1 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: We are in a verdict. Watch here at crime Stories. 2 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: As a jury deliberates the case of Derek Chauvin, former 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: cop now on trial for the murder of mister George Floyd, 4 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: you will learn that on May twenty five of twenty twenty, 5 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: mister Derek Shavin betrayed this badge. In opening statements, prosecutor 6 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: Jerry Blackwell making the case that Chauvin's use of excessive 7 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: and unreasonable force caused Floyd's death. He put his knees 8 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: upon his neck and his back, grinding and crushing him. 9 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: The prosecution then showed the jury nine minutes and twenty 10 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: nine seconds of cell phone video that shocked the world. 11 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: Floyd insisting he can't breathe more than twenty times bystanders 12 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: pleading with officers to do something, but you can get 13 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: them up the ground. You've been a bomb right now? 14 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: Six minutes, not for seven minutes, eight minutes in Domina 15 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: moves yeah, bro sures wants Floyd lose consciousness. Chauvin took 16 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: notes as the video played. Of course, as trial lawyers, 17 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: we all know that defendants are told when you don't 18 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: know what else to do, look down and take a 19 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: note or at least for ten like you are, even 20 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: though j Simpson pretended to take notes and let me 21 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: turned out later there were just a bunch of doodles. Again, 22 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation 23 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: in series Sex and one eleven. Let me introduce to 24 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: you an all star panel to make sense of what's 25 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: happening in court. First of all, we're now lawyer and 26 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: Jim Elliott Butler's snow LLLP Instagram Jim Elliot in nineteen 27 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: fifty seven, Doctor Jory Crassen, police psychologist, faculty Saint Leo University, 28 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: Research consultant with the Blue Wall Institute, author of Operation 29 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: so OS practical recommendations to stop officer suicide. Doctor William 30 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: Maroney and name you nowell Chief Medical Examiner, Bay County, Michigan, 31 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: author of American Narcan. He actually created a mobile opioid 32 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: treatment center to basically fight the opioid epidemic. One handed. 33 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: Karen L. Smith joining me, forensic host an expert of 34 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: Shattered Soul's podcast at Karen's Forensics and bear Bones Forensics 35 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: dot com. But first to Christie Missouri joining me Emmy 36 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: Award winning investigative reporter, and you can find her at 37 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: Successful strategies, PR and crisis communications. Christy, the jury is 38 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: in deliberations. How long have they been out, including yesterday? 39 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: So they deliberated until nine o'clock Eastern time. Then they 40 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: were sequestered. They're slated to be back in. But you 41 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: can feel the angst in this city right now. It's 42 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: the same tension that gripped Los Angeles in the Rodney 43 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: King case, in the O. J. Simpson case. Three thousand 44 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: members of the National Guard are out patrolling the streets 45 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: as our protesters. It is a city on edge. This 46 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: jury is debating thirteen days plus of testimony, and of course, 47 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 1: right in the middle of this, congress Person Maxine Waters 48 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: drops a bomb basically insisting for a guilty verdict. The 49 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: jury may very well hand down a guilty verdict, but 50 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: to have a congress person comment on the case very 51 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: unusual and potentially grounds for a mistrial. Guys, you heard 52 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: a little bit of what the prosecution had to say 53 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: an opening statements, But listen to this. Defense attorney Eric 54 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: Nelson argued Floyd's death was caused by under lying heart 55 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: disease and drug youth, and you will learn that Derrek 56 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: Chauvin did exactly what he had been trained to do 57 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: over the course of his nineteen year career. Officers initially 58 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: responded to a call about a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. 59 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: The evidence will show that when confronted by police, mister 60 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: Floyd put drugs in his mouth in an effort to 61 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: conceal them from the police. The defense says officers struggled 62 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: to get a Floyd to comply that this was not 63 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: an easy struggle. Straight out to doctor William Moroney, Chief 64 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: Medical Examiner, Bay County, Michigan. Doctor Moroney, thank you so 65 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: much for being with us. We need your insight because 66 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: I know that George Floyd may have had, well did 67 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: have drugs in his system. There's no may to it. 68 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: But in my mind, that's like saying, my producer Jackie 69 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: set in my house on fire, but I died of 70 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: a not the house fire. It just how does it 71 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: compute in your mind as a renowned medical examiner. Well, 72 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: I go to the Department of Justice assessment of the autopsy, 73 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: which was done by the Armed Forces Medical Examiner Office, 74 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: which has no dog in the hunt. They're absolutely down 75 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: the middle, impartial. You have to look at what they said. 76 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: They approved the doctor Baker autopsy. It was a cardial 77 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: pulmonary arrest during restraint and subduel in the presence of 78 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: sentinel intoxication. Okay, you know why I would have to 79 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: school you on the stand of course, you're much more 80 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: brilliant than any of us put together. Actually, nobody knows 81 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: what you just said, Soumi damn for all us law 82 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: yours and forensics experts and psychologists on the panel today. 83 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: First of all, what were you saying about who conducted 84 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: the autopsy? And remember, in regular people talk, the Hennepig 85 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: County Medical Examiner, doctor Baker produced an autopsy report that 86 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: made the decision. And remember this is a guy who 87 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: works for government, who doesn't work for the defense, that 88 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: there was a cardio pulmonary arrest. Now, the prosecution didn't 89 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: like that because they want that word asphyxiation. And there 90 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: was no signs of lack of oxygen with muscle damage 91 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: with petit kii in the autopsy. But it was because 92 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: George Floyd could not tolerate the subduel, he could not 93 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: tolerate the restraint. And in the that the question is 94 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: about the drugs, Doctor Baker answered a question if if 95 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: he didn't have subduel and he didn't have restraint, and 96 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: you found him in an empty room in a house, 97 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: what would it cause of death been? And he said 98 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: fentonel intoxication. And then doctor Baker's teacher was offered the 99 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: same question and she made it clear, but he was 100 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: in subduel in restraint by the police. And they said, 101 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: but if he wasn't and you had this level of fentanyl, 102 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: and she had to agree. Okay, is Michael examiner system 103 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: pays the same thing, because yeah, to say, if he 104 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: wasn't restrained, I would saying the cod cause of death 105 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: was fentnyl, but he was restraint. So I mean, you 106 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: might as well write on that report that you're talking 107 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: about if little green man from Mars came in and 108 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: sliced a throat then but that didn't happen, and your 109 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: pretend world that he wasn't subdued didn't happen. He was, 110 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: to dude. So I'm not quite sure, doctor Moroney, what 111 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: that has to do with anything, because those are not 112 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: the facts. Physiologically, his restraint was not tolerated. He could 113 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: not tolerate the subdual by the police. The autopsy was 114 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: very clear and the toxicology was very clear, and I 115 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: don't I'm you know, I'm a libertarian. I'm not a 116 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: Republican or a Democrat. I'm down the middle. I'm a 117 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: little you know, I'm the off the table baby. So 118 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: I don't have a vote either way. But if you 119 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: look at the data and you look at the report 120 00:08:54,559 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: in the autopsy, the causation is not in the autopsy. 121 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: That was what the criminal trial was to develop. But 122 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: the autopsy was very clear. It said sentinel intoxication. It 123 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: didn't say just fentyl. So are you today trying to 124 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: tell me that was the cod the fentyl b The 125 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: cause is cardial pulmonary arrest, and a contributing factor was 126 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: the fentinyl in the presence of fentyl intoxication. He can't 127 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: separate it. What what we were arguing is was this 128 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: manslaughter and sentinel would not be manslaughter. Fentyl would be 129 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: an accident. Okay, being forced down on his stomach with 130 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: a knee in his neck and him saying I can't 131 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: breathe fit into this scenario. It doesn't. That's why it's multivariable. 132 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: That down on the ground and the knee is not 133 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: being tolerated by mister Floyd's body crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 134 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: we are talking about the trial of former officer Derek 135 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: Chauvin and the death of George Floyd. Doctor Moroney is 136 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: with me, the chief medical examiner Bay County, Michigan, author 137 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: of American Narcan. Isn't it true, doctor Moroney, that the 138 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: prosecution had a private autopsy from not one, but two 139 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: other medical examiners and they both concluded that the cause 140 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: George Floyd's death was asphyxiation caused by net compression. Well, 141 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: that was the Boden autopsy, that was the dominant news force. 142 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: And doctor Boden has never prescribed fentonel. He's never treated 143 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:56,239 Speaker 1: I'm asking you a direct question about two other autopsy 144 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: reports by two medical examiners that both sad the cause 145 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: of death. I'm not asking you if they have experience 146 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: in fentyl. I'm asking you about their determination in cause 147 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: of death. And I guarantee you, doctor Moroney, that many 148 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: medical examiners across the country don't have the experience that 149 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: you have infantanyl. Are you suggesting that they're all wrong too? 150 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: Because they don't know as much about fentanyl as you? Do. 151 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: I'm suggesting doctor Boden doesn't know as much about fentanyl. 152 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: Do you think he knows anything about asphyxiation? I think yeah, 153 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: but that wasn't the apt but it's in his autopsy report, 154 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: and not just Bodens, but another medical examiners as well. 155 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: The most objective autopsy report is the Armed Forces medical 156 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: examining reporting to you the Department of Justice. Are you 157 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: suggesting go to two medical examiners that said asphyxiation didn't 158 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: know what they were talking about, saying they're not as 159 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: objective as the Armed Forces military? Some medical examiner autospy. Yeah, yeah, 160 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: guys were talking. I don't go either way, right, Okay, 161 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: So you choose to ignore those two medical examiners and 162 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: stick with the one that fincent with your expertise, which 163 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: is fentanyl. Take a listen to this. The trial's first witness, 164 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: nine dispatcher Jennas Scurry. She testified that she called the 165 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: police on the police after seeing what was happening to 166 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: Choyd back while watching from mister velance camera. And my 167 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: instincts were telling me that something's wrong. Something has not raised. 168 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: I don't know what, but something was raed. You're hearing 169 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: actually the dispatcher, the first witness, Jennas Scurry. You heard 170 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: a little bit of her voice who testified that she 171 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: called police on the police, and let's take a listen 172 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: to that. And I'm only call you were also hearing 173 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: the voice of our friends at CBS News. But take 174 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 1: to listen to the nine one one call. Hey, this 175 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: is Channel one. It was he so, Um, I just 176 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 1: wanted to let you know about the person was a 177 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: nine at twenty six or two Bluemington and then I 178 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: didn't know. You can call me an interview onto, but 179 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: we have the temeras up for three twenties call. Oh 180 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: did they only put him in the name of Tabon 181 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: he started moving him? Um, and three twenty over at 182 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: cup Boots. Um. I don't know if they have used 183 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: force or not. They got something out of the back 184 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: of the squad and all of them sat on this man. 185 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: So I don't know if they needed you or not. 186 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: That they haven't had anything to me yet. Yeah, they 187 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,719 Speaker 1: don't say anything. Listen just to pick to one still 188 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: in college foot Okay, I'll find out, no problem. We 189 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: don't get to ever see it, so when we see it, 190 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 1: we're just well, well, so let's do a little different, 191 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: all right. Thank you. Also take a listen to another witness, 192 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: Donald Williams, who also calls nine one one of the 193 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: emergency Designy seven untiller TVC in front of a Chicago's shore. 194 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: He is pretty much just killed this guy that wasn't 195 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: resisting the rest. Yeah, he's knee on the dude, Nick 196 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: the whole time office to nine eighty seven. The man 197 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: went went top breathing. He wasn't resisting the rest of nothing. 198 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: He was already in handcuff. They pretty much his stupid dude. 199 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: I don't even know if he did. Sure he was 200 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: not responsible in the hamble and just came the goat 201 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: him in The officer that was just out of here 202 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: left the one that asked you to murder see in 203 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: front of everybody on thirty thirty eight in Chicago. Okay, 204 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: would you like to seek with the sergeant? Yeah, he 205 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: wasn't focus with the man. He was un REPARTI he 206 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: wasn't presisting the rest for any of it. Joining me 207 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: right now. Jim Elliott, veteran trial lawyer at Butler snow LLLP. Jim, 208 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: what do you make of the closing arguments? And I 209 00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: was interested that when the testimony or the arguments got 210 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: very uncomfortable for a chauvin, he immediately started doodling. I 211 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: don't know about you, but when I would prep witnesses 212 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: for trial, they typically we're not sitting out the courtroom 213 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: like a defendant would be, but I definitely instructed them 214 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: on how to behave when up on the stand. One 215 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: don't wear flip flops, don't you gum, don't show up drunk, 216 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: don't wave your hands around. I'd often give them a 217 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: notebook to hold in their hands when they would go 218 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: sit down so they wouldn't gesticulate wildly in front of 219 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: the jury. To look at the jurars, to think before 220 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: they answer, to go slowly. That is textbook instruction to 221 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: a defendant when you're in a tight spot. Don't look 222 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: over at the jury, don't look alarm, look down and 223 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: start taking notes for sure, because you can bet that 224 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: hyper focused on him the entire time. I mean whether 225 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: he so he was conscious of it or not. I 226 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: mean they're looking at him. And body language speaks volumes 227 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: to a lot of people, it really does, Doctor Jorry 228 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:11,479 Speaker 1: cross In Psychologist Professor Saint Leo University. Doctor Jory explained 229 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: to me the non verbal communication going on in this 230 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: courtroom with a defendant, Derek Scheman sitting there in front 231 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: of the jury. Well, non verbal is the body language, 232 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: and it originates psychologically out of the subconscious, so you 233 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: don't have conscious control of it. It's well researched that, 234 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: you know, we see that in confessions people that are 235 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: making gestures that show or denote guilt. That's also associated 236 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: with stress. The body language that he had definitely showed 237 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: a lot of pressure and a lot of stress, even 238 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: to the point where he was possibly questioning his own 239 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: reactions to the testimony as I watched it in the courtroom. 240 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: And when you were watching the testimony, what exactly did 241 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: you observe nervous reaction? And he wasn't aware of it, 242 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: like the fidgeting with his hands and looking around at 243 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: times looked at the jury, but his look on his 244 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: face was more of just a straight, pale look. There 245 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: was no gesture of like a smile or a smirk 246 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: or anything like that. Three times that I saw, according 247 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: to my notes, that to Karen al Smith, forensic expert, 248 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: host of Shatter Soul podcast. Karen when he was on 249 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: the ground, when he was ultimately put into the ambulance. 250 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: Of course, it was too late then because he had 251 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: already flatlined. What for what forensic evidence stands out is 252 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: significant to you, Well, we heard from the forensic analysts 253 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: who went to the scene. Unfortunately it was at nighttime. 254 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: Rainhead watched over the pavement and there really wasn't a 255 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: whole lot left. One thing that did stick out to me, Nancy, 256 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: is the defense argued this delay and resuscitation. Didn't blame 257 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: me ums or paramedics, but says there was a delay 258 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: and resuscitation. Well, guess what, that's part of a police 259 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: officer's job. That person is in your care and control. 260 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,479 Speaker 1: You're responsible for their well being. And if their argument 261 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: is that the resuscitation efforts were delayed, well that goes 262 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: right back to the responsibility of the officers on the 263 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: scene and their failure to act crime stories with Nancy 264 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: Grace circling back to doctor William Moroney, the chief medical 265 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: Examiner Bay County, Michigan, joining us the author of American Narcan, 266 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: Doctor Moroney weighing in on the true cause of death 267 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: of George Floyd. Again, doctor Moroney, thank you for being 268 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: with us. You went through the original Hinnepen County Medical 269 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: Examiner's autopsy report, and you highlighted voluntary use of fentonel 270 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: and other factors playing into death. But is it true, 271 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: doctor Moroney, that not too but three medical examiners state 272 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: that this is a homicide. They did, and we agree 273 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: with the cause of death or the manner of death. 274 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: Homicide is also supported by the Department of Justice and 275 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 1: the Armed Forces. We agree to that it's what other 276 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: contributing factors were there. But I also want to impart 277 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: this is that the medical examiner definition of homicide by 278 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: the National Association of Medical Examiners is not the same 279 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: as the Legal Felonious Law Dictionary homicide definition. But we 280 00:19:55,040 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: do agree it is probably related back to the adio 281 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: pulmonary arrest in subdual and I'm going to admit that 282 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: there's excessive use of force that mister Floyd could not tolerate. 283 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: Why do you say that You're going to admit it. 284 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 1: That sounds like some type of nefarious comment. Why are 285 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: you admitting it? It's clear it's on videos that the 286 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: excessive use of force is not part of the charges. 287 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, doctor Moroney, did you think you're in a 288 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: courtroom right now, because we're not No, I'm I'm completely 289 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: ignorant to those definitions. It is the man fluttered by 290 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: the medical examiner definition, and it's cardial pulmonary arrest in 291 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: the presence of subdual and restraint. Are you saying are 292 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: you saying subdual? You're talking about Derek Schouvin's knee on 293 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:02,880 Speaker 1: top of George Floyd's neck. I mean, what idiot over 294 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: the age of eight doesn't know if you put your 295 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: knee on somebody's windpipe, they can't breathe. That is the 296 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: excess of use of force. I mean, I'm having a 297 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: hard time with you, Moroni, and I'll tell you why, 298 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: because it's so obvious. And you're talking about fentonel and 299 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: you're talking about a heart problem. The man had a 300 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: knee on his windpipe. I don't even know what you're 301 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: talking about it. And why do you keep talking about 302 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: the DOJ and the Armed Forces. It's the Hannepen County 303 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: Medical Examiner, hello, Because those are objective sources that agree 304 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: with manslaughter. That's why. Well, what does that have to 305 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: do with this What does the DOJ and the Armed 306 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: forces have to do with this case? Because he needed 307 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: an objective source. You can't look at contractual medical examiners 308 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: reviews and separate autopsies because they're being paid. The Department 309 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: of Justice has no dog in this hunt. They're just 310 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: trying to be objective to Are you referring to the 311 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: Hennepin County Medical Examiner? You know he was called as 312 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,719 Speaker 1: a witness by the prosecutor. Who is he? He didn't 313 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 1: help them? Who doctor Baker? Okay? Yes, excuse me? Are 314 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: you referring to the Hennepin County Medical Examiner when you 315 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: keep talking about the DOJ and the Armed Forces? No, 316 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: the Armed Forces and the DOJ made an assessment of 317 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: doctor Baker's autopsy from Hennepin County and they agreed with it. Okay, 318 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: And my question is to you, did the DOJ or 319 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: the Armed Forces perform their own autopsy? They reviewed reports, 320 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: no autopsy, So no, no, they didn't. No. Okay, So 321 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: you're trying to cram down my throat something the federal 322 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: government reviewed notes and looked at a video. Oh h 323 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: double l n oh, Ronnie, you know, round and round 324 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: and round. You're like, I'm trying to like wrestle with 325 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: a trash bag full of jello here. They didn't even 326 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: look at the body. I don't have a dog in it. 327 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: I don't have a dog in the fight. I want 328 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: the truth. But I know what I saw on that video. 329 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: You know what, Let's take a listen to more and 330 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: I compare the video to the autopsy. That's what's really important. 331 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: I know what I saw. The man was talking and 332 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: breathing until Shavin shoved his knee on Floyd's windpipe, and 333 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: then he died. That's what I know. Now you're throwing 334 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 1: a lot of medical terms, and you're throwing out DJ 335 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: and armed forces. I bet you didn't say. I was 336 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: going to ask you did the DJ and the Armed 337 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: forces actually do an autopsy? Because they did it? Did 338 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: they Maroney? Did they? No? They didn't, they didn't. I 339 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 1: don't even know why you're saying that to me. You 340 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: think then watching a video you just told me, I 341 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: can't believe the video. You just said that, and now 342 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 1: you're expecting me to go, yes, I didn't do There 343 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: was an objective source and everybody, everybody, the defense and 344 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: the prosecution, they all got Frontel wrong. Nobody understood anything. Nobody, 345 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 1: nobody knew anything right other than what they saw obsessive 346 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: use of force that was really well focused and debated 347 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: that that was the highlight. Everybody got the frontal wrong. Everybody, defense, prosecution, everybody. 348 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: You know what, Nancy, I'm gonna jump in here. I'm 349 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: gonna jump o let me. Let me jump in on 350 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: the use of for im. I'm a retired cop, so 351 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: I'm gonna seek on the for a second. The use 352 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: of force continuum was presented by the defense to actually 353 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: put a photograph of it up there, and it also 354 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: said that you must de escalate when you can clearly 355 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: defend or control with less force. When a person is 356 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: tantuffed in a prone position, that's the time to de escalate. 357 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: Any threat has been contained, and that's the point when 358 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: you reassess the situation, make sure that person is not 359 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: a medical or physical distress. And these points are driven 360 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: home from day one of the police Academy. This is 361 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: nothing new to any police officer. We know the use 362 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: of force continuum like the back of our hand, and 363 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: we use it every single call, every single day. And 364 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: guess what our best defense is communication, which is something 365 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: that was clearly lacking from the outset of the explaining 366 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: a force Karen. The fact that Chauvin had everybody wondering, 367 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: why does he have his hands in his pockets? That's 368 00:25:54,560 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: to increase the dawnward velocity on Floyd's neck. Ads. Yeah, 369 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: it seems like he has his thumb resting in his pocket, 370 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: and it was just this posture of not even caring 371 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: what was going on beneath him on the ground. And 372 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: that is going to speak volumes at video. You know, 373 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: they said there's bias in the video. I disagree. There 374 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: were multiple angles. When I photograph a crime scene, I 375 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: do it from multiple angles to eliminate bias. You had 376 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: bodycam footage, you had surveillance footage, you had cell phone footage. 377 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 1: There's multiple angles. So the whole bias thing is out 378 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: as well, all of it Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 379 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: how did the whole thing start? Take a list of 380 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: our friends at CBS Earlier the prosecution show newly released 381 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: security video a Floyd inside the Cuff Foods convenience store 382 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: less than two hours before his death. Nineteen year old 383 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: Christopher Mark worked at the store and had a brief 384 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: conversation with Floyd, but it kind of took him a 385 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: little long to get to what he was trying to say, 386 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: so whatever hear that he was high. Martin says Floyd 387 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: bought a pack of cigarettes with what appeared to be 388 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. I noticed that I had 389 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: a blue pigment, kind of how a one hundred dollars 390 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: bill will have. And I found that odd, so I 391 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: assumed that it was fading. Martin and his co workers 392 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 1: tried twice to get Floyd to speak with their manager. 393 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: The significance on that testimony and the video was to 394 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: suggest to the jury and maybe it was true that 395 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: George Floyd was acting as if he was high on something. 396 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 1: The question for the jury is the cause of death, 397 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 1: whether he was or it's not high, whether he had 398 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: or had not ingested drugs. Take a listen to this 399 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: Against CBS, the jury got to see the shocking police 400 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: bodycam video of officers putting George Floyd into a squad car. 401 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: The intense struggle continued on the other side of the vehicle, 402 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: Floyd eventually forced to the ground. Charles McMillan witnessed it all. 403 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: The sixty one year old broke down as he relived 404 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: the moment in court. McMillan had confronted Chauvin about his actions, 405 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: and for the first time, we're hearing Chauvin's initial reaction 406 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: to what had just happened, trying to control of Scotland 407 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: because it's a sizeable died. Yeah, it's probably on something. 408 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: You're hearing what was shown in the courtroom, and you're 409 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: hearing about the struggle officers had trying to get Floyd 410 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: into the back of the car. But this is what 411 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: a paramedic Seth Bravendeer says in court. Listen dramatic never 412 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: before seen video of the ambulance team arriving to save 413 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: George Floyd's life. Paramedics Seth Bravendeer says, the first thing 414 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: he saw was multiple officers still on top of Floyds. 415 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: From what I could see where I was at, I 416 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: didn't I didn't see any breathing or movement or anything 417 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: like that. Bravendeer makes a hand gesture and officer Derek 418 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: Chauvin telling him to move as his partner, paramedic Derek Smith, 419 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: check Floyd's pulse straight out to Jim Elliott, veteran trial 420 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: lawyer joining us from Butlersnow dot Com. When you hear 421 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: the paramedics say that George Floyd was already not moving 422 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: and that there were quote multiple officers on top of 423 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: him and the paramedic had to tell Chauvin to get 424 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: off Floyd. What does that say to you? Says to me, 425 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: A level of indifference that I don't really understand. I mean, 426 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: how are you there on top of everything and had 427 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: that result? And disastounding really and from a legal from 428 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: a legal standpoint, Jim Elliott, as Karen Smith was just 429 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: telling us a former police officer, Yes, cops have to 430 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: subdue and stop purps all the time because they're bad guys. 431 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: But once they're subdued, that's supposed to stop. Even the 432 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: paramedics says Floyd was not moving and there were multiple 433 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: guys on top of him. Obviously that goes beyond typical 434 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: police force. Yes, certainly, I mean that place. Again, there 435 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: was no charge of accessive force, but that's certainly the 436 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: mindset everybody has, and that's exactly what I think everyone 437 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: will sue. Take a listen to our friends at CBS. 438 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: The prosecution played police body camp video. Floyd said I 439 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: can't breathe twenty seven times. They were his final words. 440 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: George Floyd begged until he could speak no more, and 441 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: the defendant continued this assault beyond the point that he 442 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: had a pulse. Slisher pointed to seven expert witnesses, most 443 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: of them fellow officers, all testifying that Chauvin used unreasonable force. 444 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: Paid to doctor William Moroney, the chief medical Examiner Bay County, Michigan, 445 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: author of American Narcan on Amazon created mobile opioid treatment center. 446 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: He's done thousands of autopsies, Doctor Moroney. The man says 447 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: I can't breathe twenty seven times. But you don't see 448 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: that there was asphyxiation. The man is saying I can't breathe. 449 00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: There's an excessive use of force, and asphyxiation had to 450 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: be defined medically in the autopsy. I agree that is 451 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: heart stopped. I agree, and I agree that that excessive 452 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: use of force was abusive at outside of political and 453 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: police training and education. But we ask people like me 454 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: what the contribution is of drugs and substance use disorder, 455 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: and it is part of a contributing factor. Excessive use 456 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: is the focus of mister Floyd not tolerating his restraint. 457 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: When you say, you mean a knee on his windpipe 458 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: for almost three men restraining him and on his wig position. 459 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: Because when I say the video, I see Chauvin on 460 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: his windpipe. I know Floyd is saying I can't breathe, 461 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: but you still want about there is no damage in 462 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: the neck, and I'm here just to reflect the autopsy. 463 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: I'm here just to reflect the medical science. There's no 464 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: broken hyoid bones, there's no bruised muscles. We can say 465 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: that the video shows excessive force and the autopsy doesn't. 466 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: And that's not that we disagree. I'm just reflecting what's 467 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: in the autopsy. Well, then why is it three other 468 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: medical examiners say contrary to what you're saying. You know what, 469 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: take a listen to what the defense claims are at trial. 470 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: Listen to this. Defense attorney Eric Nelson argued that Jersey 471 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: to examine what happened before the nine minutes and twenty 472 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: nine seconds. He said, Chauvin did what any reasonable officer 473 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: would after seeing Floyd's struggle with other officers. The amount 474 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: of that was being used by officers king in Land 475 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: was insufficient to overpower mister Floyd's resistance to getting into 476 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: the car. He played video showing how the struggle continued 477 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: when Chauvin got involved. And there is more. Take a 478 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: listen to what the defense argued. Nelson also argued that 479 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: Floyd's heart disease, as long as his use of fetnel 480 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 1: and methan phetamine significantly contributed to his death. He even 481 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 1: cited the County Medical Examiner's findings, so doctor Baker's conclusions 482 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:40,399 Speaker 1: and mister Floyd's arteriosclerotic and hypertensive disease played a role 483 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: in the death. During rebuttal, Prosecutor Jerry Blackwell talked about 484 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: the forty sixth witness common sense. You were told that 485 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: mister Floyd died because his heart was to be the 486 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 1: reason George Floyd is dead. It is because missus Chauvin's 487 00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: heart was too small. We waite as justice and falls. 488 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye friend, m