WEBVTT - Final 4 Breakdown & NEW San Francisco HC Chris Gerlufsen on Replacing Todd Golden, Whirlwind Post-Tourney Hiring 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:09.840 Hey what, I'm welcome and I'm Doug Gottlieb and this 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:12.920 is all ball. I think you're gonna love this one 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:15.680 because as we get ready for the Final four, we're 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:17.440 gonna be pupping these out a little bit more often 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.040 as we've done. And uh, we we have great feedback 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:24.720 on it. Chris Garlison is the new head coach of 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:29.800 the San Francisco Don's new head coach. But um, we'll 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.440 wait to hear about his first job where he was 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:37.600 a grad assistant and he was working in a liquor 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:39.839 store at night. All right, that's upcoming that that's a 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.600 tease in the business. Reminded. The Doug Gotlib Show is 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.479 daily three to six Eastern, twelve to three Pacific on 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:48.720 the I Heart Radio app on Fox Sports Radio dot com. 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.240 All right, let me get to this. The final four 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:53.440 is set, and I want to make sure that that 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:58.279 what's pointed out is, Yes, players are important. Okay, no 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.000 one's ever done it without players. On the other hand, 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:06.679 there's a reason that these four coaches have been so 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.800 incredibly successful. Bill selfs won like twenty Big twelve titles 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:15.440 in a national championship. You know. Um, in the New 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.039 Big East Jay Wright has been the Kansas of the 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.720 New Big East, plus he's won two national championships. Hubert 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:26.240 Davis is only his first year, but people laughed at 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:29.000 me when I said he would be the next head coach. 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:33.959 I I didn't know what what happens with Hubert is 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:39.120 He's such a nice, genuine, thoughtful human being that there 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.080 is this thought like man that guy can't recruit like 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:42.880 to recruit you gotta be kind of you kind of 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:45.680 gotta have a little diabolical used car salesman side to it. 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:48.320 But I don't know. I think people are seeing what 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.840 a wonderful human being he is now, thoughtful and generous 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.120 he is with his commentary, Like I don't know, he's 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.480 a good dude. It's still Carolina. Why wouldn't you go 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:00.120 that that aside? Then you got Duke and what ever 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.480 you want to say about Duke and people's love for 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.760 them or hate for them. You know, the guys won't 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.000 this many titles and me into that many final fours 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.359 and one over basketball games because they have good players 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:15.240 and he's a really really good coach, and they played 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:19.040 really really hard. So I do want to point this 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:23.400 out made in look Nova and their culture is remarkable. 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:26.720 I thought what Bill self did and changing the matchups 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:28.440 at halftime felt like he used the first half to 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.560 kind of feel things out, and you put your point 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:37.239 guard on Kim mcgusty, and that kind of ends that. 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:41.920 Due kind of ended that like he only played uh, 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.640 you know, he only played his big guy what five 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.000 minutes of the second half, but they got of the ball, right, 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:50.320 that's the difference, Like we're gonna go get Dave McCormick 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.520 the basketball while he's in the game, and then he 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:57.320 kind of took over and dominated. Um So I thought 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.919 that that was the best adjustment. I thought the cold 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.560 true Villa Manova. I mean, even when Justin Moore gets hurt, 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.160 how they're not celebrating there with him for a long 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:09.519 like that. That team, that group, that program is special. 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:12.600 Like I don't know how many people get to see 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.400 a closed villainval practice like I did. Really this year 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:17.280 I talked about in a pod be where they played 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.160 U cil A. But you just you feel like this 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:22.760 is what it's supposed to be, Like, you know, players executing, 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:27.560 motivating each other, and there's nothing. I mean, look, they 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:29.840 do invert they their guards can post their bigges can 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:33.160 shoot their incredibly tough minded defensively, that's not a great 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.760 that's not a talented team as their national championship teams, 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.240 but it's still a hell of a team in um. 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:41.839 And then you have what Duke did against Texas Tech, 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:44.560 where they didn't miss a shot from the field over 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:46.960 the last eight fifty to go. It just feels like 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:49.360 kind of meant to beat, didn't it. And then the 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.920 improvement in North Carolina, the drubbing of St. Peter's, to me, 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.240 was signified that Hubert had them ready to play, and 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.240 that because they they had beaten Kentucky, they had beaten Purdue, 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.120 you had the respect of North Carolina. And then once 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.440 you that's how that's how they would win games. You 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.280 didn't respect him. They stretch you out, they hit some shots, 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.320 you get behind, you get tight, and they beat you. 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.080 And they played with toughness and great pois. But they 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.719 just weren't good enough to be North Carolina. That's it anyway, 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.919 all right, Let's get to your first job as a 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:22.200 head coach. How did you get it? How about on 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:26.400 an hour and a half plane ride during which the 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.680 current head coach told the athletic director he was leaving 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.400 and then in a speed dating sort of way, you 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:37.080 get hired. Here's why I sit down with the new 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:44.520 head coach at the San Francisco Dons, Chris Girlson. Um, okay, 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:48.320 let's let's start. Your dad was a coach. What was 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:53.320 what was life like in your household growing up? Um, 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.960 that's a great question. I was kind of indoctrinated into 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:00.400 the into the game from before I even remember, you know, 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:04.400 I was rolling around the floor in diapers, and um, 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:07.400 I really had no choice, you know. Um, it was 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.320 just something that from as long as I can remember, 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.479 I've been in the gym, and um, it was just 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:17.080 kind of in my blood. And uh, I never expected 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:19.880 or had any desire to do anything else but be 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:25.280 involved with basketball and the coach. Um. And I'm super 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:30.000 thankful for for kind of what my childhood looked like, um, 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.279 and for having the experience just to be around the 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:35.320 game at such an early age. What what was he like? 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.919 What's his like? You know? My dad was, Uh, he 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:42.280 was a little bit of an older soul, right even 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.760 though he's born in nineteen forty, Like, he listened to 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.320 big band music and then you know, as a basketball coach, 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.040 he was me he literally played. He was a JV 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:54.600 player when Bob Knight was a varsity player, and grew 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.200 up going as a coach, going to his clinics and 0:05:57.200 --> 0:05:59.000 taking notes, and I think it's a I mean, that 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:02.120 was the that was the guy who was emulated. What 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.120 was your dad like? Yeah, no, I mean, first off, 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:07.440 before I answer that, I have some great memories of 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.599 your dad, Um, from when even when I was an 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:15.479 assistant at the University of Hartford. Um, your dad was 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.600 amazing to me in terms of just he was relentless 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.200 in terms of calling and next thing, you know, you're 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.280 on the phone with three or four recruits and let 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:26.240 me put you on. Let me put you on the 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:28.359 phone with something. Hold on, Hold on one second, hold on, 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:30.080 what's the next thing? I know? I'm talking to a 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.440 kid and his parents, And Um, those are some great 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.520 memories though. Your dad he was he was an unbelievable guy, 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:38.839 and I know he helped so many kids. So I 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.880 want to just say that, and then, UM, my dad 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:43.920 was probably a little bit of the same, you know, 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.040 I think, Um, you know, it was a different time 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.360 in terms of how you developed as a coach. Um, 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:54.640 I remember going to clinics and Um, you know, driving 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.080 with my dad and my mom at the time, you know, 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.920 across country to five Star. Um, we're going to Notre 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:04.880 Dame camp where Digger Phelps was, Um, you know running camp. 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.040 My dad would take high school kids when he was 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.760 a high school coach, and just those are the kind 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.400 of things that I remember, and UM, I think it, 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.040 you know, just put with the value of just working 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:18.400 and kind of grinding it out, you know, to go. 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:20.800 My dad started as a high school coach and and 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:23.640 and all the way up to a Division one head coach. 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.240 So I've kind of seen it from all angles. Um, 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:29.640 and I think it's kind of made me in terms 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:33.679 of what I am now. I don't think there's any doubt. Um. Okay, 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:37.120 So why did you go to Randolph Making. I went 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.600 to Randolph Making. Um for a couple of different reasons. 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.440 First one being, you know, I knew that I wanted 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.040 to coach, and I wanted to be around a guy 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:48.640 who you know, have won a lot of games and 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:52.000 was respected and could maybe help me, you know, break 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.280 into that that realm Um. You know, when I was 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:57.600 done playing and and you know I had a chance 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:00.760 to play for a guy named how nunnally. Who Um, 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:04.160 when you talk about old school and and um doing 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:07.440 things a certain way. Um, he was certainly cut out 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.520 of that mode. And UM, you know, I think there's 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:14.080 no no kind of um Joe in terms of why 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:17.120 so many people from from his program that had a 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:21.160 chance to play for him went on and or successful coaches. Um, 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:24.160 we have a really good kind of network of guys 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.160 who have gone on to to coach at the Division 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:29.560 one level. And UM, you know, I think it's because 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.720 of the kind of the stuff that that he instilled 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:33.640 and how he ran in his program. So it was that. 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.040 And then you know, there were just some some guys 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.439 from the Philadelphia area that I knew that I had 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.920 played against, um, you know in high school, that were 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.280 down at the school and they kind of recruited me, 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.560 and I just felt comfortable, you know, and and you know, 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:50.480 I knew I wanted to coach and I want to 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.439 be around the right type of people people to do that. Um. Okay, 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:58.920 So what was your playing career like? Um, I probably 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:01.440 was a lot better in my mind than I was 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.880 as as a player. Uh. Um, But no, I think 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:08.160 I had a chance to be you know, on some 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.960 some pretty Dawn good Division three teams that you know 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:16.120 made the the Division three tournament a few times, and um, 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.240 I was I was, you know, probably similar to you. 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:23.960 Extremely and I still am to this day, like ultraly competitive. 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:26.960 And I think that allowed me to probably be and 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.400 perform um, you know, better than what my actual skill 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:32.760 level was or what my talent was. I was just 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.440 super super competitive. Uh. And I think I was a 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:40.280 you know, a great teammate. I was a point guard, um. 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.000 And and just loved like being in the fight with 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:46.280 with my team and winning, you know, and whatever it 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.199 took to win, That's what I was willing to do. Uh. 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:53.240 And I just love being around the game. What what 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:56.319 what is that like that that's legit school as well, 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.640 right like and there's no scholarships, Like what what what 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:03.240 is that experience like in comparison to now, you know, 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:05.600 you're a head coach at a high level Division one 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:07.280 school coming up an n c A tournament. What what's 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:09.800 that Division three like of going to the n c 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.559 A tournament. I Mean, I think that people who are 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:16.079 involved with basketball at that level are involved with it 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:19.400 for all the right reasons. You know, you play it 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.280 or you coach it. Because you love it. Um. And 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:25.120 as you said, there there is no scholarships, there is 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:28.719 no um you know, n I l deals, there's no 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:32.040 there's no you know, you know, hanging a carrot over 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:35.080 anyone's head. Um in that sense, and I think it's 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.520 the truest sense of the game because you're you're doing it, 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:40.480 as I said, because you love it and you just 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.720 you love being around the game. And UM. So in 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.679 that sense, I think I could take a lot, um, 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:48.760 you know, a lot out of my experiences there, and 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:53.400 it really teaches you to appreciate and value, um all 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.400 the things is you kind of move up the ladder 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:01.679 so you get done playing and you know, um, well, 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.160 you had other guys at that level who have said, hey, 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.120 I had a job on Wall Street, I had this 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.440 job and that job you decided to go into like 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:15.599 a no paying coaching job, right, yep, yeah, I I 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:19.000 mean my first job paid. It wasn't no paying, but 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:22.559 it certainly felt like that. I made fifteen hundred dollars 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:26.400 I think my first year. UM. And it was at 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:31.520 another Division three school called Washington Washington College in Chestertown, Maryland, 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.319 which is like in the middle of nowhere. UM. And 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.520 I absolutely loved it. I like lived above an old 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:42.080 antique store in this like nasty old house. I worked 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:44.960 in a liquor store at night to try to, you know, 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.680 just so I could survive. Um. And I probably ran 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.840 up a lot of credit card debt that first year. Um, 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.439 but if you worked, you worked, you you worked in 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.960 a liquor store. I did. I did at night. Um. 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:03.079 You know, luckily, you know, the summer before I started 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.440 Washington College, I kind of worked basketball camps and I 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.640 worked in the liquor store at night. Just I was 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.320 trying to just you know, make as much money as 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:16.040 I could, um, so I could just survive, you know, 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.200 once I got down there, and um, you know, I 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:21.880 probably ate not not the best that first year, but 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:25.000 I was just so happy and so grateful to be 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:27.280 able to say that I was a college basketball coach, 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.480 you know, as a I was a g a. But um, 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.800 I really just kind of jumped head first in and 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.200 got a chance to really experience what it was like. 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:40.080 And I thought I knew a lot and I knew nothing. Um, 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:44.000 you know, so I'm just I'm I'm super thoughtful and 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.839 super grateful just for all the stops that I've had 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.800 because I think it's really kind of just again allowed 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.160 me to progress and do it the right way and 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:56.120 learn not skip steps. So so what who was the 0:12:56.120 --> 0:13:00.480 head coach there? His name was Tom Finnegan. Okay, so 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:02.640 what did you learn from thinking? What? What was you 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.320 said that you you thought you new stuff? We all do? Right? 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.800 You get done playing? Like my dad was a coach, 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.880 I played, I know all this ship, right, What would 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.960 you learn? I think just you know how much actually 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:18.839 goes into and this has kind of been at all 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.560 my stuffs, but just what the details of everything look 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.040 like in terms of running a program, you know, from 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.680 top to bottom. Um. You know, probably as a player, 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.880 you you think that you know, you just show up 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.680 and you go into gym coaches there for practice and um, 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:36.959 you know they prepare you for the games. But there 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:40.400 there's so much more that goes into running a program. 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.520 And you know, I learned, you know, probably in that 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.199 first year. You know what it meant to kind of 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.200 just get out on the road and recruit, uh and 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.800 just try to turn over as many names as you could, 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.880 and what it meant to to build relationships with with 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.880 recruits and players in your own program. Um, and again 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:02.880 I can kind of remember it like it's yesterday. But um, 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:06.240 you know again, all these experiences, I'm just super you know, 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.600 thankful for having you know, gone through. It wasn't easy, 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.360 but it was it was it was fun. At the 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:16.560 same time, Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.280 lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.720 Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:26.800 Radio app search f s R to listen live. Okay, 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:31.400 so you do that for a year and then what uh? 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:35.160 And then a guy who had been an assistant coach 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:39.080 Randolph Making while he was there, had gotten a head 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:43.360 coaching job at Southwestern University, which is in Georgetown, Texas. 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:45.360 And he kind of called me out of the blue 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.840 and said, Hey, I just got a head coaching job. 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.520 I know you've only been into a year, but I'd 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.320 love for you to come out here and be my assistant. Um, 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.480 and I'm not lying. I had never stepped foot in 0:14:57.520 --> 0:14:59.800 the state of Texas, being the East Coast guy, and 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.040 I loaded up a U haul drove however many hours 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:08.040 that was twenty hours um or more. Um, you know, 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.080 the Austin Texas And I was there for two years 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.360 in a state that to this day has you know, 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:16.840 provided a lot of good players to me no matter 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.120 where I've been. Um. So just again, it was like 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.240 one of those experiences that you don't know what it's 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:24.720 gonna lead to, but it was. It was great for 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:29.360 me to kind of get out of my comfort zone. Um, okay, 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.280 what was what was that experience like coaching there? Um, 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.320 it was great. I mean I think I you know, again, 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.160 when you're an assistant coach at a Division three school 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:41.760 and it's just you and the head coach, You're you're 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:46.800 indoctrinated into everything. Um that goes into kind of trying 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.720 to make a program successful, you know, from a recruiting 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.760 standpoint to a game prep to just managing the guys 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:57.920 on the team. Um, you know, washing uniforms, sweeping floor, 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.200 I mean you're doing everything. Uh. So again I think 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.720 it just kind of taught me and showed me exactly, 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.120 um that there's no job too small number one, and 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.440 in uh just kind of what it meant, um, you know, 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:13.600 to be in the fight and have a chance to 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.640 do a little bit of everything. So um, I thought 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:19.640 also for for being in the state of Texas, it 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:23.640 established some recruiting ties at you and that I've taken 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:25.600 with me no matter where I've been, and it's a 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.640 it's a hell of a state to recruit, uh, with 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:32.080 so much talent um up and down. So again, it 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:36.320 was just a really good experience for me. Um, okay, 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.239 so now we you know you've been at that Southwestern 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.360 and then he went to the Citadel, which is um 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.440 military school. Was Ed Conroy there when you're there? Ed 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:49.080 Conroy actually came right after I left. But I'm actually, 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.400 you know, closer Ed Conroy and have all the respect 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:54.360 in the world for him. He did a heck of 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.000 a job while he was there, but he was there 0:16:56.040 --> 0:17:00.520 after me. What was what? What's what's the experience like 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:04.280 a recruiting to a military school? Yeah, I know you're 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:05.800 g a. I know it was really early on, but 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:09.520 you're still you're putting together? What what is that like? Yeah? 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.440 You know. So funny thing is, you know I went 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:17.840 there with with really no expectation other than um, you know, 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:21.040 I was trying to break into Division one. UM. I 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.480 had a chance to work for a guy named Pat Dennis, 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:27.880 who had been an assistant under Dick Tarrant at Richmond 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:29.720 when they had made a run in the n C 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.360 double A tournament upset. I think they upset Syracuse, Syracuse, Yes, 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.640 you know. Um. And so he was a guy who 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.320 came from like a really good coaching tree, um, and 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:42.560 he had he had one. You know, it's hard to 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:44.919 win at a military school, and he had done relatively 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:48.840 well there. So I just wanted to break into Division one. 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:51.439 I didn't care where it was. And um, you know, 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.800 I had established a relationship with him, and and you know, 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:58.240 he took a chance on me. Um. And so going 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:02.160 to the Citadel it was. I wouldn't change anything about 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.040 it in terms of what the experience was like because um, 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:07.760 you know, I was a g a that first year, 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:10.240 but I got thrust into a recruiting role I think 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.920 in the spring after you know, going there in August, 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.439 so it was relatively quick. Um. And and that's the 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:20.640 place that I really learned what it meant to from 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.840 a recruiting standpoint of just what it means is just 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.560 turnover names and kind of be relentless, uh in your 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:31.200 research and you're digging on kids because military school isn't 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.640 it for everybody, you know? And and I think being 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.960 there really made me understand what it meant to kind 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:42.960 of established meaningful relationships with recruits. UM, because that's a 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.600 place where if you do not have that, you know, 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.960 it's a good chance that kids aren't gonna last. Um. 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.320 You know. So I think from that standpoint, it really 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:54.800 showed me what it meant, uh, from a recruiting standpoint, 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.720 what you need to do to be successful. Why do 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:01.720 you get to Hartford? I went to Hartford because, Um, 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:06.080 Dan Liebovitz, who now the Assistant Commissioner of the SEC, 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.640 had gotten the job. Um, and being a Philly guy, 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.639 he was putting together his staff, and uh, John Gallagher, 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.239 who I grew up with, played with, um, you know, 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:21.960 since we've known each other since we were ten years old. Um. 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.080 You know, he he called me and said, hey, look, 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.359 I don't know if you're interested, but um, you know, 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.480 Dan just got the job here at Hartford. UM, we'd 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:31.600 love for you to join the staff. And you know, 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:33.840 I just looked at it as a chance to get 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:37.239 back into the Northeast, um, you know, and be with 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.600 people who were from Philadelphia and that I trusted in. 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:44.359 And again it's just another good move that that really 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:48.159 kind of helped formulate who I am. What was that like, 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:51.960 you're there for a long time. And um, and you know, 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.960 Dan got frustrated, I think with with some of the stuff, 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.240 which is you know which Gallagh with with Gallagher obviously 0:19:58.280 --> 0:19:59.880 has seen come to a head even after the turn 0:19:59.880 --> 0:20:02.040 of an imperious last year. What was that experience like 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.480 for you? Um, it was just great again being exposed 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:10.760 to something a little bit different, you know. Um through Dan, UM, 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.040 I got to kind of learn what what the John 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:16.280 Cheney way was, you know, in terms of running a program. 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:18.919 And um, Dan is one of the best humans in 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:21.560 the world. Actually just had dinner with him the other 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:25.080 night when he was here for for Arkansas's run um 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:28.600 in San Francisco. But um, he's a guy who I 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:32.159 learned a lot from just from a human element, you know, 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:35.160 what it means to treat people the right way. UM. 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:38.399 But also you know, I mean he should write a 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.119 book on on and I think he is in the 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.760 midst of doing that, just on John Cheney. And and 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:46.920 you know, learning his one three one what he calls 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.639 a Rover defense. Those are things that that you know, 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.160 I'm excited to put a little spin on stuff here. 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:55.399 There's some things from him that I'll take, um, So 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:57.560 from from him, I learned a lot. And that was 0:20:57.600 --> 0:20:59.880 his first, you know, head coaching job, and I think 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.119 looking back on it, he probably do a few things different. 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.480 And he talks about that now, UM, but can't say 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.360 enough about him as a as a person and what 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.600 he means to me. UM. And then you know I 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:16.520 stayed there when when Dan decided to leave, I stayed in. Um. 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:20.080 You know, his associate head coach for for Gal and 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.720 from Gal was kind of completely the opposite. Gal is 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:28.080 is UM super offensive driven. UM. He has a unique 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:30.760 way of looking at the game from an offensive standpoint. 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:33.840 And UM, you know those are things that that I'm 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:36.680 really grateful for because you know, having a chance to 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:39.640