WEBVTT - When Musk-Twitter Deal Will Close, Google's Pixel 7 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:05.520 From the heart of where innovation, money and power colli 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:10.879 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:28.000 Emily jay I remember checking San Francisco, and this is 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.639 Bloomberg Technology coming up in the next hour. A new 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:35.040 court filing says Musk's buyout deal expected to close by October, 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.720 but not a done deal by any means. We're gonna 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.960 tell you what the hold ups are now. Plus, Google 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.080 shows off its new collection of gadgets, including new phones 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.720 and a watch, even teasing a new tablet. How does 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:50.559 it all stack up to Apple? Will take you to 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:54.320 the Maid by Google event? And a car that drives 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.840 itself was supposed to be the future, but the reality 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:01.040 for self driving cars seems to be getting further away. 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.920 Will they even exist in our lifetime? Is this industry 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:09.520 a one billion dollar bust? We'll discuss. Let's get into this. 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:13.080 Musque Twitter and the latest back and forth. The deal 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.720 could potentially close at the end of the month, but 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.679 Twitter saying not necessarily so fast. Bloomer Zone. Uh, Kurt 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.960 Wagner has been going back and forth now for months, Kurt, 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.400 you know what's the hold up now? Why can't they 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.600 just say let's do it. Yeah, well, there's a huge 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.440 distrust factor, Emily. You have to keep that in mind 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:34.559 as we're talking about this, right, because a few days ago, 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:37.160 Ellen said hey, let's do the original deal at the 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.080 original price, and Twitter didn't jump on that immediately, which 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.160 kind of tells you something, right, because it seemed like 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:44.640 the two were kind of meeting where they had originally 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:46.920 thought they were going to in April, and today we 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:48.720 learned that, you know, there's been a hang up around 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.160 some of the language in uh, you know, what Elan 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.200 ultimately said was that there would be a debt contingency 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:57.480 right that that that wasn't in the original agreement. And 0:01:57.520 --> 0:01:59.800 now he's saying, hey, um, you know I have the debt. 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:02.880 It's there, and Twitter is basically saying, prove it, show us, 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.000 because we're not going to sign anything until we have, 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:09.000 you know, a legal document here. And so in the 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.520 last hour or so, the Musque team has said, hey, 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:13.160 we want to stay this trial, we want to we 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:15.519 want to pause this thing, and the Twitter team just 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.640 responded not all that long ago, maybe ten fifteen minutes ago, 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:20.840 to say, um, we don't want to do that. And 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:22.600 now it's up to the judge as to whether or 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:24.720 not they're gonna, you know, put this thing on pause 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.720 or or continue. What's the likelihood the debt contingency would 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.600 actually become an issue. That's a great question. And as 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:33.840 far as we can tell, a lot of the commitments 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.000 that Elon got with, you know, these debt commitments from 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.640 the banks back in April, and may you know those 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.240 are as far as we know, still still good. And 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.480 so Ellen has been saying, well, hey, you know, Twitter 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:48.840 is essentially dragging their feet, like there there's no reason 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.280 that this debt isn't going to come through. Um, but 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:53.560 you know, again, if your Twitter, all you've seen is 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:55.840 this guy kind of play games with you and change 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.239 his mind and flip flop. And so that's where I 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:00.280 think this trust thing comes in, right, is even if 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.520 it there is a high likelihood the debt is indeed there, Um, 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:09.799 clearly Twitter is very nervous or uncomfortable with accepting that 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.520 and moving forward. Now, it also came out that Must 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.679 tried to negotiate a lower price for the deal, and 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:20.520 this was, as I understand it, weeks ago. Twitter said no, 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:25.079 not surprisingly, but he actually did come back to them 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.320 earlier than we saw and said, Hey, maybe I I 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.480 actually want to do this. Yeah, they're his lawyer. Um 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:35.280 actually issued a public statement today that said that Um, 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:38.120 you know, the two sides had talked about lowering that 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.000 that deal price, which again is fifty four and twenty 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:44.160 cents per share, and that Twitter had actually offered a 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.280 slightly lower deal. He said that that cut billions of 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:50.440 dollars off the price, and that Ellen ultimately said no 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.480 because there were other kind of requirements or stipulations with 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:57.520 with that price reduction. Now we're kind of at that stage, Emily, 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:01.080 both sides and both lawyers are really kind of throwing 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.720 everything they can at one another in public here and 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.080 and so it's a little bit, uh, you know, we're 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:08.960 still trying to figure out exactly how that negotiation may 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.680 have played out. But again on the record from meon 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.640 must employer basically saying Twitter tried to lower this by billions. 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.880 Must have said no because he didn't like whatever stipulations 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:20.680 were included with that. All right, Well, it seems to 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:22.599 be an hour by hour, letter by letter, tweet by 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:26.560 tweet situation. Ulris Kurt Wagner, thank you for continuing to 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.560 follow it all for us For the fourth time this year, 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.560 Peloton is laying off a significant number of employees. CEO 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.000 Barry McCarthy told staff today it's part of the effort 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:41.640 to save the struggling fitness maker. Roughly five hundred Peloton 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.960 workers being let go now. This is about twelve of 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:57.080 the workforce. In the span of a year, met as 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.920 a market cap has plunged from over a trillion dollar 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.480 is to just a few hundred million shares of the 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:06.400 social media giant, collapsing some sixty percent over the last 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:09.120 year meeting. The Facebook parent now accounts for less than 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.640 one percent of the SMP five dred the lowest sin. 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.360 What is its signal about the company's future? Let's ask 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.240 our next guest, Chris Kelly. He is Facebook's former chief 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:23.360 privacy officer, it's first general counsel and head of global 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.360 public Policy. Chris, thank you so much for joining us. So, 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:30.680 of course, market cap isn't everything, but it's astounding to 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:33.360 look at those numbers. Do you think we're seeing a 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:37.040 changing of the guard happened before our very eyes, whereby 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:42.000 Meta's influence and power will be significantly diminished relative I 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:46.480 think there's obviously a lot of market concern about the 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:50.160 direction um that the company's going that the move to 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.520 the meta versus a focus, the name change, all of 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.240 these different things that have gone into you know, what 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.320 the what the streets assessment of the business prospects of 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.120 the company are are in the long term, and so 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:04.960 that has obviously weighed on the stock quite extensively. Um 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:07.720 in the long run that companies will position and I 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.800 think in general, but needs to to figure out what 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.480 it's going to emphasize in terms of how they're going 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.440 to continue to make, you know, great profits and how 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.599 to you know, lead this transition into the metaverse, which 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.280 is one of the things that they've articulated as the 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:24.599 as the you know, the main goal of the company 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.039 by changing the name. Um. You know, in the meantime, 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:29.320 they have a whole bunch of these different businesses that 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.920 operate extraordinarily well, and they're gonna need to make the 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.479 case um more to the street about about how those 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:39.360 have growth prospects and and ultimately that should result in 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:41.760 a recovering the market cap over time. But you know, 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.800 this is the way that the marks major companies these days. 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.520 It's always it's always a challenge. Meantime, you've got the 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.040 Supreme Court taking a look at Section to thirty. How 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.320 big a blow could that be for META if the 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.720 power of that law is eroded or erased. Yeah, I 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:00.919 Section two thirty has has had a great deal of power, 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:05.040 I think in protecting UM the reasonable business decisions of 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.680 all companies in the space, not just you know, Facebook 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:10.720 Meta UM. And and the threats to that are very 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:15.200 real right now. UM. The upholding of the Texas law 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.360 by the Fifth Circuit, the upholding of the Florida law 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.720 in the in the eleven circuits so far. UM, there's 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:23.920 just a whole bunch of kind of wacky stuff from 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.280 traditional first amateurs prudence going on right now in the 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.080 courts because of the way that they've been packed UM. 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.000 And from there, you know, the companies have to be 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:35.240 very focused on this. UM. I think that there's been 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.360 a lot of good commentary that says that that the 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:41.120 companies might end up engaging in kind of more UM 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:45.840 takedowns of of improper behavior, even more takedowns of improper 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.880 behavior if there were to be some sort of repeal 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:51.520 of Section to thirty or or or limitation of it 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.240 by the interpretation of these statutes, which pretty clearly both 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.640 conflict with Section two thirty UM and and the first 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.640 Amendment in a lot of these cases is too So 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:02.720 I think that that's a it's an ongoing work for 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.720 the companies that they're watching it very closely. But you know, 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:10.160 Facebook and Facebook, Meta Google in their you know, in 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.640 their YouTube division, UM, all sorts of the different companies 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:17.800 that are offering media UM and and also content um 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:22.120 you know, user generated content have been adapting their policies 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.160 to to get to some sort of stasis, which is 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:29.000 I think okay right now, UM. But they might have 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.520 to change it pretty radically if their protections are repeated. Meantime, 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.559 you've got federal regulation you know that could potentially come 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.080 with this clobusch Are Grassley law. But there's this market 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:42.679 cap provision as I understand it, and Facebook wouldn't even 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.520 qualify because you know, in terms of its market size 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:50.240 it's too small. You've got leader culture the ftc UM 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:53.839 scrutinizing Facebook from another direction, and you know, some of 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:57.800 the you know, let's say Facebook uh defenders would say 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.400 Facebook is getting an undue amount of scrutiny for the 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:03.360 size UM at least if you look at the market 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:05.480 size of the company today. What do you think about that. 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.439 The idea that Facebook is a you know, is a 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:15.360 monopolist exercising you know, unjust unallowable monopoly power to either 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.760 maintain a monopoly or to gain a monopoly has always 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:22.400 been a pretty far fetched vision. A whole bunch of 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.000 people who just didn't like some decisions that the company 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.520 was making. Um, you know, the antitrust law is supposed 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:32.880 to to protect competition, not competitors, and Facebook has had 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.319 some competitors who are who are complaining over time, and 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.320 some smaller companies who would like to get into the field. 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:42.000 But the the idea that that that they're exercising the 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:45.960 sort of bottleneck control that's the historic worry of antitrust 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.720 law has just always been incredibly difficult, which is why 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:51.760 Judge Bosberg you know, dismissed the suit in the first 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.640 instance that the FDCs you know, you know, pleadings were 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.040 sort of conclusory on that front. He came back and 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.280 he let the lawsuit pursue with the regard to the 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.040 federal gover the states, you know, lawsuit was dismissed and 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:04.400 its entirety they're on appeal right now. But I don't 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:08.079 think that appeal will be successful, um ultimately, and so 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:10.600 it's it's a it's a and if you look at 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:12.559 the things that they wanted to go after Facebook for 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:16.360 the acquisition of Instagram, the acquisition of WhatsApp, UM, there's 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:18.920 a real read of those is more defensive against other 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.679 big players in the industry like Apple and Google who 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.400 controlled the mobile operating systems UM at the time. And 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.599 so it's it's one of those things where from a 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.200 traditional antitrust law perspective, it was always a pretty far 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:34.040 fetched case and um, you know, it's proceeding now, but 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.760 after you know, some significant um, you know, kind of 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:41.520 hand slapping by a fairly good and you know, principle 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:45.480 of traditional antitrust judge in in d C. That said, 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:49.000 Facebook still has a massive cultural and societal impact. We 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.520 were just speaking with Francis Hogan, the you know now 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:55.920 famous uh Facebook with whistleblower, and she expressed her concern that, 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.880 you know, especially with Cheryl Sandberg leaving that Mark zucker 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.400 still only really has Mark Zuckerberg to hold him accountable. 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:05.760 Take a listen to what she had to say. You know, 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.720 Marcus surrounded himself with people who tell him the same 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.240 kinds of stories over and over again. You know, Facebook, 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.320 it's just a mirror. It doesn't have responsibility. All these 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:16.640 things that we're complaining about have always been present. We're 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:18.640 just showing them to people who don't. We don't play 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.079 any role in this. We have no power. What do 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:24.079 you think? I mean? I do think that there's a 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:28.040 degree to which, um, you know, Facebook as a gatherer 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:33.719 of um of of cultural expression is merely reflecting what 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:36.599 what is going on in reality. But the idea that 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.120 it shapes it instead is something that the company has 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.000 has embraced in its research internally, as as a lot 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.280 of the documents that Francis Haggan put out showed that that, 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:47.559 you know, I do think that the company should be 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:49.959 more transparent about that research and that they should be 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:54.160 engaged in a dialogue saying, look, we understand that that 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:59.760 there are challenges um to the change that social media presents, 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.839 UH to the way that people traditionally experienced media, and 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.800 and we're trying to lead them and and and now 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:09.200 you know, moving into the metaverse. We want to make 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.000 sure that that safety and you know, and and sort 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:16.440 of mental health as people experience these platforms is part 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:18.400 of the mission UM and doing that in a good 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.600 way is part of the mission. You know, I think 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:23.560 I've seen some pretty good action on that front from 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:27.040 the company in the essay as the metaverse pivot has 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.760 continued to happen UM on that front, and I think 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:32.839 that that, you know, the fact that a lot of 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.840 these documents have come out and have revealed internal research 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:40.880 um UH in the company has been mostly a cleansing 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.319 opportunity for the company to to talk about these things 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.280 more openly. That Francis point seems to be that the 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:49.720 company shouldn't be hiding these and I think that that's 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.360 mostly right. I kind of ask your thoughts about Elon 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:56.480 Musk and Twitter. I'm curious what you think the risks are. 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.640 Does Twitter and Twitter under Elon Musk attract or Facebook 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:04.160 like problems because it's run by a soul and very 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:09.199 public billionaire. You know his commentary about how simple this 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.160 could be, and you just, you know, reinstate some of 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.240 these figures you just allow, you know, we we want 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.400 to go to the limits to free speech in in 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.880 law and America where we're gonna try to step back 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.520 seem a lot more like what you know, people like 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.839 Francis Huggan or accusing Mark Zuckerberg of than what has 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.400 actually happened at Facebook and Meta and there's a real danger. 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:34.240 And Ellen's commentary on this has been simplistic and um 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:37.920 and and and ill informed in most cases, um, almost 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.079 as zill informed as some of the stuff that he 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:42.800 put out recently about you know, it was effectively Russian 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:46.040 propaganda about Ukraine. A lot of these commentary there are 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.120 areas where he just doesn't have a lot of expertise. 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:50.360 And look, I I drive a Tesla, I was an 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.120 investor in space accent. I mostly believe in Eila Musk 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:56.480 and in his ability in certain areas. But the way 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:00.839 that he is you know, roundly dismissed, you know, years 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:05.040 of research and thoughtfulness in Twitter's content policies and in 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.800 terms of ways to approach these difficult matters, Um doesn't 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.480 bode well for Nilon must brunch Twitter, and so I 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.640 mean if it if it ends up descending into four chan, Um, 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.800 it's not something that's ever going to be as valuable 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:18.800 as he needs it to be. All Right, Well, that's 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.640 quite a you know put comparison there. Uh, certainly much 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:26.120 remains to be seeing Chris Kelly, Facebook former chief privacy officer, 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:27.880 are gonna have you back here on the show, Chris, 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:30.400 uh and hearing away and thank you all right. Coming 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.560 up the myth of the driverless car, we're gonna talk 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.000 about why a future where you can relax behind the 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.120 wheel is still pretty far out. That's our big take. 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:54.760 Next this is Bloomberg Investors have been a hundred billion 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.680 dollars on the self driving car industry, but how close 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.920 are we really to truly seeing them? On the oade Well, 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:05.760 driverless car engineer and Pronto CEO Anthony Lewandowski says this 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:09.840 future is years, if not decades away work. Max Chafkin 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.400 spoke to him and joins us now for more details 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.800 on what that means exactly and if that name sounds 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.480 familiar Max, of course. Anthony Lewandowski, I feel like we 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.960 have to say at the start was indicted for charges 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.400 of theft and stealing trade secrets from Google. Uh. He 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.400 served a few months in prison. Um, what's he up 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.920 to now? So yeah, Lewandowski is a very well known 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.600 figure in this field and as he said, extremely controversial. 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:35.880 So he is kind of the guy who kicked the 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.760 whole thing off. He created the prototype that became Google's 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:42.480 driverless car. Then, as he said, when he went to Uber, 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.440 he uh was in the middle of this very messy 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.360 two billion dollar lawsuit that ended, um, you know, with 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.200 money being paid and also this this indictment, and then 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:56.000 he was pardoned by foreign President Trump. Uh, he's back 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.200 and he has kind of turned critic, which is very 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.320 interesting because he was probably you know, one of the 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.920 most outspoken boosters in the industry, particularly one of the 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.920 people you know, pushing towards commercialization of these robotaxis. And 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:11.320 what are you saying now, basically is that when you 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.720 look at the progress that the industry has made, when 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.440 you look at what Weymo and Crews and some of 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.200 these smaller companies that have raised huge amounts of money 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.560 have done, you know, it isn't a whole lot. It's 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.040 a handful of cars and a handful of cities. They're 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:27.720 still extremely restricted, and you're still getting you know, all 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.040 of these sort of videos on YouTube and else where 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:34.200 on social media of driverless cars behaving badly or weird 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:36.920 or whatever. And and so there are a lot of reasons, 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.640 uh to to have skepticism about the industry, and it's 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.600 and and yet another one is you know this pioneer, 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.200 this booster, turning critic. So the headline of your story 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:48.200 is self driving cars are starting to look like a 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.240 hundred billion dollar bust. You talk about weymo car is 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:56.920 getting confused by things as simple as traffic cones. What's 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:58.880 the real outlook? When are they When are they going 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:02.200 to be hitting the roads or or are they ever? Well, 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:06.000 you know what we've heard from the kind of industry, Waymo, 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:07.760 Cruise and so on, it is basically it's been two 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.439 years out uh for like the last ten years. I mean, 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.080 you know, even going all the way back to like 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:19.360 twenty when Google at the time was unveiling these cars. 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.600 They were saying, oh, we can handle any road. And 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.720 then we saw Chris Urmson, who was running the program 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:25.920 for a while, say that his child was eleven, was 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:28.200 gonna have um, you know, his drivers was never gonna 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.560 have a driver's license. And we're kind of still in 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.320 that place where where it's this kind of near term 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.680 uh thing, but it's all very vague. And what what 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:38.840 would Lewandowski is saying, and what what you hear if 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:41.800 you talk to people who are outside of the of 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.400 the sort of core of this industry is that we're 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.399 talking decades, We're not talking years. Now. This isn't to 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.480 say that there aren't advances, There are an important technology 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.640 happening that some of this stuff won't in fact change 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.399 the world. It's just that the full blown you know, 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.159 level four, level five autonomy, this is the idea that 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:00.840 you get in a car with out of steering wheel 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.440 that is looking increasingly shaky. And I think one of 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.639 the reasons you see, really the only two companies who 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:09.359 are who are putting huge amounts of money into this, 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.800 Weymo and Cruise both have you know, big corporate backing 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.639 Weymo in the case of Google Alphabet and Cruise of 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.679 course is GM quickly Max. Our kids are still going 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.560 to get driver's licenses, right, yeah, I think unfortunately that's 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:26.200 the case. Um. Now again, there are huge improvements, and 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:30.040 I think on the kind of advanced driver assistance technology, 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.240 our kids will maybe driving much safer cars. Um we're 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:36.119 seeing that, you know, Tesla's autopilot, even though they market 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.400 that as self driving, but but it's really a really 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.639 great driver assistance technology as well as GM, Super Cruise 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.280 and others. So cars are definitely getting safer. There are 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.680 technological advances, but this kind of crazy steering wheel free 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:54.160 future um looks increasingly shaky. All right, take note parents everywhere. 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:56.840 Max Chafkin excellent story by You can check it out 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:09.720 in Bloomberg Business Seek Thanks back, Welcome back to Bloomberg 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:11.760 Technology and Emily Chang in San Francisco. We're gonna get 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:16.440 back to September payrolls coming out Friday. But jobs news 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:19.400 has been moving markets for months as the FED works 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:24.480 to cut inflation. Thursday, no exception. Tech again in the headlines. 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:26.600 Are at bood Log back with the top tech stories, 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.720 and yeah, believe it not. There was news in the 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:32.080 last twenty four hours that had nothing to do with 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.239 Elon Musk, and it was very focused on jobs. As 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:37.560 you say, you see Amazon softed by half of the cent. 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.040 They're adding a hundred and fifty thousand workers for the 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:44.359 holiday period, same as they added one temporary workers to 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:47.840 handle that demand. But what's interesting is it to assign 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:52.159 the demands there. Bloomberg scoop General Electric cutting hundreds of jobs, 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:56.040 according to sources, in its manufacturing unit that's responsible for 0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:00.719 making wind turbines for wind energy because the demand has 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:02.960 gone and of course Peloton we've been speaking about during 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.040 the show. I find Amazon really interesting. Right We're all 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:10.240 braced for payrolls data on Friday. There's mixed signals about 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:12.840 what the jobs market is like right now in the 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.840 United States. But it's a big vote of confidence in 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.000 consumer demand that Amazon is bringing in the same reinforcement 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.080 for this holiday shopping period that it did in one, 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:24.760 even at a time where sellers and merchants and the 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:28.080 Amazon dot Com platform are worried they're bracing for a 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.359 slowdown in consumer spending due to inflation and perhaps and 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:33.960 pulled forward if that spending to earlier in the year. 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:36.879 You see the details of what Amazon's doing behind me. 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:39.320 But you know, remember between March and June of this year, 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.600 largely through attrition, they reduced headcount by around a hundred 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.879 thousand to undo the investment of the pandemic era. Then 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.040 this Peloton. Another five hundred jobs to be cut from Peloton, 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:52.480 and make that around forty six hundred so far this year. 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.560 Is this the final step in Baron McCarthy's plan to 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:58.679 turn around Peloton's fortunes. Of course, we've all gone back 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:00.760 to the gym, some of us, some of us back 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.440 to the office using our pelotons less. But they've had 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:05.960 to reduce head count in a period where growth has 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.840 gone and they're pivoting to a more asset light model. 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.879 So really interesting to see what text doing in this climate, 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.240 particularly when it comes to the jobs front. All right, 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:18.000 I'd love to thank you. Meantime, Google announced a suite 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.720 of new products at the annual Made by Google event. 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.440 Along with the Pixel seven and Pixel Watch, Google teased 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.359 an upcoming Pixel tablet to take on Apple's iPad and 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:30.800 Amazon's Echo devices. Let's bring in Rick Osterlowe, Google Senior 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:33.440 vice president of Devices and Services. Rit great to have 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:37.840 you back with us. So new phones and features, uh 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:41.720 and you know, well, we're in a very difficult economic 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.200 time where consumers are under pressure paying more for everything 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:48.520