Speaker 1: Orlan.
Speaker 2: Dear listener, it's Maria no Hossan. Now you know me
Speaker 2: as the host of this show, but I want you
Speaker 2: to know that I also co host In the Thick,
Speaker 2: which is our sister politics podcast here at Futuro Media.
Speaker 2: It's a show where we talk politics unfiltered. So as
Speaker 2: we get out of the haze of the presidential election,
Speaker 2: we thought we'd bring you this special episode of In
Speaker 2: the Thick for you, our dear Leatino USA listener. In
Speaker 2: this episode, I speak with Imara Jones. She's a journalist
Speaker 2: and podcast host as well as the founder of Translash Media,
Speaker 2: and we also are joined by a badass, the Washington
Speaker 2: Post columnist Karen Atia. We're going to talk all about
Speaker 2: what the Democratic Party got wrong, the nationwide shift to
Speaker 2: the right, how we understand this, what comes up, and
Speaker 2: what comes next. So I want you to enjoy this episode,
Speaker 2: and please, dear listener, subscribe to In the Thick wherever
Speaker 2: you get your podcasts. Let's go to the tape, dear listener,
Speaker 2: Welcome to In the Thick. Yes, I know, I know,
Speaker 2: but that's why we're here, because we're going to talk
Speaker 2: about it. We're one week since this election, I'm joined
Speaker 2: by two award winning journalists and it all stars. They're
Speaker 2: going to help us navigate what we're figuring out, what
Speaker 2: we're looking for, how we move forward. Joining us from Brooklyn,
Speaker 2: we have the founder of Translash, media journalist and podcast host,
Speaker 2: yes Imaida Jones back on the show. Welcome back, Imada.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: And joining us from Dallas, Texas, Washington Post opinions columnist
Speaker 2: Karen Attia.
Speaker 1: Karen, great to have you on the show.
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me, Maria, good to be here.
Speaker 2: This is politics unfiltered. Let's get into it, Karen, Imaa.
Speaker 2: It's been just over a week since Donald Trump's victory.
Speaker 2: It's a night that sparked a historic right word shift
Speaker 2: in our country. The election results gave us this new
Speaker 2: insight into a changing American political landscape right and we're
Speaker 2: all sitting with it and taking it in. Republicans, well,
Speaker 2: they had a sweeping victory. It stretched from rural America
Speaker 2: into urban centers, even one's long thought to be Democratic strongholds,
Speaker 2: even in Manhattan, for God's sakes, election night also marked
Speaker 2: a historic moment of failure for the Democratic Party. So
Speaker 2: let's look at some numbers.
Speaker 5: Here.
Speaker 2: Republicans won a bigger share of votes in every state
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four than they did in twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: and won every single swing state. Exit polls showed that
Speaker 2: forty six percent of Latinos forty six percent of all
Speaker 2: Latinos voted for Trump, and Latino men specifically, they voted
Speaker 2: at a rate of fifty five percent, and that's compared
Speaker 2: to just thirty six percent of Latino male voters for
Speaker 2: Trump in twenty twenty. Vice President Harris received two million
Speaker 2: fewer votes than Biden did. In twenty twenty, Harris only
Speaker 2: held an eight point margin among women voters, the Democrats
Speaker 2: smallest margin since two thousand and four. And this despite
Speaker 2: the fact that ninety one percent of Black women voted
Speaker 2: for Harris, while fifty three percent of white women voted
Speaker 2: for Trump. A majority of white women voted.
Speaker 1: For Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: For many of us on this podcast, this is a
Speaker 2: victory that has really deep implications in terms of our
Speaker 2: understanding of the country that we live in and how
Speaker 2: we move forward. You know, I mean, we're all feeling it.
Speaker 2: So very first thing is a temperature check. So it's
Speaker 2: how you're feeling today, Karen, your temperature check what's your
Speaker 2: emotional state.
Speaker 5: Honestly, I've been spending the last couple of days, first
Speaker 5: of all, consciously uncoupling from Twitter slash x that healscape
Speaker 5: of a site, and I think I've just been in
Speaker 5: a mindset.
Speaker 4: Of being extremely upset.
Speaker 5: With how the election turned out, but not surprised. I'm
Speaker 5: joining y'all from Texas, right and I'm back here when
Speaker 5: week after the election. In so many ways, I'm reminded
Speaker 5: of the things that I saw here in the years
Speaker 5: that I was living here before this year, So I'm
Speaker 5: not entirely shocked at the direction this country is going.
Speaker 4: I guess for me personally, I'm just going to be
Speaker 4: using a lot of this time.
Speaker 5: To really deeply reflect and spend a lot more time
Speaker 5: in the gym, because I think what is happening now
Speaker 5: is a bigger energetic vibe shift that is bigger than
Speaker 5: the election, and that goes to an identity shift, an
Speaker 5: identity crisis for America. So as we're figuring that out,
Speaker 5: I think it's time to just really get grounded in community,
Speaker 5: spirituality and keeping ourselves healthy and finding joy where we
Speaker 5: can as we navigate.
Speaker 2: This preach and Karen and I our Instagram workout admirers.
Speaker 2: MY dream is to one day work out with you
Speaker 2: like that's going. I'm gonna make that will happen. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna make that happen in twenty twenty five. Emata your
Speaker 2: temperature check my dear.
Speaker 6: So if I was a thermometer, I think I would
Speaker 6: be running slightly hot today when most of last week
Speaker 6: I was pretty pretty even caln.
Speaker 3: I think that more than anything, I.
Speaker 6: Feel annoyed by the mad scramble that's happening when some
Speaker 6: of us have been reporting counseling, advising warning for years
Speaker 6: and haven't been heard like we should have been, and
Speaker 6: then now the phone is ringing off the hook, and
Speaker 6: that is particularly irritating. I would also say that I
Speaker 6: am deeply It's okay, honey, Yeah, I would say that
Speaker 6: I am deeply enraged. I think it's quiet rage, though
Speaker 6: that's what it is. At what is happening in the
Speaker 6: mainstream press. I think the inability to hold white people
Speaker 6: accountable for white people's actions and choices and to instead
Speaker 6: say that, for example, Kambla Harris lost because of trans people,
Speaker 6: and also the rush even amongst places that are supposedly
Speaker 6: more open to conversation amongst Democrats to fall in line
Speaker 6: with the looming authoritarian regime, I think means that there's
Speaker 6: just going to be to Karen's point, and thank god
Speaker 6: for Karen's writing in the post. By the way, you
Speaker 6: know it's going to be a massive realignment. And I
Speaker 6: think in every single way.
Speaker 2: I'm all of that. You know, for me, the worst
Speaker 2: points right, It's just like you devoted your career to
Speaker 2: trying to give a community a complexity that would be
Speaker 2: Latinos in general, Like they're complex, you can't count on them,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, not being heard right,
Speaker 2: always being criticized by the right and the left. But
Speaker 2: you know that is what it is. On the issue
Speaker 2: of immigration, just like seeing this horror play out, which
Speaker 2: is like, this is your worst fucking nightmare in the world.
Speaker 1: It's the reason why your father.
Speaker 2: Didn't want to come to this country, right damn it
Speaker 2: did want to cry.
Speaker 1: But between like that, and.
Speaker 2: Also I'm just like, Okay, put on your big girl
Speaker 2: boots and what were you going to do in the
Speaker 2: upcoming four years if Kamala Harris had one? Were you
Speaker 2: just going to be like lounging different context because we
Speaker 2: wouldn't feel like we're moving into authoritarianism, fascism, outright racism,
Speaker 2: gestapo tactics, et cetera, et cetera. But I'm also not
Speaker 2: going to lay down. I'm just not I'm like, okay, here,
Speaker 2: I am, I'm back. I'm waking up at six, working out,
Speaker 2: eating healthy, giving myself the pause one hundred percent, but
Speaker 2: then getting ready.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad. I'm so glad that we had that
Speaker 2: moment to just unleash. And I think the one thing
Speaker 2: that I'm very uncomfortable it is the amount of anger
Speaker 2: and what we're going to do with that, and certainly
Speaker 2: for black women to be pissed off as hell with
Speaker 2: everyone in the entire country and world.
Speaker 6: Well, black women have to save ourselves. Eat first and foremost,
Speaker 6: because no one cares about black women like other women.
Speaker 3: Let's just be honest.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So that's first and foremost, and yeah, everyone else
Speaker 6: will have to figure it out.
Speaker 1: And that's where we are.
Speaker 2: You know, thank you for producing this insanity, voters of
Speaker 2: the United States of America. But we are here, and
Speaker 2: we want black women to take care of themselves, especially
Speaker 2: in this moment. First, I just want to ask the
Speaker 2: both of you if you can break down how you
Speaker 2: understand this victory was his campaigning effective in terms of
Speaker 2: speaking to an American electorate. Let's start with you, Karen,
Speaker 2: and then we'll hear from you Emeta.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think a lot, a lot, a lot of things
Speaker 5: are at play, right, And I have to keep in
Speaker 5: mind Trump for a lot of people, including you know,
Speaker 5: I have to say I have Trump supporters even in
Speaker 5: my family who.
Speaker 2: Are black and live in Texas.
Speaker 1: Just so we're clear.
Speaker 5: Core wrets and immigrants, So okay. I think for me,
Speaker 5: my own sort of lived experience defies a lot of
Speaker 5: the perhaps myths, particularly that liberals have tended to have
Speaker 5: about about immigrants and about sort of the black and
Speaker 5: browning of America, that it would automatically lead to this
Speaker 5: conclusion that this would be bad for Republicans, right, And
Speaker 5: I have to keep in mind that Trump has been
Speaker 5: in my life as a cultural figure pretty much ever
Speaker 5: since I was born, ever since, like I don't know,
Speaker 5: in the nineteen nineties, Home alone and Trump in the
Speaker 5: cultural zeitgeist has represented to a lot of people this
Speaker 5: idea of power, money, success, and frankly, what it means
Speaker 5: to be a completely free man, free of shame, free
Speaker 5: of the shackles of poverty. And he's less a candidate
Speaker 5: than this aspirational almost frankly, and I know we don't
Speaker 5: like to talk about it, but almost a religious figure.
Speaker 5: And the times that I've been in the same room
Speaker 5: with him or same space, whether it's been at the
Speaker 5: RNC in Cleveland in twenty sixteen or meeting him as
Speaker 5: part of the editorial board in the Washington Post or
Speaker 5: at NYBJ the National Association of Journalists this year, which
Speaker 5: I decided to resign from after the decision to invite
Speaker 5: him to speak. And what people don't understand is he
Speaker 5: has this sort of presence and power and charisma that
Speaker 5: he plays this character as somebody who grew up watching
Speaker 5: Monday Night Wrestling, where Trump was also on there.
Speaker 4: He is extremely.
Speaker 5: Good at quote unquote, as you say, playing the heel right,
Speaker 5: and America loves the heel, loves a figure that is
Speaker 5: willing to be the underdog in a sense, take on
Speaker 5: the power establishment and act on instinct and do what
Speaker 5: he wants.
Speaker 4: He's a bully, but people like it.
Speaker 5: Who knows, maybe I'm like burying a lot of my
Speaker 5: feelings and anger and rage, and please believe, I'm not
Speaker 5: trying to excuse people who buy into this, but I
Speaker 5: get it. And when I look at this election outcome,
Speaker 5: even when I look at how simple his slogan was,
Speaker 5: make America great Again, how simple it was for people
Speaker 5: to signal belonging to a community.
Speaker 4: Around him wearing those red hats.
Speaker 5: The red hat has become a signifier, right, a community
Speaker 5: builder in a way for people, and people both feel
Speaker 5: empowered by him and yet also completely the underdog, victimized
Speaker 5: by the elites, by the media, when really these are
Speaker 5: also people struggling under the economy who feel that it's
Speaker 5: okay to take out that anger, those feelings on minorities,
Speaker 5: on women, on trans people.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of factors. I also point back to just.
Speaker 5: The rise of right wing media and radio and right
Speaker 5: male anger is this seductive thing here in this country.
Speaker 5: The fact that the right wing has captured combat sports UFC,
Speaker 5: pro wrestling, which is where a lot of.
Speaker 4: Men, young men, young white men.
Speaker 5: Form communities, form this idol worship. It makes a lot
Speaker 5: of intuitive sense to me. That's the only way I
Speaker 5: can put it. I'm not saying it's right.
Speaker 2: So the Democrats then just a quick take, Karen on
Speaker 2: the Democrats and on how you see their role.
Speaker 5: I think the Democrats suffer from still suffer from assuming
Speaker 5: that people will be swayed by facts and policy by
Speaker 5: the head in some ways. And the Republicans have figured
Speaker 5: out how to appeal to something in the bone spirit
Speaker 5: of people, even if it's not it. And I think
Speaker 5: the Democrats kind of swinging back and forth. It's like,
Speaker 5: are you the party of civil rights and peace and
Speaker 5: diplomacy or are you the party of endless warm bombing children.
Speaker 1: In Gaza Imada? Your take on?
Speaker 2: The Democrats lost this and the Republicans want it. What's
Speaker 2: the takeaway?
Speaker 6: This election revealed the deep, unresolved character flaw that haunted
Speaker 6: America from its inception, the unfinished business of dealing with
Speaker 6: the tension of being birthed as a slave republic, and
Speaker 6: the fundamental aspect of the slave republic is this notion
Speaker 6: that the way that you get free is by denying
Speaker 6: other people their freedom, that you can destroy others at
Speaker 6: will in order to achieve your means and your goals,
Speaker 6: and that that is especially and only true for people
Speaker 6: who are white. And anytime America in its history has
Speaker 6: come close to burying that idea, not the reality.
Speaker 3: But even the idea.
Speaker 6: The response has been ferocious and extreme, and just to
Speaker 6: bring that forward so that we don't think that this is,
Speaker 6: you know, ancient history.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 6: Professor Carol Anderson from Emmer University, in her book White
Speaker 6: Rage shows how every single year that Barack Obama was
Speaker 6: in office, racist sentiment and then timpathy in the United
Speaker 6: States increased, which means that just the sight of a
Speaker 6: black man and a black family occupying the highest office
Speaker 6: in the land unearthed the reality of the ugly beast
Speaker 6: that is literally right below the soil in the country.
Speaker 6: So I think Donald Trump at his core understands that
Speaker 6: that's how he was raised by his dad, and the
Speaker 6: fact that he is a master marketer and brander, and
Speaker 6: the fact that he lives at a time when, as
Speaker 6: Christaph Friedland said in her book Plutocrats, that we see
Speaker 6: CEOs as the hero of our time. Corresponding with what
Speaker 6: Karen said, I think is almost a toxic and irresistible
Speaker 6: mix in America.
Speaker 3: It's catnip.
Speaker 6: And you put that person against a black woman who
Speaker 6: people do not want to see on high.
Speaker 3: People do not want.
Speaker 6: To wake up every day and see a black woman
Speaker 6: who is powerful and grounded be commander in chief.
Speaker 3: Regardless of her policies.
Speaker 6: By the way, we all know that President Obama's policies
Speaker 6: were fairly conservative, ironically, so this isn't about the policy content.
Speaker 6: This is really a battle over the ideas and the
Speaker 6: fundamental character of the country. And the nation failed its
Speaker 6: character test.
Speaker 2: So my thoughts and I have a lot on what
Speaker 2: the Republicans did and the Democrats, right, So the Republicans again,
Speaker 2: they have a clear message, it's not just make America
Speaker 2: great again, it's build the wall, and build the wall
Speaker 2: means stop it all. Stop the immigrants, stop the refugees,
Speaker 2: stop people speaking Spanish, stop immigrants from moving into my community,
Speaker 2: stop black people from being out there marching, stop trans people,
Speaker 2: stop Gabe, Like build the wall, I want to be
Speaker 2: behind my wall. The horror is that the level of
Speaker 2: missing from and disinformation, which we've reported about at Nauseam
Speaker 2: and please listen to our work on Latino USA, is that,
Speaker 2: you know, witnessing how latinos and latin has actually bought
Speaker 2: into I'm going to vote for a guy that's going
Speaker 2: to start mass deportation. But speaking of the Democrats, You know,
Speaker 2: people get very upset still when I criticize the Democrats
Speaker 2: because they just think I'm a Trump supporter, and I'm
Speaker 2: just like, no, if they had listened, what I was
Speaker 2: trying to say was you need to give a different narrative.
Speaker 2: You cannot out Trump Trump on the issue of immigration
Speaker 2: and what's happening at the border. You need to take
Speaker 2: a completely different take on this. And in terms of
Speaker 2: the economy, the same thing you could have said, the
Speaker 2: reason why economic growth is happening is because we have
Speaker 2: immigrants here. They were scared and they fell into you
Speaker 2: know what's easiest for them, which is, well, what does
Speaker 2: the white man say. What is the straight white male,
Speaker 2: heterosexual Ivy League educated policy analyst, public relations, marketing executive,
Speaker 2: what does he say?
Speaker 1: That's what we're going to do.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 2: Imara, you are the host of several podcasts. You also
Speaker 2: just finished up season three of your investigative podcast it's
Speaker 2: called The Anti Trans Hate Machine, and this season your
Speaker 2: investigation focused on the links between the rise of political
Speaker 2: violence in the United States, far right paramilitary groups and
Speaker 2: anti trans hate. Imara, at this point, what does this
Speaker 2: victory mean for the trans community?
Speaker 7: One?
Speaker 2: What is the threat and how do we respond to it?
Speaker 2: And then how do you see this threat as a
Speaker 2: manifestation of a threat on democracy based on the backs
Speaker 2: of trans people.
Speaker 6: I think that the combination of Donald Trump and the
Speaker 6: fact that the largest single at by the entire campaign
Speaker 6: nearly a quarter of a billion dollars and anti transads
Speaker 6: the biggest advice. They spent more money on that than
Speaker 6: on anything else with prospective advertising, the failure of the
Speaker 6: Democratic Party to respond, and the way in which Democrats
Speaker 6: and the mainstream media have acted in the wake of
Speaker 6: the loss by saying that it was trans people's fault,
Speaker 6: telegraphs to Donald Trump that his desire to put trans
Speaker 6: people on the day one target list means that it
Speaker 6: will be open season on trans people on day one,
Speaker 6: alongside immigrants. The entire rationale for the man's campaign was
Speaker 6: that he would go after immigrants and trans people literally
Speaker 6: the whole campaign, and the country said damn right, we will.
Speaker 1: Stop the indoctrination of your children and we will not
Speaker 1: let them try to change your kid's gender.
Speaker 6: So I think that what it means is there's going
Speaker 6: to be a slew of anti trans administrative actions on
Speaker 6: day one. I think the administrative agencies are going to
Speaker 6: go right to work to try to erase trans people
Speaker 6: from an entire slew of equal protections, including healthcare and housing, employment.
Speaker 6: They can't really do that because there's a Supreme Court case,
Speaker 6: the boss Dot case, which ruled that trans people can't
Speaker 6: be discriminated against. But they can just stop enforcing the
Speaker 6: law correct. And I think trans people are organizing and responding,
Speaker 6: relying on community. I mean, I think that I've been
Speaker 6: warning through four years of reporting. Now this issue was
Speaker 6: teed up by the Christian nationalist movement for the past
Speaker 6: ten years to work exactly how it worked in this election,
Speaker 6: and it did. They know that it works in really
Speaker 6: close elections. They've been teeing up this conversation through an
Speaker 6: entire apparatus. They've spent hundreds of millions of dollars on
Speaker 6: it to bring us to this point. And their strategy
Speaker 6: worked and paid off. And so now we are about
Speaker 6: to usher in authoritarianism in the United States and see
Speaker 6: mass pain like no one alive has witnessed on this scale,
Speaker 6: undoubtedly mass civil instability and unrest because this operation figured
Speaker 6: out how to use trans people and trans issues over
Speaker 6: the past decade to usher in authoritarianism.
Speaker 2: So, Karen, you know we're hearing about this specificity of
Speaker 2: the attacks on the trans community and how much fear
Speaker 2: there is there. You know, you write for the Washington Post, right,
Speaker 2: it's all about Washington politics. What do you think this
Speaker 2: victory means for the future of our democracy?
Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, I think this country is a young democracy.
Speaker 5: I don't think a full democracy is anything but a
Speaker 5: country that gives protections and voice to the most marginalized.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think you know, as a journalist, we're
Speaker 5: seeing definite attacks on the press, We're seeing attacks on organizers.
Speaker 5: I think it's not a coincidence to me that after
Speaker 5: platforms like Twitter were so instrumental in making so many
Speaker 5: of these issues, whether it was racism, police brutality, me too,
Speaker 5: so visible and forcing those issues of America not holding
Speaker 5: up to its promise for black people, for women, for
Speaker 5: trans people.
Speaker 4: To me, it's not a.
Speaker 5: Surprise that the tech brologarchs came in bought up these platforms.
Speaker 5: We now have zucker Birds saying we're not going to
Speaker 5: do politics, We're not going to do news. And to me,
Speaker 5: it is also I think this question, you know, not
Speaker 5: just of our elected officials, but again of our ruling class,
Speaker 5: which yes includes the Elon Musk, the Peter Thiels, the
Speaker 5: Mark Zuckerberds, who have an insane amount of unaccountable power
Speaker 5: over what we see, over what we consume, over what
Speaker 5: we believe to be real, who have leaned to the right,
Speaker 5: who have, I mean, Elon tried to tilt this election
Speaker 5: in favor of Trump, And I think this is going
Speaker 5: to be something that we're going to have to really
Speaker 5: figure out and grapple with as we're moving in this
Speaker 5: increasingly mediated space. I mean, what does it mean for
Speaker 5: a handful of men of white men, a couple of
Speaker 5: South African immigrants who have decided that they want to
Speaker 5: reshape this country into a country that silences the press,
Speaker 5: that wants to elevate high testosterone.
Speaker 4: Men, white men into power.
Speaker 5: Right, when I look at democracy, it's not just about
Speaker 5: elected officials, but it's about the class of wealthy, ultra
Speaker 5: rich billionaires that we have actively working with the fascist
Speaker 5: government and org caving. So what does it mean for
Speaker 5: us to fight back against that. There's a lot of
Speaker 5: news deserts right. This media environment is now less diverse
Speaker 5: than it was in the nineties. It is not an
Speaker 5: accident that newsrooms have been slashing their news staff of
Speaker 5: people of these different backgrounds, Black, Latino, trans So the
Speaker 5: fact that everybody's dumbfounded about what's happening, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 5: no shit, because the people whose job it was to
Speaker 5: interpret and to give voice to these issues, y'all let
Speaker 5: them go because you want to quote unquote appeal to
Speaker 5: your core slash white audience.
Speaker 2: You know, one of the things you mighta obviously the
Speaker 2: reason why in the thing came into existence was to
Speaker 2: have an independent analysis of the politics from a non
Speaker 2: white perspective. Right, we were all the three of us
Speaker 2: basically yelling and screaming, this is not a normal election,
Speaker 2: this is not a normal party, not a normal candidate.
Speaker 2: So final question, what has been the role of mainstream
Speaker 2: media and helping to make this all happen?
Speaker 3: Oh boy.
Speaker 6: I think that if you see yourself as a part
Speaker 6: of the establishment, then your role is to preserve the
Speaker 6: established order. If you see yourself in the role of
Speaker 6: preserving the established order, that any perceived threats to that
Speaker 6: order will be marginalized, period, full stop. And I think
Speaker 6: that one of the issues is that a part of
Speaker 6: the established order is that there are two parties, you
Speaker 6: treat them a certain way and you don't actually listen
Speaker 6: to the content of what they're saying. You know, there's
Speaker 6: a president, whoever the president is, you report on them
Speaker 6: in a certain way, so you're just actually publicizing and
Speaker 6: lifting up the conversation that the established order tells you.
Speaker 6: So when you have a major party that's captured by
Speaker 6: an extremist movement, you just keep doing the same thing.
Speaker 6: And what you've end up doing is to legitimize those
Speaker 6: extremist views because you just cover them like everything else.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you, Emara or Karen are of
Speaker 2: the Birdwatcher team, but before I came to record, there
Speaker 2: was a golden eagle circling in front of me over
Speaker 2: this lake, just circling. And I didn't call anyone. I
Speaker 2: didn't say to my family, come and look. I didn't
Speaker 2: take out my phone. I just sat and I watched her,
Speaker 2: and I was like, you're telling me something. I don't
Speaker 2: know what, but I guess the joy was to be
Speaker 2: able to witness that I feel joy just from the
Speaker 2: power of nature, Like that's basically keeping me going. Start
Speaker 2: with you, just a quick take on what's bringing you joy,
Speaker 2: what you are actively doing to find it how you
Speaker 2: have found it.
Speaker 5: Hopefully this weekend I'll be going out into nature. I've
Speaker 5: rededicated myself to movie time martial arts. It brings me
Speaker 5: a lot of joy and grounding. You punch and kick
Speaker 5: things and not to stop, but frankly community Like right
Speaker 5: now I'm working on feeling grounded spiritually and physically and yeah,
Speaker 5: actually dancing like kind of like cranking up the music
Speaker 5: and dancing in my pajamas to I remembery myself once
Speaker 5: in a while. I actually think right now, creativity artists,
Speaker 5: people who are tapped into something deeper than just kind
Speaker 5: of the intellectual politics.
Speaker 4: I feel like they're.
Speaker 5: The ones that the profits the astrologers.
Speaker 4: I think the.
Speaker 5: Creatives who are unbound are going to be the ones
Speaker 5: who are going to help us and see us through.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love that so much.
Speaker 2: Take us out, my dear lovely sister, something that is
Speaker 2: bringing you joy.
Speaker 3: One of things I just.
Speaker 6: Want to say is that when you mentioned that you
Speaker 6: saw the image of an eagle circling, it made me
Speaker 6: think of the emblem of Mexico and the ego eats
Speaker 6: the snake on the Mexican.
Speaker 8: Flag, drop in the Mike, Yo, there's Karen all like
Speaker 8: y'all need to be spiritual, and there's Amara like, well, hello,
Speaker 8: it's right in front.
Speaker 3: Of you, Yo, it's right in front of you. The
Speaker 3: ego eats the snake.
Speaker 4: I got chills just now.
Speaker 6: I'm really into science fiction and speculative fiction and fantasy,
Speaker 6: and those worlds and those imaginings are really really helpful
Speaker 6: at times like this because there's so many ways in
Speaker 6: which a lot of things that we're going to be
Speaker 6: facing are modeled into that. And so I think that
Speaker 6: one of the things I was thinking about last week was,
Speaker 6: you know, all of the challenges.
Speaker 3: What we could have done, what we couldn't have done, And.
Speaker 6: I was like, but you know, at least, one of
Speaker 6: the things that I think is really helping me right
Speaker 6: now and stay grounded is that I don't have a
Speaker 6: failure of imagination. And what I mean by that is
Speaker 6: that I didn't have a failure of imagination beforehand in
Speaker 6: terms of what's possible and where we could go, and
Speaker 6: I don't have that failure now, and so it's oddly grounding.
Speaker 2: IMAA, my sister Imada Jones of Translash Media, thank you
Speaker 2: so much for joining me on in the Thick, thank
Speaker 2: you and the fabulous Fighter in the Washington Post, Herenatiya,
Speaker 2: my sister, thank you so much for joining me on
Speaker 2: in the.
Speaker 1: Thick, of course, thank you, dear listener.
Speaker 2: In the Thicks pop up season is supported in part
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Speaker 2: In the Thickest produced by Ariel Goodman and Ines Renique.
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Speaker 7: No de Mayes Tao.
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