1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: The Armstrong and Getty Show. You know, I think our 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: young men and women that we send to war are 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: best in our brightest They deserve better, They deserve an 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: open airing of what is the mission. I've been saying 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: for several years now that I can't meet a general 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: anywhere who can tell me, really what is the mission 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: we're trying to accomplish an Afghanistan Will Rand Paul. It 8 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: turns out, according to the Washington Post reporting that came 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: out yesterday and is ongoing this week, the reason you 10 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: couldn't find a general that could tell you what was 11 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: going on is they didn't have any idea what was 12 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: going on. And we're saying that to each other behind 13 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: the scenes, and haven't for a very very long time. 14 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: The Washington Post with a blockbuster, multi part piece of 15 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: journalism about the war in Afghanistan and the way the 16 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: American people have been misled and the overspending in the 17 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: waste and the it's just it goes on and on 18 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: out this week. It's absolutely fascinating. We encourage you to 19 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: read it, but to discuss the topic in general, we've 20 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: invited uh Mike Lyons, military analysts for CBS News, also 21 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: a man who commanded UM combat troops in Operation Desert 22 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: Shield and Desert Storm, etcetera, and knows what he's talking about. Mike, 23 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: how are you, sir, like the one of guys. Great 24 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: to be back talking about this difficult topic here. Yeah, 25 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: let's and we've talked about it through the years with you. 26 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: But can you help us understand why the military and 27 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: the civilian government so often just hits Things are going well, 28 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: we're making progress, things are going great, We're about to 29 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: turn the corner. Why that drumbeat even when everybody knows 30 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: it's not true. I think it's this level of cognitive dissidence. 31 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: It's not accepting what's what's actually happening. I think the 32 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: report in and above itself doesn't really distinguish between lying, 33 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: which the people in the ground say that they're not doing, 34 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: versus sailing. There was a lot of sailing and going on, 35 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: but it looks like it's being portrayed as they were 36 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: lied to. So you take that, you know, kind of 37 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 1: the bureaucracy is going to bureaucracy mentality. Um, you lay 38 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: over sixteen named commanders in the time frame since the 39 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: whole thing started. Um, you basically don't have an eighteen 40 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: year war. You have UM sixteen one year wars that 41 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: that are led by eighteen different individuals, and so so 42 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: you bring all these things together. UM. I think the 43 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: article and I spent some time yesterday trying to find 44 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: the other side of the story and talking to people 45 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: that were involved in UM are now doing some self 46 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: analysis of what was going on, and they're just concerned 47 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: that this painted of a broad brush because what they 48 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: tried to do was this, they tried to take an 49 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: Afghana poor country and make it rich. But the bottom 50 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: line is Afghanta violent country, and to take a violent 51 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: country and make it peaceful is a wholly different mission 52 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,119 Speaker 1: and something that you know, maybe we shouldna be trying 53 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: to do. Maybe maybe I should back back up a second. 54 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: Did you know this story was coming and the Washington Post? 55 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: And then when you first saw it, what was your action? No? 56 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: I thought I knew that this was coming from this 57 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: particular author, and I think that there was concerned that 58 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: he was going to tell the story the way he did, 59 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: that it was more of a scandalous, more of a 60 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: you know, more of kind of a sensationalist thing, and 61 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: when in fact, you've got to dig a little bit 62 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: deeper into the story. For example, UM, you've got to 63 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 1: look at Afghanistan pre two thousand and six and post 64 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: a thousand and six. You've gotta look at it post 65 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: pre and post serge. You've got to look at different administrations, 66 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: three presidents now obviously involved with this. UM. So when 67 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: you do have to break it down into pieces, UM again, 68 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: that thread of continuity, I would say, it's not lying, 69 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: but it's sailing. And you know, each different technique that 70 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: was tried in order to gain different results failed and there. 71 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: But Mike, if Mike, if they're if they're failing, but 72 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: telling us they've succeeded and we're making great progress, that's 73 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: I call that lying. Well, yeah, I'm not sure you 74 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: saw that. You know, we've not had any parade of 75 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: celebrations about great progress there. It's it's been more or less. 76 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: Things are going okay, we've just got to keep it going. 77 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: I mean, look what happened when the president, this president 78 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: decided he wanted to take all the troops out of there. 79 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: He was told no. And a lot of it just 80 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: us have to do with the bureaucracy that's underneath him, 81 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: the industrial military complex that UM is really similar. It's 82 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's a stone deep state. It's its own 83 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: thing that hasn't enough in nurse you to it. Um. 84 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: I think a lot of the blame falls back on 85 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: all called big army um our. Our army just signs 86 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: up for these missions at times, and the people running 87 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: the military um and and thinks that they can get 88 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: these things done. And again that cognitive dissidence, their inability 89 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 1: to recognize what they can and can't do. Guess in 90 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: trouble is it is there something to do with the 91 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: personality of uh of you military people? And this is 92 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: a good part of you. People that are successful in 93 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: the military, you can do. People you're optimists. You look 94 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: for the you know, the good news in a story 95 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: and figure out a way to fix it. I mean, 96 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: those are the kind of people that are successful. But 97 00:04:58,320 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: those are also kind of the people that are the 98 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: it's likely to say, this ain't never gonna work right. 99 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: Your greatest strength is your greatest weakness, and that's the 100 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: best example of it. UM. I'm involved personally. I know 101 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: that people. I know the commander on the ground in 102 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: Afghanistan right now is named Scotty Miller. Is my west 103 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: Point cross mate, and he tells me that they're doing 104 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: good things there, and he says, it's like it's this 105 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: place is like an ocean and there's just lots of 106 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: sharks here and you just got to avoid the sharks. Now, 107 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: you know, we live in a country that they don't know. 108 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: We don't have sharks. We're not worried about things like that. 109 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: And he's trying to paint it in a way that 110 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: you know, just just right over that hill. It's the 111 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: same mentality soldiers have had. I'll go back to the 112 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: Civil War, the go back to the mentality of the 113 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: military to think, just over that hill, if we just 114 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: get this one more thing accomplished, will be good in them, 115 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: things in momentumal role, and things will go on our way. Okay, 116 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: that's that's one of those cultural things in our military. Yeah, 117 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: that that's cool, and I get that, and that explains 118 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: the military end of it. But the reason we have 119 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: a civilian leadership in the United States and the way 120 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: we've done that, the way we've done it, is so 121 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: that that won't come to you know, I guess, how 122 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: do we not have our civilian leadership, whether it's a 123 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: president or Congress, were they getting the right information or 124 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 1: were they being misled or what's going on there. So politically, 125 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: UM George Bush invades Afghanistan first, gets distracted into Iraq, 126 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: recognizes he's not going to get out of Afghanistan. Barack 127 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: Obama ran under the platform that Iraq was always the 128 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: bad war. We're gonna focus on Afghanistan. So he comes 129 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: and doubles down on Afghanistan politically, without really thinking through it. 130 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: He brings in petray Us, who at the time has 131 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: this new way of warfare mccarro insurgency, which is something 132 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: that the big Army doesn't want to do anyway. Petrayus 133 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 1: is not necessarily uh you know, in leading the big 134 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,679 Speaker 1: Army to do this because they've got to do something different. 135 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: Um Barack Obama decides to saying thirty thousand more troops 136 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, but they're gonna come out in 137 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: eighteen months. John McCain says, you can't keep it to 138 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: a timeline. You know this, that, this, that, and the 139 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: other thing. Finally enough enough, Donald Trump says We're all 140 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: coming out. And now everyone says, no, we can't do 141 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: that because the whole thing will be destroyed. So who 142 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: wants to don't talk. At least it's going to have 143 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: the guts to leave Afghanistan. And when the movie is 144 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: finally over in two years, when the Taliban take back 145 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: over the country, and you know, the scene of the 146 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: helicopter leaving the embassy roofs is going to be replayed 147 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: again that we saw in At least Donald Trump doesn't care. 148 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: He's gonna have the guts to pull everybody out. And 149 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: I don't think Americans are gonna care, not much, you know, Mike. 150 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: That that brings us, I think to the great permanent, 151 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: overarching questions which should overarch every conflict we send American 152 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: boys and girls into, and that is, do we have 153 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: a specific achievable goal and do we have a sound 154 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: strategy for achieving that? To me, having read you know, 155 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: most of the multi part uh it's practically a book. Um, 156 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: it seems pretty clear to me that the answers are 157 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: are mostly no to those questions. I mean, at some 158 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: point they they had an idea of what the specific 159 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: goal was and a pretty good idea of whether it 160 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: was achievable. But I mean that's just gotten swept away 161 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: like the very sands of that hell a whole country, right, 162 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: What happened was in big army perspective. The counterinsurgency guys, 163 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: the kind of the you know, the grass eaters, the 164 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: bug eaters, the special lots guys ran this knowing that 165 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: they could get this thing done, and kind of the 166 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: big army guys, the tankers, the infantry, those kind of 167 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: regularly guys took a back seat. I could tell you this. 168 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: The armist pivoted back now towards the focus on a 169 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: big conflict we're looking at, possibly a conflict with the Chinese, 170 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: for example, in the South China. See we could do 171 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: something with Russia in Europe. We're kind of gearing back 172 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: towards that and moving away from this um. But again 173 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: to your point, I think that you know, you know, 174 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: we owed ourselves a better oversight and recognize that we 175 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 1: were repeating history without trying to do the same thing over. 176 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: I could talk to you about this all day, the 177 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: war in Afghanistan, but we got one minute left. I 178 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: want a minute on training Saudi nationals that at least 179 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: some of them seem to be joh hottests. Oh my gosh, 180 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: send every one of them home. I'm furious about this. 181 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: I can't even think for a second that the President 182 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: gets on and says, don't worry, the Kingdom of Side 183 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: of Arabia is going to take care of those families. 184 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: You explained to that ends and enable academy graduate. You 185 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: explained to that mother on how her son died in 186 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: a classroom training to be a pilot from a Saudi national. 187 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: Every single one of those Saudis need to be removed 188 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: from that school, sent back home and we'll we'll set 189 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: the training up over there. But there's just no excuse here. 190 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: This President's got to make a decision. You want to 191 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: support the troops, it starts right now by not putting 192 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: us in the room there. And if we've come to 193 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: find out that they've infiltrated and their sleeper cells in 194 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: these places, um, shame on the NBI and shame on 195 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: all of us. For us, we're gonna sound I'm enraging 196 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: to this one, and he needed to do something about it. 197 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: Well said Mike. Well said my clients military animals for 198 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: CBS News always enlightening. We thank you very much for 199 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: the time. Mike. Thanks guys, thanks for having