WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - December 17th, 2021 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:05.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week Inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:09.200 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 global business, finance and tech news. As it happened. Bloomberg 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:16.759 Business Week with Carol Messier and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:21.280 Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Hi, everyone, Welcome to the weekend 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.440 edition of Bloomberg Business Week. This past week highlighted by 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:28.920 the fomc's final meeting of Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:32.400 calling inflation the biggest threat to America's economic recovery, and 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:34.880 the Central Bank signaling a series of interest rate hikes 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:37.239 on the horizon, the latest market twist, and what our 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.880 Business Week team is dubbing investing's wildest year ever. That's 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:42.760 the subject of our cover story, which we'll get to 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.040 in just a moment, And ahead on the broadcast, we're 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:47.400 gonna sit down with Raj Rajer Rottenham. He once ran 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.280 a seven billion dollar hedge fund before receiving the longest 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.639 prison sens ever handed out for insider trading. Now he's 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:55.880 defending his actions that put him behind bars in a 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.240 new book, Uneven Justice. The plot to sink Gallia plus 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:01.240 the head of the World Valent Tourism Council on what 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:05.360 the Akron variant means for a multi trillion dollar industry. 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:07.399 All of that to come. We begin with our cover 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:10.440 story this week, a takeover in the finance section of 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:12.840 the magazine. It's a detailed look at a year that's 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:17.920 market headlines dominated by retail traders, meme stocks, cryptocurrency SPACs. 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:21.200 We got some celebrities in there as well, Delvis breakdown 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.679 one filled with fear, fascination, and greed. We turned to 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:28.479 Bloomberg Market senior editor Mike Reagan and Personal Finance reporter 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:30.920 Mr Lena got Fapolu. Alright, Mike, let's start with you. 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:33.360 How do we make sense of the convergence of popular 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:35.880 culture and modern finance. I gotta say, it feels like 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:37.559 it was a year like no other. Yeah, it really 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:39.800 was a unique year, A crazy year. I guess that's 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:45.080 why they got me involved. A good fit, right, But 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:48.000 you know, I do think that the fascinating thing is 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.560 how investing, especially in sort of the crypto and the 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:55.640 real speculative parts of the stock market, sort of overtook 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.240 pop culture to some degree this year. I mean, there's 0:01:58.240 --> 0:01:59.920 a lot of things that kind of led up to that. 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.280 I think the elimination of commissions at the online brokerages 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.960 a couple of years ago played a part of the role. Obviously, 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:10.320 this kind of helicopter money coming from the government and 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:14.040 people being forced to save rather than spend gave people 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.119 a lot of free cash. But to me, the really 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.799 fascinating thing is, you know, look that we basically forced 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:22.440 everyone to go home and isolate themselves. And you'd think, well, 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:24.600 what would that cause people to do. You'd think you 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.160 would cause them to kind of become loners and and 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:31.160 sort of self reflective. But instead, all these online communities 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:34.760 really just grew and grew and grew and started thriving. 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:36.960 So to me, I think when you invest now you 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.560 have to sort of consider this as a fundamental driver 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.400 of investing is how powerful are the communities that are 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:45.480 backing some of this assets, you know, whether it be 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.919 a MC a cult stock stock like that, or something 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:52.200 like shiba, you know, or doge coin. If you get 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.120 enough people tweeting about it and posting on Reddit about 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.600 it and telling their friends about it, that fundamental value 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.639 of that community suddenly is what it's the price of 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:02.680 the asset one thing that I find so fascinating about 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:04.560 this is it's it's it's not just you know, the 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.240 retail traders, the people who are new to this, who 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:09.520 entered the market this year, that are that are having 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.120 an impact. Mr Lanny Gofapulu, come on in here, because 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:14.720 you've spent a good part of the past year talking 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:18.040 to retail investors and talking to people who perhaps even 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.440 left careers on Wall Street to pursue the n f 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:22.640 T boom. Tell us about one of these folks. You 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:26.720 talked to, Sergio Silva, who worked at Barclay's in equity 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.839 sales before he left to get into crypto. Yeah, he's 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.000 just one of the many examples of people that you know, 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.840 we've spoken to this year, and when Business came to 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.040 me and asked me to find some voices to sort 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:42.760 of portray what Mike explained earlier has happened this year. 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.560 Really it was just a plethora of folks. There are 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:49.280 so many stories out there of people who have come 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.200 in contact with all of these obscure financial vehicles that 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:54.960 came into play this year. In Sergio is just one 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:58.480 example of the many folks who chose to leave their 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:02.520 traditional Wall streets you know, banking jobs and turn to 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:07.160 you know, ride this this this wave um of of 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.480 n f t s of crypto full time. And so 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:15.520 Sergio was basically sitting at home during the pandemic and 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:21.120 he was, you know, in all these Twitter discord telegram 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:25.080 chats of people talking. He stumbled upon a crypto punk 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:28.080 project and he decided to buy one. And for those 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.120 who don't know what crypto punks are, it's these small, 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.840 pixelated uh n f t s that are human like 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.920 um pixelated characters, and they are used as digital avatars 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.320 for anyone who you know, spend a lot of time online. 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:46.160 He bought one of those very very you know, cheap 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:48.560 worth you know, a couple of hundred dollars, and the 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.720 value of those crypto punks now is, you know, the 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.760 cheapest one is around three hundred thousand dollars. And so 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.360 after that, for him, it was, you know, off to 0:04:57.400 --> 0:04:59.920 the races. But Mike, I think about like traditional Wall 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.760 to who are like you know, puffing and huffing and whatever, 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:04.640 you know, to catch up with like this new wave 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:06.680 of investing, they've got to be watching. I mean, I 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.160 think about the Wall Street ros are like, wait, I 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.320 don't get it, but I gotta get in. Yeah, absolutely, 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.560 And there's been this evolution of thought. You know. Originally, 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:16.400 I think most of Wall Street sort of rolled their 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.600 eyes at the notion of crypto and thought it was 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:23.160 a scam and thought Google. And he's the best example. 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.400 You follow his comments through the years, and the next 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.520 thing he's like, all right, well, if our clients want 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:30.240 to trade it, will trade it, you know. And and 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:33.280 Wall Street has sort of been pulled along by this movement. 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.440 And to me, I think, you know, there's something to 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:40.520 be said about knowing, being honest with yourself and knowing 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.000 what you don't know about the future. And it's it's 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:45.679 easy to roll your eye at something like a crypto 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:47.719 punk or an f T, but when you start to 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.040 think about what's possible in the n f T space. 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.000 The one example I always give is this thing called 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.120 z racing. And I this isn't in the story, but 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:56.680 you know there are n f T s that are 0:05:56.680 --> 0:06:00.520 basically digital thoroughbred race horses, right, so you can raise 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:04.159 them against each other, you can breathe them, there's prize money, 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:07.240 you put up stakes, so you know, an n f 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.640 T isn't just a jpeg of a funny picture. There's 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.440 there's a lot that can be packaged into an R 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:15.040 and I think where that's really going, that smart contract 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:18.279 idea of it. So the crypto punks that the board apes, 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:20.000 you know, I think they they're kind of the ground 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.280 floor and people thinking, well, maybe this is sort of 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.120 will be sort of the nostalgia of the future where 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.360 people realize the value of n f T s and 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.320 and you know, look back at these as sort of 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.840 the collector's item of this beginning of this movement. Well, 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.360 big thank you to Mr Lanna you got Fapulu. She's 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.719 our personal finance reporter here at Bloomberg News. Also thanks 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:41.279 to Bloomberg Market Senior editor Michael Reagan. They worked on 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.000 this week's cover story, a finance section takeover. Check it 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:45.919 out at Bloomberg dot com on the terminal and of 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:49.440 course in Business Week magazine. Coming up next, which region 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:51.320 of the globe will be the first to see business 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:54.320 travel return and force. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week, 0:06:54.520 --> 0:07:05.919 This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:10.200 Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stenovik from Bloomberg Radio. 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.480 Shares of hotels restaurants and leisure stocks. We know they 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:17.800 have bounced around this year. Their volatility often dependent on 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:20.240 the pandemic headlines at any given day. Tim Well, to 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.400 give us a global snapshot of the travel and tourism industry, 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.320 we turned to Julia Simpson. She's President and CEO of 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.400 the World Travel and Tourism Council. It's a volunteer organization 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:31.800 of business leaders and companies. It's actually chaired by someone 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.640 who we've spoken to in the past, Carnival CEO Arnold Donald. Yeah, 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:38.240 we have indeed now Julia she joined us from London, 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.360 where the w TTC is based, just as we were 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.760 beginning to digest the potential impact of the omicron variant 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:48.240 on a sector, as we said, already ravaged by COVID. 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:51.960 Probably while global GDP went down maybe about five point 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:55.120 four percent in travel and tourism, we were hit by 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:59.200 nearly fifty percent. So an industry that was worth nine 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:03.320 trillion as globally was cut down to about four point 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.960 six billion. That's last year. Now, we do a lot 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:11.320 of researcher economic research with Oxford Economics, and we've been 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.280 charting where this might go to. And I'm going to 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:18.280 give you some usig again in a minute, but pre 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:23.600 the latest strain of covid um, we were looking at 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.440 getting back to maybe globally eighty five percent eighty percent 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:31.200 recovery if there aren't further restrictions by the end of 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:36.000 twenty twenty two. UM. In the US, actually the picture 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:40.120 is looking a bit brighter UM. TIM. The the actual 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.800 value of travel and tourism to the US pre the pandemic, 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:48.720 taking twenty nineteen as a baseline, was about one point 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:53.400 eight billion dollars. You took slightly less of a hit 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:58.480 at around minds forty one in twenty that's mostly because 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.400 of the strength of your domestic traveling to is a market, 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.000 and so you sort of got fled down to about 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:08.079 one point one billion dollars. Now, the good news is 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.680 UM this year you're expected to grow slightly ahead of 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:17.000 the global picture by about thirty six percent, So that's 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:20.400 slightly better. And then if things were to continue and 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.040 this I think there's big messages for governments here, but 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:26.880 if things were to continue benignly or in the way 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.640 we're seeing them now, you could get back to actually 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:35.920 in a good time exceed your pre pandemic g d 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:39.360 P well you do. That's the kind of numbers if 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.400 you like, right, Julia, And you do think about the 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:44.960 pent up demand because you know, people can't can't retake 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:47.120 the trips that they missed during the pandemic, but they 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.920 can certainly go out and take a talent trims once 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:53.520 they feel confident about moving forward. You mentioned government. I mean, 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:57.120 the w TTC works with governments to raise issues and 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:59.840 some of the industry's concerns when it comes to travel. 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:03.640 And these are what are or what is the top 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:05.840 one or two concerns of the industry right now that 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:09.679 you all are bringing to global government officials. Yeah, exactly, 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.680 we've been raising the government's globally. First of all, a 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:18.719 total lack of international coordination surrounding travel within the pandemic. 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:22.840 You understand, when a pandemic hits the country, governments naturally 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.080 look inwards. They're worried about their own citizens. This is 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.320 completely natural and normal. But as we sort of look 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.600 up above the parapet and reach hands across the ocean, again, 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:37.360 the severe lack of international coordination in terms of, you know, 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.840 what is accepted and what the rules are. So that's 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.360 one problem. Another problem is we see these severe travel 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.640 restrictions suddenly coming down. So I'll give you a really 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:50.520 good example. When the new variant was identified in South Africa, 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:55.600 a lot of countries immediately left to barring anybody from 0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:00.040 certain countries in the southern parts of Africa coming to 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.000 Europe and coming to other parts of the world. But 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:07.120 the irony is that the very own World Health Organization 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.440 w h O as we call it, um they were saying, yeah, 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:12.600 it was a variant of concern, but they said that 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:18.200 closing Frances has absolutely no impact and they shouldn't be 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.440 doing it, and the economic costs of livelihoods and people 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.640 can actually far outstrip the impact of the pandemics. So 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:30.520 lack of coordination, severe travel restrictions. And also obviously the 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:34.000 golden the golden bullet he or the silver bullet is 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:37.160 the vaccination levels. You know, sooner we can get the 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:41.680 world vaccinated, can all get vaccinated? That is our greatest 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:46.600 um uh, you know, prevention to this illness. So yeah, 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:48.680 just in about a minute and a half, what is 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:52.160 going on in Larding because we all were watching the 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.160 UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson his press conference yesterday and 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:58.960 covid takening of restrictions once again in the UK mandating masks, 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.320 encouraging homeworking. Um, what are you hearing from your members 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:06.800 of your community about that specifically and London specifically, because 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:11.160 I know you're concerned about those those travel restrictions. Yes. Absolutely, 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:13.480 the good news for travel and tourism is there haven't 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:18.120 been any further restrictions are emanating from the UK government. 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:20.880 So I think they've recognized what I was saying earlier 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:26.240 that once variant of this of COVID is actually in 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.839 your community, it's absolutely pointless trying to put in front. 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.880 Is so good news for travel and tourism. No, no 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:36.280 further restrictions there, which is great. Um. I think what 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.800 they want to do is to try and restrict a 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.320 little bit gatherings of people. And they're saying that you 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.200 can go to work if you you have to be 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:46.959 there in person, but if you can find an alternative 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:49.680 and work from home. They're just saying for a period 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.800 because as we know that the latest variants seems to 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:58.320 be slightly more infectious and travel faster. Um, so they're 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.280 just being cautious. I think it's more cautious and dramatic, 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.640 if I'm completely honest, because life is still carrying on 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.920 pretty normally. You know, I can get on the Metro, 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:10.959 the underground, tubes and trains. Do people wear masks on 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:14.080 the underground, you wear masks, So that's what you do 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.920 on public, on any kind of transport, you wear a mark. Well, 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:20.080 if you go into a shop, football stadiums, in fact, 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:21.880 I'm going to see you. Well we call it soccer 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.679 here my soccer. I'm going to a soccer matcher this 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.960 weekend and I will be able to join you know 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:30.760 a lot of tens of thousands of people, but I'd 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:32.960 be wearing a mask, and I'm probably going to be 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:38.280 for my COVID vaccination certificate. Julia. You before you had 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:42.000 this role, you were at i A g Or International 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.000 Airlines Group. It's the parent company of British Airways, Iberia 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.240 air Linguists Welling. And it was just a few months 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:49.960 ago that you that you left that company. And I 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.040 want you to take us back to March when the 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.800 world fell apart because of COVID, but also international travel 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.200 in domestic travel just dried up. Take us back to 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.120 what it was like to be at a large airline. Yeah, 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.160 well it was. It was pretty horrific really to be 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.880 honest with you, because we actually saw all business almost 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.680 come to a stand still. And I think aviation is 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.760 very adaptable and it's very good at dealing with crisis. 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.920 I mean, it's obviously had the most tragic and horrendous 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.480 crisis of nine eleven, but then you know, we've had 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.800 financial crisis and we're really really resilient. And what I 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.320 thought was great about I a G is, you know, 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:30.200 we made sure that we had good, strong capital behind us. 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.440 And I'm not, you know, up to date with all 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:34.320 their numbers now, but I know that you know, when 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:38.680 I was there, there was ten billions UK sterling in 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.320 the bank, and we make sure that we were resilient 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.600 with stand That was Julia Simpson, President and CEO of 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.320 the World Travel and Tourism Council. Still at a Bloomberg 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:49.840 Business Week and insane look at what happens when a 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.680 hospital system is stretched beyond its limits. The ripple effects 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.600 of an under vaccinated population in America's heartland are detailed. Next, 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:07.360 this is Bloomberg broadcasting from the financial capital of the World, 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.960 Bloomberg eleven Frio in New York to Washington, d C. 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:15.880 Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one O six one to San Francisco, 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.400 Bloomberg nine sixty to the Country Sirius XM Chado one 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:22.640 nineteen and around the globe, the Bloomberg Business app and 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:28.200 Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Business Week. Business 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.640 Week has had many covers this year on a pandemic. 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.240 It's been incredible to coverage now. A story that caught 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:35.480 our attention this week was a Bloomberg big take. It 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:37.400 was also one of our most read stories on the 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:41.200 Bloomberg terminal throughout the week. It took us to Kentucky 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:45.800 and that state's hospital system, illustrating how unvaccinated Americans are 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:49.560 fueling the country's latest wave of COVID infections. Bloomberg News 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.720 US Healthcare Senior editor Drew Armstrong tells us it's pushing 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:56.360 some medical facilities past the brink. He visited three different 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:58.960 ones across the Bluegrass state during the summer as it 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.920 was coming off its biggest surge in cases, the Delta variant. 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.520 He saw some really startling things. Drew joined us in 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:06.320 studio to give us a sense of how bad it 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:10.320 can get when areas with fewer healthcare resources and low 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:14.000 inoculation rates get bombarded by the virus. What you see is, 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.520 you know, first of all, they still have COVID patients 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:18.880 who are in the hospital there. And and these people 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.800 are very, very sick. I mean, you know, Um, they 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:25.120 had a patient code, which means either they're harder the 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:28.080 long stopped working. Um while I was there finishing open 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:29.840 interview with one of the doctors, she went sprinting down 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.480 the hall to take care of her patient. Um. You 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.120 see these people and how ill they are. I mean, 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.200 I you know, set outside a room, one of the 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.600 isolation rooms, and watch demand on a high flow oxygen 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:45.080 mask and he is, you know, gasping for breath into 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:47.400 this thing. Um, you know, but he's taking these little 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:50.200 gulps of air. And and there's no way other to 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:52.760 say it is that it looks like this person is 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.240 suffocating to death right in front of your eyes. And 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:57.120 and that is what this disease does. And he saw 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.760 patients on ventilators, patients on heartlong bypass Machi means it 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.479 is really horrific. And then outside the hospital it's like 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:08.080 nothing's ever happened. I got I have a million questions. 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.040 First of all, it reminds us that, you know, we're 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.280 far from being over this pandemic, right, and it still 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:16.160 impacts these people largely in vaccinated people. Yeah, almost all 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.480 of them are um. I mean, you know, it was 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.520 interesting to talk to the caregivers in this case because 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:23.680 they said the first wave that they dealt with pretty 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.000 much everybody in the hospital old, frail, exactly the people 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.520 you would think would be part hit virus. Yeah, this 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:31.920 is over the win. This is the last winter about 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.479 a year ago when when the whole yeah, exactly pre 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:39.200 vaccine vulnerable population. This time around, they said, these are 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:43.400 the young people thirties, forties, fifties, you know, type of 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.600 relatively healthy people, typical Americans you'd see walking around there 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.200 in the Walmart or the Kroger. And those were the 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.800 people that were in the hospital this time. And because 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.719 that's really who the unvaccinated are in Kentucky as well. 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:57.359 I mean, you look at the vaccination rates. You have 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.360 a county, let's say it as a vaccination rate, it's 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.760 really a lie because that's almost all the older population. 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.199 The younger groups are very very unvaccinated there. When I 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.800 was reading this piece, drew one big takeaway from me 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:13.680 was what happens to a health system when it is overwhelmed. 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.240 You write about a policy that has only been invoked 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.000 a few times at one of the hospitals where they 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.320 essentially tell an incoming ambulance that, hey, we don't have 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:26.600 any room here for your patient. You have to take 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.760 this patient somewhere else. Talk a little bit about the 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:31.960 toll this takes on healthcare workers that hold this takes 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.720 on on hospitals, and how somebody who may have a 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.760 heart attack, who may have a stroke, something completely unrelated 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.080 to COVID might actually die as a result of a 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:43.800 hospital being overwhelmed from COVID patients who potentially are't vaccinated. Yeah, 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:45.480 just to set this up, I mean, I think it's 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:49.120 important to remember that, you know, US healthcare and hospitals 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:50.840 in particular, it's not like they have a ton of 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:54.000 excess capacity. I mean, these are businesses, whether they're nonprofits 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:55.920 or for profits, I mean, these are businesses. They run 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:58.280 pretty lean, and we run an assumption that if we 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:00.200 walk into a hospital, we're gonna be taking care and 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.119 you typically will be I mean, you know, but they 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:05.919 but they do that by kind of very carefully running 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.080 it around, you know, eighty or nine percent capacity all 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.959 the time. There is not a lot of extra room. 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.880 The system is built for a disaster, but it's built 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:18.080 for a disaster like a chemical plant explosion or a 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:20.720 big crash on the interstate where it's you know, people 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.840 come in, they get hurt, and they're out. And it's 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.119 also built for patients who come in the hospital and 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:29.520 then leave the hospital. And that's really critical because you know, 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.320 a patient who get sick and comes into the su 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:34.600 typically in there for you know, a few days. These 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:38.040 COVID patients sit in these beds for weeks, and so 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:41.080 you know, you have hospitals do have an option when 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.119 things are getting really bad as to mention they go 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:45.560 they do what's called going on divert sending a message 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:47.359 to all the local ambulances. He don't come here, go 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.199 to the hospital thirty minutes down the road, now, you know. 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:51.840 And and that's a case where d e R is 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:53.760 so backed up there saying we can't take anybody, gotta 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:55.919 we gotta hit pause for a few hours. Now. What 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:59.640 happens though, when your e R is overwhelmed with COVID patients, 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.200 e er down the road is overul with COVID patients. 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:03.879 They are down the road from that is overworld with 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.680 COVID patients, because that's what happened there, and they went 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.240 on you know, this is a hospital in London, Kentucky's 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.240 about seventy five miles south of Lexington. They serve a 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.440 lot of Appalachian counties, and they had gone on diverts 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.159 the third or fourth time that they'd gone on divert 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:19.280 in August. Before that, twenty years, they only got to 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:21.040 divert twice. Once it was a bomb throughout the other 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:24.280 time it's a tornado. And they were on DIVERT once 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.679 again because they had thirty people backed up in the 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:28.960 waiting room and they had another you know, twenty or 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.680 thirty people in the yard waiting for beds upstairs who 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:34.200 needed to be admitted. They went to divert and then 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:36.680 they did it for two hours, and they looked around 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:38.280 the rest of the region. They said, all the hospitals 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.399 around us starting divert as well because they're overwhelmed with 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.400 quote patients. That was Bloomberg News US Healthcare Senior editor 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:47.159 Drew Arms draw some graphic details as America continues to 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.920 deal with the latest rise in COVID cases. We're listening 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.040 to Bloomberg Business Week coming up next, we turn our 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:54.520 attention to a success story born out of the nation's 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:57.240 ongoing health crisis and the pandemic fixes that made a 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:00.399 beloved New York restaurant more profitable than ever. It's a 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.000 tale of small business triumph. We'll get that on the 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:15.560 other side. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.400 Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovik 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:23.399 from Bloomberg Radio. It has not been easy running a 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.720 restaurant during the pandemic. We know that, and yet one 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:29.439 dining establishment on New York City's Lower East Side is 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.800 not only surviving COVID, Tim, it's becoming more profitable than ever. 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:36.240 Here with that story is Joshua Breustein Technology editor at 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:38.520 a Business Week. He's got a feature in this week's 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.880 issue of the magazine about the popular vegetable only eatery 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.720 Dirt Candy. They're also very pleased to have the restaurant's 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.640 owner and chef, Amanda Cohen with us as well. So Josh, 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:49.200 let's get it off with you. How did you discover 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:51.800 dirt Candy and why did you write this piece? I'm 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:53.800 just curious about like the pitch to Joe Weber the 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:58.919 technology or exactly well, I'm I'm a technology editor but 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.119 also New Yorker, and I was really interested, as the 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.760 pandemic looked like it was waning this spring, to see 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:07.800 how restaurants would, after all they had been through, kind 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.520 of get back on track. UM. I'm a vegetarian, so 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.879 dirt Candy was very much on my radar screen. And 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:18.359 I was also interested in talking to Amanda about UM 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:22.440 about her experiences, because she's been out in the forefront 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:26.960 talking about labor issues, UM in the industry, UM and 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:29.480 kind of pushing the business model in various ways. And 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:32.120 so I thought that, you know, she'd have some really 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:36.520 interesting things to say about sort of reshaping a restaurant 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:39.040 at this interesting time. And also I could you know, 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:41.159 go there and get to eat some good foods. Say 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:43.240 it was this really just about getting some really great meals. 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:45.920 Let's bring amand in. I thought a good place to 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:48.359 start would be, you know, when we first UM, when 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:50.399 we first started talking, you you know, you were just 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:53.920 coming out of what seemed to be, you know, one 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:56.920 stage and into the next one. And over the last 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:00.480 couple of months, it seems like UM thing has worked 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:03.399 out maybe surprisingly well for you in certain ways, And 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:05.720 I'm wondering if you could talk about just the factors 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:08.720 that went into where you find yourself now and and 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:11.840 how things ended up being maybe better than expected and 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:15.639 also continue to be a challenge. Yeah. I mean, I 0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:17.880 had no idea that this is where I was gonna 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:23.159 end up. Um, you know, I started, Uh, I don't know, 0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:28.320 part five my pandemic experience, with the idea that we 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:31.119 had to change the restaurant. We weren't going to survive, 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:35.200 and we were, we were surviving pre pandemics, but always 0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:36.639 on the edge. And I had sort of made a 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:39.760 promise to myself and my staff that we were gonna 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:42.159 start trying to figure out how to actually run the 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:45.359 restaurant like a business and a passion project that was 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:49.399 always petering on the edge. And uh, we changed how 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:52.359 we paid our staff, we changed our pricing, we changed 0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:56.160 the culture of the restaurant, and in a huge surprise, 0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:59.120 I think that all of us we are still here 0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:02.320 and we are actually doing really well. It's the first 0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:04.639 time in my thirteen years of running this restaurant, but 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:07.119 I actually feel like I'm running a business. The changes 0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:10.040 that you've made They're not the conventional ones that we 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:13.800 see with a lot of restaurants that have survived and 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:15.639 thrived during the pandemic. It's not like you went all 0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:19.439 in on delivery or you know, everyone's eating outside, right, 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:21.880 these are these are changes that aren't conventional. I think 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:26.520 we went against the wisdom and breathe their prices and um, 0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:32.000 we really sorted double down on changing how we involved 0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:33.879 our staff in the restaurant and how we paid them. 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:36.840 And for a restaurant my size, we now offer health 0:24:36.840 --> 0:24:39.920 insurance and all kinds of extra funest benefits like extra 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:45.320 sixt days and extra um holidays. And because of that, 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:48.840 unlike most restaurants, we don't see this labor shortage in 0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:51.560 the restaurants that we aren't having a problem getting staff, 0:24:51.680 --> 0:24:54.240 and we're also not getting having a problem getting customers. 0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:56.439 Which is probably the biggest surprise of all is that 0:24:56.800 --> 0:25:00.840 customers have really embraced these changes. Well, that's interesting too, 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:03.120 and I'm curious, like, what was the kind of feedback 0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:07.480 you were getting from your workers, from your customers, you know, 0:25:07.600 --> 0:25:10.800 in terms of helping you shape the way to move 0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:14.800 forward during this pandemic. Well, I think what we realized 0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:18.520 during the last year and a half eighteen months with that, 0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:21.399 customers actually liked us, but also they really wanted to 0:25:21.440 --> 0:25:26.120 support restaurants, and um, you know, the last year, everybody 0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:28.200 learns a lot more about restaurants. There were tons of 0:25:28.280 --> 0:25:32.240 articles and news pieces and um, you saw like sort 0:25:32.280 --> 0:25:35.280 of chefs and restaurant turns and the news constantly talk 0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:36.879 to me about what it meant to run a restaurant 0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:38.760 and how much it costs. And I think from what 0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:42.480 that fourth wall of restaurants got broken down a little, uh, 0:25:42.520 --> 0:25:46.320 and so customers were I think customers sort of for 0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:49.800 the first time, really wanted to spend their money somewhere 0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:52.600 where it can do it can make a difference, and 0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:54.800 it's not just about the food. But they were there 0:25:54.800 --> 0:25:57.760 to really support the people who worked in the restaurant 0:25:57.760 --> 0:26:00.520 and people who ran the restaurant. And great pandemic. We 0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:05.439 were often called overpriced. We're an expensive vegetarian restaurant, and 0:26:05.480 --> 0:26:08.040 now we're called expensive, And to me, that's this huge 0:26:08.080 --> 0:26:10.359 difference of how sort of guests are looking at us 0:26:10.400 --> 0:26:13.480 and they want to spend that money at our restaurant. 0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:16.520 We are busier than we have ever been. Amanda, you 0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:19.000 said that you haven't had trouble with the labor shortages 0:26:19.040 --> 0:26:21.879 we've heard about, um, you know throughout the restaurant industry 0:26:21.880 --> 0:26:26.000 and beyond. I was interested in when you said, you know, 0:26:26.119 --> 0:26:29.960 obviously you you laid off basically your entire staff at 0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:32.520 the beginning of the pandemic and then came back to 0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:34.920 all of them and said, you know, we're gonna offer 0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:36.320 you a lot more money. We're going to offer you 0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:38.720 the chance to find a health insurance um. But it 0:26:38.760 --> 0:26:41.760 wasn't actually them who came back to staff the restaurant, right, Like, 0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:44.880 basically your previous staff just kind of disappeared to the winds. 0:26:44.920 --> 0:26:46.480 Can you talk about that a little bit? So I 0:26:46.520 --> 0:26:49.800 was fortunate enough to keep my managers on, and if 0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:52.040 I hadn't been able to keep them on, I think 0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:54.199 we would have closed because I couldn't even really reopen 0:26:54.240 --> 0:26:58.119 this restaurant from scratch. Did everybody the twenty nine others 0:26:58.160 --> 0:27:01.520 who I laid off, they they did sort of decide 0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:03.679 to either leave the restaurant industry or a lot of 0:27:03.680 --> 0:27:06.840 them moved home. They were quite young. Um, we've always 0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:11.040 had a pretty young staff, and this time around we 0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:16.240 did hire again very young and almost three workers. But 0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:19.439 who were really interested in sort of working at a 0:27:19.480 --> 0:27:21.840 place so that didn't feel just like a job, that 0:27:21.920 --> 0:27:26.640 felt that they could contribute something more than just their 0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:29.040 labor too, And that is their voice and how we 0:27:29.119 --> 0:27:33.320 run the restaurant. Your experience. Is it changing? You're thinking 0:27:33.359 --> 0:27:37.760 about what really makes a profitable restaurant? Um, maybe for 0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:41.040 the future, do we have to kind of readjust are 0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:44.480 thinking about what works really in the restaurant industry. I 0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:46.639 think we do, and I think if restaurants are going 0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:50.240 to survive, UM, we all have to sort of start 0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:52.880 contributing a lot more to them. They can't be looked 0:27:52.880 --> 0:27:56.800 at it just these disposable places, um that are always 0:27:56.800 --> 0:27:58.800 going to be there, because we learned throughout the pandemic 0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:02.320 they're not. And it you know, so many restaurants closed, 0:28:02.320 --> 0:28:05.359 so many people lost their life savings with their restaurants. 0:28:05.400 --> 0:28:08.720 And the only way that this industry can go forward. 0:28:08.760 --> 0:28:11.199 And you know, pre pandemic, we talked about it as 0:28:11.200 --> 0:28:14.320 an industry certainly, you know, restaurants did, but it wasn't 0:28:14.359 --> 0:28:17.680 really It was very disjointed. And the pandemic really brought 0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:20.520 restaurant together. And I think everybody sort of read thinking 0:28:20.960 --> 0:28:23.159 what it means to run a restaurant, how to be 0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:26.760 more financially stable for everybody. And that's a two way 0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:30.639 conversation for maybe a three way conversation between you, your employees, 0:28:30.960 --> 0:28:34.479 and your customers, because customers have to buy into this 0:28:34.560 --> 0:28:39.480 idea that restaurants aren't disposable. They you can't. They have 0:28:39.560 --> 0:28:42.640 to start paying more for the ability to eat out 0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:46.480 in restaurants and on all restaurants. UM, I think there's like, uh, 0:28:46.640 --> 0:28:49.760 certainly like food desserts where restaurants should be cheap and uh, 0:28:49.920 --> 0:28:51.760 you should be able to always have access to food, 0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:53.920 but like a restaurant like mine, which I considered more 0:28:53.920 --> 0:28:56.480 of a luxury, uh, you have to be willing to 0:28:56.480 --> 0:28:59.040 pay for it. Even before the pandemic, you were doing 0:28:59.040 --> 0:29:04.280 supplemental work to make ends meet and because the restaurant 0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:07.480 wasn't actually doing that. And I'm wondering if even in 0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:09.640 the story he talks about you're you're working on a 0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:12.600 menu for for a college as as some consulting work. 0:29:12.600 --> 0:29:15.480 I'm wondering, if you envision moving forward with this new model, 0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:17.680 you can make dirt candy totally sustainable and you can 0:29:17.760 --> 0:29:21.200 drop that consulting work. Well, I could or why would 0:29:21.200 --> 0:29:27.080 I want to. I don't know. You sound busy, but yeah, 0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:31.000 I actually think that. UM, certainly, for the next couple 0:29:31.040 --> 0:29:34.200 of years, I don't have to put in any extra 0:29:34.240 --> 0:29:37.960 money to the restaurant. It is fully sustainable on its own. 0:29:38.000 --> 0:29:41.360 You know, pre pandemics, we were probably maybe if we 0:29:41.360 --> 0:29:43.880 were lucky, at like a one percent margin or zero 0:29:43.960 --> 0:29:47.200 percent profits, maybe sometimes negative profits. We always sort of 0:29:47.240 --> 0:29:48.720 had enough money in the bank and I was always 0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:50.360 able to put enough in to make sure that we 0:29:50.360 --> 0:29:53.720 were able to survive. But right now we're working in 0:29:53.840 --> 0:29:57.160 around five to seven percent in our profit margin, which 0:29:57.400 --> 0:30:00.600 is huge. It's such a difference. So you read your prices, 0:30:00.640 --> 0:30:04.600 but you also raised wages and there were other things 0:30:04.600 --> 0:30:06.840 that you managed to figure out that sort of tinkered 0:30:06.880 --> 0:30:09.760 with your formula and made you more profitable. UM. Can 0:30:09.800 --> 0:30:11.920 you talk a little bit more about those things, Amanda, 0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:14.120 and what other ways you were able to, you know, 0:30:14.200 --> 0:30:17.880 squeeze more out of out of the business. We started 0:30:17.880 --> 0:30:19.880 squeezing a lot more out of the business as as 0:30:19.920 --> 0:30:22.840 opposed to our employees. And the number one factor that 0:30:22.920 --> 0:30:29.240 I changed was our our food costs. So before the 0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:33.040 year and a half ago free pandemic, UM, we were 0:30:33.080 --> 0:30:37.920 probably hovering around, which actually in the restaurant industry isn't bad. 0:30:38.000 --> 0:30:43.920 And your costs were on food. Yeah, um, and now 0:30:44.320 --> 0:30:48.920 we're dying around, which is that that's where we're making 0:30:48.920 --> 0:30:51.640 our money. That's the huge savings every month, and out 0:30:51.640 --> 0:30:55.920 of that, I'm able to pay my staff so much 0:30:55.920 --> 0:30:58.160 more than i was beforehand. It's really great to hear 0:30:58.200 --> 0:31:00.600 what you say. Because we talk about being more sustainable, 0:31:00.680 --> 0:31:02.800 more efficient, you really have figured it out and as 0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:05.560 a result have become more profitable. What a great story. 0:31:05.760 --> 0:31:08.560 It's featured in this week's issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine. 0:31:08.560 --> 0:31:15.160 Comes courtesy of technology editor slash food ficionado Joshua Boosting, 0:31:15.560 --> 0:31:17.800 and of course our thanks to uh the owner and 0:31:17.880 --> 0:31:20.360 chef of New York City restaurant Dirt Candy Amanda Cohen. 0:31:20.640 --> 0:31:22.840 Really great to have you both, Thanks so much. Hey, 0:31:22.920 --> 0:31:26.120 let's tell do it at the next restaurant next time. Exactly. 0:31:26.760 --> 0:31:30.239 I'm into cucumbers, tasty menu. Let's do it all right. 0:31:30.280 --> 0:31:31.880 That wraps up the first hour of the weekend edition 0:31:31.920 --> 0:31:34.280 of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Masser 0:31:34.400 --> 0:31:36.440 and I'm Tim Stanebeck. Ahead of our next hour. Raj 0:31:36.560 --> 0:31:39.560 Roger Ottenham received the longest prison sentence ever handed out 0:31:39.560 --> 0:31:41.720 for insider trading. Now he's a free man and he 0:31:41.760 --> 0:31:44.720 says prosecutor has got his case all wrong. We talked 0:31:44.760 --> 0:31:47.000 to the former head of Galleon Group and you do 0:31:47.080 --> 0:31:49.360 not want to miss the conversation. And also the CEO 0:31:49.360 --> 0:31:51.840 of online mental health care startups Cerebral, joining us on 0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:54.840 the heels of the company's latest funding round. It's now 0:31:54.920 --> 0:31:57.760 valued at almost five billion dollars plus. The federal government's 0:31:57.760 --> 0:32:00.560 efforts to counter Chinese espionage in America CAB not only 0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:03.920 produced a few convictions, they've also drawn complaints about racism 0:32:03.920 --> 0:32:18.520 and FBI misconduct. That story ahead. This is Bloomberg. This 0:32:19.200 --> 0:32:23.360 is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and editors 0:32:23.360 --> 0:32:27.600 who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, 0:32:27.640 --> 0:32:31.280 finance and tech news As it happened. Sloomberg Business Week 0:32:31.480 --> 0:32:35.040 with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on 0:32:35.320 --> 0:32:39.080 Bloomberg Radio. I am Carol Masser and I'm Tim stun 0:32:39.440 --> 0:32:41.480 Plennyhead in our second hour of the weekend edition of 0:32:41.480 --> 0:32:44.880 Bloomberg Business Week, including an in depth conversation with Raj 0:32:45.000 --> 0:32:47.840 Raj Rottenham. He's the former hedge fund titan who spent 0:32:47.920 --> 0:32:50.480 seven and a half years in prison for his role 0:32:50.520 --> 0:32:53.920 in a landmark insider trading scheme. Now he's here to 0:32:53.960 --> 0:32:56.920 tell his side of the story. Plus a conversation with 0:32:56.960 --> 0:32:59.959 the CEO of Cerebral, an online mental health start up 0:33:00.080 --> 0:33:02.640 with backing from soft Bank that's valued and nearly five 0:33:02.840 --> 0:33:05.440 billion dollars. First up this hour a story you'll find 0:33:05.480 --> 0:33:07.720 online at business Week dot com and of course, on 0:33:07.760 --> 0:33:10.560 the Bloomberg terminal. It's about a three year old Department 0:33:10.560 --> 0:33:14.560 of Justice program that's produced a few convictions lots of complaints, 0:33:14.600 --> 0:33:19.160 though about racism and FBI misconduct. Bloomberg News senior investigations 0:33:19.160 --> 0:33:21.959 writer Sheridan Prosso wrote the story on the dj so 0:33:22.000 --> 0:33:25.120 called China Initiative. She joined us along with business Week 0:33:25.200 --> 0:33:27.720 editor Joel Weber to explain why attempts to root out 0:33:27.800 --> 0:33:31.400 Chinese spies inside American corporations and research labs have often 0:33:31.440 --> 0:33:34.800 been futile. I looked at the indictments that had been 0:33:34.840 --> 0:33:38.480 announced or unsealed since the China INITIPI was launched, and 0:33:38.520 --> 0:33:41.120 this was a big sweeping effort. Uh, you know, the 0:33:41.200 --> 0:33:44.120 FBI got up, the FBI director got up, ahead of 0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:46.120 the Department of Justice got up. They all said, we 0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:48.720 this is a huge problem. China is stealing our state 0:33:48.800 --> 0:33:50.800 secrets and taking the back to China. We're going to 0:33:50.960 --> 0:33:53.720 root this out of America with a big sweeping effort 0:33:54.040 --> 0:33:57.240 to do so. Now, only about fifty fifty or so 0:33:57.320 --> 0:34:00.240 announcement indictments have been announced since then. Took to look 0:34:00.240 --> 0:34:03.240 closely at the cases. They've hardly found any spies at all. 0:34:03.320 --> 0:34:06.680 The largest number of cases, it's about thirty eight percent 0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:11.640 of the total, have been against professors, researchers, academics who 0:34:11.880 --> 0:34:15.399 do research in laboratories, who also, you know, may teach 0:34:15.400 --> 0:34:18.640 a class in China or go give some lectures there. Uh, 0:34:18.680 --> 0:34:22.480 they've been charged with fraud for not disclosing, not checking 0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:25.000 off a box that they have done that. And yet 0:34:25.320 --> 0:34:29.359 the disclosure violence, the disclosure rules are very unclear as 0:34:29.360 --> 0:34:32.360 to who they were supposed to disclose that too, and 0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:35.560 and and how and so. In the cases that have 0:34:36.200 --> 0:34:39.279 actually been charged of been virtually none of them has 0:34:39.320 --> 0:34:42.400 been charged with spying. There's only twenty of those cases 0:34:42.440 --> 0:34:46.120 that actually do allege any economic espionage of whatsoever. One 0:34:46.120 --> 0:34:50.200 of those professors is Franklin Tower. You profile in the piece, 0:34:51.160 --> 0:34:55.400 explain why you chose his story and what he's been 0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:59.480 charged with. So, Franklin Tower was the very first professor 0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:03.480 to be dieted under the initiative, and he is charged 0:35:03.480 --> 0:35:06.080 with fraud for failing to take off a box that 0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:09.480 says he had a conflict of interest. What he actually 0:35:09.520 --> 0:35:13.560 did do, according to his defense attorney, is that he 0:35:13.719 --> 0:35:15.799 was looking for a job in China and he was 0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:19.120 emailing back and forth with a university he's teaching at 0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:23.640 the University of Kansas, and he's, uh, he actually just 0:35:23.880 --> 0:35:26.399 was kind of, you know, exploring, gee, what what would 0:35:26.400 --> 0:35:28.560 be the possibility as if I went back to China. Now, 0:35:28.880 --> 0:35:31.480 according to his defense, he never signed any contract, he 0:35:31.600 --> 0:35:34.360 never actually did teach in China, and he decided not 0:35:34.400 --> 0:35:36.440 to take the job. He just, you know, resumed his 0:35:36.480 --> 0:35:41.080 teaching duties in Kansas. But when the FBI actually conducted 0:35:41.080 --> 0:35:44.280 a search of his emails, and that search, the defense 0:35:44.320 --> 0:35:47.600 attorneys tried to get ruled out because in fact it 0:35:47.719 --> 0:35:51.600 was they've charged that the FBI actually engaged in his 0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:55.160 conduct and actually doing a search of his emails because 0:35:55.640 --> 0:35:58.160 there was he was accused he got into a dispute 0:35:58.200 --> 0:36:00.480 with a co author over in a research paper, was 0:36:00.520 --> 0:36:04.760 accused by the co author of not giving proper credit 0:36:04.800 --> 0:36:06.680 and then the co author said, I'm going to report 0:36:06.719 --> 0:36:08.879 you as a spy to the FBI. She said about 0:36:08.880 --> 0:36:11.200 an email that was revealed in the court cases. And 0:36:11.239 --> 0:36:13.280 so as a result of that, the FBI got a warrant, 0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:16.600 found that the that the professor had had this correspondence 0:36:16.640 --> 0:36:18.960 with the university back in China, and now he's being 0:36:19.040 --> 0:36:22.000 charged with a felony fraud, which carries a sentence of 0:36:22.200 --> 0:36:26.680 twenty years in prison. So you you mentioned of fraud 0:36:26.719 --> 0:36:31.160 there um and in general almost uh none of these 0:36:31.600 --> 0:36:34.399 individuals have been accused of spying, but there have been 0:36:35.239 --> 0:36:39.400 cases of academic researchers and professors just failing to disclose 0:36:39.440 --> 0:36:42.759 their affiliations. So so walk us through. You know what, 0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:46.360 how the Department of Justice is actually dealt with what 0:36:46.560 --> 0:36:50.719 they what they've actually found for the first place, to 0:36:50.719 --> 0:36:53.759 go to trial of all of these cases against researchers, 0:36:53.760 --> 0:36:57.239 there was there were six cases dropped in uh In 0:36:57.760 --> 0:37:00.600 over the summertime. A number of the case is just 0:37:00.640 --> 0:37:02.360 simply haven't held up when they've gone to court. The 0:37:02.440 --> 0:37:05.040 very first one that did go to court in June, 0:37:05.200 --> 0:37:07.800 that was a professor at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville. 0:37:08.200 --> 0:37:13.239 He actually was the first trial ended in a mistrial. 0:37:13.640 --> 0:37:16.640 The Deparmanent of Justice decided to rebring the case, and 0:37:16.680 --> 0:37:19.080 then the judge actually didn't even let that go to 0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:22.719 a jury. He just issued a directed verdict in September 0:37:22.760 --> 0:37:26.359 that basically said, look, this guy didn't do anything wrong. 0:37:26.400 --> 0:37:28.719 There's no evidence of fraud here. He was supposed to 0:37:28.760 --> 0:37:32.360 have disclosed if he made more than ten thousand dollars 0:37:32.520 --> 0:37:36.040 in outside lecturing from universities in China, which he had 0:37:36.080 --> 0:37:40.000 done over a summer when he wasn't teaching the He 0:37:40.040 --> 0:37:42.400 actually earned only three thousand dollars, and yet he was 0:37:42.480 --> 0:37:45.840 charged anyway. So that case actually was the judge issued 0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:48.480 a rebuke essentially to the prosecutor's end to the FBI 0:37:48.920 --> 0:37:52.319 that there wasn't enough evidence here to to charge this 0:37:52.360 --> 0:37:56.040 person with fraud whatsoever. And virtually half of the cases 0:37:56.080 --> 0:37:58.840 that have been brought against these researchers have been dropped, 0:37:59.040 --> 0:38:01.400 so they're just really not standing up in court. We have. 0:38:01.480 --> 0:38:04.600 The latest case actually to go to trial is that 0:38:04.760 --> 0:38:08.880 of Charles Leeward at Harvard University. His trial started yesterday 0:38:08.960 --> 0:38:11.360 and that is going to be ongoing in the coming weeks. 0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:13.760 It's going to be very interesting to see what happens 0:38:14.200 --> 0:38:18.040 in that case. He's accused of lying to Harvard University 0:38:18.040 --> 0:38:20.480 about some teaching and research that he was doing at 0:38:20.480 --> 0:38:23.600 a university back in China. That was Bloomberg New Senior 0:38:23.640 --> 0:38:26.239 Investigations writer shared in Prosso along with Business We Get 0:38:26.239 --> 0:38:28.480 It or Joel Webber. Sherry's story can be found on 0:38:28.520 --> 0:38:31.600 the Bloomberg terminal and online at business week dot com. 0:38:31.680 --> 0:38:34.320 You're listening to Bloomberg business Week. Coming up, a mental 0:38:34.320 --> 0:38:37.880 health services startup is now worth nearly five billion dollars 0:38:38.080 --> 0:38:40.279 thanks to the latest funding round led by soft Bank 0:38:40.320 --> 0:38:43.480 Vision Fund. Too, we'll talk with Cerebral's founder and CEO, 0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:48.160 Kyle Robertson and later convicted insider trader Raj ros Rottenham 0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:50.799 defends the actions that sent him to prison. We have 0:38:50.840 --> 0:39:01.400 a conversation with him just ahead. This is Bloomberg. This 0:39:01.920 --> 0:39:05.600 is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick 0:39:05.640 --> 0:39:10.800 Takes Tim Stenovan from Bloomberg Radio. Early this month, Bloomberg 0:39:10.840 --> 0:39:14.359 Senior reporter Jillian Tan brought us a story about Cerebral. 0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:17.600 It's a startup that provides mental health services all online. 0:39:17.800 --> 0:39:21.120 The company said its valuation roughly quadruple to four point 0:39:21.120 --> 0:39:23.960 eight billion dollars after raising three million dollars in an 0:39:24.000 --> 0:39:27.000 equity funding round led by soft Bank Vision Fund Too. Yeah, 0:39:27.000 --> 0:39:29.520 that'll get your attention. We caught up a Cerebral founder 0:39:29.520 --> 0:39:31.960 and CEO, Kyle Robertson. He says the goal is to 0:39:32.040 --> 0:39:35.640 make Cerebral and in network provider with every health plan 0:39:35.719 --> 0:39:38.319 in all fifty states. He's already lined up a bunch 0:39:38.320 --> 0:39:41.480 of partnerships and also to become a one stop shop 0:39:41.480 --> 0:39:45.320 for mental healthcare across the globe. I think the historical 0:39:45.440 --> 0:39:48.920 stigma around access to high quality mental health care has 0:39:48.920 --> 0:39:53.080 been really problematic. Right, Um, you have millions, really tens 0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:56.520 of millions of Americans who historically have suffered from mental 0:39:56.560 --> 0:40:00.239 health challenges and the vast majority of them haven't and 0:40:00.320 --> 0:40:02.680 the help that they deserved and need it right, And 0:40:02.760 --> 0:40:07.160 I think that the pandemic, coupled with a cultural shift 0:40:07.239 --> 0:40:10.799 and recognition that anyone can face mental health challenges and 0:40:10.840 --> 0:40:14.080 there shouldn't be a stigma around it, has been really powerful, 0:40:14.120 --> 0:40:17.680 and so I think you know Naomi Osaka, the famous 0:40:17.680 --> 0:40:21.040 tennis players, while Simone Biles is now our chief impact officer. 0:40:21.160 --> 0:40:23.960 It's a rebrawl UM coming out and saying, hey, you know, 0:40:25.360 --> 0:40:28.600 I'm not okay, right, I can't continue doing this. And 0:40:28.600 --> 0:40:32.440 and seeing public figures like that say hey, it's okay 0:40:32.480 --> 0:40:34.360 to not be okay and it's okay to get the 0:40:34.360 --> 0:40:37.799 help you deserve and need has been really really powerful 0:40:38.080 --> 0:40:41.040 UM from a de sigmatization perspective, and that's really a 0:40:41.080 --> 0:40:44.440 big part of our mission. It's a rebrawl. It's destigmatizing 0:40:44.480 --> 0:40:46.920 access to high quality mental health care so that everyone 0:40:46.920 --> 0:40:49.279 will get the care they deserve a need. So we're 0:40:49.320 --> 0:40:52.600 really excited. Go ahead. No, And what I was curious about, So, Kyle, 0:40:52.640 --> 0:40:55.000 what's your approach? I mean, we all know kind of 0:40:55.040 --> 0:41:00.160 the traditional pro to guests to getting UM mental mental care, 0:41:00.360 --> 0:41:05.520 mental healthcare. What's your approach specifically? How is it different? Yes? 0:41:05.840 --> 0:41:09.200 I think for us, it's really about building the one 0:41:09.280 --> 0:41:12.080 stop shop for high quality mental healthcare. So whether you 0:41:12.120 --> 0:41:16.719 need you know, wellness, meditation, clinical care, whether that be 0:41:16.800 --> 0:41:22.040 medication management, therapy, counseling, being able to access that from 0:41:22.080 --> 0:41:27.360 home right via telemedicine is really what Cerebral is fundamentally 0:41:27.400 --> 0:41:31.480 about an unlocking supply of clinicians and lock stuff with 0:41:31.520 --> 0:41:34.680 demands such that we can take way times from traditional 0:41:34.920 --> 0:41:37.920 way times up two three months to quite literally minutes. Right. 0:41:37.960 --> 0:41:40.760 So we have something called instant live visits where we're 0:41:40.840 --> 0:41:43.440 able to know exactly how many clinicians we need at 0:41:43.440 --> 0:41:47.440 a given time, with what licenses, with what specialization, such 0:41:47.480 --> 0:41:50.680 that a client or consumer of behavioral healthcare can come 0:41:50.680 --> 0:41:53.960 on too Cerebral sign up and actually be seen by 0:41:53.960 --> 0:41:56.800 a licensed clinician within fifteen minutes. What are the guardrails 0:41:56.840 --> 0:41:59.960 that are up because if if you're talking about prescribe 0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:03.880 medication as well, UM, what are the ways that you 0:42:03.880 --> 0:42:06.759 know you avoid abuse? Yeah? I think I think one 0:42:06.840 --> 0:42:11.080 important thing to think about, right is the distinction between 0:42:11.120 --> 0:42:14.960 telemedicine and in person care, right. And I think historically 0:42:15.080 --> 0:42:19.919 there has been a bias against telemedicine despite the fact 0:42:20.000 --> 0:42:24.040 that all of the clinical research supports that telemedicine outcomes 0:42:24.040 --> 0:42:27.440 are equal are actually better UM and our chief medical officer, 0:42:27.560 --> 0:42:31.560 Dr David Moe Harvard Tain Psychiatrists actually recently published a 0:42:31.600 --> 0:42:35.319 white paper highlighting our outcomes and highlighting the fact that 0:42:35.840 --> 0:42:40.080 you know outcomes as measured by symptom based rating scales 0:42:40.120 --> 0:42:42.399 like the PHQ, the Gods, the I s I are 0:42:42.400 --> 0:42:46.480 actually equal or better with telemedicine. UM. There absolutely need 0:42:46.560 --> 0:42:48.560 to be guard rails in place, and there absolutely are 0:42:48.600 --> 0:42:52.040 for Cerebroll and other telemedicine organizations. But I think it's 0:42:52.080 --> 0:42:58.040 important this recognition supported by clinical research that telemedicine actually 0:42:58.120 --> 0:43:01.719 leads to equal or better outcomes. The most importantly that 0:43:01.760 --> 0:43:04.800 are access to care. Jillian's story has this great picture 0:43:04.840 --> 0:43:10.240 of you there with Simone Biles, Olympic gymnast, incredible UM 0:43:10.280 --> 0:43:14.760 athlete who walked away from the Olympics putting her mental 0:43:14.760 --> 0:43:18.120 health above her crust for gold. Uh. It really stood 0:43:18.120 --> 0:43:20.840 out and she you know, I think it created and 0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:23.080 sparked a lot of conversations. I know, certainly for us 0:43:23.320 --> 0:43:27.120 in our newsroom, talk us about the interactions and conversations 0:43:27.160 --> 0:43:30.439 you've had with her and understanding maybe as somebody who's 0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:33.719 running a company, but really understanding you know, what's involved 0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:35.920 and what's needed really by those who are trying to 0:43:35.960 --> 0:43:39.160 improve their mental well being. Absolutely, you know, I think 0:43:39.200 --> 0:43:44.200 I think Simone's voice when in Tokyo she said I'm 0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:46.799 going to stop here right, my mental health is more 0:43:46.840 --> 0:43:50.160 important than gold medals. It was really powerful, right, It 0:43:50.200 --> 0:43:52.800 was really powerful for a lot of people, myself included 0:43:52.840 --> 0:43:55.960 as the CEO of a mental health company. Right. I 0:43:56.000 --> 0:44:00.640 actually was sitting in a hospital bed this summer, um 0:44:00.760 --> 0:44:04.080 because I was suffering from a mersa pneumonia infection when 0:44:04.760 --> 0:44:09.200 I was watching the Olympics, and my mental health was suffering. Right, 0:44:09.719 --> 0:44:12.799 Being locked up in a hospital bed, right, not knowing 0:44:12.840 --> 0:44:17.440 what was going to happen. And seeing her say, right, um, 0:44:17.480 --> 0:44:20.080 my mental health is more important here and I'm going 0:44:20.120 --> 0:44:23.120 to stop was so powerful for me. And I think 0:44:23.120 --> 0:44:27.000 when I saw that, and when our organization saw that, 0:44:27.080 --> 0:44:29.719 we knew we had to partner with Simone, Right. We 0:44:29.800 --> 0:44:32.680 knew we had to partner with Simone to tell the 0:44:32.719 --> 0:44:36.799 world that taking care of your mental health is more 0:44:36.880 --> 0:44:40.760 important than anything, right, and that it needs to be prioritized, 0:44:40.800 --> 0:44:43.279 it needs to be distigmatized, and people need to get 0:44:43.480 --> 0:44:45.480 access to the care they deserve. And me, and that's 0:44:45.480 --> 0:44:48.040 what our organization is all about. That's what's the Rude 0:44:48.120 --> 0:44:51.520 role is about. Um. So we're we're really excited to 0:44:51.920 --> 0:44:55.400 be partnered with Simone as our Chief Impact Officer. And 0:44:55.640 --> 0:44:57.319 you know, even though we've only been working with her 0:44:57.360 --> 0:45:00.120 for a few months, she's had an incredible impact. So 0:45:00.200 --> 0:45:03.960 curious about the relationships that you have with clinicians, with 0:45:03.960 --> 0:45:07.799 with providers, and how you're able to treat people in 0:45:07.840 --> 0:45:10.200 different parts of the country because there are there is 0:45:10.239 --> 0:45:12.520 this patchwork of rules and regulations. I mean, correct me 0:45:12.560 --> 0:45:14.960 if I'm wrong. Doctor has to be licensed in a 0:45:15.000 --> 0:45:19.839 certain state? Correct, that's right. Yes, so there are licensing requirements, 0:45:19.840 --> 0:45:26.240 but one of the benefits of telemedicine is that particularly 0:45:26.280 --> 0:45:28.840 in rural areas where there's not a lot of access 0:45:28.840 --> 0:45:31.160 to high quality mental health care. Right. A small town 0:45:31.160 --> 0:45:34.880 in Appalachia may not even have a psychiatrist, right, Um, 0:45:34.920 --> 0:45:38.560 so we can get folks connected to the right level 0:45:38.560 --> 0:45:42.560 of care for them. Does the clinician need a state license? 0:45:43.080 --> 0:45:48.120 Generally the answer to that is yes. However, our clinicians 0:45:48.120 --> 0:45:51.000 are largely cross licensed across multiple states, so they may 0:45:51.000 --> 0:45:54.080 not have to sit in the same state that the 0:45:54.160 --> 0:45:57.319 patient that they're providing care to is sitting in, right, 0:45:57.360 --> 0:45:59.919 but they do have to be licensed. That said, there 0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:04.520 isn't a movement today towards universal license ar right, you know, 0:46:04.600 --> 0:46:08.520 we believe that it is a positive movement and that 0:46:08.719 --> 0:46:11.560 it would be good for society right because it is 0:46:11.600 --> 0:46:15.080 a lot more efficient um and there's no reason that 0:46:15.280 --> 0:46:21.160 with the proliferization of telemedicine that a clinician who's licensed 0:46:21.160 --> 0:46:24.120 in California but not licensed in New York or Georgia 0:46:24.440 --> 0:46:27.719 shouldn't be able to provide care to a patient there, right, 0:46:27.960 --> 0:46:30.160 So it's definitely something we believe in, but we do 0:46:30.280 --> 0:46:33.960 take advantage of licensing clinicians up in states that they're 0:46:34.000 --> 0:46:37.360 not physically nonstiled it. That's Kyle Robertson. He's the founder 0:46:37.360 --> 0:46:40.680 and CEO of the online mental healthcare platform Cerebral. Still 0:46:40.719 --> 0:46:43.040 to comme on Bloomberg Business Week. A group that can 0:46:43.080 --> 0:46:45.760 get overlooked when it comes to gaining access to healthcare 0:46:45.760 --> 0:46:48.960 and other services. We're talking about the nation's homeless. Our 0:46:48.960 --> 0:46:51.480 next guest is the driving force behind an organization that 0:46:51.520 --> 0:46:54.000 seeks to help those in need with basic hygiene, and 0:46:54.040 --> 0:46:56.520 the story behind the organization is one you've got to hear. 0:46:56.880 --> 0:47:06.400 This is Bloomberg Broadcasting from the financial capital of the World, 0:47:06.480 --> 0:47:09.960 Bloomberg eleven Frio in New York to Washington, d C. 0:47:10.160 --> 0:47:14.880 Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one does San Francisco, 0:47:14.920 --> 0:47:18.399 Bloomberg nine sixty to the country, Sirius XM Chado one 0:47:18.440 --> 0:47:21.600 nineteen and around the globe of Bloomberg Business app and 0:47:21.640 --> 0:47:27.080 Bloomberg Radio dot com. This is Bloomberg Business Week. Late 0:47:27.160 --> 0:47:30.760 last month, we talked with Ali Goldstein, Laureal Paris USA President, 0:47:30.880 --> 0:47:33.680 about the company's Women of Worth program. It highlights women 0:47:33.719 --> 0:47:36.080 who are agents of change and addressing some of our 0:47:36.120 --> 0:47:41.160 most pressing social issues, sometimes because it's something they experienced firsthand. Yeah, 0:47:41.160 --> 0:47:42.680 we were lucky enough to have one of those women 0:47:42.760 --> 0:47:45.000 join us in studio as part of our Bloomberg Business 0:47:45.040 --> 0:47:48.880 Week radio and YouTube simulcast Women of Worth. Honorie Brianna Daniel. 0:47:49.000 --> 0:47:51.480 She's the founder of the Street Team movement, so tim 0:47:51.520 --> 0:47:54.480 It's a nonprofit. It provides free items related to personal hygiene, 0:47:54.480 --> 0:47:56.840 so we're talking about things like soap and laundry detergent. 0:47:57.400 --> 0:48:00.239 This goes to homeless people and it all happens using 0:48:00.320 --> 0:48:03.680 vending machines. Brianna actually decided to take action after voluntarily 0:48:03.719 --> 0:48:06.000 living on the streets of Orlando for more than a month. 0:48:06.239 --> 0:48:08.080 She did this quite a few years ago, and she 0:48:08.120 --> 0:48:10.200 did this with the idea to to better understand what 0:48:10.239 --> 0:48:15.000 homeless people experience each and every day. Consistent programming was 0:48:15.080 --> 0:48:18.960 something that was needed, specifically for hygiene. There was no 0:48:18.960 --> 0:48:21.439 one that was out there providing laundry services. We didn't 0:48:21.480 --> 0:48:24.360 have consistent access to showers. There was something that was 0:48:24.400 --> 0:48:27.200 there was a gap. So Street Team Movement ultimately did 0:48:27.239 --> 0:48:29.680 become a gap filler because we saw a need and 0:48:29.719 --> 0:48:32.399 we went in there just dominated Brianna. I always think 0:48:32.400 --> 0:48:34.759 people people often think, well, the solution is put people 0:48:34.800 --> 0:48:36.560 in shelters or have them to shelters, and that that's 0:48:36.600 --> 0:48:38.040 how they do. But there's a lot of people who 0:48:38.160 --> 0:48:40.480 don't because a lot of times shelters aren't a great 0:48:40.480 --> 0:48:42.360 place to be. They're they're not a great place to be, 0:48:42.480 --> 0:48:46.000 especially for a homeless woman with children. There are oftentimes 0:48:46.040 --> 0:48:48.400 people with criminal records in there. There's oftentimes people that 0:48:48.440 --> 0:48:51.240 are their their pedophiles in there, and it's it's tough 0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:53.960 um first being in the situation of being homeless, but 0:48:54.040 --> 0:48:56.600 also trying to protect your family, trying to protect the 0:48:56.600 --> 0:48:59.880 innocence of your kids. So oftentimes you know you're you're 0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:03.279 uh lad to make tough choices when you're out on 0:49:03.320 --> 0:49:05.920 the street's, especially as a woman talk a little bit 0:49:05.920 --> 0:49:09.400 about the Women of Worth and being an honor ee 0:49:09.480 --> 0:49:12.279 there because, as Carol mentioned, when we did speak to 0:49:12.880 --> 0:49:15.160 the folks from Loreal just a couple of weeks ago, 0:49:15.560 --> 0:49:19.239 we learned about this amazing network of people who come 0:49:19.239 --> 0:49:21.759 together and you know, in the more than fifteen years 0:49:21.760 --> 0:49:23.799 that the that Loreal has been doing this, it sort 0:49:23.800 --> 0:49:26.359 of turns into this idea of staying in touch with 0:49:26.440 --> 0:49:29.160 this this amazing group of women and people all over 0:49:29.200 --> 0:49:32.839 the country who create this network. Absolutely and you use 0:49:32.920 --> 0:49:35.359 the correct word to it's it's the network. It's it's 0:49:35.360 --> 0:49:39.000 absolutely amazing, over a hundred and sixty women strong. So 0:49:39.120 --> 0:49:42.719 to be a part of this fantastic uh, not just 0:49:42.760 --> 0:49:45.840 the Woman of Worth organization, but just the Loreal Paris 0:49:45.960 --> 0:49:49.520 previous honorees and really just being able to connect with them, 0:49:49.560 --> 0:49:52.560 seeing what they have taken away from the program and 0:49:52.600 --> 0:49:55.160 what they're doing, it's just, honestly, it's is such an 0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:57.040 honor all right. I want to take you back though, 0:49:57.080 --> 0:50:00.239 I tell me about you know, you said you've lived 0:50:00.239 --> 0:50:03.759 alongside Florida's homeless population for more than a month. How 0:50:03.800 --> 0:50:06.520 do you do something like that and and and how 0:50:06.520 --> 0:50:11.799 do you do that without being offensive or it's uncomfortable 0:50:11.880 --> 0:50:14.040 for people who are are living on the street, Like, 0:50:14.080 --> 0:50:17.760 how do you do that? Tell me about that? So, honestly, Carol, 0:50:17.840 --> 0:50:20.440 it's it was more so I was young. So at 0:50:20.440 --> 0:50:23.120 the time, I was twenty years old when this happened, 0:50:23.239 --> 0:50:26.399 and our homeless friends just wrote me off. I thought 0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:28.759 it was a teenage runaway. So I just I kept 0:50:28.760 --> 0:50:30.640 to myself a lot of times. I asked a lot 0:50:30.640 --> 0:50:32.839 of questions, but more so came from a place of 0:50:32.960 --> 0:50:35.680 just ignorance. I didn't know what I didn't know, and 0:50:35.719 --> 0:50:37.719 there were people that were willing to come alongside me 0:50:37.800 --> 0:50:41.160 and help me. Let me know what time of certain 0:50:41.239 --> 0:50:43.840 organizations are coming out and they're providing food, or what 0:50:44.000 --> 0:50:47.359 shelters are providing showers, what days is happening. Uh, when 0:50:47.400 --> 0:50:50.359 is someone doing haircuts or anything? You know. So they 0:50:50.400 --> 0:50:52.520 really were able to come in and and let me 0:50:52.560 --> 0:50:55.239 know the ropes, so to say. While I was out there, 0:50:55.239 --> 0:50:57.759 and it was it was incredibly scary, especially being a 0:50:57.800 --> 0:51:00.000 single woman on the streets, just because you were there 0:51:00.000 --> 0:51:03.279 at night. Yes, that first I didn't sleep. I want 0:51:03.280 --> 0:51:05.600 to say the first two and a half days I 0:51:05.640 --> 0:51:08.800 didn't sleep until I found a place to actually sleep. 0:51:09.160 --> 0:51:12.399 So it was really great in theory until it gets 0:51:12.440 --> 0:51:15.799 dark and downtown is completely deserted and it's it's just 0:51:15.920 --> 0:51:19.480 you standing there with a backpack and no plan, and 0:51:19.560 --> 0:51:21.719 that's what it becomes completely real to you that you 0:51:21.760 --> 0:51:24.160 have some you have some choices to make, and thankfully 0:51:24.200 --> 0:51:26.560 ended up finding a really safe place to sleep during 0:51:26.600 --> 0:51:28.000 the rest of the time that I was out there. 0:51:28.400 --> 0:51:33.000 But it was it was incredibly, incredibly scary. What did 0:51:33.040 --> 0:51:35.760 you learn about? Look, this is a crisis happening throughout 0:51:35.760 --> 0:51:38.480 our country. What are some policies, What are some messages 0:51:38.480 --> 0:51:44.080 for policymakers about understanding homeless, the homeless population, and how 0:51:44.120 --> 0:51:47.880 we can actually combat it. Yeah, that's a really great question. 0:51:48.000 --> 0:51:50.560 And that was actually one of the biggest struggles for 0:51:50.640 --> 0:51:53.359 us our first year's UM What Street Team Movement, inc. 0:51:53.400 --> 0:51:56.040 And it was speaking to our policymakers and letting them 0:51:56.040 --> 0:51:59.000 know that what we provide as hygiene, it's not a luxury, 0:51:59.440 --> 0:52:02.680 it is a necessity. And I remember standing in a 0:52:02.760 --> 0:52:04.799 council's amazing that you even have to say that, right, 0:52:04.920 --> 0:52:07.200 it was it was so insane and I and I said, okay, 0:52:07.200 --> 0:52:10.200 show of hands, who showered today? And every hand went 0:52:10.280 --> 0:52:13.440 up and I said, stop showering. If it's such a luxury, 0:52:13.600 --> 0:52:16.719 just stop doing it. You can't because you know you 0:52:16.800 --> 0:52:18.440 need to do it. You know you have to brush 0:52:18.440 --> 0:52:20.680 your teeth. You know there's things that you need to 0:52:20.719 --> 0:52:24.080 have access to. And it's not just a health issue, 0:52:24.120 --> 0:52:27.240 it's not just a health crisis. It's confidence, it's self worth. 0:52:27.560 --> 0:52:30.280 That's Brianna Daniel. She's the founder of Street Team Movement. 0:52:30.320 --> 0:52:33.560 Also a loreal Paris USA Women of Worth honoree for 0:52:34.719 --> 0:52:37.600 really loved that program. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. 0:52:37.680 --> 0:52:39.799 Coming up, the man who prosecutors say was in the 0:52:39.800 --> 0:52:42.440 middle of the largest hedge fund insider trading ring in 0:52:42.520 --> 0:52:46.600 US history. He wants to set the record straight. Raj Rogeratum, 0:52:46.640 --> 0:52:49.240 the former CEO and co founder of the Galleon Group, 0:52:49.360 --> 0:52:52.200 tells us what he thinks the SEC got wrong and 0:52:52.239 --> 0:53:05.320 how he survived behind bars. This is Bloomberg. You're listening 0:53:05.360 --> 0:53:09.120 to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick 0:53:09.160 --> 0:53:14.200 Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. Roj Roger Rottenham was 0:53:14.200 --> 0:53:16.680 the co founder of the technology hedge fund Galleon Group, 0:53:16.680 --> 0:53:19.160 which at one time managed more than seven billion dollars. 0:53:19.160 --> 0:53:21.880 He was really, you know, near the top of his world, 0:53:22.280 --> 0:53:24.440 really though until he wasn't. I mean, think back to 0:53:24.480 --> 0:53:26.360 a few years ago. You remember the headlines. He was 0:53:26.440 --> 0:53:29.279 arrested in charge with insider trading back in October of 0:53:29.280 --> 0:53:32.280 two thousand nine. Later, he was found guilty of fourteen 0:53:32.320 --> 0:53:34.799 counts stemming from a seven year plot to trade on 0:53:34.840 --> 0:53:39.280 inside information from corporate executives, bankers, consultants, traders, and others. 0:53:39.400 --> 0:53:41.440 And then he did jail time. He served seven and 0:53:41.440 --> 0:53:43.840 a half years of an eleven year prison sentence for 0:53:43.920 --> 0:53:47.080 his role in what prosecutors say was one of America's 0:53:47.239 --> 0:53:51.040 largest ever hedge fund insider trading rings. Roger Rottenham was 0:53:51.080 --> 0:53:53.560 released in twenty nineteen. He's now out with a book 0:53:53.600 --> 0:53:56.719 that details his experience and what he says authorities got 0:53:56.719 --> 0:54:00.560 wrong in the case. It's called uneven Justice. Plot to 0:54:00.640 --> 0:54:03.920 sink Galllean Rods joined us at our Bloomberg interacted Broker's studio. 0:54:04.000 --> 0:54:06.560 He began by recounting the day he was first taken 0:54:06.560 --> 0:54:10.279 into custody. It was on his son's thirteen birthday. If 0:54:10.320 --> 0:54:12.960 you had asked me that morning, one of the hundred 0:54:12.960 --> 0:54:16.480 things you worry about inside the trading was not one 0:54:16.480 --> 0:54:19.720 of them. If you had asked me the FBI guys 0:54:19.760 --> 0:54:22.080 doing a good job, but the prosecutors are doing a job, 0:54:22.200 --> 0:54:25.279 good job, I would have said yes. I didn't know 0:54:25.360 --> 0:54:27.880 anybody who went to prison, nor did I know anybody 0:54:27.880 --> 0:54:30.480 who knew anybody who went to prison. So when I 0:54:30.520 --> 0:54:35.759 got that knock on the door at approximately six or 0:54:35.800 --> 0:54:39.600 seven o'clock, kids, kids in the house, I opened it 0:54:39.920 --> 0:54:45.840 and I saw this sea of blue um jackets with 0:54:45.960 --> 0:54:49.200 the FBI with guns drawn, and they said are you 0:54:49.280 --> 0:54:52.280 Raj Rader Ratnam And I said yes, and they said 0:54:52.880 --> 0:54:55.680 you're on the rest. I said what for? And they said, 0:54:56.360 --> 0:55:00.120 we can't tell you, and then started the first in 0:55:00.160 --> 0:55:04.160 a series of misconduct. They told me that I couldn't 0:55:04.200 --> 0:55:07.480 I won't see my son for twenty five years. They said, 0:55:07.800 --> 0:55:09.760 take a good look at your wife. She looks happy 0:55:09.800 --> 0:55:14.759 because she can spend all the money, and then handcuffed 0:55:14.800 --> 0:55:18.799 me and took me down in their car to the 0:55:19.000 --> 0:55:23.480 FBI offices. We were talking when you came in, Raj, 0:55:23.600 --> 0:55:26.359 about when you actually had time to write this book, 0:55:26.360 --> 0:55:29.080 and you said you wrote some of that and you 0:55:29.080 --> 0:55:31.520 wrote it when when you were in prison? What what? 0:55:31.760 --> 0:55:35.160 What was it like, you know, I wrote of the 0:55:35.160 --> 0:55:38.600 book by hand in prison, and as I told you, 0:55:39.280 --> 0:55:42.400 I have tremendous respect for Shakespeare and authors of that 0:55:42.560 --> 0:55:45.759 generation because you couldn't move paragraphs around, you couldn't do 0:55:45.800 --> 0:55:50.279 spell checks, you know. But when it's a project that 0:55:50.360 --> 0:55:54.359 you're passionate about, uh, it's easy. I started writing one 0:55:54.360 --> 0:55:57.359 hour a day, then two hours and three hours, and 0:55:57.400 --> 0:56:01.080 I was exhausted after four hours. It's it's most authors 0:56:01.080 --> 0:56:03.239 will say that, I have to say, just picking back 0:56:03.239 --> 0:56:05.319 on what Tim asked, one of the things that as 0:56:05.520 --> 0:56:07.680 our newsroom knows that you were coming in to talk 0:56:07.719 --> 0:56:09.759 with us, one of the questions that so many people 0:56:09.760 --> 0:56:11.440 ask me is that, you know, ask him, what was 0:56:11.520 --> 0:56:14.520 jail like? Jail was? I would say, if I had 0:56:14.520 --> 0:56:18.080 to say it in one with spartan, um, you know 0:56:18.160 --> 0:56:22.160 I went to boarding he mistreated at all, Well not really, 0:56:22.719 --> 0:56:25.040 but you know I went to boarding school in a 0:56:25.040 --> 0:56:28.120 different country, foreign country, at the age of eleven, and 0:56:28.200 --> 0:56:31.160 that life was spartan. But you get used to it. Now. 0:56:31.160 --> 0:56:34.520 You have to be smart because in jail, like in 0:56:34.560 --> 0:56:38.000 the jungles of Africa, there are predators that tried to 0:56:38.640 --> 0:56:41.640 prey on you, try to get money from you, and 0:56:41.680 --> 0:56:44.879 you have to stand your ground and you know, give 0:56:44.920 --> 0:56:47.160 the impression that you're not going to be bullied. Did 0:56:47.239 --> 0:56:50.960 you ever run into um Rah Grypta because he he 0:56:51.040 --> 0:56:53.200 was the former government sex director. He was convicted of 0:56:53.239 --> 0:56:56.279 insider trading, of passing illegal tips to you. He went 0:56:56.320 --> 0:56:58.520 to that same Massachusetts prison. Did you run into him? 0:56:58.560 --> 0:57:00.880 Did you guys have conversations? You know, we had breakfast 0:57:00.920 --> 0:57:04.880 every day. Did we played scrabble? We played bridge? So 0:57:05.320 --> 0:57:09.000 I wonder as you look back at what happened, how 0:57:09.000 --> 0:57:12.040 it evolved, would you have done anything differently in terms 0:57:12.040 --> 0:57:14.520 of how you ran your fund um and how you 0:57:14.600 --> 0:57:18.520 ran things there? No, caroll I, I don't regret anything. 0:57:18.960 --> 0:57:24.520 Let me just explain. The SEC interviewed twenty four Galleon analysts, 0:57:25.120 --> 0:57:29.080 and all of them said, we didn't see anything that's wrong. 0:57:29.800 --> 0:57:32.200 When you run a company with hundred and eighty people, 0:57:32.800 --> 0:57:36.160 somebody would see something if you did something wrong. I 0:57:36.280 --> 0:57:40.640 think what happened was the law enforcement people did not 0:57:41.000 --> 0:57:45.600 understand the hedge fund industry or the investment industry. What 0:57:45.680 --> 0:57:49.240 we do all day long is talk about stocks. I 0:57:49.360 --> 0:57:55.840 had thirty five analysts, really highly educated, highly skilled, that 0:57:55.920 --> 0:57:59.439 we were spending a forty million dollars a year. That 0:57:59.560 --> 0:58:02.240 was the a drock of my analysis and my trading. 0:58:02.800 --> 0:58:05.360 Now you might ask me why do you talk to 0:58:05.400 --> 0:58:08.320 other people. You talk to other people because you want 0:58:08.360 --> 0:58:11.720 to know what's in the market, What are people chatting about? 0:58:11.800 --> 0:58:15.640 And is your view different from that of my trades 0:58:15.680 --> 0:58:21.240 that they alleged. We had an existing pre positions before 0:58:21.560 --> 0:58:25.400 the alleged trip. At that time, the U S Attorney, 0:58:25.480 --> 0:58:29.760 Mr pret Barara came up with his own theory of 0:58:29.840 --> 0:58:33.840 what insided trading should be or that even he prosecuted. 0:58:34.560 --> 0:58:38.760 Five years after my conviction, the second Circuit firmly rejected 0:58:38.800 --> 0:58:43.280 his theory, saying that the person who did the trade 0:58:43.320 --> 0:58:47.040 or the tip should have known the tipper should have 0:58:47.120 --> 0:58:51.080 known that the tipper was violating a fiduciary responsibility and 0:58:51.120 --> 0:58:55.000 should have given a benefit. Soon after that, we've had 0:58:55.040 --> 0:58:59.560 a very few inside a trading cases. Rush. Might be 0:58:59.760 --> 0:59:03.000 some listening right now and just asking the question why 0:59:03.160 --> 0:59:05.160 why we are interviewing you? You do, of course I 0:59:05.360 --> 0:59:07.360 have a book out, But what would you say to 0:59:07.440 --> 0:59:11.040 somebody who says, you know, even after these convictions, why 0:59:11.080 --> 0:59:13.960 why should people listen to you? Okay, let me just 0:59:14.000 --> 0:59:16.560 take a step back, and then I'll answer your question. 0:59:16.920 --> 0:59:21.320 Number One, all proceeds of the book are going to charity, 0:59:21.560 --> 0:59:23.360 so I'm not trying to get richer. I'm not getting 0:59:23.400 --> 0:59:26.440 rich out of it. Number two, this is not about 0:59:26.560 --> 0:59:30.120 rach Rach Ratnam. This is about a bigger issue. It's 0:59:30.160 --> 0:59:35.280 social justice. And I had a front row seat. I was. 0:59:35.840 --> 0:59:39.200 They came into my apartment early in the morning. They 0:59:39.280 --> 0:59:43.320 arrested me. I went to trial. You know that of 0:59:43.320 --> 0:59:47.280 the people who are alleged plea bargain, I knew there 0:59:47.320 --> 0:59:49.840 was a trial penalty, which is too exces sentence when 0:59:49.880 --> 0:59:53.919 you if you, if you pre bargain, and I spend 0:59:54.000 --> 0:59:58.280 time in prison. Right. The reason I'm writing this book 0:59:58.680 --> 1:00:03.600 is to begin to discus on the biggest social justice issue. 1:00:04.200 --> 1:00:08.760 Number One, the FBI lied in the affricat to get 1:00:08.760 --> 1:00:12.120 a white tap on me, right, and the judge allowed it. 1:00:13.440 --> 1:00:18.040 The FBI lied and the judge allowed it. Every single 1:00:18.040 --> 1:00:21.880 American should be concerned, You, Tim and Cattle, you should 1:00:21.880 --> 1:00:24.600 be concerned that the FBI can lie and listen on 1:00:24.720 --> 1:00:29.640 to you. The second point is there are no checks 1:00:29.640 --> 1:00:36.160 and balances for law enforcement with its prosecutors or FBI agents. 1:00:36.760 --> 1:00:38.840 I want to jump in because hence this really explains 1:00:38.880 --> 1:00:40.800 and you go into it all of this in your 1:00:40.800 --> 1:00:43.960 book on even justice, hence the title UM. And I 1:00:44.000 --> 1:00:46.600 think we could probably go for hours, and I think 1:00:46.600 --> 1:00:50.040 it's productive that we do UM, certainly as journalists and 1:00:50.080 --> 1:00:53.080 just as society, to look into measures in terms of 1:00:53.080 --> 1:00:55.920 how law enforcement operates. We certainly had a lot of 1:00:55.960 --> 1:00:58.400 conversations coming off of George Floyd over the last couple 1:00:58.440 --> 1:01:01.320 of years and just others, case after case on Wall 1:01:01.320 --> 1:01:04.000 Street or elsewhere. I guess the point is bottom line. 1:01:04.480 --> 1:01:06.560 You know, many would argue that the case against you 1:01:06.600 --> 1:01:09.480 was solid. Uh, we've seen another to go to jail 1:01:09.960 --> 1:01:11.800 right as a result connected with it. We think about 1:01:11.800 --> 1:01:15.800 a nil kumar um and I'm just wondering, I mean, 1:01:15.960 --> 1:01:18.720 do you argue in the end that you were innocent, 1:01:19.200 --> 1:01:22.160 that you that there wasn't something, There wasn't insider trading, 1:01:22.160 --> 1:01:24.200 there wasn't information that was going on, or are you 1:01:24.320 --> 1:01:28.439 concerned about the process good or bad. But that got 1:01:28.480 --> 1:01:31.240 to a case that many said was very solid against you, 1:01:31.280 --> 1:01:33.200 and you were convicted, and you tried to appeal it 1:01:33.240 --> 1:01:35.360 and it it still was undone. It was a great 1:01:35.440 --> 1:01:38.920 questions and let me answer right. As an American, I 1:01:39.000 --> 1:01:44.320 accept the jury's verdict. Number Two. Three years later, in 1:01:44.360 --> 1:01:49.000 a case against a co conspirator of mine, with the 1:01:49.200 --> 1:01:56.160 same stocks, the same district, southern district, the same cooperating witnesses, 1:01:56.680 --> 1:02:00.080 a jury found that person innocent. A different jury M 1:02:00.720 --> 1:02:03.880 I'm sure you're gonna ask me why. That's because Alma, 1:02:04.000 --> 1:02:08.960 the government's chief witnessed, totally recanted on his testimony and 1:02:09.040 --> 1:02:12.920 said I didn't give large any information that was useful, 1:02:13.160 --> 1:02:16.600 and that's in the court documents. Five years later, as 1:02:16.600 --> 1:02:21.560 I said, the second circuit reversed pre Barara's position, and 1:02:21.640 --> 1:02:26.480 one last point, Mr Barrara himself in assembled the task 1:02:26.520 --> 1:02:29.080 force with some of the same judges in my case 1:02:29.480 --> 1:02:33.280 and some prosecutors, and the conclusion was the loss of 1:02:33.400 --> 1:02:39.320 Monkey and this tremendous confusion of the market participants. Now, 1:02:39.360 --> 1:02:42.960 as a market participant, I welcome rules. I want the 1:02:43.040 --> 1:02:46.080 rules to be followed not only by the market participants, 1:02:46.120 --> 1:02:49.240 but the authorities. Do you feel like regulators, you know, 1:02:49.400 --> 1:02:53.200 don't really have enough information, don't really understand the way 1:02:53.480 --> 1:02:56.360 markets work. Are they just getting so complicated and intricate 1:02:56.720 --> 1:02:59.120 that it is tough to regulate? Well, I think I 1:02:59.160 --> 1:03:02.640 can already talk about case. I don't think they understood 1:03:03.240 --> 1:03:07.160 the rules and the life of an investor. Number two 1:03:07.200 --> 1:03:10.800 in the enthusiasm to bring a lot of cases, because 1:03:10.840 --> 1:03:13.440 remember this was in the aftermarket of the financial crisis, 1:03:13.480 --> 1:03:17.040 correct and made off and all of that. They wanted 1:03:17.480 --> 1:03:22.000 somebody that because the public was crying for blood. They 1:03:22.080 --> 1:03:24.680 didn't go after any of the big banks criminally, although 1:03:24.680 --> 1:03:27.880 they tried. Many would argue that the prosecute you prosecutors 1:03:27.880 --> 1:03:30.920 were looking certainly into the big banks, they didn't look 1:03:30.920 --> 1:03:33.560 hard enough. That was Raj Raj Rodam, the former CEO 1:03:33.640 --> 1:03:35.600 and co founder of the Galleon Group. His new book, 1:03:35.640 --> 1:03:38.240 Uneven Justice, The Plot to Saint Galllean is out now, 1:03:38.400 --> 1:03:40.480 really working on getting his side out there, but also 1:03:40.600 --> 1:03:43.960 interesting to hear that, yeah he's an investor, he's uh 1:03:44.600 --> 1:03:47.280 and in crypto too, Yeah exactly. All right. That wraps 1:03:47.360 --> 1:03:49.920 up the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. 1:03:49.920 --> 1:03:51.960 Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Carol Masser and 1:03:52.000 --> 1:03:54.320 I'm Tim Stanovik. Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business 1:03:54.360 --> 1:03:56.160 Week Monday through Friday. It starts at two pm Wall 1:03:56.160 --> 1:03:58.560 Street Time on Bloomberg Radio. You can also watch our 1:03:58.600 --> 1:04:02.080 daily broadcast on YouTube, Just searched Bloomberg Global News, and 1:04:02.160 --> 1:04:04.440 check out our Bloomberg Business Week podcast. You can find 1:04:04.480 --> 1:04:06.880 it at Bloomberg dot com, Apple, or wherever you get 1:04:06.880 --> 1:04:09.800 your podcast. Bloomberg Business Week is available on newsstands now 1:04:09.840 --> 1:04:12.560 at Bloomberg dot com, business week dot com, and on 1:04:12.600 --> 1:04:15.000 the Bloomberg Terminal. You can also see me on Bloomberg 1:04:15.080 --> 1:04:17.640 Quick Take available at Bloomberg dot com, slash Qt, and 1:04:17.680 --> 1:04:21.080 streaming platforms like Roku, Apple TV, Samsung TV, and more. 1:04:21.320 --> 1:04:24.560 Have a great weekend. Stay safe everyone. This is Bloomberg