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Speaker 1: Body diaries, but Joseph's gotten more. I've heard said, particularly

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Speaker 1: over the last few years, that it's never a good

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Speaker 1: idea to drink your calories. It's an interesting thought. First off,

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Speaker 1: you don't get the enjoyment of actually ingesting your food,

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Speaker 1: I think, and there's there's kind of this this idea

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Speaker 1: of ingestion and then digestion with your food. You know,

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Speaker 1: the process that your body goes through to drink one's

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Speaker 1: calories is really kind of a shortcut, not there's something

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Speaker 1: metabolic about it that I don't know, inhibit your ability

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Speaker 1: to maintain a healthy weight. I see a lot of

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Speaker 1: my students drinking these coffee drinks, and you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: seeing figures that are in the thousands and thousands of calories.

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Speaker 1: And listen, I'm not a cold, cough kind of guy,

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Speaker 1: never have been. I drink coffee for a couple of purposes.

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Speaker 1: First to start my day, Secondly to wake up so

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Speaker 1: that I don't kill people, and.

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Speaker 2: Third because I enjoy the warmth of it. But I

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Speaker 2: have been known in the past to imbibe in the

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Speaker 2: occasional smoothie and they've got all varieties that are out there,

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Speaker 2: But you know, never have I ever had a smoothie

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Speaker 2: and thought this could put my freedom at risk. Today,

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Speaker 2: we're going to discuss a case involving a smoothie and

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Speaker 2: the straw that was found within an empty cup, a

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Speaker 2: straw that held evidence that actually closed out a cold

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Speaker 2: case that had been opened for over forty years. I'm

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Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Bodybacks. Dave. You drink

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Speaker 2: cold coffee. I've seen you. You and I have actually

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Speaker 2: had coffee together on air. You know, we'll sit there

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Speaker 2: and toast at each other every now and then. You know,

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Speaker 2: I love my coffee. I know you love yours. You

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Speaker 2: ever drink cold coffee at all?

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Speaker 3: I do not drink cold coffee.

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Speaker 4: It's you know, I drink cold tea and hot tea,

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Speaker 4: but I do not drink cold coffee.

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Speaker 2: YEAHS not my thing. Man. I've got these students that come,

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Speaker 2: you know, come into my classes and they've got these gigantic,

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Speaker 2: gigantic cups filled you know with the stuff, and they'll

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Speaker 2: be whipped cream on it and all kinds of stuff,

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Speaker 2: and it looks it looks grand. Uh. But you know

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Speaker 2: I look at that and I think grand. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: would it costs about a grand I like milkshakes too,

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Speaker 2: but I know that if I drink one every day,

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Speaker 2: you know, it would not be good for me. Have

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Speaker 2: you ever had smoothies at all? Have you ever tried smoothies?

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Speaker 3: You're going down a path that I really feel bad.

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Speaker 4: Look, man, just so you know, I don't eat vegetables

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Speaker 4: and I eat ice cream, so I think that anything

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Speaker 4: that is a smoothie, yeah, I'll go with my ice cream,

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Speaker 4: or I'll drink a shake. I'll drink ice I'll do that,

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Speaker 4: but I really don't do the expensive drink thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And it's yeah, it really is like every time and

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Speaker 4: I mean this, okay, little insight here. Yeah, I see

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Speaker 4: a drink that costs five or six dollars, smoothie of

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Speaker 4: frozen drink, whatever it is. And my first thought is

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Speaker 4: I could buy a canister of Maxwell House or Boulgers,

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Speaker 4: you know, And I just can't do that. I cannot

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Speaker 4: break myself into it. And to be honest with you,

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Speaker 4: I don't particularly care for them. When somebody buys me something,

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Speaker 4: I try to be kind and oh thank you, but

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Speaker 4: it's like I save your money, you know. Really, Why

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Speaker 4: there's a hose pipe, I'll get some water out of

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Speaker 4: that I'm good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, kid, now I'll feel the same way. I

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Speaker 2: just couldn't and listen. And this is a shameless plug here.

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Speaker 2: My family actually owns a coffee company.

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Speaker 3: Oh amazing.

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Speaker 2: I know a beat a roasting company down and friends.

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Speaker 2: You can order it online, by the way, a beat

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Speaker 2: a roasting company. And so when I when I've got

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Speaker 2: the inside when I got the inside line on coffee,

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Speaker 2: you know, that's who I'm going to go to them,

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Speaker 2: go to my fan and have them ship it to me.

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Speaker 2: I like to make it all.

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Speaker 4: I've got to put that in the body of the

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Speaker 4: stuff today so you guys will know what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 4: And handless plug away. It's his family and it's awesome.

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Speaker 4: And I was very much prepared, Joe. I was prepared

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Speaker 4: to say, oh, really good, thanks, it was awesome.

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Speaker 3: I was thinking.

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Speaker 4: I was like, I actually started not making it when

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Speaker 4: people were over.

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Speaker 3: Now they can get the soldiers.

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Speaker 2: Oh you're hoarding it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah I did.

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Speaker 2: Well, I can tell you. Yeah, we're we're literally right now,

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Speaker 2: as we're as we're chatting, we're we're closing it on

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Speaker 2: the end of October, Dave, I have it on good authority.

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Speaker 2: I used to tell my my kids. I've I've actually

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Speaker 2: got Santa's phone number. And so I've got Santa's phone number.

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Speaker 2: I see, I see a basket of a beta coming.

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Speaker 2: You're so just keep that in mind.

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Speaker 4: Pretty excited about all right, take let's grab this show

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Speaker 4: by the heels here of Joe. This is one of

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Speaker 4: these topics that comes up. It deals with DNA, and

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Speaker 4: it deals with a crime scene. It deals with evidence

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Speaker 4: and holding onto it for a long time. It also

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Speaker 4: deals with something that we have been involved with with

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Speaker 4: regard to Authram, you know, helping solve or actually provide

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Speaker 4: answers to families after years. I mean, what we've seen

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Speaker 4: Authrom do is just remarkable. It's such a change of

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Speaker 4: the way crime is dealt with today. Crimes that happened

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Speaker 4: forty fifty sixty years ago people thought they got away

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Speaker 4: with it, and they're ending up in jail during their

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Speaker 4: twilight years. We've got that scenario playing out today. A

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Speaker 4: sixteen year old girl, Teresa Fusco, she was from Lynnwood,

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Speaker 4: New Jersey. She's working at a skating ring, working at

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Speaker 4: the snackshack inside a skating ring.

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Speaker 3: Loved it.

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Speaker 4: She was a dancer, okay, working part time. She was

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Speaker 4: a nice, beautiful, sixteen year old girl. Teresa was also

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Speaker 4: a virgin, and I will tell you, for those of

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Speaker 4: us who grew up in the seventies and the early eighties,

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Speaker 4: that was not a very common occurrence. And the fact

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Speaker 4: that she was tells me a lot about who she was.

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Speaker 4: And the reason we're talking about her today is because

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Speaker 4: she lost so much in the space of one night.

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Speaker 4: She got fired from the snack shop at the skating rink.

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Speaker 4: She had an argument with an assistant manager. So imagine this.

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Speaker 4: You're working for minimum wage and you've got another minimum

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Speaker 4: wage worker who has kissed but enough to get into

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Speaker 4: an assistant manager position, and they're making your life miserable,

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Speaker 4: and you get into a disagreement and the assistant manager

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Speaker 4: fired from Think about it, an assistant manager at the

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Speaker 4: snack bar inside a skating rink. I mean that's one

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Speaker 4: step up from, you know, the lowest of the low.

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Speaker 4: I mean, think about And she got fired, fired, this

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Speaker 4: beautiful girl, And so she's crying. It's nine forty five.

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Speaker 4: She's walking home. She lives four blocks from the skating rink,

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Speaker 4: a normal path to walk.

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Speaker 3: She never made it. Now.

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Speaker 4: At first, her mom didn't get really worried because she

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Speaker 4: was going this is in the day before we had

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Speaker 4: cell phones.

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Speaker 3: Oh, matter of fact, it's really the day before kids

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Speaker 3: had beepers too.

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Speaker 4: And as a sixteen year old, you know, she had

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Speaker 4: gone done her job, she was going to stop by

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Speaker 4: a friend's house and might spend the night. So Mom

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Speaker 4: didn't even think about it till the next morning when

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Speaker 4: she woke up and realized Theresa had not been home,

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Speaker 4: and she calls her friend or is she still with you? No,

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Speaker 4: she never came over last night. Immediately they knew right

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Speaker 4: then we got problems, and they did. Teresa Fusco vanished

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Speaker 4: in the NIME four when she left as skating rink.

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Speaker 4: We don't know what happened to her that night, in

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Speaker 4: the following days and the weeks is the investigation went.

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Speaker 3: It was crazy, Yeah, it really was.

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Speaker 2: And and like you said, there there was no way

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Speaker 2: back during that, you know, analog period of life, non

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Speaker 2: digital world, where you could actually track somebody down. Do

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Speaker 2: you remember, I don't know if your mom was ever

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Speaker 2: a member of them, but do you remember phone trees

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Speaker 2: where there would be a list a list of phone numbers,

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Speaker 2: you know, where moms would call, you know that sort

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Speaker 2: of stuff. I know a lot of our friends out

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Speaker 2: there can identify with that. And but the chill that

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Speaker 2: would run up and down your spine if you're a

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Speaker 2: parent and there's you know, first off, you know, we

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Speaker 2: kind of take it for granted. Now we've got CCTV everywhere,

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Speaker 2: We've got cell phones, we've got traffic traffic light, image

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Speaker 2: imagery possible. You know, all these things that didn't exist.

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Speaker 2: People could, in fact in nineteen eighty four literally fall out,

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Speaker 2: fall out of society and never be known of again.

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Speaker 2: And the fact that through our friends at Authram at

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Speaker 2: this point in time, that there has been a resolution

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Speaker 2: in this case all these years later is nothing short

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Speaker 2: of a miracle, I think, because what are the odds

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Speaker 2: And what's fascinating is that with this child's father, who

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Speaker 2: by the way, is still alive, Mister Fusco is still alive,

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Speaker 2: and he said, I never I never gave up. I

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Speaker 2: never gave up. I never lost faith in the system.

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Speaker 2: And faith in the system nowadays is one of those

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Speaker 2: things that's really hard to muster. I think we see

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Speaker 2: successes with people like Authram. What people don't understand is

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Speaker 2: that Authram is a private entity. Okay, it's not the

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Speaker 2: it's not the government. Now, the government calls them in

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Speaker 2: to consult and uh, you know, do consultations on cases

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Speaker 2: and that sort of thing, but they're they're not a

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Speaker 2: government entity. And it took advances in technology, and it

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Speaker 2: took it took cold case investigators that were still still

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Speaker 2: had an investment in this moving forward, and also some

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Speaker 2: kind of interesting things along the side. I say interesting.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of a disservice, but kind of tragic things

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Speaker 2: alongside as well.

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Speaker 4: It wasn't a cold case for long. They had it

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Speaker 4: solved pretty quick, Joe. They had an arrest. Well here's

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Speaker 4: what happened though. Okay, she goes missing November tenth, that's

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Speaker 4: the night she doesn't make it home, last seen crying

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Speaker 4: as she leaves, fired by the assistant manager. Four weeks later,

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Speaker 4: December fifth, she is found under leaves, buried in brush

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Speaker 4: not far from the skating rink in a wooded area.

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Speaker 4: Now I don't know the actual geography, but that's how

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Speaker 4: it has explained. And I'm thinking somebody nabbed her right then, now, Joe,

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Speaker 4: there is and I really wanted to find out from

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Speaker 4: you what all of the evidence meant, because it sounded

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Speaker 4: to me like she was killed fairly quickly after she

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Speaker 4: left the skating rink, but some of the evidence might

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Speaker 4: indicate otherwise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that you're right. Let me throw out

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Speaker 2: one more thing here that's kind of chilling as well.

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Speaker 2: Have you and anybody in the sound of my voice,

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Speaker 2: have you ever had a feeling when you walk out

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Speaker 2: of an establishment that you were being watched, or that

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Speaker 2: you were that somebody had their eye on you. Maybe

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Speaker 2: you were in an establishment you made eye contact with

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Speaker 2: them and it wasn't like positive eye contact, like a

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Speaker 2: familiar kind of face. I really it seems to me

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Speaker 2: that in this particular case, the perpetrator was, in fact,

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Speaker 2: first off, aware that she worked there, aware that she

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Speaker 2: was probably commonly on foot. They would have to have

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Speaker 2: a familiar sense of this area, may have even been

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Speaker 2: a patron of the skating rink, may have even bought snacks,

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Speaker 2: you know, at the snack bar where she worked. She's

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Speaker 2: sixteen years old, and I don't I know you've been fired.

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Speaker 2: You've expressed this actually on air before. It's one thing

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Speaker 2: when you get fired when you're an adult, but you

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Speaker 2: talk about putting blinders on you're sixteen years old and

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Speaker 2: someone you really feel like you've been gutted at that

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Speaker 2: point in time, because it's one of your first jobs,

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Speaker 2: maybe your first job ever, and you've built it all

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Speaker 2: up in your mind. You've got this great job, or

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Speaker 2: to you, it's a great job. You're making some money,

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Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden you're embarrassingly dismissed. Yes,

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Speaker 2: she would have blinders on, Dave. As she's walking out

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Speaker 2: of this place, she's going to be so laser focused

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Speaker 2: on the fact that she's just been, you know, traumatized

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Speaker 2: by what's happened. And she's a sixteen year old girl.

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Speaker 2: I trust me, I used to have a sixteen year

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Speaker 2: old girl in my house, and I understand the emotion.

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Speaker 2: She wouldn't see a perpetrator coming her way. Dave. That

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Speaker 2: so sad, it really is. And I begin to think

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Speaker 2: about the speed at which this would have taken place.

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Speaker 2: Because you think about the location of her body, that

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Speaker 2: it is in a wooded area, that's probably it's a familiar,

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Speaker 2: familiar area to the perpetrator, maybe even to her. Maybe

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Speaker 2: there was a path at some point in time you

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Speaker 2: could have cut through, you know, a kid, there were

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Speaker 2: a lot of cut throughs in my neighborhood where you

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Speaker 2: could walk through an area. Some of them were wooded

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Speaker 2: that maybe you were only familiar with, or maybe that

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Speaker 2: somebody in the area that resided there as well would

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Speaker 2: be familiar with. There's no light, it's dark, it's nighttime,

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Speaker 2: and you get overtaken in an area. This She's just

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Speaker 2: to lay it out plainly for you, Dave. She was

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Speaker 2: assaulted in a way that, as you had mentioned, would

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Speaker 2: have taken some time. She was beaten, she was also strangled,

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Speaker 2: and then she was raped. And the rape in this

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Speaker 2: particular case is very significant in a sense that the

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Speaker 2: perpetrator actually left left their calling card relative to her,

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Speaker 2: because it's the exam that came up later in the

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Speaker 2: wake of the discovery her body in the evidence that

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Speaker 2: they found the trauma that she had endured. It was

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Speaker 2: those bits of evidence that they collected at that autopsy

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Speaker 2: way back in nineteen eighty four that would eventually lead

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Speaker 2: to the arrest of a suspect, but not before some

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Speaker 2: other folks were damaged along the way. It's one thing

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Speaker 2: to be falsely accused of something and you protest I

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Speaker 2: did not do this, I did not do this. You're

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Speaker 2: lying about me, you're lying to other people about me,

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Speaker 2: And no matter how much you protest, it's not going

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Speaker 2: to change the attitude of the person that is necessarily

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Speaker 2: accusing you. They've made up their mind many times already

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Speaker 2: along the way, or the people that they're shouting this

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Speaker 2: to about you, that you did in fact do something

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Speaker 2: that you were falsely accused of. But how much more so, Dave,

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Speaker 2: when you're thinking about the local authorities that can put

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Speaker 2: the I don't know, for lack of a better term,

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Speaker 2: the strong arm on you. They threaten you with beating,

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Speaker 2: or they threaten you with incarceration until you finally they

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Speaker 2: deny you a phone call. They deprive you of water,

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Speaker 2: you know. And that's, by the way, that's one of

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Speaker 2: the tricks that's used many times. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you know this with extended interviews. One of the things

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Speaker 2: that happens is that the people that are conducting the

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Speaker 2: interview will actually walk in with a bottle of water.

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Speaker 2: Maybe there's two people in the room, and the interviewer

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Speaker 2: will be sipping on the water, and the interview will

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Speaker 2: go on for a protracted period of time, the people

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Speaker 2: being the person being interviewed it's not offered water. And

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Speaker 2: then finally they'll say, look, I'm getting really thirsty. Can

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Speaker 2: have a bottle of water? Yeah? Yeah, sure, we'll get

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Speaker 2: you one first. Can you answer? Can you answer that?

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Speaker 2: Let's go back over this one more time and guess what.

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Speaker 2: They'll also do the same thing, and it doesn't have

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Speaker 2: to be punches. They can also do the same thing

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Speaker 2: with bathroom breaks. I don't know about you. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, Kim and I travel extensively. We're always on

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Speaker 2: the road, and dude, at this, at this season of

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Speaker 2: my life, I got to stop more than I wish to.

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Speaker 2: But you know, you're sitting there in a chair. You've

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Speaker 2: also you've got people that are implying that you've done

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Speaker 2: something wrong. Not just wrong, you've committed a homicide that's

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Speaker 2: going to make anybody want to avoid their bladder. You're

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Speaker 2: sitting there and they're not responding to your request to

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Speaker 2: go to the bathroom. Yeah yeah, yeah, we'll get to

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Speaker 2: that in just a moment. And what this is building

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Speaker 2: up to, it's those small little things along the way

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Speaker 2: that urge this person. Listen, I've got to get relief.

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Speaker 2: I'm thirsty, I've got a pee, I've got to do this.

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Speaker 2: I'm hungry. I'll you get to the point where you'll

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Speaker 2: say just about anything just so you can get relief.

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Speaker 2: And certain people know how to press those buttons, Dave.

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Speaker 4: Just so you know, I came about getting involved with

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Speaker 4: crime coverage and things like that at an early age,

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Speaker 4: being impacted by news things happening around me. Man, some

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Speaker 4: murders come to mind. When I was a very small child.

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Speaker 4: As an adult, I actually was the prime suspect in

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Speaker 4: a crime that I didn't commit. Wow, And I've been

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Speaker 4: in that chair, knowing I'm innocent, knowing I didn't do anything,

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Speaker 4: and I sat there and now I tell everybody, you

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Speaker 4: just need one.

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Speaker 3: Word, lawyer. Yeah, don't talk, lawyer.

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Speaker 4: They lie, they cheat, they steal, they will do everything

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Speaker 4: they can because they you're look, man who doesn't want

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Speaker 4: an easier day at work? Okay, we have a crime,

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Speaker 4: We got a suspect, he looks good for it. Break him,

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Speaker 4: ither spend two hours of break you can get into

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Speaker 4: or I gotta go out and actually work. And so

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Speaker 4: I again, just lawyer, that's it. Don't talk. You're not

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Speaker 4: going to do yourself any good. Tell him the truth, Okay,

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Speaker 4: tell them the truth. And shut up. That's all I

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Speaker 4: ever tell anybody. But that's if you're innocent. If you're guilty,

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Speaker 4: I don't do what you want. But if you're innocent,

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Speaker 4: tell them the truth and stop.

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Speaker 3: That's it.

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Speaker 4: Get a lawyer because they will trip you up. And

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Speaker 4: when you find out people spend time in prison for

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Speaker 4: confessing to a crime they didn't commit. How difficult Joe

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Speaker 4: is it for a regular Joshmo me? You called to

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Speaker 4: jury duty and the prosecutor says, we have this painous

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Speaker 4: crime and we have a suspect who has admitted it.

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Speaker 3: He admitted he did it.

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Speaker 4: It was only after he found out that he might

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Speaker 4: spend the rest of his life in jail that he

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Speaker 4: has taken back his admission of guilt, his confession. But

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Speaker 4: we've got him on tape. He confessed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And you know a jury, a jury's gonna

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Speaker 2: think that's gold. I mean they are, you know, their

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Speaker 2: conclusion is, well, these people were the badges. These people authority,

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Speaker 2: the people that are in charge of the grand jury,

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Speaker 2: those people that are prosecuting the case, the people the

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Speaker 2: guy that's sitting on the bench in the funny looking dress.

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Speaker 2: They're all about justice, right, and sometimes it didn't work out,

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Speaker 2: and Dave three, not one, not two, but three guys

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Speaker 2: in this particular case rolled over on this case and

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Speaker 2: they they wound up spending double digit time in prison

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Speaker 2: for a heinous, heinous act that they didn't do.

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Speaker 4: There was a rape murder of a sixteen year old, virgin,

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Speaker 4: beautiful young girl. And as a father of daughters, I

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Speaker 4: know what that dad, I know what he went into

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Speaker 4: this thinking of his daughter and how much more he felt,

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Speaker 4: and then knowing that it was stolen. And there are

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Speaker 4: three guys who actually are wanted for our good, for

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Speaker 4: the crime, and they're brought in, they go to trial,

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Speaker 4: and you've got in nineteen eighty four when the crime

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Speaker 4: took place, in nineteen eighty six, when they got the conviction.

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Speaker 4: Our technology is not where it was ten years later.

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Speaker 4: It certainly wasn't where it was twenty years later. Oh,

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Speaker 4: they were not idiots in nineteen eighty four. In nineteen

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Speaker 4: eighty six and science was really growing in the field,

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Speaker 4: they had some strong evidence, Joe. They did have it

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Speaker 4: that the police did. Some of it was so good

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Speaker 4: that it actually worked to free the men wrongly convicted.

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Speaker 4: But again, remember they were still dealing with a sixteen

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Speaker 4: year old girl who was doing nothing more than walking

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Speaker 4: home from work after getting fired by some assistant manager

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Speaker 4: at a snackshack, and she gets raped and murdered, and

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Speaker 4: going back to this show, they couldn't find her.

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Speaker 3: Why could they not find her?

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Speaker 4: I mean, you've got a limited pathway to where her

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Speaker 4: body was and where she was headed. It wasn't like

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Speaker 4: she was taking miles away.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't.

375
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Speaker 3: Is there a reason that they had trouble finding her?

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Speaker 4: Do you think maybe she was kept somewhere and abused

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Speaker 4: for a while and then taken out and hit and

378
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Speaker 4: killed and then dropped there later on?

379
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Speaker 2: Well you know, yeah, I guess it could be possible, however,

380
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Speaker 2: to be able to marry up the changes in her

381
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Speaker 2: body with what they were visualizing at time. And of

382
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Speaker 2: course they have not released this data yet because this case,

383
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Speaker 2: as we know, is still being adjudicated, but it has

384
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Speaker 2: Here's the interesting thing. It has previously been adjudicated, but

385
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Speaker 2: none of those records are available for us to view.

386
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Speaker 2: But yeah, it would, and it is a protracted period

387
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Speaker 2: of time. Let's back up just a second and consider

388
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Speaker 2: when when this young young lady went and disappearing. Teresa disappeared.

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Speaker 2: You know, Teresa disappeared back on November tenth in nineteen

390
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Speaker 2: eighty four. She was not found until December the fifth,

391
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Speaker 2: So that's a protractive period of time. Yeah, almost a month.

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Speaker 2: And when she's found, she's found, you know, kind of hidden,

393
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Speaker 2: hidden beneath brush that's been stacked on her and they

394
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Speaker 2: described it at the time as leaves. Again, I think

395
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Speaker 2: that that goes to that goes to the speed at

396
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Speaker 2: which this perpetrator tried to cover up her body. It's

397
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Speaker 2: not like he went out with a shovel and dug

398
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Speaker 2: a hole or even dug you know, into the earth,

399
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Speaker 2: or or created a depressed area. He essentially just kind

400
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Speaker 2: of piled stuff up on top of her. Is that

401
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Speaker 2: enough to block someone's view of her? And what is

402
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Speaker 2: their assumption? They know back then, they would have known

403
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Speaker 2: that she would have been a pedestrian, She would have

404
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Speaker 2: been on foot. Why aren't she going out and looking

405
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Speaker 2: to see if she anywhere in walking distance? Maybe their

406
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 2: idea was she stepped out into the parking lot and

407
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Speaker 2: she was snatched and she's disappeared. She's just vanished off

408
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Speaker 2: the face of the planet. Was there a boyfriend that

409
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Speaker 2: maybe she was involved with Hey, let me ask you this.

410
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Speaker 2: Do you think that snack snack assistant manager was questioned?

411
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Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, kind of there's one part

412
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Speaker 2: of me that hopes he was the dad, and me

413
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Speaker 2: hopes that he was. He was brought in and questioned extensively,

414
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Speaker 2: you know, to find out, well, what can you tell

415
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Speaker 2: us exactly what did happen? We heard that she left

416
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Speaker 2: here crying. How do you explain that? You know? So

417
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Speaker 2: had they exhausted every possible lead at that point. I

418
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 2: think that, you know, it's an interesting proposition that you

419
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 2: put forward here with her, because you're thinking, well, was

420
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Speaker 2: she held captive somewhere to the point where the guy

421
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 2: may have got and tired of her being around, or

422
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: he felt like it was too risky to keep her around,

423
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Speaker 2: so he disposes her, disposes of her in the most

424
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Speaker 2: effective manner. I know that that her I'll put it

425
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 2: to you this way. I know that the evidence of

426
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 2: the trauma was still there to the point where they

427
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: could appreciate it. We're talking about evidence of strangulation, we're

428
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 2: talking about evidence of blunt force trauma. Because they're saying

429
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Speaker 2: she was beaten, they don't say if you know if

430
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Speaker 2: she had a fractured skull or anything like this. But

431
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: we know that that trauma existed. And oh, by the way,

432
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 2: they did rape kit. They did a rape kit on

433
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 2: her and retained the results from that, so they there

434
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 2: was actual seminal deposition into her body. However, I got

435
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 2: to say, these three other individuals that were named, charged, prosecuted,

436
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 2: and sentenced to prison where they spent what was it like,

437
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: eighteen years of their life in prison for this crime

438
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 2: they did.

439
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 4: They were convicted in nineteen eighty six, and it was

440
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 4: two thousand and three when they got the DNA back.

441
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 4: But still, even in the case of one of the guys,

442
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 4: you know the way that they got them to back

443
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 4: up a minute before we go full on, they were

444
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 4: in jail for all that language I cannot imagine for

445
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 4: the life of me chan cannot But they have three guys.

446
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 4: They've got mister Koga. I'm trying to remember his first name,

447
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 4: John Cogut. John Coget's a twenty one year old guy,

448
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 4: and he was charged March twenty sixth, nineteen eighty five.

449
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 4: So we're talking three and a half months after this

450
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 4: crime has taken place, nearly four months rather and He's

451
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 4: twenty one years old. He's arrested and charged with second

452
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 4: degree murder and rape. He's a former resident of the

453
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 4: area and was living in New York.

454
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 3: He is a suspect. When they interviewed four hundred.

455
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 4: People, he's just a guy that strikes their fancy as

456
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 4: somebody who, yeah, he might have done it. Police say

457
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 4: he confessed and that they say this, twenty one year

458
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 4: old John Kogat confessed and implicated two of his friends,

459
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 4: twenty six year old John Restivo and thirty one year

460
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 4: old Dennis Halstead. Now, when I was thirty one, Joe,

461
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 4: I did not have a twenty one year old friend

462
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 4: that I would have done anything with just saying.

463
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 2: No, no, so no, absolutely not.

464
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 4: So that just they hit me odd anyway, but anyway,

465
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 4: so the police say they they confessed, that all three

466
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 4: said they never did it, and they never confessed.

467
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 3: So I don't know what, you know, We don't know

468
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 3: what's going on.

469
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 4: What we do know is that they went to trial

470
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 4: and they tried mister Kogat first by himself, and then

471
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 4: they tried the other two guys together and they all

472
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 4: ended up convicted. And you know, you mentioned the interrogation

473
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 4: and what happens. You know, you're priving you have a

474
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 4: bathroom water. Police said that there were three polygraph examinations

475
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 4: and that Koga thought that though he was told that

476
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 4: he failed, the polygraphs said he was innocent. They told

477
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 4: him he failed over and over. You've had three polygraphs, John,

478
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 4: And I know you say you didn't do it, but

479
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 4: you know what, nobody can't fool a polygraph right by

480
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 4: the way, I've been in that chair. I've been in

481
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 4: that polygraph chair with detectives looking at me through a

482
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 4: one way mirror or two way mirror where they can.

483
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 3: See you but you can't see them.

484
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, And they give you brochures to look at while

485
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 4: you're waiting, and the brochures tell you how accurate, how

486
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 4: you can't fool the polygy. It's to psych you out

487
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 4: before you take the polygraph. It's such a mental nightmare

488
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 4: this guy three times and commenced him. You're going down, man,

489
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 4: You're going down for the rest of your life.

490
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: Well imagine and as brutal as this case was in

491
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: this little community and it's kind of a village out

492
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: on Long Island where they lived. And again, you know,

493
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 2: the population of Long Island is very dense. It wasn't

494
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 2: as dense back then as it is now, but still dense.

495
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 2: This has made the news, you know, and you can

496
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 2: imagine just the parents around the area. And I'm not

497
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 2: talking about Teresa's dad or mom, or her family or

498
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 2: associated family. I'm talking about all the families. You have

499
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 2: something like this that happens in a quiet area where

500
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 2: it and you know, reports of the day reported that

501
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 2: this just absolutely rocked the community. They wanted, they wanted

502
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 2: somebody that they could take. I'm sure the DA wanted

503
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 2: somebody they can take and say you're responsible for it.

504
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: So not only did they get one, they got three.

505
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: They get three people and so that, you know, that

506
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: kind of makes it. It dies down. But you know, Teresa, Teresa,

507
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 2: I submit to you, was victimized again. She's victimized by

508
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: the system. So you've got these these three men who

509
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: have been falsely accused and falsely convicted and falsely imprisoned.

510
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: You've got Teresa who suffered through this horrible trauma. Her

511
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 2: dad and her mom since that night that she disappeared

512
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: the next morning have been suffering and languishing with this

513
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 2: all the way up until nineteen eighty six. When there's

514
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 2: a conviction and these guys are sentenced, they are also

515
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: victims in this case. Can you imagine you get this

516
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 2: relief after the horror that you suffered from finding out

517
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 2: what was done to your daughter, You get this little

518
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: bit of relief, This little beam of sunshine comes in

519
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: and says, Okay, at least we know who did this.

520
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: And you're told by the police that they know who

521
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: did it. You're told by the prosecutor that you know

522
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 2: who did it. You've got a judge, you were probably there.

523
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 2: They adjudicated this person guilty. They're sent away, and you're

524
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: given this false sense of reality. And then all of

525
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: a sudden, new testing comes to light. All these years later,

526
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 2: in two thousand and three, these guys have been cooling

527
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: their heels in jail and they're cut loose. Now, I'd

528
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: be very curious to know, how can you, as a

529
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 2: department police prosecutor, go to the home, if you have

530
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 2: the intestinal fortitude and the courage to do it, go

531
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: to mister Fusco's home, knock on his door, have him

532
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 2: come to the door, stare him in the face and

533
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 2: say we got it wrong, we got it wrong. Your

534
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 2: daughter's killer might still be out there, if they are

535
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: still alive. But all this time, in the name of

536
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: justice for your daughter, we've kept three men deprived of

537
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 2: their families, deprived of ever having a family, perhaps, deprived

538
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 2: of their freedom to come and go. We've deprived them

539
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 2: of their freedom all this time, and you are deprived

540
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: of justice. Teresa with her death, you know, she furnished,

541
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: furnished information by what was left within her body. When

542
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 2: they did this rape exam on her, this rape kid Dave,

543
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: they were able to discover that there was a seminal

544
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 2: sample left behind ejaculate from within her. And one of

545
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 2: the things that we do in the morgue is and

546
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 2: I've described this before, but we do swabs at autopsy.

547
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 2: We do smears on little glass slides, and we also

548
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: retain the swabs as well. We allow those to air dry,

549
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: and they're sent into the crime lab where they're tested.

550
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: I think the big question here, because in eighty four

551
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: you would not have been doing DNA testing, only swabs.

552
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 2: I think the only thing that you could have really

553
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 2: been looking for some of the things forensically you had

554
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 2: been looking for, is to see if the sperm or

555
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 2: if there was any motility to the sperm. You know,

556
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: were they moving or was the guy shooting blanks. Secondly,

557
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,719
Speaker 2: you'd want to know if the guy was a secretor

558
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 2: a secretor is something that we would do in the

559
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 2: past where I think it's the number I can't remember there.

560
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: It seems like it's like forty percent of the population

561
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: or secretors and what that means. And various body fluids,

562
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 2: including like saliva and semen. You're gonna find red blood cells,

563
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: and in those red blood cells you can do blood typing. Okay,

564
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 2: but even with blood typing you can only narrow it

565
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 2: down so far. You know the rarest blood types like

566
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 2: ab NAG, and I think that's like one in I

567
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 2: don't know, one hundred and forty nine people have ABNAG.

568
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 2: It's not like, you know, you're looking at DNA and

569
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 2: you're talking about numbers that are millions, billions and trillions

570
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 2: or quintillions, or you know, there's fanciful numbers that they

571
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 2: throw out there like that. So I really wonder what

572
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 2: they did as far as testing goes with that rate

573
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 2: kit all those years ago. I do know this, they

574
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 2: retained it, and boy, I'll tell you what these years

575
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 2: later they hit the jackpot, didn't they d tell me.

576
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 3: What they found, Joe?

577
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 4: What did they find when they they pulled this out

578
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 4: and they start looking at this case again because again

579
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 4: remember now we got the two thousand and three four

580
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,760
Speaker 4: five period when the three guys get out of jail

581
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 4: on the DNA evidence. Yeah, but that just means that

582
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 4: we've now got an unsolved crime that is now twenty

583
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 4: one years old because it's two thousand and five when

584
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 4: COVID finally gets cut loose. The murder happened in November

585
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty four. And so here we are, we're back

586
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,959
Speaker 4: at square one. The only thing we know for sure

587
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 4: is the three guys that were in jail for the

588
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 4: last eighteen years for this murder didn't do it. So

589
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 4: where do you go from there? You pull the rape

590
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 4: kit out and start looking, Well.

591
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 2: You can start looking. I think the first place that

592
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: you would have gone to, and you've heard this before,

593
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: is you'd go to the code of database because this

594
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: is a violent rate. You know, many people opened that

595
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: an individual that will commit this level of violence, this

596
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: kind of sexual assault like this, they get a taste

597
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 2: for Dave and that that can't stop with just one

598
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: and The idea is, as it turns out, the perpetrator

599
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 2: had no priory. There was apparently no previous relationship between

600
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: between her and the perpetrator, the guy that turns out

601
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 2: to be the perpetrator. So you're thinking, well, if he

602
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: will randomize a sixteen year old, who else has he

603
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 2: randomly attacked over the same period of time and is

604
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: there evidence that he could been in the code of database?

605
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: Did they press forward with that at that limited amountain time?

606
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: Because this predates what has now become the utility of

607
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 2: you know, investigative genetic genealogy, and so not only do

608
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 2: you have that sample that's left behind, but once technology

609
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,919
Speaker 2: gets caught up with this, you know, the FBI now

610
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 2: has their own IgG team that works for the FBI.

611
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: But yet they still as well, they should have to

612
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 2: consult with our friends at Authoram and buddy. That's what

613
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 2: they did. They went to the Metalmans there in the Woodlands,

614
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: Texas and said, look, we've got a case here. We've

615
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 2: already you know, the locals have already wrongfully convicted three

616
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: fellows that have been languishing in prison. They've already paid

617
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: through the nose for two of them. But yet they're

618
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 2: still an unanswered question about who's ultimately responsible for Teresa's death?

619
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 2: Can you help us? And of course, you know, don't

620
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 2: ever present AUTHORM with a challenge because they'll pick you

621
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 2: up on it. If there's money to be thrown at it. Yeah, yeah,

622
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 2: and you're going to have to defeat those numbers. And

623
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 2: so you know, they hop right on this, and they

624
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: use open source DNA. They don't go into twenty three

625
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 2: and meteris and all that. There are certain databases that

626
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 2: are open and Buddy, when they did, they got to hit,

627
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 2: They got to hit. They built out, they built out

628
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 2: a family tree on the suspect that had left behind

629
00:37:53,840 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: had left behind DNA. And what's fascinating is that the

630
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 2: cops actually did the right thing here. They had a

631
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 2: name and they went and sat on him, didn't they? Dave?

632
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 4: And I think the part about this that I love

633
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 4: and I whenever we mentioned AUTHORM, I think you're really

634
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 4: good to point out that they're not funded. They have

635
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 4: to raise money every time they do a case, and

636
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 4: they got to get seventy five hundred bucks and then

637
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 4: some just to start working on it and their backlog.

638
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 4: But the work they do is capable of producing this

639
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 4: where they can narrow it down and say, okay, just

640
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 4: like they did with Coburger. You know, that case came

641
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 4: down to we know it that the person who left

642
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 4: this here is related to this fella, is the son

643
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 4: of this person. I mean, they narrow it down that far,

644
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 4: and then they get a name and they start watching him.

645
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 4: They're watching Richard Bildeou and they're waiting to see when

646
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 4: we can get what we need.

647
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 3: And they finally get it. You started off the show talking.

648
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 4: About cold cough and smoothies, the old coffee and smoothies,

649
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 4: and I knew that we were going to end with

650
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 4: cold coffee and smoothies.

651
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 3: But you know, justice.

652
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 4: Delayed is not always justice denied, but it sure isn't

653
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 4: the same. No, And when you're talking about something for

654
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 4: this family to go on for forty one years, three

655
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 4: men to lose half their lives, I mean, it's just

656
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 4: this is a tragedy on so many levels. But forty

657
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 4: one years later, Joe that's straw from a smoothie led

658
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 4: police to sixty three year old Richard Bildeau.

659
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he has just been hooked up on charges.

660
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 2: I mean this is very recent now. His trial has

661
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 2: not taken place, yet he is not convicted. But interestingly enough,

662
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 2: the prosecutor who stated that they had no involvement in

663
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 2: the original case, and of course they make the argument

664
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 2: that technology has now caught up with with this case

665
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 2: to the point where they're saying that it is a

666
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: one hundred and this is the prosecutor saying it. Not

667
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan and not brother Dave Mack. This is

668
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 2: the prosecutor saying that this is a one hundred percent match.

669
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 2: So they're going to take him to court. And what

670
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 2: they're going to take him to court with is they

671
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 2: are going to They're going to take in a wheelbarer

672
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 2: full of data numbers that will require geneticists to sit

673
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 2: on the stand and look those jury members in the

674
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 2: eye and be able to say, you know that, within

675
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 2: a reasonable scientific certainty, this is the perpetrator. I guess

676
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 2: in closing with all of this, I would I would

677
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: probably say, will the prosecutor, even though they weren't part

678
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 2: of the original trial the office was, will the prosecutor

679
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 2: have the intestinal fortitude to look at that jury and say,

680
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 2: first time out, we got this wrong. We admit that

681
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 2: we got this wrong. This time we have it right,

682
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 2: I hope that they're willing to do that. I'm Joseph

683
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 2: Scott Morgan and this is bodybags