1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:00,840 Speaker 1: Orlan. 2 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 2: Dear listener, it's Maria no Hossan. Now you know me 3 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 2: as the host of this show, but I want you 4 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 2: to know that I also co host In the Thick, 5 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 2: which is our sister politics podcast here at Futuro Media. 6 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 2: It's a show where we talk politics unfiltered. So as 7 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 2: we get out of the haze of the presidential election, 8 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 2: we thought we'd bring you this special episode of In 9 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 2: the Thick for you, our dear Leatino USA listener. In 10 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: this episode, I speak with Imara Jones. She's a journalist 11 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 2: and podcast host as well as the founder of Translash Media, 12 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 2: and we also are joined by a badass, the Washington 13 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 2: Post columnist Karen Atia. We're going to talk all about 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: what the Democratic Party got wrong, the nationwide shift to 15 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: the right, how we understand this, what comes up, and 16 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 2: what comes next. So I want you to enjoy this episode, 17 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: and please, dear listener, subscribe to In the Thick wherever 18 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: you get your podcasts. Let's go to the tape, dear listener, 19 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 2: Welcome to In the Thick. Yes, I know, I know, 20 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 2: but that's why we're here, because we're going to talk 21 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 2: about it. We're one week since this election, I'm joined 22 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 2: by two award winning journalists and it all stars. They're 23 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 2: going to help us navigate what we're figuring out, what 24 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: we're looking for, how we move forward. Joining us from Brooklyn, 25 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 2: we have the founder of Translash, media journalist and podcast host, 26 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: yes Imaida Jones back on the show. Welcome back, Imada. 27 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you so much. 28 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: And joining us from Dallas, Texas, Washington Post opinions columnist 29 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: Karen Attia. 30 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: Karen, great to have you on the show. 31 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 4: Thanks for having me, Maria, good to be here. 32 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: This is politics unfiltered. Let's get into it, Karen, Imaa. 33 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: It's been just over a week since Donald Trump's victory. 34 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 2: It's a night that sparked a historic right word shift 35 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 2: in our country. The election results gave us this new 36 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: insight into a changing American political landscape right and we're 37 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 2: all sitting with it and taking it in. Republicans, well, 38 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 2: they had a sweeping victory. It stretched from rural America 39 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 2: into urban centers, even one's long thought to be Democratic strongholds, 40 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 2: even in Manhattan, for God's sakes, election night also marked 41 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 2: a historic moment of failure for the Democratic Party. So 42 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 2: let's look at some numbers. 43 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 5: Here. 44 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: Republicans won a bigger share of votes in every state 45 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four than they did in twenty twenty, 46 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 2: and won every single swing state. Exit polls showed that 47 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: forty six percent of Latinos forty six percent of all 48 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: Latinos voted for Trump, and Latino men specifically, they voted 49 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 2: at a rate of fifty five percent, and that's compared 50 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: to just thirty six percent of Latino male voters for 51 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: Trump in twenty twenty. Vice President Harris received two million 52 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: fewer votes than Biden did. In twenty twenty, Harris only 53 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 2: held an eight point margin among women voters, the Democrats 54 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: smallest margin since two thousand and four. And this despite 55 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 2: the fact that ninety one percent of Black women voted 56 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 2: for Harris, while fifty three percent of white women voted 57 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 2: for Trump. A majority of white women voted. 58 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: For Donald Trump. 59 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 2: For many of us on this podcast, this is a 60 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 2: victory that has really deep implications in terms of our 61 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 2: understanding of the country that we live in and how 62 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: we move forward. You know, I mean, we're all feeling it. 63 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 2: So very first thing is a temperature check. So it's 64 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: how you're feeling today, Karen, your temperature check what's your 65 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: emotional state. 66 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 5: Honestly, I've been spending the last couple of days, first 67 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 5: of all, consciously uncoupling from Twitter slash x that healscape 68 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 5: of a site, and I think I've just been in 69 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 5: a mindset. 70 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 4: Of being extremely upset. 71 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 5: With how the election turned out, but not surprised. I'm 72 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 5: joining y'all from Texas, right and I'm back here when 73 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 5: week after the election. In so many ways, I'm reminded 74 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 5: of the things that I saw here in the years 75 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 5: that I was living here before this year, So I'm 76 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 5: not entirely shocked at the direction this country is going. 77 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 4: I guess for me personally, I'm just going to be 78 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 4: using a lot of this time. 79 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 5: To really deeply reflect and spend a lot more time 80 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 5: in the gym, because I think what is happening now 81 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 5: is a bigger energetic vibe shift that is bigger than 82 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 5: the election, and that goes to an identity shift, an 83 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 5: identity crisis for America. So as we're figuring that out, 84 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 5: I think it's time to just really get grounded in community, 85 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 5: spirituality and keeping ourselves healthy and finding joy where we 86 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 5: can as we navigate. 87 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 2: This preach and Karen and I our Instagram workout admirers. 88 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 2: MY dream is to one day work out with you 89 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 2: like that's going. I'm gonna make that will happen. I'm 90 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: gonna make that happen in twenty twenty five. Emata your 91 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 2: temperature check my dear. 92 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 6: So if I was a thermometer, I think I would 93 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 6: be running slightly hot today when most of last week 94 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 6: I was pretty pretty even caln. 95 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 3: I think that more than anything, I. 96 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 6: Feel annoyed by the mad scramble that's happening when some 97 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 6: of us have been reporting counseling, advising warning for years 98 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 6: and haven't been heard like we should have been, and 99 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 6: then now the phone is ringing off the hook, and 100 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 6: that is particularly irritating. I would also say that I 101 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 6: am deeply It's okay, honey, Yeah, I would say that 102 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 6: I am deeply enraged. I think it's quiet rage, though 103 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 6: that's what it is. At what is happening in the 104 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 6: mainstream press. I think the inability to hold white people 105 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 6: accountable for white people's actions and choices and to instead 106 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 6: say that, for example, Kambla Harris lost because of trans people, 107 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 6: and also the rush even amongst places that are supposedly 108 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 6: more open to conversation amongst Democrats to fall in line 109 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 6: with the looming authoritarian regime, I think means that there's 110 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 6: just going to be to Karen's point, and thank god 111 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 6: for Karen's writing in the post. By the way, you 112 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 6: know it's going to be a massive realignment. And I 113 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 6: think in every single way. 114 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 2: I'm all of that. You know, for me, the worst 115 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 2: points right, It's just like you devoted your career to 116 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 2: trying to give a community a complexity that would be 117 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,239 Speaker 2: Latinos in general, Like they're complex, you can't count on them, 118 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, not being heard right, 119 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 2: always being criticized by the right and the left. But 120 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,119 Speaker 2: you know that is what it is. On the issue 121 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 2: of immigration, just like seeing this horror play out, which 122 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: is like, this is your worst fucking nightmare in the world. 123 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: It's the reason why your father. 124 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: Didn't want to come to this country, right damn it 125 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 2: did want to cry. 126 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: But between like that, and. 127 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 2: Also I'm just like, Okay, put on your big girl 128 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: boots and what were you going to do in the 129 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: upcoming four years if Kamala Harris had one? Were you 130 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 2: just going to be like lounging different context because we 131 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 2: wouldn't feel like we're moving into authoritarianism, fascism, outright racism, 132 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 2: gestapo tactics, et cetera, et cetera. But I'm also not 133 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 2: going to lay down. I'm just not I'm like, okay, here, 134 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: I am, I'm back. I'm waking up at six, working out, 135 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 2: eating healthy, giving myself the pause one hundred percent, but 136 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: then getting ready. 137 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: All right. 138 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 2: I'm so glad. I'm so glad that we had that 139 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: moment to just unleash. And I think the one thing 140 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 2: that I'm very uncomfortable it is the amount of anger 141 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: and what we're going to do with that, and certainly 142 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 2: for black women to be pissed off as hell with 143 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 2: everyone in the entire country and world. 144 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 6: Well, black women have to save ourselves. Eat first and foremost, 145 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 6: because no one cares about black women like other women. 146 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 3: Let's just be honest. 147 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 6: Yeah, So that's first and foremost, and yeah, everyone else 148 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 6: will have to figure it out. 149 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: And that's where we are. 150 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 2: You know, thank you for producing this insanity, voters of 151 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 2: the United States of America. But we are here, and 152 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 2: we want black women to take care of themselves, especially 153 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,719 Speaker 2: in this moment. First, I just want to ask the 154 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 2: both of you if you can break down how you 155 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 2: understand this victory was his campaigning effective in terms of 156 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 2: speaking to an American electorate. Let's start with you, Karen, 157 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 2: and then we'll hear from you Emeta. 158 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 4: Yeah. 159 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 5: I think a lot, a lot, a lot of things 160 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 5: are at play, right, And I have to keep in 161 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 5: mind Trump for a lot of people, including you know, 162 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 5: I have to say I have Trump supporters even in 163 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 5: my family who. 164 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 2: Are black and live in Texas. 165 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:54,959 Speaker 1: Just so we're clear. 166 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 5: Core wrets and immigrants, So okay. I think for me, 167 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 5: my own sort of lived experience defies a lot of 168 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 5: the perhaps myths, particularly that liberals have tended to have 169 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 5: about about immigrants and about sort of the black and 170 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 5: browning of America, that it would automatically lead to this 171 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 5: conclusion that this would be bad for Republicans, right, And 172 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 5: I have to keep in mind that Trump has been 173 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 5: in my life as a cultural figure pretty much ever 174 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 5: since I was born, ever since, like I don't know, 175 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 5: in the nineteen nineties, Home alone and Trump in the 176 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 5: cultural zeitgeist has represented to a lot of people this 177 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 5: idea of power, money, success, and frankly, what it means 178 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 5: to be a completely free man, free of shame, free 179 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 5: of the shackles of poverty. And he's less a candidate 180 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 5: than this aspirational almost frankly, and I know we don't 181 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 5: like to talk about it, but almost a religious figure. 182 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 5: And the times that I've been in the same room 183 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 5: with him or same space, whether it's been at the 184 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 5: RNC in Cleveland in twenty sixteen or meeting him as 185 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 5: part of the editorial board in the Washington Post or 186 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 5: at NYBJ the National Association of Journalists this year, which 187 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 5: I decided to resign from after the decision to invite 188 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 5: him to speak. And what people don't understand is he 189 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 5: has this sort of presence and power and charisma that 190 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 5: he plays this character as somebody who grew up watching 191 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 5: Monday Night Wrestling, where Trump was also on there. 192 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,719 Speaker 4: He is extremely. 193 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 5: Good at quote unquote, as you say, playing the heel right, 194 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 5: and America loves the heel, loves a figure that is 195 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 5: willing to be the underdog in a sense, take on 196 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 5: the power establishment and act on instinct and do what 197 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 5: he wants. 198 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 4: He's a bully, but people like it. 199 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 5: Who knows, maybe I'm like burying a lot of my 200 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 5: feelings and anger and rage, and please believe, I'm not 201 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 5: trying to excuse people who buy into this, but I 202 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,239 Speaker 5: get it. And when I look at this election outcome, 203 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 5: even when I look at how simple his slogan was, 204 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 5: make America great Again, how simple it was for people 205 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 5: to signal belonging to a community. 206 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 4: Around him wearing those red hats. 207 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 5: The red hat has become a signifier, right, a community 208 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 5: builder in a way for people, and people both feel 209 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 5: empowered by him and yet also completely the underdog, victimized 210 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 5: by the elites, by the media, when really these are 211 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 5: also people struggling under the economy who feel that it's 212 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 5: okay to take out that anger, those feelings on minorities, 213 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 5: on women, on trans people. 214 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 4: There's a lot of factors. I also point back to just. 215 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 5: The rise of right wing media and radio and right 216 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 5: male anger is this seductive thing here in this country. 217 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 5: The fact that the right wing has captured combat sports UFC, 218 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 5: pro wrestling, which is where a lot of. 219 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 4: Men, young men, young white men. 220 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 5: Form communities, form this idol worship. It makes a lot 221 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 5: of intuitive sense to me. That's the only way I 222 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 5: can put it. I'm not saying it's right. 223 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 2: So the Democrats then just a quick take, Karen on 224 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: the Democrats and on how you see their role. 225 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 5: I think the Democrats suffer from still suffer from assuming 226 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 5: that people will be swayed by facts and policy by 227 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 5: the head in some ways. And the Republicans have figured 228 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 5: out how to appeal to something in the bone spirit 229 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 5: of people, even if it's not it. And I think 230 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 5: the Democrats kind of swinging back and forth. It's like, 231 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 5: are you the party of civil rights and peace and 232 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:14,359 Speaker 5: diplomacy or are you the party of endless warm bombing children. 233 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: In Gaza Imada? Your take on? 234 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: The Democrats lost this and the Republicans want it. What's 235 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: the takeaway? 236 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 6: This election revealed the deep, unresolved character flaw that haunted 237 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 6: America from its inception, the unfinished business of dealing with 238 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 6: the tension of being birthed as a slave republic, and 239 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 6: the fundamental aspect of the slave republic is this notion 240 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 6: that the way that you get free is by denying 241 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 6: other people their freedom, that you can destroy others at 242 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 6: will in order to achieve your means and your goals, 243 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 6: and that that is especially and only true for people 244 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 6: who are white. And anytime America in its history has 245 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 6: come close to burying that idea, not the reality. 246 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 3: But even the idea. 247 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 6: The response has been ferocious and extreme, and just to 248 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 6: bring that forward so that we don't think that this is, 249 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 6: you know, ancient history. 250 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 3: You know. 251 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 6: Professor Carol Anderson from Emmer University, in her book White 252 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 6: Rage shows how every single year that Barack Obama was 253 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 6: in office, racist sentiment and then timpathy in the United 254 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 6: States increased, which means that just the sight of a 255 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 6: black man and a black family occupying the highest office 256 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 6: in the land unearthed the reality of the ugly beast 257 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 6: that is literally right below the soil in the country. 258 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 6: So I think Donald Trump at his core understands that 259 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 6: that's how he was raised by his dad, and the 260 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 6: fact that he is a master marketer and brander, and 261 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 6: the fact that he lives at a time when, as 262 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 6: Christaph Friedland said in her book Plutocrats, that we see 263 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 6: CEOs as the hero of our time. Corresponding with what 264 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 6: Karen said, I think is almost a toxic and irresistible 265 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 6: mix in America. 266 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 3: It's catnip. 267 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 6: And you put that person against a black woman who 268 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 6: people do not want to see on high. 269 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 3: People do not want. 270 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 6: To wake up every day and see a black woman 271 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 6: who is powerful and grounded be commander in chief. 272 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 3: Regardless of her policies. 273 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 6: By the way, we all know that President Obama's policies 274 00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 6: were fairly conservative, ironically, so this isn't about the policy content. 275 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 6: This is really a battle over the ideas and the 276 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 6: fundamental character of the country. And the nation failed its 277 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 6: character test. 278 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 2: So my thoughts and I have a lot on what 279 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: the Republicans did and the Democrats, right, So the Republicans again, 280 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 2: they have a clear message, it's not just make America 281 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 2: great again, it's build the wall, and build the wall 282 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 2: means stop it all. Stop the immigrants, stop the refugees, 283 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 2: stop people speaking Spanish, stop immigrants from moving into my community, 284 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 2: stop black people from being out there marching, stop trans people, 285 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 2: stop Gabe, Like build the wall, I want to be 286 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 2: behind my wall. The horror is that the level of 287 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 2: missing from and disinformation, which we've reported about at Nauseam 288 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 2: and please listen to our work on Latino USA, is that, 289 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 2: you know, witnessing how latinos and latin has actually bought 290 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,239 Speaker 2: into I'm going to vote for a guy that's going 291 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 2: to start mass deportation. But speaking of the Democrats, You know, 292 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 2: people get very upset still when I criticize the Democrats 293 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 2: because they just think I'm a Trump supporter, and I'm 294 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 2: just like, no, if they had listened, what I was 295 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 2: trying to say was you need to give a different narrative. 296 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 2: You cannot out Trump Trump on the issue of immigration 297 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 2: and what's happening at the border. You need to take 298 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 2: a completely different take on this. And in terms of 299 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 2: the economy, the same thing you could have said, the 300 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 2: reason why economic growth is happening is because we have 301 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 2: immigrants here. They were scared and they fell into you 302 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,360 Speaker 2: know what's easiest for them, which is, well, what does 303 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 2: the white man say. What is the straight white male, 304 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 2: heterosexual Ivy League educated policy analyst, public relations, marketing executive, 305 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 2: what does he say? 306 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: That's what we're going to do. 307 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 5: So. 308 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 2: Imara, you are the host of several podcasts. You also 309 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 2: just finished up season three of your investigative podcast it's 310 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: called The Anti Trans Hate Machine, and this season your 311 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 2: investigation focused on the links between the rise of political 312 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 2: violence in the United States, far right paramilitary groups and 313 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 2: anti trans hate. Imara, at this point, what does this 314 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 2: victory mean for the trans community? 315 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 7: One? 316 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 2: What is the threat and how do we respond to it? 317 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 2: And then how do you see this threat as a 318 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 2: manifestation of a threat on democracy based on the backs 319 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 2: of trans people. 320 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 6: I think that the combination of Donald Trump and the 321 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 6: fact that the largest single at by the entire campaign 322 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 6: nearly a quarter of a billion dollars and anti transads 323 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 6: the biggest advice. They spent more money on that than 324 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 6: on anything else with prospective advertising, the failure of the 325 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 6: Democratic Party to respond, and the way in which Democrats 326 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 6: and the mainstream media have acted in the wake of 327 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 6: the loss by saying that it was trans people's fault, 328 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 6: telegraphs to Donald Trump that his desire to put trans 329 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,479 Speaker 6: people on the day one target list means that it 330 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 6: will be open season on trans people on day one, 331 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 6: alongside immigrants. The entire rationale for the man's campaign was 332 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 6: that he would go after immigrants and trans people literally 333 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 6: the whole campaign, and the country said damn right, we will. 334 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: Stop the indoctrination of your children and we will not 335 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: let them try to change your kid's gender. 336 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 6: So I think that what it means is there's going 337 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 6: to be a slew of anti trans administrative actions on 338 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 6: day one. I think the administrative agencies are going to 339 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 6: go right to work to try to erase trans people 340 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 6: from an entire slew of equal protections, including healthcare and housing, employment. 341 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 6: They can't really do that because there's a Supreme Court case, 342 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 6: the boss Dot case, which ruled that trans people can't 343 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 6: be discriminated against. But they can just stop enforcing the 344 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 6: law correct. And I think trans people are organizing and responding, 345 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 6: relying on community. I mean, I think that I've been 346 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 6: warning through four years of reporting. Now this issue was 347 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 6: teed up by the Christian nationalist movement for the past 348 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 6: ten years to work exactly how it worked in this election, 349 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 6: and it did. They know that it works in really 350 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 6: close elections. They've been teeing up this conversation through an 351 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 6: entire apparatus. They've spent hundreds of millions of dollars on 352 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 6: it to bring us to this point. And their strategy 353 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 6: worked and paid off. And so now we are about 354 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 6: to usher in authoritarianism in the United States and see 355 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 6: mass pain like no one alive has witnessed on this scale, 356 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 6: undoubtedly mass civil instability and unrest because this operation figured 357 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 6: out how to use trans people and trans issues over 358 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 6: the past decade to usher in authoritarianism. 359 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 2: So, Karen, you know we're hearing about this specificity of 360 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 2: the attacks on the trans community and how much fear 361 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 2: there is there. You know, you write for the Washington Post, right, 362 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 2: it's all about Washington politics. What do you think this 363 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 2: victory means for the future of our democracy? 364 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, I think this country is a young democracy. 365 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 5: I don't think a full democracy is anything but a 366 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 5: country that gives protections and voice to the most marginalized. 367 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 5: I mean, I think you know, as a journalist, we're 368 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 5: seeing definite attacks on the press, We're seeing attacks on organizers. 369 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 5: I think it's not a coincidence to me that after 370 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 5: platforms like Twitter were so instrumental in making so many 371 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 5: of these issues, whether it was racism, police brutality, me too, 372 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 5: so visible and forcing those issues of America not holding 373 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 5: up to its promise for black people, for women, for 374 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 5: trans people. 375 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 4: To me, it's not a. 376 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 5: Surprise that the tech brologarchs came in bought up these platforms. 377 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 5: We now have zucker Birds saying we're not going to 378 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 5: do politics, We're not going to do news. And to me, 379 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 5: it is also I think this question, you know, not 380 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 5: just of our elected officials, but again of our ruling class, 381 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 5: which yes includes the Elon Musk, the Peter Thiels, the 382 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 5: Mark Zuckerberds, who have an insane amount of unaccountable power 383 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 5: over what we see, over what we consume, over what 384 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 5: we believe to be real, who have leaned to the right, 385 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 5: who have, I mean, Elon tried to tilt this election 386 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 5: in favor of Trump, And I think this is going 387 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 5: to be something that we're going to have to really 388 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 5: figure out and grapple with as we're moving in this 389 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 5: increasingly mediated space. I mean, what does it mean for 390 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 5: a handful of men of white men, a couple of 391 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 5: South African immigrants who have decided that they want to 392 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 5: reshape this country into a country that silences the press, 393 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 5: that wants to elevate high testosterone. 394 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 4: Men, white men into power. 395 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 5: Right, when I look at democracy, it's not just about 396 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 5: elected officials, but it's about the class of wealthy, ultra 397 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:58,959 Speaker 5: rich billionaires that we have actively working with the fascist 398 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 5: government and org caving. So what does it mean for 399 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 5: us to fight back against that. There's a lot of 400 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 5: news deserts right. This media environment is now less diverse 401 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 5: than it was in the nineties. It is not an 402 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 5: accident that newsrooms have been slashing their news staff of 403 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 5: people of these different backgrounds, Black, Latino, trans So the 404 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 5: fact that everybody's dumbfounded about what's happening, I'm like, yeah, 405 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 5: no shit, because the people whose job it was to 406 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 5: interpret and to give voice to these issues, y'all let 407 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 5: them go because you want to quote unquote appeal to 408 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 5: your core slash white audience. 409 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 2: You know, one of the things you mighta obviously the 410 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 2: reason why in the thing came into existence was to 411 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 2: have an independent analysis of the politics from a non 412 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: white perspective. Right, we were all the three of us 413 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 2: basically yelling and screaming, this is not a normal election, 414 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 2: this is not a normal party, not a normal candidate. 415 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 2: So final question, what has been the role of mainstream 416 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 2: media and helping to make this all happen? 417 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 3: Oh boy. 418 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 6: I think that if you see yourself as a part 419 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 6: of the establishment, then your role is to preserve the 420 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 6: established order. If you see yourself in the role of 421 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 6: preserving the established order, that any perceived threats to that 422 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 6: order will be marginalized, period, full stop. And I think 423 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 6: that one of the issues is that a part of 424 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 6: the established order is that there are two parties, you 425 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 6: treat them a certain way and you don't actually listen 426 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 6: to the content of what they're saying. You know, there's 427 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,479 Speaker 6: a president, whoever the president is, you report on them 428 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 6: in a certain way, so you're just actually publicizing and 429 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 6: lifting up the conversation that the established order tells you. 430 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 6: So when you have a major party that's captured by 431 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 6: an extremist movement, you just keep doing the same thing. 432 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 6: And what you've end up doing is to legitimize those 433 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 6: extremist views because you just cover them like everything else. 434 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 2: I don't know if you, Emara or Karen are of 435 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 2: the Birdwatcher team, but before I came to record, there 436 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 2: was a golden eagle circling in front of me over 437 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 2: this lake, just circling. And I didn't call anyone. I 438 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 2: didn't say to my family, come and look. I didn't 439 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,640 Speaker 2: take out my phone. I just sat and I watched her, 440 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 2: and I was like, you're telling me something. I don't 441 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 2: know what, but I guess the joy was to be 442 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 2: able to witness that I feel joy just from the 443 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 2: power of nature, Like that's basically keeping me going. Start 444 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 2: with you, just a quick take on what's bringing you joy, 445 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 2: what you are actively doing to find it how you 446 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 2: have found it. 447 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 5: Hopefully this weekend I'll be going out into nature. I've 448 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 5: rededicated myself to movie time martial arts. It brings me 449 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 5: a lot of joy and grounding. You punch and kick 450 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 5: things and not to stop, but frankly community Like right 451 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 5: now I'm working on feeling grounded spiritually and physically and yeah, 452 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 5: actually dancing like kind of like cranking up the music 453 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 5: and dancing in my pajamas to I remembery myself once 454 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 5: in a while. I actually think right now, creativity artists, 455 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 5: people who are tapped into something deeper than just kind 456 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 5: of the intellectual politics. 457 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 4: I feel like they're. 458 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 5: The ones that the profits the astrologers. 459 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 4: I think the. 460 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 5: Creatives who are unbound are going to be the ones 461 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 5: who are going to help us and see us through. 462 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love that so much. 463 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 2: Take us out, my dear lovely sister, something that is 464 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 2: bringing you joy. 465 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 3: One of things I just. 466 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,719 Speaker 6: Want to say is that when you mentioned that you 467 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 6: saw the image of an eagle circling, it made me 468 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 6: think of the emblem of Mexico and the ego eats 469 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 6: the snake on the Mexican. 470 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 8: Flag, drop in the Mike, Yo, there's Karen all like 471 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 8: y'all need to be spiritual, and there's Amara like, well, hello, 472 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 8: it's right in front. 473 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 3: Of you, Yo, it's right in front of you. The 474 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 3: ego eats the snake. 475 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 4: I got chills just now. 476 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 6: I'm really into science fiction and speculative fiction and fantasy, 477 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 6: and those worlds and those imaginings are really really helpful 478 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 6: at times like this because there's so many ways in 479 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 6: which a lot of things that we're going to be 480 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 6: facing are modeled into that. And so I think that 481 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 6: one of the things I was thinking about last week was, 482 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 6: you know, all of the challenges. 483 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 3: What we could have done, what we couldn't have done, And. 484 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 6: I was like, but you know, at least, one of 485 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,239 Speaker 6: the things that I think is really helping me right 486 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 6: now and stay grounded is that I don't have a 487 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 6: failure of imagination. And what I mean by that is 488 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 6: that I didn't have a failure of imagination beforehand in 489 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 6: terms of what's possible and where we could go, and 490 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 6: I don't have that failure now, and so it's oddly grounding. 491 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,479 Speaker 2: IMAA, my sister Imada Jones of Translash Media, thank you 492 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 2: so much for joining me on in the Thick, thank 493 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 2: you and the fabulous Fighter in the Washington Post, Herenatiya, 494 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 2: my sister, thank you so much for joining me on 495 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 2: in the. 496 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: Thick, of course, thank you, dear listener. 497 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 2: In the Thicks pop up season is supported in part 498 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 2: by the Hispanic Federation and for BUDH Media's Friends of 499 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 2: Democracy Fund. Fund sustainers include Dipa Donde, April Gasler, and 500 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 2: cadmin Rita Wong. Fun Legacy one hundred supporters include Jacqueline 501 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 2: Steinhols and Laura Tomas. And remember, dear listener, go to 502 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, come on, give us a review, and remember 503 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 2: you can listen to us on all your podcast platforms. 504 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 2: Check us out on the web in the follow us 505 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 2: on x and on Instagram at in the Thick Show, 506 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 2: follow us on all social media platforms, like us on 507 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 2: in face, and tell your friends and families to listen. 508 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 2: In the Thickest produced by Ariel Goodman and Ines Renique. 509 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are myself and Beennivee Ramidez. Our audio 510 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 2: engineer is Leah shah Damaran. Our marketing manager is Luis Luna. 511 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 2: Remember we've got another episode coming up next week, so 512 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 2: be on the lookout, and now more than ever. 513 00:31:49,160 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 7: No de Mayes Tao. 514 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 5: The opinions expressed by the guests and contributors in this 515 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 5: podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the 516 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 5: views of Futuromedia or its employees.