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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, Daniel here. Today's episode is our five hundredth

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Speaker 1: episode of the podcast. Thank you so much to everyone

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Speaker 1: out there who's joined us on this wild ride to

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Speaker 1: explore the beauty and mystery of our universe. Those people

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Speaker 1: who feel that buzzing need to know the truth about

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Speaker 1: the deepest cosmic questions, and who share my hunch that

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Speaker 1: humans are capable of figuring it all out. I always

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Speaker 1: wanted to share with all of you the incredible feeling

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Speaker 1: of satisfaction I get when something clicks into place in

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Speaker 1: my mind. It's been my absolute pleasure, and here's to

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Speaker 1: many more moments of deep insight. Everyone is curious about

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Speaker 1: how things work and how it all comes together, especially

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Speaker 1: you since you're listening to this podcast right now, and

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Speaker 1: over the last five years that we've been on air,

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Speaker 1: we've spent a lot of time talking about how the

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Speaker 1: universe works and how particles are woven together to make

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Speaker 1: our reality. But did you ever wonder how this podcast works.

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Speaker 1: How a physicist with a full time job puts up

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Speaker 1: two episodes per week with his co hosts and guests.

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Speaker 1: How lots of people working together weave all of their

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Speaker 1: efforts to make this podcast a reality. Hi, I'm Daniel.

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Speaker 1: I'm a particle physicist and a professor at uc Ermine,

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Speaker 1: and I'm a podcaster. I usually don't list that in

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Speaker 1: my introduction to episodes, which is kind of weird because

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Speaker 1: that's actually how most of you who know me. Very

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Speaker 1: few of you out there know me in any of

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Speaker 1: my other worlds a particle physicist or university professor. Those

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Speaker 1: are the worlds that occupy most of my time. You

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Speaker 1: all mostly know me through this podcast, and today I

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Speaker 1: want to meld those worlds a little bit to show

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Speaker 1: you how I ended up becoming a podcaster and how

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Speaker 1: it fits into the rest of my life and how

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Speaker 1: the podcast comes together. So welcome to the podcast. Daniel

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Speaker 1: and Jorge explain the Universe, in which we explore and

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Speaker 1: explain the nature of the universe from the smallest, tiny

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Speaker 1: little bits out there to the whole nature of the universe,

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Speaker 1: black holes and cosmic strings and everything out there. We

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Speaker 1: tackle the biggest questions and we try to break them

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Speaker 1: down and explain them to you. If you're new to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. The note that today is not a typical episode.

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Speaker 1: This episode instead is something of a celebration and self reflection.

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Speaker 1: We've done five hundred episodes of the podcast. Now, that's

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Speaker 1: two a week every week for about five years. Along

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Speaker 1: the way, we've had highs and lows, and moments of

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Speaker 1: laughter and moments of tears, and we'll share a lot

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Speaker 1: of those with you today. But mostly I did want

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Speaker 1: to use this episode to celebrate what we've accomplished here,

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Speaker 1: and to do that, I wanted to pull back the

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Speaker 1: curtain and let you in on the process of how

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Speaker 1: the podcast is made. So today's episode will not be

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Speaker 1: a deep dive into physics, but into the podcast itself.

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Speaker 1: I hope that's interesting to all of you out there.

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Speaker 1: While each episode is mostly about physics, I find that

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Speaker 1: listeners also usually respond positively to our occasional personal comment

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Speaker 1: like when I talk about white chocolate versus dark chocolate,

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Speaker 1: or complain about having to help my son with his

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Speaker 1: chemistry homework. And so I hope there's interest out there

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Speaker 1: in getting to know the team behind the podcast and

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Speaker 1: how they do what they do. I think it's pretty

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Speaker 1: unusual to put out such a high volume of content

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Speaker 1: with such a small team, and I want to show

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Speaker 1: you how we do it, what a joy it is

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Speaker 1: to do, and what it means to all of us,

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Speaker 1: because it wasn't always obvious that we were going to

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Speaker 1: get here five hundred episodes in. For example, here's a

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Speaker 1: frank comment from a listener along these lines. He's a

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Speaker 1: friend and a fellow particle physicist, Brian Field.

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Speaker 2: I believe I saw a fellow podcaster who had retweeted

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Speaker 2: that there was going to be a new podcast. The

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Speaker 2: people that wrote, you know, we have no idea, you know,

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Speaker 2: sort of thing. These books that I enjoyed, and so

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Speaker 2: I got kind of got in on the ground floor,

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Speaker 2: and as a professional scientist myself, I was very surprised

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Speaker 2: to find how great they were, how high level they were.

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Speaker 2: And I have to admit that my first thought was, well,

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Speaker 2: these are great, but there's no way they're going to

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Speaker 2: be able to keep this level of discourse with this

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Speaker 2: many topics for any amount of time. They're just going

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Speaker 2: to run out of clever things to say, They're going

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Speaker 2: to run out of topics. They're going to cover it all.

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Speaker 2: But you know, while it lasts, this is going to

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Speaker 2: be great. And it was right that it was great,

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Speaker 2: and I was wrong about everything else. And I hope

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Speaker 2: that this is just the beginning and that it continues

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Speaker 2: to be a great source of science news in the future,

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Speaker 2: and I'm just so glad that it's part of my life.

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Speaker 1: Keep doing.

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Speaker 2: Keep up the great work, guys, and from your number

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Speaker 2: one friend, Brian, talk to you later.

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Speaker 1: Brian didn't think we could keep it up, have enough

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Speaker 1: clever things to say for all those episodes. Well I'm

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Speaker 1: glad to say that we proved him wrong. That five

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Speaker 1: hundred episodes of Bananas and black Holes later, we've kind

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Speaker 1: of found a rhythm and a team that works together

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Speaker 1: well and puts out two episodes a week without fail

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Speaker 1: every week. But let's start at the very beginning. Before

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Speaker 1: we can talk about how an episode is made, I

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Speaker 1: want to tell you the story about how the podcast

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Speaker 1: itself came to be. Like many podcasts, Ours came out

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Speaker 1: of writing a book, the book that Jorge and I

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Speaker 1: wrote together in twenty seventeen called We Have No Idea,

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Speaker 1: and that book grew out of some earlier collaborations, ones

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Speaker 1: that frankly I never thought could happen. Because while you

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Speaker 1: all probably know Jorge as the co host of this podcast,

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Speaker 1: I first knew him as the famous cartoonist behind PhD Comics,

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Speaker 1: and he certainly had no idea who I was. It

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Speaker 1: was kind of a miracle that I got to work

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Speaker 1: with such an internet celebrity at all. He was a

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Speaker 1: clip of me during a presentation we gave at Harvard

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Speaker 1: telling the story of how Orgey and I came to

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Speaker 1: work together till one. It's been a real pleasure working

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Speaker 1: on these projects with Jorge. Not only he's the an

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Speaker 1: amazing artist, he's also really modest. So for example, I

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Speaker 1: have to correct the story a little bit that he

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Speaker 1: told you because he leaves out some important details. When

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Speaker 1: I thought about explaining physics using cartoons, I thought that

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Speaker 1: would be a lot of fun, But I don't have

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Speaker 1: the artistic talent to do it myself. Who could I

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Speaker 1: get to do this? And my wife, who's also a

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Speaker 1: fan of PhD comics, she said, well, why don't you

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Speaker 1: email Jorge Chom And I thought, well, you know, Jorge

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Speaker 1: is not just some cartoonist, right, He's like in academia

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Speaker 1: and in research, he's world famous. You can't go to

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Speaker 1: a lab that does research and not find one of

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Speaker 1: his cartoons on the wall because he's really captured, you know,

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Speaker 1: the experience of being a graduate student and the suffering

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Speaker 1: of research and all of these things. So it's like

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Speaker 1: just emailing a famous person, right, So she says, why

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Speaker 1: don't you email Jorge Chom And I thought, sure, and

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Speaker 1: then I'll call Brad Pitt and ask him to make

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Speaker 1: a movie about me him, right, like while we're at it. Right,

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Speaker 1: So I still having her back from Brad. But I

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Speaker 1: did get to write this awesome book with Horage, which

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Speaker 1: is a lot of fun. So after I cold email

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Speaker 1: this internet celebrity, Jorge and I amazingly started out making

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Speaker 1: videos where I would explain the particle physics and he

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Speaker 1: would make these incredible cartoons to illustrate and clarify the ideas.

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Speaker 1: Then in twenty seventeen, the cartoonist behind the webcomic XKCD

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Speaker 1: had a massive best selling book called what If, which

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Speaker 1: if you haven't read, you should, and his agent reached

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Speaker 1: out to Jorge to see if Jorge was interested in

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Speaker 1: also doing a science comic book to blend explaining science

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Speaker 1: and comics, and you know, explaining physics using cartoons was

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Speaker 1: kind of my jam. So Jorge called me and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: I think we could write a book about particle physics.

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Speaker 1: And I said, I don't know. Let's find out what's involved.

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Speaker 1: I'm a physics professor. I don't really know anything about publishing. Well,

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Speaker 1: it turns out to sell a nonfiction book is pretty

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Speaker 1: weird process. If you want to sell a novel, you

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Speaker 1: typically have to write the whole thing and then sell it,

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Speaker 1: unless you're like Stephen King and have a track record.

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Speaker 1: But for nonfiction, you don't actually have to write it first.

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Speaker 1: You just write a sample chapter and an outline. So

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Speaker 1: we did, and the whole thing came together kind of

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Speaker 1: shockingly fast. I remember sitting down and banging out the

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Speaker 1: first draft of a sample chapter during my daughter's gymnastics

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Speaker 1: practice one Saturday morning, and it just kind of flowed

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Speaker 1: out of me. You know, all these thoughts and ideas

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Speaker 1: I had about dark matter and how little we know

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Speaker 1: about the universe, and how much there was left to discover,

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Speaker 1: and how exciting that was, and the opportunity and the

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Speaker 1: thrill of all that just sort of like flowed on

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Speaker 1: to the page. I sent it out to Jorge, who

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Speaker 1: whipped it into shape and made sure it was clear

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Speaker 1: and relatable in that way that he's so good at,

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Speaker 1: and then he drew his wonderful cartoons, and we sent

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Speaker 1: it off to the agent and just like two weeks later,

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Speaker 1: we had a very flattering book contract. The whole thing

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Speaker 1: was like really a whirlwind. Then of course we got

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Speaker 1: to actually write the book, which took about a year,

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Speaker 1: and it was a lot of fun. Jorge and I

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Speaker 1: had lots of conversations about what to write about and

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Speaker 1: how to write it. We talked about science, send me jokes,

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Speaker 1: and had a lot of fun, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: learned a lot just in trying to explain particle physics

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Speaker 1: to somebody who's really smart and ask good questions. So

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Speaker 1: many times Jorge would like back things up and say,

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Speaker 1: a whole lot a second, what do you mean we

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Speaker 1: don't know what mass is or we don't understand space,

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Speaker 1: And whole chapters of that book came into being from

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Speaker 1: his questions. And then of course the book came out

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Speaker 1: and we went on tour to promote the book. That

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Speaker 1: clip you heard earlier is from our presentation the book Talk,

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Speaker 1: and this something you need to understand about how that

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Speaker 1: book Talk came together. That's kind of shaped all five

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Speaker 1: hundred episodes of the podcast that followed. Let's just say

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Speaker 1: like it wasn't very highly prepared. Basically, we waned it

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Speaker 1: every time personally, I wanted to plan it, to lay

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Speaker 1: it out and nail it down, because I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: a planner the way I balance everything in my life,

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Speaker 1: you know, an overwhelming academic job, a family, a podcast,

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Speaker 1: a TV show. Book writing is vie staying organized and

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Speaker 1: getting things done in advance. But for the book talk,

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Speaker 1: we just kind of had a rough idea of what

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Speaker 1: we wanted to say and we went for it. Kind

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Speaker 1: of terrified me, but you know what, it went pretty well.

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Speaker 1: All in all. We gave that talk more than fifty

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Speaker 1: times across the country. In the UK, we'd get a

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Speaker 1: talking fields and auditoriums filled with one thousand people, or

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Speaker 1: the tiny bookstores with a handful of eager listeners. And

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Speaker 1: because it wasn't superscripted, every single time it really was different.

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Speaker 1: There was always like some new joke or a new twist.

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Speaker 1: Maybe Jorge would like draw a silly doodle of me

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Speaker 1: making fun of me while I was speaking. The audience

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Speaker 1: would roar with laughter while I was totally clueless, or

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Speaker 1: I'd make some dumb physics dad joke to earn a

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Speaker 1: rueful chuckle. It turned out that we kind of had

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Speaker 1: a knack for a spontaneous humor, and we had a

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Speaker 1: good chemistry together. We were just more natural and sincere

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Speaker 1: when it wasn't tightly planned, because we just had fun

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Speaker 1: talking and joking about science. And that's where the podcast

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Speaker 1: was born. Two guys at a company called stuff Media

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Speaker 1: reached out to us about launching a podcast. This is

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Speaker 1: like twenty seventeen, a few years after podcasts had started

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Speaker 1: to take off, but before they were like really huge,

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Speaker 1: before everybody had a podcast, so it wasn't really something

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Speaker 1: on my radar yet, but I thought it was an

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Speaker 1: intriguing idea. The guys of stuff Media thought that we

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Speaker 1: had what a take to make a podcast work, so

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Speaker 1: to understand what they saw in us, I recently sat

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Speaker 1: down with Will Pearson, one of the guys who originally

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Speaker 1: recruited us into the podcast world, to hear about why

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Speaker 1: he thought our podcast might work and whether it's turned

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Speaker 1: out as he's planned in the time since his company

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Speaker 1: was bought by iHeartMedia and he now runs their podcast division.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty impressive. I mean, iHeart is the biggest podcasting

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Speaker 1: company on the planet, which means Will is basically the

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Speaker 1: worldwide president of podcasting. He's an important guy, but when

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Speaker 1: we spoke, he wasn't actually able to use his usual

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Speaker 1: quiet space for high quality audio recordings because his thirteen

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Speaker 1: year old son had and I'm quoting him here, a

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Speaker 1: very important gaming session. Here's my conversation with Will. Well,

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Speaker 1: thanks very much, Will forging to have a candid conversation

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Speaker 1: with me. First, introduce yourselves to our listeners, to one

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Speaker 1: of the many people behind the scenes that makes this happen.

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Speaker 1: But they don't know you, so tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about who you are.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Will Pearson. I run the podcast division here

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Speaker 3: at iHeart.

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Speaker 1: I was actually part of a.

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Speaker 3: Company called stuff Bedia or maybe more publicly known as

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Speaker 3: how Stuff Works a few years ago and we were

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Speaker 3: acquired by iHeartMedia or iHeartRadio to come on board and

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Speaker 3: run the podcast division here. But you know, we had

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Speaker 3: come out of a world of podcasts that we're all

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Speaker 3: very general knowledge driven.

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Speaker 1: Cool. Well, let's not understate your job. I mean iHeart

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Speaker 1: is like number one podcast company in the world and

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Speaker 1: you're heading up the podcast division there. That seems like

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Speaker 1: kind of a big deal.

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Speaker 3: It's you know, it's one of those things that because

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Speaker 3: it doesn't happen overnight, you really don't stop to think

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Speaker 3: about it, but yeah, I didn't know.

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Speaker 1: We're supposed to brag awesome. Well, podcasts are everywhere now

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Speaker 1: and everybody listens to podcast and sort of a big deal.

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Speaker 1: But take us back to like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen

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Speaker 1: when our podcast started. What was a podcast landscape like

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Speaker 1: back then? What kind of things were you looking for?

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Speaker 3: I think, first of all, the thing that drew me

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Speaker 3: to the podcast base, because that's right around the time

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Speaker 3: that I had joined and stuff media, as I mentioned before,

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Speaker 3: was around twenty seventeen, was the fact that it was

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Speaker 3: a medium built off of knowledge based shows, Like we

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Speaker 3: started seeing the biggest shows in the category were really

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Speaker 3: shows where people were coming to them because they wanted

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Speaker 3: to learn, They wanted to walk away feeling a little

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Speaker 3: bit smarter from whatever they were listening to. You could

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Speaker 3: find a great podcast for those, and that podcast sort

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Speaker 3: of stripped away the layers that you find in most

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Speaker 3: other medium and get down to the very basics of

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Speaker 3: a conversation.

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Speaker 1: Awesome, And so why did you reach out to us?

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Speaker 1: What did you see in us? Why did you think

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Speaker 1: that danie Le Jorge explain the universe? It might be

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Speaker 1: a good fit for your company.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, first of all, it was a category

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Speaker 3: that I've long been interested in, you know, the idea

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Speaker 3: of helping a general population or curious minds better understand

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Speaker 3: the universe, better understand astronomy. You know, as a kid,

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Speaker 3: was the nerd that was obsessed with you know, Carl

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Speaker 3: Sagan and Stephen Hawking and everything I could get my

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Speaker 3: hands on. That sort of made this category accessible, and

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Speaker 3: I just felt like that there was a larger population

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Speaker 3: that would be interested in this as well. You know,

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Speaker 3: we saw with the success of our House Stuff Works

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Speaker 3: line of shows that there really was a hunger for

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Speaker 3: good audio in the general knowledge space. And when we

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Speaker 3: saw we have no idea, we really felt like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: here are two guys that get it. You know, when

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Speaker 3: it's a rare moment that you find super smart people

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Speaker 3: that really know how to communicate with a general audience,

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Speaker 3: it feels like we're all in it together. It didn't

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Speaker 3: feel like you're being lectured to. It didn't feel like

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Speaker 3: you were just you know, had the pleasure of just

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Speaker 3: being with somebody that was one hundred times smarter than

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Speaker 3: you were. Like you guys obviously are incredibly intelligent, but

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Speaker 3: at the same time, it just feels like you're getting

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Speaker 3: the chance to listen in on a great conversation, and

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Speaker 3: we felt like there was that opportunity to create a

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Speaker 3: show with you two in a way that could do that.

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Speaker 3: And fortunately, the first time we heard you guys in

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Speaker 3: a pilot when we said, you know what, we think

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Speaker 3: this could be an interesting podcast. Let's have a conversation

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Speaker 3: about it. The first time you guys ever recorded, not

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Speaker 3: to say that it was perfect, but like you immediately

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Speaker 3: knew something was there, so we were super excited about it.

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Speaker 1: Wow awesome, And you know we've done five hundred episodes

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Speaker 1: now and the show has evolved and you know, gained

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Speaker 1: its own inside jokes and all sorts of stuff. Would

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Speaker 1: you say that it's like different from what you might

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Speaker 1: have predicted it turned into five years ago, or is

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Speaker 1: it mostly what you were looking for?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I would say, fortunately, it is what we

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Speaker 3: were looking for, because you know, we we try not

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Speaker 3: to be too prescriptive when we bring on a new podcast.

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Speaker 3: We know at the core what we were looking for

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Speaker 3: was something that could help curious minds better understand the

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Speaker 3: universe and also to feel like they were being entertained

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Speaker 3: when they listen to something and if you can find

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Speaker 3: the right blend there sort of walking that line in

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Speaker 3: a really small, a't way, I think you know, you've

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Speaker 3: got a hit show on your hands. And so we

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Speaker 3: didn't know exactly what it was going to sound like,

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Speaker 3: but the vibe and the sort of effect of the

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Speaker 3: show was exactly what we were going for. So no,

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Speaker 3: I think the show is exactly what we wanted to be.

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Speaker 3: I had no idea that it would run five hundred episodes,

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Speaker 3: but that's been part of the beauty of shows of

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Speaker 3: this type is that listeners fall in love with the hosts,

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Speaker 3: with the concept and just stick with it. And so

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Speaker 3: so it's been a blast to just watch it. I

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Speaker 3: didn't know that it would be as big as it

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Speaker 3: is because it felt like, Okay, this is a category

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Speaker 3: that maybe will be a little more niche. But you know,

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Speaker 3: you've got hundreds of thousands of people listening to every

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Speaker 3: single episode, which is just amazing.

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Speaker 1: It feels like a huge privilege to me that all

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Speaker 1: those folks aren't trusting us with their time and energy.

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Speaker 1: So I'm really grateful. Well, thanks very much, Will for

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Speaker 1: sharing your perspective and for having that faith in us

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Speaker 1: to create this thing. I'm always touched that so many

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Speaker 1: people who make these shows happened were themselves inspired by

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Speaker 1: something earlier. It's just like feeds forward. You know, you

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Speaker 1: were inspired by Carl Sagan. You help make something which

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Speaker 1: I hope will inspire somebody else out there to make

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Speaker 1: something else beautiful.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I appreciate that, And congratulations to you guys. It's

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Speaker 3: no big surprise to me that you've been successful.

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Speaker 1: But I love it.

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Speaker 3: I love that we get to partner with you guys,

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Speaker 3: and look forward to being back on for episode one thousand.

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Speaker 1: All right, awesome, thanks very much. Will So Will thought

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Speaker 1: that Jorge and I had a chemistry together and a

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Speaker 1: knack for explaining this stuff and decided to give us

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Speaker 1: a chance. But you might also wonder, and many people

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Speaker 1: have asked me this, what made me want to do this?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I already had a more than full time

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Speaker 1: job as a physicist and have young kids at home,

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Speaker 1: and most academics are already like drowning in work and emails.

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Speaker 1: Why take on this other new thing? So when we

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Speaker 1: come back from the break, we'll talk about that, and

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Speaker 1: we'll hear from other physicists in the podcast space. And

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Speaker 1: why they do it, and I'll take you through how

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Speaker 1: we go from idea to episode twice a week in

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Speaker 1: a way that doesn't break my calendar or ruin my marriage. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're back with our special behind the scenes episode or

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Speaker 1: the podcast to give you a glimpse into the origin

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Speaker 1: of the show and how it's put together. But I

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Speaker 1: haven't told you yet. Probably the most important thing to me,

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Speaker 1: at least, which is why I do the show. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't because I liked talking science with the Jorge, though

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Speaker 1: of course I do, or because it was a fun

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Speaker 1: new adventure, which it was, Or because I might make

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Speaker 1: some cash, though I have nothing against cash. Deep down,

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Speaker 1: It's really because I just wanted to share my joy

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Speaker 1: with you all. There are these moments when you study

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Speaker 1: physics that an idea clicks in your mind and you're

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Speaker 1: just shaken with the power of it. A veal is

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Speaker 1: pulled back and you have a new view of the

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Speaker 1: entire universe. You thought it worked like this, but then

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Speaker 1: it turns out you were looking at it backwards or

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Speaker 1: upside down, or missing ninety five percent of the picture,

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Speaker 1: or trying to read it in the wrong language. And

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Speaker 1: when you see it the right way, it connects in

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Speaker 1: this beautiful way that makes you want to like shout

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Speaker 1: with joy and whisper in reverence. At the same time.

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Speaker 1: I'm not personally a very religious person, but those moments

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Speaker 1: of deep understanding, those are the most spiritual moments of

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Speaker 1: my life. When I feel like I've glimpsed something deeply true,

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Speaker 1: I've seen behind the scenes. You know, when you realize, oh,

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Speaker 1: light is a wiggle in these fields, or oh, electricity

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Speaker 1: and magnetism is just one big idea clicks together, or wow,

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Speaker 1: group theory describes a relationship between the particles. Or wow,

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Speaker 1: forces only exist to preserve the gage symmetries of that

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Speaker 1: group theory, or oh, our laws only apply to the

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Speaker 1: current phase of the universe. Or wow, there isn't one

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Speaker 1: single clock for the universe, there are infinite series of clocks,

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Speaker 1: a new single history of events. Or oh, my gosh,

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Speaker 1: the speed limit of the universe comes naturally from this

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Speaker 1: new way of thinking about space. All of these moments

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Speaker 1: which I had as I was learning physics were so delicious,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to share those because they're wonderful. They're

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Speaker 1: like drinks from the cup of the universe oracle, and

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Speaker 1: I felt like, there's a lot of great science communication

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Speaker 1: out there, but this wasn't out there yet. I didn't

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Speaker 1: find these moments that sheer joy, that deep understanding in

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Speaker 1: the pop side books I read, or in the podcast

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Speaker 1: that I listened to. And there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: great podcasts and books out there, but none were doing

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Speaker 1: what I thought needed to be done and saying it

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Speaker 1: in the way that I thought it should be said.

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Speaker 1: I've heard once that startup founders are often people who

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Speaker 1: are annoyed that nobody's doing something the right way, so

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Speaker 1: they feel this deep need to start a business to

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Speaker 1: do it right. And frankly, that's kind of how I felt.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to share these moments in physics and do

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Speaker 1: it in a deep way, one that doesn't gloss over

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Speaker 1: with the same tired pop side analogies and doesn't say,

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Speaker 1: trust me, the math works, but I can't explain it

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Speaker 1: any further. I wanted to really communicate the intuitive understanding

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Speaker 1: that the math, and I also felt a little bit

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Speaker 1: like it was part of my job. I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: a professor at a public university, and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: help share this joy with the public, not just with

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Speaker 1: the students who happened to end up in my classroom.

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Speaker 1: This is something that belongs to everyone, and I hope

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Speaker 1: that my way of talking and thinking about it might

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Speaker 1: click with someone out there and encourage their curiosity or

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Speaker 1: inspire them to study physics and help humanity crack this

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Speaker 1: giant puzzle we call the universe. The way Will had

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Speaker 1: been inspired by previous generations of science communications. It didn't

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Speaker 1: turn him into a physicist, but it motivated him to

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Speaker 1: put money and resources behind another educational physics podcast. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was going to take some time, and you'll hear

435
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,399
Speaker 1: in a bit about how we try to run a

436
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 1: streamlined operation. But for me, the fundamental motivation was that

437
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 1: I feel super lucky to get to do these things

438
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,919
Speaker 1: for a living, and I wanted to connect with people

439
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 1: out there whose lives took other paths but still felt

440
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: a yearning to understand and wanted more of that joy

441
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 1: of deep connection with the universe. To understand whether this

442
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: was like a typical feeling or podcast origin story. I

443
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 1: reached out to some fellow science podcasters to ask them

444
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: about why and how they put their podcast together and

445
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: how they got started. Here's Sean Carroll, well known author

446
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 1: and podcaster. Well, actually, let me let him introduce himself.

447
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 4: I'm just a person trying to understand how the universe

448
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 4: works in various ways and trying to share whatever I

449
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 4: figure out with other people. So my title is hilarious.

450
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 4: My official title is Homewood Professor of Natural Philosophy at

451
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 4: Johns Hopkins University and Fractal Faculty at the Santa Fe Institute.

452
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 4: So that's a mouthful and it captures the fact that

453
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 4: here at Johns Hopkins I serve both as a physicist

454
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 4: and a philosopher, and at Santa Fe I can think

455
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 4: about complexity in the wider world. And of course, in

456
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 4: addition to my day job as a professor and researcher,

457
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 4: I also write books and give talks, and I have

458
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 4: a podcast called Mindscape.

459
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 1: I also talked to Dan Hooper and Shalma Wegsman, hosts

460
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: of Why This Universe, another of my favorite podcasts.

461
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 5: I'm Shalma. I'm one of us two co hosts of

462
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 5: Why This Universe, and I also edit and produce it.

463
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 5: And so I guess a little bit about me. My

464
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 5: day job right now is actually I work in video games.

465
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 5: My backgrounds and physics obviously, I have a master as

466
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 5: I started my PhD, but I left academia to pursue

467
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 5: some like more media related interests of mine.

468
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 6: I'm Dan Hooper. I have a research position at the

469
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 6: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, so this is kind of the

470
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 6: US premiere particle physics lab. And I also have a

471
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 6: professorship at the Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics at University

472
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 6: of Chicago. So I teach some classes, I advise grad

473
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 6: students that sort of thing, and generally just do research

474
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 6: on kind of the interface of particle physics in cosmology,

475
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 6: so some hey energy astrophysics, some early universe stuff. Dark

476
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 6: matter is kind of the thing I'm most known for.

477
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 6: Those are the sorts of things that keep me up

478
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 6: at night.

479
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 1: So then I asked John why he spends his very

480
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: valuable time on a podcast.

481
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 4: Anytime that someone asks why I do something, the honest

482
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 4: answer is because I think it's fun, unless it's something

483
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 4: that I just literally need to do for other obligation purposes.

484
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 4: So when I wrote a book of mine called The

485
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 4: Big Picture back in twenty sixteen, it was about many

486
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,239
Speaker 4: different topics, including philosophy and neuroscience and biology, and I

487
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 4: got to, you know, email big names in different fields

488
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 4: and say hey, could we chat. I'm writing a book.

489
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 4: You know, the book was sort of a license to

490
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 4: get me into their offices and have them give me

491
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 4: some time. And then the book went away. I finished

492
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 4: with it, and I no longer had a reason to

493
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 4: call people up and talk to them. And so someone

494
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 4: pointed out that if I had a podcast, I could

495
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 4: do that, And so really, for me, my benefit of

496
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 4: the podcast is that I get to talk to a

497
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 4: bunch of people who are very smart and interesting in

498
00:24:58,440 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 4: very different fields.

499
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 5: Yours, Dan and shelma answering the same question, I mean,

500
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 5: I love it as a way to keep my foot

501
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 5: in the physics store, in the physics world, you know,

502
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 5: stay really like on top of physics. Yeah.

503
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 6: So, I mean, I'm always been a person who has

504
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 6: like their main, you know, day job, and then a

505
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 6: bunch of side projects. I'm a side project guy. So

506
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 6: in physics that might be writing books, and I've written several.

507
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 6: I'm in the process of finishing a graduate level textbook

508
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 6: now that's my current side project. I play music, so

509
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 6: I'm always in a band or two and blank shows

510
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 6: and working on that. And some years ago, like I

511
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 6: just was a big consumer of podcasts.

512
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: I listened to a lot of them.

513
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 6: And I thought there was space in the podcast you know,

514
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 6: ecosystem for something different in the physics science area.

515
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: I also asked Katie Golden, who you know as a

516
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: frequent guest host on this podcast, how she got into podcasting.

517
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 7: Actually, we had no idea I would was going to

518
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 7: get into podcasting. I had always kind of secretly wanted to.

519
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 7: When I started listening to podcasts, it just seemed like

520
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 7: so fun to have these kinds of conversations. So I

521
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 7: got into comedy educational writing for a online magazine called Cracked,

522
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 7: and then after that I kind of just like got

523
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 7: approach to come up with an idea for a podcast.

524
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: Because you're a funny person, because.

525
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 7: You're yeah, I mean it's because I kept harassing people

526
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 7: until no.

527
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 8: I yeah.

528
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 7: Actually, well, actually the whole way I got started in

529
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 7: comedy writing was a Twitter account, which sounds kind of lame.

530
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: Oh yes, the well born Twitter bird parody, Acount two

531
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 1: podcast pipeline exactly exactly.

532
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 7: It's actually it's a very bizarre path one that I

533
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 7: I It was not like a grand scheme or a

534
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 7: grand plan. I never planned at all. It was just hey,

535
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 7: I like this thing, and hey I like that thing,

536
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 7: much like a small bird getting distracted by shiny objects.

537
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I actually did some research for this

538
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: interview because you and I actually know a few people

539
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: randomly in common.

540
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 7: Oh really.

541
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 1: I spoke to somebody who went to college with you.

542
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: What and she said, quote, Katie seemed very quiet in college,

543
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: so I was sort of surprised when she became a podcaster.

544
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 2: She's great, who said this?

545
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: This is my friend Jane Baldwin was a professor here

546
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: at UC Irvine.

547
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 7: I know Jane Baldwin.

548
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 4: What the heck?

549
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 7: I was a bridesmaid with her.

550
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 9: What the heck?

551
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 7: I am? Wow, this is I was not expecting to

552
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 7: like have basically a Jerry Springer moment here.

553
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 1: And I asked Sean what keeps him going after several

554
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: years of podcasting?

555
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 4: I have a lot of support I got I have

556
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 4: both as and you know, Patreon supporters, and so now

557
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 4: I get paid to do the podcast. And so I

558
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 4: say this as a joke, but it's totally true, Like

559
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 4: the money that comes through to there keeps me going

560
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 4: at the podcast. Like I could much more easily give

561
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 4: it up if I just you know, I like doing it,

562
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 4: so I'm not trying to imply that i want to

563
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 4: give it up. But sometimes it's work and I have

564
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 4: other things to do.

565
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's a good point. We all have other

566
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: things to do. Sean and Dan, like me, are also

567
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: full time physicists. I personally run a research group of

568
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: around twelve thirteen people, meaning I'm responsible for finding funding

569
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: for them and leading their research and guiding their careers.

570
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: And we're pretty productive little group. We put out ten

571
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: to twelve papers every year. Top of that, I teach

572
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: three classes here at u SEE Irvine, which is no

573
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: small time commitment. And you might have heard that Jorge

574
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: and I were also creating and launching a public television

575
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: science show during this time. So when we were thinking

576
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: about taking this on, I wanted to make sure that

577
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: I could do it while managing everything else going on.

578
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: For me, that meant leaning heavily on what we learned

579
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: during our book talk, which means winging it. The podcast

580
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: was going to have to be unscripted, relying on us

581
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: to say interesting things in the moment based on a

582
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: very rough outline, and relying on our editor Corey to

583
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: clean it up and make it all sound good. You'll

584
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: hear from him in a minute what that's like and

585
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: how hard it is. I think that this makes our

586
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: podcast different from a lot of others that you might

587
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: listen to this American Life Radio lab. Most of these

588
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: podcasts are scripted. They write down what they're going to say.

589
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: Here's a conversation I had with Joel Werner, supervising producer

590
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: on the very well produced podcast Science Versus. So thanks

591
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: very much for having a chat with me. First, I

592
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: want to ask you to introduce yourself. What are your titles,

593
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: what's your background? How do you describe yourself?

594
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, thanks for having me on the show. My name's

595
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 10: Joel Werner. I'm a science journalist. I've been a science

596
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 10: journalist for like a long time now.

597
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: Over a decade.

598
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 10: I'm the supervising producer at Science Versus. And before that

599
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 10: I worked at the ABC, the Australian ABC, SO which

600
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 10: is like the BBC for the bottom side of the world,

601
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 10: not like the ABC in America.

602
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: There's no top side and bottom side. This is true.

603
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 10: As soon as I came out of my mouth, I

604
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 10: was like, Wow, this is bait tour to someone like you.

605
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: So you're a science journalist at heart. How did you

606
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: get into podcasting and how did you end up working

607
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: on Science Versus?

608
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 10: Just earlier this year, joined Wendy and the team at

609
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 10: Science Versus, which is as Science Versus has been one

610
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 10: of my favorite podcasts for a long time. So yeah,

611
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 10: big dream to come and work with that team.

612
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: Well, that's so exciting when people get to like live

613
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: their dreams. So tell us about the team there, because

614
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: our podcast has a very small team. It's basically just

615
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: a couple of hosts and editor and our producers don't

616
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: like get very involved in the creative stuff. The sense

617
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: just from looking at your website you have a much

618
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: more extensive team over there. How big is what are

619
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: the various roles? How does that all work?

620
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's a bigger team than I've ever worked one

621
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 10: before to make a show. So Wendy Zuckerman, she created

622
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 10: the show, she's the executive producer, she's the host, she's

623
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 10: our north star. You know, I feel like Wendy lives

624
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 10: and breathes Science Versus and really kind of understands the

625
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 10: program brief like so deeply, which is really great coming

626
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 10: onto a show. It's wonderful to have someone who just

627
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 10: understands the DNA of that show like Wendy does. Blithe

628
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 10: Terrell is our editor, so blithe so has that sort

629
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 10: of like really zoomed out editorial eye over literally everything

630
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 10: to do with the show. She's kind of like the

631
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 10: stop gap for any of those tricky editorial moments, and

632
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 10: she just also like kind of is the glue that

633
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 10: holds the team together.

634
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: What's a tricky editorial moment? Ah, good question.

635
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 10: Let me think about one from my episode. Okay, So

636
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 10: I did an episode about AI and in a storyline

637
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 10: that didn't actually end up making it to air, there

638
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 10: was a question about whether I could make one of

639
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 10: my sources anonymous, so all of that kind of stuff.

640
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 10: Then there's a team of producers. So, like I said,

641
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 10: I'm the supervising producer. We have a couple of senior producers,

642
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 10: Merril Horn and Rose Rimmler. Michelle Dang is a producer,

643
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 10: and then we have an We've had an intern Ari

644
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 10: Nadowitz as well. So yeah, like kind of a big

645
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 10: production team as well. And usually, like producers, Wendy and

646
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 10: the producers each kind of lead an episode.

647
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: So tell us about how an episode comes together. I

648
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: was listening to the startup podcast about how Gimlet Media

649
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: came together, and there's a moment there where Bloomberg calls

650
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: Gimlet Media shows quote obsessively crafted and highly produced. Tell

651
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: us what that means.

652
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's true, that's very true. So like from yeah,

653
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 10: like how the sausage is made right, Like, let's start

654
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 10: start at the beginning of the production line. So we're

655
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 10: kind of in that moment now, Like we're in between

656
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 10: seasons at the moment, so everyone's working on pitches for

657
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 10: the new season, and so that's a lot of firstly,

658
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 10: like idea generation, Like I'm sure all of the producers,

659
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 10: like I have a list, I have a kind of

660
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 10: rolling Google doc of story ideas that I want to cover,

661
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 10: and I'm sure all the producers have something similar. And

662
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 10: so then it's kind of like picking something to focus on.

663
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 10: It might be like there's something in the zeitgeist, there's

664
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 10: something happening now as there is, and you're choosing it.

665
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 10: There's some really interesting research choosing that going and chatting

666
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 10: to a bunch of people. So I'm working on a

667
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 10: story idea at the moment, I probably emailed about like

668
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 10: I don't know, like twenty ish people yesterday, I'm lining

669
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 10: up a whole bunch of conversations over the next few weeks,

670
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 10: like doing all of those background chats to develop a pitch.

671
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 11: Then we pitched that idea to the team. The pitch

672
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 11: either gets.

673
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 10: Like greenlit, that sounds great, go ahead, it gets rejected

674
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 10: we don't like the idea for this reason, go and

675
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 10: find another idea, or there's an amble light as well,

676
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 10: where it's like, yeah, we think this could work, but

677
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 10: like you might need to do X, Y and Z

678
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 10: to get it across the line.

679
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 1: So does that mean that you're doing a whole bunch

680
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: of interviews before you even know what story you're telling.

681
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: You're just like going out there and doing basic journalism

682
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: like what's going on here? Looking for a story to emerge.

683
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 10: Yeap, doing background interviews like reading papers, like reading lots

684
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 10: and lots of papers.

685
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 1: And are you recording those background interviews? Do they ever

686
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: end up in the actual show?

687
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 12: Like not for me.

688
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 10: I'm sure there have been instances where a background interview

689
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 10: has ended up in the show, But for like the

690
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 10: AI episode I did last season, I interviewed up with

691
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 10: the twenty people on background, and then I probably did

692
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 10: formal interviews with about five of those people, and about

693
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 10: three of those interviews made it into the show, So

694
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 10: there's a lot of a lot of work going on

695
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 10: behind the scenes. It's the classic you know, like the

696
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 10: dark top of the water looks very calm, but underneath

697
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 10: the water the lexa, the Lexa swimming frantically.

698
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: So does that mean that you've done all the research

699
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: to get sort of the rough outline of the story

700
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: and then you do the sort of final interviews those interviews.

701
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: Are you trying to get people to say the things

702
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: you need them to say to tell the story you

703
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: want to say, or are you still doing some.

704
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 10: Exploration, like a bit of both, a bit of both,

705
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 10: Like usually by that stage, well you know the story

706
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 10: that got green with I'm terribly bad at phishing in interviews,

707
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 10: so I'm a big tangent explorer, and if there's any

708
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 10: I'll follow any loose thread and just pull and pull

709
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 10: and pull in any interview. So it's about getting that

710
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 10: information on tape, But it's also about, like, especially for

711
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 10: a show like Science Versus, it's trying to get those

712
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 10: moments captured on tape. So more than information, it's about

713
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:57,399
Speaker 10: like trying to have a moment that's funny or enlightening

714
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 10: or meaningful or like something that one of those we

715
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 10: call them like lean in moments, Right, So you're trying

716
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 10: to kind of like have those very human moments that

717
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 10: as a listener to podcast, you're like, oh wow, okay,

718
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 10: this is getting juicy. Now I want to know what's

719
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 10: going on. And so we're trying to trying to get

720
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 10: those moments on tape, because that's the thing you can't,

721
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 10: Like we can go and read a paper and we

722
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 10: can write a few lines that fill in a factory

723
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 10: point that we need, but you can't manufacture those like

724
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 10: kind of very human moments that you have in interviews.

725
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: And then the episode itself is structured with all these interviews,

726
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: but then there's a lot of narration. Wendy does some

727
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: you know, talking to the audience. Is that part scripted?

728
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: Is that written before she reads it? Does she ever

729
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 1: go off script?

730
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 13: Yeah?

731
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 10: So basically, like once we've done the interviews, we have

732
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 10: like hours and hours of tape, we go and edit

733
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 10: that tape and structure it out in like how we

734
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 10: think the interview is going to go in the past,

735
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 10: how it happened, was that like Wendy and the producer

736
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 10: would then write script for her to read. But this season,

737
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 10: we've changed the way that we work and we're now

738
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 10: doing all of that in conversation. So it's not like

739
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 10: it's not scripted scripted, it's like, we'll have dot points,

740
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 10: we'll go, Okay, this is what we want to achieve

741
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 10: in this section. But then like you and I are

742
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 10: speaking now without a script. Sorry to break the illusion

743
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 10: for anyone listening that this isn't heavily scripted, but yeah,

744
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 10: like and then we'll we'll go through and we'll we'll

745
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 10: like have that conversation and again trying to capture those

746
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 10: really human moments.

747
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: Wow, and so you boil down a huge amount of

748
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: information into these fairly compact episodes. Well, it's great to

749
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: hear that the climate of podcasting is moving towards conversation

750
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: because we can't do scripted podcasts. We don't have the time,

751
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: and we're also not very good at reading scripts. I mean,

752
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: nobody could write the kind of terrible jokes that we

753
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: make anyway. They only work if they're spontaneous. Tell me

754
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 1: about the process of vetting the episodes, because you've talked

755
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: to a bunch of experts and then you boil it

756
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: down and we all know that like the process of

757
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: explaining science in general public involves, you know, simplifications and approximation.

758
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: Do you then go and make sure that your final

759
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: output doesn't make the experts queasy, you send it back

760
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: out to them and ask them for opinions.

761
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 10: I mean, I think as a science journalist, like the

762
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 10: biggest strength of Science Versus is just the depth of

763
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 10: research that the show engages in. So like everywhere I've

764
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 10: worked has always had quite rigorous fact checking, Like you

765
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 10: kind of don't put anything out with at least getting

766
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 10: you know, another expert in the field, an independent expert

767
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 10: to vet the person that you're talking to and to

768
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,479
Speaker 10: kind of like you might give someone a call and go, look,

769
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 10: these ideas aren't super fringy, are they, you know, just

770
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 10: to kind of look for those red flags. But for

771
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 10: Science Versus, Like, I mean, there's a citation count at

772
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 10: the end of each episode, we're routinely referencing like hundreds

773
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 10: of research papers literally everything in the show, Like as

774
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 10: we're building the script where footnoting and you can see

775
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 10: these scripts. There's a link to the transcripts in the

776
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 10: show notes of each episode and so you can go

777
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,439
Speaker 10: through and see like literally every point we make has

778
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 10: to be backed up by some piece of research. And

779
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 10: then we have an independent fact checker for each episode

780
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 10: as well, So they come on for the episode for

781
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 10: a week. They're not connected to the team, they don't like,

782
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 10: you know, they're not part of the kind of production process.

783
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 10: So they come in cold and they're a professional fact checker.

784
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,919
Speaker 10: So they go through the script and they look at

785
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 10: the referencing, and they ask really hard questions and they

786
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 10: put they push us to be kind of really definitive

787
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 10: about everything that we're saying and how we're supporting it

788
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 10: and and yeah, like I said, it's the thing that

789
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 10: Science Versus does that no other show I've worked on,

790
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 10: Like I've worked on a bunch of shows, and like

791
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 10: nothing else has ever come to the level of fact

792
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,959
Speaker 10: checking that this show does. And yeah, I'm really proud

793
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 10: to be part of it now because it's you know,

794
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 10: I think it does that thing that that science does

795
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 10: so well. It kind of brings in evidence base to

796
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:05,439
Speaker 10: the thing you're trying to explain to the world. And yeah, yeah,

797
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 10: I think this show does it really well.

798
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, Wow, congratulations, that's an amazing process. It sounds like

799
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: it's more deeply vetted than probably a lot of the

800
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 1: papers you're relying.

801
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 10: I was joking to my wife, I was saying, like, wow,

802
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 10: every episode feels like a litter review fasis. I'm like,

803
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 10: should we just go and get a pitchd now.

804
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: Well, thanks for all the work that you do and

805
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: for Science Versus and for taking some time to talk

806
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: to me. It's been very educational.

807
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 10: Look, thank you for your podcast as well. I think

808
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 10: the more science podcasts we have in the world the better.

809
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 10: And yeah, it's a real pleasure to come and chat

810
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 10: to you today.

811
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 1: Wonderful. Thank you. So, as you heard from that conversation,

812
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: they have a big team. They do huge amounts of

813
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: background research and piece the episode together from an enormous

814
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: number of hours and hours of conversation. But we can't

815
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: do that on this show. We just don't have the

816
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: staff or frankly, the free time. We're literally just recording

817
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: two guys having a conversation about science that I roughly

818
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: sketched out, and then leaning heavily on our editor to

819
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: clean it up and pull it together. Mindscape, Sean Carroll's

820
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: podcast is even more extreme. Sean told me he's just

821
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: a team of one. He does it all, from research

822
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 1: to editing. Here's Sean talking about how an episode comes together.

823
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 4: Forgot the part where I do research. You know, sometimes

824
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 4: I don't need to when I'm talking to someone who

825
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 4: is in my field and I can just talk with them.

826
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 4: But if I'm talking to someone in economics or neuroscience,

827
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 4: I need to read their book or whatever. Hopefully that

828
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 4: doesn't take too long. If it's too much, then and

829
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 4: I won't have them on in the first place, and

830
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 4: then I edited together. It's usually not that much. I'm

831
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 4: not even listening, honestly to the whole podcast. I just

832
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 4: don't have time or patients to do that. But I

833
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,240
Speaker 4: will listen to enough of it to get a feeling

834
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 4: for the audio quality.

835
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: So Sean just records natural conversations and edits them together.

836
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: Dan and Shawma from Why This Universe have a slightly

837
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: more involved production process.

838
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 6: In my desk drawer my home office, I have a

839
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 6: list of like maybe future Why This Universe episodes from

840
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 6: these brainstorming sessions. But then like I'll pick one of

841
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 6: them and I'll spend a week or two kind of

842
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 6: researching it. Some of these things I already know a

843
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 6: lot about and like researching it really is just kind

844
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 6: of like writing down my thoughts and like I put

845
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 6: it down, like just type a bunch of things down

846
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 6: in a word file, and I kind of use that

847
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 6: as notes.

848
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, often I'm like asking questions. I'm trying to kind

849
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 5: of predict what people's reactions will be, where confusions will

850
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 5: come up. You know, sometimes we'll say something and I'm like, wait,

851
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 5: that like might confuse people based on things we've said

852
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 5: in the past, you know, things like that, And then

853
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,959
Speaker 5: I we like discuss ways to clarify things, add things.

854
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 5: I like give myself notes so often I'm the parts

855
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 5: that I add in. I often add in after this conversations.

856
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: So now you've heard a little bit about the production

857
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: process on other podcasts, from the one man show of

858
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: Mindscape to the small team of Why This Universe and

859
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: the large team at Science Versus. So now let's get

860
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: into the nitty gritty of how an episode of Daniel

861
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe is made. First, I find

862
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: a topic. I have this file on my computer which

863
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: is just a raw list of ideas. Every time I

864
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: get a flash of inspiration or hear about a new

865
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: cool result, or get a suggestion from a listener, or

866
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: think about a moment when I was a student where

867
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: understanding you just click together and I feel like I

868
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: learned something deep about the universe. They just go on

869
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: the raw ideal list. I probably add like five ideas

870
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: every week, but not everything on that raw list makes

871
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: it out of the show. Then at the start of

872
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,919
Speaker 1: each week, I look through the list and I pick

873
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: three to go into the official rotation. It just depends on,

874
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,720
Speaker 1: you know, what I'm in the mood to talk about,

875
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 1: or think about or feel inspired to explain. So, for example,

876
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,439
Speaker 1: this week, the three on the top of the raw

877
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: pile were these questions one what is a maser? Two?

878
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: How were neutrinos discovered? And three is Helion's fusion technology realistic?

879
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: And honestly, I don't even remember putting those questions on

880
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: the list, but they sounded good to me, so they

881
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: went into the back of the rotation. The next step

882
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: is to get the listener feedback. This is one of

883
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: my favorite parts of the podcast. Early on, I just

884
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: wanted to get a feeling for what the general public

885
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: might know about a particular topic and might want to

886
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: hear about, so that I could pitch the show at

887
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: the right level, make sure I didn't go too shallow

888
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: or too deep. So at first I was just walking

889
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: around campus here you see Irvin and asking people the

890
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: question of the episode, to see what they said and

891
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: what they knew, you know. The responses that were always

892
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: wonderful to listen to and often way off, but they

893
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: were always entertaining, and listeners really responded to this segment.

894
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: A few wrote in to say that they wish they

895
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: were on campus when I was walking around so they

896
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 1: could get a chance, And so I started occasionally including

897
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: listener responses via email. Then, of course the pandemic hit

898
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: and campus and everything else closed down, and so I

899
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: reached out to a bunch of listeners over email to

900
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: invite them to participate, and started to solicit volunteers on

901
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: the podcast, and suddenly we were hearing from people all

902
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: over the world. I loved it. It was like a

903
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: little glimp send to all of these people's lives, people

904
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: who are listening to our podcast and wanting to talk

905
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: back to us a little bit. And now, of course,

906
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 1: you see Irvine is open again. But frankly, I prefer

907
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: to be pulling our listeners because I love that it

908
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: makes the podcast be too directional. I get to hear

909
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: back from you, and you all get to hear a

910
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 1: little bit from each other. So I send the questions

911
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 1: out to whoever volunteers that week, but the questions I'm

912
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: asking people one week won't appear on the show for

913
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 1: months and months. Sometimes listeners respond within a day, sometimes

914
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: they take weeks or months to get back to me.

915
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: And so while listeners feedback is trickling in for an

916
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: episode on the back of the rotation, I start working

917
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: on episodes to record that week, Taking two episodes from

918
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: the front of the rotation. The episodes we're going to

919
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: record that week join the back of the list many

920
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: many weeks ago, so I already have listener comments to

921
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 1: help me shape those episodes. The number of topics currently

922
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: in the rotation between the front where episodes are being

923
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: recorded in the back, where new episodes are being added

924
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: and listener are being queried, is about one hundred episodes.

925
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 1: That's the year's worth of episodes I already have roughly

926
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: planned out. I need that kind of buffer in case

927
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: something else happens in my life that demands all my attention,

928
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: because I never want to be scrambling to come up

929
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: with episode ideas. So this week, at the very front

930
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: of the rotation are these questions, one why do moving

931
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: objects look shorter? And two how do we measure the

932
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: mass of the Higgs? The next step for me is

933
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: to write an outline. This is like two pages, and

934
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: I usually organize it in a few sections, starting with

935
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: like what is the thing we're talking about? And then

936
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 1: how does it work? And ending with what does it mean?

937
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: But the outline is not a script at all. It's

938
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: just a few bullet points with what I think are

939
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: the most interesting bits, some basic science explainer. And when

940
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,959
Speaker 1: I'm preparing an episode, the part that I think most

941
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 1: about is not the physics, not like how does it work?

942
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: But how to explain it? Try to think about the

943
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: analogies I'll use to convey these ideas. I'll try to

944
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 1: think about how to walk people through so the idea

945
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: is click together in their minds and really make sense.

946
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: And then I try to anticipate what Orge might ask,

947
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: what might be confusing or need another analogy to back

948
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 1: it up. At this point, after so many years of

949
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: talking to him, I have something like a little mini

950
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,479
Speaker 1: simulated hooge in my brain, and I ask simulated Jorge

951
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: to suggest what real Hogey might ask me, so I

952
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 1: can try to prepare myself, and then I think about

953
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: ways to answer those questions without just saying, look, it's

954
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: in the math, or trust me. Try to think of

955
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: ways to really convey those ideas. Because to explain something

956
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: in a clear way that's simple and understandable, you have

957
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,879
Speaker 1: to understand it like two or three or four, five

958
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 1: levels deeper. So you can come up with analogies that

959
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: capture that intuitive understanding, but don't oversimplify it and don't

960
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: mislead anybody. Preparing the outline isn't always a lot of work.

961
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: Sometimes I can sit down and write it down in

962
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: ten minutes. If it's something I know back to front,

963
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 1: like the Higgs mass episode, I know all about how

964
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,919
Speaker 1: we measure the massive particles. I think about it every day.

965
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: I'm deeply engaged in it, so that just took a

966
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: few minutes.

967
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 8: Really.

968
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: Sometimes if an episode is more common plex and it's

969
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 1: on a topic that I don't think about every day,

970
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: like when we talked about spinning black holes or black

971
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: holes with electric charges, then I'll go and talk to

972
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: somebody in my department here at you see Irvine, who

973
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: knows more about it, and a frequent target of my

974
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 1: questions is my colleague Arvind, who knows a lot about

975
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 1: black holes in general relativity. But I also walk down

976
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: the hall and talk to condensed matter experts when we

977
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: talk about things like band gaps and superconductors and semiconductors,

978
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,879
Speaker 1: and that part is super fun for me because I'm

979
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 1: interested in all these areas of physics, and I haven't

980
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,479
Speaker 1: always had an opportunity or an excuse to dig into them,

981
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: so it's really a pleasure to carve out a little

982
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: bit of time to read some papers on these other

983
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: topics and educate myself. For me, the hardest part of

984
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 1: preparing an episode is the cold open, those first few

985
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: moments of the podcast where we introduce a topic and

986
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: make a couple of jokes. That's the only scripted part

987
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: of the podcast, and that's why it's so hard. Coming

988
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: up with a new, silly way to start the podcast

989
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: after hundreds of episodes can really be a challenge, and

990
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: so for me, it's always the last part of the

991
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: outline I write. So I prepared the outline and I

992
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: send it to Jorge or to Katie or to Kelly

993
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: the night before we record, and you'll hear from them

994
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: in a minute about how they prepare and their process

995
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 1: and experience. Then it's time to record an episode. Jorge

996
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,919
Speaker 1: lives in Pasadena, Katie lives in Italy, and Kelly lives

997
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,760
Speaker 1: in Virginia, so we're never sitting together in the same room. Instead,

998
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: I call them up when we have a conversation, and

999
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: we each record our audio locally personally. My setup is

1000
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: a nice microphone, the Sure SM seven B, which I'm

1001
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: told is the same microphone that Michael Jackson used to

1002
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: record Thriller, Not of course the same microphone, but the

1003
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 1: same model. During the pandemic, I used to record at

1004
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: home in my closet, but now record here in my

1005
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 1: office at UC Irvine. So we sit down and we

1006
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: start recording, and the outline is there to give the

1007
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: other host an idea of where I wanted to go.

1008
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 1: But we never feel limited by it. Sometimes we only

1009
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: get halfway through it because we spend most of the

1010
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: episode on the what is it part or backing up

1011
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: to explain something subtle and basic but really important. And

1012
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: you know, I love that my co hosts do this,

1013
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: that they take us off the outline when something needs

1014
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: to be explained, because I feel like often they're standing

1015
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,479
Speaker 1: in for the audience, making sure to ask a question

1016
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: when I haven't been clear enough, or when something seems

1017
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 1: obvious to me as a physicist but really needs a

1018
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: few more dots to connect in the minds of listeners.

1019
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: And lots and lots of listeners have written in to

1020
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: say very specifically thank you to Jorge and Katie and

1021
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,919
Speaker 1: Kelly for asking the exact questions they had in their

1022
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 1: mind when I explained something. So I think the unscripted

1023
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 1: nature of the podcast is key. It makes those conversations real,

1024
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: and also it makes it a lot less work to prepare.

1025
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: It also makes for moments like this where I'm trying

1026
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: to steer us back to the physics without much luck.

1027
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: What's going to happen, what's likely to happen in the

1028
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: next hundred years, million years, or billion.

1029
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 14: Years, m or the next hour. I mean, I don't

1030
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 14: know where this conversation is going.

1031
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: To be honest, the podcast does seem kind of unpredictable.

1032
00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem to matter too much what I write

1033
00:50:59,400 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: in the outline.

1034
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 14: Well, I think that's what happens when you put two

1035
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 14: unstable people and try to create a stable system here.

1036
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: And a lot of my favorite parts of an episode

1037
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: are those spontaneous parts, you know, the jokes that we

1038
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: come up with along the way. None of that is scripted,

1039
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 1: That just bubbles up out of a conversation that we're having.

1040
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 1: When I introduce myself, I always say I'm a particle

1041
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: physicist and a professor at UC Irvine, and then I

1042
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: add something else which is silly, and that's always just

1043
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: made up on the spot, and then we riff from

1044
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,720
Speaker 1: there for the whole episode. I got a question about

1045
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: our joke writing process from somebody on Discord who said, quote,

1046
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: although you guys may get heckled for all your jokes,

1047
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: I would like to know how much of that is

1048
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: scripted in advance and how much is on the fly,

1049
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 1: and how you come up with your joking theme to

1050
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: tie into what otherwise would seem a completely unrelated physics concept. Well,

1051
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 1: it's a good question, and it's always spontaneous. It's not scripted,

1052
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 1: and it's just something that comes out of our common

1053
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: sense of humor and having fun together.

1054
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 15: You know.

1055
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 1: An example are these jokes who make about bananas. I'm

1056
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: always joking that Jorge is a huge fan of bananas,

1057
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 1: and that's mostly just me teasing him. Back when we

1058
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: used to give those book talks, Jorge would always disappear

1059
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: for five minutes before we were supposed to go on

1060
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,240
Speaker 1: stage to have a banana and a drink and gather

1061
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 1: his thoughts. He had this routine and so I would

1062
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 1: tease him about it, and the first time I did

1063
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 1: it on their listeners responded to it. So we just

1064
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: kind of leaned into it and sort of made it

1065
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: a thing. And that's how all the humor on the

1066
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 1: show works. It just sort of like bubbles up randomly

1067
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: and naturally, and we follow it wherever it leads. But

1068
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: you know, so far, I've just been talking about my experience,

1069
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: and a crucial part of the podcast is that it's

1070
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 1: a conversation. It's not just the one person narrating. So

1071
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:39,720
Speaker 1: I sat down with my co host to hear about

1072
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: their experience on the podcast, and this was a different

1073
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:44,759
Speaker 1: kind of conversation that I usually have with each of them,

1074
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: not with their podcast physics question asking persona, but with

1075
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: the real them. All Right, Horge, thanks very much. We're

1076
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: going to answer a few questions about your experience on

1077
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,280
Speaker 1: the podcast, And this is sort of a fun conversation

1078
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 1: because now I'm talking to like the real joege and

1079
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,720
Speaker 1: like the PODCASTE.

1080
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 14: What do you mean there's only one?

1081
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 5: He?

1082
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 14: Wait? Are there too? Do you know of another who?

1083
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 15: He?

1084
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: Well, I know that the way you have a conversation

1085
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 1: on the podcast is not always the same way you

1086
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: have a conversation in real life. Sometimes you ask me

1087
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,479
Speaker 1: questions about things that I know you already understand because

1088
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 1: you're standing in for the listeners.

1089
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 14: Well, I mean, I think, uh, this, I consider this

1090
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 14: a real conversation. You know, I don't think this is

1091
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 14: a fake conversation.

1092
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 1: And we're the.

1093
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 14: Only difference is we're sort of having this conversation in

1094
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 14: front of a crowd. You know, it'd be no different

1095
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 14: than like if we were on stage in front of

1096
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 14: an auditorium or you know, having a conversation for a

1097
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 14: video or something like that, where it's like a real conversation.

1098
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 14: But you know, you have also have to keep in

1099
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 14: mind that there are people listening in.

1100
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:45,840
Speaker 1: And I also chatted with Katie Golden.

1101
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 7: Are you going to play real hardball with me? Ask

1102
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 7: some real like who are you really?

1103
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to unmask you in this interview, Katie, we're

1104
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 1: going to do a Scooby Doo moment. No, I'd love

1105
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: to ask you, first of all, to introduce yourself. Anders

1106
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: might know you as Katie who's a co host on

1107
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 1: the podcast, but you're so much more than that. Tell

1108
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: us who are you, Katie?

1109
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 7: I contain multitudes. Yeah, I mean I am very, very

1110
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 7: lucky and very happy to occasionally co host on the show.

1111
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 7: It's really fun for me given that I do not

1112
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 7: have a background in physics. I actually have a background

1113
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 7: in psychology and evolutionary biology. I have another podcast called

1114
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 7: Creature Feature where I'm the one in charge. I'm the

1115
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 7: Daniel of that show.

1116
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: And of course I talked to Kelly Wiener Smith.

1117
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 9: Thanks for inviting me, but now you got me kind

1118
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:43,760
Speaker 9: of scared. What are you going to ask me about?

1119
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 1: Of course, I wasn't trying to put them on the spot.

1120
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 1: I just wanted to know how they prepare for each episode.

1121
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: Here's what they had.

1122
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 14: To say, Daniel, Like work out. You know, I go

1123
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 14: for like a three mile run for our recording. Just

1124
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 14: imagine like a Rocky style montage where I'm like pull ups,

1125
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 14: hitting a punching bag. Drinking is a green smoothie. Then

1126
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 14: I meditate, I climb up a mountain, I clear my head,

1127
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 14: and then.

1128
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:13,760
Speaker 1: I go and record.

1129
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:15,800
Speaker 14: While Yeah, it's a whole process.

1130
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: Your dedication is very impressive. It's almost a full day.

1131
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 14: Yeah, no, you know. You send me the outlines the

1132
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 14: day before are recordings, and I sort of read them.

1133
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 14: I go through them and I sort of get a

1134
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 14: sense of what we're talking about, and here's Katie.

1135
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 7: I read it because I want to have a sense

1136
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 7: of where it's going. I don't want to start you

1137
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 7: on tangents that don't end up going back to our topic.

1138
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 7: If the topic has something to do with the life sciences,

1139
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 7: I might do a little bit of refresher just so

1140
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 7: that if the topic comes up that I'll kind of

1141
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 7: have ideas for good questions about it. Or if it's

1142
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 7: something where I read the notes and I'm so lost

1143
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 7: I cannot even conceive of what's about to happen, I

1144
00:55:58,200 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 7: might try to do some extra research.

1145
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 16: And Kelly, I would like to say that I do

1146
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 16: some prep, but I would be lying. I don't do

1147
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 16: any prep besides reading the outline that you send me

1148
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,919
Speaker 16: ahead of time. And partly that's because when we were

1149
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 16: discussing whether or not I.

1150
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 9: Would be a regular co host for this podcast.

1151
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 16: We agreed that my responsibilities would include just reading.

1152
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 9: The outline and showing up.

1153
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 16: And I was making this decision at a time when

1154
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 16: I was feeling kind of overwhelmed with various projects in

1155
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 16: my life, and so I started off by doing exactly

1156
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,240
Speaker 16: what we had agreed on, and I've kind of stuck

1157
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 16: with that. So I'll do a little bit of prep.

1158
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 16: I'll read the outline ahead of time. I'll think about

1159
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 16: whether or not I know an anecdote or you know,

1160
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 16: some funny story that might relate to the topic that

1161
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 16: I can sort of try to wedge in there. But

1162
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,400
Speaker 16: in general, I don't do much more prep than that.

1163
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,760
Speaker 16: Except for the episodes where we interview sci fi authors,

1164
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 16: I read those whole books and I think about what

1165
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 16: would be an interesting thing to talk to the author about,

1166
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 16: and so so I do do more prep for those,

1167
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 16: But for for the you know, more typical episodes, I

1168
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 16: do pretty much nothing.

1169
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: I also asked each of them about what's going through

1170
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 1: their minds during the episode, what their.

1171
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 14: Process is most I just asked you a question, and

1172
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 14: then I serve Instagram totally just kidding, No, this is

1173
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 14: that's an interesting question. I guess it is a sort

1174
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 14: of a full body thing for me. You know, I'm

1175
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 14: thinking about what you're saying. I'm thinking about what I

1176
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 14: can say, what questions I can have, what questions the

1177
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 14: audience might have, what's coming up ahead, where we are

1178
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 14: in terms of time, and whether or not, you know,

1179
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 14: maybe we need to take a hard right or hard

1180
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 14: left on whatever we're talking about, or move on. So

1181
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 14: I'm definitely sort of it's a full mental engagement, I

1182
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:57,919
Speaker 14: would say, I would, you know, I don't think about

1183
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 14: the process that much. I just as I said before,

1184
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 14: I just think of it as a real conversation we're

1185
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 14: having in front of an audience of people.

1186
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 7: In general. I just read through the notes and then

1187
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 7: really try to listen attentively, and you know, just think

1188
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 7: of questions that come to me, like what am I

1189
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 7: curious about hearing more clarification on and I assume that's

1190
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 7: hopefully what the audience is also interested in learning about.

1191
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 7: So just listening with rapt attention, which is not hard

1192
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 7: when it's such interesting material.

1193
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: Well, I think you're really excellent at that, like listening

1194
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: carefully and stopping me and asking a question with something

1195
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, And I'm always imagining that you're standing

1196
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: in for the listeners who I've also lost and confused

1197
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 1: with my complicated jargon. So I really appreciate how you

1198
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 1: do that.

1199
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 7: I speak for all the confused people. I think that's

1200
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 7: that's I'm president of the confused people.

1201
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 16: Well, so you know, in the role of every person,

1202
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 16: I'd like to tell you that what I'm thinking is, Okay,

1203
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 16: what is an all audience member likely to be thinking

1204
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 16: in response to Daniel's explanation? And what follow up question

1205
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 16: should I be asking? But honestly, physics requires like one

1206
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 16: hundred and twenty percent of my brain, and so all

1207
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,959
Speaker 16: I'm thinking is do I understand what Daniel is saying?

1208
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 16: And lucky for me, you are very clear in your explanations,

1209
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 16: so the answer is usually yes, I understand what Daniel

1210
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 16: is saying. But sometimes what I'm thinking is, Okay, this

1211
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 16: question that I have is probably profoundly stupid.

1212
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 9: How do I find a way to ask it that

1213
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 9: makes it sound a little bit intelligent?

1214
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 8: Maybe?

1215
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 16: So yeah, I guess mostly I'm just sort of listening

1216
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 16: and trying to, you know, just have a conversation with you.

1217
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 16: About physics, and it's a conversation that has rails, you know,

1218
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 16: since we've got this outline that sort of keeps us

1219
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 16: on track.

1220
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 1: And I was also curious what each of them thought.

1221
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 1: The listeners might not understand about the process since they

1222
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: only hear the finished product.

1223
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 14: Uh, that's a great question. And I guess just I

1224
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 14: wonder if people know how that it's edited, right.

1225
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 1: And of course you should all know that this podcast

1226
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: is edited, and we'll talk to the editor in a

1227
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: moment about what it takes to clean up all of

1228
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,439
Speaker 1: our ums and aws and long positive while we check

1229
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 1: our facts or think again about how to explain something.

1230
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 7: Here's Katie Well, I hiccup all the time. No, I

1231
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 7: think that. I mean, one thing I think is interesting

1232
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 7: is that they probably don't hear how thoughtful you are

1233
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 7: in terms of thinking about how to phrase something. So

1234
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 7: like you will really think about the best way to

1235
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 7: describe or phrase something, and you do a really good

1236
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 7: job of it. I think from the listener's perspective, it

1237
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 7: just sounds like you're having a casual conversation, but you're

1238
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 7: really thoughtful in terms of I guess, giving the best

1239
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 7: explanation of something, and Kelly.

1240
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 16: I hope that they are surprised to find out that

1241
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 16: the conversation is sort of outlined ahead of time, because

1242
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 16: I think we try really hard to make our conversations

1243
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 16: feel natural and for them to actually be natural, but

1244
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 16: you know, to sort of have a final destination that

1245
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 16: we're hoping to get to. But the thing that might

1246
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 16: surprise them the most is that at the bottom of

1247
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 16: the outline you always write pale blue dot and then

1248
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:28,919
Speaker 16: in like parentheses or carots, inspire humanity here. And even

1249
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 16: though you've figured out everything else in the outline, all

1250
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 16: the important facts are there, you leave that part to

1251
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 16: figure out on the fly. And to me, that's the

1252
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 16: part that I would be most likely to plan ahead

1253
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 16: of time because I am just I guess they don't

1254
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 16: think of myself as being inspirational on the.

1255
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 9: Fly particularly particularly well.

1256
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 16: But you know, at the end of every episode, I

1257
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 16: see that we're just about at the inspire humanity here

1258
01:01:57,600 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 16: part of the outline, and I always just you know,

1259
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 16: sit with baited breath waiting to see what are you

1260
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 16: going to be able to come up with on the

1261
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 16: fly to inspire the audience, and you you always do

1262
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 16: a great job, so I'm guessing that most people don't

1263
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 16: know that the inspirational parts are totally off the cuff.

1264
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: I personally love that pale blue dot moment in the outline.

1265
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 1: That was Will's original idea to end with a moment

1266
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 1: of inspiration. But it's hard sometimes to think of something

1267
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: meaningful and sincere to say like in advance, so I

1268
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: usually just let the conversation inspire me. And so that's

1269
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: the recording process. Well, it's time to take another quick break,

1270
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 1: and when we come back, we'll talk to our editor,

1271
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 1: who we've been working with for years and who has

1272
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 1: listened to countless hours of our yapping, but whose voice

1273
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 1: I had never heard before this conversation. After the break,

1274
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 1: we're back, and we talked a bit about how the

1275
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 1: raw substance of the podcast is put together. We're spontaneous

1276
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 1: and we're unscripted, and that relies on us to be

1277
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 1: clever and interesting in the moment, but it also relies

1278
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 1: on an editor to weave it together and make it

1279
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: sound good. Now, let's hear about how it gets polished

1280
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 1: into the final product that you hear. I called up

1281
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 1: our editor, Corey, who does this magic for us, and

1282
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: until this conversation. I had never spoken to him on

1283
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 1: the phone or in video or in person. I don't

1284
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 1: even know where he lives. Here's my chat with the

1285
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 1: mysterious Corey. So thanks very much Corey for having a

1286
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:38,360
Speaker 1: chat with me about how the podcast comes together. We're

1287
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: giving people a little bit of a behind the scenes view.

1288
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 1: So first, I'd love if you introduce yourself to the listeners,

1289
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,440
Speaker 1: because though you're a crucial part of the show, they

1290
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 1: have never until now heard your voice.

1291
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 11: My name is Corey Nolan. I have worked in audio

1292
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 11: for Gosh about twenty years now and got into podcast

1293
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 11: editing about three or four years ago with iHeart as

1294
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 11: a free lancer and was given Daniel and Jorge explain

1295
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 11: the universe. And that's been are we going on three years?

1296
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 1: The podcast is five years old? Yeah, So tell us

1297
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: a little bit about the process. What's it like for you?

1298
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 1: You get these files from us, and how do you

1299
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 1: weave that together into something? You know, I finished product

1300
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: for the listeners.

1301
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 11: Well, you guys get a lot of the credit because

1302
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 11: you stay so far in advance. I mean you put

1303
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 11: out two hour long shows a week. I mean that's

1304
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 11: that's a lot of content, you know, you deliver those files,

1305
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 11: you and Jorge do, or Kelly or Katie and whoever's

1306
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 11: guest hosting, and they just kind of go through a workflow,

1307
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 11: a process of just kind of cleaning it up, which

1308
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 11: you you know, doesn't usually take that much. With y'all's audio,

1309
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 11: y'all got it really nailed down, but sometimes it takes

1310
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 11: a little bit with guests.

1311
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 1: Mean neither you have to like clean it up or

1312
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 1: process it or balance it or what happens there.

1313
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:58,920
Speaker 11: Well, yes and yes, and so there's one phase of

1314
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 11: it that is sort of a take out the room

1315
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 11: noise phase. That's an initial process that's sort of again,

1316
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 11: you and Jorge are pretty consistent now and you don't

1317
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 11: have a whole lot of background noise happening, but it

1318
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:12,760
Speaker 11: helps if you're you know, you're in a room with

1319
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,440
Speaker 11: wild air conditioning or something like that. So it just

1320
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 11: kind of removes the extra stuff that you don't want

1321
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 11: to hear and be annoyed by. And then from there,

1322
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 11: you know, it goes into the software and the program,

1323
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 11: which is an Adobe program that's kind of the standard

1324
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 11: for podcasting, and and we just yeah, we line it

1325
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 11: up and then it's it's just a matter of cutting,

1326
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 11: and then you have your own like I go through

1327
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 11: and have you know, Daniel has his own like effects chain.

1328
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 1: Oh wait, what are the Daniel effect? Is there like

1329
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 1: a button there like make Daniel sound smart?

1330
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 11: You do that just fine, which is actually maybe skipping

1331
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 11: a little bit ahead. Is one of every once in

1332
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 11: a while, I'll come across people who listen to the

1333
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 11: show and they think I'm really famous and also think

1334
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 11: I'm really smart by association, and I have to explain

1335
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 11: to them that it's not that's not the case. Uh yeah, you,

1336
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 11: I mean, you know, that's just comes from the years

1337
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 11: I did. I did music for still do some music,

1338
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 11: but but just listening and trying to find what even

1339
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 11: though you are recorded well and you have good equipment,

1340
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 11: you know, there's just some shaping that needs to happen

1341
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 11: to kind of fit your voices specifically, and because y'all

1342
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 11: record the same way unless somebody gives me a heads up.

1343
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 11: Three changed his setup a few months ago, but it

1344
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 11: just kind of went going back and just kind of

1345
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 11: fine tuning it to where it's still putting out the

1346
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 11: sound that I think is good and right. You have

1347
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 11: such a good low end voice that there's stuff that

1348
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 11: like you want to kind of beef up and bring

1349
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:48,040
Speaker 11: out so without overdoing it. Yeah, it's kind of it's

1350
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 11: kind of fun to that part of it.

1351
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: So tell me about the editing process, because when we're recording,

1352
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 1: sometimes we'll stop repeat ourselves, but sometimes we'll just talk

1353
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 1: for minutes and minutes. What is your process there? You're

1354
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 1: listening to it very carefully and trying to like remove

1355
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 1: any stumbles or leuency breaks.

1356
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean, as mentioned as an our podcast, and

1357
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 11: so there's a lot of content and it's different for

1358
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:10,280
Speaker 11: you and Jorge. I think the way as I've done

1359
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 11: this and kind of learned better how to show personas

1360
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 11: through edits, yours are very succinct. Jorges, I think it

1361
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 11: kind of matches the way he talks to kind of

1362
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 11: for it to not be like that. Now, there's things

1363
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 11: that have to be edited on his, probably just as

1364
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 11: much as they are on yours. But as far as

1365
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 11: how it comes across, we're not trying to make y'all

1366
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 11: sound exactly the same because it's just not how your

1367
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 11: speech comes across and how your personalities come across. But yeah,

1368
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 11: you can't do anything else when you're editing a podcast.

1369
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 11: Because you have to be paying attention to every little

1370
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 11: thing and even though I might miss one or two

1371
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:49,919
Speaker 11: and listening to something, in the end, there's a lot

1372
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 11: of little breaks and things like that that really have

1373
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 11: to be lined up. So it takes your full attention

1374
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 11: to do it. And even at that, you know there's

1375
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 11: still there still kind of needs to be an oversight

1376
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 11: kind of process, like we have to make sure that

1377
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 11: nothing else was messed.

1378
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 1: Something I've always wondered is how much you're listening to

1379
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 1: the content, like the physics of it, and how much

1380
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: you're just listening to the words and the fluency in

1381
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 1: the language, Like are you digesting the physics also or

1382
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 1: is your whole brain required just to like make sure

1383
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 1: that everything is sounding smooth.

1384
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 2: Well.

1385
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 11: There is also another question of how much am I

1386
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:30,040
Speaker 11: am I capable of understanding the content? And I will say,

1387
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:31,960
Speaker 11: and I've said this to you all over email, like

1388
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 11: I think y'all do a fantastic job of making this

1389
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:39,320
Speaker 11: available and accessible to average people. I do think that

1390
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 11: your audience in general are not generally average, and so me,

1391
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 11: if I am me being an average person, I there

1392
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 11: are certain concepts that I just don't I don't follow along,

1393
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 11: so I may I may make it as far as

1394
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:56,960
Speaker 11: the content wise, and following may make it to you know,

1395
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 11: twenty minutes in, and then it's then it's give it

1396
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 11: a my head. But there are some others, like you know,

1397
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 11: like listener question episodes. I really love those because that's

1398
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 11: a little more you know, children ask those questions a

1399
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:10,680
Speaker 11: lot of time, so I can I can kind of

1400
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 11: play in that ballpark. And you guys come up in

1401
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:15,680
Speaker 11: my conversations like if I'm hanging out with friends or

1402
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 11: sitting around campfire or whatever. They just have made me think.

1403
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 11: And you know, the answers that you guys kind of

1404
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 11: come to you are really thought provoking and really big

1405
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 11: picture stuff. So you know, it just depends episode two,

1406
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 11: episode depends on what you are going into. But I

1407
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 11: will be honest and say that it's off and over

1408
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 11: my head.

1409
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 1: So does that mean that you're able to edit it

1410
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: and make it sound good and smooth even if you're

1411
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:41,680
Speaker 1: not understanding? That seems like sort of a superpower.

1412
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:45,520
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, let me have that. Let me have that superpower.

1413
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 1: So how long does it take for you to process

1414
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 1: one episode?

1415
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:53,439
Speaker 11: If you are not counting the pre process, like I'll

1416
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 11: take a day, and you'll know those days because I'm saying, hey,

1417
01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:59,719
Speaker 11: I email you, I need this file or need this file,

1418
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 11: and try to get ten to twelve episodes just kind

1419
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:04,559
Speaker 11: of knocked out. And that's where I'll go through and

1420
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:08,480
Speaker 11: do that remove noise process and just make sure everything

1421
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 11: is in the correct folders, and at that point when

1422
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 11: I actually then go in, because it might be another

1423
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,639
Speaker 11: few days before I bust into an episode. I usually

1424
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 11: say that if an episode ends up being forty minutes,

1425
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:23,920
Speaker 11: it's about four hours. So it's about an hour for

1426
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:29,480
Speaker 11: every ten minutes of final content. And you know, by comparison,

1427
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:32,240
Speaker 11: you know, forty minute for you y'all may have recorded,

1428
01:10:32,280 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 11: it may have taken you fifty five minutes or something

1429
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 11: like that. So there's there's usually you know, ten or

1430
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 11: fifteen minutes something something around that range that's being removed.

1431
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:46,599
Speaker 11: Maybe not quite that much that might be, but still

1432
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:49,559
Speaker 11: it takes Even if those are just small second or

1433
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,560
Speaker 11: few second increments, they just you know, they happen a

1434
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 11: good bit along the way, so it just takes a

1435
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 11: little bit of time.

1436
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:56,680
Speaker 1: So I have a question for you from some of

1437
01:10:56,760 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 1: our listeners. I pulled some folks on discord to ask

1438
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:00,720
Speaker 1: them what they wanted to know. But the making of

1439
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 1: the podcast, you know, there's been some listener feedback about

1440
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 1: my chuckles that I'm always laughing at Joeyes jokes. Yeah,

1441
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 1: And so the question for you was how many Daniel

1442
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 1: chuckles do you have to edit out or do you

1443
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: have to sometimes go in and add more chuckles to

1444
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 1: meet the required chuckle quota.

1445
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 11: Yeah, you know, actually I like that part of it

1446
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 11: because I like crafting y'all's conversation because sometimes when you're editing,

1447
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:29,560
Speaker 11: it doesn't always I mean, the laughs are real and

1448
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 11: they're happening, but they they may be a little bit delayed,

1449
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 11: or it maybe like you're you may talk over each

1450
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:38,240
Speaker 11: other for a second, and that's just not how we

1451
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 11: don't leave that stuff in on these episodes. We clean

1452
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 11: that up. And so like it's kind of fun to

1453
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:47,040
Speaker 11: like move your laugh right, like as the peak of

1454
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:50,120
Speaker 11: the joke is falling off and kind of like Daniel's

1455
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:53,240
Speaker 11: laugh has moved over. It's just a timing thing. Again,

1456
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:55,679
Speaker 11: it doesn't change like what actually happened. But I actually

1457
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:57,680
Speaker 11: kind of enjoy that, And there are I would say

1458
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 11: there's probably more times that I'm removing Daniel's and having

1459
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:01,559
Speaker 11: to add them in.

1460
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 1: No, no, oh, I can't help. But it's just so

1461
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 1: much fun to chat with all of our hosts about science.

1462
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:11,360
Speaker 1: All right, Well, last question for you is what do

1463
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 1: you think listeners might not understand about the process from

1464
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 1: just hearing the finished product that goes into it.

1465
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 11: I mean, this isn't so much on my end, but honestly,

1466
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 11: I'm not just trying because you're you know, technically my boss.

1467
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:28,000
Speaker 11: I am just really impressed by the in addition to

1468
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 11: the other jobs, that you have the ability to handle

1469
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 11: this much content and to keep coming up with content. I,

1470
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 11: for example, did a podcast with a buddy of mine

1471
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 11: with music and some other cultural things, and we did

1472
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:45,599
Speaker 11: ten episodes and like that was it? Like coming up

1473
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 11: a content was like I mean, we may have have

1474
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 11: kept doing it, but it couldn't have done two a week.

1475
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:51,160
Speaker 11: I couldn't have done to it in an hour.

1476
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 15: Yeah.

1477
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 11: So your ability to process that and to mind that

1478
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 11: out of the world. And I think that you probably

1479
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:58,679
Speaker 11: would give your listeners credit for that too, for sure.

1480
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 11: I just think and if you I don't want to

1481
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 11: take full credit and that I would say maybe generally

1482
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 11: there is a whole lot that goes on that makes

1483
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:09,840
Speaker 11: these happen before it ever gets to me. You know,

1484
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:12,560
Speaker 11: what I do is a task, you know, at the

1485
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:15,439
Speaker 11: end of the day. But as far as how this

1486
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:18,720
Speaker 11: show thrives, and I think it is thriving, I think

1487
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 11: it does well, and I think that really comes from

1488
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 11: just a whole lot of work on the back end

1489
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 11: before I ever even see a file. And then, you know,

1490
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:30,479
Speaker 11: I do think maybe if I were to bring myself

1491
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:32,479
Speaker 11: into that, you know, there are some times you just

1492
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 11: have to be on your toes and you have to

1493
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 11: be able to adjust to what is happening in the world.

1494
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 11: And I think maybe on my side that if I

1495
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 11: were to give myself a little more credit on that,

1496
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:47,360
Speaker 11: it would be you just have to be willing to adapt.

1497
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 11: And my life is on the road. I spend a

1498
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 11: lot of my time on the road, and so a

1499
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:54,760
Speaker 11: lot of that is either happening in a hotel room

1500
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:57,839
Speaker 11: late at night or maybe even you know, and stops

1501
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 11: along at the airport. And we try to do that,

1502
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:01,920
Speaker 11: we try to plan out, but there are a lot

1503
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:04,479
Speaker 11: of things that do need to happen because they're just

1504
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:07,600
Speaker 11: important to the show. And so I think that a

1505
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 11: lot of the reason why the show is so good

1506
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 11: is because you just have a lot of people that

1507
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 11: care about the content and care about it operating a

1508
01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:17,719
Speaker 11: high quality. And that's not just talking about me. That's

1509
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:22,799
Speaker 11: to Tyler and to the whole crew that's around this program.

1510
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 1: Well, I think you should take a lot of credit

1511
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:26,479
Speaker 1: because we love the editing that you do, the way

1512
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 1: you stitch together our raw stuff into something that sounds

1513
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 1: so smooth and good and make us all let me

1514
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:34,479
Speaker 1: know we're talking about you edit out all of our

1515
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:38,080
Speaker 1: Wikipedia breaks. Thanks for that.

1516
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 11: Am I supposed to edit out the reference to the

1517
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 11: Wikipedia breaks?

1518
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:45,479
Speaker 1: Now we're keeping that in. We're keeping that in. Okay, good,

1519
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,559
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for the candid conversation. Really appreciate it absolutely.

1520
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 1: Corey talks about his editing process there, but I thought

1521
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 1: it'd be useful for you to hear an example of

1522
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:56,000
Speaker 1: him doing his magic. Here's a raw clip of me

1523
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 1: and Jorge talking.

1524
01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:59,320
Speaker 14: To be the difference between ten to the forty nine

1525
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:02,080
Speaker 14: truckloads or ten to the forty eight truckloads, which is

1526
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 14: still a lot of truckloads, which is a truckload of truckloads.

1527
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 1: It's still a lot of shrugloads. Yeah, exactly, And we

1528
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 1: try to be and we try to be careful about

1529
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 1: these uncertain and we try to be careful about what

1530
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:15,680
Speaker 1: we don't know, but there's always room for surprises.

1531
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 6: Here.

1532
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: It is after he cleans it up to.

1533
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:20,680
Speaker 14: Be the difference between ten to the forty nine truckloads

1534
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:23,200
Speaker 14: or ten to the forty eight truckloads, which is still

1535
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:25,479
Speaker 14: a lot of truckloads, which is a truckload of truckloads.

1536
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:28,240
Speaker 1: It's still a lot of shrugloads. Yeah, exactly, And we

1537
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 1: try to be careful about what we don't know, but

1538
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 1: there's always room for surprises, right, And so in that

1539
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:35,600
Speaker 1: clip you hear me starting and stopping again, trying to

1540
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 1: think about the best way to phrase something. And you

1541
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:40,240
Speaker 1: speak differently if you know you're going to be edited,

1542
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:42,280
Speaker 1: because if something doesn't come out right, you back up

1543
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 1: and you try it again, because you want the best

1544
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 1: possible way to say something. If you're speaking live, of course,

1545
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:50,120
Speaker 1: that would be a very awkward way to speak. And

1546
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 1: so when I'm speaking in public, I don't rely on

1547
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,120
Speaker 1: an editor, of course, I just speak naturally. So the

1548
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 1: last step in the process is the review and the

1549
01:15:57,520 --> 01:16:00,360
Speaker 1: fact checking. We don't have a huge team have its

1550
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:03,520
Speaker 1: science versus Corey just sends me a draft of the episode.

1551
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:06,200
Speaker 1: If it's a topic I'm not one hundred percent confident in,

1552
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:08,920
Speaker 1: I will send it to some colleagues who are experts

1553
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:10,880
Speaker 1: and ask them to review it to let me know

1554
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:13,360
Speaker 1: if I've goofed up. Because while I want the podcast

1555
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:16,880
Speaker 1: to be very accessible, it's also super important to me

1556
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:20,440
Speaker 1: that it's accurate and that nothing I say is misleading

1557
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 1: to you. Occasionally I'll have to re record something and

1558
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:26,120
Speaker 1: Corey will patch it up. Very rarely an episode requires

1559
01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:29,320
Speaker 1: major surgery because an expert tells me that I've misunderstood

1560
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:32,120
Speaker 1: something or explained it in a misleading way. That happened,

1561
01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:35,280
Speaker 1: for example, with the quantum computing episode. Usually, though the

1562
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:37,759
Speaker 1: episode is all good as it is and ready to post,

1563
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:40,840
Speaker 1: probably eighty eighty five percent of the episodes don't need

1564
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:44,320
Speaker 1: any further work or trimming. But we record episodes pretty

1565
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 1: far in advance. We try to keep about two months

1566
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 1: of buffer between recording episodes and posting them. That's like

1567
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 1: sixteen to twenty episodes, And you know, that gives Corey

1568
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:54,960
Speaker 1: flexibility to edit when he's available, and it gives us

1569
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 1: a chance to take breaks when we need to, which

1570
01:16:57,439 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 1: means that by the time you hear an episode, I

1571
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 1: actually haven't thought about it in quite a while. But

1572
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:03,800
Speaker 1: then it's out there and it's up to all of

1573
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:06,360
Speaker 1: you to listen to it and to react. And we

1574
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:08,960
Speaker 1: get lots of fun comments from listeners all over the

1575
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 1: world about the show. Here a few comments sent in

1576
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:12,160
Speaker 1: by listeners.

1577
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:15,760
Speaker 13: Hey, Daniel and Jorge, thanks the opportunity to let me

1578
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:19,519
Speaker 13: come in about the show. This is Bob Pokers in

1579
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 13: my seventies, live in Silver Spring, Maryland. Been a listener

1580
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 13: for a couple of years now. I generally listen to

1581
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:29,280
Speaker 13: science podcasts, and this is my go to podcast for

1582
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 13: some of the more esoteric stuff about science. A real

1583
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 13: plus about the show is that I email Daniel, not

1584
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:38,439
Speaker 13: regularly but pretty occasional. I guess in the last couple

1585
01:17:38,439 --> 01:17:40,679
Speaker 13: of years I've probably written about ten or twelve times,

1586
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:43,080
Speaker 13: and it's nice that he gets back to me and

1587
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 13: answers every question I've got, and often will lead me

1588
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 13: to a previous episode that covers a topic I've got

1589
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 13: a question about, or to an article that also covers it.

1590
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:58,040
Speaker 13: In Layman's terms, I love the show. A long time listener,

1591
01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:00,800
Speaker 13: I planning keep on listening for as long you've got

1592
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:02,480
Speaker 13: the podcasts.

1593
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:06,599
Speaker 17: Get a I'm Callum from Tasmania, Australia in the Land

1594
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:09,919
Speaker 17: down Under. I discovered the podcast a few years ago

1595
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:13,760
Speaker 17: after googling the words physics and podcast, and I've been

1596
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:17,400
Speaker 17: quantumly entangled ever since. I have a deep itch for

1597
01:18:17,479 --> 01:18:20,320
Speaker 17: knowledge about the universe that only Daniel.

1598
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 1: And Jorgey can scratch.

1599
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:25,439
Speaker 17: Daniel delivers his profound knowledge and insights into physics in

1600
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:28,679
Speaker 17: such a captivating and passionate way that makes you refresh

1601
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:32,760
Speaker 17: the podcast daily in anticipation of a new episode when

1602
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 17: I can't sleep at two am because I'm pondering the

1603
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:38,439
Speaker 17: effects of time dilation or how a Fineman diagram can

1604
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:42,240
Speaker 17: help illustrate a virtual photon interaction. I know Daniel and

1605
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:45,799
Speaker 17: Jorgey are just an electromagnetic interaction away.

1606
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:50,960
Speaker 12: While we certainly can't explain the entire universe, yet, Daniel

1607
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:53,840
Speaker 12: and Jrhey do a wonderful job painting that picture for

1608
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:56,439
Speaker 12: all of us. Hey, I'm Joe, one of the many

1609
01:18:56,520 --> 01:19:00,400
Speaker 12: beastless speculators heard at the beginning of episodes. So why

1610
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:03,280
Speaker 12: is this podcast at the top of my listening preferences?

1611
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 12: Simply put Daniel, Jorge and their engaging guests take topics

1612
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:12,679
Speaker 12: from the seemingly mundane to mind bogglingly complex and bring

1613
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:14,680
Speaker 12: them down to earth for all of us in a

1614
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 12: fun and accessible manner. I've learned more from this series

1615
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:22,320
Speaker 12: than all my formal classes, but more importantly, it fosters

1616
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:26,280
Speaker 12: an ongoing curiosity for literally every aspect of our universe.

1617
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 12: In some way. We're all scientists, all physicists, each with

1618
01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:34,599
Speaker 12: unique insights and questions into this vast thing we call

1619
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:38,280
Speaker 12: the universe. Having the opportunity to contribute is a fun

1620
01:19:38,280 --> 01:19:43,000
Speaker 12: way to share knowledge or ignorance okay, mostly ignorance on

1621
01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:46,440
Speaker 12: a huge range of areas that inform our collective understanding

1622
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:49,960
Speaker 12: of what makes it all tick. Thank you to everyone involved,

1623
01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:51,400
Speaker 12: Stay tuned for more.

1624
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:55,360
Speaker 18: Hello Daniel and Jojo and the team around the podcast.

1625
01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:58,880
Speaker 18: I always enjoy your podcast that we questioned so very

1626
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 18: smoll like quirks to the biggest and hardest questions in

1627
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:05,559
Speaker 18: the universe, no questions to strange to weird. You take

1628
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:09,680
Speaker 18: them on any ways, with great and understandable explanations and

1629
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:14,600
Speaker 18: comparisons with every day Pheemina. You're in near my curiosity

1630
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:17,320
Speaker 18: about how the world works. Keep up the amazing work.

1631
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:19,440
Speaker 18: All best Nicholas and Sweden.

1632
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:23,960
Speaker 19: Hi, Hore and Daniel. This is Robin from Alberta, Canada.

1633
01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:26,280
Speaker 19: I love that you use your podcast to explain so

1634
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:30,519
Speaker 19: many interesting things to your listeners. There are endless, deep,

1635
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:34,120
Speaker 19: fascinating questions out there to be explored, and your podcast

1636
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:36,840
Speaker 19: is an accessible and approachable way for all kinds of

1637
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 19: people to learn about these topics. I like the person

1638
01:20:39,479 --> 01:20:41,599
Speaker 19: on the Street segment at the beginning of the podcast

1639
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:44,559
Speaker 19: episodes because it highlights just how many people think about

1640
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:47,920
Speaker 19: and are curious about these different science topics. I think

1641
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:50,919
Speaker 19: it also encourages people to be free and feel comfortable

1642
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:53,760
Speaker 19: about exploring these topics that they would like to know

1643
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:56,800
Speaker 19: more about, regardless of how much they currently know. Thank

1644
01:20:56,800 --> 01:20:59,600
Speaker 19: you for all the hard work and chocolate and bananas

1645
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:01,439
Speaker 19: the years by you and your team.

1646
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:03,760
Speaker 5: I look forward to learning.

1647
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 19: New things in upcoming episodes.

1648
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:08,040
Speaker 1: And some of the comments I get over email bring

1649
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:10,519
Speaker 1: tears to my eyes, you know, like the listener who,

1650
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:13,880
Speaker 1: at sixty years old, was inspired to go back to

1651
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:17,400
Speaker 1: school and get a degree in astrophysics, or the listener

1652
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 1: who had a stroke and relied on the podcast to

1653
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:23,480
Speaker 1: keep his mind nimble while he worked through months of recovery,

1654
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:26,200
Speaker 1: or the listener who had trouble talking to his teenagers

1655
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:28,920
Speaker 1: until he discovered the podcast as something they could do

1656
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:32,639
Speaker 1: together and talk about. And lots of moments of laughter,

1657
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:35,080
Speaker 1: like the listener who said that he loved the podcast

1658
01:21:35,120 --> 01:21:37,080
Speaker 1: but he listens while he makes dinner and often ends

1659
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:40,519
Speaker 1: up burning it when the topic gets really juicy. His

1660
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:43,040
Speaker 1: family keeps asking him to turn it off, but he refuses,

1661
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:45,080
Speaker 1: Or the eight year old listener who asked if it

1662
01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:47,800
Speaker 1: was possible to blow up Mars made me wonder if

1663
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:50,240
Speaker 1: I needed to write back to his parents maybe before

1664
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:52,720
Speaker 1: answering that question. And of course there are people who

1665
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 1: listen to the episode while falling asleep because my voice

1666
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:58,280
Speaker 1: makes them feel cozy and tired. That's cool, you know,

1667
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:00,840
Speaker 1: whatever works for you. And then there was the moment

1668
01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:03,640
Speaker 1: when I complained about chemistry and helping my son with

1669
01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 1: this chemistry homework and how I wasn't really a fan

1670
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:08,160
Speaker 1: of chemistry at all, and I got a bunch of

1671
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:11,479
Speaker 1: email from chemists and chemistry professors and chemistry teachers who

1672
01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 1: are offended that I was negative about science, and you

1673
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:16,439
Speaker 1: know what, they were right. There's so many different areas

1674
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 1: of science, and all of them are fun in different ways,

1675
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:21,559
Speaker 1: and they suit different people. And we should only be

1676
01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:24,599
Speaker 1: positive about everybody's joy for science, because we're all different

1677
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:27,320
Speaker 1: people and we all have different joys. And I said

1678
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:31,240
Speaker 1: something on the podcast. I apologized for my careless slander

1679
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:34,040
Speaker 1: of chemistry, and then I was pleased to hear back

1680
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:36,000
Speaker 1: from some of those people. Here's a quote from one

1681
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:38,639
Speaker 1: of them. She wrote, I'm a chemistry teacher. I wrote

1682
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:41,360
Speaker 1: to you earlier to complain about your attitude towards chemistry,

1683
01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:43,120
Speaker 1: and I want you to know that I appreciate your

1684
01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:46,080
Speaker 1: apology and your efforts to do better. See we can

1685
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:49,439
Speaker 1: all learn. But every day I also get emails from listeners,

1686
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:52,360
Speaker 1: sometimes just a few, sometimes dozens, and like I say

1687
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:55,720
Speaker 1: in the podcast, I answer all of them. It is

1688
01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:58,360
Speaker 1: important to me to be accessible and that the curious

1689
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:01,679
Speaker 1: public out there has ways to ask academics good faith

1690
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 1: questions motivated by curiosity. And often people are amazed that

1691
01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:08,439
Speaker 1: I actually do respond, that they're really hearing from me,

1692
01:23:08,840 --> 01:23:10,720
Speaker 1: and I'm really happy about that. It's nice to think

1693
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:13,439
Speaker 1: that I've had some impact out there, helped some people

1694
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:16,400
Speaker 1: understand science and given some people an opportunity to ask

1695
01:23:16,479 --> 01:23:18,960
Speaker 1: their question and to get a specific answer to the

1696
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:21,719
Speaker 1: thing that they were wondering about. And sometimes I wonder

1697
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 1: about the scope and the breadth of our listenership, wondering

1698
01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 1: if there are people out there in academia or even

1699
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:28,559
Speaker 1: in physics who are listening to the podcast. So I

1700
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:31,519
Speaker 1: did something very unscientific, and I asked two random people

1701
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:34,719
Speaker 1: in my research group and Chase if they were aware

1702
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:37,439
Speaker 1: of the podcast and if they listen to it. Do

1703
01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 1: you guys listen to podcasts? Yes? You do? What are

1704
01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:43,559
Speaker 1: your podcasts not?

1705
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:45,800
Speaker 14: Since I moved away from Orange County because I don't

1706
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:47,439
Speaker 14: spend half my day in the car anymore.

1707
01:23:48,240 --> 01:23:51,000
Speaker 1: Okay? Cool. So then my random question for you is

1708
01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 1: are you aware that I do a podcast? I am aware?

1709
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:56,439
Speaker 1: You are aware? Okay? Do you ever listen to it? No?

1710
01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:59,760
Speaker 1: You never do. Okay, I am aware, and I still

1711
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:00,400
Speaker 1: don't listen to it.

1712
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:00,760
Speaker 8: I'm sorry.

1713
01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:04,479
Speaker 1: Great, cool, awesome, thanks very much. So that was kind

1714
01:24:04,479 --> 01:24:07,680
Speaker 1: of humbling. Then I was wondering how the podcast has

1715
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:11,040
Speaker 1: impacted other people in my life, like my family, if

1716
01:24:11,080 --> 01:24:13,559
Speaker 1: they felt like it made me too busy, or if

1717
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 1: they didn't like that I sometimes talked about them on

1718
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:18,679
Speaker 1: the podcast. Here's a conversation I had with my wife

1719
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:21,759
Speaker 1: and my daughter on that topic. Usually, when I interview you,

1720
01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 1: your anonymous because I'm just asking you a question for

1721
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:26,280
Speaker 1: like a person on the street. But why don't you

1722
01:24:26,280 --> 01:24:27,519
Speaker 1: introduce yourself to the ginas.

1723
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:30,280
Speaker 8: I'm Hazel, he's my dad.

1724
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:35,800
Speaker 15: I'm Katrina Whitson, and I live in Irvine, California with

1725
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:36,880
Speaker 15: my husband, Dana Whitson.

1726
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:43,639
Speaker 1: All right, so the dog does not speak here.

1727
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 15: Our dog Pupizza is here too, for the record, Yeah,

1728
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:47,880
Speaker 15: thank you.

1729
01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:51,240
Speaker 1: So my number one question for you guys is like,

1730
01:24:51,720 --> 01:24:54,200
Speaker 1: what is it like for you that I have this podcast?

1731
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:57,400
Speaker 1: Is it like whatever doesn't matter? Is it cool? Is

1732
01:24:57,400 --> 01:24:59,679
Speaker 1: it embarrassing? What's your experience?

1733
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:02,320
Speaker 20: I mean, it's not like it affects my day day life.

1734
01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:05,519
Speaker 20: I think it's kind of cool. There's like people out there.

1735
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:08,639
Speaker 20: I also think that it's cool that other people agree

1736
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:09,040
Speaker 20: that you have.

1737
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:11,600
Speaker 8: A soothing voice. It's not just me. He used to

1738
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:12,519
Speaker 8: call me crazy for that.

1739
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:14,479
Speaker 1: I used to call you crazy.

1740
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:16,080
Speaker 5: What you like?

1741
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 8: I do not have a soothing voice, And now I

1742
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:19,360
Speaker 8: have people to back me up.

1743
01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:20,080
Speaker 1: I see.

1744
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:23,439
Speaker 8: So he's giving me a disapproving look. You can't see it,

1745
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:23,920
Speaker 8: but he is.

1746
01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 1: It's true you used to fall asleep to my podcast,

1747
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:32,120
Speaker 1: well before I knew that other people did it.

1748
01:25:32,120 --> 01:25:35,120
Speaker 8: It's true then the least debating way possible.

1749
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:37,840
Speaker 1: How at you dream?

1750
01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:40,599
Speaker 15: I mean, I'm really proud of you for this. It's

1751
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 15: I think it's amazing you have this following. I brag

1752
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:49,280
Speaker 15: about you regularly. I feel like it's really cool you've

1753
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:51,799
Speaker 15: built this thing up. And I love hearing the stories

1754
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:55,320
Speaker 15: about people who like reinvigorate their interest in science. It

1755
01:25:55,560 --> 01:26:00,200
Speaker 15: gives me hope for education and having people have the

1756
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 15: chance to like remake their lives using knowledge.

1757
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:04,320
Speaker 1: I think it's really cool.

1758
01:26:04,360 --> 01:26:07,600
Speaker 15: It's just like it's a force for good out in

1759
01:26:07,600 --> 01:26:09,759
Speaker 15: the world, and I'm just so glad that the world

1760
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:12,320
Speaker 15: has you in your soothing voice.

1761
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:15,880
Speaker 1: So sometimes I interview you guys with the person on

1762
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:18,080
Speaker 1: the street, like need somebody and I don't have time

1763
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:21,880
Speaker 1: to collect stuff online. You guys like being part of

1764
01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:24,000
Speaker 1: the podcast. Is that embarrassing or is it fun? What

1765
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:24,800
Speaker 1: does that feel for you?

1766
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:27,880
Speaker 20: I don't usually know the answers, so I hear my voice.

1767
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:31,519
Speaker 20: I'm like the one they got it completely wrong. But

1768
01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:33,240
Speaker 20: I think it's cool. There was one time you talked

1769
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:35,760
Speaker 20: about it. You talked about the lollipop I found in

1770
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:38,280
Speaker 20: the closet you got when you got your degree, and

1771
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:43,200
Speaker 20: I actually like it, And you said, no, you mind.

1772
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:45,200
Speaker 1: If I include the little personal tidbits in the podcast.

1773
01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:48,000
Speaker 8: No, I think that's cute, haven't you It.

1774
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:50,560
Speaker 1: Hasn't made your life porfolion or is it embarrassing?

1775
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:53,280
Speaker 15: I think it's really fun. I love getting to hear

1776
01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:56,120
Speaker 15: about who you've been interviewing, because like it's often you know,

1777
01:26:56,200 --> 01:26:59,040
Speaker 15: like you know, you interviewed my post doc or my student,

1778
01:26:59,160 --> 01:27:02,000
Speaker 15: and then I hear their voice on the podcast. And

1779
01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:04,680
Speaker 15: sometimes you do ask me questions, like right when I'm

1780
01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:06,559
Speaker 15: in the middle of something else, it's like the morning

1781
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:07,439
Speaker 15: rush and you're.

1782
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:09,639
Speaker 9: Like, so, what's dark matter?

1783
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:11,800
Speaker 1: What are quirks?

1784
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 20: He made me late to school a bit and then

1785
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:15,759
Speaker 20: he texted me why are you late to school?

1786
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:20,000
Speaker 8: And I had to answer it was it was a

1787
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:22,120
Speaker 8: very sweet moment with though all of the.

1788
01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:26,559
Speaker 1: Service of public science communication. All right, anything else?

1789
01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:29,360
Speaker 15: Do we get to share some favorite moments?

1790
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:30,679
Speaker 1: What are your favorite moments?

1791
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:31,160
Speaker 12: Well?

1792
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:34,320
Speaker 15: I just well I love hearing stories from listeners. And

1793
01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:37,519
Speaker 15: during the pandemic, instead of doing a man on the

1794
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:39,599
Speaker 15: street interviews, like when you were out in the world,

1795
01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:42,360
Speaker 15: you were getting them as recordings and sometimes I got

1796
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:45,559
Speaker 15: to hear them and I remember like just really fun

1797
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:48,840
Speaker 15: moments people had shared with you, like these Australian housemates

1798
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:51,760
Speaker 15: who were like all giggling and answering your questions, and

1799
01:27:51,800 --> 01:27:53,679
Speaker 15: I feel like there was music involved somehow.

1800
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:54,960
Speaker 1: Did you feel like you wanted to be part of

1801
01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:55,320
Speaker 1: that house?

1802
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:56,599
Speaker 11: Yes, I did.

1803
01:27:57,400 --> 01:28:00,200
Speaker 8: And when we went to New Zealand last year, one

1804
01:28:00,200 --> 01:28:01,280
Speaker 8: of your listeners was.

1805
01:28:01,320 --> 01:28:03,840
Speaker 15: So kind and gave us a ton of advice that

1806
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:06,720
Speaker 15: we totally followed and that was amazing. And if I

1807
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:08,720
Speaker 15: remembered their name, I would say it right now. But

1808
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:11,599
Speaker 15: that was so kind and I don't know. It just

1809
01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:13,680
Speaker 15: brings out the good in people. It's like made the

1810
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:14,519
Speaker 15: world a better place.

1811
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:17,040
Speaker 1: And I'd like to end this special episode with what

1812
01:28:17,160 --> 01:28:20,599
Speaker 1: the podcast has meant to me. It means the world

1813
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:23,000
Speaker 1: to me to know that I can share that joy,

1814
01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:25,559
Speaker 1: that there are people out there who are hearing it

1815
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:28,400
Speaker 1: and feeling it. I love having an excuse to learn

1816
01:28:28,479 --> 01:28:31,280
Speaker 1: about areas of physics I never otherwise had time to

1817
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:34,599
Speaker 1: dig into. I love having to think super carefully about

1818
01:28:34,640 --> 01:28:37,160
Speaker 1: my own understanding to make sure it really clicks in

1819
01:28:37,280 --> 01:28:40,280
Speaker 1: my head well enough to explain it. And I love

1820
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:44,440
Speaker 1: having joking science conversations with Hooge and Mkatie and Mkelly,

1821
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:47,080
Speaker 1: and I really hope that the podcast has helped you

1822
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:50,720
Speaker 1: share in the joy of science. Thank you all so

1823
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:52,080
Speaker 1: much for listening.

1824
01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:56,799
Speaker 14: Hey ho hey from the podcast, and I'm super excited

1825
01:28:56,840 --> 01:29:00,240
Speaker 14: to announce my new book, Oliver's Great Big Universe, is

1826
01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:02,880
Speaker 14: available to order now.

1827
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:12,479
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

1828
01:29:12,520 --> 01:29:16,520
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

1829
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:21,200
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1830
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:22,960
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.