WEBVTT - Thread of Continuity.  Mike Lyons talks to Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>The Armstrong and Getty Show. You know, I think our

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<v Speaker 1>young men and women that we send to war are

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<v Speaker 1>best in our brightest They deserve better, They deserve an

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<v Speaker 1>open airing of what is the mission. I've been saying

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<v Speaker 1>for several years now that I can't meet a general

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<v Speaker 1>anywhere who can tell me, really what is the mission

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<v Speaker 1>we're trying to accomplish an Afghanistan Will Rand Paul. It

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<v Speaker 1>turns out, according to the Washington Post reporting that came

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<v Speaker 1>out yesterday and is ongoing this week, the reason you

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't find a general that could tell you what was

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<v Speaker 1>going on is they didn't have any idea what was

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<v Speaker 1>going on. And we're saying that to each other behind

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<v Speaker 1>the scenes, and haven't for a very very long time.

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<v Speaker 1>The Washington Post with a blockbuster, multi part piece of

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<v Speaker 1>journalism about the war in Afghanistan and the way the

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<v Speaker 1>American people have been misled and the overspending in the

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<v Speaker 1>waste and the it's just it goes on and on

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<v Speaker 1>out this week. It's absolutely fascinating. We encourage you to

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<v Speaker 1>read it, but to discuss the topic in general, we've

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<v Speaker 1>invited uh Mike Lyons, military analysts for CBS News, also

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<v Speaker 1>a man who commanded UM combat troops in Operation Desert

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<v Speaker 1>Shield and Desert Storm, etcetera, and knows what he's talking about. Mike,

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<v Speaker 1>how are you, sir, like the one of guys. Great

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<v Speaker 1>to be back talking about this difficult topic here. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>let's and we've talked about it through the years with you.

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<v Speaker 1>But can you help us understand why the military and

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<v Speaker 1>the civilian government so often just hits Things are going well,

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<v Speaker 1>we're making progress, things are going great, We're about to

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<v Speaker 1>turn the corner. Why that drumbeat even when everybody knows

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<v Speaker 1>it's not true. I think it's this level of cognitive dissidence.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not accepting what's what's actually happening. I think the

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<v Speaker 1>report in and above itself doesn't really distinguish between lying,

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<v Speaker 1>which the people in the ground say that they're not doing,

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<v Speaker 1>versus sailing. There was a lot of sailing and going on,

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<v Speaker 1>but it looks like it's being portrayed as they were

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<v Speaker 1>lied to. So you take that, you know, kind of

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<v Speaker 1>the bureaucracy is going to bureaucracy mentality. Um, you lay

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<v Speaker 1>over sixteen named commanders in the time frame since the

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<v Speaker 1>whole thing started. Um, you basically don't have an eighteen

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<v Speaker 1>year war. You have UM sixteen one year wars that

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<v Speaker 1>that are led by eighteen different individuals, and so so

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<v Speaker 1>you bring all these things together. UM. I think the

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<v Speaker 1>article and I spent some time yesterday trying to find

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<v Speaker 1>the other side of the story and talking to people

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<v Speaker 1>that were involved in UM are now doing some self

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<v Speaker 1>analysis of what was going on, and they're just concerned

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<v Speaker 1>that this painted of a broad brush because what they

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<v Speaker 1>tried to do was this, they tried to take an

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<v Speaker 1>Afghana poor country and make it rich. But the bottom

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<v Speaker 1>line is Afghanta violent country, and to take a violent

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<v Speaker 1>country and make it peaceful is a wholly different mission

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<v Speaker 1>and something that you know, maybe we shouldna be trying

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<v Speaker 1>to do. Maybe maybe I should back back up a second.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you know this story was coming and the Washington Post?

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<v Speaker 1>And then when you first saw it, what was your action? No?

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<v Speaker 1>I thought I knew that this was coming from this

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<v Speaker 1>particular author, and I think that there was concerned that

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<v Speaker 1>he was going to tell the story the way he did,

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<v Speaker 1>that it was more of a scandalous, more of a

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<v Speaker 1>you know, more of kind of a sensationalist thing, and

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<v Speaker 1>when in fact, you've got to dig a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>deeper into the story. For example, UM, you've got to

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<v Speaker 1>look at Afghanistan pre two thousand and six and post

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<v Speaker 1>a thousand and six. You've gotta look at it post

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<v Speaker 1>pre and post serge. You've got to look at different administrations,

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<v Speaker 1>three presidents now obviously involved with this. UM. So when

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<v Speaker 1>you do have to break it down into pieces, UM again,

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<v Speaker 1>that thread of continuity, I would say, it's not lying,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's sailing. And you know, each different technique that

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<v Speaker 1>was tried in order to gain different results failed and there.

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<v Speaker 1>But Mike, if Mike, if they're if they're failing, but

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<v Speaker 1>telling us they've succeeded and we're making great progress, that's

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<v Speaker 1>I call that lying. Well, yeah, I'm not sure you

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<v Speaker 1>saw that. You know, we've not had any parade of

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<v Speaker 1>celebrations about great progress there. It's it's been more or less.

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<v Speaker 1>Things are going okay, we've just got to keep it going.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, look what happened when the president, this president

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<v Speaker 1>decided he wanted to take all the troops out of there.

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<v Speaker 1>He was told no. And a lot of it just

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<v Speaker 1>us have to do with the bureaucracy that's underneath him,

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<v Speaker 1>the industrial military complex that UM is really similar. It's

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's a stone deep state. It's its own

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<v Speaker 1>thing that hasn't enough in nurse you to it. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of the blame falls back on

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<v Speaker 1>all called big army um our. Our army just signs

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<v Speaker 1>up for these missions at times, and the people running

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<v Speaker 1>the military um and and thinks that they can get

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<v Speaker 1>these things done. And again that cognitive dissidence, their inability

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<v Speaker 1>to recognize what they can and can't do. Guess in

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<v Speaker 1>trouble is it is there something to do with the

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<v Speaker 1>personality of uh of you military people? And this is

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<v Speaker 1>a good part of you. People that are successful in

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<v Speaker 1>the military, you can do. People you're optimists. You look

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<v Speaker 1>for the you know, the good news in a story

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<v Speaker 1>and figure out a way to fix it. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>those are the kind of people that are successful. But

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<v Speaker 1>those are also kind of the people that are the

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<v Speaker 1>it's likely to say, this ain't never gonna work right.

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<v Speaker 1>Your greatest strength is your greatest weakness, and that's the

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<v Speaker 1>best example of it. UM. I'm involved personally. I know

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<v Speaker 1>that people. I know the commander on the ground in

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<v Speaker 1>Afghanistan right now is named Scotty Miller. Is my west

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<v Speaker 1>Point cross mate, and he tells me that they're doing

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<v Speaker 1>good things there, and he says, it's like it's this

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<v Speaker 1>place is like an ocean and there's just lots of

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<v Speaker 1>sharks here and you just got to avoid the sharks. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we live in a country that they don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't have sharks. We're not worried about things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>And he's trying to paint it in a way that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, just just right over that hill. It's the

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<v Speaker 1>same mentality soldiers have had. I'll go back to the

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<v Speaker 1>Civil War, the go back to the mentality of the

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<v Speaker 1>military to think, just over that hill, if we just

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<v Speaker 1>get this one more thing accomplished, will be good in them,

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<v Speaker 1>things in momentumal role, and things will go on our way. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's one of those cultural things in our military. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that that's cool, and I get that, and that explains

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<v Speaker 1>the military end of it. But the reason we have

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<v Speaker 1>a civilian leadership in the United States and the way

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<v Speaker 1>we've done that, the way we've done it, is so

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<v Speaker 1>that that won't come to you know, I guess, how

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<v Speaker 1>do we not have our civilian leadership, whether it's a

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<v Speaker 1>president or Congress, were they getting the right information or

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<v Speaker 1>were they being misled or what's going on there. So politically,

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<v Speaker 1>UM George Bush invades Afghanistan first, gets distracted into Iraq,

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<v Speaker 1>recognizes he's not going to get out of Afghanistan. Barack

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<v Speaker 1>Obama ran under the platform that Iraq was always the

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<v Speaker 1>bad war. We're gonna focus on Afghanistan. So he comes

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<v Speaker 1>and doubles down on Afghanistan politically, without really thinking through it.

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<v Speaker 1>He brings in petray Us, who at the time has

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<v Speaker 1>this new way of warfare mccarro insurgency, which is something

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<v Speaker 1>that the big Army doesn't want to do anyway. Petrayus

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<v Speaker 1>is not necessarily uh you know, in leading the big

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<v Speaker 1>Army to do this because they've got to do something different.

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<v Speaker 1>Um Barack Obama decides to saying thirty thousand more troops

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and nine, but they're gonna come out in

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen months. John McCain says, you can't keep it to

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<v Speaker 1>a timeline. You know this, that, this, that, and the

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<v Speaker 1>other thing. Finally enough enough, Donald Trump says We're all

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<v Speaker 1>coming out. And now everyone says, no, we can't do

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<v Speaker 1>that because the whole thing will be destroyed. So who

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<v Speaker 1>wants to don't talk. At least it's going to have

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<v Speaker 1>the guts to leave Afghanistan. And when the movie is

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<v Speaker 1>finally over in two years, when the Taliban take back

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<v Speaker 1>over the country, and you know, the scene of the

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<v Speaker 1>helicopter leaving the embassy roofs is going to be replayed

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<v Speaker 1>again that we saw in At least Donald Trump doesn't care.

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<v Speaker 1>He's gonna have the guts to pull everybody out. And

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think Americans are gonna care, not much, you know, Mike.

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<v Speaker 1>That that brings us, I think to the great permanent,

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<v Speaker 1>overarching questions which should overarch every conflict we send American

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<v Speaker 1>boys and girls into, and that is, do we have

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<v Speaker 1>a specific achievable goal and do we have a sound

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<v Speaker 1>strategy for achieving that? To me, having read you know,

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<v Speaker 1>most of the multi part uh it's practically a book. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>it seems pretty clear to me that the answers are

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<v Speaker 1>are mostly no to those questions. I mean, at some

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<v Speaker 1>point they they had an idea of what the specific

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<v Speaker 1>goal was and a pretty good idea of whether it

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<v Speaker 1>was achievable. But I mean that's just gotten swept away

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<v Speaker 1>like the very sands of that hell a whole country, right,

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<v Speaker 1>What happened was in big army perspective. The counterinsurgency guys,

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of the you know, the grass eaters, the

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<v Speaker 1>bug eaters, the special lots guys ran this knowing that

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<v Speaker 1>they could get this thing done, and kind of the

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<v Speaker 1>big army guys, the tankers, the infantry, those kind of

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<v Speaker 1>regularly guys took a back seat. I could tell you this.

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<v Speaker 1>The armist pivoted back now towards the focus on a

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<v Speaker 1>big conflict we're looking at, possibly a conflict with the Chinese,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, in the South China. See we could do

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<v Speaker 1>something with Russia in Europe. We're kind of gearing back

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<v Speaker 1>towards that and moving away from this um. But again

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<v Speaker 1>to your point, I think that you know, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we owed ourselves a better oversight and recognize that we

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<v Speaker 1>were repeating history without trying to do the same thing over.

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<v Speaker 1>I could talk to you about this all day, the

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<v Speaker 1>war in Afghanistan, but we got one minute left. I

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<v Speaker 1>want a minute on training Saudi nationals that at least

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<v Speaker 1>some of them seem to be joh hottests. Oh my gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>send every one of them home. I'm furious about this.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't even think for a second that the President

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<v Speaker 1>gets on and says, don't worry, the Kingdom of Side

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<v Speaker 1>of Arabia is going to take care of those families.

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<v Speaker 1>You explained to that ends and enable academy graduate. You

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<v Speaker 1>explained to that mother on how her son died in

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<v Speaker 1>a classroom training to be a pilot from a Saudi national.

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<v Speaker 1>Every single one of those Saudis need to be removed

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<v Speaker 1>from that school, sent back home and we'll we'll set

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<v Speaker 1>the training up over there. But there's just no excuse here.

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<v Speaker 1>This President's got to make a decision. You want to

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<v Speaker 1>support the troops, it starts right now by not putting

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<v Speaker 1>us in the room there. And if we've come to

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<v Speaker 1>find out that they've infiltrated and their sleeper cells in

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<v Speaker 1>these places, um, shame on the NBI and shame on

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<v Speaker 1>all of us. For us, we're gonna sound I'm enraging

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<v Speaker 1>to this one, and he needed to do something about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Well said Mike. Well said my clients military animals for

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<v Speaker 1>CBS News always enlightening. We thank you very much for

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<v Speaker 1>the time. Mike. Thanks guys, thanks for having