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Speaker 1: I'm Chuck Todd, I'm Jade, and welcome to our new show, Dynastic.

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Speaker 2: What do you want to say about it?

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Speaker 1: Well, the title dynastic, you know, it's not limited, right,

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna be looking at the great dynasties in sports,

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Speaker 1: the great franchises in sports, the great teams in.

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Speaker 2: How they became dynasties, how they got there because most

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Speaker 2: of them, you're not You don't start a dynasty, right,

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Speaker 2: you know, and unless you really are born. I can't

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Speaker 2: think of one franchise that started a dynasty unless you're

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Speaker 2: actually born in New York City.

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Speaker 1: Maybe, So, yeah, how they became, what made them a dynasty,

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Speaker 1: what the enduring effects are afterwards, the legacy, which is

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Speaker 1: the most overworld used, most overused word in sports. But

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Speaker 1: it's also something that I think comes into play here.

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Speaker 2: Well, look at every franchise has a story that's just

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Speaker 2: like a human being, and in some ways that's that's

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Speaker 2: kind of what we want to do here.

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Speaker 1: So almost break it down to figure.

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Speaker 2: It's the biography, it's the it's the then the arc

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Speaker 2: of the life of this team. And because we know

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Speaker 2: for fans this is in some ways they themselves feel

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Speaker 2: it as almost like a person. The relationship is almost

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Speaker 2: the way you have a relationship with something you love.

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Speaker 1: So let's get into what the format is going to

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Speaker 1: look like. Okay, what our listeners can expect.

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Speaker 2: Look, we hope to begin and when we take a franchise,

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Speaker 2: so it may be an iconic baseball franchise, basketball, football, hockey,

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Speaker 2: we're going to go college, we're going to go pro.

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Speaker 1: But sort of like the and from Soup.

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Speaker 2: To Nuts, how they started, how they you know, what

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Speaker 2: were the pivotal moments. Every every franchise has that near

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Speaker 2: death experience. Believe it or not, every program as a

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Speaker 2: near death experience. The lows, the highs, the greatest names

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Speaker 2: associated you name it. And also just for fun.

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Speaker 1: At the end, for every franchise that we do, we'll

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Speaker 1: look at the Mount Rushmore. We'll give our out and

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Speaker 1: Rushmars and we encourage you. Course those are subject to

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Speaker 1: debate and lead to a lot of disagreement and arguments,

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Speaker 1: so we'll encourage you through social media, email, whatever platforms

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Speaker 1: you want to use to give us your Mount Rusher,

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Speaker 1: tell us how we got it wrong. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we want to try to be interactive here as well.

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Speaker 2: Now I know some of you may be thinking, what

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Speaker 2: the hell is Check Todd doing there? You may say, Jay,

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Speaker 2: all right, you're a sports guy, I get it, what

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Speaker 2: the hell, But that's the idea what we want to

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Speaker 2: marry here. If you will, you've you've been in sports,

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Speaker 2: You've been doing this, You've covered in some cases, you

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Speaker 2: will have covered some of these events that we're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about. You know some of the people firsthand.

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Speaker 2: I'm a history junkie and I'm coming at it sort

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Speaker 2: of the way I come at politics, sort of context,

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Speaker 2: sort of well, tell me more about this and who

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Speaker 2: were the personalities and who are the drivers. So we

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Speaker 2: thought this would be a unique way to tackle sports

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Speaker 2: history is have somebody who's sort of almost both fan

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Speaker 2: and historian on one end, reporter and fan on the

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Speaker 2: other end, and.

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Speaker 1: The professor angle of it too. I've been teaching for

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Speaker 1: the better part of twenty years, doing a full time

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Speaker 1: for a decade, and I always try to impart to

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Speaker 1: my students the history. And as a journalist and a

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Speaker 1: journalism professor, one of the most important things we do

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Speaker 1: is journalists is the context, right, So a lot of

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Speaker 1: this is going to be putting things in the context

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Speaker 1: of their time.

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Speaker 2: And look, and one of the things about sports is that,

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Speaker 2: in many ways are the most important cultural changes in

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Speaker 2: society started in sports. Sports is in some ways the

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Speaker 2: first place. So that's why I've always incorporated so much

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Speaker 2: of my political coverage. Why yes, I'm a sports fan,

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Speaker 2: but I've also seen it.

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Speaker 1: It is fused.

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Speaker 2: In the politics and history of this country in ways,

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Speaker 2: in the same ways that the founding fathers and the documents.

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Speaker 1: Are and then are increasingly fractured. And I'm not even

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Speaker 1: getting into the politics aspect. So just the media is fractured.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's watching different things on their own device, is But

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Speaker 1: sports are a time in a moment when millions of

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Speaker 1: people simultaneously are experiencing something. So that's another reason that

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Speaker 1: makes it so great to discuss our country, our our values,

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Speaker 1: our history through the lens of sports, because it is

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Speaker 1: simultaneous experience by millions of people.

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Speaker 2: So, look, we're gonna each episode's gonna be a couple hours,

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Speaker 2: and it's going to be one franchise a couple hours.

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Speaker 2: We know you're going to listen to all seventeen hours

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Speaker 2: that we know gidding in one sitting. No, we don't

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Speaker 2: expect you to hear at one sitting, but we're going

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Speaker 2: to break it up and you'll have it. But and

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Speaker 2: you know, once a month we will have a deep

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Speaker 2: dive on one franchise. Within that month, we'll have an

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Speaker 2: interview with an iconic figure from that franchise.

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Speaker 1: And we're looking forward to this.

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Speaker 2: We think that this is something that we hope we're

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Speaker 2: doing for the rest of our professional lives.

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Speaker 1: Right, okay, absolutely, Well, we just get through episode one.

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Speaker 1: We'll see how this episode goes, and we'll get back

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Speaker 1: to you on the rest of it.

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Speaker 2: And with that, the first franchise, we are tackling.

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Speaker 1: The Dodgers. As a Los Angeles native, I can only

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Speaker 1: say it that way when I see the names, you're

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Speaker 1: Vin Scully's boys saying, the Dodgers from their time in

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn to the transformative move across the country to Los Angeles.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's you know now that we're we've decided we're

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Speaker 2: starting with the Dodgers, Let's quickly do Dodgers buy the numbers,

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Speaker 2: let's put let's put their the franchise baseball card anyway,

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Speaker 2: right there.

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Speaker 1: We go, So the Dodgers nine World Series championships aid

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Speaker 1: in Brooklyn or one in Brooklyn eight in LA and

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Speaker 1: twenty seven National League pennants.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty good, pretty pretty a losing record in the

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Speaker 2: National League. Yeah, you know, I mean, you know.

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Speaker 1: The braves of Buffalo Bills, you know, like you get there.

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Speaker 1: That counts for something. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's worth noting that it's only in the last it's

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Speaker 2: only in this most recent era of the Dodgers that

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Speaker 2: they caught the Giants for most pennants of the nationally.

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Speaker 2: So you know, take that Giants fans, right, and they

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Speaker 2: still trail the simul those Cardinals for World Series in

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Speaker 2: the National League it is Yankees Cardinals, and one would

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Speaker 2: assume that by the end of the show Hey era,

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Speaker 2: maybe they end up grabbing the Cardinals. Here, they're only

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Speaker 2: two behind. They've got nine, they're only two behind, all right,

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Speaker 2: they have fifteen. The Dodgers have won fifteen MVPs by

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Speaker 2: thirteen different players, with obviously the repeat being show Hey

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Speaker 2: back to back and Roy Campanello with three. A lot

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Speaker 2: of individual ones on that one. They've had. They've had

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Speaker 2: the most cy Young Award winners in baseball history, twelve

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Speaker 2: of them. Don nukeom Don Drysdale, Sandy Kofax won three

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Speaker 2: Mike Marshall. No, not you Dodger fans are going no,

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Speaker 2: not that, Mike Marshall. Not eighties Mike marsh And no,

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Speaker 2: they were not related.

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Speaker 1: Fernando.

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Speaker 2: Of course in eighty one Oral Hrsteizer Eric Ganie can

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Speaker 2: decide whether it was an enhanced scion or not. And

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Speaker 2: of course Kershaw with three on that one. And there's

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Speaker 2: another fun fact, most Rookie of the Year awards in

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Speaker 2: Major League Baseball.

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Speaker 1: It makes sense for the Dodgers that I grew up

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Speaker 1: with in the seventies and eighties, So they have twelve

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Speaker 1: retired numbers number one of Pee re Rees, timerlswordis number two,

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Speaker 1: Duke Snyder's number four, Gil Hodges is fourteen, Jim Gilliams nineteen,

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Speaker 1: Don Sutton's twenty, Walter Austin's twenty four, Sandy Cofax's thirty two,

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Speaker 1: Fernando Valenzuala's thirty four, Roy Campanella's thirty nine, Jackie Robinson's

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Speaker 1: forty two, which was retired throughout baseball, and Don Drivesdale's

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Speaker 1: fifty three. Fernando's the exception among those group. Can you

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Speaker 1: understand what what is that exception?

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Speaker 2: It's the it's a it's a Burr in my You

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Speaker 2: know what, He's not only one not in.

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Speaker 1: The Hall of Fame, right you only yeah, because that

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Speaker 1: was ther and that was why for so long his

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Speaker 1: number had not been retired by the Dodgers, because they

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Speaker 1: have a requirement that you need to be in the

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame Jersey. You know.

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Speaker 2: In our eighteenth episode on the Dodgers, I will make

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Speaker 2: an entire case of white Fernando and some of us,

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Speaker 2: some of us eighties Dodgers fans still blame Tommy Lasorda

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Speaker 2: for the for burning out Fernando's arm. But that's okay.

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Speaker 2: You know, Tommy was old school.

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Speaker 1: You know, we'll be talking Vealezuela later on.

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Speaker 2: This is the team of my youth. This is I

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Speaker 2: grew up a Dodger fan, Jay, did you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, although with some Giants fandom mixed in, believe it

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Speaker 1: or not. Because I grew up in La My grandparents

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Speaker 1: lived in San Francisco and they had a close family

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Speaker 1: friend by name of Franklin Lett, who was a Giant

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Speaker 1: season ticket holder. So you spend a lot of time

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Speaker 1: at Giants. I would go to Candlestick Park, But the

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Speaker 1: first game I ever went to, the first Major League

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Speaker 1: Baseball game I ever went to was a Dodger stadium.

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Speaker 1: That was the team of my youth. I was aposed

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Speaker 1: to them as I started getting into sports, and the

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Speaker 1: Dodgers were the team. And there's a moment where it

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Speaker 1: kind of all culminated to me. The moment that represented

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers and everything that they have done and accomplished

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Speaker 1: and what they mean to Los Angeles. Actually came in

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Speaker 1: New York, back in their ancestral homeland, after the Dodgers

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Speaker 1: beat the Yankees in the World Series in twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: and a rash Markazi posted this friend of mine, a

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Speaker 1: sports journalist, who posted it online social media. It's a

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Speaker 1: video in a subway station, I'm guessing the stop near

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Speaker 1: Yankee Stadium, and a bunch of Dodger fans celebrating the

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Speaker 1: World Series victory. Tupac's California Love is playing in the background.

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Speaker 1: And it starts off. You see a Japanese man. He's

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Speaker 1: got a fan with the Japanese flag on it, and

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Speaker 1: you know, clearly an a Tani fan who represent Otani.

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Speaker 1: And then there's a Latino man. It comes up, there's

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Speaker 1: a black woman, there's white people, there's this you know,

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Speaker 1: representative of the rich tapestry not only of Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: but a Dodger fand of and what this franchise has

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Speaker 1: meant to so many people, from Jackie Robinson to Shoho Tany,

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Speaker 1: Fernando of Venezuela, and it all kind of comes together

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Speaker 1: in this moment across the country from where they are now,

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Speaker 1: but back in their ancestral homeland of New York.

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Speaker 2: Well, and what's great is they've kind of always been

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Speaker 2: the team of sort of.

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Speaker 1: New America, New Americans. Right.

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Speaker 2: Brooklyn at the time in the late nineteenth century is

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Speaker 2: a borough of immigrants, and so they were always sort

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Speaker 2: of in some ways the outsiders trying to push in

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Speaker 2: to become the insiders. Look at I'd say, this is

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Speaker 2: team my youth. I grew up in Miami, Florida. You

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Speaker 2: think what, we didn't have any professional baseball. My dad

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Speaker 2: was a Dodger fan because you met Roy Campanella as

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Speaker 2: a kid.

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Speaker 1: So of course doctor Ketchery.

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Speaker 2: Had great Dodger Ketcher met him right here in Chicago.

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Speaker 2: Actually when he was a kid. There's this great family

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Speaker 2: story about my dad went up to him because it

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Speaker 2: actually I think my grandfather recognized him. I don't think

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Speaker 2: my dad was like five or six, and he says,

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Speaker 2: why don't you go ask him why he's not eating

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Speaker 2: his wheaties because he had just won the MVP and

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Speaker 2: back in the back then you were on the cover

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Speaker 2: that was forget the cover of Sports Illustrated, the cover

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Speaker 2: of wheaties. That was a big deal if you were

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Speaker 2: a big gold medal winner and baseball MVP. So there's

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Speaker 2: Roy Campanella and he wasn't eating his wheaties. They go

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Speaker 2: on to loose to the Cubs that day. They're staying.

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Speaker 2: I believe it's a dre Cotel. Campanella goes up to

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Speaker 2: my father the next day and he says, hey, don't worry,

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Speaker 2: I'm eating my wheaties.

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Speaker 1: Tip.

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Speaker 2: So it is been family lore and it's one of

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Speaker 2: those you know you think, all right, is that too

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Speaker 2: good to check? But for what it's worth, I have

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Speaker 2: a second source on him. My dad's sister witnessed the

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Speaker 2: moment and she swears she's still alive today and my

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Speaker 2: dad's not with us. She swears it also happened too.

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Speaker 2: So that's how I came about my Dodger fandom. Brain

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Speaker 2: watched by a father, Because isn't that what fathers do

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Speaker 2: to sons.

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Speaker 1: Well, that is something that gets passed down. And you

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Speaker 1: know that the Dodgers have meant so much to so

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Speaker 1: many people. And it's funny how the Brooklyn people, the

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Speaker 1: New Yorkers can never quite let go.

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Speaker 2: Well think about this. I was thinking about this. What

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Speaker 2: other franchise has its previous identity still a part of

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Speaker 2: its tapestry?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: There is something like you go to a Dodger game

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Speaker 2: in Dodger Stadium and you'll see almost as many hats

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Speaker 2: with bees on it as you do with.

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Speaker 1: La, right absolutely. And you you know the fact that

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Speaker 1: one thing that was seamless was Jackie Robinson, you know,

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Speaker 1: celebrated so much as an LA Dodger.

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Speaker 2: He never once played as an LA Dodg.

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Speaker 1: No, and but he feels very La. There's a statue

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Speaker 1: of from outside the park. I don't think you can

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Speaker 1: think of that for any other franchise that moved it.

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Speaker 2: But the other right, I mean think about it. Wait,

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Speaker 2: we have the Oakland A's, or the Sacramento A's, or

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Speaker 2: the Philadelphia A's or the Kansas City none of their

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Speaker 2: previous stops or that you kind of you don't feel

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Speaker 2: that way with the Braves. You don't think about even

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Speaker 2: though Hank Aaron's best stayer with Milwaukee. I can't think

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Speaker 2: any of these other French and none of them have

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Speaker 2: kept their old cities. Item means Arizona Cardinals have Chicago

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Speaker 2: in their DNA.

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Speaker 1: Not at all, right, not at all. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I think we'll get into what makes this team so special. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how the Jackie Robinson identity could transfer to Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: even though he never played, even though he was mad

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Speaker 1: at them at the time they were leaving, because they

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Speaker 1: just traded him to the Giants and he wanted no

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Speaker 1: part of playing for their rivals. And yet they were

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Speaker 1: able to get over that. And you know, still Jackie

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Speaker 1: is very much a part of the identity of this

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Speaker 1: team in some ways that a lot of people think

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Speaker 1: of it as the foundational part of the team. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean to get into it goes back a lot

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Speaker 1: earlier there, and that's the thing I mean.

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Speaker 2: And you know, look, most people, most Dodger fans think

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Speaker 2: the Dodgers were born in nineteen forty seven, you know,

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Speaker 2: which is when. And look, for many people, baseball wasn't

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Speaker 2: competitive until nineteen forty seven. Baseball wasn't baseball until nineteen

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Speaker 2: forty seven, and that's a very fair way to look

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Speaker 2: at it. But ultimately the Dodgers' history, Yes, the franchise

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Speaker 2: began its march to Dynasts to dynasticdom in nineteen forty seven,

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Speaker 2: but they had a whole identity for fifty years that

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Speaker 2: was kind of fledgling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, they come up to me. I know

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Speaker 1: it starts earlier than this, but to me, you know,

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Speaker 1: the ebbitts Field era, you know, when I think of

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Speaker 1: the Brooklyn Dodgers, you think of ebbitts Field opened in

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirteen. And there was a great description of it

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Speaker 1: in the book Forever Blue, which is one of the

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Speaker 1: source materials we used for this. And the description makes

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Speaker 1: me think of that the Grand Ballroom in Titanic the movie,

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Speaker 1: and just that that's such a key part of it. And

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Speaker 1: you see it again at the end, right when you're

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Speaker 1: Roses envisioning her life. And so it's described as having

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Speaker 1: Evis Field described as having an ornate rotunda with a

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Speaker 1: sword dome ceiling, gilded ticket booths with a white Italian

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Speaker 1: marble floor inlaid with red tiles, and a pattern of

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Speaker 1: stitches on a baseball. They had chandeliers that looked like

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Speaker 1: bats and baseballs. They had vallet parking outside, so.

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Speaker 2: It's well, but there's a reason they had to have

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Speaker 2: valet parking because it was shoved into a city there

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Speaker 2: was no parking, which, by the way, is one of

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Speaker 2: the reasons why they moved is because the O'Malley's wanted

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Speaker 2: a parking revenue. But we will we will get into

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Speaker 2: that as we go, as we go further. So to you,

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Speaker 2: what's the early part of the Dodgers, Well, this is

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Speaker 2: the part that was a lot of fun when we

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Speaker 2: decided to do this, because you know, even as a

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Speaker 2: Dodger fan, both of us thought we knew a lot

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Speaker 2: and then you werealize, oh my god, there's so much

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Speaker 2: more in the early days. So I think the most

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Speaker 2: you can't lose sight of the fact that the Dodgers

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Speaker 2: are born in eighteen eighty three. They're not the Dodgers then,

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Speaker 2: they're just sort of this Brooklyn baseball team. The same

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Speaker 2: year that the Brooklyn Bridge is completed and the Brooklyn

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Speaker 2: Bridge open, So you want.

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Speaker 1: To pick your at least the Brooklyn Bridge is still there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn Bridge.

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Speaker 2: As a writer who I have something, I have a

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Speaker 2: bridge to sign as a writer, right, could you think

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Speaker 2: of a better sort of parallel construction than the birth

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Speaker 2: of the bridge that connects Manhattan to Brooklyn and they

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Speaker 2: get a baseball team.

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Speaker 1: So it's just hard for me to imagine New York

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Speaker 1: without the boroughs being connected.

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Speaker 2: Brooklyn was even part of New York City at the time.

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Speaker 2: Brooklyn doesn't become New York City gets subsumed into New

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Speaker 2: York City in eighteen ninety eight, but that's it is.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's the borough of immigrants. It's let's just

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Speaker 2: say that the rich people in Manhattan weren't crazy about

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Speaker 2: the idea that, oh, these Brooklyn nights can come over here.

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Speaker 2: Now now of course it's all the Manhattan it's trying

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Speaker 2: to go to Brooklyn.

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Speaker 1: And just really kind of leaned into that identity. You know,

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Speaker 1: they were diverse, the crowds were diverse and reflective, and

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Speaker 1: you know, just like Broken probably wasn't acknowledged by the

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Speaker 1: Manhattanits right, you know, the Dodgers weren't acknowledged really, and

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Speaker 1: we weren't considered a worthy rival to the Yankees, who,

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Speaker 1: you know, by the nineteen twenties are really becoming the

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Speaker 1: New York Yankees, you know, the dynastic team that we

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Speaker 1: think of, you know, one of the major brands in

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Speaker 1: all this sport right now.

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Speaker 2: Most of you probably know some version of the Dodgers

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Speaker 2: are named after the for the trolley Dodgers and all

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Speaker 2: this stuff. But what was interesting in doing our research

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Speaker 2: here is that for essentially the first decade, they didn't

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Speaker 2: have a nickname. They just had whatever sports writers decided

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Speaker 2: to call them for one season. So one season they

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Speaker 2: were the Grays, they were the Atlantics.

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Speaker 1: I love.

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Speaker 2: One year seven players got married in the off season,

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Speaker 2: so they called them the Bridegrooms. How about that for

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Speaker 2: alternative uniform nite, Like let's have the rooms. Maybe we'll

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Speaker 2: have a wedding, you know.

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Speaker 1: When like a tuxedo, like our top.

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Speaker 2: Top hat tuxedo, right, that would be a fun. They

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Speaker 2: were the super Buzz whatever the heck that meant.

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Speaker 1: The Brooklyn Robbins, after the nickname of the manager, uncle

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Speaker 1: Robbie Robinson.

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Speaker 2: So in some ways they were a team in search

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Speaker 2: of an identity, just like Brooklyn was always constantly searching

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Speaker 2: for its identity. But that's kind of what made them

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Speaker 2: when you think of, you know, the Dodgers of the

362
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Speaker 2: fifties are seen as sort of the upstarts, the working

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Speaker 2: class team and all of this, and in many ways

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Speaker 2: that was their identity for fifty years now. Of course

365
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Speaker 2: their Hollywood, their glamor their glitz. They're everything the opposite

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Speaker 2: of what they were born.

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Speaker 1: They were. They were dem bums, right, which came from

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Speaker 1: a newspaper editoral cartoon I I think that's right. Paper

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Speaker 1: cartoonists came up with the dem bums nicknames. But you know,

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Speaker 1: they were hapless. One way to think of it is

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Speaker 1: that the Yankees had Babe Ruth. The Dodgers had Babe Herman,

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Speaker 1: whose pants once caught fire because he had put a

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Speaker 1: lit cigar in there during the game. So that was

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers. But EBITs Field was, you know, we talked

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Speaker 1: about the personality of the borough. It was kind of

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Speaker 1: a colorful, eclectic place that there was a woman who

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Speaker 1: rang a cow bell there during the games. There was

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Speaker 1: a band called the Dodgers Symphony that would play, so

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Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't a very sophisticated atmosphere despite the setting,

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Speaker 1: but it was kind of a rockous.

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Speaker 2: Every time you read about the Brooklyn Dodgers and the

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Speaker 2: community there. It actually strikes me the way minor league

383
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 2: teams today have a connection with their communities, meaning you know,

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Speaker 2: and that's the way baseball was, right they were. It

385
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Speaker 2: was both the only sport in town, but you were

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Speaker 2: constantly having to keep people's attention.

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Speaker 1: And at the ownership level it was kind of dysfunctional.

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Speaker 1: There was the Ebbitts family in the Kieber family, and

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Speaker 1: I love.

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Speaker 2: The Ebitts story though that he actually starts. He's not

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Speaker 2: the first owner. He starts by selling ticket. He got

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Speaker 2: the ownership the old fashioned way. He is a ticket

393
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Speaker 2: sales guy, cleaned the stand, uh, and then eventually it

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Speaker 2: becomes the owner in the early nineteen hundreds.

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Speaker 1: That's a little more romantic, i'd say than then the

396
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Speaker 1: Walter Mallet story, who was the lawyer before he took

397
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:18,800
Speaker 1: over the team. But but yeah, the the and the heirs,

398
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Speaker 1: as as the original Evotts and the Kiver get older

399
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 1: and their their heirs kind of take over. They'd spend

400
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 1: meetings like just glaring at each other like that's how

401
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 1: dysfunctional it was. They couldn't even function. And after after

402
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,440
Speaker 1: the original Evids died, col owner took control of the team.

403
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 1: But then he dies two weeks later after catching cold

404
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 1: at Evans's funeral, and I figured the historian you would

405
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:46,120
Speaker 1: appreciate it. It's kind of like like President way Harrison, right, yeah,

406
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:51,360
Speaker 1: cold at the inaugural after delivering the longest inaugural address

407
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,679
Speaker 1: on record, the eyes of a cold And also kind

408
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 1: of reminded me of the popes in the nineteen eighties.

409
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Speaker 2: Remember how they had one, We had one, We had

410
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 2: one die immediately after they you know, a couple.

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Speaker 1: Weeks later, there's the conclave again we have the second Pope.

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Speaker 2: The other fun little fact that I wasn't as familiar with,

413
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Speaker 2: So the Dodgers, when you're counting up their World Series

414
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Speaker 2: appearances and the al pennants, they have one National League

415
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 2: pennant that does count in eighteen ninety, and they appeared

416
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Speaker 2: in a World Series that does not count in eighteen ninety.

417
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 2: So you're asking yourself, well, why is that. Well, it

418
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 2: turns out this World Series in eighteen ninety was between

419
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 2: the winner of the National League, this was the Brooklyn

420
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,119
Speaker 2: team's first year in the National League, and the winner

421
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Speaker 2: of the American Association at the time, which is the

422
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Speaker 2: Louisville Colonels.

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Speaker 1: Louis Slugger.

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Speaker 2: I didn't either. So it is what's great about this

425
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Speaker 2: series is that it goes. It went seven games, but

426
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 2: one of the games, Game three, ended in a tie

427
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 2: darkness for darkness, and they figured they said, okay if

428
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 2: it was so after game seven they said, well, well,

429
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 2: the managers literally agreed before games something that whoever wins,

430
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Speaker 2: they'll just play a deciding game in the spring. Because

431
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 2: there was low attendance. There was also a third league.

432
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Speaker 2: There was a little bit of there was a player

433
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Speaker 2: revolt that we're arguing about the reserve clause landing. They

434
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 2: end up never resolving this world series. Louisville won three games,

435
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 2: the Dodgers won three games. One game ended in a

436
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,439
Speaker 2: tie because the darkness and cold. They never resolve it.

437
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 2: The Dodgers do get credit for that pennant. But the

438
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,639
Speaker 2: fun fact of that is actually what you just joked

439
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 2: about with the Louisville Slugger is that there was the

440
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 2: Louisville Star player was a guy named Pete Browning, and

441
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 2: he reportedly used a bat made by a young craftsman

442
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 2: named Bud Hillrich Brasby. There you go, and that bat

443
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 2: would eventually become the Louisville Slugger. So there's an accidental

444
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 2: piece of history that we ended up finding out digging

445
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 2: into that.

446
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 1: I was going to say, what's it sounds so Unamerican

447
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 1: to have the championship end in the tie, but yet

448
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: out of that comes one of the iconic American brands.

449
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 2: Right, But think about that first ten years, they don't

450
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 2: have a nickname. They're all over the place they end up.

451
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,400
Speaker 2: They start with Brooklyn when it's his own city. By

452
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 2: the end of the nineteenth century they're part of New

453
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 2: York City. They're still in search of a name, they're

454
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,920
Speaker 2: still in search of ownership. There's still kind of a

455
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 2: team in chaos, and you know.

456
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: It does come together somewhat and at least you get

457
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: a foundation at Ebsfield. But by the late thirties, already

458
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 1: the field is starting to fall into disrepair, and you

459
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: can say that's kind of the beginning of the end,

460
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 1: maybe the genesis of why they end up moving to

461
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, because their stadium isn't top notch anymore. But

462
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: that starts to change in the late thirties when Larry

463
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: Fail as a team president and he comes in and

464
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: really starts to turn a franchise around, and that may be.

465
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 2: It's sort of like if you think about the Dodgers

466
00:23:54,800 --> 00:24:00,040
Speaker 2: and pivot points, I think Larry McPhail is probably the

467
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: first most important fork in the road moment for the franchise.

468
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: I mean, just to show how, you know, despondent things

469
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: have gotten. He gets in there the office telephones had

470
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: been shut off because they hadn't been paying the bills.

471
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 1: There was a great concern team to go out of business,

472
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: like that's how bad they later would play bankruptcy. But

473
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: that was a twenty per century problem. Yeah, yeah, twenty percent,

474
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: you know. But he's forward thing we think, think about

475
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: a lot of the innovative things, you know, and I think,

476
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 1: you know, one way to look at this is the

477
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: Dodgers are the most forward thinking franchise in sports history.

478
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 1: I think it's not too much of an exaggeration to

479
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: say that.

480
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 2: They always in some ways, whether it I mean, you know,

481
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: whether it's been in business. I mean, and that's really

482
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 2: one of the themes that we've we really want to

483
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 2: focus on ears how many different ways they change the

484
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 2: game so they get everybody knows about Jackie Robinson, but

485
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 2: whether it's making the making the player acquisitions, more international development,

486
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: you know, sort of perfecting the farm system, even Dodger

487
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 2: Town spring training doing what they did. What spring training

488
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 2: is today arguably was a creation of the Dodgers system.

489
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: And even in business, right, the big business that is

490
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 2: the Dodgers today, moving to private equity doing all these

491
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 2: the idea of using a stadium to generate revenue and

492
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 2: value for your franchise, that's something Walter O'Malley envisioned, which

493
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 2: is why he left profile.

494
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: And you know, really mastering the regional sports networking. I

495
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 1: don't know how viable that is in the future given

496
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: the current state of regional sports networks, but that's been

497
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: a huge part of their success.

498
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: And yes they're a prolific spending in free agency.

499
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 1: But part of that is is because of the gigantic

500
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: regional sports network contract. But in fairness to the Dodgers that.

501
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 2: The iconic players don't really begin until after Larry McPhail.

502
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, and but it starts with some of the innovations

503
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 1: he does, right, So they had a radio band. It's,

504
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: you know, another way we talk about the icons of

505
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: the Dodgers, from Red Barber to Vin Scully, these incredible

506
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: broadcasters that they've had, but they had a radio band

507
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: by the Dodgers, and they all three agreed teams.

508
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 2: Do you hate the blackout rule today in baseball? Well,

509
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: this was essentially the blackout rule for radio because all

510
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 2: the owners thought, if you put the game on radio,

511
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 2: people won't show up. Because all the revenue back then

512
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: was tickets.

513
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: There are no big you know, no televisions as national,

514
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 1: national TV revenue, even local TV revenue. Right. So McPhail

515
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 1: not only does he end that band, he puts the

516
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: Dodgers back on the radio, and he made Red Barber

517
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: the announcer of the all time greats. And he can

518
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: pick him there. Larry King once said about Red Barber,

519
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: Red Barber was an indelible part of my life. He

520
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: was the best sports announcer I ever heard. His voice

521
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: is the earliest memory of my life. Him and Arthur Godfrey.

522
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: I never heard anyone do a baseball game like him.

523
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: He was a journalist too.

524
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 2: Well, and this this is the thing, and I think

525
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: this is what most franchises learn, which is that's how

526
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 2: so many people that's the identity that that was their

527
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 2: connection to the team, listening to the radio and having

528
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 2: over time building that kind of stickiness actually allowed that

529
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 2: team to One could argue, if it isn't for McPhail

530
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: that that franchise fails. Yeah, Manchis has failed all the time. Yeah, yeah,

531
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 2: they're they're teetering. And he was an innovator even before

532
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 2: he got to the Dodgers. So when he was with

533
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 2: the Cincinnati Reds, they tried the first night game in majors.

534
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: Interesting enough as actually as an idea that came from

535
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 2: the Kansas City monitors of the Negro League.

536
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: So you know, well, obviously the Negro Leagues will have

537
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: a major impact on the Dodgers coming up. But that's

538
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: one thing Ebitsfield holds to the first night game in

539
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: New York, not the first overall.

540
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: And how about what's this was the accidental part of

541
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 2: history here, So the first night game in New York,

542
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 2: Ebbitts Field happens to take, happened to host perhaps one

543
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 2: of the most historic moments in the history of baseball.

544
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, the date is June fifteenth, nineteen thirty eight. It

545
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: turns out to be the second of Johnny Vandermere's second

546
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: back to back no hitters, which to me, quick cyber

547
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: here shark, Yeah, the.

548
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 2: Most unbreakable record is Johnny Vadamer Cincinnati Red.

549
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: Right, we gotta make sure that right back to back

550
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: no hitters. Like to beat it, you gotta throw three

551
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: straight no hitters.

552
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what manager today lets anybody go three straight

553
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 2: complete games?

554
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: Right?

555
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 2: If you don't pitch your no hitter and under one

556
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 2: hundred pitchers, you don't get a shot at your no

557
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: hitter anymore.

558
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: So we'll go through a few other things that that.

559
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: Mapeil added one of the first organs in a Major

560
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: League ballpark, an idea he got from Thedi Vigual Madison

561
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: Square Garden. First Night World Series game is played at

562
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: Bield in nineteen thirty nine.

563
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 2: Interesting to be August of that year.

564
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: In thirty nine, NBC it spent one hundred and twenty

565
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,959
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars on the first mobile broadcast unit for

566
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: a televised game. It was a couple converted buses there

567
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: to game through cables that sent the signal to the

568
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: antenna's on top of the Empire State Building. So I

569
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: thought that was the Dodgers are linked to the Empire

570
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: State Building quite literally in that moment, at an innovative moment.

571
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: Not everything worked well. He had a yellow baseball that

572
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 2: they tried. He was kind of I mean, Larry McPhail

573
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: is Bill Veck before Bill Veck, And I'll be honest,

574
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: if we have to tell you who Bill Beck is,

575
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: then you're listening to a run podcasts. And I also

576
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 2: like this little fact about him. He was the first

577
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: one to use a plane to fly. He used to

578
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 2: have a team plane to allow his players to go

579
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 2: back and forth, and failed developed batting helmets after a

580
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,479
Speaker 2: Dodger outfielder Joe Medwick was struck in the head by

581
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 2: a pitch. And I got to read you this one

582
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 2: quote from Leo Daroschia about Larry McPhail. There's a thin

583
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 2: line between genius and insanity, and in Larry's case, it

584
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: was so thin you could see him drifting back and forth.

585
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 2: But that is what you need in an innovator, right, Yeah,

586
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 2: not everything again, yellow baseball maybe not. The best idea

587
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: is forty one. You mentioned Demijo's inning Street forty one.

588
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 2: That's the year the hitting Street.

589
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: Ted William hits four oal six, the Dodgers win the

590
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: NL pennant, but they lose to the Yankees. And then

591
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: comes December seventh, nineteen forty one, the day that will

592
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: live in infamy. And McPhail actually joins the army even

593
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: though he's older, but he wanted to serve his country

594
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: at the time, which leads us to branch Rickey.

595
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: And that gets us a branch Rickey, who himself is

596
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 2: probably one of the you could argue he's one of

597
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: the four or five most important people in history of baseball, right,

598
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 2: I mean what he did with the car.

599
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: First of all, he builds the Cardinals. He is a bay.

600
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the thing.

601
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: Branch Rickey and Walter O'Malley are the you know, it's

602
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,239
Speaker 2: probably the first two people most people associate when they

603
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 2: think of Dodger history. But branch Rickey, he could have

604
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: never been with the Dodgers, and he'd have been considered

605
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: an iconic executive for everything he did with Saint Louis, Right.

606
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: But it's what he does with the Dodgers that you know,

607
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: enshrines him in the history of baseball.

608
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: All right, Before we leave the McPhail era, in some

609
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: ways as the general manager, his legacy was was more

610
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: everything around the field and inside business side, and and

611
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 2: and obviously it's branch Rickey that essentially makes them iconic

612
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: on the field, But there is an important legacy that

613
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 2: McPhail has that he turned the team called Dodger Blue

614
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 2: Wood does not originally Dodger blue. Larry McPhail brought us

615
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: Dodger Blue and the script Dodger logo, which is still

616
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 2: in use today. It's it's arguably as iconic now, probably

617
00:31:58,520 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 2: as iconic as the Yankee logo.

618
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: So that's his lasting gift, right, what a party is?

619
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: I mean, the Dodgers wouldn't be the least the name

620
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: wouldn't look the same.

621
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 2: We have so much change in our society all the time. Right,

622
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 2: the same Dodger logo in nineteen thirty eight is what

623
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: light tweak.

624
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: It's a little descript, but it is general with.

625
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 2: The swoosh and everything is basically the same.

626
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:24,959
Speaker 1: You know.

627
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 2: You have teams like the Atlanta Falcons have change their

628
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: logo every other year.

629
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: When you're as iconic.

630
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: You know, that's another reminder if you want to be iconic,

631
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: don't mess around with your logo. Drege right classic and.

632
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,239
Speaker 1: Certain things like the Coca Cola logo, which is kind

633
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: of similar. I wonder if you got the idea for it.

634
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: You know, it's the script logo. Yeah, with the with

635
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: the slush underneath and Coca Cola.

636
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,959
Speaker 2: Halls is the dynamic ribbon. I think, oh, you're going

637
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:52,719
Speaker 2: to make me go to mark device. You're gonna make

638
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: me it on a Coca Cola rabbit hole. One of

639
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: my favorite book business books I read of all time,

640
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 2: the Unauthorized Biography of Coca Cola. They invented Santa Claus

641
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 2: Red Santa Claus. Yeah, yeah, that's a whole other aspect

642
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 2: of it.

643
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: But the classic logos Coca Cola and you could associate

644
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: the Dodgers put them in that class, but they never

645
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: seem old someone.

646
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: Those start to look old and.

647
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: Outdated one hundred years later, and these great logos don't.

648
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: So we transition. Larry macphild World War Two starts. He

649
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 2: joins the army. He in some ways rescues the business

650
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: of the Dodgers and incomes branch Rickey.

651
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: And Ricky comes from the Saint Louis Browns, very virtuous guy,

652
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: right part of the temperance movement that led the prohibition.

653
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: He traded one future All Star because he heard a

654
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: rumor that he smoked marijuana. He actually wanted the team

655
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: to go back to the Bridegrooms now because he valued

656
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: merit so much that he thought, hey, we should go

657
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: back to the old name of the bridegrooms from when

658
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: the team had so many married players. Republican might in

659
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: this modern verse, Republican Party might seem as an unlikely

660
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: candidate for the one of the great moments of desegregation

661
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: in our country. But you know, this is closer to

662
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: the Abraham Lincoln mode of the Republican Party right than

663
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: maybe the modern group.

664
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 2: And he's the builder at the time he built the

665
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 2: he arguably built the Cardinals dynasty of the You know

666
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 2: the Cardinals, A lot of their stardom was in those

667
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 2: first fifty year gas House game.

668
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, that era. That's a branch Ricky. You know, he

669
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: played at Ohio Wesleyan a nineteen fourth of Black teammate

670
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: named Charlie Thomas. And you know how did branch Ricky

671
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: become the way he did, right, and become one of

672
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: the principal figures of integration in the twentieth century. So

673
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: that their team went to South Bend to play Notre

674
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: Dame and they were told that his teammate Charlie Thomas

675
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: couldn't stay at the hotel you'd have to seek lodging elsewhere.

676
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 2: Ricky said, well, or Charlie.

677
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: Used to stay in my room. So it kind of

678
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: shows you that his integration of baseball was years in

679
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: the making, right, wasn't done in isolation and strictly at

680
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: that moment.

681
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 2: And it wasn't you know, some people thought it was

682
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 2: a business decision, and certainly acquiring better talent was obviously

683
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: a motivation, but clearly this was more embedded in who

684
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 2: he was.

685
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: And it's not just him, right, Like nothing happens, you know,

686
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: in a vacuum where with one individual, you know, mar

687
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: Lucy King gets a lot of credit. Like obviously it's

688
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: a whole you know, wave movement behind him. You know.

689
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: One of the.

690
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,399
Speaker 2: One of my most iconic memories of being a White

691
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 2: House correspondent was being so in two thousand and nine,

692
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 2: Barack Obama is going to throw out the first pitch

693
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 2: at the All Star Game in Saint Lois. So the

694
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 2: way that used to work pool duty being an Air

695
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: Force one, you rotate, all the networks were rotated. Happened

696
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: to be NBC's turn. So I bigfooted our producer, I said, nope,

697
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 2: I'm going I went on this one because I had

698
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: heard we were going to pick up some special guests,

699
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 2: and so this was he had a We did a

700
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 2: stop in Detroit, and he did sort of a campaign,

701
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: you know, sort of your typical presidential talking about you know,

702
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 2: I think he was pushing his h he had an

703
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 2: economic plan then, but he picked up too, uh uh,

704
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 2: two gentlemen and one particular icon gentleman by the name

705
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 2: of Willie Mays. So we're begging Robert Gibbs, the press secretary,

706
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 2: bring Willie Mays back to the press cabin, and he

707
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: brings Willie Mayes back to the press cabin, and so

708
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 2: we're all everybody's peppering him with questions. By the way,

709
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 2: first guy, what was it like Dan against Kofax. It's

710
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: like literally the first question of like this one. And

711
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: I came up to him, I said, what's it like

712
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 2: to be on this plane right now? And Willie just

713
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: said something very simple to me.

714
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: He said that it was all worth it and him

715
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: not even being able to get housing in.

716
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: San Francisco and here he is flying on the plane.

717
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: He knew exactly what I was asking. I didn't have

718
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 2: to say. Riding on Air Force one with the first

719
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 2: black president I just said, that's all I said in

720
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: He Goes that everything I went through was worth wow,

721
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 2: and it was such It's one of the most powerful

722
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 2: memories I have of the sort of Hey, you know,

723
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 2: we're so cynical as reporters, right, You're probably cynical when

724
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 2: it comes to some of the sports guys you cover.

725
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: I get cynical with politics, But that moment, and I've

726
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 2: always thought that this is what makes the moment of

727
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 2: Jackie Robinson and what branch Ricky did. I mean, branch

728
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 2: Ricky helped set the country on a path to like

729
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: Barack Obama president, right, And so when you when you

730
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 2: realize that this is what this moment means and it

731
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: might go back to a guy at Ohio, Ohio westling Ear,

732
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I just, I just this is why I

733
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 2: love doing from and why we wanted to do this

734
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 2: is that this all these threads all come together. This

735
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: is the American story, and this is why it's so

736
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 2: much fun to tell.

737
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 1: Us and so the America at this time, the mid forties,

738
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: you know, I'll go into historic mode for a moment here.

739
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: You know, we're coming out of World War Two and

740
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: so many black gis who had been to other parts

741
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: of the world, been to Europe, seeing how they were

742
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: treated there. They weren't discriminated against, you know, they were

743
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: considered American, they weren't considered negros as the term was

744
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 1: back then, and coming back and not feeling like they

745
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: wanted to accept the status quo anymore.

746
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 2: Hey, we've experienced fairness.

747
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: We've seen what it's like to be treated as a

748
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: full fledged person, human being, you know. So it starts

749
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: this animus, you know, as you get back home and

750
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: sort of this agitation and you know, refusal to kind

751
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: of go back to the way things were before they

752
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: had left for the war.

753
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 2: So that's out there.

754
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: You've got the black press, you know, sports writers like

755
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: Sam Lacy and Wendell Smith, who are you know, encouraging

756
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: baseball to integrate at his time. And you have the

757
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 1: communist press like the Daily Worker, who's in some ways

758
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: was ahead of the black press and wrote more stories

759
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: calling for integration than even the black press.

760
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's interesting about this, and I don't

761
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 2: you know, it's funny the word communism and what it

762
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 2: is seen as today. What people need to realize is

763
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 2: in the thirties and forties, the Communist party movement in

764
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 2: this country hadn't been dem Frankly, the Soviet Union discredited

765
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 2: the name right, But before the Soviet Union had fully

766
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 2: discredited the name, many what you would call progressives today

767
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 2: sort of affiliated with a lot of college professors. There's

768
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 2: a you know, the Oppenheimer, the great Oppenheimer Biger of

769
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 2: the movie that the book that the movie is based on,

770
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 2: gets into this, and it's sort of like when he's all,

771
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 2: you know, you know, when they're trying to go root

772
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 2: him out, aren't you a communist advisor? The fact is

773
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 2: in the thirties and most college professors were com and

774
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 2: a party sympathizes because they were the only party calling

775
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: for integration.

776
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:05,479
Speaker 1: This is what it was about.

777
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: It was the only party in an American politics, in

778
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 2: the social justice movement. Now again, the Soviet Union discredits

779
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: the word down the road, which is why I think

780
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 2: sometimes history messes this up to be frank.

781
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 1: So, their their point at the time was that capitalism

782
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: work by fostering the scent between the black and the

783
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: white workers, you know, and they were they were looking

784
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: to advance the workers. Communism work by or it succeeded.

785
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: It gained power in the United States right by recruiting

786
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: oppressed workers regardless of race, you know. And here, you know,

787
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: we talked about market inefficiencies, right, So if you have

788
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: an ignored group of people and you're trying to advance

789
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 1: your cause, So appealing to black people was part of

790
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: the way to strengthen communism, right, And they were saying, hey,

791
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: you know, we can build a movement through having the

792
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: most amount of people. And they saw baseball as part

793
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: of the way to broaden the fel of communist If

794
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: we appeal of these folks, you know, through our message

795
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: that we welcome them, you know, we'll have a stronger movement.

796
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: Another person I talk about him in my class who

797
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 1: was at the forefront of this, Shirley Povich the Great

798
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: Washington Post, for his calmness. So I actually had the

799
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: privilege of working like it's amazing. So I'm referencing a

800
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,399
Speaker 1: calm he wrote in nineteen thirty nine, amazing. I worked

801
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: alongside him at the Washington Post in the nineteen nineties.

802
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: You know Jerli Popric who was at the Dempsey Tunny

803
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: Long Count in Chicago. You know who was at the

804
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: Babe Ruth called shot game, Rickley Feel and he said,

805
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: Babe Ruth did not call a shot. He was pointing

806
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: at the picture, you know and calling him ALOUSI so

807
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: and so he wasn't calling at that right, I'm going

808
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: with Shirley Poprich's guy who was there. You can go

809
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: with the lore, with the mythology of the college shot.

810
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: Shirley Povich said he didn't call the shot. Well, and

811
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: this has been the struggle. You know, if Jay and

812
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: I have had one.

813
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 2: Struggle as we do this together, it's we don't want

814
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 2: to burst too many of your men bubbles. But you

815
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 2: know that's what happens. The more you the more you learn,

816
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:00,879
Speaker 2: the learn.

817
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: So what he saw in this November seventh game, Shirley

818
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: provits and Walter Johnson the age rain another great Scholey

819
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 1: provids like he'll just chople on, like Walter Johnson wants

820
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: told me Walter Johnson. So in this case, Shirley and

821
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: his buddy Walter Johnson go to a Negro League game

822
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: in Orlando. It's a Homestead Grays versus Newer Eagles, and

823
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: Povish writes, there's a couple of million dollars worth of

824
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: baseball talent on the loose, ready for the big leagues,

825
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: yet unsigned by any major league clubs. They're pitchers who

826
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 1: would win twenty games this season for any big league

827
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 1: club that offer them contracts. And they are outfielders who

828
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: woud hit three fifty infilters, who could win quick recognition

829
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: of stars. Only one thing is keeping out keeping them

830
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: out of the big leagues the pigmentation of their skin.

831
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: They happen to be colored. That's their crime in the

832
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 1: eyes of big league owner.

833
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 2: This is Shirley Povich in nineteen thirty nine. So here

834
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 2: we are so a branch rickey. He signed these guys

835
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 2: in nineteen forty five. People forget and this was always

836
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 2: something to me. It's interesting. We talk about nineteen forty

837
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 2: seven and April fifteenth to nineteen forty seven, but he

838
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 2: does this two years earlier when he signs. When he signs,

839
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 2: three players are pretty quickly in succession, Robinson and Don Newcomb,

840
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: then Roy camping out.

841
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: And he's very purposeful. So he tells Red Barber, the

842
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: Dodger broadcaster in nineteen forty five, I'm going to bring

843
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: a Negro to the Dodger, to the Brooklyn Dodgers. So

844
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: again it's not yeah like in the movie, work.

845
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 2: Right, it's all just like happened. No, I mean this

846
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 2: was you know, look, this was carefully planned out. This

847
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 2: was signed in nineteen forty five, integrated into the minor

848
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 2: league system, so that there was essentially you know, this

849
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: wasn't just hurry up and expose these young men to

850
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 2: what was going to be a very hostile environment. And

851
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 2: it also say it helps because they died.

852
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: But the healthy Kennison Mountain liond this the longtime baseball

853
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 1: commissioner who was very anti integration.

854
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 2: He dies a hard disease.

855
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: Age seventy eight and nineteen forty four, right, so that

856
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 1: not his dead body.

857
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 2: Not a coincidence. It finds that it's nineteen forty five.

858
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 2: Kenna saw mad Lands has to die right for baseball

859
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 2: to integrate in nineteen forty five. I think what's interesting

860
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 2: is is is the the decision why Robinson versus Campanella

861
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 2: versus newcome right, and there was always been then there's

862
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 2: a lot of miss there's a lot of mythology and

863
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 2: lore about which, but ultimately with it makes a lot

864
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 2: of sense to me why Ricky thought Robinson was the

865
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 2: guy to handle the moment. He was college educated, he'd

866
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:49,919
Speaker 2: gone to Ucla. He lived in a milder racially, right,

867
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: And you dug up a fun fact about because you know,

868
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 2: one of the things that doesn't it gets lost, is

869
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 2: that the NFL technically integrated before Major League Baseball. Yeah,

870
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 2: there was a specific law of why this happened.

871
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, and it also goes to speak the place

872
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: of baseball and football. The reason why we think of

873
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: Jackie Robinson and we think about the Dodgers moving to

874
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,399
Speaker 1: LA as being you know, this transformative moment in sports. Well,

875
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 1: the Rams had done it earlier, right on both counts,

876
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: but baseball was just so much more important that it

877
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 1: didn't matter as much until baseball did it. So the

878
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 1: Rams had integrated the NFL the year before, and they

879
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: moved to Los Angeles a decade before the Dodgers. First

880
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,720
Speaker 1: of all, they integrated the NFL the year before Jackie

881
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: Robinson joins the Dodgers. They weren't as heralded, though. You

882
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: can make a case the Rams integrated because they moved

883
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: to Los Angeles. So they played in the coliseum, right,

884
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 1: it's still in use today by the USC. It was

885
00:45:55,600 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: publicly owned and California had anti segregation laws. So the Rams,

886
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: in order to play in the coliseum had to be integrated,

887
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: and so they signed the running back Kenny Washington with

888
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 1: Jackie's teammate, and.

889
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: So it is, and there's a by the way the

890
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 2: Rams will be. The Rams play an interesting role here too,

891
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 2: because the Rams initial struggle to just function as a

892
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 2: franchise and have to travel by train is why eventually

893
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 2: Walter O'Malley convinces the owner of the Giants toock on

894
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 2: West with him so they could have a slightly easier

895
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 2: time creating a Major League Baseball.

896
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: But you talked about Jackie as you know, the choice

897
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: and why, and so one thing that is, maybe it's

898
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: kind of true. We're not firsting a bit. But August

899
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: twenty ninth to nineteen forty five, Jackie goes to the

900
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: Dodgers offices and Ricky meets with them and hits him

901
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,320
Speaker 1: with every racist tunt he can think of. Jackie stood

902
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: up and you know, a little bit contentious, but you know,

903
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: ranch Ricky made him promise not to retaliate, you know,

904
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: if you're subjected to these types of tons, and.

905
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: Well, we remember Robinson was actually had a little bit

906
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: of was known to have a temper. Odam Court martial

907
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 2: in the Army in nineteen forty four. So in some ways,

908
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,240
Speaker 2: because of that moment, this was Ricky sort of saying okay,

909
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 2: and why was he court martial because he refused to

910
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 2: go to the back of a segregated army bus at

911
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 2: Fort Wood, Texas. And that's why Robinson was court martialed.

912
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 2: So he was very principled. We look back at it,

913
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 2: that would be a heroic move, but it wasn't treated

914
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 2: by an heroic move by our US government.

915
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: So Robinson passes the test in this moment, and then

916
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: our COVID twenty third nineteen forty five signs the contract

917
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: with Montreal Royals February tenth, and next year he marries

918
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: Rachel who was still with its twenty six just an amazing,

919
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: amazing book.

920
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: What's interesting is that what's funny about Jackie Robinson because

921
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,280
Speaker 2: it you know, you look at his Major League baseball

922
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 2: playing career and you think, oh, was kind of a

923
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 2: short career, But he was twenty eighth nineteen forty cent. Yeah,

924
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 2: he was actually by the way, today, nobody would want

925
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 2: to sign a twenty eight year old. He don't give

926
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 2: him a long term contract. Is already passed his prime,

927
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 2: but in some ways that extra few years of maturity.

928
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 2: I mean, Campanella was twenty three and had only had

929
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 2: an eighth grade education, and that was something that Ricky thought.

930
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: He didn't want to put Campanella in that position. And

931
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 2: Nuklem was super young, he was nineteen.

932
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I had thought of the drawbacks. You

933
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: know that the segregation, you know, denied the Dodgers, denied

934
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball, denied Jackie these opportunities. But putting it

935
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 1: that way that you know, they might have benefited just

936
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: because of what they were going into, right, being better

937
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: prepared to deal with what they were about to face.

938
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,319
Speaker 1: You know that they came along at the right time,

939
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: right they were born at the right time, because it

940
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: allowed them to face this moment at that age.

941
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 2: In you'll like, I have one more fun fact for you,

942
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 2: because as the sports writer of the two of us here,

943
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 2: you'll appreciate this. So brand Tricky was talking to various

944
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 2: people to get advice about which black players to sign,

945
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: and one guy he consulted was a gentleman by the

946
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 2: name of Wendall Smith, who was the writer for the

947
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 2: black weekly The Pittsburgh Courier and Bill Veck always claimed

948
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 2: that Wendall Smith should get credit for Jackie Robinson because

949
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,439
Speaker 2: he reckoned he initially recoonsentid that Robinson had the right

950
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 2: combination of talent and temperament.

951
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's it's kind of being I don't know, corroborated,

952
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 1: but that's kind of become the accepted.

953
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 2: Narrative of it, because, you know, if you just want,

954
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 2: we're saying who is the best of the three. Campanella

955
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,879
Speaker 2: was the best player in the in in the Negro

956
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 2: leagues at the time of his signing, arguably.

957
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 1: But a lot of people credit Wendall Smith for just, yeah,

958
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: for making branch Ricky aware of Jackie Robinson right and

959
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: bringing him to his attention. So the players, supposedly, you know,

960
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: the white players on the Dodgers, there was stories that

961
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: they were going to sign a petition saying that they

962
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: didn't want to play with him. The rocher, the manager

963
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 1: was worried that he wouldn't get a World Series bonus

964
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 1: without Jackie, so he tells him they could take their

965
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 1: petition and wipe their asses with it. He said, I'm

966
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: the manager of the ball club and I'm interested in

967
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:42,280
Speaker 1: one thing winning, So I guess that was the last revolt,

968
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: internal revolt that they get snuffed out, and then the

969
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: Dodge making official on April tenth, arguably the most significant

970
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,280
Speaker 1: short statement. You know, we think a great short statements

971
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 1: like Mike Jordan, I'm back, Yeah, but the exact wording was,

972
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: the Brooklyn Dodgers today purchased the contract of Jackie Roosevelt

973
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: Robinson from the Montreal rot Royals. Report.

974
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 2: Immediately there you go with that. Baseball is changed forever

975
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 2: on that front. Jackie Robinson was never comfortable with the

976
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 2: position he was putting, was he, if you believe.

977
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: His memoir, Although he accepted it though you know he

978
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 1: did wear it. It was hard. It's hard to to

979
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,439
Speaker 1: dispute or counter the notion that going through this led

980
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: to look at the constitution of his wife, Rachel.

981
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 2: She in some ways is and you know, it's just

982
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 2: a it's remarkable, demanding. I'm confessing my age. Jackie Robinson

983
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 2: died the year I was born, nineteen seventy two, and

984
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 2: here's Rachel Robinson and someone who's been alive longer and

985
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 2: has been missus Jackie Robinson's had She's had to be

986
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 2: this identity and that's not you know, that's that's that's

987
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 2: that's not a choice. That's just sort of in some

988
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 2: ways thrust upon her. But she has been in some

989
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 2: ways she's helped. I think, uh, just magnify the ways.

990
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:18,720
Speaker 1: And magnifies great work because she's magnificent and regal.

991
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 2: And I had the privilege of interviewing her once I

992
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 2: meet the press with Ken Burns when they were doing

993
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 2: that updated version of Baseball and they updated it. Yeah,

994
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 2: he's just majestic. When you see her in the room,

995
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 2: there is it's a there's this feeling it's almost like

996
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 2: a grand dame. Like it's just like police part ways,

997
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 2: you know. And I don't want to say the word

998
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 2: diva to make it sound like a negative more of

999
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 2: in the no no, no, no, she is she is.

1000
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 2: There's a feeling of royalty one.

1001
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: Thing with Rachel while we're on here, you know, going

1002
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 1: forward the legacy of Jackie, it was interesting, so it

1003
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: became somewhat ironic as Jackie Robinson Day was celebrated and

1004
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 1: bud Sea League and one of the great things he

1005
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: did in the Senior's Commissioner, you know, retiring Jackie's number

1006
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: throughout baseball and having everyone on April fifteen. All players

1007
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: too out baseball. We're number forty two. And the sad

1008
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: part though, was that there were some years in which

1009
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: the Dodgers didn't have any black players on the roster

1010
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: as they celebrated Jackie Robinson Day. That's always stuck with

1011
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: me that you know, we can celebrate, you know, the

1012
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: globalization of the game. And as we take this, we're

1013
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: just coming off the fantastic you know, well Place Well

1014
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: Baseball Classic, and you know, we see how much the

1015
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: sport matters to so many places and how many people

1016
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 1: are getting the chance to play, regardless of their background.

1017
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 1: But let's not forget what Jackie Robinson fought for. You know,

1018
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: the opportunities for black players have been denied until he

1019
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: came around, and what he had to endure to keep

1020
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:45,280
Speaker 1: the dove for black players to polish.

1021
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 2: No, it's been interesting as baseball came back to Washington,

1022
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 2: and Washington is a largely African American city and to see,

1023
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 2: I always say Washington and LA and New York and

1024
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 2: there's only a handful of cities where the fan base

1025
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 2: is as diverse as the players on the field. And

1026
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 2: you see that and what the Nationals have done a

1027
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 2: pretty good job of the James Wood c. J.

1028
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 1: Abrams.

1029
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 2: They're one of the few teams that have multiple African

1030
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 2: American players starting.

1031
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: But it is, it is.

1032
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 2: It is still something that's in the single digits percentage wise,

1033
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 2: and it's just it's it's it really bothers baseball. Have

1034
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 2: you noticed that Baseball's leaders it's not something they're comfortable about.

1035
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: It's kind of interesting, you know, we think at this

1036
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: moment when I celebrate now full fifteen ninety forty seven

1037
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:40,280
Speaker 1: six thouts at emits Field, little mention of Jackie Robinson

1038
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: in the New York Times, I've called up the column

1039
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 1: and showed it to my classes before, Like it's like

1040
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 1: the twentieth paragraph from the.

1041
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 2: Calumnist or ano they're plane land safely at an airport

1042
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 2: or something. As how they treated it.

1043
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's basically like, yeah, you know, you know the

1044
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 1: negro player did okay, and you know it didn't seem

1045
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: to be at an issue. Fortunately, Sam Lacey was there

1046
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 1: from the Baltimore Afro American and he actually rides home

1047
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 1: with Jackie. He in Yeah, the only interview, so you know,

1048
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 1: none of so the black sports writers weren't allowed in

1049
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: the clubhouse. You know, the clubhouse is still and the

1050
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: white writers weren't that interested. Well, first of all, they

1051
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 1: didn't really go in the clubhouse a lot then anyway,

1052
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 1: and quotes from players that kind of comes along later

1053
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 1: in vinje's' sixties. But but Sam Lacy rides home with

1054
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: him and and basically Jackie's thoughts, and he says, you know,

1055
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 1: that went along swell, and he's very pleased that there

1056
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: weren't that many issues with his teammates, and I think

1057
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 1: he was bracing for some. But he's just kind of

1058
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 1: satisfied and relieved, and thank goodness for Sam Lacey that

1059
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,240
Speaker 1: we have this, you know this, Really the only things

1060
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: that we hear from Jackie on that day, on this

1061
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 1: historic day are in the car ride home.

1062
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 2: Let me throw something at just get in the Hall

1063
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 2: of Fame without that moment with Jackie.

1064
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: So, you know, Jonathan I, who wrote the book Opening

1065
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 1: Day about Jackie's adamant about it, and it was kind

1066
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 1: of debunked that the moment which the references, you know,

1067
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:18,760
Speaker 1: they're they're getting all kinds of cat calls and booze

1068
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 1: and things in Cincinnati, I believe is where it's supposed

1069
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:23,280
Speaker 1: to have taken place. Right, and that pee Wee Reeves

1070
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: goes over and puts his arm around Jackie Robinson. There's

1071
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: no contemporary accounting for that in all the writing of

1072
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: that season. There might have been a moment that happened later. Well,

1073
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 1: Reece confirms the moment. He told Roger Kahn. He said,

1074
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: I was just trying to make the world a little

1075
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 1: bit better. That's what you're supposed to do with your life,

1076
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 1: isn't it. And Rachel Robinson is quoted as saying, I

1077
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: thought it was a very supportive gesture and very instinctive

1078
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 1: of pee Wee's part. You shouldn't forget that pee Wee

1079
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: was the captain, he led the way. Pee Wee was

1080
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: more than a friend. Pee Wee was a good man.

1081
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 1: And that's Rachel Robens. But if it did happen, it

1082
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 1: didn't happen that a the way. Yeah, there might have

1083
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 1: been a moment that happened later, and it wasn't quite

1084
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 1: as dramatic. But Jonathan i Fol surprize winning biographer of

1085
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,800
Speaker 1: Martin Luther King with biographies of Ali in addition to

1086
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 1: Jackie Robinson, he insists that it didn't happen is the

1087
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 1: way it's gone down and right, and and you like

1088
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 1: to have these Hollywood moments, right, we like to tell

1089
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 1: ourselves these stories. And it didn't always play like you know,

1090
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: one of the reasons. So for the book, Rachel kind

1091
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 1: of pushes back on it out it's hissing. Both Jackie

1092
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: and Rachel kind of came around to it. Pee Wee

1093
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:38,959
Speaker 1: Reese kind of.

1094
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 2: Well, because it seems like they all wanted and clearly

1095
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 2: pee Wee Reese played that role. Yeah, generally he was

1096
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 2: the team captain. He made it clear, Hey, I'm okay,

1097
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 2: so you better be okay. Right, So there's no doubt

1098
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 2: that Rachel and Jackie are forgever grateful that Pee Wee

1099
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 2: Reese played a leadership role, right, whether it was that

1100
00:57:57,760 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 2: moment it is not.

1101
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: They even made statue I think, you know they really Yeah. Well,

1102
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: here's what Jackie wrote in his own memoir. This is

1103
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: a good quote.

1104
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 2: He wrote about a similar incident. Wasn't in the Cincinnati

1105
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 2: in forty seven. He writes about an incident in Boston,

1106
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 2: Auston in forty eight, and he says in Boston, during

1107
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 2: a period when the heckling pressure seemed unbearable, some of

1108
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 2: the key some of the players began to heckle Reese.

1109
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 2: They were writing him about being a Southerner and playing

1110
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 2: ball with a black man. Pee Wee didn't answer them

1111
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 2: without a glance in their direction. He left his position,

1112
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 2: walked over to me and put his hand on my

1113
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 2: shoulder and began talking to me. His words weren't important.

1114
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 2: I don't even remember what he said. It was the

1115
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 2: gesture of comradeship and support that counted. So the point

1116
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 2: was the Robinsons clearly knew that Peewee was in their

1117
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 2: corner and he wasn't going to do se But he

1118
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 2: grew up in Kentucky, which Kentucky border state as it's there.

1119
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: Were a lot of Southern players that the Brooklyn Dodgers,

1120
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:54,439
Speaker 1: but a lot of their players came from the South,

1121
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 1: and you know, not all of them were as welcoming

1122
00:58:58,280 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: to Jackie.

1123
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 2: And it is worth pe we reason never signed the

1124
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 2: petition to say when the when the players were. When

1125
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 2: there were some players circulating a position saying that they

1126
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 2: wouldn't play with Robinson v was called out.

1127
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 1: Pe We've refused to sign it.

1128
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 2: So this is so regardless of the legend, this is

1129
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 2: a case where maybe the maybe maybe the story itself

1130
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 2: isn't true, but the spirit is factually true.

1131
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 1: The Dodgers win a pennant that year, they lost to

1132
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 1: the Yankees in the World Series, which this.

1133
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 2: Really arguably begins the legend that is the Dodgers Yankees rivalry.

1134
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 2: When you say that, you know that in some ways

1135
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 2: forty three eight it like all they're more of a

1136
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 2: legit rival to them, because it's finally the Dodgers actually

1137
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 2: weren't that successful or a franchise really until yes, they

1138
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 2: had a couple of pendants here there, but forty seven

1139
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 2: is arguably the beginning of their march towards dynastic.

1140
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: Kiss Jackie helps the National League attendance average one point

1141
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: three million for team that year, which was a record.

1142
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: So not only the Dodgers had twenty thousand distionale tickets sold,

1143
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: that was ten percent of the boost that year. But obviously,

1144
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 1: you know, we go on the road and you know,

1145
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: black people around the country. Was to the extent that

1146
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 1: they that they were not allowed to Yeah, yeah, it's

1147
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 1: an extent that they could come. You know, they couldn't

1148
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 1: sit everywhere in the ballpark for sure, but they uh,

1149
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 1: you know, he was box office too.

1150
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 2: The nineteen fifties Dodgers. It's a first of all. Campanella

1151
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 2: wins three MVPs in five years, it feels like and then,

1152
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 2: of course like the next big moment in Dodger history

1153
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 2: is the loss of Campanella.

1154
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 1: Arguably, Yeah, and in well before the loss of it,

1155
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: there was a great victory in nineteen fifty five, right,

1156
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:48,959
Speaker 1: and that's what.

1157
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 2: Makes it so much harder. Right, fifty five. By the way,

1158
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 2: I love this. He was remember in the there was

1159
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 2: about ten years it seemed like the Giants only could

1160
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 2: win it even numbered years. Well, Camping only won MVPs

1161
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 2: at not numbered Yeah, fifty one, fifty three, and fifty five.

1162
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 2: I don't know why not fifty fifty two, fifty four

1163
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 2: not so good. But fifty one to fifty three, fifty

1164
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 2: five he wins the MVPs, and fifty five.

1165
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: Is the one they finally break through, the final breakthrough

1166
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: and win. Johnny Padras the winning pitcher and the championship

1167
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 1: clinching game was seriously. My link to that came kind

1168
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: of decades later. So. Kareem Abdul Jabbar, who grew up

1169
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: in Harlem, was a Dodger fan, as most black fans were,

1170
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,439
Speaker 1: regardless of where you live, right, Black, We were rooted

1171
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 1: for the Dodgers, right, a big Dodger fan from their

1172
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: time in New York, and so the Lakers in nineteen

1173
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 1: eighty five. So thirty years later we're the thing. It

1174
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: seems like a short time now now back, But thirty

1175
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 1: years later they finally beat the Celtics for the first

1176
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 1: time in franchise history. Remember Kareem singing he felt like

1177
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: Johnny Padre, you know, beat in the.

1178
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 2: Yankees because he's an old Yeah he was, you know,

1179
01:01:57,600 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 2: grew up in New York City.

1180
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I thought that it was an instant reference

1181
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: for a basketball player in nineteen eighty five to look

1182
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 1: back to nineteen fifty five and the Dodgers. But it

1183
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 1: just showed you kind of the enduring impact of that moment,

1184
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 1: and you know, the moment that the underdogs come out

1185
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: on top.

1186
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 2: And that's and that's their reputation. I will I will

1187
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 2: admit that the Dodgers being the King of the King

1188
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 2: of Baseball over the last few years is so weird

1189
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 2: to me because the entire identity of the Dodgers has

1190
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 2: always been the underdog, the other bureau burrow, the outsider,

1191
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 2: the bombs right that, you know, they've always been the

1192
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 2: you know, and and they couldn't buy their way in.

1193
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 2: They weren't the rich guys. They were the working class guys,

1194
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 2: you know. And so it is sort of strange for

1195
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 2: me that now they're the Now they're the rich guys,

1196
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 2: they're new money. You will Walter O'Malley in many ways,

1197
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 2: he's probably, you know, we've got he's another one here.

1198
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 2: You've got the We have Larry McPhail, you have branch Rickey,

1199
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 2: and then you have Walter O'Malley and Walter O'Malley. What's

1200
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 2: interesting about him is that he joins the Dodgers just

1201
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 2: simply as legal counsel.

1202
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. He works with the Brooklyn Trust Company, which handled

1203
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 1: a lot of the Dodgers financing, and he finds out

1204
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: that the McKiever family wants to sell their shares in

1205
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: the team because they notified.

1206
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:19,439
Speaker 2: The team lorder.

1207
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 1: He's the team lawyer, and he winds up buying instead,

1208
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: though the more valuable shared the average shares for a

1209
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: million dollars in mid forties. There's a great what if

1210
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 1: in the book Forever Blue about the Dodgers that Joseph Kennedy,

1211
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 1: scion of the Kennedy family had considered buying a share

1212
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 1: of the Dodgers for one point three million and installing

1213
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: his son Jack Kennedy as a president of the team.

1214
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 2: About that so over, George W. Bush, Yeah, Jack Kennedy

1215
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 2: could have been the first baseball mana president.

1216
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 1: Maybe he doesn't go into politics all those things. I mean,

1217
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 1: that's a pivotal moment in the history of the country, right.

1218
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting also is that he kind of out

1219
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 2: maneuvers Branch Rickey their partners at first. But Branch Ricky

1220
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, cared about baseball. Walter

1221
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 2: O'Malley was a businessman, and.

1222
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a power struggle, and so O'Malley wants up

1223
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 1: buying him out. And then after that he makes it

1224
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:19,240
Speaker 1: clear that in order to work for the Dodgers, you

1225
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: have to wear a personal allegiance to him. So all

1226
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 1: the Ricky loyalists would have to go. And then Ricky

1227
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 1: gets hired to run the Pittsburgh organization, and the number

1228
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 1: of his people and scouts, they in front office people,

1229
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 1: they leave Brooklyn to join him. The ones who stayed

1230
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 1: three noble ones stayed with O'Malley, Buzzy Bavas, Rescoe, Thompson,

1231
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 1: and now Campani. The base in campanis in particular names

1232
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 1: that stayed with the Dodgers and resonate for a decade.

1233
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 2: Not to sort of go to the end before we

1234
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:49,880
Speaker 2: go to the beginning of the sort of the move

1235
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 2: to La you know, spoiler alert, the Dodgers end up

1236
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 2: moving to La here. But my favorite little nugget from

1237
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 2: Buzzy Vives is that so they took a vote in

1238
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 2: the Dodger organization about doing the move. It was eight

1239
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 2: to one against moving, but there was one vote that

1240
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 2: mattered the most. Let's just say it was Walter home

1241
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 2: Alley's vote. Well, what's interesting is how look, O'Malley understood that.

1242
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,919
Speaker 2: And to me, this is what gets to our theme

1243
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 2: of barrier breakers. Like okay, he was like, how do

1244
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 2: I find more revenue? And he saw the stadium as

1245
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 2: key to more revenue. State he'd love parking revenue, He'd

1246
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 2: love so at first he was trying to figure out

1247
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 2: how can he reconstruct Abbottsfield, How could he find a

1248
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,959
Speaker 2: way to you know, find more parking or find find

1249
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 2: new ways Because we were seeing the suburbanization right after

1250
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 2: World War Two, there was the suburbanization. Yeah, it's a

1251
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 2: changing Brooklyn in the fifties.

1252
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: Now post war, the white Brooklyn Nights are moving further out,

1253
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 1: so they're losing the core of their fan base. The

1254
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Navy Shipbuilding Yard, which should you know peak during

1255
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 1: the war effort that that's down literally by fifty one.

1256
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 1: The black was chrolley that ran by ebbitts Field to

1257
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 1: want to help give the team the nickname, right stopped running,

1258
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 1: So how can you even be the Brooklyn Dodgers anymore?

1259
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 1: And abts Field is.

1260
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, starting to fll apart and arguably you know,

1261
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 2: so this is where this is why, this is frankly

1262
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 2: why you and I joined forces. Right, I'm coming at

1263
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 2: it in some ways as a political history buff. This

1264
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 2: is the debate who lost the Brooklyn Dodgers. Do you

1265
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 2: blame Robert Moses, you blame Walter O'Malley and I am?

1266
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 1: I am sort of of.

1267
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 2: The mindset that in some ways they just they just

1268
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 2: had two different visions of what American city life was

1269
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 2: going to look like. O'Malley assumed he wanted a stadium

1270
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:46,160
Speaker 2: that was urban. He wanted a stadium that was frankly

1271
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 2: available on public transportation right, and Moses assumed that the

1272
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 2: car was going to I mean, look, this is why

1273
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 2: that he built all those horrible highways that exist.

1274
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 1: Now to this day.

1275
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 2: But he assumed everything was going to be suburbanization, which

1276
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 2: is why he rejected every idea that Walter O'Malley had

1277
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 2: for either building a new stadium or expanding in Brooklyn.

1278
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 2: He desperately wanted to move the Dodgers to Queens.

1279
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of ironic that Dodger Stadium in la

1280
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 1: becomes like a shrine to the automobile culture of the fifties.

1281
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 2: Right when O'Malley actually was this guy. I mean, you know,

1282
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 2: when we think about our debates today about suburbanization versus urbanization,

1283
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 2: and you know, how reliant are we on the car,

1284
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 2: it is ironic that the owner, the guy that was

1285
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 2: on the side of no, no, no, no, we should make

1286
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:41,919
Speaker 2: it public available for public transportation, goes to the least

1287
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 2: friendly public transportation community in America.

1288
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 1: Well, it's instant that the book Forever Blue of that

1289
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 1: side of the lot, it's pretty favorable to O'Malley that

1290
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:54,080
Speaker 1: it takes the stance that O'Malley did everything he could

1291
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 1: to try to keep the Dodgs, that he was interested that,

1292
01:07:57,560 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, even while he's like flying to La for me,

1293
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 1: like still advocating and keep the team in Brooklyn.

1294
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:07,640
Speaker 2: Now we should talk about the fact that La wanted

1295
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 2: a team. LA was shopping for a team, and there

1296
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 2: was a lot of Look, there was a time, I

1297
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 2: think that Dodgers are the only team making money in

1298
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:17,559
Speaker 2: the National League at one point in the fifties. I mean,

1299
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 2: baseball was not making money and you had you had

1300
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 2: the Saint Louis Browns moved to Baltimore, you have the

1301
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:29,679
Speaker 2: Boston Brace movement in Milwaukee. There's there's everybody searching for

1302
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:32,719
Speaker 2: new revenue. And it wasn't the way moves are driven

1303
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 2: today over stadium arguments. So supplans wasn't an option.

1304
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: Not yet. Yeah, they weren't really thinking in terms of expanding.

1305
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 1: And you had a glut, right you had three teams

1306
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 1: in New York, had two teams in Philadelphia, two teams

1307
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 1: in Boston, two teams in Chicago, two teams in Saint Louis.

1308
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 2: It was an East Coast it was very, very sort

1309
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 2: of dominant.

1310
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 1: So moving teams kind of made sense if you think

1311
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 1: about it that way.

1312
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 2: What if O'Malley and Moses continued to negotiate, and the

1313
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:01,639
Speaker 2: New York Giants moved LA because the New York Giants,

1314
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 2: I mean, look, the Dodgers were making money. They had it,

1315
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:07,759
Speaker 2: They had a devoted fan base, They were making money.

1316
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 2: The Giants were not. The Polo grounds was as bad

1317
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 2: a shape as abb Its Field was. The Polo Grounds

1318
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:16,800
Speaker 2: were worse. He was their ownership. He was looking at Minneapolis,

1319
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:20,320
Speaker 2: he was looking all around. He could have easily ended

1320
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 2: up in LA at first, or you know, before the

1321
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 2: Dodgers ended up making it.

1322
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 1: See you talk about how it was more driven by

1323
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,639
Speaker 1: the LA people wanting the Dodgers to move more than

1324
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,680
Speaker 1: O'Malley wanting out of New York, like talking about how

1325
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 1: he kind of had a lot of different options and

1326
01:09:37,320 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 1: interests that he had things he wanted to do in

1327
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 1: New York. But one of the people behind us was

1328
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:45,920
Speaker 1: Vincent X. Flaherty, the LA Examiner columnist, who was writing

1329
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:48,320
Speaker 1: letters to So not only was he writing about it,

1330
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 1: you know, out there, but he was writing to O'Malley

1331
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 1: trying to convince him to move the team or to

1332
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:55,160
Speaker 1: sell the team to someone who had moved into LA.

1333
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 1: Kind of reminds me of like he's with the La Examiner,

1334
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 1: but you know, like LA Times kind of in bed

1335
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 1: with moholland the developer who eventually led to, you know,

1336
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 1: the the annexation of the San Fernando Valley and water Wars,

1337
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 1: and it's kind of fictionalized in the movie Chinatown. This

1338
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 1: caused me to go down a Chinatown rabbit hole in

1339
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 1: the research for this. But but the noson of a

1340
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:26,840
Speaker 1: newspaper columnist as a real advocate, you know, his name

1341
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 1: pops up a lot in his flarities. It's like really

1342
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 1: really pushing, you know, he had connections with the politicians,

1343
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 1: and he was really pushing O'Malley to move the Dodgers

1344
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 1: out THELA.

1345
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 2: My favorite little nuggets basically thinks by the way to

1346
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:43,559
Speaker 2: that to that reporting, there's this great website, Walter O'Malley

1347
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 2: dot com that that Vincent Flaherty's work is featured in.

1348
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,880
Speaker 2: But there's a few little, uh fun facts here that

1349
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 2: any Dodger fan should know. And I didn't know this

1350
01:10:54,920 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 2: that O'Malley actually had to purchase the rights essentially to

1351
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 2: LA from the Chicago Cups and Philip Wriggley because there

1352
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,560
Speaker 2: was a Wrigley Field in LA and any kind of

1353
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:15,240
Speaker 2: in minor league team. So there's this great story, according

1354
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:19,559
Speaker 2: to Flaherty, that they're at the It's February third and

1355
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 2: fifty seven, the New York Baseball Writer's Dinner at the

1356
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:25,599
Speaker 2: Astro Hotel, and O'Malley scribbles on the back of an

1357
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 2: envelope to Philip Wrigley, and he says, how much will

1358
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:31,839
Speaker 2: you take for the LA Angels and Wrigley Field. Wrigglely

1359
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 2: writes back two million for the real estate and ballpark

1360
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:35,560
Speaker 2: and one million for the franchise.

1361
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: There you go, That's.

1362
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 2: That's how business was done in New York City nineteen

1363
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 2: fifty seven. He finally signs the deal with LA's negotiator

1364
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,679
Speaker 2: in August of fifty seven, just to technically two days

1365
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:54,920
Speaker 2: after the Giants announced that they're moving to San Francisco,

1366
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 2: but it was but the National League owners vote unanimously

1367
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:00,559
Speaker 2: in May of fifty seven to allow both the Dodgers

1368
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 2: and the Giants to basically give them permission to move.

1369
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 2: But it was O'Malley that convinced the Giants owner Horace Stonem,

1370
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,559
Speaker 2: who was going to go to Minneapolis, to instead No no, no, no,

1371
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 2: come out west with me. And again it goes back

1372
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 2: why I wanted to bring up that La Rams moment.

1373
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 2: It goes back to the frustration the Rams had in

1374
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 2: trying to literally the closest franchise to the Rams in

1375
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:26,760
Speaker 2: the NFL in nineteen forty six was the Chicago Cardinals.

1376
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:30,559
Speaker 2: You know, how much of this do you put on.

1377
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:35,760
Speaker 1: Robert Moses, who had a lot of power existing because

1378
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:36,880
Speaker 1: he wasn't an elected official.

1379
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 2: He's the most powerful, basically arguably the most powerful unelected

1380
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 2: official in twentieth century politics, right, and how he chooses

1381
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 2: to design cities and the whole highway culture. In some

1382
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,679
Speaker 2: ways you could argue that it actually influences the interstate

1383
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 2: highway system too. His the theories of basically cities or

1384
01:12:56,320 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 2: pass throughs for the suburbs, and look, there's.

1385
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:02,440
Speaker 1: I would.

1386
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 2: I have acquired a negative view of mister Moses, so

1387
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 2: I am inclined to his vision of the city is

1388
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 2: turned out to be wrong. I mean, if you think

1389
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:18,600
Speaker 2: about what New York City is today, it is not

1390
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:23,640
Speaker 2: this suburban you know. So he so his theory of

1391
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 2: the case was wrong. But if but to me, the

1392
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:33,680
Speaker 2: move west was inevitable for America, Let alone, right, Like,

1393
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:37,040
Speaker 2: so if it's not the Dodgers, somebody else goes this

1394
01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:39,799
Speaker 2: doesn't like the move west was going.

1395
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:42,599
Speaker 1: To happen, just like baseball was going to integrate. Yes,

1396
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:43,719
Speaker 1: it was going to happen.

1397
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:46,120
Speaker 2: Somebody had to be first, right And if it wasn't

1398
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 2: the Dodgers, it might have been you know, for all

1399
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:50,720
Speaker 2: we know, it might have been the Milwaukee Braves that

1400
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:53,240
Speaker 2: end up over there, or you know, I don't think

1401
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 2: we fully appreciate that it there was a huge demand

1402
01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:01,799
Speaker 2: out west to essentially linked, you know, to get the

1403
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:03,679
Speaker 2: culture of the East to come out west.

1404
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 1: So there was a Brooklyn Sports Authority that had been

1405
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:08,840
Speaker 1: formed to try to, you know, come up.

1406
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 2: With the stadium solutions.

1407
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 1: Doves. Remember they're playing in the smallest stadium in nationally

1408
01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 1: thirty two thousand.

1409
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 2: But Robert Moses said no to every single Brooklyn He

1410
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 2: just did not believe in Brooklyn. That's the story. And

1411
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:23,640
Speaker 2: I think that that's where I will I fall on

1412
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:25,000
Speaker 2: the side of its Moses' fault.

1413
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:27,280
Speaker 1: And he wanted Queens, which is eventually where the Mets

1414
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:27,680
Speaker 1: wound up.

1415
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 2: It's where say stadium ends up. I mean, because he

1416
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 2: saw Queens as the gateway to Westchester County and the

1417
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:35,439
Speaker 2: gateway to Long Island, and he assumed that that's where.

1418
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:38,280
Speaker 2: And by the way, that's who the Mets are. They

1419
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:41,920
Speaker 2: are this arguably the suburban New York team, and the

1420
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 2: Yankees are the urban.

1421
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:43,639
Speaker 1: New York team.

1422
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 2: You know, they're not physically that far. And that's yeah.

1423
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:48,160
Speaker 1: Of course the Mets color is made up of the

1424
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 1: blue for the Dodgers, in the orange for the Giants.

1425
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,640
Speaker 1: Find the Mets colors for the two departed teams to

1426
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:56,840
Speaker 1: make up for that. So all right, so we go

1427
01:14:56,880 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 1: to La a little bit of foreshadowing the Valle Ready, yeah,

1428
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 1: we can get ready to leave Brooklyn. O'Malley went on

1429
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:09,439
Speaker 1: a trip with the Dodgers in Japan, came back, there's

1430
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 1: no progress. He goes out to LA to look for

1431
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: a new plane for the Dodgers again there earlier. That

1432
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:17,680
Speaker 1: goes up to La Flatty drives him around, including a

1433
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:22,479
Speaker 1: tour Chavez Ravine, which was the proposed spot for a stadium.

1434
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 1: Right it's near two different freeways and two white built

1435
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:31,839
Speaker 1: uh bullvards. La Mayor. Mayor Poulsen had opposed public housing.

1436
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:36,280
Speaker 1: He considered the socials, so you know, communism and socialism

1437
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 1: helps integrate baseball. But now well after the war, well

1438
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 1: into you know, che was supposed to be a public housing. Yeah,

1439
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:47,640
Speaker 1: and he kills it because he considers the socialism, you know,

1440
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 1: he's anti socialism. So there was a thirty three hundred

1441
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 1: unit project proposed for Chevez Ravine and so so he

1442
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 1: spikes that project, which leaves the area open for the Dodgers.

1443
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 1: And so there's a lot of kind of blowback and

1444
01:16:01,479 --> 01:16:05,400
Speaker 1: negativity towards the Dodgers or you know what wound up

1445
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:08,200
Speaker 1: happening like particularly with Mexican America. Yeah, you know, I mean,

1446
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 1: because you know, houses are bulldoze. It picked literal people

1447
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:13,920
Speaker 1: being dragged out of the houses. Is yeah, there is

1448
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:14,719
Speaker 1: la country.

1449
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 2: So there were only twenty families remaining living in Chavez

1450
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 2: Ravine by by nineteen fifty nine. And literally the eviction,

1451
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:28,960
Speaker 2: the forcible eviction, was on television. It's known as black Friar,

1452
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 2: Furniture hauled onto the street. News cameras were filming this,

1453
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:35,960
Speaker 2: so it is it is one of these black eyes

1454
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:38,640
Speaker 2: on the Dodgers. And the question is, so we go

1455
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:42,080
Speaker 2: to who do you blame O'Malley or Moses for Brooklyn?

1456
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 2: How much blame do the Dodgers get for Chavez Ravine.

1457
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 2: From the O'Malley point of view, he didn't really know

1458
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:55,599
Speaker 2: the history of this. He saw it as a map.

1459
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 1: He was it's only been to La a couple of times, right.

1460
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:03,599
Speaker 2: But there was such steep opposition because first of all,

1461
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 2: this is what makes this deal, I think so important,

1462
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:10,360
Speaker 2: because arguably what happened, the deal that Dodgers end up

1463
01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:15,240
Speaker 2: getting from the city then frankly becomes what every owner

1464
01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:19,280
Speaker 2: hopes to get from a city going forward, basically free land,

1465
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 2: tax free for a period of time.

1466
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:22,439
Speaker 1: Here's this.

1467
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:25,360
Speaker 2: So here is the deal that O'Malley got at the time,

1468
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:29,480
Speaker 2: and this had never happened. Before he gets a city contract.

1469
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:34,120
Speaker 2: He has to privately financed, build and maintain a fifty

1470
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 2: thousand seat stadium. He has to pay five hundred thousand

1471
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:39,840
Speaker 2: dollars to develop a youth rec center, sixty thousand dollars

1472
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:42,240
Speaker 2: annually for twenty years, and he has to put the

1473
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:46,160
Speaker 2: land on the property tax rolls beginning at three hundred

1474
01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:48,679
Speaker 2: and forty five thousand, nineteen sixty two, all in exchange

1475
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:52,240
Speaker 2: for roughly three hundred acres. But he was but this

1476
01:17:52,360 --> 01:17:55,000
Speaker 2: was valued about a little over two million dollars, I

1477
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:57,360
Speaker 2: mean in those dollars, which was a big deal. So

1478
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 2: essentially it's what you've seen many today. Hey, this is commonplace,

1479
01:18:01,240 --> 01:18:04,600
Speaker 2: right the sports owner in the city they're negotiating, you know,

1480
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:06,960
Speaker 2: can we get the land tax free, can we own

1481
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 2: the land, you know, whatever it is, or you get

1482
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:11,639
Speaker 2: a one dollar lease if the city owns the land.

1483
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:17,120
Speaker 2: But in many ways, this is the origin story of

1484
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 2: what now is commonplace in sports franchises.

1485
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 1: Well another side note of this. You know you talked

1486
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:25,640
Speaker 1: about how you know the Angels and Rigley Field out there,

1487
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:29,760
Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Angels, So yeah, the Dodgers purchased them

1488
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:32,559
Speaker 1: in order to get the territorial rights to LA, you know,

1489
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:35,439
Speaker 1: to precede all this stuff. But something else that came

1490
01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:38,920
Speaker 1: with that was they got the logo, so that interlocking LA.

1491
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:40,720
Speaker 2: Which has becomes originally the Angels logo.

1492
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was the LA Angels and the Dodgers

1493
01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:45,040
Speaker 1: adopted that. So when they came out west.

1494
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:51,000
Speaker 2: So I mean, talk about stepbrother syndrome if you're the Angels.

1495
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 1: Like this has been a constant.

1496
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:54,680
Speaker 2: The Dodgers are a constant thorn in the side of

1497
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:58,719
Speaker 2: the They steal their logo. Seventy years later, they steal

1498
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:01,599
Speaker 2: the most important player twenty first century in baseball at

1499
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:02,439
Speaker 2: Shoe Odi.

1500
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:04,799
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, you know, if.

1501
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 2: I were longtime Angels fan, my hatred for the Dodgers

1502
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 2: would be at levels that would be you.

1503
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 1: Know, what's instant. It wasn't that much of a rivalry though,

1504
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:16,560
Speaker 1: never have out there, Like nobody to me and my

1505
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:19,200
Speaker 1: friends were fans of the Dodgers and the Angels. You know,

1506
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:23,200
Speaker 1: it's sad, but true inter league play changed that a

1507
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:26,120
Speaker 1: little bit. But when they never used to play each other,

1508
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 1: you could be a fan of both, Like, it didn't

1509
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 1: interfere at all. I think, Yeah, there started to be

1510
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:35,120
Speaker 1: some resentment, and then you know when the Angels rebranded

1511
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:37,880
Speaker 1: themselves as Los Angeles Angels, and they didn't go over

1512
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:43,000
Speaker 1: very well. You know what what was interesting was that

1513
01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:45,760
Speaker 1: the you know, they kind of the final straw was

1514
01:19:45,800 --> 01:19:48,080
Speaker 1: that the fans weren't coming out to support it in

1515
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn. Still. Yeah, the you know, Flowerty really really

1516
01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:59,960
Speaker 1: is behind this. Yeah, there's unanimous boat to let the dog,

1517
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:04,400
Speaker 1: and so there's no resistance you know, coming from the league.

1518
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:06,920
Speaker 2: Because they all know they're all having these financial troubles.

1519
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:09,160
Speaker 2: I mean, this is the dirty little secret, right, That's

1520
01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:11,919
Speaker 2: why it was so important to remind people. The fifties

1521
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:15,360
Speaker 2: are seen as this golden age of baseball, and as

1522
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:16,640
Speaker 2: a business it was anything but.

1523
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:22,240
Speaker 1: So the interesting thing is that there's you know, there's

1524
01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:27,559
Speaker 1: the go ahead right to come to LA, but it's

1525
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:29,120
Speaker 1: still not secured.

1526
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:32,080
Speaker 2: Well, they start right in the LA Coliseum, right, so

1527
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:34,719
Speaker 2: they have first of all, every attendance record in baseball

1528
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 2: is still owned by the Dodgers in the LA Coliseum days, right, Yeah,

1529
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:41,040
Speaker 2: ninety thousand to see this, ninety thousand, to see that.

1530
01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:45,519
Speaker 1: They had to There was there was pushback, There was

1531
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:48,320
Speaker 1: there was challenge to the deal that had been arranged.

1532
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:51,479
Speaker 1: So there's actually a referendum on the ballot for June

1533
01:20:51,479 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 1: of fifty eight challenging this whole deal is in place.

1534
01:20:56,240 --> 01:21:00,599
Speaker 1: And they wound up having a funding telecast l fashion.

1535
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 1: They have a telethon at the vote, the passage of it.

1536
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:06,320
Speaker 2: The Dodger Thon and kt TV. It is a Who's

1537
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:08,599
Speaker 2: Hollywood of the nineteen fifties.

1538
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:12,479
Speaker 1: Jerry Lewis, de Wie Reynolds, Dan Martin, George Burns, Jack Benny,

1539
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:13,919
Speaker 1: five hour broadcast.

1540
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:16,960
Speaker 2: Hey wait, you left out what Ronald Reagan. Ron Reagan

1541
01:21:17,080 --> 01:21:18,800
Speaker 2: was on a Ronald Reagan as well.

1542
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 1: They get lobbied in favor of by Bob Cobb, who's

1543
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:24,360
Speaker 1: the owner of the famed Brown Derby restaurants. The voter

1544
01:21:24,479 --> 01:21:27,800
Speaker 1: sentiment was against the stadium actually before the telethon. Yeah,

1545
01:21:28,280 --> 01:21:31,200
Speaker 1: per the polling and reporting of that time. But thanks

1546
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:34,839
Speaker 1: some parts of the telethon, sixty two percent voter turnout.

1547
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:39,120
Speaker 2: It's the largest non presidential election turnout in LA history

1548
01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:41,400
Speaker 2: at the time, by the way you talked to it.

1549
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:44,120
Speaker 2: LA had to change when they hold mayor's races because

1550
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:47,040
Speaker 2: nobody was voting in them these days, right, But back then,

1551
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:51,439
Speaker 2: this was some serious interest in the community. They cared

1552
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:54,360
Speaker 2: about this issue. And it passes literally by twenty five

1553
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:56,840
Speaker 2: thousand votes. To turnout of over six hundred thousand people

1554
01:21:57,720 --> 01:22:02,280
Speaker 2: came three percentage points, by the way, not uncommon. Look,

1555
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:08,920
Speaker 2: arguably this sort of this tension about do you use

1556
01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:12,200
Speaker 2: public funds to do this? And this goes back you

1557
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:15,479
Speaker 2: go back to the debate about Moses versus O'Malley. I

1558
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:20,400
Speaker 2: will say I take Moses's side on one issue, which

1559
01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:23,559
Speaker 2: is the stadium is a public good. Who does the

1560
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:27,040
Speaker 2: stadium belong to Is the stadium belonged to the public,

1561
01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:30,000
Speaker 2: Does the stadium belong to the franchise? And I think

1562
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:35,000
Speaker 2: Moses ultimately believed it should be a public facility that

1563
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 2: a private group paid to have access to, versus I

1564
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:43,280
Speaker 2: think O'Malley said no, no, no, no, no, it's partly find

1565
01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:44,000
Speaker 2: privately finding.

1566
01:22:44,160 --> 01:22:45,760
Speaker 1: He was very proud of the fact that this was

1567
01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:49,439
Speaker 1: the first privately financed stadium since Yankee Stadium. The Yankee

1568
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:52,720
Speaker 1: Stadium and I think nineteen twenty three, right, and so yeah,

1569
01:22:52,760 --> 01:23:00,120
Speaker 1: that Baltimalley dot com website points that out very pridefully.

1570
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:04,559
Speaker 1: But first they're in the coliseum, you know, like you said,

1571
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:07,759
Speaker 1: seventy thousand come out to watch their first game against

1572
01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 1: the Giants. When they're playing against the White Sox and

1573
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:12,559
Speaker 1: World Series in nineteen fifty nine, more than ninety thousand

1574
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:17,120
Speaker 1: people come out. They you know, you have an oval,

1575
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:20,200
Speaker 1: you know, so traditional kind of track. Remember there used

1576
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:21,760
Speaker 1: to be a track around it because they built for

1577
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:27,320
Speaker 1: the Olympics, right, So there's oval track shape football primary stadium.

1578
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:31,400
Speaker 1: They had to configure it into a baseball diamond. They

1579
01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 1: had right handed power hitters and their rosters, so they

1580
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:38,839
Speaker 1: made the left field the closer one, Dodge Stadium gets passed.

1581
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:40,920
Speaker 1: It opens in nineteen sixty two at a cost it

1582
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 1: twenty three million dollars. What's interesting, it's the oldest modern

1583
01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:46,879
Speaker 1: stadium and it's the newest old stadium.

1584
01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:50,080
Speaker 2: It's the third oldest stadium in the Big leagues right now.

1585
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 1: Benway Park nineteen twelve Wrigley Field nineteen fourteen are the

1586
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:53,920
Speaker 1: only two that are older.

1587
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:56,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's a fun here, Well to hit you with

1588
01:23:56,880 --> 01:24:00,080
Speaker 2: a trivia quesh right now, what's the what's the of

1589
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:02,920
Speaker 2: the Dodgers. So Wrigley Field and the Dodgers are the

1590
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:03,760
Speaker 2: two oldest stadiums of.

1591
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:08,479
Speaker 1: The National League. What's third? Third after that?

1592
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:13,360
Speaker 2: Because it will it actually only underscores your point.

1593
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:14,920
Speaker 1: The third oldest.

1594
01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:18,680
Speaker 2: No, it's Course Field, the third oldest stadium in the

1595
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:20,840
Speaker 2: National League. Now is actually Course Field?

1596
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:21,479
Speaker 1: Wow?

1597
01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:25,639
Speaker 2: And it's that just shows up in Denver, Colorado, which

1598
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:28,800
Speaker 2: opened in the early nineties. But that is how much

1599
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 2: the stadiums have turned over you now have, and that's

1600
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 2: why the Dodgers Stadium, it's funny, it's you're right about it.

1601
01:24:35,080 --> 01:24:39,479
Speaker 2: It still feels modern. It's considered one of the first

1602
01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:44,080
Speaker 2: new stadiums, and it is now a bridge between the

1603
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:48,400
Speaker 2: old and what is today's modern ballpark.

1604
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:51,479
Speaker 1: So it's fortuitous because it's built before the rise of

1605
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:53,800
Speaker 1: the multipurpose stadiums in the sixties, and that's one of

1606
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:58,240
Speaker 1: the reasons it's aged so well. So later you know,

1607
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:01,519
Speaker 1: you know, you if these students are designed the comedy

1608
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:05,000
Speaker 1: book football and baseball and winds up being bad for both, right,

1609
01:25:05,320 --> 01:25:08,240
Speaker 1: And this didn't have that horrible stadiums, And you're right.

1610
01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 2: I remember first time I moved to DC in nineteen

1611
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:14,400
Speaker 2: ninety and first time I go to RFK, which was

1612
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:17,639
Speaker 2: the first of these multi purpose stadium correct, And I realized, oh,

1613
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:20,240
Speaker 2: and I'd already been to Veterans and I had been

1614
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:25,599
Speaker 2: to Shay, and You're like, good God, these stations are terrible.

1615
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 2: And the Bush was this way. There was a version

1616
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:32,960
Speaker 2: of Saint Louis had one, Cincinnati had one, Pittsburgh had one,

1617
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:37,679
Speaker 2: Philadelphia had one. Shay Stadium and they were just Fulton

1618
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:40,439
Speaker 2: County Stadium was this, Yeah, they.

1619
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:44,360
Speaker 1: Were Candlestick Park gets redesigned and Anaheim Stadium because reconfigured

1620
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:47,599
Speaker 1: to accommodate both and one of the King the Royals,

1621
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:52,360
Speaker 1: I think too no, no, no, they were said, yeah, yeah,

1622
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:53,879
Speaker 1: so they're they're kind of the angels.

1623
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:57,040
Speaker 2: One that was there right right, But the r was

1624
01:25:57,080 --> 01:25:58,240
Speaker 2: another one. Yeah, it was terrible.

1625
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:00,360
Speaker 1: Actually was the last of these to still be used.

1626
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:02,439
Speaker 1: It was the last one when the A's and Raiders

1627
01:26:02,439 --> 01:26:05,240
Speaker 1: were still there. One of the keys that dodgors steam

1628
01:26:05,360 --> 01:26:08,040
Speaker 1: was the club level because that allowed it to be

1629
01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:08,920
Speaker 1: converted to.

1630
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:10,879
Speaker 2: Luxury suites in the nineties.

1631
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:14,320
Speaker 1: So you know, one reason some of those old things

1632
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:16,439
Speaker 1: got small data is that one went toward luxury seats

1633
01:26:16,439 --> 01:26:19,080
Speaker 1: and premium seating and you just couldn't accommodate those in

1634
01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:21,519
Speaker 1: the old like like Qualcom. Another one, you know San

1635
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:23,760
Speaker 1: Diego Jack Murphy Stadium as it was named for a

1636
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:26,479
Speaker 1: while after the great sports writer out there, only after

1637
01:26:26,479 --> 01:26:28,720
Speaker 1: at sports writer.

1638
01:26:28,000 --> 01:26:30,519
Speaker 2: It was just hard to adapt these.

1639
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:32,679
Speaker 1: But but Dodda Stadium with Justin Bray where we feel

1640
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:34,560
Speaker 1: actually justin well. They put the suites in there and

1641
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:35,920
Speaker 1: they fit in pretty well.

1642
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:39,080
Speaker 2: And even benway with what they've done with the state

1643
01:26:39,200 --> 01:26:39,599
Speaker 2: the seats.

1644
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:42,760
Speaker 1: I love the fact that Dodgers Stadium still looks the same.

1645
01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:45,360
Speaker 1: So I was watching that. There's a DVD that had

1646
01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:49,440
Speaker 1: some of their early Dodgers World Series just highlight films,

1647
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:51,959
Speaker 1: and you watch it and you're watching the Sandy Kofax

1648
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 1: pitch in the nineteen sixties, and it's the same setting

1649
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:57,080
Speaker 1: that we saw sho hal Tany pitch, you know. Currently.

1650
01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:59,559
Speaker 2: The only real difference is that they didn't have the

1651
01:26:59,600 --> 01:27:03,439
Speaker 2: two scoreboards taglat right. They had one for the longest time.

1652
01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:05,280
Speaker 2: And then so when.

1653
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:08,000
Speaker 1: We talk about, you know, the Dodgers being innovators, so

1654
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:11,280
Speaker 1: really the first stadium, certainly in baseball, the first stadium

1655
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:15,640
Speaker 1: big screen was Dodger Stadium in nineteen eighty they got it.

1656
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:18,360
Speaker 1: They were hosting the All Star Game then. And it's

1657
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:20,960
Speaker 1: funny because it was called Diamond Vision. I always thought

1658
01:27:20,960 --> 01:27:22,640
Speaker 1: it was called diamond vision because you were looking at

1659
01:27:22,680 --> 01:27:25,120
Speaker 1: the Baseball doc. It's actually called diamond Vision because it

1660
01:27:25,160 --> 01:27:28,479
Speaker 1: was built by Mitsubishi, which you know the Loco dim

1661
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:31,360
Speaker 1: the diamond, and so it was Diamond vision, same as

1662
01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:33,240
Speaker 1: how you know everyone of he first to the scoreboards

1663
01:27:33,240 --> 01:27:35,799
Speaker 1: now it was the Jumbo Trons. That was because Sony

1664
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:38,400
Speaker 1: built the Jumbo Tron. They had the Trendi Tron was

1665
01:27:38,439 --> 01:27:41,080
Speaker 1: their television back then. The stadium version of that that

1666
01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:43,800
Speaker 1: they built was the Jumbo Tron. The Jumboton kind of

1667
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:47,559
Speaker 1: went out over Mitsubishio, though Mitsubishi built the Cowboys Stadium,

1668
01:27:47,640 --> 01:27:50,920
Speaker 1: the giant that was actually Minsbshi too, the first one.

1669
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:54,920
Speaker 1: Yeah no, no, no, the big one now the Jerry

1670
01:27:54,920 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 1: World is now at and T Stadium. Mins Abishi built that,

1671
01:27:58,439 --> 01:28:00,960
Speaker 1: but the Sony Jumbo try kind of became the.

1672
01:28:02,479 --> 01:28:05,439
Speaker 2: Generic name for these stadium scoreboards.

1673
01:28:05,479 --> 01:28:08,680
Speaker 1: The original one, the first that we've seen in these stadiums,

1674
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:11,160
Speaker 1: was a Dodger Stadium in nineteen eighty. And this gets

1675
01:28:11,160 --> 01:28:14,719
Speaker 1: into this incredible like sort of tapestry for the Dodgers,

1676
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:17,320
Speaker 1: right that they still have this identity that's in Brooklyn.

1677
01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:21,200
Speaker 2: The be still matters so much. And yet Dodger Stadium,

1678
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:25,000
Speaker 2: like you know it is, it is now iconic and

1679
01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:28,439
Speaker 2: and in fact you don't hear Ebitts Field the way

1680
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:30,759
Speaker 2: you used to. Like even now, I feel like Dodger

1681
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:34,800
Speaker 2: Stadium has somehow pivoted from being seen as just a

1682
01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:35,439
Speaker 2: modern thing.

1683
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:37,000
Speaker 1: Too. It hasn't itself.

1684
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:40,400
Speaker 2: It's not a landmark, all right, So forgive my dad

1685
01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:45,519
Speaker 2: pun here ja, but there are two important Brooklyn bridges

1686
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:51,639
Speaker 2: to la yeah really grown all right right, all right,

1687
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:54,519
Speaker 2: But we had there had to be this and if

1688
01:28:54,520 --> 01:28:58,280
Speaker 2: we didn't have them. And one is on the field

1689
01:28:58,280 --> 01:29:03,639
Speaker 2: and one is off the field. One is a wild

1690
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:06,679
Speaker 2: left hander who in some ways probably would have become

1691
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:09,800
Speaker 2: an icon and still is an icon in Brooklyn. And

1692
01:29:09,840 --> 01:29:12,880
Speaker 2: it's so funny to me how important this person is

1693
01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:16,000
Speaker 2: to Brooklyn natives, like Larry King back in the day

1694
01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:20,000
Speaker 2: when he never had success in Brooklyn, and that's Sandy Kofax.

1695
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:25,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he remains this iconic, is still with us

1696
01:29:25,439 --> 01:29:29,680
Speaker 1: and is just such a revered figure. So you know,

1697
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:32,600
Speaker 1: he's before my time as Heyday was in the nineteen sixties.

1698
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:36,639
Speaker 1: And but every time you would show up at Dodger

1699
01:29:36,720 --> 01:29:40,400
Speaker 1: Stadium for anything, just people would just fondow. The whole

1700
01:29:40,439 --> 01:29:43,000
Speaker 1: stadium went crazy, and you can tell Dad's pointing to

1701
01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:44,400
Speaker 1: their kids. You know.

1702
01:29:44,560 --> 01:29:46,320
Speaker 2: It's sort of like and it's the same thing the

1703
01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:48,720
Speaker 2: way Willie Mays and Hank Aaron were later in life too,

1704
01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:53,200
Speaker 2: because you're like they've touched history right right, They're You're like,

1705
01:29:53,240 --> 01:29:55,400
Speaker 2: wait a minute, you're you're the connection to Jackie and

1706
01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:58,479
Speaker 2: you're the connection of this you you know, it's it's

1707
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:02,000
Speaker 2: right there. So the other bridge would be the.

1708
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:04,439
Speaker 1: Voice of the Dodgers pull up a chair Vin Scully,

1709
01:30:04,560 --> 01:30:06,560
Speaker 1: who takes over for Red Barber.

1710
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:08,839
Speaker 2: While they're still in Brooklyn and.

1711
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:13,640
Speaker 1: Proceeds to become the voice of the Dodgers for generations

1712
01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:16,320
Speaker 1: up until he retires in twenty sixteen. Follow in the

1713
01:30:16,360 --> 01:30:20,680
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen season. And it's so important a bit of

1714
01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:24,320
Speaker 1: fortuitous timing that as the Dodgers come to La it's

1715
01:30:24,400 --> 01:30:28,800
Speaker 1: the late fifties, right after the invention of the transistor radio,

1716
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:32,760
Speaker 1: and so now radio is portable, easily portable, so you

1717
01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:35,200
Speaker 1: can listen to Vin Scully at the beach, you can

1718
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:37,599
Speaker 1: listen to him at the stadium.

1719
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:40,160
Speaker 2: Or it's more importantly, you can listen to him when

1720
01:30:40,160 --> 01:30:41,600
Speaker 2: you're stuck in traffic.

1721
01:30:43,320 --> 01:30:45,040
Speaker 1: As the car became a big part of it. But

1722
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:48,639
Speaker 1: the Dodgers fans really popularized listening to the game. That's

1723
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:50,720
Speaker 1: because they wanted the best of both worlds. You want

1724
01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:52,840
Speaker 1: to go to the game, but you don't want to

1725
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:54,680
Speaker 1: miss out on hearing Vin Scully. That's how much you

1726
01:30:54,760 --> 01:30:57,120
Speaker 1: meant to people, and that's how much authority that he brought,

1727
01:30:57,400 --> 01:31:00,880
Speaker 1: so he instantly legitimized the Dodgers. Also hope that they

1728
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:03,280
Speaker 1: were really good, they win the World series their second

1729
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:05,360
Speaker 1: year out there. I don't know if this was because

1730
01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:08,000
Speaker 1: cause or effect that you have to win in LA,

1731
01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:10,120
Speaker 1: but the Dodgers winning in their second year in LA.

1732
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:12,439
Speaker 2: That is a fascinating thing. What if the Dodgers don't

1733
01:31:12,479 --> 01:31:15,439
Speaker 2: win right away? What if they're the Mets right which

1734
01:31:15,479 --> 01:31:19,280
Speaker 2: has a decade of just laughable play until they become

1735
01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:22,280
Speaker 2: the miracle Mets. Right in that first decade.

1736
01:31:21,760 --> 01:31:24,000
Speaker 1: Well, it was such a big thing. They were the

1737
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:26,040
Speaker 1: only showing talent. Everyone talks about all you got to

1738
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:27,240
Speaker 1: compete with it. That matters.

1739
01:31:27,320 --> 01:31:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that matters. I mean, the Rams were there, but

1740
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:31,519
Speaker 2: they weren't. Look, we go back even in the sixties,

1741
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:32,679
Speaker 2: the NFL wasn't the NFL.

1742
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:36,160
Speaker 1: And then the Raider I'm sorry, the Lakers come out

1743
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:39,559
Speaker 1: and they moved there right after the Dodgers, right after

1744
01:31:39,640 --> 01:31:42,040
Speaker 1: the Dodgers. Right, so they're in the sixties. It was

1745
01:31:42,040 --> 01:31:44,160
Speaker 1: funny to talk about winning right away. The Raiders come

1746
01:31:44,280 --> 01:31:46,080
Speaker 1: in the mid eighties and they win the Super Bowl

1747
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:51,080
Speaker 1: right away, which helped and to this day quick that version. Yeah, right,

1748
01:31:51,200 --> 01:31:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, people still love the Raiders in LA. I

1749
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:55,720
Speaker 1: used to get asked all the time when I was

1750
01:31:55,760 --> 01:31:58,000
Speaker 1: the columnst at the LA times when the Raiders come

1751
01:31:58,000 --> 01:31:59,840
Speaker 1: over coming back even though they left.

1752
01:31:59,840 --> 01:32:02,639
Speaker 2: They don't get me started on that ridiculous LA football

1753
01:32:02,680 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 2: situation because I to this day, I think the two

1754
01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:11,760
Speaker 2: most popular teams in LA, only one of them's in LA, right,

1755
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:14,679
Speaker 2: the Rams, and the other one is now in Las Vegas. Yeah, right,

1756
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 2: And the Raiders being in Vegas actually has only amplified

1757
01:32:19,400 --> 01:32:21,560
Speaker 2: a little bit of that old of that old LA.

1758
01:32:21,760 --> 01:32:24,439
Speaker 2: But winning right away the Dodgers, if you think about it,

1759
01:32:24,439 --> 01:32:27,240
Speaker 2: it's not just they went right away in the sixties

1760
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:30,439
Speaker 2: and seventies. I mean, they're just constantly in contention.

1761
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:34,639
Speaker 1: And what's interesting is that they're winning and their popular.

1762
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:37,320
Speaker 2: They're pretty black lineup.

1763
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:40,080
Speaker 1: You know, this is the nineteen sixties. You know, certainly

1764
01:32:40,120 --> 01:32:43,280
Speaker 1: the attendance. But again those old World Series DVDs, I said,

1765
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:44,880
Speaker 1: you see some black people in the crowd at the

1766
01:32:44,920 --> 01:32:47,639
Speaker 1: coliseum and at Dodger Stadium when they're there. But you've

1767
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:52,680
Speaker 1: got Jim Gilliam, You've got Tommy Davis, You've got Willie Davis,

1768
01:32:53,080 --> 01:32:55,439
Speaker 1: and you have Morey Wills, who is another person that

1769
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:58,040
Speaker 1: puts the Dodgers at the forefront. Once again in this case,

1770
01:32:58,040 --> 01:33:02,000
Speaker 1: it's the kind of the innovation, basion of speed in

1771
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:05,000
Speaker 1: the stolen base. And I'm not going to say the reinvention.

1772
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:08,080
Speaker 1: I'd say because Tyk Hobb. You look back in the days,

1773
01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:10,040
Speaker 1: was still a lot of bases, but Kyle fell out

1774
01:33:10,040 --> 01:33:12,519
Speaker 1: of vogue. I will make a confession. Look, as a

1775
01:33:12,520 --> 01:33:14,200
Speaker 1: as a kid being a.

1776
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:17,160
Speaker 2: Dodger fan, you get you know, you gotta father brainwashes

1777
01:33:17,200 --> 01:33:19,280
Speaker 2: you and Dodgers and you learn all the sort of

1778
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:23,280
Speaker 2: mythologies and some of the myths are true, right Jackie

1779
01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:27,680
Speaker 2: Robinson stealing home and you know that it is like

1780
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:30,320
Speaker 2: it's almost the first on field story as a kid

1781
01:33:30,360 --> 01:33:32,600
Speaker 2: that I learned was about Jackie Robinson stealing home in

1782
01:33:32,600 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 2: the World Series, which to me is still the most famous.

1783
01:33:35,439 --> 01:33:38,160
Speaker 2: I would argue it's the most famous stolen basin in

1784
01:33:38,200 --> 01:33:39,000
Speaker 2: baseball history.

1785
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:42,080
Speaker 1: The only one that rivals it is Dave Roberts to

1786
01:33:42,200 --> 01:33:47,360
Speaker 1: steal against the Yankees that started former Dodger and now.

1787
01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:49,479
Speaker 2: That but in that moment, you didn't know that was

1788
01:33:49,520 --> 01:33:52,120
Speaker 2: a famous stolen base when you steal home in the

1789
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:55,120
Speaker 2: World Series, and the picture is Yogi Barrett tried to

1790
01:33:55,160 --> 01:33:57,240
Speaker 2: tag kind of tend to tag out.

1791
01:33:57,200 --> 01:33:59,920
Speaker 1: Jackie Robinson lumping around after he doesn't get the call right.

1792
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:04,400
Speaker 1: But but more, Wills doesn't have a singularly iconic zone

1793
01:34:04,439 --> 01:34:06,040
Speaker 1: based like that. But he's still one hundred and four

1794
01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:08,880
Speaker 1: bases in nineteen sixty two. When's the MVP. Yeah, I

1795
01:34:08,920 --> 01:34:10,240
Speaker 1: mean think about it. This is a guy.

1796
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:13,559
Speaker 2: We don't give MVPs to people that only steal bases very.

1797
01:34:13,439 --> 01:34:16,240
Speaker 1: Often, and you know, so it's kind of it's the

1798
01:34:16,240 --> 01:34:19,080
Speaker 1: same time Louis Aparicio and lou Rock, you know. And

1799
01:34:19,080 --> 01:34:20,920
Speaker 1: then of course I think it, well, this is the

1800
01:34:20,920 --> 01:34:21,960
Speaker 1: Ara Rickie Henderson.

1801
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:24,320
Speaker 2: This is the era of baseball when I mean I

1802
01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:26,240
Speaker 2: always love looking you know, when I was a kid,

1803
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:29,559
Speaker 2: and you know, being a Dodger fin they didn't win

1804
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:31,840
Speaker 2: until eighty one, and so they all they did was

1805
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:33,840
Speaker 2: lose World Series in the seventies and I'd have to

1806
01:34:34,040 --> 01:34:36,840
Speaker 2: look up those sixties World Series and you'd see, well.

1807
01:34:36,680 --> 01:34:37,679
Speaker 1: They were so low scoring.

1808
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:41,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Dodgers were basically speed pitching and defense.

1809
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:45,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Kofax, you know, not only obviously his greatness

1810
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:48,479
Speaker 1: on the field. Well, one last thing on Will's you know,

1811
01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:51,320
Speaker 1: they brought us would bring him back to talk about

1812
01:34:51,320 --> 01:34:53,439
Speaker 1: base stealing and have him in like spring training.

1813
01:34:53,520 --> 01:34:55,639
Speaker 2: So now that base stealing is back.

1814
01:34:55,720 --> 01:34:59,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but Kofax, I don't want to omit that

1815
01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:04,400
Speaker 1: fact that he was a leader in the baseball labor board, right,

1816
01:35:04,439 --> 01:35:07,400
Speaker 1: which really comes to the forefront in the nineteen seventies,

1817
01:35:07,400 --> 01:35:11,080
Speaker 1: and Kirk Flood and Marvin Miller, but you know Cofax

1818
01:35:11,200 --> 01:35:13,720
Speaker 1: and the partner Don Drysdale's the pitcher.

1819
01:35:13,439 --> 01:35:15,840
Speaker 2: They were going to hold out together, right yeah, yeah, Well.

1820
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:17,920
Speaker 1: I think there's seeking one hundred thousand dollars each, like

1821
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:21,320
Speaker 1: the astronomical sum of one hundred thousand dollars. But you

1822
01:35:21,320 --> 01:35:24,000
Speaker 1: know they they they said, hey, strengthen numbers and the

1823
01:35:24,040 --> 01:35:26,360
Speaker 1: two of us. What are the Dodgers without the two

1824
01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:28,640
Speaker 1: of us? So we'll give Copax credit there. And of

1825
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:34,160
Speaker 1: course you know the iconic moment, the conviction of not pitching.

1826
01:35:33,960 --> 01:35:37,960
Speaker 2: Those serious because of his religious beliefs and look for

1827
01:35:37,960 --> 01:35:42,280
Speaker 2: for for young Jewish kids. That like that was Cofax?

1828
01:35:42,439 --> 01:35:46,120
Speaker 2: Is Is this iicon wesk in some ways? Yeah, it is,

1829
01:35:46,160 --> 01:35:49,960
Speaker 2: And I don't I don't use the comparison because I

1830
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:50,640
Speaker 2: don't want it.

1831
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:52,120
Speaker 1: That's it's not the same.

1832
01:35:53,880 --> 01:35:57,000
Speaker 2: But it is the moment to have the person that

1833
01:35:57,320 --> 01:35:59,599
Speaker 2: it keeps you identity, right, yeah, there is. We all

1834
01:35:59,640 --> 01:36:02,959
Speaker 2: are certain for identity, right, and it is an important

1835
01:36:03,000 --> 01:36:05,400
Speaker 2: identity and it still is to this day to the

1836
01:36:05,479 --> 01:36:09,760
Speaker 2: Jewish community. I mean, Cofax is this he is you know,

1837
01:36:10,080 --> 01:36:13,439
Speaker 2: there's Moses and there's Sandy. Okay, you know, I mean,

1838
01:36:14,120 --> 01:36:16,040
Speaker 2: you know, and you could argue about everybody else in between,

1839
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:19,120
Speaker 2: but that's you know, there you go. J Yeah, the

1840
01:36:19,479 --> 01:36:21,760
Speaker 2: Jewish you know, we're only going to put Moses in

1841
01:36:21,800 --> 01:36:23,560
Speaker 2: Sandy on there. Everybody else is going to have to

1842
01:36:23,560 --> 01:36:27,280
Speaker 2: get out of the way. But that's but you know,

1843
01:36:27,360 --> 01:36:31,800
Speaker 2: this is it is they they really do. They win

1844
01:36:32,000 --> 01:36:34,639
Speaker 2: two World Series in the sixties, they get to three

1845
01:36:34,920 --> 01:36:38,200
Speaker 2: in the seventies, and you know, the seventies really, you know,

1846
01:36:38,240 --> 01:36:42,080
Speaker 2: they become I feel like the reputation of the Dodgers

1847
01:36:42,200 --> 01:36:45,439
Speaker 2: was they were always the great pitching team. And I

1848
01:36:45,479 --> 01:36:47,720
Speaker 2: guess you have to say that, do you do? You

1849
01:36:47,720 --> 01:36:51,280
Speaker 2: start with Nukem, right, then you get Cofax and Drysdale.

1850
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:54,360
Speaker 2: Then it comes up to the first winner, right, first

1851
01:36:54,360 --> 01:36:56,519
Speaker 2: ever for the Dodgers, right, So you get Nukem. Be

1852
01:36:56,520 --> 01:37:01,080
Speaker 2: does that if Kofax and Drysdale goes right into Don Sutton,

1853
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:03,200
Speaker 2: Bob welps Y.

1854
01:37:03,760 --> 01:37:06,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But the seventies really become known for that

1855
01:37:07,120 --> 01:37:11,720
Speaker 1: iconic field. Yes, Steve Garvey, Davy Lows, Bill Russell is

1856
01:37:11,800 --> 01:37:14,080
Speaker 1: short Ron say at third base. And by the way,

1857
01:37:14,280 --> 01:37:17,799
Speaker 1: maybe the greatest nickname in baseball, there's two. I love nicknames.

1858
01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:20,680
Speaker 2: But the Penguin, I mean, that's it's such a great name.

1859
01:37:20,680 --> 01:37:23,320
Speaker 2: But my only other favorite one was Mike Hargrove. He

1860
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:26,320
Speaker 2: had the nickname the human reign Delay because of how

1861
01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:28,840
Speaker 2: often he took him before he got ready for it

1862
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:31,839
Speaker 2: at that that that might be my favorite. But Penguin's

1863
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:32,320
Speaker 2: pretty close.

1864
01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:36,599
Speaker 1: Penguin is pretty cool. But you know, they come up

1865
01:37:36,640 --> 01:37:39,640
Speaker 1: and they just anchor that team wherever, you know, and

1866
01:37:40,000 --> 01:37:43,320
Speaker 1: the stability and also at a time when baseball is

1867
01:37:43,360 --> 01:37:44,480
Speaker 1: starting to become.

1868
01:37:44,360 --> 01:37:46,559
Speaker 2: Unstable with the free agency agency, you've.

1869
01:37:46,400 --> 01:37:49,639
Speaker 1: Got Rady Jackson going from Oakland to Baltimore to the Yankees,

1870
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:53,920
Speaker 1: and the Dodgers just become this pillar of stability throughout

1871
01:37:53,920 --> 01:37:56,599
Speaker 1: the seventies year in year out gaming games.

1872
01:37:56,600 --> 01:37:58,800
Speaker 2: They get a very by the way, miss speaking of

1873
01:37:58,840 --> 01:38:01,519
Speaker 2: barrier breakers, the Dodgers of the first ever relief pitcher

1874
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:04,799
Speaker 2: when I signed out in seventy four with Mike Marshall.

1875
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:08,880
Speaker 1: Wow, so you know, and then they goes back to

1876
01:38:08,920 --> 01:38:11,240
Speaker 1: back World Series against Yankees, And that's kind of where

1877
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:15,040
Speaker 1: my interest in baseball fandom begins is so we're actually

1878
01:38:15,080 --> 01:38:21,360
Speaker 1: so I was brought I seventy seven, I.

1879
01:38:19,400 --> 01:38:22,160
Speaker 2: I was five, or when Reggie Jackson cheated in the

1880
01:38:22,160 --> 01:38:25,040
Speaker 2: World I mean, when Reggie Jackson duck the tag in

1881
01:38:25,080 --> 01:38:28,120
Speaker 2: the World Series. But I pretend I remember the moment myself.

1882
01:38:28,120 --> 01:38:31,080
Speaker 2: But what I really remember was my father yelling at

1883
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:31,439
Speaker 2: the TV.

1884
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:33,280
Speaker 1: Now he's out.

1885
01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:37,120
Speaker 2: When Reggie Jackson gets out of the way of that tag.

1886
01:38:37,320 --> 01:38:40,840
Speaker 1: I think it's in game. Is a game I can't Yeah, I.

1887
01:38:40,760 --> 01:38:41,680
Speaker 2: Don't remember watching it.

1888
01:38:41,720 --> 01:38:43,640
Speaker 1: You know, you have the iconic but I remember is

1889
01:38:43,640 --> 01:38:47,160
Speaker 1: my dad yelling about it. The three swings, three at bads,

1890
01:38:47,200 --> 01:38:51,559
Speaker 1: three homers with Welch checking them out right, you know.

1891
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:55,559
Speaker 1: So you have these moments. I'm kind of vaguely aware

1892
01:38:55,560 --> 01:38:59,120
Speaker 1: of them. I'm just coming into my sports awareness sports

1893
01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:02,639
Speaker 1: fandom into like one game with the boys Club Dodgers

1894
01:39:02,720 --> 01:39:05,040
Speaker 1: dat we said at like the very top of the stadium.

1895
01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:09,439
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, as I'm becoming aware of what

1896
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:13,080
Speaker 1: major League Baseball is, it's simultaneous with Dyaks and the Dodgers,

1897
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:15,519
Speaker 1: you know, And so you're just associating the Dodgers with

1898
01:39:15,600 --> 01:39:18,520
Speaker 1: being this great team, and of course it's our introduction

1899
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:20,800
Speaker 1: in the national stage. It's time of dissorder. There's that

1900
01:39:21,000 --> 01:39:24,000
Speaker 1: great clip of him going out and just you know,

1901
01:39:24,960 --> 01:39:26,800
Speaker 1: half of its bleep, like you makes the visits to

1902
01:39:26,840 --> 01:39:29,920
Speaker 1: the mound in that world series and you can still

1903
01:39:29,960 --> 01:39:32,920
Speaker 1: find it somewhere on YouTube probably where it's just everything's.

1904
01:39:32,560 --> 01:39:33,120
Speaker 2: Bleep, bleep, bleep.

1905
01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:33,320
Speaker 1: Please.

1906
01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:37,680
Speaker 2: The biggest downside of now doing everything with replay and

1907
01:39:37,680 --> 01:39:41,360
Speaker 2: we're going to automate balls and strikes is Timulus sort

1908
01:39:41,400 --> 01:39:45,760
Speaker 2: of Earl Weaver, the great like angry manager moments, like

1909
01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:49,720
Speaker 2: we're just not going to have them anymore. We just

1910
01:39:49,840 --> 01:39:52,200
Speaker 2: you just won't get a character like a Sorder never again.

1911
01:39:52,479 --> 01:39:55,080
Speaker 1: Right. I mean, it's so it's so top down now, right,

1912
01:39:55,240 --> 01:39:58,240
Speaker 1: like everything's coming down where you know that you've got

1913
01:39:58,320 --> 01:40:00,160
Speaker 1: the bull paying game, this game and so you know,

1914
01:40:00,760 --> 01:40:02,439
Speaker 1: pitch counts, you know all this stuff is do the.

1915
01:40:02,479 --> 01:40:04,479
Speaker 2: Managers run the teams as much as they used to

1916
01:40:04,520 --> 01:40:06,240
Speaker 2: write or gms control the lineup cards?

1917
01:40:06,520 --> 01:40:10,760
Speaker 1: And you know, certainly you know, Lasorda just really popularized

1918
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:14,080
Speaker 1: Dodger Blue and have we have like Frank Sinatra come

1919
01:40:14,160 --> 01:40:15,920
Speaker 1: and hanging out in the clubhouse with the dog.

1920
01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:17,679
Speaker 2: Just gets back to something else you said. You know here,

1921
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:21,400
Speaker 2: here's so free agency comes to baseball. Everybody's moving around.

1922
01:40:22,040 --> 01:40:26,599
Speaker 2: The Dodgers with a stable team. Here's Tommy Lasorda when

1923
01:40:26,600 --> 01:40:29,639
Speaker 2: he becomes manager in seventy seven. He actually takes over

1924
01:40:29,760 --> 01:40:32,439
Speaker 2: a couple of games in seventy six. He'd been with

1925
01:40:32,479 --> 01:40:36,880
Speaker 2: the organization as a player. My favorite nugget about him

1926
01:40:36,880 --> 01:40:39,080
Speaker 2: as he was he got front. He did not make

1927
01:40:39,080 --> 01:40:42,400
Speaker 2: the World Series roster at fifty five because the Dodgers

1928
01:40:42,400 --> 01:40:45,000
Speaker 2: decided this young left handed pitcher ought to be on

1929
01:40:45,120 --> 01:40:47,519
Speaker 2: the roster just in case they needed him in Sandy Gobac.

1930
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:50,240
Speaker 2: So at least Losorta has been quoted as saying, it

1931
01:40:50,320 --> 01:40:52,680
Speaker 2: took the greatest left handed pitcher of all time to

1932
01:40:52,720 --> 01:40:54,519
Speaker 2: get me off of a World Series roster. But he

1933
01:40:54,560 --> 01:40:57,639
Speaker 2: then he doesn't make it as a pitcher, and he

1934
01:40:57,800 --> 01:40:59,960
Speaker 2: just works his way up. He pretty much has ever

1935
01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:03,639
Speaker 2: reposition you could have as a coach before he finally

1936
01:41:03,720 --> 01:41:04,479
Speaker 2: becomes manager.

1937
01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:07,639
Speaker 1: There's a story that he used a rifle to defend

1938
01:41:07,640 --> 01:41:12,320
Speaker 1: his teammates in Cuba during the revolution. You know, whether

1939
01:41:12,360 --> 01:41:15,360
Speaker 1: it's true or not, I took it to check. You know,

1940
01:41:15,479 --> 01:41:18,479
Speaker 1: his encounters with like pidel Castro all this stuff. So

1941
01:41:20,920 --> 01:41:23,120
Speaker 1: it's funny for a decade in which they didn't win

1942
01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:26,120
Speaker 1: the World Series. Yeah, you really think of the Dog

1943
01:41:26,240 --> 01:41:28,320
Speaker 1: of the seventies as a high point for the Dodgers.

1944
01:41:28,360 --> 01:41:30,920
Speaker 2: Well, and you know, this is a stat that nobody

1945
01:41:30,920 --> 01:41:34,559
Speaker 2: cares about now because the home run has changed so much.

1946
01:41:34,640 --> 01:41:37,960
Speaker 2: But I believe it's the seventy eight Dodgers that is

1947
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:40,759
Speaker 2: the first ever team to have four different four guys

1948
01:41:40,800 --> 01:41:43,800
Speaker 2: on the same team hit thirty or one hold runs. Yeah,

1949
01:41:44,360 --> 01:41:48,160
Speaker 2: I think the each thirty that season. The Garby hit thirty,

1950
01:41:48,439 --> 01:41:51,200
Speaker 2: Baker hit thirty at the Smith, Reggie Smith hits thirty.

1951
01:41:51,280 --> 01:41:55,960
Speaker 1: And yeah, so there was a photo that they took.

1952
01:41:56,080 --> 01:42:00,680
Speaker 1: They told me the story actually where they posed for

1953
01:42:01,160 --> 01:42:03,760
Speaker 1: a photo with the scoreboard in the back that said

1954
01:42:03,840 --> 01:42:06,240
Speaker 1: like thirty right to all the four members of the

1955
01:42:06,280 --> 01:42:08,960
Speaker 1: team that hit thirty. But they actually did it before

1956
01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:10,640
Speaker 1: the final guy. I don't know if the Baker, so

1957
01:42:10,840 --> 01:42:13,639
Speaker 1: someone still had that twenty hit the thirty and they

1958
01:42:13,680 --> 01:42:16,439
Speaker 1: go on the road to the Astrodome, but they're not

1959
01:42:16,479 --> 01:42:18,880
Speaker 1: an easy place. They don't run back then. But but

1960
01:42:19,640 --> 01:42:21,680
Speaker 1: whoever it was that needed the thirty hit, it there,

1961
01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:23,880
Speaker 1: but they actually took the photos pretty I have a

1962
01:42:24,320 --> 01:42:25,800
Speaker 1: I have a bobblehead that they made out of it.

1963
01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:27,720
Speaker 1: As wow, it's a pretty famous photo at out of

1964
01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:30,160
Speaker 1: the stadium. But say told me that, yeah, we actually

1965
01:42:30,200 --> 01:42:32,120
Speaker 1: took it before all of us hit the thirty on

1966
01:42:32,360 --> 01:42:34,720
Speaker 1: Mons because this is their last home stand before they

1967
01:42:34,760 --> 01:42:35,320
Speaker 1: went on the road.

1968
01:42:35,680 --> 01:42:40,439
Speaker 2: So these are this is my teams. These are the

1969
01:42:40,479 --> 01:42:42,439
Speaker 2: teams that I grew up with. Steve Garvey was the

1970
01:42:42,560 --> 01:42:48,040
Speaker 2: guy and before we before Steve Garvey's personal life became public,

1971
01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:51,080
Speaker 2: let's just say, my mom and dad loved that I

1972
01:42:51,120 --> 01:42:54,480
Speaker 2: was looking up Steve Garvey was mister clean.

1973
01:42:54,360 --> 01:42:56,439
Speaker 1: Like changes Jersey if you got any dirt, right, And.

1974
01:42:56,400 --> 01:42:58,720
Speaker 2: He was mister Dodger. And you know, there was the

1975
01:42:58,760 --> 01:43:00,920
Speaker 2: whole His father drove the hem bust and he was

1976
01:43:00,920 --> 01:43:03,280
Speaker 2: a kid. I mean, that was my point, the whole

1977
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:08,479
Speaker 2: the Dodgers were. You were a Dodger man, You were

1978
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:11,600
Speaker 2: a Dodger for life, right Garvey as a kid, he

1979
01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:14,479
Speaker 2: was groomed to be a Dodger, right, Lasorda all the

1980
01:43:14,479 --> 01:43:17,719
Speaker 2: way through. And so it was always it was actually

1981
01:43:17,720 --> 01:43:20,080
Speaker 2: always unsettling as a Dodger fan when some outsider would

1982
01:43:20,080 --> 01:43:21,880
Speaker 2: come in what are they doing signing a free agent?

1983
01:43:21,920 --> 01:43:23,000
Speaker 1: Who is this ken Lan Drew?

1984
01:43:23,240 --> 01:43:25,400
Speaker 2: You know type of thing, because the Dodgers always found

1985
01:43:25,400 --> 01:43:26,559
Speaker 2: people in their farm system.

1986
01:43:27,000 --> 01:43:27,200
Speaker 1: You know.

1987
01:43:27,280 --> 01:43:30,320
Speaker 2: That's why it is weird to see even today's Dodgers,

1988
01:43:30,360 --> 01:43:33,519
Speaker 2: which are made up of players that were brought up

1989
01:43:33,520 --> 01:43:34,400
Speaker 2: from other teams.

1990
01:43:34,200 --> 01:43:36,240
Speaker 1: Right, you know, but even by the eighty eight World Series,

1991
01:43:36,280 --> 01:43:38,880
Speaker 1: I mean Kurt Gibson, yeah, you know, you know, the

1992
01:43:38,960 --> 01:43:42,120
Speaker 1: MVP of the league, and you know, the pivotal moment

1993
01:43:42,120 --> 01:43:45,360
Speaker 1: in the World Series that year, So they had already changed.

1994
01:43:45,400 --> 01:43:47,560
Speaker 1: But like again, the seventies Dodgers, for a team that

1995
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:50,240
Speaker 1: didn't win a World Series, they feel like wanted a franchise,

1996
01:43:50,320 --> 01:43:52,479
Speaker 1: Like I think of them more than the A's, you know,

1997
01:43:52,520 --> 01:43:53,479
Speaker 1: maybe because I grew.

1998
01:43:53,400 --> 01:43:56,000
Speaker 2: Up the A's win three, yeah, yeah, but the big

1999
01:43:56,000 --> 01:43:59,200
Speaker 2: Red Machine is in three in a row and win two, right.

2000
01:43:59,120 --> 01:44:01,240
Speaker 1: You know, Red Sox in the World sty sego back,

2001
01:44:01,280 --> 01:44:03,080
Speaker 1: he's went back to back, go to three, And I

2002
01:44:03,120 --> 01:44:05,600
Speaker 1: feel like the Dodgers belonged in the conversation with all

2003
01:44:05,600 --> 01:44:07,840
Speaker 1: of them, even though they didn't win. You know, that's

2004
01:44:07,840 --> 01:44:08,519
Speaker 1: how iconic.

2005
01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:11,080
Speaker 2: Well, I would argue they got their seventies World Series

2006
01:44:11,080 --> 01:44:14,280
Speaker 2: in eighty one. Yeah, right, because it's really that team

2007
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:15,920
Speaker 2: in the seventies.

2008
01:44:15,479 --> 01:44:20,280
Speaker 1: With a notable edition, one notable edition, Chuck. On September

2009
01:44:20,320 --> 01:44:23,080
Speaker 1: twenty fourth, nineteen eighty my friend and his family took

2010
01:44:23,120 --> 01:44:25,280
Speaker 1: me to a game Red Dodger Stadium. We sat out

2011
01:44:25,280 --> 01:44:28,200
Speaker 1: in the leftfield pavilion. They don't call him the bleachers,

2012
01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:33,200
Speaker 1: the billions, he said, in the pavilion below the diamond vision.

2013
01:44:33,240 --> 01:44:36,600
Speaker 1: I had to turn around to see it. And I

2014
01:44:36,680 --> 01:44:40,719
Speaker 1: remember a player entered the game. There's a September caller

2015
01:44:41,200 --> 01:44:44,000
Speaker 1: put you by the name of Fernando Valenz Whaler. It

2016
01:44:44,120 --> 01:44:46,800
Speaker 1: was nineteen years old. He's making his fourth appearance and

2017
01:44:46,840 --> 01:44:50,920
Speaker 1: he'd already generated some buns. I remember Bannando Valenz Whale

2018
01:44:50,960 --> 01:44:51,200
Speaker 1: was chic.

2019
01:44:51,360 --> 01:44:54,280
Speaker 2: Well, Mexican baseball player in LA. Yeah, there hadn't been

2020
01:44:54,320 --> 01:44:58,320
Speaker 2: a lot of Mexican success stories in Major League Baseball, No, right,

2021
01:44:58,360 --> 01:44:59,760
Speaker 2: And to have this happen.

2022
01:44:59,479 --> 01:45:04,480
Speaker 1: And you know, became a you know, full fledged phenomenon

2023
01:45:04,520 --> 01:45:07,599
Speaker 1: the next year. But you know, this guy pitches one

2024
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:09,519
Speaker 1: or two thirds inning reliefs or the no hits, no

2025
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:11,560
Speaker 1: runs when walked too strikeouts.

2026
01:45:12,000 --> 01:45:14,519
Speaker 2: Part of the seventeen plus innings he pitched that month.

2027
01:45:14,360 --> 01:45:17,160
Speaker 1: Without allowing an earned run, so we got a little

2028
01:45:17,200 --> 01:45:20,280
Speaker 1: taste of what to come. Uh. The other memory thing

2029
01:45:20,280 --> 01:45:23,679
Speaker 1: that night was Manny Mota, forty two years old, who

2030
01:45:23,720 --> 01:45:26,280
Speaker 1: had already retired, and he kind of comes out of

2031
01:45:26,320 --> 01:45:29,160
Speaker 1: he was a coach and then it kind of comes

2032
01:45:29,200 --> 01:45:30,760
Speaker 1: back in as a pinch hitter, one of the all

2033
01:45:30,800 --> 01:45:34,280
Speaker 1: time great pinch hitters. He had the game winning RBI

2034
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:36,200
Speaker 1: as a pinch hitter in the bottom of the twelfth.

2035
01:45:36,200 --> 01:45:37,200
Speaker 2: The Dodgers beat the.

2036
01:45:37,120 --> 01:45:44,439
Speaker 1: Giants five to four, So Mota ties you into the Dominican.

2037
01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:47,120
Speaker 2: Republic aspect of the Dodgers. They were one of the

2038
01:45:47,120 --> 01:45:49,960
Speaker 2: first ones to ye at a camp set up there.

2039
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:53,080
Speaker 1: You know, they had some great Dominicans. Pedro Guerrero came

2040
01:45:53,120 --> 01:45:56,320
Speaker 1: up at the end of the nineteen seventies. Mariona Duncan,

2041
01:45:56,360 --> 01:46:00,320
Speaker 1: Alejandro Pena were some some early Dodgers from the Dominican.

2042
01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:02,839
Speaker 2: In They had this young picture in the early nineties

2043
01:46:03,160 --> 01:46:05,920
Speaker 2: named Pedro Martinez. Yeah, too bad, that didn't work about him.

2044
01:46:05,960 --> 01:46:08,479
Speaker 2: They liked his older brother at the time. They kept

2045
01:46:08,520 --> 01:46:10,880
Speaker 2: the older brother who was a pretty good picture and

2046
01:46:11,040 --> 01:46:13,120
Speaker 2: get other than Pedro at the time, but it was

2047
01:46:13,160 --> 01:46:15,200
Speaker 2: at the top. Yeah, yeah, that that is one of

2048
01:46:15,200 --> 01:46:17,160
Speaker 2: those paidful at least, and Dad's got the line on

2049
01:46:17,200 --> 01:46:21,480
Speaker 2: the shields so far. Yeah, that the pay Pedro Martinez

2050
01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:23,639
Speaker 2: is one of the more painful ones. But look, Fernando,

2051
01:46:24,280 --> 01:46:28,360
Speaker 2: Fernando was to say it was a phenomenon as an understatement,

2052
01:46:28,400 --> 01:46:31,040
Speaker 2: it really, and it took the this was look, I'm

2053
01:46:31,080 --> 01:46:34,000
Speaker 2: in Miami, obviously, I'm a I'm a Dodger fan. As

2054
01:46:34,000 --> 01:46:38,080
Speaker 2: a kid, we subscribed to both the morning and afternoon papers.

2055
01:46:38,080 --> 01:46:40,120
Speaker 2: And you know why we subscribed to the afternoon paper

2056
01:46:40,400 --> 01:46:42,160
Speaker 2: for the West Coast box score. It was the only

2057
01:46:42,200 --> 01:46:44,720
Speaker 2: way you could get a Dodger box score was was

2058
01:46:44,720 --> 01:46:46,320
Speaker 2: for that. But Fernando was everyone.

2059
01:46:46,520 --> 01:46:47,360
Speaker 1: So you know.

2060
01:46:47,400 --> 01:46:50,600
Speaker 2: Another picture dot a stadium, and especially.

2061
01:46:50,320 --> 01:46:52,479
Speaker 1: In the eighties was guy named Mike Brido and you'd

2062
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:54,160
Speaker 1: see him, you watch the game, sit the guy with

2063
01:46:54,240 --> 01:46:58,200
Speaker 1: the door on my head and the radar gun and

2064
01:46:58,240 --> 01:47:01,280
Speaker 1: he'd be he was iconic. Yeah, yeah, unlit cigar in

2065
01:47:01,280 --> 01:47:05,280
Speaker 1: his mouth. So he was a guy in nineteen seventy eight,

2066
01:47:05,320 --> 01:47:07,280
Speaker 1: he was scouting in Mexico. He's down there to see

2067
01:47:07,320 --> 01:47:09,960
Speaker 1: a shortstop and in the fifth inning of reliever comes

2068
01:47:09,960 --> 01:47:13,400
Speaker 1: in the pitch and it was Fernando Venezuela, and in

2069
01:47:13,479 --> 01:47:16,000
Speaker 1: the scouting report from nineteen seventy nine, Brita wrote he

2070
01:47:16,080 --> 01:47:19,320
Speaker 1: called Fernando a good major league prospect, strong, left handed

2071
01:47:19,360 --> 01:47:22,920
Speaker 1: with a lot of toois. Fernando's a guy from a

2072
01:47:22,960 --> 01:47:28,280
Speaker 1: farming town of a few hundred people in Mexico, Etchiwaquia, Mexico,

2073
01:47:28,439 --> 01:47:31,839
Speaker 1: the youngest of twelve children. The daughters bought his contract

2074
01:47:31,880 --> 01:47:35,680
Speaker 1: for one hundred and twenty thousand dollars. Another picture in

2075
01:47:35,720 --> 01:47:37,960
Speaker 1: that game in September twenty four to nineteen eighty was

2076
01:47:38,000 --> 01:47:41,920
Speaker 1: a guy named Bobby Kristiobabo Christillo as they called him,

2077
01:47:42,120 --> 01:47:45,040
Speaker 1: and in the minor leagues he taught Fernando the screwball,

2078
01:47:46,240 --> 01:47:49,080
Speaker 1: which became his go to signature pitch.

2079
01:47:49,200 --> 01:47:51,920
Speaker 2: Well, there was two things about Fernando and it's what

2080
01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:56,040
Speaker 2: it actually ties in. I remember it was this idea

2081
01:47:56,040 --> 01:47:57,920
Speaker 2: of who was he looking at before he would touch

2082
01:47:58,000 --> 01:47:58,320
Speaker 2: the ball.

2083
01:47:58,880 --> 01:48:00,400
Speaker 1: You'd see these eyes and it.

2084
01:48:00,479 --> 01:48:03,960
Speaker 2: Was like and and it almost made it fitting when

2085
01:48:04,000 --> 01:48:07,240
Speaker 2: they got the tornado from Japan and Nomo, who also

2086
01:48:07,280 --> 01:48:08,920
Speaker 2: had the same thing, You're like, how is it that

2087
01:48:08,960 --> 01:48:10,920
Speaker 2: if you don't look at the batter you can somehow

2088
01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:11,519
Speaker 2: watch better.

2089
01:48:12,479 --> 01:48:15,519
Speaker 1: So the last time into that that late season game

2090
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:17,519
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty that went to the starting pitcher that

2091
01:48:17,600 --> 01:48:21,680
Speaker 1: night was with Jerry Rook's great Dodger pitcher. He was

2092
01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:24,040
Speaker 1: scheduled to be the opening day starter in nineteen eighty one,

2093
01:48:24,920 --> 01:48:28,040
Speaker 1: but he pulls a calf muscle while running, you know,

2094
01:48:28,120 --> 01:48:31,960
Speaker 1: to get in shape before the season, and Tom Lasorda

2095
01:48:32,040 --> 01:48:35,480
Speaker 1: decides to go with Fernando and he throws a shutout,

2096
01:48:35,600 --> 01:48:40,120
Speaker 1: complete game the next game, nine innings, one run. The

2097
01:48:40,160 --> 01:48:43,280
Speaker 1: next game, complete game, shutout, the game after that, complete game, shutout,

2098
01:48:43,400 --> 01:48:49,040
Speaker 1: same thing the next game, and so Fernando Mania is born.

2099
01:48:49,080 --> 01:48:51,040
Speaker 1: He winds up being the Rookie of the Year and

2100
01:48:51,080 --> 01:48:53,639
Speaker 1: the sly young winner, leads the league and complete Gamebody's

2101
01:48:53,680 --> 01:48:54,320
Speaker 1: ever done that again.

2102
01:48:54,560 --> 01:48:57,800
Speaker 2: I don't know if I doubt that happens again because

2103
01:48:57,800 --> 01:49:00,519
Speaker 2: of the way again you go back to how rookie

2104
01:49:00,560 --> 01:49:05,120
Speaker 2: pitchers are treated. Trust me as now a transplant Nationals fan,

2105
01:49:05,360 --> 01:49:09,200
Speaker 2: and the Steven Straussburg debacle that I still consider a debacle,

2106
01:49:09,640 --> 01:49:13,840
Speaker 2: you know who was probably not since Fernando had a

2107
01:49:14,280 --> 01:49:16,760
Speaker 2: you know that people were so anxious to see and

2108
01:49:16,800 --> 01:49:19,719
Speaker 2: they shut him down. So we'll never see a Rookie

2109
01:49:19,760 --> 01:49:20,680
Speaker 2: of the Year scient.

2110
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:23,960
Speaker 1: And you could argue that maybe it kept him from

2111
01:49:24,160 --> 01:49:27,160
Speaker 1: the sustained greatness, right, I mean, the way they really

2112
01:49:27,280 --> 01:49:27,680
Speaker 1: use it.

2113
01:49:27,680 --> 01:49:30,320
Speaker 2: It is, but I just want to I want to

2114
01:49:30,360 --> 01:49:33,599
Speaker 2: just just to remind people how baseball was so different

2115
01:49:33,640 --> 01:49:36,559
Speaker 2: even in the eighties. So you know, I have a

2116
01:49:37,479 --> 01:49:41,880
Speaker 2: it is a real, it is a real, it sticks

2117
01:49:41,880 --> 01:49:43,960
Speaker 2: in mind, whatever you want to call it. That Fernando's

2118
01:49:43,960 --> 01:49:45,640
Speaker 2: out in the Hall of Fame, and it really is

2119
01:49:45,640 --> 01:49:47,519
Speaker 2: a bummer. He will get in the Hall of Fame,

2120
01:49:47,600 --> 01:49:50,679
Speaker 2: either as an announcer or as a player both. I'm

2121
01:49:50,680 --> 01:49:53,840
Speaker 2: sorry it's going to be posthumously that we don't get

2122
01:49:53,880 --> 01:49:57,200
Speaker 2: to have that. He doesn't get to to have this moment.

2123
01:49:57,680 --> 01:49:59,840
Speaker 2: But when you think about what he did in his

2124
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:01,960
Speaker 2: seven years. So, first of all, so he leads the

2125
01:50:02,000 --> 01:50:03,879
Speaker 2: league in complete games in eighty one with eleven.

2126
01:50:04,479 --> 01:50:05,240
Speaker 1: In eighty two, he.

2127
01:50:05,280 --> 01:50:08,439
Speaker 2: Is eighteen complete games. That didn't lead the league by

2128
01:50:08,479 --> 01:50:12,360
Speaker 2: the way. Okay, he had nine and eighty three complete games.

2129
01:50:12,400 --> 01:50:15,120
Speaker 2: Twelve and eighty four complete games, mind you, eighty five,

2130
01:50:15,240 --> 01:50:17,679
Speaker 2: fourteen and eighty six, he is twenty complete games.

2131
01:50:17,680 --> 01:50:17,960
Speaker 1: Wow.

2132
01:50:18,120 --> 01:50:21,880
Speaker 2: In eighty seven he is twelve complete games. Okay, Now

2133
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:26,160
Speaker 2: let me tell you about justin Verlander. Okay, who's you know, sustained.

2134
01:50:26,160 --> 01:50:29,559
Speaker 2: You know, the most complete games he's ever had in

2135
01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:33,840
Speaker 2: a season was in twenty twelve and it was six. Okay,

2136
01:50:33,880 --> 01:50:39,080
Speaker 2: So it's just we've just entirely changed. And a theory

2137
01:50:39,120 --> 01:50:43,520
Speaker 2: I've always had on if if Fernando is if Fernando

2138
01:50:43,640 --> 01:50:48,040
Speaker 2: is protected the way we protect pitchers today. You know,

2139
01:50:48,240 --> 01:50:51,400
Speaker 2: did he do fifteen years in eight is sort of

2140
01:50:51,439 --> 01:50:53,120
Speaker 2: the you know, it's not quite that when you look

2141
01:50:53,120 --> 01:50:57,280
Speaker 2: at any's pitched. There's more innings pitched, you know, but

2142
01:50:57,479 --> 01:51:01,040
Speaker 2: his seven years, that's seven years. It's not quite Sandy,

2143
01:51:01,960 --> 01:51:05,360
Speaker 2: but it's pretty it's pretty impressive, and if you extrapolated

2144
01:51:05,360 --> 01:51:07,800
Speaker 2: it over a twelve or thirteen year career probably.

2145
01:51:07,479 --> 01:51:11,719
Speaker 1: Would have been just as psychonics. So the other significant numbers,

2146
01:51:11,800 --> 01:51:14,320
Speaker 1: in addition to the complete games and the strikeouts and everything,

2147
01:51:14,680 --> 01:51:18,080
Speaker 1: the attendance. You look at Dodger state, forty six thousand fans,

2148
01:51:18,120 --> 01:51:21,559
Speaker 1: forty nine thousand fans, fifty three thousand fans when he

2149
01:51:21,680 --> 01:51:24,720
Speaker 1: pitched fifty to sixty percent of the TVs in use

2150
01:51:24,760 --> 01:51:27,439
Speaker 1: in LA, the share is a call or lots of

2151
01:51:27,479 --> 01:51:30,519
Speaker 1: the Dodgers. That was the type of impact zone. But

2152
01:51:30,720 --> 01:51:33,720
Speaker 1: also like they're making songs about him. In La. There

2153
01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:36,599
Speaker 1: was a radio a pair of radio guys in LA

2154
01:51:36,680 --> 01:51:39,519
Speaker 1: morning show. They came up with proposal. They wanted to

2155
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:42,439
Speaker 1: rename the San Fraanana San Fernando Valley the San Fernando

2156
01:51:42,520 --> 01:51:44,880
Speaker 1: Valley ands Whala, Yeah, Like that's how popular it was,

2157
01:51:45,240 --> 01:51:47,240
Speaker 1: and it's just a cultural earthquake.

2158
01:51:47,320 --> 01:51:49,479
Speaker 2: Latino fans returned unmost to shop.

2159
01:51:49,720 --> 01:51:50,880
Speaker 1: I believe, And.

2160
01:51:51,080 --> 01:51:52,920
Speaker 2: You know, this is another one of those I will

2161
01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:55,719
Speaker 2: confess to the two good to check because I couldn't

2162
01:51:55,760 --> 01:51:58,400
Speaker 2: find I couldn't verify this, but I believe. I remember

2163
01:51:58,400 --> 01:52:01,479
Speaker 2: reading this years ago that the Dodgers made more money

2164
01:52:01,479 --> 01:52:04,240
Speaker 2: on their Spanish language media rights in the eighties because

2165
01:52:04,280 --> 01:52:07,320
Speaker 2: of Fernando then like the Minnesota Twins did for all

2166
01:52:07,360 --> 01:52:11,200
Speaker 2: their TV right in Minnesota. That that's how valuable the

2167
01:52:11,280 --> 01:52:14,519
Speaker 2: Spanish language TV rights. And it just added, you know,

2168
01:52:14,680 --> 01:52:17,839
Speaker 2: we're sort of when does a franchise become a dynasty?

2169
01:52:17,960 --> 01:52:18,080
Speaker 1: Right?

2170
01:52:18,120 --> 01:52:20,400
Speaker 2: And in many ways this is the exercise we want

2171
01:52:20,439 --> 01:52:21,320
Speaker 2: to try to get at.

2172
01:52:21,960 --> 01:52:22,679
Speaker 1: For the Dodgers.

2173
01:52:22,680 --> 01:52:25,479
Speaker 2: The dynasty does seem to begin in La even though

2174
01:52:25,520 --> 01:52:28,400
Speaker 2: it was this is a team born in Brooklyn. It's

2175
01:52:28,400 --> 01:52:30,479
Speaker 2: sort of you see that it begins in LA and

2176
01:52:30,520 --> 01:52:34,200
Speaker 2: it's because of this sustained they immediately they have stars

2177
01:52:34,240 --> 01:52:38,280
Speaker 2: immediately right then Scully's the off field star and Sandy

2178
01:52:38,320 --> 01:52:42,120
Speaker 2: Kofag's the on field star that we immediately go to Drysdale.

2179
01:52:42,120 --> 01:52:44,960
Speaker 2: And then you have Garvey who's himself Hollywood. His wife

2180
01:52:45,040 --> 01:52:48,360
Speaker 2: is an actress, and you know he's a star. And

2181
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:51,839
Speaker 2: then Fernando's this big stars. It's a team of stars.

2182
01:52:52,600 --> 01:52:54,960
Speaker 2: They're not quite winning the World Series enough to say

2183
01:52:54,960 --> 01:52:57,800
Speaker 2: they're the number one baseball team, but they're on their

2184
01:52:57,840 --> 01:52:59,760
Speaker 2: way to donastic. Yeah, they're getting there.

2185
01:53:00,400 --> 01:53:05,640
Speaker 1: And uh, the impact of Fernando it still fell to

2186
01:53:05,640 --> 01:53:07,760
Speaker 1: this day and it just changes the tone and the

2187
01:53:07,800 --> 01:53:09,439
Speaker 1: tenor of the Dodgers. So the fact that you know

2188
01:53:09,479 --> 01:53:12,799
Speaker 1: we have Mariacci bans on opening day now, but remember

2189
01:53:12,800 --> 01:53:14,000
Speaker 1: how Dodger Stadium was born.

2190
01:53:14,200 --> 01:53:18,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is born as a way placing Mexican America.

2191
01:53:19,000 --> 01:53:21,960
Speaker 2: There's anger, there were there were You talk to old

2192
01:53:21,960 --> 01:53:26,120
Speaker 2: timers in LA and they'll say there were many, uh

2193
01:53:26,439 --> 01:53:30,800
Speaker 2: Mexican Americans who refused to root for the Dodgers, mad

2194
01:53:30,960 --> 01:53:33,160
Speaker 2: and angry about it because of what happened to Chevez,

2195
01:53:33,240 --> 01:53:36,439
Speaker 2: Rotine and Fernando read series. I think it was the

2196
01:53:36,479 --> 01:53:38,160
Speaker 2: forty Fannibursary of Fernando Mania.

2197
01:53:38,240 --> 01:53:41,400
Speaker 1: They went, they looked back and great video series actually,

2198
01:53:41,720 --> 01:53:44,479
Speaker 1: and Fernando's in it's speaking a lot of English actually,

2199
01:53:44,680 --> 01:53:47,799
Speaker 1: you know. But yeah, you have people in that saying

2200
01:53:47,800 --> 01:53:51,280
Speaker 1: that they just had Harvard this resentment, but Fernando brings

2201
01:53:51,320 --> 01:53:53,320
Speaker 1: them back. And then to this day, the amount of

2202
01:53:53,439 --> 01:53:56,360
Speaker 1: Latino fans that you see Mexican Americans and it's still

2203
01:53:56,400 --> 01:53:59,080
Speaker 1: Fernando Stadium. Yeah, and they're wearing brown zuela.

2204
01:53:59,680 --> 01:54:01,280
Speaker 2: It is just like what I was saying, what it

2205
01:54:01,320 --> 01:54:06,320
Speaker 2: is for many Jewish Americans about sandy from Mexican Americans.

2206
01:54:06,360 --> 01:54:07,840
Speaker 2: That's Fernando, isn't it.

2207
01:54:07,880 --> 01:54:10,160
Speaker 1: And he was such a big figure, and so you know,

2208
01:54:10,200 --> 01:54:12,559
Speaker 1: I'd go to Doughter games, covering Dodger games. In the

2209
01:54:12,560 --> 01:54:14,840
Speaker 1: press box, you'd see Fernando walking in there. He was

2210
01:54:14,880 --> 01:54:18,720
Speaker 1: the Spanish language. Yeah, he brought broadcaster for decades. Yeah,

2211
01:54:18,880 --> 01:54:22,840
Speaker 1: so he's there. And it's not that he was unfriendly,

2212
01:54:23,360 --> 01:54:26,680
Speaker 1: but I just felt I didn't want to take any

2213
01:54:26,680 --> 01:54:28,000
Speaker 1: of his time. I didn't want to talk to him,

2214
01:54:28,000 --> 01:54:29,880
Speaker 1: ask him a bunch of questions because I just felt

2215
01:54:29,880 --> 01:54:34,720
Speaker 1: like I could only begin to imagine the pressure that

2216
01:54:34,760 --> 01:54:37,480
Speaker 1: this iconic figure anytime you stepped out of the house

2217
01:54:37,480 --> 01:54:39,960
Speaker 1: in La and so I figured he didn't need me,

2218
01:54:40,120 --> 01:54:43,520
Speaker 1: He didn't need a single additional person coming up to him. Hey, Fernando,

2219
01:54:43,680 --> 01:54:46,320
Speaker 1: tell me about the time, you know. So it's just

2220
01:54:47,200 --> 01:54:49,400
Speaker 1: the amount of pressure he must have felt, the way

2221
01:54:49,400 --> 01:54:52,480
Speaker 1: he carried himself, you know, the way he was looked

2222
01:54:52,520 --> 01:54:56,120
Speaker 1: up to the way. I mean, it's funny he was

2223
01:54:56,160 --> 01:54:59,480
Speaker 1: the franchise to a significant portion in Los Angeles, Fernando

2224
01:54:59,560 --> 01:55:05,280
Speaker 1: violence was the Dodgers, and to never have any type

2225
01:55:05,320 --> 01:55:09,840
Speaker 1: of downfall, no major scandal, you know, but the way

2226
01:55:09,880 --> 01:55:11,920
Speaker 1: that you know, the only scandal is did Tommy burn

2227
01:55:11,960 --> 01:55:12,440
Speaker 1: out his arms?

2228
01:55:12,520 --> 01:55:14,680
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I say this with love with Tommy,

2229
01:55:14,760 --> 01:55:17,960
Speaker 2: because Tommy did do something that no manager in their

2230
01:55:18,000 --> 01:55:19,560
Speaker 2: right mind would have done. Is he left him in

2231
01:55:19,560 --> 01:55:22,240
Speaker 2: the World Series after he gave up all. And you

2232
01:55:22,280 --> 01:55:24,400
Speaker 2: know what when he when he left him in, Fernando

2233
01:55:24,440 --> 01:55:25,160
Speaker 2: became unhittable.

2234
01:55:25,280 --> 01:55:30,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. So he you know, he they win the World

2235
01:55:30,360 --> 01:55:33,240
Speaker 1: Series a year, perfect year, but looks in fact, that

2236
01:55:33,320 --> 01:55:35,000
Speaker 1: was the strike year Strikeshow crazy?

2237
01:55:35,160 --> 01:55:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Rember, there's this fun trivia question that the team

2238
01:55:39,800 --> 01:55:41,640
Speaker 2: with the best record in baseball never made the play

2239
01:55:41,800 --> 01:55:43,240
Speaker 2: never made the playoffs.

2240
01:55:42,800 --> 01:55:45,200
Speaker 1: And they split the season that yet into the first

2241
01:55:45,200 --> 01:55:46,720
Speaker 1: half and the second half, and so the winner of

2242
01:55:46,760 --> 01:55:48,160
Speaker 1: the first half played the winner.

2243
01:55:47,920 --> 01:55:52,640
Speaker 2: The first division series. Yeah, and in fact that, oh,

2244
01:55:52,720 --> 01:55:56,040
Speaker 2: there were two moments the Dodgers shouldn't have gotten out

2245
01:55:56,080 --> 01:55:58,680
Speaker 2: of the Division series with the Astros. Then they play

2246
01:55:59,080 --> 01:56:03,240
Speaker 2: this young team Montreal and it's Rick Monday who does

2247
01:56:03,320 --> 01:56:05,280
Speaker 2: the saving home run.

2248
01:56:05,320 --> 01:56:06,320
Speaker 1: But that was that.

2249
01:56:07,040 --> 01:56:09,000
Speaker 2: There were a lot of pitfalls for that eighty one

2250
01:56:09,040 --> 01:56:11,080
Speaker 2: Dodger team. And then they go down to zero in

2251
01:56:11,080 --> 01:56:14,280
Speaker 2: the World Series and win for straight to win.

2252
01:56:14,200 --> 01:56:17,560
Speaker 1: The whole thing. They win again in eighty eight. Of course,

2253
01:56:18,040 --> 01:56:22,720
Speaker 1: the horse a year to kind of conclude that era

2254
01:56:22,960 --> 01:56:24,240
Speaker 1: of the Dodger, and it really does.

2255
01:56:24,280 --> 01:56:26,560
Speaker 2: It's the end of tom I mean, it's not Tommy's last.

2256
01:56:26,440 --> 01:56:28,640
Speaker 1: Year, because he goes all the way to ninety six.

2257
01:56:28,520 --> 01:56:31,960
Speaker 2: But it felt like the beginning of the end.

2258
01:56:32,440 --> 01:56:38,640
Speaker 1: Well similarly, how you know, Fernando probably burned out overuse,

2259
01:56:38,720 --> 01:56:39,520
Speaker 1: right and didn't get the.

2260
01:56:39,760 --> 01:56:41,760
Speaker 2: He really wasn't a factor in the eighty eight Yes, yeah,

2261
01:56:41,880 --> 01:56:42,760
Speaker 2: the way he was.

2262
01:56:42,920 --> 01:56:45,080
Speaker 1: Although he sticks around throws no hitter in nineteen ninety,

2263
01:56:45,080 --> 01:56:46,720
Speaker 1: which I was at by the way, so he did

2264
01:56:46,720 --> 01:56:48,760
Speaker 1: that for the Oils. No no for that one was

2265
01:56:48,760 --> 01:56:50,600
Speaker 1: for the It was nineteen ninety, so I was actually

2266
01:56:50,600 --> 01:56:53,000
Speaker 1: I think it was funny. So former Dodger Dave Stewart

2267
01:56:53,000 --> 01:56:54,919
Speaker 1: it pitched a no hitter earlier the day in Toronto,

2268
01:56:55,520 --> 01:56:59,120
Speaker 1: and They're showing the highlights on the scoreboard and I'm thinking, man,

2269
01:56:59,200 --> 01:57:01,240
Speaker 1: it would be great to be there for a no

2270
01:57:01,360 --> 01:57:04,400
Speaker 1: hitter or something. And literally that game, Fernando throw's no hitter?

2271
01:57:04,480 --> 01:57:06,480
Speaker 2: Is that your only no hitter? Only no hitter I've

2272
01:57:06,480 --> 01:57:10,200
Speaker 2: ever seen in person. So it's funny because even as

2273
01:57:10,240 --> 01:57:12,840
Speaker 2: a sports writer it's still very common to be in

2274
01:57:13,640 --> 01:57:14,080
Speaker 2: I can.

2275
01:57:13,960 --> 01:57:16,760
Speaker 1: Still hear Vin Scully's callow. That's how ingrained he is.

2276
01:57:16,840 --> 01:57:20,040
Speaker 1: Like the call, is I the aba sombrero, throw it

2277
01:57:20,080 --> 01:57:23,000
Speaker 1: in the air, you know? Yeah, yeah, So that's that.

2278
01:57:23,200 --> 01:57:25,200
Speaker 1: That was when he said it was after the last

2279
01:57:25,240 --> 01:57:28,080
Speaker 1: I was a groundball by Paedrick Garrever, former Dodger. We

2280
01:57:28,280 --> 01:57:30,000
Speaker 1: hit a grounder up the middle for the final out.

2281
01:57:31,840 --> 01:57:35,000
Speaker 1: But as we getting into the nineties, another sort of players.

2282
01:57:35,040 --> 01:57:38,560
Speaker 1: So we have the eighty eight. There's what eighty eight

2283
01:57:38,760 --> 01:57:42,200
Speaker 1: for Gibson. I mean, it is such a it's is it.

2284
01:57:42,760 --> 01:57:43,440
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny.

2285
01:57:43,440 --> 01:57:46,000
Speaker 2: The Dodgers are arguably have three or four of the

2286
01:57:46,040 --> 01:57:52,800
Speaker 2: most famous playoff walkoffs ever. The negative the shot were

2287
01:57:52,800 --> 01:57:58,360
Speaker 2: heard around the world. Ye Gibson, Freddie Freeman.

2288
01:57:58,600 --> 01:58:04,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love the fact that Joe Davis Echode Ye

2289
01:58:05,280 --> 01:58:09,640
Speaker 1: Ben Scully's call, she is gone, he used the exact same,

2290
01:58:10,240 --> 01:58:14,120
Speaker 1: probably the three most beloved words in Dodger fan history,

2291
01:58:14,280 --> 01:58:17,600
Speaker 1: she is gone. It just still gives me goosebumps every

2292
01:58:17,600 --> 01:58:20,240
Speaker 1: time I watch that. Clay and I still laugh every

2293
01:58:20,240 --> 01:58:23,480
Speaker 1: time I see the parking lights. So the break lights

2294
01:58:23,520 --> 01:58:25,960
Speaker 1: come on out be on the right field pavilion as

2295
01:58:26,000 --> 01:58:27,320
Speaker 1: soon as people realize, oh my god.

2296
01:58:28,200 --> 01:58:30,800
Speaker 2: One of my favorite things that you know, the internet's

2297
01:58:30,880 --> 01:58:32,440
Speaker 2: terrible for a lot of reasons, but one of the

2298
01:58:32,480 --> 01:58:35,000
Speaker 2: great things the internet does let us have is you

2299
01:58:35,000 --> 01:58:39,000
Speaker 2: can watch the entire bottom of the night. Yeah, and

2300
01:58:39,040 --> 01:58:41,760
Speaker 2: Scully's call for the entire bottom of the night.

2301
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:42,640
Speaker 1: It is still there.

2302
01:58:43,080 --> 01:58:45,360
Speaker 2: I implore you, if you've never I made my son

2303
01:58:45,440 --> 01:58:49,240
Speaker 2: watch it to just try to understand how improbable this was.

2304
01:58:49,640 --> 01:58:54,120
Speaker 2: How many times that the weak foul tip that almost

2305
01:58:54,240 --> 01:58:56,960
Speaker 2: stays fair and it's like, well, he's just going to

2306
01:58:56,960 --> 01:59:00,080
Speaker 2: get tagged out games over. You know, I have this

2307
01:59:00,160 --> 01:59:02,160
Speaker 2: weird memory. I was at a high school football game.

2308
01:59:02,680 --> 01:59:06,080
Speaker 2: I'm playing, I was, I was attending and it's in Miami,

2309
01:59:06,720 --> 01:59:11,080
Speaker 2: and over the speaker they go update from the World

2310
01:59:11,160 --> 01:59:15,960
Speaker 2: Series Miami's own Jose Conseco, because Jose Canseco was this

2311
01:59:16,440 --> 01:59:19,480
Speaker 2: new up and coming superstar at the time, and so

2312
01:59:19,960 --> 01:59:24,600
Speaker 2: and everybody's cheering for the A's in Miami because of Konseko.

2313
01:59:24,680 --> 01:59:26,480
Speaker 1: And this is before we know all the other stuff

2314
01:59:26,480 --> 01:59:29,200
Speaker 1: about him. But he's just you know, the bash brothers

2315
01:59:29,200 --> 01:59:31,839
Speaker 1: that it's such an exciting thing. And I'm just all depressed.

2316
01:59:31,880 --> 01:59:35,200
Speaker 1: Oh man, I'm missing this. And I didn't get home and.

2317
01:59:37,040 --> 01:59:41,200
Speaker 2: And so you hear the Kinseco and then and I

2318
01:59:41,320 --> 01:59:45,400
Speaker 2: actually happened to be I heard Jack Bucks call because

2319
01:59:45,480 --> 01:59:48,800
Speaker 2: I was in a car or a radio going going

2320
01:59:48,840 --> 01:59:51,720
Speaker 2: home after the game. And that's so I never I

2321
01:59:51,800 --> 01:59:52,880
Speaker 2: ended up seeing the Scuts.

2322
01:59:53,080 --> 01:59:55,920
Speaker 1: I didn't hear either, lie because I was working that night.

2323
01:59:56,000 --> 01:59:58,240
Speaker 1: I was a freshman here in Northwestern and I had

2324
01:59:58,400 --> 01:59:59,720
Speaker 1: worked that night in my.

2325
01:59:59,760 --> 02:00:03,320
Speaker 2: Room just outed. Our ages are pretty close.

2326
02:00:03,400 --> 02:00:06,920
Speaker 1: So my roommate called over and you know, gave me,

2327
02:00:07,320 --> 02:00:10,800
Speaker 1: told me what happened. I also missed Freeman's home run Live.

2328
02:00:11,000 --> 02:00:12,960
Speaker 1: I saw it on that app. I just see that

2329
02:00:13,200 --> 02:00:16,080
Speaker 1: everyone all of a sudden going around the pages. Yeah,

2330
02:00:16,200 --> 02:00:18,560
Speaker 1: go ahead. So the other thing with that is you

2331
02:00:18,560 --> 02:00:21,680
Speaker 1: mentioned Kinseko, so Jim Murray the Great feel surprised when

2332
02:00:21,720 --> 02:00:24,360
Speaker 1: in sports comments at the other day Times Kincico just

2333
02:00:24,400 --> 02:00:27,280
Speaker 1: hit a bomb, hit a grand slam bag. I believe

2334
02:00:27,280 --> 02:00:30,760
Speaker 1: it was a grand slam. And so like Murray's has

2335
02:00:30,800 --> 02:00:32,440
Speaker 1: his whole comrade like this is one of the great

2336
02:00:32,440 --> 02:00:34,280
Speaker 1: home runs and went through fourth and it's going to

2337
02:00:34,280 --> 02:00:36,160
Speaker 1: be a fourth run. Yeah, so he's got his whole

2338
02:00:36,200 --> 02:00:38,800
Speaker 1: story written. And then for Gibson seeing the story.

2339
02:00:38,880 --> 02:00:41,400
Speaker 2: So for me, the eighty eight my my father died

2340
02:00:41,400 --> 02:00:43,879
Speaker 2: in November of eighty eight. He was in the hospital

2341
02:00:43,920 --> 02:00:46,080
Speaker 2: for a long time, for fifty to fifty two days.

2342
02:00:46,080 --> 02:00:48,640
Speaker 2: And I see you we watched that. Well that's the

2343
02:00:48,720 --> 02:00:51,760
Speaker 2: last thing we got to do together. He was watched

2344
02:00:51,760 --> 02:00:54,680
Speaker 2: that World Series. So it's for you know, and this

2345
02:00:54,720 --> 02:00:57,160
Speaker 2: is what why we want, why why do we love sports,

2346
02:00:57,360 --> 02:01:00,480
Speaker 2: Because they're really about helping us mark time in our

2347
02:01:00,520 --> 02:01:03,440
Speaker 2: own lives. And so for me, I know we're going

2348
02:01:03,520 --> 02:01:08,000
Speaker 2: to the eighty eight World Series is just just forever memorialized,

2349
02:01:08,240 --> 02:01:11,320
Speaker 2: and it's like, I always want to go up to

2350
02:01:11,400 --> 02:01:14,720
Speaker 2: Kirk Gibson and thank him for giving my dad a

2351
02:01:14,760 --> 02:01:17,880
Speaker 2: great memory before it before Literally one of the.

2352
02:01:17,920 --> 02:01:21,200
Speaker 1: Last big memories last day grandmother's life, and she was

2353
02:01:21,200 --> 02:01:23,960
Speaker 1: a big Laker fan, was the comeback of the Game

2354
02:01:24,040 --> 02:01:27,000
Speaker 1: seven come back for the Lakers in the Western Conference

2355
02:01:27,080 --> 02:01:30,560
Speaker 1: Finals against Portland. Oh my goodness. Yeah, and yeah, that

2356
02:01:31,160 --> 02:01:35,200
Speaker 1: h that that whole finals that year. My mom passed

2357
02:01:35,400 --> 02:01:37,440
Speaker 1: a few days after the NBA Finals that year, so

2358
02:01:37,920 --> 02:01:39,600
Speaker 1: one of the last things she did was went to

2359
02:01:39,760 --> 02:01:41,680
Speaker 1: Game seven or a game it was Game six for

2360
02:01:41,720 --> 02:01:43,720
Speaker 1: the Lakers to see that. So yeah, I think of

2361
02:01:43,720 --> 02:01:46,160
Speaker 1: that two thousand Finals. Yeah, the same way you think

2362
02:01:46,200 --> 02:01:48,120
Speaker 1: of that nineteen eighty eight World Series.

2363
02:01:48,920 --> 02:01:50,720
Speaker 2: So when you when you look at the Dodgers now,

2364
02:01:50,760 --> 02:01:54,200
Speaker 2: when we look backwards, right eighty eight is this, Yeah,

2365
02:01:54,200 --> 02:01:56,840
Speaker 2: there's I remember so Bob Costas I think said it

2366
02:01:56,880 --> 02:01:59,120
Speaker 2: was the worst World Series lineup in the history. Yeah, Tom,

2367
02:01:59,240 --> 02:02:01,120
Speaker 2: it was sort of about one of the great upsets. It's

2368
02:02:01,160 --> 02:02:03,880
Speaker 2: oh still one of the most remarkable. Everything about it.

2369
02:02:03,920 --> 02:02:06,880
Speaker 2: That team had no business. Mickey Hatcher hit more home

2370
02:02:06,920 --> 02:02:08,640
Speaker 2: runs in the World Series than he did all year

2371
02:02:08,840 --> 02:02:10,200
Speaker 2: two and the World Series won.

2372
02:02:10,560 --> 02:02:13,160
Speaker 1: During the season, right Mickey Hatcher was started.

2373
02:02:14,160 --> 02:02:16,720
Speaker 2: Mickey Atcher was a great, you know, sort of utility bed,

2374
02:02:16,720 --> 02:02:18,560
Speaker 2: but Mickey Atcher had to start right.

2375
02:02:18,520 --> 02:02:21,200
Speaker 1: For the World Series champions So decades later, I'm in

2376
02:02:21,200 --> 02:02:24,080
Speaker 1: the green room at ESPN and all Herstizer is there.

2377
02:02:24,440 --> 02:02:26,280
Speaker 2: Ye world's heies, and you said.

2378
02:02:26,120 --> 02:02:29,800
Speaker 1: Here, like try it on, and like, you know, I'd

2379
02:02:29,800 --> 02:02:33,880
Speaker 1: actually held championship rings before, but like that was like

2380
02:02:34,040 --> 02:02:37,000
Speaker 1: his ring, Like he won that ring like single handedly,

2381
02:02:37,000 --> 02:02:39,320
Speaker 1: almost like he was the world. He was the MVP,

2382
02:02:39,640 --> 02:02:42,520
Speaker 1: like pitches in relief in the UH in the League

2383
02:02:42,560 --> 02:02:48,320
Speaker 1: Championship series against the Mets, like like it was.

2384
02:02:45,680 --> 02:02:49,400
Speaker 2: You now that we see now when you see whether

2385
02:02:49,440 --> 02:02:51,480
Speaker 2: it's Max sus or with the with the Nats or

2386
02:02:51,840 --> 02:02:53,680
Speaker 2: or what we saw with Yamalodo.

2387
02:02:53,680 --> 02:02:57,400
Speaker 1: You know, uh ties or breaks down Dryses, shut out

2388
02:02:57,400 --> 02:03:00,200
Speaker 1: Inning Street during the during the down the stretch to

2389
02:03:00,280 --> 02:03:03,280
Speaker 1: get the Dodgers into the playoffs. So like he's single

2390
02:03:03,360 --> 02:03:05,640
Speaker 1: handedly I felt like, you know, with one swing of

2391
02:03:05,640 --> 02:03:06,440
Speaker 1: the bat from Gibson.

2392
02:03:07,520 --> 02:03:09,520
Speaker 2: Well, trust me, there's Mets fans in my life that

2393
02:03:09,600 --> 02:03:11,600
Speaker 2: are bitter about that eighty eight season because they're like,

2394
02:03:11,760 --> 02:03:13,320
Speaker 2: you guys had no business winning the NLCY.

2395
02:03:13,400 --> 02:03:16,640
Speaker 1: Yes, you're right, yeah, yeah, really one of the great upsets.

2396
02:03:16,680 --> 02:03:19,680
Speaker 2: But it is really the end it from when you

2397
02:03:19,720 --> 02:03:25,440
Speaker 2: look at the Dodgers between eighty nine and arguably the

2398
02:03:25,520 --> 02:03:30,280
Speaker 2: turmoil begins, right the O'Malleys have to sell you know, let's.

2399
02:03:30,160 --> 02:03:34,200
Speaker 1: All later though, but I would say first, it's not it.

2400
02:03:34,480 --> 02:03:36,760
Speaker 1: Maybe we didn't realize it at the time. Somewhat though,

2401
02:03:36,840 --> 02:03:42,200
Speaker 1: but in the nineties where they all Nomo yes, you

2402
02:03:42,200 --> 02:03:46,600
Speaker 1: know so, which in some ways continues the you know, the.

2403
02:03:46,600 --> 02:03:49,080
Speaker 2: Path before there's e chier Row. People forget this before

2404
02:03:49,080 --> 02:03:52,000
Speaker 2: there's e chier Row. Yeah, there's Nomo and the importance

2405
02:03:52,000 --> 02:03:54,720
Speaker 2: of Nomo Nomo in some ways the Kirk flood.

2406
02:03:54,440 --> 02:03:55,600
Speaker 1: Of Japanese baseball players.

2407
02:03:55,640 --> 02:04:01,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he gets the Japanese Baseball League eventually didn't

2408
02:04:01,200 --> 02:04:04,160
Speaker 2: take a Supreme Court rule no no, but he essentially

2409
02:04:04,480 --> 02:04:07,840
Speaker 2: forces the hand of Japanese baseball leagues to loosen their

2410
02:04:07,960 --> 02:04:12,320
Speaker 2: rules about how long before you get to before you

2411
02:04:12,320 --> 02:04:15,360
Speaker 2: get to leave, and Nomo sort of he retires.

2412
02:04:16,680 --> 02:04:18,160
Speaker 1: There was a rule that you had to play ten

2413
02:04:18,200 --> 02:04:20,720
Speaker 1: years in Japan before you could leave unless you retired,

2414
02:04:20,800 --> 02:04:24,880
Speaker 1: Unless you retired. Yeah, so it actually his hand was

2415
02:04:24,920 --> 02:04:28,120
Speaker 1: forced in this regard. So the leverage Japanese League teams

2416
02:04:28,120 --> 02:04:29,600
Speaker 1: had was they could force players on.

2417
02:04:29,640 --> 02:04:31,200
Speaker 2: Something called the volunteer retired list.

2418
02:04:31,600 --> 02:04:36,000
Speaker 1: So they had made an offer, well that Nomo and

2419
02:04:36,040 --> 02:04:38,720
Speaker 1: his agent made. It proposed of a six year, thirty

2420
02:04:38,720 --> 02:04:41,880
Speaker 1: six million dollar contract demand considered not raizised at that time,

2421
02:04:41,960 --> 02:04:44,560
Speaker 1: right force the team's hands. So they said, we're not

2422
02:04:44,640 --> 02:04:46,640
Speaker 1: being that. You know, we're gonna don voluntary retired list.

2423
02:04:47,200 --> 02:04:53,520
Speaker 1: So they said, okay, if that's how you feel, well,

2424
02:04:54,040 --> 02:04:56,040
Speaker 1: we're retired. That means we can go to Yeah, yeah,

2425
02:04:56,040 --> 02:04:59,320
Speaker 1: we go to La So interesting. Peter O'Malley, who had

2426
02:04:59,360 --> 02:05:01,440
Speaker 1: taken over for his father Walter at the time, is

2427
02:05:01,640 --> 02:05:03,920
Speaker 1: owning the Dodgers. He was worried that sani No would

2428
02:05:03,920 --> 02:05:06,720
Speaker 1: actually ruin the Dodgor's reputation in Japan, which went back

2429
02:05:06,720 --> 02:05:11,520
Speaker 1: to the nineteen fifties. There's actually a Japanese stone lantern

2430
02:05:11,600 --> 02:05:13,520
Speaker 1: that was given the Dodgers by Japanese sports writers in

2431
02:05:13,600 --> 02:05:16,720
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five that's recently been restored and put outside

2432
02:05:16,760 --> 02:05:20,080
Speaker 1: the stadium, but it was a reflection of the relationship

2433
02:05:20,120 --> 02:05:21,880
Speaker 1: between the Dodgers in Japan, and he's like, well, if

2434
02:05:21,880 --> 02:05:24,760
Speaker 1: we start taking their players they're not going to love us.

2435
02:05:24,800 --> 02:05:28,120
Speaker 1: But he actually almost went to the Mariners first, but

2436
02:05:28,200 --> 02:05:30,680
Speaker 1: he didn't pass the physical. Then the kind of giants,

2437
02:05:30,720 --> 02:05:34,200
Speaker 1: and then the Dodgers wound up with them. The agent,

2438
02:05:35,040 --> 02:05:39,240
Speaker 1: well arn't Tellham was the agent who worked with Normal's

2439
02:05:39,280 --> 02:05:43,080
Speaker 1: agent Don de Moura, And he actually mentioned the Dodgers'

2440
02:05:43,160 --> 02:05:47,360
Speaker 1: history of diversity and the large Japanese population. So this

2441
02:05:47,520 --> 02:05:49,640
Speaker 1: kind of goes into theory. Don't be talking in to it.

2442
02:05:49,880 --> 02:05:53,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he wasn't really with it, but another

2443
02:05:53,920 --> 02:05:55,680
Speaker 2: barrier broke, yeah, And it kind of.

2444
02:05:55,680 --> 02:05:59,440
Speaker 1: Goes into the notion markin Gladwell talked about an outliers

2445
02:05:59,480 --> 02:06:03,320
Speaker 1: that sometimes things are a result of they could only

2446
02:06:03,440 --> 02:06:06,440
Speaker 1: happen because of a certain place, right, So it's not

2447
02:06:06,560 --> 02:06:08,520
Speaker 1: just nature versus nurture, but it's kind of that the

2448
02:06:08,760 --> 02:06:12,560
Speaker 1: environment dictates what happens. In this case, the Dodger's history

2449
02:06:13,240 --> 02:06:17,040
Speaker 1: of diversity and the move to LA and the large

2450
02:06:17,040 --> 02:06:19,960
Speaker 1: agent population in LA and the diverse population in LA

2451
02:06:20,560 --> 02:06:24,200
Speaker 1: helped facilitate or maybe bring brought about this Normal signing

2452
02:06:24,200 --> 02:06:25,080
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety five.

2453
02:06:26,000 --> 02:06:28,760
Speaker 2: It could have easily been San Francisco. It is interesting

2454
02:06:28,840 --> 02:06:31,960
Speaker 2: that that LA is the one because they've constantly, They've

2455
02:06:32,000 --> 02:06:33,400
Speaker 2: consistently done that.

2456
02:06:35,040 --> 02:06:38,440
Speaker 1: This kind of funny side one of this Nomo with

2457
02:06:38,560 --> 02:06:41,400
Speaker 1: the big Japanese media crowd falling around in spring training

2458
02:06:41,520 --> 02:06:45,480
Speaker 1: that year, they're playing the Yankees and it catches Geordan

2459
02:06:45,480 --> 02:06:48,560
Speaker 1: steinbren his attention. Yes, he does. So he calls in

2460
02:06:48,680 --> 02:06:52,760
Speaker 1: Derek Hall, who was in with the Dodgers, and he asks, Hey,

2461
02:06:52,800 --> 02:06:57,160
Speaker 1: who is this guy? So Hall told him two years

2462
02:06:57,200 --> 02:06:58,920
Speaker 1: later the Yankees had to Beckie Robins.

2463
02:06:59,040 --> 02:07:02,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Steinbrenner, he didn't like that there was more media

2464
02:07:02,800 --> 02:07:05,520
Speaker 2: covering the Dodgers than there was covering the Yankees.

2465
02:07:06,480 --> 02:07:09,160
Speaker 1: Let's get these guys. Yeah, let's let's get these guys

2466
02:07:09,200 --> 02:07:13,440
Speaker 1: over here. The toad.

2467
02:07:13,600 --> 02:07:16,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was some terrible, terrible dick day for him.

2468
02:07:16,760 --> 02:07:18,600
Speaker 2: You know, Nomo has one of these. You know, he's

2469
02:07:18,600 --> 02:07:22,240
Speaker 2: a guy that is I think he's definitely a Dodger icon.

2470
02:07:23,040 --> 02:07:25,320
Speaker 2: You know, he does not have Hall of Fame stats,

2471
02:07:25,360 --> 02:07:27,240
Speaker 2: but he's he still has I mean, he's a no

2472
02:07:27,360 --> 02:07:30,200
Speaker 2: hitter in each lead. Yeah, you know, and is no hitters.

2473
02:07:30,960 --> 02:07:31,960
Speaker 1: It's no hitters are.

2474
02:07:32,080 --> 02:07:36,440
Speaker 2: One's a course field and the others at Camden Yards. Okay,

2475
02:07:36,680 --> 02:07:38,920
Speaker 2: this is not like he's doing it at the old

2476
02:07:39,400 --> 02:07:41,800
Speaker 2: you know at the Tiger Stadium, which is the big

2477
02:07:41,840 --> 02:07:45,120
Speaker 2: Pitchers Ballpark, or even pack Bell or the old Yeah,

2478
02:07:45,320 --> 02:07:48,480
Speaker 2: you know, these are these are all considered hitters parks.

2479
02:07:48,520 --> 02:07:50,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sorry. I remember when he had I

2480
02:07:50,680 --> 02:07:52,480
Speaker 2: saw a one hitter at Coursefield, and I thought I

2481
02:07:52,600 --> 02:07:55,520
Speaker 2: had seen history. Nomo gets a no hitter at Coursefield.

2482
02:07:55,560 --> 02:07:58,720
Speaker 2: I remember when that happened. It felt like, well, that's

2483
02:07:59,640 --> 02:08:01,560
Speaker 2: that extra special for that race.

2484
02:08:01,720 --> 02:08:04,640
Speaker 1: I remember, like, they don't. I won't do no hitter

2485
02:08:05,120 --> 02:08:08,160
Speaker 1: at corse Field. Right, It's like it's like scoring three

2486
02:08:08,160 --> 02:08:10,640
Speaker 1: points bam out of byo. Right, It's like to say,

2487
02:08:10,760 --> 02:08:12,760
Speaker 1: think you're like corse Field. So normal of that first

2488
02:08:12,840 --> 02:08:15,720
Speaker 1: year sixteen strikeouts in the game, finishes the season with

2489
02:08:15,800 --> 02:08:18,600
Speaker 1: a league leading towards the thirty six strikeouts and three shutouts.

2490
02:08:19,720 --> 02:08:23,360
Speaker 1: Not quite the same tennis impact as Fernando, but he

2491
02:08:23,440 --> 02:08:26,560
Speaker 1: did have a fifty three thousand and an average almost

2492
02:08:26,560 --> 02:08:29,440
Speaker 1: forty nine thousand a game over a six start stretch

2493
02:08:29,520 --> 02:08:30,400
Speaker 1: at Doutch STATEUM.

2494
02:08:30,440 --> 02:08:32,840
Speaker 2: But it was the beginning of the Dodgers sort of.

2495
02:08:33,200 --> 02:08:35,880
Speaker 2: I mean, look, we'd see it. You had Channel Park

2496
02:08:35,960 --> 02:08:39,400
Speaker 2: was the first Korean player, but you had Ryu Boy

2497
02:08:39,480 --> 02:08:42,800
Speaker 2: when he would come. Those were automatic sellouts of Koreatown

2498
02:08:43,120 --> 02:08:44,400
Speaker 2: would just come too, so.

2499
02:08:44,560 --> 02:08:46,680
Speaker 1: You know, bringing them to mind, you know, the off

2500
02:08:46,840 --> 02:08:50,680
Speaker 1: overlook Korean population in LA. But like if you go

2501
02:08:50,760 --> 02:08:52,680
Speaker 1: to Dodger Stadium through Surface Street, you try to avoid

2502
02:08:52,720 --> 02:08:55,400
Speaker 1: the freeway, you go right through Koreatown. You know, it's

2503
02:08:55,440 --> 02:08:58,640
Speaker 1: like unavoided on Ryu pitching Knights. Yeah, right, like right,

2504
02:08:58,680 --> 02:09:01,360
Speaker 1: you know, to be able to actnovate. You know this

2505
02:09:01,600 --> 02:09:03,880
Speaker 1: this fan base in addition to the Japanese fan base

2506
02:09:03,920 --> 02:09:09,040
Speaker 1: now right, and so yeah, Channah Park from Korea. Uh,

2507
02:09:09,680 --> 02:09:13,440
Speaker 1: he stopped Troy another big slugger that that the Dodgers signed.

2508
02:09:14,720 --> 02:09:20,160
Speaker 1: I would say if Jackie, if the Jackie or someone

2509
02:09:20,280 --> 02:09:22,600
Speaker 1: like him was inevitable. I mean, you know, Larry Dobe

2510
02:09:22,760 --> 02:09:26,640
Speaker 1: was eleven weeks after Jackie Robinson, right, So like that

2511
02:09:26,880 --> 02:09:30,720
Speaker 1: breaking of the color line was inevitable, right, nomal not

2512
02:09:30,880 --> 02:09:34,320
Speaker 1: necessarily right, you know, like I'm not sure that Dale

2513
02:09:34,400 --> 02:09:40,320
Speaker 1: Nomo or you know, or Irabu or you know, any

2514
02:09:40,440 --> 02:09:44,440
Speaker 1: any likeevitable. I could argue Jackue and we talked, we

2515
02:09:44,520 --> 02:09:47,480
Speaker 1: talked about them, just the movement and the time in

2516
02:09:47,800 --> 02:09:50,040
Speaker 1: but if the actually states in the nineteen forties, right,

2517
02:09:50,160 --> 02:09:51,760
Speaker 1: that was not what was going on in the US

2518
02:09:51,800 --> 02:09:53,080
Speaker 1: in the nineteen ninety No, but.

2519
02:09:53,120 --> 02:09:55,160
Speaker 2: I actually would argue in the nineteen nineties this is

2520
02:09:55,240 --> 02:09:56,480
Speaker 2: just now to bring it back a little bit, to

2521
02:09:56,640 --> 02:10:00,800
Speaker 2: to sort of my terrain, this is the beginning of globalization, right,

2522
02:10:00,880 --> 02:10:03,840
Speaker 2: this is the beginning of free trade agreements everywhere NAFTAS

2523
02:10:04,280 --> 02:10:06,960
Speaker 2: puts place. We're opening the doors with China, We're having

2524
02:10:06,960 --> 02:10:10,960
Speaker 2: all this trade, so we're already moving goods globalization. So

2525
02:10:11,080 --> 02:10:14,280
Speaker 2: in some ways, of course, sports is going to globalize,

2526
02:10:14,840 --> 02:10:19,240
Speaker 2: and I think now you look back on it, well, yeah,

2527
02:10:19,280 --> 02:10:23,280
Speaker 2: it's inevitable. Globalization allowed for that to happen, and somebody

2528
02:10:23,320 --> 02:10:23,840
Speaker 2: had to be first.

2529
02:10:23,880 --> 02:10:24,000
Speaker 1: You know.

2530
02:10:24,360 --> 02:10:26,919
Speaker 2: What's funny is that, you know, Ichiro was playing professionally

2531
02:10:26,960 --> 02:10:29,800
Speaker 2: starting in nineteen ninety three when Nomo came over, eachier

2532
02:10:29,840 --> 02:10:33,440
Speaker 2: Ro was was was already playing professional ball, you know,

2533
02:10:33,640 --> 02:10:35,560
Speaker 2: and you know, my goodness, he was a Hall of

2534
02:10:35,600 --> 02:10:37,920
Speaker 2: Famer while here imagine Eddie started.

2535
02:10:38,360 --> 02:10:42,160
Speaker 1: Imagine Eddy came over with Nomo. Yeah, at that time.

2536
02:10:42,480 --> 02:10:44,520
Speaker 2: But it is I think now when you look at

2537
02:10:44,560 --> 02:10:47,520
Speaker 2: it and you look at the larger what was happening

2538
02:10:47,520 --> 02:10:50,640
Speaker 2: around the world, it actually also just seems as just

2539
02:10:50,720 --> 02:10:51,320
Speaker 2: as inevitable.

2540
02:10:52,280 --> 02:10:56,520
Speaker 1: You know, and then I think the I'm still I

2541
02:10:56,560 --> 02:10:58,520
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know if i'd give the because

2542
02:10:59,120 --> 02:11:03,600
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of that had preceded in

2543
02:11:03,680 --> 02:11:06,800
Speaker 1: some ways, especially like like Japanese business investment in Los

2544
02:11:06,840 --> 02:11:10,120
Speaker 1: Angeles was peak eighty, no doubt. But I guess that's

2545
02:11:10,160 --> 02:11:12,440
Speaker 1: the thing, Like first you had to come with the money, right,

2546
02:11:12,600 --> 02:11:15,160
Speaker 1: then you come with the culture. But the fact that

2547
02:11:15,320 --> 02:11:19,120
Speaker 1: Jackie precedes the civil rights movement in right, But does

2548
02:11:19,240 --> 02:11:22,200
Speaker 1: Jackie happen without World War Two? No? Right?

2549
02:11:22,360 --> 02:11:25,920
Speaker 2: And I think that, you know, because black Americans were

2550
02:11:25,960 --> 02:11:28,680
Speaker 2: so important to the fight in World War two. Right,

2551
02:11:29,000 --> 02:11:32,200
Speaker 2: you do have Truman, you know, desegregating the military.

2552
02:11:32,560 --> 02:11:32,680
Speaker 1: Right.

2553
02:11:32,760 --> 02:11:36,480
Speaker 2: That is, so one could argue that the civil rights

2554
02:11:36,840 --> 02:11:41,440
Speaker 2: movement was really taking it that the what would culminate

2555
02:11:41,520 --> 02:11:45,920
Speaker 2: in the sixties was percolating right around direct with World

2556
02:11:45,960 --> 02:11:47,560
Speaker 2: War with the end of World War two, so.

2557
02:11:49,200 --> 02:11:53,400
Speaker 1: Easier to look backwards. So you know, just like everything

2558
02:11:53,520 --> 02:11:58,000
Speaker 1: after Watergate was Gates, yes, every scandal. So everything after

2559
02:11:58,080 --> 02:12:02,880
Speaker 1: Fernando Mania was Mania. So they began, you know, they

2560
02:12:02,960 --> 02:12:04,480
Speaker 1: were similar in that. You know, again it was just

2561
02:12:04,600 --> 02:12:07,040
Speaker 1: take the wind up. You know, they called him the tornado,

2562
02:12:07,320 --> 02:12:10,200
Speaker 1: right because he had that big twisting thing he turns back.

2563
02:12:11,120 --> 02:12:14,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, I and I think it does take us

2564
02:12:14,240 --> 02:12:18,120
Speaker 1: all the way to show right. And I think the

2565
02:12:18,240 --> 02:12:20,919
Speaker 1: fact that Normo and the Dodger's success with with Otani,

2566
02:12:21,640 --> 02:12:24,240
Speaker 1: when does Otani become a Dodger? You know what I

2567
02:12:24,320 --> 02:12:26,560
Speaker 1: mean by that? Is he a Dodger? Dodger?

2568
02:12:27,320 --> 02:12:29,520
Speaker 2: Is he? Because I go back and I struggle with

2569
02:12:29,600 --> 02:12:32,080
Speaker 2: this with with the this version of the Dodgers, because

2570
02:12:32,400 --> 02:12:35,640
Speaker 2: the only thing with with today's dot with the with

2571
02:12:35,760 --> 02:12:40,960
Speaker 2: the modern Dodgers is is that they they they always

2572
02:12:41,040 --> 02:12:44,760
Speaker 2: began as Dodgers. They're stars normally, right, and Otani is

2573
02:12:44,800 --> 02:12:47,720
Speaker 2: the first one that's bought purchase from somebody else.

2574
02:12:48,000 --> 02:12:51,840
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing. He I think he becomes a

2575
02:12:51,920 --> 02:12:57,800
Speaker 1: Dodger his first postseason at bat. Yeah, we didn't get

2576
02:12:57,880 --> 02:13:00,880
Speaker 1: to see him in the postseason when we're right, great

2577
02:13:00,920 --> 02:13:03,120
Speaker 1: failure to the Angels. They have Trout and Otani to

2578
02:13:03,320 --> 02:13:05,960
Speaker 1: all time greats and we never get And so just

2579
02:13:06,160 --> 02:13:12,520
Speaker 1: thick Williams right into these moments that we've seen that

2580
02:13:12,760 --> 02:13:17,160
Speaker 1: on a national stage, international stage, really with Otani, the

2581
02:13:17,320 --> 02:13:20,080
Speaker 1: fact that the Dodgers made it possible, so like we

2582
02:13:20,120 --> 02:13:22,440
Speaker 1: should all be thankful if you're a baseball fan, you

2583
02:13:22,480 --> 02:13:26,240
Speaker 1: should be thankful for the Dodgers spending these you know, ludicrous,

2584
02:13:26,280 --> 02:13:27,760
Speaker 1: outrageous contracts.

2585
02:13:27,320 --> 02:13:29,880
Speaker 2: And is any any you know, first thing he does

2586
02:13:29,960 --> 02:13:32,360
Speaker 2: as a Dodgers something nobody's ever done before a fifty

2587
02:13:32,360 --> 02:13:35,320
Speaker 2: to fifty season, and it's something nobody knew that Otani

2588
02:13:35,440 --> 02:13:37,120
Speaker 2: was going to. Oh, you're going to steal bases.

2589
02:13:37,000 --> 02:13:40,800
Speaker 1: Right, which doesn't go for if he's pitching, But because

2590
02:13:40,840 --> 02:13:43,320
Speaker 1: he's out for the year as a pitcher because of

2591
02:13:43,400 --> 02:13:45,640
Speaker 1: his shoulder injury, he's like, hey, why not go for

2592
02:13:45,720 --> 02:13:49,680
Speaker 1: fifty to fifty? You know, I'm sure on his to

2593
02:13:49,840 --> 02:13:52,200
Speaker 1: do list is win Cy Young and MVP the same year,

2594
02:13:52,280 --> 02:13:55,040
Speaker 1: you know, as a true baseball MVP, you.

2595
02:13:55,040 --> 02:13:58,280
Speaker 2: Know, like not winning like Clinton Clinton Kershaw has won

2596
02:13:58,360 --> 02:13:59,440
Speaker 2: both a SION and an MVP.

2597
02:13:59,560 --> 02:14:01,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, as the same it's strictly for his pitching, right,

2598
02:14:02,120 --> 02:14:05,240
Speaker 1: Like Otani could do it like winning the Cy Young

2599
02:14:05,720 --> 02:14:07,760
Speaker 1: and also winning that, it'd be like alsome. You know,

2600
02:14:07,840 --> 02:14:10,600
Speaker 1: he's MVP the league. He's like you know, in some cases,

2601
02:14:10,600 --> 02:14:13,560
Speaker 1: like with Curse, I like, oh, you know, he's the MVP,

2602
02:14:13,720 --> 02:14:15,840
Speaker 1: is the most valuable because he's that good of a picture.

2603
02:14:16,000 --> 02:14:17,640
Speaker 2: I could be on both sides of that argument about

2604
02:14:17,640 --> 02:14:19,520
Speaker 2: whether pictures should be eligible for the MVP or not.

2605
02:14:20,360 --> 02:14:22,080
Speaker 2: I think you have your own award.

2606
02:14:21,920 --> 02:14:25,320
Speaker 1: Right you picture, If you're the most valuable, you know.

2607
02:14:25,400 --> 02:14:27,440
Speaker 2: Then we need to have a separate hitter award if

2608
02:14:27,440 --> 02:14:28,040
Speaker 2: you're going to do that.

2609
02:14:28,160 --> 02:14:29,840
Speaker 1: I just think in some cases the picture is the

2610
02:14:29,880 --> 02:14:32,520
Speaker 1: most but like the batters have more opportunity, more valuble

2611
02:14:32,520 --> 02:14:35,600
Speaker 1: because they're playing more often. But sometimes the picture is

2612
02:14:35,640 --> 02:14:38,480
Speaker 1: the most valuable, like you single handly drag your team,

2613
02:14:38,560 --> 02:14:43,200
Speaker 1: like just like you know, Paul our Sauser was the

2614
02:14:43,320 --> 02:14:46,760
Speaker 1: most valuable player for the Divers down that stretch through

2615
02:14:46,840 --> 02:14:52,240
Speaker 1: his pitching in eighty eight. Well, in some ways, the the.

2616
02:14:53,880 --> 02:14:57,680
Speaker 2: So nomo is this is the bridge between sort of

2617
02:14:58,720 --> 02:15:02,840
Speaker 2: the eighties Dodgers and the Dodgers we know today, Right,

2618
02:15:02,960 --> 02:15:05,280
Speaker 2: if you would be on the field, he I guess

2619
02:15:05,360 --> 02:15:07,640
Speaker 2: maybe you'd throw Mike Piazza in there as sort of

2620
02:15:07,720 --> 02:15:09,600
Speaker 2: a bridge person, ya, Eric Hills.

2621
02:15:09,760 --> 02:15:11,880
Speaker 1: So they also continue this might be a good time

2622
02:15:11,960 --> 02:15:13,840
Speaker 1: to talk about just that Rookie of the Years. Yeah,

2623
02:15:13,920 --> 02:15:15,960
Speaker 1: the run of Rookie of the Years where I think

2624
02:15:15,960 --> 02:15:18,040
Speaker 1: they had Foster Rookie of the Years in there.

2625
02:15:18,280 --> 02:15:21,480
Speaker 2: They went seventies to the eighty well culminating with the

2626
02:15:21,680 --> 02:15:24,520
Speaker 2: year after Fernando was was that the Rick Steve Sacks

2627
02:15:24,600 --> 02:15:28,760
Speaker 2: was eighty two. Maybe Rick Suckcliffe was eighty earlier than that,

2628
02:15:28,960 --> 02:15:29,560
Speaker 2: or was Cuckcliff?

2629
02:15:30,160 --> 02:15:33,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway where and then they have forced You've got

2630
02:15:33,960 --> 02:15:39,640
Speaker 1: like Eric Carroll's Piazza and you got another run you know,

2631
02:15:39,840 --> 02:15:43,160
Speaker 1: in the nineties too, so it's kind of the the

2632
02:15:43,640 --> 02:15:44,720
Speaker 1: the end of that era.

2633
02:15:46,720 --> 02:15:48,600
Speaker 2: But those that string of rookies, so if you think

2634
02:15:48,600 --> 02:15:51,720
Speaker 2: about it, right, they have these incredible the farm system

2635
02:15:51,720 --> 02:15:54,920
Speaker 2: produces these incredible players in the seventies that do produce

2636
02:15:54,960 --> 02:15:57,960
Speaker 2: two World Series winners right in the eighties they get this,

2637
02:15:58,320 --> 02:16:01,760
Speaker 2: they have another run in the in the nineties, and

2638
02:16:01,880 --> 02:16:04,760
Speaker 2: those guys they don't quite get them there, They don't

2639
02:16:04,800 --> 02:16:07,400
Speaker 2: get them all the way there, right, they don't get them.

2640
02:16:07,960 --> 02:16:08,240
Speaker 1: You have.

2641
02:16:09,960 --> 02:16:16,640
Speaker 2: Caros Piazza, Raoul Mandasi and Nomo hollands Worth one, two, three,

2642
02:16:16,680 --> 02:16:19,040
Speaker 2: four five. It was five in a row, Todd hollins Worth,

2643
02:16:19,560 --> 02:16:21,480
Speaker 2: that's the one you forgetting. Yeah, that's the way you

2644
02:16:21,520 --> 02:16:23,920
Speaker 2: forget ninety six. But those five in a row, I

2645
02:16:23,960 --> 02:16:25,960
Speaker 2: think the assumption was, I know, as a Dodger fan

2646
02:16:26,040 --> 02:16:27,760
Speaker 2: in the nineties, I thought, this's like, when is this

2647
02:16:27,800 --> 02:16:29,320
Speaker 2: team going to win the whole thing? When is this

2648
02:16:29,400 --> 02:16:30,680
Speaker 2: team going to take the next step?

2649
02:16:31,040 --> 02:16:33,560
Speaker 1: And they were all this. This team seemed to streusstead

2650
02:16:33,560 --> 02:16:35,440
Speaker 1: They go on and on their that you know, since

2651
02:16:35,480 --> 02:16:38,039
Speaker 1: that Kirk Gibson moment in that eighty eight World Series, yea,

2652
02:16:38,280 --> 02:16:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, they just struggle to duplicate it. I would

2653
02:16:41,080 --> 02:16:43,760
Speaker 1: say the Nomo signing was the last legacy moment for

2654
02:16:43,800 --> 02:16:46,960
Speaker 1: the O'Malley family. So you know, Peter had taken over

2655
02:16:47,240 --> 02:16:49,880
Speaker 1: from his father in nineteen seventy nine two World Series

2656
02:16:49,959 --> 02:16:54,720
Speaker 1: during his tenure the explosion, So it's interesting what makes

2657
02:16:54,760 --> 02:16:57,600
Speaker 1: them sell in the end of the O'Malley ownership era

2658
02:16:57,920 --> 02:17:01,480
Speaker 1: is they become too valuable and it was tax law, yes, yeah,

2659
02:17:01,520 --> 02:17:03,440
Speaker 1: because he's afraid he wouldn't be able to pass along

2660
02:17:03,480 --> 02:17:05,480
Speaker 1: with his kids. So they were worth two million dollars

2661
02:17:05,680 --> 02:17:09,280
Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixty they were valued at or they

2662
02:17:09,320 --> 02:17:11,640
Speaker 1: wound up being sold in nineteen ninety eight for three

2663
02:17:11,760 --> 02:17:13,720
Speaker 1: hundred and eleven million dollars. It's a lot of attacks

2664
02:17:13,920 --> 02:17:18,280
Speaker 1: that Fox Company brought buys him and things starts a change.

2665
02:17:18,360 --> 02:17:20,959
Speaker 1: So the Dodgers had had two managers from nineteen fifty

2666
02:17:21,000 --> 02:17:23,600
Speaker 1: four to nineteen ninety six Walter Alston and time of Lesorda.

2667
02:17:24,080 --> 02:17:26,119
Speaker 1: After the sale of the Fox, they fired Bill Russell

2668
02:17:26,120 --> 02:17:28,360
Speaker 1: in the second year. The franchise went through six managers

2669
02:17:28,400 --> 02:17:31,480
Speaker 1: in eighteen years. Over the next eighteen years, they traded

2670
02:17:31,520 --> 02:17:34,720
Speaker 1: the team's most popular player, Mike Piazza, who was you

2671
02:17:34,800 --> 02:17:37,720
Speaker 1: know this this beloved member of the Dodgers drafted in

2672
02:17:37,840 --> 02:17:39,200
Speaker 1: the sixty second round.

2673
02:17:39,320 --> 02:17:41,400
Speaker 2: Well, and he had he was a connection to Tommy, Yeah,

2674
02:17:41,440 --> 02:17:43,640
Speaker 2: because it was the family. It was a family friend

2675
02:17:43,680 --> 02:17:47,280
Speaker 2: of tom God said, He's like, sure, draft him back and.

2676
02:17:47,320 --> 02:17:49,560
Speaker 1: Then becomes this just you know, one of the great

2677
02:17:49,720 --> 02:17:51,400
Speaker 1: power hitting catchers of all time.

2678
02:17:52,160 --> 02:17:55,039
Speaker 2: Right, he's a bit bitter. There's a little bitterness still

2679
02:17:55,040 --> 02:17:57,840
Speaker 2: with peoples because he he doesn't feel like his career

2680
02:17:58,280 --> 02:18:01,480
Speaker 2: is respected enough because it always had a look, look,

2681
02:18:01,680 --> 02:18:05,440
Speaker 2: every success story in the nineties has the cloud. There's

2682
02:18:05,480 --> 02:18:09,120
Speaker 2: that cloud cloud sits over you on that fair unfair.

2683
02:18:09,360 --> 02:18:11,480
Speaker 2: It is about the only person that the cloud is

2684
02:18:11,520 --> 02:18:12,000
Speaker 2: not there.

2685
02:18:11,879 --> 02:18:16,320
Speaker 1: For the night. But also Piazza should have been a

2686
02:18:16,879 --> 02:18:18,760
Speaker 1: beloved It should have been a Dodger. They just kind

2687
02:18:18,760 --> 02:18:20,080
Speaker 1: of trade them overnight.

2688
02:18:20,959 --> 02:18:22,400
Speaker 2: You know, if you talk to Mets fans, they would

2689
02:18:22,480 --> 02:18:24,960
Speaker 2: argue Piazza is one of their most iconic guys.

2690
02:18:25,080 --> 02:18:26,360
Speaker 1: Well, I mean because he meant a lot to.

2691
02:18:26,400 --> 02:18:29,800
Speaker 2: Them, and especially in that post, you know, nine to eleven.

2692
02:18:30,400 --> 02:18:32,000
Speaker 1: That was an important moment. And then what you did

2693
02:18:32,040 --> 02:18:33,200
Speaker 1: for them that moment's there.

2694
02:18:33,760 --> 02:18:37,280
Speaker 2: So this is, by the way, an interesting period with

2695
02:18:37,480 --> 02:18:40,720
Speaker 2: media companies and sports, yes, because you have Disney and

2696
02:18:40,840 --> 02:18:44,120
Speaker 2: the Anaheim Mighty. Literally they invent a franchise out of

2697
02:18:44,160 --> 02:18:46,840
Speaker 2: a movie, right, the Anaheim Mighty Ducks, and.

2698
02:18:46,879 --> 02:18:49,480
Speaker 1: Then they buy the Angels, right, you know from Gene Autry,

2699
02:18:49,560 --> 02:18:49,760
Speaker 1: you know.

2700
02:18:49,800 --> 02:18:53,760
Speaker 2: Beloved country music figure, right, and then the Fox decides

2701
02:18:53,760 --> 02:18:54,440
Speaker 2: to buy the Dodgers.

2702
02:18:54,440 --> 02:18:56,360
Speaker 1: Do you think what's going on here? So it's a medium,

2703
02:18:56,480 --> 02:19:01,240
Speaker 1: so it's interesting, but it fails really quickly. It's companies realized.

2704
02:19:01,000 --> 02:19:03,120
Speaker 2: The time Warner merger, maybe this isn't a good idea.

2705
02:19:03,320 --> 02:19:06,640
Speaker 1: So Disney had hoped to create their own regional sports

2706
02:19:06,640 --> 02:19:09,760
Speaker 1: and they were going to create a Disney Sports West basically,

2707
02:19:10,760 --> 02:19:12,640
Speaker 1: and then then never got off the ground, and so

2708
02:19:12,760 --> 02:19:15,000
Speaker 1: they wind up bailing on the Ducks and the and

2709
02:19:15,080 --> 02:19:16,800
Speaker 1: the Angels, and then you.

2710
02:19:16,840 --> 02:19:19,720
Speaker 2: Know Fox, they were thinking that the Dodgers as content yep,

2711
02:19:19,879 --> 02:19:21,080
Speaker 2: you know, and they were thinking of the same thing.

2712
02:19:21,160 --> 02:19:24,000
Speaker 2: Yea Gaking built something and they had they already had

2713
02:19:24,280 --> 02:19:25,920
Speaker 2: the uh, the the the.

2714
02:19:27,160 --> 02:19:29,160
Speaker 1: The regional sports networks in the place, you know, the

2715
02:19:29,200 --> 02:19:32,119
Speaker 1: Fox Sports West, Fox Sports West two. Uh. The problem

2716
02:19:32,280 --> 02:19:34,840
Speaker 1: was they didn't run the Dodgers well and they just

2717
02:19:34,920 --> 02:19:37,760
Speaker 1: came along in a time when the contracts were exploding

2718
02:19:38,480 --> 02:19:41,240
Speaker 1: and the Dodgers became a losing proposition for them. They

2719
02:19:41,240 --> 02:19:43,240
Speaker 1: couldn't wait to sell them. So kind of one of

2720
02:19:43,320 --> 02:19:46,800
Speaker 1: my favorite moments. Uh, this kind of just shows the boxization.

2721
02:19:47,000 --> 02:19:49,680
Speaker 1: So they brought in Bob Graziano, who's a former countant,

2722
02:19:49,959 --> 02:19:52,000
Speaker 1: made him the president CEO, and then later they bring

2723
02:19:52,080 --> 02:19:54,840
Speaker 1: in Bob Daily from Warner Brothers make him the chairman

2724
02:19:54,840 --> 02:19:56,960
Speaker 1: of the CBO. So I used to call them corporate

2725
02:19:57,000 --> 02:20:01,360
Speaker 1: Bob and show biz Bob in print. Yeah, I refer

2726
02:20:01,440 --> 02:20:03,200
Speaker 1: to them in the La Times the corporate Bob and

2727
02:20:03,240 --> 02:20:05,320
Speaker 1: shows Pop. But like it felt like it had nothing

2728
02:20:05,360 --> 02:20:08,800
Speaker 1: to do with baseball, right, and it was pretty clear. Yeah,

2729
02:20:08,800 --> 02:20:10,920
Speaker 1: I felt like, yeah, you know, they throw out one

2730
02:20:10,959 --> 02:20:13,480
Speaker 1: hundred five million dollar contract to Kevin Brown the picture

2731
02:20:13,560 --> 02:20:15,560
Speaker 1: that include a personal use of the team Jets, so

2732
02:20:15,640 --> 02:20:17,360
Speaker 1: he could go back and forth to Georgia when he

2733
02:20:17,440 --> 02:20:21,600
Speaker 1: wanted they fired Davy Johnson's manager. But like they said, well,

2734
02:20:21,640 --> 02:20:23,400
Speaker 1: we'll hold off till when you want to leave. But

2735
02:20:23,480 --> 02:20:27,920
Speaker 1: the word gets out, so they're they're losing. They can't

2736
02:20:27,920 --> 02:20:30,800
Speaker 1: wait to sell the team. So they're so desperate that

2737
02:20:30,920 --> 02:20:33,360
Speaker 1: they sold the team to frame m Court. Well, but

2738
02:20:33,520 --> 02:20:37,920
Speaker 1: based literally they borrow money right them. Court said they

2739
02:20:37,920 --> 02:20:41,280
Speaker 1: didn't if the Courts didn't have the money to purchase

2740
02:20:41,360 --> 02:20:44,160
Speaker 1: them box seat alone. In my chuck, if you're selling

2741
02:20:44,200 --> 02:20:46,039
Speaker 1: me a house, but I got to borrow money from

2742
02:20:46,040 --> 02:20:49,320
Speaker 1: you to buy your house, would you sign off on that?

2743
02:20:50,120 --> 02:20:52,560
Speaker 2: I know if I were on the other side of it,

2744
02:20:52,640 --> 02:20:54,960
Speaker 2: I would like that be a hell of a deal.

2745
02:20:55,200 --> 02:20:58,519
Speaker 1: So the McCord, who had made his money in parking lots.

2746
02:20:58,600 --> 02:21:00,840
Speaker 2: Oh, this is where by you had an old colleague

2747
02:21:00,879 --> 02:21:01,240
Speaker 2: named T. J.

2748
02:21:01,360 --> 02:21:04,320
Speaker 1: Sneimer park a lot of tender and he used to

2749
02:21:04,520 --> 02:21:06,879
Speaker 1: just refer to them Courts as the parking lot attendant

2750
02:21:06,959 --> 02:21:08,760
Speaker 1: and as a Dodger fan at the time, it was

2751
02:21:08,879 --> 02:21:12,199
Speaker 1: angry at the Dodgers' lack of spending and stuff.

2752
02:21:13,320 --> 02:21:15,080
Speaker 2: He sometimes spoke for the angry fan.

2753
02:21:15,160 --> 02:21:17,959
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, there was another guy in town, raider guy McDonald,

2754
02:21:18,000 --> 02:21:20,120
Speaker 1: who would call mccortm mac bankrupt because he was like,

2755
02:21:20,160 --> 02:21:22,680
Speaker 1: he didn't have the money, and it turned out didn't the.

2756
02:21:22,640 --> 02:21:24,400
Speaker 2: Dodgers with bankrupt at least. So by the way, for

2757
02:21:24,440 --> 02:21:27,880
Speaker 2: the mc courts, it was a great deal they made any.

2758
02:21:27,600 --> 02:21:30,000
Speaker 1: Money, yeah, because they borrowed two hundred million dollars for

2759
02:21:30,080 --> 02:21:35,039
Speaker 1: the purchase price of four hundred million dollars. So you know.

2760
02:21:37,640 --> 02:21:39,879
Speaker 2: A lot of those sideways when mcorts.

2761
02:21:39,560 --> 02:21:42,400
Speaker 1: Get divorced and a lot comes out about the Labbas

2762
02:21:42,480 --> 02:21:44,560
Speaker 1: lifestyles of liming, like they're they're and they're using the

2763
02:21:44,640 --> 02:21:46,880
Speaker 1: Dodgers to help Fundi's labast lifestyle. They buy a house

2764
02:21:46,959 --> 02:21:50,840
Speaker 1: in Malibu. You know, they have somebody that.

2765
02:21:50,879 --> 02:21:53,640
Speaker 2: By the way, in politics that we have politicians sometimes

2766
02:21:53,640 --> 02:21:56,320
Speaker 2: do the same thing. They use the money they raise

2767
02:21:56,800 --> 02:22:00,160
Speaker 2: and they use that money to fund their lifestyle, not

2768
02:22:00,320 --> 02:22:04,280
Speaker 2: their actual Yeah, and that's illegal and scandalous. Here it was,

2769
02:22:04,520 --> 02:22:08,560
Speaker 2: I guess legal, but it was scandalous, right, So.

2770
02:22:09,920 --> 02:22:12,440
Speaker 1: The most outrageous thing it wasn't the most expensive, but

2771
02:22:12,480 --> 02:22:14,640
Speaker 1: the most outrageous day. They had someone on a six

2772
02:22:14,720 --> 02:22:18,680
Speaker 1: figure retainer, someone in Boston, back in Boston, which is

2773
02:22:18,680 --> 02:22:21,760
Speaker 1: where they came from, and his role was to send

2774
02:22:22,280 --> 02:22:26,120
Speaker 1: good vibes to the Dodgers telepathically from Boston, and they're

2775
02:22:26,160 --> 02:22:28,240
Speaker 1: paying them over hundred thousand dollars a year to just

2776
02:22:28,640 --> 02:22:31,959
Speaker 1: send positive vibes out to the team from across the cup.

2777
02:22:32,040 --> 02:22:35,080
Speaker 2: Well, they did make a couple. McCourt can say that

2778
02:22:35,320 --> 02:22:37,959
Speaker 2: on the field, he left the team in fairly good ship.

2779
02:22:39,320 --> 02:22:42,080
Speaker 1: Somewhat. They I mean, ye had back camp some players

2780
02:22:42,120 --> 02:22:45,400
Speaker 1: that did well. They made a couple nlcs. Yeah, they won,

2781
02:22:46,360 --> 02:22:49,800
Speaker 1: They reached the playoffs, so they won. In the first

2782
02:22:49,879 --> 02:22:53,640
Speaker 1: nineteen seasons after winning the eighty World Series, the Dodgers

2783
02:22:53,680 --> 02:22:56,520
Speaker 1: only reached the plaoffs four times, a single playoff game

2784
02:22:56,920 --> 02:22:59,200
Speaker 1: rest in Peace. Jose Lima a time was a winning

2785
02:22:59,240 --> 02:23:04,240
Speaker 1: pitcher in that So the attendance numbers looked similar because

2786
02:23:04,440 --> 02:23:06,680
Speaker 1: people kept their season tickets. They weren't going to the game, no,

2787
02:23:07,160 --> 02:23:09,760
Speaker 1: and like you you could just cruise on in. And

2788
02:23:09,840 --> 02:23:11,920
Speaker 1: now we talked about parking lots of Dodgers saying like

2789
02:23:12,000 --> 02:23:15,320
Speaker 1: they were empty and there was nobody going to the games.

2790
02:23:15,959 --> 02:23:17,920
Speaker 2: When the Lakers took over LA for a while. Yeah,

2791
02:23:18,040 --> 02:23:20,400
Speaker 2: so when you say LA was a Laker time, more than.

2792
02:23:20,320 --> 02:23:23,760
Speaker 1: Absolutely because again, so both the Lakers and the Dodgers

2793
02:23:23,800 --> 02:23:26,560
Speaker 1: winning eighty eight, and it felt like the Lakers may

2794
02:23:26,640 --> 02:23:28,920
Speaker 1: be kind of pulled even. But then, yeah, the Dodgers

2795
02:23:28,959 --> 02:23:31,680
Speaker 1: fall off, and then Kobe and Shad come to the Lakers,

2796
02:23:31,720 --> 02:23:34,359
Speaker 1: and then they're winning five championships in the two thousands,

2797
02:23:34,840 --> 02:23:37,760
Speaker 1: and the Dodgers again are have this long drought without

2798
02:23:37,760 --> 02:23:41,280
Speaker 1: winning playoff series. So but sealing forces the team to

2799
02:23:41,320 --> 02:23:43,800
Speaker 1: So it's funny. McCourt thought he had a lifeline, he

2800
02:23:43,920 --> 02:23:47,680
Speaker 1: had a he had a yeah, like three billion dollars

2801
02:23:47,879 --> 02:23:50,680
Speaker 1: for seventeen years. But of course like, yeah, no, it

2802
02:23:50,760 --> 02:23:54,880
Speaker 1: was leveraged up. Yeah, it's like, you guys aren't making

2803
02:23:54,959 --> 02:23:57,560
Speaker 1: paybroll right now, you're struggling to make payroll. Like, no,

2804
02:23:57,800 --> 02:24:00,600
Speaker 1: you don't have the right to sign this deal divorce.

2805
02:24:00,879 --> 02:24:03,119
Speaker 2: He had to sell the team in order to fulfill

2806
02:24:03,200 --> 02:24:06,000
Speaker 2: the divorce proceed and part.

2807
02:24:05,800 --> 02:24:07,320
Speaker 1: Of the problem was, like half the money we're gone

2808
02:24:07,360 --> 02:24:10,680
Speaker 1: directly to McCort, not to the Dodgers. So celig Nix

2809
02:24:10,800 --> 02:24:11,160
Speaker 1: is the deal.

2810
02:24:12,600 --> 02:24:15,280
Speaker 2: The Dodgers go single now might be the single most

2811
02:24:15,320 --> 02:24:19,680
Speaker 2: important moment in making the Dodgers a dynastic Yeah, because

2812
02:24:19,800 --> 02:24:21,120
Speaker 2: it's bankruptcy and.

2813
02:24:21,720 --> 02:24:25,080
Speaker 1: It took control out of the hands of the Dodgers

2814
02:24:25,160 --> 02:24:27,560
Speaker 1: in the McCort and now it goes through the bankrupt

2815
02:24:28,080 --> 02:24:33,320
Speaker 1: court and MLB has final say. And so yeah, in

2816
02:24:33,440 --> 02:24:35,279
Speaker 1: comes with Walter and Google and IM.

2817
02:24:35,200 --> 02:24:37,600
Speaker 2: And I'm going to rant a second here on budd Selig.

2818
02:24:37,680 --> 02:24:38,599
Speaker 1: So bud Selig.

2819
02:24:39,800 --> 02:24:42,960
Speaker 2: At first was obsessed with always finding family owners He

2820
02:24:43,080 --> 02:24:46,840
Speaker 2: did this he never wanted He didn't want these big partnerships.

2821
02:24:46,879 --> 02:24:50,560
Speaker 2: He he worried it would fuel free agent spending. He

2822
02:24:50,879 --> 02:24:54,360
Speaker 2: was a family owned brewers, and so he was always

2823
02:24:54,440 --> 02:24:57,879
Speaker 2: constantly looking for ownership groups. I know this because he lobbied.

2824
02:24:58,440 --> 02:25:00,880
Speaker 2: He wanted the mccurt to take This happened with the

2825
02:25:00,959 --> 02:25:04,879
Speaker 2: Nationals when they moved the expost. There were two competing groups.

2826
02:25:05,040 --> 02:25:07,960
Speaker 2: One had more money, but it was a partnership. It

2827
02:25:08,080 --> 02:25:10,000
Speaker 2: was a couple of managing partners, by the way, very

2828
02:25:10,040 --> 02:25:13,279
Speaker 2: similar to what the Dodgers ownership structure now looks like today.

2829
02:25:13,680 --> 02:25:16,840
Speaker 2: This was one idea. The other was a family real

2830
02:25:16,959 --> 02:25:19,080
Speaker 2: estate empire, but it was family.

2831
02:25:19,720 --> 02:25:19,920
Speaker 1: Well.

2832
02:25:20,240 --> 02:25:23,240
Speaker 2: They didn't have quite as much money, but they had enough.

2833
02:25:23,920 --> 02:25:27,000
Speaker 2: And cause Celig always was looking for he wanted family

2834
02:25:27,200 --> 02:25:30,360
Speaker 2: owned teams because he thought it would It was essentially

2835
02:25:30,440 --> 02:25:34,680
Speaker 2: a way to restrict spending without formally trying to restrict spending.

2836
02:25:35,600 --> 02:25:37,959
Speaker 2: The MC court thing is such a disaster. Selig finally

2837
02:25:38,000 --> 02:25:41,480
Speaker 2: gives up on that and allows what we now have today.

2838
02:25:41,520 --> 02:25:43,520
Speaker 2: And now what I think sports ownership is going to

2839
02:25:43,560 --> 02:25:47,560
Speaker 2: be all over the country, which is these massive sort

2840
02:25:47,600 --> 02:25:52,760
Speaker 2: of private equity partnerships, sovereign wealth funds, all sorts of things.

2841
02:25:52,840 --> 02:25:55,720
Speaker 2: But in some ways CELIG was trying to prevent this.

2842
02:25:56,520 --> 02:25:59,720
Speaker 2: It went so bad with the MC courts that it

2843
02:25:59,760 --> 02:26:02,240
Speaker 2: opened into the door to the modern ownership structures we're

2844
02:26:02,240 --> 02:26:02,720
Speaker 2: saying today.

2845
02:26:02,840 --> 02:26:07,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, so an inadvertent way that the Dodgers become another

2846
02:26:07,240 --> 02:26:10,840
Speaker 1: Baron Laker here in barrier breakers here, I would argue,

2847
02:26:11,800 --> 02:26:13,840
Speaker 1: I mean, certainly Dodger fans will tell you this is

2848
02:26:13,920 --> 02:26:16,080
Speaker 1: being good for them, but I think it's good for

2849
02:26:16,160 --> 02:26:18,680
Speaker 1: the sport. Again, the fact that we get to see

2850
02:26:18,760 --> 02:26:22,080
Speaker 1: Shoho Tani in the playoffs, in the postseason, on this

2851
02:26:22,240 --> 02:26:26,480
Speaker 1: national stage perform putting out some historic performances, right and then,

2852
02:26:27,640 --> 02:26:31,920
Speaker 1: but also the fact that they almost locked within inches

2853
02:26:32,040 --> 02:26:34,680
Speaker 1: and single pitches here of losing the Blue Days. So

2854
02:26:34,760 --> 02:26:36,959
Speaker 1: it's not like the Dodgers are just walking their way

2855
02:26:37,000 --> 02:26:37,440
Speaker 1: too Well.

2856
02:26:37,640 --> 02:26:40,440
Speaker 2: That's the beauty of baseball, right, is it the randomness

2857
02:26:40,480 --> 02:26:44,560
Speaker 2: of baseball at times allows for an underdog to win

2858
02:26:44,959 --> 02:26:48,720
Speaker 2: a game in any given moment see Team Venezuela, Team USA,

2859
02:26:49,959 --> 02:26:51,880
Speaker 2: or even a serious You know, it's harder to do

2860
02:26:52,000 --> 02:26:54,480
Speaker 2: that in football. It's hard to do that in basketball.

2861
02:26:54,720 --> 02:26:56,840
Speaker 2: But it's interesting you say that that the Dodgers. That

2862
02:26:56,959 --> 02:27:00,400
Speaker 2: might be good for the game, because here's your Is

2863
02:27:01,160 --> 02:27:04,440
Speaker 2: it good for your sport if you run football, baseball,

2864
02:27:04,520 --> 02:27:07,080
Speaker 2: or basketball or hockey right, any of these major sports

2865
02:27:07,160 --> 02:27:09,720
Speaker 2: or soccer if you have two or three teams dominating

2866
02:27:09,959 --> 02:27:12,560
Speaker 2: that are dynasties, or that you have a level playing

2867
02:27:12,600 --> 02:27:16,480
Speaker 2: field every year. So I've argued this with a silver

2868
02:27:16,600 --> 02:27:19,119
Speaker 2: that the NBA the peak of the NBA.

2869
02:27:19,560 --> 02:27:21,240
Speaker 1: If you have funess with the NBA in the eighties

2870
02:27:21,280 --> 02:27:23,440
Speaker 1: and nineties, yeah, well in the eighties and Lakers in

2871
02:27:23,480 --> 02:27:27,400
Speaker 1: the Celtics in the nineties literally from ninety one to

2872
02:27:27,560 --> 02:27:30,480
Speaker 1: ninety eight, it was literally the Bulls with the rehiatus

2873
02:27:30,760 --> 02:27:33,880
Speaker 1: when the Rockets won too, So you know it, it

2874
02:27:33,959 --> 02:27:37,280
Speaker 1: was extremely top heavy and not open to all. And

2875
02:27:38,920 --> 02:27:40,640
Speaker 1: you know what we have now in the NBA is

2876
02:27:40,680 --> 02:27:42,280
Speaker 1: we've had a different champion like each of like the

2877
02:27:42,360 --> 02:27:45,040
Speaker 1: last seven years. I don't think you can say this

2878
02:27:45,160 --> 02:27:46,720
Speaker 1: is a golden era of NBA basketball.

2879
02:27:46,920 --> 02:27:48,760
Speaker 2: Well, I always talk about this is what makes the

2880
02:27:48,879 --> 02:27:51,560
Speaker 2: NFL unique. The NFL has pulled this off. And I

2881
02:27:51,600 --> 02:27:53,800
Speaker 2: always use the example of the twenty fourteen World Series.

2882
02:27:54,120 --> 02:27:58,360
Speaker 2: Twenty fourteen World Series was between San Francisco Giants in

2883
02:27:58,400 --> 02:28:01,039
Speaker 2: the Kansas City Royals, one of the lowest radero boat

2884
02:28:01,080 --> 02:28:04,360
Speaker 2: series ever. We've had a Super Bowl in the last

2885
02:28:04,440 --> 02:28:06,520
Speaker 2: ten years between the San Francisco forty nine ers and

2886
02:28:06,520 --> 02:28:11,160
Speaker 2: the Kansas City Chiefs. Entirely different spectacle, right, you know,

2887
02:28:11,840 --> 02:28:15,040
Speaker 2: literally the same two markets. Okay, just two different sports

2888
02:28:15,120 --> 02:28:16,560
Speaker 2: and just sort of how Now, part of that is

2889
02:28:16,600 --> 02:28:17,520
Speaker 2: baseball's very local.

2890
02:28:17,800 --> 02:28:19,320
Speaker 1: It's popular locally.

2891
02:28:19,160 --> 02:28:23,040
Speaker 2: And other than and the only teams you follow outside

2892
02:28:23,080 --> 02:28:25,440
Speaker 2: of your own are the super teams. And that's why

2893
02:28:25,480 --> 02:28:27,040
Speaker 2: in a weird way, and I think basketball is the

2894
02:28:27,040 --> 02:28:29,879
Speaker 2: same way you follow your local team plus the super teams,

2895
02:28:30,560 --> 02:28:34,960
Speaker 2: and I think with football it's just it's just different.

2896
02:28:35,680 --> 02:28:37,600
Speaker 1: So one of the things that is interesting because the

2897
02:28:37,760 --> 02:28:42,120
Speaker 1: terms of the TV deal and when the Dodgers took over,

2898
02:28:43,400 --> 02:28:46,480
Speaker 1: it was going through bankruptcy court and not Major League Baseball,

2899
02:28:48,520 --> 02:28:51,320
Speaker 1: It's a different revenue share than it would be otherwise.

2900
02:28:52,200 --> 02:28:55,520
Speaker 1: So it's based on a fixed amount currently said on

2901
02:28:55,560 --> 02:28:57,400
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty million dollars. That's the amount that

2902
02:28:57,680 --> 02:29:00,560
Speaker 1: is eligible for the revenue sharing portion. Even though the

2903
02:29:00,600 --> 02:29:02,400
Speaker 1: deal is currently worth three hundred and thirty million dollars

2904
02:29:02,400 --> 02:29:03,840
Speaker 1: a year, it could go up to five hundred million

2905
02:29:03,840 --> 02:29:07,000
Speaker 1: dollars a year. So the Dodgers can thank Frank McCord

2906
02:29:07,040 --> 02:29:08,400
Speaker 1: in some ways for sending this up.

2907
02:29:08,440 --> 02:29:11,000
Speaker 2: They have a better deal, and yeah, they're sharing less

2908
02:29:11,040 --> 02:29:13,560
Speaker 2: revenue than they should. Well, let's just say if they

2909
02:29:15,760 --> 02:29:19,080
Speaker 2: the Baseball Players Union is paying attention. Yeah, and this

2910
02:29:19,280 --> 02:29:20,800
Speaker 2: is going to be a unique you know, we're not

2911
02:29:20,840 --> 02:29:23,120
Speaker 2: going to get into that in this episode, but this

2912
02:29:23,160 --> 02:29:24,160
Speaker 2: is going to be a unique challenge.

2913
02:29:24,200 --> 02:29:26,200
Speaker 1: So even with that, so let's look at kind of

2914
02:29:26,240 --> 02:29:28,760
Speaker 1: the modern Dodgers. Now, the twenty five to five payroll

2915
02:29:28,840 --> 02:29:30,640
Speaker 1: was almost born to million dollars, one hundred and sixty

2916
02:29:30,720 --> 02:29:32,080
Speaker 1: nine million dollars luxury tach.

2917
02:29:32,080 --> 02:29:34,880
Speaker 2: Okay, just think about that. Put a pin in that

2918
02:29:34,920 --> 02:29:38,480
Speaker 2: because you just how much did Piero Maalley sell they

2919
02:29:38,560 --> 02:29:41,080
Speaker 2: Dodgers for two hundred right?

2920
02:29:41,360 --> 02:29:42,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, think about it.

2921
02:29:42,200 --> 02:29:44,280
Speaker 2: So the payroll of the Dodgers in twenty twenty five

2922
02:29:45,160 --> 02:29:46,920
Speaker 2: just the payroll for that one year through three hundred

2923
02:29:46,920 --> 02:29:49,520
Speaker 2: I think, and they were sold is more for four hundred, right,

2924
02:29:49,720 --> 02:29:52,920
Speaker 2: is more than what they sold for in nineteen n

2925
02:29:53,240 --> 02:29:56,680
Speaker 2: about what mc court paid for the bottom seventy.

2926
02:29:56,400 --> 02:30:02,160
Speaker 1: Half of it. The Dodgers of the warning side, they

2927
02:30:02,240 --> 02:30:05,080
Speaker 1: have more than a billion dollars in deferred salaries going

2928
02:30:05,120 --> 02:30:06,080
Speaker 1: into the twenty forties.

2929
02:30:07,480 --> 02:30:10,480
Speaker 2: Sorry, if the United States government can handle thirty nine

2930
02:30:10,520 --> 02:30:12,760
Speaker 2: trillion dollars in debt, maybe the Dodgers can handle them.

2931
02:30:12,920 --> 02:30:16,560
Speaker 1: But will the will the regional sports network model even

2932
02:30:16,720 --> 02:30:19,840
Speaker 1: exist by the twenty forties exists by the end of

2933
02:30:19,920 --> 02:30:23,720
Speaker 1: this podcast? Yeah, what will the national TV deals? Said? So,

2934
02:30:23,800 --> 02:30:26,760
Speaker 1: the National TV it just went from five hundred million

2935
02:30:26,760 --> 02:30:28,520
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five to around two hundred and twenty

2936
02:30:28,520 --> 02:30:30,560
Speaker 1: five million dollars in twenty twenty six. So what was

2937
02:30:30,600 --> 02:30:34,640
Speaker 1: the nationals? So some red lights down down the road,

2938
02:30:34,800 --> 02:30:37,200
Speaker 1: and this kind of gets us into some of the not.

2939
02:30:37,320 --> 02:30:39,440
Speaker 2: So great things about the Dogs. Well, and I was

2940
02:30:39,480 --> 02:30:41,920
Speaker 2: just going to say, look, we're not here and we're

2941
02:30:41,920 --> 02:30:43,480
Speaker 2: going to do this. When we do these, we're not

2942
02:30:43,600 --> 02:30:47,160
Speaker 2: here to smear any teams. We're not here to say

2943
02:30:47,440 --> 02:30:51,040
Speaker 2: here's why you should hate Team X and whatever. But ever,

2944
02:30:51,320 --> 02:30:53,800
Speaker 2: just like every human being has good days and bad days,

2945
02:30:54,160 --> 02:30:57,520
Speaker 2: every dynasty has some low points, and there's a few

2946
02:30:57,600 --> 02:31:01,640
Speaker 2: low points, broke a lot of barriers. There's one barrier.

2947
02:31:01,959 --> 02:31:05,200
Speaker 2: Not only have they not broken, they've actually been a

2948
02:31:05,280 --> 02:31:12,000
Speaker 2: bit uh retro to be polite, to be fair or polite.

2949
02:31:12,879 --> 02:31:16,400
Speaker 2: Sports in general lags as opposed.

2950
02:31:16,080 --> 02:31:18,480
Speaker 1: To leaves when it comes to LGBT issues.

2951
02:31:18,720 --> 02:31:23,320
Speaker 2: Almost every other thing on diversity, sports leads for sports leads.

2952
02:31:23,360 --> 02:31:28,360
Speaker 2: And look at women in baseball executive positions. We've got referees, umpire,

2953
02:31:28,440 --> 02:31:32,040
Speaker 2: all these places and sports. The impact that's had in

2954
02:31:32,120 --> 02:31:36,640
Speaker 2: a society overall. Right, LGBT No, all of sports struggles

2955
02:31:36,680 --> 02:31:38,920
Speaker 2: with this. Yeah, and the Dodgers are no exceptions.

2956
02:31:39,240 --> 02:31:42,480
Speaker 1: Going back to Glenn Burt, player in the team in

2957
02:31:42,560 --> 02:31:45,440
Speaker 1: the nineteen serenties, credit with helping event the high five.

2958
02:31:45,480 --> 02:31:50,120
Speaker 1: By the way, another innovation we canker the first bak. Yeah,

2959
02:31:51,320 --> 02:31:56,800
Speaker 1: but also you know early gay player, though not openly gay.

2960
02:31:58,000 --> 02:32:01,080
Speaker 1: In fact, the Dodgers offered him seventy five thousand dollars

2961
02:32:01,120 --> 02:32:04,960
Speaker 1: bonus if he got married, so that they could adamantly

2962
02:32:05,040 --> 02:32:08,320
Speaker 1: say that he wasn't getting right. He refused the doctors

2963
02:32:08,320 --> 02:32:10,480
Speaker 1: traded him, you know, and he was deeply hurt by

2964
02:32:10,520 --> 02:32:12,880
Speaker 1: that and it ruined his care. Yeah, you know, he

2965
02:32:13,040 --> 02:32:16,200
Speaker 1: was never the same. The fact that Tim of the

2966
02:32:16,280 --> 02:32:20,840
Speaker 1: sorta refused a knowledge that his son diabate and that

2967
02:32:20,959 --> 02:32:21,320
Speaker 1: his son.

2968
02:32:21,280 --> 02:32:24,440
Speaker 2: Was gay, and he just painful articles I've ever read

2969
02:32:24,480 --> 02:32:27,160
Speaker 2: as a story of Tommy, I think squire, yeah, called

2970
02:32:27,160 --> 02:32:29,879
Speaker 2: Tangled Up and Blue, Tangled up in Blue, and it's look,

2971
02:32:29,920 --> 02:32:32,400
Speaker 2: it's a tortures, it's a father and son relationship that

2972
02:32:32,440 --> 02:32:34,680
Speaker 2: it's not that there's not about the Dodgers. But and

2973
02:32:35,560 --> 02:32:37,760
Speaker 2: you know, this is generational, this is cultural. There's a

2974
02:32:37,840 --> 02:32:40,520
Speaker 2: lot of things, this is religious. You know, we know

2975
02:32:40,800 --> 02:32:43,000
Speaker 2: all this stuff. But it's all part of the story,

2976
02:32:43,120 --> 02:32:44,879
Speaker 2: in it, in it, right, you know, because.

2977
02:32:44,760 --> 02:32:46,640
Speaker 1: And he loved his son. He did sound like he

2978
02:32:46,800 --> 02:32:49,640
Speaker 1: dishoned him, just the opposite. He just was in knowledge,

2979
02:32:49,760 --> 02:32:51,520
Speaker 1: He was in denial the reality of who is done,

2980
02:32:51,560 --> 02:32:51,960
Speaker 1: what right?

2981
02:32:52,200 --> 02:32:53,400
Speaker 2: He would not refuse to have it.

2982
02:32:54,959 --> 02:32:57,440
Speaker 1: In two thousand was an instant. Two women were kicked

2983
02:32:57,440 --> 02:33:00,920
Speaker 1: out of the ballpark after they kissed and another fan

2984
02:33:01,040 --> 02:33:05,039
Speaker 1: complaining and women were simarily escorted out of the ballpark.

2985
02:33:05,400 --> 02:33:08,280
Speaker 1: The Dodgs apologized they wound up give them five thousand

2986
02:33:08,400 --> 02:33:12,600
Speaker 1: tickets to LGBT groups. But again they were put on

2987
02:33:12,680 --> 02:33:15,400
Speaker 1: their heels, and you know their initial reaction was not

2988
02:33:15,520 --> 02:33:18,720
Speaker 1: the right reaction. There was a twenty twenty three Sisters

2989
02:33:18,760 --> 02:33:22,760
Speaker 1: of Perpetual Indulgence, Yes, searing trans people who addresses nuns

2990
02:33:23,120 --> 02:33:25,280
Speaker 1: were invited to an evented Dodger Stadium. There are some

2991
02:33:25,400 --> 02:33:28,280
Speaker 1: back class and they were disinvited. There was backlash about

2992
02:33:28,320 --> 02:33:31,600
Speaker 1: the back class. They were invited. Again. It was a mess.

2993
02:33:31,640 --> 02:33:35,840
Speaker 1: And again, either have a conviction or have awareness and

2994
02:33:37,480 --> 02:33:39,680
Speaker 1: avoid these temperrists. So let's see if they can kind

2995
02:33:39,720 --> 02:33:41,880
Speaker 1: of move to the forefront of these which is kind

2996
02:33:41,879 --> 02:33:44,840
Speaker 1: of the discrimination of our time. I mean, if we

2997
02:33:44,920 --> 02:33:47,880
Speaker 1: are literally having their identities taken away from them and

2998
02:33:48,040 --> 02:33:50,599
Speaker 1: in certain states, in the state of Kansas and can't

2999
02:33:50,680 --> 02:33:54,280
Speaker 1: be allowed to have driver's license right ds, you know,

3000
02:33:54,680 --> 02:33:57,200
Speaker 1: erasure basically, which you know in a state where you

3001
02:33:57,240 --> 02:34:00,840
Speaker 1: need an idea to vote, So you know, there's an

3002
02:34:00,879 --> 02:34:03,800
Speaker 1: opportunity to be had for some team in sports to

3003
02:34:03,840 --> 02:34:04,440
Speaker 1: take the lead on.

3004
02:34:04,520 --> 02:34:06,280
Speaker 2: And one of the things out you know, there's this

3005
02:34:07,120 --> 02:34:09,000
Speaker 2: here the debate and maybe some of you are going

3006
02:34:09,080 --> 02:34:11,200
Speaker 2: to say, hey, stick to sports, guys, and it's like, well,

3007
02:34:11,760 --> 02:34:13,920
Speaker 2: that's the whole point of the sports culture.

3008
02:34:14,040 --> 02:34:14,480
Speaker 1: Politics.

3009
02:34:14,520 --> 02:34:17,359
Speaker 2: It's all under woven. And by the way, we celebrate

3010
02:34:17,440 --> 02:34:21,080
Speaker 2: Jackie Robinson. Right, Well, that was a political decision that

3011
02:34:21,320 --> 02:34:24,760
Speaker 2: was made by branch Ricky. Yes, it was about an

3012
02:34:24,800 --> 02:34:27,480
Speaker 2: on the field product, but it was a political decision too.

3013
02:34:27,680 --> 02:34:31,160
Speaker 2: So and if it one would argue sports playing politics

3014
02:34:31,240 --> 02:34:35,080
Speaker 2: only helped society. So let's not pretend, you know, stick

3015
02:34:35,120 --> 02:34:38,680
Speaker 2: to sports. Well, sports is life, so yeah, I'll stick

3016
02:34:38,760 --> 02:34:39,480
Speaker 2: We'll stick to life.

3017
02:34:40,000 --> 02:34:43,279
Speaker 1: So we'll stick to sports here. We'll get into quintessential

3018
02:34:43,320 --> 02:34:44,080
Speaker 1: sports argument.

3019
02:34:44,240 --> 02:34:45,960
Speaker 2: We will in a minute, but we probably ought to. Look,

3020
02:34:46,080 --> 02:34:48,640
Speaker 2: there's a few other warts that that are. You can't

3021
02:34:48,680 --> 02:34:52,600
Speaker 2: tell the full Dodger story without the infamous Nightline incident

3022
02:34:52,720 --> 02:34:58,280
Speaker 2: without Campanis then GM where he had a here's here's

3023
02:34:58,320 --> 02:35:02,120
Speaker 2: a team that is essentially is to commemorate, commemorate Jackie Robinson,

3024
02:35:02,240 --> 02:35:05,280
Speaker 2: and he's on Nightline to commemorate. And the question was

3025
02:35:05,320 --> 02:35:08,600
Speaker 2: about the lack of black front office, black managers and

3026
02:35:08,640 --> 02:35:09,520
Speaker 2: black general managers.

3027
02:35:09,520 --> 02:35:13,400
Speaker 1: I believe and incredible phrase that Campanis said as he

3028
02:35:14,040 --> 02:35:18,920
Speaker 1: did disappearance alive from the field at the Astrodome is

3029
02:35:19,000 --> 02:35:21,920
Speaker 1: that black black the necessities, you know, and then he

3030
02:35:22,040 --> 02:35:25,760
Speaker 1: doubles down and says, black good swimmers, they're not buoyant.

3031
02:35:26,280 --> 02:35:29,240
Speaker 2: I mean, Copple literally couldn't believe what he heard and

3032
02:35:29,360 --> 02:35:32,120
Speaker 2: sort of he wasn't following his garbage, right, he was like,

3033
02:35:32,240 --> 02:35:33,840
Speaker 2: that was like, wait a minute, did you say what

3034
02:35:33,879 --> 02:35:34,400
Speaker 2: I think you said?

3035
02:35:34,959 --> 02:35:37,840
Speaker 1: Gives him the opportunity to clean get out, right, and

3036
02:35:38,080 --> 02:35:40,400
Speaker 1: then that's when he doubles down and talks about swimmers

3037
02:35:40,440 --> 02:35:43,680
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So well, I would say the

3038
02:35:43,720 --> 02:35:45,520
Speaker 1: Dodgers did what they had to do and they let

3039
02:35:45,600 --> 02:35:48,720
Speaker 1: him go, you know, immediately. Yeah, this lengthy tenure that

3040
02:35:48,840 --> 02:35:50,720
Speaker 1: dated back to the Jackie Robinson era, and that's the

3041
02:35:50,720 --> 02:35:53,760
Speaker 1: already he came from Brooklyn Campanis was a was a

3042
02:35:54,040 --> 02:35:54,640
Speaker 1: was an all time.

3043
02:35:54,760 --> 02:35:57,840
Speaker 2: Was basically a lifer, a Dodger lifer.

3044
02:35:58,120 --> 02:35:59,920
Speaker 1: So you know, that was a moment that kind of

3045
02:36:01,240 --> 02:36:03,640
Speaker 1: you know, but again, I think they more than made

3046
02:36:03,680 --> 02:36:05,640
Speaker 1: up for it though, when you know this is coming.

3047
02:36:05,760 --> 02:36:07,840
Speaker 1: It's just a few years after Fremando Mania, right, but

3048
02:36:08,720 --> 02:36:11,560
Speaker 1: no more mania is still the Contill Channel Park and

3049
02:36:11,840 --> 02:36:13,880
Speaker 1: again the leadership that they showed in those areas.

3050
02:36:15,000 --> 02:36:19,840
Speaker 2: So now we're going to end with the quintessential debates

3051
02:36:19,879 --> 02:36:23,200
Speaker 2: that everybody likes to have, and that is your various

3052
02:36:23,240 --> 02:36:28,279
Speaker 2: Mount rushmares, and I will I will confess I advocated

3053
02:36:28,800 --> 02:36:31,360
Speaker 2: that we should have multiple mount Rushmares that I could have.

3054
02:36:31,680 --> 02:36:36,000
Speaker 2: It's cheating, like, let's have the mount rushmore the Dodger pitchers,

3055
02:36:36,320 --> 02:36:38,440
Speaker 2: you know, because then I could have my my all

3056
02:36:38,520 --> 02:36:41,880
Speaker 2: time top four pitching staff. Let's have the top four

3057
02:36:42,000 --> 02:36:44,200
Speaker 2: And you're like, no, you just got to pick four.

3058
02:36:44,320 --> 02:36:45,720
Speaker 1: To quote John Tanny, we got to do it this

3059
02:36:45,800 --> 02:36:50,520
Speaker 1: way because it is hot. Kennedy's advocacy for going to

3060
02:36:50,600 --> 02:36:51,760
Speaker 1: the moon, because it is odd.

3061
02:36:52,280 --> 02:36:54,280
Speaker 2: So look, I think there's a lot. Look if so

3062
02:36:54,360 --> 02:36:56,760
Speaker 2: we only have four slots, we're going to do this hot.

3063
02:36:57,480 --> 02:37:00,200
Speaker 2: We have four slots. Now we will acknowledge that they're is.

3064
02:37:00,280 --> 02:37:00,760
Speaker 1: There's one.

3065
02:37:01,560 --> 02:37:04,240
Speaker 2: There's one no brainer, that's an automatic that you have

3066
02:37:04,280 --> 02:37:06,640
Speaker 2: to it's Jack Jack Robinson, right, So neither one of

3067
02:37:06,720 --> 02:37:07,360
Speaker 2: us argued about that.

3068
02:37:07,400 --> 02:37:08,040
Speaker 1: So you put him there.

3069
02:37:08,080 --> 02:37:10,360
Speaker 2: So you have three others agreement and other ones we do.

3070
02:37:11,080 --> 02:37:12,720
Speaker 2: Let's not give it away. Yeah, come on, let's not

3071
02:37:12,800 --> 02:37:16,240
Speaker 2: spoiler alert because there are multiples. So we have three slots,

3072
02:37:16,959 --> 02:37:19,080
Speaker 2: so you have plenty of candidates. We've talked about a

3073
02:37:19,120 --> 02:37:19,640
Speaker 2: bunch of them.

3074
02:37:20,080 --> 02:37:20,240
Speaker 1: You know.

3075
02:37:20,800 --> 02:37:25,160
Speaker 2: Look you've got Look, we got two pictures who won

3076
02:37:25,200 --> 02:37:28,760
Speaker 2: three ns Kershaw and Kofex, so they have to be considered.

3077
02:37:29,320 --> 02:37:33,120
Speaker 2: Ro Campanella won three m vps, all right, like you

3078
02:37:33,240 --> 02:37:37,800
Speaker 2: got to consider him show, hey already has two. You

3079
02:37:37,920 --> 02:37:40,680
Speaker 2: can't not put him in the pool of people we

3080
02:37:40,760 --> 02:37:42,400
Speaker 2: put in. You got to put in Fernando a little

3081
02:37:42,440 --> 02:37:46,320
Speaker 2: more longevity, right, that's right, you got Fernando in there. Hey, man,

3082
02:37:46,480 --> 02:37:48,960
Speaker 2: Steve Garvey was my icon, and there's still a bunch

3083
02:37:49,000 --> 02:37:51,080
Speaker 2: of us still pining for the day that Steve Garvey

3084
02:37:51,120 --> 02:37:55,160
Speaker 2: will get where the lead the Veterans Committee will put

3085
02:37:55,200 --> 02:37:59,360
Speaker 2: him in. Uh uh, and at some point maybe we'll see.

3086
02:37:59,480 --> 02:38:01,640
Speaker 2: I guess all depends if Mattingly ever gets in, then

3087
02:38:01,680 --> 02:38:05,920
Speaker 2: Garby better. Who else is in our in our group?

3088
02:38:06,040 --> 02:38:09,199
Speaker 2: You gotta you'd have Tommy less order, you'd have Vin Scully,

3089
02:38:09,680 --> 02:38:12,560
Speaker 2: you'd have maybe Walter Alston, who's I guess was he.

3090
02:38:12,600 --> 02:38:15,760
Speaker 1: Manager longer than Tommy? Did he end up four years

3091
02:38:15,959 --> 02:38:19,320
Speaker 1: right around the ceth not the same on that truck?

3092
02:38:20,080 --> 02:38:25,440
Speaker 2: So Don Rivesdale, That's why I wanted, That's why I

3093
02:38:25,520 --> 02:38:28,000
Speaker 2: wanted more than you know, one male Rushmore.

3094
02:38:28,040 --> 02:38:29,600
Speaker 1: We have witching round much more.

3095
02:38:29,600 --> 02:38:33,119
Speaker 2: We could have off Field, I mean branch Ricky, Right,

3096
02:38:33,680 --> 02:38:35,240
Speaker 2: that's somebody you'd have to consider.

3097
02:38:35,879 --> 02:38:38,240
Speaker 1: That's that's too easy, all right. So we had Jackie

3098
02:38:38,320 --> 02:38:40,200
Speaker 1: is one is hard? Jackie is one?

3099
02:38:40,400 --> 02:38:41,200
Speaker 2: Who else is to you?

3100
02:38:41,320 --> 02:38:44,640
Speaker 1: A no brainer? To me? It's no brand. That's Vin Scully.

3101
02:38:44,800 --> 02:38:46,520
Speaker 1: You know we talked about the impact. Is that the

3102
02:38:46,600 --> 02:38:49,280
Speaker 1: fact that he was foundational for generations of Dodgers, that

3103
02:38:49,400 --> 02:38:52,960
Speaker 1: he helped legitimize the Dodgers as they came to l A.

3104
02:38:53,280 --> 02:38:55,280
Speaker 2: I think the rule we we came up with it's

3105
02:38:55,280 --> 02:38:56,680
Speaker 2: sort of like if you say the name and the

3106
02:38:56,720 --> 02:38:58,480
Speaker 2: first thing you think of as Dodgers, they belong to

3107
02:38:58,520 --> 02:39:00,640
Speaker 2: the Mount rushbo right, jack Robinson?

3108
02:39:01,080 --> 02:39:02,760
Speaker 1: Or if you say Dodgers, one of the first people

3109
02:39:02,760 --> 02:39:03,800
Speaker 1: people you take of, Right.

3110
02:39:04,200 --> 02:39:07,560
Speaker 2: So Jackie and Vin probably are one two. You can't

3111
02:39:07,600 --> 02:39:10,960
Speaker 2: really you start there. I had to argue the next

3112
02:39:11,040 --> 02:39:13,640
Speaker 2: two or there we could This is where you would

3113
02:39:13,840 --> 02:39:15,640
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody's going to debate us on Jackie

3114
02:39:15,720 --> 02:39:20,400
Speaker 2: r Ben. Now you've got I know where I'd go next.

3115
02:39:21,560 --> 02:39:24,959
Speaker 2: You got I would go Kofax next. But I'm mindful

3116
02:39:25,080 --> 02:39:27,640
Speaker 2: that it is a little more meaningful to Jewish Americans,

3117
02:39:27,840 --> 02:39:31,119
Speaker 2: So I accept that premise, and it's a short career,

3118
02:39:31,959 --> 02:39:35,560
Speaker 2: it's all of those things. But he is I mean,

3119
02:39:36,160 --> 02:39:38,240
Speaker 2: I think when you say the word Sandy Kofax, there's

3120
02:39:38,280 --> 02:39:39,160
Speaker 2: only one team you think of.

3121
02:39:39,800 --> 02:39:42,880
Speaker 1: I'm actually with you on this, just because you know,

3122
02:39:43,000 --> 02:39:45,120
Speaker 1: help make the Dodgers what they were in the sixties.

3123
02:39:48,520 --> 02:39:51,360
Speaker 1: To me, it's more people that are older than me.

3124
02:39:51,520 --> 02:39:54,720
Speaker 1: The way they look at Kofax. I honor and respect

3125
02:39:54,959 --> 02:39:58,760
Speaker 1: their reverence for him, So therefore I revere him. And

3126
02:39:59,480 --> 02:40:01,920
Speaker 1: I've seen the reaction to him. If you had been

3127
02:40:01,959 --> 02:40:06,360
Speaker 1: an LA sports writer, do you think you'd feel this? No?

3128
02:40:07,240 --> 02:40:14,640
Speaker 2: Okay no, but see seeing what he meant, I will

3129
02:40:14,680 --> 02:40:17,280
Speaker 2: say that I'm gonna argue with myself here, right the

3130
02:40:17,440 --> 02:40:21,600
Speaker 2: argument against is well, that's not just long enough. But

3131
02:40:21,640 --> 02:40:24,920
Speaker 2: I think about my eighteen year old son. I have

3132
02:40:25,040 --> 02:40:26,920
Speaker 2: to explain who co faxes. I don't have to explain

3133
02:40:26,920 --> 02:40:29,560
Speaker 2: your Jackie is, and I even don't have to explain who,

3134
02:40:31,520 --> 02:40:33,120
Speaker 2: but I actually do have to tell him the story I.

3135
02:40:33,120 --> 02:40:33,640
Speaker 1: Got to tell him.

3136
02:40:33,640 --> 02:40:36,120
Speaker 2: Oh, there's not a lot of highlights of Kofax, right,

3137
02:40:36,200 --> 02:40:37,960
Speaker 2: there's less TV, there's less of everything.

3138
02:40:38,040 --> 02:40:41,080
Speaker 1: But the beauty of this exercise is your amount, right,

3139
02:40:41,160 --> 02:40:47,480
Speaker 1: more so you get to competer that are the most dodgerrific. Yes, right,

3140
02:40:48,080 --> 02:40:51,600
Speaker 1: And so our first three were actually in alignment on Yeah,

3141
02:40:51,640 --> 02:40:55,320
Speaker 1: we've spoiler alert. We we don't have the same before

3142
02:40:56,520 --> 02:41:01,840
Speaker 1: my fourth the time of the story. Yeah, because he

3143
02:41:02,360 --> 02:41:05,760
Speaker 1: just helped make you know, Dodger blue. It was just

3144
02:41:05,840 --> 02:41:08,160
Speaker 1: such an advocate for the Dodgers and for baseball. And

3145
02:41:08,400 --> 02:41:11,039
Speaker 1: he's the one that used the expression, I believe Dodger blue,

3146
02:41:11,040 --> 02:41:14,680
Speaker 1: the blue Dodger blue. Wasn't that the big Dodgers, you know,

3147
02:41:15,000 --> 02:41:17,400
Speaker 1: all those things like he just helped the way he

3148
02:41:17,560 --> 02:41:21,440
Speaker 1: talked about the Dodgers made them feel like much bigger.

3149
02:41:21,480 --> 02:41:24,800
Speaker 1: They weren't just a sports brandch right, and we know

3150
02:41:25,000 --> 02:41:27,120
Speaker 1: they mean more than sports. And we talked about how

3151
02:41:27,160 --> 02:41:30,040
Speaker 1: the Lakers that kind of surpassed them. Well, these last

3152
02:41:30,040 --> 02:41:32,440
Speaker 1: few years, the Dodgers have their mad after that, they

3153
02:41:32,520 --> 02:41:34,640
Speaker 1: are Los Angeles team. They were there before the Lakers.

3154
02:41:35,760 --> 02:41:37,320
Speaker 1: They are the foundational team.

3155
02:41:37,600 --> 02:41:40,080
Speaker 2: Now that you've Angelinos can see him on TV again,

3156
02:41:40,400 --> 02:41:43,560
Speaker 2: that helps, right, not being on TV for that for

3157
02:41:43,680 --> 02:41:45,920
Speaker 2: that eight what was it about three or four year period.

3158
02:41:45,680 --> 02:41:48,320
Speaker 1: There quite that long. That was another knock against the

3159
02:41:48,440 --> 02:41:52,040
Speaker 1: Dodgers when they went to this new cable or regional

3160
02:41:52,040 --> 02:41:54,440
Speaker 1: sports network and it wasn't available. He couldn't get on DirecTV,

3161
02:41:54,520 --> 02:41:56,400
Speaker 1: you couldn't get on some of the biggest cable providers

3162
02:41:56,440 --> 02:41:56,800
Speaker 1: in LA.

3163
02:41:56,879 --> 02:41:59,199
Speaker 2: And that was like the like I said, my buddies

3164
02:41:59,200 --> 02:42:02,080
Speaker 2: woul buying VP in order to watch it an extra

3165
02:42:02,240 --> 02:42:02,880
Speaker 2: MLB extra?

3166
02:42:03,040 --> 02:42:06,520
Speaker 1: So what would be counter argument against Tommy? So the

3167
02:42:06,640 --> 02:42:09,200
Speaker 1: counter against Tommy for me would be maybe argument for

3168
02:42:09,360 --> 02:42:11,920
Speaker 1: someone else, Well, it's more of a four. And why

3169
02:42:11,959 --> 02:42:16,240
Speaker 1: wouldn't put Tommy is actually has to do with the

3170
02:42:16,280 --> 02:42:18,120
Speaker 1: guy I put in fourth, which is, you.

3171
02:42:18,160 --> 02:42:22,720
Speaker 2: Know, Tommy's managing decisions when it came to pictures weren't

3172
02:42:22,760 --> 02:42:26,520
Speaker 2: always the greatest. And did he cost pictures? Their careers?

3173
02:42:26,640 --> 02:42:28,920
Speaker 2: Did some of their careers get cut short? And my

3174
02:42:29,000 --> 02:42:31,680
Speaker 2: biggest one is Fernando. Now, for me, I put Fernando

3175
02:42:31,720 --> 02:42:35,240
Speaker 2: in the Mount Rushmore And that's why it really bothers

3176
02:42:35,280 --> 02:42:36,560
Speaker 2: me he's not in the Hall of Fame because here

3177
02:42:36,640 --> 02:42:38,840
Speaker 2: you have the Dodgers who have plenty of Hall of famers,

3178
02:42:39,840 --> 02:42:43,320
Speaker 2: and it's hard to say, well, the most iconic people,

3179
02:42:43,360 --> 02:42:44,680
Speaker 2: how come one of them's on the Hall of Fame.

3180
02:42:46,000 --> 02:42:49,600
Speaker 2: That's how important I think Fernando is now the only

3181
02:42:49,680 --> 02:42:52,800
Speaker 2: thing I will put on both of us, is you covered.

3182
02:42:52,920 --> 02:42:55,200
Speaker 2: You know, your your formative years for Tommy, my formative

3183
02:42:55,280 --> 02:42:59,200
Speaker 2: years for Fernando, like you know, are people going to

3184
02:42:59,200 --> 02:42:59,640
Speaker 2: feel this way?

3185
02:42:59,680 --> 02:43:00,560
Speaker 1: Fernanda is another one.

3186
02:43:01,160 --> 02:43:03,920
Speaker 2: Hard to explain to my son, hard to explain to

3187
02:43:04,000 --> 02:43:06,240
Speaker 2: the eight you know, the twenty first century Dodger fan,

3188
02:43:06,320 --> 02:43:08,440
Speaker 2: how important and how iconic he was.

3189
02:43:10,280 --> 02:43:10,840
Speaker 1: So that would be.

3190
02:43:10,959 --> 02:43:14,960
Speaker 2: But I would Fernando for me because he healed a

3191
02:43:15,080 --> 02:43:18,080
Speaker 2: big part of the city. And I think the value

3192
02:43:18,160 --> 02:43:22,959
Speaker 2: to the Dodgers as being Latin America's team right first.

3193
02:43:22,920 --> 02:43:26,960
Speaker 1: You know, that's that's a big deal. I mean, you

3194
02:43:26,959 --> 02:43:30,120
Speaker 1: can make the argument, for example, Dave Roberts is one

3195
02:43:30,160 --> 02:43:34,680
Speaker 1: more world series of the Dodgers, that's the manager, right So,

3196
02:43:35,080 --> 02:43:39,039
Speaker 1: but it speaks to I think of when I think

3197
02:43:39,080 --> 02:43:41,279
Speaker 1: of Dodger manager, I'm going to think of Tommy.

3198
02:43:42,040 --> 02:43:45,680
Speaker 2: Over over there, just just but the third City.

3199
02:43:45,800 --> 02:43:47,840
Speaker 1: Here's what I when I think of a manager of

3200
02:43:47,879 --> 02:43:50,279
Speaker 1: the Dodgers, because he was the manager of the Dodgers

3201
02:43:50,440 --> 02:43:53,120
Speaker 1: from before I started watching them, up until nineteen ninety six.

3202
02:43:53,240 --> 02:43:55,760
Speaker 2: When when the when the AI versions of us do

3203
02:43:55,920 --> 02:43:57,640
Speaker 2: this show in fifty years and go back and do

3204
02:43:57,720 --> 02:44:02,160
Speaker 2: the Dodgers again. The way we've changed managing, and the

3205
02:44:02,280 --> 02:44:06,640
Speaker 2: way that if they don't that they aren't the lead

3206
02:44:06,720 --> 02:44:07,840
Speaker 2: personality of the team.

3207
02:44:07,720 --> 02:44:09,720
Speaker 1: Anymore dictated by the bombers.

3208
02:44:10,320 --> 02:44:14,080
Speaker 2: We will probably have a hard time explaining how important

3209
02:44:14,120 --> 02:44:17,160
Speaker 2: managers were in the twentieth century. They're just less They're

3210
02:44:17,240 --> 02:44:18,640
Speaker 2: less important than the twenty per century.

3211
02:44:18,680 --> 02:44:21,440
Speaker 1: Even though you can make the case that Dave Roberts

3212
02:44:21,440 --> 02:44:24,440
Speaker 1: a better manager than time of Disorda certainly hasn't blown

3213
02:44:24,480 --> 02:44:29,600
Speaker 1: through picture's arys. He's not a bigger personality than tom

3214
02:44:29,959 --> 02:44:31,720
Speaker 1: I mean that that's part of what this is about,

3215
02:44:31,800 --> 02:44:33,720
Speaker 1: is the fact that Tommy just had this, you know,

3216
02:44:35,080 --> 02:44:40,680
Speaker 1: oversized personality that just made the Dodgers, made the Dodgers

3217
02:44:40,680 --> 02:44:42,400
Speaker 1: seem bigger than you know, he was larger than life

3218
02:44:42,400 --> 02:44:45,120
Speaker 1: figure and as a result, the Dodgers were a larger

3219
02:44:45,200 --> 02:44:47,440
Speaker 1: than life franchise in part because of him.

3220
02:44:47,840 --> 02:44:51,320
Speaker 2: And you know, in many ways they weren't as successful

3221
02:44:51,440 --> 02:44:54,320
Speaker 2: as as they should have been in his era, but

3222
02:44:54,480 --> 02:44:56,640
Speaker 2: he made them seem bigger because I.

3223
02:44:56,640 --> 02:44:58,840
Speaker 1: Mean we talked earlier. I put them on the same

3224
02:44:58,920 --> 02:45:01,760
Speaker 1: plane as the the Big Red Machine and all those

3225
02:45:01,840 --> 02:45:03,680
Speaker 1: great they did with these teams. They know, they didn't

3226
02:45:03,680 --> 02:45:06,560
Speaker 1: win a World Series in a decade, and that's partly

3227
02:45:06,680 --> 02:45:07,680
Speaker 1: Tommy salesmanship.

3228
02:45:08,280 --> 02:45:10,440
Speaker 2: That's that's a great the great way.

3229
02:45:10,320 --> 02:45:12,280
Speaker 1: To put it. But you know the legacy of Fernando,

3230
02:45:12,440 --> 02:45:14,000
Speaker 1: I mean, what hurts him? He only won one hundred

3231
02:45:14,000 --> 02:45:16,080
Speaker 1: and seventy three games. Yeah, you know, and baseball is

3232
02:45:16,160 --> 02:45:20,520
Speaker 1: so numbers oriented. You know, we've talked off air about

3233
02:45:20,560 --> 02:45:22,920
Speaker 1: now there's a space in the Basketball Hall of Fame

3234
02:45:22,959 --> 02:45:25,080
Speaker 1: for Yao Ming because of what he meant, you know,

3235
02:45:25,200 --> 02:45:29,360
Speaker 1: for opening the NBA, for THEA and you know what

3236
02:45:29,520 --> 02:45:30,600
Speaker 1: he's meant, you know.

3237
02:45:30,640 --> 02:45:34,080
Speaker 2: For basketball in Asia. So baseball doesn't look at.

3238
02:45:34,040 --> 02:45:34,440
Speaker 1: It that way.

3239
02:45:36,720 --> 02:45:39,960
Speaker 2: So that's our case, the Los Angeles Dodgers, who you

3240
02:45:40,080 --> 02:45:43,480
Speaker 2: got that, that's our that's our Mount Rushmore. This is

3241
02:45:43,560 --> 02:45:45,880
Speaker 2: now a dynasty, and I really think the last twenty

3242
02:45:46,000 --> 02:45:48,640
Speaker 2: the last ten years has cemented them because they have

3243
02:45:48,760 --> 02:45:52,360
Speaker 2: finally done something that they arguably spent the entire twentieth

3244
02:45:52,400 --> 02:45:53,360
Speaker 2: century trying to do.

3245
02:45:53,440 --> 02:45:57,880
Speaker 1: And never got there. They caught the Yankees. It's amazing

3246
02:45:57,920 --> 02:46:01,160
Speaker 1: when you travel now around the world and this is

3247
02:46:01,560 --> 02:46:02,720
Speaker 1: a show hate phenomeni.

3248
02:46:03,840 --> 02:46:06,800
Speaker 2: You see that La cap now more than you see

3249
02:46:06,840 --> 02:46:07,680
Speaker 2: the NY Cap.

3250
02:46:07,560 --> 02:46:13,119
Speaker 1: Harris in Vancouver to Australia, that La Dodger.

3251
02:46:12,920 --> 02:46:15,280
Speaker 2: And it used to be the NY Cap. Yes, and

3252
02:46:15,400 --> 02:46:17,920
Speaker 2: now you see the La Cap. It's fascinating.

3253
02:46:18,480 --> 02:46:19,640
Speaker 1: That's end of our episode one.

3254
02:46:19,760 --> 02:46:23,240
Speaker 2: We are the next episode and the next dynasty where

3255
02:46:23,240 --> 02:46:24,680
Speaker 2: you're going to tackle is going to be in the

3256
02:46:24,840 --> 02:46:28,760
Speaker 2: NFL and it is Pittsburgh Stealer. I'm looking forward to

3257
02:46:28,840 --> 02:46:32,600
Speaker 2: this dymnastic that'll be coming up on our next episode.

3258
02:46:33,120 --> 02:46:35,360
Speaker 2: Thanks for giving us a chance here in episode one,

3259
02:46:35,440 --> 02:46:39,720
Speaker 2: we will have an icon of the Dodgers helping to

3260
02:46:40,400 --> 02:46:42,120
Speaker 2: talk a little bit more and unpack some of these

3261
02:46:42,160 --> 02:46:45,240
Speaker 2: stories for you. But when we see you next time

3262
02:46:45,280 --> 02:46:47,640
Speaker 2: with a big deep dive, it'll be about the Pittsburgh Steelers,