Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host
Speaker 1: job and Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio and I love all things tech. And we are
Speaker 1: taking a little break during the holiday season, um so
Speaker 1: that we can enjoy some time with our our loved ones.
Speaker 1: But I'm sure many of you out there will be
Speaker 1: receiving some new tech gear this holiday season, so I
Speaker 1: thought it would be a great idea to revisit this episode,
Speaker 1: which originally published on October. It is called E Waste
Speaker 1: and What to Do with It. So you might find
Speaker 1: yourself needing to get rid of some older tech. Right,
Speaker 1: you got new stuff, now you gotta figure out what
Speaker 1: to do with the old stuff. However, technology can have
Speaker 1: some pretty nasty components in its stuff that has dangerous materials.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna learn in this episode the challenges associated
Speaker 1: with disposing of technology in a safe and responsible manner. Enjoy.
Speaker 1: So today we're going to talk about e waste or
Speaker 1: electronic waste, because it's a real problem for many reasons.
Speaker 1: One of the big ones is that we live in
Speaker 1: an era in which companies are really pushing out new
Speaker 1: products at a rapid pace and doing their best to
Speaker 1: convince you that you need to buy or upgrade or
Speaker 1: whatever on a frequent basis. That's how these companies make
Speaker 1: their money, so it comes as no surprise that they
Speaker 1: would do this. It's the nature of business, and that
Speaker 1: means a couple of things have to happen to make
Speaker 1: that business plan actually work. And one of those things
Speaker 1: is that ideally you make a product that's good, but
Speaker 1: not so good that your customers will never need another
Speaker 1: one after they buy the first one. It's the everlasting
Speaker 1: gobstopper problem of Willy Wonka. If you actually made a
Speaker 1: candy that never got any smaller and never lost its flavor,
Speaker 1: people would only buy one and would never need a
Speaker 1: second one. And where do you go then? So as
Speaker 1: another example in the tech world, let's let's imagine that
Speaker 1: you have created a really cool smart watch and it
Speaker 1: actually has features that people find really compelling. You made
Speaker 1: the first smart watch that a a larger audience thinks
Speaker 1: that actually makes a lot of sense. So your market
Speaker 1: is going to be everybody who might want and who
Speaker 1: can afford a smart watch. Now, obviously that doesn't include
Speaker 1: every single human being. Some people are not going to
Speaker 1: be able to afford it. Some people are not going
Speaker 1: to be interested in it. But you're trying to target
Speaker 1: everyone who would want one and who could afford one.
Speaker 1: So now, let's say you are incredibly successful in an
Speaker 1: unprecedented move. Somehow you have convinced every single person that's
Speaker 1: in that target group to buy one of your smart watches. Congratulations,
Speaker 1: it's a big hit. Only what do you do next.
Speaker 1: Because you're operating a company, you are not going to
Speaker 1: magically sell more of those smart watches beyond your target group,
Speaker 1: because the rest of humanity either doesn't want one, or
Speaker 1: they can't afford one, or both, So soon you go
Speaker 1: out of business because you have nothing else to sell.
Speaker 1: Or let's say instead, you want to make a smart watch,
Speaker 1: and you've come up with a whole list of really cool,
Speaker 1: compelling features, but you choose to only implement a selection
Speaker 1: of those features in your first smart watch. You hold
Speaker 1: back a few more. Maybe you're holding them back because
Speaker 1: they're not quite ready. Maybe you're holding back because the
Speaker 1: technology of the smart watch isn't quite at the point
Speaker 1: where it can support those features. Or maybe you're doing
Speaker 1: it just so that you can save some stuff for
Speaker 1: the next generation of smart watches. You also make your
Speaker 1: smart watches out of good but not great materials, including
Speaker 1: stuff like batteries. That way, the smart watches begin to
Speaker 1: wear out after a set amount of time, maybe a
Speaker 1: couple of years. And your goal is that you want
Speaker 1: to win a loyal base of customers, and then you
Speaker 1: want to convince that same group to turn around and
Speaker 1: buy the next generation of your hardware, and then do
Speaker 1: it again and again. That's essentially how a lot of
Speaker 1: the smartphone industry works, at least for brands like the iPhone.
Speaker 1: One of the reasons Apple is so successful is as
Speaker 1: a company, it has managed to convince customers to purchase
Speaker 1: updated versions of its hardware time and time again, sometimes
Speaker 1: on an accelerated time scale. It might not happen with
Speaker 1: every generation for every product, but it happens enough to
Speaker 1: keep the company really profitable. I'm sure you know people.
Speaker 1: If you are not one of these people, you probably
Speaker 1: know somebody who upgrades their iPhone every year, so they
Speaker 1: get the latest version of the I own every single
Speaker 1: twelve months. That's the kind of of era we are in.
Speaker 1: And while that doesn't cover every single Apple customer, it
Speaker 1: covers a lot of them, and there are a lot
Speaker 1: more customers who every two years or three years will
Speaker 1: do this upgrade. And while I could and probably one
Speaker 1: day will do a full episode about the concept of
Speaker 1: planned obsolescence. That's where a company makes a product that
Speaker 1: essentially has an expiration date that the company has made
Speaker 1: something with the plan of having that thing become obsolete
Speaker 1: within a certain amount of time. Today, we're gonna look
Speaker 1: at the other side of that problem. What do we
Speaker 1: do with the obsolete technology when something better comes along,
Speaker 1: Whether the technology still works or maybe it's beyond repair,
Speaker 1: what do we do with it when we're done with it.
Speaker 1: That's why we're going to talk about electronic waste. And
Speaker 1: it's a huge category because it includes not just the
Speaker 1: technology that no longer works or technology that's become obsolete.
Speaker 1: It includes all tech that is no longer wanted by
Speaker 1: its original owner. So you might have a phone that's
Speaker 1: several years old but still works perfectly well, but you'll
Speaker 1: be confronted with all sorts of advertising and messaging that
Speaker 1: what you should do is ditch that old phone for
Speaker 1: something new and shiny with a lot more features. And
Speaker 1: your old phone, even if it is still in perfect
Speaker 1: working order becomes e waste. The moment you decide you
Speaker 1: want a new phone, what happens next is up to you.
Speaker 1: You have some options. You might choose to recycle your phone,
Speaker 1: in which case I recommend first you wipe everything off
Speaker 1: your device, whether it's a phone, a computer, anything that
Speaker 1: could record your information. You need to wipe that device clean,
Speaker 1: return it to factory settings, make sure that your personal
Speaker 1: data is no longer associated with that machine before you
Speaker 1: turn it in. And I also recommend you do some
Speaker 1: research into the various services that offer to either cycle
Speaker 1: components for you, or they're going to donate the device
Speaker 1: to someone in need, so it's going to be reused
Speaker 1: rather than recycled. Make sure that that service is reputable.
Speaker 1: There are some companies that can cause harm through the
Speaker 1: recycling process or through the smoke screen of donating it
Speaker 1: to people in need. More on that in just a second.
Speaker 1: Or maybe you don't want to recycle or reuse, or
Speaker 1: maybe you just don't have the the services that are
Speaker 1: readily available, or you're not interested. You just shrug your
Speaker 1: shoulders and you toss your phone in the trash. That
Speaker 1: is not a great plan, and it can be against
Speaker 1: the law depending upon where you live. Many electronics have
Speaker 1: components in them that are not environmentally friendly, and they
Speaker 1: don't exactly biodegrade. Electronics might have toxic materials in them.
Speaker 1: In fact, most of them do, stuff like lead, or
Speaker 1: arsenic or mercury. Exposure to the elements would cause those
Speaker 1: chemicals possibly to leach into this rounding environment and it
Speaker 1: ain't fantastic. So here's some examples of some of the stuff.
Speaker 1: So lead toxicity can affect every oregan system in our bodies.
Speaker 1: Lead can inhibit or mimic the actions of calcium and
Speaker 1: interact with proteins. The nervous system is particularly vulnerable, and
Speaker 1: lead exposure can cause neurological damage, particularly in children. Mercury
Speaker 1: is also nasty stuff. It's toxic to the nervous system.
Speaker 1: It's also toxic to the digestive system and the immune system.
Speaker 1: It can cause blindness, muscle weakness, impaired movement, and lots
Speaker 1: of other neurological effects. Arsenic isn't a lot of electronics.
Speaker 1: That's a carcinogen that's associated with many different types of cancer,
Speaker 1: and it's also a neurotoxin. You've probably heard of arsenic
Speaker 1: and old lace yeah, popular poison among UH mystery novelists.
Speaker 1: It's popular because it's deadly stuff. Beryllium is another dangerous
Speaker 1: element that's in a lot of electronics. Exposure to brillium
Speaker 1: is typically pretty minimal for most of us, but you
Speaker 1: could have continued exposure due to maybe living near, for example,
Speaker 1: a recycling center that's not doing a good job at
Speaker 1: containing this stuff. That can lead to health problems ranging
Speaker 1: from skin diseases to what is called acute beryllium disease,
Speaker 1: which the symptoms are very similar to pneumonia. It can
Speaker 1: even lead, although this is pretty rare, to lung cancer.
Speaker 1: Then there's rominated flame retardants. This is actually a class
Speaker 1: of synthetic chemicals that are designed to make stuff less flammable.
Speaker 1: Frequently it tends to be incorporated directly into plastics. Some
Speaker 1: of them, like p B d e S, have been
Speaker 1: linked to numerous health risks, including memory and learning problems. Also,
Speaker 1: thyroid disruption, reduced fertility, advanced puberty, and delayed mental and
Speaker 1: physical development. So we're talking serious consequences from some of
Speaker 1: the stuff that's in our electronics. There's also the possibility
Speaker 1: that if you throw your tech away instead of it
Speaker 1: going to say a landfill, which is already pretty bad.
Speaker 1: They might go to an incinerator, which could be even
Speaker 1: worse because then it gets thrown into a furnace and
Speaker 1: subjected to high heat, it could produce other pollutants and
Speaker 1: those could all be released directly into the environment, causing
Speaker 1: environmental harm and health hazards to the population nearby. Or
Speaker 1: maybe you take a different choice. Maybe you don't send
Speaker 1: it off to be reused recycled, maybe you don't throw
Speaker 1: it away. Maybe it just takes up space in your home.
Speaker 1: But that's also not great. Sometimes it feels like it's
Speaker 1: the least bad situation, but you can find ways of
Speaker 1: have it making sure your device is reused recycled responsibly.
Speaker 1: I'll talk more about that in just a second, but
Speaker 1: first let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor.
Speaker 1: In a Gallop survey found that forty scent of Americans
Speaker 1: would upgrade their mobile handsets as soon as they were
Speaker 1: able to according to their phone plans. So in America,
Speaker 1: until fairly recently, it was really common that these mobile
Speaker 1: providers would subsidize handset costs through the actual phone service
Speaker 1: plans themselves, and so the cost of the handsets to
Speaker 1: the customer were much lower on an upfront basis than
Speaker 1: you would find in other places in the world. So
Speaker 1: instead of having to spend several hundred dollars to buy
Speaker 1: a handset, it might be very cheap, but that cost
Speaker 1: would be incorporated into your phone plan. It would just
Speaker 1: be spread out over the course of your contract, which
Speaker 1: in America would typically last about two years. So every
Speaker 1: two years your contract would come up and you would
Speaker 1: become eligible to upgrade your phone for a new contract.
Speaker 1: And everybody seemed to benefit from this. You got a
Speaker 1: new phone, the phone company had you for another two years. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: over the course of those two years, you're probably paying
Speaker 1: more for that handset than you would if you had
Speaker 1: bought it all up front. It's just those payments have
Speaker 1: been spread out over twenty four months. And it seemed
Speaker 1: like it was a fairly nice proposition, except for the
Speaker 1: fact that that meant that people were generating a lot
Speaker 1: of electronic waste. All these old handsets were starting to accumulate,
Speaker 1: and that's just mobile handsets. Generally speaking. Computer experts say
Speaker 1: that the average PCs lifespan is somewhere between three and
Speaker 1: five years. That typically sometime around three to five years,
Speaker 1: averaging out around four years. People need to upgrade their
Speaker 1: computers because they're just out of date. They're not running
Speaker 1: the latest software. Of the parts start to wear out,
Speaker 1: you know, batteries start to go bad. So then you
Speaker 1: have to do the same thing with your computer. What
Speaker 1: do you do with that? That's a larger piece of
Speaker 1: equipment than a mobile handset. Obviously, TVs tend to stick
Speaker 1: around a little bit longer, despite the best efforts of
Speaker 1: various companies out there. Because every time I go to
Speaker 1: c e S that's the big consumer electronics show in
Speaker 1: Las Vegas every year, it seems like the big push
Speaker 1: is to come up with a new feature that's going
Speaker 1: to convince someone who bought a new television last year
Speaker 1: to do it all over again. But generally speaking, people
Speaker 1: don't do that because it's pretty expensive. People tend to
Speaker 1: stick with the same television for un average around seven
Speaker 1: years before upgrading. I think I'm behind the average there.
Speaker 1: I don't even I stick with my televisions forever, it seems,
Speaker 1: but you don't see that happen as frequently. But that
Speaker 1: still is an issue if you do upgrade. Let's say
Speaker 1: that Thanksgiving roles around in the States. That's typically when
Speaker 1: you start seeing these big uh discounts on televisions that
Speaker 1: came out the year before and stores want to clear
Speaker 1: out those inventories to make way for new TVs they're
Speaker 1: coming in in the new year. Uh. You can get
Speaker 1: these crazy deals on what looks to be like a
Speaker 1: great bar in for a television, but that means you
Speaker 1: have to do something with your old TV. Again electronic waste,
Speaker 1: and there are larger appliances that we tend to stick
Speaker 1: with until we need to replace them. Right Like, not
Speaker 1: a lot of people sit there and say I want
Speaker 1: a new washer and dryer unless their old washer and
Speaker 1: dryer is either become unreliable or has just plane broken.
Speaker 1: But eventually we do have to replace these things. So
Speaker 1: pretty much anything that has circuitry or electrical components fits
Speaker 1: into the category of e waste, from lamps to washing
Speaker 1: machines or smart watches to large screen televisions, and electronic
Speaker 1: waste is one of the fastest growing types of waste
Speaker 1: in the world. As we see technology adoption increase in
Speaker 1: new markets like Africa, we're seeing those numbers climb rapidly.
Speaker 1: Now developed countries do tend to produce a lot more
Speaker 1: E waste. As a rule, China is known for producing
Speaker 1: most of it, and if you're looking at it from
Speaker 1: a percentage point and looking at each nation, China leads
Speaker 1: the way, but America is not super far behind. When
Speaker 1: it comes the highest amount of E waste generated per inhabitant.
Speaker 1: You gotta look over toward Australia, Polynesia, Micronesia and that area.
Speaker 1: They generate the most E waste per inhabitant, but there
Speaker 1: are very few people they're compared to other parts of
Speaker 1: the world, so it doesn't amount to as much in
Speaker 1: a grand scheme of things. The cost of consumer electronics
Speaker 1: also continues to drop. That makes electronics more accessible to
Speaker 1: a wider group of people, and I think that's a
Speaker 1: good thing. I think have more people having access to
Speaker 1: technology is great. In general. It's very important accessibility, making
Speaker 1: sure that we start to whittle away at that gap
Speaker 1: between the halves and the have nots. However, when you
Speaker 1: pair this with the trend of pushing people to adopt
Speaker 1: and then abandoned technology rapidly in favor of the next
Speaker 1: new thing, it really exacerbates the problem of E waste.
Speaker 1: In the United Nations released a report on e waste
Speaker 1: that looked into trends and challenges, and that report found
Speaker 1: that by the lobal production of E waste had hit
Speaker 1: forty four point seven million metric tons of junct tech.
Speaker 1: That's the equivalent of four thousand, five hundred Eiffel towers.
Speaker 1: That means, on average, each inhabitant produced six point one
Speaker 1: ks or nearly thirteen and a half pounds of electronic waste.
Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen, it was more like five point eight
Speaker 1: kilograms or twelve point eight pounds, so the trend was
Speaker 1: on the rise. Not only are we generating more, we're
Speaker 1: generating more per person. Only of all of that e
Speaker 1: waste was properly documented as being recycled or reused under
Speaker 1: was considered to be the the appropriate guidelines. So, according
Speaker 1: to the United Nations, of the forty four point seven
Speaker 1: million metric tons of e waste produced by twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: one point seven million tons of it got thrown into
Speaker 1: residual waste in higher income countries, which pretty much means
Speaker 1: they either ended up in landfills or in incinerators. Only
Speaker 1: eight point nine million tons was documented as collected and recycled,
Speaker 1: so it's possible the more waste is being recycled than
Speaker 1: we know about, but it's undocumented and unverified, which ain't great,
Speaker 1: and since the trend seems to be on the rise,
Speaker 1: this is really bad news. Now again, according to the
Speaker 1: u N report, by twenty twenty one will see E
Speaker 1: waste hit fifty two point two million metric tons. I'm
Speaker 1: citing the United Nations a lot, but I should also
Speaker 1: point out that it's very, very difficult to get an
Speaker 1: accurate representation of exactly how big this problem is because
Speaker 1: a lot of countries do not collect or publish statistics
Speaker 1: about electronic waste, and in some cases you may not
Speaker 1: be entirely certain that the findings that are being reported
Speaker 1: are accurate. So some of the numbers that the UN
Speaker 1: relies upon come from estimates as a result of doing
Speaker 1: some investigation and then extrapolating those results to get a
Speaker 1: bigger picture of view of what might be going on.
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of advocacy groups out there
Speaker 1: that really want to tackle E waste, and that is
Speaker 1: a good thing. I don't disagree with their motivation. However,
Speaker 1: I will say that sometimes some of these groups tend
Speaker 1: to present numbers that I personally cannot track down to
Speaker 1: a verifiable source, that is less good. I definitely agree
Speaker 1: we need to acknowledge and tackle the e waste problem
Speaker 1: in a responsible way. However, presenting information as fact without
Speaker 1: any evidence to back it up is a really good
Speaker 1: way to allow people who oppose your philosophy a means
Speaker 1: of criticizing your methods. So, in other words, you're just
Speaker 1: opening up the door for someone to tear down your argument,
Speaker 1: because if they can say this number you're citing as
Speaker 1: fact has no evidence to back it up, then it's
Speaker 1: like they're saying, well, you're arguing that something is a problem,
Speaker 1: but you can't even prove to me that the problem exists.
Speaker 1: That's not great. Many developed nations do have various programs
Speaker 1: in place to deal with electronic waste, things that you
Speaker 1: are supposed to do if you are trying to get
Speaker 1: rid of old electronics. However, these various programs aren't always
Speaker 1: followed properly, and in fact, some practices that are commonplace
Speaker 1: in these countries are technically illegal. However, they are rarely enforced,
Speaker 1: so you might see people throw stuff out in the
Speaker 1: garbage when they're supposed to follow a very different protocol,
Speaker 1: but because there's not really any way of policing that,
Speaker 1: and even if there were, there's not a high likelihood
Speaker 1: of it being prosecuted. There's no teeth to any legislation.
Speaker 1: People have to do it because they want to be responsible,
Speaker 1: not because they're worried about being punished otherwise. So appealing
Speaker 1: to people's responsibility, to their to their desire to be
Speaker 1: a good person might be more helpful. Just because it's
Speaker 1: not very practical in most cases to come up with
Speaker 1: pollution police developing nation have it fairly rough. Uh. These
Speaker 1: are the countries that did not benefit from gradually developing
Speaker 1: this technology and building out an infrastructure to support it. Instead,
Speaker 1: they leap frogged into the modern era of electronics without
Speaker 1: having done that, and so they aren't able to deal
Speaker 1: with the consequences as readily as the rest of the world,
Speaker 1: which has kind of grown into this. So I'm talking
Speaker 1: about places like lots of countries in Africa which have
Speaker 1: thankfully gotten access to things like cell towers, cell phones,
Speaker 1: a lot of cellular based technologies, but they did this
Speaker 1: by leap frogging other developments, and they don't have the
Speaker 1: systems in place to handle e waste. And it's also
Speaker 1: true and unfortunate that the people who are at least
Speaker 1: able to afford the problems that come along with electronic
Speaker 1: waste are the same ones who have to deal with it.
Speaker 1: In many cases, there's also an issue with developing countries
Speaker 1: accepting e waste for recycling purposes. Essentially, you've got UH
Speaker 1: places that will either accept or they will actually go
Speaker 1: out and buy electronic waste from other countries, which is
Speaker 1: not necessarily a bad thing on the surface. Recycling can
Speaker 1: be an industry unto itself, and it can provide a
Speaker 1: valuable service while recapturing some of the raw materials that
Speaker 1: were used to make electronics. The u N actually reported
Speaker 1: that those raw materials were worth about fifty five billion
Speaker 1: euro in UH in twenty sixteen. The euro averaged out
Speaker 1: to be about one point one dollars per euro, so
Speaker 1: that would be that the raw materials were worth around
Speaker 1: sixty billion dollars. So it would definitely be better too
Speaker 1: to reclaim some of that value to leverage it rather
Speaker 1: than just throw it out if you can do that.
Speaker 1: UH and I talked about some of the harmful materials
Speaker 1: that are in electronics, but they can also contain some
Speaker 1: really valuable stuff In it like goal to copper alumium
Speaker 1: and steal. But the bad part comes into play with
Speaker 1: the practices and processes for recycling electronics. If there are
Speaker 1: a few protections in place and a recycling center is
Speaker 1: not following careful protocols, the process of recycling can be
Speaker 1: very harmful to the environment as well as really the
Speaker 1: people who are working at that facility and for the
Speaker 1: surrounding population as a as a possibility. A lot of
Speaker 1: these places, the reason why they are an attractive place
Speaker 1: to send recycling for the rest of the world is
Speaker 1: that it's inexpensive to do it um And part of
Speaker 1: the reason for that is because in a lot of
Speaker 1: these countries the cost of labor is low, meaning they're
Speaker 1: not paying people very much. And uh that becomes a
Speaker 1: delicate balance too, because if the amount you're spending to
Speaker 1: recycle is larger than the amount you're getting back, you're
Speaker 1: in a losing proposition. So you can't continue to operate
Speaker 1: that way. But in order for you to do this
Speaker 1: in an efficient way, you have to find out, you know,
Speaker 1: what's a what's a low cost method of recycling this stuff?
Speaker 1: And it tends to be sending it to very poor
Speaker 1: nations that very low wages and often do not treat
Speaker 1: their employees very well. There's a terrible standard of living,
Speaker 1: and the measures that are supposed to be there in
Speaker 1: order to ensure people's safety may not be there at all,
Speaker 1: so it's very worrisome. Typically, the way a recycling center
Speaker 1: would process electronic waste would follow a pattern. So first
Speaker 1: it would have to get this electronic waste, which is
Speaker 1: a non trivial problem. Transporting materials requires energy, um it
Speaker 1: has an economic impact. So if it takes a lot
Speaker 1: of energy, if it takes a lot of money to
Speaker 1: get the electronic waste to the recycling center, you could
Speaker 1: be operating in a loss, which means it's a nonstarter
Speaker 1: once you get it. The next step could be an
Speaker 1: assessment of each piece of electronic waste, because some of
Speaker 1: these devices could be in good working order. Then if
Speaker 1: it's operable, or if you can do repairs on it
Speaker 1: and make it operable, you might want to resell that
Speaker 1: device for a profit and keep it in use. And
Speaker 1: that's one of the best options out there, honestly, because
Speaker 1: it increases the utility of a device beyond its initial
Speaker 1: lifespan with its original owner, and you don't have to
Speaker 1: go through the rest of this process. People can still
Speaker 1: get use out of it. It removes the necessity to
Speaker 1: make a new one of those, so it is reusing
Speaker 1: is one of the best options. In fact, reusing in general,
Speaker 1: when you're looking at reusing versus recycling, tends to be
Speaker 1: one of the best options out there. However, it can
Speaker 1: be tricky to do because sometimes it's not the easiest
Speaker 1: thing to repair some of these gadgets. More in that
Speaker 1: in just a second. But if you can do it,
Speaker 1: that tends to be step one. Sort out all the
Speaker 1: stuff that could actually be reclaimed, reused, resold. Next, assuming
Speaker 1: we're going to then reclaim the stuff inside the electronics
Speaker 1: that you cannot sell again. Maybe they're irreparably broken, maybe
Speaker 1: they're obsolete. Maybe there's no demand for those electronics, so
Speaker 1: they might work, but you're never going to sell them anyway,
Speaker 1: but just because no one wants them. Then you want
Speaker 1: to disassemble the device to get at the various components
Speaker 1: inside of it, especially the components that were really interested in,
Speaker 1: the ones that have materials like gold or copper on them.
Speaker 1: But that's not always easy to do, and this is
Speaker 1: also why it's very difficult to repair some types of electronics.
Speaker 1: More and more electronic devices are being locked away in
Speaker 1: their form factors. Like in the old days, good old days,
Speaker 1: children sit down, used to be able to take electronics
Speaker 1: apart and mess with them. So you hear a lot
Speaker 1: of stories about how young engineers when they were kids
Speaker 1: would take apart very gadgets in order to learn how
Speaker 1: they worked, and then would put them back together again
Speaker 1: and they would work. Still these days, it's a lot
Speaker 1: harder to do that because a lot of electronics are
Speaker 1: not designed to be taken apart. The industry as a
Speaker 1: whole has moved to a model that's difficult to do that.
Speaker 1: Apple is notorious for this. You get a new iPhone
Speaker 1: that is not meant to be taken apart. You are
Speaker 1: not meant to take the battery out of that. It
Speaker 1: is meant to be a single, unified device for its
Speaker 1: useful life. The company this way can keep a really
Speaker 1: tight control on how its technology is used. They have
Speaker 1: a lot of control over it as a platform. But
Speaker 1: this comes at a price. Manufacturers tend to use a
Speaker 1: lot of glue these days. That makes it really tricky
Speaker 1: to take the stuff apart, and it just makes it
Speaker 1: hard not just to do repairs, but to get at
Speaker 1: the various components in order to do some recycling. Now,
Speaker 1: if the device has parts that are particularly valuable, those
Speaker 1: might be set aside for resale value. Now this is
Speaker 1: particularly true for like older television and things like that.
Speaker 1: You might find that there's some working components in there
Speaker 1: that you can take apart or take out of the
Speaker 1: device and then sell those as replacement parts or repair parts,
Speaker 1: and then just recycled the rest of the stuff. Now,
Speaker 1: once you've disassembled the tech and you've removed anything that
Speaker 1: can easily be resold, then you would put it through
Speaker 1: a shredder to grind the components down into smaller pieces. Typically,
Speaker 1: after that point you would have some human employees go
Speaker 1: through this shredded material and remove anything that might be
Speaker 1: overtly hazardous, like pieces of battery, and then everything that's
Speaker 1: left over after you remove the hazardous stuff gets shredded
Speaker 1: again into even smaller pieces. Then you need to separate
Speaker 1: out those pieces into different stuff. One way you might
Speaker 1: do this is using a really big magnet and pass
Speaker 1: it over the shredded material. Anything that's uh this ferrist
Speaker 1: is going to be attracted to the magnet and we'll
Speaker 1: get pulled up by it, and you can then separate
Speaker 1: that out. Uh. You might otherwise need to use various
Speaker 1: methodologies to sort the particles into different densities which will
Speaker 1: represent different materials, and thus you get different piles of stuff. Um,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things like centrifuges or platforms that
Speaker 1: shake a lot to help sort the stuff out, and
Speaker 1: you do this over and over again until you've got
Speaker 1: your various piles and stuff that has like precious metals
Speaker 1: might end up being uh exposed to an acid bath
Speaker 1: to burn away anything that isn't that metal, and then
Speaker 1: the pieces of metal can be gathered together and then
Speaker 1: eventually smelted into ingots. Glass and plastics can be separated
Speaker 1: for reprocessing. And then you have done everything you could
Speaker 1: to reclaim as much as you could from those devices.
Speaker 1: And if you've done it carefully and responsibly, you've done
Speaker 1: it without releasing toxic fumes or toxic materials into the
Speaker 1: environment or harming your employees. That's easier said than done.
Speaker 1: It is a challenging thing. It is possible you can
Speaker 1: do recycling responsibly, but it requires a lot of careful
Speaker 1: work and governance. I have more to say about electronic waste,
Speaker 1: but before I get to it, let's take another quick
Speaker 1: break to thank our sponsor. So on October eighteen, which
Speaker 1: was just a few days before I jumped into the
Speaker 1: studio to record this episode, the world had its very
Speaker 1: first International E Waste Day. The goal there was not
Speaker 1: to generate more electronic waste, but rather to raise awareness
Speaker 1: of proper recycling and reuse programs for electronics, raising awareness
Speaker 1: over the illegal selling of e waste two countries that
Speaker 1: are buying it for processing and also for data mining.
Speaker 1: That's something that you should keep in mind that some
Speaker 1: of these companies that are offering to take electronics off
Speaker 1: your hands might actually be going through them very carefully
Speaker 1: to see if there's any data they can they can
Speaker 1: get from it, any personal data, any like logins, that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. This actually does happen, and it happens
Speaker 1: on a pretty big basis, And because these companies will
Speaker 1: often send all this electronic waste to some other country
Speaker 1: that's outside the jurisdiction of whatever country you live in.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the United States in particular because that's
Speaker 1: where I live, but it happens all over the world.
Speaker 1: That's a dangerous thing, and then they'll sell that data
Speaker 1: to interested buyers UM often wholesale. They'll just sell huge
Speaker 1: amounts of data at a time. That's one way of
Speaker 1: doing it. So it's very important to look at various
Speaker 1: UH resources online in order to get an idea of
Speaker 1: the reputation of the various services that are available out
Speaker 1: there for you to use for recycling or reusing. UM
Speaker 1: recycling can be economically difficult to support unless you're talking
Speaker 1: about markets that have those very low costs of labor,
Speaker 1: like I said before, the low salaries with no benefits,
Speaker 1: bad working conditions, that kind of thing. So it is
Speaker 1: a very tricky subject without it being more profitable than
Speaker 1: the only people who are willing to do it are
Speaker 1: going to be the ones who aren't having to spend
Speaker 1: so much money to go through the process in the
Speaker 1: first place. So finding a reputable service that will recycle
Speaker 1: electronics in a way that is responsible, it's not exploitative
Speaker 1: of its workforce, it's not exposing the environment needlessly to
Speaker 1: these dangerous materials that are in electronics, that's doing its
Speaker 1: due diligence is a bit of a challenge. They do exist,
Speaker 1: so it is important and there are many of them,
Speaker 1: and they're all over the world, so going into specific
Speaker 1: ones it's kind of difficult. Sometimes they're hyperlocal organizations that
Speaker 1: are really looking for as much reuse and re saling
Speaker 1: ability as possible. Um But there are some other alternatives
Speaker 1: to this approach, things that couldn't you can't just do
Speaker 1: with any electronics, but things that might happen in the future. So,
Speaker 1: for example, there have been some proposals to make a
Speaker 1: new type of electronics that are dissolvable, in other words,
Speaker 1: electronics that will actually over time degrade into harmless materials.
Speaker 1: And the first application that was thought of for this
Speaker 1: kind of stuff was perhaps for medical devices, so like
Speaker 1: a temporary medical device that you might have to have
Speaker 1: surgically implanted. But if it's a device that could over
Speaker 1: time degrade harmlessly and get absorbed by the body or
Speaker 1: excreted in some way, then you have eminated the necessity
Speaker 1: for a follow up surgery, which is a good thing.
Speaker 1: You know, you want to limit surgeries as much as
Speaker 1: you can, because every time you have a surgery, that
Speaker 1: opens up more risk for things like infection. So it's
Speaker 1: an interesting idea, but you could also apply that same
Speaker 1: principle to general electronics, not just medical devices. In fact,
Speaker 1: one of the researchers who was looking into dissolvable electronics
Speaker 1: had gone so far as to suggest that companies could
Speaker 1: invest in this technology and then make electronics that really
Speaker 1: do have an expiration date, Electronics that after a certain
Speaker 1: amount of time, we're going to start to degrade, which
Speaker 1: would necessitate you're going out and buying a replacement, which
Speaker 1: sounds pretty awful from a consumer point of view. I
Speaker 1: would hate the idea of I saved up money, I
Speaker 1: got myself this nice smartphone, and then two years later
Speaker 1: it literally will not work anymore, and I will need
Speaker 1: to get a new smartphone because the one I have
Speaker 1: is is decaying too various compounds, harmless compounds. Uh. That
Speaker 1: might be great for the environment, it's not great for
Speaker 1: my bank account, it's not great for my morale as
Speaker 1: a consumer. And you could argue that companies are already
Speaker 1: kind of doing this, only without the actual dissolving into
Speaker 1: inorganic or or organic compounds. Part. Where you've got companies
Speaker 1: that because they are constantly updating the operating systems of
Speaker 1: the hardware that they are involved with, like Apple or
Speaker 1: Google with Android, because they're constantly making those those updates.
Speaker 1: They eventually get to a point where the older hardware
Speaker 1: cannot support the latest version of the operating system. And
Speaker 1: the longer you stick with your older device, the further
Speaker 1: behind you get. So you find you may find that
Speaker 1: you cannot install certain applications because you can't run the
Speaker 1: relevant operating system on that hardware. Well, you could argue
Speaker 1: that that's essentially the same thing designing a device that
Speaker 1: is kind of in a self destruct mode where it's
Speaker 1: going to fall apart after a certain amount of time.
Speaker 1: It's just that in the case of the you know,
Speaker 1: obsolescence through the operating system, it doesn't come with the
Speaker 1: benefit of degrading into harmless materials. So it's kind of
Speaker 1: the worst of all worlds. But still, I don't think
Speaker 1: a lot of people are going to be calling for
Speaker 1: dissolvable electronics. I also suspect that this researcher who was
Speaker 1: suggesting that companies could invest in this technology so that
Speaker 1: they could make you know, gadgets that become obsolete that
Speaker 1: the literally break within a certain amount of time. I
Speaker 1: suspect he was doing this in where to get funding
Speaker 1: to continue his work, and not that he was arguing
Speaker 1: that electronics need to break down after a certain amount
Speaker 1: of time, but rather I need to continue my work
Speaker 1: in creating this medical technology. I want to make. One
Speaker 1: way I could do it is to convince big companies
Speaker 1: to pour some money into it. That's my suspicion. I
Speaker 1: don't know it for a fact, but there are also
Speaker 1: other suggestions. One of my favorites is UH to create
Speaker 1: incentives for companies to create buy back programs. In other words,
Speaker 1: the companies that make the technology themselves will buy back
Speaker 1: older versions incarnations of that technology. So let's say that
Speaker 1: Apple creates a new iPhone, as it does every year,
Speaker 1: but it also offers a buy back program where it
Speaker 1: will buy your old iPhone for obviously a big markdown
Speaker 1: because you've owned it for at least a year, maybe more,
Speaker 1: and UH, it will take the iPhone off your hands.
Speaker 1: And from there, maybe the company resells it at a profit,
Speaker 1: or maybe they take it upon themselves to go through
Speaker 1: the process of recycling those components in a way that's responsible. UH.
Speaker 1: The way to really encourage this might be through tax
Speaker 1: incentive program on a government level, where companies that participate
Speaker 1: in such practices get nice tax breaks as a result,
Speaker 1: anyone who has followed any of the major tech companies
Speaker 1: knows those tech companies love their tax breaks. It's amazing
Speaker 1: that a company can become like a trillion dollar company
Speaker 1: and yet not owe any taxes. That's a discussion for
Speaker 1: another time. It does not belong here. I'm just getting grouchy.
Speaker 1: But those are some possible ways of approaching this problem
Speaker 1: that don't go down the same path of uh, exploiting
Speaker 1: people who are extremely vulnerable. Obviously, those people who are
Speaker 1: gainfully employed through the recycling industry, even if they're being exploited,
Speaker 1: it would be really nice if we could come up
Speaker 1: with a an industry that they could work in where
Speaker 1: they're not being treated so poorly. But uh, we gotta
Speaker 1: we gotta start solving the problems where we can and
Speaker 1: work our way to the bigger, bigger issues because they
Speaker 1: are huge and there are no easy answers. Life is
Speaker 1: a complicated thing. But I thought it was important to
Speaker 1: really address this topic and to urge you that if
Speaker 1: you have old electronic devices that you need to get
Speaker 1: rid of, look into the various recycling or you know,
Speaker 1: resale options that are available to you and give them
Speaker 1: some serious consideration. Do a little bit more than just googling.
Speaker 1: Look look into those services, make sure they have a
Speaker 1: good reputation, and that way you can be a responsible
Speaker 1: citizen of the of the world. You can avoid as
Speaker 1: best you can contributing to pollution or to human misery.
Speaker 1: And I think that's a pretty noble goal that we
Speaker 1: can all kind of get behind. And uh, as I
Speaker 1: said at the beginning, I still love technology. I just
Speaker 1: have to again keep in mind both the positives and
Speaker 1: the negatives. It's always important to look at the whole picture,
Speaker 1: not turn a blind eye to stuff just because it's inconvenient.
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that classic episode of tech Stuff,
Speaker 1: classic from three whole years ago. But yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: a challenge figuring out how to take care of e
Speaker 1: waste in a way that actually is responsible. It takes
Speaker 1: a little bit of homework. We are fortunate here in
Speaker 1: Atlanta that there is a facility specifically designed to do that,
Speaker 1: although of course in the era of the pandemic it
Speaker 1: is much more challenging to make use of it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's good to kind of do that legwork to make
Speaker 1: sure that the way you are disposing of your tech
Speaker 1: is the responsible and safe way to do it. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I hope you and your loved ones are having happy
Speaker 1: holidays and that you know we're able to prepare ourselves
Speaker 1: for whatever two is going to throw at us, because
Speaker 1: boy howdy, last couple of years have been pretty rough.
Speaker 1: I have a feeling that at least is going to
Speaker 1: start out that way. But I'm hoping you are all
Speaker 1: healthy and happy, and I will talk to you again
Speaker 1: really soon. Text Stuff is an I Heart Radio production.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the i
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.