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Speaker 1: You can watch the original episode we'll be discussing in

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Speaker 1: every other episode of HBO's Curby Your Enthusiasm, including the

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Speaker 1: new and final season, on Max.

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Speaker 2: You can also watch.

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Speaker 1: The video version of the history of Curby Your Enthusiasm

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Speaker 1: podcast on Max and YouTube as well.

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Speaker 2: Links available in the episode description.

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Speaker 1: We are here with Alan's wide bell and Alan do

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Speaker 1: I have to give his credits?

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Speaker 2: He's legendary from Snlry.

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Speaker 3: Sanders from the first season.

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Speaker 1: Friend and how many seasons were you a consulting producer

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Speaker 1: on Curb Season two and three?

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Speaker 4: Two?

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Speaker 3: I think years two and three sort of unofficially the

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Speaker 3: first year, and then I think Larry felt sort of

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Speaker 3: guilty about coming into my office, lying on the couch

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Speaker 3: telling me what he was thinking. So it was for

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Speaker 3: credit years too and three.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, as it should be. He's using you for God's sake.

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Speaker 3: You know something he rained me, Dry.

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Speaker 2: What do you remember about the about those sessions?

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Speaker 3: What I remember mostly is as I've been doing my

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Speaker 3: whole professional life is watching Larry think, and I'm very

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Speaker 3: serious about it. We shared a suite of offices, Billy, Crystal,

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Speaker 3: Larry and I. Jeff. You remember because we wrote a

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Speaker 3: pilot during that time for CBS, which for you folks

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Speaker 3: in New York is Channel two, and Jeff would come

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Speaker 3: to my office and it was we'd work on this

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Speaker 3: pilot and Larry was on the other side of the wall.

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Speaker 3: And when Larry would come in the first year, he

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Speaker 3: would lie on the couch and just tell me ideas

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Speaker 3: that he had for character arcs and for plots and whatever.

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Speaker 3: And I think my role was basically sounding board. And

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Speaker 3: I'm quite serious. He wanted another human being to be

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Speaker 3: within earshot out what he was thinking, but also.

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Speaker 1: Another human being who he respected and he knew was

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Speaker 1: really funny and knew what was funny.

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Speaker 4: He trust you in the ways of a lot of level.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't just in the ways of oh no, no, no, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I know. It wasn't this florist or somebody, because we

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Speaker 3: all know Larry's got a whole bevy of florist. No,

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Speaker 3: it wasn't only lending an ear. There was there's a

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Speaker 3: certain amount of navigation, you know what I mean. He

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Speaker 3: would get to a point where he had to make

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Speaker 3: either this decision or that decision. So as the navigator,

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Speaker 3: you basically said, okay, if you do it this way,

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Speaker 3: it's one thing. If you do it that way, it's

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Speaker 3: another thing. So yeah, it wasn't just a total sounding board.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, you know, ever since I

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Speaker 3: met this guy in the clubs in nineteen seventy three,

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Speaker 3: seventy four, he was the guy that we all sat

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Speaker 3: in the back watched him do what he does. You know,

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Speaker 3: all the stories and you just go all right. He

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Speaker 3: looks at the world a little bit different than.

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Speaker 2: Was this dad. You guys actually worked together before, I

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Speaker 2: don't think so.

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Speaker 3: No, not officially. Look, I would send him first drafts

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Speaker 3: of things that I was writing. He had written a

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Speaker 3: screenplay called what was it? Diagnosis Negative? Is something like that?

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Speaker 4: Diagnosis Negative. We used a lot of those storylines from

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Speaker 4: diagnosis or he did for Diagnosis Negative on curb.

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Speaker 2: This is all new to me. I didn't know this.

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Speaker 3: See so, Jeff, you know what I'm saying. I mean,

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Speaker 3: Larry's life, nothing nothing, whether it was from a screenplay,

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Speaker 3: which was a part in part. I can't you know,

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Speaker 3: we're so many years ago. Everything was up for grabs

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Speaker 3: in terms of putting it on TV. Everything was fodder

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Speaker 3: for that. And I remember even back then, now we

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Speaker 3: was the one that we were worried about Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 3: because he didn't fit into any convention mode. I would

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Speaker 3: sit in the back and laugh my ass or sometimes

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Speaker 3: I was the only one, okay.

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Speaker 1: He even says that back in those days, in the

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Speaker 1: seventies and early eighties, that he used to walk around

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Speaker 1: and find places in New York City that he thought

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Speaker 1: would be a good shelter if he became homeless.

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Speaker 3: I don't doubt that for a second. I know that

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Speaker 3: he was a limo driver for a blind woman. Hold on,

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Speaker 3: limo driver for a blind woman, and she'd say, Larry,

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Speaker 3: are you one of my favorite days. She wanted him

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Speaker 3: to be formal, in a complete limo and she would say, Larry,

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Speaker 3: are you wearing your hat? And of course he wasn't.

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Speaker 4: He said, of course, I'm wearing my hat out of respect,

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Speaker 4: you know, so funny.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly right. And Jeff, he could have taken her

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Speaker 3: anywhere and she would have said so thank you.

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Speaker 2: And almost that did become somewhat of a storyline later.

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Speaker 4: No, No, he used almost the exact same thing for Michael.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the guy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, look, it went all the way back

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Speaker 3: to when we were at the clubs, and then let's say,

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Speaker 3: at the end of the evening, this is the improv

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Speaker 3: in New York and across the other side of Ninth Having,

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Speaker 3: I guess was like a diner kind of place that

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Speaker 3: was open all night. And we would go in there,

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Speaker 3: he and I and whoever else was Richard literally yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: whether there were the contemporaries at the time, about three

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Speaker 3: or four or five of us. We'd shove Elaine Booslet,

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Speaker 3: we would shove into a booth and we would be talking.

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Speaker 3: We all had the little notebooks, you know, where we

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Speaker 3: dried it down ideas, and so if there was something

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Speaker 3: really obvious, you know, we all took out the little

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Speaker 3: notebooks and we go, oh yeah, waitress, that looks like

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Speaker 3: Lee Harvey Oswald. And then we would continue the conversation.

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Speaker 3: But then nothing would happen, nothing out of the ordinary.

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Speaker 3: Larry would take out his little notebook scribble something, and

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Speaker 3: the rest of us are going, what do we miss?

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Speaker 3: What we miss? And that was the way it was.

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Speaker 1: So basically he saw things that other people don't and

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Speaker 1: still does and then throws it back and everybody says.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's right, now I see it.

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Speaker 3: Well, now I see it. And what he also has

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Speaker 3: the ability to do is to take a morsel and

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Speaker 3: make a satyr out of it. Do you know what

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Speaker 3: I'm saying? Some little thing that we notice, but we

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Speaker 3: keep going, but he sticks around for a while, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: By the way I always compare him. The only person

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Speaker 4: I can compare him to is Nat Hiken. Yes, because

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Speaker 4: it starts out, it goes in like those dominoes that

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Speaker 4: used to be on the Tonight show, round and round,

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Speaker 4: round and round. You don't know where it's going, and

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Speaker 4: he's able to wrap it all up in the end.

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Speaker 4: And that's what he did with Car fifty four.

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Speaker 3: Where Are You?

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Speaker 4: And Bilko and With You are two of Larry's favorite shows,

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Speaker 4: and Larry's the only person I know who has the

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Speaker 4: skill level to do that like that.

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Speaker 3: You know, Jeff, I remember back then you making that comparison,

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Speaker 3: and I understood exactly what you were saying, and being

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Speaker 3: familiar with those shows, I went wow, because you had

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Speaker 3: said he's than that Pike in of our generation. And

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Speaker 3: what I found myself marveling at was the craftsmanship. Things

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Speaker 3: that seem innocuous in the first seven minutes end up

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Speaker 3: playing a big part. No idea, you know, And so

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Speaker 3: I find myself to this day when I'm watching Curb,

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Speaker 3: I'm going, all right, that's almost like a throwaway. I

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Speaker 3: wonder if we're going to see that again, and invariably

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Speaker 3: we do.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't think there are any throwaways that

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Speaker 1: don't come back. Maybe here and there, but generally, if

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Speaker 1: something's a throwaway, it's there for a reason.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, don't you agree.

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Speaker 3: Everything is per Yeah, you're absolutely right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No. I was just wondering, is there anything in particular,

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Speaker 1: storyline wise that you remember about those first few seasons

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Speaker 1: of him running it by you and what your thoughts

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Speaker 1: were about it. Did you think that this will never work,

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Speaker 1: this will work, you know, something like that. I'm just

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Speaker 1: wondering if there's anything like that.

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Speaker 3: I grew very quickly, Susie. I came to realize that

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Speaker 3: nothing was not going to work, that he would find

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Speaker 3: a way to make it work. So when he talks

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Speaker 3: about scalping tickets to get into the high holiday services

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Speaker 3: at a temple or picking up a hooker, you know,

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Speaker 3: so we can go in the express lane to the

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Speaker 3: Dodger game, I'm going, Okay, obviously I laugh at the

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Speaker 3: premise of it, right, but at the same time when

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Speaker 3: you had all the other storylines that came in. Okay,

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Speaker 3: this was going to drive it, but what else would

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Speaker 3: it be? When he went into the lake, you know,

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Speaker 3: during the baptism. You know, sometimes I'd find him working

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Speaker 3: a little bit backwards knowing that he wanted to go

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Speaker 3: into the lake to save the baby during the baptism. Okay,

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Speaker 3: how is he going to get here? You know what

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Speaker 3: I mean? So it was always as a writer that

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Speaker 3: I admired the craftsmanship of making it all make sense

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Speaker 3: within this world that he created. Puzzle you puzzle, It's

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Speaker 3: a puzzle, absolutely, you know, a world that stars this

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Speaker 3: this you know.

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Speaker 2: He said to me the other day.

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Speaker 1: I forgot what scene we were doing, but he said

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Speaker 1: to me, we're in the middle of something completely ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: And he turns to me and said, look at this,

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Speaker 1: this world we're in, this crazy we're.

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Speaker 4: That was in the kitchen when we were filming the

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Speaker 4: scene about your billboard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that was like this world that we've been

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Speaker 1: in for all these years is so crazy and so

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Speaker 1: much fun.

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Speaker 4: But also even though it's crazy, it feels real.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it always feels real, and none of it ever

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Speaker 1: feels false to me. It always feels real, I mean insane,

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Speaker 1: but real.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know something, You're absolutely right. I mean, look

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Speaker 3: the last show, I guess it was of last season

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Speaker 3: when you had the pile of shoes outside of the hall.

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Speaker 4: Yes, who knew where that was going?

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Speaker 3: Igo? All right, he stepped in something. All these shoes please, hey,

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Speaker 3: one are the au people's shoes? And then it ends

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Speaker 3: up Tracy Omens of grandfather or something. Ye.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and she got and she and she loses a

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Speaker 1: sobriety over it because she's so upset. Yes, go ahead,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. No, I mean, it's just so you interconnected.

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Speaker 3: But you hook in. It's like you hang on and

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Speaker 3: you let him take you away.

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Speaker 1: And that's a great example because there's so much in that.

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Speaker 1: The Matt Walsh, you know, touching his penis to him,

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Speaker 1: which makes him step back and step and ship, which

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Speaker 1: makes him have to take his shoe off, which then

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Speaker 1: makes him have to put on the Holocaust shoe. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's there's such a series of events that are a

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Speaker 1: snowball going on there that are just it's that that's

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Speaker 1: the thing of beauty.

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Speaker 3: It's like you said that there are no beats, and

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Speaker 3: there are no moments that don't figure in. Okay, there

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Speaker 3: are no extraneous things where you go, he could have

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Speaker 3: lost that, and no, they all become integral to why ultimately.

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Speaker 1: Does and I think it's more so than ever in

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Speaker 1: that way. You know, Jeff and I have talked about

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Speaker 1: how in the beginning, all the plot lines were much

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Speaker 1: more simplistic, not simplistic, simpler.

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Speaker 4: Well there were seven pages.

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Speaker 2: Long, correct, and now they're about twelve.

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Speaker 4: No, they're in the town sometimes. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so they've gotten much more intricate and involved. And

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Speaker 1: that's a great example of how much more intricate and

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Speaker 1: involved they've gotten.

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Speaker 2: We'll be right back, Stay tuned, and we're back.

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Speaker 3: If you binge watched the show, you can pick up

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Speaker 3: on what used to be a little bit more simplistic,

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Speaker 3: a little bit more streamlined in terms of what the

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Speaker 3: plot was going to be and how things unfolded. The

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Speaker 3: show grew, and it grew, like you just said, in

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Speaker 3: its complexity, yeah, and in how everything became involved as

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Speaker 3: opposed to one or two stories that will take you

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Speaker 3: to the end of it.

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Speaker 1: You know, And the storylines grew. But the beauty is

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Speaker 1: we didn't grow. The characters did not grow. We're the

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Speaker 1: exact same idiots, well, growing and learning on this show,

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Speaker 1: we're the same exact And you know, I get asked

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Speaker 1: that every time I do press for a season, they say,

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Speaker 1: how Susie going to be different this season?

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Speaker 2: Not gonna be different, She's going to be the same.

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Speaker 2: If we're all the same, we don't grow.

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Speaker 1: And learn, We do the same, make the same mistakes

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Speaker 1: over and over and over again.

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Speaker 2: That's comedy.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, Not only is it comedy. You accept it, you

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Speaker 3: don't question it. You just go along for whatever ride

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Speaker 3: you're on right now, you know, But there are certain constants. Obviously, Jeff,

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Speaker 3: your role as his manager and his friend. That to

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Speaker 3: me is something that you would know better than me,

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Speaker 3: the intricacies if there have been any sort of changes

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Speaker 3: in it. But I know as a viewer, you know,

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Speaker 3: I know that. Uh oh, if Larry does something and

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Speaker 3: Susie here's about it, oh, witnesses it, She's going to

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Speaker 3: open her mouth. Okay. The only thing I noticed different

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Speaker 3: last year is you had some hats. I had hats,

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Speaker 3: and the.

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Speaker 4: First one was the best one, and it was the.

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Speaker 1: First episode, the Lincoln hat.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the top hat.

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Speaker 3: Ellen, I'm sitting here with Robin watching it, and she goes,

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Speaker 3: SUSY's wearing a stove pine hat.

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Speaker 4: Okay, let's go from a different angle. Did you have

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Speaker 4: fun playing Duberstein?

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Speaker 2: No, Duckstein.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. What happened was I would bob the Larry the.

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Speaker 2: First that was season eight, I believe, Yeah, New York.

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Speaker 3: Every season when you would go back to production. You know,

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Speaker 3: because I'd watched this show, you know, I go oh

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Speaker 3: u's Phil Rosenthal used this one, he used that one,

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Speaker 3: and going hey, okay, over here hello. So when he

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Speaker 3: came to New York, all of a sudden, out of nowhere,

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Speaker 3: I get this email and he says, I have an idea,

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Speaker 3: and he describes Stockstein and he describes the situation to me.

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Speaker 3: And I knew it from having worked on the show

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Speaker 3: that it wouldn't be really heavy when it came to script.

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Speaker 3: He said to me, here's the situation. You're in New York.

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Speaker 3: I'm in New York. You see me in a restaurant.

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Speaker 3: You suggest we have lunch. I say why, he says

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Speaker 3: to me, you say, because we never have lunch when

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Speaker 3: we're in la He says, let's see where it takes us.

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Speaker 3: So we did it, and god, it was so much fun.

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Speaker 3: Look for me to have somebody not want to watch

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Speaker 3: me eat, this is not a stretch. This anactor. So

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Speaker 3: I suggest lunch and he says the reason we never

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Speaker 3: have lunches in la is because we're not friends. I

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Speaker 3: try to convince him to become my friend. And it

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Speaker 3: just grew and I I realized as we were doing it,

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Speaker 3: and you know, you guys know better than anyone. He

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Speaker 3: did it seven times, eight times, and it was like

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Speaker 3: the hardest thing was not making each other laugh on camera. Okay,

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Speaker 3: it was like every always, it was every phone conversation

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Speaker 3: we had ever had in our lives, and we were

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Speaker 3: surprising each other, which you guys do every single day there.

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Speaker 3: And that show was only one episode. There were three scenes,

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Speaker 3: and I know every time that it's repeated, whether it's

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Speaker 3: you know, leading up to a new season or whenever

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Speaker 3: they have a curb marathon thing, because there will be

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Speaker 3: cab drivers. I swear to God in Manhattan who stopped

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Speaker 3: at a red light, the guy will roll down his

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Speaker 3: window and go, I'll have lunch with you. I know.

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Speaker 3: I know they must have shown last night, you know.

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Speaker 4: No, But I know a lot of people with parts

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Speaker 4: of that size that people remember, you know, Wayne Fetterman.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's Richard kind.

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Speaker 4: Like all these people who've done a lot of stuff,

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Speaker 4: they mostly get recognized from kurb.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well you could imagine what my life's amazing to me,

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Speaker 1: what a testimony it is to your show.

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Speaker 3: And you're absolutely right, Jeff, what is this the ninth

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Speaker 3: the tenth season, twelve and folf seasons over how many years?

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Speaker 2: Over thirty years, twenty three years, twenty three.

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Speaker 4: Years, twelve seasons, twenty three years.

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Speaker 3: So we took a big break, so you reach back

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Speaker 3: that far, okay, And it's not like this is a

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Speaker 3: continuing character, you know what I mean. It was one time,

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Speaker 3: a long time ago, and it just it's testimony to

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Speaker 3: what you guys are.

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Speaker 2: Doing, the staying power of the show.

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Speaker 4: By the way, it's amazing watching what you did in

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Speaker 4: a hospital bed.

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Speaker 2: Great work, very funny, very far. Sure.

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Speaker 3: The middle scene where because Larry wouldn't have lunch with me,

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Speaker 3: I had lunch by myself in Central Park, and I

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Speaker 3: remember we shot it at ten o'clock in the morning

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Speaker 3: and they bring these Kastrami sandwiches big from the Carnegie

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Speaker 3: Deli when it was still over night. So the scene

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Speaker 3: was I'm supposed to be eating by myself because he

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Speaker 3: wouldn't have lunch with me, and apparently I didn't know

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Speaker 3: anybody else in New York to ask. And I'm eating

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Speaker 3: this pastrami sandwich. It's a thousand degrees outside in Central Park.

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Speaker 3: I'm on a bench and they did it. I don't

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Speaker 3: know how many takes we did, but first I'm swallowing

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Speaker 3: pastrami at ten in the morning and a ry temperature.

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Speaker 3: Then I'm spitting it out. Then I'm actually giving myself

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Speaker 3: to I'm lickman over because it was vile and it

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Speaker 3: was really really fun, you know. And it's funny because

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Speaker 3: why you said about Larry saying about this world. It

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Speaker 3: dawned on me. And I'm sure you guys all the time,

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Speaker 3: whether it's on curb or anything else you know you

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Speaker 3: have going on your professional lives, there is that moment,

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Speaker 3: will you go, I'm getting paid to do this?

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Speaker 2: Yes, all the you know, isn't this amazing?

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Speaker 3: Look what happened. Look what we did to make our

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Speaker 3: lives this and we get rewarded for it. By the way,

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Speaker 3: speaking of rewarded, we get statues, we get things.

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Speaker 4: Speaking of getting rewarded, I hate at least one, if

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Speaker 4: not two, of the extra pastrami sandwiches. I think I

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Speaker 4: brought one one back to my hotel room and I

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Speaker 4: hate one there.

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Speaker 3: I have food.

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Speaker 4: Memories all across the show. That was a great one.

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Speaker 4: That was so look what the show brings to us.

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Speaker 1: And you know what allan as you know, I'll have

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Speaker 1: lunch with you anytime, because we have lunch.

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Speaker 2: All the time.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, I love our lunches. But you

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Speaker 3: notice that next time we have lunch, look at me

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Speaker 3: a little closer, Susie. You'll see that my table man

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Speaker 3: has have become impeccable.

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Speaker 4: Okay, seriously, because when the last time we went to lunch,

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Speaker 4: I said to myself, I don't know if I can

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Speaker 4: do that again. He's disgusting.

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Speaker 3: I know you.

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Speaker 2: I know you got a hot date, so we're gonna

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Speaker 2: let you go.

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Speaker 3: Friday ahead about some I got a hot day with

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Speaker 3: his seven year old granddaughter. I asked her where she

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Speaker 3: wants to go to vault. It's the twenty fifth anniversary

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Speaker 3: edition of Titanic, So my guess is, aside from having

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Speaker 3: seen it a zillion times already, the fact that it's

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Speaker 3: three hours and fifteen minutes long. There must be scenes

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Speaker 3: that we didn't see, maybe interviews.

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Speaker 2: Oh you're going to go sit through that?

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Speaker 3: Just the thought of it makes me nauseous. But the

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Speaker 3: fact is, I'm curious whether or not they had the

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Speaker 3: original ending where the boat didn't sing okay and decided

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Speaker 3: to go another way.

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Speaker 4: That was what George Lucas is doing when he re

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Speaker 4: released them. Yeah, no, but I want to give Allen

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Speaker 4: credit before we let him go. Well, actually you can

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Speaker 4: go now, let him go.

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Speaker 2: You let me go the credit whether we.

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Speaker 4: Could go mid interview anyhow. So it was Billy Crystal

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Speaker 4: to the right. This is at Castle Rock Offices.

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Speaker 1: This is in twenty nineteen ninety nine, nineteen ninety nine.

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Speaker 4: It's it's before nine, it's like ninety eight ninety okay.

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Speaker 4: And CBS had asked Alan and I to come up

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Speaker 4: with a companion show to Everybody Loves Raymond. That was

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Speaker 4: in the back and actually they didn't pick up our show.

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Speaker 4: They picked up King a Quaints.

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Speaker 2: But my good friend Michael Whitehorn created Oh.

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Speaker 4: Why Michael Whitehorn, who I've worked with and I love,

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Speaker 4: and so Alan and I and then Larry in the

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Speaker 4: next room, and I you know, I'd go into Larry's

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Speaker 4: office when Alan and I had a break and sing

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Speaker 4: Shirley Temple songs that our kids were listening to, which

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Speaker 4: is weird if you can picture Larry and I sing

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Speaker 4: Shirley Temple songs, any of them. Larry would come into

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Speaker 4: the office as we were running, wanting to know where

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Speaker 4: we were at, what we were working on. And one

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Speaker 4: distinct time, Alan and I had written a part for

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Speaker 4: Adam West and we were thrilled with it, and Larry said,

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Speaker 4: I think you can get him, you know, just and

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Speaker 4: of course destroys. But anyhow, here's the key thing. Larry

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Speaker 4: came in one day and says, do you want guys

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Speaker 4: want to go to lunch? And Alan said, you know,

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Speaker 4: I can't. I can't. And Larry and I went to lunch,

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Speaker 4: and that's where CURB was, you know, the the beginning

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Speaker 4: it was. The beginning of CURB was in that lunch

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Speaker 4: between Larry.

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Speaker 2: Lunch.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 4: No, but I don't know if he did.

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Speaker 3: But the boy I had an option No.

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Speaker 4: But here's the thing. It would have been great to

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Speaker 4: have allan, but the conversation wouldn't have gone in the

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Speaker 4: direction that it might have. I actually wanted Alan to go.

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Speaker 4: I was disappointed by the way. As you know, eating

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Speaker 4: with Allan is a delight.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: Maybe Jeff can be our secret guest next time, if

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Speaker 1: he's in New York.

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Speaker 3: I would love it. We always have have these lunches.

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Speaker 3: You'll tell them I beg Diane sock at Michaels and

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Speaker 3: that all you Alan, I will give you a full report.

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Speaker 2: All right, goodbye, Thank you guys.

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Speaker 1: The History of Carpy Enthusiasm is a production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.