Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Lokate up Daily with
Speaker 1: Me your Girl Daniel Moody pre recording from the home Bunker, Folks,
Speaker 1: on today's show, I am always happy when I get
Speaker 1: to welcome back our friend or in house doctor, doctor
Speaker 1: Jonathan Metzil. And Jonathan and I have been doing a
Speaker 1: lot of freestyle conversations, just kind of getting into how
Speaker 1: we're feeling about the current moment and what is unfolding
Speaker 1: and the best ways to move forward. And so as
Speaker 1: I open up today's show, you know, for the last months,
Speaker 1: I have made a commitment to really do some deep
Speaker 1: excavation work on my own wounds, which we all have,
Speaker 1: and getting to a place of healing only comes from
Speaker 1: right recognizing that you have wounds to heal and also
Speaker 1: recognizing where in fact those wounds originate from. Why do
Speaker 1: I say this to you, because as I continue to
Speaker 1: watch and read and consume the devastation, the death, the
Speaker 1: tragedy of injustice that is unfolding in Israel and Palestine,
Speaker 1: the thousands of children that are being slaughtered. Sure that
Speaker 1: just happened to the sole Palestinian American serving in Congress,
Speaker 1: Representative Rashida Tali the twenty two Democrats who turned their
Speaker 1: backs on her and decided to turn off her mic
Speaker 1: to say that she is not worthy of being heard.
Speaker 1: I've been trying to understand the source of so much
Speaker 1: pain in Palestine and in Israel, in the United States,
Speaker 1: around the globe, and what I am coming to really
Speaker 1: understand is that we are, in so many ways just
Speaker 1: a bunch of walking wounds. We're the walking woond did capitalism, greed, extraction, misogyny, racism.
Speaker 1: It's like death by a million cuts. Capitalism doesn't even
Speaker 1: allow us the time and the space and the focus
Speaker 1: to be able to tend to any of those wounds.
Speaker 1: Because if you stop being productive right, if you take
Speaker 1: a pause, if you try and find the time to
Speaker 1: focus on you, then you're labeled as lazy. You're told
Speaker 1: that you are selfish. We have ingested so many fucking lies,
Speaker 1: which is why people are screaming out right now, nation
Speaker 1: by nation, city by city, town by town. We are
Speaker 1: so wounded and so filled with grief and rage because
Speaker 1: of the persistent and consistent violence, physical, mental, spiritual violence
Speaker 1: that we've been forced to endure and told that that hardship,
Speaker 1: those hardships will they make you stronger, and if you,
Speaker 1: for some reason live at the intersection of multiple marginalized
Speaker 1: groups and you can ascend, well, then that is a
Speaker 1: failure of yours alone, not the system. We have been
Speaker 1: fed so many lies that we believe right now that
Speaker 1: war and death will somehow bring us to a place
Speaker 1: of peace. And what Jonathan and I discussed today, and
Speaker 1: what he ends with saying, is that we need to
Speaker 1: keep having conversations even when they are hard. I mean
Speaker 1: that on a global level, as it pertains to nations
Speaker 1: actually speaking. I mean that on a personal level, as
Speaker 1: we come upon a season of Thanksgiving. We're not everyone
Speaker 1: has fun memories. Not everyone's families are welcoming, our loving,
Speaker 1: our tender. I realize now that the more that we
Speaker 1: ignore our individual wounds and the collective pain and trauma
Speaker 1: that we've experienced and continue to experience, the more damage heartbreak, death, destruction, despair,
Speaker 1: and hopelessness we will see. I know that we feel
Speaker 1: hopeless right now. I know that each and every single
Speaker 1: one of us is shedding tears on a regular basis.
Speaker 2: Because we just.
Speaker 1: Don't know what to do. And what I am trying
Speaker 1: to do with my own self care is heal my wounds,
Speaker 1: redirect my energy so that I don't add to the
Speaker 1: pain that is already existing in the world. Because what
Speaker 1: we need is more healed people who can move themselves
Speaker 1: out of marinating in the misery of the current moment
Speaker 1: that we are existing in. Because the thing is, folks,
Speaker 1: that if we do not tend to our own wounds,
Speaker 1: we will never get to a place where we can
Speaker 1: imagine outside of current suffering something different. We've been war
Speaker 1: and violence since the birth of this nation, since the
Speaker 1: birth of this goddamn world. Told that there are necessary
Speaker 1: evils and there is necessary violence. Taking life is never necessary.
Speaker 1: Folks will say, well, what about Hitler? What about this person?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: I would rather we create systems of true and actual
Speaker 1: and needed and necessary reform than just killing people or
Speaker 1: locking them up and throwing away the key, making them
Speaker 1: experience such dehumanization. And then we wonder why recidivism in
Speaker 1: this country is so fucking high. We refuse to teach
Speaker 1: the basics of empathy, of compassion, of justice, of liberation
Speaker 1: for us individually and collectively, and we have to ask ourselves, folks.
Speaker 1: And I posted this on my Instagram, which was a
Speaker 1: video with Angela Davis ask the questions, who benefits from
Speaker 1: our ignorance, who benefits from our pain, who benefits from
Speaker 1: our hopelessness, who benefits from our exhaustion? Because when we
Speaker 1: ask those questions, when we begin to excavate that truth,
Speaker 1: then we really do begin to have our eyes wide
Speaker 1: open and tap into a consciousness level that is necessary
Speaker 1: for through real, deep, sustainable liberation for all people. I
Speaker 1: want us to think bigger, to dream bigger, to have
Speaker 1: a practice of healing ourselves so that we can project
Speaker 1: that healing out into the world because it is so
Speaker 1: desperately needed. Coming up next, my conversation with our friend,
Speaker 1: our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Friends, you know
Speaker 1: that whenever I have the opportunity to talk with our
Speaker 1: friend or in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, I am always, always,
Speaker 1: always thrilled. Jonathan. It has been a week since we've spoken.
Speaker 1: A lot, a lot has happened and continues to happen
Speaker 1: and unfold in this country and across the Middle East
Speaker 1: around the globe. I actually would like for change, call
Speaker 1: me crazy, to start with something good today, which is up,
Speaker 1: which is we had by at the time of this recording. Friends,
Speaker 1: we just went through the twenty twenty three election cycle
Speaker 1: that had multiple state races that, as many have said,
Speaker 1: would be a bell weather for twenty twenty four. Now,
Speaker 1: if you've been listening to me, you know that I
Speaker 1: have been talking about the polls, and they are not
Speaker 1: looking favorable right now for Joe Biden. Polls twelve months
Speaker 1: out are kind of like your horoscope. You look at
Speaker 1: them for some context, but they don't give you everything
Speaker 1: that you need. However, the election with Ohio certifying enshrining abortion,
Speaker 1: Kentucky governor resoundedly Democrat winning re election UH first black
Speaker 1: woman mayor, even though folks say that she's problematic. We
Speaker 1: will see UH in Philadelphia. Virginia turned blue in the
Speaker 1: state legislator. I just want to get your reactions, Jonathan,
Speaker 1: to you know, we often we spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time talking about really tough issues, really tough feelings and emotions.
Speaker 1: Get your reactions to how people showed up in Ohio,
Speaker 1: in Kentucky, in Pennsylvania, in Virginia and what you what that?
Speaker 1: What that signals for you?
Speaker 2: Wonderful? Well, let me give you my menu and you
Speaker 2: tell me which one of these things resonate. Because I
Speaker 2: have a number of different thoughts which are I think
Speaker 2: synergistic and I agree with you. It was a great night.
Speaker 2: And so I would say a couple of things. Number one,
Speaker 2: of course, is that the Dobbs decision continues to be
Speaker 2: a total loser for Republicans and supporting people's right to
Speaker 2: make decisions about their bodies about abortion and reproductive rights.
Speaker 2: But also like we've got this new guy Johnson who's
Speaker 2: the Speaker of the House, who's talking about again birth
Speaker 2: control pills and IVF and stuff like that. And so
Speaker 2: number one is I think moving toward just leaning into
Speaker 2: continually the importance of people to have the freedom to
Speaker 2: make decisions about their own intimate bodily decisions is a
Speaker 2: huge winner for Democrats. So number one, I would just say,
Speaker 2: I don't know what Republicans are thinking, but to continue
Speaker 2: to double down the way you know Youngin did yesterday,
Speaker 2: and even in cases of like rape and incest, there
Speaker 2: were that case somewhere where like a ten year old
Speaker 2: kid right was raped and and and so you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's just, uh, it's just like it's just it's
Speaker 2: just unbelievable to me that that's the platform where people
Speaker 2: It's just not where people are at right now. And
Speaker 2: so Number one is I just am proud to be
Speaker 2: part of a party that is that is allowing people
Speaker 2: to make that choice and is standing up for I
Speaker 2: think was such a great injustice, which is a right
Speaker 2: that was enshrined and then taken away. I still think
Speaker 2: that that resonates. So that's number one. Number two is
Speaker 2: that ultimately, if you're a Democrat, we have much more
Speaker 2: strength in alliance, we have much more strength in working together.
Speaker 2: We disagree about many fundamental issues, but ultimately we are
Speaker 2: stronger together and we can find, I think hopefully compromise
Speaker 2: positions that work for the majority of people. And I
Speaker 2: think that is also a message, is that Democrats are
Speaker 2: better off working together, even though we have so many
Speaker 2: different different agendas under our tent. And actually I'm preparing
Speaker 2: I'm rushing to the airport after we speak to give
Speaker 2: a talk about that point tomorrow as a matter of fact,
Speaker 2: because I really do believe that that, especially if you're
Speaker 2: on the side of health, justice and equity and all
Speaker 2: these other issues, that I think we're better off working together,
Speaker 2: which I think that is a point. Number three is
Speaker 2: that we ran really strong candidates. So this is where
Speaker 2: there's a little bit of anxiety is that we wrote
Speaker 2: we ran really strong candidates. I mean, as I've talked
Speaker 2: about a zillion times on this show, Andy Basheer is
Speaker 2: as soon to be national leader. He's truly a leader.
Speaker 2: I've watched his leadership really with admiration. Right, he's the
Speaker 2: state right next to ours. But they're so sporting medicaid
Speaker 2: expansion in red state Kentucky. And what I was saying
Speaker 2: before was that during the worst moments of the pandemic
Speaker 2: and after the murder of George Floyd, Basher was pushing
Speaker 2: legislation in Kentucky that would give health insurance to one
Speaker 2: hundred percent of black residents in the state, which was
Speaker 2: just an incredibly brave and counterintuitive position at that time.
Speaker 2: Basically saying were looking at health inequity in the face,
Speaker 2: and we're doing is we're going to correct that, not
Speaker 2: just emotionally. We're not going to kneel down with kn't
Speaker 2: take cloths and stuff. We're going to address that structurally, right,
Speaker 2: We're going to actually change some of the structural and bounces.
Speaker 2: So while a lot of people were signaling their support
Speaker 2: for Black Lives Matter and stuff like that, Basher actually
Speaker 2: was trying to write structural, structural inequities and also a
Speaker 2: smart move during the pandemic when you want people to
Speaker 2: have health insurance so that they don't go around spreading
Speaker 2: COVID everywhere. And so in a way, I just think
Speaker 2: the Democrats also really just fielded much stronger candidates, and
Speaker 2: not just more compelling candidates, but centrist candidates that could
Speaker 2: speak to a lot of different people, not radical, extreme candidates.
Speaker 1: And I think that to that point, and I always
Speaker 1: love when you bring up the Kentake clock and the kneeling.
Speaker 1: It's like I always want to put I always want
Speaker 1: to put it out of my mind, and you always
Speaker 1: find a way, no, like at least every every six
Speaker 1: months or so, to like remind me that that happened.
Speaker 1: But you know, it was a moment. O, God, it
Speaker 1: was a moment. But but I think, I think to
Speaker 1: that point it also is a reminder. And I want
Speaker 1: to bring up something that I saw that Rick Santorum said,
Speaker 1: you know very much Republicans are all about saying the
Speaker 1: quiet parts out loud, which is first that again, Donald
Speaker 1: Trump continues to be on a losing streak all of
Speaker 1: the candidates that he backs that he holds up lose.
Speaker 1: Rick Santorum said, this is exactly why we can't rely
Speaker 1: on voting right, Like he said in a post on
Speaker 1: the broke Down Twitter platform that he basically is saying
Speaker 1: it is these issues. He said first of all about abortion,
Speaker 1: calling abortion a sexy issue, which was just so far
Speaker 1: out of his mind to say, and then said that
Speaker 1: this is why people shouldn't be allowed to vote, because
Speaker 1: this is what they don't want. Right in Ohio, in
Speaker 1: these places where people are given the opportunity and they
Speaker 1: see very clearly what these people are trying to come
Speaker 1: in to do to their lives and then they make
Speaker 1: the decision to show up and vote, right, Republicans are saying, yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't want that, we don't want that because they
Speaker 1: know that there isn't a thing that they are running
Speaker 1: on and offering that the majority of Americans want, right.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it's funny thinking about centorium, Like
Speaker 2: what happens to conservative commentators who spent time on liberal networks, right,
Speaker 2: Like you would think having spent all that time on CNN,
Speaker 2: for example, you know, or like number Meghan Kelly on MSNBC,
Speaker 2: Like you know, they go back and they become like
Speaker 2: they have to prove their chops by being like more radical.
Speaker 1: To the worst of the worst.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So you know, it's it's interesting that we're talking
Speaker 2: about him, but I would just say no, I mean,
Speaker 2: I study guns, right, so there's a lot of models
Speaker 2: for that, right that that gun in gun reform, eighty
Speaker 2: five percent of people support background checks and red flag
Speaker 2: laws and all that stuff. But they figured out a
Speaker 2: way to like make that irrelevant. By I mean, there's
Speaker 2: something very anti democratic that's been going on in a
Speaker 2: lot of these issues for a very long time. And
Speaker 2: that's why, for example, appealing for abortion, it wasn't remember
Speaker 2: and appeal to voters. It was a way to take
Speaker 2: over the courts and the Supreme Court. And so Republicans
Speaker 2: are really good at understanding how power works and then
Speaker 2: appealing to power, not necessarily winning popular opinion. Democrats now
Speaker 2: are pushing back by showing the power of grassroots popular opinion.
Speaker 2: We ain't heard the last of this debate. I'll tell
Speaker 2: you that, you know, twenty four less in some ways
Speaker 2: compelling candidates, unfortunately, I think. But also this debate between
Speaker 2: power and populism is so important in presidential elections because
Speaker 2: You're not just voting for a popular vote, You're voting
Speaker 2: for the electoral college. And so this is just the
Speaker 2: beginning of, I think a very intense cycle for a
Speaker 2: lot of us. And so I of course disagree with
Speaker 2: what terms said, but I also would just say there's
Speaker 2: a method behind it that's going to be more important
Speaker 2: in twenty four than it is now.
Speaker 1: Quick question, last question before you go, and thank you
Speaker 1: for giving us time today, because I know that you're
Speaker 1: in a rush, which is, how are you seeing in
Speaker 1: terms of the polls, in terms of what is happening
Speaker 1: and what is transpiring in the Middle East with Israel
Speaker 1: and Palestine countries beginning to come out and declare that
Speaker 1: they are ending their relationship, they are pausing their relationship,
Speaker 1: and what is picking up on TikTok that I posted
Speaker 1: earlier in the week is this idea, this hashtag genocide
Speaker 1: Joe and this feeling of people saying I'm not voting
Speaker 1: for him, and I match that again with what we
Speaker 1: just saw right take place that Democrats were able to
Speaker 1: do in these right states. What do you think about
Speaker 1: how people are feeling about Joe Biden, the allegiance to Israel,
Speaker 1: and what is taking place in Gaza, and how that
Speaker 1: is going to show up either be the thing that
Speaker 1: gets people to the polls or not.
Speaker 2: I can just give you two anecdotal examples from my
Speaker 2: own life. You know, again, I'm a Jewish American. I've
Speaker 2: spent a lot of time in Israel. I've spent a
Speaker 2: lot of time working on Middle East issues. I have
Speaker 2: spent a lot of time working for Israel Palestine physicians
Speaker 2: for human rights. And I've spent a lot of time
Speaker 2: protesting against the Nitan Yahoo government, which in some ways
Speaker 2: kind of puts Trump to shame in certain ways in
Speaker 2: terms of what it is. But I also believe personally,
Speaker 2: I'm just giving my personal answer that I support Israel
Speaker 2: as as a Jewish homeland right, and I've for me
Speaker 2: that has enabled my social justice work. It's enabled the
Speaker 2: work I've done because, as you know, my family escaped
Speaker 2: the Holocaust. The people who didn't were murdered in Europe.
Speaker 2: But the fact that there was a place for them
Speaker 2: to go when everybody turned on them is kind of
Speaker 2: what Israel represents for me, which is what we've talked
Speaker 2: about here, and I stand by that. And I would
Speaker 2: also say, ironically, I'm not exactly answering your question quite yet,
Speaker 2: that I've done a lot of DEI work in Israel.
Speaker 2: I have a lot of what I've learned about social
Speaker 2: justice work is work I've done with colleagues in Israel
Speaker 2: and Palestine working on questions. I was just there last
Speaker 2: year working on a question of medical racism against Spadi communities.
Speaker 2: And so it's not like I mean, I think initially
Speaker 2: there was what happened. What's happening is horror, is a horror.
Speaker 2: I've called Nitan Yahoo the pole pod of our generation
Speaker 2: on this show. Does that mean we're going to explode
Speaker 2: everything or that we're going to keep working toward the
Speaker 2: alliances that we've been working toward before. I would just
Speaker 2: say that what happened, the horror of the Hamas crimes
Speaker 2: and then the horror of indiscriminate bombing of civilians has
Speaker 2: been almost too much for us to bear in certain ways. Again,
Speaker 2: I can just say in my life that there was
Speaker 2: a period of walking around in shock. I mean, for me,
Speaker 2: it was is the Holocaust happening again? But also how
Speaker 2: is this situation empowering the very leader who I think
Speaker 2: is horrific in so many ways? And I have a
Speaker 2: lot of students and colleagues who are deeply involved in
Speaker 2: the I don't even think there are two sides for me,
Speaker 2: But you know, I've grad students from Gaza who are
Speaker 2: here at Vanderbilt, and we honestly couldn't talk for the
Speaker 2: first couple of weeks, and some over the past week
Speaker 2: we've started working together and talking and thinking again. I've
Speaker 2: re established my connections with my protest colleagues in the
Speaker 2: Middle East. I'm leaving right now to give a talk
Speaker 2: to the DEI Summit, a major DEI summit, where I'm
Speaker 2: talking about the importance of alliance, and so I'm hoping
Speaker 2: that after really honestly the deep existential PTSD level trauma
Speaker 2: that we've gone through, we can start to think about
Speaker 2: a way out of this that is respectful for multiple positions,
Speaker 2: that's not as extreme. I mean, I know, I understand
Speaker 2: what's happening is so extreme right now, but I would
Speaker 2: just say that it felt like a life or death
Speaker 2: struggle between allies a while ago. And now I'm hopeful,
Speaker 2: at least in the way things stand now, that we
Speaker 2: can take this terrible moment and if it leads to
Speaker 2: a two state solution and out of power and some
Speaker 2: kind of lasting solution. Nothing, nothing, nothing in the world
Speaker 2: makes the death that we've seen on either side worth it.
Speaker 2: This is murder, honestly. But I would just say that
Speaker 2: at least in my life, and hopefully in the talk
Speaker 2: we'll give tomorrow, we can talk about it next week.
Speaker 2: I just think that that this again is another issue
Speaker 2: where we're stronger with alliance, And I would just say
Speaker 2: right now, I mean, right now, who knows what the
Speaker 2: choice will be next year. Right now, the choice is
Speaker 2: between Joe Biden and somebody who potentially is going to
Speaker 2: make this a lot worse for communities of color and
Speaker 2: other people, And so I don't know.
Speaker 1: My friend, Jonathan Mepsel, thank you so much, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. Good luck at the summit, and I look
Speaker 1: forward to talking to you next week about it and
Speaker 1: hearing how it goes. So I appreciate you always making
Speaker 1: the time for us. That is it for me today,
Speaker 1: dear friends on woke f as always power to the
Speaker 1: people and to all the people. Power, get woke and
Speaker 1: stay woke as fuck.