1 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Lokate up Daily with 2 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: Me your Girl Daniel Moody pre recording from the home Bunker, Folks, 3 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: on today's show, I am always happy when I get 4 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: to welcome back our friend or in house doctor, doctor 5 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: Jonathan Metzil. And Jonathan and I have been doing a 6 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,319 Speaker 1: lot of freestyle conversations, just kind of getting into how 7 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: we're feeling about the current moment and what is unfolding 8 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: and the best ways to move forward. And so as 9 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: I open up today's show, you know, for the last months, 10 00:00:55,400 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: I have made a commitment to really do some deep 11 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: excavation work on my own wounds, which we all have, 12 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: and getting to a place of healing only comes from 13 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: right recognizing that you have wounds to heal and also 14 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: recognizing where in fact those wounds originate from. Why do 15 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: I say this to you, because as I continue to 16 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: watch and read and consume the devastation, the death, the 17 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: tragedy of injustice that is unfolding in Israel and Palestine, 18 00:01:53,640 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: the thousands of children that are being slaughtered. Sure that 19 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: just happened to the sole Palestinian American serving in Congress, 20 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: Representative Rashida Tali the twenty two Democrats who turned their 21 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:18,399 Speaker 1: backs on her and decided to turn off her mic 22 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: to say that she is not worthy of being heard. 23 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: I've been trying to understand the source of so much 24 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: pain in Palestine and in Israel, in the United States, 25 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: around the globe, and what I am coming to really 26 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: understand is that we are, in so many ways just 27 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: a bunch of walking wounds. We're the walking woond did capitalism, greed, extraction, misogyny, racism. 28 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 1: It's like death by a million cuts. Capitalism doesn't even 29 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: allow us the time and the space and the focus 30 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: to be able to tend to any of those wounds. 31 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: Because if you stop being productive right, if you take 32 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: a pause, if you try and find the time to 33 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: focus on you, then you're labeled as lazy. You're told 34 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: that you are selfish. We have ingested so many fucking lies, 35 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: which is why people are screaming out right now, nation 36 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: by nation, city by city, town by town. We are 37 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: so wounded and so filled with grief and rage because 38 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: of the persistent and consistent violence, physical, mental, spiritual violence 39 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: that we've been forced to endure and told that that hardship, 40 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: those hardships will they make you stronger, and if you, 41 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: for some reason live at the intersection of multiple marginalized 42 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: groups and you can ascend, well, then that is a 43 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: failure of yours alone, not the system. We have been 44 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: fed so many lies that we believe right now that 45 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: war and death will somehow bring us to a place 46 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: of peace. And what Jonathan and I discussed today, and 47 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: what he ends with saying, is that we need to 48 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: keep having conversations even when they are hard. I mean 49 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: that on a global level, as it pertains to nations 50 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: actually speaking. I mean that on a personal level, as 51 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: we come upon a season of Thanksgiving. We're not everyone 52 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: has fun memories. Not everyone's families are welcoming, our loving, 53 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: our tender. I realize now that the more that we 54 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: ignore our individual wounds and the collective pain and trauma 55 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: that we've experienced and continue to experience, the more damage heartbreak, death, destruction, despair, 56 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: and hopelessness we will see. I know that we feel 57 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: hopeless right now. I know that each and every single 58 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: one of us is shedding tears on a regular basis. 59 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 2: Because we just. 60 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: Don't know what to do. And what I am trying 61 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: to do with my own self care is heal my wounds, 62 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: redirect my energy so that I don't add to the 63 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: pain that is already existing in the world. Because what 64 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: we need is more healed people who can move themselves 65 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: out of marinating in the misery of the current moment 66 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: that we are existing in. Because the thing is, folks, 67 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: that if we do not tend to our own wounds, 68 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: we will never get to a place where we can 69 00:07:50,720 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: imagine outside of current suffering something different. We've been war 70 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: and violence since the birth of this nation, since the 71 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: birth of this goddamn world. Told that there are necessary 72 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: evils and there is necessary violence. Taking life is never necessary. 73 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: Folks will say, well, what about Hitler? What about this person? 74 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: What? 75 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: I would rather we create systems of true and actual 76 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: and needed and necessary reform than just killing people or 77 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: locking them up and throwing away the key, making them 78 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: experience such dehumanization. And then we wonder why recidivism in 79 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: this country is so fucking high. We refuse to teach 80 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: the basics of empathy, of compassion, of justice, of liberation 81 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: for us individually and collectively, and we have to ask ourselves, folks. 82 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: And I posted this on my Instagram, which was a 83 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: video with Angela Davis ask the questions, who benefits from 84 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: our ignorance, who benefits from our pain, who benefits from 85 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: our hopelessness, who benefits from our exhaustion? Because when we 86 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: ask those questions, when we begin to excavate that truth, 87 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: then we really do begin to have our eyes wide 88 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: open and tap into a consciousness level that is necessary 89 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: for through real, deep, sustainable liberation for all people. I 90 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: want us to think bigger, to dream bigger, to have 91 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: a practice of healing ourselves so that we can project 92 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: that healing out into the world because it is so 93 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: desperately needed. Coming up next, my conversation with our friend, 94 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Friends, you know 95 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: that whenever I have the opportunity to talk with our 96 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: friend or in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, I am always, always, 97 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: always thrilled. Jonathan. It has been a week since we've spoken. 98 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: A lot, a lot has happened and continues to happen 99 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: and unfold in this country and across the Middle East 100 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:07,079 Speaker 1: around the globe. I actually would like for change, call 101 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:14,719 Speaker 1: me crazy, to start with something good today, which is up, 102 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: which is we had by at the time of this recording. Friends, 103 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 1: we just went through the twenty twenty three election cycle 104 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: that had multiple state races that, as many have said, 105 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 1: would be a bell weather for twenty twenty four. Now, 106 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: if you've been listening to me, you know that I 107 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: have been talking about the polls, and they are not 108 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: looking favorable right now for Joe Biden. Polls twelve months 109 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: out are kind of like your horoscope. You look at 110 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: them for some context, but they don't give you everything 111 00:11:52,120 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: that you need. However, the election with Ohio certifying enshrining abortion, 112 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: Kentucky governor resoundedly Democrat winning re election UH first black 113 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: woman mayor, even though folks say that she's problematic. We 114 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: will see UH in Philadelphia. Virginia turned blue in the 115 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: state legislator. I just want to get your reactions, Jonathan, 116 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: to you know, we often we spend a lot of 117 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: time talking about really tough issues, really tough feelings and emotions. 118 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: Get your reactions to how people showed up in Ohio, 119 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:47,839 Speaker 1: in Kentucky, in Pennsylvania, in Virginia and what you what that? 120 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 1: What that signals for you? 121 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 2: Wonderful? Well, let me give you my menu and you 122 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 2: tell me which one of these things resonate. Because I 123 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 2: have a number of different thoughts which are I think 124 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 2: synergistic and I agree with you. It was a great night. 125 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 2: And so I would say a couple of things. Number one, 126 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 2: of course, is that the Dobbs decision continues to be 127 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 2: a total loser for Republicans and supporting people's right to 128 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 2: make decisions about their bodies about abortion and reproductive rights. 129 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 2: But also like we've got this new guy Johnson who's 130 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 2: the Speaker of the House, who's talking about again birth 131 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 2: control pills and IVF and stuff like that. And so 132 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 2: number one is I think moving toward just leaning into 133 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 2: continually the importance of people to have the freedom to 134 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 2: make decisions about their own intimate bodily decisions is a 135 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 2: huge winner for Democrats. So number one, I would just say, 136 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 2: I don't know what Republicans are thinking, but to continue 137 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: to double down the way you know Youngin did yesterday, 138 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 2: and even in cases of like rape and incest, there 139 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 2: were that case somewhere where like a ten year old 140 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 2: kid right was raped and and and so you know, 141 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 2: it's it's just, uh, it's just like it's just it's 142 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: just unbelievable to me that that's the platform where people 143 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 2: It's just not where people are at right now. And 144 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 2: so Number one is I just am proud to be 145 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 2: part of a party that is that is allowing people 146 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: to make that choice and is standing up for I 147 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 2: think was such a great injustice, which is a right 148 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: that was enshrined and then taken away. I still think 149 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 2: that that resonates. So that's number one. Number two is 150 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 2: that ultimately, if you're a Democrat, we have much more 151 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 2: strength in alliance, we have much more strength in working together. 152 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 2: We disagree about many fundamental issues, but ultimately we are 153 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 2: stronger together and we can find, I think hopefully compromise 154 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 2: positions that work for the majority of people. And I 155 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 2: think that is also a message, is that Democrats are 156 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: better off working together, even though we have so many 157 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: different different agendas under our tent. And actually I'm preparing 158 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: I'm rushing to the airport after we speak to give 159 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 2: a talk about that point tomorrow as a matter of fact, 160 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 2: because I really do believe that that, especially if you're 161 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 2: on the side of health, justice and equity and all 162 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 2: these other issues, that I think we're better off working together, 163 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: which I think that is a point. Number three is 164 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 2: that we ran really strong candidates. So this is where 165 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 2: there's a little bit of anxiety is that we wrote 166 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 2: we ran really strong candidates. I mean, as I've talked 167 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 2: about a zillion times on this show, Andy Basheer is 168 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 2: as soon to be national leader. He's truly a leader. 169 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 2: I've watched his leadership really with admiration. Right, he's the 170 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 2: state right next to ours. But they're so sporting medicaid 171 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 2: expansion in red state Kentucky. And what I was saying 172 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 2: before was that during the worst moments of the pandemic 173 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 2: and after the murder of George Floyd, Basher was pushing 174 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 2: legislation in Kentucky that would give health insurance to one 175 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 2: hundred percent of black residents in the state, which was 176 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 2: just an incredibly brave and counterintuitive position at that time. 177 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 2: Basically saying were looking at health inequity in the face, 178 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: and we're doing is we're going to correct that, not 179 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 2: just emotionally. We're not going to kneel down with kn't 180 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 2: take cloths and stuff. We're going to address that structurally, right, 181 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: We're going to actually change some of the structural and bounces. 182 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 2: So while a lot of people were signaling their support 183 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 2: for Black Lives Matter and stuff like that, Basher actually 184 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 2: was trying to write structural, structural inequities and also a 185 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 2: smart move during the pandemic when you want people to 186 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 2: have health insurance so that they don't go around spreading 187 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: COVID everywhere. And so in a way, I just think 188 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 2: the Democrats also really just fielded much stronger candidates, and 189 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 2: not just more compelling candidates, but centrist candidates that could 190 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 2: speak to a lot of different people, not radical, extreme candidates. 191 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: And I think that to that point, and I always 192 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: love when you bring up the Kentake clock and the kneeling. 193 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: It's like I always want to put I always want 194 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: to put it out of my mind, and you always 195 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: find a way, no, like at least every every six 196 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: months or so, to like remind me that that happened. 197 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: But you know, it was a moment. O, God, it 198 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: was a moment. But but I think, I think to 199 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: that point it also is a reminder. And I want 200 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: to bring up something that I saw that Rick Santorum said, 201 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: you know very much Republicans are all about saying the 202 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: quiet parts out loud, which is first that again, Donald 203 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: Trump continues to be on a losing streak all of 204 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: the candidates that he backs that he holds up lose. 205 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: Rick Santorum said, this is exactly why we can't rely 206 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: on voting right, Like he said in a post on 207 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: the broke Down Twitter platform that he basically is saying 208 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: it is these issues. He said first of all about abortion, 209 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: calling abortion a sexy issue, which was just so far 210 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: out of his mind to say, and then said that 211 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: this is why people shouldn't be allowed to vote, because 212 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: this is what they don't want. Right in Ohio, in 213 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: these places where people are given the opportunity and they 214 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: see very clearly what these people are trying to come 215 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: in to do to their lives and then they make 216 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: the decision to show up and vote, right, Republicans are saying, yeah, 217 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: we don't want that, we don't want that because they 218 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: know that there isn't a thing that they are running 219 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: on and offering that the majority of Americans want, right. 220 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it's funny thinking about centorium, Like 221 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 2: what happens to conservative commentators who spent time on liberal networks, right, 222 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 2: Like you would think having spent all that time on CNN, 223 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 2: for example, you know, or like number Meghan Kelly on MSNBC, 224 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 2: Like you know, they go back and they become like 225 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 2: they have to prove their chops by being like more radical. 226 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: To the worst of the worst. 227 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, So you know, it's it's interesting that we're talking 228 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 2: about him, but I would just say no, I mean, 229 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 2: I study guns, right, so there's a lot of models 230 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 2: for that, right that that gun in gun reform, eighty 231 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 2: five percent of people support background checks and red flag 232 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 2: laws and all that stuff. But they figured out a 233 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 2: way to like make that irrelevant. By I mean, there's 234 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 2: something very anti democratic that's been going on in a 235 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 2: lot of these issues for a very long time. And 236 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 2: that's why, for example, appealing for abortion, it wasn't remember 237 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 2: and appeal to voters. It was a way to take 238 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 2: over the courts and the Supreme Court. And so Republicans 239 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 2: are really good at understanding how power works and then 240 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 2: appealing to power, not necessarily winning popular opinion. Democrats now 241 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 2: are pushing back by showing the power of grassroots popular opinion. 242 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 2: We ain't heard the last of this debate. I'll tell 243 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: you that, you know, twenty four less in some ways 244 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 2: compelling candidates, unfortunately, I think. But also this debate between 245 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 2: power and populism is so important in presidential elections because 246 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 2: You're not just voting for a popular vote, You're voting 247 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 2: for the electoral college. And so this is just the 248 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 2: beginning of, I think a very intense cycle for a 249 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 2: lot of us. And so I of course disagree with 250 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 2: what terms said, but I also would just say there's 251 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 2: a method behind it that's going to be more important 252 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 2: in twenty four than it is now. 253 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: Quick question, last question before you go, and thank you 254 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: for giving us time today, because I know that you're 255 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: in a rush, which is, how are you seeing in 256 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: terms of the polls, in terms of what is happening 257 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: and what is transpiring in the Middle East with Israel 258 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 1: and Palestine countries beginning to come out and declare that 259 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: they are ending their relationship, they are pausing their relationship, 260 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: and what is picking up on TikTok that I posted 261 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: earlier in the week is this idea, this hashtag genocide 262 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: Joe and this feeling of people saying I'm not voting 263 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: for him, and I match that again with what we 264 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: just saw right take place that Democrats were able to 265 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: do in these right states. What do you think about 266 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: how people are feeling about Joe Biden, the allegiance to Israel, 267 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: and what is taking place in Gaza, and how that 268 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: is going to show up either be the thing that 269 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: gets people to the polls or not. 270 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 2: I can just give you two anecdotal examples from my 271 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 2: own life. You know, again, I'm a Jewish American. I've 272 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 2: spent a lot of time in Israel. I've spent a 273 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 2: lot of time working on Middle East issues. I have 274 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 2: spent a lot of time working for Israel Palestine physicians 275 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 2: for human rights. And I've spent a lot of time 276 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 2: protesting against the Nitan Yahoo government, which in some ways 277 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 2: kind of puts Trump to shame in certain ways in 278 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 2: terms of what it is. But I also believe personally, 279 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 2: I'm just giving my personal answer that I support Israel 280 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 2: as as a Jewish homeland right, and I've for me 281 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 2: that has enabled my social justice work. It's enabled the 282 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 2: work I've done because, as you know, my family escaped 283 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 2: the Holocaust. The people who didn't were murdered in Europe. 284 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 2: But the fact that there was a place for them 285 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 2: to go when everybody turned on them is kind of 286 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 2: what Israel represents for me, which is what we've talked 287 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 2: about here, and I stand by that. And I would 288 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 2: also say, ironically, I'm not exactly answering your question quite yet, 289 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 2: that I've done a lot of DEI work in Israel. 290 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:35,479 Speaker 2: I have a lot of what I've learned about social 291 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 2: justice work is work I've done with colleagues in Israel 292 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 2: and Palestine working on questions. I was just there last 293 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 2: year working on a question of medical racism against Spadi communities. 294 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 2: And so it's not like I mean, I think initially 295 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 2: there was what happened. What's happening is horror, is a horror. 296 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 2: I've called Nitan Yahoo the pole pod of our generation 297 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 2: on this show. Does that mean we're going to explode 298 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 2: everything or that we're going to keep working toward the 299 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 2: alliances that we've been working toward before. I would just 300 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 2: say that what happened, the horror of the Hamas crimes 301 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 2: and then the horror of indiscriminate bombing of civilians has 302 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 2: been almost too much for us to bear in certain ways. Again, 303 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: I can just say in my life that there was 304 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 2: a period of walking around in shock. I mean, for me, 305 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 2: it was is the Holocaust happening again? But also how 306 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 2: is this situation empowering the very leader who I think 307 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 2: is horrific in so many ways? And I have a 308 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 2: lot of students and colleagues who are deeply involved in 309 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 2: the I don't even think there are two sides for me, 310 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 2: But you know, I've grad students from Gaza who are 311 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 2: here at Vanderbilt, and we honestly couldn't talk for the 312 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 2: first couple of weeks, and some over the past week 313 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 2: we've started working together and talking and thinking again. I've 314 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 2: re established my connections with my protest colleagues in the 315 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 2: Middle East. I'm leaving right now to give a talk 316 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 2: to the DEI Summit, a major DEI summit, where I'm 317 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 2: talking about the importance of alliance, and so I'm hoping 318 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 2: that after really honestly the deep existential PTSD level trauma 319 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 2: that we've gone through, we can start to think about 320 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 2: a way out of this that is respectful for multiple positions, 321 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 2: that's not as extreme. I mean, I know, I understand 322 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 2: what's happening is so extreme right now, but I would 323 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 2: just say that it felt like a life or death 324 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 2: struggle between allies a while ago. And now I'm hopeful, 325 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 2: at least in the way things stand now, that we 326 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,479 Speaker 2: can take this terrible moment and if it leads to 327 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 2: a two state solution and out of power and some 328 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 2: kind of lasting solution. Nothing, nothing, nothing in the world 329 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 2: makes the death that we've seen on either side worth it. 330 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 2: This is murder, honestly. But I would just say that 331 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 2: at least in my life, and hopefully in the talk 332 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 2: we'll give tomorrow, we can talk about it next week. 333 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 2: I just think that that this again is another issue 334 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 2: where we're stronger with alliance, And I would just say 335 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 2: right now, I mean, right now, who knows what the 336 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 2: choice will be next year. Right now, the choice is 337 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 2: between Joe Biden and somebody who potentially is going to 338 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 2: make this a lot worse for communities of color and 339 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 2: other people, And so I don't know. 340 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: My friend, Jonathan Mepsel, thank you so much, Thank you 341 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 1: so much. Good luck at the summit, and I look 342 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,959 Speaker 1: forward to talking to you next week about it and 343 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: hearing how it goes. So I appreciate you always making 344 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: the time for us. That is it for me today, 345 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: dear friends on woke f as always power to the 346 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: people and to all the people. Power, get woke and 347 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: stay woke as fuck.