather, and

1477
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:38,439
Speaker 2: I'm gonna ask him about America because I think we

1478
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:41,880
Speaker 2: need all voices right now to help us, to soothe us,

1479
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:44,160
Speaker 2: to guide us. But it's a time to go back

1480
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:46,480
Speaker 2: to wisdom. It's a time to go back to values.

1481
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:49,519
Speaker 2: It's a time to go back to family and just

1482
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:51,760
Speaker 2: look at all these issues through the lens of your

1483
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:54,840
Speaker 2: family around the holidays. I don't know how many people

1484
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:57,320
Speaker 2: would be excited about Pete Hegseth sitting at the kids

1485
01:23:57,400 --> 01:24:00,439
Speaker 2: table for your holiday. I would not be. I would

1486
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:03,080
Speaker 2: have them under guard. Watch if you next to my kids,

1487
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:05,760
Speaker 2: or next to my wallet, or next to my wife. Right.

1488
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 2: But I do think that there are amazing people in

1489
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:10,960
Speaker 2: this country who will rise to the moment. I don't

1490
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:13,639
Speaker 2: know who they are, but I know that independence especially

1491
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:16,400
Speaker 2: are well positioned to be those people. If anybody's listening

1492
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:19,320
Speaker 2: and they're an independent veteran, go to Independent Veterans of

1493
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:21,800
Speaker 2: America dot org. We want you, And if you're not

1494
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:25,000
Speaker 2: interested in running, you can help support those who are.

1495
01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:28,680
Speaker 2: Check out Independent Americans dot us. You can get it

1496
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:32,000
Speaker 2: on YouTube and Spotify and everywhere else. You get Steve's show,

1497
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:35,600
Speaker 2: and we're going to keep this conversation going. But you

1498
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 2: can't give up, right And I don't think you can

1499
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:41,280
Speaker 2: give up an inch of your integrity. And that's ultimately

1500
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:43,439
Speaker 2: what this is all about is about the integrity of

1501
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 2: our country and looking our kids in the eye and

1502
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:47,639
Speaker 2: telling them what you did during this time. I think

1503
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:51,960
Speaker 2: we're going through something, Steve, that I would call a political, cultural,

1504
01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:56,160
Speaker 2: intellectual depression. It's going to be a great depression, and

1505
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:57,880
Speaker 2: we've got to figure out how are you going to

1506
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 2: get through the great depression that you heard your grandparents

1507
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:02,400
Speaker 2: it's talk about. That's what we're facing, and we're gonna

1508
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:04,360
Speaker 2: have to strap in and get ready for it. But

1509
01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:06,400
Speaker 2: we will endure and we can get through it if

1510
01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:08,439
Speaker 2: we stick together and look out for each other, and

1511
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:10,799
Speaker 2: most of all, just remember that that we're in it together.

1512
01:25:11,160 --> 01:25:14,160
Speaker 2: And it does transcend party lines, especially around the holidays.

1513
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:16,760
Speaker 2: It's a good reminder don't let the bastards get you down,

1514
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:19,200
Speaker 2: and don't let this guy divide us like be nice

1515
01:25:19,200 --> 01:25:21,800
Speaker 2: to each other and be kind and focus on the

1516
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:24,760
Speaker 2: future and we can pull this one out in the

1517
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:28,280
Speaker 2: late innings and live to fight another day. So thank you,

1518
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:33,600
Speaker 2: Steve for the forum, Thank you for and happy holidays.

1519
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:36,439
Speaker 2: Shut the news off once in a while, okay, and

1520
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:38,639
Speaker 2: try to take care of yourself as you would in combat.

1521
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:41,679
Speaker 2: Make sure you're eating, make sure you're sleeping, spend time

1522
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:44,040
Speaker 2: with family, because you got to brace yourself for a

1523
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:47,040
Speaker 2: long fight. That's what we're in for. And we just

1524
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:48,400
Speaker 2: got to outlast Trump.

1525
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:52,880
Speaker 1: All right off, everybody, great American patriot, great veteran, great

1526
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:57,519
Speaker 1: future leader in the American political fight that is far far, far,

1527
01:25:57,800 --> 01:25:59,800
Speaker 1: far far far from over.

1528
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:02,840
Speaker 2: Thank you, Steve, Merry Christmas.

1529
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:05,960
Speaker 1: I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the warning and I invite

1530
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:10,200
Speaker 1: you to join. Subscribe on our substack, on our YouTube channel,

1531
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:15,680
Speaker 1: follow us. Welcome to the community.