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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg ihod podcast, and

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Speaker 1: I'm Baldana hirech in today for Stacy Marie Ishmael. It's Thursday,

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Speaker 1: March second. Most crypto enthusiasts pride themselves on being tech visionaries.

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Speaker 1: After all, they were among the first to back innovative

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Speaker 1: blockchain technologies and embraced things like web three and NFTs.

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Speaker 1: But now there's a new innovation that's captured the public

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Speaker 1: imagination and it's getting a ton of buzz in the

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Speaker 1: crypto world as well. You guessed it, it's chat GPT.

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Speaker 1: Late last year, Open AI's new chatbots parked a conversation

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Speaker 1: about the future of artificial intelligence. People on the Internet

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Speaker 1: were going crazy about its ability to craft human like responses,

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Speaker 1: and even ace an exam from Wharton. Ever since, AI

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Speaker 1: linked crypto tokens have been on a rapid rise. At

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Speaker 1: one point in early February, tokens from decentralized AI companies

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Speaker 1: like Singularity Net and Singularity dial soared over the span

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Speaker 1: of just a couple of dates. But as the fervor grows,

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Speaker 1: so do the concerns, and some industry insiders are warning

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Speaker 1: investors against being too bullish. So what exactly are AI

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Speaker 1: tokens and how can they shape the industry? Bloomberg reporter

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Speaker 1: Hannah Miller joins us now to discuss Hannah, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show. Yeah, thank you for having me. I was

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Speaker 1: hoping we would just start out with you laying out

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Speaker 1: for us what exactly an AI crypto token even is. Well,

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Speaker 1: to be frank here, I think we're still figuring out

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Speaker 1: what exactly the definition of a crypto AI token is.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a very new space, a very nascent space,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's going to be really interesting to

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Speaker 1: see how crypto and AI intersect. But right now, the

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Speaker 1: way I'm thinking of it is that these crypto AI

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Speaker 1: tokens belong to a project that uses both blockchain and

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Speaker 1: artificial intelligence in some way. So there's this really cool

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Speaker 1: project called the Graph. They've been around for years, but

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Speaker 1: we've seen a lot of interest in their token rise

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Speaker 1: because they do have this connection to AI. They're looking

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Speaker 1: into using artificial intelligence to make it easier to search

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Speaker 1: and organize blockchain data. So it's the idea that people

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Speaker 1: are taking advantage of this new trend and trying to

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Speaker 1: build out tokens or projects around it. Yeah. I mean

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Speaker 1: within the tech industry, people are always looking for what

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Speaker 1: the next big thing is. So I feel like over

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Speaker 1: the past two years or so, it was crypto. Everything

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Speaker 1: was about blockchain. You had crypto startups raising money at

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Speaker 1: huge valuations, you had the price of bitcoin soaring. All

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Speaker 1: of that has changed within the past year, and now

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Speaker 1: people are kind of moving on to the next thing.

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Speaker 1: So I feel like within crypto, a lot of projects

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Speaker 1: are kind of maybe trying to seize upon an association

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Speaker 1: with AI in order to stay relevant, and they want

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Speaker 1: to use AI and kind of climb on top of

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Speaker 1: that hype that is surrounding artificial intelligence and integrate it

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Speaker 1: into their own crypto and blockchain projects. And that's really

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Speaker 1: what it comes down to. So frequently with a lot

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Speaker 1: of things within crypto is just trying to build up

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Speaker 1: hyperound different things. I know, I've spent a bunch of

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Speaker 1: time on different crypto researcher websites who sort of create

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Speaker 1: lists of some of these AI tokens, and I'm just

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Speaker 1: looking at all of their prices and I remember in

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Speaker 1: early February some of them are up like two hundred

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Speaker 1: three hundred percent, So maybe can you tell us about

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Speaker 1: how crypto enthusiasts, maybe small time crypto investors have been

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Speaker 1: responding to these new tokens. Yeah, so I think they

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Speaker 1: kind of see artificial intelligence as a lifeline. You know,

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Speaker 1: this is the new fad. Everyone's excited about chat, GBT,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is dominating headlines the broader tech industries

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Speaker 1: in the middle of a slowdown. It's not just crypto.

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Speaker 1: I think with AI, it's kind of seen as sort

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Speaker 1: of a revival of interest and investing in tech despite

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Speaker 1: you know, market downturns. So with these new projects, I

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Speaker 1: think people are looking for opportunities where crypto and AI

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Speaker 1: can be used in gaming, cyber security, decentralized finance, you know,

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Speaker 1: areas that are hot within crypto but definitely have room

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Speaker 1: for improvement, and they're sort of seeing AI as a

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Speaker 1: way to do that. I know nothing about how this

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Speaker 1: is happening in the gaming world or the metaverse world,

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Speaker 1: so anything you can tell us anything colorful about this

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Speaker 1: would be very interesting. So yeah, I think with gaming,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's always like a fun area that

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Speaker 1: I love to talk about. It's been really interesting to

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Speaker 1: see sort of this combination of the three biggest buzzwords

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Speaker 1: in recent memory, which is Crypto, AI and the Metaverse.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think with a lot of these terms,

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Speaker 1: like like I said, we're still trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: like what exactly the metaverse is and what actually what

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Speaker 1: actually is the definition of this term, because I feel

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Speaker 1: like so many different companies and projects have thrown out

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Speaker 1: their vone versions of the metaverse. But with using AI,

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Speaker 1: the Metaverse, and Crypto, we've seen eight different companies combine

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Speaker 1: in these three different areas to form a single entity

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Speaker 1: called future Verse. So that happened in December, and I

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Speaker 1: thought that was really interesting because it shows, you know,

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Speaker 1: they have these high ambitions their combining efforts. Some of

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Speaker 1: these projects have been around for a while and you know,

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Speaker 1: are teaming up and basically they want to create this

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Speaker 1: virtual world that uses both blockchain and artificial intelligence. And

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Speaker 1: I think they're still you know, kind of figuring out

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Speaker 1: what exactly that means. A different project, So this is

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Speaker 1: a pretty big name in cryptogaming, a mutable X. They're

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Speaker 1: you know, big in blockchain gaming development. They are actually

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Speaker 1: using AI to or looking into using AI to design

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Speaker 1: in game graphics, Like they're pulling stuff from you know,

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Speaker 1: online from virtual worlds and kind of using that to

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Speaker 1: design what the imagery of a virtual world in a

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Speaker 1: game would look like. So it's it's pretty cool to see.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's already some big, big names hopping on

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Speaker 1: the crypto AI bandwagon. So there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who have high hopes for you know, this intersection

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Speaker 1: of crypto AI and think that it's it's more than hype.

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Speaker 1: I like what actually our producer put together for us

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Speaker 1: for the outline for this episode, she said, crypto is tired,

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Speaker 1: AI is wired. I think that encapsulates it maybe best

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Speaker 1: in terms of just some of the excitement around this.

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Speaker 1: Tell us how people are actually responding to some of

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Speaker 1: these projects, or even from like an investor standpoint, what

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Speaker 1: are when you're talking to people, are they thinking that

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Speaker 1: this is a fad, this is something that's going to

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Speaker 1: be very short lived, or does it maybe have more

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Speaker 1: sticking power. No. When I talk to people, they're very

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Speaker 1: excited about and AI combining. Yeah, and I actually have

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Speaker 1: you know, talk to firms they're looking into hiring people

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Speaker 1: who you know, have more of a background in AI

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Speaker 1: and can sort of bring that expertise even if the

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Speaker 1: firm is crypto native to begin with UM. I've also

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Speaker 1: just been getting you know, pitches in my own inbox

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Speaker 1: on you know, new projects that use AI, and I

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Speaker 1: see these these terms come up, you know, like machine

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Speaker 1: learning and you oh, they have this model. You know,

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Speaker 1: It's it's been very fun to see UM these emails

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Speaker 1: come up because some of these projects, I think they're

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Speaker 1: they're very new, they're just starting out, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's still early days, but there's definitely a lot

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Speaker 1: of excitement here. I've been thinking a lot about the

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Speaker 1: Portlandia episode where they have the skit where it's like

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Speaker 1: put a bird on it and it's just like a

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Speaker 1: shop that puts like a little bird. Yes, And I've

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Speaker 1: been thinking out about this in terms of like put

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Speaker 1: AI on it. You know, people just want to slap

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Speaker 1: on an AI label in order to drum up interest

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Speaker 1: because it is so hot right now. It definitely people

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Speaker 1: I talk to are excited about it and have high

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Speaker 1: hopes and see AIS maybe a way to to push

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Speaker 1: crypto forward, you know, to move beyond scandals like the

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Speaker 1: collapse of FTX, the implosion of three Hours Capital. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're seeing AI as a way that can still keep

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Speaker 1: crypto relevant and on people's minds despite declining coin prices. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what about the AI tokens themselves? I even have asked

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people about this. You know, people who

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Speaker 1: pay attention to the market very closely, do they have

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Speaker 1: warning signs or do they sort of see an AI

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Speaker 1: token as an extremely speculative investment, something that can rally

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Speaker 1: three over a couple of days and then crash, you know,

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Speaker 1: just as much over the next, you know, the following days.

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Speaker 1: Is that the sense from investors within the space or

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Speaker 1: people who are watching the space that maybe people should

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Speaker 1: be very careful about investing in these tokens. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: think the people I speak to you they do pretty

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Speaker 1: intense to research. I mean, these eventual capitalists who you know,

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Speaker 1: want to make sure that they are making a good bet.

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Speaker 1: It's obvious that for just some retail investors, they do

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Speaker 1: necessarily do the do their research. You know. One example,

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Speaker 1: coin Base has announced the launch of its you know,

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Speaker 1: new blockchain, it's new Base blockchain, and you saw prices

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Speaker 1: of tokens that were called like Base, even though these

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Speaker 1: were tokens that had nothing to do with the coin

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Speaker 1: Base blockchain. You saw these prices sore you know on

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Speaker 1: this announcement, if you if you did your own research,

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Speaker 1: you would figure out that there's no association here between

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Speaker 1: these base tokens and what coinbase is doing. So it's

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Speaker 1: things like that that you know, the industry is going

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Speaker 1: to have to grapple with. The fact of the matter

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Speaker 1: is it's like there's still such volatility within crypto. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be hard to sort of cut through

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Speaker 1: the noise when you have all these different projects coming up,

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Speaker 1: you know, claiming to use AI and that they have

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Speaker 1: this token or that token. Yeah, it would be interesting

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Speaker 1: to see what happens up next. More with Bloomberg reporter

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Speaker 1: Hannah Miller on how AI tokens are the new buzz

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Speaker 1: in crypto. We'll be right back. Well, you and I

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Speaker 1: are on the same wave length, because I wanted to

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Speaker 1: ask you about the base the stuff that's happening with

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Speaker 1: coin base and the base tokens, where it does seem

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Speaker 1: like maybe sometimes some of these things pop up because

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Speaker 1: people know or inherently understand that you need new people

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Speaker 1: and new investors coming into the market. Is that the

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Speaker 1: sense is that sort of the right idea behind this? Yeah, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I think so, you know, that people want fresh blood

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Speaker 1: in the industry. There's still is always going to be

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Speaker 1: the battle to get crypto to be more mainstream, to

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Speaker 1: onboard you know, your average consumer into the space. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think maybe some projects, some investors believe like, Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: it's good that people are buying up these tokens, even

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Speaker 1: if you know, maybe the use case isn't clear or

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Speaker 1: maybe they're a little sketchy, because it shows that there's

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Speaker 1: still interest in the space. But people still want to

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Speaker 1: take advantage of blockchain and you know, want their own

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Speaker 1: piece of the pie and believe that you know, the

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Speaker 1: prices of these tokens are going to go up. So

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Speaker 1: I do think this does help drive bullishness. But again

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Speaker 1: there is a cost here. It's like, what if these

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Speaker 1: projects turn out to be a rug pull or you know,

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Speaker 1: just something really fake and stupid, and you know, then

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Speaker 1: you have people left in the lurch. So even though

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Speaker 1: there is this rising popularity, you know, there is still

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Speaker 1: this threat that people are going to fall victim to

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Speaker 1: scams and things like that. And it's also you know,

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Speaker 1: going to bring greater regulatory attention. We're still we still

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Speaker 1: have a very unclear cryptoregulatory landscape, and you know, these

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Speaker 1: kinds of scenarios where people are buying up to oakens

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Speaker 1: and then get screwed over. You know, that's just fodder

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Speaker 1: for regulators to kind of step in and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: this keeps happening in the industry. We've already had all

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Speaker 1: this other stuff happen, you know, we need to crack down.

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Speaker 1: What about thinking very far ahead, like, you know, not

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Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks, but just in terms of

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Speaker 1: thinking about the future. What could AI technology do you

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Speaker 1: think mean for the future of the crypto industry. Look,

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Speaker 1: if they can use artificial intelligence effectively with blockchain, I

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Speaker 1: think it would be a big deal. You know, AI

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Speaker 1: I think is going to continue to gain traction, you know,

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Speaker 1: over the next few years. And whether that'll help bring

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Speaker 1: about a renaissance for crypto, you know, I think I

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Speaker 1: think that's a distinct possibility. But this is it's still

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Speaker 1: very like both these industries are still very niscent. People

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Speaker 1: are still figuring out what the best use cases are

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Speaker 1: for blockchain. You know, I was talking with a you know,

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Speaker 1: crypto executive the other day, you know who was saying

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Speaker 1: that the best news case for blockchain clearly isn't going

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Speaker 1: to be in finance because of these regulatory hurdles. It's

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Speaker 1: going to be in culture. You know, it's going to

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Speaker 1: be in game, it's going to be in music, it's

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Speaker 1: going to be an art, it's gonna be an NFTs.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it's kind of hard to tell again,

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Speaker 1: like what the best use case for blockchain is going

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Speaker 1: to be. But if AI can help people figure that out, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a huge asset. Do you want to know

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Speaker 1: a secret? Yes? I had chat gpt right out all

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Speaker 1: of the questions I was going to ask you on

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Speaker 1: this podcast. I'm just kidding. You're killing me. Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: As long as as long as the chatpod doesn't fall

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Speaker 1: in love with you, you're good. Oh my gosh, I

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Speaker 1: saw that story. Yeah, I don't. I do not want

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Speaker 1: to fall in love with me. Thank you, but thank

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Speaker 1: you head us so much for joining us on the

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Speaker 1: podcast today. No, thank you for having me. That was

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg reporter Hannah Miller. You can find more of her

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Speaker 1: reporting on the Bloomberg terminal in a Bloomberg dot com.

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Speaker 1: For more, be sure to check out our twice weekly newsletter,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Crypto. This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from

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Speaker 1: Send us your comments, questions, or suggestions for the show

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Speaker 1: to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergelina. Our senior producer is Janet Babin.

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Speaker 1: Our producers are Mohammed Faroup and Sharon Barrero. Our associate

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Speaker 1: producers are Ty Butler and Moses on Them. Desta wonder

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Speaker 1: Ad is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidron. I'm

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Speaker 1: Stacy Marishmo. We'll be back tomorrow as them About the

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Speaker 1: A and the N in the D